The Ringer NBA Show - What We Enjoyed Most About the 2023 Basketball Hall of Fame Inductees

Episode Date: August 10, 2023

Kyle Mann and Tyler Parker return for some offseason chatter to discuss a few of this weekend's 2023 Basketball Hall of Fame inductees. They guys look back on the storied careers of some of the best players to ever touch a basketball including Dirk Nowitzki (8:45), Dwyane Wade (24:44), Tony Parker (42:27), and Pau Gasol (50:15). Hosts: J. Kyle Mann and Tyler Parker Producer: Jade Whaley Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Subscribe to the Ringer NFL show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. And be sure to follow the Ringer NFL on Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter at Ringer NFL. This basketball is so very tremendously, just spectacularly good all time. At all times of the year, even during the off season when it's quiet, there's something to talk about. And I don't really ever really need a reason to talk to this guy just because I enjoy shooting the breeze with him so much. I'm joined by known Nick Collison zealot. He's a take smith. He's been called the Electric Seamster.

He's the postmodern McMurtry. He goes by midiames, but general, general muser. Tyler Parker. Tyler, it's good to see you, man. I mean, I haven't laid eyes on you in the while. I feel like the last time we saw each other, we were watching like some really a big stinker of a summer league game. I feel like that's the last time we saw each other, right?

Did you make it out of Vegas? What you've been up to lately, man. Yeah, no, I made it out by the skin of my teeth. Yeah, the last time I was around you was up in the nosebleeds, up in the rafters of Thomas and Mack sneaking pretzels and beer, I think. But it is, it is good to be here. It's good to see your lovely shining face once more. And to talk about these Hall of Fame inductees, these legends of the game, Kyle. Are you excited to discuss the legends of the game? I like having a backward face. You know, I'm a guy who embratees. You know, I'm a guy who in racist history. You know, I think it's important that we understand the history of basketball.

I think you're a buff about history. So that we don't repeat our mistakes, right? You know, it's that serious. We got to know our Eiji Andlins so that we may avoid them in the future. Is that what you're saying? Oh, for sure. Oh, for sure. I understand. That guy was physically pretty impressive. I think you have to admit. I mean, if you just like did like the eye test with him, it's like, I mean, that guy looks like a player. I mean, he's, he's huge. I don't know. I think if, I think if you're a chair, he's a nightmare. You know what I mean? I think once you enter movement into the equation, things do start to get a little hairy. But, you know, I think if he's, if he can go, you know, one on O, he's, he's looking pretty salty. Where does he rank in like chair rivalries?

I mean, if you think about chair dynamics, you've got, you know, Clint Eastwood in the chair during that one famous speech. You've got Bobby Knights. Yeah, Bobby Knight's definitely anti-chair for sure. In terms of chair duos, yeah. I think you, got to put him up there at the top. You know, I don't want to just sit here and say that I've given a ton of thought to, you know, chair duos. So I would like to, you know, commit to looking at this for about an hour after the call so that we can, and then we can sort of circle back. But, I mean, the Clint pull is a strong one. That's still one of the most inexplicably stupid things I think that I've ever seen. And that it happened at all.

is, I just think a testament to the things that will tell famous people yes to. You know what I mean? Like, okay, sure. You're going to do what now? You want to talk to a chair? Did he plan that? I don't think that he did. But, you know, we're big on, we're big on like ranking builds at the ringer now. We're big on, you know, having these living sides. I'm going to send an email. I'm going to send a few emails and see if we can get that one made. Speaking of history, you know, I was, I was pretty amused with Bob Coozy. I love that at 95 years old, he was talking about playing a child's game. I just, I like these guys that get to the end of all this and they're like, yeah, this is bullshit pretty much, you know? Yeah.

He might be in a diaper now, so maybe that's what he's saying. You know what I mean? It might be, it might be like a depends sort of situation for him. And so he's really hearkening back to a simpler time. You know, no, look, I'm not, I'm not trying to upset the coos. I know that he gets pissy if people get, if people take shots at him or people of his generation, what with all those plumbers going on, you know? But when I hear the name Bob Coosie, I think a really small. guy dribbling very fast with his right hand. And I don't mean that he's moving fast. I mean that he's taking

there are many dribbles. Like the like it's a speed, speed dribbles with the right hand. And then I think of blue chips. Those are the two things that I think. And I should think of more. I should think of titles and, you know, whatever else. But, you know, I think, I mean, he made those pleats sing in blue chips. And I, I, I, you know, that that. That pleats. Yeah, those pleats, man. Those pleats were singing. Absolutely. Bobby was making them work for him, I think, you know. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say or talk about pleats in that fashion.

Yeah, I can't, I can repeat. William Freakin passed away recently, you know, another blue chips time. You come to me for any kind of blue chips commentary. I'm kind of a caricature of myself at this point, but I do, I can replay in my mind. I don't want any part of this. His acting, I thought, I thought he, I thought he did a pretty good job. But we're in the mood to talk history here. So we're going to rattle off some of the, I filtered it for like MBA.

You know, there are a lot of inductees every single year. I don't get terribly been out of shape about like who gets welcomed in. Just because I think we're past the point of it really, honestly, it doesn't matter in general, period. But I think we're past, it's so past the point of them being stringent or strict about it. I mean, Bill wrote a whole book about how they weren't being strict about it, obviously. Right. So I think it's just to the point of, uh, I don't, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I don't take it super seriously, but I was going to ask you, are you in any Hall of Fame?

Like high school? Like, you know, did you, did you crack that one? Did you get into your high school's Hall of Fame, Tyler? I know you were a good player. That's why I was curious. I don't know that my high school has a Hall of Fame. I'm on some, I'm on like a, this guy was an Allstate or like a banner or whatever, but I would not like any. You have a banner back at your school?

I don't have a banner. Like, I'm a name on a banner. And then I'm in like a, there's like a little. wouldn't my like all state picture is in like a trophy case? Hell yeah. How many names on the banner? How like is it? Oh, I don't know.

I mean, there's quite a quite a few. You know, four Gibson, we got a nice little history of, we got a nice little basketball history, you know? Is that a big school though? Is that a big school? Nah,

not really. It's like, it's, it's for, Oklahoma is like, you know, you go from basically class, I think the lowest is class B.

And then it goes up to like, now there's like a super six A or something like that. When I was around, it was just up to six. say. And we were a 4A team. We were like a tiny town, but had a bunch of feeder schools that were, you know, that were like K through seventh grade, you know, K through eight, whatever, that would then feed in. And so it was like tiny town, but like medium-sized school. So it was like large school, all, none of this should make it. Large school, all state. But a town of two

sets of stoplights, essentially, when I was there. Sure. A lot of classes for a place with no class. know what I'm saying? Oklahoma. All right. Well, look. Hey. Hunting for Kentucky insults. Hunting for Kentucky insults.

Not hard to find them. I'll diminish myself at any turn. Let's move on to the actual meet of why people are here before we get two in the weeds about Tyler's exports. Our own histories. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Which people are deathly fascinated with. So in this class, you know, some of the big just sweeping it, doing an overview here. I mean, there's some big names here. I mean, honestly, these are names that weren't like, they're from sort of the middle tier of my basketball watching like adolescence, you know? Like the 2000s guys are starting to move into that bracket of being eligible. And we got some big names here. I mean, the first one here, Dirk Novitsky being presented by Jason Kidd and Stephen. Stephen, I don't even know why I was saying.

Steve Nash. Stephen has known to his parents. Dwayne Wade presented by Alan Iverson, who I'm taller than. I wanted to make a note of that. Greg Popovich. you know, the Admiral and Manu, Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, and then Powell Gasol and Tony Parker. So, and then Becky Hammond, who obviously broke some barriers there as, I think she was the first women's assistant. I'm trying to, I know in college we had some women's assistants.

I think you're right. Yeah, yeah. So just going through here, I mean, let's just talk about Dirk Novitsky here. I mean, Dirk, you know, six all time and points with 31,560. Obviously, he got a championship in 2012. A guy who's sort of like, you know, I've talked about this in some videos in the past, like really kick the door down in terms of we had shooting stretch bigs. We had bigs who could kind of get out on the floor and hit shots. You know, you had your Detloff shrimps. You had your Sam Perkins kind of evolved into that later in his career.

Everybody always laughs. But like Dolph Shays back in the day was a big guy who could step out. I know that's a good laugh. Everybody loves Dolph. And it's his less... I'm going to use Dauph on Hoop Grids today. I'm going to try to figure out a way to do that, hopefully. Yeah.

And everybody always forgets about Danny Shays, you know, a guy who plays in the 80s. Danny Shays another pool. When are we going to talk about Danny Shays? I've been pounding my fist about this for a while. He needs flowers. In terms of the, like, if you're, we talked about Yi and sort of Jin Lin, and his, I always say his name wrong, and his sort of the eye test, you know, the aesthetic eye test, the air test, the air. airport test, right? I feel like Danny's probably not up there. Him and like Chris Dudley's

another one you look at him and you're like, yeah, I mean, that guy kind of looks like he works at a car dealership, but he's like, he's 6-11, 7 feet tall, you know. That's my, that's how I feel about John Barry. I feel about John Barry where like I look at John Barry and I'm like, you probably got a great barbecue spot somewhere, don't you, man? You probably like, you're just wheeling and dealing in that smoker, I bet. The nose. Didn't that what they called him in the, in the bench mom. Did they call John Barry the nose? I think that was his nickname. I'm devastated to only just now be finding this out. The King's bench mob, I'm pretty sure. That's a, that's a pretty deep pool. But, you know, Dirk, I always said it was interesting because in that draft class in 98,

I love the secrecy of how I was revisiting some of the stuff of like how he was discovered, how like, and it's so different that it is now, you know, like the access to video. I was making this joke on Twitter the other day about like how the draft like just the level of awareness is so much higher because of how easy video is like back in the day it was like very cumbersome to come into to acquire something on video that was interesting you know like if you watched any of these like found footage documentaries where it was like literally there were these like networks of people who were like physically trading tapes and things like that dirt back in the day you know I feel like the awareness of him is an interesting thing because there's a story about, you know, the Nelson,

Donnie and Don Nelson sneaking into a YMCA to watch him work out. And Don immediately is like, oh, I knew he was an all-star. The level of feeling yourself to like watch a dude in a gym in a YMCA and be like, I knew he was an all-star. Don Nelson just. Don, Don might have been lightened up in the rafters there, you know, and just trying to be, look, this, look at this guy. Check out this big German here. I'm going to ride him. until the wheels fall off. I mean, he's been on the right side of history a lot, but I always thought that, like, in terms of, like, power forwards,

if you look in that draft, it was interesting because they made a deal with Milwaukee to get him, Dallas did, and Robert Tractor-trailer was the other piece taken, you know, taken ahead of him. That's just sort of an interesting sort of, like, point of divergence in how, like, basketball was viewed. If you think about, like, 1998, Dirk was seen as sort of, like, a novelty around that time, like in terms of like how he was playing that position. Yeah, I mean, it's like you go from, you know, a bull in a china shop to someone who's just

going to kind of stay on the outskirts and let it fly. You know what I mean? Like he was such a weirdo when he got into the league based on, you know, I know, I know he sort of became a lot, moved a lot more stiff as he got older. And he wasn't as as spry as he used to. to be. But like, I just remember early on thinking like, this is a massive dude who looks very comfortable with the ball and he's got the proportions of someone who shouldn't be looking like that. You know what I mean? Like, he just didn't make sense to me. And I remember thinking,

like, I remember thinking, I don't know how this guy is doing this because he's different than anybody really that's been around before. I mean, he wasn't. like the, you know, he wasn't the level of playmaker that Bird was, right? There wasn't like the like, you know, kind of like sauce on the passing or anything like that. And I hate that I just went white to white with the comparison, but, you know, whatever. The biggest thing for me with Dirk was like, up to that point, I just hadn't seen anybody shoot with that kind of freedom who was that kind of size. And I think that it was like, you know, the, you know, the style that those Mavericks teams played,

the way that Nelson let him play, they just sort of kept trying to show like, no, this dude is built different. Like, and, you know, he has his issues in the,

in the late 2000s and stuff like that, you know, the we believe warriors, all that stuff, you know, the kind of collapse against the heat in 2006 in the finals. But he had like, an I'm not going anywhere way about him.

You know what I mean? And he was tough. Yeah. Yeah. And getting to, getting to watch him try to figure out like, oh, okay, this is how I can, this is how I can dominate, you know, like, like figuring out like, okay, I got to be able to get into the post a little bit more. Like, he was very, he wound up being extremely adaptable, you know.

Yeah, yeah, I think something that's interesting about him, if you look, if you go back and look at some of those Mavs teams, I mean, they were a little bit ahead of the curve in terms of like attempting threes, you know, they were fourth in the league and scoring in 2000, 2001 here. I've got this pulled up. And then by 0102, They're leading the league in scoring at 105.2. And attempting, you know, and they're third in the league and attempting three. So they're aggressively hunting them. Something I brought up to you, though, that I thought was interesting.

You mentioned Bird, obviously. And that's, Bird's such an interesting animal in terms of like point guard skills on the floor for a player who doesn't dominate the ball. He and Magic, I think were interesting in the fact that, you know, magic was one side of the coin. He always had the ball. Bird was like coming off of the ball and making kind of quick passes within the flow of their offense. But something that he, something that Dirk and Bird had in common that I think is interesting is that we always think of them as these methodical work your way to your spot, kind of playing in slow motion. Dirk had this sort of inevitability about him. Like it was like

this immovability. You talked about how he was resilient. He was tough. I think he had to be to survive the way that he was playing. But he was actually pretty like he moved really well in those early days. Like if you go back and watch some of those games from like 010, 20, 03 of Dirk, the big thing about him that really stood out even in that Hoops Summit game, you know, you see that he like set the record at the time. I think it was like 34 points in that game. But the reason that he did it was that he was taking these American Biggs off the dribble because he was catching it from three and he was like drawing all these fouls.

That was the big thing about him. And he sort of evolved into that like guy. You talked about the struggles they had in the playoffs. He evolved into this guy that had this back to the basket game because he had this gigantic frame. I just think it's interesting how his evolution, I mean, he added the postgame later on and just became this unstoppable force with his back to the basket game. The lasting sort of Dirk image to me is game one of the 2011 Western Conference finals whenever they played the Thunder. And that's, you know, the team that I'm a fan of. And I really don't think I've ever

felt more helpless as a fan. I mean, it was, like he goes he went 12 for 15 from the field he didn't even have to take a three he was 12 for 15 from the field he had 48 points he was 24 for 24 from the line and just like complete torture doesn't even begin to describe the stuff that he was doing to ibacca and colison they threw cephalotia on him nothing i mean it was just like the amount uh it was just like mid post stuff just face up and just eat. And it was, I, I've, I've never, I've never felt so just like, man, we, we can't do anything here. Like, there's nothing to be done here. It kind of reminds me of the conversations we were having about Wimby during the off season where we were like, well, you know,

he's pretty vulnerable because he's pretty upright in traffic. You know, you have these awesome ball skills that show up in a frame that isn't normally there. By now we've, we have seen that. But when a guy's that big and like, you know, he's, when we can get low with his dribble, but that evolution to like, okay, he doesn't have to dribble to his spots. Like, we can, we can just sort of like put him in his spot and you really can't do anything about it in terms of like him getting to his shot. I think that's, that's an interesting parallel between those two guys. Dirk was just so smart to, I mean, like with the like the lifts in the midpost, like, you know, leaning in, catching a body, fading away a little bit. And, you know,

know hitting it. I mean, like the number of times he did that, especially as he sort of got later on in his career and stuff. Like he really felt like a dominant kind of post force there for a little while just because of how inevitable the jumper started feeling. But yeah, I mean, when they won it in 2011 and he immediately sprints off the court because he knows he's going to be so emotional and he wants to just have that moment by himself, hey, I don't think I've ever seen anybody do that. And winning any championship, I don't think I've ever seen that. And I remember thinking this is very odd and then quickly shifting to, this is awesome. Because the amount of self-awareness to have in that moment, you know, like the thing you've been gunning for your whole life,

you got, and you got it because of you. You are the, the reason. And to know, like, no, I got to go take this time and just like scream in the bathroom for a little while. Like that's, that made me, I really like, I went to a new level of, you know, affection for for, for, for, for, for, for, for it was like, it was a true fuck the cameras moment. He never had that like marketing. Yeah, that's something about Derek is that like whenever you would see him, it was, he never had that like, I need to market myself. Of course, of course, he was never really like a, a candidate to be like a shoe company.

any like the main gun for like a shoe. But you never got that vibe from him of like, he always had a sense of humor about himself. You always balanced that line between like, it's weird. We penalize some guys for their vulnerability. Like Rudy Gobert starts crying about it. And everybody's just like,

give me a fucking break with this guy. You know what I mean? And Joel starts crying after they lose. And it is an interesting balance between we like the vulnerability, but there's like a spot where, I don't know, that maybe it's just that Rudy has some intrinsic, like, annoying quality that Dirk doesn't, where we're harder on him than we are on Dirk. yeah maybe i mean dirt did his fair share of of flailing but you know that like i don't know that but i don't know like you know he didn't play as weak as gobert plays with the ball you know what i mean

like dirt jerk was dirt you know he had to he had to get tougher as his career went on but then you know he and i i imagine probably his whatever softness that was attributed to his game early on some of it warranted but some of it was also like the american public trying to come to terms with like how to deal with this European who's good at basketball. And it's like, well, let's pick at this wound until it starts bleeding. You know what I mean? Like this, here's the weakness. Oh, they're soft. Okay, great. Let's just pound that until, you know, the cows come home. I remember watching, it was late in his crowd. I don't remember what year, but Kobe was still around, but he was sitting out. He was in street clothes and Dirk hit

that winter in L.A. And like, kind of patting. Kobe sort of on the thigh because he fell into the bench a little bit and Kobe kind of patted him on the butt or whatever and they like had a little moment there and then the Lakers called time out and I forget who it was even garden dirt during that shot but Kobe just kind of looks at the guy and goes tough shot yeah he's he's he's one of the all-time like throw your hands up guys like the inevitability totally like the inevitability of what he did it's like you can that you can, you see some of the best defenders in the world, and he's coming at him, and he's just got that flamingo-legged fade.

Yeah. He just can't do a lot about it. Another thing, too, is, like, he really ushered in, I think, an era of out-of-the-box. Like, people becoming more open to, and I obviously have to move on to these other guys were talking. I love Derek. It's easy to talk about him. I can talk about him all day.

I mean, he was a trend-setter, too. Like, it was exactly what you said. Like, you talk about that leg shot, like, Durant obviously implemented that pretty much. straight away. And you see all other bigs trying out, you're trying to figure out their versions of it, even some, you know, like dudes that aren't, you know, 610 and slithery, right? Like you see some of these like hyperathletic, you know, two, three swing dudes that try to get guys down into the post and kind of try to get a little bit of space with the leg too. Like it's, I think a lot of kids will come into the league now being like Durant, especially these tall guys that can handle it

and stuff that will say like Durant is my favorite player. Durant's the guy I watched, Durant, Durant, Durant, Durant, and that's all very earned on Durant's part. But Durant was watching a lot of Dirk. And like that was like a guy that he patterned a lot of his stuff. He's on record as having said that he, you know, watched him and tried to steal from him and stuff. And so I think, you know, I think Dirk is the godfather of the unicorns in some way.

Like at least the modern day ones, the guys that could. do, you know, because he could do more than just shoot in the end. Like he was, he could put it on the floor and do some stuff. So I, no, I mean, I think he's, I think he's worth all the, all the fuss. You know what I mean? Yeah. And like you said, I think, I think it's spot on before we move on. Talk about Wade. I think it's spot on that, like, well, like I was saying, he, he ushered in. Holger is the other guy that is the part of this story. He was the guy that trained him from, and Holger's got all these, you know, out of the box. Like, he, you know, wants him to listen to jazz, wants him to, he's just sort of,

He's a mad scientist a little bit. But a lot of like his teaching methods, Adam Harrington, the guy that played with, I mean, I've talked about this in videos, he played with Dirk and Dallas and got close with him. He went and went to the source and took all that info from Holger and worked with KD in the summers. I think it was like 2014 somewhere in there. And then Katie goes to this similar thing of like, okay, I want to add this part to my game. That's going to be a facet that's going to be hard to deny. And I've made this joke too that like, you know, Nike put out. this signature move series where they were like going to each player and be like, hey, what's your

signature move? And KD did his. And it's just, I'm not saying KD did this, but whoever produced that video is probably guilty of this. They totally passed it off as if that was KD's signature thing. And I was just like, Dirk and Holger should be like cease and desist, buddy. You know, like, I mean, Dirk's even a Nike guy. I don't know how they allowed that to happen. I just always thought that was hilarious. I mean, you got, you have to, because you found this and you put it in the dock, you got tell just the thing about Holger's jeans. Like what Don Nelson? People, anybody that hasn't read this needs to know about the legacy of Holger's jeans.

Oh, well, Holger, yeah, I also put in our in our document, there's a clip of Dirk in like a full, full warm-up uniform wearing foam posits with that, which I thought was incredible. Looking great in the foams. Never thought I'd see that. the royal blue beautiful shining foams. Didn't strike me as a foams guy, but I thought that needed to be documented. The other thing with Sue is just that they were talking about, Donnie Nelson was talking about Holger's,

had these jeans that he'd had since 1973 and that he still wears today. A, I think the, I was just going to say that the waistband of those jeans has to be worn out. I don't know, he's got to, I'm sure, he seems to me like a braided belt guy. Like Holger seems like he'd have a braided belt that's way too big.

That's way too big. He would have fit in at any church youth group in the 1990s, 1,000%. But I'm just saying 73 is a long time. I'm just curious if this is like, I don't know. It just got me thinking, I don't think I've ever had any pair of pants. Maybe if it speaks to Holger's, his sort of his health. Or he stretched them out over time. It's a fascinating thing.

I've never had a pair of pants that long. He's clearly a work smarter, not hard. kind of guy. You're not going to get a lot of scuffs on those. He's not the one doing the dribbling, right? He's telling Durk, hey, go spin around five times. I shoot a shot and I'll rebound it, you know, if I get there, right? Like, I'm not 50 years old. I don't think I own anything that's 50 years old. I would love to get a good look at those jeans. And I would, like, if, you know, Holger, if you're listening, I'm not going to read my address out here, but like, you know, come find me on one of the many awful social media sites.

And I would love to just take a pick of them. I don't even need to, I don't even need to come. You know, you're a person. You don't know me. Send a pick. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Send a pick, buddy. Because it's, you talk about commitment to an aesthetic and just like, well, why would I get new jeans?

These still, these don't have holes in them and they fit me. I don't need new jeans. I'll get new genes when they don't, when, when they stop working. working. I really, it sucks that he's not around in him, that we're not getting to see him much anymore. I mean, maybe, do you think he'll wear the jeans to the Hall of Fame induction series? Holger's got to got to be there, right? He has to. He has to. He's an, he's an important piece here to this story. He should wear the jeans. He should honestly just wear the jeans, the flannel and the leather jacket. He should just do that. He should just sort of be the cartoon character that we want him

to be in, in our heads. But I think that Dirk would appreciate that. I think so too. I think so too. So speaking of another guy that was sort of a nemesis for for Dirk at different times, somebody that ran up against, you know, in the in the in the finals, you know, the heat. The heat and the Mavs obviously squared off in that finals in 11. Just before they, you know, the heatles broke through and LeBron had to do some adjusting of his own and move to the post. It always kind of falls the same script. It's just like, okay, I face the basket. I had the post, you know, if it's, it's an interesting. Well, I think it's that. And I think it's like, oh, I'm not using all the tools in my tools.

belt here. There's this advantage that I have that I'm just using, you know, sparingly. And if I go down into the post and actually employ this size I've been given, then I can do more damage. I think it's like a, you're trying to get by on not doing everything you can. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking about how you made me think of like Shay has a little bit of that. I was thinking about a downhill. He, he weirdly has a little back to the basket. But Shea actually has some similarities. I feel like in terms of like driving angularity to the next guy that we're going to talk about, who says that Alan Iverson influenced him. I'm sure that's true in terms of like his like off the dribble bag, but that's Dwayne Wade. Dwayne Wade, I was saying my relationship of just like following him

reaches all the way back to my awareness of him in terms of like access to cable TV. I feel like his games were probably on like Fox Sports or something back in the day when he was at Marquette. Didn't catch a lot of, well, they were conference USA too at one point. You weren't catching a lot of FS Milwaukee telecasts or anything? No, not a time. So, yeah, like early on, I think my awareness of him was like, and I, this is again, they're talking about like seeing an awareness, like an awareness of players just changes over the years. Like, I knew that he was out there.

I'd read about Dwayne Wade. I was following his career, you know, not seeing whole games at that point. But this was a specific window in time where I'm like downloading highlights of players on Caza. I don't know if you ever went through this face. I did not go through this phase, but only because my parents were afraid of the internet. I see. I see. And now they're, you know, I'm sure.

Well, let's just keep going. Yeah. Well, Waz and I've talked about this. So you were always to catch, to keep up on basketball players at that time, you were always running the risk of giving your computer cancer. So there was always that. I was catching a lot of Dwayne way. But obviously, he breaks into my life in glorious fashion when he just absolutely. flamethrower destroys Kentucky in a regional final.

One of the worst days in my fandom life. I still contend no one was beating Marquette on that day. They were incredible. He was also wearing some of the best team Nike's that were around in the 2000s. I forget even the name of them, but as I think about it, man, they were. I don't think they were. I don't, man, let's go to the phones. Let's see.

So Wade, Wade comes on the scene, comes into the league. He's, obviously, we don't have to recap his whole career. here. But in the broad sense, successful really early on. I mean, he's a guy who, you know, was kind of ascended to become the leader of that Miami team really quickly. You know, obviously hit like a series winning shot early in his career, kind of some parallels to Lillard there. But I'd say, you know, over the course of his career, 13-time All-Star, 8-time, all-N-B-A, three times all-defense, three NBA titles. He's 32nd all-time and scoring. That number would probably be higher if his body had held up a little more. A lot of injury history with him, but he's 31st and steals all time and 47th in assists.

Really disruptive. The thing that strikes me is just like, I really think Dwayne Wade is one of the all-time fluid movers with the ball on his hands. And I mentioned Shay. Yes. Man, his ability to get low and wide and cut, he just had like a running back quality to him, like going to the basket. It just seemed like he was just so smooth with the ball on his hands. he was one of those dudes that moved like a leopard you know what i mean like he like him and coby jordan wade would throw some like odd i think he used a word like herky jerky kind of moves you know what i mean in there like he could kind of funk up his rhythm a little bit and

euro and take these long strides and kind of speed up the frame rate sometimes you know what i mean and so it wouldn't look smooth all the time, but it almost felt like that was kind of by design on his part. You know what I mean? Like going back and watching clips of him, just the body controls out of, it's just out of this world. He's so strong.

Like you forget just how strong he was, and obviously he got stronger over the course of his career, but you just forget how hell bent he could be on getting to the rim and either, you know, putting Verrajao in a body bag, like he did that one time. Or, you know, he's got some of the, you know, better non-Jordan acrobatic finishes that you're ever going to see.

He had one against the Pacers. It was bonkers one year. One early on against, I think it was McDice and against the pistons, kind of like coming like right to left across the lane and, you know, getting around, Rip Hamilton, and sort of floating across the lane.

in front of McDice who tries to slide in late, gets called for a block, and Wade is like on the other side of the lane, on the left side of the lane, the left side of the rim, and kind of finishes back behind his body. Yeah, with his right hand. You know what I mean?

And it's kind of, it's like stuff like that where you're just like, this is another level of like in-air control, you know, like, yeah, just some of the, some of the stuff that he could do. I mean, and obviously like that got,

amplified once LeBron got there, the stuff that they did together. I think there was so much frustration from NBA fans about like, oh man, why are you making it where y'all are so good now? Yeah. And you know what I mean? Like, and so you did, there wasn't, there probably wasn't enough appreciation from like NBA fans at large for just how cool some of the shit they were doing with honestly.

And I say that as like myself who was like, you know, I was pumped. up whenever they were struggling out of the gate, you know, in 2010, too. You know what I mean? Like, I was like, I was absolutely one of those heat haters that was like, okay, good. You know, maybe talent won't want one out, you know? But yeah, I mean, they, they, I still think about that against one of those shit Lakers teams that Wade's leading the break and he comes in and you think he's just going to kind of leave it for LeBron like they always would. And sort of, I, I, I, it didn't even really make sense.

It looked like it was going to be a bad play, but he threw it off the backboard. And LeBron, it felt like he was expecting it to just come right back to him like a lot of those other ones do. And LeBron finishes it one handed with the left. Yeah. Oh, I know the one you're talking about.

He just kind of, yeah, it's like just a quick, a quick guide into the basket. Yeah. And it's just like, you know, Wade's move to do that off the backboard is like, that's the stuff that needs to be celebrated. That's the stuff like,

there are plenty of things need to be celebrated. really, but I love players that are like, there's a crowd here. Let's like, they want to see us do some wild shit. Let's put on a show. Like, I could, I could throw this back to you for an Alleyoop that we've completed so many times, or we could get a little fun. And especially once LeBron got there and stuff, like there were grading parts of it, the not six, not seven, not eight, all that little, all the fire, you know, explosions and

stuff on that. But like, that's it, like, I like that he was a little, that he, that he got too big for his britches and got a little, lacks some self-awareness and starts making fun of Dirk for being sick in that finals. And then Dirk gets to come back and shove it in their face. Like, I, that's, we need more players to put themselves out there like that. For the drama, at least. Yes, absolutely. That's what's good about, that's what's good about Booker, right? Like, there is, there's, there's plenty of self-awareness there.

But there's also some stuff like, dude, you're going to get too big. for your shorts here and something bad's going to happen, like with the Lucas stuff or whatever, right? Like he was always, always, it seemed like playing to the crowd. And yeah, just had had a sense for how to really like make a building explode, you know? Yeah. I really think some of his, before we move on here, like I just think a couple, one thing that I wanted to talk about here was just that like this evolution of the scoring shooting guard sort of having having the outlet of playmaking. And you saw some of those teams like the 0809 team is sort of the wine bottle, if you want to use that terminology. It was sort of his tippy top, like, you know, iteration.

You know, in that season he led the league in scoring 30.2. He averaged 2.2 steals, carried a big usage rate at 36.2. But seven and a half assists. And he hit a 10.6 box plus minus. which was the 22nd highest mark ever for a single season. But I think some of his totals would have been different, A, because of the health, but also because he had that malleability once LeBron came,

they paired well together because LeBron was the chess master, one of the all-time chess masters, could pick you apart, could look at what you're doing to just say, cool, I'm going to manipulate what you're doing and move you. Wade had that unstoppable inevitability to his scoring, but he also, he over the course, I feel like, as well as any scoring shooting guard ever without being like a full-blown chess player playmaker, really got a good feel for using the pressure of his scoring and knowing where sort of the outlets were,

the pressure valves were to. And I think that's a big reason why they became, you know, the point guards on those Miami Heat teams were good. You know, Chalmers was a good player during that time. But they were sort of just facilitators. They had different roles with those two guys, you know, based on the playmaking dynamic that they had between them. Wade was so you talk about like him as sort of like an underrated playmaker like when you like going back and looking at old clips of him and stuff like he was really good at getting you know at pulling a second defender and getting them to commit and and getting them to come like you know making him think he's going to shoot it right up until he doesn't and then making these like you know passes two and three guys away to the. the other corner or to the opposite wing or something like that. There was, you talk about those release vows, he just knows where people are going to be.

There was, he, he felt like one of those guys that like, you know, a great like option quarterback or something like that who could like get past one. That's a good comparison. That's a good comparison. Like an option quarterback. Yeah. Yeah. He could get past one level of a defense and then get to either get to the big that's having to come

over or just not even. even getting to him, but getting deep enough that he knows that the big's going to have to start and that other defender on the opposite side is going to have to drop to take care of the big that is going to, is releasing to come get him. And then he hits it. I mean, and then with those heat teams too, like they just, especially when they have Bosch at the five, you've got, even though Wade was never, I mean, the one thing he couldn't ever do great was shoot, right, at least from three. but that like you had pretty much all five guys out there that could do something with the ball if they got it make a decision and it just made it so hard on defenses that were especially at that point a lot a lot of defenses still trying to play with old model lineups right like there's in the in the in the in these finals you know against perkins and ibaca right like it's you know it just making that defense kind of dead to rights before things even start, you know?

Yeah. Yeah, like, Wade was one of those guys that, like, I think because he was so good on defense, too, he could just feel all the more overwhelming. Like, there's those two, there's a play that was like, I think it was like the 0-4, 05 season, one was early seasons, but it was against the, it was an ESPN game against the Sons. And Amare had the ball, like, clock running down at the end of the third. And Wade just goes up middle of the lane and just takes the shot out of Amari's hands. Like, just like damn near cups the ball out of his hands and takes a few dribbles and launches something from around half court that goes in.

And it's just one of those things where, like, you know, the shot sort of feels like, okay, like there's some luck there. but it's there was it wasn't the same thing but like in like that 0809 season that you're talking about where he was just felt like some people thought he should he could have won the MVP that year you know the like he had a play against the bulls in double overtime john salmon's had the ball and he was like trying to take maybe u d off i don't remember but the the announcers that are doing the game are like the bulls have to like this match up and then wade come wade's just sort of slinking off of his guy slowly and waits for Sammons to kind of get too occupied with his own move and then comes over, takes it from Sammons, dribbles to the other end of the floor and hits a running three with no time left on the clock to beat the buzzer and win and double overtime. Then he goes and jumps on top of the scores table and starts shouting like, this is my shit, this is my city. Yeah, yeah. It's like iconic image from his career for sure. Yeah. Totally. Like they were just like he could do stuff that you felt him sort of everywhere all, his influence was all. His influence was

all over the court, I think, just because of the athlete he was and because he actually used that stuff to his advantage also on defense too. You know what I mean? Like he was just, those heat teams were hell early on, like to try to move the ball against. Yeah, very disruptive. Yeah, well, we'll move on here to talk about the last two. I'm going to lump Tony Parker and Greg Pavovich together. You know, Popovich obviously had honestly a pretty interesting arc. I've talked about he's started at this very small school called Pomona Pitzer. His sort of path towards, like, networking in the coaching world was really interesting. He takes a sabbatical.

You can go read about this. Meets up with, like, connects with these guys, Larry Brown, Dean Smith. He eventually ends up on staff with the Warriors and Don Nelson during those, you know, mid to early 90s teams. And then moves over to the Spurs, gets connected. You'll even hear him just by his own, you know, he obviously was a brilliant mind in the game and everything. then ends up with connecting up with Duncan, and they just kind of go on this ride, this incredible ride. And, you know, they draft, talking about the international game. The Spurs obviously

very ahead in terms of like scouting and having like a heightened awareness. Dirk caused some sort of like Euro panic, I feel like, or just some like stupid Euro mimicry where there are these just guys in Europe that are good, we can just get one? And they were just assumed that would work. whereas the spurs were a lot more like, well, they were just kind of ahead of the game, I feel like in terms of it. And Popovich was a big part of that about bringing those guys in

and getting great value on a lot of them. But yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, like, I think Dirk was definitely like, oh, we got to go get us one of those. There's just more of them over there for sure. I think that they got a lot, they probably got a lot of them, right?

Yeah. And then Tony Parker, obviously. Like, Tony Parker was never, I feel like, do you ever think he was the best point guard in the league? I mean, he played during it, he played during an era where we just had a lot of great point cards. I don't think he was ever the best point guard in the league, but I, you know, like, for what they needed him to be, he was incredible. I mean, I still think about that, like, because there was, you know, there was that, I forget how, how well-founded the rumors were, but wasn't there all that talk after one of those seasons that the Spurs were going to try to go get Jason Kidd or trade for Jason Kidd or something like that? and they sort of like the spurs sort of you know brain trust was just sort of decided no well let's just

let's ride this french kid and and you know see if we can't go get you know some more and say it you know that i think that that is you know it's a that's a testament to the talent that parker had and how dangerous he could be and also to just popovitch and them kind of knowing like no we got we got a we got a good thing here let's not let's not get tempted by something sexier here just because, you know, he's been to a couple finals, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. For not ever being, like, ostensibly the best in the league. He just, he fit so well with those teams just with his rim pressure.

And then you have overall just the cumulative passing of those teams, man. I mean, if you think about the later ones, obviously everybody always points to Diao and stuff like that. But, I mean, just having a de facto guy who is a secondary playmaker, I feel like Manu, you know, who went into the hall last year. They just had a lot of cumulative passing with Tim Duncan. And then you have the big thing about Parker that I remember is just that like he was just this. He always seemed to be shooting a layup.

And I would be in like you never, he was one of the all time like how is this guy shooting a layup? Like it just there was no way to stop at me. He almost had like a second down back way of like getting his shoulder under the defender. And he sneaky strong. I feel like he just, he always had this like creative finishing ability. Just this really, we keep saying this word inevitable, man, just like an inevitable presence around the rim for his size. And really, he was a below the rim finisher too. Yeah.

The quickness and just like fearlessness and like constant commitment to trying, like I'm going to get there. Like, maybe not this possession, but the next, I'm like I'm going to keep coming. Like it's not going to, it's, it's, it is, I'm not going to stop. There was something that was, I just, he was just, especially when Manu was out there, he was just such a man who was, there was, was so just like manic and wild and free flowing and would try things. And Duncan was this next level talent, right? And, and his own kind of, very methodical and cerebral and everything like that. And there was something very like, you tell. military about Parker.

You know, the finishes weren't going to be like double clutchy or like going for like big points from the judges. You know what I mean? Like it was going to be like he was just going to get it done. You talked about Wade having that showmanship thing to it. It's like Parker never really. Of course, I mean, I feel like Manu was probably the only guy of that core that was kind of like, let me put a little extra sauce.

It kind of reminds me with like the way this is a sneaky one. It reminds me of those jazz teams that were so efficient. just, you know, they had this thing that worked really well, this machine that every, the Spurs had an incredible run of like, they were the gatekeepers of legitimacy in the West. They had their peaks where they, like, where they were like working, but it was always like, their thing works so well year in and year out in large part because of Parker that it was like, oh, this, this up-and-coming young team, it was like the Warriors, the Thunder. And it went, I mean, it went on even in the mid-teens years where it was like, all right, well, are you going to be able to

beat the Spurs? And it was always. a tough question because of every single year. It reminds me of Hornacek was sneaky, flashy. Like, people don't really, if you didn't watch him. I don't remember this. I don't remember this part. Well, he had a little extra sauce. I know this is going to sound insane to some people, but like, that's what it kind of reminds me of that like the guy with the sort of the haircut of like every dad in the late 90s, actually had a little bit extra sauce in there. I forget what the cuts you were called. But But the spurs, yeah, just just as sort of an immovable force, you know, for a long time, a pretty incredible run of longevity there as a core.

Do you remember that, I forget what the campaign was, but it was one of the, like, the NBA, and it wasn't like where amazing happens, but it was like one of those, like, I think it was going into the playoffs, maybe. It was what they would, but they would clip these, you know, specific. individual plays from certain teams and they would put they would get they would it would be like the phantom camera it would be like super slow-mo and there would be some song playing underneath and there's a there's one of those commercials of the spurs and it's just the the the song is uh is shook ones part

two yeah my and it's one it's one of the best commercials that i've ever seen it's on youtube it has to i'm sure it is you know it's one of it's one of those possessions were just like Parker and Duncan and Manu and like I think they had Dia at that point. It was so good for them. And like another French dude that, you know, I'm sure Parker was whispering in his ear like, no, just put the baguette down. Have a piece of celery. It'll be okay, Boris. Like we'll get, we'll have some, we'll have some good wine later. Just, you know, we need you for tonight. But yeah, I just, it was that commercial to me, I think a lot about that commercial anytime I think about those spurs teams because it was just like, like, like, like,

you know, ruthless efficiency, total, like the, the execution, like... So like the Spanish Inquisition, basically, right? Is that what you... Thank you. Yes. That's what I was looking for. Yeah, right. Well, I just thought of the Monty Python sketch. Sorry, not to step on my own joke there. We got to talk about Gasol, and then we got to get out of here.

We're going along. We always do this, Tyler. Paul Gasol enters the league. I mean, he's one of the cases of, like, the Euro guys, filtering into the league during that time, it starts to become more of a thing. I'm going to remember Gassal for, obviously, for his stuff with Kobe. I feel like his presence in the international game elevated all of basketball. In terms of like the FIBA showdowns, I can remember like some of the basketball games that I look forward to most intensely were those like metal round showdowns with the U.S.

teams. And I feel like he's shifted basketball in a way. where it was just like, we knew we could lose to Argentina. It's not like we hadn't tasted. I'm saying we as an American here. It's not like we hadn't tasted humble pie. We had. But once we got our shit together, you know, the Gasol brothers, all that Spanish talent.

But Powell was this guy that it was just like, even if we send our best, we know Powell Gasol is a force that could still beat us. And I just think, yeah, as a passer, as a score, I just think Gasol is one of the all time. even though he wasn't like a total like full load superstar, just an incredible talent in terms of ball skills at his position. Those Lakers teams would run four or five pick and rolls and they'd invert it with him and Lamar Odom like around the foul line. And it would just confuse the shit out of people. And, you know, that was that was well before, you know, Biggs had much of a sense for how to, you know, cover both spots in the pick and roll, right? It would just, like, like, you talk about the ball skills and stuff like that.

Like, there was a lot of playmaking with Pau, and I think his was, you know, he was another guy where, like, you know, you would try to figure out like, okay, is this guy, or is this guy soft or is he just different? Like, you know, like, what, like, what, is he just new or is he, or is there, you know, and I think he wound up proving in the end that, like, you know, he, like, I mean, I know that Kobe, you know, the stories are that Kobe kind of toughened him up and stuff. But, I mean, you know, the Lakers don't win those two titles in the end without him at all. I mean, he's got, he has that huge double clutch shot, I think, in the second when they wanted in, yeah, against the Celtics.

And that was against, am I, am I losing my mind? No, you're right. Oh, 809 was the magic. 0910 was, right, right, right, right. And just like, giving it to Garnett and, you know, like sort of the most kind of like, I will roar at you and show you how tough I am. You know what I mean? Like, and sort of everybody, you know, Garnett has this, you know, longstanding, you know, reputation of, you know, just being completely grimy and like, you know, doing whatever it takes and, you know,

tough beyond belief and all that. And Powell went toe to toe with him. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I mean, like, there's, there are the aspects of POW too just like, he's, he's clearly such an, like he'll go to the opera, you know, he's just like an oddball. It's been, you know, really kind of eye-opening and moving at times to see what a relationship he has with, you know, the Bryant family still and the way that him and his wife have sort of, it seems like, at least been there for Vanessa and those girls right now. And he just, yeah, there's like a,

there's like a very, there's something very gentlemanly about him. We'll put that on his plaque. I think that should be in the copy and the body copy. I think it's, hopefully it'll stay on. When that trade went down, like, did you have any sense that he was, like, what, do you remember having an opinion on it? I just thought it was a steel. I mean, like, I thought it was a pillaging. You're talking about him to the Lakers, obviously, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, once those two were teamed up, yeah, I was a big soft fan on both ends of the floor. Yeah, just in the twin big thing that they had going on there.

But yeah, so that's the gist of the Hall of Fame class. Any other, there's some other news here that we could hit on, but we don't have time. You know, Steph obviously singing Paramore. We were going to talk about, we were going to talk about, you know, other players, being lead singers in bands. We don't have time to do it. You know, there's, it's been a, it's a slow time. Karris Lovart had a, you know, $93,000 watch stolen, tough beat for him, Dwight Howard officiating weddings. Anyway, Tyler, it was good to see you. I'm sure you're, enjoying your offseason just sort of like staring at your Chet Homegren poster and, you know,

the poster looks great. It's for, I'm waiting to get it framed. I got to make more money before I can get it framed because it's so tall and to get anything framed, it costs, uh, It costs around $500,000 it seems like these days. So I'm still scrapping this scratch together for that. But no, I mean, you know, the biceps are looking great. You know, the tries obviously look at a little. The tries are looking a little bit better than the biceps. And we're still trying to work on the calves.

But, you know, yeah, it's where I'm, I'm pleased with the poster. I need a muscle group by muscle group breakdown from you of just sort of, I need you to wax poetic on that. I start looking for any good things. And I'm like, dude, I caught a glimpse of the quads yesterday in one of the, in one of those. It's a little pixelated, but I don't want to say we can jump to conclusions. But, you know, anyway. I think people are going to have a hard time pushing them off of a spot. You know, I don't know.

It was good to see you. Go buy Tyler's book. Good to drop back in. Thanks to Jade Whaley for producing us. Always does a good job. Yes, and thanks to everybody and been Cruz. We will catch you soon. Stay tuned.

We're going to keep having stuff in the off season. I got some projects I'm working on that hopefully come out soon. But Tyler, it's good to see you. Catch you all next time. Later.