The Ringer NBA Show - What’s Next for Philly and Golden State? Plus: Ja Morant Suspended Again | Real Ones

Episode Date: May 15, 2023

Logan and Raja open the show with their reactions to the Celtics dominant game 7 win against the 76ers (02:00). Then, the guys discuss the state of the Golden State Warriors after losing their series with the Lakers (22:00). Later, Logan and Raja breakdown Ja Morant’s second suspension after being caught on video with a gun again (40:00) before predicting the results of the conference finals (55:00). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You may find this hard to believe, but 60 songs that explain the 90s. America's favorite poorly named music podcast is back with 30 more songs and 120 songs total. I'm your host, Rob Harvilla, here to bring you more trude musical analysis, poignant nostalgic reveries, crude personal anecdotes, and rad special guests, all with even less restraint than usual. Join us once more on 60 songs that explain the 90s, starting Wednesday, May 17th, on spot. Spotify. What's popping?

Real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bill there. Hope you guys had a great weekend. Raja. So I was enjoying my Mother's Day weekend, as I saw you were. And the only damper of the day

was the fucking 76ers fumbling the bag in game seven of the Eastern Conference semifinals. First of all, Raja, we'll get to that in the second. Are you good, man? Are you good? How's everything?

I haven't seen you all since Thursday. You good? Oh, I'm well. Yeah, thank you. Great Mother's Day weekend. My eighth grade team just, you know, had another great weekend. So yeah, all vibes are high. And I guess it would depend on who you were pulling for in the Sixers game. Like I was leaning Sixers, obviously. But, but I mean, if you were the Celtics fan, you're pretty excited right now. I was pulling for great basketball. And that didn't happen on Sunday. It was pretty bad. You got a half a good ball. I got a half of good, I guess so, man. No. But anyway, the Celtics. politics blowout the 76ers and historic game seven 112 88 and we'll get to Jason Tatum 51 points and 13 rebounds in a second we got to just let's just let's just get the

stench out of the room first the Sixers fumbled the bag James Hardin game seven nine point seven assists three of 11 field goals five turnovers you had the my the plus minus it was pretty bad I think it was like minus 30 or something it was ridiculous Joe L. Embed, 15 points, 8 rebounds, 5 of 18 from the field. What the hell happened to the 76ers who at times during this series, Roger, look dominant. Look like they were just going to steamroll to the finals and just tell us all about ourselves for doubting them. If we're in the first place, me included. What the hell happened to the 76ers, Roger?

First, let me start by saying this. Maybe this is just recency bias, but I feel. like this playoff run has had way more team to team variants than I've seen in years past where like one night a team will look great just what we thought that they could be you know firing on all cylinders and then the next night just come out and look disinterested in playing I've seen way more of that across the span of the playoffs this year East and West Western conferences where than I've ever seen before so when you ask me what happened with the Sixers, and I went back and watched or rewatched the first half and part of

the third quarter this morning, just to try to dig into what was going on there. And from what I could tell, and it looked, or there were a couple plays early in the game that spoke to what was going on for me. So offensively, they came out three quick times, the Sixers, that is, put it into, put it into Joel Embed, looked like they were, you know, intent on trying to get him iced. But he was not attacking Al Horford. He didn't, he was not attacking him early. It wasn't, you know, it didn't look like he was, had the same level of attack that, let's say a Jason Tatum had for like a better way to describe it, attack. Let's use that word. So then on the defensive end, you know, three possessions in a row roughly where Jason Tatum comes off a pick and roll. Joel Embed is kind of in

a loose drop coverage, completely leaves a huge lane for Jason Tatum to cross back down to the middle of the lane and gets him started. This is like one of the first offensive place for the Celtics. You know, Jason Tatum has 51 and he starts the game off walking right down the lane with a two-hand dunk. All right, that's all on Joel M.B. Just bullshit and not looking like he's ready to play. Then a couple possessions later, he's got Al Horford in the corner. You know, Jason Tatum's at the top of the key. All eyes are kind of locked on on Jason Tatum, but like, you can't be asleep if you're Joel Embed. He completely falls asleep. Jason Tatum motions Al Horford to cut, like, you know, come pick and roll. Like, he couldn't have even

imagine that Joel Embed was this asleep, that Al Horford just goes right to the front of the rim, he throws him the ball, gut shot straight down, dishes it to Big Williams, who then dunks on Embed. That's two on Embedd, right? Two plays that are telling me, this is defensive side of the ball, like he's not ready to play. Then the third one would be another pick and roll, and Jalen Brown gets right down the middle of the lane right in Joel Embed's chest, and he doesn't even jump to try to block the shot. These are three plays in the first. first three minutes of the game, Logan, you're not ready to play, bro. And that's your best play.

You're not ready to play. And that's your best player. You're not, you weren't running. You had a level of disinterest that, that I think could be infectious. Now, he got it rolling a little bit, like once they started getting him the ball late in the second quarter, you know what I mean? But generally speaking, what I think happened was Boston came out like, yo, we need, this is, this is it.

This is a game seven, the right mentality. Philly did not. always tell you this, and I don't mean to make this segment like, you know, all me ran and raving, but stars have to be stars. So I cringed when I heard that man get up at the press conference. You know, the first part of it was cool saying we all got to be better. But he let you knew, he let you know how he really felt at the end of that as he kept talking, which people usually do. If they keep running their mouth, you'll eventually get to how they feel. And what do you? What Joel N. B. tell you after he'd said the politically correct thing, he told you,

hey, we can't do this all by ourselves, me and James Harding. I found that. I found that I found that real reckless. I found that real reckless because had it not been for the 11, you know, from PJ Tucker and Maxie and Tobias Harris in that first half, y'all's ass would have been down 20 in the first half because you and James Harder one doing shit. It's chosen us first them mentality in general and a lot of ways, right? And like, as a role player, you feel that way? Like, fuck you.

I'm right here. I'm right here. I've been fucking. And also not even just from this game, from the whole season, I've been here. I've been here holding you down and you go say some bullshit like that like, oh, us stars is on this. Because what you're saying is, and I know,

Razor you will speak to this more after I finish this point. When you say shit like that, you put yourself on this fucking pedestal and it looks like you're looking down on the rest of the team. And that's whack. And that fucks up locker room chemistry.

And that's just not a president to set when you are the best player and the CEO of the franchise, that's not a good president. It is not a good precedent. And I want to say this again. I thought Joel Embed, and this is why getting up at the mic at that really emotional time is tough for some people, right?

And Joel Embed typically, you know, likes to talk. And if he talked long enough, he's going to do what he did. He said the right stuff up front. He said, we've all got to be better. I've got to be better. We've got to commit to being better. I will be better. All that's great.

And then when you go on to say what you said, then you show us how you really feel. And to that point, Logan, because I get on here a lot, and I know it could sound contradictory to people when I say like role players, you know, and the others are what wins some of these games, right? So you're going to tell me, well, like, no, he's got a point. Like, we are the side dishes to the meal. The role players are the extras that make you leave the restaurant after eating that damn tomahawk and say, man, you know, that was an overall exquisite dining experience. but if the tomahawks suck and the mashed potatoes were good, like you don't feel good about spending that whatever you spend on it, right?

Like the meals, the main course got to be the main course. So the stars are you locked down right now. We are accents. Yeah, man, we're accents to that. Logan, we are accents to that. And I would just break it down even simpler. Go to your favorite, like, source and look at how much everyone gets paid on the fucking Sixers. And then, right, think about what that man is saying.

He is saying after he put in like, what do you have, 15 and 9 or whatever that was in the biggest game of the year, that someone making $2 million, $3 million, $4 million a year is their job to bail him out in that situation. That's reckless, bro. That's reckless. I don't get paid to do that. You get paid to do that. You're the MVP. I'm here to support you and help you.

And I did. I carried in the first half. The people that they played stepped in in the first half and did it. You know who didn't do their job. James Hardin and Joel Embed, I'm sorry. We sound like Philly Sports Talk Radio right now at this moment. Because when you said that, I'm sorry, I felt like I was in fucking South Philly. And I felt like I was just like knee deep in a cheese stick.

Hey, you know that's always going to hit me in a little. That as a role player, career long role player hits me in a source by dog. Don't get up there and try to blame that. Don't do that. I understand this. And I'm looking at the stats right now, bro. Like when you see your two best players combined for 29 field goal attempts and a closeout game, that's not good.

Three of 11 from James Hardin, right? Like, you have more turnovers than made shots in a closeout game. Oh, in a game seven. In a game seven. My question to you, though, Rajah, does this, because we all know Doc Rivers is going to get some heat for this. And I think in this moment, it's on the players. It's on your two best guys, man. Like, there's no way after like all of the momentum swings and all of these things, you already had a win in Boston going into this game seven. And then you wet the bed like this.

This is on the two best players. Because at the end of the day, when it goes to a game seven, all that coaching, all the adjustments, all that shit goes out the window. It's about Will. And they, And the Sixers just didn't have the will. We played seven games. There was no chess match taking place in that game. No. Watch that game again. There was no chess match taking place.

This wasn't a, huh, call time out. Here's what I'm going to do. You do that. Okay, boom, I'm going to come back. There was none of that. This was, yo, one team stars played like stars, and one team stars did not. And if we're being fair, like Doc Rivers, right? If the game plan, and I'm not there in that locker room and I don't have anyone there,

if the game plan was to come out, and not get Joel NBade the ball and ask him to defer to other people on the team. If that's what Doc articulated to his team, then it is on Doc. But see, I don't believe Doc would be saying that to anybody. I don't think that that would be the instruction to the league MVP. And I'll take it a step further because I came on here a couple or a year or so ago

as it related to Quinn Snyder with the jazz who were playing very well, right? And I said, I think he's a great coach. but the message might be getting old, right? You've been to a certain level, you know, and place over and over, and you haven't gotten over that hurdle. And there comes a point where the messaging may get old for some people. That could be the case for Dot.

But I don't think last night or yesterday afternoon was on Doc. That is solely on your two stars. But I don't even know if the messaging got, I solely put it on the stars, Rob, because I don't think the messaging is getting old because, like, earlier in this series, This team was lights out, right? Like, they were playing really good basketball

and looking like they were going to the finals. This looks like, it looks like the star players just didn't get it together in that moment. Let's get to some housekeeping things. James Hardin, who has a player option going into this summer, basically did the thing when you're going into Free Agency and sidestep the question, right? Now, there's been rumors that he is going to, might go to, Houston might test for agency all the way around. What's the best move for him during the summer?

My guess is like, yo, just stay at Philly, bro. If you want to win a title, which is what he said in his presser, the best place to do that at this moment with the infrastructure is Philly. What do you think, Roger, with his upcoming summer and what he should or should not do? As far as James Harding goes, if you're just telling me or asking me if it's between Philly and Houston, then it's Philly. I don't know who else would be suitors in the James Hardin market if he were to be available at the championship level. Philly would be a lot closer.

As far as Philly goes, I don't know necessarily, I mean, I guess there are a few names out there. You know, Kyrie would be a name that you'd put in that. There'd be a couple. But I think, you know, if I'm James Hardin and my ultimate goal is to win a championship and I've, you know, I'm comparing Apples to Apples. Yeah, it's got to be Philly. And, you know, quite frankly, you know, it's a, it's, it's, it was right there. We're right there.

You know, we just, we didn't get it done. Now, I can tell you that I didn't appreciate who, who the blame was laid at the feet of. But at the end of the day, you had a chance in game six to close it out at home, up, on a really good Boston team, and you kind of fumbled the bag. So, so we are right there. are we too hard on like how we and the whole totality of how we cover

James Harden and I'm playing devil's advocate here are we too hard in how we critique his playoffs exits as opposed to other players is it right on par? Like are we are is this what he's what the necessary coverage he's supposed to get whenever he flames out in the way that he does? Well yeah no I think that it's fair

because you know you're talking about one of the better players in the league for a good portion of the time that he wasn't winning in the playoffs. Now, at this point, like, I'm not sitting here bashing James Hardin necessarily. I'm just saying him, you know, the comments that Joel and Bede made, you know, would then have to, when I got to point fingers because fingers are being pointed, I'm going to tell you, it ain't the role players, it's you two. But, you know, I'm not sitting here bashing James Hardin.

and quite frankly, at this point in his career, you know, he's supposed to be being carried to some degree too. You know, like this isn't the Houston team where he's got the ball and he's doing everything. Like, he's playing with an MVP. So, yeah, do you want him to have more consistency through that round of the playoffs? Like there was a huge amount of up and down

in terms of point production and shots. taking it. Yeah, yes, I would like to see more consistency overall. But, you know, I think it's fair. Like, no one's blaming him for that. He just did not play well in that game. Let's go to the Celtics point of view on this one. The Celtics, it's just so interesting, just how, like, at the end of the day, you know, we've said a lot about the Celtics going through in this series and the ups and downs that they face. Man, at the end of the day, man, that was championship level response right there from Jason Tatum on down. That team deserves. to be exactly where they are.

What did you think about Taylor's performance, man? 51 points, 13 boards, lights out, played like the MVP that he is. It showed a lot, man, especially after the last few games where it wasn't, it didn't look like he, it looked like the old, I was texted a couple Celtics fans. It was like, oh, man, here he goes again. Here's, here's, this is what's going to happen. What a response from him going into this playoffs? What did you mean, what did you think of this performance and what it means going,

into the next round against Miami. It's an all-time game seven performance. I mean, he came out locked in. I just, as I talked about, you know, at Joel Embed and not looking like he was ready to play at the beginning of the game, I referenced one of the clips. It was Jason Tatum's first bucket, and he let you know what he was on from the jump,

coming right downhill at you and trying to put somebody in the basket. And, you know, I thought that showed a level of maturity and of understanding, you know, the moment. and that we couldn't come out and just rely on shooting jumpers. And I talk about this a lot. Like when the gravity of that moment is that big, we want to make sure that something's working. And getting to the bucket and getting in that post like he was

and getting tough buckets is a way to ensure that I'm getting to the free throw line and there's going to be some point production. And then as I get hot, well, then I just start cashing out from everywhere. Do you know what I mean? So it was a huge performance, an all-time game seven performance, but I think it showed growth in a player. like an understanding that moment and what his team needed from him. The Celtics have the highest ceiling for me, you know, of the teams left in the playoffs.

The ceiling in terms of when they're playing well, the depth that they have, the amount of people that can hurt you, the versatility that they have defensively, and having two cats on that perimeter that are two-way menaces, they just have been really inconsistent too, Logan. And so, you know, when you say they deserve to win, I mean, in the context of they played better in game seven and clearly look like they wanted it more, yeah, but should have probably lost in Philly in game six. So have been really inconsistent. And as it, as it looks moving forward, you know, I don't mean to slander to heat. The heat are a phenomenal story.

I think the heat are one of the teams in the league that I would be hard pressed to bet against if you made me just because culturally they're sound and they play a certain way and they're tough and they're physical. But it's really hard to navigate through the playoffs losing the pieces that they've lost. And ultimately, I think it catches up to them at some point. That's a lot of lifting for Jimmy Butler, you know, throughout the course of the playoffs and overall talent and depth and everything I think is on the Celtic side. So I think if they're good, they wind up taking care of the heat. I agree with you on that one, Rah, with them in theory supposed to be beating the heat, right? But on the other hand, like, he got mind control over the Celtics, right? Like, not necessarily meaning that the heat are going to win, but they're going to make this hard for them.

They're going to kick the Celtics ass on a game-by-game basis. It's just interesting because it does seem like the Celtics. are finding their stride at just the right time. But it goes to the variance part of what we were talking about earlier in this segment, right, where we don't know what a team is on a day-to-day, specifically with Boston, right, where they lose a couple of questionable games in this series

that they probably should have won. Or, you know, the game four, right, where it goes into overtime and they just miss a defensive play that should have won them the game. They should have won these games. They're games like that where it makes me think, man, like, are they going to go seven games with a heat team that is something to prove that is playing with House Money as an eighth seed?

They're supposed to lose this series. They have Jimmy Butler, who was a three-point shot away from beating them last year. In theory, I want to call it Seldixon 5, but I'm not sure what I think about this series going forward because there's been so much variance. in this postseason. Yeah, I think all that's fair, too. I mean, I think that's fair. And, you know, again, the heat are one of those teams that's hard to bet against

because of just the stability of the heat, you know, and they are a team, and I don't know if numbers support this. I'm just going off an eyeball with this. There seems to be less variance with the heat. And I think that speaks to the DNA and the culture that they established there, right? Like in the style that they play, there's less variance. And so if you have a Celtics team that has, hasn't figured that out, or if one of those two isn't like Jason Tatum or Jalen Brown,

if they're not contributing in the way that you need your stars to contribute in the playoffs, and or if Jimmy starts clicking back into like 40 a night type of, you know, any of those things could change what I'm saying. I just, it's, I'd be hard pressed to remember the last time an eight seed made it all the way to the NBA finals, let alone an eight seed that's suffered two major injuries in the playoffs. Like, while Jimmy is fantastic, it's a lot on his plate to have to do night in and night out to get them to what they need to be offensively. And so I just think at some point that catches up to the heat.

But again, I'm not counting them out. Hard is only going to get you so far, huh, Ra? Talent has to get you to the next frontier, if you will. Hello, Roger. Hello, Lovis. I'm so excited for this pack watch. You know, they say that NBA players and us are so different, so vastly apart. And, I mean, while Roger played in the league 12 years, and by the way, it was on two all-defensive teams. Me and Logan aren't really in the same league as these athletes.

Except for this summer, me, Logan, and Dremont just going to be podcasting because the Warriors got sent to the cribbo. For the first time, since Steve Kerr took hold of the Golden State Warriors, they have been eliminated by a Western Conference team. Wow. Okay, the words don't even sound right coming on in my mouth. Look, before I dive into this packwatch, because some people are going to get packed up.

We got to give Steph as flowers. Okay, he was dragging those dudes all playoffs long. We really saw it in the second round, right? Let's give him some respect. But some of those guys he was dragging. Clay Thompson, come to the stage. My man, do you shoot that shot? Do you practice that shot?

The fadeaway 35 footers? What's going on? I heard they was calling you Game 6% Clay, man. It's tough now. I know Clay's had his injuries in a game. move like he's supposed to, man. But you're not supposed to be just chuck in, my boy. Look, if you, if you listen closely,

you can still hear the bricks out of crypto. It's tough. It was tough. But don't you think I forgot about you, Jordan Poole? My brother in Christ, $140 million? For this? For this?

I cannot believe we sat all year and people were trying to tell me that you were better than Austin Reeves. Oh my gosh. Have some decorum. Have some respect folks. Okay? Not only is he not better than Austin Reeves. I was sitting there watching. I was like, is that Dylan Brooks out there?

I thought he got eliminated last round. I'm just saying it was bad. It was bad. 21 points in game one didn't score 30 points combined the rest of the series. You had five games. You couldn't score 30 points. You were a hundred and forty million dollar man. And you couldn't score 30 points across five games? What what am I looking at here? My dog. It's unbelievable.

Steph can't win with these cats. He can't win with these jokers. Have some... Respect the legend. Fellas? Oh my goodness. Look, just real quick on the Sixers before I get out of here, I can't believe the Subtix agenda's alive.

Game Six, they had it in a bag. Jason Taney was playing like Clam Chowder, Killian Hayes, for 44 minutes, and they couldn't get the job done. And then, of course, big game James derogatory showed up in game seven and here we are the Celtics in the conference finals

the Celtics agenda lives because James Harden and Doc Rivers do what they always do and choke away big games unbelievable can't believe it thank you guys see you next time

I want to talk really quickly before we get to the next segment we said that the landscape is going to look a lot different during this podcast than it was when we left. And one of those big differences is the Lakers have moved on to the Western Conference finals, beating the Warriors in six games in a series that, honestly, man, the Lakers had control

of throughout, right? Like, it wasn't even a question at a certain point who was going to win the series. The Warriors seemed to be doubling down on their roster going into. next season, right? At least their core guys. Drayman was like, I want to be a warrior for life. Clay the same.

Steph's like saying we haven't, we haven't lost with this group. This is an interesting stat. It was like this was the first time they had a playoff loss that wasn't in the finals since 2014, which is an incredible stat.

But do you think that they should run it back with the team that they have currently? No. Yeah. No. No, I mean, they could run it. Look, you can keep those three.

But there's got to be an infusion. There's got to be an infusion of talent. And I've heard some of Draymond's comments about, you know, people in dynasties and talking about their dynasty, haven't never been in dynasties. Like, that could be true. But it's also true that they're getting older. And those games aren't what they were in the height of that dynasty. And so, you know, as things slow down and as the natural, you know, evolution of players and Father Time catches up, you got to infuse that with young talent that can really go.

And if they don't think Kaminga and those dudes are ready and they might have missed on them, I'm not speaking for them, but you didn't play them at all. I mean, so something's going on there. Then they got to figure it out. They need an infusion of some young talented blood. They got a, I got a piece coming on on the ringer today. You guys should check it out. Just talking about like the great divide, what you just speak of, the great divide between young. young and old on that team.

And they didn't do a good job, the warriors of managing that they had this two-tier system and they didn't do a great job of managing it, right? Like, even this season was a big example of that where young guys felt like they weren't getting rewarded for the things that they did good, right? Where you talk about when Andrew Wiggins was out of the lineup, Cominga really stepped up. I think he averaged like 13 points down in that 34-game stretch, right? and seven boards and was really playing. And right when the postseason goes, like, nope, your miniature slash, nah, you're not,

you're not coming back on the court because we're going to cater to Andrew Wiggins, who's a part of that establishment now. And that's just one example. And I think if the warriors, no matter who, what they do this offseason with the young guys, they are going to have to trust other people to do good that isn't a part of the established group if they are going to survive going into these next few years. that's point blank. And I'm sure,

and I understand Jremon, and you have to stick your chest out when you win as much as he has and as Clay has and all these people. But the stats speak for themselves, man. Clay Thompson was terrible during this series. Draymond had played well in some spurts, right? But overall, those three guys,

they showed their age throughout this postseason. And a prime example is that Sacramento King series. The prime warriors with those guys would have beat that Kings team in five games and then would have gotten rested up and then would have put a better showing against the Lakers. But you can clearly see that this team is getting older and I get betting on the on the established group, but you've got to build around them. And I just, I don't know if they're going to do that. I don't know if they're going to do that successfully. Well, that will determine, you know, what, what's left there in terms of window.

And, you know, that's interesting that you said that because I hadn't, you know, I'm not privy to some of that information about those young players feeling that way. And, you know, if in fact Golden State feels like they're capable and they just made the decision not to play them because they were going to cater to older players, like, that's crazy. Like, you could still, you could still cater to Andrew Wiggins and get something out of Jonathan Kaminga. Like, we, we, it's more that they just don't trust these young guys, even if the guys play

even if they play well enough in stretches to help the regular season, they just ultimately, for whatever reason, just don't trust them to do that in the playoffs. But so that's a different conversation, though, right? That's what I was alluding to. Like, if that's the way you feel about them, we're like, hey, man, this isn't truly like, yo, I'm just catering and we believe in you, but it ain't your time yet.

This is genuinely like, yo, man, we don't think that you can handle this. That speaks to them not being what you thought they were going to be. or at least at minimum, they ain't there yet. And the clock is ticking because, look, I retired at, I think, 35 years old. And I don't think I had nearly the miles on me that Steph Clay and Draymond have. And I was a different player at that point. And I didn't have to do half the shit that they have to do. So, you know, I know that you don't feel the same.

I know that those back-to-back start creeping up on you in a way that they didn't six years ago. Those long runs into the playoffs start getting heavy on your back. And you have to have young, fresh, capable legs to help extend that window. Steph can still be great. Clay and Raymond can still be great. But now you're scaling back on how much you need them to be great because you've got stuff around them that can supplement. You know, look at LeBron and AD. Like if AD is not there, LeBron can have 30, that team's going to lose.

you need something there to help extend his window and LeBron's still great. But, you know, like now I got something else that is in a lot of instances this year more integral to us winning. That's AD. They got to figure, the Warriors have a lot of question marks. We're going to get to the Lakers in a second,

but the Warriors got a lot of question marks. The biggest one is what they're going to do with Jordan Poole. Are they going to keep him on the roster next season? are they not? It's not a foregone conclusion that he's going to be on the team next year. And that's tough. I don't even know if there's a, I don't even, I don't even know if there's president for a team signing someone to an extension and then trading him before that extension

kicks in. You know, that's just, that's insane. And that speaks, but I think that speaks to a lot of just the dysfunction that went on during this season, right, where you have this divide. And a lot of that has to do with the, the unprecedented thing. that happened in the beginning of the season, that punch had so many ramifications, bro. So many ramifications.

So many ramifications. You know this better than I do, and I was just going to ask you, I mean, I'm speculating, and I don't, you know, I'm not even speculating. Let me just tell you what typically, typically when you see someone just fall off like that,

there's something else going on. Yeah. There's something else going on that we're just not privy to. I mean, it's, when you just completely, change who you are as a player. I'm not even talking about the makes or misses. I mean, he looked like a shell of himself,

and that happened relatively overnight. You know, so it's, I just wonder if there's something else going on there. And you just talked about the punch, and I don't know that it's that, but like there seems to have been something else going on there. That, that rarely happens. I think what happened is,

I mean, it all goes back to the punch. Like, let's, but I think Jordan is a guy that actively avoids that spotlight. And the spotlight got so bright on him this season because of that punch, right? Like, let's just think about it. We go on the internet since September, everybody's been talking about this from a day-to-day basis. And you also look at it as like Jordan doesn't speak to the media that much.

And what has Draymond been doing all season? He's been controlling his narrative, right? He's been saying, oh, I was remorseful. I was doing all these things, all these things. Was that corroborated necessarily by Jordan Poole? No, right? Like, he was going through a lot of that and feeling isolated a lot of times in that locker room, right?

It had nothing to do with basketball, more of the fact that, you know, you guys say last year, the Warriors were saying, you know, this guy is the future. This dude, Jordan Poole is the future. Ooh, all of that. And then you get punched in the face and you see the guy that punched you in the face, not only be a pillar of the team,

but also talking about how. he punched you in the face. And then everything that goes from there. And now it goes from a point of you being the victim, which he was and is in that preseason to now, Draymond talking about like, oh, man, we're going to ride out to the sunset. And there's no place for pool in that scenario.

And that's tough. Do you remember what I said when they handled it the way they handled it? Do you remember it was a long time ago? You remember what I said about that? Something about it was going to be terrible for the franchise going forward. And you handled that so wrong. All you had to do was suspend Dremont for a week or two and just say, hey, we got your back. It would have had no ramifications on the season.

They would have been in a better place now. Absolutely. It would have none. And guess what? Draymond, having been the perpetrator of stupid shit like that, I know that I'm going to get suspended. There's going to be some ramifications. And whether I like them or not, I have to man up and take that. And we'll just keep it moving.

But that's my penance. I know I fucked up. I got a, okay, I got it. There would have been no problems there. You just had to do it. And you didn't do it. The Warriors front office, and I don't really criticize them that much, but they fumbled a bag on this one. Right.

Like they wanted this. There could have been a world where this worked out, right? Where you had to, you know, you're developing these guys like a comminga who shows flashes, Jordan Poole who clearly shows flashes, Moses, Moses, Moody who shows flashes, right? Not only did they not ultimately trust, I would say, comminga and pool. They messed up any chance that they would have, specifically pool. They messed up any chance that they could to actually realize that by not holding the guys up top accountable.

Because think about it. You see Jemann do what he did in the preseason and not even get a slap on the wrist. You're like, well, there's no accountability here. Like, I could do whatever the fuck I want to do. Like, if he's clearly doing it, who cares, right? They catering to Draymond is what the Warriors have done since the beginning of this run. It's done great things, Goddard four championships, but it's also, it lost them Kevin Durant. And it lost them any chance of trying to have this two-tier system that they have.

Like, this is just what it is. And they are going to feel the effects of that for the next year's. to come. That's going to be the difference between the next championships that they want to win and not winning them at all. So you know what I heard in all of that? Because I think all of that's nail on the head. And what I heard in all of that again is an inability to kind of mesh the old and the new, right? Like because all of that could be true. And you might have needed to do all of that for Draymond and for your window at the time. But as the Draymonds and the Steffs and the Clay's age and there are new people coming in that we think, at least by our actions and pay,

and we think that he could be a part of riding us off into this next chapter, well, then the way that you hold people accountable and treat people for indiscretions, that changes too. That has to change too because the balance of power is changing on your roster. So you can't just treat it like, hey, these new guys that we're extending out and we think are the next iteration of who we are, hey, you get no perks and no benefits.

We're going to let it all still lie with the old vets. it's just a mismanagement of the of the bridge between old and new is what I hear when you say that. I think and there's been rumblings like in the Bay Area that the that the Warriors might look to trade Jordan Poole this summer. I think honestly it'll be good for both sides. All sides involved, they just cut bait and they just do it. Like it'll be good for Jordan's career because he'll be able to just like it's think about it. next season, if he comes back after all the baggage of last season and all of the enabling or all of the things that happened that we just described, I don't see his game getting better

from that. You know what I'm saying? Like, you go back into, I mean, maybe there's a break that happens, but like, you're going to have to go see these people. And they're clearly, the front office has clearly picked sides. That's not good for you. Might as well just get a fresh start and somewhere else and figure it out. But it's just really disappointing to see. see what this has come because people forget.

And it goes back to your point of like Jordan Poole or like people falling off a cliff in the way that he has being the product of something else. People forget. There's who started for over Steph Curry last first round of the playoffs against the Nuggets and balled out was an integral part of their championship run. And the first thing you do when you come back as punch him in the face, right? Like, what? What?

Yeah, it's crazy. All right. Let's take a quick break. And we're going to talk more about accountability. All right, and we're back. I didn't want to talk about this, Roger. And I know you didn't want to talk about this. But we're going to have to talk about it.

John Morant. Again? Again, Roger? Let's paint the picture really quickly. Hold on. Let me paint the picture real quickly. We'll get to it. The face of a franchise was in a car on Instagram live.

I know I'm getting old right now because, dog, the young generation be snitching on themselves. They love to just like put a camera on themselves doing like stupid shit. But anyway, in the latest iteration of that happening, Jai was in a car, one of his partners. His partners was on IG Live. put the camera towards Jai and Jaya flashes another gun on social media and now

he has been suspended for all team-related activities Adrian Wilderanowski says that the league expects the people around the league expects a lengthy suspension to start next season Roger like you know the blame

game is is going towards everyone in this in this instance. But I think there's a lot of people that that deserve blame. Jha first and foremost, but also just the system around Jha. The culture of that from the Memphis Grizzlies on down to the league deserves every bit of blame. Every time Jha did something last year, whether it was what Sam Amick and the athletes, reported as lasers on an opposing team where the Pacers, brass, were figuring for their life, or the first gun incident in the strip club, every step foot away, the Grizzlies have been like, nah, you know, it's all good. We're handling it internally. And then when it gets to a league

perspective, they send them to counseling for a week and then give a job a very, very friendly type interview with a national partner where he doesn't really have to hold himself accountable at all. And then they let him play after eight games. And then this happens again. Roger, what is the course of action to go forward on this? Like, I just don't know, right? Like, what the, I don't even know what the hell you do from here, bro. I don't know. And I feel you on, on, I kind of feel you where you're saying the blame goes around. But I can't do that. Man, that. And that. blame, that blame goes one direction, straight down, straight at it. Like, that, that's on you. Boy, you can't get right. I mean, you might, you know, you might be young, Logan, but you

remember the movie and they said, you know, what's wrong with him? They're like, boss, he just can't get right. Would that be a movie called life? Called life, yeah. And so, first, let me start by saying it was really weird, right? And I was with my basketball team. It was Mother's Day. We had a break in between games. And, and, and, And, you know, one of the kids was on their phone, and I was driving in the car. I was driving in the car. Sorry, we hadn't gotten to brunch yet. But one of them was on their phone and said something that I just kind of heard, you know,

because they weren't really saying it to me. That I was just in disbelief. The last time that happened to me eerily, really eerily, was January 26, 2020. I was with my basketball team. The kids were in the back. And one of them had referenced something that, and I overheard it. And I was like, what? And I couldn't believe it. It was the Kobe tragedy. And while they're not the same way, I felt the same way hearing that from the back of the car yesterday. And weirdly the same situation, a different team. But I was like, what the, no way. That's not possible. There's no way that man was there. That is no sir. So I immediately got where I was going and had to look it up. And when I tell you, no pun intended, I was blown away. I was blown away. I was flabbergasted. There is no way in hell that you are on another IG live brandishing a weapon.

Like, bro, what is wrong with you? I really sincerely mean this. What is wrong with you? Why do you feel it necessary to be waving guns in the air at basic level? Like, what the fuck are you doing? You know what I'm saying, Logan? I don't even, I'm not even on no, you know, is he a gang? Why would you feel it necessary to be waving a gun?

How many gangsters you know walk around waving a gun as they're listening to music, Logan? Do you know any to do that? No, none of them. No. What are you doing? I don't get it, man. I just, I have no words. It's because at the end of the day, you are right.

Now, what I said in the beginning of this segment is true. It's all true. A lot of people have been enabling him a league. an NBA has been enabling him. Let's not get it messed up. That's why talent is so dangerous. You know, when talent, when talent isn't good people, an example setting, that's why people say the best thing you can ever get is your star being like the hardest worker and the best

person. It's easy. But when talent isn't wired like that, when talent is I can't get right, it's dangerous. Yeah. Because you compromise everything. He's compromised. compromising the, this is the thing, he's compromising the well-being of his family. He's compromising the well-being of this team.

He's compromising the, just everything that he has worked hard for for this. For what, bro? To be in a car on IG Live, my dog? Like, this ain't no music video. This is real fucking life, bro. Like, that's what I keep seeing with this. It's just, it's so, it's so disappointed on a lot of levels. and I don't know if he's going to look back on this in 10 years.

I don't even know what this year is going to look like for John Morant, right? Like, I don't know. Maybe he... You are a dumb ass. Let me say it. My cousin died fucking around playing with a gun. Shot himself in the head. You are a dumb ass waving weapons around like it's cool.

It is not cool, bro. What is the course of action after this, Raja? Like, what do you do? Let's talk about it from the front office point of view and all of these things, right? like this is your this isn't just somebody that you can just cut right like this is a this is a face of your franchise and by extension yo league and i just had a loss for words roger what do you do from this like i don't even know i don't even know what the course of action of this is for right like what suspension is going to is going to help like because it's just so funny

because i go back to the interview from from espn um a few months ago and it was just it was such a joke where you guys you ask him what he did and he's like I did I spent a week in this counseling I did breathing exercises and I worked on these things and now I'm back into the game like and and now you're gonna just we're gonna just just do this same charade over again right we're gonna do this press release over again what the fuck are we gonna do after this dude like what suspension is going to help what you have been already been doing that's it's I don't think shit's gonna happen there's nothing that's going to change from this you're so right I'm I'm on a of levels and I forgive me for getting emotional. I really did. My first cousin, you know,

passed from playing with a gun. So I know it's all right, but I'm very, I'm very sensitive to that, right? Because, you know, it's not a toy and it speaks to, it speaks to, you know, weirdly enough, ironically enough, it speaks to your lack of of thuggedness that you would think that that's a damn toy. Like, do you know what I'm saying? Like, that's, that's, but, you know, on a broader topic about our young black men and young athletes and stuff like that. It's just a terrible look and a terrible example. You know what I mean? And a terrible standard to set, like, even on that level. So as I continue to like, I watched him this morning and you're absolutely right, there was no level of contrition in that damn, that kangaroo court of a damn

interview that he was up there. You know, there was no contrition in that. You could hear even in his remarks about some of the things that have transpired in Memphis that have played out over the course of the last few years. Like he's almost rationalizing like I'm, I'm about my family. Anytime a family, like, bro, everybody is about their family. They don't run up in places, you know, when there's a disagreement all the time, like threatening people. Like, that's not, that's not always the course of action that needs to be taken. Now, maybe it does occasionally, but it seems like that's the answer to everything. And then it makes me think of, because I got on here and maybe I'm a little salty at myself

or lightweight trying to defend him, you know, and calling it just immaturity when there's a red dot pointed at a bus in a tunnel in an NBA arena. Now, after all that's transpired since then, like, I can't give you the benefit of doubt anymore. I can't give you the benefit of doubt anymore. I am led to believe that you knuckleheads were really down there. like thinking that it was cool to be threatening them in some way,

shape, or form with whether it be a weapon or making them feel like you had a weapon pointing at them in either case, so irresponsible and so immature. And I think to answer your question in a very long way, like immaturity, there's not a lot you can do for it. You have to take something away from him in a way that really makes him reflect. Eight games ain't it. Now, that's if you want to curb it. If you're telling me as a league, hey, we don't give a shit.

He's too valuable to us as a face of the league and so on and so forth. That's not my business. I can disagree with you. But let him continue to do what he does. But if you really want to curb it and it's really a bad look for your league, and if the league starts losing money, because really that's where it all lies, right, Logan, the league and the team's bottom line starts getting affected by it, then they're incentivized to hold his ass accountable and try to change behavior.

And if you want to do that, it's got to be something that speaks. games ain't it. Eight games ain't it. And so I'm not lobbying for it. I'm simply saying that what he's what he's out here doing again speaks to this level of overall immaturity. And from my experience, like people who aren't understanding of what they've done and don't have a high level of contrition about it, like you're not changing them right now. He ain't ready to be changed. He don't see nothing wrong with it. He's putting on for y'all so y'all will just leave him to fuck alone. Yep.

He's not tripping. He didn't learn nothing from that first. He didn't learn anything from that first instance, right? It's funny because you brought up the bread part of it, and it all comes down to the bread. Because, like, the Memphis Grizzlies don't care about, John. The league doesn't care about John. Why did the Memphis Grizzies bring John back when they did? Let's keep it a buck.

Because they were in the midst of a Western Conference playoff push, and they needed a best player. why did why did the league bring him back and do the kangaroo court interview because they they see him as they face to the league and they wanted to get him back on the floor that's bottom line of what it happened and so at the end of the day it is on jod to get jaw right because ain't nobody else going to try to get him right ain't nobody else going to put him in anything else and it's just honestly man the more we talk about it it's just sad bro all this shit is just sad dog it's it's not yeah yeah i'm sorry because maybe i and it sounds like I'm angry at J. And I guess to some degree I am, but it's more disappointment. Yep. Do you know what I mean? It's more disappointment for someone that's got all of this at his fingertips

and just the world kind of like waiting for him and you just won't get right. And there is someone who can do something about that. There are multiple people that can do something about that. And I've spoken about them before. You know who I'm talking about? You're talking about it? There are people there that need to tighten his. him up. They need to tighten him up. I know he's the breadwinner. I have to imagine that

dynamic is hard. I have not lived through that. Hopefully I'm blessed enough one day where my kids become breadwinners and, you know, I can then maybe have a better perspective on it. But, but I became the breadwinner in my family at one point. And my dad stayed being my advisor, my, my, you know, person that kept me on a straight and narrow, didn't always tell me, me exactly what I wanted to hear, didn't support everything I did. And that was a great, that was a great tool for me. And it didn't always work. I'm not telling you that I always listened to everything he said. But damn it, without it, who knows what I would have done? It's just wild because when I see the people that are around him and I just see people that are

just along for the ride, right? His homies that sitcore side is his pops. I don't see anyone that's like, yo, man, I come over here, dog. It's always like, no, we in the club, which are we pop, we hear which even like it even, this is how even shows like the fact that people don't necessarily care about him, bro. The dude that was in the car with him videotaping him, man, that's supposed to be your homie holding you down. Listen, I read that different though. Did you see how quickly he snatched that video back?

Like they were in there vibing. And even that man, if you asked him and he would give you a, he would be like, bro, there was no part of me that thought that jackass. was going to hold up a gun. Yeah. Because he saw it in his little live and took it down immediately because he even couldn't believe that that man was sitting over there holding a weapon again.

Like, man, what are you doing? Yeah. Assist. Because he also runs around, like, throwing gang signs and stuff like that, right? Yeah. You know what he needs? He needs an internship with a gang. Put his ass out there.

Let him get an internship with one of these gangs out here. Anybody looking for an intern, holl at him. You know what? And not like John Moran. This is an anonymous internship, bro. Nobody knows who he is. And let him get some of that work in and see if he really, if that's really for him. But here's a thing, bro.

This is not, and this is my real, this is my problem with that, right? Not even with what you just said, but my problem with, like, trying to be a part of these types of things, man, it disrespects the people, the lifestyle that you're perpetuating with all these guns and stuff. People don't want to do that. They really don't want to do that. They are doing this in a lot of cases. You go ask a lot of people that are in those circumstances. They're doing it for their survival.

You're playing cosplay as a millionaire athlete trying to be a part of something that like you don't know about. Exactly. You got all that stuff. Why are you trying to be over there? They don't want to be into that. They're doing that for their survival, bro. And you're over here trying to like play all these roles and everything.

Man, I don't know how much to say this, man. It just kisses me off every month's time. I'll take a van. Let's make some for you. predictions before we get out of here, man, because that is just so, every time I think about John Morant and what he's been doing, it is so disappointing. Disappointing. It is disappointing, man.

But anyway, let's go to the, let's go to the West, let's get Western Conference predictions out here, man. Let's go. Lakers, Nuckets. Best offense, best offense in the playoffs. Best defense in the playoffs so far. This is an interest in one, right? I think I have to lean towards Lakers.

Number one, I tell you I don't bet against LeBron. And while I have lost a couple times, I think overall I'm a winner in not betting against LeBron. AD is playing very well. Joker is playing phenomenal. I trust AD and LeBron consistently more than I trust Yokic and Jamal Murray, if that makes sense. Jamal's been great, but I think I trust AD and LeBron, even though they've been kind of off and on too. And then I always believe defense wins championships. I know that's kind of not the way people see the game right now,

but if you're making me pick which one is more sustainable, I think it's going to be the defensive chopper of the Lakers. So in an evenly matched kind of series, one that I'm split in hairs on, I'm going to take the Lakers. I'm taking the Lakers too. I mean, it goes back to our argument of who has the best players in the series, and that's A.D. and LeBron with the Lakers.

And I take them 10 times out of 10 over the Nuggets roster. I'm going Lakers. I'm going to go Lakers in six. How about that? Yeah, I'm not mad at you. I'm not mad. I'm not mad. Let's take it to the Eastern Conference Celtics Heat.

I'm liable to pick the Celtics in theory in five or six. In practice, it might be about seven just because of what we described in the beginning. But I'm going to go with the Celtics. What you got, right? I talked about earlier in the pod. Magical story for the heat. Kudos to everything that they stand for. but I think eventually, you know, just the lack of overall bullets in the chamber

catches up to you. I think the Celtics are going to beat them in six. Well, there you have it, man. It's going to be a fun, fun, fun. Can't wait to see you guys and watch this shit with y'all, man. Anyways, that's been our Monday edition of real ones, a lot of technical difficulties. I'm so sorry, Kerm, we love you, pal. Hold it down, bud.

We'll see you guys on Thursday. we'll talk to you guys soon tap in eye all the shits bye