The Ringer NBA Show - What Is Going On With Recent NBA Officiating? Plus, Tyronn Lue’s Phenomenal Coaching | Real Ones

Episode Date: January 11, 2024

Logan and Raja discuss Raptors head coach Darko Rajakovic’s postgame rant aimed at the refs in Tuesday’s loss to the Lakers, and a recent streak of missed calls in big moments around the league (1:15). Next, they highlight the incredible job head coach Tyronn Lue is currently doing with the Clippers and how he’s turned them into the hottest team in the NBA (20:09). Finally, the guys close with their Real Ones of the Week (40:10). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout ringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Justin Verrier from Group Chat on the Ringer NBA show, and we want you to come hang out with us at All-Star Weekend in Indianapolis. Big Waz, Rob and I are recording a podcast live from Hi-Fi Indianapolis on Saturday, February 17th at 2 PM with Friend of the Show, Jay Kyle Mann. Get your tickets now at hi-fiindy.com. That's H-I-F-I-Indie.com. Get your tickets while they last. What's popping?

Real ones, Logan Reddock here, Roger Bell, there. Thursday, Real Ones, I told Raja, for everybody listening, I told Raja the quick rundown of what today's pod was going to be. The first segment, as we're going to talk about the week that was for NBA referees, and Raja, his face was, let's go. Let's get it. Like you've been pondering and thinking about this for a second. No, no. More so that I feel bad, you know, I have empathy for the, and sympathy for the referees. Okay.

Let's paint this picture. Let's paint this picture first. And then I'll get your take on it. And then we'll get to the episode. First, the first instance of refereeing gone bad was the Lakers Raptors game in which the Lakers out free throwed the Raptors had more free throw attempts than the Raptors in the fourth quarter. 23 to 2. And the Raptors coach, Darko Ryakovich, went in. One of the best high raids, if not the best high rate against the ref that I've ever seen.

It was like a European ref that just goes hard. It was, that was better than anything that I could have imagined. It was the best storyline. I couldn't wait to get up in here and talk to you about it. That happened. And we'll get to that first. What were your impressions of the rant, what it means for a young team, what it can do to galvanize? what was the whole shebang?

What was Roger Bell's reaction to the whole shabang? Yeah, that's interesting. A lot there. First of all, what it does for a young team is it just, if there were any,

if the jury was out at all on whether or not he had your back completely, if he was fully invested, like that showed that he did, right? You know fully well you're going to be fined. You know that there are going to be ramifications for that. But you felt for your players and their efforts, you felt so strongly that you had no choice.

And sometimes coaches have to do that. I don't think this was one of those scripted. Sometimes a coach will come out and get a tech defending Logan just to show Logan, hey, bro, or to wake his team up because he's in some sort of, you know, coaches strategically do stuff like that. I don't think this was strategized. This was him at his wit's end and not understanding. So that's what it does for the team. Hey, he went to bat for us.

Coach ain't with that. Like he totally went to bat for us in a way that. he knew there would be, you know, consequences because of his actions. On the coaching side, like where he was, it's interesting because the European game, Logan, is a more pure product than the NBA game. The NBA game is an entertainment dollar business. So it's a hybrid of real basketball. Like, obviously, there's incredible skill level and talent size and athleticism.

You see shit on NBA courts that you don't see anywhere on the, planet. So I don't mean to undermine how great it is. But at the end of the day, it is, it's big business. It's entertainment. Not that it isn't big business in Europe, but the game is more pure. Like they're not, they're not, they're not changing rules like the NBA does for points to be scored. So it's a better viewing thing. Like they, they don't dive into that as deep as we do. And so what you saw was a coach who's very, very accomplished at his wit and and frustrated with the politics of NBA. And he wasn't, see,

the refs were the, the symptom that night. Like, that's what he was mad at, but really he's mad at the league, because that's a league thing. That's not the refs coming out saying, hey, we're going to give Toronto the business tonight. Like, that's not what that was.

I don't think that there would be any type of, there would be any type of mandate from anyone to say, hey, Toronto don't get to win tonight. I'm not saying that. I'm saying this is, this is just what it is. stars and names are going to get calls in a way from refs that players that haven't reached that level of accomplishment aren't going to get.

And, you know, that's how it manifested itself the other night in 23 to 2 discrepancy and fouls. You know, in the second quarter, I've told this story before. People don't want to hear this shit. People don't want to hear it, right? I had an instance with Kobe Bryant in the Staples Center. I was playing for the Utah Jazz. I was up in this stuff like crowd in this stuff.

like crowd in his space. He shot me a quick elbow, cut me under my cheek, under my eye. So we kind of, you know, nose to nose. The refs come in and give us double text. He was heated. In my presence, right there, he looked at that fucking ref and said, call it even tonight. I was flabbergasted.

I was in utter disbelief. My face was like, what the fuck just happened? So, no, I couldn't tell you how that was going to play out. That was just a dude who I had gotten under his skin. we were at each other next. The refs had to step in, and that's what came out of his mouth. What does Roger Bell's face look like after some, after, after,

like, what? I'm like, bro, he just said that. Like, um, and so it, the reality of that game was I went to the free throw line more times that night than I typically went to the free throw line. Like I was, I don't know why.

I mean, you telling me I was that much better of a player that night? I don't think I was. I went to that damn free throw. though. That's my, that's my experience with that. Happens to happen in Staples Center, don't it? Always happens to happen in Staples Center, right, Ron? Well, I'm not, but listen, I'm telling you, I'm not even beefing and tripping off of that. Like, I've told you, I was an extra in the movie. No, I'm talking about, I'm talking about this, your experiences versus the Raptors experience both happening. Oh, happy. Here's what I'm saying.

Look, there are a couple things that go into that, right? Like Star Power, we talked about, me, Kobe, then LeBron and AD, right? But also, you know, venues and, and, and, and, and, you know, and, home crowds and you'd be naive to think that refs don't know how story to franchise the Lakers are and that you're playing in Staples. There's a lot of dynamic that goes into a human being wearing those

stripes, you know, maybe giving you the benefit of the doubt or not on that particular night. So one of the questions that I did want to ask you, and the free throw discrepancy is a lot in the fourth quarter, specifically for, you know, this game. I want to

put on Rogers hat and play Devils advocate really quickly. Yep. And usually when you see a free throw discrepancy, it's, it's, it's a bit more nuanced than you might think, right? Like, it's not always, it's not always black and white that, oh, man, this team got more fritos than us. This is an unfair thing.

This is just an unfair advantage. Sometimes another team is just way more aggressive than you, right? Sometimes it just gets that way where maybe the team that isn't going to the free throw line probably isn't going to the cup and isn't being as aggressive and it just happens that way. In this case, I'm not sure. There's a lot of video evidence to suggest that there was definitely a difference in the way the game was called. In the media see after that happens, what is Darko saying to his team after he does this rant?

How does the, from a young perspective, this is a team that still kind of figuring himself out, has RJ Barrett. They just brought him in. It seems like they are going to move Pascal Seacum at some point, probably during this deadline. They're just in a different time. They're trying to transition into a winning team. What is Darko saying to this group afterwards? How do they respond to this? How does this galvanize a group, a young group?

Well, I think his message is we just got screwed tonight. Everybody saw it. You guys lived it. I lived it with you. It makes no sense to sit in here and try to put lipstick on a pig. Like, that shit just happened. But that's where we are. And so I'm proud of the fight.

I'm proud of the fact that we were going toe to toe despite, you know, five against eight. We had a chance to win the game. And, you know, I would also take the chance to point out situations in the game where we could have been cleaner that might not have put us in that position despite what the rest were doing in the game, right? But the fight was good. We're a young team.

We just keep fighting. I also loved how, you know, he specifically called out players by name, just taking an opportunity on a huge platform in a rant that you know is going to go viral to tell people about Scotty Barnes and how good of a player he is and that he's going to be. you know, a multi-time all-star face of the league type of player. Like, you know, I think he went to bat in a big way for his team in that rant. In the locker room, I think you're keeping it a buck. You know, that sucks.

But that's where we are. And what he might not have the experience of is, is lifelong NBA coaching experience where you could say, hey, guys, that's just part of this business and where we are on our arc, you know, as a team. we're young, don't have guys that are going to garner the respective referees in that way. When we play superstars, we will get the short end of the stick in certain situations. We've got to be better than that. Don't think this is forever.

As we continue to ascend, we will start to get those whistles. It's kind of a right of passage, but let's stay the course. I don't know if he has the experience to really know that that's probably not forever, as long as they keep developing as a team and Scotty gets better and RJ gets better. But I think that's his message. What else can you say to your team? No, I will say this. I was pumped up just watching it.

I wanted to go play for him. I wanted to be a 14, 15 man on a bench. It was a great thing to wake up to. It was a dope rant, man. It was it was hard for. And I really felt for him because, again, I played for a little while overseas. And I know those coaches, you know, I've talked about a cat named Dusko Ivanovich that I played for over in Spain, they don't play the type of games and they're not used to having to play the type of

games that you would have to play in the NBA a lot. Well, refereeing is different at that different, right? We had Sue Byrd on earlier this year or last year and you guys are talking about just a difference and just refereeing overseas and out here. While it is entertainment, right, because there's big money to be made in some leagues overseas, I don't think it's marketed like that. And it's not the deals and the revenue produced by the deals isn't. swaying decision-making as it pertains to rule changes and things like that.

It's the best way I can say it. You know what I mean? I think even with a refereeing, like it's not even just what happened. The refs are not having a good time in this last couple of months. And I know that refereeing is a hard thing to do. But when I talk about this next instance this week, the Celtics Pacers ending, which had a review in it, right, where let me just paint the picture. there is a foul call that was against Buddy Heald hitting Jalen Brown in the head as he's shooting.

Somehow that gets reviewed and then overturned when everyone in the world saw Jalen Brown get his head hit in the waning moments. And then you have a Christos Porzengis foul that is ruled at the end in the last two-minute report that it isn't a foul. That's, I think, even more egregious, Raja, because I mean, you could say in the rap, Lakers game that, hey, like I just said before, 23 to 2, that could be subjective. Hey, one team wasn't being aggressive enough. But when you have a league and a referee base, review a call that is clearly one way and they get it wrong.

And then they get another call wrong. That's consequential in the Eastern Conference. And an Eastern Conference race, that's a little bit different. And that's where I say, Roso, that they need to get it figured out. the whole reason why we have reviews is so this shit doesn't happen, right? And it doesn't matter when it's in a last two-minute report. That's not helping a team out.

It's it behooves the ref to get it right the first time around. And that's what's more concerning in my eyes, Roger. Yeah, I mean, these are two different scenarios for sure, right? One is, hey, man, people get preferential treatment for the refs. That's been in, that's been since the dawn of time in the NBA. Like MJ got a bunch of free throws. Come on, like, that's just what it is. The other one is just, you know, human beings getting something wrong.

I want to be clear. I don't want to, like, rant and rave. My sister was a Division I ref. My father was a, I don't know if he was a Division I ref, but he was a college basketball referee. I know a lot of people. Dedrick Taylor is my good friend. He's an NBA official.

Johnny Goebel is an NBA official. He's a friend of mine. He came up in the Miami Basketball League. Dudrick Taylor was my college teammate. Eric Lewis, recently out of the NBA for some crazy stuff, but a friend of my sister. So I am close to refs. Like I know a lot of refs personally in my family. It is not an easy job.

Like it's not. I can get up here and tell you, you know, that they need to be better and some of that shit is egregious and whatnot because it affected my livelihood in a way and my job wasn't easy either, but their job is not an easy job. having said that, it's what you signed up for. And, you know, just like any job, mine included, like if I'm not doing it well and I'm making mistake after mistake, there got to be some ramifications for that.

And I get it. They get graded and, you know, the better graded refs get to playoff games and they're incentivized to be better and stuff like that. And that's cool. But, you know, I don't have an answer for how you get that right. If there's replay involved, everyone's looking at it and you still get it wrong. Well, what's the answer to that? that, Logan. I don't know what the answer to that is.

It's basically, you might as well not even have the reviewing process. If you're going to get it wrong, that agrees with it. What's the fuck's the point? Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the... I vacillate. I go back and forth over the review anyway. There's a part of me that understands you want to get it right. And, you know, some games, the outcomes have been changed because of it. And there's an old school part of me that's like, look, man, shit was fine before you had it.

Yeah, but like, I don't know. I go back and forth as well, right? Like it's not only in basketball, but in football, you know, especially when, because my thing we're reviewing is if you don't have it, there are going to be so many times where maybe there's a question we'll call here, a question we'll call there where the game was on the line. This is legacies and all this. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's so critical that if you didn't have it, you definitely, there's always a time where you wish you would have had it, right? Like, I don't know. I think there was a playoff game against the Cowboys and the Niners.

back in the day and correct me if I'm wrong wrong ones, but there was a Jerry Rice catch, and I think he fumbled it or something like that, and his knee was clearly down, but the ball didn't, the ball, there was not a review process in place. It could have been that game,

but it could be always others, right? But like those types of things in a playoff game where you would want it, if it's not there, then you're like, a lot of things could go bad and legacies are on the line. I feel that. And like I said,

I kind of go back and forth on it because I would, I agree. I mean, I guess it depends on what side of the ledger you're on with that. But like last night I'm watching the end of the Celtics and T. Wolves game. And this play stuck out to me because, I mean, I think it was, yeah, it was aunt taking it. They got the ball. Tatum and missed the free throw. They got the rebound, scored. And Aunt had the ball late, got to his right, got downhill, going to the free throw line with, I don't know, five seconds.

left and they reviewed it. Like Boston decided to review it, right? The players were adamant that they didn't foul. I mean, it was a foul. But what stuck out to me in the moment when I was watching the review was, those refs could make any decision they want in that moment based on, like, it's not black or white, whether he was fouled or not. Like, if there was some contact early and then he was let go and wasn't fouled at the rim,

they just say that was the contact. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like it's not like an ironclad way to get it right evidence by your initial question to me. Like they could look at that film and if it fits agenda for any reason, not saying that they always have an agenda. I mean, there's a way to skirt the reality of what happened if you wanted to. It's not an exact science. And it's not like, and I do want to say like ref's jobs are hella hard.

You know, my uncle money was a ref for the show. Really hard. He was a ref for the Pac-12 or Pac-10 at the time. and just the stress that comes with that. You know what I mean? Like you're playing and like all eyes are on you or all eyes aren't. It's one of two things. All eyes are on you because you fuck up.

And no one cares when you are good and you have a good game. It's just like, oh, that's what you're supposed to do, right? That's the job. I know. If they don't know you're there and that game went off and it was a great game, you refed a hell of a game. You ever been a ref for us? A real ref?

Like I've reffed at summer camps and no, I have no interest in. No little kid just ran up on it. Like, that was a fucking foul. Yeah, no, I can't. Oh, yeah, they do that in practice. And my response to them in practice clearly, clearly illuminates for me that I have no business being a ref. Because I, no. I don't even take that well in a practice scenario.

I don't even deal with that well in practice. Coach, that's a foul. Hey, man. Who's rough in his goddamn game, boy? Yeah, who the fuck you think you're talking to? No, it was, and then you realize you wrong and you're like, damn, my bad, you're right. Damn. Well, no, maybe you don't, maybe you don't admit you're wrong when you, when you ref up practice.

I don't know. I will. Yeah, if I'm really wrong, but I'm rarely wrong in practice because I got the whistle. Okay. All right, all right. Let's take a quick break and let's talk about one of Rogers' old coworkers, Tailu. Get in on all the NBA buzzer beaters, ankle, and Tomahawk jams with Fandul, America's number one sports book.

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first online real money wager only $10 first deposit required bonus issued as non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt see terms of sportsbook that fanduil.com and we are back Kawhi Leonard

signed an extension three year extension with the clippers and that immediately made me want to talk about someone else and that one guy is Mr. Tai Lu who has led the clipper to win 14 or last 17,

the hottest team in the league. The most exciting team in the league, Roger? I just, we always allude to how great of a coach Ty Lewis, but I think we're seeing a masterclass in how, and how great he is in this season. And I think even in past seasons, his greatness as a coach was overshadowed by things beyond his control. And Cleveland doesn't really matter how good you are as a coach if LeBron James is your star player, right?

It's kind of like being a referee. Like if it's going good, you're not getting under the credit and you're, it's probably going to say anything. If it goes bad, that's what we're going to hear your name the most, right? And then he goes to the Clippers where has to do with a lot of injuries. And the fact that they're that they have continued to be afloat says a lot about how good Ty Lou is as a coach, but the casual fan isn't going to see that, right? just going to see that the Clippers are a 41 team yearning year out and to be like, well, what do

you mean he's a good coach? Like this is an average team on paper. But I think now when you're having all of the personalities that are in the Clippers, on the Clippers roster, integrating James Hardin, relegating Russell Westbrook to the bench, having a great Kauai Leonard season and PG season, all coming together at the right time. How does this happen, Raja? What does it say about Tyloo as a coach? That's a big question.

Tailu is a great communicator. Let's start there. Because so much of dealing with the NBA personality as a head coach, the NBA player personality as a head coach is communication. And being able to clearly articulate and express your message of what you expect and how you think things will work, both individually and collectively. And then be able to maybe listen to someone that might have a counter to that. Without acquiescing to every demand, but having flexibility enough, if it makes sense,

to say, hey, maybe there is some wiggle room here. And he's not afraid to explore that at times. And there's a fine line between that and being a pushover. And so when I watched Ty and just while I was around him as he was an assistant in Cleveland, I thought he had a really, really great feel for relationships. And it sounds corny, but it's deeper than just having a relationship with someone. Like the fear that you have for a young coach that was a player

is that they blur the lines between being cool and having that cool relationship with the player and then having a firm enough hand to hold him accountable and make sure he understands when you ain't in that, hey, I'm your boy mode. And that's a hard thing for young coaches. And so as I watched him, like Ty Lou was as good as I've seen of a guy being able to get right up to the line of like, yo, I'll come back here and throw a couple cards on the table with you maybe. Or, you know, we can talk in a way that you don't hear many other coaches talking to players because I'm that close to your generation.

But at the same time, when it's business, he drew the line in a way that people knew. They were like, okay, there's a line. I'm not going to cross that. And so he has a very, very good ability to do that. And when he's got those genuine relationships with players, there's more trust. There's more understanding when a message isn't something you necessarily want to hear. And I think he does a great job of that. Now, on the court, I think T. Lu sees the game from a player's lens in that I don't think

he's all the way analytically driven. Not that every analytics coach is, but I think he blends the two very well. Like Tilu, I'm watching them the other night. I think they were also playing Minnesota for all the T-Woles fans that say I don't watch T-Wolf games, okay? I think they were playing Minnesota and they were, it was some incredible shot making, by the way.

Hey, T-Wool's fans, we'll talk about your team when they're good and they're really good right now, so we'll talk about them a lot. Listen, first of all, sidebar, that mofo might be the most athletic dude on the planet. Who's that? Anthony Edwards might be the most athletic dude on the way.

He might be the most athletic, like, person walking. freaky. But the shot making was incredible, but anyway, sorry, I digress. The point was, Tulu's not afraid. Like, he's got coverages that he'll run all over the floor. But then he's also the dude that's telling you, a Laa, you know, a Nick Saban or a Bill Belichick,

hey, we're going to take away your strength. I'm doubling that. I'm doubling it right now. Make him get off the ball. And you don't always see that. Like, some coaches do it, but a lot of guys kind of gets stuck in their coverages and they're reluctant to do certain things.

I think T-Lu is very, he's not afraid to explore those type of things that as players you feel like, hey man, you just got to get the ball out of his hands right now. I know analytics don't support that shit, but you've got to get it out of his hands. Like, he's got that feel. And I think, I think, you know,

I'm getting really long-winded, but that's a part of he's got a great feel. I mean, he knows his shit inside and out. He's meticulous. Like, we'd go into practices with the Cavs, and it'd be his defensive assignment. And these be playoff games. And, you know, I loved it because I was cut from this cloth.

We'd be in there not going hard. The dudes would just be walking through a rotation. You know, you're walking through. Let's say it's a double on the first dribble. Boom, we're coming down. Bam, we're kicking out to the weak side. We're all rolling. He's going to catch in the wing.

And we got a red on a pick and roll that's going to naturally kind of happen on that weak side. And we've got to walk through that. And they'll walk through that 10, 12 times just to make sure everybody knew that song and dance. So he's well prepared. He's meticulous with that. He's got a great,

for the game. He communicates great. And if you've been watching the Clippers, while they may not have won a championship, with that lineup and the people have been in and out of it for years with injuries and all of the fluctuation of that stuff, just what he's been able to do with them, I think it's a testament to how good

of a coach he is. I'm just picturing Roger Bell, just hands on his hips in the corner of wherever that practice facility was in Cleveland, just marveling at, just a beautiful defensive sequence and just a defensive set.

I will say this real quick, because I do have more questions about Tailu, but there's nothing more beautiful than a defense that's humming when you just see just the sets just going. Like I'll be at Chase Center a lot and our people hate this, this, when you have a seat behind the basket. I love it because you can see all the defensive sets from like high up. So when I see it and I see a good defensive team come through, it is glorious. When they're just on a swivel and they're just, they're helping the helper, Raja, they're defending the pick and roll perfectly into a kickout and they're closing out. It's beautiful.

So I could just see you in the corner somewhere just like just tears coming down your eyes. Just seeing a beautiful defensive set. Well, I was very appreciative of it. And mind you, he was an assistant coach. And he just at the time you could tell, while, you know, he was interviewed to be the head in Cleveland. And for whatever reason. Did Blatt already have the job already?

No, no. He did not have the job. I wasn't there for Tilo's interview. I was there for David Blatt's interview, right? So Tilu had already interviewed, Griff, Trent, Kobe already had their kind of assessment. And I guess ownership had already heard about Tilu's interview. They were very high on him when I got there, very high. But in fairness to David Blatt, I mean, he had a fucking home run in his interview.

You know, they say some people interview well. Yeah. So he did that. And then, you know, we went out to dinner and he killed the dinner. Like, he just had a very good thing. How do you kill a dinner? How do you kill a dinner in an interview process really quickly? Because I heard that about like what Mike Brown was like for the Kings and his interview

process just like had spreadsheets and how he was going to handle this situation if it comes about this situation. comes about how the long-term vision of the team, how I'm going to get to that vision, like that blew all the King's officials away. What is the version of that like when David Blatt is trying to be the head coach of the team? Yeah. Well, I don't remember him spreadsheet and stuff like that, but he was buttoned up and had answers to just every single thing, knew the roster inside it out, had answers for what he

was going to do with the pieces to try to get the most out of them, what we were going to do defensively went into depth for some of the things that he thought might be able to work in the NBA that we weren't seeing regularly in the NBA. And so it's utter preparation and knowing your shit inside and out clearly because we're going to keep firing different questions at you in a loose setting to see if you're ever off. Do you know what I mean? Or if that story changes. He knew his stuff inside and out.

Are you at the dinner just like just giving them shit like I'm going to get him with this one. I'm going to get him with this. Oh, damn. You got him. No, because the other part of that, the other part of that is just being a really good personality that can carry a room. Some dudes can't carry a room or mousy. They might know their shit, but you're like, he'll never be able to get up in front of a team and command eyes. Like, that can be hard for him to be ahead.

He can be somebody's guy behind the scenes that does all the work. But then you're going to have somebody else standing up in front of the team delivering a message, you know? And so, all right, sidebar. like T. Lou, right? I am a young front office dude, right? And David Griffin is like, hey, man, we're going to start getting you ready because this is part of the job.

You're going to go in and address the whole team about, I don't know if it was, I don't know what it was in regards to, but I think it was something to do with medical and supplements and all of that. And I had to address the team. Now, I've never addressed the whole team. I'm the dude standing over there. I'm in the offices. the owners and stuff like that, right?

And so I go in the locker room and, you know, I addressed the team. And T. Liu grabbed me after that. And he was like, hey, man, he was like, that's really good. Everybody can't get up in front of a group of their peers from a couple years ago and be comfortable to deliver a message like that. Now, that came from T. Liu. But that's the other part of an interview process is you can carry that. And T. Lou, like, knew that and already had that.

I had witnessed it from him. You know, he had been coaching for a long time. I didn't know exactly what it was until he kind of illustrated it for me. And I was like, you know what? I could see that because I was a little nervous going. I don't know why I would be. But because I wouldn't have been when I was a player. But when I did have to go in there, I had some nerves going in there,

wearing my sweater and my fucking slacks. And so it's sometimes hard to do that. So that's the other part of the interviewing process. It's just being able to carry the room, being able to be a douchevoo. over that glass of wine. Like, before we know it as the interviewers, we're just having a dinner. We're shooting the shit.

You have gotten all of us relaxed, and this is no longer an interview. And, you know, David Blatt did that. I'm sure other dudes do that. I'm sure T. Lou did that, even though I wasn't there. But that was my experience with that interview. With T. Like, how did he balance?

This is the last T. Cleveland question. How did he balance, like, knowing that he was going to be the head coach or knowing that he was interviewed to be the head coach? excuse me, and then kind of like not step on toes when David Blatt was like, what was his process on that? When if you know that you got interviewed for this, you are now the number two.

How did he approach that part? Well, that was really interesting too because, I mean, close is not doing it justice with how close he actually came to getting the job. And I think they made him like associate head coach or something like that. And a highly paid one too Like he was like really highly paid Yeah So he probably at some point

The the info he was getting from his agent I would guess was hey you probably got that Because that would have been the feedback he was getting Prior to the David Blatt interview right We loved him bro we think we think There's a good chance he's going to get that So it had to be a huge letdown that he didn't But when I tell you you wouldn't have seen that

Ever from him He approached it like a true true pro. And again, while clearly you can be a great NBA coach without having played in the NBA, I do think there's value in having played at some level because that's a part of being a team. Like your role right now, T. Lou, isn't, it's not what you thought it would be, but you still play an integral role. And he dove into it and he attacked it. He supported David Blatt. He wasn't afraid to voice his opinion, obviously, even if it wasn't in alignment sometimes. Like, that's part of being on a staff too and on a team. I might not agree with everything you say,

you know, and I'll have to push back in a way that's constructive and helps us get to the best version of what we want to do. Like, he did that. I thought he played that position brilliantly, bro. And of all the coaching, like, when you're that close to your first head gig and they pulled a rug out from under you, I mean, it would be really easy to come in and wear that on your sleeve and be hay and undermine and stuff like that you know any of that bro never wow so back to the clippers we see you know we both had our reservations and i think for in large part our reservations are still there um just because no matter how good they are it doesn't matter they have to prove it in a few months they have to at least follow through in that but when you see

this team what kind of team do you see in the in the western conference race because I'll tell you what I see real quick. I see a team that they're fourth in the standings and the teams above them, Minnesota, Oklahoma City in particular. Denver is a different case because they've already won a title. They're Teflon. They know what it takes to get there. But two of the three teams above them don't have the playoff experience of a Kawhi Lennar,

right, or a PG or a James Hardin or Russell Westbrook, right? So if you have the clippers going against a Timberwolves team who is really, really good in the regular season, but, you know, has, I think Oklahoma City is probably a better example of this of a team that just hasn't been there before that's super talented. Minnesota has played in the playoffs. But when you see a team like that in your face and the Clippers, how dangerous could the Clippers be in a Western Conference playoff outing? because even the teams around them, right? Like, I trust the clippers over the Kings. I saw the Pelicans last night. I think I trust the Clippers over the Pelicans.

And the teams that are around the Clippers, aside from the Nuggets, I think I trust the Clippers more at this stage of the season. I'm going to agree with you, Logan. You know, that pains me to do that. I haven't done it too much on this pod. So he agree. Hey, everybody, fuck what Roger says. He agrees with me, okay?

He knows that I'll be right. I agree with you a lot. I agree with you a lot. I agree with you a lot. It's a shtick. It is. It is. Come on.

Ha, ha. Man, I've apologized to James Hardin before, right? I did that on a pod. My days blur sometimes. I've done it too many times, dude. Do you sure you want to do this? You sure you want to do this? Well, I'm just going to, if I didn't for some reason in my mind, like, my thoughts are

escaping me. Like, yeah, like he's been, he's been great there. They are tough in a playoff for, for multiple reasons. You just touched on the experience. and trusting some of those players in that time of year more than some other teams, very fair. What they can do to you and get a bucket time, right? Like, I talk about this a lot.

The playoffs change the game a little bit in different ways. Like people talk about it slowing down and it gets more physical and all of this and all of that. But another area that it changes in is there's a portion of playoff games that's larger than regular season games where you're in, you got to get me. a bucket mode. Yeah.

Meaning you're giving the ball to somebody and they got to get a bucket. Stars got to shine. And it's heightened in the playoffs.

It becomes more imperative to have dudes who can do that in the playoffs. And they have at minimum three dudes that are bona fide

can get you a bucket. Like just as as good as just about anybody. And most teams don't have enough wing slash guard

defenders to put out those three fires. So that's first and foremost. Secondly, like, they can get really, they can get really long athletic and, well, athletic is relative, right? Because they're a bunch of young cats. They're probably more athletic than these dudes now. But they can get really long and stingy defensively.

And on the flip side, like, at least two of their very, very, very good, can you get a bucket dudes are also. I'm going to stop your get a bucket dude from getting the damn bucket. Quiet, PG. Right. So look, I'm not sitting here telling you they'll win a championship, but what I'm saying I agree with you, not only for the reasons you said,

but for the reasons I just spoke on, then I'd just throw the topic of conversation, you know, before this into the mix is Tailu's really good. Tailu is really good. I sat with him at tables in breakfast meetings, in San Francisco while he was talking to David Blatt and the coaches about what happened

in game two of the finals and how we'd have to strategize because we just lost Kyrie and what we're going to have to do to be viable moving forward and if you remember like we were heavily under man we had lost Kevin Love in the Celtic series then we lost Kyrie

in game one of the finals. You guys were so up to one in the series, aren't you? But it was just we were like I mean LeBron was brilliant the deli play people were playing phenomenal but there were a lot of moving of the X's and O's there was a lot of chess match being played behind you know the scenes

and while I'm not taking anything away from David Blatt at all because he was the head coach I was present like at breakfast meetings and other meetings where T. Lou was doing a lot of the talking in terms of hey here's what here's what I think needs to get done so like you add him to the mix and what we just talked about yeah I think they're dangerous I like them

I, it's just, we have to see what happens in May and beyond because, you know, historically speaking, this team always crumbles when it comes to those times, right? When they're supposed to, last year was a bit of an anomaly because Kauai got injured, right? But they're fully healthy. You know, even with James Hardin's playoff struggles, it doesn't matter because he's not the number one guy. It's Kauai Leonard. And Kauai Leonard has proven time and time again he can meet that moment and carry a team. now we'll see what happens but I am

pretty convinced that this could work out Raja, it's Thursday you know what that means it's time for real one of the week I have a real one but go ahead Raja go do your thing

I don't want to take your real one I appreciate that thank you for the gesture man who could I go with originally I was going to go with the Toronto Raptors coach what's his name again I'm sorry forgive me

Darko Ryakovich I think I said that right I hope I said that I hope you said it right too. But originally I was going to go with him because it was just an epic rant and I just saw his utter disbelief in that happening in a game.

Like he really was like, so disrespected by the game. He really was. This is a disrespect. This is disrespect to James Naismith. It's ridiculous. This is crazy. This is bullshit.

He was exasperated. He could not. He really was. I felt that. But I'm going to go with the, in the recent like football world, you know a lot of mine come down to football. That time of year.

Yeah, I'll go with, this is a tough one between Sabin and Belichick. I'll go with Belichick. I'll go with Bill Belichick. Yeah, Tom Brady won a Super Bowl after he left New England, and New England hasn't been great since then. I've told you I'm a Tom Brady fan now,

so it's not to take anything away, but you can't take away from what Bill Belichick built there. I mean, I don't know what that franchise was like, but I don't remember them being relevant. when I was younger. And I know I know they had a year they might have went to the Super Bowl against the Bears maybe,

but he just took a franchise and built it and developed and, you know, was a hard-nosed, tough type of dude who I always like playing for. And so I hope he finds the gig he's looking for next

and I hope he has success at it, but he's going to be my real one of the week for his reign in Foxborough. And I'm not even a Patriot band. I don't even like the Patriots, but I got to respect the G. Look at you. Look at you. Just going right into the Boston propaganda, the ringer propaganda.

Just the whole shebang. I can't do it. I'm sorry. I got to respect the G. I mean, shout out to Belichick. That took rule game still fucks me up to this day. Well. To this day.

To this day. Got to catch some breaks. Yeah. Yeah. We got the other break on the other side. he ain't been the same since, Rob. But shout out to Coach Belichick.

I'm going to give it mine to an epic rant. I'm not sure if you saw this, Roger, but friend of the show, Stephen A. Smith on an epic rant. Giving him my real one of the week. He said what needed to be said, and that's all I'm going to say about the situation. But it was an epic rant

last night on the Stephen A. Smith show. Shout out to friend of the show. Stephen A. Smith. I'm sure you heard a lot of those rants in the... Did you hear a lot of those rants in the six or beat at the Sixers locker room? He was on something. I was literally watching it as the

Riverside chat opened. I had it up. I was watching. I have to finish it. But now, I ain't seeing Stephen A. like that. I watched it. I was at the Warriors Pelicans game last night. And I literally watched at the whole first half because it was not good basketball being played in front of me. So I just, I watched that. It was way

more entertaining than what was going on on the floor. Roger, who you got winning this week in the playoffs? Who's going to be your sleeper pick this this week in the playoffs do you think so we got cleveland at houston yeah who we got hmm Cleveland at Houston's a tough one pickums real quick I'm real quick for Roger get out of here I want to ride with my boy C.J. Stroud I'm going to go with uh man that's a tough one Cleveland's playing Joe Flachow um I'm gonna go with CJ Stroud and the boys in Houston

D'emico Ryan's and I'm gonna take them what about you I'm gonna I'm gonna go with I'm gonna go with I'm gonna go with the Texas as well because every like two weeks I send Rajah just some YouTube shit of C.J. Stroud he's my favorite leader quarterback. He's the one. But I don't know if that's going to happen. We'll see. But anyway, Dolphins Chiefs, who you got? Can I just say this though?

Like I was I was a CJ guy before there were CJ guys. Like real talk. I used to tell my son, hey bro, CJ is the guy. He's the guy. I liked him at Ohio State. Yeah, he was the guy. Yeah, this was early at Ohio State. I'm like, that muffly, he could play. Anyway, the next one

I got to look, I would like to be able to travel around and traverse these streets of South Florida safely. So I should say the dolphins. The problem is it's like sub-arctic conditions in Kansas City and they got Patrick Mahomes. Like, what do you want me to do? At home. At home.

What do you want me to do, man? I'm going to take the Chiefs. It's going to be two degrees. It's going to be two degrees. Yeah, it's going to be, I'm taking the Chiefs, damn it. Sorry, guys. Packers, Cowboys, Roger. I think I'm going to go with the Cowboys.

McCarthy. Take the Cowboys. Rams Lions. I'm going to go with the Rams. It's so fucked up to the Lions have to go through this. There's too much at this point. All to go play against Matthew Stafford,

coming back home. I think Matthew Stavis is going. And Shaw McBay, going against Jared Golf. I'm going with the Rams. I'm going with the Rams. I'd like to take the Rams. I'd like to take Detroit,

but I'm going to take the Rams too. I think Matthew Stafford gets it done. Yeah, I'm going to go with that. Hey, Jordan loves a G2 though. Shout out to Jordan Love you. We're taking Dak, Prescott, and the voice. All right, last one for Rob.

gets out of here. Buffalo. Eagles. Oh, I thought you were Buffalo, Pittsburgh. Yeah, Buffalo, Buffalo Steelers, yeah.

I'm not fucking, no, no. Eagles bucks. I can't. Bro, go ahead. Go ahead.

I don't know, man. The Eagles suck right now. Sorry, Allison, our talent booker, who's a Philly, who's a Philly gal.

Sorry, you know, we love you, but, and my mom's a huge Eagles fan as well. I'm going to go with the bucks. I just want chaos fucking. Because they don't

deserve the way that they've played down to stretch, the Eagles don't deserve anything good to happen to them at this point. Yeah, I mean, I can make a case for them. They have been pretty stinky lately. I'm going to take them to beat Baker Mayfield and the Bucks, though. The Bucks are a good story. Like, I'm happy

for Baker Mayfield and all that, but I don't know that they've lit the world on fire in a way that even the Eagles playing subpar. Like, I think the Eagles win that. Okay. We'll That has been another edition of real ones. It's MLK Day on Monday, so no real ones on Monday, but we will see you guys next Thursday.

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