The Ringer NBA Show - When Will the Thunder Start To Roll? with Tyler Parker | The Answer

Episode Date: May 20, 2022

Chris is joined by the Ringer's own Tyler Parker and they start their discussion by sharing their takes on the first couple of games of the Celtics-Heat series and Jimmy Butler's relationship with coach Erik Spoelstra and the culture in Miami. They then talk about Patrick Beverly's appearance on First Take and Draymond Green's post-game podcasts while also taking a macro look at this year's NBA playoffs in general.(19:53) They end the pod by analyzing the state of the Oklahoma City Thunder's "process" and speculate on what the future holds for the team.(31:01) Host: Chris Ryan Guest: Tyler Parker Producer: Chris Sutton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Bill Simmons. We're not just reacting to the NBA playoffs on my podcast. We're also doing it on the Ringer NBA show and the Mismatch podcast. They are coming after some of these NBA playoff games. Check it out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday nights on the Ringer podcast Network. Hello, welcome to the Ringer NBA show. It's the answer. I'm Chris Ryan and I'm joined not as always by Sir Ritz-Ohi, who's out today, but by Tyler Parker. What's up, man? What's up, buddy? Thanks for having me, man. Tyler is a Ringer staff. writer now. You may know him from some glorious YouTube videos we made in the years past, like Take Hunter and Coach T and Wake Up and Dunkett. Still waiting on that Wake Up and Dunkett sequel. But Tyler, it's great to have you on board officially. Thank you for joining me today on the pod. We're going to talk a little bit about the piece you wrote earlier in the week after the lottery with the Thunder landing, the second pick and where you are with the Thunder process versus where I'm at with the Sixers process and whether it's sometimes better to be in a

permanent dress rehearsal than it is to fucking fall flat on your face on the biggest stage. But before we get to that, I thought we could talk a little Celtics heat. That was last night and just playoffs in general, man. Salta just came out and really bodied up. You can recalc on the game. And I thought it was like a really great breakdown of what happened. But it was essentially like they had Marcus Smart back. And Marcus Smart got after Jimmy a little bit.

And also like the shots were falling, which is kind of like the story of this whole playoffs. It seems like it's just like real. make or miss playoffs and a barrage of threes and then you're like damn shit got out of control what did you what did you see last night yeah i mean it's just like the like marcus smart extravagance it's just a real pelosa for him it's just weird he was such a problematic player for them over the years and like i feel like i've been i have archives of group chats yeah like bill and rsolo would just be like jesus christ no and then you get to this point and you're just like oh this guy's going to like turn the entire playoffs for them. I hate like terms like this and like dudes to talk like this,

but he is a gamer. You know what I mean? Like it just kind of is. And they needed that. I mean, they did kind of get a little big boy in that third quarter in game one. I mean, that was like a, you know, that was a, Jimmy Butler, you know, kind of took his shirt off and sat down the middle of the road and it's like, all right, you don't drive up, let's say. So is this like Jimmy Butler takes his shirt off, sits in the middle of the road and is daring the Celtics to run him over? I know. I think he's like, I'm here. I'm ready to fight. I'll just be, I'll just be sitting here. If you guys want to come up, come up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was something very, even when he, I forget who it was. Or, you know, Neath Smith had that little push there, maybe in the third two. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He had that big block and then he was like really, really amped up and then came back down. And then maybe he had a block on the break too. Jimmy got the rebound and gave him a little old man. and, you know, eyebrow fake, knee Smith, you know, fouled him. And then you could see Jimmy kind of give him a little squint eye like, you know, you think you're doing something right now. Like Butler was really feeling himself in that third quarter in a big way. And yeah, I mean, I guess it is just simple, but yeah, their ability to just switch and not really have to worry when you've got Brown and Tatum and Smart out there.

And, I mean, Horford Williams, it doesn't really matter. It just makes such a difference when they can't, when they're not able to pick on Pritchard like that. Like it's it's just such a such a big deal. Yeah, I want to say something just like Udoca is like definitely whispering something into these guys's ears. Because I do feel like one of the things that the Celtics have, which is why they've gotten this far as they just don't play two bad games in a row. I mean, I'm sure you could prove me wrong. And it just feels like since the All Star break, they just don't slip for extended periods of time.

And he obviously like, it's like we can just use all the cliches we want like accountability or toughness or. whatever, but like right now they are hearing his message, like on a, on a major level because like I felt like game one was a little bit of a schedule loss for Boston. They're coming like 48 hours after like a pretty draining series against Janus. So they have to go down to Miami and play a team that's pretty well rested that like is probably really like understands what they want to do and has probably been scouting both of those, the Milwaukee and the Celtics team and like had like a little bit of a head start there. Right. And they played their game. But man, like he seems like you really, really, really challenged those guys.

Like, if you're going to lose, lose physical. If you're going to lose, like, lose the way that we've been playing this whole second half of the season and they did not lose. He's got a presence and it's just, it can't be an accident that they play defense like that hard, that physically, that consistently. Like, that's not something that you stumble into and that kind of defense does that, that, that defense doesn't travel in game two of the Easter Commerce Finals unless it's really, really. I mean, it does just sort of expose the lack of shot creation that Miami's got

outside of Butler and, you know, Hero. Oladipo's trying. And, you know, when Bam can get it going, it's nice, but, you know, what, last night he had six, I think. When the soldiers were playing defense like that, it became very clear how hard it is for Miami to get easy shots sometimes. Like, if Butler doesn't have it going, if Heroes off, like it can get, it can get a little sticky. When the Sixers were playing the heat, it was just like all the games that Miami won were you could tell Butler was getting to his little spots, like his spot like right off the elbow. He was getting into that part of the floor where he can go for the rim and look for contact. He can kick out for a three or he can just wet the mid-garious jumper. And if he's getting to that

spot and he's comfortable, you're going to really have a hard time beating Miami, especially the way, like the way he's seeing the rim right now. But yeah, like they may. that spot radioactive. Like he could get there, but if he was there, he was like pointed diagonally. Or like, you know,

it was like he was trying to pass out of three dudes or he was trying to go over Rob Williams. Like it was just never, never, never like right there. This has been like a weird series to watch because there are sometimes where you're like,

a team beats the team that you cheer for and you're like, salute. Like I'm cheering for you guys going forward. I don't feel that way about Miami. But on the other hand, I don't feel that way about Boston. Yeah.

So like I don't really know what I'm like, it's, range. Like, I still have pretty, like, a lot of, like, watching basketball is grounded in rooting interest for me. And I often will create narratives for myself about, like, why I'm cheering for one team or another that don't really make a lot of sense and often infuriate my friends. But are you like that, like, where you can, or can you just watch things like completely aesthetically and, like, analytically? Um, not, I mean, some games, but no, I mean, I let my fan passed into the mix a lot whenever I'm watching this stuff, way more than I probably

should, right? I mean, at no point, for instance, during any of Pat Bev's nonsense, was I at all like, oh, this is cool, awesome. This is great. I'm loving. You know what I mean? Like, it was too much. But I'm a Thunderfan obviously. So it's too much history there. Right? Like, I can't, I can't even like, even when it is funny, I can't get on board. I mean, what's your, like, the whole Butler thing's got to be so weird. Him doing that stuff with Embed at the end of the series and stuff too. Like, there's actually, like I would say a majority of Sixers fans are probably like this was the biggest mistake we've made is getting is letting Butler go in hindsight it's like Tobias is like a serviceable player who's getting probably like within the like realm of the cap like overpaid. So like Tobias Harris is getting congratulations to him for his financial security. But like in terms of like his production is maybe not like that level. Right. And Ben is Ben and we saw how that ended. And then what you get back. in return for Ben Simmons is James Harden. So ultimately, if you could have just unwound all that crap and, like, had Jimmy Butler

and Joel Embed and then just try to piece things around those two guys, like, you probably would have just been way better off. I personally think that it's like a little, like, rewriting history to be like, Jimmy Butler, like would have died for Philly, but we sent him packing to Florida. Like, I agree. I think it was a little bit different than that. And also, like, you also would have had to definitely fire the coach, which they did anyway. but Brett Brown, even though there's rumors that I guess there's some reporting that says Brett

out would have welcomed Butler back. I think it's just like Butler needs to isn't the perfect place for Butler. Right. Like the fact that there was an on court near brawl between a head coach and its team's best player and the team's living history in Eudanus was like, I will take you to the back and beat your ass. And then those guys were over that in 24 hours. Now, part of that that is because maybe Miami isn't under the same microscope that like the Lakers are. I think if the Lakers had a fight like that, we'd still be doing oral histories on it. But somehow we've just been like heat culture, baby, that's what happens. You guys hold the people so accountable. You almost break them in half. Father has found the place, the one place where he can't be like, I'm going to

scrimmage with Vincent and Struz and bury everybody or I'm going to get a coach fired or I'm going to go like talk to Rachel Nichols and and up end this entire season like you can't do that in Miami apparently that's such a good point I mean there was there was a bigger to do made about all the Miami machismo after the yokech shuffle whenever you can see like and you can see there's that picture of like the security guard for either the nuggets or the heater whoever trying to like keep some of the heat guys back in the yeah or whatever and and and I I remember, obviously, Yokic and Morris, all that, that was a big topic of discussion for a minute. And you're right that the, the fight.

Well, I think it was worth, like, it was worth talking about for sure when people did. But yeah, man, I don't, I think Butler's just, that guy's pretty comfortable with conflict. Yeah. I think he's able to compartmentalize a lot of stuff. And Spelster's obviously, like, so impressive, not just as an ex as a nose guy, but just in his ability to be able to handle these kind of personalities and stuff like that going back to all the lebron wade bosh stuff like all that you're having to juggle like that that's he's he's he's super duper impressive that dude has had like one of the greatest teams ever assembled or at least like the

greatest top end of a team ever assembled in bosh wade and lebron like at their best right and managed whatever their run was where they won like 22 in a row and like just they were incredible he uh has faced adversity at every level of the game from the regular season through the playoffs, through the finals with the Ray Allen shot. Like he has seen pretty much anything you can see on a basketball court. Then he was pretty good with basically the suicide squad when it was like Hassan and waiters and all those guys. That's right.

Philly cheese. Yeah. And now they have rebuilt this like team kind of into like a hybrid of like top end players like Jimmy, Kyle, and Bam, out of bio. And then, like, a lot of, like, late round finds, unsigned dudes, scrap heap guys and veterans.

And, like, he's, like, remade this team aesthetically, like, several times. And he has just, I mean, I think he has a job for life. It's hard to imagine that way, right? How bad the heat would have to be for them to be like, this is on Spoh. Yeah.

I mean, all the stress guy's gone through and he still looks like that. It was incredible. I mean, total haughty on the sidelines. I know, honestly. like he was pretty hard like with jimmy like that was that was sick yeah that that was like that was like you remember when you were a kid and it would just be like the kid couldn't you couldn't get a rise out of this one dude but then if he just that no yeah yeah like it took like a 45 minutes to calm him down and he was like crying but angry you know no yeah he's the guy who's like look if you want to get into a fire

with him that's fine but you better kill him he can't be moving at the end of it right he's gonna get up Because Jimmy was like, this is cool. I got to say, fuck you to Spoh. And now it's going to go viral. And it's like, I got it off my chest. Like there are people who are like, I'm cool. Like, let's, I just want to get it off my chest. And then it's like the other guy is like, you've broken me.

And now I have to have like an absolute meltdown in front of you for eight minutes on television. If you can get modern SPO to where like he, the top button on the dry fit polo almost came undone. Yeah. And if you can get him there, I mean, that's really disheveled for like for modern SPO. That's impressive that Butler's able to get him there. But kudos to, kudos to Spoe for keeping it all together. I mean,

weirdly able to go kind of ballistic, as ballistic as a coach can go, right? Without like going full Bobby Knight. As ballistic as I've seen a coach go at one of their players without making physical contact. Because like usually it's like, you see dudes lose it, but they're losing it at refs.

I didn't feel like he was like out of control exactly. You know what I mean? No, he threw his clipboard. Yeah, it was. But he almost felt like he was throwing his clipboard because he was like, I can't believe you're making me do this. You know, like, because he was like, he's like,

you want to fight me in the back? Like, what are you talking about? It is a good coach's bad. They both have great like coaches energy. They both are kind of like badass a little bit. So this playoffs has been, well,

a lot of like the most recent games, I feel like, you know, with some exceptions, it's just been these runs that are in, insurmountable, right? So like the Celtics had like the heat obviously had one in the third quarter of game one. The Warriors just opened all the fire hydrants in game one against Dallas. And also that was like almost weirdly a defensive run in a lot of ways because of what they threw at Luca. Are you seeing this

series, this Celtics heat series, I guess generally as a long one? Or did you think that like do you think that the heat will come up back with like a counter move in game three against Boston or game four against Boston because obviously the goal here is steal one in Boston and then it's a it's a three game series yeah i mean i've complimented er's bull sure enough for like two months but he but he you know he's good at adjustments they know what they're doing they'll have they'll have something right but like you say the celtics have shown the ability to adjust there is a part of me that doesn't think that the series is going to go that long i could see i don't know if it's going to be a gentleman sweep or not i don't know that's that's hard to say well and reason why it's probably hard to understand it is because

Miami hasn't been really challenged this way. Yeah, that's good point. I mean, like, they lost those two against Mbid in Philly, but it did feel like as soon as game five started in Miami, I was like, oh, like that was everything that Embed had, right? Like, that was like, everything that the Sixers had, they put into those two home games to get back in the series, and now they're kind of out of gas and out of ideas.

Miami swept Atlanta, I think, and then they beat the Sixers four, two, so they've lost two games in the playoffs, so for not three games in the playoffs. And I think for as much as I respect this team, I still don't have like a handle on like whether or not they are like inevitable finalists or whether like they've just kind of like have a little bit of like a Utah e slipped into the first seat, but only by like I'm not trying to,

I'm not even trying to be like dismissive of like what they accomplished. No, totally. They're hard to think about like these sorts of series are weird to me because you can, you know, it's like either the holder, you can talk about it two ways, right? There's like the one thing that's like, you know, look at the resiliency of Miami, look at how tough, you know,

like they battle back in game one, whole court, whatever. And then there's, you know, okay, then the Celtics, they respond in game two, you know, it's even, you know, anybody's game. You can talk about it like that. Or you can say the Celtics, you know, didn't dominate in the first half of game one, but were definitely the better team.

I mean, they were, they were up and kind of had the momentum at the half. And then, you know, just they lost control of the leash a little bit in that third once Butler got going. And then Hero just started kind of picking on Pritchard. You know, there's a world where like that's kind of the only time in that series, that run where Miami looked really good, all the other, you know, time has kind of been the Celtics that have looked like clearly the better team. There's a part of me that thinks it's Celtics in five or six. But like Butler's capable of putting up big time numbers and carrying a team and making it like, a grinded out series work for him, too.

You know what I mean? Yeah. And if he can keep getting to the line and they can keep getting their defense set on the other end, if he can keep kind of making the game choppy in that way, I could see them extending it. But I just don't know if they've got enough juice other than him offensively to be able to do enough with that defense. You know what I'm saying?

Like I just don't know if they can go stop for stop when push comes to shove. I would love it. I'd love to see seven games. Lowry's a little bit of a wild card because it would be lovely to get him back from Miami and get him like, I mean, he can obviously make a lot of things happen playmaking wise. He's like I really good at initiating like their offense in like a kind of secondary transition. He's really good at hit a heads. He's really good at trailing a play and like being able to hit a hit a big shot there. I don't know that Kyle Lowry is at the stage of his career where it's like Rob Williams where it's like Rob Williams really hurts his knee.

and then when he comes back, he looks like friggin' Elajelon, like, I think he might be in the slower recovery zone, but we'll see. The playoffs are heating up, and you can make every game feel like game seven on Fandall Sportsbook, an official partner of the NBA. Throughout the playoffs, all customers can place a no-swet, same-game parlay each week. You'll get up to $20 in free bets if you don't win. Fandul has so many ways to play, and best of all, when you do win,

you'll get paid faster than a fast break. Tonight, Friday night, game two, Mavs Warriors. You know, I'm just going to go off of what happened with Celtics Heat because I'm an idiot. And I'm going to say, like, I think this is going to be a longer series. And I think that the Mavericks are going to steal one at Chase Center. So what are we talking about? We're talking about Luca going off. So I'm going to go with the Mavs money line, Luca over 31 and a half, and Luca to record more than four assists.

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Fan Dull Sportsbook, an official partner of the NBA, 21 and older, and select states refund issued as non-withdrawable free bets that expire seven days after a seat. Max bet $20 per week. Restrictions apply. See full terms at sportsbook. Fandul.com. gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit fanduel.com slash RG in Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Illinois, and Virginia. 1-800-next-next-step to 533342 in Arizona. 1-888-88-9-77-7-77 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut, 1-8009 with it in Indiana.

1-8777-7-0 stop in Louisiana. 1-8-7-NY or text-Hope-MY to 467-369 in New York. Tennessee redline is 1-800-889-9-9-8-8-9-8-8-2-4700 in Wyoming, 1-800-Gambler.net in West Virginia. Tyler, I wanted to ask you a little bit more generally about the playoff experience so far because you and I are obviously a pretty big, like, media consumers as well as basketball consumers. We're basketball media consumers as much as really. Basketball consumers. Have you been enjoying like the sort of the wrinkle of this playoff specifically, but I think

it's been a trend, obviously, where we're getting a lot more analysis and takes from current NBA players, or I guess recently retired too, because, like, you get the JJs and stuff like that. Sure. Obviously. But I was checking out Dremont stuff over the course of the playoffs. And I realized that, like, he's just been doing like 15 minute postgame reactions, both to games that he has played in, but also just, like, weighing in on Celtics Heat game one

for 15 minutes. And then of course, like this week I thought it was really quite something. I think it's been, you know, he had a whole run of Pat Beverly on first take, which was like, I thought like almost like the experiment that nearly broke first take, you know, where it was just like you find a guy to take who like so seriously taking the most extreme position, whether it was like the bubble championship needs an asterisk or pay James Harden the super match or whatever it was where neither. Stephen A nor JJ knew what to do because like the take was so nuclear. They were like, I should have a hazmat son for this. I mean, sometimes Stephen A, like you see him looking at Pat Beb and there was a part of me

to like saw on Stephen A's eyes. He's like, what have I done? What have I created? Yeah, right. This is what have I rock here? I mean, it is entertaining. I mean, I already said like I can't, I'm not at all objective about Pat Babb. I can't.

I'm wildly biased. I thought the stuff he was doing was mainly a clown show. But I also, you know, like I get YESPN had him back, right? The Draymond stuff, it's pretty fascinating to be able to have a guy who is that smart, who is going to be, you know, the, you know, whatever, Barclay 2.0, you're right? Like, it is pretty wild to have him because he's, I mean, like, nobody can say he's not honest. and I mean, sometimes he's posturing in favor of himself, too. He's obviously very pro-Dremont, but you are getting his, what feels like, unfiltered opinion.

I'm honestly a little bit more interested in him talking about other series, games that he's not playing him. Like, it's one thing if he, after the ejection, stuff like that in the Memphis series, like, yes, by all means, like, I want to hear what he has to say. I know it's going to be crazy skewed, but still, like, I want to hear what he has to say. I would not say that he was ever doing things to create content, but it is like he's executing the plan amazingly well of like controversy leads to content. So as soon as something controversial happens, like own the story. Yeah. And he's been doing that throughout the playoffs in a really interesting way. I mean, this is obviously a tragic example. But when Adrian Payne was killed, he was like, I will be talking about this on my podcast. Now he said that because he was like, I want to be able to be like honest and emotional and I don't want to like cry up here. Right. in a post-game press conference. But just to be thinking about, like, you know, this is my platform is the one that I'm going to emphasize in terms of like my feelings, my thoughts,

and my analysis is pretty breathtaking for like an all-MBA level basketball players, one of the most recognizable names remaining in the playoffs. Yeah, it's not often that, I mean, he's really good at it already, but it's not often that the person that's really good, at that is still crazy relevant in the playoffs and a guy who will have a direct say and who wins the title, right?

Like it's not, this isn't who, what, I don't want to take shots, what, Channing Fry or whatever late in this career, having a podcast or something. It's not the same thing. I mean, I have my, because of my Thunderpass, right, I got my own problems with Dremont. I don't want to be here being like, yeah, I mean, Draymond's awesome. Yeah, right. I'm not trying to back you. No, but I know, but he, but obviously, he.

He's very smart and he's very, I mean, he's very, very good at. He's very, very good at it. I feel like the one thing that I really enjoyed about these playoffs is that each series has had like a really different identity. You know, I mean, I think that Golden State, Memphis, and Boston, Milwaukee both felt really physical. But even within the physicality of both series, I felt like the manner in which games were being won was rather different than the Celtics Buck series, you know, and, you know, I think the problem with, like, physical basketball is that for brief moments, it feels like, whoa, this, this feels like the sort of throwback 80s, 90s hoops, and, like, there's a lot of, like, contact and guys are really no free layups and all

that. And then what it inevitably means is that we're going to get into a reffing contest. Right. And it's going to turn into, like, a lot of debates about, like, interpretations of charges and whether or not a guy was doing a rip-through and stuff like that. So I think that, like, the physicality comes with an increased presence of, like, the Scott Fosters of the world where you're just like a little like, damn, this is not what I've really signed up to watch. On the other hand, the Dallas Sun series had, like, a completely different identity. I felt like, I mean, while also relatively physical,

that was almost like essentially like a style makes fights kind of thing where Dallas, like, just pressed their advantage outside and we're just like, we're going to spread you out and like and we're just going to like launch until you guys break. So I was curious whether or not you would sort of enjoy the variety of basketball that we've seen throughout the playoffs or if you thought like the reliance on the three pointer is still like something that no matter how physical a team is, it's still kind of like you get a pretty monochromatic style of hoops throughout. You know, that's a good question.

I mean, thinking about the three like it's right, you're having to like marry the idea that like obviously this is the smart way to play. Obviously, this is what the math is saying, all the smart people say. If you want your team to be as good as they can possibly be, shoot more threes. And I get it. And sometimes when they're going in,

it's a whole lot of fun. But it was nice to see, at least when the suns were going, you know, a little like reclamation of the mid-range and stuff like that, seeing guys do some more kind of on the ball, like kind of, you know, wiggle type stuff. Those those sorts of things are way more aesthetically pleasing to me than a guy, you know, coming off some spread pick and roll and draw on a defender and then kick into the guy in the corner and he shoots it to three. Like that's just as a,

for it's a better time for my eyes to watch somebody try to go by somebody off the dribble than it is to watch the other. I appreciate the change. you up. I mean, Milwaukee's a whole different story, right? Like Milwaukee was with, with, with, with yonis, it just becomes just a rock fight, right? He's just, it's just get out of the way. And that's fun to watch. You know, Tatum, the way that those, those, some of those battles in those Celtics buck series between Tatum and yonis, it was so fun to watch them because it felt like they were getting their buckets in such different ways, you know, and it wasn't like it was, I mean, Janus is brute force, but there's a lot.

of skill, like a lot of subtle skill that's there too with the footwork and everything like that, the body control, right? Like there's plenty of stuff going on that's not just he's stronger and taller than everybody. Um, so it's not like there's like all this skill from Tatum and none from Janus, but there did feel like a difference in just the way that they were handling their business offensively, but it was similarly dominant. And that was fun to see. Sometimes it would feel like, you know, in the past, you get into these Kyrie Steff laser light shows where it's kind of the same sort of shots from the same type of dudes. It's fun whenever the, whenever the back and forth is from, you know, whatever, you know, in the bubble, Jamal Murray, Donovan Mitchell,

like not the same game, but in the same vicinity of it, right? Like, it's, it's, it's fun when there's a mix for sure. That's been, that's been nice. I mean, we can talk about the officiating aspect of it, but yeah. I do think that the officiating is, sort of corrected itself in some regards. Like, I would much rather watch an up and down game than guys constantly getting calls for any kind of contact or jumping into contact on their three point shots. I think it's been relatively okay in that regard. I do think that the amount of pressure teams are putting on the rim has been like almost

like the officials haven't seen basketball like that in nine months. And now they're trying to adjust to be like, damn, dog, you really went at that. And so it's almost like they're like watching like, oh, they're like, we have to get our sea legs under us. And then you just get some crews that are just like, we're going to become the stars of the show. Like, we want to do a lot of like reviews and we want to do a lot of like ostentatious charge calls and stuff like that. I've enjoyed it. I mean, like, it's definitely feels a little bit more fun to me than the Mori Ball Rockets or watching the jazz kind of just like ping it around the perimeter and like just get Joe Engel's ball going. I've really like

enjoyed this place. And I've really enjoyed honestly, like the, not the rise of something. of the stars, but the fact that the four best players remaining are Butler, Luca, Steph, and Tatum is not what I would have predicted in November of last year. Yeah. And there's like a variety there. They're not, they don't have the same. And I should also say the like, Stefan Kierre are obviously awesome and those, those battles are especially in themselves. I'm just saying like it's, it's fun, it's fun to watch guys come at things from a different perspective. Right. Yeah. I think it's actually like, I mean, it's kind of nice to not have LeBron in this. Yeah. When LeBron isn't looming.

as like a roadblock or like this thing that needs to you know cement his legacy with another ring or somebody that another team needs to knock off and there's usually like a lot of like very like repetitive narratives going along with like a LeBron led series. Yeah. It's kind of cool to be like shit like no matter what happens with these final four teams like something amazing is going to take place. Yeah. Whether it's like Luca or Tatum going up another level, Miami going to like their second finals in four years or Steph getting back to the top of the mountain. All four of those things are pretty fascinating, you know, to me. And they all feel new.

It's really nice to have gotten to a place, like you say, where it's not retread. And LeBron's amazing in his own way. And he was incredible this year. But like you say, that that monster is not at the end of this particular tunnel. It is nice to know that there's some fresh face. in the mix. Speaking of fresh faces, let's talk about the thunder. So you wrote a great piece there earlier this week, right off of the lottery, where the thunder

had two possible chances of, I guess, getting, I mean, they had a very slim chance of that Clippers pick and then their own pick to get the number one pick. It feels like it's been longer. I think possibly because the Chris Paul year was supposed to be kind of like a process year, but then Chris Paul is just too fucking good. What's funny is because that that Presti letter weirdly came before that year. And so because it came before that year, like that, it's been in the water for longer than it actually. Yeah, it feels like once they traded Russ.

It was like, okay, like what we're going to try and do is this. And then, you know, after Chris Paul, I think that they have become what the Sixers sort of were, but in a weird way, because there's been less fanfare about what the Thunder are doing. because maybe as a destination or as a traditional powerhouse in the league, Oklahoma has a little less history, obviously, than Philadelphia. There's just so much less scrutiny on, like, what they're doing. And it's kind of odd. I mean, I'm curious about how you're feeling about this right now

because I remember what it was like when the Sixers were just like the two ways, like the experimental hub of like guys coming out of like seemingly nowhere, the G League, you know, and all the process players across the years of where you know in some ways like their stats would get built up because that was a fast-paced team

that like you know accelerated a lot of guys development because they were getting a lot of opportunities they wouldn't at other teams. And then the Sixers were pretty savvy about like flipping those dudes for more picks and those picks would go into whatever trades they wanted to make down the line.

But ultimately what the Sixers were built on was getting marquee players out of the top of the draft. So they actually fucked that up. retrospect. Like pretty sincerely. They have now arrived on the other side of it with just M-B'd, which is pretty amazing when you think about the amount of bites they had at the apple.

But for you, you know, the Thunder have weirdly almost like had bad luck in the top of the lottery when it comes to like, given the amount of bleeding they've been doing. Sure. It's been wild to see like, you know, like that last year, I think a lot of people were like, it's got to be cade. It makes sense. It's the Oklahoma kid.

let's go. Yeah. And, you know, you wind up a giddy who's fucking sick. But, like, that's a lot of pain for your Josh Giddy pick. It's been funny because, I mean, like, I'm stoked about Giddy. I think Giddy's awesome. And yet, like you say, like, there are still these other dudes that were at the top of that draft where you can't help but feel like, you know, it's what you said, it's funny

you said that at Cade. There was some video came out of Evan Moble, like a couple days before the draft. I forget it. It was like him and Jalen Suggs. somebody had them out on like a court and they were just sort of asking each other questions in a very sort of, you know, uncomfortable sort of way. And they were asking, they asked Mobley who his favorite team was to watch. And he said the Thunder, which I've never heard a player say before.

And in my head at that point, I was like, oh, okay, well, then this is destiny. And then obviously it doesn't happen. I was listening to, you know, after, since the Thunder got the second pick, I'm listening to all You got to be a draft expert now. I'm being ridiculous about it. And I listened, you know, Walsh had Schmitz on his pod the other day. And he just sort of mentioned just sort of offhand. And not even, you know, Schmitz didn't challenge him.

And it was, it was, he, Wodge said the point on the way to another thing he was saying. But he just sort of said offhand that the Thunder would have drafted Evan Mowgli if they had the first pick last year. And that was super duper interesting to me. just think about how that might have been received in the moment as opposed to what, you know, I thought of that when you said it's, it's interesting because like it both does, I'm with you, it does feel like it's been a long time. I think that part of it is because of, like I say, when the letter came out. But then I also just think like, for people who don't know what was this

letter. Because like there's, I mean, one of the things that thought the hallmarks of both the Sixers and Thunder rebuilds has been like a manifesto, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you know, sort of being up about it without being straight up front about it. You know, like basically Sam Presti, the Thunder general manager, put in the statewide paper Oklahoma, the Oklahoma, a, you know, letter that basically said essentially, hey, in order to be really good, you got to be really bad for a while to get really good players.

So effectively, we're going to be losing for a little while. Yeah. And there's a lot more there. and, you know, Presti, you know, for sure had a dictionary next to him when he wrote it, right? Like, he likes words. And he's like a thoughtful dude. It's super weird to think about because I'm both like, I'm kind of tired of it and kind of want to just get back to sort of competing. But then in my head, I'm also like, it's only been, it's been two drafts worth of tank.

You know what I'm saying? And it's also like, sometimes when I hear the people that get mad about tanking, I'm just like, can't you just get mad? get mad at the kings who like suck accidentally like who like have been like playing bad basketball for forever like we're the black guy of the league like what are you talking about you know like those sorts like sometimes those I feel that way too so it's I don't know it's it's yeah complicated I don't know yeah like and when I go back to like how the Sixers went into the process coming off of a like bog average kind of occasionally like above average but Doug Collins led Sixers team.

that culminated with 1112 where they, I think, you know, like they beat the Bulls when Derek Rose got hurt. They lost the Celtics in like a pretty fun series in the second round. And they were not going to win the championship with that team for sure. But the memories that you might have from any given moment of the, from those playoffs, you would just be like, this is why I watch NBA basketball to cheer for my team and like hope against hope that they can beat the frigging Celtics or whatever. And then that got torn down and built back up again to a team that is now, incapable of getting out of the second round of the NBA playoffs.

And in no way do I think that that team from 1112 had a better shot at winning the NBA finals than a team led by Joel and B does in 2022. That's like obviously not what I'm saying. But the process, both little P and capital P, to get there was certainly like long and arduous. It seems like the thunder, I wonder if the thunder have learned any lessons from that. You know, like, obviously, like, they're a pretty well-supported team, although, you know, in like a smaller market. So it doesn't seem like they're bleeding fans or fans are just like, screw this. I'm not going to watch SGA, like, while away the years here.

Right. But it seems like it's been a little bit more compressed. Maybe I feel that way because of that Chris Paul year. I mean, I think part of it was also like there was the Chris, like that Chris Paul year was also the bubble year was also the year that took for forever. like these multiple seasons have been compressed in this time too. And so whenever it got in the water that the Thunder might trade Chris Paul to tank. And then it was even up through the trade deadline. Remember, there was like, are they going to trade Gallo or not?

Like they might be trying to hit reset now on that or something. They didn't wind up doing it. I think that it was just sort of in the water enough for long enough that whenever it did actually start happening, which wasn't really until the. like halfway through, you know, whatever the last season, whenever they, you know, whatever shut down Horford, it just feels longer, I think. And I get, I get that it does, but, but yeah,

it is like weird that it has actually only been two drafts, you know, basically. Well, so now they're, they're going to have two picks in this, what, in the top 15. What's the Clippers? 12. The Clippers landed out of which were, yeah. So they have two top 12 picks, including the second pick, in which case they're going to get one.

of Chet, Paolo Benchero, or Jabari Green, in all likelihood, unless there's some sort of search. If I was the GM, you don't want me to be your GM, because I would just draft Mathrin because I watched one game of his, and I was just like, that guy's a friggin beast. Yeah, he's not. So, like, I don't think anybody wants to be making their picks. I think you could probably make an argument that any one of those three dudes is in some way exactly what the thunder need. There's something about Chet that feels like even more like, this is going to be a minute.

to just buckle up. Yeah, I mean, I am fascinated to know how they value those dudes. Do they value Chet more because they would like to still lose a little bit next year because they are infatuated with Wimbunyama like everybody else is? And Scoot Henderson, like, are they, you know, that's a thing that I think some Thunder fans are trying to kind of like, you know, you're trying to like read the tea leaves and figure out like, okay, exactly how competitive do we want to be, you know, at the end of the year, right? And I'll be, I'll be interested to see how that operates.

I don't know. I don't know how people will take to if they try to shut SGA down again. I don't think people would be too pumped up about that. And so I was really worried about them not getting a top three pick. and then it getting much harder to get a blue chip type dude. Yeah. Because Shea's obviously going to get better. Giddy's obviously going to get better.

Oh, you're seeing Shea and Giddy just trying to, you know, orchestrate their way out of Oklahoma. That'd be dope, but Giddy was like, I'm fucking up. Like, you guys thought Zion was going to re-signed with New Orleans? Like, get me out of Oklahoma. I mean, I was just more, me, like, I don't think they're going to be able to lose enough. If they, if they're both playing, I'm not going to be going to they're going to be able to be able to be bad enough. That's a really good point though.

Like if you guys have giddy SGA, I honestly got to tell you. That's like literally the two fucking Thunder players I can name. No, I mean, it's like it's like giddy SGA, Dort, Kenrich Williams. Like there's there's there's a fine, you know, like competitive core in place that if everybody's healthy and hitting it can, you know, be, you know, a difficult team to deal with. Right. Like I would bet like, you know, all my belongings on the table right now that they want either Chet or Jabari. But there is also the thing that's in the back of my head that thinks that the NBA has become largely in the playoffs at least about like, can you go get a bucket on somebody? Baron Cheryl's a good playmaker too.

And, you know, when he has the opportunities it seems like. And so I, I, you know, and Presti's not afraid to do something weird. You know what I mean? So I'll be really, really fascinated to watch all of that. Jabari also just seems like he would be a perfect fit just with exactly how he exists today. You know, however he develops, he develops, but just like skill set that exists right now, a big who can guard. It's like plug him. Yeah.

And, and, and, you know, he's just picking and pop him with Gideon SGA all day. Like it, you know, he would open up. many things. SJ's already so good going to the rim. He would get that much better because Biggs will be terrified to leave Jabari for too long. You give Giddy somebody, you know, to throw to. Like, it would be, I'm, I'm, I'm pumped because I'll be excited no matter who it is. I'll be, you know, like, that's great.

That's the best place to be in because like I've, I've been through early drafts where it's just like, God, it has to be this dude. And if it's not, we're just. And I, and I, like, It could for sure become that way for me. Like if I, you know, whatever. But yeah, right now I really do like I would be happy with any of them. It is, it is interesting. It feels like more and more people are sort of trying to turn it into a two player kind of deal there at the top.

Kind of trying to move Bancherro into like kind of another little mini tier by himself below those. Yes. You know, before you get to Ivy and Murray and everybody. It's, it's been interesting to see that. I think there's going to be some volatility. I still feel like somebody's going to like. rise a little bit. All right, man, well, we'll definitely have you back on as the draft season goes along and as the playoffs go along to chat more about Marcus Smart, Jimmy Butler sitting in the

middle of the road with his shirt off and who the thunder should take. Tyler Parker can be read on the ringer.com and can be heard across the rigger podcast network. Increasingly, as the months go by, I'm sure Tyler, thanks so much for joining you. Thanks for having me. We're produced by Chris Sutton. We will be back next Friday with Cyrant. Thanks for listening.