The Ringer NBA Show - What's Next for Hawks, Knicks and Nuggets After Game 3 Wins and the Raptors' Future Post-Nick Nurse Firing

Episode Date: April 22, 2023

Welcome to The Ringer NBA Show's Saturday reactions with J. Kyle Mann and Tyler Parker. Over the course of the 2023 playoffs the two will be discussing and reacting to games and NBA news every Saturday. This week the guys discuss Game 3s for the Hawks-Celtics (2:02), Knicks-Cavs (16:55), and the Nuggets-Timberwolves. (31:57). Later in the pod, the two share their reactions to the Raptors firing head coach Nick Nurse after 5 seasons (42:26). Hosts: J. Kyle Mann and Tyler Parker Producer: Jade Whaley Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone, it's Ariel Hawani, and I wanted to let you know that each and every week, I'm part of a great program called The Ringer MMA Show. I hosted alongside two absolutely brilliant minds. Their names, Chuck Mindenhall and Pizzie Carroll, and every Thursday, a new episode drops where we preview the weekend in mixed martial arts and react to all the biggest news. Plus, after every UFC pay-per-view, we give you a post-fight show. So this is what you have to do. Just follow the Ringer M-M-M-A show on your Spotify app.

So you don't miss an episode. We'll talk to you then. Folks basketball is very good. It is so, so very good this time of the year. This is a special reactionary edition of the Ringer NBA show. My name is Jake Kyleman. I am joined by a fellow that I love to talk basketball with, Tyler Parker, author, actor, a guy that I...

Tyler and I have one of my favorite bits that I have with any person that I do over text. And that is, and I don't remember. how this started, but we started sending each other audio clips of us talking about the NBA as Harvey Firestein. Yes. I think specifically as Harvey Firestein, like very frazzled Harvey Firestein in Independence Day. It's always Independence Day. It's always like, oh my God, David. Yeah. It's very, he's very frazzled, but also just so pleased with what he's watching. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Maybe he's distressed by his emotional reaction, but it's always Independence Day. And I always enjoy when I get a random one. I think I was in the airport, like with just like earbuds in and you sent me one to my phone. The best ones are the ones that always just to start with you doing a long David. David. Anyway, just that's a window into the bizarre basketball talking friendship that Tyler and I have. But last night, Friday night, we're recording this on Saturday morning. We got a handful of game threes.

And I think that, you know, when we were talking about, like, the order of sort of pertinence with these, I think the chronological order kind of played out the way that the pertinence did. I think that the way they unfolded in time was kind of the way they unfolded in level of interest. The first one that we, so we had a Hawks Celtics game. We had game three of Cavs and Knicks. And then we had game three of Minnesota Timberwolves and Denver Nuggets. But we're going to start with Hawks Celtics. This series seemed like, you know, games one and two, it really seemed like Boston was kind of playing with their food a little bit.

I don't know. It kind of seems like whenever you see a predator who is just sort of, you know, messing around with something that they've clearly already conquered. The challenge didn't quite feel there. It seemed like Boston's sort of like connectivity and athleticism and size on the perimeter was giving Atlanta a lot of problems. But Atlanta comes out, their first home game of the series here. what did you see from Atlanta? Do you think that this was first? I mean, overall, do you think that this was a sign of life in a, like, in a long-term

way that can mean something for the longevity of the series? Or do you think that this was sort of like one of those extinction bursts before, like, something dies out? What did you see from the Hawks? I mean, all my money on the table, I'd still put it on the Celtics as far as the series is concerned. I think the exciting thing is just how explosive the Hawks. bench was and how Quinn was cool writing with what was working and that that could be married

with, you know, Trey and DeJante ultimately having, you know, really good games, you know, especially, you know, on, on, on the Trey's part, considering, you know, it being the playoffs and against the Celtics team that's given him just fits. I think that all those things happened at once, you can say like, oh, it took all that for them to win. And so they're in trouble going forward. And there's probably something to that. But that they did put all that together. And at least for a game, have that plan of Dejante and Trey kind of makes sense on a grand scale.

You know, I think if I was a Hawks fan, I think you're feeling about as good as you could possibly feel, right? Like, you know, all things considered going from basically like two days ago is, you know, are they going to trade, Trey in the offseason, that sort of stuff. It was a negative week for Trey Young. It was a negative week for the Hawks, I think. I could feel them getting a little defensive, and I understood why. But the Trey abuse was pretty rampant throughout the week, I felt like. It's just, I'm always like, it always blows my hair back a little bit at start of every

playoffs, just how just wild and intense the narrative swings can be with some of this stuff where you just like it doesn't take a, I think a lot about the Chris Paul last year against the Pels where it's basically like, man, I think that, you know, they're going to have to put him out to pasture. And then the next game, he goes 14 for 14. You know what I mean? It's like, you know, Jose Alvarado is, you know, the great Chris Paul stopper, you know, he's officially in his head, you know, blah, blah, blah. And then Chris Paul comes out and goes 14 for 14. It just sort of, it feels like those sorts of things happen in the playoffs a lot. Yeah.

Everybody gets very ready to dump on someone and call it over. And then very quickly it shifts back to, well, hey, and now maybe the, you know, or do the Celtics have some problems that way, you know, it just, everyone gets so excited to have some, you know. I think the point that you made about, you know, in the playoffs, you always want to have shopmakers, obviously. Shotmakers are the thing that can like connect together. droughts or they can keep, they can keep your plants watered is always like a phrase of,

I think I heard Clark Kellogg saying one time and I just always used that. It's like just keeping. That's a great Clark Kelloggism right there. That's really good. Kelloggism. But no, I mean, through this game, you mentioned it like, Trey had a great game. Deontay had a great game. They did a lot of work in the pick and roll. But there was a stretch of this game that I think was the most important. They had a 20 to three run during the second quarter that was really second unit heavy. And I wrote down here and started that like there's always a takeaway from a run. If you look at playoff games, like there's always one thing. There's something to glean. Like the team tried something. And that's kind of where you can pinpoint and hone in on

on what maybe a team is going to adjust to. But that second, you know, that second quarter run, 20 to three, during that stretch, Deontay Murray was attacking and getting into the mid-range. There was a really fun. There was a really fun. And I don't know that I had really paid attention to this dynamic, this mono and mono thing in the past. But there was a Jalen Brown Deontay thing kind of going on during this game. Did you catch wind of that? There was a, there, Jonte had a lot, had several different moments with Brown matched up on him where, you know, it's not even like he shook free of him, really, just he kind of got to his spot in the mid-range and Brown had a good contest and it just didn't matter. Yeah. And it's, you don't, you don't often see Brown locked in and

playing good defense and still getting got like that. And so it stood out in that way. And it was, it was, you know, on some level, you know, that's what, you know, whenever they went out and got him, that's what they were hoping for. Like, you know, everybody's key in on trade too much. We got to have somebody else that can go get theirs. And at least, you know, last night he did. I mean, he was, he was nails on the fourth. I mean, it was really fun to watch him elevate to the to the moment like that. Yeah, yeah. I had it written down here at about 620.

He had like a mid-range pull-up out of a pick and roll. And not to mention our guy Boggi Bogdanovich, who one of the really hilarious, there's always, you know how the press box has like the overwork Twitter joke thing? There's always that one fringe detail about a player from their past or something that like it's not beaten over the head, but it's brought up in a way where people, people, it's in the zone where people think it's an insightful thing to add, but with Bogey, the one that people, did you know that? Did you know that? Yeah, it's stuff like that. If he signs an autograph, or if he signs an autograph, he signs it left handed. Yeah, there's always one of those. Yeah,

and then there's, well, with Bogie, the one is always like, well, he played in European championships. So he's got the, he's got the nerves for this, Tyler. People will always bring that one up, like, man, I know, I watch ball. That's one of the, that's one of the classics. But Bogie had a big, uh, if you drop a finer body. If you drop a finer body. reference into just an everyday basketball talk. People, they leave with chills. I mean, yeah, they do. I said one time I gave advice to like, I'm in a position to do this, but I was given advice on Twitter to like people who find themselves in basketball viewing environments and but they're not really into the sport and they want to have like the one thing

that they could say. Oh, sure. Yeah. I was like the one thing that I suggested was I was like, pick a player on the team, like quickly get on your phone and look at the heights of the players on the team, and say, you know, I would go on there and say like they should run such and such at the five at the center. I said walk up, walk up to a group of guys that are really watching,

guys, girls, whoever is in the game, and walk up and just say they should run a T stival at the five or something like that and just step away as the grenade explodes. And don't say anything else so that they think like, yeah, It's a genius here at the, you know, like, because guys, guys are, they're, you know, they're freaks for the, the such and such at the five. That's like a, I can't miss comment. Oh, that's great. You throw in a little, I mean, I just, I think, you know, whatever Heidi is, like, I just think he plays a lot bigger than six, eight. You know, I like the, you can sprinkle in a lot of good little stuff on top of that. Yeah. You drop a tibble at the five bomb in some Portland bar. People are going to, but when you get out of the bathroom, you're going to have drinks waiting on you. For sure. sure. Yeah, it's like that scene, I watch a lot of Pixar since I have a toddler, but that scene where

Remy hears the bread crust, you know, and he like makes this like, he's tantalized by it. I feel like basketball nerd, like bloggy nerd kind of people, they're like, if they hear an at the five thing, they're like, oh, there's something about it that they just can't resist. But no, Bogie, Bogie, I don't think he was going to be running at the five, but he does give them a lot of, like, he's always been one of my favorite players. But like throughout this game, this second quarter. He actually hit some big shots. He's just fearless, man. Like off the dribble, contested shot making

stuff, like in the playoffs, you got to have that and you got to have multiple dudes that can do that. And yeah, his in-between game, he's got, he's just, it's, you don't feel him getting rushed and you feel him enjoying the

conflict. You know what I mean? Like, he's like, he meets the energy of the game in a way that I think you like to see. Like, he's, he's, he's not a guy who is going to get small in the corners whenever you need somebody to take that shot. He'll take that. You know what I mean?

Yeah, he's getting, he's getting fiery after makes and things like that. I think if you watch his body language. But in this game, you know, they did get some kind of return. You know, Sadiq Bay played a little bit better at home in this when he was five or seven. Yeah. For a while there, he wasn't missing a shot. I was, Bay was a big part of that second quarter run. I mean, Jalen Johnson had some really nice moments there.

Like, you know, us in the Jalen Johnson hive, we welcome any new members who watched the game yesterday and want to join. Yeah, no, but I was, yeah, just all the, all the bench play for them yesterday was to be able to weather that shooting storm from the Celtics in the first quarter, or whatever, they had 13-3s or something like that, to be able to kind of, you know, just stay attached in the first place and not let go of the rope was impressive, especially because they had just sort of felt so overmashed early on in the series.

Like, you know, I don't think it would have been surprising to see with the self-shooting like that, you know, them to get down on themselves and start kind of looking around. But the, no, I mean, they just kind of kept peddled down. Yeah, that, that bench lineup was just gigantic for them. I mean, they were getting in the paint, crazy. I loved having Hubey on the call so much.

The Hube's on the call. It always makes me happen. But the, like, what is 36, there was a third, at some point he said it was 36, 10 points in the bank in the first half for the Hawks. Yeah, the paint touches were, we're good. I mean, basketball really does kind of, like,

paint touches are kind of a key thing that, like, I always look for. I don't think that's a unique thing. That's a unique take, but like they, they were getting in the paint. And I was going to ask you, like, I think that that's an interesting sort of, whether or not the hawks can make this an excruciating close out for the Celtics, I feel like one of the things to note here is that like the hawks were really, really after hearing a week and hearing me talk about and me say that like Derek White

would be maybe somebody I would consider over Trey Young. Trey went at Derek White and Al Horford in the pick and roll during this, during this game. Yeah. To shut the door, to shut the door, he roasted. Derek White off the dribble. And you could see Derek White feeling it on his way to the bench after that. Like it, keep going. Sorry.

Yeah, well, I was just curious. I mean, do you think that before we like kind of move on the next series, but do you think that the Horford drop thing there, are they going to have to change up who's on trade? Do you think that like we had, we got a weird Robert Williams game. You know, he played 20 minutes, but he kind of got victimized by Deonté here and there.

It just, we didn't, whenever Rob wasn't in the game, which was a lot. Horford got a lot of minutes in this game, well, 30, but it seemed like he was in picking rolls against Trey a lot more frequently. I'm just kind of wondering, are they going to need to make some kind of an adjustment in terms of like who is there? Because if he's going to be able to roast Derek White like that off the dribble, and Al's dropping, I love Al, but he was dropping and given a lot of space. And that's kind of the, that's where Trey thrives in that high pick and roll.

82.1 percent of Trey's picking rolls in the playoffs have been high picking rolls. If he can get in the middle like that and you're not making him move east west, that's tough. He could make the series interesting, but how interesting, I guess, is the question. Yeah, that's it. I still have a lot of faith in the Celtics defense, despite the success that the Hawks showed last night. I just think they've got enough length behind him. I mean, it wouldn't, you know, Trace caught a rhythm and torch people before. It wouldn't be unheard of, right?

if he, you know, kind of rides the wave and goes ballistic in game four again and really makes it a series. But it's kind of the length behind the length. I think the thing that they can do with Trey, too, is just kind of you keep trying to beat him up on the other end. You know what I mean? I think that, you know, you can kind of continue to try to attack him down there because there's still really not any place to hide him against a team like the Celtics. they have so many playmakers and so many big dudes who can make you pay either with playmaking or just shopmaking on their own. I'm not like I'm not I'm not ready to say that Trey's just figured out something here against

them, I don't guess, but that Trey had some of the passing stuff last night going was interesting too. And if they've got, if they've got guys that are hitting around him like Bay and Bogdanovich and Murray were like, you know, he's got a lot of space to play. in those situations. And so it could make it interesting for sure. What's your vibe on that? Do you think that the, do you think that they've figured something out there that they can,

you know, exploit going forward? I don't know. I think it's more about Boston, honestly. I think Boston does have, and that's the thing about the roster that they've built. I think they have more options. I do think that they could work, they could, if time Lord, if they know for sure that they can keep him healthy through this series, I kind of understand keeping him on a little bit, but as much as you can.

But I think they have like switching at the level options. I think I just, I don't know. I do think that they have the defensive options. And, you know, last night they kind of got in a rhythm. It was a weird Tatum game. There was just a lot of odd things that I think will kind of regress to the mean. But let's move on to the other games on the slate. The second game I thought was really fun.

I mean, you know, there's the cliche thing of like the garden, playoffs in the garden. It's a cliche because it's pretty true. You know, you see New York fans, generations of, of, ball knowers and ball lovers really, really hyped. You got Spike Lee down there in his Brunson jersey. Yeah. So Cleveland came out of the last game. They responded. You know, Darius Garland was a lot more aggressive, but in the first quarter of this game, it was kind of back and forth, but we saw RJ Barrett play pretty aggressive in the first quarter. But this one got away from the Cavs. What's your just sort of first broad narrative takeaway from this game three where the Knicks

kind of ran away from Cleveland. Yeah, I mean, just sort of the Knicks, you know, kind of exercising the offensive demons faster than the calves could in that third quarter, that, you know, that first half was really, really ugly. I mean, that was a real like 90s NBA rock fight and, you know, stylistically not all that enjoyable. But the in the third quarter once Brunson

kind of caught a rhythm and they started figuring some stuff out with those small, small pick and rolls and they were able to kind of keep Brunson away from Allen and Mowbly in them and it turned

into you know, Brunson kind of dancing past these guys. That'll kind, I think that'll be my sort of lasting image from that game is just the kind of artistry from him and the land. I mean, he's just like, it's, he's

pretty to watch work. Like, it's great. Two things I'd like to unpack from that. So you said the small, small, pick and roll thing. In this game alone, just between Emmanuel quickly and Brunson, we got seven pick and rolls just between those two. They only did two combined in games one and two. What do you think the advantage

of, I feel like there's, in the past, like, three-ish years, I feel like the, like, who screens who revolution has really kind of exploded in the NBA? You know, I think we've talked a lot about like quote unquote smalls. We saw a guy like Bruce Brown screening for Katie and Hardin and Kyrie and things like that. But small screening small, what do you think the advantage of that is? Like what, why do you think that that would work in any given situation and how is it different, you know? I mean, it just you keep, especially it seemed like the Kaz where the strength

their defense is on the back end. And, you know, if you're Brunson, you know, you're fine kind of operating, you know, from, you know, middle paint and out, you're keeping, you know, these dangerous, you know, lengthy dudes away from a guy who is on the smaller side and, you know, can get, you know, lanes closed down easier than on. you know, they can't see over the defense as well as some other lead ball handlers can, right? And so, yeah, I just think they were doing a good job of like kind of trying to keep length away from him when they could and let him operate in space against guys that are just, you know, easier to deal with in that part of the floor, right?

I mean, but yeah, they got it. They had a lot of success with Hart being the screener. Like I imagine that'll continue until the calves show something, you know, to stop that. But it, it, I mean, when Brunson gets going

the way that he did in the third, you know, there's not a lot of guards that are more fun to watch than him right now. The footworks just bonkers. And yeah,

the touch feels really, really special. Yeah. It was, it was, I mean, you and I, texting with you last night,

is, it's just really fun to watch him, ISO at a guy. And I'm not even necessarily like a hero ball kind of dude. But when he gets a switch that he's happy with, the he's got more burst than you think and just yeah kind of all the pivots in there are just

like there's just so great he has some yeah he has some interesting pivot footwork stuff i think something that's kind of fascinating to watch is like when these teams try to keep like more than one big on the floor you know the mowgli allen thing i i feel like when you put players in actions defensively that maybe they're not as used to guarding Like in space, if you have like a smaller guard, and this happened a couple different times, they just took advantage of the fact that like Donovan and Garland's like technique approaching Brunson and the ball screen, they just got fooled. And I, you know, I saw the clip of like Mitchell yelling on the bench.

And I don't know if that was on offense or defense. I didn't get to see which clip caused that to happen. But Mitchell just got burned a couple times because Brunson gave a simple ball fake like he was going to go left and he went right. Yeah. They got that. And then that opens up kind of driving lanes for Brunton to get into paint. You're right. It's interesting that like at six foot two, he is as dominant as he is. Like once he gets into the paint. I was kind of curious. This was something, you know, I quickly, we want to move on. But like quickly I wanted to just touch on like what is it about that with the guys? Like I feel like Kyrie has it. Steph has it. These guys that have like crazy, crazy touch in that like 12 to 15 foot rank, maybe even. more than that. But like, why are those guys able to be so effective despite being so small? I think it's like once the launch angle, once the touch is so good that the launch angle on the shot kind of stops mattering, like the amount of air that he's getting on, getting under some of these shots, like they're fadeaways or they're jumpers, but they're shot at like the

trajectory of a floater. He gets so much air underneath them. It's just hard for a, especially in these small, small switching scenarios, the guy just doesn't have quite enough length to be able to get to him. And because he can get it up so fast, I think his balance is really special. I think that he... Strong trunk on that on that guy. He had a play like,

I think it was like kind of late third quarter against, he just took a corral off the dribble. and it Acoro beat him to the spot but Brunson kind of gathered up over the top of him a little bit and then just came down with one foot kind of planted off his right and then

elevated up immediately kind of straight up and even back a little bit and then kind of shot one of those like shot it like a jumper but if he had let it go and you looked away at the point where he let it go and then you looked back when the ball was in midair you would have thought it was a floater that type of thing

you know what I mean? Yeah yeah. And it just, you know, know, all net. And there were, there were a number of those where you see him get, like, his brakes are unbelievable, like Callahan Auto, premium top of the line, you know, like his ability to stop, pivot back, you know, get, get him to buy, because he's so good when he stops and then gets into that fade away, he's got that counter now where if people bite on that fade away too hard too early, he'll just pivot right back and, you know, step through and shoot some

little floater with that with nobody around him. He had a nasty one where he like reversed it. Yeah, and it shot. I forget who was on him. It was in the first quarter, but he, he had one where he just abs, it was probably Lavert. He kind of made Lavert look lost at different points whenever he got him in switches. All those, I mean, I love those, you know, I love Garland so much. And it was a bummer to see him, to see him struggle like that. You know, he's, hopefully his ankle's okay, even healthy. He's in over his head matched up one-on-on-one with Brunson. I mean, Brunson's going to eat every time there.

They've, yeah, they got to figure something out there. Yeah, I think a couple other takeaways from this, I would say. I still think that this series is going to go long. I think that the Knicks are going to make it, I still kind of lean towards the Knicks winning this just because I think that the creation is so strained. You know, Cleveland is spinning a lot of plates trying to find ways to get the, and I think it kind of

uncovers a whole developmental conversation about Evan Mobley that I think will be had about like, what's it going to take for him to not disappear in these types of games. Right. But I do also think that Cleveland really just missed, they also missed a lot of shots. Despite New York defending well, like Garland specifically missed some shots that he makes normally.

It didn't. The Cavs struggles didn't feel at least from the perimeter dudes, it didn't feel as much, like, due to the Knicks defense really. Like, they were getting, especially early, like, you know, you're pretty pleased with those looks that you're getting. Garland's usually making that stuff, Mitchell's same thing. I think that the area of the Knicks defense that, you know, deserves a lot of credit as just Robinson's activity down there, like on the interior around the rim.

Like, you know, he's definitely got people thinking about it. it before they go up with it and you can feel him kind of affecting i mean he he had a unbelievable unbelievable line they they asked him about it after the game and he was like someone asked him they said they're struggling in the pain especially around the rim do you see them hesitating and robinson goes you saw that he goes you saw it because you saw it definitely he said i mean kyle says he goes he said big fella come over there and then he's he goes big fella come over there and then he like rubbed his shoulders like he was cold and then he said shook up i mean robinson we don't have time to fully i wanted to we don't have time to fully sort of like legislate

his like ratedness but i do think that he is sneakily one of the best values in the league i think that you know he's i told i said in our notes i was like he is like a punch line that needs a setup like he's that type of guy like sure very similar to like developmentally to like the andre jordan like they They were picked in the same spot. They were sort of weirdly valued when they were like 19, 20 years old. And then they get with like a point God and they do really well. I want to give, I want to make sure and say like, you know, I do think that Cleveland had had their chances. But I don't want to short New York this like historic like kind of opportunity.

Like they, this is the example here. So they held them to 38.8% field goal percentage in this game. You know, Cleveland's two lowest. field goal percentage games of the year. Well, let's see the other one was Toronto, but they've held them to like two or their three lowest field goal percentage numbers of the year. So the other one was in December 34.9

when they held them to 81 points. And this game was their season low in point total in 79, and one of the lowest point totals of the year for any team. So don't want to short them on credit defensively against the Cavs. No, for sure. I think that, I mean, I think that they're clearly doing some things just on a physical level, too, that's got that is, you know, Cleveland is having to consider, I think just the Knicks are just a more

physical team. They're, you know, kind of up and down the lineup. I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't think defense is a problem for either of the teams, really. It hasn't, it hasn't, I mean, they, they need to, they need to figure out the Brunson stuff, but even still like, you know, it's not, they're not, it's not like the Knicks were running away from them in a, in a, you know, Kings, Clippers, you know, double overtime one 40 piece kind of game, right? It was the, the, It doesn't, in the end, it doesn't feel like that the game is necessarily being lost on that end, I guess. That's, yeah. Yeah.

It's a series that I think is going to remain interesting. The Ocoro Green kind of juggling act that Bickerstaff is doing is fun. And another way that I think that something that Cleveland is going to have to shore up here is the end of quarter runs. There were three, yeah, two different occasions. They had a five-oh run at the end of the second quarter and an eight-oh run at the end. end of the third. I put in our doc, like, this is something that you hear, NBA people talk about that like if you can catch teams, I guess, you know, an end of quarter execution is sort of different. It's just a different animal. And if you have a

team that is balanced, well, I don't know, like LeBron had that tweet where he said that that's like, let me, let me pull up the exact wording that he had on this. A majority of playoff games are one on how you close each quarter quickly. Like what do you think, what do you think? Why is, is that a quality, what is that quality? How does a team obtain that quality? Is it coaching or is it a steady point guard? How do you do that? I don't know. I mean, on some level, it's, you're, you're probably thinking about the basics like, you know, when it, when it makes sense to go for a two for one and when it doesn't and stuff like that. But I think, I think it's, it's, understanding the time and the situation and what a quality shot really is. And the office,

knowing itself and knowing who is the person that needs to be taking those. I think sometimes in these, even in playoff games, you get in situations where it's like, this team doesn't know itself enough and somebody is taking this shot at this big time in the game that does not need to be taking this shot. And other, you know, really good teams, it seems like that that stuff doesn't happen as much. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. Jeff and Gunney also said it on the broadcast. So that's something that they can shore up also.

Is there anything else on this game? Let's see. I think we got. I mean, I think the other big thing in it was just the Cavs decision making just sort of across the board is pretty inexplicable. But like just so many turnovers, Nick's had like 28 points off of turnovers. You know what I mean? Like it was just sort of they, it was sort of a full scale kind of what are we doing here? It didn't look like the Cleveland that you'd been watching all year, like the ball would stick sometimes in certain situations where, you know, when they're at their best, it's kind of, it's, you know, moving pretty freely. You've got Garland and Mitchell, who play well in isolation situations and stuff like that,

but there were just something, the energy didn't feel right on offense last night at all. And, you know, they just felt like the decision-making would just sort of get, you keep expecting them to find their their rhythm and it just was like it they just would devolve even further from there they didn't get more it wasn't like they got more comfortable it was like they got you know shakier speaking of not the word shaky let's talk about a guy who is rarely shaken or sped up or bothered in any way and that's nikola yokic and the nuggets and the nuggets last night yeah that was that was a brilliant one right we were talking about uh we were talking about the wolves you know so Denver wins game three last night 120 to 1 11 this game on the road at at the

target center I'm sure Craig Kilbourne is all torn up about it probably sipping a martini and eating eating wearing Alan Edmond shoes and feeling frustrated by this game Alan Edmund shoes yeah yeah you ever worn a pair of Allen Edmonds I've never I've never worn a pair of Allen's I got to try I got to try to rectify that I used to work for a shoe site and I got to I got to hold the nice shoes I will so I'll I'll give Craig, you know, I know what Craig's talking about whenever he... I'm not a big dress shoes guy. You know, I'm not out there, I'm not out there hunting for him, really. I'm one of these guys that like, whenever, whenever the time arises for me to dress up,

I'm never ahead of it. Like, I'm never, I really once a year should go and just make sure that I'm covered for a couple occasions, but I'm always like, I'm always just like scrambling to get together some outfit that I've worn too many times. I'm never, I'm never on top of it, Tyler. I don't know. It's kind of, there's been a couple of like, when do the dry cleaners clothes?

Yeah. Like there's a lot of that with me like, oh, did I, I didn't, the last time I wore this blazer was to that wedding in Alabama in June. It's probably pretty gross, right? And then you pull it out and it's like, yeah, no, it smells like death. You should probably get that taken care of. Yeah, yeah. So I don't know.

Yeah, we're talking about Alan. I've never owned any nice dress clothes, I guess was my point. But this game, I'm trying to think of the big takeaway here. It's like, yeah, so throughout this, it kind of felt you were talking about teams that kind of have an established identity offensively. I kind of feel like that dynamic was really visible between these two teams throughout this game. You know, Denver had a run here at the, let's see, at the end of the first quarter where they sort of built a little cushion. And it kind of felt like they just kind of defended, they kept that cushion throughout the game. It was sort of like an eight to 12 point cushion and they protected it.

And there were moments where it seemed like, you know, the wolves were going to knock on the door. It seemed like Ant was going to get some momentum and get stuff going. But it seemed like Denver's core sort of thing that they do. It seemed like Denver was never really thrown off of their rhythm. It seemed throughout this one that like they, Minnesota can never quite get over the hump or make the run to really make Denver sweat in this one. Yeah, it was an interesting game to watch because, even late in the fourth, it's, you know, seven point game, six point game, but it didn't. It's something in the way that both teams were conducting themselves.

And then even you saw multiple wolves writers kind of comment on it. On Twitter I saw that just sort of the vibe in the building kind of felt like, even though the game was close, that it was maybe not decided, but that people weren't feeling good about the potential. You know what I mean? Yeah. It was a weird sounding kind of game just through the television watching it. But yeah, I just, I, the wolves are such a strange thing to me because like on some

level it does feel as simple as like, yeah, man, this Schaubair thing really just mess things up. Oh. You know, but it, but it's also, obviously there's, it's no good cookie. It's no good at all. It like, it just, you don't, you want to be more nuanced than that. And Gobert, you know, the game last night wouldn't Gobert's fault. You know, I mean, he had an efficient 18, I think it was. And, you know, I had a Wool's fan say to me, this made me belly laugh.

I had a wolf fan say to me, the Gobert trade is actually taking some pressure off of David Kahn. I mean, it just, I think one of the reasons that I, think I'm so high on aunt is because I see him doing what he did last night and in game two. And you see him doing it in the context he's doing with the spacing that he's doing it with. I mean, you know, you get in some of these situations when Gobert's on a block and, and, you know, maybe like, you know, cats kind of trying to, you know, flash up to the high post or something like that. And then, you know, Kyle Anderson has, you know, just passed away and he's cutting through.

and you sort of start to feel like it's this like, you know, Harlem Globetrotters kind of, you know, closed circuit three-man weave that you're going to see, but just there's no ball there anymore, and it just devolves. They're so tight together in there. It just doesn't look like how basketball looks anymore sometimes, you know what I mean?

And so it, that aunt is able to still kind of, you know, find some light and, and get things done there is very, very, you know, exciting. But yeah, I just, it, you'd like to see more more verve there from from cat i mean he wasn't he wasn't terrible last night but it just you know malone had that could you see malone's quote before the game yes i did

that was that was a funny one it it was we know we know the one guy they're really going to try to get going somehow some way is carl he's their second best player there you go we've done a good job on him he's missed some open shots but they need to get to get it going to get going to him going. And it, I mean, some nice little gamesmanship there by Malone. It, you know, it feels like he's also right. Yeah. Yeah, it didn't feel like it was just an empty comment. Yeah. Sort of speaking the secret out loud or whatever, but like it, it, it, it was, and you saw Katz quotes after the game and he was really dejected, really down. And, you know, they're, you know, they're in a, they're in a hard, they're in a hard spot right now because, I mean, you know, no, no, no, no, no,

no contract is untradable right like at this point it just see every time someone says that it winds up getting traded but you know you maybe you do have to build around gobert for a little bit and see see i don't know i don't not build around go bear you build around and you you you keep gobert and then you know you see what you can give for cat yeah but yeah i just you'd like to see obviously he's a cat's a perimeter oriented guy and is you know trying to chuck But whenever he, when you can put these smalls on him and, you know, he can't really beat him up in the way that, you know, a 610 plus dude should, it just, especially with the way that the wolf's roster is currently constructed, it just throws everything into fits. Like it just, you know, it, I mean, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, and yes, yes, they've got, I love naz and I love jaden. McDaniels, both of them, and it's a bummer that they're both hurt.

I don't know that, you know, they're providing enough offensively, you know, just, I mean, Naz's a back is another big already, right? And, you know, Jaden, the shot's not the strong point. Like, I don't, even if they were healthy, I don't know if they're, if they're diversifying enough offensively to be able to, you know, mess the nugs up in that way, even if they were around. Yeah, I think you could, if you're a Minnesota fan, And you could kind of look at these playoffs as, okay, we're going to maybe stack this on our history, which you and I were discussing. They might have them and Charlotte might.

Charlotte probably has the bleakest. There was this cluster of teams that entered the NBA from like 87 and 89. And the four or sort of the guys that have been, there's a classism that they've had a hard time breaking through. And it's like Charlotte, Minnesota have had the toughest history. You know, the wolves or, you know, the heat. and then the magic have actually had their little brushes with winning. You know, the heat obviously have won, but the wolves have had a harder time with that over the course of their history. You could look at this as like a Mayor Quimby fact-finding mission.

And I think the facts that we found is that Ann is a dude. You know, there are times when I was telling you, I think Aunt kind of can have that mode where he pushes it, that extra one or two or three plays a little hard. Maybe he takes the, maybe he takes a tough transition three. Like last night he was three for 11, which included one half court he, but he was 13 and 15 from the free throw line, five assists, three steals with 36 points. It feels like he's a guy. You know, going forward, I don't know about like what their plan is, but, you know, Denver's up 3-0 in this. It looks like they're going to move on. They didn't really have an answer for the cutting game.

It seemed like they'd get discombobulated. We didn't get a great game from Mike Conley. It's just kind of looking like Denver really quickly here. Do you think Denver has, what's your temperature on Denver as a contingent? Are you feeling good about them going the distance? I mean, it's, I like Denver a lot. I don't, do I feel good about them going the distance? I don't, it's so funny.

I haven't even thought about like if I believe in Denver really. What do you, do you like them? I do. I kind of wonder when they get up against some of these, these tougher two-way teams. Like let's say if they got to Milwaukee, I don't know. but it's also so wide open. You know,

they might, I'd love to see them play the Kings, like defensively. I think that could be pretty interesting, the strain. It would be so fun. It would be so fun to see me. I would like to see them play a team that they could get into a track meet with.

And it could just sort of be like some of those old Kings Mavs series from like the Van Exel era of the Mavs. Like I kind of want to see. I would love to see some matchups that could sort of fully lean into the, like, offensive explosion that the league is seeing. Like, that's one of the reasons I'm so excited about King's Warriors. Yeah, I think it'd be a blast to see the nugs in kind of a situation like that where somebody really wants to try to run with them and not, you know, the wolves aren't going to do that.

Yeah. All right. So moving on, the last kind of order of business here, that the Raptors have punted Nick Nurse. It kind of feels like it might have been like a mutual parting. Maybe the writing was on the wall. It seemed like throughout this year, the Maasai press conference talking about it,

which was extensive, was interesting. There were several little nuggets in there. Yeah, I mean, the first thing that he said that I think was true is that there was sort of that Raptors brand thing that was missing this season, that excitement, that buy-in, that energy that they always kind of had that elevated them, you know? Because I feel like their collective buy-in was, the thing that made you always heard the word annoying with the raptors you're just like are you guys

trapping off the fucking tip man like like they always kind of had that and this year is like it wasn't quite there you mentioned verve a minute ago verve is it was like their defensive verve was sort of the thing that made them so annoying but it didn't quite there was it felt like it was malaise this year it just didn't the energy wasn't there and then suddenly nurse who is this motivating guy who like everybody's like wow what what a savvy ex is an o's guy He sounded a lot more like what we heard about Nate Bjork, Bjork, who when he went to, you know, took that Pacer's job. It's like people are just like, you know, we're not, we're not down for the messaging because we just, we feel like you're a prick. That's kind of what, like, it's the vibe in Toronto this year, I felt like.

I mean, he, I mean, the, the quote going around and Maasai is the one who revealed it. But, you know, as the last thing that nurse said to him sort of as they're wrapping up their meeting was good luck with those. guys. You know, like that's, you know, that's, that's, that's pretty damning. Obviously, selfishness was thrown around too, which makes you wonder, like, where is that, is that Pascal? Is that aimed at, you know, I'm sure Raptors fans have monitored this closely. Like, is it Freddie? Is it OG? Where's that coming from? I don't know. I, it's, it's, I, it was interesting to, it was, I haven't, I, I don't remember seeing a, I, I, I don't remember seeing a, GM, president of basketball ops type of dude, be so sort of vulnerable and transparent about their

frustrations with their current team? And you'll see transparency like sort of, you know, in the face of success or something like, you know, like we went through a bunch of this, let me tell you about all this stuff that we went through that y'all didn't know about and, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, you know, seeing it in that, in that kind of context was, was different. And you could see on his, I mean, he said, I did not enjoy watching this team play. You know, there's a lot. Like, that's, you know, that's a, they've just, they've got a lot. Like, Maasai's got a lot to figure. I mean, it, you know, I saw someone say on Twitter the other day, that nurse is a good coach. If you give him more than seven guys that he trusts, you know, like if he's only going to play seven guys.

I mean, I think that a lot of those dudes were exhausted. They dealt with a lot of injuries, especially early in the year. I mean, Seacum had, you know, spurs this year where he was amazing, you know. And OG's same story. And it, you know, you would have liked to have seen Scotty take more of a step forward, you know, shout out to all of us. You know, progression is not linear types out there. I get it totally. but it wasn't a wasn't a as wasn't the season that you would have wanted from him but yeah i mean

he's he's he's got to go he's got to go figure out i'm beside talking about i mean i've got it's who is it's it's it's it's it's it's it's grenj junior and pertal are all unrestricted free agents this summer i think ogy and pascal are eligible for extensions i mean they just got it's a lot of decisions that they got to make. And if the, you know, if the lingo says anything, you know, there's going to be shakeup, but then it's felt like there's going to be shakeup for a while there and it never happens. You know, so I don't, I don't know. But, I mean, you're talking about him bringing up selfishness.

I felt like he talked about that kind of specifically in the, like how, as it pertain to going and getting pertal like a guy who is just, well, is just, just setting screens and rolling and rebounding and playing defense and just kind of, it was, it was a very damning. Yeah. I would be interested to hear what those players, if you're trying to come back, you know, to that. Yeah. He said some of this stuff too about players leaving the organization and quote unquote

expressing themselves. So clearly there was just this vibe that was not good that needed a reset. We'll see where he lands. There's some teams throughout the league that I think could probably use. a little bit of like, you know, round. He can kind of, he's a guy that can kind of round the pieces up and field something competitive, but it's a Tibbsian sort of phenomenon where Tibbs has that same quality and power too, where he can, he can inspire buy-in and he can inspire, you know, good

defensive cohesion. And we've seen Nick Nurse prove the tactician sort of driven people have praised him until they were blue in the face. And he'll land somewhere else, I'm sure. But he kind of had that college coach thing where he was like publicly. publicly criticizing guys specifically in a way that was not something you typically hear from NBA coaches. And it'll be interesting to see if the team, you know, the team's out there like the rockets, like maybe even the Blazers, maybe even the Mavs coming up here soon. Or if he waits and

sees how the lottery shakes out and where he's going to go on that front. But we'll see what Nick Nurse chooses to do. Any kind of closing thoughts on the games or Nick Nurse where we get out of here? I mean, I just hope wherever Nick Nurse goes, he takes his hats. I want those NICN. in hats to be, you know, a staple of his wardrobe going forward, no matter where he is, you know, in the league. I hope so, too. I hope we see that. Well, Tyler, it was good to see you.

Check out Tyler's League Pass rankings and stay with us. Stay with us as we continue to cover the rest of the NBA playoffs. We're going to be hitting you with, like, reaction podcasts, I believe every day of the week. Thanks to Jade Whaley for producing this pod. Tyler, it was good to see you, and we'll catch you next time. Good to talk to you, buddy.