The Ringer NBA Show - What’s the Point of an In-Season Tournament? | Heat Check

Episode Date: December 23, 2019

Instant Replay: The Denver Nuggets’ sneaky resurgence, a Siakam-less Raptors comeback, IT suspended because of … Frosties?, and Pop goes Pop on plus-minus (4:48). The Main Event: A bizarrely structured in-season tournament and other proposed schedule changes (21:47). Good Call/Bad Call: The Milwaukee Pro Wrestling Bucks, Romeo Langford heart-emoji Celine Dion, and Tacko Fall fever (31:28). Host: John Gonzalez Guests: Haley O’Shaughnessy, Dan Devine Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Ringer NBA show is presented by State Farm, just like basketball. The game of life is unpredictable. Talk to a state farm agent and get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected and help you handle whatever life throws your way. Like, for example, you're the Toronto Raptors. You're down 30 going into the fourth quarter. What do you do? You stage the biggest comeback in franchise history against, you know, wamp-bom.

Poor Dallas Mavericks. We're going to talk about that in just a second. Get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected. Talk to a state farm agent today. day about combining your home and auto insurance. And now, heat check. Welcome to heat check. I'm your host John Gonzalez. Normally I would be joined by our longtime producer who's just been here forever, Steve Alman. But instead we brought in a filling. Oh my God. A temp. Isaac Lee is back. How are you? I'm back. I did not expect this to be the treatment that I would have upon my triumphant return.

This is wonderful. I asked Santa for a special present and you came wrapped in Bow. Gons, you're in your 40s. You still talk to Santa? Of course I do. In fact, not only do I still talk to Santa, this is the honest to God's truth. We've completely gone off the rails already. Colleen and I took our dogs who are named Blitzen and Dasher. Okay. To the promenade mall in Santa Monica. Yes. To take pictures with Santa. Gons. This happened. I'm 42 years old. I don't know what to say. I kind of respect that in a certain way. I really like Christmas, which, by the way, be on the lookout for the ringer. favorite Christmas song story,

which is coming up any time now. Are you excited about that? You're a singer. Well, I'm an amateur singer. You're like half professional, I guess. Mostly professional. You do really wonderful work. I recommend you check out Isaac Lee's

various stuff on our Ringer YouTube channel. You're back on Heat Check. This is very excited. Yeah, Dear Baby Yoda, by the way, Jason Gallagher and I were texting last night. We're almost at a million views on YouTube. So if you guys want to give that a spin, you know, a little holiday spirit.

This is perfect synergy. It's right in the sweet spot between Ringer produced content and Star Wars, which we have tons of. Yes. You've been hanging out and doing a lot of binge mode stuff. Be sure to check out all of that. I want to thank you guys for listening to our program, a reminder to please rate and review us. And speaking of Ringer content, don't forget all the great NBA content that we have on the Ringer.com. Rob Mahoney, new staff writer where we have to have them on the show.

He wrote a piece about whether Kyle Kuzma fits in or out in L.A. Isaac, do you have an opinion on that? I forget. You haven't really been on the show in a while. Do you have a team that you like? I'm a fan of the Los Angeles Clippers as I am up. Yes, as I am from Los Angeles. I believe that Kyle Kuzma, or sorry, let me call him by his proper name.

Taller J.R. Smith does not fit in Los Angeles. Came back and hit the ground running on heat check. Zach Cramm's got a piece titled Milwaukee is so bucking good. Bang. Incredible. A room shot on that one. And this is not basketball, but I'm going to give a shout to Tyler Tynes, who wrote for our year end package,

Colin Kaepernick's exile feels like forever, always retines. He's really good. Coming up later in the show, we're going to discuss the proposed changes to the league schedule and the format and the latest reported twists on that, some new details emerging. But first, lots of stuff to review from the weekend. So let's get into the news from around the league

and bring in our regular contributors, Dan and Haley. Boom, Shaka. He's heating up. All right, one of them is joining me in studio. One of them is way across the country. He is not, however, in our NYCC, HQ. He's in the back bedroom of his in-laws house in Scenic Yorktown, New York, literally lounging in a barco lounger. It's he checked coast to coast with Haley and Dan. And for the two of you,

boy, do I have a surprise. Joining us, Steve is out. We have a new Steve who's here. His name is Isaac, I believe. Isaac Lee. Isaac Kay Lee is my name. Nice to meet you. The prodigal son has returned. Don't call it a comeback. Don't call it a comeback. He has been here for years. We got the band back together. This is very exciting. Yeah. I'm very excited about it. Yeah. I'm really attached to Steve. Oh, my God. Haley. Haley's really taken a shine to Steve. We'll see if you can work back into her good graces, Isaac Lee. Sure. It's not like she's been one of my oldest friends at this company. Nothing personal. We'll see what we can do. Can't wait to see if you got me for Christmas.

As the show continues, but first, let's review some headlines from around the league with NBA instant replay. All right, gang, so the Denver Nuggets, they go and they smack the Lakers in Los Angeles. LeBron James did not play according to Brian Winhorse and ESPN. He was not load managing. Dan, LeBron had an injury that you mentioned in our Slack that I don't remember. What was it? It was a like thoracic muscle stream, which I believe is in the side. And then they had like a nagging groin issue too.

So I guess he's been playing with a little bit dinged up for a little while. So injured, not load manager. Isaac, do you have an opinion on this on whether he was injured versus actually load managing? It would be poetically ironic if he was actually load managing, but it seems like it's an actual injury. Oh, you're believing that he's injured. Okay. He's the cash tag washed king. Okay, I was wondering how

you were going to throw shade at him and you figured out away. Proud of you. They've lost three straight the Lakers. The Denver Nuggets, on the other hand after a slow start and lots of hand-ringing by us have won six straight. They are now second in the West, Halee O'Shaughnessy. Were we wrong to discount or downplay them early in the season when they were off to a slowish start?

I remember myself saying that, you know, their defense was very good and their offense was kind of what was lagging this year, which was surprising because they have all these offensive weapons. So, no, I'm not surprised that it's coming along. However, I do think that they need some more stability on offense. Yes, and this is something this brings me in my next point, Dan. Nicola Yokic, he also got up to a slow start. There were a lot of people who questioned his conditioning and how he came into the season.

And now all of a sudden he's absolutely crushing it. He's the first center in NBA history to record at least five triple doubles in four consecutive seasons. Yokic had been tied with Will Chamberlain, who I understand from being in Philadelphia, it was very good. Now he's really killing it. But I wonder about what Haley was saying about. So you've got Nicola Yokic and you've got Jamal Murray. But could they maybe use some more top line talent? Because they're super deep.

But maybe they could use like maybe an extra guy. Yeah, but I think that's interesting because if unless you find sort of the perfect fit for that guy, you're going to tilt more one way than the other. So, you know, Kevin O'Connor had reported for us a couple weeks ago that they might be a Kevin Love team. And that's an interesting fit. You could do a lot on offense with him next to Nicola Yokic. But if you are building a deal around a big salary, like say, Paul Millsap, he's been a really important player for that defense that, as Haley noted, has been much better this season than a lot of people expected. So are you then going back to the days where the Nuggets were a team that could score 150 on somebody,

but we're going to give up 151. You know, I think that's kind of the concern for them. So that puts you in a position where you're thinking more of like, you do target a guy? You know, I know Haley's been big on the idea that Drew Holiday needs to be saved. Is he somebody that would make a lot of sense there? Haley, what do you think about that kind of matchup? Get some movement in your offense and get some scoring.

I like Jamal Murray, but I do think that he's still so young. Inconsistency is such a big part of his game. Last line against the Lakers, he went over six from three. He scored six points, I think on like 11 shots. Yeah. He's not going to be your consistent guy. Get a veteran like Drew Holiday.

It's interesting because they... And let him grow up. They are so deep, right? And that is their biggest strength. And yet it is potentially in the playoffs, as we saw last year, and we've seen with teams previously, could be potentially a detriment because in the playoffs, you're going to need certain people to take over. And last year, especially in that Spurs series, where they barely got out of the first round, it was Nicola Yokic looking around waiting for somebody else to help him. And there wasn't really that like second or third option for them. So we'll see what happens with the Denver Nuggets. But so far, so good for Denver, they're killing it. So far so good for

the Toronto Raptors. Holy hell, down 30 in the third quarter to the Dallas Mavericks. They came back to beat them. It was the largest comeback in franchise history. Kyle Lowry absolutely went off in the fourth quarter. Nick Nurse threw a full court press at the Mavericks and forced them into several turnovers because, of course, Nick Nurse did that.

He of the box and won, famous box and one in the playoffs. The Raptors have won five straight, Dan. They improved to 21 and 8. It seems like the more starters they lose, the better they play. Yeah, I mean, maybe we should have seen this coming. You know, for years in Toronto, the best lineups the Raptors could throw out, no matter who was around him was Kyle Lowry and four guys from the bench. So if you remove all other starters and everybody is a guy from the bench, you know,

all of a sudden Ronde Hollis Jefferson and Terrence Davis and Chris Boucher and everybody else wind up looking pretty damn good. And I think that's been really the encouraging thing for Toronto, the last handful of games during this winning streak. Lowry had been injured. He had a fracture in his thumb, comes back and he is crushing it right now. three points in the final 14 minutes of last night's game. He's taken like eight threes a game during this stretch. They need him to be a real generator of offense with Siakam out, with Gasol out. He's got to do a lot of the shock creating, and he's been fantastic since he's got back here.

Haley, I wasn't sure what to make of this team when fully healthy. Now we know when fully healthy they're going to be right there. But what did we miss? And I'm using the Royal We here about the Toronto Raptors because, yeah, they lost Kauai, but they're still obviously a very good team in super deep. Yeah, you know, I like to separate myself from everyone else's a picture. So it can be noted when I'm right and forgotten when I'm wrong. I think that last night's game is a perfect example of a contrast. The Mavs, and I'm not putting this against them, it's just for contrast purposes, lost aggression last night.

The Raptors are a team that has never lost aggression in all the games that I've seen them to play this season. That is the kind of players that they are. And even, I mean, you think of their one emerging star this year, Pascal Seaccom, he embodies that. Kyle Lowry embodies that. Dan, you were just talking about Kyle Lowry and four guys from the best, that's why they perform so well. It sounds like an easy answer, but they are always aggressive.

They're always aggressive. They're really good. I was wrong about the Toronto Raptors. They are currently, what, in fourth place as we record this, things are going really well for them. Everything's pointing up. Maybe not going as well what happened in Philadelphia. Isaiah Thomas, I'm sure you guys saw this. We talk a lot about these fan player interactions. This one was not great. So Isaiah Thomas ended up going into the stands to argue with two Philadelphia fans. all three of them, Isaiah Thomas and the two fans, were ejected from the game. So IT was asked about it after the game. He said, a fan gave him two middle fingers and said, fuck you bitch, three times.

And then as Isaiah confronted him, he said, why would you do that? And he said, the fan said to him, I'm sorry, I just wanted a frosty. Now, what happens is in Philadelphia in the fourth quarter, if an opposing player misses two consecutive free throws, everybody in the stands gets a frosty. I want to say a couple things about this. First, Frosties are delicious. Who doesn't like a Frosty? Second, stop being an asshole if you're in the stands.

A frozen fast food item that costs, I don't even know what it costs, like a buck 50 is not a reason for you, is not licensed for you to be an asshole in the stands. And I say this not just about Philadelphians who I love and part of their charm is being assholes, but for fans all over the league. Like, yes, you bought a ticket. It is your right, as I have said on this show to boo, Haley. I think you should boo. It is your God-given ability as a Philadelphia. However, there's like ways to comport yourself. And this is not the right way to comport yourself.

Yeah, no, I completely agree. And I hate that there's the rule that he automatically, that Isaiah Thomas automatically got a two-game suspension. I understand why it exists. But at the same time, what are we going to do if somebody comes in here and starts talking crazy like that? What if Tyler Tynes comes in here and says all that stuff? There's a high chance of Tyler Tynes coming in here talking crazy.

That's why I use his name. So we're not supposed to like approach him. It's just I understand why it exists. to keep everyone in check. At the same time, I always feel sorry for the players in this instance because they're just defending themselves.

Yeah, it's a weird situation. So IT got suspended for two games. It's going to cost them 32K. The NBA statement was, to Cahili's point about, it's a bummer. NBA rules state that any player who deliberately enters the spectator stands during a game will be automatically ejected

and subject to a fine and or suspension. In terms of discipline for the fans, the 76ers had banned the fans who were involved from the arena for one. year, which means not just no basketball games, no hockey games, no concerts, nothing. And also, so it turns out that the two guys who were in the seats don't own the seats, the season ticket holder who had those seats, had them revoked for the year and is getting them

refunded. So some people thought on Twitter that it was, that this guy sold them on Stubhub and was like, hey, how can you possibly know who's going to buy your tickets? I reached out to the organization and people over there told me that they believe that it wasn't sold on Stubhub, that the season ticket holder had given them to these two frosty knuckleheads. And these two knuckleheads were being aggressive. So, Dan, where do you land on both IT being suspended for two games, costing him 32,000? And then also these two guys being banned from the arena for the year.

Well, I like, if we're sort of trying to both sides things, I like that I've been set out to be the guy who's pro saying, fuck you bitch three times of somebody. Yeah, you love overly aggressive fan behavior. I'm a big fan of cursing. I'm a big fan of saying mean things to people. No, yeah, I mean, I'm not shedding any tears for the guys who got thrown out and are now banned for a year. I think it's a little bit much that the guy who gave his buddies the seats gets them revoked for a year. But also, you know, if you have buddies that are assholes, this might happen and you might, you know, maybe rethink you the way you would be interacting with those assholes.

The Isaiah Thomas thing is tough because you get why that exists, right? Malice and the palace happened. And there have been instances where, you know, the league, wants to make sure they have nothing to do with anything like that in the future. This was very clearly not that. It was Isaiah Thomas very calmly walking up and talking in like a measured tone to somebody. But still, you know, you understand why that existed. I think it's a tough beat for Isaiah Thomas. But I think the rule is there for a pretty legitimate reason.

If you have buddies who are assholes in Philadelphia, high chance of that. All of my friends from Philadelphia are assholes. As I said, that's part of their charm. All right, moving along to some other news here, the Dallas Mavericks before they ended up coughing up that lead to the Toronto Raptors. They were rolling. They were rolling without Luca. They beat the Sixers on the road. KP had a career high 18 rebounds. And that looks like Luca is almost ready to return here, gang. According to ESPN, he is set to practice on Tuesday. He could play on Thursday. Haley, good news for the Dallas Mavericks. Yeah, of course. I mean,

what I was saying before about what they don't have that the Raptors have can be made up by Luca coming back. Luca does a lot. He is the leader. He's very good. Unquestionably the leader. Yeah. I would say he's a pretty good player. Unquestionably the leader. He was very good. Before he went down, he'll be very good when he comes back. Dan, as our resident fashionista here, I wanted to throw this past you. He's just a good-looking man, everybody.

There's a report that Luca might sign with Jordan. He normally wears Kobe's. I'm a big Jordan fan myself. I'm sure that this was on your radar. Oh, yeah. I mean, as somebody who's constantly paying attention to what sneakers people are and are not wearing, this was a big news for me. My understanding is that Luca might have signed with Jordan,

specifically out of a denim affinity, like they have the same kind of taste in jeans. I'm not really sure if that's true or not, but that's my understanding. Sure. So if that's the case, like, listen, I mean, you know, salute to all of your stonewashed and other sorts of washed endeavors. I look forward to seeing what the kicks look like, the signatures. The full-on denim outfit, that's going to be the whole bit. It's going to be great.

Isaac, you're wearing some denim. I know you're a sneaker head as well. You're excited about Luca potentially signing with Jordan? I'm excited for Luca doing anything, to be honest. At this point, that's my guy. You should just text him, congratulations. because you guys are tight. You have sleepovers. Right. No, I have not been

invited to a Luca don't chish suare yet. But if I ever do see him in these streets, I'm going to dab him up. I'm sure that he'd be thrilled to see you guys, especially after Hala Luka. Be sure to check that out too. All right, other things that happened in Texas that I wanted to run past you guys, Pop did his pop thing. So he was asked

about plus minus, and he had a delightful Greg Popovich response, whereby he called single game plus minus a hoax and an analytical fantasy. He mentioned that Patty Mills had had a game where he had a gazillion points and no turnovers and was yet a minus in double figures and it really rubbed in the wrong way. Here's the quote that he gave.

He said, I always felt it kind of got snuck in on us. One year we came in and all of a sudden one, it was on the stat sheet. There it was plus minus. Nobody said anything. Nobody asked anybody as far as I know. That's a horrible thing for players because they look at it and they wonder why. My plus has been a lot better than that guy. Why am I not playing?

It's a coach's nightmare. It's an analytical fantasy. let you chew on that for a while. Dan, as our resident numbers nerd, defend yourself. Okay, so Pop has a point insofar as relying on single game plus minus to say, well, this guy was plus 10. That means he's better than that guy that was minus six. That's not necessarily true because that stat doesn't account for who else is on the

floor, game context, what the lineups, the other team was playing, all sorts of stuff like that. Now, over the course of a full season or over the course of multiple, seasons, if you are minus a gazillion over like two years, maybe you suck. And if you're plus a thousand in, you know, a five game stretch, maybe you're doing some pretty good stuff on the floor. Then there's other ways to regularize it out and to average it out over who you play with and yada, yada, yeah, yeah. There's various advanced versions of plus minus that can tell you a lot about how a player is contributing or taken away from his team. Whether it's an analytical fantasy, I don't know, I love that phrase, analytical fantasy. I kind of want Zach Kramm

to put out an album called analytical fantasy. That would be great. My beautiful, dark twisted, analytical fantasy. That's exactly right. Zach, get in the lab over the course of your holiday break and come back with us in the new year and let's get fresh. Pop has always been pretty reluctant to embrace a lot of this stuff. Like, he's still arguing for why the three-pointer has ruined the game, even as the spurs kind of like circle the drain offensively. They've been ahead of the curve on a lot of things, but they're also been, you know, he's pretty touchy about some stuff. So I understand where pop's coming from, but I think he also might need to lighten up a little bit.

Haley, wrap this up for us as our resident cool person, but also as our resident smart person. I'm getting killed here today. I'm getting roasted out here. Did Pop get this right in shouting down the nerds? You know what? I'm also going to say to Dan's point, yes, Pop is old school, but Danny Aange also called this a worthless stat two years ago. And I also want to say that, of course, I'm not a super big fan of advanced analytics when I feel like they're getting in the way. And also analytical fantasy sounds like blogging and sports writers fan fiction, which is delightfully nerdy. So I'm really glad that he dunked on everyone by saying that. Dunked on everybody. All right, that was NBA instant replay before we go to the main event.

Let's take a quick break and do our custom segment with the Google Assistant. Let's have a two-minute debate on who each of us thinks will win the NBA championship this year. Isaac, hey Google, set a timer for two minutes. Okay, two minutes. And that's starting now. All right, Isaac, you and I have not really ever talked basketball before. I don't know which team you like. Uh-huh.

Sure. So do tell me who do you think will win the NBA championship this year? I am fairly confident that the Los Angeles Clippers. The Clippers. The Clippers of Los Angeles are going to win the championship this year. I don't know if I just jinxed that for us or if I have to knock on some wood somewhere. Kawhi, Paul George. Yeah, I mean, it's a very well-round.

the roster, it is filled with a lot of good redundancies. They're good and bad redundancies. I think there is a lot of wing depth on the roster. And I really believe that they have a chance. They have a good chance this year. Now, there are, there are two teams in Los Angeles. Correct me if I'm wrong. You don't like the other team. No, not at all. I don't recognize them as, uh, even though they are the predominant team of Los Angeles. I do not actually acknowledge them. Amazing that you don't like the Lakers that you do like the Cleppers. That's a bold prediction by you. I like that you're going with the clippers. It's incorrect, however. Okay. What you need to be doing is focusing on a team in the east, and it is not, as Zach

Kramm wrote about the Milwaukee Bucks who are so buck and good. They are good. However, the playoffs, as we know, different animal. Of course. You need a team that's built for the postseason. Sure. You need a team that's big and beefy, right. Thick with two seas. Yeah, with the point guard who can shoot, presumably. Well, that's overrated, frankly. A team that's built to play defense. Okay. And that would be your Philadelphia's 76ers. Oh, wow. Okay. I know that this. Would never have. have expected this from John Gonzalez. We're learning things about each other.

I have decided to pick the Philadelphia 76ers to win the NBA championship. It feels like they're due. Oh, sure. I mean, when was their last championship with Moses Malone in the... 1983, which was very recent. Yeah, very, very recent. Only 11 years before I was born. I was going to say how many years before you were born?

Negative 11. You did the math for me. But I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful that despite the fact that they've had struggles recently as we talked about in headlines, despite the fact that you disparaged their point guard, Ben Simmons, who had to be hid last year in the playoffs on the baseline in the dunker spot. I think Brett Brown's going to coach him up.

Okay. He's hit, what, two threes this year? It's so far. Two more than before. So that's called progress. I guess improvement, baby steps. All right, that was the Google Assistant segment. Let's go to the main event.

So as first reported by Wojj, and as we've discussed here on the He-check program, some potential alterations to the league format and schedule. The NBA is discussing a $1 million per player purse for the winners of the proposed 30 team in season tournament for the 2021-2020 schedule. Now, in order to enact this Haley, the NBA would need two-thirds of owners to approve. So 23 votes at the Board of Governors meeting in April. There are some other things that have been proposed, like having the seven and eight seats play in,

and then receding the final four based on the regular season record. We'll get to those in a second. Those seem to be less hotly contested than this proposed in-season. tournament. Now, part of the schedule, part of the regular season schedule, would go towards this mid-season tournament. So it's not like teams would be playing more games. In fact, the proposal would be that teams, most teams would play 78 or 79 games. There's a scenario, however unlikely, that a team could potentially play 83 games. But this idea of incentivizing players to play in this tournament by giving them a million dollars per player, is that interesting?

Do you think it's enough motivation? Do we like this? Okay, the average player makes 9 million. dollars. So unfortunately, I wish this was a thing for WMBA players because then it would really matter, but just like in the context of their regular salaries, it doesn't really matter. I'm all for changes and I'm all for reducing the schedule. And if it's only three games at first, great, then it's only three games. But I don't think that this tournament is weird enough to matter or to make it interesting. Right now, it feels like a gimmick.

And gimmicks don't work in the NBA. All Star has gotten so unpopular because everything about it has become a stunt. They're going about this all wrong. I think you're right that it's not weird enough. The way that it would work is it would start in mid-November and run through December. Divisional games, four home and four-away would be used for the, quote, group stage. And then there'd be six divisional winners plus two wild cards for the knockout round. And then the quarterfinals would be at the home market.

Semifinals and finals would be at a neutral site. Dan Devine, there's been some talk here about a lot of players, to Haley's point about the average player making $9 million, just preferring to take that time off, which is kind of wild to me, rather than competing for a million dollars per player. That's basically Dan Devine money. Would you be resting or trying to grab another million on top of the millions that you already make here at the ringer? If I was the kind of player who was expecting to be a playing until June,

I would say I could give a shit about this million dollars because I am probably already making 15 or 20 or more than that. And I know I have like seven months of competitive basketball ahead of me. I mean, I get the idea. Cash cup is something that it is a simple idea that you can make compelling Jason Concepcion and the NBA desktop guys had sort of talked about this as an idea. But it needs to be like way more cash in this. We need like Petro dollars. Like get some oligarchs in here and funneling money into it.

And maybe that's kind of what we'll jack it up. But this seems like you're trying to tweak something and you're trying to put something to it. But you're not going, you're not opening up the piggy bank enough and you're not going. I think Haley's right. This is like, let's complicate. everything with less reason for there to be investment in it from anybody's perspective. I don't get why anyone gives a shit about this at all yet. And to your point about the purse, if you're like the Miami Heat and you're Kendrick Nunn and that money matters to you, Jimmy Butler's is going to be like,

dude, I'll give you $2 million, but we need you. I don't need you to play these extra games. I'll give you two million dollars to skip it. I like that you're spending Jimmy Butler's money here. I was going to say, I don't think Jimmy Butler's giving away that money. I think Jimmy Butler's like, I'll play you and I'll play you for it. I'll play you. Feltler has a bet right now with BAM. Didn't we talk about this last week? We did. Thank you for listening to He Check.

It's my favorite podcast. He will give away that money. He will give away that money. All he wants to do is win. Isaac Lee, you and I don't know each other very well. I think you're a basketball fan. Sure. Third time we've done this bit today, by the way.

We might do it more. There's still some show left. As a basketball fan, do you look at this and go, oh, it's exciting for me to maybe watch a team that I like, potentially win a million dollars each? No, not at all. There's no incentive for fans to even root for it other than the entertainment of watching basketball,

which, by the way, we're in the regular season. There's basketball on all the time. Yeah, I'm not sure to Dan's point here, like about making this interesting and maybe making it more complicated than it already is. Like, I've looked at this a lot, and I'm still not sure, like, functionally, in mid-November to December,

if they're going to use regular season games to count toward this quote-unquote tournament, how is that different than just having the schedule being played? Like, Dan's just like, yeah, that's my point. Exactly. You're making my point. Yeah, I know this is an idea that's gone back for years and years and years. So it's not just a response to the recent ratings downturn or any of that stuff, but it feels like they're really grasping at how do we make the first two months of the season

or like a month and a half into the season compelling to people who know that nothing really matters until April. And that's a hard sell. And I don't think this is going to do that. So I think if you're talking about how do you make it compelling for fans, I don't buy that this is going to do it. If you're talking about what's a compelling reason for the owners to get on board for this, there's that big question of, is this going to generate enough money to at least up break us even when you're losing three or four games or is it going to make more money for us? And I don't think anybody's made a compelling argument that that's going to happen. And for players, a million dollars is awesome. But you know what's cool is all the money that they fucking already

make and they're going to continue making throughout the postseason. So like somebody has to explain to me why this matters. I've yet to hear a single argument besides it's good to do different shit sometimes. I don't understand why this different shit matters. I love when Dan gets worked up. The hand motions, everything is wonderful. Okay, but guys, it's the holidays. Let's get positive.

All right. Okay, just for a second. There is a reason to think about a tournament. Ask any soccer fan in your life. These tournaments are very fun, but the NBA is not getting creative enough. Nobody cares because these guys are already competing against each other all the time. I'm telling you, I don't know if it has to be against regular teams or some variation of that, but get the EuroLeague in here.

Get the G League in here. That is how you make this fun. Euroleague. It can't be limited to NBA teams. Euroleague would be fun. G League would be fun. WNBA would be fun. Get weird.

I'm telling you. Do a three on three tournament. Big three. Right now it's just not working. We've already just come up with more exciting and interesting things. I will, however, say, and previously, we mentioned this on He-check, my big hope had been that they would reduce the regular season schedule by, say, 10 games, right? Like, go to 72 or something like that. Now we're talking about something that is good for everybody across the board.

Except the owners. Right. The owners won't go for this. And maybe the players wouldn't either because it would be a potential reduction in funds. But it's just such a long grind of a season. And you're getting players who are load managing anyway. And again, as I've mentioned previously, like the dog days of March suck. They suck for the fans.

They suck for the players. They suck for the coaches. Just reduce it a little bit. I do, however, and I want to talk about to Haley's point about being positive here, it is the holidays. I do like these other ideas. I do like the idea of having the seven and eight seed in the nine and ten play in. Let's start there. Okay.

Explain that to me. They're going to play in. Like the wolves and the nuggets to years. Have you seen the major league baseball or the, uh, National Football League. Okay. This is how it works. Baseball, bro,

definitely not. Football, yes. Okay, I understand. But what I wanted you to say was to compare it to two years ago. The Wolves and the Nuggets was the most fun game of the season for either one.

That was amazing. This is the way that you up the ANSI for everyone. This is the playoffs. It's not some mid-season tournament where you're getting a million dollars. The stakes are literally the stakes for the entire reason we play this game,

which is get into the playoffs to win the championship. Can I just applaud you for a second? because you wanted me to explain it. You explained it yourself. You got to give yourself some more credit. You did a great job there, Haley. I don't stop asking men to do a women's job. Please, well, actually, me and tell me in the future.

And you're right, because a couple of years ago I covered when the nuggets and the trailblazers were coming down to the wire. And those two had played in Portland, basically towards the end of the season. Yeah, for that eight seat, it was super, super exciting. Dan, also, I also like the receding idea for the final. based on the regular season record, regardless of conference, I think this is a good start. I don't know. I think so. I mean, again, this is one of those things where I feel like I need compelling evidence that that would matter over a longer period of time. Sometimes that means, yeah, instead of Warriors Rockets being a semi-final, it's a final, and I get that. But a lot of times,

I don't know that I would look for the teams in the same conference to be a more compelling matchup than one from East, one from West. I don't, like, would you rather have had the Western Conference finals last year than Raptors Warriors? And I, you know, I, I, I don't know. I don't know if I would have wanted that. I think I'm more on board for this than I am for the tournament, but I feel like I'm still not convinced on this. Maybe I am as like old man shaking fist at cloud.

I kind of feel like once you get to the playoffs, the playoffs are pretty fucking cool. I don't know that I need a whole lot different in that, but this one, generally speaking, I'm more on board for this one, I think. They're trying, but I'm with Dan on the whole that they're not quite there, especially not with the tournament. But we'll see. Maybe it'll get voted down and they'll come up with some new proposal. All right, that was the main event.

let's go to everybody's favorite segment that we haven't done with one Isaac Lee in a little bit. It's time for good call, bad call. What a bold call here. All right, first one for you guys. Have you guys seen this, Haley? We start with Haley always. The Bucks do this bit pregame in the hallways where they act like they're pro wrestlers and they beat the shit out of each other. And then like they try to pin one guy down for the three count and the whole bit.

I suspect that Robin Lopez was the originator of this. I don't know that for sure. But this feels like his kind of thing. good call or bad call with them going full WWE before game. I love fighting. Last night I was watching YouTube videos of professional cyclists fighting each other off the bikes. It's so fucking cool. So good call.

There's a lot to unpack there. They like us to keep this show short and quick. I want to do like 20 minutes on you watching YouTube videos of dudes fighting each other. I'm sorry. Did you say fighting each other off bikes? They're pro cyclists. Yeah. Amazing.

The YouTube habits of one Haley O'Shaughnessy coming to a heat check podcast near you soon. Dan Devine, you're a wrestling fan. What say you? I say I really want to learn more about Haley in the dark watching YouTube videos of people fighting, like eating beans out of a can or whatever the fuck that looks like. That sounds phenomenal to me. I'm on board for it, but I feel like as long as nobody's getting like, you know, the people's elbowed and winds up breaking a clavicle or something like that.

Imagine the headlines that would come out if it was like, yeah, they were just roughhousing a little bit. It's like you're fighting your brother on a bed. You're going to power bomb on the couch. And then all of a sudden, Wesley Matthews is out for the season. Like, keep it fun, keep it safe, everybody. But yes, of course, wrestling is wonderful. And now everything is wrestling. So why not? Keep it fun. Keep it safe. Isaac Lee, for this segment, just to explain it to you, it's called Good Call, Bad Call. I mean, you said, you asked me if we're going to keep doing the So what I want you to do here is the side is that a GC or BC, good call or a bad call, that they do this.

You're acting like I didn't originate this segment with you guys. This is an extremely bad call, in my opinion. You guys are pro basketball players. Don't be even remotely approaching a scenario in which you could get injured. Like, your body is your job. So, like, don't put that in danger. Oh, God. I'm also a pacifist.

I'm not like Haley Bro. Shaughnessy, who's very pro-violence. Isaac Lee, with the very stayed take here, good call for me. This is just good fun. You hate fun. I like fun. No, no, no, no. I'm pro-fun. Isaac is anti-fund.

This is how we... I hate violence. This is how we fall. World peace, guys. These are the dividing lines. To Boston we go, Romeo Langford, there's a mass live story about how coaches and teammates drive him everywhere because he doesn't have a driver's license, but that's not what I wanted to bring up here. Haley, a detail in this story that I think some people might have skipped over. One of Romeo Langford's pre-game routines, his ritual, is to listen to Celine Dionne.

Good call or bad call. Romeo Langford, New Albany High School's own, which is just across the river from Louisville, Kentucky. Look at that. Should be treated like a king in all aspects, the power of love in Louisville. Good call. Good call. Dan Devine, you noted resident Celine Dion fan. Apparently, he committed to Indiana with My Heart Will Go On, the song from Titanic.

So this is an ongoing bit. I love it. Listen, man, whatever gets you pumped up. If the Canadian Shantus is what gets you there, Romeo, Langell. Langford, go for it. Isaac Lee, you're the closest thing we have on this program to a musician. Basically, you played in Vegas, just like Celine Dion had a big show on Vegas on the strip. You and your ice-to-ice cohort, Jason Gallagher are playing the Vegas strip.

You're a big musician. What say you about this? None of what you said is true. But I'm very pro getting in touch with their feelings. And what better way to get in touch with their feelings than Celine Dion, the Queen of Canada? Good call from you. Great call. Isaac, I know you're new to the show.

show, but we try to yes end the bits. Yes. Go see Isaac on the Vegas strip. It's an amazing ticket. To each his own. You want to listen to Celine Dion? Listen to Celine Dion. That's a good call for me. Another one from Boston. Brad Stevens put in Taco Fall. Taco played in the home blowout versus the Pistons. The crowd was chanting

for him. Now, this is what I want to ask you about, Haley. Brad's daughter, Kinsley, told Brad it's time to give the people what they want. In other words, put Taco in, and he did. Good call, bad call, listening to his daughter. Good call. Women are always right. They know what they're talking about.

Every single time, they're right. Dan Devine as the father of daughters. Good call, bad call. As a father of daughters, I want to say. Of course, of course. Taco Fall is an entity unto himself. He's apparently conducting the Boston Pops tonight. I got a press release about that seven hours ago.

So Taco fever is spreading all throughout the Boston area. Get yourself checked. Get a flu shot. But yeah, you got to listen to your daughters, do the right things unless they're wrong, in which case you don't listen to them. And you say, Chavon, you can't do that.

Just generally. I mean, nothing specific here. You're spitballing, hypothetically. Hypothetically, like, if you had a daughter named Chavon and she was just really wanted to rock a chair into a wall over and over again, you would just say, like, no, you can't do that. You have to stop it. Dad's on his last wit here is what's end. Dad has to go record a podcast in a back bedroom real quick. Hypothetically.

Isaac Lee, good call, bad call. I mean, this is a good call, but let me just throw in one other thing here. I don't know if you saw the video that Polly Getty posted yesterday, but. Tommy Hineson pronounced Taco Falls name as Taco. Nice. Taco Fall. Sure. I don't know what that rhymes with.

There's nothing that rhymes with. Taco rhymes with taco. So I feel like that's a bad call by Tommy Hineson by not pronouncing his name correctly. Tommy Hineson has been on the mic for 150 years. So the fact that he's still out there doing it, God bless Tommy Hineson. Initially, I was going to be bad call on this because we don't go in for nepotism here at the ringer. and Brad Stevens just like giving into his daughter. What are you doing here?

But then once you mention the Boston Pops, Dan Devine, now I'm in. Now it's good call because I love any kind of pop, Boston Pop, Philly Pop, I'm in. Did you guys know that I can do a Tommy Hinson impersonation really well? Well, now you have to. You have to do it. Right. No, you got to get me drunk first. I feel like in front of a microphone, you have to do it.

I'm not doing it. I've got to leave something. Oh, what a teaser. Chuck Off's teaser. Seriously. That's unfortunate. All right. It's really good.

Last one. And this is just for Dan and Haley, Isaac, you're out. Good call or bad call on the performance of one rookie Isaac Lee filling in for veteran Steve Alman. Is he not two-way contract? Who is that? We'll find out. That's a bad call from Haley, Dan Devine.

What do you think? So-so. I'm going to go with good call. I think this kid's got a lot of promise. I want to hear him singing at some point to really feel like to know where I land on him, but I like it. I'm going to go a good call too. I think a couple of more reps. Yeah, yeah, a couple more.

Get the rest off. he'll be okay. I want to thank rookie Isaac Lee filling in. We'll call him New Steve. New Steve. Filling in for the old Steve. Isaacley, well done by you. Dan Devine, thank you so much. Haley O'Shaughnessy. And thank all of you. Please rate and review

us. If you would be so inclined, please read all of our content on the ringer.com. Listen to the ringer NBA show on the ringer podcast network. Heat check will be back next week. And we just want to say to all of you out there, happy holidays. Thanks for doing this. Seriously, we really appreciate you guys listening to us. That means a

ton and we'll be back next week. Bye.