The Ringer NBA Show - What is the Knicks' Offseason Plan? | Weekends with Wos

Episode Date: June 26, 2022

Wos is joined by The Athletic’s Fred Katz to discuss what the offseason plan is for the Knicks after trading out of the first round on draft night (2:15). They discuss the Knicks' free agent targets and what else they are looking to do to improve the roster (11:36). Host: Wosny Lambre Guest: Fred Katz Associate Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Benjamin Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, friends, and welcome to a golf podcast, unlike any other. This is Fairway Rowland on the Ringer podcast network. I am your starter. Joe House every week on Fairway Rowland. It is myself and our PGA tour correspondent on the ground, Nathan Hubbard, talking all things, professional golf, amateur golf, amateur betting, professional betting, amateur drinking, professional drinking by Birdie Buddies. If you want to hit them straight out there,

please check out Fairway Rowland every week, available on Spotify. Back, ladies and gentlemen, to another edition of Weekends. I'm your co-host or actually your host. Big Was, A.K.A. Wazley Lambray, and I'm joined, man, by the great, great, great Fred Katz of the Athletic.

He covers the Knicks over there, amongst other things. Fred, fresh off the draft, I thought outside of what happened in the top three, the most interesting story was the New York Knicks and their shenanigans. And I couldn't think of anybody better to have on to speak to that. Welcome to the show, Fred. Well, you're bumping me up way too much. I consider myself moderately above average. So I appreciate it.

You were on the Wizards beat before this, and they stunk up the joint, and you found a way to make that interesting. Nobody shines a turd sandwich quite like Fred Katz, Ken. That's quite a bragging point. Hey, I used to like to say that there was nobody outside of anyone who worked for the Wizards who sat around pointlessly thinking about the Washington Wizards more than me. And I think it's possible I still hold that title. That's amazing.

So let's get into the drafts because the draft is sort of a precursor to what we think is a very important offseason for the Knicks coming up. You know, I talked to you briefly yesterday about this, but when this trade goes down and we're getting the bits of bits and pieces. and my man, Jake Fisher of Bleacher Report, great, great reporter, sort of newsbreaker type of guy, he put out a tweet that said, I don't know what's happening, basically. Dude, that killed me. That was the best, that was the best breaking news tweet of all time.

Just like, look, like, I'm kind of confused, but I think this is happening. And that Knicks move kind of confused a lot of people. But, you know, essentially they traded their first round pick for three future firsts, a varying quality. But that's essentially what happened. Can you break down to trade in a little bit more finer detail for the people at home? Sure.

So they made three trades. And all of the information scattered out sparingly, right? So at first it seemed like, oh, they just used a number 11 pick to dump Kemba. And that's kind of the narrative that followed it. And I don't think, I don't think that's really what happened. I thought their moves were, were fine. I mean, ultimately what it came out, it was, it was three trades that turned into the number 11 pick, the net gain, I should say, was the number 11 pick and Kemba Walker going out.

And coming in is Milwaukee's 2025 first rounder, which is top four protected. And it's not going to be the number 11 pick. No, it's going to be late. It's going to be late. Washington's 2023, which is protected, lottery protected, and then the protections lesson goes all the way out to 2026. And help me. Which one?

I'm forgetting. There are so many picks. Is it a Denver? No, they got Denver and then they rerouted Denver. See, that's what I'm trying to say. It's Detroit. We got a mess up. has a lot of protections on it.

The Detroit one is protected all the way out to 2027, and it starts out top 18, protected in 2023, and that's protected all the way out to 2027. See, it's so much that even, even as I've had days to let this sink in, I still like, what, what picks do they get? What do they have? I thought their moves were fine. It was a, it happened in a very dramatic way and leave it to the Knicks to not make a first round pick and still have the most dramatic draft.

but the number 11 pick, I'm not a draft expert, but you talk to the Kevin O'Connor's of the world and people were not thrilled with the guys available at number 11. It was not your normal year for that sort of like eight through 14 range at the end of the lottery in terms of talent and surefire guys or even kind of the high ceiling. And just so people understand, like we tend to think of the Donovan Mitchells, the Paul Georges, the Kawhi Leonard's,

the like, you know, the guys that got picked in that range who have become bona fide NBA stars. Yeah, but let's talk about Euroslav Coralev. Yeah. Exactly. And those guys sticking our brains. And I think for good reasons, but normally you don't get a lot of value out of the 11th pick.

Yeah. And this year, look, the Knicks are basically trying to split that one asset into multiple ones. And obviously they're also trying to create cap room, which, you know, they're probably going to at least attempt to use on Jalen Brunson, which I'm sure we're going to talk about. But like, there's a possibility that one of those picks ends up being late lottery anyway. You know, that Washington pick is lottery protected in, in 2023.

And I would say the greatest likelihood is it doesn't convey in 2023, because I'm not projecting Washington to make playoffs in 2023. Detroit is top 18 protected in 2023. I love Detroit's young players. I think they have a really nice future. but they're not going to be a top. They're not going to be somewhere from 19 to 30 next year. That pick's going to convey later.

And there's a chance that you get two more picks in the teens. And you also have the ability to use those picks as currency, which I think is something that's very possible. Like I would not be surprised at all if they didn't actually make all three of those picks because they attached it to somebody else to unload more salary or because they include it in a trade, like you talk about Donovan Mitchell, like they include it for a trade for a big star so they can say, hey, we have the ability to trade like six first round picks for somebody now.

Yeah, and they do own all of their picks going forward, which is a very new thing for the New York Knicks franchise. It's just not something that's always been the case. And, you know, the Kemba part of it where if you break it down, they basically surrendered four second round picks to get off of $9 million in salary. I think some people would be like, that seems like expensive for $9 million.

But, you know, you have to think about where the imperatives lie, right? Like if your imperative is like, I have it on pretty good authority, I'm going to get a free agent in with, you know, that money coming off of our books, then it's not that big of a deal. But because they've swung and missed so many times in the past, that's when you start to see this as, hmm, like, what is really going on here? Can we trust that, you know, this space, this room that's being created. for potential free agents.

And if we're being honest, like, I don't think it's like an Aitin thing because he's a restricted guy. It's the unrestricted's. It's the Karees. And it's the Brunson's of the world. So it's like, if they don't get either one of those guys, then that's when people start to be like, look,

you have a decent, I like the guys, the young guys on the Knicks. Like, I like quickly. I really like Top. I feel like I like topping more than most people. I'm a fan of RJs, just how well-rounded out his game has gotten, even if he hasn't become this extremely potent one-on-one wing type of guy that you might have hoped for. But like this idea that you could just punt and be like,

I don't need no more young talent. I could just trade it, right? And I think part of the calculus, too, of getting out of the first round is that you don't have to take on that salary of your first round pick, right? Yeah, because they double-salary. That's $4.5 million right there in your first round pick plus Kamba's $9 million. Right. And I'm just like, okay, but you're not quite in a position to say, I don't need young guys.

So that's where I'm a little bit conflicted with the moves that they made for it. I think that's fair. I think there's a difference between not saying you don't necessarily need young guys and then just punting those further down the road. Like they have kicked. I think I wrote that they've kicked so many cans that they just have fooded toes. Like all they do is just, like, they did last year. They had the 19th pick. And they're like, we're going to trade it to Charlotte, top 18, protected for future pick.

And that was the pick they flipped for for Cam Reddish. I mean, they are, they, they love doing this sort of move. As for the second rounders for Kembo, which I forgot to mention also, you know what? I think it's a classic case of how you can't really judge every trade in a vacuum. For example, like, OKC gave up three first rounders for the number 11 pick. If I told you that in a vacuum and we didn't just go like, oh, the Knicks traded number 11 again. And I said, somebody traded three first rounders for the number 11 pick in this year's draft. You would probably on your initial time hearing that, you would think that's pretty good value.

But the reason that OKC doesn't have to worry is if they really like Uzman Jang, who they took with the 11th pick, they really like him. they have so many picks that they could just be like, you know what, screw it, give up an extra pick. Who cares? It's like when a billionaire walks into Whole Foods, he's like, oh, I don't care that the price of pineapples went up 30 cents. Right. Like he's just going to pay the extra 30 cents.

Yeah. And the Knicks, meanwhile, were like that with second round picks. They were plus eight. They own all their own second round picks and they own eight second round picks from another team. What are you going to do? Have a team with 14 second round picks on it. The only thing that you can do with those picks is use them like,

I said is currency. So when you get off four second round picks, it's not like a team that's just like got all of its own second round picks and no others. And now they're left with no second round picks. They're still plus four in second round picks. Yeah, and I'm somebody, I'm the kind of guy who's just like, look, these second

rounders, if it's not like 33, 34, 35, I mean, I don't, I personally don't give a damn like you're just as good as bringing in an undrafted free agent. If it's going to be one of these late second round guys, I don't know why people make a big deal out of it.

I wouldn't, again, like, if your agenda is to create space and that's all it took to get to get $10 million off of your books, I have absolutely no problem with that. And so let's, you know, I think this is a good opportunity to like spin this forward. We've all read the reports coming out of Shams, your colleague, my former colleague. The Kyrie's like, well, you know, I have suitors. You know, if you guys don't want to, if you guys want to offer me a two plus one, I can get a three plus. one from teams that can open up Max Space and I'm like, who are these

teams? Like I'm pretty sure the Knicks if they really wanted to try hard enough could get off a Fournier or maybe figure out a way to get off of Nirlins or get off of Derek Rose or there's a myriad of ways and ways that they can open up room. Tibbs ain't getting off Derek Rose.

Tims will cut off his left leg before they trade Derek Rose. Theoretically, there are these ways for them to get Mac space. You know, it might hurt a little, but it's like, all right,

if you believe in this guy enough, you can do it. Detroit coming into the offseason was seen as one of these teams. I don't know. I don't feel like Detroit is really a player. OKC, one of the cheapest teams in the league right now,

could probably do it. But like, when you talk about Detroit and OKC, like, they're not Kyrie Irvin destinations, and especially when you're trying to create something new with a bunch of young guys, bringing in a dude who takes sick days like it's water to be around your young guys and to give up stuff to do so doesn't seem right.

So it's like the Knicks seem to be in on Kyrie. Jalen Brunton will get into, I want to get into your Kyrie. What do you have on Knicks and Kyrie? Because that sounds like, oh, theoretically, oh, he would just be moving across. the water and blah, blah, blah, blah. But, like, that just seems ridiculous to me, no?

So I've, I've hit up people who, who know Kyrie and no, like, and, and people who know stuff about the NBA. Like, you know how this time of the year goes. It's like, you just call people and you're like, hey, what are you hearing? You know, what, what are you hearing about this guy? What are you hearing about this team? What are you hearing about this trade? What are you hearing about this signing?

Like, you just kind of, you just kind of shoot the shit with that person, right? And so I hit up a couple people who I figured might have intelligence analysis of what is going on with Kyrie. So what do you think is going to happen with Kyrie? And you figure even if they don't say for certain what it's going to be, they're like they have some sort of, they can add something in the conversation. And all of them are just like, I don't know. That's amazing. I don't know. I think everyone's just like, I don't know what's going to happen.

I mean, the thing with Kyrie is that you would think, and we've seen, if Woj is mentioning the possibility of Kyrie taking the taxpayer, mid-level exception with the Lakers for $6 million, if Woj is mentioning that, then there has got to be some veracity to it. Like, there has to be. I mean, he's not just throwing that out there. No, no, no, no. There's veracity in the sense that I can believe that Kyrie and his representation

communicated this possibility to Shaw Marx, do I believe they would actually do this? And this is what I've been saying for like a week and changed now, Fred. The Nets feel like you're erratic and you're unreliable and how you could try to get them to think like, no, no, no, no, we should give you this money. He's like, I'll blow this whole thing up. I will forego about $120 million or something like that. and a two for one.

So I can go take $6 million to play for the Lakers. That's how you convince the Nets that you are worthy of a five-year deal. Does that make sense to you? Like, the type of person who would do that is also the type of person who deserves a five-year max extension. Am I following that logic? The right way, Fred?

So, first of all, I think the stuff with the Nets is really about, it's really about years, I think. I don't know the specifics of the years, but I think it's really about a disagreement on years. And no, it doesn't make sense to me, but it doesn't have to make sense to it. That's fair. Sitting out half the season and sacrificing half of your salary

doesn't really, that's not a thing I would do. But we've seen that Kyrie is a guy who when he truly believes something and when he wants to stand on principle, he's willing to do it. And lost money is not going to stop him. And you know what? in some ways, like, I don't know, maybe he's, maybe he's saner than, than every one of us.

We're like, he is going to make hundreds of millions of dollars. It's like, go to the thing that makes you happy. Right. Now, once you get to hundreds of millions of dollars, it's like, your great, your great grandkids are going to be really, really rich anyway. So just go do what makes you happy. Maybe, maybe Kyrie has the right idea. So, you know, I don't know.

I think if I'm the Nets, like, you just can't let him go away. I just don't understand how you. do that. Like, I just don't... They can't replace it. They're over the gap anyway. You've made your bed. Like, you've let these guys punk you and treat you like a doormat. Kyria's post-game press conference after getting swept said he's one of a part of management. He's going to talk to Joe and Kev because he's management. Like, you've made this bed. You kind of have to see this thing through. You can't just start Oh, you know, it's sort of like, you know what it's like, Fred, you meet a new girl.

You start hanging out four or five times a week. Then it starts to become a little bit overbearing. Like, at first it was like, oh, I'm really into this new girl. Ah, I need to do this four or five times a week. Then you try to scale it back? Yo, maybe, you know, you can stay at your place, whatever. Like, I'm going to start hanging out with friends doing this. And she's like, no, we've set this precedent.

We're not going backwards. That's not how this works. So I don't understand how Sean Marks and these guys think they can go from... That's so good. I'm just telling you. I don't understand how they think

they've already established this precedent within the relationship. You give these guys what they ask for at every turn. Matter of fact, you put your foot down about COVID and went back on that already. So it's like,

you guys have always. already showing yourself to be spineless in this situation. Katie and Kyrie are running things. You got to bring this dude back, period. You're going to have to bite the bullet, pay your 50 mil per year, whatever is going to take, and just hope for the best because, you know, you reap what you sew, I guess. Yeah, I mean, what's that, what's that Chris Rock bit? Women can not go down a lifestyle.

Kyrie could not go down a lifestyle. That's... Exactly. That's Kyrie and the Nets. And so we move on to the other logical free agent, um, target of the Nix. And it's been bandied about it. So there's been a couple of guys that the Nicks have been attached to. I've heard Dame Lillard stuff back when Dame did his little toe in the water with Chris Haynes.

I might be wanting this, but he said, forget it. I'm good. I'm a chill. We've heard the Knicks attached to Spider Mitchell. where, you know, World Wide West is going to jazz games and pissing off jazz management and all of that. But I think the number one person is Rick Brunson, where it's like Leon Rose's kid is representing him,

which I didn't know until like three days ago, which shows you I don't know shit about the NBA. Leon Rose's kid represents him. They just hired Rick Brunson to the staff. Leon Rose was Rick Brunson's agent. Rick Brunson being Jalen Brunson's father. Former Nick, by the way, once a Nick always a Nick. There's all of these ties.

Oh yeah, Rick Brunson also when he played for the Knicks, played under Tibbs, who was an assistant. Rick Brunson was then an assistant with Tibbs in Chicago. Two other stops. He was then an assistant with Tibbs in Minnesota. Now he's an assistant with Tibbs in New York. Yeah, Rick Brunson was Leon Rose's first client. Wow.

They are, Rick Brunson lived at Leon Rose's house. Okay. And you know what? You know what the craziest part of all this is? None of it has to do with how good of a basketball player, Jalen Brunson is. None of that is reason to give someone $100 million.

I like Jalen Brunson. I put my money where my mouth is. I like Jailen Brunson. I had him on my six of the year ballot two years ago. Like he, he's a really good player. I like Jalen Brunson a lot, but just, I don't know,

that kind of stuff, if that really is the logic, and it is, the relationship stuff has been written about a million times, but like if that really is the logic, that is not the greatest process. Like, you should probably sign a guy

because he's really good at basketball and because you think he fits really well into your basketball team, like not because of any sort of personal, reasons. Like it just, it just feels a little off. But Jalen Brunson's, he's a good player, he's unrestricted, and it's during a summer where there just are not a lot of good free agents and there aren't a lot of good free agent point guards. Once you get past Kyrie and you get past Jalen Brunson, it's like Tyos Jones, who I think is, he's like one of the best backup point guards

in the league. But it's not like if you make him your starting point guard, he's like a top half of the league starter or anything like that. He's just a really reliable backup. They obviously feel the need to go after Jalen Brunson. I mean, what they're trying to do right now, where they can open up today if they waive Taj Gibson at the start of free agency. They can open up like 16 million in Cap Room. That's not going to be enough. They have to, they have to dump at least one other guy. Could be Alec Berks on a 10 million expiring. Could be Norel in a 9 million expiring. Could be Evan Fornier, who's got two years and like 37 million left. I think Berks would be the easiest to get rid of. I think Noel, you have to attach a better asset, too, to get off of him.

I've heard that he's, he's been really difficult for them to trade. But those are, those are guys. I think they've all made very clear are available. Berks just, you know, undergoing foot surgeries does not help his value at all. But, but Berks is like a good player who fits into a lot of teams. And I think they expect him to come back and be healthy and be fine. So if that is the case, then like somebody will want Alec Berks. He's on a fair contract.

And I don't think it should take a ton. to create that room. If you can, you can get to about 25, 26 million in room. Now you have a legit offer for Jalen Brunson. But it's possible he goes back to the Mavs. Like when you make that move with Kemba starting to clear room at the draft before free agency starts, you better be back channeling and knowing Jalen Brunson is coming, right? I mean, that's one thing. And it's not even back channeling. It's like front channeling. Yeah, that's what I was supposed to say. They're moms and, excuse me, they're a dad. involved in this.

Like, it seems like they would have a channel to Jalen Brunson's thing. But here's, you know, because we throw these terms around all the time as media, right? Is a guy underpaid, overpaid? Is that a value contract? Or is, you know, is this going to be very hard to move? Rest work, right? We throw that stuff around. Like, to my mind, you can overpay when your team is.

very good. I'm not even talking about, like, championship. Like, I think, so, like, I'll give you a couple of examples. I think, and this is a championship example, Clay Thompson is overpaid. But Clay Thompson, that's fine. Within the context of Golden State, a rich-ass team, a great-ass team,

just won the championship, Clay Thompson, like, like, there's the stuff that he does on the court, but there's a part of, like, he's a part of what they are, he's overpaid and it's fine. Harry Barnes, if they would have brought him back on the deal that he ended up signing

after his rookie thing, that's fine. And Michael Porter, Jr., on Denver, a team who's went to conference finals, kicked the shit out of the clippers who we thought were world beaters, right? Were killing people before the ACL situation

with Jamar. Murray, like, okay, Michael Porter Jr., you overpaid him, especially with the injury history, but like, is Denver? How often do they get these kinds of guys? They got this championship window. They got this great player. I get, which I get why you overpaid. Yeah, when a guy is a missing piece, it's the same thing with trades, too.

It doesn't have to be with money. Like how Milwaukee gave up a ton of first round picks for Drew Holiday. Yes, they overpaid, yes. Right. They, they, in a vacuum, they, you know, air quotes, overpaid. the trade for Drew Holiday. But Milwaukee would do that trade a hundred times out of a hundred because Drew Holiday was the missing piece.

And he makes them a great team. Yes. Right. What would you rather have one extra first round pick or a ring and maybe more? Yeah. You know, they're not done. They get another. And so we just described all of those scenarios where overpaying made a whole lot of

sense. This ain't that scenario, Fred. Like, what does, what does Jalen Brunson? do for this team. And I'm talking about you just bring him in. And it's still RJ, it's still Julius Randall, it's still the quote

unquote Nick Core, which is kind of just laughable, honestly. But like the Nick core, like, what is that team? I don't know. It's probably about the same as it was last year. Okay. About, unless unless, like,

the young guys just make leaps. Like, RJ, I think RJ has gotten better. Every year he's been in the league. Yeah. I think RJ will probably get better next year. You talk to anybody who has any kind of relationship with RJ, front office, coaching staff, his trainers, his work ethics and that's why I love him. Yeah. Everybody talks about how competitive he is.

Also, it's not just his work ethics, something I've noticed from covering him a year. He has a certain humility about his flaws, which I noticed that a lot of young guys who I've covered don't necessarily have. For example, last year, actually on New Year's Eve, he texted his trainer, like something along the lines of I'm over missing all of these jump shots. I'm just going to go to the rim all the time now. That night, he took nine layups, which is a lot. He took nine shots in the restricted area. From that point on, he took nine and a half shots in the restricted area game for the rest of the year. third most in the NBA.

Only LeBron and Janus took more. Like he self-identified. Like, you know, I'm not hitting these jump shots. I'm over it. I'm going to start to play like Jimmy Butler. I think there's a certain self-awareness to him, not just that he's working hard. I think he's working on the right things.

I think he has a good idea of who he is as a player and what type of style will turn him into potentially an All-Star one day. I think that type of mentality is very encouraging. I think he'll get better. I think quickly he could get better. Obie just, you know, if he just gets more minutes. Yeah, it'd be nice if he could just see the floor tips. Yeah, I mean, I think, I think Grimes has, has a good future just as like 38 to 40 on

threes and really feisty perimeter defense against guards. I think he showed a lot as a rookie. So, like, that's kind of their best way to improve, just the young guys take steps. They have to actually play the young guys, which is something. But they, I think that's kind of their best step. But like, I'm, I'm with you. Their offense is kind of capped, especially if they bring back Mitchell Robinson. It's just in 2022, R.J. Barrett is the best version of himself inside the three point line.

Julius Randall is the best version of himself inside the three point line. And Mitchell Robinson isn't just a center who doesn't shoot. He's a center who is, he basically plays offense the same way that Brooke Lopez plays defense. Like he like 29th the paint on offense because they use him as this extreme offensive rebounder. And he can't do anything away from the rim other than dribble handoff on occasion. And so like he is in the paint. I wouldn't be surprised if like second spectrum had him as the guy who spent the highest percentage of his time in offense in the league in the paint. I think that's extremely possible.

And so it just hurts driving lanes. It hurts spacing. And you have your two best guys, even when they're shooting the three ball well. it's just like they're the best inside the pain. You want to optimize RJ Barrett. You have him going at the rim. He's a heck of a slasher, you know? Like that's how you want to use RJ.

You don't want him to be a spacer that's misusing his skill level. And it's skill type, you know? And it's like you're going to have, they were 24th, 25th, and points per possession last year. You're going to have a cap on your offense when you have that scrunch spacing and that type of shot selection. Julius Randall taking that many mid-range shots. Your crunch time offense being like Julius Randall brush. screen. Then he goes into a post up at 18 feet. And then here comes the step back. Like, that's, you're going to have a cap on your offense with that kind of spacing. And,

and I don't, I think Jalen Brunson's a good player. And they were really lacking at point guard last year with Alec Berks and Campbell Walker. But, but I don't know, like, if your offense is still going to run through Julius Randall, like, I don't know how much that really changes things. Jalen Brunson's really good inside the three point arc too. Bring in Jalen Brunson for 27 Mill Per or whatever you bring him in at, like, does he even get to have the ball? Like, between Julius Randall and RJ's ascension, like, does he even get to use the ball? You know what I mean? Like, that's why I'm confused by the Jalen Brunson full court press because, one, like, look,

I like the guy. I think he's tough. I think he plays really smart. I think he's a fine point guard. I loved what he did in a playoff. for the Mavs this year. He is your third or whatever ball handling option on a good team. He is not some primary engine of something that matters or is significant, right?

Like, it's better than a lottery team for sure. Like, the Knicks next year with him on there is better than a lottery team. But, like, are they a seventh seed? You know, like, are they a six seat? I don't think so. And we can just get off of this point. So, because I do want to talk about the rest of the Knicks offseason. Let's just say they do somehow bring Jalen Brunson in here and it's great.

And it's a family affair and reunion. And it's great. Kumbaya, right? What else are they doing this off season? They don't have any rookies to develop, as we mentioned. No, they got, well, they got Trevor Kielse who they drafted in the second round. I think we're going to see some change on the vets. they've been very, very, they've made those guys super available.

Evan Fornier, Alec Berks, Nerlins Noel, any of those three, maybe even two of those three could end up being out. It wouldn't surprise me. They've made it very clear to the whole league that those guys are available if anybody wants them. I don't think they've had very many biters yet. But I think it's, I think they're going to be trying to unload those guys. The thing for them with that is that like half the.

the league is in the tax. And they're only four, I guess they're going to be the fifth team with Caproom now. You got Detroit, you got Indiana, you got San Antonio, uh, as, as possibilities to where you can, you can, you know, dump those guys. But the whole league is going to be competing with Dunkin grounds. And one of the really interesting things. So this is really nerdy. So Dallas and the Knicks are going to be competing for Jalen Brunson.

But if Dallas resigns Jalen Brunson, and we're talking about Jalen Brunson, like him coming to the Knicks is some guarantee. Right. It's not. I'm not betting my life on Jalen Bruns to come to the Nix. He could totally resign with Dallas. Keep going, keep going.

If Jailen Brunsson resigns for Dallas, 22 a year, 25 year, 2080 year, whatever it is, Dallas is going to be approximately $12 billion into the tax. They are going to be so far over the tax. They're going to have to dump someone, Damas Bortons, whomever. And so the Knicks and Dallas are going to be like preemptively competing for salary cap dumping rooms too. So like if I'm Dallas and I really want to screw with the Knicks ability to make a good offer with for Jalen Brunson, I'm trying to find out through Intel what teams are the most likely to take on the Knicks guys.

And then I'm being like, here, do you want Davos Burtans? How can we incentivize you to take up Davis Burtons so you have no much room? You have no more room. and now all of a sudden that team is out for the Knicks. Like I am strategically finding my dump teams depending on which teams like the Knicks guys the most. And so that's like a really interesting little subplot there. So I'm following.

I don't know how Dallas is going to handle that stuff. But that would be my galaxy brain move if I were Nico Harrison. Ah, the Knicks never a dull moment, especially in the offseason. God knows on the court. I went to sleep on them by like January this year. But, you know, offseason, always something interesting. It would absolutely be the most Nixian thing ever for them to do all of this, you know, back dealing type of stuff

with the kinds of people that they've hired and organizationally off of Jalen Brunson to go back to the Mavs. That would just be, chef's kiss, perfect Nix outcome. I don't know what you do at that point. But at least they're at a point, like, I don't anticipate they're going to dump these guys until they know for sure. Yeah. Jaila Brons is coming.

Like, Kemba was the one, because I think they just wanted off of Kemba no matter what. Like, Kemba, they sent Kemba home in the middle. Yeah, that had become toxic. That had become toxic quick. Tibbs was like talking about him as if he had already passed away. You know what I mean? Like, it was like, one of the best moments was, was, Mark Berman from the New York Post

asking Tibbs where Kemba was and Tibbs was like, I don't know. I don't know. And I was like, man, this thing turns south quick. There was such incredible vibes on Media Day last year when like Kemba's coming back to New York

and he's so excited. And Ty Gibson's been trying to recruit him there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was even into it all the way here from L.A. I was like, I love the judge. juju of Kemma coming back. They need a point guard. It's going to be great. They need shooting. They need all of that.

He's got the pull-up game and the pick and roll, which they had in that. And, oh, it's going to be great. And it was just, it was a disaster. Man, Fred, thank you for doing this today. Tell the people where they can find you and your great work, man. Yes, you can just go over the athletic. Subscribe to the athletic. Read the athletic.

You can find me, if you're a Twitter person, you can find me on Twitter at Fred Katz. And, yeah, that's it. All right, Fred. We'll be seeing you in Las Vegas for Summer League, which I'm really excited about. Not just the young guys, but just catching up with old homies like you and so many other people. So I'll see you in Vegas. That was our show for this week. We'll see you guys next week.

Peace.