The Ringer NBA Show - What’s Real and What’s Not One Week Into the 2021-22 NBA Season

Episode Date: October 28, 2021

Justin and Rob talk about some surprising trends one week into the NBA season including the hot starts from the New York Knicks and the Chicago Bulls and the early struggles for Michael Porter Jr. and the Portland Trail Blazers defense (1:42). Host: Justin Verrier and Rob Mahoney Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Football is back and so is the Ringer NFL show. Coming at you five days a week with wall-to-wall coverage from recapping the Sunday games, giving a player perspective, deep dives, and previewing the coming slate. Check out the Ringer NFL show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Group chat, I am Justin Verrier and joining me today, the Bing to My Bong. It is Rob Mahoney. What's up, friend? I really thought that today was going to be our first official meeting of the Mavericks three-man leadership council, but it seems like we don't have a quorum here.

It's true. Unfortunately, Big Was is out. D&P, flu-like symptoms. We pushed the pod back, hoping that we'd get him for game time. But unfortunately, he had to rush to urgent care. I told Rob this, and I don't feel ashamed to say it. I honestly thought he was just hung over. Well, the good news is he's never going to listen to this podcast. But if you do, get well soon, Watts. Sure, sure. And I'm glad that. I guess I'm glad that I was wrong, but I'm not glad that you are sick. Okay. Okay. Cool. On today's episode, we have one week of NBA basketball to parse through. And so what we're going to do is going to run through some of the early extreme outliers from this week of play. Basically, teams have done really well, teams that have done particularly poorly. Just teams that we're just overall like, oh, that's interesting. We're going to try to figure out what's real, what's not. The first place to start, Rob, I don't think we're. We can do anything else but the New York Knickerbockers. We're now three and one after absolutely toasting the Philadelphia 76ers. The Bing Bong is just like bouncing around through the streets of New York. I'm sad that Waz isn't here to celebrate this.

Before we get to the team, though, the clip itself of the Bing Bong clip, what an absolute all-timer. We need to release the full interview with the Bing-Bong guy. Like, there's a quick cut right afterwards. Give me the full Bing-Bong cut. Yeah. The editing that they did on this video is particularly, like, sweet. Because, like, we've seen these videos before.

There was one kicking around for the playoffs, I believe, last year. But just that guy cutting through bing bong. Just unmistakable. It reminds me a lot of the Chappelle show sketch of the guy who will just do the robot, like, spinning through a scene. Like, that is what that guy is at at this point. he's already catching on as a pseudo-celebrity. Dan Devine clued me in last night on his Twitter persona.

Have you seen this at all? No, but can I get like a cameo from the Bing-Bong guy? Oh, we're like a step away from that. We're a day away from this guy. Just completely trying to take his five minutes and stretch it into 10 or 20. He was already reaching out to the barstool guys to help him out with some merch. So we might have a real red sweater guy. situation here where it's like sooner or later we'll find out that he's just like watching the

entourage like the entire series once a week and that's the worst thing you can think that someone would do well i feel like it's it's a type of person um anyway about the bing bong nicks themselves what what surprise you most about the early start i mean i think there's a lot i mean for one julius randall in his one-man war against regression to the mean being again Pretty much exactly as good, if not better than he was last season. I wasn't counting on that. I was thinking he might fade a little bit, that defenses might learn from what they saw in the playoffs

and his struggles there. But that has not been the case. He's been awesome for them and exactly the way they've needed and filled out this really interesting front court that even without Nerlin's Noel has been really good. Yeah. How much do you think Randall's early success to this regular season has to do with the guys that they put around him?

Because last year during the playoffs, we saw as soon as like, you needed him to step up and be the go-to guy, there's just a lot of extra defensive attention, and you can really play through that. Is it more the fournieres? Is it more getting Kemba in there? Or do you think he's done something different this season?

I mean, I think it's probably the supporting cast. And really, that's the subtext of every playoff struggle to me, is what is going on around them? What is the spacing like? What kind of help do they have? Is Alfred Payton their starting point guard? I think going from that to Kemba Walker, just like professional grade point guard play, competence getting into your stuff, being more of a

shooting threat, that's a huge difference. It's a massive difference in just like baseline execution for a guy like Randall. And so when you start from that place and you're getting Fournier, who's, you know, as good as shooter as what they had before in like a Reggie Bullock, but more dynamic, more flexible, can do a little bit more off the dribble. You can just see the complete picture there and how it would benefit Randall for sure. Right. Randall is looking particularly, particularly like just swall these days. Like he's always been pretty swole. Yeah, but like this season in particular,

maybe I'm just noticing it more. Like he feels very like the NBA's version of Big Papa Pump. Are you familiar with this wrestler? You totally lost me. Okay. The Steiner Bros. They used to be like wrestlers, but like the less operatic version of wrestling.

I guess what's the difference between pro wrestling versus just regular ass wrestling? They used to wear like the headgear. I could envision Randall being, that guy. Like, he almost plays like it, too. He's a big, like, bruiser type who barrels through the lane. I don't know. This probably lands with some version of the audience, but... Well, it's a secondary career if, you know, being an all-NBA player doesn't work out for him. Sure. Sure. There you go. But in addition to Randall, like we were saying before,

like, this team just seems particularly deep. And they didn't really add much. It just seems like the guys that they did add fill the void. I remember talking earlier this season, I was a little mixed on whether or not that they would sacrifice too much defense in the hope that they can get more offense from Kemba and Fornier. And Kemba actually hasn't given them much. Last night was probably his only really good game of the season. But Fornier has just given them enough. And you've seen it kind of trickle down.

And now all of a sudden, like some of the young guys maybe aren't stars, but they just seem like solid players. It just seems like they're just deep and good. And in a regular season, that's going to win you some games. And not just deep, but their depth. manifest in lots of different styles. Like all their guards play a little bit differently. In their bigs, you have this wide variety,

especially now that Obey Tappin is starting to kind of catch on and find his role with the team. That's just such a kinetic and kind of up and down piece that they didn't have before. He and Todd Gibson are just night and day in terms of what they're giving you on a basketball court. And so that you can throw these different looks out there, it's really a reason why if you look down the Knicks lineup sheet,

they have so many different positive looks, so many different five-man combinations that are working for them right now, even though their starters overall have not panned out in terms of holding up there into the bargain, but they're able to make up for it with the depth you're talking about.

Yeah, I wasn't expecting Toppin and Taj Gibson, who I believe is one of the oldest players in the NBA, to be leading some sort of like second unit, seven seconds or less, like get the ball, rip and run sort of style. But it's been really fun to watch.

Are you surprised at all that Topin has kind of like found his footing? Because I think there were big questions last season, in part because I think the front court was a little jammed up with a bunch of bigs, but it didn't seem like he really knew where he fit in the rotation. It didn't seem like the Knicks could

really find spots for him, but it seems like this is a pretty ideal role for him. Well, he's exactly the kind of draft prospect you worry about, which is very athletic, big coming in with uncertain floor and shooting game. You know, I just have flashbacks

of like Derek Williams in my head. I'm like, is, you know, is Obie Topping going to be able to do more, to produce more, to fill more of a spot. And like, his shot has come and gone. He's had some opportunities to, you know, take some attempts from the corners. Who knows if that's going to be part of his game or not. But if he can be this kind of player, who's just able to give them a little bit of juice, especially off the second unit, that could be a really sweet spot for him. Yeah, juice is the perfect way to put it. He definitely gives them a spark. And I wasn't expecting that for him last season. I guess we'll see what happens when

New Orleans Noel comes back. It seems like his return is imminent. So maybe his minutes kind of go away from from topping for a bit, but I don't know how you take them away from him at this point. And I wonder if he can recreate what he's done over the first four games with Noel kind of being next to him. But overall, the young guys, it just seems like they have all of a sudden a lot of guys with upside Barrett taking moderate steps forward. Still not like a star level offensive player, but like seems solid defensively, which I know he talked about coming into the season is one of his goals.

Mitchell Robinson, another guy who's just stepped into the starting lineup. I know the data on him hasn't been particularly good, but like it just seems like they have, they're not static anymore. You just expect the Knicks for the longest time to be bad and to keep being bad. Seems like they're good and they can actually get better over the course of the season just by internal improvement.

It's a great point. I think Barrett is case and point of that where I think his defense is better than solid. I think he's made incredible strides already. He's been out there campaigning saying he wants to gun for an all defense spot this season. That might be a little ambitious. Right.

But I like where his head is. heads at in that. And I think he could be the kind of player who has that upside swing for them, along with Emmanuel quickly, you know, along with Obie Toppin potentially if he can expand his game in a longer term. There's, there's enough here to like beyond the veterans, especially if we're talking about what could change with this team between now and the start of the playoffs. I think there's a pretty realistic scenario in which RJ Barrett is just demonstrably better than he is right now. I like how all defensive player has become kind of a goal for anyone who really wants the signal that they really want to like do this right that they really want to try hard they

really want to be a team player it's kind of like someone being like i don't want to win an oscar i want a sag award i want to win best ensemble with you guys um but real or not real do you think this is going to continue throughout the season well what are we what are we considering continuing well i think the expectation for them is they would have been good but not great do you think that they can be a top four team in the east by season's end i do not i do not that's that's no fault of them. I just think ultimately the Nets are going to get their shit together. The Bucks are already very good.

I have a lot of faith in the hawks and the heed. That's before we even get into, what happens if the Sixers start clicking? What if the Celtics pick it up? I think there's just more teams with more going on than the Knicks. But I do think I probably undersold them coming into the season as a team that is more firmly in that next tier than I would have had them personally.

Right. You never know if Kemba's going to get hurt. It seems like he was a little shaky to start the season two. I don't know how much that's injury. It does seem like he's taking more outside shots too. Maybe they just need that as a team, but maybe he's a little bit more hesitant post-injury. I don't know. So I think you bring up a good point. I might say it's real simply because they seem like a very good regular season team and Tibbs is nothing, if not a grinder in the regular season. So I could see them just racking up wins getting home court advantage again.

Totally plausible. Yeah, quickly though, before we get to some of the other teams on our list, the other team last night, the 76ers, oh boy, did not look good. And if anything, it got worse after the game because Joel M. Bid is starting to say things that signal he might be more injured. His knee might be more injured than he's letting on. Are you concerned? Is your concern for the Sixers real? I mean, I think it has to be. Anytime anyone mentions anything about Joel M. B's health, anytime he takes any particularly hard fall, you have to take that seriously because there is no safety net anymore.

This is one superstar standing on the top of the building. And if he falls off, this team is going to go into free fall mode really quickly. they have enough supporting pieces to be a good playoff team even without any return for Ben Simmons I think I think Joel Embed is that good when he's fully healthy but you've got to get him at full strength

you've got to have at least one of Seth Curry and Furcon Korkma's hitting shots on a given night like you have to have some other things swing in your favor that absolutely did not in this game against the Knicks. Yeah I don't know what this means for the Ben Simmons sweepstakes like maybe this accelerates things

because they need another star just to take on like the burden, kind of like Russell Westbrook is doing with the Lakers, especially last night without LeBron James, just someone to get them through the regular season. On the other hand, like if Embed is hurt and he's significantly hurt, I wonder if this means that we have a full season of this to track.

Well, not just one full season, four full seasons, according to Darryl, Justin. Oh, my, what absolute horseshit that was, like, did anybody believe that when he said that? Sometimes you just got to throw stuff out there, you know? Right, right. And Darrell is nothing, if not. that guy. So, so respect. All right, let's move on to the later national game last night. And this one,

Rob, is in particular for you here, because you wrote a glowing preview profile of Michael Porter Jr. going into the season about how much upside he has, especially without Jamal Murray there, how all of these fantastic shooting stats that put him among the league's best, particularly for his age. And he has fallen flat on his face so far. I have down here, what's real or what's not, MPJ, because... Okay. 11.5 points, 5.3 rebounds, 2.5 assists,

35% shooting from the floor, 32% shooting from 3 and 7 attempts. Yikes. What's happening? Yikes is right. Yeah. Michael Porter Jr. has very quickly become Michael Malone's

totem for everything that's been going wrong with his team. You know, gets a quick hook from some of these games. He's kind of a symbol for guys who aren't following their own possessions. guys who are not committing defensively, guys who are not running the floor to the corners,

which was a big emphasis starting in training camp for this team. Get to the corners. Like get into your spot in the offense and we can flow from there. On top of the fact that he's just not making shots. So some of that stuff is going to change. Some of it may not. Like this is the risk when you lose someone like Jamal Murray. And all of a sudden,

all of this pressure falls on Michael Porter Jr. shoulders. A guy who has never done that for that long at an NBA level against teams that are scheming for him with that level of scrutiny every night. He has a lot to to prove. He has a lot to show, even before we get to the playoffs and whatever they can do there, what is he going to be for them in these first 82?

Yeah, and last night was a prime example of you would have loved for him to just step forward after that Yokes injury that took him out for the second half. I just, like, didn't know where he was most of the time. If anything, it was Will Barton step into the forefront and trying to fill it up. Is it just like he's not

asserting himself, Porter, or like, is it not, shot's not falling? Are they not, like, going to him enough? What do you think it is. I think he's in that nebulous zone where he fades out of some possessions and then the ones he tries to exert his influence on are too overdetermined. And so then you get into the worst of both worlds essentially. But I mean, if you don't have Nicola Yokic on the floor, you're not going to have all of your normal flow stuff anyway. You're not going to get the same quality of looks. That said, the nuggets have been so bad without him. So bad when they've tried to go with just Porter

and they've staggered that some or they've had minutes with neither on the floor, which are just the disaster. Like, this team is just not deep enough to accommodate that kind of thing. So Porter has to be good. If nothing else in the minutes where he can get a lot of shots up without Yokic out there. I'm already starting to hear, like, where are the Bones Highland minutes? So, like, it's getting dark. Oh, no, that started a long time ago.

That's preseason noise. We're now getting into the echo of the Bones Highland clamor. This is the Bones backlash of the backlash. I mean, it's just so funny how every Nugget season plays out the same. Like the Murray Rinkle is a little bit different, but it's always like, oh, is this team going to pay the luxury tax to pay all their guys? Is this player, this young player going to step up? Is Michael Malone going to play this young player who's showing that he probably deserves some more minutes? It's particularly why, like, I respect the nuggets. I think they're a very good

team and when they're clicking, they're very fun to watch, but they kind of just like fade down my league pastile most of the time. Well, I think to your point, it just gives us more reason to respect Michael Porter Jr. carrying the torch of Jamal Murray struggling at the start of every season. This proves he can be the Nuggets true number two guy right now. That's a great point. All right. Someone who,

a young player kind of taking a leap as opposed to perhaps taking a step back here, one John Moran taking just leaps and bounds, my friend, all of a sudden looking like probably if we were to give a first week MVP would definitely be at the front of that list, if not the clear-cut winner. 35 points, 8 assists, 8 for 18 from 3, which is particularly big.

Already, like, after a loss of the Lakers, which is a very close game, in which he scored 40 points, already, like, taking photos from the free throw line saying he needs to get back in the lab. It's a little bit much, but, like, I respect it. And, like, his play at this point is all that I think really we need to talk about here, which he's been fantastic. Well, especially since Waz isn't here, I feel like we need to speak on his behalf after he's been feuding with Memphis Grizzlies fans all week about his

assertion that, I mean, I don't want to misquote him or mischaracterize him here, but basically that the Grizzlies are John Morant and a bunch of guys, a bunch of, you know, I would say good, not great players, which is why we keep looking at our watches and wondering when Jaron Jackson Jr. is going to ascend and make his leap to be kind of the second star they need. But otherwise, they have lots of really nice supporting talent. It's just, is that enough? You know, if Jaws going to be an MVP level player, is it enough to just have good supporting role players?

Maybe it is. I mean, frankly, I'm not sure there's anyone out there who can stay in front of John Moran right now. I don't know if you watched the Sixers Thunder game the other night, but Matisse Thibel was trying to guard Shee Gilgesa Alexander and just like, could not figure him out,

couldn't figure out like the counterintuitive movement to She's game. And Jaa has some of that, but it's even more explosive. It's even more explosive going to the rim. And so how you deal with that as a perimeter defender? I don't know. How you deal with that as a rotating interior defender?

I don't know. But I'm sure lots of coaching stabs around the league would love to figure that out. If you listeners have any ideas. How little do you think of my social life that I was, you think I was watching the Sixers take on the winless Oklahoma City Thunder? I would like to think that I think that much of your professionalism. Hmm. You think way too highly, my friend.

although I have been keeping an eye on our friend Josh Giddy who like didn't he flirt with the triple double in that game he's had some some really good moments looks really fluid yeah he was he was trash last night unfortunately but like on that team you kind of just blend into the background there um is this a little soon to like be foisting expectations onto the young grizzlies like we're not even sure that Jha is indeed like an MVP let's just even say all NBA level down hasn't made an all

Star. It seems like a little too soon to start Nickpicking about Jaron Jackson and some of these other guys around him. No? Yeah, let's go step by step here. Let's wait till he can make an All-Star team or at least prove that he can sustain at that kind of level. I think he's been really close already. But with this kind of play, he's

firmly in that category. Let's see how that holds up over the course of this season. Let's see how defenses start to adjust to him over time. Right now, honestly, it feels like he's kind of moving defenders more than before physically bumping into them. pushing them out of the way,

keeping his balance and just kind of patiently going up to the rim, which is new. Obviously, he was an incredible athlete with incredible agility. But if he can go through defenders as well, especially some of these like fringier stretch four types who are now masquerading as fives,

I mean, he's going to toast a lot of NBA lineups out there. The shooting, do you think it's real? Because that's been one of the bigger discussion points about him. I'm waiting to see. I mean, frankly, after this many games, I'm not sure we should say anyone's shooting is real who hasn't shown it previously. Like, we need to look at the priors.

And the priors with John Morant say, it's a little up and down. It's a little come and go. And when he hits, he's unstoppable. And when he doesn't, all of a sudden, the grizzlies, you know, you have a way to contain them pretty easily. Right. Do you think that is what he needs in order to take the next step from, like, I would say All-Star is in his future, if not this season, definitely next and the seasons to come? I'm like, is that how he gets from good to great? Well, that's the correction I think we can take from these first few games

is we're starting to see a more complete picture of what All-Star John Moran looks like beyond just him popping in a playoff game, him, you know, showing up in this game or that. He looks like a different player right now. And if this is who he is, if this is how he can read the floor and navigate it, he's going to be formidable for a long, long time. There's already a lot to believe in there in terms of his instincts, in terms of his ability to play off the ball, obviously just his ability to fill it up as a score

goes without saying. But if he can add some of that shooting, if he can add a little more nuance to his passing game in terms of, you know, right now it's like jump in the air, make incredible reads before you hit the ground and profit, which is not a bad strategy if you're John Morant, but there could be a little bit more there there. Right.

Well, that begs the question, my friend Robert. Yeah. He was taking second in the same draft where, one Zion Williamson, one. I think it's a fair question to ask at this point, especially considering Zion's injury history. I mean, Zion's been incredible when he's been able to play, but like, man, it's something every year now.

I think we're officially into danger zone territory if we're talking like redrafts and drafting every player in the league with Zion Williams. You're avoiding the question. No, I think it's valid. Yeah. But we didn't know it then. Like the Pelicans didn't know it then.

No one knew it. it then. Yeah, yeah. I don't fault the Pelicans for taking Zion. Every team in the league would have taken Zion first. But now, are you higher on Jaws future or Zions? I mean, I'll bet on Jha's just as a safer bet. Again, this is more to do with me. This is me being incredibly risk-averse. Sure. But it's especially tough when you're talking about your superstar. And it's just like we were talking about Joelle M. Bede, if your best player has that kind of injury rep and injury history and consistency of just like picking up things and being out games,

it's just very hard to stabilize your whole operation. And I mean, contrast that with what the Grizzlies have been able to do a job, right, where they have incredible momentum as a franchise. They've been able to find other guys in the draft. They've been able to piece this thing together to a point where you can see a future for this team where they are contenders,

where they are getting, whether it's one more star on the door or one of these guys develops into that or Jaron Jackson Jr. turns out to be incredible. You can see the vision of what that could be versus, I mean, the Pelicans are just a disaster on a regular basis without Zion. We all know how great he is when he's on the floor, but the unpredictability of that is super dangerous.

Yeah. I don't want to defend the Pelicans organization because Lord knows there's just like reams of audio data to suggest that that isn't really my corner. But like Zion, by all accounts, from day one has had no misgivings overthrowing his weight around like a superstar. It doesn't seem like they've run into any issues like that. With the Grizzlies, I think that's important, especially. especially considering the markets that you're playing in.

Like, you have to worry to a certain extent about the guy and, like, whether or not, like, he seems like the type of guy who will want to stay long term. Zion just doesn't seem like that guy. Well, and so long as we're talking about these two franchises, the Grizzlies haven't really missed Jonas Valanchunis in the way that I thought they might. Stephen Adams has come in, picked up the slack immediately. Frankly, they haven't missed Dylan Brooks all that much, who's been out with a broken hand. And that's in part just because Desmond Bain and De Anthony Melton,

are nuts. They're absolutely nuts right now. They can't miss. They're playing great. And this is what the Grizzlies do. It's just kind of a plug and play operation there. They have so many valid NBA players and so much, like such a good base of NBA talent. That's what makes them so interesting as a team that could be a contender down the line,

a team that could be, you know, putting together trade packages for guys. There's just a lot of appealing players on that roster. They've drafted spectacularly well. Like they, and I think the big difference is they didn't split the date. baby. They had no, they didn't really signal that they were going to try to win now and then bring along the young guys later. It just seems like they were just all in on building for the future and taking incremental steps, whereas the pelicans were doing a little bit of both at once. De Anthony Mellon, I got to say, I was talking to someone about this the other day.

Is there a wider gap? Has there a wider gap ever existed between a player's public perceptions and what the advanced stats say about him? Because you talk to anybody who has ever been to the NBA com stats page, they think that DeAnthony Melton is like, I don't know, the next Zion Williams, whatever, just superstar player, but like I, I bet you the casual fan has no idea about him. So you're insulted when I ask you about a Sixers Thunder game, but you're out here having backstage conversations about De Anthony Melton. It's so ridiculous.

For the record, De Anthony Melton, the if you know, you know All-Star, unimpeachable, great player, great talent. I love him. It's true. It's true. Now let's flip to a team whose superstar isn't getting as much support. Damien Lillard made a big show of things going into this season about how much he was behind the organization, behind Portland, wanted to stick it out and we see how things go. There was some signs of progress around game two when they beat the Nets, but they got absolutely obliterated the Trailblazers did against the Clippers. I believe it was a 30-point loss.

the big question, as it always seems to be in Portland, what the hell is going on with this defense? Can you make sense of whether or not the bad returns from their defense so far are going to continue on? Well, we have new problems now, Justin. The old system is out. Now we're playing a more aggressive pick and roll scheme.

Stop me if you've heard this one before. But the starters have actually defended, okay. Everything else has been kind of a disaster. And even within that, I don't know that Yusuf Nurkich has been totally on top of it. I don't know that Rob Covington has had that many very good games yet. The fundamental problem there, though, is we tend to focus on bigs when we talk defense. But Damon C.J. played under one coach and basically one system up until this year.

It's going to take them time to figure out the exchanges now that the Blazers are playing this different style. You're just going to have a lot to pick up, a lot of dropped coverages, a lot of dropped assignments in the meantime where both guys accidentally flock back to the same mark. That's just the way it's going to go. I think this is going to be a longer term process for them. And the entire premise of the Blazers in a lot of ways is predicated on the idea that Yusuf Nurkich can be something closer to a kind of star than a role player and woof. That has not been the case so far. Are you saying that the Bosnian beast is no longer a beast?

what is he what's sub beast human I guess he's just the mild mannered center at this point do you think their issues are one of lack of coordination

lack of familiarity with this more aggressive scheme that's probably asking a little bit more of them or do you think it's more of a personnel as you trying to fit into the scheme well in theory some of their personnel

should be better suited for it and I think they're also doing themselves no favors on the other side of the ball where the Blazers just cannot survive having a below average offense, which is where they are right now. This was a team that was second

in offensive rating last season. They kind of need to be in that range if they're going to be competent. But here's what's happened since then. Damien Lillard cannot make a shot. We can talk all we want about the support he's getting. We're recording this before they played the Grizzlies on Wednesday night.

He's shooting 8% from 3. 2 for 24 for 3. I mean, that's going to change, needless to say. The aforementioned no-shows on offense from Rob Covington. Nurkich hasn't been much better than that. They also lost their top bench score in Carmelo Anthony and are basically giving all his minutes to Nasir Little, who that should help you a little bit defensively.

Like Little can guard, he's flexible. He can check lots of different kinds of players, which I think is helpful. But when you're already having these struggles, getting everyone on the same page, as you mentioned, getting everyone familiar with this new system, marginally upgraded defensive personnel is not going to pay off just yet. Like, you really need to be locked in to get the full benefit of what it is that Nasir Little does, for example.

Right. This seems like what I feared with the Knicks, it's coming to fruition a little bit more with the Blazers, where they wanted to be a better defensive team. But if anything, it's just made them a little bit worse on offense. And now, Norm Powell hasn't been there. And so, like, that definitely is going to skew some things, especially over a three-game sample.

But, like, I'm just looking over the raw. I'm like, where is the improvement going to come from? I guess you just hope that Lillard is going to play a little bit better, that they could work at Larry Nance Jr., another internet darling along with Anthony Melton, if you know, you know All-Star team already assembling before our eyes. It's just like, why is this team going to be different than last year or the year before or the year before?

I can't really come up with a good reason. I don't think they will be meaningfully different. I think it's ultimately going to kind of come out in the wash similar to what we saw last season, but they have a long way to go to even get to that point. Like, I mean, for one thing, they're just like punting away possessions and transition right now, really sloppy running the floor,

looking like a team that just doesn't know where everyone is supposed to slot in yet, which is kind of weird because, although we've been talking about their roster changes, they didn't change that much. Like, they swapped out a couple of bench guys, and while that makes a difference in certain lineups, makes a difference, again, as you're acclimating to a new system,

you would think these guys know how to run the floor. think they would be able to piece together, oh, Damien Lillard is there, C.J. McCollum is there. I need to run down the gut and catch and dunk or flare out to the wings and spot up for three, whatever it is. They just haven't gotten there yet. And you would hope that at some point that kind of easy stuff is back on the table for them. But I was told that it wasn't the roster that had more to do with the scheme and the coaching. Are you telling me that I'm wrong? Well, this is actually the deepest Blazers team in years. I don't know if you heard that. I have heard that.

Actually, relatedly, where are you on Simons? He's been a little bit better this year as the primary backup. He's fine. Right, right. You know what happened?

I feel like Jordan Poole is the player that Anthony Simons was promised to be. Jordan Poole, Market corrected him. He took that spot. He is exactly the kind of player I was told Anthony Simons was and just like has not really panned out yet. He's fine. I have no qualms.

with Anthony Simons, but he's neither a solution nor a problem there. Remember that Summer League when Anthony Simons was on the rise? That was fun. We all have our moment, you know? You just got to seize it when it comes to you. Sure. Speaking of seizing your moment when it comes to you, there's a transition for you. The Hornets.

Ooh, boy. Just love these guys. Just like just a barrel of laughs, a barrel of joy. Whatever you want to say. In particular, Miles Bridges has just, come on strong this season. He's basically, I've been saying the player that the Hornets are paying Gordon Hayward

to be, which is not necessarily a knock on Gordon Hayward because I know you're going to tell me, oh, he does be subtle. It sounds a little like a knock on Gordon Hayward. Oh, he's so subtle. He really connects everybody on the floor, yada, yada, yada, and he does do that and he's actually pretty good at that, and I actually respect him a lot for that. But he is moving

like fucking Jamal McGlore out there sometimes. That's just not true. That's just not true. He runs the speed of just like a, I don't know, a hatchback. A professional athlete, I would say. Yeah, okay. But Bridges, on the other hand, just like has become the basketball soulmate for La Melle Ball just before our eyes. The shooting has been real. Just his play around the basket, just being able to move up and down the floor.

Obviously, the dunks have always been there, but they're even more just emphatic nowadays, the 360 against the nets and particular. I expected Bridges to be more of kind of a Swiss Army knife guy you can plot wherever, like fill some gaps when they want to go small. He's the key to doing that. But he's come on to be their second most important player, third most important player on this team. I wasn't expecting that. What are your impressions of Bridges so far? Well, for both last season and this season, he's guarding the best perimeter player every night. And now he's also putting up 30s on top of that. He's also, I think the evolution of his game is he's just turned to like a put his head down and drive kind of player where he is so physical, so aggressive, able to put so many

smaller players in the basket that when you have that balanced with the kind of shooter he is now, that's just a tremendous supporting piece for them to play with and move around the floor, especially when he's not locked into, he has to be in this spot, he has to be a perimeter player, he needs to be on the block. Like Miles Bridges can be all things to all people right now. And that's an exciting place to be as a franchise. But what's really cool about what Charlotte is doing is the way he and Lamello Ball work together in the pick and roll when Bridges screens for Ball, it just gives them two really good angles to attack switches. Because Ball is shooting from further and further out with every passing game, getting bolder and Boulder with his three-point attempts and making pretty much half of them right now. Bridges, on the other hand, and I think we saw this most starkly against the Celtics and Dennis Schroeder.

he is just brutal against opposing point guards, just totally bodies them, can get whatever he wants against them. If you can have that kind of big, who has the off-the-dribble game that Bridges does and can kind of selectively attack mismatches, that's what you were talking about, this swing piece that can elevate lineups,

that can change what they do strategically, that just gives them so much more flexibility in how they attack in the half-court. Yeah. Do you think the scoring is real? Because to fit our theme, we are trying to figure out which of these trends is going to continue on. And over his last three games, 30, 32, and 25,

which I don't know if anyone saw that coming over a three game stretch for him. That might be a little bit much. But if you told me that at season's end, he was still Charlotte's leading score. I think that's possible. I think that's in the cards. If he continues to play this way, again,

it just, if he is this much of a downhill threat for them in kind of standstill half-court situation, That gives him a lot of things he can play with, a lot of different elements of his game to balance and wield against defenders. I think that is a possibility. Are they a playoff team if he is their best score, if he is their highest score?

I think it depends somewhat on health. Like Gordon Hayward has to play a lot of games this season or be managed. Like there's some talk that they were going to load, manage him a little bit this season to make sure he's healthy in the end. If they can do that, if Gordon Hayward is... What a gig for this guy.

I won't stand for this. Gordon Hayward is really good. He's good. But if they can have all three of those guys and a good chunk of their supporting cast, they feel like a playoff team to me or at minimum, a really competitive play-in team. Yeah.

Terry Rozier hasn't really been available. He's been hurt. I would expect him to finish as the leading score just because he'll have 40 points on a random Friday night against the Detroit Pistons and you'll be like, oh, Terry Rozier, he's so good. What do you think about this team overall, though?

Do you think like playoffs, like even avoiding the play in altogether is in the cards? I'm still a little bit more mixed, but I'm curious where you are. That's kind of where they need to target. And some of it has less to do with, oh, it would be great to be fifth place than it is like, we need to dodge if at all possible these teams at the top of the east. Like if you can somehow get into a point where you're not playing the nets or the bucks, all of a sudden the Hornets are a team that is not fun to play against is going to run you up and down the floor.

You're putting a lot at stake with like lamello ball not going seven for seven from three on a given night, which as we've seen he can do. I would not want to be in that business of playing against the Hornets in that kind of situation if I was one of these middle tier Eastern Conference teams. That said, if they make it into the bracket and they're playing against the bucks of the nets,

I mean, that's game over for them. Right, right. I've been surprised. by how their depth has really shown itself to be pretty solid because I was obviously a hugeish fan, however you're not a fan of that guy. I was a little bit more mixed on Kelly Ubrae. And I'm still probably in that zone long term, but just having just a deep bench of athletes who could run up and down the floor, PJ Washington effectively making him the backup five, Mason Plumley has been able to run up and down with these guys. I don't love that contract and

still wonder if they could upgrade a little bit more there. But like it fits. Everything just seems to be of a piece and what they're trying to do is just to jam it down your throat, to be running all the time, to be fun, exciting. And I think that's like over the course of a now 82 game season, I think that's going to carry them pretty far. Like they have a zip and like just like a pep in their step that like a team like, I don't know, for example, the Nets who like on a Sunday afternoon game like just don't have because they're just trying to make it to the playoffs and get over with the regular season. Well, we've seen it. I mean, they just beat the Nets with exactly that kind of formula. And we also haven't seen anything from James Booknight or Kai Jones. They're two rookies

yet who, I mean, I don't know if they'll play at all at any point this season, but if there's any kind of injury, there's any kind of opening, they could be interesting elements there. Another dynamic guard off the dribble who can score and a potential rim protector that they kind of need. I mean, their defense works when they're creating lots of steals and wreaking havoc on the perimeter. It does not work when anyone is getting to Mason Plumley at the rim. That's not really where they're thriving right now. Sure. Real Big 12, like, run and shoot sort of team. And I'm here for it. Like old school Michael Beasley, Kansas State things going on.

Right. Or the Michael Beasley heat, I guess, when all they would do was score 90 points and then give up 110. Speaking of running and gunning team, let's talk about the Chicago Bulls. They are four in O, I believe the only team that is still undefeated in the East, heading into a matchup on Thursday with, the New York Knickerbockers, the Knicks and the Bulls are back, baby. Rob, does this bring back just gleeful memories from your youth? Like Kirk Heinrich memories? Is that what you're going for? Wow. No Nick's Bulls as a toddler? Yeah, I think it was a little before my time, all things considered. But, you know, we can reminisce and have warm and fuzzy feelings about it, I guess. Okay. Well, they're back. And it's great to say. Do you think what the Bulls have, done over their first four games is repeatable.

Do you think that long term this is the type of team we're going to get from them? I think this is the type of team. I think their success within that type is going to waver pretty significantly from night to night, especially as you mentioned. This is not a team that's going to be winning long term with defense over 82 games, I wouldn't imagine. Their half court offense is already pretty solid. Their transition offense is already very impressive.

So they can just kind of hang around. defensively, if they can be pretty competent, pretty decent, then I think this is going to be a really good team. And they actually have a similar formula defensively to what we were just talking about with the Hornets, where, you know, Lonzo and Alex Caruso, I mean, Caruso is just putting up like heist level steel numbers right now. They're just an absolute feeding frenzy on the perimeter. And when you have that to kind of compensate for some of the softer middle interior defense that they have going on, maybe there's enough there to, at least in the regular season, and just catch teams blind

and start picking their pockets, jumping their passes, all that good stuff. You know, you have some role players chipping in that capacity too. Like, Javante Green,

I think, has been kind of, kind of important for them flying around and having kind of an athletic presence as a swing forward type. So they have enough of these complimentary, supplementary role players filling these gaps right now

that it can kind of work, but they still feel pretty shallow. We'll have to see what happens with Zach Levine and his hand injury and his off hand right now, which we haven't seen the results of how that's going to bear out on the floor just yet, but so far he's been pretty good. Maybe it'll all click in the end. I'm still bullish on, sorry, the fit of all the offensive pieces there.

I just don't know what to make of the defense and if like this is a flash in the pan or if this is something that can last. Yeah, it's been fun to start with. It's been fun, hasn't it? Yeah, it's been pretty fun. I mean, Lonzo Ball is a nightly highlight and anytime he gets in like in transition with Caruso, something good is going to come from it. I have been encouraged by what ball is doing, not to again, to bang on the pelicans, but I still don't understand why they couldn't use this exact player, especially with Zion. It just seems like he's the perfect guy to just slot around guys who need the ball.

Shooting has looked good. His defenses look good. I'm kind of like you. I think a lot of it's going to come down to what they could do on the defense event. And I think it's still a TBD. So just to recap here, the wins so far have been over Detroit. twice, New Orleans once in Toronto. Their next schedule is a murderers row.

I don't know any team that has to go through this sort of gauntlet right in a row. They had the Knicks, Jazz, Celtics, Philly twice, Brooklyn, Dallas, Golden State, Clippers, Lakers, Portland, and Timfer. Like, there's not an easy game on that schedule for about a month or two. So I guess we'll find out what type of team they really are. But I would say so far it's encouraging, you know? Absolutely, yeah. They're winning the games that they're supposed to win, which is like something you couldn't say about them last year.

Yeah, and you can be a really good team in the NBA just by doing that. Like, that'll get you to the playoffs. That'll get you to a middle seed potentially. If you just win the games, you're supposed to win. And that's where having all of these guys who are really high floor players can pay off for you. Now, what does it mean that, you know, they've really been playing pretty small to close a lot of games, you know, basically running to Rosen at the four.

What is that going to mean against this caliber of competition? they're about to run up against, we'll have to wait and see, especially defensively. But there's a good amount of dynamism there, and there's a good amount of balance in terms of guys who need the ball and guys who don't. I still like the overall formula as a thing to watch on TV, as a basketball experiment, as a plausibly competitive team. It's checking all those boxes for me. I just, you know, the Bulls are back to being somewhat relevant in our lives, back to contention. You know, not yet. Yeah, let's see what happened.

when they go up against the Toppin Gibson front court. Yeah, talk to me after they best them, my friends. But yeah, no, it's mildly encouraging. I feel more encouraged than I was going into the season about the Bulls. They just have stuff. Stuff tends to win the games, right? I mean, you didn't even know about Io Jasumu coming into the season, right? I don't even know who that is still.

Okay. Let's keep it moving. Okay. All right, last team on our list. if we had the running and gun in Chicago Bulls, I have down here the fast walking and pop gun and calves who are mediocre, my friend. They are average and they are loving it. I think a lot of people expected this team

to fall flat in their face, but this team is pretty interesting. I mean, I guess you could take that one way or another, but like, you know, Evan Mowgli seems legitimately like a star in the making and they've had a lot of recent lottery picks and so they're super talented. and I think that's kind of borne out over the first four games now. What have you seen for the Cavs so far?

That pretty interesting, you just said, sounded like an insult. I don't like it. It's mildly insulting. I think there's a lot of Rubio going on with this team. You say it like it's a bad thing. I think you saw it with the Sons in that he is a floor raiser, but if you're counting on him to be like your go-to guy in some of these games, I think that's a bad sign,

especially because they have so much invested in their backcourt. with Garland and Sexton in Okoro. And as we've seen a plate, like, Sexton sometimes hasn't started. I think he didn't start the first game, but it has since. Garland has been hurt. You know,

Coro is currently being benched in favor of Lori Markinen as their three. So it's just like, it's a little much right now. Can we talk about the Marketing thing? Like, it, yes.

It kind of works. Question mark? I called this, by the way. I said going into this season, I was like, they're going to put Markinen at the three just because they need shooting. they don't have a traditional three.

Okoro's too small. I thought you were going to say you called them being pretty okay with them at the No, no. I expected them to be a train wreck with that lineup. But yeah, you're right. I guess it's fine. Yeah, I mean, in the starting combinations, it works. When you start working in the bench guys, it very quickly does not.

And that probably says more about the bench than it is about Markinen. And really, to get to the heart of it, they got to get Kevin Love up out of here. Because I think that resolves a lot of the rotation issues in terms of of putting Markin in his natural position. Kevin Love is frankly a guy who in a lot of these games, if you never knew he was a star and you tuned in, you would think he absolutely never had any

of that in him. Just kind of like a work-a-day big man right now. He's like, Kyle Corver. You're just like, oh, they have Kyle Corver. That's where he is this season. Just out there ripping out from three, but I mean, bless him. I guess, man.

I have no sympathy for Kevin Love because he did this to himself. He signed the extension. He wanted the money and the cows wanted to give it to him just to make a big show of things. And like, this is what you get when you sign long term with the calves. I assume he'll end up on a different team by the end of the season. You know, like, he's probably going to be a Laker by the trade deadline. If only, like, via buyout.

I know that, like, his agent was, like, really holding his ground there. But, like, do the calves really need this guy lingering around as they're trying to turn the page and, like, invest in this youth movement? I don't know, man. Well, no, but I just don't think he's getting bought out. I think we're going to have to play a longer game than that, unfortunately. Yeah, I don't know. It worked with Blake Griffin.

Like, the pistons are still paying him a handsome sum. I could see them doing the same thing with love. But about the Cavs overall, like, what are you most encouraged by outside of maybe these marketing and bizarro small forward minutes? Well, we haven't talked about the single most important thing, which is... Jared Allen? Not Jared Allen. Jared Allen, as you would expect.

But I would say a person's unreasonable excitement about Evan Mobley is directly proportional to how much Cavaliers basketball they've consumed in the last week. He is the best kind of young player as a consumer, as a viewer of the game, because he's one who doesn't move like anybody else. Like very distinctive, very fluid, very interesting in terms of what his long-term potential could be. Great instincts as a shot blocker as a contestor of shots. man, he, like this guy, to the extent you can see defensive player of the year type potential in a rookie in his first couple games in the NBA, Evan Mobley has it. Take from that what you will.

Right. Yeah, I've already heard some Kevin Durant comps being thrown around here. What? Yeah, I don't know, man. But, I mean, I think Charks called this. Like, he had been saying this leading up into the draft. And, like, even as I was editing one of his pieces on the Cavs, And, like, his contention basically is, like, the Anthony Davis, Janus types are now, like, the model for the player that's the queen on the chessboard, right?

It's just so impossible to match up with these guys. And Mowgli is probably the closest example we've seen since that paradigm has kind of been established. I mean, I don't really know a ton about him, but when he plays, like, he seems like he could fill a bunch of holes. And on a team like this, where it's where it's so hard to fill holes that you're playing effectively a stretch five as your three, Uh, like that's impressive. He's definitely been impressive so far. Yeah, I mean, you don't want to be the queen on the chessboard when you have to make up for all the other pieces not doing their job, which is kind of what he's doing right now sometimes. He's the queen in the chess board when there's like just a bunch of checkers and like Tycho trucks also on the floor.

A couple backgammon pieces out there, whatever. Yeah. Uh, but overall, I think, you know, to his credit and to a lot of these rookies credit, this is turning out to be a pretty interesting class of first year players. And we haven't even seen Kate Cunningham yet. Like, Jalen Green looks pretty much on schedule. Like regularly does star-level stuff for a rookie guard, which is exciting. Scotty Barnes is obviously capturing the heart of two nations, really. You know, we already got in our Josh Giddy, obligatory Josh Giddy mention.

But even you have guys like Franz Wagner and Davian Mitchell who are like finding roles and doing interesting stuff. I'm very excited to see Davy on Mitchell all season long getting clips pulled of him locking up dudes defensively. And Mobley is a part of that brigade as a guy who is just imminently watchable, really interesting prospect. A guy who could change the future of what the calves are, frankly. Right. Are you high on any of these other guys that the calves are kind of investing here?

Like, are you a Garland believer? He's gotten a lot of preseason hype as someone who can maybe turn the corner there. I'm a mild Garland believer. I liked what I saw out of Isaac Akoro last season in terms of his defensive potential, offensively he's got a long way to go. But a natural athlete who took some pretty tough assignments and I think took them in stride.

So I'm probably more along those like those guys in Mobley are probably kind of my higher end. Sexton I think is fine. He's a guy who I ultimately have a hard time kind of placing within a high functioning NBA offense. I think he's a guy who can put up a lot of points and probably will for a long time

but maybe destined and doomed to do that for lesser teams potentially. We'll have to wait and see kind of what his his ultimate destiny is as a player. But I think there's enough here to feel mildly optimistic. And that's different than pre-Mopley, which was like, we have this glut of players,

they don't quite fit, what is this going to look like? Mowbly contextualizes a lot of that. And it's the power that having a two-way big can have, a guy who could be as flexible as him, as versatile as him, who isn't as locked into being a rim runner or someone like Jared Allen is potentially. I'm really kind of reconsidering how I think about the Cavs

in their future based on what we've seen from Mobley so far, which I realize that's probably crazy after three or four games but what is the beginning of the regular season four if not a little bit of craziness? Right. I appreciate that. Well, do you think Mobley could ultimately be the best player in this draft?

Is that like... Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Okay. He definitely could. But again, haven't seen Cade yet. Jalen Green has such a long runway into being very good. I don't want to, you know, make any final pronouncements just yet. But Mobley is

in that class, in that conversation of guys who could potentially lead this draft class. No, without a doubt in my mind. It would be pretty crazy if we've had back-to-back years where the third pick ultimately became the best player. And it really, like, I think the unfortunate takeaway, if we're saying about the Cavs,

is like if you're going to be bad, just like keep being bad until you land an absolute superstar because like a team like the magic maybe pulled up one year. and was like, oh, let's just grind our way into the eighth seed. And this is where they are back in this cycle for, we're getting close to a decade now, honestly.

Whereas the calves were just like, oh, Sexton's fine, Garland, okay, maybe has some upside. Mowgli, there we go. And it seems like their fate is different as a result of it. Real Sam Hinky vibes from you today. All about more bites at the Apple.

He would know, man. He's doing like history projects his entire life about like what succeeds in the NBA just for fun. And he was right. Everybody needs a hobby. It's true. And this isn't our hobby, man.

This is our job. And it is done for the day. We're going to punch our clocks. That's it for us. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely on the ones and the twos. Thank you to Bing Bongraub. We'll be back next week, hopefully with a healthy and hearty big wazzo. We'll see you next week.