The Ringer NBA Show - What’s Behind the Recent Burst of Historic NBA Stat Lines? Plus Sam Amick Returns to Discuss the “Wonky” Western Conference. | Real Ones

Episode Date: January 5, 2023

Logan and Raja are back to discuss the NBA’s recent barrage of historic individual scoring performances and the reasons it’s happening so consistently (1:02). Later, Sam Amick, senior writer for The Athletic, returns to the show to talk about the Suns’ struggles (23:50), the Mavericks exceeding expectations, (45:09), and the Nuggets’ chances at a title run this season (57:45). They wrap up with a brief update on the Atlanta Hawks situation (62:12). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Associate Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone, it's Ariel Hawani. And I'm Chuck Mindenhall. And I'm Pizie Carroll, and together we are three-pack. Join us on the brand-new Spotify Live app immediately after all of the biggest fights in combat sports. And also during the way-ins, because that's when the real drama happens. So what are you waiting for? Follow the Ringwere M-M-A show right now on our exclusive Spotify podcast feed. And come join the best community in M.A.

Peace! We're out of here. What's popping? Logan Murdoch here, Rosabell. there, 2023 real ones back. How you doing, Rob? Yeah, I'm good, baby. You know, I'm, uh, what resolutions are abundant. Yeah.

None have been, none have been stuck to so far, but, uh, yeah, we got a little time. I mean, it's only five days in. That's it. We got a lot time. We got a little time, man. It's all good. I wanted to talk about it to start, man. Since we've been gone, there have been crazy historic stat lines, specifically in the,

in the scoring realm, O.G. Kerm put together a list. You know, it was Janus dropped 55, 25 on January 3rd, 55, 10, and 7. The next night, 30, 20, and 10. Donovan Mitchell, 71 points, 8 rebounds and 11 assist. Clay, 54 the other night. Luca, 60, 21, and 10. Karnham put in a great blurb up in the chat.

Just gave us a little whoop. He said last season, there were 19 total 50-point or higher games in this season, last season. And this season, we're already at 14. I mean, obviously, right, you played in the league. And you played in a time where it wasn't as high scoring as we are right now. And there was obviously rule changes that are different. But what would you attribute to now just these crazy scoring binges by these guys? Some of it's just, you know, it is what it is, right?

Like I don't have the word for that. Like the timing of it. It's just, you know, sometimes you have these pockets of time in any said sport where people are just going crazy in a way that they weren't. Before there's a piece of that. But, you know, bigger picture, deeper than that. We are looking at a league of people. I think this spans probably the landscape of sport.

People are, and athletes are bigger, they're stronger, they're faster. They're more dialed in, more dialed into these specific athletic movements and the strengthening in those areas. They're more dialed in than we ever were, or than any way. whenever it was. Like, this is really specific sport. Science. Here's how I'm training you.

You know, I joke, right? Like, I don't have a long pod today because I'm going to San Antonio with my son for the National Combine. And no, it's okay. But as this relates to that, because over the last two months, he's specifically trained for the events, right? We're not talking about, hey, man, you're going to get a lift. Hey, man, you're going to get, let's work on these plios.

This is specific shit. And so I think there's some of that going on in terms of this scoring. guys are training and have skill sets that are unlike any error we've ever seen. You could hear Steve Kerr, when we had him on, say, you know, the basketball and the players are more skilled than they've ever been. You can look at that. I reference it a lot where, you know, a player like myself in an era past, I kind of had a box that I fit into offensively.

Yeah. There are very few guys with boxes. There's some. Don't get me wrong. But there are a lot of dudes at 10, 11. 12 on your roster that if you put the ball in their hands and said, hey, create something for me. That's what they do. Because these guys have refined skill sets that are better than any other era.

And then, you know, rule changes for sure. There used to be spots on the court, Logan, that it was going to be really difficult. That's what Alan Iverson. That's why what he did was so impressive. Yeah. Because he was going in there, finishing in the paint at 6'1, a buck 80 against when we played, let's say Indiana, Dale Davis and Antonio Davis. Two seven footers that were mean and were two 75, 280 plus and were told to knock you down and pick

yourself up. Like knock him down, make him get himself up and shoot free throws. That doesn't exist in the same way. So they're not areas of the floor that are no-goes for certain people. Just by the nature of analytics, rosters have been constructed a certain way. And also kind of how we call foul, right? Just even that, right? Because you talk about Dale Davis, who's a guy that would, or Oakley is another example.

Not to say they weren't skilled. You know, Oak was a very skilled passenger and could shoot the jumper at top of the key. But, like, also, they were guys that would rough you up in the paint. It was punitive to go in there. They were, there were real ramifications physically for thinking that you were tough enough to go in there amongst the Oakley's, the Anthony Mason's, even the Pat Ewens, Rick Smiths. you take the lamb beers and and uh you know all of those cartwright would fuck you up like there were guys that were out there saying yo this is big big men own this shit this is my space that's the way we were taught this is my domain

even though i wasn't a big so it was punitive and you're right the rule changes you know not not just like defensive three seconds or hand checking or stuff like that but you're talking about the flagrant foul and what could be deemed flagrant even though you come across and make a hard challenge to send a message. Like, there's a lot that goes into why it is, I'm not going to say easier to score now, but why scoring is up the way it is. Because it ain't easy to get them buckets, but there are reasons why the buckets are being gotten.

That makes sense. I was watching the Donovan Mitchell game where he scored 71. And I'm just looking at these players offensive bags in general. It's totally different from, you know, the bag that an Isaiah Thomas would have had. and Isaiah Thomas was a great score in his day, but I'm seeing, you know, left hand off of the opposite foot type layups, right? It was a no-no. When we learned to play basketball, if you did that, you got kicked out of a gym.

I tell my kids all the time, when I played in high school, I had this weird, you know, I scored a lot of points, and I didn't have a ton of, like, handles and skill, but I was averaging like 28, 29 a game in high school. I was long, and I figured out that if I would just be going full, speed and I got in the air off of one leg that wherever that took me, if I could master like shooting a jump shot off of that, that it was going to be really hard to guard. So in effect, it was the Dirk runner. It was the Steve Nash runner off of one leg. It was what Kevin Durant does. Real talk. This is what I did in high school. I got to Boston University and my high school, my college coach hated it.

He wouldn't let me shoot it. He told me it was a charge waiting to happen. I would leave the floor off of one leg. I wasn't in balance. And so he's, he's, he's, went about like systematically taking that out of my game. So to your point, shit like that, that creativity, it was in a lot of instances, not just not taught, but it was, it was demonized, bro. Don't do that. Yeah. Your coach's hate that. No, but if you shot a left handed foot off the left foot, people would be like, yo, I still sometimes watching my son's play will be like, Ty, you're on your left foot with your left hand. And, and I'll have to catch. myself and be like, dude, what the fuck? Why do you care?

Like, that's, he'll, that'll come out of his bag in an instance where he needs it and it's beauty. Let it go. There are three players that I think of, just off of the top of the head. And the list is growing as I'm thinking about it. But just when I think about players that have changed just the offensive bag in general in this era, I think about a Steve Nash. I think about a Steph Curry. I think about a Manu Knoe Genobley. guys and a Kevin Durant as well. I can put him in that conversation. Just changed the way.

Dirk Nevinsky. See, my list is just going. Yeah, sure. As much as it keeps going. I remember talking to Rico Hans. He's an assistant now with the Raptors. And he also does a really great summer runs program in UCLA. Rico's with us in Golden State when I was there.

So I'm getting to that, right? So he was the assistant when Steph was a rookie. He was an assistant coach on the Warriors when Steph was a rookie when you were there. And a lot of other guys were there. But he was telling me how like back then Steph would fucking shoot, try to shoot floaters from like top of the key. Or like, and then coaches would be like, yo, what are you doing, bro? That's not a good shot. And Steph just being very defiant.

And a Steph way would just keep shooting them. And people would be like, what are you doing? But now 10, 15 later, years later, you're seeing like guys, it's routine to see guys practice their half court three-point shots or practice the left-hand layup that I referenced, right, where they're just going off the opposite foot. Rajan Rondo is another guy that I would say that is like, that is, you know, around the rim that just was just such a craftsman around the rim and would just get it. Rod Strickland.

There's these, these singular guys that would just say, just defy what coaches were telling them were just the norm of that and just kind of push the game to the next level. Well, absolutely. Those are some great names. And the interesting part to me is trying to figure out whether a Rod Strickland that is innate and natural and something that he does organically or if someone was breaking that down for him. And when I say that, I don't just mean like the English on the rim or the any X, Y, and Z move combo like between in and out. Like none of that. What they're teaching people now is, is how Rod Strickland does it. Not necessarily what Rod Strickland does or what Kyrie does. They're breaking down micro skills. I see it all the time. I got young kids.

I follow a lot of trainers. They're talking and explaining what a negative step is and how that affects your ability to get by your man. Dig steps. You're manipulating the ball in these hang. No one ever taught me that shit. Like you either did. There's a layup line.

I mean, you did it or you didn't, right? you could either manipulate the ball and let it spin in your hand or or you couldn't do that, right? But no one was, there was a whole generation of kids that are being taught how to like let the ball hang so, so that, so that you can either make a read or get someone to lean some way and then come back or how to take a dig step. I mean, there are any number of things. Clearly, I'm not a trainer. But I see these dudes like, you know, like Rico and like Phil Handy and there's a dude named Michael Lancaster that I follow on. These are things that an ordinary player with average athleticism couldn't tap into 25 years ago. Do you know how I know that?

He played 25 years ago. And I was ordinary and average athletic and I couldn't tap into that. So I couldn't unless I would just had this beautiful mind and I could watch a player and dissect every little thing he did like Kobe had the ability. to do that, I think, with MJ. I couldn't, I didn't work like that. Unless I could do that, I didn't have access to, like, all of this information. These kids and these players are getting so much dialed in information about how to efficiently

and effectively execute offensively that there's no, it's not a coincidence that they're able to produce offensively the way they do. This is a science now, bro. This is, this is an art form science hybrid. Well, it's interesting, right? Because, I mean, you got kids and, you know, I got siblings and cousins. Like, they are so influenced every day to work with algorithm and to work how to work on their game, right? Because of the little homies in the bail household, all probably have access to that.

So on one video, they're seeing Michael Vic, you know, running and doing just a highlight, right? On the other one, they're seeing Pat Mahomes talking about your son who plays football, seeing Pat Mahomes throw in the way that he does. and they're putting all of these influences and all these images that they see, right? And I'm sure Pops is showing them a documentary about a such and such player. So they're downloading that information.

I think it's the same thing in basketball, right, where you have all of this information and the evolution of how media works, this is just influencing all these kids into being like, oh, I want to be like Zion, but also I loved how Jordan did this. And then also, did you see what the fuck, judges did? Like, I want to do all of these things where as even in my generation, I'm like Gen Z,

but like at least of my age group and what I've seen is we were the last kids to have like, last kids to have the remnants of which you had, Roger, which is like, you know, a telephone, a house phone or whatever, right? Or like, and have just a certain version of the internet before YouTube. And so we have that part of those influences. But then we have the influences of YouTube and seeing all these things like the TikTok. age. All these young kids, they have the TikTok age and they can see, they have what we had, plus so much more. So it's interesting how that gets influence on the court because you absolutely see the influence from the internet to on the court faster than it's ever been. These kids are

watching and digesting high level skill breakdown all day long in some cases, all day. So if you are really about that life and you really love that, it's all at your fingertips. Now it's in, and bits and pieces, right? Because, you know, no trainer's going to give away his full program to you for free. But you can access their full programs in a lot of instances on their link tree or what have you. So, like, you can literally have that phone and have access to a whole curriculum of building your, let's say, pressure beating skills as a point card in a way that you and I would just have to go find bits and pieces or our favorite player. You know, sometimes you tape that shit on VHS and come on and try to watch that shit. had to go to like Barnes and Noble and find one video, right?

Or had to go to like, and you know, you had to, it was hard to find film on people, especially like, you know, you had to tape a full game. There was no highlights package unless you went on Sports Center. Now, like, bro, the whole, the whole game is highlights. So, and that goes to your point about AAU a few weeks back where, you know, I don't want to get you, you, you turn during the, the high, the first part of the year. But like, it's just, you know, it's a different, just a different time all the way around. I also think, and I have this argument.

I don't mean this sounds stupid, but it's probably stupid. The brain is a very powerful thing, man. It's a very powerful thing. And I was talking to my son the other day about his dunking, right? And when you're on the precipice of dunking, which he was, your brain hasn't accepted the fact that, yo, I can do this. It's still trying to figure out whether you can physically do that or not, right? even though you're not going to jump appreciably higher between today and two days from now when you actually make your first dunk.

I mean, there's not much you can do to make yourself that much bouncier in two days, right? But as soon as you dunk that ball two days from now, right, with no difference in ability, the brain now says, well, I dunk. So now every time you go up to dunk, guess what you're doing? You want to dunk. Well, you're dunking that shit now. Now you're not missing the dunks half the time because your brain is just, calibrated and said, you know, that's what we do. And I think you see some of that with people's ability to shoot with just pure range and just

accepting, like some things are possible in a way that if we just accept that it's okay to do it, we can do it. When in past generations, it wasn't acceptable to do that. For instance, like, I'll use Dia again. And this, this draws a straight parallel line to like the basketball community. Like throwing a football, Logan, when you grew up to throw a football, when you grew up and you were being taught to throw football, your release was probably high, you're like up over your ear, it was very linear.

Like, and today, like, I was fascinated as he grew up. I'm like, man, I don't see a lot of quarterbacks throwing like that, like in the NFL anymore. I see this more natural kind of motion. All this RPO guys got to throw it from down, like, and sometimes flip it out to the side. You know, like, and Dia's teachers early were fighting, fighting, fighting. And I'd always tell him, I said, look, bro,

their mechanics, just like a jump shot, that have to be met. Fundamentals have to be in place, right? But as you master fundamentals, don't limit yourself to, like, don't limit yourself. Nobody says you throw sidearm all the time. But what if you have to, right? So if you have to, we got to accept that we can. I played football back when I was in high school. I wasn't good a deal.

But I do remember when I was throwing because I play quarterback. And I remember when I was when I was throwing because I had three quarter release. Okay. And everyone tried to get me to damn near throw over my head. You know? And I was like, well, nah, like the three-quarter release is way more comfortable for me. And what is the, and to my, in my vantage point, it was like, yo, what's more important? Like, my form of the completion.

Or getting it where it needs to go, right? Or getting it to where it needs to go, right? Like, also, I'm tall. I can get, I'm taller in all my linemen. I can get it over them, even with the three-quarter. So what's the big deal? But we were so gung-ho on getting. like getting this perfect,

perfect Dan Marino form. And it's similar to like, like for baseball, like everybody want to get the King Griffey, uh, king griffy, uh, swing, right? But it's not always like the Clay Thompson, Ray Allen jump shot. It's not always like that, right? Like, we see Steph right now. Is he in the best form? No.

It's, it's basically a push shot, but it goes in. So like, if somebody was to tell him like, you need to, to shoot like, like Ray Allen, then it would have been a problem. So, I think that we do need to, like, I think we're starting to find that mix a lot more now. Oh, for sure. And I think that that piggybacks just off of what I said about the brain. It's all about belief.

It's all about believing in whatever it is that you're doing and having just unshakable confidence in it that comes from reps. It comes from preparation. And you see cats like Luca who have done this his entire life and the Donovan Mitchells and their brain, it's just not going to allow them to not be that at this point because it's set a precedent and a bar in it's in their self where like, yo, this is, this is what I am. Like 70, shit. Yeah, I get 70.

So like for me, an off night is 35. You know, it sets a really, really high bar in your belief, in your ability to do things in a way that kind of solidifies. yo, this is what I do. Like, your ceiling now is, I mean, your floor is super high as a score, right? Because you just believe in that way. Who's your faith? Who's your faith score right now?

Who's the one that is like, I love, I know he gets buckets and I love watching him get buckets. I mean, it's probably Luca right now. It's probably Luca. I had, you know, over, over my kids' break, we went up to New York and hung out a little bit. And I got to sit with Steve Nash and Boris Diao for, for, few hours, man, it was good to see those dudes. And, you know, I've never seen Luca play in person. So he was one of the people that I specifically asked them about. And, you know, they both had their takes on it. But Steve's was really, Steve's was interesting in a way that it was so simple.

Luca's game, it's so simple. It's, it's, he's got this big body and he's got a deceptive first step. And so he gets that, that, that, those big shoulders by you. And this is the way, you know, Steve kind of broke it down and he was like, and from there, it's just a series of reads on, on, you know, what you do. And then here's what I'll do. And if you don't do it, then I'm going to do this. But if you do do do it, I'm going to do what I'm going to do. And if you can counter that, then here's what I'm, I mean, it was a, it was a really

fascinating breakdown to hear, A, the way Steve's mind worked in terms of playing. But B, when I thought about it as he was going through it and watching Luca, like, visualizing it as he was saying. I was like, yeah, it is that simple, man. he's playing at a relatively slow pace. He keeps that pace, and he just knows, if I can get to this advantage on you, the next series of events just go kind of like, I check them off. If you don't do your job, I score.

If you do do your job, here's what I'm going to do next. And that just continues to happen until he's on top of the basket, or he's made an assist, and it's kind of fascinating to watch. Me and Third I Kai were talking before you got on, because Third I Kai went to Lakers Mavs Christmas Day. And one of his observations was, man, Luca's pretty slow. And he's very effective while he's slow. Somehow the Mavericks just get these guys that are just very effective being slow.

I'm thinking about Dirk and I'm thinking about Luca, right? But they get to their spots and they get into their bags, right? And I'm going to be honest, man. And you didn't ask this, but I'm just going to say it. I do think the Mavs have a shot at another Western Conference final Spirrower. I don't even think, there's just something about that team. I just really, really like. And a lot of that has to do with Luca being a one-man dude.

When Luke is doing what Luke is doing and playing like that and they can find a balance, they're very dangerous because that's an incredible thing to do. And when you talked about the pace that those guys play at like slow, not only, you know, I talk about this all the time, people who can play in a very fast-moving environment and operate in that fast-moving hyper-athletic things flying around at 1,000 miles an hour, and they can operate slow mentally, that's what you're watching.

Like you're watching those dudes. That's the key to basketball. That's the key. That's when you unlock your game is when it slows down. All right, we got to get around a plane. Good luck to our,

to our little nephew of real ones. Our little real ones nephew. Go kick ass over there, but appreciate that. See you Monday. We will be right back. And we are back. We got a friend of the show.

Samuel Amick, my guy, my man, 50 grand. Came on last minute. He's here. We're here to talk about sons and honestly wherever the conversation take us. But first, Amick might have smoke for

OG Kerm, who just left the Zoom recording because Kerm said that he does not have an athlete, currently have an athletic subscription because budget cuts. So what, what, do you have any rebuttal to Kerm? First of all, Logan, appreciate you have me on again. Friend of the show, I got that title on appearance number two. I'm flattered. I'm honored. And you're going with the full name. I get Samuel. So now it's very intimate. That's what you're saved in as my phone. Is it really nice? I think that's an Apple thing.

I think it switched. But yeah, Kermm, it's okay. We'll get you back. We have active promotions at the athletic on a regular basis. I don't normally play the part of customer service rep. But I can. I can be humble enough to put that hat on. And we will work this out.

We will work this out. I'm sure and confident that we will get Kerm back reading the athletic. All right. His people will call it your people, aka me. wanted to talk sons with you. Now, they are three and seven over their last 10. This is a team that really weirdly had title aspirations considering all the stuff that is going on with them.

But now that is just all plummeted with the, you know, in the wake of Devin Booker being injured with a growing injury, is expected out to be out three more weeks. And honestly, Sam, it goes to a point that I've seen for years with the sons where there are really, good team on paper, but if one thing happens to them or if something, they always seem to,

even when they were good, there was always another shoe to drop, right? They could teeter on if something happens, and you could say this with any team, but specifically this team, if they were with their age and with just team dynamics, if one thing went a ride, they were susceptible to one of these type of stretches to happen. Is it time to panic on these suns, Sam? I mean, I'll come with silver lining saving grace first. The West is so, you know, call it parody, call it diluted, whatever you want to call it. The West is so wild this year in terms of that component.

There's a never say never reality that they, I think, hope helps their cause when Devin Booker comes back, which is obviously down the line of it. I also, and I don't have the facts in front of me, Logan, but like I might push back a little bit on that idea that when one puzzle piece kind of falls out, the whole picture kind of falls off the table. Because I remember last year, you know, CP was out for a stretch,

book played some good ball. They still wound up, you know, with the best record in the West and looked to be a team that, you know, was going to be dangerous. Now that didn't ultimately happen. Two years back, we, I think out of respect, got to make sure we don't, forget they were up two games in the finals. You know what I mean? This is a team that was getting close

with, you know, by and large, the same pieces that they have now. Then this is what's crazy for me, and we talked, you mentioned briefly off air about how I talked to Devin Booker in late November. It's weird for me because I admittedly, I kind of lost touch with the Sons after writing that interview. And the tone of that conversation was polar opposite of the tone of this one. Devin and I talking about the respect that he doesn't always get in the MVP conversation, them playing really good ball. They were on the top of the West at that point, I believe, and now they've fallen off. And it's been ugly.

I mean, the defense is in a bad way. The offense is not what it used to be. Can they get it back? Maybe. But the combination of the basketball struggles and then the culture stuff that I think we can probably get into, too, that might have a collective toll, I think, is a lot. It just seemed like there was always something lingering. for the other two other shooter drop.

And what I mean by that is like, you know, Chris Paul's age going into, you know, the season in the backstretch of his career or DeAndre Aden's contract situation. Or, you know, the Roberts Arbor thing, there was always seem to see something lingering that could seem to break this team apart. In a way, right? And I think one of those things that we're seeing right now is Aiden, right? Where he is, even after he gets the deal,

it seems like it's a, you know, I wouldn't say people are walking on eggshells necessarily, but like it's it's another thing that this team has to overcome. It's a thing that's something that this team has to overcome. Is there a point where you see what gives on this team and how have they been able to separate the stuff outside in outside noise and continue to play solid basketball and continue to be a factor? Like what what is the what is the common thread on that and what is something in that thread? that can give us some maybe, I don't know how to say it, can give us some confidence that this team can write the ship. Optimism. There you go. It's early in the morning, Sam.

Yeah, I understand. You see the coffee in my hand here. I'm trying to get rolling too. Yeah, I think it's just getting Booker back, man. You know, like CP, you mentioned that age. You know, and he had 25 and they're lost to Cleveland on Wednesday. And so that's a good sign offensively because my other takeaway here, Logan, is you told me coming in, we were going to talk son. so I looked up a few of their numbers with no disrespect to any of their guys.

You know, you got Landry Shamit leading the team and scoring going back to December 20th. Now granted, he only played five games in that stretch. But, you know, DeAndre Aden, otherwise leading the team in scoring 18 points a game. CP, we know what he does.

He's one of the best playmakers of all time. But, you know, scoring is part of his bag as well. And that, you know, he's down about 16 points during that stretch. When you have an elite all-world score like Devin Booker on the shelf, guys have got to step up on the offensive end. That's been a problem. So I really truly do believe, I guess to take it back to honestly that chat I had with Devin

about kind of his greatness, if you will. I know that sounds like hyperbole, but we did talk about that. Like the fact that he's been doing this for quite a few years now. And at that point in time with a, you know, let's see, that was on November 12th, They beat the Kings. They're 14 and 6. They go on to beat the Bulls two days later. That makes him 15 and 6.

In those two games, by the way, Devin Bookers, or three games, Devin Booker's three game stretch, 44, 51, 41. You know, the dude was a monster, and they were in a good spot, and then they lost him. So, I mean, to me, that's front and center. Anyone who lives in this podcast,

Devin Booker's one of my favorite players to watch, right? I love watching him play. I love the attitude he brings. I love a lot about his game. one question that I have and I've always kind of, you know, struggled with is, obviously Chris Paul's been great for his career

as he's been, as Chris Ball has been great for Shea's career, for a lot of, like, Chris has been a guy that has been able to get really, really good players to their next step of their career. But how is their partnership been? Because my thing is,

everywhere Chris Paul goes because of his leadership and because of his thing, he is the alpha in the room. or at least he tries to be. How does Devin adjust to that while trying to make sure that he is taking the reins of this franchise? At the end of the day, it's going to be Devin Booker's franchise for the foreseeable future long after Chris Paul is there. How is he balancing that? How does he balance his relationship with Chris and also his relationship with his career and taking that next step as a franchise star?

I think he's there. To his credit, he's found. So Chris comes in and it's, you know, it's kind of, you know, sunshine and roses and rainbows and the honeymoon period early on. You know, Chris was in a bad spot where, and he's always credited, you know, Oklahoma City in terms of them kind of working with him to get to a bitter place. So he essentially kind of gives his nod of approval and basically asked to go to Phoenix. So that trade happens. And Chris and Devin, you know, are a massive part of that. They had a relationship prior to that.

they do really good work right out at the gate it clicks but to your point chris paul is chris paul if you go back to the clippers days you know some tricky times during that stage when it comes to his leadership and his personality and call it prickly at times call it just overbearing you know chris paul is not a guy who has inspired affection in all of his teammates over the course of his career he just hasn't he has in some but you have i think an older and wiser chris paul who you know learned if you're lessons in Houston, you know, learn a few lessons in OKC of a more positive kind where he was lifting up the young guys. And you mentioned Shea, that's a great little shout out. I mean, the impact he had on Shea was big. So it's been really good with Devin, but I think over these past

couple of years, to Devin's credit, he has been comfortable and confident enough in himself to continue the progression to say respectfully to Chris. Like, you know, this is one in one A. and if anything, I'm the 1A. And Devin has that dog in him, and pun intended, I guess, literally this morning just kind of looked at the old IG and I'm going through stories. Devin Booker

puts up a little video of his training and his rehab. And we should say in terms of the data, which is pretty brutal, you know, at least four weeks is what the reporting is in terms of, you know, from right now going forward that he's going to be out. That's a long time.

But Devin clearly decides, he wants to kind of show the fans that he is doing what he needs to do to get back. And there's this video of him with his dog, this big old, I don't know if it's a pit or what it is, but it's just a big old mean-looking mug. And he's out there working and sending that message. And I do enjoy Devon's vibe, whether it's the dogs or the old school cars, he's an old soul. He has a grit to him that I think gets overlooked. We see that at times when he has dust-ups with Clayton's,

Thompson and the Warriors, you know, in that game in Phoenix a couple of months ago. Moments like that where, you know, he's always still taking flack on social media for the infamous offseason clip, you know, where he was telling guys not to double him because he didn't feel like getting double teams. Or the preseason where he does, after a loss, does, puts the LeBron meme up of basically after 2021 NBA finals of like, this is all, I'm fine or whatever, right? Like just basically just poking. He loves to poke the bear a little bit. Oh, he does. And the thing I love, too, is for a dude who is as modern as they come, you know, and he's, you know, he's out there even in the, in the, in the, in the celeb tabloids because of his love life and things of that nature.

He also has this kind of, he seems to disconnect from the online nonsense. And he doesn't really care about all the smoke that comes his way. So he finds this balance that I think a lot of young players. have a hard time finding. And to try to bring that back to your question, I think that sort of fabric has fit in well with Chris Paul. And I think Devin, you know, and everybody else in that son's organization knows

that the conversation about whether or not Devin Booker is worthy of holding kind of the son's mantle and leading a franchise, that conversation's over. I do, he is, you know what I mean? He's that good. Now it is, though, you know, We tried to go down the optimism road to go a little bit down the pessimism road. I think it's important and tenuous time because you have the ownership strife.

Not only, you know, Robert Sarver being suspended now in the process of selling the team, but you have the ESPN report the other day that I was not aware of that Sarver, you know, still has essentially a veto power over trades despite the fact that he's suspended. So you have kind of the ghost of Robert Sarver still. still impacting business for the sons. And you have, go back to Chris Paul, the age thing with Chris is a problem because he's, you know, father time is undefeated. We say it all the time.

So what is Devin Booker's career going to look like from here, assuming that Chris is going to fall off at some point, even more than he has already? Well, you brought him an interesting point about the ownership, right? Robert Sarver selling the team, the sons and the mercury. And one thing that, And I got, we always give credit to James Jones on this pod. Just about his ability to work under these conditions and kind of honestly separate the front office and team aspect of what's going on from all of the stuff that's going on off the court. He's done a great job of doing that.

How does, is it going, how does he continue to do that during these times, right? where there's just so much uncertainty and not just, you know, of what's what the owner is saying or his, his transgressions, but also now you're going to have a new regime who probably wants new things happening. And is there a concern that, I don't know, that the path won't be as rosy as it could be, not even for the simple fact that, you know, there's just a new ownership, but like new ownerships and new regimes want different things.

They want to put their imprint on things. What is the concern level on that? Or is it basically like, oh, James Jones is running the show, the basketball show for the foreseeable future, and we'll figure this out along the way. Do you have a gauge on that yet? I mean, the extension that they gave James somewhat recently is the first thing you start with, right? Because that offers a level of stability that should help him navigate this time of transition that you alluded to. I don't have a great sense. You know, Matt Isb, the incoming owner, you know, all I know about him is massively,

wealthy, massively interested in buying an NBA team. He was shopping, you know, all over the place, even beyond the NBA for a sports team. He wanted one, something fierce, is paying a massive price for it. So we'll see how that shift goes. The James Jones component, though, the first thought that comes to mind for me is the fact that, you know, last summer, we know that Kevin Durant put the sons on his behind-the-scenes list of teams that he would like to go to. what I found so interesting about that, and this is not a Kevin Durant to Phoenix conversation just to make that part clear at the top.

What I thought was so interesting about that is that James and his front office strategy, roster building strategy, these past couple of years, has been fairly transparent and open about the idea that he's trying to hold on to some of his chips to take another big swing at some point. And the Jay Crowder thing comes to mind.

Where this is, I don't think, at this point related to that. But his lack of willingness to move on a Crowder move trade makes you feel like he's, he does not want to have a misstep with any of these important moves. The Aiden thing,

like when they chose not to give Aiden the full max as an extension, part of the strategy, part of the reasoning was that they wanted to keep the option open of getting a designated max player from elsewhere in a trade.

So if they were going to do a Ben Simmons deal, back then it was potentially on the table. They couldn't do that if they gave Aden the franchise tag as well. You can only have two guys on your team with that tag. So that type of thinking, to go a little bit deeper, this is James Jones. Let's remember who was a member of the Healds, who famously put together LeBron James, D. Wade, Chris Bosch,

and had essentially kind of a three. I mean, Bosch was a big, but he had wing talent. and that sort of vision for an elite championship level team is something that I think left an imprint on James and continues to be something he would love to get back to. We keep taking it back to Chris Paul. With Chris Paul's kind of age and stage of career in mind, with James being well aware that one way or another,

he's going to have to find a way to get Devin and if Aiden is still there to get these guys some help because, you know, this version of the Sons is only going to last so long. Yeah. It's, and you brought up the Aden component of this because the thing with, and everything you're saying about what James Jones doing is, is the right approach. Let's no doubt about it, right?

But there's also a human element, right? Where DeAndre Aiden consistently at least feels like he's being disrespected, right? And does, I don't know, I don't have a, I don't have a pulse on what he feels at this very exact moment, but I can, you know, there's tangible as evidence to tell us that he hasn't even, he hasn't been happy during spurts of this season, right? Sure. What is the relationship there and how do they, how do they keep DeAndre Aden content is the best way I can say? How do they keep it content while they try to, you know, upgrade their roster? How do they, what is the human element there? And how do they, how are they, how are they,

figuring that out. It's funny because I'll go back again to the good times this season for this group. Aiden was playing pretty well come late November, early December. And I remember talking to some people around him about the fact that the Sarver saga, there wasn't much good to come out of it. But one of the silver linings basketball-wise for this son's team was that around D'Andre, there was some messaging, if you will, about the idea that, okay, whatever hard feelings you might still harbor

over the way your contract was handled previously with Robert Sarver leading the way, James Jones being part of that, there was kind of this messaging of, you know, listen, we all know Sarver led the way on that situation. So in terms of the dynamic, the relationship between DeAndre and James, which GM and player, that's always going to matter, right? like you would conceivably like to have harmony between the GM and all of his guys, if possible, especially a contending team.

So there was kind of this idea that like, let's let the, you know, Sarver's exiling, if you will. Let's let that heal the James DeAndre relationship. Now that idea, all I know is that that idea was, you know, something that was kind of presented to DeAndre and talked about. And I don't know to what degree it landed in exactly where that dynamic is, but it seemed like a pretty, you know, kind of forward thinking. idea that did make some sense. Beyond that, though, to be blunt, I think their attitude, just organizationally, basketball-wise, on the Sons is like, all right, you still got paid, you got your max, you know, you had to get it the hard way, and they just want consistency out of him. They, you know, his numbers are almost identical this year to last year in terms of the counting

stats. And it's just a consistency thing where he has times where he looks like an also. star, you know, but then he still disappears for a game or two. And that consistency is something they focus on. And they, I think, they kind of have this interesting hybrid approach of yeah, we do care about where the human dynamics are at, but we also

only to an extent, like, you get paid a lot of money, go to your job, and let's go win some games. And, you know, DeAndre's response to that, going forward, when they get booked back, all that stuff is going to matter. You talk about the Western Conference in general. And I'm just, it's, it's one of the seasons. It's interesting because remember like three, four years ago, we can kind of just pencil in who was going to be in the finals, right?

Or the teams that were generally going to be in the mix in the finals. And you can kind of, you could kind of see that in the Eastern Conference. Like, I know the three teams, you know the three teams that are probably going to be in the mix. I think like the Nets, the Celtics, the Bucks, the Sixers. I think those are like generally the people that that we see that they're probably going to go. And in the Western Conference, even with, you know, the people at the top, the Denver's, you know, even like it's just so wonky this Western Conference in general. I can't get a gauge or a hold on this, right? Because I talk myself in and out of every single team in the one, almost every single team in the Western Conference.

Right. Do you have a gauge on what's going on here? Do you have any sort of handicap of what you think is going to go on right now? No, I mean, I like your word, Wawkee. You know, Wild Wild West is way too cliche. We use it every year. Wawkey West is a little more spice to it. I like that.

I'll hone in on Denver, Logan, from the standpoint of, like, I was believing in Denver last week, which is, you know, it's about as much as we're willing to part ourselves out there right now. Analysis-wise is like a week-by-week basis. And so I felt good about Denver. And if you go, this is Monday morning, we recorded my pod tampering on athletic, you know, shameless plug there, check it out.

But we record our pod and we decided to talk nuggets and how great they were playing, but also to talk about the Minnesota mess and how bad and how poorly the T-wolves were playing. Well, it was terrible, podcast planning on my part because that night Denver played Minnesota and you know Minnesota wiped the floor with them so the nuggets you know they they fall short in another kind of test game they had dropped a game to the Kings three games before that that you know it's kind of a

bad loss granted a back to back and whatnot but Denver shows vulnerability you know Memphis has its own version you know of that same element um in new Orleans now with Zion Williamson being hurt becomes another question mark. Dallas, I, you know. I really like Dallas. Okay. We should talk about that because I might need like I've been a Dallas skeptic big time all season long and I got to give them props. The idea that they're sitting there forth in the West is surprising to me. Well, the thing with the thing with Dallas and that separates them from the West of the rest of the West is they have a guy and Luca right now that I legitimately fear. Like he's one, Like in your personal life?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for real. But like if I'm on the opposing team, it's like, it's like 0,8, 09 LeBron, where it's just like the one player system that, you know, he can carry and galvanize a team. And I think I'm still, I was so impressed by the Mavericks run last year when they got to the Western Conference finals. And granted, Jalen Brunson isn't on the team anymore. But I like Luca and I like the guys that they have. around him. I love the door the during finney smith. I love Christian wood has been really, really good. But like I really I like what they have going just from what I saw last year.

They just have a lot of dudes that can just get buckets at the times when they need to and the biggest moments when they need to. And they're the only team at this point. And Golden State is another team that I that I can that we could talk about or not talk about. But they are the the Mavericks are a team that have proven that they can get to that that point with the roster that they have. And I just like them. They're the one of those sneaky good teams that people, they're the only team that I fear. I don't fear the nuggets. I saw the Grizzlies on Christmas day and do not fear them whatsoever if I'm a team if I'm a team in the Western Conference. And every other team just has question marks. The Mavericks are a team where I don't necessarily,

I know what they are. And I think that's why I'm confident in them because at least I know what they are. I hear you. I mean, I'm a little surprised to hear the level, I mean, fearing Luke is one thing. Fearing the Mavs is another. You know, they, you know, let's see, two weeks ago, they're a game under 500. They're 15 and 16. They've won seven in a row since. And let's be real, like Houston, San Antonio, Houston, Lakers, Knicks, Houston, in Minnesota. They haven't beaten anybody. Is this a safe statement?

I don't know where the Knicks record was at that point. I think that's an entirely, a seven-game winning streak built against teams with losing records. So I don't think I'm with you on fearing the maps. I think if you talk playoff basketball, even going back to last season and their ability to advance,

a team like the Warriors elite playoff team that knows how to play in the postseason is not fearing the maps. Luke is incredible, but you know, you can game plan against him. And, you know, you can load them up. You can make the other guys beat you. They don't have as many other guys as they used to because Jalen Brunson's in New York now. You know, the one part collectively, or I guess the subplot that I was monitoring that I thought might make a difference here is Tim Hardaway, Jr., a little while back, had a pretty incredible stretch from long range where he was just knocking him down shooting-wise.

He's about 38 and a half percent right now from three. That's a guy that if Tim, you know, he's been around for a minute, but he could still take another step as a player individually. If he took a step, you know, if Dinwiddie was playing consistently and finding a way to compliment Luca, that stuff makes them dangerous collectively. But I still, I think it makes this as a way to segue, I guess. I know we're talking about teams today, but like the MVP race is going to be really interesting. And a couple weeks ago, I was probably in that camp where Lucas Canada Sea was almost like I was dreading how to handle it going forward because they were not good enough for me to really care that much.

You know, because to me it was a little different than, you know, Yokach being down Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr. last season, I could buy that narrative. You know, Mbid being down Ben Simmons, that type of thing. I can buy that narrative. but that was just not resigning guys and then and then saying we're going to give it, you know, to a guy like Luca because he's great, but they suck. I didn't like that narrative. Now they're at least, they're better. He's leading and carrying them in these wins. He's obviously, I mean, if he's not atop the MVP ladder, he's on the short list. But yeah, collectively, though, I still, I don't think I fear them.

You brought up an interesting point. And this is something that, you know, we actually talked to Mark Cuban about on the pod a little bit, just up about that. It's a systematic thing with the with the the Mavericks where they do really well in the playoffs and then don't resign the guys that help them do well in the playoffs, right? Where the biggest example

and this is what we talked to Cuban about was not resigning Tyson Chandler during, after the 2011 seat at the 2011 title run and his response was, well, we had a looming lockout. And we didn't know and there was uncertainty around that, which is fair, but also like really disheartening if you're a Mavericks fan. And right now, and, you know, we could also talk about, you know, the signing Dirk Novinsky to all these, these team friendly deals and not getting another person to alongside him for the backstretch of his career.

What is, are the Mavericks ever going to learn that lesson of like, no, man, like if you have success, you need to double and triple down on that success. And like it's it you can't rely on one guy to be able to do this for your franchise. Yeah, I mean the Mavs one and I don't want memory to fail me here because it was a while ago, but that one was obviously controversial back in the day, the one with with Dirk's team. You know, the idea of winning a title and then, you know, and also like this this kind of paradox of organizational affection and loyalty and love for Dirk Nabitsky, but then not really, you know, reciprocating that with roster loyalty, if you will.

Like preemptively trying to beat the system because you think you know what's happening across the league and then expecting your fans to understand that was Mark knew at the time that it was a risk. And I don't think it paid off.

Now, this one to me is different. The Brunson one, it's a mistake in terms of, you know, you know the story. I mean, they should have extended him early, you know, that they would bumped his number up a little bit in extension talks. It probably could have got the deal done. By the time they made it a priority, it appears that he was already,

the wheels were in motion with New York. His dad was in talks to be on the coaching staff and things of that nature. So, I mean, that's, I don't know how else to slice it. Like, losing Jalen Brunson was a mistake. And I do think in general media-wise, Dallas does continue to get off somewhat easy.

You know, I think about the Mavs and Mark Cuban and this is in our neck of the woods, Logan, like in relation to like Joe Leukeb and the Warriors, right? There's constant conversation about, you know, basically like, you know, should the Warriors pay, you know, $400 million plus to keep this team together? And, you know, and Mark, meanwhile, I mean, I don't know his exact tax number at the moment,

but, you know, the numbers are nowhere near and it feels at times like they're crying poor because, you know, and they let players head for the exit. I think next couple of years if the Mavs don't find a way I mean okay the conference finals appearance matters but we also know

it was a little bit to me like the Nuggets getting to the conference finals in the bubble where fair or not people I don't think look at that as like part of their arc part of the ascension for now it feels like an outlier and one that's interesting

it felt like the Nuggets it felt like number of the Trailblazers in 2019 where it's just one of those things where like, oh, it kind of, all the right things happened at the time, but there was no real, there was no real chance for them to

win a time. But it's interesting because if you look at the Mavericks from even the 2011 title, right, that was just something where it was the best, best case scenario where every single thing worked out for them, but they weren't favored at all that year.

Not even in the Western Conference, the Lakers were favored that year to go to the finals. And that is something where it seems like they back into finals appearance or back into good playoff runs where, you know, while that shows a great amount of luck, I think you want to do a better job building out your team. Like, you know, just to give yourself a chance. And also like, you know, you want to give Luca a chance when you have someone as great as he is every single year. Now, he's going to give you a run every single year because he's that damn good. but I feel like you want to at least figure out, you know, some help.

And I do want to say also another thing. I do want to make sure I, you know, defend the maps a little bit, right? Like they have tried to make trades, right? They tried to, you know, with the Porzingas. They traded for Perzingas. Now, did that work out? No, but that does show a, though we want to put somebody and figure out somebody alongside Luca.

I just don't know. I don't know how they, it's hard. I think they're showing that it's just really hard in this league, right? It's just hard to kind of keep great roster construction year in and year out. It is. And even within all that, I mean, they, to their credit, they've weathered what I thought was going to be a kind of a more tumultuous storm when they had all their changeover front office wise, coaching wise. You know, we obviously reported on, you know, the dynamics with, you know, Bob O'Garris back then and just kind of this environment where in that story, part of the thing we tried to focus on was like, all right, forget all right, forget all the drive. and not forget it, but like, how does it impact Luca?

And so for a minute, there were people around the league who questioned whether he would, you know, sign that extension. Now, that obviously was not only pushed back on at the time, but ultimately he signed that thing willingly and appears to continue to feel pretty good about, you know, the state of affairs in Dallas. And that's, they're lucky. I mean, any franchise that has a guy who's crazy, talented like Luca, and then a guy who chooses, you know, whatever the opposite of violence is, if that makes sense, from a PR standpoint,

like, is lucky, you know, and this is, this is maybe a rough segue. I think about, like, I wrote a couple months ago when the whole Draymond Poole thing happened, that the warriors were lucky that Jordan Poole had chosen to take the high road, that he had not stomped his feet internally to the point where they felt compelled of pressure. There were a lot of people around Jordan that didn't want him to sign that extension. You know, there were a lot of people that didn't want him to just ride it out and we'll go somewhere else right and we've seen you know i guess the opposite example of that would be kevin durant during the summer where you know he saw stuff he didn't like about the organization you know he made a you know a lot of noise about

it and ultimately it's wild to see that they've gone from there to to right now that's a little bit different though i would push back on a little bit on the kevin stuff it was more that they just couldn't get a trade done i don't think right i'm just saying the way the player chose to handle his situation. That's the comparison I'm making. It's like, Luca, would it have shocked you when Jalen Brunson went to New York if somebody broke a story about, you know, Luca won out or Luca saying this is ridiculous? I mean, there was not one headline, one soundbite that I can remember whatsoever with Luca questioning decisions that are being made either by Mark or Nico Harrison, you know, who runs their front office now. Luca has been a team player,

and it does not appear fake by any means. It appears that he is enjoying life in Dallas, trying to make it work with what they have and having a hell of a time doing it in a positive way because he's playing, you know, like a beyond a Hall of Fame or just an incredible all-time player. So, you know, I just, the point being the Mavs,

you know, they clearly still have time to keep maximizing the Luka era, but these next couple of years are going to be really interesting because a guy that special is obviously going to be expected to make postseason noise. Now, speaking of postseason noise,

you wrote about the Denver Nuggets recently, and I want to talk about them quickly before we get you out of here. The Nuggets are an interesting team. They're atop the Western Conference, but I feel like it's the same type of Nuggets team every year where they're really, really good in the regular season.

I don't think anyone necessarily fears them, right? I know that, you know, Yokens is going to be Yokic, but the pieces around him are, whether it's Murray, whether it's Porter, whether it's all these guys, they're perpetually injured. And that's just the luck of the game in general. Do they have the pieces to make a legitimate run this season, right? Where I know you wrote about their defense when they came through sack and trying to get that figured out.

But how do they fight against that perception that, like, no one really, no one really fears them. It's like, oh, okay, that's tight. The nuggets are good, yogh, which is great. But like, when it comes to the spring, we know what time we know what time it is. How are they going? How do they fight against that and how are they going? Do you see them reaching that next step this season? We'll see. I mean, it's to be determined. I don't know, you know, if we're handicapping it, you know, I guess the safe prediction would be no because you see, you know, two things that, that I just don't know if they're going to transpire that need. to transpire. One is Jamal Murray getting all the way back. You know, special Jamal, I know I always feel guilty when I drop the bubble Jamal phrase because he hates it and I get that.

Hopefully he's not a listener of the pod. But like he, you know, was remarkable in the bubble. And I always remember we did this interview in the bubble where he talked about how locked in he was, but the environment out there was so basketball focused for obvious reasons that like he was. taking, and he swore this was not hyperbole, he was taking five-hour naps before games, just like he was some sort of superpower, superhero who was like recharging during the day. And then when he hit the floor at night, he was playing his tail off. That version of Jamal, something close to it, they are certainly hoping, you know, that happens down the line.

Aaron Gordon, like you, you have me thinking, you know, and I skipped over Michael Porter Jr. in his health, which is a massive if. So, you know, let's kind of table that. Aaron Gordon is having a really, really good year. You know, I've seen some kind of online, even internally at our place, people laughed about the idea of, oh, you know, Aaron Gordon, All-Star, because the Nuggets are kind of pushing that right now. And I get it.

Like, he's probably not going to be an All-Star, but take another look at it. Like, everything has gone up in terms of his production. And on top of that, he's a two-way player, you know, and he's a guy who can defend multiple positions and is impactful on that end. Aaron being really good does make me wonder a little bit, can they take it farther this season? But that word fear, Aaron's got to do it in the playoffs. Draymond punked him in a major way in the playoffs last year,

and I have memories, and I'm sure he's got PTSD of that. And then the Yokets thing, the last thought there, Logan, I guess, is teams and players fear Yokic, but they still have this massive problem of what happens when he's off the floor, because he's not going to be a 39-minute game guy. And Bones Highland specifically is a guy that I'm just curious to see what happens with him

next couple of months because Michael Malone has tried to find a comfort zone for him but he's obviously a defensive liability and the second unit being led by him has not gone well. The on-off splits are atrocious. That team is like 25 points better net rating wise

when Yokic is on the floor. It's not all bones's fault but they just need more juice coming off the bench and trade wise as the deadline gets a little closer I wrote this in that piece. They're on the lookout for, you know, defensive wings, length, size, and they want to fix that because they feel like the offense is always going to be there. So that's a lot of ifs. You know,

I think they're really good. Can I see a path where in this walkie west, as you called it, you know, they find a way to survive and get through and then who knows, maybe win the whole thing? I mean, yeah, I mean, I give it a 7% chance. You know, I don't think teams fear them, but the continuity they have, the talent they have, they're on my short list for sure. We'll see what happens. Last time we had you here, we talked a lot about Tray Young and the dynamic there.

I know that you guys had reporting just on Nate McMillan and how he just, it's interesting that Nate McMillan defended his guy and was like that basically said it was kind of, your reporting was kind of untrue. And then as now there's reporting that he might like be thinking about resigning. So what is the latest in Atlanta right?

now and like what goes from here man like this is not every time i think here about atlanta ever since then that great playoff run in 2021 it's just been kind of downhill from there this like the the the chemistry seems eroded what's going on in Atlanta man what's the latest what can you give us about that uh yeah so they they came through town last night um they they pull out that close game against the kings uh you know i talked to a lot of their people got a sense of their group you know they It's weird because you look just basketball-wise it like them and the Kings.

And it was actually a really fun game because you had these two pretty talented teams that show these consistent signs of like, I mean, the Hawks should be better because they've been doing this for a minute. But like, you know, there's a fair amount of boneheaded plays happening and like a recklessness to the game

that was weirdly fun. But it's two, you know, call it mediocre, call it above average teams trying to survive. and every night is a struggle, a lot of close games, and the Hawks pull that one out.

And the mood, it's weird. I might have, I'll probably have something coming on John Collins next couple of days, talk to him for quite a while about his situation, but like you've got the John Collins uncertainty for years at this point,

like trade-wise, where's John Collins going to go? You've got Trey, both personality-wise and basketball-wise, you know, not only how is he playing, but how are his teammates feeling about playing with him, how is that part going? You've got the Nate stuff where, you know, and Sean Sharaani at our place, like you alluded

to had reported the other day that, you know, it's in terms of the offseason, whatever happens between now and then, you know, Nate, you know, is not expected to be back next season. And so you have, you know, kind of your lame duck type situation. It's a lot. I was a little struck talking to some of their guys about their ability to navigate through it. Like there's this acceptance of chaos and I didn't even mention the front office stuff. You know, Landry

Field is now heading the front office, not the most experienced executive. You know, questions about that, I think. You know, Travis Slank, you know, I thought did a good job building that team up. You know, and it is no more. So, a lot going on. And, you know,

it's also, there's a weird aside, I guess, in terms of covering this league, I think sometimes we still, now, We just talked about Mark Cuban, right? Like, we don't drill down on the owner component probably nearly enough. And Mark probably is part of the narrative more because he puts himself out there all the time. But with these teams, more often than not, you know, the buck stops with the owner.

You know, and Tony Ressler is the Hawks owner and he's the guy who's got to figure out what they're trying to do here. And, you know, Chris Hans had reported recently that, you know, rival execs are monitoring the Tray Young situation and wondering if the Hawks do something there, you know, the hawks push back on that, but it's like, go ahead and find me an area of that organization that you feel confident, kind of sicken your teeth into right now. You know what I mean? Like, everywhere you turn, we talked earlier about puzzle pieces and the suns. Like, forget one piece. Like, the hawks don't have really any pieces. You know, Dejante Murray is sitting there trying to figure out what his future looks like. You know, we talked about that last time I was on the pod. So not ideal, but, you know, they're still getting wins.

and in the east is, I think they're ninth right now. They're trying to fight their way back. So we'll see what they do at the deadline. It's going to be interesting, man. Thanks so much, man. That is Sam Amick, NBA writer, insider. Samuel. What happened to Samuel?

I'm trying to do a close here, Samuel. I'm sorry. You can catch all his work at the athletic. You can make sure you listen to him on the tampering pod. And wherever you guys get your podcast, man. Thanks so much, Sam. We'll talk to you soon. Try to get you around the trade deadline.

but we'll talk to you soon. All right, brother. Thanks, Logan.