The Ringer NBA Show - What’s Holding Zion and the Pelicans Back? Plus, LeBron Is All About the Vibes. | Real Ones

Episode Date: December 7, 2023

Logan and Raja are finally recording together in person on the ground in Las Vegas! The guys kick things off by discussing what the NBA’s benchmarks are for a completely successful inaugural in-season tournament (8:00). Then, they talk through the biggest obstacles the Pelicans and Zion Williamson are facing on their path to achieving their true potential (15:40). They wrap things up by breaking down why this latest version of LeBron James is all about the vibes (37:17). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Producers: Kai Grady and Jessie Lopez Additional Production Support: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, this is Danny Hyfitz from the Ringer Fantasy Football Show. For all your fantasy football needs, check out the Ringer Fantasy Football Show with me, Craig Horlebeck and Danny Kelly. That's the Ringer Fantasy Football Show on Spotify, wherever we get your podcasts. It's popping ruins. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell, there. Before we get started, man, I just want to give our thoughts and prayers to the victims of the shooting that happened in UNOV. And just really sad situation all around.

I just want to say that at the top of the show. So, Raja, it's been a long time coming, but we're in the flesh. Let's see how we do this. How are you feeling right now? I'm looking you dead in your face and not a computer screen. It's a little awkward. Okay.

So it's a little awkward because we were used to being at the screen, but it was a pleasure to meet you. It is a pleasure to meet you. It would have been cool to be on a stage. I was kind of excited about that. I was really used. I was kind of excited about the Jimmy Kimmel. I told me I ran into a dude on an airplane.

He was like, you're going to meet Logan? Yeah. I was like, as a matter of fact, I am. He was like, man, I love you guys' content. You guys are Jimmy Kimmel. And so I was pretty fired up about that. But, yeah, good to meet you, bro. Good to meet you, too.

It's been a thing that's funny because, like, even today I was at the Team Mobile Arena just doing all the media stuff because I'm writing something this week on the tournament. And like, three or four people were like, yo, you meet Roger tonight? Like, is this going to be the time? Like, it was like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's not. happening. It's becoming a life of its own. Like, it's kind of weird how that's up. Can you tell us everybody, because we were in the elevator coming up here to Ben

Cruz's wild-ass suite in Vegas. Ben, good for you. That has a swing in it. Good for you, Ben. It has a fucking swing in it. I don't even know. It's just him allegedly in this room. It's a single bed slash swing, right? Yeah, but he has a bedroom, too. No, but I mean, that's, I mean, but it's the size of a, maybe a double, the swing itself. Yeah.

Yeah. Raja almost broke his whole shit by doing a one swing. laid out when he saw the thing. He got really excited and just started swinging from the thing. I'm exhausted. But can you tell people about your day, your travel day to Las Vegas from where you live in Florida? Yeah. I mean, what are you going to do?

You get up, you make breakfast, you get the kids out, you Uber, and then, you know, we're flying to, where'd we go? We went to O'Hara, two hour layover, it's three and a half, then another three and a half or two and a half out here. And then I didn't know anything about the tragedy at UNLV. So it's been a long time since I was at Vegas, Logan. The last time I was here, I think I was at a stage in my life where I could appreciate Vegas in a way that didn't like have the dumb lines and shit really make me angry.

You were less washed. But I'm going to keep it a buck. Yeah, I was less washed. I'm going to keep it a buck. Today I was just fucking annoyed, man. Like it was a long line for 40 minutes for Uber. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

It was 20 minutes waiting at the area to get my room key. And so the old curmudgeon that is I would. All he wanted to do was go to carbone and grab a quick little bite. Yeah. Just a little bite before I came over. I'm not going to hold you. It was hell of funny because I got on the phone with Roger. And the first thing he said was carbone.

I was like, oh, I know who I'm talking to. Just casually just said, we're going to carbone. Hey, this is what I, this was a variation of the call. It was, hey, motherfucker. I don't want to carbone. And I was like, oh, okay, I know what time it is. Little did I know. When I got to carbone, they were like, yeah, we're booked.

Sorry. Yeah, Anthony Davis said bye. Yeah, Kevin Davis took the seat. LeBron also took the seat. You're not going to go here. So Vegas, man. It's interesting. We are on the eve of the semifinals.

And I got a bit more of like just the day-to-day of like what the quarterfinals is. It's pretty exciting out here. I think there's like a real excitement going into this, this last stretch of the tournament. And it got me thinking, Raja, the NBA is dipping its two. into expansion, right? And I'm kind of seeing like, what would a NBA expansion look like? I think it's going to look good. I think this is like a, this is going to be a real this early.

There's no games been played in Vegas yet, but I do think that we're on the right path here in terms of expansion. What do you think from the limited maybe preseason games? What would an NBA lifestyle and journey look like for an NBA expansion team as a player? What do you think? In Vegas, they have other pro franchises and people don't seem to be out of their mind about living in Vegas and being an athlete or playing professionally in Vegas. So I don't think dudes are going to lose their minds out here as a guest coming to play in Vegas for pre-season and you're here for a couple days. I mean, typically people didn't play great in Vegas, kind of like the Miami effect.

You know, you were here. You had a good time. But I think once you live here and it's a regular stop, it becomes business as usual. Do you know what I mean? You just become accustomed to it. It's another stop kind of in your season. And if you live here, it's just old hat. You know what I mean?

But like in terms of a fan base, you know, that would be interesting. See how you cultivate like a true fan base for a new team here in Vegas. It's always a lot of, you know, a lot of other teams fans probably coursing through Vegas itself. But, you know, that would be interested in me. But as far as a city, a destination where people want to come play and where you'd be able to attract free agents, easy money. Did you get, did you have any preseason games out here? Oh, yeah. Can you?

It does the, uh, the rural ones fan base on Rajabell and Vegas and the precinct. Because of the precincts is interesting because you don't actually, the games really don't matter. Especially when you're playing like you're playing your solidified spot. You're literally, it's just a trip to Vegas and you happen to be playing basketball. Yeah. So what is that for you? Well, shh. I mean, that was a long time ago, but that was back when the Maloofs were still in business. The Palms was still like the place to be.

So we were, we stayed at the palms. We played Kobe and the Lakers. I think it was, might have been the preseason after we came back from 3-1 down, I want to say. So it was a little tense. Yeah, there was a little, there was something in the air. I think, I think it was a more spirited preseason game than you usually play, but none of us were in great shape to play that game. let's just say that was that was uh the night the night before that was not going to be conducive to having like your best shit yes suffice to say but again we were just come we didn't come to

Vegas a lot so coming to Vegas was like like a thing of itself right like if you played here a few times a year or you played and you lived here it'd be different but for us we were like we're in Vegas for tonight let's go let's what time is i mean the statute of limitations are over what time did you get back oh no i could i don't even remember that I don't think it was like a, I think it was like a sunup type of deal. Probably like three in the morning, two, three in the morning. Yeah, I mean, it's pretty late. For Vegas, it's pretty early.

For Vegas is pretty early. Correct. Yeah, for sure, for sure. It's just like, that's one of the things. And Rick Carlisle was actually asked about that even for, you know, his group. Like how do you, like, trust your guys in this environment with all this on the line, right? And it's not only, and I think the league for, it's an audition in all. ways, including how players and staff conduct themselves during this trip.

Sure. Because there's only one, there's only one opportunity to make a first impression. Like the NBA is on the best behavior at this point. They're giving like executives to the media. They're making sure all players are available. They're doing all these things. What does the NBA, what do you think that they're trying to prove with this first iteration of the end season tournament?

What are the benchmarks of success do you think need to be seen for the NBA to say, oh, we did a good job our first time around? Obviously, like walking around here, you could see the billboards and the big electronic screens just, you know, all advertising. So, you know, if you hop into the arena tomorrow night and the city turns out and that bad boy is electric and people are coming out to consume, which I'm sure they'll do here in Vegas, I think the NBA has already won. Now, I say they already won because the last game, the Indiana game,

the Indiana Boston game the other night. What did you think about that game? Talk to me about that game. Let's talk about that game. Obviously, different court, you know, and all this and that, but just the tenor of the game, the field of the game. That was a playoff game. Like, they were going at it.

Like, both teams were going at it. You know, we kind of talked briefly with Howard MF and Beck that a team like the Pacers might have a little bit more at stake. Right. You know what I mean? But, you know, they look like it. But Boston looked like they were there to win. shit too and they wanted to be here. So I think the NBA's already won, man. I've heard a lot of people

again in the airport on flights talking about the NCs tournament, the buy-in coming out here for it. And so I think that's the thing. Now, interestingly, you know, we talked about like players being on like kind of an audition out here. And when I was here with the Cavs, like they've been doing preseason. I mean, sorry, but summer week here for a long time, right? And that's always interesting because, you know, you're seeing young guys and typically the younger guys would be the ones that would fall into like the pitfalls of Vegas or Miami or somewhere where you could be distracted, lose focus. It's a different type of audition. It's a different, right. And so we're watching like Summer League.

I remember being in the hotel lobby late at night on purpose, just trying to see who was straggling in. If everybody was in their room, did I catch anybody leaving out late? You know what I mean? Just trying to feel. I'm getting a little drink. getting a little something adult beverage. Yeah, but I'm an exec at this point. I can do that.

But no, you're trying to see, like, does Vegas have that kind of draw where boys can't, even with all is at stake, they can't focus. Well, it's funny because Rick Carlisle was talking about that too, right? Like, where just talking about that notion of there's places, it's not necessarily Vegas with all the access, but in everywhere you can get into some shit. Oh, for sure. In every city, you can get into some shit. Vegas might be the biggest example,

but I feel like with players, if you're going to get into something, you're going to find trouble no matter where you go. And it's going to be just interesting to see that dynamic if there is a team that comes here specifically for basketball, right? Because, say like an Eastern Conference team, only comes out here once a year. Right.

So that's going to be an interesting thing. I do want to talk really quickly, though, because you brought up to Indiana Pacers game. we hadn't talked since Monday. We're kind of previewing the game. I think if there is a chance that Tyrese Halliburton could be the player of the tournament, bro. Listen, I was on a plane today. Yeah.

I was on my layover in Chicago. Yeah. And I recognized a brother. I was like, well, I know his face. Who is that? It was Tyrese Halliburton's dad. I had seen him. The night before.

The night I had seen him at the game. like popping his shit when his son was going off, it took everything in me not to go up and be like, hey, bro, big fan of your son. I didn't do it, right? But like, that's the way I, you know, like, yeah, he's tough. He's tough.

But it's not only that he's a good basketball player, what is the difference between a good basketball player and the magic that comes with, because it seems like he has a magic to him, right, where he, not Magic Johnson, although Magic Johnson did tweet about him, but like just a magic that comes with his style of play and that galvanizes other,

an organization. What do you see in Tyrese that if you look out into the future, Clam Vlorant Raj, what do you see and what are the intangibles that he has that could lead a franchise that, you know, maybe, because he likes it, even in the presser today, he was like, I was a zero star. It was a zero star guy. Seems like he has that shit, but it seems like there's like the star quality in him. What do you see from that in him and how can that carry an organization? Yeah, that, I mean, that's a good question. I think, you know, sometimes, Sometimes for a guy with zero stars, it could be, you know, laser focused, wear that chip on my shoulder, and that could be really abrasive and come off like an A-hole at times, you know what I mean?

But there are other guys who don't come in with a lot of stars, and they've kind of got the opposite. Like, they're laser-focused, but they don't wear it like that. They've got like this self-deprecating, like, you know, like I got nothing to lose. Like, I'm just out here having a good time type of vibe. And aside from him just being kind of electric and the game is so, it's such a, like, it's like, It's a tough game, but it's like an offbeat type of game. Like it's an interesting game to watch, but he looks like he's having fun. Do you know what I'm saying?

I would hate to be a defender against his because every time I see his shot, it's like, the shit ain't going on. It's not going on. It's not going on. It's fucking went in. He has the vibe of a guy that you think you can guard until you guard him. Right? This isn't a good comp because their games, he's way better.

But there was a dude, Kevin Martin, used to play for Sacramento. know he played for. Now, there are games. Ben Cruz is here nodding his head talking about. Because Kevin Martin used to kick his warrior's ass. Yeah, Kevin Martin was a G. Now, like, but they didn't have the same game. Like I'm not saying aesthetically, it looked the same.

But it was one of those games where you'd look at it and you'd be like, oh, hell, no, uh-uh, nope. And he'd be like, like, dang, he had 35. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, no, that shit ain't go. Oh, shit, he hit another one. And he's got a little bit of that to him. But I think, you know, when you ask what that could do for a franchise, like, people,

people want to play with someone who's really, really good, knows that they're really good, but doesn't just project that they're really good all the time. Because that can be annoying, right? Like, everyone knows you're good. Like, and we'll concede that and we'll rally around that. But you don't wear it, like, I'm better than y'all, like even though you're the best player.

And I think he's got a little bit of that to him. And that's the little bit of magic, right? Like, that's the thing that not every great player can do. Some of them are real buttheads, you know? and it doesn't. And even stars, right? It doesn't stop them from winning championships, but it might not be your favorite teammate.

Can you do what I'm saying? Like a dude like that, they're rare, and that's where I think you get tap into the magic, not the game, but like the personality. Cash in on bawling out this NBA season with Fandul, America's number one sportsbook. Right now, new customers can get $150 in bonus bets

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See terms in sportsbook. Fandual.com. Another team, it was funny that I was watching. I was at the Pelicans, the Pelicans, Kings game. And I think I'm back on that Pelicans narcotic. I think I am. The one thing that I have kind of an issue with, and it should get rectified. I think they can be a championship team if this thing just happens.

It is the age old thing, but I finally saw it in person. Zion got to get it. Zion has to get in shape. He has to get in conditioning. It is really, like, there were times, I don't know if you watch the game because, you know, you East Coasters are very late and you guys have your West Coast biases. Y'all don't like to stay up for us, especially you. To that point, I watched some of that game.

You watched the first half. I watched some of that game, yes. But there were times throughout that game where Zion gets in the post, maybe gets a little tired and says go no no no swing it the other way or there was a there was a I don't know if you fell asleep by this time but there was a play with dearon fox where he kind of just shook zion and zion just let him go now he Zion could make the argument a la rajah in 2007 christmas day when covey blew by him but he thought he had help there could have been that argument i was supposed to it was a coverage but zion did not have design design coverage zion did not have that five okay

And he just let him go. Right. But there were plenty of times where I just see like, dude's not in shape. He's not in shape. This is not what's going on here. Right. But the players around him, the Herb Jones, B.I. B.I. can take over again.

I'm curious to see what he does against the Lakers. But Trey Murphy, there's guys that can just, that are dudes. We need, Roger, we need to get Zion in shape. Yeah, I don't know what you do with that. I mean, I honestly, this is, I mean, year what for him? Do you know off the top? Is this five? Four? 1920 and 2020. I mean, it's about damn time, right? Yeah. And I mean, I guess, you know, you could say that he's been injured and that's fair.

But typically dudes figure that in four or five years, you figure out how to be in your best basketball shape. So it is concerning for me. And I have to wonder whether that's going to happen in the near future. Right? Like I just, sometimes it takes something crazy to happen for you to have that revelation. Like, oh, shit, man, I do need to be in better shape. Hopefully it doesn't come to that for Zion, hopefully. But I mean, I guess if someone hasn't gotten to him, and I know for a fact that people in that organization have suggested and done their best to impress upon him the importance of less body fat, carrying less weight, you know, just because of what it means to the injury history. So if that's been expressed and people have been working on you for a couple years with that and you still ain't in sheep. What I keep hearing, I'm sure you're hearing the same thing is he just doesn't listen. He's one of those guys that will go and say, yeah, I got you. Right. Does not follow through on that.

You know what I mean? Sure. And it's starting to get on the floor and I was talking to, sorry, one of my homies, Will Guillory, he covers the pelicans for the athletic. And one of the things that we were just talking about was the reason why Zion needs to lock in is because it's too late to have like the young player growing pains right now because still it gets into the playoffs and have those type of growing pains. Right. Where, you know, the two years, you know, like Katie is a perfect example where he got his ass kicked by Ron Artecest, his first postseason, right? Wasn't that he wasn't good. He just hadn't experienced postseason play.

Zion hasn't even experienced that yet, right? The two or three years of that. That's what the holdup is. It's like, we know you're good. We know you have the potential to be great. Even in that Sacramento game, he had one block that was fucking incredible. Sure.

But he needs to have growing pains on the playoffs and it's taking too long to get to that point. That's where I need to get to. Yeah, for sure. And I think all of that goes and speaks to just a lack of maturity, right? because, you know, most dudes on their arc as NBA players, even if they're injured for a few years, and they're not getting that on-job experience for the playoffs that we're talking about being, like, critical, they are still in a pro-organization.

They're being treated like adults. This isn't a college system. There's, you know, things that are expected of you that would help expedite your maturation process if you were willing to mature. And so you would think that even if you weren't on the floor, by the time you did get back, let's say three years into it, four years into it, yeah, you might need some seasoning, which is what I would call those playoff moments. Like, look, you can't learn until you've been in that. So we need the seasoning.

But anything outside of that that you can control, we need to be in a headspace where we control that because you're not 18 years old anymore or 19. You are now, you know. What's the difference, though, in that with the playoff basketball for a young guy, what are the lessons that you need to learn from a physicality standpoint? What are those things that you need to learn? And what are the difference between the two, from preseason to regular season to postseason? Well, I mean, look, postseason, today's game is so much different.

Like, I'm sure it still slows down, but it's still exponentially faster than it was when we played. But typically it's more possession-based. Like, guys are digging into what you like to typically do. do as a team so it becomes more physical because they can try to stop you from getting to the spots that you want to get to and the sets that you actually want to run come crunch time. So just by the nature of understanding what you're doing, play in and play out, it gets more physical. I think Zion is kind of uniquely kind of built for the physicality of that. The question for Zion is like finding, you know, the optimum combination of the size and not like stripping it down.

I was with LeBron that year he came back to Cleveland. LeBron Von Vegan that summer. And LeBron, if people remember when he came out early in that season, he didn't look great. Like, his body just had leaned out to a point where he didn't have the same shoulders that he had. And his burst wasn't there anymore. And so it took LeBron a while. It was the closest LeBron look to Kevin Durant. Yeah, no, but I was straight up.

He didn't have the strength. Yes, he had really leaned out. And, like, his- What was his reasoning for that? Did he ever? I don't know. What did he? Okay.

I don't know what it was. But the point was LeBron quickly realized like, oh, shit. Like this isn't exactly, you know, compatible with my game. So Zion's got to get to a point where he figures out, all right, this is too lean, but this is too heavy. And my sweet spot is X, Y, and Z body fat and X, Y, and Z poundage. And that's going to be, you know, what I need to carry into the playoffs. So if you come into a regular season and you're slightly out of shape, fine.

But if we're talking about being, you know, early December, early December, you pose to be in shape. Like, by now you should have played yours. Anyone who was out of shape coming in the training camp is now in shape. That's Shaq Special. If you're not in shape now, I'm worried. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. What is that?

It's crazy because when we started even started this segment, we're talking about just the other guys that the Pelicans have, right? when you see like, you know, your guy that you put on this pedestal, not necessarily going hard, but you're going hard. What does that do to the rest of that locker room? That every time it's either you get injured or it's like maybe you're not like locked in as much as we'd like you to because you're, and you are the most talented guy? What is that, does that build animosity to the rest of the locker room? Or does it, what does it do? I don't know that it has to build animosity. if someone is just, you know, if someone is just genuinely immature and not an asshole, right?

Like, because there's a difference, right? If someone's just genuinely kind of naive to what this is supposed to look like for whatever reason, whether I agree or disagree that three or four years is too long for that to be the case, if you read it as such, I don't think it's building animosity, right? Because we're like, look, sometimes it takes a village, right? So I got a Logan Murdoch, you know, I got, I got people around me that can teach me how to be a pro, even if I don't see it in a timely fashion. Logan just keeps doing his thing and, you know, everyone else keeps doing their thing.

And then Rajah finally says, oh, shit, well, this is what I need to do to be a part of that. And so I think you see that more than animosity in New Orleans. Now, if Zion was a dude that, that despite everything, everyone was saying to him, teammates, that is, and people like that, was like, man, fuck y'all, I ain't doing that. Like, you know, if he had that type attitude, I think you would be in the animosity space. And I don't think you could hide that. people love him in that locker room. Exactly.

I still believe that. So I do believe, I mean, first of all, he's Uber talented, but secondly, I think it's more of a just an immaturity thing, right? And that doesn't mean he's not a good dude because I do believe that he's a, by all accounts, he's a good dude. Yeah, no.

And when I say immaturity, I mean, like, immature in the sense of like, hey, man, like, you're a professional basketball player now. So, you know, while you are still young in the grand scheme of things, like there are things that we have to do, i.e., you know, exercise, taking care of ourselves, you know, things that we have to check these boxes to make sure that we're at optimum level, both individually and collectively. And I don't know that he's fully grasped that yet.

Now, I haven't asked anyone that. That's just me reading what I'm looking at and watching his body. But I think they're thinking as a team that if they continue to be successful and continue to work, you know, around him in a way that demonstrates how you have to get it done, that he'll come alone. It was interesting because I asked Willie Green, the coach of the Pelicans in Sack when I was up there. just how this is kind of gout, this, this in-season tournament has kind of galvanized them. And I'll put the question to you.

And this is just not even just a Pelican's question, but this is just for the overall, every team in this, in this tournament. What does like competition just do for NBA players, right? Because like, it's the money means what it means, but like the bright lights are on right now. And I saw, we saw that a lot. I think in the Lakers' sons game last night, where you just put the ball in and these guys are all competitors and they just want to fucking win.

What does that do for a team like the Pelicans when they just have something to play for, right? And how will that help them perhaps tomorrow evening against the Los Angeles Lakers? Yeah, it's a good question. And it's one that I hadn't really thought of from that angle, but there are some teams, you know, we've touched on like Boston and, you know, teams that are maybe a little longer than two with Milwaukee,

they could still wind up being in this tournament, Denver, where, you know, you're playing the long game. You've been in the long game before, you know, what it takes to get there. And that's the major focus, right? Those teams are still going to compete, like, given the opportunity to be here, they're going to be here. But there is another, you know, faction of teams that could be maybe a little lost early in the season, not really sure exactly who they are.

And something like this can really focus you in a way, right? Because it gives you something immediate. Like instead of that real long-term, NBA season is long, dog. It is, a long season. So to be thinking, you know, especially for younger teams, thinking fucking NBA finals is something so abstract because it's so far out in the distance, you get them something to shoot for like right now, and you get everybody to like lock in in a way that could really, you know,

jumpstart your shit. And so, you know, like, they're coaches that will talk about breaking a season down into like, I don't know, quarters. Yeah. You know, depending on, you know, what their philosophy is. And essentially, that's kind of what we're talking about. Like, right? But at the end of one of those quarters, there's an actual championship to play for. I think that could be more important than I gave a credit for for not just the Pelicans, but other teams in the league too.

I think what I've seen even just like throughout this tournament, especially for young teams, raw, is, it's teaching them how to win in tough situations earlier than they're even anticipating, right? Because, like, you haven't experienced you just got into town, but like it feels like All-Star weekend mixed with the postseason, if that makes sense, right? Where the lights are just different here. Like, when you, I was at Tew Mobile earlier today, and it's like they literally made the court mimic an MSG or Great Western form where they make the floor a stage.

And so when you get that, you see those bright lights. You all already know what the bright lights are. Sure. And for younger teams like Pelicans or the Pacers, it shows them like, oh, we need to fight in order to win these games. Like that Boston game felt like a first round playoff matchup is what it felt like. And so I'm curious to see how this goes on. And now that I'm in Vegas, I'm even more all in on the end season tournament.

I'm curious to see how this in subsequent seasons maybe accelerates a young team's trajectory because it teaches them how to win. Like Tyresearch, if he wins this thing, it's like, oh, okay, I know what a postseason environment is going to look like down the line. It's a different type of practice. Well, it definitely is. It's 100% playoff basketball experience, at least in those knockout rounds. for this tournament

that you can't get any other time than the actual playoffs. Right. Like that game between Boston and Indiana, you don't see that. That's the difference.

Like when we talked to Howard and I was arguing and then, hey man, November basketball's never been bad. Yeah. Like, dudes compete. Like they do. Like November basketball hasn't been like...

But have you ever competed like this before? No, but see, that's the thing. That's the difference, right? Like, it's not like a lay down bad or like, yo, I came out and I'm not trying to play bad. It's like, look, if we're down, eight with a minute and a half to go in November. Maybe, maybe I know I got another game.

I'm just like, man, look, this one's a rush. We'll get to Orlando tomorrow night and we'll make it up then. And so you don't get the tenor that you had in Indiana the other night. Like that shit was a knockdown, drag out, as close as you can come to playoff basketball experience as you can get. And again, in any other world, the only time you get that is in the playoff. So it is invaluable for some of those teams. What's it like when you know the world is watching you?

What's that feeling like when you know that? Because I always call it the center of the NBA universe games. You know those ones I'm talking about. Like what is that like to play in those types of games that we're going to see tomorrow and all Saturday? I don't know how to describe that, man. Those were my favorite. That was my favorite stuff. Like playoffs, I don't know, NBC games, like Christmas game days.

Um, Mario Luther King Day games. Like those are, you know, you know everyone's locked in. You know everyone's watching. The lights feel brighter. Um, I don't know how to describe it, dog. But like, you know, for, for those of you who love to do what you do, like, and you, you just take pride in it and you feel like you do it with the best in the world. Like, that's what it's all about. Like, so, you know, it becomes a little harder to sleep for your nap because you're a little bit more fired up.

Like your pregame nap and shit like that. You get a little. Nancy, but man, those are, that's what you live for. I mean, those are the scenarios that when you're kind of like rolling Dolo at 13 years old and the ball's coming out of the net and you've taken it back to the top of the key and you've got somebody in the ISO, that's what you're imagining. Bro, trust me what I say, it's like that for writers too. I remember, I remember game, it was game for the Western Conference Finals 2019.

And you really just want to, like just like how you want to kick everyone's ass. I want to kick every writer's ass. Yeah, yeah. And like, I want to get this quote. I want to get this stuff. You want to meet that moment, bro. Sure. And I know you guys have that when you guys, like, it's specifically like, I think about like the O-1, game one of the finals O-1 for you, where you're, you have no choice in your life, but to just black out of hoop, bro.

That's it. Like, what's that like when you just got a blackout and hoot? You're just out of your body, bro. That was fight or flight. That was just like you're going to either, I mean, figuratively die out here or you can live. I've only had two moments like that as a writer. It was that Western Conference in 2019 and was the game six, 2022, in Boston, where you just have that feeling. You're like, I'm just going to be out of body.

Fuck it. Man. You don't even know what you're doing. No, those. And like, if you watch clips of me playing in those games, I was having that conversation with my dad the other day just because we're both in all. I mean, he's obviously a generation before me. but we're in awe of just how much these little shorties know from like just sports in general,

whether it's soccer with my daughter, who's seven. Like I'm in awe of the shit there teaching seven-year-old. Also, shout up to them. I saw you took him to the U.S. soccer. That's dope. Yeah, that was pretty dope. But like that basketball, football, and I was just telling him, I was like, man, if you watch clips of me playing with the Sixers, I didn't even know how to play pick and roll, like off ball,

which is literally just stand your ass in a corner or on the wing. And I'm out there running around. If you watch a clip, I'm like running around. I'm in everybody's way. My fuck are looking at me like, yo, man, get out of you. Are you almost embarrassed to watch the finals? Is it one of those things? We're like, God damn it, Rosam.

No, I have moments where, I mean, it's kind of funny to me. I got moments where I'm really proud of what I did. And then there are other moments where I'm like, man, what are you doing? You dumbass. Like, you are just running in circles out there. But to your point, I mean, it all happened to me so fast. And it was just like, you know, sometimes you get one shot at it. You know, I hadn't gotten many shots at it.

And so that shit was like, I'm not giving this one up. When you got back at least two, in Phoenix, when you guys were relevant, did you like, were you, did it? We're just vibed right now. We're just how we are now. Y'all know how we did it about 35 minutes. Ben's put his hand in his hand. In the bag. Have a seat, Ben.

We got this. Yeah, we got this. Don't even trip, dog. But like when you when you got to the Phoenix era, were you been more aware of where you were at? Did you, were you a bit more in the moment than you were when you were at in Philly? I didn't remember Philly. That happened so fast. It was there.

It was happening. I was in it and it was gone. And I couldn't even remember what happened. It happened so fast. But Phoenix, yeah, for sure, because, you know, first of all, like, I was playing a larger role in that. Like, you know, I was having to answer more. more questions. I was more present. Like there was more shit that was being asked of me that that kind of anchored me to the success of the team. So I was more acutely aware of that. And then obviously,

you know, I had I had been around a little bit at that point. So I had seen more things played on different teams, knew that it wasn't just a birthright to be in the finals because I had been in it and never been back to them. So, so there were, there were things that were, I had a lot more perspective at that point. But, you know, it was like, you know, Rob, Rob Horry was like, there are a lot of dudes like this where those playoffs, you could tell that that meant something. Because they, like, you could smell the popcorn popping. Do you know what I mean? Like instead of maybe just hearing it, you can smell it.

Like you're coming at an arena and all senses are heightened. You're like, goddamn, those lights are bright tonight. You're like, you know what I mean? Like the spiky senses are tingling. So that's a playoff. It's interesting because you feel like, I don't know. I feel like I'm in the Roger Bell era of that. You know what I mean?

Like the, like the Golden State like beat. writing era. I don't even remember that shit, bro. Sometimes I got to watch, like, highlights to be like, what the fuck? I was there. Like, what the fuck? Like, because you're, because I'd imagine you felt like this when you were, uh, in the Sixers, you were like, I just don't want to fucking fail. I don't want to get fired. I don't, I got, I got nowhere to go. And like, you know, when you're in Phoenix and this time, feel like right now, you're like, oh, like, I know this feeling right now. I got to meet the moment at this point. You're more of a professional now. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Right. You've, you've, you've, you've You've solidified that you are a professional. You're more secure in the fact that you're a professional. And that early stage is like you're just trying to hang on. You're just trying to hang on. But like when you're in Phoenix or like when you're veteran, this is how I'm feeling now. You're like, it's a different level of I can't go back.

But it's like I know what I'm doing. I'm fine. I'm on stable ground here. You know what I'm saying? Confidence security. Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to go back. I mean, obviously I don't want to go back.

But I'm not going to go back because I know how to not go back. Exactly. Right? Whereas like when you were a billion, I was it going to stay. I don't know. Oh, shit. I don't know what the fuck to do, bro. Like, but that's, like, it's just so interesting.

The different perspectives, right? And then it's like, then like three, four years, especially for an NBA player, you're like, yeah, it's about time for me to get the fuck up out of here. I did everything I need to do. I'm just holding on to what? Like, I don't know. It's interesting because I'm feeling that way with, uh, with LeBron right now, like, where he's at this point where he's at this point where he's,

He's all vibes at this point. He's figuring, he's like, he's, he's mastered, he's like me on Grand Theft Auto 5. He's mastered the game. He's won it so many different times. And he's just like, yo, I'm here, man. Like, I'm just, he had a quote the other day. It was like, I'm just playing one-on-one with Father Time. Yeah, that's deep.

It's, it's made you to even think something like that, bro. Like, you, like, how do you? But he looks like that when he's, I mean, when you watch him play now, like, there's not, You know, remarkably, there doesn't seem to be coming off of a year like last year, you would think there'd be some pressure. Yeah. You'd think you could see and feel the pressure. Like from the outside world, we talk about them and we associate pressure with them all the time. He don't look like he feels any pressure.

He literally looks like he's just out there vibes, playing father time. Like, what was weird? Like even last night when I was watching him play, I mean, obviously I wasn't an arena. But like, I kind of had a feeling that like, oh, the Lakers are going to win this game when they're at home. but like two like LeBron and it's weird like I was also at the game when he played a game sorry Ben Cruz close years I was at the 2018 finals game one where like one of the best LeBron games I'd ever seen one of the best games of all time but he was on a court where with against Durant Steph Draymond Clay all these guys in the prime of their careers and it didn't matter. LeBron has that ability to kind of just float through a game and win it when it needs to happen. And so, like, it's hard. We always go on this conversation about like, yo, Anthony Davis needs to like tap in and like take that baton.

But then you see LeBron like score 15 and a half or in a quarter and you're like, well, how does he do that? I don't even know. Like, how was he not the best player on the team? How do you even like say that he can do that? Yeah. I mean, look, he's going to be the best player on the team. He doesn't have to be the one counted on to do the lion's share of the lifting all the time. That would be where I kind of draw the line for him.

Because, I mean, he can, LeBron could average 40 points a game if he wanted to at some points in his career. He did last year at a point in time during stretches where he just says, I'm going to score. I'll average 36 for two weeks. Yeah, but I mean, I think he could have averaged 40 for a season. If he was like, yo, I'm going to average 40 for a season. and don't really care what this does in terms of winning or losing necessarily, but, like, I'm just going to show you that I can average 40 a game. Like, he's just that type of physical and skilled freak.

But what, in all the brilliance that is LeBron right now, and however cool you might think it is to watch, and I certainly do because I watched him last night come down the stretch and just kind of put him on their back. And he's on a court against Devin Booker is probably like peak Devin Booker so far. And, like, Katie's having the best offensive season like seen. Como in the paint, snake pick and roll, Bob, pop his feet, kind of faded on the free throw, like, let me take it to the cup. Lay, like, he was just, he was really just out there on some body, like really cool, didn't look like there was much pressure.

And I'm still sitting here yelling to you that if he has to do that. Yeah. Over the course of an entire season for them to pull out games, like they pulled the game out last night, that's not sustainable for him at that age. I just don't believe that. Now, I don't bet against him. Yeah, I still don't bet against him. I don't. You said all that shit.

I'm not going to bet against him. But I just don't think it's in their best interest as a team for that to be what it has to be for them to win games over and over again. But I don't think Anthony, and also like, let's also give other credit. They have more athleticism on their team with Vando coming back with Ruey playing. Sure, sure. They do have a little bit more help. Sure. But I just don't think eight, and it's not even a slight to him.

And I'm kind of coming into your line of thinking, and I hate you for it. But AD just doesn't have it in them to be like, no, bro, I'm going to take that. So when LeBron's going off, he's going to be like, all I bet, I'm a block. I'm going to do everything that I can in support of what you got going. So like I just, that's. And in fairness to AD, like not to cut you off, but in fairness to AD, like that's a difficult thing. That's like you're playing hopscotch. Like, and you're watching LeBron go off and you're like, well, shit, I need to get back in.

When is it time to get back in? When is it time to get back in? And that's not an easy thing throughout the course of a game, especially if LeBron's water turns off. If that faucet turns off with four minutes to go, let's say, and you've basically been watching him for a whole half of basketball. And then at the four minute mark, how does that fuck up your rhythm? Just watching and not doing anything. I mean, you ain't touching the ball.

Like, look, most scorers in the NBA, even if they're efficient scores, there's an element of like, there's some sort of volume that you have to get up to be scoring, right? Like, let's say you're a 50% score. Like, you ain't an 80% score. So you need to miss half of the shots to be able to get the numbers, right? So if you're, you know, if you're not getting those shots, then you ain't going to have the numbers because you're not going to magically just shoot 80% because you're getting half of the shots now. So having the ball, touching the ball, being able to, I always felt like even just being able to make a play in the offense with the ball. Like Mike D'Antoni, I would tell him, I don't need a shot necessarily.

It'd be great if I got one, but I don't need it. Like, just if I could touch it within what we're doing, then I feel the ball. Like, I feel like I'm involved. And so when it comes back to me, I can knock it down. And so that's the difficult part for a dude like AD. For me, it didn't matter. I wasn't going to have to carry us to a win, right? But for somebody like AD who in theory would need to carry you for four minutes of a basketball game,

if he's watching for a quarter and three quarters of the next quarter, that's a tough thing sometimes to hop back in and say, I got you. Let me score it now. Yeah, we'll see what happens. Let's go in there. Let's do some predictions. I know that's your favorite thing to do. Yeah, I love you.

You know that. Yeah, I mean, let's go to the Eastern Conference semifinal. We have the Bucs Pacers. Who do you have in that one? Damn it. That's tough. That's tough. It's tougher than you think, bro.

It is because I told you, like, in one game, in one game, scenario. I'm still sitting here screaming this. In one game scenarios, I don't want to play them. Like, they just, they're going to shoot, like, what to me looks like some wild ass shots. Like, I still think Boston would beat them in, like, five games in a series. I tend to believe

that, too, but, like, they just, offensively, they get really hot and they can score a lot of points. Having said that, I'm going to take Milwaukee game. You're applying your LeBron argument, to Yannis. Having said that, I'm going to take the look.

The way they looked against, I know they ain't going to shoot the way they shot against the Knicks. But I think the Dame Janice duo is getting better every time we see it. I still think that is trending in the right direction. What is about a neutral site though, right? Because what does a neutral site do for any team? That'll be interesting. That'll be interesting. I think more so for the Pacers than for the Bucs.

Yeah. You know, for the, they play off of, you know, pace and energy. What's the difference for the layman that doesn't know that there's between a neutral site in a home away site. Yeah. Energy. Well, first of all, I mean, like, obviously the obvious, like, logistics, like, you're not in your own bed.

You're not eating what you typically eat from the person you eat it from, whether that's, you know, a significant other. Even though Vegas is a great, great restaurants. Great restaurants. You know what I mean? But, like, it's just throwing your daily routine at a home game off. But some teams more than others, like, and I think the Pacers would fall into this because of the way they play, they can be energy driven.

And so they typically start the energy with the way they play. It's exciting. They're up and down. Halliburton's hitting threes. Buddy Hill, boom, Bruce Brown. Like they're, you know, Miles Turner. They're cooking. And then that crowd gets involved.

And now the energy is just ping pong and back and forth between the team and the crowd, team in the crowd, team in the crowd. And it sustains them, you know, like, it was pretty cool to watch. Like, that shit was just electric. You don't necessarily get that when you're not in your own building. Like you certainly don't get it from the, when you're the away team. But in a neutral site, you just don't have the, you know, the amount of fans that you, that your arena's not saturated with your own fans.

So you might not get that energy bouncing back at you. And that could be a thing. I'm not guaranteeing that it will be, but it could be for a team like, like the Pacers that are relatively new to this, young, play with a lot of energy where Milwaukee's like the antithesis of that, like not young, relatively old, kind of been there, done that. don't always come out of the gate super fast, but just figure, hey man, we're going to beat you at the end of it. So I think their style probably lends itself

maybe to that neutral site more than the Pacer's stuff. Okay, so let's go to the West. Who you got? Who you got? I got Milwaukee. More because of the experience, right? Like, I trust Milwaukee's experience in a game like this where I think the Pacers are still figuring themselves out in a lot of ways.

I don't have a good answer other than I'm just going to go with the field. Can I hedge and just say, boy, if they get hard. No, no, no. You always do that shit. You always do that shit. If they get hot. Mr. Devil's advocate. Fair.

Let's go to the West. Pelicans, Lakers. I'm going to go. I'm going to go with the Lakers because just of what I said earlier and big games, LeBron want that money. And I'm going to, I'm going to pick LeBron when the chips are down before I pick B.I. and Zion. to carry the load.

I'm sorry. So I would be a real hypocrite. I can appreciate that. I can appreciate that. And I just said I don't bet against LeBron. So I'm not going to get a bet against LeBron. I too will take the Lakers. But I think that.

I think, nah, you know what? Fuck it. I'm taking the Pelicans. You're taking a Pelican? Why? Defensive, versatility, length. And I don't know, man. Like, again, LeBron's phenomenal.

Yes. Yeah, I'm taking the paint. I'm taking the pelicans. I don't think you believe that. What kind of a fucking pod would it be if I'm sitting here? Ben, put it on the thing that he's picking the Pelicans, but I still am calling bullshit on this. I still think he's hedging and I don't think he believes himself.

I may not. But it wouldn't be a good pod if we read on everything. That's fair. Okay. All right. So who you got, you got Janus then. winning it all on the bucks one at all okay i got i got lakers playing the bucks and i'm going to pick you bet not do that you don't even believe that i'll pick the lakers yep you don't believe that

all right you know all right then we're even motherfucker they were even motherfucker all right man let's let's get to uh it's about we gave you guys 50 minutes 50 minutes 50 minutes hey listen i was in a shitty mood when i came over i'd walk all the way the i called raja no no listen i'm telling you this right now because Raja was mad and did not want to answer my phone call. I was literally going to give him a ride. I was right near the area. I was not a call. I was like, yo, bro, I'm about to call the car.

Be you want me to swoop you. And he didn't answer the fucking phone. His fault. I'm not going to lie though. We bought Virgos. We got hell of pride. I understand it. So I let him cook when he did that shit.

But I was calling your ass to fucking give you a ride. Like, both mucker, I got the, I got the car. right here. Do you want the car to come pick you out? Listen, listen, listen. But he was over here fucking walking the strip mad as fuck. Mad, bro. Seathing.

Seathing. We stood in a cab line for five minutes and that's like, can I walk to? And he was like, yeah, just going to out. I was like, all right, if I'm going to walk. Vegas walks are always longer than the GPS says they're going to be. Every time. Oh. You want to ride back to your hotel?

No, to walk. Okay. All right, no. All right. We're going to run to the week. I'm happy to see you, bud. I'm going to give you to a real one in a week, bro. Like real shit.

I'm really going to do you real one of the week, dog. I know we're not sappy on Zoom, but it's really good to see you, my dog. It's been a long time covering. Yeah. We started this shit in 2020. Wow.

Three years. Finally got to see my dog. Rural one of the week. Three years. It's been three years. It's been three years, dog. More than three years. With Steph Curry, you guys can go back

and listen to that. That's right. One of the three years. God, dog. Let's see. Real one of the week. Alexa. Alexa will get my real one of the week.

I don't know her last name. But Alexa, it was ideal. get, it's who I deal with to get my flights. Okay. And obviously, I mean, you know this, having legs. It can be very difficult, you know, traveling four hours at a time with to pack your, tuck your legs up somewhere, right?

So like, for that reason, just, I have a lot of requests on, on flights. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, especially long flights. I just found out that we're kind of the same, almost the same height. Yeah. You didn't want to admit it. You don't want to fucking admit it.

And to it, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you were taller than I thought. but Alexa has been very, very patient with me and very accommodating and she held it down. And so I'll give her a real one of the week because I made it. I'm here. And I'll tell you what, my flight was at 9 this morning and it's 745. I wasn't sure I was going to be here. So I made it here.

I remember he, after the call, yes, a Monday, he was like, I don't know if I'm going to make it. And I was just like, I was so fucking just tired. I was like, I think I just said, all right, motherfucker. It's just into Zoom. I was like, I was just so scared. I'm not dealing with this shit. Anyways, first and hopefully not last in person, real ones, I think we're good.

I think we can still do the pod. I think we could still do it. I think it was kind of nervous. It worked it out. I mean, it was, we were going to find out. We're going to figure it out. Yeah. All right, pod is, we'll see you guys on Monday from Zoom with Howard,

mother fucking back. Great. We're going to get some dinner. I'm hungry as shit. I'm talking to you guys on Monday. Bye. Must be 21 years and older and president's select states. FanDuel is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with the Kansas Star Casino LLC. LLC.

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