The Ringer NBA Show - Which Rebuilding NBA Franchise Would You Want Most? | The Corner 3 (Ep. 357)

Episode Date: December 21, 2018

We try to temper our hype after Luka Doncic’s 32-point explosion in a loss to the Clippers, review Chris Paul’s nagging hamstring and the Rockets’ thin roster, and discuss the weird Buddy Hield age news (2:00). Then, we each choose the rebuilding franchise we think is best set up, or most intriguing, for the long term (18:45). Finally, we throw an outlet pass to the weekend’s best games (37:45). Hosts: Kevin O’Connor, Danny Chau, Jonathan Tjarks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's Corner 3 is presented by State Farm. State Farm has over 19,000 agents across the country. 19,000 is a huge number, but it's not really about the number. It's about having a real person who's nearby, someone you can talk to and get personalized help protecting what matters most. Combining the purchases of your home and auto insurance is easy with the help of a real-life State Farm agent. Go to State Farm.com slash agent to find an agent today.

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Welcome to the Ringr NBA show. This is The Corner 3. I'm Kevin O'Connor. And joining me here in Los Angeles, even though we're not in the same place right now, is Ringer Associate Editor, Danny Chow. Yeah, we are all just sequestered in our own... I don't know, we're all sick.

That's what I'm trying to say. We're all sick. Except for Jonathan Charks, who is in Las Vegas. It's Ringer staff writer, Jonathan Charks. Yeah, I'm at the G League Showcase having the time of my life. You guys are missing out, man. A lot of fun, 10-day contract players talk about.

Vince Edwards' fever. Yeah, how is it out there, Charks? How's Vegas treating you for the G League showcase? It's great, man. I mean, it's fun to watch all these two-way contract guys, see who's got something. There's a few NBA players down here, too. I've had a great time. While me and Danny are recovered from the flu this week, which ravaged the ringer's offices.

It's awful, awful week here, Danny. But we do have some good games to discuss from last night, including Rockets Heat. He beat the Rockets 10199, Hardin dropped 35. But it wasn't enough for Houston as Josh Richardson dropped 22. without Justice Swinslow and Gorin Drogich for the heat, ending Miami's five-game winning streak. Big news out of last night. Chris Paul strained his left hamstring 17 minutes into the game,

and now he's out indefinitely. And this touches on what we kind of talked about two weeks ago, John, where with Houston, even after these five-game winning streets where things look good, it's hard to trust this team because of the health of Chris Paul. Yeah, absolutely. And it seems to me, like, they might want to try to move Paul into a different role to try to extend his career out, maybe don't ask so much on his body, but because of his contract, they really can't because they can't bring in any more secondary

pieces when he's making $41 a year. Yeah, and it's the same hamstring that he injured during the Western Conference Finals, his left hamstring. And really, when he injured that hamstring during Western Conference Finals, that was pretty much the nail in the coffin for the team. So, I mean, the Rockets really have to hope that the symbolism isn't the same this time around. and Brandon Knight is going to have to be the guy who steps up here except he right now at this point does not look anything like the last Brandon Knight that we saw when he was healthy in Phoenix which was what like five years ago it sure feels like it was five years ago

and I remember I watched his first G League game which was maybe two weeks ago or so now and I don't think he looks that much better than he did then how did he look at he looked like a zero on defense he got blown by his shot wasn't falling from anywhere on the court I thought his first step looked a little bit slow and at this point through five games with Houston granted it's only a sample of 39 minutes

he's shooting 18.2% from three point range 20% from two point range I mean Brandon Knight right now is zero for Houston if we're asking him to step up the rockets might be in trouble yeah what they really need is for James Harden to continue playing at an MVP level. But even that is asking for a bit much.

You need other guys to elevate their play to a level that just probably is not possible for them. So I think for Houston, despite this optimistic five-game stretch, it's going to be tough at this point without CP3. Yeah, can they make a trade for a backup point guard? I mean, I feel like at this point, they have to start making moves. I don't know. One of the things that I reported this week was before that Trevor Arisa deal happened, one of the many variations involved Atlanta, which would have sent Jeremy Lynn

to the Phoenix Suns. So maybe that's something you revisit if you trade Brandon Knight with a first round pick, and then you get Lynn, maybe something like that you could look for. But even then, I'm not so sure it's worth it for Atlanta because that Houston pick and what is a average at best draft

would be what, if Houston makes the playoffs, 20th? It would be like the 20th, 21st pick. I don't know if that's worth it for Atlanta. or another team to take on night's extra year, around $15 million next season. I think so. You look at what Chicago did last year with Ashik.

I think that's the going right for a first round pick if you want an extra one. And a rebuilding team, I think paying 15 mil for one first round pick kind of makes sense. One of the other things from last night's game that was extremely interesting was Miami went zone. And a lot in the second quarter and the fourth quarter. I forget if you edited the article last year, Danny, but I wrote an article about zone defense, about, you know, just as throwing a curveball against an offense like Houston's a high-powered

offense because it takes them out of their pick and roll. It takes them out of their normal offense. And granted, Houston this year hasn't been quite as potent as they were last season when they were one of the greatest regular season offenses ever. I still would like to see teams throw zone out there a little bit more. So it was kind of cool to see that last night taking Houston out of their offense. Jonathan, do you think Zonis has any value in today's league against a high-powered offense that's just rolling? That's a good question.

I mean, I could see what you're saying in terms of a change-up, right? If things aren't going a certain way and you have no other easiest adjustments to make. I wonder in a playoff series if a team has time to prepare for it, whether it would really make much of a difference. But in a regular season game, sure, why not, right? Nothing else is working. Right. Especially this year with how the Rockets are shooting the ball. no one is shooting the three ball well outside of what hardin and p j tucker so i mean why not right also last

night the clippers beat the mavericks 125 to one 21 luca donch had scored a career high 32 but watching last night's game jonathan the one thing that stuck out to me dandre jordan despite rebounding 22 balls he was a statue on defense and that has continued a season long trend where this guy is just lost on the defensive end of the floor yeah he's been very underwhelming to me. I mean, looking at it now, I don't see why you need to pay DeAndre 20 million dollars if Javel's a minimum contract player. And I kind of think he's thinking he's going to get a long-term contract next season by padding his stats. To me, it might end up becoming like a minimum $3, four million a year part-time center. And there's other guys in this rotation who should

probably be playing over him, right? I mean, it's tough right now with Dirk coming back. Like, I don't know how, that's like the big question for the Mavs. So they're saying, okay, Dirk, he can't start anymore. So bring him off the bench. but their bench has been playing really, really well this season. So, like, can he really improve their bench or will he make it worse? He's taking minutes away from guys like Maxi Kleber. Deep cut for you corner three people. Maxi Kleber is kind of a good player.

Is Dirk even registering enough minutes to... I mean, I guess the minutes that he is registering are coming off the bench and he's interfering with... They're taking Kleber's minutes, like literally in his role in the rotation. For people who are like, who's Max and Kleber, what does he do well, John? So he's just like... He's actually, it's a cool story. So he's a seven-foot German from Dirk's hometown of Worsburg, Germany.

Like, they grew up in the same small town. He's seven feet. He's pretty mobile. He's a smart player. He kind of does that stretch big man role. Doesn't shoot as well as Dirk. But he's very athletic, not very, but he's athletic smart guy who kind of plugs in a lot of holes for the maps, the backup center. And yet last night, he didn't play until I believe the fourth quarter.

I think maybe minutes after he came into the game, he had a great possession following a defense. Yeah, because the math used him as a stretch four for like Burrower. for like Barreya and a spread pick and roll. So if he's, if Dirk's in the rotation, he's in Maxie Cleaver's spot in the lineup. It's kind of sad watching Dirk right now, isn't it, Danny? Yeah, but at the same time, I feel like it's better to be extremely washed

on your own team than go to another team and be completely cooked. Like, do you remember Hakeem Olajuwon on the Raptors? You remember Patrick Ewing on the magic and Sonics? Like, that's really sad. But at least, you know, With the Mavericks, they know that he's still there. I feel like there's some sort of comfort in that.

He's still passing the baton on to the next guy with Luca Dantr. There's some beauty in that, even if Dirk is a total shell of his former self. And he'll get better, too, as he gets a little more rhythm. I mean, I hope. Yeah, he's just looking real stiff out there. It's a little concerning, but. And then the team that won last science game, the Clippers, Gallumari, scored 32 points. We've talked about him and Tobias Harris before and how good they've been doing in the season

for LA. But the odd thing is in the last night's game, despite the win for them, is Avery Bradley is a complete shell of his total self as well. Doc Rivers, I believe he mentioned in one of his interviews how A.B. can still defend anybody, but that's really

not been the case the season for A.B. Bradley. He's been a negative player on the offensive and the floor, and his once elite defense has degraded. I'm not sure where the value in playing him right now is over someone like Ty Wallace, who brings versatility, who is right now a better defender and is a better passer as well on the

offensive end. Clippers seem to have fallen back down to earth, haven't they, John? Yeah, I just, I wondered about their guard play. So with Lou Williams have been out the last week, he came back last night, I had a big game. But really, they're depending on Avery, Bradley and Patrick Beverly. And I'm just not sure how much those two have left. And so, like, beyond Lou Williams, and then it's like, can Shea Gillis Alexander play a bigger role? He's only a rookie and we'll doc give him more room to run over some of their veteran guards. But I don't know if it's that good anymore. Yeah, I mean, they're both two of the worst players in the rotation in terms of net rating. Avery Bradley is by far the worst. He's at a negative

4.4 with him on the court. But at the same time, you need to plug those minutes somewhere, I guess. Well, also, we're saying S.J. and Ty Wallace, and I don't know if that'll work, but like Bradley and Beverly, they're guys who play off stars. That's what their best roles are. there's no like real all there's no James Harden on the team from the playoff of anymore they have to carry their own weight right now it's just especially frustrating when you have somebody like Patrick beverly as well getting 25 minutes which is fine but I think you could easily bump him up the 30 minutes per game and it's funny we're talking about this after the clippers had a big win it seems fair to flip it the other way and talk about the good things happening with this team again montra's harrell the inverse of d'andre jordan here is getting paid 20 million dollars harrell at two years six million per

is far exceeding his contract. With him, it's a lot of just hustle. It's a lot of this guy just busts his ass every single play on the floor, whereas DJ has just been lazily moving around in the defensive end. Harold is someone, it seems, trying to earn his money with his next contract. But it's always been this way with Montrose Harrell going back to Louisville, John. Yeah, it's all about energy. If you're a big man like that, like DJ and Harold, like DJ's older and he's bigger

and he just doesn't move as well anymore. so he can't play with the same kind of energy as Montrez at this point in their careers. I just can't believe he got the contract that he did. Like, it's probably, it's the biggest bargain in the league right now outside of like a rookie contract. It's a little bit surprising there wasn't more of a market

for him this off season. I would expect that him to get maybe like one of those bigger one year deals, like a one year 10 or even like two eight per but two years, 12 million total. That surprised me this off season. I mean, it's just hard to find room for centers.

Like few teams. I mean, also pay $20 million the Andre Jordan, but most teams just aren't trying to get more centers in their roster. Earlier this week, LeBron James made public comments about Anthony Davis and the possibility of him going to the Lakers. LeBron James told ESPN's David McMinneman, quote, that would be amazing. Like, duh, that would be incredible. And that's it. But this morning, Adrian Worgienowski reported a handful of small market general managers are upset that the NBA wasn't enforcing tampering rules, which does apply to

players. The NBA released a statement to Adrian Orgenowski, which said, each case is assessed on its own facts in general. Absent evidence of team coordination or other aggregating factors, it is not tampering when a player makes a comment about his interest in playing with another team's player. Look, it's on the general managers of these small market teams to build a winning team around their stars. But one of the points in Woj's article was about how there's a belief amongst small market GMs that the league is not only condoning public wooing of the star players towards bigger market teams, but they're encouraging it. Is this being turned into something that it's not?

Or do small market teams have a case here, Danny? Man, LeBron James said two words. He said, amazing, and he said incredible. Like, come on. That's it. There's nothing to see here. I mean, like, in the end, the article, they're like, oh, if they're going to have these rules intemper and they have to enforce them. It's like, this is just traffic cop stuff. Oh, this guy's

jaywalking, man, he's jaywalking. Okay, whatever. Nobody cares, man. Come on. Yeah, one of the quotes in here from an anonymous Eastern Conference GM, this is for Morganowski, was, it's New Orleans problem today and a problem with a different player tomorrow for the rest of us. You know, and I can understand the frustration, but it's not like Anthony Davis hasn't had to deal with this, you know, it's not like Anthony Davis hasn't heard from other players privately. And it's not like the conversation about Anthony Davis potentially demanding a trade out of New Orleans isn't happening already anyway. That's the part where it's like nothing's different here.

Like Anthony Davis is a grown man. He's going to make his own decision regardless of LeBron James saying two words publicly. So which is where I tend to agree with this anonymous Western Commerce GM who said, if you want to push Anthony Davis in L.A., if you allow LeBron to interfere with teams, then just do it. Change the rules and say it's the wild, wild west and anything goes. that's the way I feel about it. That's how it is.

And who cares? Yeah, I have to say, though, the way you read those two quotes, I think, Kevin, you have a future in political campaign commercial. Like, doing those voiceovers. Like, I'm into it. Interference is as bad as tampering, maybe worse in this case. This becomes a campaign meant to destabilize another organization. That is a lot for an Easter Conference GM.

to just say. Like, he, there's some big, like 10 cent words there. I know, I know. And lighter news, or maybe not so lighter news,

is taking pretty seriously around NBA Twitter. But he healed is apparently 26 years old. We all thought he was turning 25 years today on his birthday, but apparently he revealed that, no, he's 26. And this made me dive deep into Googling his,

his birthday. And apparently, Fiba had his birthday correct. as did a 2016 article on Watch Stadium about Buddy Healed, which said had he be born in 1962 instead of 1992, so they had it right. It's been out there, but for whatever reason,

it was at 1993, everywhere else. How does something like this happen? Dude, your guess is as good as mine, but, looking at birth records here, Kevin, I don't know.

I think what we can, we can all agree on, is that Fiba is the more accurate and better league. Clearly. I think that's what we're getting at here. Yeah, I don't know if that really, if anything really changes with, with this.

I mean, he's in his mid-20s now. Like, either way. He isn't like 18 versus 19 or something. It's just not a big deal. Like, just because M-Ba Twitter says it doesn't mean anything, that's for sure. It's definitely not a big deal.

This was the conversation with him prior to the draft. It's too old. Shouldn't it be a lottery pick. And right now, what difference does it make? 25, 26 years. old. I think we've seen with enough players across the league that development is different for everybody. And Buddy Heald is somebody who was a late bloomer in high school, a late bloomer in

college. And right now, apparently a late bloomer in the NBA. And he's becoming the player at age 26 that he's probably going to be for the rest of his crew now. I think there's still a little ways he can get better. But Buddy Heald has developed into a guy who is one of the best shooters in basketball and can do some other little things for you. We've talked about. about him before, Danny. You mentioned how that high-tempo Sacramento offense has been so good for him. Yeah, and look, he's scoring 20 points a game this season. It's not like he's a failure because he's one year older, you know? Oh, of course not. So we're going to take a quick break, and when we're back, we're going to talk about three of the five worst teams in the NBA.

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Now, back to the corner three. All right, we're back. We're going to talk about some bad teams here, guys. Bottom five teams right now. Chicago Bulls are 7 and 25. Hawks 7 and 23. Phoenix Suns and Cleveland Cavaliers are 8 and 24, and then Knicks are 9 and 24. These teams are pretty much locked into the bottom five.

Things can obviously change over the course of the season, but these seem to be the five-orst teams in the league. We're going to discuss three of them for time purposes. Let's start off with you, John. Which one do we want to discuss first? I want to talk about the Phoenix Suns, man. This has been a really interesting team for as bad as they've been. I find myself watching Suns games far more than I should.

I think in this last four games they've been winning games. I think they've actually found some pretty good lineups. I'm pretty excited for them going forward. I think the big thing is they have Booker, Mikhail Bridges, and T.J. Warren,

and that's a pretty good group of three wings together. So you have Booker as a primary guy, Warren's your secondary guy, Bridges is your 3-D guy. And the player they've really been playing well for them lately is the Anthony Melton.

They put him in as kind of like a 3-D point guard and he's kind of been the like Patrick Beverly to Booker's James Harden. Ooh. And so if you,

if you look at their lineups, if you go like Booker, Melton, Warren Bridges, they're plus 8.6 and 71 minutes. Then Booker, Bridges, and Warren,

that's three guys. It's plus 5.6 and 235. And then Booker and Bridges together, it's plus 7.3 and 324. And I think those four, then you have DeAndre ad and et cetera, and you've got the two wings off the bench, Josh Jackson,

Kelly, Uber. Who knows what they are. But I think they've kind of got a good lineup now. I think they're going to be a pretty decent team going forward. They have pieces for sure. I think the one thing with this team, when Devin Brucker was out this season, they lacked that stabilizing force that I think made those younger pieces that you're talking about,

John, look as impressive as they are. But now that he's back, he's that piece that enhances them. De Anthony Melton specifically, getting him from Houston, seems to be a bit of a steal with his defense and his early play so far this year. Absolutely. Yeah, I actually had a kind of a hot take. at the beginning of the season, I don't know if it ever went up,

but I do remember having Keith Fujimoto, one of our social guys, record me saying that Melton was going to be more important to the Suns than Aiton. Oh, that's fantastic. I love it. This is basically me straight, like, overreacting to Summer League.

Like, he had such a good Summer League. That's on NBA desktop spice. Getting Melton and Bridges, I think those two trades might have really done the Suns, service. I think that like two underrated moves, like McDonough's last two moves might have been two of his better ones in Phoenix.

It's kind of funny with that Bridges trade. The talk at the time of that move was why do they give up an unprotected 20-21 pick to the Philadelphia 76ers to make that happen? And yes, that could turn out to be a mistake if Miami stinks that year, but that's not going to be the year of the double draft. If that pick is 20 or even

15 for that matter, with everything that's unfortunately going on with Zier-Smith right now and with McHale Bridges being that really quintessential three and D style player in today's league,

that could turn out to be a really smart move for Phoenix. Yeah, I mean, they have Devin Booker, and then you just kind of find

peace that makes sense around them. And so they really had to start building a team. And so it was definitely worth it to expand a future

asset to put a younger guy around Booker who makes him a better player. It was really interesting watching the Celtics

game that they won on Wednesday. I was watching the Celtics broadcast, and they really didn't have anything bad to say about the Suns.

Like, they, they were like, yeah, no, this is a really fun, like, feisty team to watch. And it was interesting to see, like, over the past five games, this kind of inversion of their reputation from the entire season. Yeah, I mean, they just found some good lineups. Like, that's where I think with Krakashkov is impressed me, is like he's been flexible enough to try a bunch of different things.

I think now he just stumbled on to something. We'll see if it holds up, obviously. Are you guys as surprised as I am that Devin Booker has turned into this player? because Kentucky, I liked Booker. I thought he was going to be a good player, a really good shooter. But I never imagined him becoming the, not only the pick and all scoring force that he's become, but his playmaking has come so far.

And just a short amount of time, it's only his fourth season now. Yeah, I think that's what separates Booker from the other young two guards around the league. You know, guys like Jamal Murray, Gary Harris, Donovan Mitchell, is the ability to make other guys, Zach Levine. Like, Booker makes guys better.

I think that's what the most impressive. And yeah, he didn't do it at Kentucky, but now he's doing it now. It looks great. Yeah, I think the moment I realized that this was going to be a thing, like Point Booker was going to be a thing, was maybe two years ago when they really started ramping up his, like, pick and roll usage. I was like, oh, wow. Okay, so they were really banking on him developing as a lead playmaker.

And they showed signs of it in his rookie year even. But, I mean, the past two seasons have been. really stunning. I will say watching Booker play like this, I mean, to me, I wish they could play Booker and Luca together and like two of those same kind of players. Can you imagine those two guys in the same team? That's such a shame looking back on it.

It would have been exciting to watch. And I could see the logic, though, and going with Aiton, though. I just can. I mean, Aiton has developed pretty well earlier on this season. His defense still has questions, but I thought he's also had some real positive moments on the end of the floor, too. And he's still not

shooting threes yet. I think there's no guarantee he'll be a good three-point shooter. His deep mid-range shot is flat. He hasn't shot that well particularly well this year either. But over time, I think he still should at least be able to develop a competent three-point shot, at least at a M-Bede level, like a 30-31% shot from three. So when you factor in everything else for him with his ability to rim run, his passing ability, and you would hope continued progress on defense, it's not that they went wrong with the Andre.

and it just would have been really exciting to see that duo with Luca. You know what I wonder? What happens if they get the number one pick and they get Zion? All of a sudden, it's like, how does Zion and Aden fit together, right? Like, that could get really interesting.

Is there enough spacing with that front core? I don't know what there is. And at that point, it's like, hey, man, Aidan, we got a better player. Yeah, I've talked to some Suns fans. And in that situation, I think, you draft Zion, you see how it is, and then if Zion turns out to be, you know,

the next god, you trade aid. I guess we're getting ahead of ourselves now, but. Danny, who are we going to talk about next? I am kind of morbidly interested in the Hawks who actually have gotten a lot of good PR this week. There have been multiple John Collins features written about him, about how, you know, he doesn't have plays run for him, and yet he's averaging, you know, he's basically a walking double-double.

But, yeah, I think there are interesting concerns about, like, his future and, you know, where he fits in on a team that doesn't really have a star. Like, is he just a bad, a good, stats, bad team kind of guy? Or what are you guys seeing in John Collins? Well, to me, the question with Collins has always been the question is, like, we're building with him. Is he a four or a four, like, a four? Like, is he going to have him with my room or a five? And the number of interest, John thought I mean I was looking at it.

So he has played 73 minutes without Deadman or Len this season, and they have a defensive rating of 117.8 in those minutes. So, like, can he be a five or are you going to have to maneuver things around to keep him at the four? This is a situation in which I could totally see Zion just stepping in, small ball five, except you can probably play him full time at the five because of how big he is. Him and John Collins would be maybe the most explosive front line.

It'd be fun to watch, a lot of Ali-U. Oh, yeah. At least a new Lob City kind of stuff, man. Absolutely. You know what? I got to give a shout out to my guy, Kevin Herder. He's been really, really good ever since taking over as a full-time starter in the back court. So in the past 11 games, he's shooting 48.7% from the field.

48 from 3 on 4.5 attempts. 10 points a game, 3 rebounds a game, 3 assists a game. He kind of has the entire package. having a guy like him on a struggling team like the Hawks really like it gives you a sense of okay as long once they get their star Kevin Herder is going to make a lot more sense for this team because he can hit the three from almost any conceivable situation that's that's kind of like his value and utility in the league

that was the appeal of the Trey young Kevin Hurder back court combination where either of those guys can handle either of those guys can space the floor granted Young is your primary playmaker. Herder could do it in a secondary capacity. I think to your point, Danny, where you talk about when this team is better, that's where Herder is going to make most sense. It's interesting to look back on it.

In the middle of that draft, there was like six shooting guards taken. And Werder was the last, he was behind like Jerome Robinson, DeVenchenzo, Lonnie Walker. And she can see how that plays out of next two or three years. And who ended up being right in which two guard? Tray Young this season is scoring in the 12th percentile, according to Synergy Sports. He's been incredibly inefficient. Despite the fact, he's came into the league as a three-point shooter.

He's shooting only 25% from three. This is somewhat expected early struggles for Tray Young, considering the fact he's a small point guard. But after his early season surge, it would have been nice to see these numbers be a little bit better than they've been. Is there a reason for concern, or are you just brushing this off? It's another young point guard

who's struggling early. No big deal. I mean, I feel like there has to be a little bit of concern because, one, he's just, he's very small. I think the adjustment period for a guy like

Trey Young is definitely different than a lot of the other kind of more star point guard prospects that we've seen in the past. Him shooting 25% from three on the season is like not a good look. It's part of the growing growing process.

I'm personally concerned. I mean, I just wonder, it's more like with Young, we knew it would take a while, but if he really struggles in the Hawks draft and more of a point guard guy in next year's draft, all of a sudden it's he kind of de-emphasized. That's what I would worry about if I was Tray Young. Like, you look at what Dennis Smith and Dallas,

they draft Luke and Dennis kind of yesterday's news. And with Trey Young, he's been such a ball-dominant player lately. If he's off the ball, how's he going to do? I don't know. And you mean if they draft him? like an RJ Barrett. Yeah, yeah, that kind of guy. That would raise an interesting question for Atlanta moving forward.

And then maybe this was shitty to say only during his rookie season. But if then Trae Young suddenly becomes your future sixth man, spark plug scorer off the bench, and that's not what you want when you traded from three to five down to get him. I mean, it's just all about the role on his team. I mean, yeah, it's all about how they decided build around him. I mentioned this earlier, but do you think Atlanta should take on that money? if the opportunity is there to take on a, take on somebody like Brennan Knight for another first round.

I think so. I think so for sure. I think they have nothing else to lose. Keep getting young players, see who works, who doesn't. The third team that we're going to discuss from the bottom five teams, I want to talk about the Chicago Bulls.

With Jim Boyle and his head coach, they have been no better than they were with Fred Poiberg. Only differences they're now ranking first in the NBA and push-ups and suicide sprints. But that is not translated onto wins on the course. advanced statistics right there. They are. I mean, that's the next next generation camera. Good stats to lead in. Good stats to lead in, but it's not translated

out to wins in the court. This team has slowed its pace. Wendell Carter suddenly looks lost on the floor. He's only attempted, I believe, one three-pointer in the Jim Boylan ever after attempting about one per game with Hoyberg. And he is

somebody with Lowry Markin and back on the floor. I was excited to see that duo and they've had some moments together. I'm playing high, low with Carter from the elbows and Markan and diving to the rim. That's been exciting. But Carter as of late has

looked lost. He just is not even looking at the basket sometimes. And I don't know if this is more of a mandate not to shoot from outside for him, from the coaching staff. That wouldn't be surprising. Yeah, it wouldn't be. It wouldn't be, John. But why? But why?

Old school. It's very unusual. It's very unusual, and that has me a little bit nervous with Wendell Carter. I'm not overreacting here, but shooting only 19.2% from 3, not shooting the ball well from deep mid-range

either. It's just odd to see his style suddenly flip so quickly mid-year. Yeah, Stephen Noe of the Athletic, who writes about the Bulls. He was just like, he had a bunch of these clips where Wendell's just not looking at

the basket. And it was so, strange to me. And the only way that I can really, and this is a joke, obviously, but the only way I could really imagine why this is happening is like, I'm just imagining Jim Boyle in being like, Wendell just visualized the basket and like, you'll be fine. And he took that literally. And like, so he's just visualizing the basket anywhere other than where the basket actually is. So like, I don't know. It's those clips that Stephen clipped, it was just like confounding.

See, here's my thing. So I did a big story on Brooke Lopez and the Bucks yesterday and it was interesting about that. So Brooks taking like eight threes a game from the center position and it's made everyone in Milwaukee so much better. And I'm just like kind of wondering

like what would it look like with Lowry and like a bunch of, Lowry at the five, no other bigs in the floor and the rim is wide open. I kind of wonder how that kind of lineup would look like And so I wonder, how much should they even be planning their Lowry and Wendell and are still even more staggering their minutes? Interesting.

I think with their front court rotation with Bobby Porter's integrated in that, and then Brooks brother, Robin Lopez, still receiving minutes. I think it's probably tough for Boylan to put Laurie at the five for extended minutes. But I think you're talking about moving forward when you're building this team out, right? Yeah. I wonder how much Lari can handle playing the five over a full season. I wonder. That's what I'd be curious.

With all these big men, I'm always wondering, like, what kind of position can you put them in and how does that affect everybody else? And it'd be interesting to see him at the five. Even with Brooke Lopez, you still see him next to Erson,

Elias over here and there too. I do think, I do wonder if that's something you move towards, moving forward with Chicago. But again, like, even with some of these guys on the draft, like if you're drafting Zion or RJ Barrett, both of those guys have shaky jump shots.

I'm not convinced Zion is going to be a plus three-point shooter. at all. She's only shooting, I think, below 20% from three this year at Duke. His shot is, doesn't look great either. And then RJ Barrett, a permanent oriented player, only around 30% from three, average off the catch, doesn't necessarily have the best range off the dribble yet. I think with both of those guys, it's still spacing questions. And that's where Larry at the five becomes interesting. Because if you have Laurie at the five, there's so many more lanes for those guys to attack the rim. Would you guys put, Lowry, Wendell, and Zion

on the floor at the same time? I mean, I think... I'm sure you try it, but I think if they drafts Zion, I'm not sure Wendell is long for Chicago at that point. Is there any reason for optimism for this team moving forward besides Lerary Markerner and Wendell Carter moving forward, John?

I've liked Levine. I mean, obviously, Levine's struggling in this massive offensive role, but I think he's really should a lot of growth this season. I've always been a Levine guy, and I think he's a good long-term piece. Beyond those three, I don't know. Maybe Chandler Hutchinson.

he's been okay as a rookie. How about you, Danny? Any Fetty? You know what? Yeah, Chandler Hutchinson and Chris Dunner on my fantasy team. So, you know, I'm really looking forward to them being excellent, excellent NBA players. Wait, is this a bad fantasy team or a good fantasy team? I know about your fantasy team, Danny, how deep it is.

I want more people to understand what weird fantasy league this is. It's fascinating. Yeah, for the past two seasons, I've been in a 12-man. I think it actually expanded to 16. man this year, but we basically draft 400 players. Yeah.

So, like, we basically draft the entire talent pool of the league. I mean, if you got Chandler Hutchison on a fantasy team, you should be pretty deep on that. Yeah. It's pretty rough.

You should probably be at the G-League showcase right now, Danny. Scouting players for your fantasy team, because, like, if you can get an edge, if you can get an edge on the next guy who's going to get a team. 10-day contract or a two-way deal, that could lead to a championship for your team in fantasy sports.

Yeah, I'm on the outside of the playoff picture right now, but I'm basically there. I'm fascinated by the team-building strategy. I feel like you... Okay, see, I'm not terribly fascinated by it. Yeah, let's move on, yeah. Let's move on. Okay. It's got a big fantasy league. It's so kind of interesting, but, you know.

After the break, we're going to talk about some of the best games coming up this weekend. Quina3 is brought to you today by SimpliSafe. We all put off doing things we know we need to do. I mean, we know we need to organize a garage or go get the flu shot, but something always gets in the way. Security can be like that, too. You know, it's a good idea, but it always slips down the list of priorities. Well, SimpliSafe believes nothing should come between you and protecting your home. So they've gotten rid of the reasons not to get home security.

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And now back to the corner three. And we're back. Let's throw our outlet to the weekend, starting off with our NBA watch of the night. Celtics are hosting the Bucks at home tonight, a battle of two top Eastern Conference teams. Danny, what makes this game so interesting tonight? I just think having a rematch of one of the best games of the early season, the Celtics beat the Bucks in, I think, early November, 117, 113. These are two of the top, like, brands of the Eastern Conference.

the types of teams that you're like, okay, for the next five years, these are the two teams that are going to be on top. So just having another opportunity to see, you know, potentially a playoff atmosphere game. Sign me up. Celtics have sputtered as of late as well.

They've lost two in a row, including that game we mentioned earlier against the Phoenix Suns, lost to the Detroit prior to that as well. Interested to see how they respond tonight. Carrey Irving has been on a tier as of late. Ever since cutting his hair, early in the season,

Kyrie Irving has been playing at an all NBA level. Without Aaron Baines tonight against... And no Al-Althorfer too. No, no Al-Hawford either. That'll be interesting to see how Boston plays

with Daniel Tice. And then Robert Williams, the Time Lord, one of the best nicknames in basketball against this veteran Milwaukee Buck's front court. How'd be like William's so far,

KOC? He's been really good. I think Robert Williams improved the two things that were problematic for him at Texas A&M. effort and then fundamentals. I think in those two areas,

he's been a lot better overall early of the season for Boston. Get an opportunity to see that tonight. He only played two seconds the last time they met. Time Lord. All right. So Buck Celtics tonight, that's going to be our NBA watch of the night. And remember, if you want to watch every NBA game, subscribe

to NBA League Pass on NBA.com, Amazon, or your local cable or satellite provider. How about this weekend? What's the number one game we're looking forward to, John? I mean, to me, it's Raptors. Raptor Sixers. I hope Kauai plays. I remember the last two times Kauai's played Ben Simmons. He's had like 20 turnovers or something. So it's interesting to see if Ben Simmons has kind of learned a few tricks after he's made any adjustments to have Kauai plays defense. That's always a fun matchup. Yeah, and it's going to be interesting to see if

Sergei Baca plays, because if not, M.B., it's probably just going to feasts on this team. Oh, yeah, they had Greg Monroe, right? They've had Greg Monroe starting at Center for past couple games and it's, it's been interesting. Well, they're still winning, right, with Monroe at center? Absolutely. Yeah, they had that huge win against the Pacers. The machine just keeps on rolling. Toronto's 5 and 5 in their last 10.

Are we still buying them as the number one Eastern Commerce finals contender in the East? Yeah, I think so. I think once, especially if they have all of their pieces healthy by the end of, you know, the regular season, I don't see a reason to doubt them. their depth is just unreal. Yeah, and especially even in the playoffs,

despite they have this depth, they can go 10 to 11 guys if they want to, but when they're going 8, 9 guys, and they're picking and choosing, depending on a matchup or a situation, which depth piece they want to add into that rotation, it's hard to go against them with Kauai playing at the level that he already is, and I think projecting him forward when he's truly at 100%,

the level that they can reach, come in a playoff situation. Yeah, they're just so well, Even compared to their elite teams in the east, I feel like Toronto doesn't have any really glaring weaknesses or areas. I'm going to attack that part of their team. They're just really well-bounded. They have a great player in the middle of it. It's a fun team. That's all we have time for.

We're looking forward to next Friday. Next week's Ringer NBA show is going to be scaled back. We're going to have a heat check on Christmas Eve. Me and Chris Vernon are going to be back with the mismatch the day after Christmas reacting to all the Christmas Day games. And then we, the corner three, are going to be back next Friday. So look for that on next week's runner NBA show. Please give us a five-star rating on iTunes. Tell everybody you know to it at your holiday parties this weekend.

Special shout out to Bobby Wagner for producing the podcast and my good friend Elon for listening to the show. Thank you again. We'll be back next Friday. Have a good one. Happy holidays. Yeah, Merry Christmas, y'all.