The Ringer NBA Show - What Is Going on With Kawhi Leonard and the Spurs? | Group Chat (Ep. 216)

Episode Date: February 22, 2018

The Ringer's Chris Ryan and Justin Verrier are joined by Danny Chau and Paolo Uggetti to briefly address the allegations surrounding the Dallas Mavericks (2:20) before they discuss Kawhi Leonard's current status, his relationship with the Spurs, and his longevity with the team (4:25). Then they examine Adam Silver's comments about exploring a radically different kind of NBA playoffs (23:45). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of The Ringer MBA show is brought to you by Belvedere Vodka, produced in one of the world's longest running distilleries. Belvedere vodka is the world's finest all-natural vodka, crafted by a collective of master distillers. Belvedere is made with non-GMO, Polish rye, pure water, no additives, Justin. Recognized for quality, Belvedere was named the ISC World Vodka producer of the year in 2015, 16, and 17. That's like a warrior's run. for Belvedere. Shout out to you guys. Enjoy a delicious cocktail with Belvedere vodka today and remember to always drink responsibly. Basketball is very good. The Raptors are the best team in the east. Phil Jackson actually

saved the Knicks. Mark L. Fultz will be an all-star next year. Basketball is very good. Hello. And welcome to the Ringer NBA show. It's group chat. Palaugetti. What's up? Justin Verrier. Hello. Danny Chow. Morning. No tournaments for Danny. I just heard about this tournament about two minutes ago, and I'm kind of out on it. I'm disturbed that you just learned about the tournament, considering who you sit with in an office all day long. I thought you would have a take when I brought it up to you already, which I guess you do.

Guys, welcome to group chat. Before we get started, I just want to tell you a little bit about some things happening on the ringer this week. We have a lot of incredible stuff, but especially I want you to check out the M.J. LeBron package that we have going for all you NBA heads. you may have heard these two young whippersnappers. We're hoping that they can reach their potential someday. No, they're the goats. They are Michael Jordan and LeBron James, and we have a series of articles that kind of look at them

as mirror images of one another and as comparisons as LeBron chasing Jordan, what Jordan meant to the culture, what LeBron means to the culture. A lot of different ways of looking at two of the greatest athletes most of us have ever seen. So check those articles out. Also, obviously, you can't go wrong with any of the ring or podcast network shows,

but I want to recommend draft class with Danny Chow, John Charks, and Kevin O'Connor. I can already feel the big boards rising in the distance. It's almost draft time, believe it or not. So to get all the prospect information that you need, tune in to Danny, Kevin, and John every Friday, right? Okay. Okay, guys, the reason why I'm a little bit muted right now

is because we've got to talk about this Dallas Mavericks situation. It's obviously the biggest story coming out of the All-Star weekend. And we don't really want to spend a lot of time on it because I think in something like this, the best thing for our listeners to do is simply read the reporting. And John Worth-Hyman, Jessica Luther did an incredible job with this piece in Sports Illustrated.

And I highly recommend that everybody just check it out. What it basically details is a culture that permitted a CEO to apparently serially sexually harass other employees and a beat writer who was arrested for a domestic violence charge and pled guilty, but was allowed to continue. working for the Mavericks. Like I said, there's not really a lot to add here. There's no connections to be made to the Mavericks as a basketball entity.

This is something that Mark Cuban's going to have to handle. And he's apparently doing so by bringing in outside investigations. Yesterday, Dirk Nowitzky talked about how ashamed he was of the team and the franchise. That's something like this could happen. Carlisle, Rick Carlisle said much the same thing. Do you guys have anything to add? There's not really a lot to add. I think Michael Bowman had a very, very good piece on Cuban and how he's sort of positioned himself as a figurehead in the league and what that means to him as he kind of handles this controversy.

But do you have anything else to add? Yeah, I would just say that I think as the reporting has gone on by some outlets since like just the wine scene investigation, it's just important to, I guess, realize that this isn't just an entertainment industry issue. It's a workplace issue. Yeah. And it's going to affect all sorts of workplaces. And I think just personally, I think I had wondered, when this is going to hit sports, just considering that it is a workplace first and foremost,

but also just the kind of Friday locker room nature of it all. And so I do wonder if this is like the first of a few to come, those type of stories. Not to just wildly speculate, but you know, you hear things in sports. Sure. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how NBA franchise, how NFL and MLB franchises handle these kinds of investigations if they're forced to face them. Okay, let's get to some other NBA news that's been kind of interesting for us this week. And I think this is a little bit of like a chicken or the egg thing where, you know, over the last couple years, we've seen this sort of unprecedented star player movement. You could say it started with LeBron, but I think it's really kicked up over the last few seasons with Durant.

And this idea that any given NBA superstar is only really three or four years, like that only really has three or four years in any one given city, unless like they're literally. really playing in a dynasty and even that doesn't necessarily guarantee that they are going to be moving. I was watching some of the Kobe and Shaq interview from the All-Star weekend and it was so funny to revisit the breakup of that and how seismic that felt at the time. But even that, it was like, I think that there was a calculated like Shaq is kind of, when it goes bad for Shaq, it's going to go pretty fast and it's time to focus on Kobe. But the big story this week was quite. So, so, you know, Yesterday afternoon, Greg Popovich did a media availability.

I wouldn't even call it a press conference. It was just before a team practice. Yeah, he was like had the whistle around his neck. He was just kind of, he was kind of gas, you could tell. But I don't know. Would he have said, he basically came out and said that he would be surprised of Kauai Lenter played this year. Kauai's been nursing this right quad injury for a long time. He came back briefly.

Nine games. Nine games? Nine games. That's all we got of Kauai the season. And when was that? It was earlier. It was January? Around December?

Yeah, December January. I think it was around January. Okay. And it was like, he looked pretty good. He looked a little out of shape. He didn't look like, oh, the two-way octopus that could just destroy the world. But he was also like making like, you know, brief instances in which you saw that kind of dynamic defensive presence, you know, chase down blocks and like blocking guys from the perimeter. It was still there, but it was just wasn't the same Kauai that we saw last year.

It was like an MVP guy. And even if you look at the time, going back at the game log, and he played basically from the middle of December to like the start of January, but he never played more than two games like straight. You know what I'm saying? Like he had intermittent like inactive. Yeah, exactly. So it was clear that like wasn't fully all there yet.

Yeah. So here's the thing about this Popovich press conferences. It was not, granted, this is he's never going to be like remaking terms of endearment. But I did not find it to be the softest touch. No. It was more a matter of we have to get ready to play, go into the playoffs with the guys that we have. and I got to know what I've got.

And, you know, in subsequent reports by, you know, by Wojj, among others, there has been, this is a real read-between-the-line story because there is obviously a suggestion that Kauai has been medically clear to play. So this is up to Kauai as far as whether or not he's ready or willing to play. And then that this is all part of a, I think Woji is the word fraying, you know, a strain on the relationship. between the Spurs and Leonard. So Justin, much ado about nothing? This is just a guy with an injury who's taking a little while longer to come back than we thought, or does this speak to a larger issue between Kauai and San Antonio?

Yeah, I thought it was interesting that the fact that it was up to Kauai came from the Wode report, which seemed to come from Kauai's sort of side of things. And Wode wrote the original, is there something wrong between Kauai and the Spurs piece a couple months ago, right? Right. And so it wasn't... Right. And you would expect that to more come from the coach side of thing that like, listen, this guy can come back whenever he wants, you know, he can, it's really up to him. But it was almost,

it seemed like an attempt to say that this is like to empower Kauai, that everything is up to him. And I think that sort of dynamic is something that we talked about in the past is just so unique for the spurs. They've never had a guy like this just kick up dust. And I think it just speaks to Kauai being different for that team. also just like the superstars in today's day and age. Like these issues pop up. Even as you mentioned, the Spurs are kind of a model franchise. It's doing really well that has a chance to win a finals,

even when they don't have a second or third superstar. Kauai is normal. Duncan wasn't. And that's, I think, that's a great point. We have to kind of understand is that we establish, we have this measuring stick that we use when we talk about San Antonio and the selflessness of the players.

But we're really talking about three or four guys. We're talking about David, Robinson, Tim Duncan, Manu Genobley, and Tony Parker to some extent. And, you know, these guys who have just are Spurs lifers who at some point in their career can't start coming off the bench or, you know, played through injuries. I mean, by all accounts, Duncan basically was limping through the last six years of his career. And you've got Kauai. He was like, that's not me. You know what I mean? Maybe he's just like, I'm not interested in ripping a quad muscle because I don't think it's right yet. And then when I could opt out in 2019 or if I just want to get my.

my 220 million. I don't know. I think that maybe Kauai is normal and the other experiences we have with San Antonio or with guys who are uncommonly dedicated to this concept of the franchise. I kind of found it interesting that he dropped that Jordan commercial where, you know, he was out, you know, playing the whole social media game and kind of changing the persona that he'd had for such a long time while he was injured. Yes.

and what that says about where and that's kind of where I see the whole you know, frayed relationship with the Spurs maybe taking hold. Like it kind of signals to that. Obviously, we don't know anything about that actual internal internally, but yeah, it was just a weird shift for a guy

who was always just kind of very much in the discussion for MVP, but also on the periphery in terms of the personality. Yeah, because the Spurs commercials usually are those HEB ones that are just really whimsical and funny. And Kauai killed that too. It was amazing. He was amazing. And this is similar in tone, but clearly a little bit on a higher level when Jordan is one of the most recognizable brands in the entire sport.

I think Kevin and Verno talked about this on Tuesday, which is like we expect things to be more low-key because it's the Spurs. So we kind of like, oh, like they're going to figure it out or whatever. But this clearly feels like a breakoff from that sense on multiple levels. you know, the commercial level, but also just like the whole, this is how superstars are in our days level. And it's clear, Kauai wants to,

or at least people around Kauai, wanted him to take that next step through being like a notable superstar, not just on the court, but off the court, you know? And I think the thing that I was thinking about is just like, with Kauai, like,

there is, you said earlier, like he was, he's the guy who were kind of talking about this week, but I think it kind of started with Anthony Davis too, which some of the comments he had and being like, you wonder if you're,

you're a superstar on that same path. He talked about KG and how he was, he bolted to the box. He was created that he had less earlier. Yeah. Tying those things is kind of interesting to me because it makes me feel like these guys are so aware of how things work nowadays with superstars that they're almost like maybe going to try to do them earlier than usual because it's going to be beneficial for

them. It's just like there's a lot of different factors that I think. And on the team side, right? Yeah. When you're thinking about, I mean, the spurs are as creative and of self-sustaining as any team out there in terms of their talent pool. but on the team side

this is the new normal for teams where superstars that you think you essentially have locked up are also at the height of their trade value and that's the thing with Anthony Davis right is like even if they it's nice that Anthony Davis thinks that with Boogie healthy that the Pelicans

were finals contenders finals contenders which is like I mean I appreciate his his his like belief in their in their program right and I don't think that that's true, but I think that they were really scary. But there's like a 50-50, if not worst chance that Boogie is never going to be the same.

You know, and Anthony Davis is also, he's an injury prone guy. And so to have him kind of playing what I guess would be the sort of beginning or mid of his prime right now in a relatively empty gym outside of, on the outside looking at the playoff race, when he probably could be the thing that brings Boston multiple titles if he were to go there or if he goes in any number of places, just not Golden State, please. Actually, not Boston either. Sure. Stay in New Orleans.

This is what we're going to be dealing with because these contracts are very, they're only paper now. Right. I think it's an interesting contrast to Kauai, as Paula was kind of saying, just because it feels like Kauai or Kauai's people are kind of pulling at the strings behind the scenes in order to orchestrate something, or at the very least, get their message across in a very, like, specific way. We were talking about this just yesterday. I think Anthony Davis was just completely

honest. Yeah. And his response just about saying like the comparison to KG. And I think that's almost worst. It's almost like I think about the whole Jacob Reese pounding the rock thing that the spurs, believe it or not, are the ones that everyone talks about. It's like a quote on their locker room. And just the fact that it's like slowly building over time, that's what I think if you look at the entire scope of these stories about Anthony Davis, we're getting. So slowly but surely he's starting to come around to the thinking it's like I'm doing everything I can but these guys they can't help me out and like oh man it would have been great with boogie but now man now boogie's out like what am I going to do you're leaving me with no option right and what it took to get boogie

and what it'll take to keep boogie essentially makes it so that we are we can't be competitive in a real way unless we really absolutely strike gold on some mid-round draft pick or something like that here's the thing about the spurs we look at them they're kind of like the packers right they have their they're a couple superstars that they've built with over the years they don't get too nutty and free agency other than like lamarcus was sort of the outlier there and in a weird way lamarcus was almost a precursor for what's happening with kawai because lamarcus too was like i don't know if this is the right place for me and pop and he were singing kumbaya this this in the beginning of the season about how they had fixed their relationship um what do you think would i without any inside

knowledge do you think that this is something that if you're kawai leonard and pop's like the train's leaving without you? Do you think that we're going to see Kauai on the bench during the playoffs? Do you think he's going to try and get back there? Was this a motivating tactic? What do you think is going to happen going forward? I think he'll be on the bench. I think the weird thing for me is I understand all of Davis's comments. For me, the spurs were right there in the Western Conference finals last year. If the Kauai injury didn't happen, if Zaza didn't, you know, wreck his his foot or whatever happened. They would have been right there.

They had that game, they had game one at least. And I feel like when you have that game and you have that game so handle, they would have won by over 20. I feel like they would have had a chance. And if the Spurs just kind of hold everything together and wait things out, I think they could make the finals again. It's like, I don't.

Even with this team. Yeah. And do you think that with the, this could be a summer of a lot of turnover for the spurs. They have a bunch of guys, what is it, green, Bertons. All their middlemen guys, isn't that? Yeah, and Kyle Anderson, I think, is an RFA. Like, a bunch of guys who were kind of on the, could leave.

On one hand, that clears a lot of cap space. They could be an attractive destination for some people, although San Antonio is not typically regarded as a destination. On the other hand, they kind of have Lamarcas Aldridge, Kauai Leonard, and the coach of the Olympic team. And probably the most respected coach in the NBA pound for pound. Yeah, it almost speaks to just like the shortened lifespan of just like guys going to certain teams that I think you can trace back to LeBron. The fact that with the heat and now the calves, it's almost like four years and out, I think it might just accelerate when guys want to go other places, when guys get frustrated with their current situations.

And when we talk about a lot with LeBron, it's just about player agency and just like controlling your. your own destiny and just feels like guys are just looking at their situations they want to win immediately they see that their careers are like what 12 years tops if you're a superstar and two or three of them in the beginning are getting used to the league and three or four of them at the end or kind of trying to keep stay useful so you basically have like this eight year unless you're lebron this eight year sort of significant window to win titles and if you're kawai and you say wow we don't have superstars on this team like i don't think we could actually win a title i could see why he is frustrated and potentially would want to go elsewhere.

Having said that, I think it's completely just just not right. I think that they're better position than any team. And as you mentioned, they could just clear the deck. Also, the Spurs did win the title. Like the Spurs won the title with Kauai Leonard as the finals MVP and they were pretty close

to another one without Ray Allen. You know, it's like this is a team that like dismantled the heat. I mean, they didn't have, I mean, Kauai was just emerging then. So they, if any team can win without the multiple superstars, stars, it's the Spurs. And you look at the rosters over their, I don't know, 15 years.

Most of them are bad. Yeah. Fabricio Oberto was a huge, played a huge role in at least four of the team. All the guys left the Spurs and you're just like, that dude used to play in like the Western Conference Finals. Trin. Ford's Splitter. Brits and like, yes.

Oh my gosh. That's why I kind of wonder, like, the first thought for me when I heard about these in these three, I was like, okay, so how much of the Warriors factoring this? Like, is Kauai saying like, oh, we have no shot or whatever? but like you're the spurs, right? You know, so it's like we talked about how good they are, even though the rosters have looked at it. So the thing I wonder is like,

it kind of feels like more of a cultural thing than a basketball thing. Because you talked about Lamarcus Aldrich and his problem was like, oh, I don't fit on the core or like, I'm not, it's not working with pop and pop, but the fact that this is with Kauai, like the number one star on their team,

this feels more like something else. I don't think it could be possibly basketball related because they essentially went away from some of the principles that won them, the title a few years ago to play a much more ISO-heavy Kauai on the wing, clear out and get into right spaces style of offense. Not particularly aesthetically pleasing one, honestly.

I mean, like, they move the ball better than almost any team, but I think that it was still pretty ISO-heavy when it was with Kauai, especially last season. The one last thing I wanted to consider with this whole story is, isn't it kind of an interesting sort of sub-narrative of the season about the different disagreements big-time players have been having or could be big-time players have been having with medical departments because obviously the spurs feel like Kauai's healthy enough to play.

Somebody thought Isaiah Thomas was ready to play in Cleveland, whether it was Isaiah Thomas who was like, I need to put numbers up to get a contract or whether it was Cleveland saying we need to figure out whether or not we can run a pick and roll with you in LeBron before we get to the playoffs. And to some extent, the fault story, you know, where you've got multiple differing messages coming out

of the front office coaching staff and players can't. Yeah, and even the DeMarcus cousin injury, apparently, like Tom Haversstrow had this story right after the fact saying that a lot of the minutes he was playing at such a high pace potentially contributed to that. And I'd heard that like the coaching staff in particular bristled about that. And then all of a sudden a few days later, they came out and said, hey, by the way, we're actually going to play Anthony Davis, only 36 minutes going forward. Yeah. So there's a lot of this going on. I think it just we have so much information and it's budding up against like what the way people have always done things. It's very similar to the way the analytics movement right on the eve of Sloan,

the Sloan Conference this weekend. They are always talking about how we have so much accessible information now. It's about messaging it properly to the context. And it's actually figuring out what is useful. That too. They have so much. That's why you guys aren't on the level where it's like John Wall got the knee surgery now so we can be fresh for the playoffs.

You know what? We are going to be talking about this more again if the T-wolves get blasted in the first round of the playoffs. if they look gassed and some team runs all over the Timberwolves in the first round. I mean, the Thunder can't do that because the Thunder are playing their guys, like almost as much as Tibbs plays his guys. But this idea, you know, where it's like save guys, the most important part of the season of the playoffs, we're going to see that really put to the test when we get to the playoffs.

All right, we're going to take a quick break to hear from our sponsors and we're going to come back and talk about maybe how the playoffs could look different in the years to come. Today's episode of the Ringer NBA show is brought to you by ZipRecruiter, hiring, every business needs great people and a better way to find them. Something better than posting your job online and just praying that the right people see it. ZipRecruiter knew there was a smarter way, so they built a platform that finds the right job candidates for you. ZipRecruiter learns what you're looking for, identifies people with the right experience,

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The playoffs are approaching. They can't get here fast enough. 25 games left, more or less? More less. That was what Pop said. We only got 25 games to figure this thing out. And if Adam Silver has his way, although I don't know if it's,

I think Adam Silver is really good at floating things and sort of being like, I'm thinking about it. He's an idea guy. He's an ideas guy. So he is thinking about something that a lot of people have been suggesting over the years, including our boss Bill Simmons, is that we should do straight seating for the playoffs. That conference seating, one through eight in each conference is outmoded, that we're at a point where we could properly schedule things,

where we would go one through 16 and we would no longer have to have crappy eight, seven seeds in the Eastern Conference. I think this was greeted with a lot of excitement from fans. a lot of curiosity. And immediately, the first person to throw some cold water on it was LeBron James. We kind of as, off-line, we're talking a little bit about, well, why would LeBron not want straight seating?

And it was like, well, I mean, he's made the finals for the last, like, 12 years off this system. Because, and it's like everywhere he, you know, this is an interesting conversation to have in relationship to LeBron's free agency coming up. Paolo, what do you think of straight seating yourself and what did you think of

LeBron's response? So I think in theory it makes sense, right? It's more fun. It gets the best teams in there. I think I wonder so at the press conference on Saturday, Adam Silverster, it's not about tradition, it's about travel. Which I think is

kind of a cop-out in a way because there are ways to reconfigure things I think to make it an easier thing. I think the interesting part is just like the fact that LeBron personally I don't want extrapolate LeBron's comments would be like, okay. He's staying right. Yeah. I think he's just like, it was like very off the cuff and he's like

that sounds awful. Like traveling to the West Coast for a seven game series or whatever. Like I just think he's kind of like Yeah. It would be really cool until there was a Portland Miami series. Like guys were in the air for 14 hours every 48 hours. I do think it's interesting what you're talking about with

tradition there just because I think we think about LeBron as a disruptor in terms of just free agency and everything else. But I think he is a traditionalist. You hear him talk all the time and you hear people that know him say like he's just a student in the game. He really respects the history of it all. And it seemed like that's what was like his answer was steeped in. And I think on the other side of things, you have Adam Silver, who's very much a progressive. And even though he hasn't been able to get through a lot of things, the things that he has are very just liberal and just like a new fresh approach on things. They do a lot of things in the G League to test out and pilot that are just completely radical in that sense. And so I think when you're at the level, of the commissioner and LeBron James, two people who are just masters of working a press conference, like you almost have to look at this like political candidates. And I think they're very much aware that they're on opposing sides of this thing. And I think they are kind of messaging not only to the public at large, but to each other that like they're almost trying to sway opinion

and to rally the troops. I think it's a really interesting just theater being played out in front of us. And to be honest, I'm very much pro silver in this regard. Go ahead, yeah. Yeah, I just don't know how feasible. Like, what's the time frame? Do you, was there a time frame that was thrown out? There's a bunch of things that are when this would get enacted. I think it's something that they're going to actively look at over the next couple of years.

Yeah. One thing that Silver said was that I think he acknowledged that travel is not quite there. I think his quote was, you can't fight time zones. Yeah, it's basically maybe ultimately you have to add even more days to the season to spread it out a little bit more to deal with the travel. Maybe air travel will get better. So I have a message from Adam Silver, which is that air travel is getting worse. But he's flown the direct flight from LAX to Philadelphia.

I mean, it's like, would we mind adding games, adding days to the season? Like he says, like, you need to add days to, like,

even it out again? Can they accommodate that and a lesser, less games during the regular season? That's, yeah, that would be ideal. Also, five game series in the first round.

You just scale it back to there. But we already have, like, New Orleans in the central time zone playing West Coast games constantly. me. So it's already an imperfect system. And to suggest like LeBron kind of is that everything's just fine and good, I think it's really kind of just overlooking some of the flaws baked into what we already have. Yeah. So it's like, it's like would you tinker with it or would you rehaul it, revamp it, you know, completely and remodel it? I don't know. I think that I have like an

an affection for the conferences. I think you'd have to do a lot of funky stuff. Like the best of five, but the better seed gets multiple home games, like more home games, like maybe four out of the five, have to be played at that team's place. I still think that that's,

I think that there's a problem with it is that we get to the first round of the season, the first round of the playoffs, and a lot of the times half the series is are kind of duds. And I think that they are looking for a way in which they have this way, window. The NBA is sort of rising and it's in its curating across the country. It's becoming a more and more popular sport every month. And they want to take advantage of that and they want to they want to

create a postseason as exciting as the NFL's because right now they don't have that. Right now it's like the finals are good. There's a really good conference finals games but you have to be kind of a basketball junkie to really get into Milwaukee versus Detroit round one in a seven game series that could be three one and then like you know the lesser team steals games. six or whatever and you just kind of like, okay, let's keep going. That's what all of my non-MBA fans will say. Our friends will say. They'll just

be like, yeah, it's just like You're non-N NBA fans. You come to me from my music teaks. I'm a multifaceted guy. But yeah, they'll always complain about just like it's so predictable. And especially when compared to college basketball, it's the complete opposite of that. There's no excitement. You just have to accept the idea that the Blazers

could be playing for the finals. And they're not going to win the final. We already made fun of that game because we're Oh, the NBA TV game. Like, what's going to be the NBA TV like series this year or whatever? So, I mean, I think it would make it more fun. I think that I do wonder, though, in terms of tradition, if there is kind of like an allure that we give even to the Eastern Conference Final and the Western Conference Final, you know, we're still going to have those games,

but, you know, they won't have the kind of the, will they have the same kind of, you know, tradition or aura about them? I think that we at this table probably do because we think about things like Chris Paul's legacy. Right. And I don't think that the average sports fan, the average sports fan, the average sports sports fans' relationship to basketball is probably a lot more similar to the three of us in our relationship. You're a bigger college football fan. But I don't really care until it's like the last maybe like a big SEC game or the last few weeks of the season. And then it's the final four.

And then I become the world's foremost Clemson expert for two days. But it's like, that's where a lot of people are just like, oh, is it time to care about the Western Conference finals? We're like, oh, what would happen if Houston doesn't get past the second round? Like that's so. big and most people don't give a shit. And for the most part, we've been saying this all year. Like the Western Conference Finals this year is probably going to be the finals. Yeah, and that was Adam Silver's main point. Is that I too often, I mean, the Thunder and the Warriors from two years ago was probably

my favorite postseason series that I've ever seen. And that the fact that that was not the finals and ironically led to the sort of reshaping of the league, it's a really, really, it's a really, it's. a huge inflection point for the league. One of the other things that's been kicked around and Zach tweeted about this today and it's been talked about for a while is this idea of a play-end tournament

between I think the 10th through seventh seeds or something like that in each conference, which I think is really cool. Anything to kind of like generate interest, I do wonder whether or not you're basically competing get your head kicked in. Yeah, it doesn't solve the main issue of the other proposal,

which is just to make the first round more interesting. We're basically just saying you're having a play in in order to have a less interesting first round still. It's not like solving anything. Yeah. You know, we've talked about these sort of other ways to spice up the league over the years. I always like the idea of something that's closer to the FA Cup in soccer, which is like a concurrent tournament that runs alongside the season and has some sort of reward at the end of it.

Now, the FA Cup is in England, and it's a soccer trophy in England, which is the oldest trophy and it sort of has this history behind it and then every once in a while there's just like this huge upset and everybody goes nuts for it. I think that would be hard to generate that right off the bat

with the NBA, but lottery spot? Something? Like is there, cap relief? Is there something that you could incentivize where it would be like, what if the Warriors could win two trophies in one year and get a lottery spot or something?

Just say. And I mean like, like that would be, would you watch a single elimination tournament that maybe in the beginning of the rounds was maybe Patrick McCaw was playing more minutes but then in the semis and quarters was the regular the regular lineups and

that it was basically March Madness running alongside the NBA regular season would I watch it yes yeah I mean I watched the baseball one and out thing that they have going now and I don't watch any other baseball games right right so I think that that would be the carrots the casual fan the NCAA would not be cool of that no no if there was like a pro March madness going All right, well, we're talking so much about the playoffs. Let's talk a little bit about what's going to happen before we get there.

So I wanted to just get some second half predictions from you guys. Let's start with you, Powell. All right. I'm going to say the thunder. This is not a per se a bold prediction, but I'm in on the thunder. I'm back in on the three headed monster, even though Mel is kind of like. No Andre Thunder. I mean, I'm just, I want Paul George to have a just like a rampant second half of the season.

And I think they're going to get the three seed, especially now with the spurs being kind of like being dicey without Kauai. I think that's my main prediction, which is not, you know, crazy, but I think Thunder are going to look, like, we're going to go into the playoffs thinking that they have an outside shot at beating the rockets and then depending on the matchups, beating the Warriors, even though we know it's not going to happen. But I think they have, their top end is really impressive and it's really fun to watch. Right. I already have a higher point differential than the San Antonio Spurs. There you go. Just in terms of my own prediction, I'm very pro Utah jazz these days, mostly in order to support.

my own... Well, that and to support my own prediction from January and to just continue to tell you guys about how amazing and wonderful I am as Danny here is every day in our office. No, but all of the math suggests that they're a way better team than their record is right now. Obviously, they were without Rudy Gobert. They've been without Ricky Rubio at times. They're counting a lot on Donovan Mitchell, and that is going to scare me. And obviously that they're still trying to play two bigs is scaring me.

but I think they have a software schedule over the last couple games and they've really found something here. I love Royce O'Neill. I think what they have just works. I wouldn't be surprised, young Paulo, if they finish with home court advantage in the first round. You think they're going to get up to the four seed? It's just such a...

It's wide open. A traffic jam right there between 3 and 10 right now. And if Dante Exum comes back? Oh, come on. I forgot. Is he supposed to come back this season? He might. God, that'd be great.

What if Donge was holding himself out? So the jazz fans are envisioning a lineup with Donovan Mitchell and Exum in the back court, and they're calling it DMX. Oh, my God, that's good. Can they just play Refriiter's Anthem whenever they take the game? What's up for Libbyo? He just had like a little hip injury. Yeah, I know.

What's weird is that he took off during that streak. He was scoring like 30 points a game. Like, Danny and I talked about it at one point where like he was actually getting to the rim and finishing. And actually those like rocket launcher three-pointers were going in. And I don't know how sustainable that is. He's not. He's a really confusing player though.

Let's ride the wave. He'll be back soon, I believe. I think it was just a hip, like kind of just ding. Danny, what's your second half of the season? You know, I was going to say your predictions were a little tepid until you kind of finish it off. So you think aloes, the thunder will be good? Well, no.

They're not necessarily tepid, but there wasn't a real concrete prediction there. There was no. There's no hill that they're dying on. The thunder are going to win the West. Sure. Okay. Why not? Let's go.

Let's circulate that on social. My prediction is that the Sixers will be the four seat in the east. Love it. Wow. They've had the toughest schedule in the season. Check your Venmo. And I think Embed has been just phenomenal. All-Star MVP.

Yeah. The real MVP. If he was in the game, Team Steph would have won. they've been an incredible defense since 2018 and everything seems to be clicking. You know, fingers crossed, there aren't any major injuries. Everything seems to be clicking. Yeah. They have Bellinelli?

Yeah. Markle Fultz is like not even in the back of my mind. No. Yeah. He isn't played right. Just wait until you see the next video of him on Twitter. Danny. Is that your prediction?

Awesome prediction. Thank you. My prediction is pretty boring, but it's that the Warriors are about to rip stuff up right now. They play the kings They play the sons three times They play the kings twice And they play the Hawks twice They have the easiest record

Of playoff teams in the Western Conference If my If my reading of a weird chart was right But either way Those guys, we already know That those guys have burner accounts Like they read the internet They've seen our

Are we sure the warriors Are we ready for this takes? They've seen us second guessing them They've seen people you know, ripping them for letting Dremont coach against the sun. Kitty only reads tech blogs. I don't know what you're talking about. That's true.

Yeah, he's just on, he's on Gizmodo every day. No, I think that they are going to be properly motivated. They wanted to get to the break. They got the break. They have heard our second guessing. And now they're in the, for the first time in several years, they've gone into the all-star break, facing the prospect of having to play on another team's home court

to the extent that Houston has a home court advantage. in the Western Conference finals. I think that they're just going to rip off. They're going to be playing their best basketball when they get into the postseason. And I think that this is not going to be as close as we thought it might be in the playoffs. Yeah, I'm very much on record now

that I think the Rockets are going to win the title and finish first in the West. They get Trevor Reza back, I believe, soon, which I think we'll help. I think we have multiple bets about this. Okay. Yeah, we could settle up later. But I think it is funny that I look at the standings right now and the Rockets, even with the Warriors struggling,

in their quotes, One ten in a row, up and half a game on the Warriors, then everybody is like, I guess that's it for the Warriors. Isn't that great? Yeah. So I think that they'll be fine.

Do you guys have anything else you wanted to get off your chest about the second half of the season? Any hopes, any dreams? I just want everyone to have a good time to play well. Let's see the Nuggets actually make the playoffs. Yeah. I'm ready for this.

I'm really ready. No step back. Yeah. I very much believe in what they have, but I can't go out on a limb or die on a hill for them, simply because there's just so many young guys. Like, I love Jamal Murray. I was like, I believe I said he's going to be better than Brandon Ingram the other day,

which is a take that I guess I'll have to stand for now. You like go backwards into these stakes. You like say them and then you have to like go back and double down on them. Just to, you know. He spends so much time being like, this was my take. Remember that? He also feels like he needs to be like, I have to say that I did have this other take. Right.

You need to stick to your convictions. But they're counting on a lot of younger guys. Gary Harris, another guy that we like. It's just like they're on the younger side, Yokic. They're not really proven, so I think Millsapp will be a big key for them. He needs to come back. I hope his wrist is like, I hope they put in

some, what's that black Panther? Oh, the librarian. Yeah, yeah. That's all they need. They also may need some alpha dogs in the locker room. Listen to that Richard Jefferson Pod with Bill where they were just like, we're just a bunch of chill bros who love to meditate. It's going to be Devin Harris. Yeah, it's going to be Devin Harris.

Devin Harris. Yeah. Hey, Jonathan Charks has mentioned that Devin Harris is going to make a huge difference All right, John. I love John, but, you know. Let's walk back. On that note, on Devin Harris is going to save the nuggets.

Let's wrap up group chat for this week. We'll be back next week. Make sure you check out the Ringer NBA show. We're pumping out tons of pods every week. Heat check, Verno and Kev, sources say, draft class, group chat. Thanks for listening. Basketball is very good. Basketball is very good.