The Ringer NBA Show - What Would a Championship Mean for Giannis Antetokounmpo’s Legacy? | Real Ones

Episode Date: July 19, 2021

After Raja recounts his harrowing experience at the Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport, Logan and Raja talk about what they saw from the Bucks and Suns in Game 5 (5:00). Then, as Giannis Antetokounmpo approaches a title win, they wonder what a championship and likely Finals MVP in addition to two MVPs and a DPOY would mean for the 26-year-old's legacy (23:00). Finally they look to Game 6, when the Bucks will lay it all on the line to win and the Suns will lay it all on the line to stay alive (41:39). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nobody knows what's going on, but we watch the Olympics. We just turn on our TVs and become obsessed with sports we haven't thought about in four years. This is why we made the ringer guide to the summer games. I'm your host, Roger Sherman. Each day during the Tokyo Olympics, I'll tell you about a different sport, athlete, or storyline. We'll be releasing new episodes every day starting July 19th. Follow along on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so you know exactly how to watch the Olympics. And we're back. This is Logan Murdoch from the Real Ones podcast on KMEL. I'm here with Raja Bell, and we got the Mad Hooper here.

Yeah, we're here with the Mad Hooper, and I think we're going to open it up for the audience to ask some question to the Mad Hooper. Young lady, do you have a question for the Mad Hooper? And I just have a question for the Mad Hooper. Like, why are you so mad? I don't get it. Like, why are you so mad? If you were a Timberwolves fan and you watched a strap Wesley Johnson, You dealt with Ricky Rubio. You even dealt with Ricky Rubio coming back to Minnesota and all your friends getting nostalgic for $17 million a year. You finally get Anthony Edwards. You finally get a way out of the hellhole that is Mr. Khan. That is Kat.

That is the Levine and Wiggins mistake. All of that can be erased with Anthony Edwards. And now we're going to hedge it all for a guy that can't shoot. If I hear one more Timberwolves fan tell me, Benson, I don't. We don't care. We had another guy that can't shoot. Let's lock up our salary cap. Let's be done for the next four years. It's so Minnesota Timberwolves, we're going to trade for Ben Simmons. We're going to get them. We're going to lock ourselves into the 10 seed for the next four years. That's why I'm mad. I'm mad because even with Rosas, even with Kahn out, even with Glenn Taylor leaving, we still can't figure it out.

Man, I'm mad. What's popping? Logan Murdoch here. Sasha Mac on the board. We got Roger Bell back at the building. back. I'm very excited. Roger. It's good to be back. How you doing, man? How you doing? It's good to be home. It's always great to get away. Where were you going? Why were you gone? Why are you gone? When did you get back? I got back last night around 11.30. I took my son up to the Manning Passing Academy in Louisiana. It was a very cool experience for he and I. Logan, can I just say this? I just want to say this. It's been a long time since I ran it to

start the pod on something other than basketball, but allow me, right? if you would. Louisiana is a great state. Like, we had a great time. But some of my interactions at Louisiana airport at New Orleans Airport were less than stellar, less than like the Louis Armstrong airport. I just had an awful experience with a young lady at a at a rental car place. Like she she got sideways. It was all in my business as I asked a customer service young lady about car availability. She was helping another customer and asked me, why are you speaking to her? Like just got all sideways. And I tried to diffuse it and be cool. And, She just was like consistent.

Maybe she had a bad day. But then what she did was she pocketed my reservation and made me sit there for like 30 minutes waiting on a car until I had to go up and be like, did I, am I in the wrong place? Like what's going on? And so I realized how this was going down. And in my older age, I actually did a good, I apologized for the interaction, even though it wasn't my fault because I could see where this was going. And you know what she did after I apologized? What she do? She gave me my fucking car.

Wow. But she was going to hold that reservation off like some petty. Hey, she wanted that apology, bro. She wanted that apology. And then I had a woman as I tried to approach the plane. Do you get on a plane first or last? I get on a plane. Usually, I get on a plane first.

I got my, shout out, shout out United. I'm a, you know, a united person. So I get on first. I don't like to, I don't like to wait on a plane, right? I don't like to be sitting on there. It gets stuffy. So I like to get on last, right? So I like to get on last.

Wait. I like to get on last. Okay. Okay. Nah, I mean, like, I don't have nothing that's got to go into overhead. It's just a backpack. Like, I'm going to get on last. So as we get up and get on last, the woman at the gate, after she takes the two people in front of our tickets, she shuts the door in our face.

Like I'm standing in the door in the other lady's face. I'm in a line. I'm the last person in the line. She shut the door in our face as if to say you're not getting on the plane. That's not funny, but it's funny. Like you're over here like, what the fuck? I'm like, what the fuck? And she wasn't trying to be funny.

She was just real talk. Like, you waited too long. You ain't getting on this flight. So I had to fight with her. Damn. Like they closed the big. big, the big door to like, in my face, Logan. Like you're looking, they're looking at you.

You're like, pro, about to get on. I'm like, I'm on the plane. I have my tickets right here. She's like, nah. So you were, you were in the, you were in like the circular thing, the thing, the, I don't know what to call it, but the thing that goes into the. No, this was the gate agent. I was in the waiting. I was trying to get through the first doors to get on the like jet way.

Play to you. Play to you. So that was my experience. But I'm happy to be back. dog. Damn. It won't affect my ability to pod today.

Let's go. Oh, I know it won't, but damn. All right, for show. Okay. You know, speaking of which, speaking of planes,

the, the Bucks and the Sons have taken a plane to Milwaukee. For game six. But before we talk about game six, you like that,

Raja. I did like that. Let's talk about game five, man. Game five in which the bucks took, I just want to say real quick,

You weren't here on Thursday. We had the legend Seared Soheon. And I changed my pick. I picked the Sons to go in to win this in six. Last episode, after the Bucks won in Milwaukee, I picked it for Bucs in Six. I picked them. I said, I'm going to amend my pick.

And the Bucs showed me why in game five. They won. It was a weird game. Now, we're going to get into why they won. all these things, but I remember to start the game, the Suns went on this incredible war and they were up 16 in the first half. But then you texted,

you put it in the chat, you texted me and Sasha Mac that you had a bad feeling about this. And I was like, what are you talking about? Because I had started the exchange because I texted in the chat, Devin fucking Booker. Because Devin Booker dunked all over Janus

and he did the shoulder strut. He was locked in. He was like, I'm here. I am Devin Booker. I am not letting us lose this game look, right? And then I hit the chat, because you know, I'm really, Devin Booker is one of my favorite players in the league. And I was like,

yes, hell yes. And then you immediately takes back. I have a bad feeling about this. Why did you feel, why did you have that bad feeling so early in the game when it seemed like the Suns had all the mighty momentum to start?

You know, sometimes you have a gut feeling You know, I got back to the hotel. I had missed the first like four minutes of the game, five minutes. And then, but I was keeping up on my phone. And when I sat down, I saw the energy in the building was fantastic. The suns were flying high. And then I looked, it was 16. But I just saw the bucks with the level of poise that was concerning.

Like no one was really, you know, they weren't getting out of themselves. They continued to run offense. And if I'm going to keep it a buck, Logan, it was, they had played so well. the Sons that is and shot the ball so well. And they hadn't really run away because it was 16, but then it was back to 11. Yeah. Right? And it was 16 and then it was at nine. And I was like, this isn't going to, this isn't going to end well for the Sons because there is hot, they're hot as fish grease right now. Like everything is going to right. And they're not burying the bucks. The other thing that I thought, I thought they came out really fast. You expended a lot of energy

up front. And it's like a, you know, you know, it's like a, you know, it's like a, marathon, right? Like to use one of those silly cliches. Like you head out sprinting sometimes and you run out of gas. Not all the time, but I had that gut feeling about this one. I'm going to take a little story time, Marasha. Remember when I was a junior, no, senior in high school, Berkeley High women's basketball team. They had played a team by the name of Modern Day. I don't know if you know Modern Day where you're from Modern Day. They'd played modern day in the state title game. Berkeley was number five in the country

at the time. Modern Day was number one. Had a girl going to Yukon. They were legit. Now, we came out, and we were up like 18 to start the game, as an Arco Arena. But it didn't seem sustainable. And it was one of those leads

where it seemed like it was all adrenaline, and once things settled, the better team was going to win. And I say, and Modern Day ended up winning, and I say all that to say, I saw the same type of thing in this game five

where the sons were going all adrenaline and it did not seem sustainable. It seemed like they were feeding off the crowd, but once everybody started to lock in and relax, it was good. And you saw that in the second quarter because in the second quarter, the Bucks immediately,

you got a Bobby Port is three, you got some great play from Drew Holiday. And immediately, you look and it's they're actually up one and I'm like, what the hell? The bucks are up one? Yeah. And the bucks

and at that point from the second quarter on the bucks were in complete control of the game and I didn't think that they were going to let up even, and we'll get to this down the stretch. Even when we got down the stretch, it never seemed like the bucks were going to lose this game. It seemed like they were in control and they were the better team and they had everything that I said

that the sons had to start this series, the poise and and the moxie down the thing. That's what the Bucks had throughout the game. Did you see that? So that's like you come out in a boxing match and you hit first, like knock a dude down, boom. You think it's a rap.

He gets up off the canvas and he's unfazed. And now you're in a slug fest, right? And the suns looked like a deer in headlights. Like they thought that that rally or that early adrenaline should have put the Bucks to sleep. And I don't think they recovered. until late in the fourth quarter from that. Because late in the fourth quarter, when desperation set in,

I thought they actually played with some of that energy. It seems like when desperation sets in, it's one of those things where you, it's like when it's desperation for a basketball team is like a writer on deadline when the deadline is creeping up because you stop forgetting all that shit that you were all like, all that timidness that you have and you say, fuck it, I got to do the best I can what I got.

And I'm not tired of just being timid because you don't know what it's Is that what you saw from this team? Great analogy. Great analogy. Yes. Your best work, right? Nothing to lose. That's what your best work happens.

Yeah. Nothing to lose. Like, we got to get this done. And so, you know, I think they got, but we talked about this, right? We talked about the tightness in a series, right? The complexion of the series, I use that word all the time. But when you're at home as the son's team, and to some degree, this is what we talked about when we did that kind of pretenders, like, like segment.

When you're in a big game like that, can you? Can you stay loose enough? And I think you saw the suns tighten up because you got to get that. That's a pressure-pack game if you're the sons for obvious reasons. You lose that shit in a one, you know, best of three series. And now Milwaukee's got home court. And so they got tight and they didn't loosen up until the fourth quarter.

I would, I said this a week ago, I don't think anybody really heard me. I was on with Greenie and he asked me about Devin Booker when he was struggling and what he needed to do offensively. And I said his offense will come back. Like he's too good of a player. He has to kind of dive into some other areas of the game and help his team in other ways.

And once he does that, the offense is going to be fine. But I also cautioned against Devin Booker becoming the 40 to 50 a night player. I don't think the sons are at their best when he scores 40 to 50 points. Unless, I think unless it has to be a real rounded 40 points. It can't just be 40 points, 5 rebounded to assist. It can't be nothing like that.

that. It has to be like the Clippers type game where he has a 40 point triple double. Well, yes, clearly there are different types of 40 or 50 point games, right? And so that's a better way to put it. But when the ones where he's getting up like 33, 34 shots and it winds up being 40 and you could tell that his focus is on scoring and that's what he's there to do, I don't feel like they're at their best. I feel like he can have 30. And they're at their best when that ball's flying around, it's moving, and everyone is able to contribute to that. offensive productivity, and he's got 30. I mean, I think that's honestly every superstar to arise it.

Like, yes, every superstar can score 40, but that takes, one, takes a lot of energy. And two, it's always not really sustainable when you do that. Honestly, usually when by and large, when players are going for 40 or 50 points, is because they're overcompensating for the lack of options on their team or a lot of people aren't feeling it. So they feel like they had to overcompensate it. I didn't feel that way. I feel that way?

No, I didn't. I felt like you've been getting great production out of, at least at home, McKell Bridges. Cam Johnson was giving you really good minutes. I love Cam Johnson, by the way. Yeah, it's dope. Jay Crowder has been balling.

You know, CP3 will talk about him. He's, you know, DeAndre, there are options there when the ball is moving and players are moving. You know, Devin Booker, it's just what you like. Devin Booker is phenomenal with the ball in his hands. I would never pretend that he was anything short of that. But when you get it and you're in an ISO situation a lot, it stops the ball. And it stops opportunities at times for other players when that ball is really moving.

Yeah, Book made some incredible shots down the stretch of the game. But I just see what this Sun's team, it just seems like after those first two games, man, they have struggled to get a rhythm. And when you think about, we got to talk about Drew Holiday at a point in time, his defense. But I do want to talk about down the stretch of this game in game five. So let me paint the picture of this game. So the bucks go up. They finally take control of the game in the second quarter,

go into the third quarter. They're up like double digits. They're up 11, 13 points going into the fourth. And it seems like this is going to be an easy win. And the Sun's battle back, they hit Chris Paul was really good. down, like, it wasn't good during a game, but hit two clutch threes. And then. Tough fall away over Janus on the baseline going to.

Oh, yeah. That was tough. Yeah. And then he gets to Devin Booker. Like, I hate doing this, like, this comparison. But it absolutely was a Kobe shot where he gets the ball on that on that wing area beyond the arc and just shoots a desperation three and it's just butter. Like, you know what's going to go in when he, when he shoots it.

You knew exactly. They ran him off of that stagger coming to his right. Yeah, and he hits that three. And I think that puts the game within three. I think it was like 120, 117. And then shit gets real. Then I think they hit another three to tie. No, that's when Chris Paul hits the floater to get it to within one.

So let's paint this thing. This is when I think, oh shit, the sons might steal this game. The sons absolutely might steal this game because they have two closers. they have, I trust Chris Paul and Devin Booker down the stretch. I just do. Like, it is one of those things. But then they get it, the sons get a stop. And I think, Devin Booker has a ball in his hands.

Okay, they're going to go up in one. Devin Booker's one of those players to wear. Like, if he has a ball on his hands down the stretch, it's like him, Chris Paul, KD, Steph, LeBron, these guys that you know, they know what to do down the stretch. And you're like, if you're on the other team, you're like, oh shit, he's going to put them up one. If they are on your team, you're like, okay, we have this in the bag.

Now, Devin Booker tries to go in. He tries to go to the cup, and Drew Holiday makes the steal of the game and throws, and you knew it was coming. He gets the thing. He's out in transition. He has, he has, he has Janus on a fast break. And in between him and Janus, between Drew Holiday and Janus is Chris Paul. He's helpless. a position. You knew the lob is coming. And then Chris Paul, like, pushes Janus. And you immediately

sent the text. You could say what you sent as a text or you cannot say what you sent to think. You were not happy with that play. And there's a dunk and one. And honestly, an unnecessary foul. Just unnecessary. In my eyes, you go up three. It's still a one possession game. You do not have to foul, Janus. Let him get that. Let him get that. Let him get the dunk. Right? Yeah. We have more to talk about, but what do you have to say about this sequence? Because it was really nasty.

It was a nasty sequence. How much time was on the clock? Do you remember when that happened? I think it was like, I think it was a two for one. I think it was like 30-something seconds left. Okay. All right, because my initial, like, I didn't know the time, but my initial was like, it was really risky pass by Drew Holiday.

Like, it was. No. If you have Janus on there, you fucking throw that pass. I mean, he threw it. That's why he is who he is. That's why Janus is who he is. But I was watching with my son. I was like, oh, and it converted.

So my point about the Chris Paul. I didn't feel that way, though. I fell as soon as he shoot the throw, I was like, oh, man, he's going to dunk this. You have Yonis. I actually said as soon as I saw Yonis in the front, I was like, throw that shit, throw that shit, throw that shit. I thought he was going to circle it out. I thought he was going to circle it out, but I didn't know time. So I thought it was under 24 and they were going to have to foul.

But it's a tough one because as Chris Paul, I would have probably fouled too, Logan. Like you're caught in the middle of that. Like, you don't know. what I said about that foul was he's lucky. 13 seconds left. It was 13 seconds left. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

That was a risky play. No, risky dog, risky play. But yeah, if Drew Holiday throws that assist, if you're Chris Paul, if I'm Chris Paul,

I'm letting him get it. I'm letting him get the dunk. Why not? Well, you don't know that he's going to get it and it's, and it's Janus. So like you're,

like, if he doesn't make it because you foul him, you got Janus at the line. And you're going to have to foul anyway under 13 seconds. So what I'm saying is, I'm not even,

the foul was probably going to have to take place. It was a hell of risky play for Drew Holiday. Trust that. I mean, I did this for a long time. That was some g-shed. That was some balls shit. Yeah, he had some balls for that. And it worked.

So kudos. But it was that foul, the way Chris Paul, Chris Paul had two fouls. I told you, I like Chris Paul. He had two fouls. You see the foul that he took on Janus when Janus got it in the pain. It was a good hard foul. Yonis had gotten it like two possessions prior.

And Chris Paul grabbed his four. arm, right? He tried to dislocate that man's shoulder, bro. If you watch that play, he pulled down on his forearm as hard as he could. It's fine. Like, I'm not beefing with it. That particular play on the rim, if Yannis, I've been the victim of that. When you're off of one foot and all of your momentum is going one way, if you don't get enough of your hands on that rim to hold on to it as you're getting shoved the way Chris Paul shoved him,

it could have been a catastrophic fall from the rim, bro. Like, he could have really... And I was surprised at the time that they didn't go look at that because he made no play on anything other than Janus's waste. He just ran over there and tried to, like, with everything he had shoving... Luckily, Janus is like a fucking athletic savant,

like where he just... Did you see the pictures from that, uh, Raja? There's pictures of him just like... It's like the rim is over his head, and he's underneath it and he's like this after he gets pushed, it's amazing and he's so high off the ground. Dog, it was incredible.

I mean, again, in the heat of the moment, I'm not casting any judgment on the play. I'm simply saying that that play could have wound up being really, really different, right? That's one of those real dangerous guy in the air running full speed. If you turn and just shove him, he could wind up in a lot of places.

I just feel like there's no, I feel like either way, it's a one possession game. I'm not, I'm not fouling. Either way, it'll be a one possession game, right?

If you let Janus get that dunk, it's a one possession game. If you did foul him, you're potentially, you know, could be a flagrant. He could, like,

or he could dunk it and with 13 seconds left was a four point game instead of a three point game, right? Then you're making it harder on yourself. That's why I'm like, I wouldn't have foul.

No, I know. I'm simply saying when you've, when you've watched Devin Booker get stripped and you're falling back into trying to play a two-on-one and you see the lob go over your head,

your natural reaction is going to be to turn around and try to disrupt that. That's one of those things that's happening in real time. It's hard as shit. But I hear where you're coming from. And then Janus misses both free throws. They can't, and then your sons, Roger,

can't secure the O board. Yeah. And they get into Middleton. Drew came in and tapped it out. No, no, that was Janus who came in, who tapped that out. He tapped it out to Middleton, I believe. No, I think Janice shot the free throw.

I think Drew snuck in from... Yonis shot the free throw. Yonis shot the free throw. Then it got... Like, it got tipped hell of times. And then the final one was Janus getting it to Middleton. Janus tapped it back. But Drew was the one that kept that alive

because he came in off of the three-point circle and got a tip, put it in the air. And then Janus... That was a smart play too, bro. He didn't want to grab it. He just tapped it back so he didn't have to shoot again. Yeah. And so that's...

And I think that... When we talk about people who can't shoot free throws, like, you could still be... I think what it gets lost in that is you could still be aggressive. Yeah, you don't want to shoot the free throw. But pass somebody who can make it. That was a great he play by Yannis. And he did it, no look, too.

He just right out. I see Middleton. Don't even trip. It's right here. That was another tough one, though, because Middleton was sliding to his left. And Yonis tapped that shit to the right. And when it happened in real time, I was like, oh, he turned it over. And Chris Millington made a great play.

It was a heady play. So this is a good time to talk about this. Janus struggles at the free throw line, right? And Janice's trajectory as a player, to some degree, is going to be affected by whether he can get that jumper together. Here's my take on Janus's jumper. When you see Janice shoot that. Let's paint the picture a little bit better, Roger, because we did. Let's bring, like not let's bring Sasha into this, but Sasha started this off.

So let's make a picture of this, right? And we're talking about Janus's before the pod in the chat. we're talking about Janice's goat potential. And if this guy has all the tools, he has two MVPs. Honestly, if he wins this, if the Bucks win this, he has to get finals MVP. There's no, there's no. So two MVP is a finals MVP, a chip at 26, 27. And I mean, I'm not going to say he can't be the greatest of all time.

I'm not going to say he can't be in the conversation. He has like at least eight more years to play. if he can he can go on a run theoretically. I mean, he could. I'm one of those guys. I mean, Goat is a really, I mean, that's. He could, he could etch himself into the top ten all time, I believe. He could do that.

He could do that. And again, I think to some degree at least, it's going to, you know, whether he rounds out at offensive arsenal or not is going to help with that. His jump shot's not broken. We said all that for me to say this, in my opinion. It's not broken because I see him. He's got really nice touch on it when he's not thinking about it, meaning when he's in that mid post and he's shooting that one-legged fall away.

Or sometimes when he's around that elbow area and he knows he's going to be aggressive and he pulls up. Like those aren't bad. When he has to think about shooting a three, it looks awful, right? Goes in sometimes. When he has to think about shooting those free throws, you can tell it's uncomfortable, right? And it's not great. But I don't think his jump shot is a broken thing.

It just seems to be something that he's to some degree uncomfortable with when he's in his own head about it. And if he can get out of his own head about it, I think he can find a jump shot. I'm getting a feeling right now with Yannis that he's just starting to see. He's just starting to take that next step in his career. He's just starting to take that next thing as like, obviously he's been a talented dude. He's been averaging 30 and 10 or close to those numbers for the last few years. But it seems like, and, you know, I was in Milwaukee last week. Shout to Milwaukee.

And I was like looking and I watched his game and it just seems like he's just, the cliche, it's slowing down for him. It's starting to, right? Where he's starting to get to his spots and you can't fucking stop him. Like, I'm getting into my stats down to pain. You know what I'm doing. You know I'm doing this. the fucking spin move and you know I'm getting into the lane. It doesn't matter what you do. You know I'm in transition and I'm doing this Euro step where I literally go from the three point line

to the paint and there's nothing you can do to stop it. But it's becoming to be more refined right now. And I can see in the next few years like you could get to like 35% from three. Like I don't, you don't need him to get to 40. You don't need them to. But I, you start to see that, Raja, with the fadeaways that he's doing. He's really comfortable with that fade away now to where It doesn't, it seems like, okay, this is his shot now. This is something that he's going to. So when you think about that, like, me, you and Sasha were talking about this pre-show. Like, we're obviously comparing him to LeBron because that is the go to this generation.

You know, we could just point blank, in my opinion. And we're comparing them to. And the jump shot got brought up. And I'm like, yo, when LeBron was 26, his jump shot was broke as fuck. It was. But what did he do? MJ's, MJ didn't have a,

MJ was a scorer when he came in attacking the basket. Like that jump shot got refined over time. His jump shot wasn't as sweet as it, like the 90, it wasn't the 96-97 jumper where he was in a bag, right? Nah, his shot, his shot was broke.

But he could get it every once in a while, but you wanted Jordan shooting threes then. Like, same with LeBron. So I feel like we see a lot of this with Janus. It has, I think we live in a generation where it has to be absolutes. Like you have to be this. Like, we all see LeBron as a finished product and we see Jordan as a finished product.

And we want Janus to be something like that at 26. Bro, he's so good that he got two MVP's just figuring the game out. Like, give him some time. What you just said there is absolutely right. The players evolve. And you continue to grow every year. The grades do. They continue to add something to their repertoire.

I think Janice, aside from the jumper, which I do believe has legs. I do believe his jumper has, he will continue to get better at that. A lot of those guys, what they also figure out is it's easier sometimes to not have the ball in your hand so much and do the lion's share of the ball handling and play creating off the bounce because there are five sets of eyes glued to you there. Mike was able to kind of extend brilliance by getting into that mid-block figuring out how to be more. efficient. Less is more, you know. And so Janus, as he continues to grow as a player, he's got the opportunity and the ability to get downhill. Obviously, he's a freak of nature when those guys, those big come out and guard him. But I think you'll see him continue to get better

on that low block with his back to the basket. Just, just fade away you're shooting off the dribble off one bounce. You shoot the same fadeaway with no dribbles. You can. You catch that thing on the post. I also can't wait to see like the counter moves of these fadeaways. He gets like the, the, the, The pump fake. The up and under. That's going to open up a whole other bag. Yes. He'll continue to grow, man.

And he will be, you know, goat is tough, but he could definitely submit himself in top of it. He will be one, and if not already, one of defining players of this generation. That is just what it is. But I just feel like even the people that we compare him to, right? We're comparing him to Kevin Durant, who is, I think, the best player in the league right now,

for sure when he's healthy. but do we compare him to Kevin in his 30s right now and we forget that like Kevin had to get stronger back of the day like he had to figure out his game too but we look at all these we're comparing him to and all these absolutes to these players that are honestly of a different generation in him right now even when you compare him to LeBron

LeBron's about to be out of the league in a few years KD has a few more years too but these guys are like I don't feel like Janus is being compared to his contemporaries He's being compared to a generation above him. So once they get out of the paint, he's going to be the best player in the league

if he stays at this trajectory. You know what bothers me? What's up? Sorry, I don't mean to hijack. Tell me why I'm mad. Let's tell you why I'm mad. Tell me why you mad, rather. Like, I got to turn on.

You're comparing Janus to LeBron, M.J., KD. I got to sit on, I got to sit up in the crib and listen to people say that Janice ain't even the best player on his team. Hey, hey, some are friends of the show who we love, by the way. I do, I do love. I do love Perk. And there's very few times where I disagree. I like what Perk has to say.

But hear me now. You can miss me with all of that shit. Straight up. I'm making no bones about this. I am here for none of the Janus is not the best player on that team. Janus is Robin. Miss me with that. If anybody, the invitation is open, you could come on the real ones,

and we could do this shit face-to-face. Or... It's love, bro. We're talking sports, bro. No, I'm not just fucking with Perk. But Perk's not the only one. There are other people. They make that argument.

And I'm here for none of that. I don't... You can't even support that. Now, you could say that, you know, Chris Middleton closes some games. You know, you could say that. And Chris Middleton is... I'm not taking anything away from Chris Middleton.

I am a fan as well. But you can't be telling me that he... That Yannis is not the man on that team. I can't do that. I just... When you go into that... And I think we're starting to see this during the postseason and the finals, man.

Like, if you didn't know already, you know now. Don't matter what any other player does on the Bucks, the Bucks are Yannis's team. It's Yonis' team. It's his identity. It's what he, you could see it during the press conferences, you could see it during the game itself. This is Yonis's team.

You know it's Yonis' team, because every make or miss from the, from the role players in every, everyone around him is a refer. Every miss or make is a referendum on Janus's game. Because, well, what's up? Bro, I'm not, you know how it's Janus's team? I know. Watch the fucking game.

Yeah. That's how you know what's Jan. I'm not here for any of that shit. You ain't got to, it's Yonness and see, watch a game. This is for the people. This ain't for you. This is for the people. I was just saying this because of the people. That's how he did I get, though. My bad. That's how he did I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I'm just like, man. Yeah. Everything revolves around.

I'm down Janice, bro. Like, it's, it's, the reason why Chris Middleton is on that team, we love Chris Middleton. We,

me and Roger love Chris Middleton. No, the reason why he stays on that team is because Janus wants him on the team. You know why Drew Holiday, who's making great plays and has been one of the players of this series is on the team?

Because Yianna said that a coupo. Right? Like, this identity, and also he's gotten, Yonis has gotten criticized and the Bucks have gotten criticized for this.

this, the reason why the team identity is because it is because Janice said, I love these players and I want to play with them. And it got criticism when they were signed. Do we think Drew Holiday was going to be this much of a difference maker? I can't say I did. You did. Roger? Roger is a basketball fissionado. He does. I'm just somebody who watches the shit for a living. That's it. Like, you actually played in the trenches. You knew. But by and large, there was a narrative out there that, like, Drew Holiday is not going to bring them over to top. He's not Chris Paul. should have got winning guy in Chris Paul. Chris Middleton.

We know how maligned he is. We know what I've said about Chris Middleton, right? Also, Raja, I don't know if you were looking. I asked Chris Middleton a question during the NBA finals, right? I didn't see it, would you? You didn't see it? So I asked him a question. I was like, you know, you've been much.

This is the question I asked that you're probably going to look at be hell of funny. I said, you know, you've been, you know, much maligned throughout the postseason and throughout the season, just for the simple fact that like, you know, playing alongside Janus and, you know, you get the criticism, but you have been playing well. But to do what you did, it was after game four, to do what you did on this sage or in this moment, does that take a weight off of your shoulders? Is what I asked him, right? And he said, he didn't like, I don't, I don't think he listens to real ones.

I don't know. But he said, I don't care about what you. He don't think of listen to us. He was like, I don't care what y'all think. I don't care what anybody thinks. And it was the first time where I actually heard from a player, and I believed him when he said it, that he don't give a fuck about what he says.

But that was funny with Middleton. And I was like, I love you. I love you, Chris Middleton. I love you, Chris Middleton. I love you. But all this, all everything is around Yannis. If Yonis didn't want anybody on the team, they wouldn't be on the team.

He loves Chris Middleton. He loves Drew Holiday. And if he can win in this way, I don't think this is looked at enough. If he can win with this type of, up a team with two, with Middleton, who I think history will see him as a better than what I at some points thought he was going to be. But if you see him, see him win with this team, a team that a lot of people didn't think he was going to win because there's only one generational

talent on a team. I think history will look at Yannis a lot more fonder and look at this team a lot more fonder in next few years. What you think? First of all, Chris Middleton is a hell of a player, not only offensively, but yeah, but he's a two-way player. I mean, he's out there, you know, he's, he's long, uh, rangy defensively. Drew Holiday. I mean, it's somewhere in the file. Somebody can look back and find it, but, uh, Drew Holiday is a, I don't know what happened to drew earlier in the series, like with the confidence shooting the ball and offensively. And we said, he was guarding Chris Paul. Yeah, maybe that's what, maybe that's all it was. But we, he had to continue to be better for them to have a chance. And he's done that. Well, he said he

was tired during the during the, during the first few. Like it was just exhausting covering Chris Paul. Like, which makes sense. Yeah. I could see that. He's been, he's been brilliant the last few games.

And, you know, I did think he was the type of player that could help them get over the, the, the, the, the, the,

the, the, the, I don't know that he's a number one option on the championship team, but that's not what he needs to do here. He, he needs to be what he was in the last couple games.

Um, so I think, I think the roster is better than people give it credit for. Now, it does not have multiple generational talents, but it's a really talented roster. Like, now, now, you know, we live in a day and age where you've got Kyrie, James Hardin, and Kevin Durant on the team.

So I can, like, it's all relative, right? But I do think when you're talking about Chris Middleton and Drew Holiday, while not generational talents, super talented, all-star players with Janice, who is, There's two-time MVP.

I think they're better than people give them credit. I have a question. How does this look like, how does this, like say if the Bucks won it all, right? They're a team that is built around one, like I said, generational talent. How are we going to look at how we build rosters from now on to where you're not as,

you're dependent on a star, but you're not dependent on like three stars? Do you think that that's going to change how we look at like how we want to build super? Is it like, does this spell the end of the super team era? I don't think so, but I think it's a question worth asking. I do think it's a great question. And I think people are going to have to start, like, it's Copycat League.

People are going to have to start looking into what their finances are, what type of flexibility you lose when you put three stars of that magnitude on a team. Also, how much pressure it puts on your organization? Absolutely. You're in win now mode, like, from one night to the next. Like, it's just the whole. Without having to develop in a normal way, like throughout the years. Absolutely.

And so, you know, I take it a step forward. you have two teams doing that right now. You're your two finals teams, right? Like, you could say Chris Paul is a generational talent, but he is at the end of that rope to some degree, right? And Devin Booker's not there yet. Like, he's ascending into that, right? Like, he is on the rise.

I can't wait to see what Devin Booker does next year. No, and I don't mean, like, I hope no one takes that for being something that's not. Yeah, he's still young. It's in front of them. The sons are ahead of schedule, man. Yeah, so. So to your initial question, you have two teams right now doing it without super teams.

And I do think in a league where, you know, people look around and take note to what someone else is doing and try to copycat that, you are going to have people reevaluating whether it makes sense to have three. Three on a team. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I wonder how that is. I also like, man, it's, I mean, I think this is the NBA that a lot of like, as criticizes and skeptics of the super teams. this is the finals that they wanted.

Let's just be honest. This is the finals that they wanted. And thank gosh, thank God it's a great finals. This has been legitimately a great finals to watch in general. But I think this is a dove for the people that say like, yo, man, we were tired of watching the Warriors and this and like this, this influx of talent on one team. We wanted to see a more solid team with, you know, with role players and things like that.

we wanted to see something that seems a bit more attainable. And I wonder how that's going to reverberate around the league in the next two years, man, because next year you're going to have those super teams come back. You're going to have the Lakers come back. You're going to have Brooklyn come back with a bit more rest. You're going to have – I wouldn't call the Warriors a super team anymore, but the Warriors are going to be in the mix. We're just going to have all these things, right?

You're going to have all these types of things. And I'm curious how the landscape is. going to go because it's funny because you see even with the super teams the mortality of these super teams because if one guy goes down and I think that's one of the things if one guy goes down that spells doom for the rest of the team right whereas if you see the bucks or um the bucks Jonas had a knee injury they were able to weather the storm for a game or a couple games without him yep and I don't know like I'm curious to see how that works out man I really Yeah, it's going to be really interesting.

And I think if your super teams bounce back next year and you're talking about Brooklyn and the Lakers in the finals, it's a different conversation than one we just had a second ago, right? Because your super teams have won it. But to the point you made, it's a really good point about mortality. And if one guy goes down, it's not just because it's a brilliant player that's going down. And he means so much to what you do. It's because to keep that brilliance, you have to go out and spend less on depth. Right. And so you don't have someone behind that that's, that's, you know, at least partly

capable of doing what he is. You probably you have a minimum guy behind him, you know, and it's hard. You know, some of these teams are built with good depth. Like, you're not losing a ton going from the number one option to the number two option, right? Like, you're losing, but not a ton. But even when, like, even when you think about, like, the warriors and stuff, right, they didn't have much depth, but they had Andre Godaula. Right. Yeah. They had like, they didn't have depth like that. And, you know, I'm curious to see how like that's going to, who's going to be that other person for the Brooklyn Nets or, you know, I think the Lakers have a bit more depth than that.

But like, you know, with the Brooklyn Nets is a great case study because I'm wondering how they're going to be when who's going to emerge is the other guy. They need one more other guy besides the big three. They need one more guy. We'll see what happens, man. Just take a quick break And I want to preview this game six Now, Roger, we are on the eve of game six And on the eve would might possibly

Might bear it possibly be the last game of the NBA season If the Bucks can win a title How do you, if the Bucks win a title? What happens? What are the ripple? I want to look at the ripple effects of this. I want to start with the Sons. What do you, what are the Ripple?

Triple effects for the Sons real quick. If they lose this, right? Like, they're a team that it's, it's, they're, they're a team where they're ahead of schedule, but they have a lot of question marks. Honestly, their front court depth needs to improve. Like, they can't just go another season with just Aiden and then just some dudes behind him. Need a legitimate, I would love to see like Dwight Howard on that team. But what do you think happens if they lose?

Like, do you think that they're still in the. mix next season? It's a great question. Are they title contenders next season? Yes. Title contenders, not favorites, in my opinion, to come out of the West. I wouldn't put them in that mix next year. You know, they have some interesting, like, Chris Paul's got a player option next year,

is it? He's got a player option. I think, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, they've got decisions to me. Chris Paul being probably, you know, what you're going to do there as he continues to age. And he's going to want security for sure. Like I imagine him like not, not picking up that option and wanting a contract. Right. What do you, what do you do there? And then addressing that front court depth is probably going to be, you know, the most paramount. Well, Chris is, Chris is the first and foremost, right? Where you're going to go there? Robert Sarver, you know, like I gave him love earlier in the playoffs, but hasn't always been willing to go out there and, and, and,

open the pocket up, you know? So how's he going to operate around that? And if they get Chris Paul back, they are a contender. Got to deal with that depth in the front court, though. This is how you maintain, like, to your point about Sarver, and this is something that he hasn't necessarily done in past years. You, Roger, you know this. You played when the last time the sons were this good.

This is how you maintain contenders, man. You've got to spend money. spend money smartly in a smart way. So I just, I don't know, I think they have a, I think they might have another crack at it. If they can get front court depth, I would like, I would love to see a backup center like Dwight on, on this team, you know, who I think it would be good. It'd be huge. They're going to need to address that backup point court too because Cameron Payne's looking

to get paid. Oh, 100%. Do you, would you take campaign if you're the sons right now? Like, obviously, campaign's doing the damn thing. He's been killing it. Do you re-sign him? Yeah. I mean, yeah.

That's a Monty Williams guy. And he's one of those guys to me where, like, money, he's good because Monty Williams got him to a place where he's good. And Monty is going to want to keep that because he's gotten the best out of him. And if you're going to, if you're going to sign, you almost have to sign two people when you sign Chris Paul, right? Because he can't play the amount of minutes and carry the amount of load he's carried. If you're going to extend him into the Twilight of.

his career. You're going to have to load manage, and then you're going to have to have a really good backup to him that you trust. So as you sign him, you're essentially signing two players, him and a good backup PG. Yeah, I agree with you because I wouldn't even be surprised if next year, Chris Paul average is like 12 and 7, and that'll be okay. That's fine, as long as he's good in the postseason. For the bucks, man, like, if they win this title, what does that do? Do they, I don't, it's, can they repeat if they win this title? I don't know. But it'll be great for that reason, though. Like, Milwaukee has just been forgotten for so many years.

It would just be great. And to see it firsthand how Milwaukee feels about that postseason, it's always fun to see a city that hasn't, like, won it in the finals. You saw that in Cleveland to where they're just, like, they're chopping at the bit. Like, we just want to be on this stage. How is it if they win this title? You know, because you've been around Cleveland and you've been around these small market cities where that is what that's their shine. And this is, we're only going to get one 15 year run. And we don't know when we're going to get this again.

What is that like when they're at the stage? I mean, it's a great time to be in said city. Let's start there. I mean, when those towns are having success and those teams are winning, I mean, it is, it just means so much to the region and the market. you know and and you know to some degree there are two there are two things that kind of dictate how long your windows open there or how how effective you are coming back the second year would be the franchise's willingness to keep that run going that means spending money right that means their guys are locked in they got they got middleton locked in bobby porters Bobby porters is going

to be up like he'll he'll opt out at 3.8 i would imagine right and yeah also a real one love bobby porthus yeah bobby portis is dope um so but continuing, like not being satisfied with what that looks like is what I mean, Logan, right? Like not being, it's going to be hard to run it back with exactly the same pieces. So is there something out there where, you know, it makes sense, you know, to do what you got to do to continue moving forward? And then how hungry is Janice and Chris Middleton? Is that we got a chip, we did it, we're good, or are you able to come back to camp because you're relatively young and double down on like we want to keep this? moving. And that's not an easy thing.

Like, you know, you talk to anybody who's won multiple championships, I have not. But when I talk to Rip Hamilton and LeBron and James Jones and all those dudes, it's exhausting. So, you know, can you stay focused and stay hungry? And that ultimately, you know, determines. By the way, I saw Jukes in Milwaukee. I went up and introduced myself to Jupes. Did you call him Jukes? What do you say when you're calling Jules?

He said, what's up? And I, like, he was like, what the fuck? And I was like, no, I do a podcast in Roger Bell. It's like, oh shit, cool. That was great dude, though, man. Like great dude. In front of the show. In front of the, A, Phoenix.

Phoenix, Phoenix, Sons, if your PR staff is listening, we need Jukes on the pod if you guys win. But we need Jukes on the pod in general. I mean, give Julie Fye a shout out, right? Julie Fye is, I think she's still in Phoenix. I think she is the best of the best. And I've been around some really good people and been blessed to have some really good PR.

Julie is the best. Word. So we need jubes on the show front of the show, even if it's next year. He's coming on the show. But, yeah, it wouldn't it be kind of wild if out of all these super teams, the Bucks were like the dynasty out of this? I don't think it's going to happen.

But like, if they win this title here and then like they just catch all these teams on the back, just because they're on the back into their primes, like LeBron and Katie are just on the back and they just don't win another one. If Milwaukee just sneaks in a couple titles right here, be crazy. fun. That could be fun. I'm just going to say this. So in Brooklyn Nets next year,

you better watch out. Hey man. Milwaukee, get it now. Get it now. Sons, get it now. Whichever one of you gets it. Get it now. Yeah, for sure. Because the Warriors are coming. The Brooklyn Nets are coming.

They're ready to go. So that's what's kind of fascinating for me. Lakers are coming, Sasha, I know. These aren't two, these aren't two teams that like, these are two teams that are both like we need, if we're going to get one, We need it right now. We need it right now.

That's why this could go seven because both teams know like, yo, this is, we're here, we need it. Yep. All right,

man. This may be so pumped for game six. I'm very excited, man. I can't wait to watch. I'm so juiced. That's been another edition of ruins. You can catch us Monday and Thursday,

but that might be changing soon, by the way. Just, you know, let me announcement here and there. That might be, you know, it might be,

Might be a little change is coming soon. But in the meantime, we will see you guys Thursday. But first, make sure you check out everything on the Ringer Slate. Make sure you follow Ringer MBA on all social platforms. Make sure you check out group chat mismatch, the answer. Make sure you check out Black Girl Songbook with who, Roger Bell? Town legend, Danielle Smith. Make sure you check out R2C2 with who, Roger Bell.

Vallejo legend, Cresi, C, Cibald. C, Cibatia. Make sure you check out the Ringer Music Show, which is a new episode coming out tomorrow, which I am on, by the way. We're talking about Space Jam. Talk about Space Jam with Charles Holmes. And Grace Spelman, shout out to Grace. Also check out the Ringerverse, who with Van Lathen, with Mallory, with Charles Holmes. Sometimes Jemey, who we haven't seen in a long time.

I haven't seen Jemey. And we'll see you guys on Thursday, man. Hala.