The Ringer NBA Show - What’s Next for the Warriors? Plus, Players and Politics. | Real Ones

Episode Date: January 21, 2025

Logan and Howard Beck start the pod off with a deep dive on the Warriors following their MLK Day 125-85 blowout loss to the Celtics (2:55). Howard then announces his All-Star ballot and gives his take on why he chose those players for the game (35:51). Logan is then joined by Bomani to discuss the current political climate and how the NBA and the players are handling the transition to Trump's presidency (1:08:28). Get your tickets to the live show at Punch Line San Francisco on February 15 here: https://www.universe.com/events/the-ringer-nba-show-real-ones-live-tickets-9NVPKF Hosts: Logan Murdock and Howard Beck Guest: Bomani Jones Producer: Clifford Augustin Additional Production Support: Ben Cruz Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's popping, everybody? Logan Murdoch here from Real On The Ringer NBA show, and I want to invite you to pull up and kick it with Roger Bell, Howard Beck, and myself during All-Star weekend for our live podcast. We're going to be at the Stork Punchline Comedy Club in San Francisco on Saturday, February 15th at 2 p.m. pre-gaming all the all-star festivities, and you never know who might stop by. Get your tickets now by heading over to ringer.com backslash events. That's ringer.com backslash events. to see you there. What's popping?

Real ones. Logan Murdoch here. Howard, mother effing Beck over there. Raja is somewhere. He's not here, though. So we're going to talk a little Warriors All-Star, get some curmudgeon takes out of Howard, who was

definitely built up a bit of a reputation on this podcast for having such takes. How do you feel about that, Howard? You're like, it used to be Raja was the resident curmudgeon, and now, like, I think you've just taken the mantle

and just ran. with it. This is your, this is your bag right now. How do you feel? This, I feel like this is blatant ageism. Raja was considered the curmudgeon because he was the oldest person on the pod. And now I'm the oldest person on the pod by, by some measure. I feel like this is, this is just blatant ageism by, by you and certain part of our audience of listeners who are, who are cranky about me being cranky, I guess. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know those are crumudgeonly takes.

Like, like, I don't know. I was obviously out the loop for a long time. but like Ever's for the last two weeks, all I've been getting is like, and we'll talk more about this, obviously during the All-Star segment of this podcast, but like all I've been hearing is Rosh's Lamello, not Razz, excuse me,

Howard's Lamello takes are crazy. Howers Lamello takes this or like Howard, geez, like, maybe it is ageism from like our real ones crowd as a whole. Well, there's definitely like a generation gap, I think, on like Lamello in general. I think the younger you are, the more likely you are to really love Lamello

and overlook all of his flaws. and make him the leading vote getter among the Eastern Conference Guards. But to be clear, until last week, when we started talking about All-Star starters and voting and all that, I don't think I'd ever mention Lavello Ball's name on this podcast. So it's not like I've had some like ongoing Lamello slander agenda. It was like, the dude is inexplicably number one. I guess it's explicable, but it's explainable. It was, it was a thing.

It was a thing. A thing that may or may not be rectified when the media. and players do their part on the voting. We'll see. We'll see. All right, let's talk about the Warriors, man. I was at the game, and I just want to say, I was at the game yesterday against Boston.

And I've been going to the last few Warriors home games, and it is about as dismal as it has ever been, or not ever been, because, I mean, me and you have both seen some dismal, like, warriors seasons. Decades worth. decades worth the cohan warriors weren't great you know there was some level of optimism here just for the simple fact they got 30 on the team but i mean it was pretty dark yesterday like it was like like a very bad a u team playing against a professional basketball team and the warriors were

not a professional basketball team um you haven't been in chase in a while and i i don't know and i'm sure you're going to be there for all star but like you ain't seen it like this Howard it's it's it's pretty it's pretty dark buddy it's been a while since i've been there for a regular season or even playoff game yeah um is it just dead are they just in stunned disbelief like what's the are they just resigned to like okay maybe this thing is just over like what's the vibe uh the fans that fans i think in section 128 were booing profusely throughout the whole second and a half. Like, it was pretty bad.

Like, it got, and then they started leaving around the fourth quarter. I think the overall vibe is, it's a dejected fan base right now. Um, I think that there is, there is like a very fake optimism out of the Warriors front office and the Warriors players, if you hear their quotes, right, where they're saying, hey, there's some comparison to 2020. And by the way, this is not 2022 by any stretch of the imagination. If you were just even to go on vibes alone, this is like, I don't know, man. This must be like what Cliff feels like with the sixes.

I'm sorry to give you a straight, bro, but this must be like, it's not, it's not great. And then when you see it, it's just like you're going to awake every time you see them play. And then the injuries haven't made it much better, right? And this was a fine team. Like, I think their ceiling, even before the season was like a six seed. and I think they're holding, they're the 21st ranked offense with Steph Curry on the team.

That's just wrong. It's insane. And so I just, they have a lot to figure out, but a lot of the moves, it feels like they should have made, they should be making, should have happened years ago.

And this team is just, the worst you can be in the middle is in this league, and they're perpetually in the middle, but they're having, like, Steph Curry on the team is about to turn 37. So it's just kind of all bad.

Can I just like, I don't want to get Pollyannish about this, and I don't want to be delusional about this. But I just want to note, at least where it regards the last few weeks, right? No Cuminga, who's one of their lone bright spots among their young players. Obviously, Pajemski, you know, has had a disappointing second season and I think he's been banged up. Dremont is out right now. Like, to whatever extent that the Warriors can and maybe show. be better than this, it's at least due in part to having like some really key players out,

right? Steph is not the step of old, but Steph is still absolutely an impact player. I've got some stats I'll refer to in a second here, but step is still a very impactful player, um, despite his age. And Dramond is too, but he's not playing right now. And, and those are your backbone. So if Dremon's out and then your best young player, Kuminga is out, I know we started the season talking about a lot of all their depth. And I wrote a whole piece about how they had such incredible depth that Kerr couldn't even decide which players to play. So he's playing 12, 13 guys a night. It was nice while it lasted. I wasn't really that optimistic. It was going to last forever because it's hard for guys to play short minutes and a deep rotation all the time. But I did think that

they had enough good players, Logan, that they'd be able to withstand some dips here and there or injuries here and there. And I just think what we're seeing is that, that they absolutely still, in your whatever we are of this, they're still absolutely completely dependent on Steph being offensively elite, Draymond being defensively elite and their best playmaker in a lot of ways. And that if there's at least even a little bit of slippage from either of them or both of them, there's just nothing to lean on anymore. And you said it, 2022, let's not forget.

Clay was not only still there, but playing at a good enough level, especially in the playoffs, that he could make an impact most nights. Jordan Poole was having the season of his life. And Andrew Wiggins was having the season of his life. Well, Jordan Poole's gone and it's questionable whether he was ever going to be able to sustain that anyway. Clay is gone and was not going to be able to sustain it because of age and injury. And Wiggins, for whatever reasons, has never been able to replicate what he did that season.

and I said this a year ago at this time. If Wiggins just could play like he did in their last championship run consistently, everything looks different. And obviously, look, there's a bunch of other everything looks different qualifications or qualifiers too if they drafted somebody instead of James Weissman, right? If they'd, you know, somebody else, if they had taken Wagner instead of, I think, Cumminger, like, we could go on and on with draft. If Jarmine didn't punch his teammate in the face.

If Jarmine didn't punch Jordan Poole. Like, we could go on and on with that stuff. But there have been some personnel misfires. There's been all kinds of stuff. But I still say, I'm not saying that this makes them a contender. But if they just were healthy right now, things wouldn't be quite as bleak. That's not a glass half full take. That's a glass like a quarter full take.

I think we're saying the classic, the classic, we're saying different things that basically say the same thing. Like if they had all of their, like a buddy healed who like, I don't know who trusts Buddy Heald to, play a full season at the level he was playing at for the first couple of weeks, right, for that consistency. You were trusting Buddy Hill to be that consistent in a way he's never been. You were trusting Kaminga, who's been, had spurts, but also another guy that has struggled with consistency. And then you're also trusting Pizimski, who is having a very big sophomore slump in a major way.

And then you're trusting Draymond Green, who I think, believe is 34 years old. And if Draymond Green is your second best player on a team. I don't know if you're going that far, right? And no disrespect, but even at his best, he was about the third or fourth best guy on a given team with the Warriors, right? So you bring all that together. And then we're not even talking about the chemistry issues that have happened or the front office missteps that have happened,

whether you talk about. Mike Dunleavey not necessarily getting the autonomy, or knowing what it's like to not get the autonomy when you're the Warriors GM, when you have an owner like Joe Lake of, who's constantly meddling on every single deal, who is pushing you to sign comminga to a big deal when the coaches keep telling you, hey, I don't think he's that,

I don't know if he's that consistent. I don't know if he's that consistent. Or just a myriad of things, right? Or you have Steph, who is a guy that probably, if he had a little bit more, if he wasn't as passive in his conversations to the front office, maybe like there'd be more sense of urgency to get things done. But I mean, you're seeing quotes out there where they're talking about the future. You know, we got to also plan for the

future while planning it. There's no future after step. You shouldn't think about like that with a guy like Steph, right? Like he's one of the top 10 players and one of the ever, arguably, and also the one of the faces of his generation, bro. Like you're not going to find somebody like that. So you put all that together. Even if this team was good, like it wouldn't, they would still be somewhat in the middle. And in a lot of ways, it feels like wasting another, because of their lack of aggression, wasting another year of Steff's twilight at this point, effective twilight. Yeah. I mean, you know where I am on this particular issue. Like, I have been very consistent about this where it regards Steph, where it regards LeBron. Anybody, if you've got a star of that

caliber, not just one of the best of his era, but one of the best of all time. But even if it was just one of the best of his era, as long as that star is still performing at an elite level, top 10, top 15, even top 20, you owe it to them and to basketball history, to posterity, to the fans, to everybody, you owe it to them to be all in at all times. And so I never really liked the two timeline thing. I was always kind of skeptical of that. I admired the audacity of it and the ambition of it to say we can be great in the present and still be reloading and investing in the future. Like, great.

Like try to thread that needle. Cool. But it's rarely been done. It's not easy. It probably won't work. It didn't work. And if Stefan Dremont retire tomorrow, whatever the ceiling of Cumminga, Pajemski, Moody is, that's sorry, it's just, you're still coming down a really far away. So it was never a great idea,

the two timeline plan. And I think by sticking to it as long as they did, by not trading or being even willing to trade the picks that eventually became Cummengun Moody or Weissman, by taking that approach, they cut off their ability to make the last years of Steph more meaningful. Yes, they won a title anyway. Like, they got away with it for one year. Everything broke right, not diminishing, not asterisking, just saying things broke right. They went a championship in 2022. For the moment, it looks like you can get away with being great in the present and plan for the future at the same time.

But they would have been better off in getting other veterans who could continue to extend this era instead of clinging to those picks and then the players who they took with those picks. And now, Logan, we're at this really interesting moment where, Steph's that much closer to the end. He's turning 37 in March. 37. Still playing like an All-Star. But he's going to be 37 in March. We don't know when the last day or the last season is of him still being at this level.

And Steph himself is now saying, I found this absolutely fascinating. I mean, these quotes were like a week ago, but it came, I think, after the last time you and I potted together. Absolutely fascinating that Steph is saying that the, the, the, front office should now exercise caution and restraint when it regards trades. They did go all out, to be clear, they did go all out last summer to try to get Lowry Mark and then they couldn't make a deal. They did go all out to try to get Paul George that couldn't make a deal. So they were trying. But now Steph is saying this, quote, desperate trades or desperate moves that deplete the future, there is a responsibility on keeping the franchise in a good space, parentheses, long term,

and a good spot when it comes to where we leave this thing when we're done. Doesn't mean that you're not trying to get better. Doesn't mean that you're not active in any type of search, if you have an opportunity where trade makes sense or in the summer where free agency makes sense, you want to continue to get better. But it doesn't mean you're desperate and flinging assets all around just because you want to do something. And then Kerrways in, I think within a day or maybe the same night or day or two after that. And he's saying you have to mind what's coming ahead in the future. I probably won't be around. But I would tell you, if this organization gave away the next six or seven drafts for a wild swing, that would be the most irresponsible thing

that they could do. And then Draymond tells our buddy of any goodwill at Yahoo, basically the same. Quote, the beautiful part about being in the space that we're in is Steve Kerr, Steph Curry, and myself all disagree with mortgaging off the future of this organization and saying that we're going for it right now. Logan's just fascinating. I'm going to be real with you wrote. You can read the quotes. But look at these people when they're saying the quotes. It looks like they're reading hostage letters. I don't believe them when they say that. I don't. Really? I don't.

I mean, I believe that that's the company line. I also believe the reality of it is there's no one to trade for other than Janus, and he's not going anywhere. So it's cool. It's convenient to say that right now. And also another thing while you were talking, we can't underestimate this punch. Like, honestly, the punch that happened between Draymond and Jordan Poole catastrophically destroyed anything that they were built.

Because if you think about it, going into that 2012, 2020, 2022, 2023 season, like, there was a legitimate shot at repeating. Like, there was, they had the same team. They were bringing a team back. And they had, they got, Dante Divencenzzo. They had a good, they had a good, they had a good offseason, right? And they were primed in doing that, even after the punch.

I remember the first game, they beat the Lakers handily that opening night, right? And it even saw, like, oh, this team has talent, could do something. But they were constantly having to manage and mitigate and try to smooth out the relationship between Poole and Dremont. And that took so much out of the team in general. It just, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it basically killed any momentum that they had for the two-time timeline plan for, um, the, uh, you know, even if you wanted to like, even for the asset building, right? Because you're two biggest assets. You couldn't trade Draymond on a, you couldn't

really trade Draymond on a expiring deal because his value was shot and it's kind of still shot after he signed that extension. And then you couldn't trade pool because of what was going on. Like, you've seen, you've seen how his value diminished to a point where. where they had to trade a pick alongside him to get him to Washington, right? And so, but that, that, when we look back, I mean, you could say all the things about trading, you know, trading the picks for, for veteran players

and things like that. But for real, for real, that punch was, I think, the turning point in this whole thing. I don't, it just was. I don't want to diminish that, Logan, but I do think, like, again, if they had not clung to this, the arrogance of the two timeline plan, let's call that what it is. Like, it's a really arrogant approach to take in this league where superstar talent is so determinative of whether you're a contender or not and whether you can be a contender for years for an entire era. You don't get those guys very often.

And sometimes you've got to be a little bit lucky. And they were with Steph. You know where it came from, though? It came from them wanting to be the spurs and wanting them, but they were just arrogant enough to think, oh, yeah, we could just, you know, we can make comminga into a kawai, no problem, right? And I think that's, right, and I think their arrogance, and I think they still kind of have that sort of arrogance, even when you hear the quotes about like, oh, yeah, we're going to put this, it's just tone deaf, honestly, from all that's why I think it's, that's why I think it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it. reads like all of those breeds like a hostage letter because it's just unbelievable to hear. Right. Like, why would you even say that?

Why would you say that to your fan base who lived through the 90s, right? Like, and who lived through all, I mean, we're both Bay Area kids. We both. Who was rooting for the warriors in like 96? No one. I've tried to explain this to people. Again, here we go back in my day. Being the old man.

Being the old man here. No, dude, growing up in the Bay Area. shout out San Jose. Growing up in the Bay Area in the 70s and 80s, like the Warriors were barely on the radar. I know they won a championship in the 70s. I know that, you know,

some decent players passed through for a brief period of time. But the Niners, the Raiders, because they were still there, hadn't left for the one of their 17 times of abandoning the Bay Area. The Niners, the Raiders, the A's of the Giants,

Stanford and Cal even, depending on the year, football and basketball. Like all of these teams were, had a greater following and were more in the zeitgeist, we're more covered in the San Jose Louisiana Mercury News, my hometown paper.

How many... Question for you, real quick, Howard. The Warriors were not on the radar. Nobody killed. How many Laker fans did you grow up with, Howard? There were some. My buddy Wes was like a huge... He was a Laker fan and a Rams fan

despite also being a San Jose native like me, like one of my best friends in high school. There were a lot more of those than like... Yeah, because it was Showtime in the 80s, right? I got a quick story. I got a quick story for you. I got a quick story for you. So my first ever basketball video game was NBA Live 2000.

And I remember seeing this team called the Golden State Warriors on there and not knowing where they were from because it said Golden State. And not knowing until like three or four months later before I actually went to my first Warriors game at like six and was like, oh, oh, this team is in my backyard. Oh, okay. Oh, we're golden state. Oh, the Warriors are Golden State. Oh, okay, cool. I had no idea. Like, I promise you as a six year, and I had no idea they even existed.

No one is walking around Warriors jerseys in the 70s and 80s, or probably a lot of the 90s, for that matter. But all that to say, like, that's what I'm saying, like, for this group, the arrogance to say like, hey, oh, man, you know, we're going to set up this franchise for years to come. And, like, that's not. It doesn't work that way. So here's the thing. Like the punch notwithstanding, and I don't think you're wrong on that. But again, everything is in the context of they were screwing up their decision making in the process anyway. So even if the punch happens, but you had made better picks with what became Wiseman Kamigamudy.

Or if you had traded those picks, which is what I always thought they should have done, and gotten veteran help, you would have. You would have, you can withstand more stuff if you've got better players. Or veteran players who are ready to win. If you would have just bit the bullet and traded one of your institutional guys. Like that too. But, okay, but I respect that. Like I get them wanting to extend as far as they can with Steph, Clay, Drayman. Right.

That makes sense. But they need, the older they get, the more support they need. And the support was not going to be coming from a bunch of rookies who needed time to develop. And, you know, like, if the punch never happens, I still don't think we're seeing like, he's not going to be All-Star Jordan Poole. And we're not seeing All-Star Cuminger or Moody or anybody else either. You need to replenish your All-Star level talent. That's the thing. Two timelines means we're planning for a future when Steph and Clay and Draman are gone, but we're still really good to great. Well, that requires all-star level talent. And they don't have it after their veterans. None of the young guys have shown. shown that they that they can do that not not not the current ones not the ones that they've already parted with so listen i do think like step is step is like tim duncan in the sense that like he's always been this low maintenance superstar right he's not lebron or coby or shack or other guys who have pressured their front office make this move make that move so i get uh your

your hostage uh reading take i think that there's some genuineness to this with step in particular in that he's always been of the mindset of like, you know, obviously I want to win at a high level, but it's not, he's not, he's not geared to be one who's going to tell the front office, make demands, do this, make this deal. I do think you're right too that there's not a deal to make. Like, Jimmy Butler was the one that seemed like the, the most logical until things really started to melt down in Miami. And then all of a sudden, the warriors are signaling, you know, through, through the media that we're not interested. I still think Jimmy Butler actually, could help them. There's risk involved. I don't think he could. I don't think he could. I think he can.

I do. I think that he will class with that locker room. And also like Jimmy has to, Jimmy has to be an alpha wherever he is. He has to. And no, he doesn't. No, he doesn't. I'm a, I'm a, look, can I just like stop you and say no? And I'll tell you why. Okay. He's never been a high usage guy. One of the, one of the things that I've always loved about Jimmy as a player, all of his other nonsense notwithstanding is that he doesn't need to dominate. the ball. He doesn't have to have a 35 usage rate. He's not a Harden-Westbrook type who's heliocentric. He's always actually been, he was great with Joelle M. B'd. He's alpha in that you need to do things the way Jimmy does them. You need to bring it every day. You need to play your ass off. You need to defend.

You need to not be soft. But he's never needed to dominate an offense. He's actually the ideal one A or one, or excuse me, ideal 1B or two to a one like step because he doesn't need the ball in his hands all the time, but he can run the offense when needed. He knows he's not a great shooter, but he's going to create offense by getting to the line and just by forcing things here and there. I think he's a great complimentary star, especially at this stage of his career. He's 35, and he knows he's getting close to the horizon here. I'm not. So I'll push you. I'll, There's risk for sure, though. When I said Alpha, I didn't mean on court alpha.

I didn't mean he was going to take shots. Oh, you mean just locker room? I meant locker room stuff. And like in every situation suggests that like, he's similar to Russell Westbrook in that way, but not necessarily like he doesn't crash. Like I don't believe that Westbrook crash and Burns locker rooms. Like he doesn't leave carnage when he leaves, right? Like there's, I think whenever Russsberg leaves people like in the locker room, say what you

want about it's like reverse say what you want about him on court but like people in the locker room tend to love westbrook even when he but like with jimmy he always leaves like a fire of some sort right and like you can't and that works when he's maybe 28 to 31 but not when he's 35 and a team needs to win right like i don't think that and and he's also going to be somebody that's going to want a new deal coming into your building that's like that's the problem yeah that's what i'm saying like i'm not talking about the on court stuff i'm talking about in the locker room and day to day and and you do that mid-season. Like, I don't, I don't think that that's necessarily a good idea for a guy like that.

For this team specifically. Now, I do think if Jimmy were to go anywhere, I would love for him to go to Phoenix for that. I think that that would actually help Phoenix. I think that Phoenix actually needs a fire under their ass. But, like, I don't think that that's, I don't think what you want to do with this Golden State locker room is put a guy like that who needs to be an alpha in the locker room and all things revolve around his orbit.

I don't think that that's a bit idea. Yeah, I just, I don't know how, I don't know how you're getting Jimmy to Phoenix. And I understand why the Warriors would be hesitant to maybe even opposed to acquiring him. But who else can you possibly get in the next, whether it's the next few weeks, the next few months before next season. Steph, again, 37 in March, he's got what? Maybe another season of this? Two seasons of this at most.

And when I say of this, I mean, still playing an elite. level. So there are 43 guys, which is astounding, by the way. Forty-three players right now are averaging at least 20 points a game. Of that 43, Steph is 13th in true shooting percentage. Not great by his standards in true shooting, but he's still elite. He's got a better true shooting percentage than LeBron, Kyrie, Anthony Davis, Jason Tatum, Anthony Edwards, by a lot, which is why McIntyreux of being also over. Like, no one is, like, no second options. No one is paying attention to anyone else on the court. It's like, it's very ugly to watch the Warriors right now because it's good stuff

the ball, but like the entire team. Like all the whole boss is Celtics, they didn't, we don't care about Santos. We don't care about such as such. We don't care about Dennis Schrooter. That's fine. Leave them open. We're going to go for 30. Like, it's, it's really an ugly off watch.

Because there's nobody else. There's no other option. Yeah. And he's still got one of the best shooting percentages in the league. Again, better than Booker, better than Luca, better than Donovan Mitchell. So that being the case, like, I just don't want to watch that season go by and this impact of him go by without it meaning anything.

But I don't know, like short of a Jimmy Butler, like, can you get Cam Johnson? Seems like the Nets are holding out for a lot of picks for Cam Johnson. Is Cam Johnson enough? I think actually he'd be really great fit, but is Jeremy Grant fit? Like, I'm looking like, can you get a two-way guy who can shoot, who can do a little offensively who can defend wings. If I'm the warriors right now, if I'm the Warriors right now, and I know Brooklyn has interest in Cominga.

If I'm the Warriors right now, I trade Camiga right now for Camden. No, for sure. Just go ahead and do it. I agree. I agree. This is another thing, like, this is another thing to the Warriors are like in big swing mode, but also like if we've known anything about, you know, I'm sorry to like shit on on lift six years, but I'm going to do it anyway.

Like, it's not all about. It's just gratuitous. It's not. all about getting the star, right? You also need ancillary pieces. So, like, if you can't get a star right now, build up on ancillary pieces and figure it out then, right? Because the most important thing is it's really hard to get from, like, ass to great. You have to get from, like, ass to solid to really good to great, no matter what, you know? Like, we've seen time and time again, we've seen it

with Phoenix trying to get great overnight. Like, it's a gradual process. And, like, I know, and I, And I know that Steph doesn't have like time time like that. But like if there's someone out there really good that you can just go get real quick, just go get them, put them in your locker room. Yeah. And two other, two other quick thoughts, by the way, on this. When people push back on like, oh, you know, being all in, like this is a mistake because you're sacrificing the future and all this stuff, I, there's no one move that or even two moves

that's going to make them a contender, Logan. I think it's enough with Steph at age 36, soon to be 37. it's enough just to say give him the best chance to at least be in the playoffs win a round or two and not have it be this depressing like let's get knocked out in the plane or something

Yeah, like it's fine like you don't have to be contending to make the trade worthwhile. You don't have to, it doesn't have to be a home run trade. It's just about making these last couple of seasons as meaningful as possible. And if there's an outside chance of the title, great.

But it's, but there's that. The second thing, is like, again, there's no future to sacrifice because whatever you do with Cummingo, maybe he makes a couple all-star teams in the future. He was not going to anchor your team for 10 to 15 years the way that Steph did. Nobody that you have is, like there's nobody on your roster who should be untouchable. Just, and again, easy for me to say, it's hard to make trades in this league, especially now under the CBA with aprons and shit. But do whatever you can to at least make this team fun, interesting again. Give Steph that stage in the spring to do what he does.

Last thing, though, on this. And I, I'm going to add on to what you just said. I just think it's BS when people say, like, we're not going to mortgage our future. Bro, trades get traded every day, B, you can get them back. Like, it always happens. Brooklyn is a great example of this. Brooklyn, no, I'm just saying, like, people are like, you know, we don't want to mortgage our future trades for other people. Like, you see now Brooklyn just traded away. a hell of picks to get Durant and then or not Durant but like they traded a lot of picks and then they to get Durant Hardin and all these they got all these they're getting picks back there that's how you build like you're gonna you're gonna get it back

it's fine you'll figure it out if you have a good good front office front offices trade players and picks every day it's all in this league nothing is sacred like I just hate when people say like oh we have a we have a pick trade them picks you want to win or not you have Steph Curry, you ain't never going to have them again. Yeah. Occasionally it backfires. Like the Pierce Garnett deal for the Nets obviously was a huge misfire and it helped build the Celtics back into a championship team. But those are rare. And the mistakes there were, you know, not protecting the picks, being a little too desperate. And besides that,

that was to graft guys onto a team led by Darren Williams and Joe Johnson or Brooke Lopez, not a team led by Steph Curry. It's huge difference. thing, bro. You're going to suck regardless when Steph retires. So like, who cares? Just let it go all in. Just deal. Yeah. Yeah. Rely on your front office to make good picks with the picks that you still have. Because you're not trading all of them. You can't. You literally cannot trade all of them because of the Ted Steppen rules. So like, you'll, you know, rely on your front office to figure out a way to rebuild. The other thing, though, and I guess this is the last, last thing. Mike Dunlevee has a lot to prove. We need some, like, you know, like we just need some. savvy moves here or there. We haven't seen those. Like, I mean, no matter what happens, and I've heard, like, a lot of people, you know,

shoot some bail from Mike Dunleavy that I believe, but will not share on this particular platform yet. But no matter what, like, the deals that could have happened, the, the two things that have happened on your watch is that you traded Jordan Poole and literally got nothing back for it, right? Like, you didn't even, you got Chris Paul, like, for a few games, and then, and let him walk for nothing. And then you let a fan favorite walk, an all-time fan favorite in Clay Thompson walk. You know, whether you, whether like the basketball of it all,

doesn't matter. Like if you're going to, like, every goal that you upset has gone up in flames. First you said two timelines. Then you went, oh yeah, we're going to keep the band together. Couldn't even do that right. It's really dark right now in Bay Area right now. Dark.

Yeah. You'll see when you get here. You'll see how depressing it is. It's All-Star weekend. It's not the same crowds. It'll be a little different. But yeah, I get what you're saying. All right.

Wait so the real one's live show comes on. They're going to show you like, oh, my God, my warriors suck. That's going to be, that crowd will be interesting for sure. Let's take a quick break. We're going to talk about Howard's Comudgeon All-Star Picks. If you're in need of a midweek boost, Fandu, America's number one sports book has you covered with the NBA Hump Day Parlay Profit Boost. Now, every Wednesday you can get a parlay profit boost on everything from spreads to over unders and even player props.

Okay, let's look at the slate today. We got Knicks nets. Hmm, what am I going to pick on that? I think I'm going to take the over and take the Knicks. What am I going to do on Blazers heat? Jimmy Butler. What am I going to do? Go pick the heat, take the over, magic raptors.

I'm going to bet that there's going to be no defense in that game by the Raptors, but I'm still going to pick them to win. Sixers Nuggets. I am going to bet that Yokic has a huge game. Wizards, Lakers. I'm going to pick the Lakers, and I'm going to pick the over on points for Jordan Poole. So don't let the weekend have all the fun. Take advantage of the hump day parlay's reward stack.

Who knows? It might just become your favorite day. Look for the hump day parlay in the Fandul app to find your profit boost. Or visit fendual.com slash ringer NBA. That's fandual.com slash ringer NBA. Make every moment more with that. FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner in the NBA. Must be 21 years and older in president in select states or 18 and older in president

DC, often required. Bonus issued as non-witzrable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration. See terms and sportsbook. Fanduel.com. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. And we are back. I don't, can you talk about your All-Star piece?

Yes. Yes. I've confirmed through official channels. Here's another thing. What's the point of making All-Star picks if you can't promote them on your podcast? First of all, all right, Cliff, put this in post. Drumroll, please. Got. So the media accounts for 25% of the vote on All-Star starters. I was among that pool of, I think probably 100 people, turned in my ballot yesterday, Monday. And here we go. In the east, at Guard, I had Jalen Brunson. Le Mello. No. And Donovan Mitchell. We'll get back to Lamello, I'm sure.

In the front court, I had Janus, Jason Tatum, and Carl Anthony Towns. In the West, the guards were Shea, Gildes Alexander. Are there any other Shays? I don't think so. And Steph Curry. Shea moisture and Shea butter. Phenomenal things to have in your medicine cabinet. Who are probably first over Shea Gilgis Alexander in my household.

SGA and Steph. We're my back court on the ballot, front court of Yokic, Wembenyama, and LeBron. There you go. You got any issues, any concerns, any questions. Logan, that's my ballot. That was my official ballot that I turned in yesterday. This Thursday we will find out, I believe Thursday, probably on TNT. That's the usual approach.

We'll find out who the starters are based on the 50% fan vote, 25% media vote, and player. about 25% player votes. What made you pick Jalen Brunson? What was your Jalen Brunson pick? Explain that pick for me. I mean, other than the fact that you want severance over this weekend. No, I just want to say,

I'm looking at the guards right now. I knew you weren't going to pick Lamello, right? Obviously. Did Dame Lillard get any consideration from you? No. Not much. I won't say no. Just not much.

I mean, I considered just about everybody who was within the top eight to 10 guards in performance and or even on like, I always look at who the fans are picking just to see, like, you know, which is, which is wild because, like, Jordan Poole is ninth in the fan voting as of last Thursday. But Lillard was third. And so, like, I'm at least going to look at it based on the fans being enthused about him and based on performance.

But, like, Jalen Brunson is having a much better season than Damien Lillard, a much more consistent season, I think. And the Knicks overall, like, the All-Star game is not necessarily, like, just about, like pick the guys who are on the winning teams. But like in case of tie or even close by a few percentage points, yeah, I'm going to lean toward the guy who's having the better season and whose team is then having the better season. Like I think that's fair. But what Brunson was the easy one.

Mitchell was the hard one. What made it, what made it hard? What came to the, what made you pick Donovan Mitchell in the long run? Like what was the one that was hard about that one in your eyes? what was hard was that I think Darius Garland by some measures is having the better overall season, but Donovan Mitchell is clearly their lead guard and their lead playmaker, the lead score. Like Garland's got a high, like his efficiency is just overall at a higher level. But I think part of that is because he has the benefit of playing alongside Donovan Mitchell,

who's kind of got to be the driving force of the show every night. but I considered Garland over Mitchell and I went with Mitchell but I did not really consider anybody else that seriously like I wasn't going to go it's a pretty big drop-off like Lillard's worth considering but like Trey Young eh maybe Trey young Trey Young is Coddingham not as a starter I'm sure Trey Young will get like picked as a as a reserve he is a chance he could pick reserve our buddy of any goodwill went hard for Kate Cunningham when I chatted with him on his pod last week. And Cade's having a phenomenal

for Detroit. Are you saying that Vinny went hard for Detroit? I know it's, is that something that you're telling me right now? I don't believe that. I have no evidence suggests that that's actually a thing that he does. Cade's worthy.

If anybody wants to make a case for Cade as a starter, I'm not going to dispute it. Like I feel comfortable that Brunson and Mitchell are the two best choices there. But Cade's got a case. What was the hardest? Who was the hardest decision? because I feel like the guard, at least from public perception,

and the most scrutinized quadrant has been the Eastern Conference guards. I think everything else is pretty straightforward. I think the fans did a pretty good job otherwise. I don't think that there was like any drop off. Is there anything that gave you pause in any of the other quadrants? Yeah, like the fans went in the front court in the east. They went Janus Tatum and Towns, which is exactly what I did. There wasn't much to debate there.

You know, is Evan Mowgli worthwhile? Like most of the front court, guys in the East who you normally would consider are either banged up or have other stuff going on like Palo and Wagner are hurt and Embedes hurt and Paul George hasn't played enough of the season and he hasn't played all that well and Jimmy Butler is doing Jimmy Butler things. So like there weren't like it almost made it easy in the East on the front court because so many guys are just, you just had to put a line through them. The West like Curry, curry over Anthony Edwards was was my final decision there.

But like, what made you do that? Because that's pretty, that is hard. Cause like, Curry's had a hard season, man. Like,

and I get why he's number two in guards. But like, there's been, there's been some really good performances. But like, based on what we talked about in the previous, uh, in the previous section,

like, there's been some duds too over the simple fact that like he's getting quintuple team. Yeah. Um, look, I don't know like it's hard, but he has to be there because it's the bay and I get why people want to

to stuff the ballot for Curry. But like, he hasn't had a great season by step stand. By Steph standards, no, but by other guard standards. Like, so first of all, this, this would be Shea and Luca easily if Luca hadn't been hurt for the last month. So let's be clear there. That second guard spot should be Luca in a season where he's healthy, but he's not healthy. After that, like, look at the fan vote, right?

So Steff is, as of last Thursday, was second in the fan vote. Luca, despite the injury is third. And then it's Kyrie, who's had a decent season, but like, not spectacular. popularity. That's a popularity thing. And then Anthony Edwards is fifth. James Hardin, John Morant, again, Jaws missed a ton of games, Dearon Fox, Devin Booker, Norm Powell. Like, that's the top 10 in the fan vote. It's not like there were a ton of great choices there when you're weighing everything. So to me, it came down to Steph and Anthony Edwards. Steph's had a better season, I think, by pretty good measure statistically. And again,

especially when it comes to efficiency, true shooting percentage, effective field goal percentage, and any other measure you want to apply, I think Steph's having the better overall season. And it's not like the Timberwolves are blowing anybody's doors off either. So this was not a vote for him because the All-Star Games in the Bay or anything like that. This is like, I think Steph's legitimately, given this field right now and given Luca being out, Steph's legitimately the second best to Shea. Question for you. If Luca was like played all the games, right?

And Luca gets voted in. As a starter, do you think that means Steph is coming off the bench in his home, like in his home region? You'd think somebody would have him a starting spot? I know we don't want to go to, we don't want to veer into this discussion yet, but the fact is there's going to be three all-star teams of eight players each plus the rookie software team. Oh, God.

You're right. Sorry. Which means that Steph is still going to start for one of those three teams. But I know you don't want to, we're going to hold it. I'm going to hold off my text for a couple weeks. I'm going to just started by saying, yeah. We're going to fight. We're going to fight over.

We're going to fight over that one. Anyways, Western Conference front court. What were your thoughts on that? So, Yokic was an obvious shoeing, right? Wembenyama is obvious at this point, too, by the way.

Like, there's, like the only knock on Wembeyanama, the only potential knock could be either their record. They're like three games under 500 at the moment. Or, I don't know, he shoots too many threes for a guy who's 7-4.

what like, fine. What these 1970 takes? Like, yeah, exactly. Enough already, people. Victor Wimonyama can do whatever the hell he wants. Wembe is just ready to people. Wembe can do whatever he wants. Do you know he's, uh, I look this is up for another.

Statistically the greatest player of all time through two years. Yes, I, I, I'm aware. He's averaging four blocks a game. Do you know who the last player and year to average four blocks a game in the NBA? Dennis Robman, 1990. right here actually oh is it a cheme malangea one no de kembe matumbo there you go de kembe matumbo average four blocks a game billy legend in 95 96 only nine other players in history have averaged four blocks a game and of course that that only goes back to 73 74 because

that's when they started tracking blocks can i pick those ones can i try to pick those ones you get the other one oh um all right can you see if you can find those it's it's on my it's on my it's on my screen right now. So name the other players who have average, again, it's only since 1973, 74 when the league first started recording blocks. Was DeKinebe Matambo in 96? That's correct. He also did it in 93, 94. So when I say only nine others, I mean, nine other players, not, not seasons, because some guys did it multiple times. Okay. Can I, can I, can I guess? Yeah. I don't really, I just like this exercise in VA history. All right, um, Bill Russell was, was, he was retired by 73, so that doesn't count. Also, they weren't

tracking blocks in Bill Russell's time. If they did, it would be nuts. Kareem? Kareem makes the list twice. He averaged four blocks a game in 78, 79, and again, or excuse me, 78, 79, and also in 75, 76. So yeah, Kareem did it twice. Manute Bowl.

Manute Bull, great call. Manute Bull averaged 4.3 for your Golden State Warriors in 1988, 89 before Logan Murdoch was born. I'm feeling lucky right now. You see me, Cliff? I'm all you're trying. Bro, we need more trivia on here, man. Oh, wait.

We need more trivia. Bull also did it. Bull also did it twice, by the way. He also averaged five blocks a game in 85, 86. Okay, how about, okay, okay, okay. How about Ralph Samson? Ralph Samson does not make the live. Damn it, damn it, damn it.

Oh, look, that was, okay, all right. Let me get like a couple more to see how I'm doing. Okay, so that's the first one that I have been done. You named one of them earlier, by accident. Dennis Robin. No. He wasn't a shot blocker though.

Is it dream? Is it a dream? Karim. Akeem. Akeem. Okay. Akeem did it three times. 89.

99. How many did I have? Do I have? How many do I do I? You've got Kareem. You've got Kareem. You've got Kareem, Manute, DeKembe, and Akeem have been named so far.

There are still one, two, three, four others. Four. Well, if you can also help. If you want to chime in on this when you're Howard are I got two in mine are they white guys are they white guys one is

Sean Bradley no great yes but no is it is it is it Lambert no damn hold on is it hold on hold on one more if I'm thinking white guys right now I'm trying to go white guy is it um

who's the dude from the Grizzlies big country was it big country no it was not Brian damn it okay okay you're gonna kick yourself guys all right who is it Steve Carrey Oster Tech? Is it Oster Tech? No, God, no.

Shack would kill you just for saying that. Mark Eaton, fellas. Mark Eaton. I wasn't going to get that. Four times. Yeah, I wouldn't have gotten that. Mark Eaton. Mark Eaton averaged 5.6 blocks per game in the 19804.85 season.

That's like that. How many, how many games did he play? 82. Oh, you played the whole. That one for eating pick is like when you tell people that Scott Sciles at the assist record. It's just like, oh, yeah, you're right. For sure. Except, except Scott Scouts has like a one-time, almost fluky one-game record.

And Mark Eaton averaged better than four blocks a game four times in his career. I'll talk about what the streets think of as trivia, man. Nobody was ever going to get that in the barbershop, my guy. That's not going to happen. You're missing, wait, you're still missing four guys who made the list of at least four blocks a game in a, in a season. Tim Calacami on Twitter? He's well exceeded four blocks of games.

You, Dave Robinson? David Robinson did it. Four and a half blocks a game in 91, 92. You were still missing three other players. One of whom you absolutely should get. The other two, a little tough. Absolutely should get, um, Dennis Robinson.

Parrish, Robert Parrish. No, great guest. but no. Are you, we tell you? Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. Patrick Ewing is the one

you should have gotten. Four blocks a game in 1989-90. Tree Rollins in 1982, in 1982-83, 4.3 blocks a game for Atlanta. And Elmore Smith, 4.9 blocks a game. We weren't getting that one.

How about to say? I guarantee we were going to get that one. What did he do that one? I didn't even know he played for the Lakers. What year was that? 73, 74. Oh, they were doing tape to. That was tape to late years.

We were not even. Also, the first year of recorded blocks. Okay. We weren't. We weren't. We weren't watching. I don't think anyone was watching. Did CBS have the rights?

Games were playing at one in the morning, right? Even I wasn't watching back then. I was in kindergarten or something. That was fun, man. Speaking, that was good. Okay. Speaking of trivia, let's, um, Cliff, mailbag time. Mailbag time.

Wait, question. Before we get to anything, because, because, let me just say, Let me just dip behind the curtain a little bit about who, how we like our questions. I personally do not like questions given to me beforehand. And Howard does, which is something that we've figured out pre-pot. But what I would like to know is, is there any? So Cliff sent because of Howard's preference, which I get, we have nipped that in the butt. Howard will just get the questions beforehand.

I don't want anything to do with him. My question, I like to prepare. What can I tell you? Yeah. Because Cliff, I like spontaneity. But are there any questions that you haven't sent to you? Or have you only sent us all the questions that? Yeah, I've sent all the questions that were worth it.

There hasn't been any new ones since the show began since we started recording here. So I didn't have, I have read all three of them, like, so I don't really remember. So let's let's get to it. You want to do this first one by Ben Hayes. Got really inspired for some reason. At least four of these are good. I think this, so, no, no, so here's, so here's a subject bar. Read the whole thing.

All right. Here's a subject bar. Top 10 reasons Lamello Ball should be an All-Star game. And so he gives the 10 reasons, right? Ben Hayes gives the 10 reasons and then he goes from 10 to 1. So here's 10. Tweaker will be in this year's All-Star Game theme song. LeVar Ball might do something crazy enough to take the focus off the game.

Number eight is it means the fans aren't voting for Brony James. Number seven, now we know who. artificial intelligence is ideal for a basketball player looks like. Number six, sneak preview of San Antonio eventually swindling the Hornets for a by-low and lamello to throw Lops to Wimby. I'm a spurs fan. Number five, it's actually the players getting bots to vote as a passive-aggressive aggressive dig at Adams Silver.

Number four, it's the fans who are frustrated with the exit players saying, back in my day, we hung files on our clothes lines. Number three, someone has a vendetta against Steve Clifford. Number two, Lamello is actually the platonic ideal of a player in a modern All-Star game. And number one, most players die up in real games than half-faceted in the All-Star game. The NBA is hoping Lamello zags and brings a defensive intensity and competitiveness back. That's great. That's awesome.

What do you have to say? Shout to Ben Hayes. That was really good. How are you going to be? That was really good. I have no notes on that one. What was your favorite one, though? Because I have the email.

What was your favorite reason? My favorite reason was LeVar Ball will be there, then distract everybody from the actual game. That's by far the best one. I think the most Howard-centric one is someone has a vendetta against Steve Clifford. Because I just replaced that with Howard Beck. I can't wait to sit next to Howard Beck at the fucking All-Star game. I hope Lavello gets in.

Just for that, just to see the face. It just the fuck. This is terrible. I don't think Lamella's going to make it as a starter, but I am curious to see if the coaches choose him. He's only made one of their All-Star team, which actually I was surprised to see. Like I, like, those are 22.

He's been hurt all the time, though. So that's probably why. He's been hurt a bunch. And yeah, the fact that the Hornets have not been good probably has hurt him a bit. And there's always been a lot of good guards. But I was trying to do the math earlier to see like where it's going to fall. I think he might make it, but I'm not sure if he will. Like assuming he doesn't make it as a starter,

I'm not sure if the coaches are choosing. I think that the bots one is hilarious and it's also players would be petty enough to do that shit they have enough money to like it's nothing to give bots to go just to do that the players can't even get their own fucking ballots

right they're not putting any time the bots would do a better job than the players the players do it the players voting is a shit show Howard there's one super nerd in every locker room that could do this there's one at least in every locker room that could yeah running up

running up all-star votes like music arts do streams is crazy. Like that's actually insane. If there was any locker room that would do it though, Howard, I think it's in Charlotte Hornets. If there was any locker room that would be like, yo, because they got two rappers on the team. All right, anyways, what's the next question?

That was good. That was good. Well done. All right. So ran against stats by Ethan. He says, hey guys, love the pod. Been a listener since day one. Shout to Logan hashtag dad mode.

Rajah and Howard held it down, but we've been missing you. Stat nerds are taking the L this season, specifically Howard's rant against Lamello as an all-star. Everyone knows that he's not the best guard in Eastern Conference, but Lamello is for the people, all caps. He's young and putting up empty stats, but watching him play is a joy,

and the creativity he brings with his passing and dribbling package adds to the sport of basketball as an art. And like Raja said, averaging 29 ain't nothing to sneeze at even if he's chucking. As for whether he's a winning player, let him expand his game to its limits so he can naturally learn where to pull back. No one says a thing when we all pretend like Wimby's seven

four shooting three is a smart show you know what he say no what he say say say the full thing i'm ready to think all right all right no one says a thing will you all pretend like wimby's seven four ass shooting a three is the smartest choice because we know if he can that will benefit him later if the entire all-star roster was like this then yeah that would suck but it's not and having him on the team would be indicative of the culture of basketball this year the NBA is a star driven league and there should be no problem with allowing one of its most fun stars to be on a big stage. Shout out to

the group. Love you guys. Keep doing what you're doing. Shout out to Howard for getting cooked for being right. I mean, he opened by basically saying I'm right. He said, quote, everyone knows he's not the best guard in the Eastern Conference. That was the problem. He's number one in voting as of last week. That was why I started the rant last week.

The best part of this is brus saying the Wimby part. Winby 7-4 as shooting 3. He's also capable of Lamello. What the fuck does Wembe have anything to do with Lamello ball? I think what he's trying to reference out just like to stylistically, it doesn't look normal, right? Like Lamello's just kind of all over the place with his driveling and kind of playing and one basketball in the NBA, whereas Wembe's 7-4 should be in the pain all the damn time.

Probably get a bucket every time, right? That's not today's NBA. So like, you want to go on set and like replace Shaq and Charles with your rants about, oh, seven footers got to get the butts down in the post. Great, guys. We got plenty of that shit already. Wait, wait, wait. What's your, what's your, what's your, what's your, what's your, what's your, what's your,

Markley impression? I don't even know what that was. You know what you did that out in the post. That was like some sort of shack, Barkley, like European hybrid. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I think I somehow, like, merged them for a moment there unintentionally. Um, um, you need to get your ass out there in the post. Like, that's not, that's just, it ain't today's NBA. I'm sorry.

Wemby's allowed to shoot threes. Does he shoot too many? Yes. But guess what? He's still not shooting nearly as many as Lamello is. And Wembe's actually impacting winning by playing defense and leading the league in block shots of being the first guy since it came to Matumbo in 1995, 96, averaging four a game game. Like, let's not even start comparing Wembe's value versus Lavello's. Come on. Phenomenal voice control from Howard Bank.

Yo, the other thing is, I was watching the Warriors Boston game yesterday. Boston put up like 48 threes. And that wasn't even the highest on the, uh, uh, of the night. Borders put up 53. Jesus. Welcome to 2025 people. Like, get used to it. All right. Um, listen, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't know what our, what's our, what's our guy's name again, uh, Ethan? The letter? Yeah, Ethan. Yeah, the email. I'm not going to lie. I kind of got scared when I saw Ethan. I was like, oh, fuck. This dude.

Jesus. I was like, I was so scared when I saw this email. I was like, I got it at 6 a.m. And I'm like, oh, I'm finishing the Peloton ride and I fucking see. See, this is, this is why. why Logan can't get. This is why Logan doesn't need, doesn't want previews. It might scare him unnecessarily. Um, appreciate the, appreciate the email, Ethan. Appreciate the thought. Other Ethan. Other Ethan. Appreciate you actually acknowledging right off the top that Lamello's not the best guard in the Eastern Conference. Um, I don't know what him being quote for the people means. If it's about being entertaining, cool, sure, great. Yes, valid take. All-Star games are there for entertainment purposes, among other things, but it is also for posterity and resume

building and like it matters who starts in the all-star game and it matters who racks up all-star it's a popularity contest man and he's one of the most popular dudes there if it were truly just that Logan that the fans would still have 100% of the vote and they don't so um it's true yeah i look i'm much more i would just but i credit Ethan for set making this point in that there's a much more compelling argument for lamello being a good all-star choice based on his entertainment value and the fact that he's fun he is fun i'm not arguing that But that's a much better argument than some of the stupidity that I've been getting on social media since last week's show about people trying to make the case for why LaMello is actually better than I'm giving him credit for or it's really just all his teammates' fault or whatever. There's no excuse for shooting 24 times a game and 133s a game when you're not that good of a shooter.

Like at some point you got to reel it in, especially when you're the point guard and you're the best player on the team. You are supposed to help facilitate and create for other guys. It's not a winning formula. And it's not to say he never will be a best. player or more winning player or will have better teammates that will enable him to do that. I didn't bury him, the guy. I just said, this is not a winning formula and he's not playing a winning style and he's not a deserving All-Star starter. So all of which I stand by. Do you hear that in the distance? That's a call. That's a siren from the fun police that is out.

Wait. Fine, put him in the All-Star game. I don't care. Hey, yo, I'm barely going to going to watch anyway. God forbid he gets MVP of the All-Star game because Howard's head is going to fucking explode. Yo, I won't. I won't care. This is comparable though, honestly, like if this was a full game and we'll get my full thoughts again, you know, a few weeks. This is a full game. This is comparable to like 2014 Kyrie Irving All-Star pick where like he's just like just cooking people because he's a perfect. He's a perfect all-star game player. He's going to shake the shit out of him. He's going to throw some lobs. He's

going to like, do the eye goggles. He's going to like, you're going to do a Harlem shake in the middle of the court. And not playing a lick of defense. either, yeah. Like, you are right. You are absolutely right. I'm, I'm a, I'm a, never mind, man. Let's go to next question, dog. All right. Let's get to this last question here from Trevor. Fellows, spurs have not been great since around Christmas after a promising start to the season. However, thanks to the Warriors, sons, and wolves all kind of sucking, they remain firmly in a play and hunt. Considering how good and competitive when B.R.D. is, not to mention CP3's competitiveness, is there a move they can make at the deadline to make a mini-leap

Cam Johnson maybe feels like Wimby is already too good to just sit tight for the rest of the season. Trevor in Sacramento, shout out to UC Davis. Oh, yeah. Go eggs. Go eggs. Nice. Nice. Hey, say F. SAC State, right here on the pot.

Say SAC State right here on the pot. Right here on the pot. Shout to my people in Sacramento. Shout to all my people in Macramental. You know what it is. Shout out. Shout out Oak Park. Shout out West Sack.

Shout out Daytona. Shout out to Grant High School. As an East coaster, before we get into that question about the Spurs, like, what's the beef between UC Davis and SAC State? Like, is that a thing? It's called the Causeway Classic. We're rivals. We're rivals.

UC Davis is on one side of the Causeway. That's a section of I-80. Sack State or Sacramento's on the other side of it. They were once way back in the dark ages when I was in college, Sack State and UC Davis were briefly in the same conference together when they were both Division II. And they're just, they're like, it's a regional. rivalry. And the football, when they play each other in football, it's called the Cosway Classic.

UC Davis beat Sack State like, I don't know, 25 years in a row or something. So it wasn't even ready to rivalry. So that's interesting. Yeah. UC Davis had the better party, so I don't know UC Davis. When we go out there for all so weekend, it's going to be a first time in the Bay. So I'm excited to see what it's cracking out there. It's going to be all right, man.

You know, it's going to be chill. It's going to be fine. You got to show me something. You got to show me something while I'm out there, bro. I'll pull up. I'll show you. What the hell? Anyways, what was the question? The first was the spurs, right? You're going to run it back?

No, no, no, I got this first. Okay, I'll say. Okay, so me and Howard talked about this briefly, like, before the pot. I think Cliff, I think it was the prepot meeting. So, yes. No, they shouldn't make a deal right now. They should just, like, let it happen a little bit more organically right now. Like, me and Raja and Howard always talk about pushing the button and also pushing the button too early.

That's a thing. and by pushing the buddy and I mean trading for a veteran trading for somebody to play alongside them kind of let it happen naturally let's see what i think we're in the in the stage where let's just see what wimby does by himself right now let's just see what he does there's no other guy really i feel like if you trade for somebody right it's kind of forcing it right now if you trade for like a star like you're not going to put jimmy butler on this team let it kind of happen organically you're seeing that happen with houston like i think there was a speaking of um sam amic like you know He picked an okay school, but he's a better reporter than, you know, would suggest for a school.

Damn. Now, I'm just playing. Shout out Ryan Cougler, who is also a SAC State grad. But he had an interview, Amy did, with M.A. Udoka that was really good, where he basically talked about the pursuit of James Hardin. And he's told James Hardin, like, go pursue a championship. We're not ready right now, essentially. I'm paraphrasing. But that's essentially what M.A. told Amick.

And I see that right here with the San Antonio Spurs. Like they're not ready to contend right now. They're learning how to do that right now. And so is Wemby. And I think that like if any button pressing would kind of mess up that process, that's organically already happening. I don't think it'll mess it up, Logan, but I'm with you. Like I don't think they should make a move.

But it's mostly because Wembe's only his second year. He's 21. He's still kind of learning what his, abilities are. And yeah, if you threw another, if you threw an all-star, like a veteran, mid-career veteran right next to him right now, would it secure the spurs as if not a top six playoff team, at least like a playing team that has a chance to grab one of the last two play. Like, yeah, they might get that anyway, by the way, but you don't have to hit the gas right now. Like, he's, he's only in a second year. You've got all the time in the world and you don't want

to play that card forever. You don't want to be overly patient. But like, You can be patient right now. Stefan Castle, rookie point cards looking pretty damn good in spots, but he's not quite ready yet. They've got like interesting pieces like Bissell and Sohan and Kelton Johnson. I don't know what this is all going to become, but they don't have to make the playoffs this year. If they do, it's great. It's great experience for all the young guys.

But there's no desperation to like prove to Wembe that we can build a contender around you when he's only in year two. So no, by the way, the spurs had, I was looking at this up earlier because it, they broke this streak, but they had like a 10-year streak or something of like never making an in-season trade. They're not a mid-season trade team. They're not a like, let's go get a guy at the deadline team. They have made some minor moves in the last few years, nothing overly dramatic.

I don't expect they're going to make some big dramatic move in the middle of this season either. I think you let this ride, see where it falls, see if you make the playing or maybe make the playoffs, when we get some postseason experience. you reevaluate where you are in the summer. Maybe Chris Paul is retiring and you're now trying to figure out, like, is Stefan Castle ready to like take this over? Who else can you add? They've got a, I think they're top three for most picks.

I think it's them, the Thunder and the Nets who have the most picks to work with. So like when the spurs are ready, they got a lot of tools to make a deal, but they don't need to do it right now. We're in agreeance here. We're in agreement. What do you think, Cliff? First of all, man, how are you? No, but forget, forget,

Wembe, I got questions for you. How are you doing after this weekend, buddy? Look, my birds, man, fly Eagles Fly, you know, NSC Championship game, getting the cracking, I don't know about it. That was a little stressful though, brother. That was really stressful. I was at the game.

I was at the game. It was freezing cold. I had my shysty on. I mean, they said I was bad luck going into the game, but we came out victorious. It was a little bit more stressful than it had to be. Were you living up to all the Philly stereotypes at that game? No, I don't live up to the Philly stereotypes because that's dangerous.

That's dangerous. The Philly stereotypes is they beat people up. They beat people up, you know what I mean? They harassed people. None of that was happening. I was outside in 20-degree weather, kicking it with some friends and family. A lot of fans of the Philly Special Pop, which everybody should be listening to, pulled up. You know, we have fun, shook some hands.

Are you scared of Jade and Daniel, sir? No, not one bit. We got Jalen Hertz. We got Sequin Barkley. We got our style defense. We're ready to rock, baby. You ready to go back to the bow. Can't wait.

Hey, Cliff the producer. Clip that shit and keep that for next week, all right? So if there's a major hard word. Yeah, yeah, famous last words. We're going to start the pod with that one if everything goes awry. because, hey, the commandos are out here. Anyways, Bumani Jones in a second.

Bumani Jones of the right time with Bumani Jones fame. I wanted to get you in here because we're recording this few days before the inauguration. And I wanted to get you in here to talk about just the evolution of how players use their voice on social issues. And I guess we'll start there, right? Like, what has been the biggest difference you've seen from? players, I'm using this in air quotes, by the way, using their voice from the first Trump administration to now as we're going into the second one. What are the what are the differences and similarities in the pros and cons? I mean, I think the difference is stark. I don't really

be hearing it that much, no more. Maybe I'm not hanging out in the right places anymore. That's entirely possible. Like, I try to be very careful about using absolutes and saying things like, ain't nobody talking about it no more. But at least not anywhere that I've seen. It hasn't been that loud from athletes, but the point that I've always made about this that I think gets lost is rarely, if ever, is the athlete moving out of step with the largest society. And I don't think the largest society has the same sustained energy for pushback against

Trump that it had eight years ago. But in terms of what the players are going to do, I guess it's also fair to say, let's see what happens as an administration goes. It's one thing when you're talking about this during an election, but as the administration went with Trump, the pressure stayed on Trump to last go round. This time, the administration is about to start. Now, I don't think that it's going to be pressure anything close to what it was from anybody the last time that we did this, but now it's kind of when the clock starts. And if somebody's going to do something like, what would be a precipitating factor to make people jump up again, to see if people can

come anywhere near, like having the energy that they had before. That's the interesting part that I always think about is the fatigue level, right? I don't think people realize, people see the slogans, the chance, and the marches, and a lot of things that go into this, but they don't see the energy that is exerted when you are talking about a movement, especially a movement, the size of what happened in the summer of 2020, right? And, you know, these are athletes with day jobs and things like that. And I don't believe that people realize the sacrifice that is going, that really goes on when you're talking about a grassroots level movement. Do you think that these players just got up and were like, man, I dip my toe in this in 2020.

And even beyond that, right, because you talk about the Colin Kaepernick, you talk about what happened in the NFL. But do you think there's a fatigue level of like, I went through this and I dipped my toe into this? And I just don't want to exert that energy anymore in the way that I don't. did in 2020. Well, I mean, that's certainly possible, but I think it probably comes more down to I don't feel the way that I felt then, right? Like 2020, the question that I had always as 2020 went, and I think the answer has become clear. But the question was whether it was a movement or a moment. And it is very clear that it was a moment. It was not a movement. And there were things that were done and there was a furniture that was moved around, but a whole lot of that share right back

where it was in the first place now, isn't it? Right? Like, the ability to keep that going wasn't there. But it was a moment that had to do with the social circumstances, but also a nation that was largely under the restrictions of a burgeoning pandemic, people who couldn't go places. Like, it was so tight and people was so mad that white people was on the team for like a good six to eight weeks. Like, they was there. They stuck around. It was like a short-term lease, but they was in the neighborhood. Like they was living there for a little bit. That time itself, I think, was so special.

And I say, I mean, special in the sense of unique. And then carried over into an election. And then we went from there. I don't think that things are landing with people the same way. I think a lot of the things that we talked about, keep it in mind that 2020, I would make the argument was really kind of the culmination, not just of what the pushback was against Trump, but Trayvon Martin is killed in February of 2012. And Mike Brown, I believe that's August of 2014.

Like, the sustained energy of all of that stuff went. And it would make sense if after eight years of that, people were just a little bit tired, right? Like, it's not like the police stopped killing black people, but we did stop talking about it in a national. Yeah, but we did stop talking about it, you know, in a national way. And I'm not judging people for the fact that they stop talking about it. I'm just pointing out that sometimes you just lose the energy of those things. Yeah. And I think we've seen that.

But also I think even on the other side of it, right? Like on 2020, it was interesting because you started seeing the commodification of protests in a lot of ways, right? Especially with leagues. You saw that, you know, NBA was basically like, yeah, we'll do whatever it takes for y'all to get back on this court. and let's make this money real quick, right? We'll put anything you want on there. That's largely not there anymore. You know, talk about political pressure.

You talk about things that have gone on in the administration. This administration right now, you even talk about you see Trump right now where he is just going at the Amazon's and these other places. And they're like, you know what? You are right. We're going to be on your side now. It's not the same political climate as it was. So, like, I guess I'm thinking about, you know, maybe months and years down the line. But, like, what do you think is going to happen if, say, Trump goes out of league again, like he does in the NFL or specifically goes at the NBA, which is looked at as such this liberal league, even though they took away the slogans before the NFL did?

Like, where are we? Where is, what's, what's going to happen when there is a inevitable Trump? I'm going at a league I'm going at these players. Do you think the leagues are going to have the players' backs in the way that they at least showed that they did outwardly back in 2016 and 2017? Yeah, I do because I don't know how much

there is that Trump could really do to the leagues. Like what he could do to Amazon or Facebook is, or meta, sorry, meta, but companies of that scope and that operate in many ways somewhat monopolistically, there's a lot that a president can do to make their lives hard, right? It's a little bit different, I think, when you start talking about these leagues. So I do believe that they'll have that they will have

the players' backs if such a thing happens. That hasn't been the culture war, though, that Trump has been fighting this go-round. Like, I don't know if this is, I don't know if he comes back to this. If this is one of the hits that's going to go over the same way that it did before. One thing people talk about very often with military, they say about generals is that generals are always fighting the last war, right? I'm not sure how much the last war is going to prove itself to be reflective of what the direction is of this next war. I don't know that. I do agree with you, though, that there is a fair question to ask about how tall people go stand in the face of what might happen with Trump. But I don't think that sports leagues are nearly as vulnerable as some of these other operations. Now, the question becomes the individual interest of the owners themselves, where they're not. They're not, that that makes them want to stay on board with Trump or how this goes. But I don't, I don't know. I think there's arguments on both sides of this, but I don't think, I don't think that the leagues can afford to truly sell the players out. I do wonder though, right, because specifically with the

NBA, like if a, if there is a, if there is a Nick Bosa in the NBA somehow, right, who was very outspoken or with the current administration, even though, you know, we don't know what the political alignment of every single NBA player is, but I'm sure there's some that aligns with Trump and his policies. I mean, I'm sure there's more than one and it might be growing based on, you know, the exit polls of the last election. But how does the NBA mitigate that distraction? Because it's on one thing, it is, it is cool to put your support behind, you know, maybe a protest that everyone in your league is supporting. But what about if it's on the other side where, you know, they have to mitigate that like someone, oh, someone is just straight back.

How do they mitigate that part? You can't do anything about that. Like, that is a mainstream political opinion. You're not really, there are ways in which you could deconstruct the platform if somebody goes too far in one direction on the thing and you can say that that thing is the issue. But, I mean, the majority of voters in America voted on that platform is very difficult to make the argument that you could go and, you know, tamp that down. I don't know specifically how he feels about Trump, but I think somebody whose political platform kind of fits the description that you've offered is Jonathan Isaac.

He over there being Jonathan Isaac, don't nobody really care. You know what I mean? Like there's no, I don't think there's, I don't, first of all, what a league can't do is ever appear that it's shutting down someone's politics. Like you can shut somebody down for being indecent. you can shut somebody down from committing one of many isms. You have to kind of keep it on a level of principle in that way. But if it feels like that you're shutting down politics, you're in the wrong. You absolutely cannot win that.

Were you surprised at like the lack of support or at lack of endorsement on either side from the NBA during this last presidential election? LeBron did it. But I was kind of curious when he was going to throw, I mean, I knew he got into his politics aligned with Kamala, but like I was. really surprised that it took him that long to, uh, to endorse her. And, you know, I know, Kamala wasn't, she's not Obama in terms of just mass appeal, right? She just wasn't that. I mean, the numbers suggest that too. But were you surprised that a lot of players who seem to have their

politics align where didn't really speak out or at least a league that did, didn't by and large kind of rally around her? I, that's interesting. I don't, I'm not sure. Um, I think the difficulty for me in coming up with the answer on that is how little I care about who any of these people are going to endorse in the direction of voting, right? And I hadn't really thought about it until you asked that question. Something I do find to be interesting is that, like, this was a pop culture phenomenon of an election also. Like, normally that is the sort of thing that encourages famous people if they just want to be part of the conversation to jump into it, right? And that didn't happen this go round. Like I don't think that they were not as vocal as a league or anybody else, really.

See, that's the thing. All of these things we're talking about specific to them, I don't think it's that much different. Then, no, I can't say that about the Harris thing, though, because, I mean, people were definitely having something to say. Yeah, I guess I was surprised by that. Like, I hadn't really given it a whole lot of thought in the moment. But I guess it is a little bit surprising. and I don't know who had truly what to lose at that point.

I don't like the league itself, like the NBA, like Park Avenue, they kind of need to be separate from this. But what I did find interesting, or at least it felt like, because I know when I've said these things, I hear from the NBA and they'll tell me about the things they've actually done. But you heard a lot more or it felt a lot louder around voter registration from the NBA in 2020 than it did. in 2024, right? Because like just the mere act of encouraging people to register and to vote

serves every purpose that you're talking about without having to be explicitly partisan. And we had seen in, you know, in 2020, we're using arenas as election sites and all of those things. You just didn't hear as much about that this time. I don't know what did. I truly don't know what of that platform stuck around, you know, into 2024. I just know I didn't hear that much about it. You know, you were talking about just the, even the voting. And the first thing that comes to mind is LeBron and that, you know, he was the face of more than a vote. He's not the face of it as, I don't even think he's leading to charge anymore. I think they, they see that to NECA. But he's kind of evolved in like where he dips his toe in social issues now, right? And I know

there's a lot of has to do with the fact that he's a businessman and, you know, and things like that. he's kind of always been this sort of capitalist, but like where do you see his role in all of this, you know, going forward right now, right? Because he is now, him and Steph Curry, who has kind of used his voice, but they are kind of now the two voices, but they're getting older, right?

Like, so like, where do they, where do they fit in all of this right now in terms of their voice? Well, I mean, being older should be the point of giving them more gravity. Like, I mean, I personally don't care what a 25-year-old thinks about any of this stuff. That'd be silly.

Now, maybe I would care, about that if I was 18, but I would think that with some age, that the point of you having something to say, you may not be as cool as you used to be, but your reach is probably as big, if not bigger than it ever had been. And your boys got a little more base to it. Like, I would think that there would be the case. I don't, like, LeBron's always tried to be a businessman. So I don't think any of that is different at this point. Like, to me, that's not a, that's not a change. You know, with LeBron ending up there. But I don't know what they're. But I don't know what place is because again, I'm the wrong, I don't care. Like, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm not,

I'm not that interested in what either of them think about these things. So the role of the athlete to me is, is very dependent upon who the athlete is himself, right? Like, to me, it's not just a general idea. You got to be a particular person with a particular insight and a particular set of cares, or, you know, a particular set of concerns, I would say, to get here. And like, It is helpful for people, particularly on the left, who want athletes to have views because they feel like they can then get things that there's a whole bunch of people that wouldn't otherwise have to listen to it. And now if LeBron James says it, now they do. But LeBron James is also a lightning rod sort of figure. Who knows what happens after he gets out there and he does it, right?

So I don't think there's any clear, easy answers about where either of those do stand in this. it's just interesting how we like we see athletes talking about you know these social issues at least in this day and age because you know i don't know if there is a comparison to um like a lot of people like to compare you know lebron to like he's having his Muhammad ali moment or he's having his bill russell moment or he's having all these moments and i'm just like well them dudes really had something to lose like they wasn't getting they didn't have like this generation of well they didn't have like this generation of well they think there's like a there's a flowery like way we pit them doing that like and i feels like we're getting you know with a lot of the when i talk about the commodification of protest i feel like these guys are like it's i always see like these press releases in my email like well you know he's doing this social justice angle as well right like it seems like it's been that way how do we get to like the grassroots of it all in a more organic way that i feel like we actually are doing it But I think it's silly to expect rich people to do grassroots things.

Like if you want to speak to a major difference between this LeBron and LeBron of however many years ago is he's a lot richer now. Like the things that he's thinking about are perhaps just a little bit different because his station in life is different. The people who typically do the grassroots stuff, one, tend to be young, right? Like when you look at the people that really kicked the doors in and everything else, that's the behavior of people in their 20s. head's supposed to be out here just kind of like giving you game. Like what LeBron James and cats like

him at this point in their lives are supposed to be doing to help movements like these is giving people money. That is what they do. That's not the guy that's going to be marching in the streets. It's not going to be the guy that's sitting things on fire. No, no, no, no. He's 40 years old. He's out of that window. You get people some bread to help him make some moves. That would be a perfectly appropriate thing for a man like him to do, you know, but I don't, very few people approach these things the same way that they did, call it 10 or 15 years ago, no matter who they are. It's funny, you know, because LeBron, like, I think he legitimately wants to be that face. Like, when he hears the Muhammad Ali comparisons, I'm sure he's really, really excited.

Oh, I mean, okay. Yeah, I mean, it would serve the ego of anybody if you felt like the world was really saying that you're in Muhammad Ali. Now, what Muhammad Ali was doing at that time was just so much more of a revolutionary thing that a public alignment with the nation of Islam is something that LeBron James, no analog of that would he ever do. Period. And I say that with no judgment. That's not something he would ever do. The dynamics of a war and an actual defiance of the federal government, right? Like, it's hard to have a true comparison to that right now.

Okay. Honestly, with the defiance of the federal government like that, the closest Ali comp quietly is Bill Walton, who had to stave off the FBI being all up in his shit over who his friends were and those sorts of things. But with LeBron, nah, it's okay that he wasn't Muhammad Ali, but he was not Muhammad Ali. That is a very superficial understanding of what Muhammad Ali meant in his time. What did you think of the LeBron, Kareem, and I say this in Eric Kov's beef, right?

Because I think that's a really good, like a really good look into generational ways of looking at the way the world is, right? Like, say what you want about Kareem, he's still in the streets. These substacks are still coming. He is still talking that stuff that he was talking back in the day, right? But like, what did you think about those two kind of clashing, even if it was for a few weeks, right? Like what did you think of those two and those two entities colliding? Don't everybody like each other? And the world is not short on people who don't like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

I'm not saying it should or should not be that way. Like Kareen dialed it up at the end when it was time. And LeBron passed him and he put on the good face or whatever. But I think in both directions, one is not the other kind of dude. I don't think that's necessarily generation. you know like i think kareem is his own kind of dude lebron is his own kind of dude and they are coming from different spaces and times yeah yeah and i guess and then go back to the league's point right where we talk about

you know 2020 and the league's response to it do you think that the NBA has lived up to what i guess the internet would call itself or call it as like this woke left leaning progressively because I think there's a lot of holes in that right like I think there's a lot of there were the first ones to kind of they put the branding on but they also were the first ones to take it off and be like hey we're going to kind of sit down the middle yeah but I mean so for me to be fair like I thought that was a very smart thing for them to do was to take that stuff off because it had become distracting like once people are thinking more about what's on the court than they are what's happening on the court you got a bit of a problem and that was a fair

That was a fair concern for them to have. They went a little over the top in their response. And that was because the players had them over a barrel. You were holding them hostage in Orlando and making them play basketball. And now they're really mad. And they say they ain't going out there. They had all the cards. You better put the coofies on and take that knee.

Yeah, you got to do whatever it takes to get them dudes out there on the basketball court. Right. So, I mean, they had them in that time. But I don't, there's never been a time where it would be appropriate or actually true. This characterization of the left, the league is being like anything approaching being far left. Too many billions of dollars for that thing that would be far left. Those owners aren't terribly different than the NFL's owners. The only difference is the nature of a basketball roster gives the players, especially

the really good players, more power than any players will ever have in football. And as a result, they can flex on the NBA a little bit about certain things and make things happen. Like the NBA, the culture of football is not black. The culture of basketball is. Like, you can't change that around. The tolerance of the fact that the culture of basketball is black leads people to see it as being this far left league. And I do think that there are some what many would call progressive sensibilities that the league is publicly adopted. but I don't think that those progressive sensibilities that the league has adopted

are any different than the sensibilities of any major corporation of its time, right? It's the same stuff. The NFL in its actual offices probably has a lot of the same stuff that they would say or they would employ. It's just that the football is not culturally black and basketball is. Well, is that why there's such a difference in procession between the both leagues, right? because like NFL still has racism on their end zones, right? And like, like, why is there such a difference in perception when one lead is it doesn't have the insignia and one does? There's a difference between the court saying Black Lives Matter and the field saying it takes all of us.

And racism too. Yeah. But, yeah, those are, I mean, they're very anodyne statement. This is right? They're, they're, they're benign. They're not shaking the table. Okay. The NBA put Black Lives Matter on the floor because what you have to remember is there was a brief glimmer during the summer of 2020 where the phrase Black Lives Matter was polling positively over 50%.

Yeah. So they was riding a wave. The problem was that wave did not last as long as the bubble did. And if they had just done it for a couple of days, right, a couple of games and then taking it down, it probably. would have gone over better, but they couldn't do that. People was mad, right? Like, that wasn't going to be enough. And for a brief, there was a brief moment at time where people thought that everything had changed.

L-O-L. Where do you fall on the line of people saying, like, oh, you know, that wokeness has killed the NBA ratings? I think personally it's stupid. But like, why does that even, why has that been able to grow so many legs with this? particular league. I mean, because it always is that the people who dislike the NBA are always looking for an excuse. So, like, it's going to be something. You can only, you can only pay so much cretons to when people try to ascribe those sorts of things. Because, I mean, look around

that league, man. I don't, like, who are these people that we're talking about now? Like, start naming them. It's hard to come up with somebody that truly fits the description in a public way that would be offending these people who theoretically, who in the theory that you offer. do that. No, to me, the problem with the NBA's ratings is, it's twofold. Well, maybe three.

One, America is becoming to football as Canada is to hockey. Where every bit of news and every bit of coverage, like we're becoming a one sport country with a lot of like

other smaller sports that people enjoy. But like this idea of a big three because we don't always say big. four hockey is not considered to be big in that way but the idea of a big three no no no no no it's going to be the big three like when lebron was in miami like keep it real big dog it was lebron and then it was the mother two like that is a big thing i think that's happening with the mba um i think number two people's consumption patterns on a lot of things got thrown off by the pandemic and they wound up off the calendar and all kinds of stuff you know happening there and i think that

that in the margins, if nothing else, had an effect of people jump. People just didn't quite jump back to the habit when it came to basketball. And number three, to me, is I think that this is a rejection of the current style of basketball that is being played. And there are tweaks that they need to make in the rules to encourage a different style of play, because what you have now is just incentivized people to stand behind a three-point line and shoot way more three-pointers than I personally would like to watch. Now, maybe not everybody's like me, but I believe that the league needs to do something about this because I don't

find this to be a delightful brand of basketball. And it's not just them shooting threes every possession. It's your best teams doing. It's your marquee team's doing it. The boss at Celtics do it all the time. Like, 23 seconds left of the shot clock, I'm going to chuck this three. And it's not only, It's the teams that are on TV the most that are, right? So even when the casual fancies, it's like, I don't want to see that. I want to go back to your first, the first point that you made when you were talking about the NFL and football in general, because I want to put college football in that as well, becoming the nation's sports, the sport right now, right? And the NBA's MO throughout, at least my entire life was we are the most global sport out there. Everybody got a basketball court.

There's one in China. there's one in Rio, there's one. If that was the case, how did they fumble that bag? Is it style of play? Is it, you know, wokeness? Like, what is that? That's what they always pride of themselves on as a league.

Yeah, and I don't know what the numbers look like around the globe. Like, maybe they're staying high there. I don't have a great answer for that. I just know the American, you know, the American appetite for the game I can speak to. I don't really know what's going on around the world. But it is, just generally speaking, There aren't that many games that people play everywhere.

And really it's basketball and footy soccer. Those are the two games that people play literally everywhere. In America, I really love sports that we really kind of just play in America. They really, really, really into those. But it's crazy, though, because the NFL, what I kind of like respect about the NFL right now is they just saw some gang shit. They're just like, you know, yeah, we're going to play on Christmas Day, so what? We're also going to go to Berlin. You know, we're also going to go to Brazil and play a regular season game, right?

Like, there just seems that audacity there when it seems like the NBA is a little fidgety right now in terms of growth, right? Like, I feel like they're letting these narratives kind of like consume them as a league, right? Adam Silver's over here asking answering questions about ratings all the time, right? Like, I don't know where we are right now, but I just know the NFL is just on some gang and shit and the NBA seems to not be. but I'll tell you this, if they get a true superstar player, like if Victor Wembejama, for example, becomes that sort of force now we're talking about something different. But the thing is,

but what is often the seismic change for basketball is the emergence of that guy. And you're saying, yes, he is. He's 20 years old. He just got here. Like, people are still getting to know that guy. It doesn't have to happen immediately. but like what happens if you get a deep playoff run from him in the next call it

couple of years and that begins to start highlighting stars that are around like basically the NBA needs it needs it's Caitlin Clark and sickly there have been those players yeah yeah but I mean but I mean that's the same person though right like cyclically you've had this you had the emergence of Dr. J yeah the emergence of Jordan um shack in a lot of ways became that player. The next one that really just kind of became the center of our attention universe in basketball. We had LeBron James. We added some other. It hasn't quite been one like LeBron, but Steph Curry, much to our surprise, became that person, right? Who's going to be the next one? It does feel like we're at a bit of the late 90s all over again, you know, like that lockout year

going into the Lakers three Pete, right, where people were just trying to find stars. I mean, I love it. I you love Ant. I do believe that Wimby is going to be that guy. It just feels like we're not promoting Wimby. It's as crazy as it may seem as much as we could as a league. I don't know. It just seems like he's just mashing right now. And I don't know if that's Market, but also he's like this, he's from Paris. He is a world name already. I just, I don't know. Maybe maybe you're right. Maybe he does have to get to a point where they're going into playoffs each and every time, right? Yeah, I don't know how much. I mean, market, I think the, emergencies of LeBron James and Kevin Durant from Cleveland and Oklahoma City indicates that the market

size thing doesn't really hold. Like Russell Westbrook, they were holding, they were still doing television numbers for the Thunder after Durant left in that first year, right? So, like, I don't know how much the market part helps. I do think a lot of the coverage is kind of based on the way that these algorithms work generally giving you more of what we know you already like. And they know that you like LeBron James. They know that you like Steph Curry. And so they keep giving you back what you like. I don't know exactly how anything breaks through, though, whether that be in music or anything else. Like, I don't know how these things break through. But the NBA needs their breakthrough. Like, Caitlin Clark broke through. Yeah. For whatever reason, she broke through. So who's

going to be the next NBA player to really break through? Like, I really like Anthony Edwards. He's my guy, but he may be the level of star that is truly a lot of people's favorite player. But that doesn't mean you're going to be Michael Jordan. Like, the day that happened. I don't know. late 90s. You think? No, no, he is not there because that was so singular. Like that's like that was a natural born star, right? Like he didn't have to do nothing to make the star out of Alan Iverson.

Like it was right there as he was. That was what made that so fascinating and so special. In a lot of ways, Anthony Edwards has that, but he doesn't quite have, he has like a silly defiant streak, the one that cusses in interviews and stuff like that. Iverson wasn't doing that childish stuff. He was terrifying people in a whole different sort of way. Anthony Edwards, we just kind of chuckle at, you know? But in the late 90s, the mistake with the late 90s was it wasn't simply that everybody

was looking for the next Jordan is that a big part of what they ascribed to be in the next Jordan was being inoffensive. And what they misunderstood about being Jordan and why you couldn't find anybody to fit that archetype so particularly is that he was inoffensive, but he wasn't like benign, right? Like Grant Hill didn't really make you feel anything. He seemed like a very nice man, but he didn't really make you feel anything. Jordan was cool as hell. Jordan had an edge.

Jordan had like a street quality tool. Jordan had all of those things. He just didn't say nothing stupid. But it wasn't a matter of like, oh, you know, we just need somebody that's all so clean cut. No, that was the secondary thing of it with Jordan. The primary part was that he was cool than a motherfucker. And Edwards could be that. Maybe, right?

Who's going to be the one to cut through? Yeah. And even with the wimby stuff, right? Like I see like even if he is a big star, right? Is he going to be a big star star like that in America, right? Because he could go the Janus way where Janus is a huge star, I think, all over the world. But I don't think he's, is he the biggest star in the NBA right now, you think? Like I don't, I can't, I don't think so.

I mean, the biggest star in the NBA is LeBron James. Or LeBron. Yeah, big star in the area of LeBron James. But I do, I think what would be interesting about Victor is that Victor will be fascinating to children. Like it's one thing when you have the big man like Shaq and that is the that gives you Goliath like Will Chamberlain gave you Goliath and those people I mean Shaq became a giant star but you know there's a different quality to that there's something about the super tall skinny

dude like him that can taut his body in all those ways and they call him an alien kids love that stuff you know what I mean like he is ready made for a young generation that could come up and then him be their goat. Yeah. And he has like, it's funny because like he has like, his body's type is like Kareem. Remember seeing him in Summer League. He has a lot more charisma than Kareem did.

So we'll see what happens. Like I just, I don't know. And also like, what do you think that says about the evolution of the big man and where we're going with it if he's the one? What do you think? Because he's like, he's Durant, he's Kareem. He's all these different types of big. Yeah.

He doesn't, he doesn't have anything to do with anything else that's ever happened. Yeah. Like, there's one of one. The closest, and you go look at what Ralph Samson could have been, maybe that's what we're talking about. A seven foot four, face the basket, handle the ball, power forward. That's the closest example that we've had. But like, what does this say about the evolution of the big man?

This is so far off the charts, like such an outlier. I don't know what to say this says about anything. It's crazy. Like when I saw him play last year against Durant and he just like there were streaks where he like dominated Durant, but like he just felt like he didn't know how good he could be at that particular point, but he still had like moments of domination. It was it was really wild to see. I can't wait.

Who do you are you thinking about right now? If I'm going to ask you like who was who was in pole position. I know obviously out of the two players, out of the two teams. teams in Cleveland and OKC. Like who was one of those guys, those teams right now that you trust the most at this point. I mean, I would, I would probably say I trust Oklahoma City because my thing with that Cleveland team has always been they got two tall dudes who ain't very big.

And at the very least, Hardinstein gave Oklahoma City somebody with some size, right? Like with some mass that you can't just move around. And I guess Chet will be back at some point. We'll see how those two things. go together. But out of those two, I would trust Oklahoma City more. Like, look, we're in the NBA era now where anybody can win in any given year.

I don't like that quality, but that's where we are. Yeah. I just don't, I also like to add on that point, I don't, I don't know what was wrong with dynasties in the NBA. I think, like, the NBA was built on dynasties. What was wrong, what was wrong with a dynasty is

that if you own a team, you want a champion too. And instead of making them go out there and earn it, they just decided to figure out ways to make it less random. Like a follower of mine said many, many years ago, they are eliminating the comparative advantage of competence. That part. It's insane.

Well, I really appreciate you coming on, buddy. This was really a treat, man. We got to get on pretty soon. That was Beaumonti Jones of the right time with Bomani Jones. We'll see you again at some point, right? Yeah. Come on. Yeah, man.

I appreciate you, brother. And that was Bomani Jones. You can catch him at the right time every day on YouTube. That has been another edition of Real Ones. Shout out Howard, M.F, and Beck. Shout out Roger Bell, who is somewhere in the world doing dope shit that only lives in the group chat right now. We'll see Howard, I think, next week, but, you know, who never know. We'll see you Friday.

I don't know who's going to be here. I know I'll be here, but I'll just, I might be Will Smith on the last episode of Fresh Friends just looking around for a co-host. We'll see. All right. Talk to y'all soon. All the shits. Bye. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler or visit RG dash help.com.

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