The Ringer NBA Show - What Pieces Are Missing From the Brooklyn Nets’ Locker Room? | Real Ones

Episode Date: February 1, 2021

Logan and Raja start the week off by talking about the Wizards' last-second 149-146 win over the Nets and what it looks like when a player is fully checked out, like perhaps one Bradley Beal (4:00). Then they get into the Nets’ side of things and what pieces are missing in the Nets’ locker room that could be the difference between a championship and a bust (19:00). Finally, they discuss the Miami Heat's chances to be contenders this season (42:00) and Aaron Gordon and Kyle Lowry’s beef from Sunday night’s Magic-Raptors game (49:00). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's popping? This is Logan Murdoch from The Real Ones. We had a really good discussion with Roger Bell today. Unfortunately, on my end, I forgot to press record on the recording. That's my bad. So we're going to go Zoom audio on my end. And apologies, man. But it's a really great show and tap in. Real Ones, Logan Murdoch here with Roger Bell. Happy Black History Month, man. We're here. We made it. How you doing, Roger? I'm good, brother, yourself. I mean, you're beanied out.

Like, you're messing with me with my beanie. Like, you're beingied out ready to You pretty much copied me, bro. Like, let's keep it a buck. First of all, I was on the chat first. I was on the Zoom link first. Can we confirm that, Sasha? Like, do we want to get into this? Do we want to get into this?

Fair enough. Do we really want to get into this? Enough said. You got the, you got the, you got the beanie on the day. You got the little flannel right now with some like taco meat showing. What's going on, bro? Are you dropping, bro? Like, what is going on right now?

What are you doing? What is going to? I don't know. Usually coming with the hoodies. Usually come through with, I don't know, man. I know. I know. So, again, full disclosure, I was in there getting to some housekeeping with my wife and forgot we were potting lightweight. So this was like quickly, no shave, no haircut. Like, let's get to the shits type of stuff, right? And then secondly, it's a nice crisp 70 degrees in South Florida right now. I don't want to hear that. It's lightweight nippy out. side. Why is it always nippy? Why do Floridians always say it's nippy when it's 70 degrees? Like we and Sasha over here in the bay and it's freaking freezing. It's freezing. I don't know why,

I don't know why you say that. Is it to throw it in our face? Is it to be mean? Is it to, what is your, what is your angle here, sir? Well, but I mean, I guess if I took it back like episodes and episodes ago. I couldn't throw something in your face unless I lived in the better climate. And you challenged that ascertaination weeks ago. So by definition, I can't throw anything in your face right now. What I'm saying is it's all relative. And 70 for me happens to be crisp, bro. Like, I got to throw on a flannel and a beanie. That's all I'm saying. Oh, my goodness. Florida is it. Oh, my goodness. I got to put on a flannel in 70 degrees. Oh, I got to put on a PD. Anyway.

Hey, wait, let me ask you, is this a thing on the West Coast, too? Because my boys, they want ski masks, right? They want ski masks that they roll up to look like beanie that just sit on top of your head. Like, you never even see the ski mask part. Where did that start? When did that start? Yes. You think it's starting on the East Coast, bro.

Like, we don't need, I mean, we don't need that for activities. You know what I'm saying? we don't need that. Like, there's no real reason to do that. There's no reason. Maybe and use it, but there's no reason to have a ski mask on. Just put a beanie on.

Just put a beanie on, bro. And like, honestly, global warming and stuff, we really don't need a ski mask on the West Coast. Unless you're in Portland or something, unless you're in Seattle, you don't need that in the Bay or in Los Angeles. I don't know, man.

You know what I mean? I don't know. There's a bunch of youngans running around Miami right now in 75-degree weather with ski masks rolled up to be being these right now. I mean, it's everywhere. I don't know.

I'm just curious. It's just not practical. And also, you know, the kids, bro, so they don't know what being,

what practical is and what not being practical is, bro, it's 70 degrees in human, man. Like, why do you want your whole head to be sweating

because you wanted to wear a ski mask? I don't know. At athletic events at that. So anyway, let's, I digress. Let's get to the shits. Yeah,

yeah, yeah, okay. All right. All right. All right. All right. So I was watching,

I was a little hoop, a little hoop. And I was, I turned on the, um, the Brooklyn Washington Wizards game. And you know, it's cool.

It's like the Brooklyn Nets are like up 18. It's a, you know, I just think, you know, Washington Wizards, there's a lot of dysfunction and turmoil there. I'm just thinking like,

hey, man, Brooklyn Nets are going to, are going to win this very easily. You know, I turn it off. There's no real reason to watch it. Right? Yep.

Um, you know, and then I'm preparing for this. I'm going to turn it off. I'm going to prepare for this. spot. You know what I mean? And I go back and look at it and then I see that the Brooklyn Nets fumble the bag. And what I mean by fumble the bag is there are what five points, 12 seconds left. 12 seconds, yeah. Bradley Bill gets it goes full court, hits a three. Ah, right? All right,

no big deal. I'm looking at the clip. I'm like, okay, no big deal. Like, okay, they either three, they're down two. They still got a foul. They got to foul the nets. right? Joe Harris, you know, he's probably going to throw it to Kevin. He's probably going to throw the ball to Kevin Durant, right? Kevin's going to hit a free throw. They're going to win the game, right? Joe Harris throws the ball, like, completely away, right?

Like, Kevin's going one way. He throws it straight to a wizard's defender, gets the ball to Russell Westbro. Russell Westbrook's at a three. Boston Wizards end up winning a game, right? we all know that the Wizards, let's go with the Wizards first. We all know the Wizards are going through stuff.

I mean, you have, we talked about this with Perk last week. Russell Westbrook's not playing well. He has injuries. Bradley Bill's playing phenomenal, but it doesn't matter. Does this win, is this a kind of win that, like, galvanizes the team? No. I'm over here trying to, I'm trying to get my Disney story right. I'm trying to get my, I'm just trying, does this, can this galvanize a team to be able to get to an eighth seed or all is forgiven?

Because Bradley Beal, you know, was part of a big time win like this. This is Calvinize a team, Roger. Can I go now? Negative. No. That's a negative. Did you, you're on Twitter, right? You're a, you're a tweeter.

You're a Twitter. You're a Twitter. I am on Twitter. I'm on Twitter. Not very good, by the way. But you tweet. Did you see the tweet that was going around? last night with Bradley Beal as he wasn't being used in offensive possessions.

Did you see his body language? Did you see the way he was like standing? Now he's still at 37, right? He's still at 37. But did you see the disgust that was like emanating from his pores? Like you could, it's like one of those. Like you could see his soul like leaving his body every time he didn't touch the ball and just judging what was going on out there.

He is done with that. that is a rat. Like the win was a good win for Washington. I would tell you that Cleveland just popped Brooklyn twice and I don't know who else it was, but they should have popped them. Was it Atlanta? Someone else should have beat them. So it's not like you beat the Lakers, but you beat, you beat Brooklyn and that's a good win for you guys. But to answer your question about whether that galvanizes the troops and they can now ride off into the sunset on this magical playoff run, Bradley Beale is now bought in and all is forgiven by him, that's a negative. It's not, it don't, it doesn't work like that.

Too much has been done. Like you can't, you know, put that toothpaste back into two. So wins just doesn't matter. Like, there's nothing that you feel like it's salvageable in this Bradley Bill situation. Not a win. Here's the deal. Like Bradley Bill, um, has not come out and done it to Sean Watson and said that he wants to leave, right?

Now, everything about Bradley Bill, um, Bradley Bill's body language and, and, and the way he's conducting himself sometimes during timeouts as he sat over there on the scores table when everyone else was engaged. The no dapping of players as he's coming off the court at times, and dudes looking around like, damn, dog, like, all that suggests to me that Bradley Beale does not want to be in Washington, but he has not come out and said that. And so, I mean, there's a chance that if Washington as an organization is not going to move him and he's just got to be there, that they can play better basketball. And, you know, if Russ is Russ, you would think in theory, they should be a formidable opponent every night.

Like you have a chance to win a game. But I don't think that the overall attitude of Bradley Beal is going to be changed by a few wins. What is the checklist of a player that's checked out? What are the signs? I mean, I can speculate. I've seen a lot of players that I thought checked out. But someone that's in there, what are the characteristics of that, somebody that's checked out? First, to the general public, it would be the rumblings, right?

Like it would be, you know, sources say, right? someone's leaking this information, like where there's smoke, a lot of times there's fire. So like, okay. Y'all be trying to tell us there's no fire, though. Stop. I'm just committed to the team and I'm ready to go and I've never said anything. Because you guys are really quick to paint a picture and a narrative. We talked about this last week.

So like we have to play the role, which is like, nah, we're good. Like what's popping? But my home boy's on the other line telling someone else, hey man, like he doesn't want to be here. So that would be number one. Logan, number two, like when you're in that locker, room with said player. Body language, you know, whether he's got energy. You know, if you're an energetic guy who's usually kind of leading the room and, you

know, you've got a charismatic personality and guys want to be around you, once you start to withdraw, like, and you're not engaged with us in conversation or in jokes or in, you know, cool shit that usually takes place in a locker room, boom, big red, red flag, right? Like with withdrawn kind of sunken into yourself in game like the non-dapping of teammates. That's real. That's real, dog. Like you start, you start, we've reached a place now if you're not, if you're not dapping us up when you come off the bill off the court that this is bigger than the organization now.

Like if this is starting to. Are you saying like if I don't give you a bow in real life, then we got funk? Is that what you're saying right now? Like if I don't give you an elbow or like a or like a dab this funk, is that what you mean? That means I'm mentally checked out of the. the real ones? It means, yes, I would have to talk to T and Sasha and see if, like, Logan Murdoch would be better off elsewhere, dog.

Like, like, we're going to be trained. We got to see if, we got to see what we could get for Logan, dog. Like, does Perk want to come mess with me on Realwood? Like, I don't know. I might just facilitate that train. This is going to good at the real one. Just like, I'd perk. Just take this, bro.

But, but, I mean, you could see it in that video, Logan. Like, you're talking about physical appearance. like lack of interest, real talk, terrible body language when other players have the ball or you're not involved. Like we talked about last week, I might not love my situation, but I can't let that affect the way I deal with Logan or I deal with Sasha or the rest of the people on my team when we're in these games. And once it starts to infect that arena with body language and the like, I think you have

a problem. And those are the signs that you're looking for. So what do you tell up, like say you're, if you're Bradley Bill's teammate, right? And I mean, by all intensive purposes, like, Bradley's been good through all this. I mean, of course, like, he's checked out. But come on, man. Like, it's clear that he should be moved.

Like, I feel bad for him every single time I see, right? Like, I feel bad for him. Yeah. However, he's still like, you know, you saw the clip last night where he's just standing and it just looks like he's just, his soul is out of his body, bro. Like, he's just like, I'm checked out. So as a teammate, how do you, how do you kind of, you know,

get through those. How do you get through that as alongside a player that is playing like that or that is acting like that? What do you do? That's a tough question because, you know, the first thing I think you should do is give the player his space. And I want to be clear. I'm with you. Like, I'm not judging Bradley, Bill. I'm not saying he was, you know, wrong for any of that.

That's, you asked me the signs that you would be looking for. Those are clear indicators and signs, right? Like, I'm not mad at Bradley, though. I think I would give him some space, bro. Like, clearly he's going through some stuff. You're probably more aware of the situation and the ins and outs and particulars than we are from the outside looking in. So I give him some space for a minute. And then at a point, like maybe like today, like after a win or maybe we accrue a couple wins, like just, hey, dog, you want to grab, like, hey, let's grab lunch real quick.

Let's grab a coffee. let's what's going on with you dog like hear him out like let him vent it like let somebody it's like it's a relationship bro like let him know that you're listening and you care and you want what's best for them um and then you know once he makes his his his his pitch or he vents it you know he's like listen bro i got it and we support you like you know if you if you really want to be somewhere else like you know we support you the thing is like we're all here together right like and we're trying to make the most of this so like how can we do that and at the same time support you You know what I mean?

Like kind of put the ball in his core with that. I sound like a good teammate because some teammates would feel like, man, you think I'm trash, bro? You don't think I'm trash? You don't think I'm good enough? You don't think we're good enough? Be careful. Hey, listen, if you, be careful what you ask for, right?

Like, don't do that because the mom, he might say, yeah, I do think you're trash? So I'm not approaching anyone like that. Like, that's not. Hey, Brad, hey, Brad, Brad, Brad, do you think I'm, do you think we're trash? Do you think I'm trash? Yes. And you're opening the door for the disrespect. Correct.

So, like, first of all, there are levels to this shit, like everything. Like, unless you're Russ in that locker room, you know damn well that you are at least one level, if not multiple levels below Bradley Beale. So don't pose that question to him. Let that man know, hey, dog. Have some self-awareness.

We mess with you, bro. I mean, some NBA players do not have self-awareness. So I'm just, you know. Oh, it's a common fault in the NBA. It's common fault in pro sports in general, though. More in life. I mean, yeah, I guess you got to have a lack of self-aware. Like to have that confidence where, you know, you can miss nine shots in a row and then shoot the next nine, like nothing happened.

Like the lack of self-awareness is kind of critical in that equation, right? Like you kind of have to be a little goofy up there. But, but I mean, hey, man, like it's a tough situation. All you can do is try to be there for him, give them a little space, and then when the time's right, hear him out. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So we both agree. Do you think that he's going to,

do you think he's going to be on the team this year? Do you think Brad Bill's going to finish the season out on the, on the, on the wizards? I don't. And it feels like it's untenable because it feels like when, you know, because even guys at first,

nowadays, like, feels like guys who even on their contract, like contractors don't even necessarily matter, man. Like, if you want out, player has a lot of power and leverage.

We just saw that with James Hardin for better or worse, right? So, I think he does get traded. Maybe he doesn't have enough leverage to maybe get, or shit, maybe he does have enough leverage to get traded where he wants. James Harder got traded to where he wanted to go. So I don't know where this goes. I don't know where he gets traded.

I think at some point he's just going to have to just ask for it, man. I mean, maybe he hasn't come out that he has acts for it, but it feels untenable right now, Roger. They need to do the right thing, man. Washington, you've had demand on a trade-in block, at least rumored, you've been rumored to have had him on the trade-in-block

for how many years now, Logan? How many would you say around the trade deadline? Three, four years maybe? All right? Like you've had him on a block. Most of his career there? Yeah.

Correct. And now you're at a point where you're looking out if I'm a general manager. I've sat in those, I've sat in there. Like David Griffin before, before I was hired to work

with the Cleveland Cavaliers in their front office, I was working at Fox Sports and Griff asked if I would come out to Cleveland a few times to just take a look at body language. They were trying to figure out if they had to fire Mike Brown. Right.

And so you had Kyrie, you had Dion Waiters, you had other players in there. LeBron and camp weren't there yet. So I flew up and I sat with Griff, just behind the scenes, you know, drinking coffee, like watching the team. And I could tell. I said to Griff, I said, you got fire him.

Like, I like Mike. I think he's a great coach. I was like, I'm not debating any of that. But they are tuned out. None of them are invested in what he's talking about. at that point, like, you're going to have to make a move, Griff. Like, and I don't know that that was the reason Griff made the move, but that was my feedback to Griff in that, you know, I don't know,

role that I was playing, like a consultant type of role. So, like, as a front office person, you're sitting, you see Bradley Beale. Like, I'm watching that. Like, yeah, he's still producing, but I see everything about him and I'm behind the scene. So I probably see him in practice looking like he don't want to be there and all that. Like, do the right thing. He's been there. He's done his job.

He's, he's never had a beef. He's never come out and acted a fool in the media and he's still producing. Do the right damn thing. Yeah. When you talk about body language, that was interesting when you talk about, you know, how that can, you know, manifest and practice and things like that. Is that why a guy needs to get traded? Is that why?

Because it can infiltrate a locker room and it can kind of mess things up. I'm not saying Brad. Brad is all, everything we've seen has been relatively chill during this, during this time, right? But can that infiltrate a locker room into the fabric of a locker room if someone is frustrated to that point? Yeah, it definitely can. And we had this conversation a few weeks ago about James Hardin and you having someone in your locker room. Now, look, Bradley Bill has not conducted himself in a way that would make me think that he would go in there and make a, you know, just make a mockery of the whole situation. Yeah, I don't think he's going to do that.

He doesn't seem to be that kind of guy. But, I mean, the general disinterest that he showed in the game, if that's carrying over into practice, I mean, that in and of itself can kind of rub off and be a problem and create friction where you don't need it. And I would just double down again on he's been a model citizen by all accounts the whole time he's been there. He's never gotten to a point like this, no matter how bad it's been. And they've had some lean years there in Washington, like as of late. Bradley Beals never acted like this. if you're seeing him start to show these, like, you know, show, show these mannerisms and have this type of body language, you should know if you know Bradley Bill well enough and been around him that something is really, really wrong and it's probably not repairable.

Like, it's probably time to let him go. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I agree with you. I think he should, you know, they should trade him at some point. To the other side of this, Roger. Mm-hmm. The Brooklyn Nets.

They're second in the east, you know. They're doing, they seem more. to be, you know, working out some of the Kings at least, but they're the team that lost after having an

18-point lead. How does, and I feel like this is something that we talk, we talk about the Brooklyn Nets almost every podcast and there's always one of those teams, right?

Every year that we just talk about more than others, they get a bit more scrutiny. What kind of scrutiny is this Brooklyn Nets team deserve at this point? and if you're the Brooklyn Nets, you're very new,

you have three superstars or, you know, arguably three superstars. And you're trying to figure this out. What kind of scrutiny do they deserve? All of the scrutiny. They deserve all of the scrutiny right now. Like, you know what you have in the Lakers

with LeBron and AD. And I'm talking about like stars. I'm talking about like guys who are faces of the, league, right? So then, you know, the next, the next biggest conversation is always, it's Kevin Duran, right? Like he is, it's Kevin Duran. So Kevin, coming off of an injury, his first year back, and then pairing him with Karee who missed most of last year, already, Logan, like, you're going to get a ton of damn scrutiny. And you should, right? Because you're putting those two together and it's championship robust. You add Steve Nash to the mix, you know, and the debate around whether or not,

like, you know, that was a good hire, more scrutiny. And, like, should be. Like, it's, I think Steve, I happen to think he'll do a great job there. They'll figure it out. But scrutiny comes with that and it's deserved. Then you pull the trigger on James Hardin, dog. Like, what are we talking about? Like, you're going to be scrutinized all year, whether you like it or not.

Most of those guys know how to live in that space. But it's deserved. Like, they have to be, that's the way this league works, dog. Yeah. Well, no, I've seen it on that side. And I mean, I've seen, you know, covering gold to say covering Kevin, you know, every, it just seems like when you have teams like this, and I don't even know if the nets are covered like the Warriors were, at least not yet. I'm not sure. But when I just remember, even like the most, the smallest mundane thing got a lot of scrutiny, right? Like you're sending this guy to the G League. What's going on? What's happening? You know, somebody's not playing.

Oh, what's up? Is he injured? Is it? What? Is he going to be out for a long time? Or just, you know, and even the stuff that happened with, you know, Kevin and Dre, you know, it just seems like a lot of scrutiny. You've been around a team with a lot of scrutiny. The 2015 calves, a lot of scrutiny there. What is it like, I know what it is from, you know, covering that level of scrutiny. What is it like being inside the belly of the beast when there is a lot going on?

Yeah, that's a really good question. You want to create an environment that insulates guys from the scrutiny. Now, you got to go do your media. You know what I mean? Like, that's a requirement that you're going to have to do. But what you'd like to do is foster an environment in your building that is so family-oriented, so protective of one another, that you feel like there's some insulation there, right? Both coach and general manager have to be willing to take bullets, so to speak. more so your general manager, I think, take a couple of bullets and put some stuff on yourself.

Like we had this conversation about resting guys. Like this is our call. This is not LeBron's call. Like we're resting LeBron. So LeBron doesn't catch the scrutiny in that. You know what I'm saying? So you want to insulate the team from that. And you have to take the approach that none of the only thing that matters, the only narrative that matters is the one that we create in this building. Anything fabricated outside of this building is of no consequence. should not affect us. If you're going to be reading shit and let that affect the way you come to work and do your job, we have a problem, right? Because that's other people's creation. Like what we do in this building and amongst ourselves is what matters the most and will dictate ultimately how far we go. The rest of that is just noise.

How well, because this was a year when, excuse me, this is a year when, you know, you have a new coach, bronze first year back in Cleveland. Um, you guys don't, get off to a great start that year. Right. You know, everybody's working out the kinks. They're figuring out their roles. Like it seems,

it looks like a team that all of a sudden is like, oh, man, we just got LeBron. I don't know if we have the infrastructure yet for LeBron, but we have him. He's here. Um, what was the hardest part of that year for you?

Because you guys, I don't know how, in hindsight, I don't know how you guys got to the finals at here, man. Like, it was you guys going at run midseason. But, right,

you know, it didn't look great. Even with Kevin, level on the team with Kyrie on the team with LeBron on the team. How did you guys get through? And what was the hardest part first? What was the hardest part of that season? That's another good question. It was tough early, Logan, because LeBron wasn't himself. You know, you could tell that physically he had went on a vegan diet, I think, that that year, it's the year he lost all that weight. And he didn't physically look like himself. You know, that that was difficult.

And then, you know, we wound up having to trade a few pieces. Like we were trying to figure out how Dion worked in that equation and whether he could be the six-man and buy into that role. And if he wasn't, like, what pieces could we get? And so, you know, JR and Amman came in and did a great job. But I think the hardest part that year was getting everyone to trust each other, right? Like just getting everyone to trust each other. I remember, you know, for a while there, Kevin. you know, LeBron had made some comments about Kevin in the media

would like, don't fit in, like fit out. It was something like that, right? And, you know, I remember being on the road, like, because Griff didn't have traveled. So we're in L.A., right? And I'm on the road. And we're like in a funky type of, like, vibe. Well, your L.A. trips are trash, bro.

Just historically speaking, like, when you talk about, you know, the playoffs in L.A., you talk about. You know what I mean? Just like, didn't you get traded when you were in L.A.? I got traded in L.A. at the Beverly Wilshire. Yes, I did. Yeah, I'm just saying, like, that is a bad omen.

I don't want to go to L.A. with you. So we're on that trip. It's funky. We come up with the idea to have, like, instead of practice, let's take the team to like this cool, like, bowling alley slash lounge and let's just have an afternoon together, right? So we're going to load up the buses. We're going to take everybody out and just let off a little stuff.

steam, bro. Like, Kevin loved, I get a call. He don't want to come. I'm like, what? You know, what's going on? So I call Griffin, we chop it up. He's like, you got to get him, you have to get him on the reservation dog. So, you know, I call Kevin. We chop it up. And, you know, the thing was like, hey, man, like, this isn't going to help the situation. Like, we, we have to trust and we all have to buy in. Like, and, you know, it's going to require some of us letting our guard down. And it makes you vulnerable. Like, I get it. But unless we all show a little vulnerability to each other, like, no one's ever going to let that, that guard down. And there's no trust that's going to be established. So Kev ultimately showed up. He wasn't in a great mood. Like, you know what I mean? And it wasn't

like he was the happiest cat in the bowling alley that day, but he showed up. And that was a gesture of goodwill because dudes knew he wasn't really happy. Do you know what I'm saying? And then, you know, kind of after that, things started rolling. It sparked it. Like the trust. No, he wasn't happy. Did that help? Did that help his relationship with LeBron in your eyes? I'd like to think so because, you know, it would have been real easy for Kev to be like, nah, dog, I'm not, I'm not coming to that shit.

Like, I'm feeling it however I'm feeling. I don't know what was going on behind the scenes in terms of, you know, those guys' personal relationship, but it could have been easy for him to do that. And if you do that and you choose to do that, you're basically saying, like, I'm not, I'm not part of this. Like, I don't, I choose not to be a part of this. And I'd like to think that Kev kind of saying, all right, man, I'm going to take one for the team,

even though I'm not in the best mind, the best headspace right now and whatever's going on, like, I'm going to show up. And, you know, he gave himself up. And I think that Katz appreciated that. And we started to build that trust. And so by the end of the season, those guys trusted each other. Yeah. What is, you're talking about chemistry right now.

Does it take those losses like the Brooklyn that's just had right? right now. It ain't the end of the world. Man, I still think Brooklyn is still a contender. This doesn't change that. It was just to one of them losses. But does it take moments like this to build that type of chemistry?

Sometimes maybe like a bad quote or something. And if a team responds to a well, does that help? Does some of those bad moments help make good moments? Absolutely. If you have the right mix of people, you're going to need to be tested. like both physically and emotionally throughout a season, right?

And physically, I mean, being some battles, like, you know, on the court, overtime, pull it out, you know, seven down with three minutes to go. You know what I mean? Like those type of wars that test your medal and you either win or you don't. But emotionally, it's going to take stuff like that. Like, it's going to take the really tough heartbreaking loss that is Logan's fault. And everyone knows it's Logan's fault. But no one will put Logan under the bus.

Why can be Roger's stuff? Maybe it was Raj's fault. Maybe it was his fault. Roger can't have a defensive lapse. Huh? Why got to be me? I don't say. I could have missed it three, but no defensive laps.

No, no, no. We're not going to do that. But, like, yes, to your, like, to answer your question, it takes those. It takes, you know, you and I, like, we're brothers. That's a family. I talked about establishing, like, a family type of, right? Yeah, straight up.

And so, like, we might beef. We might get sideways. We might not fuck with each other for a couple days. But at the end of the day, we got to come back together and figure out like, hey, man, neither one of us is going anywhere. And we still have a chance to do this. And when you, you know, you heal those wounds, it's like a muscle. You tear the fiber, right?

And it's torn for a minute. But when it heals, it's bigger and it's stronger. Like, so that's what that does for a locker room. Damn, you should be like an AAU coach or something, or like a high school coach or something. That was pretty, you see that? I was kind of fire. But I feel like that's the difference between a good team or a bad team and a good. team, right? And a well-run, you know,

club versus a not-row one club, because you're going to have those moments no matter what team your type of team you're on. I think the good teams are the ones that can galvanize from these moments. The other teams that are bad, that don't have infrastructure, they check out. They're like, well, like,

fuck that, motherfucker. How about that? I'm going to get minds. I'm going to contract here. I'm going to get fuck up out of here. It's a fracturing of the locker room is what happens at that point. Like, with bad teams, right? Everyone kind of everyone commiserates to their to their camp I don't see even bad teams let's say bad cultures

because I've seen bad teams have great chemistry yeah that's probably a better way to describe it's like bad cultures yep um I think that Kevin Durant Kyrie and James Hardin actually have a head start on a lot of those teams that came together like those big threes and stuff because they're friends like you know what I mean like it was kind of like LeBron and D. Wade

like there was already a genuine friendship there No, no, no. So I mean like in terms of being able to navigate the bad stuff, the chemistry off the court, right? There's a genuine like for one another there. I just, I'm going to say it again, Logan. I don't like to keep beating a dead horse, but it's got to be beat. Defensively, they have to do something. Whether it's personnel driven or it's, it's, you know, a scheme. Like something has to change there. They cannot, you cannot give up 140, was it 149 points they gave up? Like, what, like you can't be, you can't do that. You can't do that. You can't do that. And then in the next breath, say, hey, are their favorite to win a championship? No, they can't be until they get that figured out. Yeah, I think also what helps is, you know, you said the head start in friendship,

but also these guys all played together this summer. Like, they all were hooping in L.A. this summer. Same team, you know, working out together. That builds camaraderie, too. And I think this is one thing where, like, Kevin's in the middle of this where he's like, He's good friends with James. He's also great friends with Kyrie.

And he's one of those guys where he's going to have, I think that Kevin is going to have to just be more in a leadership role this year. Just because he's good with both of those guys and those guys don't know each other as well. You know what I mean? You know him better than me. I don't really know him. You've seen him on a day in and day out. Now, while his role was probably not that in Golden State, that probably fell to who?

That was more Steph in Golden State? Draymond, probably. Draymond, Draymond, Andre Wadala, too. The warriors were in a case where their leadership obviously was a star players, but more of it, like their heartbeat was also, you know, Sean Livingston, Andre Goudalla, Draymond Green. It happens like that a lot. It happens like that a lot.

But so my question to you would be, and I asked Steve Nash this question, because he knows him well too, right? And so I'd ask Steve about like leadership styles and stuff like that. And so my question to you is like, does Ken, Kevin, who seems like a pretty quiet and reserved dude, I know he's got a personality. I just don't know what it is. But like, does he, is he able to do that? Like, is he comfortable in that in that seat? I think so.

I think he just does it in a very, you know, like how when I say drank. mine and and And Andre, like, those are the guys that's going like, get on motherfuckers. Like, hey, bro, do this right now. Like, do this. Yeah. I think that Kevin is the leader where, you know, he will hold people accountable. But I think Kevin is a leader where he shows by example, but also, you know, he'll, you know, cop a rook some stuff. You know what I mean? Like, take a rook under his wing and, like, put an arm around him and things like that. I think that that's more of what Kevin does to younger guys and to help out.

with leadership and stuff like that when he is in that role, I think. He's not the bombastic leader, this guy. It's just like, oh, you know, and there's different leadership styles, and he's the one that kind of just puts his arm around folks and just holds down, like the younger dudes on the low, like, yo, what you need here, here, here. Yeah, I think that's what it is. That's, you know, that's really important, too. I do think, and I had said this to Nash, like, real early in the process, like,

I thought, this was pre James Hardin. I don't know him really either, so he may be the dude I'm talking about in this equation. You need the Andrea Godala. And I told Steve, like, I don't know what your cap situation looks like or any of that, but, you know, if you're looking for any of his saying that they needed more veteran presence and stuff, I said you got like, Andre Aguadala is a name, right? Like if there's a way you can swing that because you need.

He's already in Miami. That's not happening. He just got that bag in Miami. So that was. No, I know. I know. But my point was like to him, whoever. can represent like that type of personality in your locker room that's available.

I think they need that. Like, you know, to pair with all of that talent and all of that stuff, you need the dude that's going to be the rock, the dude that's going to sit there and be like, no, I've done this before. Like, here's how it works. And we all got to buy into that. Let me echo the coach's sentiments right now. Like, you're not doing X, Y, and Z.

And I need you to do ABC. Like, you have to have that guy in the locker. It does not have to be KD. it doesn't have to be Kyrie or James Harder, but someone has to play that role on a team. Yeah, I don't see, I don't know that part, right? Because you have really, you know, maybe Kyrie,

but I don't know, man. Like, we've seen what happened with this year. No. But James Harder is also like an understated dude when it comes to that type of stuff, right? He's not like some type of bad thing leader either. So that's going to be interesting to find that guy in the locker room that's like,

you know, that can kind, it's also another thing, right? because there's superstar players and then you have these guys that are not superstar players. So I feel like you need those really good players in the middle, like an Andre Godala, to talk to those younger guys

because they haven't been more of understanding what those younger guys are going through than maybe a super duper duper star, right? Well, yes, but I think, you know, you're also looking for a guy who's close enough to the stars level who can not just like hold a younger guy accountable, but say to the star,

Like, look, bro, not tonight. Like, this, no. You know what I'm saying? Like, we suck on defense right now. This shit stops right now, first quarter. We need to wake up. You know, someone... The fuck stops here.

Correct. You need someone who can do that, like, for a Kyrie and a KD and a James Hardin as well. When it needs to be done. I'm not talking about, like, 20 out of 82 games. It may only be three games that really means something to you. But there's got to be someone there that has that DNA, you know, in my opinion.

Yeah, I think that, I think the Brooklynettes are going to be fine, man. There's a couple trades left. I mean, I think that are to be at. I think they'll be fine. Cool. Play some damn, do you, but I get some defensive players. That's what I know. Sean Mark, you take your ass out there and get some more offense.

And I mean, you take your ass out there and get some more offense. We got a problem, bro. There's rumors that they're going to get JJ Redick. That's all, is what I'm saying. So I don't think there's defense is going to be at a premium. But, you know, but you just go score 170 damn points a game? I mean, you know, you're from the Mike Dan, Tony, era as long as the other team has

160 points. I'm salty. I'm salty. I'm gonna tell you why I'm mad. I'm mad. I'm gonna tell you why I'm mad. I'm gonna tell you why I'm mad. Because we never won shit in Phoenix doing that. We didn't. We didn't win shit. Like we were a fun team to watch, but we didn't win shit. And I'm not saying it's anyone's fault. It's

just a fact. Like we didn't win when we didn't defend. And we weren't a good defensive team. And Sean Marks knows that better than anybody because he was in the San Antonio school. They defended, dog, like they locked down and they were dope offensively. Stop going out there looking for offensive shit. You don't need any more.

You need some defense. You need some, okay, if they can shoot and defend, cool, but you don't need any more offense, dog. You need defense. So the Matt Hooper is here, right? He's always here. It's just what I'm with the Matt Hooper, right? And I want to know,

how did it feel to be a plus defender? not plus defensive team. How do that feel? To be like, yo, I'm one of the best defenders in the league, but our team defense is shot. How does it?

And like we, not shot, but that is not our calling card right now. Like, how did that make you feel? At times, it was really frustrating, Logan.

Like, really frustrating because, you know, in fairness to Mike, like we had game plans, defensive game plans. Like we, you know,

one like we were just out there throwing the ball out and just saying we're going to outscore you all the time. We had assignments. Like we had jobs to do. We had a bunch of mofos that for one reason or another at times weren't really interested in doing their assignment. And that's frustrating for people who are out there trying to,

to the best of you're going to mess up every, like there are a handful of plays in a game that you just pencil in as being F-ups because no one could get them all right. But overall, like you've got to be putting forth real effort, both physically and mentally to get this shit right. And if I can tell that you're not doing it, that and I'm out here trying to do it and I've wasted all this energy both mentally and physically and you just go stand there and watch him lay it up I got a beef when do you decide

whether or not you get pissed on a defensive switch because sometimes I see players like when there's a clear like defensive laps they'll just say next play next play or then sometimes you're like fuck and they're just cursing and stuff like when do you differentiate if a player misassignment where you're going to yell at them or not yeah that's that's that's tough um I would say that, you know, defense, we're all, they used the term, like, on a string. Have you heard that? Like, we're on a string. So, like, if I have to pull off of my assignment to help, you know, you, then I'm trusting that Sasha is going to pull off of her immediate assignment to help me. She's going to get that close out. Sasha's going to get that close out.

And then somebody's got to crack down on the big to make sure that he doesn't get the offensive rebound if your big comes across. TD got that. So, right, we're on a string. Typically, the ones I think that made me the most upset is when I did my job in a helping capacity right? Like I did my job to help and no one did their job behind me to help. That sucks because you're like, you know, again, I mean, we all take pride in this shit.

Like, I don't ideally want my man to sit over there and knock down 30. You know what I mean? But I'm stepping off of him to help something else. So if you're the next guy, defense is only as strong as your weakest link. It's cliche, but it's true. So if you just have no interest in doing your damn job, I'm going to start getting heated over that. That's the play that people get angry about.

Okay. All right. That was fun, man. Let's take a quick break because I have some questions about a team close to Roger right now. Got some questions. We'll be back. Hey, I've got to take a minute to shout out the fan dual sports book. They found the perfect way for everyone to get on the action this Sunday.

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And we're back. And I want to talk about the Miami Heat, which is, you know, near and dear to Raj's heart close to where he's at right now. Near and Deer is pushing it, bro. Is it pushing it? Pushing it. If it wasn't for the Miami Heat, you wouldn't have met Michael Jordan.

Facts. Okay, go ahead. Continue. Carry on. For sure. Anyway, so they are not playing well. They are near the bottom of the Eastern Conference right now. This was a team.

I'm not sure if you remember, Roger, but was in the finals. Jimmy Butler, story of the playoffs, Miami Heat were. Not so much right now. And we can say we can point to the quick turnaround. We talk about Avery Bradley injuries, just injuries all around right now. The hell is going on. Can they write the ship? Are they a contender in your eyes?

Are they? No. They're not a contender. Can they figure it out enough to be a contender? Can they do this? Can they remember they were the darlings. They were my favorite team in the bubble last year. This is going to sound nonsensical, right?

It's going to say because it's going to just sound ridiculous. But I didn't think they were contender last year. That's fair. That's not even ridiculous. That's not ridiculous. But I didn't. And even when they were like doing what they were doing, they kept proving me wrong and eventually I had to hop on the bandwagon

because it was just really cool to watch. But they should not have like by all accounts like, there. If you weren't, I would, if you weren't in that bubble, they would not have been there last year. I think I can say that. I'm pretty sure that's, it was funny. You're going to probably cut off the Zoom call and probably never do it at Rowans again. But they reminded me of the, the 05, 06 sentence in a lot of ways, right? Because you're down a star. You know what I mean? I wouldn't, if you looked at team on paper, I'm not saying that they're going to the Western Conference final, which you guys did. I was not expecting that. I think that's fair.

the overachieve. I saw in your face, you were about to like, yo, what are you talking about right now? You know, you athletes skits, you guys get weird,

but you know what I mean? No, we got rode off as soon as, as soon as Amari was out. We were written off. Like, that's fast.

Right. So, but, and so, and I see that also with, you know, the, oh,

07, sons too, right? And they're, you know, you guys played really well. You guys won 55 games that year.

Next year, you won 46. It wasn't the same. You guys weren't a, a power, normal. It should change for the Phoenix Suns then. How hard is it to repeat a performance from the previous season? You know, when you do have those expectations like, oh man, well, Phoenix Sun's out here balling right now. Oh, the Miami is he here ball and they could be a Bam out

of Biles playing really well right now. He's coming into his own. In theory, this team should be better than it is, right? What happens? How hard is it to, you know, live up to those expectations is after a good year. Yeah, it's, it's, it's super, it's super hard. I mean, it's, it's, you know, but in fairness to the Miami heat, like we had, we were getting back a star in Amaristademeyer in some in that case that you're referring to, right? Like, and then we were afforded a whole offseason to really dedicate ourselves to like getting healthy, um, and working on whatever part of our game that we needed to work on to be better in our roles with the team the next year. Like the heat haven't really had any of that. Like they're not really, you know, this offseason

was quirky and really, you know, weird at best. And so I want to be fair to the heat. I think, you know, what happened to the heat was if they don't go on that run last year, I think you're talking about a different heat team right now. You know what I mean? I think you're talking about a hungry or gift and a curse. It was. You're talking about a hungry or more dialed in heat team than the one that made it to the finals last year and thought they were already kind of at the promised land in my opinion not all of them but some of them seem to think that you know we we've arrived like we've made it already and that is really really really dangerous um you know you have to stay hungry and stay razor sharp razor focused and i think they were you know they were ahead of

their they were before their time they were ahead of schedule they were ahead of schedule and so i really do think making the finals last year just put some of those doing those doing in a place where they're not they didn't approach it the same way they would if they hadn't have made it and then you didn't have the whole offseason so this is what you're dealing with so you think they should have instead like would have been better they lost in the western conference finals or they lose in the second run that might have been better for them is what you say yeah eastern conference finals still could give you a little air of like hey we're nice we're tough we're tough you know what I mean like I think I mean they did they sweat be honest bro

they swept them but even that like that's a flaw with the bucks I didn't see that as You know, and I don't mean to like marginalize what the heat did. But like I thought that said more about the bucks and what they need to figure out than I bought into the heat just being this phenomenal like basketball team, right? A sweep? Do you know what I'm saying? Like a sweep, Logan? Like the sweep in and of itself in that round is an anomaly. So you won't have me believe that it is because the Miami Heat are just this, this like all time team.

I didn't buy that. I thought it showed the flaws and they really like were able to attack the flaws in Janus's game. But even getting to that point, I think there's a level for especially young players of like, yo, dog, like, yes, we're, yes, we're on South Beach. Like, we're the heat. We're tough. We got the pink unis. Like, we're doing this.

We're, you know, and you buy into that. And you just take your eye off the prize for a second. It doesn't mean you can't find it again. The heat have a culture that I would put up against anyone. You think it's a part of them filling themselves or all the above, all everything coming? I think it all plays into it, dog. The injuries. the lack of true offseason, the bubble experience, and the success that you had in it,

and maybe feeling yourself a little bit. I think when you put all of that in a pot, you wind up with kind of what's going on now. Everything weighs into that. The heat have a culture again that I would put up against anyone's in the NBA, like even the Spurs, who I think do a phenomenal job with culture. Heat culture, heat way is a thing. You develop that, especially for new players in your system, over an off season.

If that off season is like shortened or abbreviated, like you don't have the same amount of time. So I imagine that he continue to get better as they continue to be indoctrinated, at least some of them into the way that he want to do things. No finals this year? No, no repeat. No, no contention this year.

Are they pretenders? Pretenders, right? They're not even in the conversation right now. They're not. And that's okay. I'm not saying that they won't be a playoff team and won't be like a tough out for some people, but I don't think they're contenders, no.

Yeah. We'll see what happens, man. No, absolutely. I don't think they were contenders last year. That's why they were my favorite team. Right. Team full of real ones last year. Real ones, facts.

Real. There was something that I saw yesterday. You're enjoying that. Whatever that is, you've got a smile on your face, bro. You're about to have a good time. You put it in the chat. So Aaron Gordon and Kyle Lauer got into it. yesterday.

And I told, and I brought it up to you before the show and you're like, so? So what happened was, I would say, you know,

Kyle Lowry's running down the floor and Aaron Gordon gave him a little love tap to the chest, where was it to? What would you say it was to her? It was to the chest. To the chest, man.

All right, okay. All right. Give him a little love tap, right? This was in response to the bubble when Kyle Lowry gave Aaron Gordon

the little love tap, right? Is that, is that fair game, man? It's like, how does that, is that, you just got to show that, does you have to do that? You just got to eat that fine and let that happen, Roger? Is that, is that what's popping in these streets?

Is that, is that how it is in the league sometimes where you just got to just show like, yo, don't fuck with me. Bro, I am a firm believer in staking your ground and not letting someone get an inch. I can't allow it. Let me tell the story. me to make this. I'm in training camp with the Atlanta Hawks, right? This is my first year out

of college, right? Pretty much no chance to make that team. And I'm sitting at our dinner, team dinner. Lenny Wilkins talks, all these people talk, and we're sitting there. And God bless the soul, Lorenzen Wright sitting there, right? And I'm a rook. And I go to take some butter with my butter knife. You know the little balls of butter when you're at a real fancy place. So I go to get one with my butter knife to put on my bread. And Lorenzen Wright quickly reaches for his knife and scrapes my butterball off my knife. And I'm like, he said like, he said some, I don't remember verbatim, but it was basically, let me get that rook.

I have no problem with rookie duties, dog, but you've now crossed the line. You've now crossed the line. I'm a damn grown man, bro. I'm sitting here. I'm a grown man. So I pushed the table and got up and was like, yo, bro, what, what you want to do, dog? Like, that shit's not going to happen. And they had to calm me down

because they're like, yo, bro, they're going to have you out of here tomorrow. But that was what I always was built. Like, you're not going to just do that to me. So like KG, like, KG was one that was going to give you one just to see who you were. And I remember coming off of something and he shot me one and looked at me like,

okay, what's you going to do? And they're testing you. It's just a test. Doesn't mean he's a bad dude, but they want to see who you are. So the next time down, I try to fold him in his solar plexes, with an elbow. Like, you didn't even see me coming, bro. Like, the screen was there, and I made no play

to get around it. Just take this shit. And you know what I didn't have with KG, no ma? Ain't no fault. No problems. No problems. Was it to the point like, hey, how you doing? I'm like, hey, man, was leaving a dab up, that respect? Yeah, we were never cool, like, cool, but we never had, there was never a problem. You know what I mean? Like, and you have to get that shit straight on an NBA court. Like you do in life, in my opinion, like you don't, you don't, let somebody do that to you, bro. Listen, man. As Magdray would say,

I'm a grown-ass motherfucking man. And there's a few things you must understand. Yeah, that's what it is. That's what it is, man. We're not going to do that. Like, Amari and I had a moment, like, I got to the Sons. Nobody knew me in the Sons.

Steve was the only person I had played with, right? And so, you know, I come to camp, I don't know, a few days before camp starts, we're down in our gym. and something happens at the end of a game and like it's a call, everyone respects the call, and Amari is like, nah, like Debo in it.

Amari's my man, but Amari was like debaubing it. And I'm like, no, not, nope, nope, no, no, no, no, nah, I can't do it. Nope, not gonna happen. So, like, we got to MFing each other in there. Like, and people are looking around like, like, just Amari Stademeyer.

He's like, there people are like, uh-oh, uh-oh, don't do that, uh-uh. And I'm like, I'm right here. I'm like, fuck that. That shit ain't. not on my watch. Like, we ain't doing that. Like, that's not, you can't just Debo. You know, we're standing up.

And so Amari and I got past that. But David Griffin and Mike D. and Tony came over to me and they were like, oh, my God. No one's ever done that to Amari before. And I was like, I don't give a damn who it was. Like, could have been Amari. It could have been damn, I don't know, the president was. I don't give a shit.

Like, you ain't doing that to me. And so that's just the way I feel about situations like that. Now, it could get your ass cut, but there are times where people will appreciate it and be like, yo, my man, he stands up for himself. Is there a reality where it's like, y'all appreciate what you did? You got to pack your bag, bro. Absolutely. Absolutely, dog.

And again, like, hey. Self-awareness. You just got to know your spots, bro. You got to know who you are in that equation, bro. Yeah, man. They be trying to use that against you, though, like, you know, a star player might be like, fuck you're going to do. And, you know, I'm a training camping bike.

Oh, man. Derek Anderson used to be so mad at me in, like, Spurs camp, because I would be going so hard, and he just didn't want to go hard. And they ultimately cut me. You know what you got, though. You know what you got, though? Pop's saying that you're one of the real ones that the biggest regret. You know what I'm saying?

Pop is my guy. You know what I'm saying? But I think most stars, if I'm keeping it a buck, Logan, most stars are trying to see, they may not know it or not. Like, they may not. Like, they, but they ultimately want to see. see if they can ride with you or not. So even if you get into that funk and you get into that beef and you guys get the

fighting, at the end of the day, they respect that because they know when push comes to shove, like he's not going to let the opponent do that to him. Or he may not let the opponent do that to me. And I wasn't going to let nobody if I could take care of it. Nobody was fucking with Steve. Like nobody was fucking with Amari and Sean. Like if I had something to do with it, you know what I'm saying? I'm not saying I could whoop everybody, but I was going to put my chest out there

because that's, those were my dudes. I'm a try, though. Yeah, damn right. I rode with them. So I think they respect that at the end of the day. Let me ask you a question on another, same topic, but we didn't get to it last week. Joel Embed being crying about LeBron, like, putting two hands in his chest and thinking he should have been kicked out of the game, dog. Were you team LeBron or team Joelle Embed in that?

I just got to know. I think I'm team Bronn, bro. I don't want, reason why? Reason why? Like, I'm not going to advocate for somebody to get kicked out, bro. It's not. All right, you took the easy way out. Let me rephrase that.

Did he do, was the act egregious enough to warrant like the level of crying that Joel Embed put forth after the game? Now, the result was he landed on his ass. Like, that hurts. But did LeBron do anything that was like that egregious? No. All right. What about you?

What do you think? What do you think? No, man, like that. like, they're only going to be started me because they're going to call me old, they can call me grumpy,

they got to call me, like, back in my day. Like, we don't want the league to go back to that. Like, that was too much thuggery in the league.

It's on Twitter and now he's scared at a funk. Now he's scared of what the Mitch is going to say. Nah, but that was two hands in your chest with the light push.

The end result was unfortunate. You felt, I don't want to see anyone get hurt, but I didn't think that that rose to the level of like an ejection. Like, come on, dog.

Like, if that's where we're at as players now, that's my beast. I just don't like what I'm not going to advocate for nobody getting. Right. Getting ejected, bro. It's not, no. No, that's my answer. I'm not advocating for that.

All right, man. Before we get out of here, though, every time I sweet something out about the podcast, my guy Barf always tells me, what about Minnesota? What about Minnesota Timberwolves? What about Minnesota Timberwolves? All right, here we go.

Minnesota. All right. So that was another edition of the Real Ones podcast. on the ringer NBA feed. You can check us out on Mondays and Thursdays. You can check out everything on the NBA feed. That's the answer that is group chat. Go to R2C2 with, with who?

Belayo legend, C-C-Sabathia. Damn right. And the Ringer music show, my guy Charles Holmes. We will see you guys later in the week. We might have some, you know, we got some surprises. stuff, you know, you know, we got something for you guys. You know what I'm saying? Not going to say too much, you know what I'm saying? See you guys on Thursday.