The Ringer NBA Show - Which Teams Should Buy, Sell, or Stay Put as Trade Season Begins | Group Chat

Episode Date: December 13, 2023

Justin, Rob, and Wos take a look at five teams at the start of trade season to determine whether they should be buyers, sellers, or stay put in the coming months Intro (00:00). New Orleans Pelicans (11:50) Chicago Bulls (30:00) Cleveland Cavaliers (37:50) Memphis Grizzlies (49:03) Atlanta Hawks (57:20) The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Verrier and joining me. As always, Rob Mahoney and back from the dead, back from Vegas. It's Big Was. What's up, Waz? Feels great to be alive. Feels good to be back. Yes, I did catch a little bug out there in the desert,

but I'm back to life thanks to my sterling healthcare from Spotify. And the great people at Urgent Care, man, they brought me back to life. I'm proud to be back with you boys. Well, we were lost without you. We started talking about the tournament and then we wound up talking about the pistons and the spurs. It got really dark. Yeah, people are calling that podcast long. The critics have reviews in and they're saying it was long. I would say, but some people are saying substantial, you know, thorough, perhaps. Robust? Robust, certain. Thematically robust, I think is what that podcast was.

Love that. Okay. Love that. Okay. Love that. a robust situation. Sure, especially during these holiday times, you know, a corocopia of action about the worst teams in the league. You know what's funny about that podcast?

Actually, I was listening back to it because I had a lot of errands to run and frankly, I ran out of other podcasts to listen to. Okay, we need to interrogate this at some point, but continue your story for now. I'm a psychopath.

But at a certain point, we talked about the Raptors, which weren't the subject of the podcast. No. And I brought up my theory, about Messiah Jerry and you called it a thesis and then you proceeded to interrogate that thesis and I was like, this is when it went wrong. True bloggers, no.

It was, we spent literally 30 minutes talking about Martin Scorsese in the middle of that podcast. I don't know what happened. But was, you actually had some action going down while Rob and I were talking about, I don't know, the plight of society, at least American society. Tell us about your travails in Vegas. How was the tournament action? How was the whole weekend?

Yeah, I mean, I loved it, man. Night number one, Thursday night, although it did start early in the afternoon. At 2 p.m., I was very, I was very enthralled by the action. The Pacers made that first game so entertaining, particularly Tyrese Halliburton. Just his energy and verve and just his understanding of the moment and the stage that he was on for the first time in his NBA career. Them just seasoned the day there. We talked a lot about, you know, body language police, me and Bill and Rob on Bill's podcast. I thought the Bucks, you know, they leave a little bit to be desired, man.

I'll say this about the Bucks as dynamic as their offense could be. I thought against a team like the Pacers to be that much bigger than them, they were working too hard to get their buckets. And I think it affected their defense, honestly. If they could get it to a point where, you know, a team with a big man rotation is porous as Indiana's, they can just sort of automate their offense

and not have to expend every... Like Janus is breaking out his best one-on-one moves on every possession against knee-Smith in order for this team to get efficient buckets, I thought that was something that sort of, you know, I raised my eyebrow. And obviously the defense was terrible. But the atmosphere in the building was outstanding. And by the time of Lakers and Pelicans started, it was just great.

Like, it felt like a big game, honestly. And the way LeBron played and, you know, the hamming it up with the crowd and all of that, that felt like a big game. And, you know, the championship game was more of the same back crowd. Obviously, if it's going to be in Vegas, it's going to be a heavily, Lakers partisan crowd, which didn't disappoint. I think my favorite thing, God, just anecdotally, so I ended up going to sit with some buddies in a different section

than the media section. You're too good for the media section. Huh? I said Adam Silver. Rob said you're too good for media. No, I would never say that, but I didn't stay in my media Z. You implied it. That's just what happened.

Just the fact. And there were these fans, and I don't think they were, no, half, it was five guys, three Lakers fans and two, I guess it's just general fans, gambling fans type of situation. And every time Austin Reeves did anything on the court, Lakers fans were oohing and eyeing. And these two fans at the end were so annoyed. They were just like, this dude has to just breathe. Then these freaking people lose their minds. It's so annoying. I just love that sort of, you know, that atmosphere that the Vegas basketball crowd

generally brings, right? Like people yelling at Janus because they got the over and stuff like that, like that. That stuff is kind of hilarious to me, even if it can get semi-toxic. So the games were great. The events went off without a hitch. Vegas obviously is like an incredible city to host any event. this past weekend happened to be rodeo week and a half.

The rodeo championships, Rob. Why am I getting called into this? Well, you know, Texas, Tejas. So I got off the plane and get to the Uber section at LAX and there's this woman with two of her kids. All three of them, two of her daughters, all three of them have cowboy hats stacked up on their head because they have to have multiple hats

for the multiple events that they're going to. throughout the trip. That's just common sense, Waz. It's like when you're packing shoes, you wear the bulkier shoes and you pack the lighter shoes for space. You can't be packing three hats. You know,

you got to wear your biggest 10-gallon look right on the plane. I've never heard of this. So many big belt buckles. So many big belt. Yo, Justin, it was crazy the amount of cowboys that were in Vegas this past weekend.

But, yeah, man, just a great atmosphere. I thought they executed this quite, you know, gracefully to be to be real. And I can't wait for next year's version of this. And I think they'll, they'll be better at marketing this thing and getting people to care about it even more and tweaking the scheduling quirks and all of that. It's just going to get better and better and better. Here's my question. How many hats does Bruce Brown bring to an event like this? Are we talking

four or five, some dinner hats, some lunch hats, some, some buffet hats. He seems like a one to two had man at this point. But to put it in context. Is that good or bad? I think that's, you know, it's respectful variety, but it's not ostentatious. I forget whose story it was, but one of his teammates got him a cowboy hat holder for when he travels. I know who story?

I know his story. This was. It was Rob's story. Yeah. Shout out to one of the few Stetson endorsers in the NBA, Bruce Brown. He's got to figure it out, man. But yeah. I think, look, it's a great thing for the fans of the team, but if you're a general NBA fan,

you should absolutely try to get to Vegas next year to watch these games. The tickets weren't completely unreasonable. Like, it was a good time. And I think that's when it's really going to pop in the way that Summer League does, is when people start thinking about the in-season tournament in Vegas as a long weekend event where you show up and it's like a who's who of NBA royalty, Legends of the game coaches past and present

obviously the teams who are on the ground there but part of the fun of summer league is just seeing who's on the floor of the casino where you're staying and I think... Your favorite podcasters, Was Mahoney. As he's known.

Yeah, we did a version of this podcast for 10 to 15 minutes before for the listeners and we had to scrap it because of errors like that. We're cutting this. They don't get the look behind the curtain. They don't get to see how the sausage is made. Yeah.

Yeah, this is a better version. Don't worry. But no, why, did anyone hit you up about a parlay? Like, maybe they really hit on one of our fan dual ad reads. Nobody talked to me about their parlayes, but I was with somebody who did cash a $4,300 Laker ticket on the three and a half. And that same person was telling me before the game, free money, Halliburton under 28.

Was it KOC? No, it was a KLC. Well, yeah, that was free money, which was a bet that ended up hitting. But I didn't go to the sports book. I think I will next time, man. Just for the fun of it to add some little juice to my viewing experience. But yeah, man, just I thought the event was fantastic. Well, we're glad to have you back here, especially because we're going to be talking about,

at least one of the teams you saw in person there, the New Orleans Pelicans. We're going to welcome in trade season by doing a little buy sell or stay put. for five teams that are kind of in the middle of the standings. This was actually kind of hard to identify the right teams for this because there are, we should mention, a lot of teams that are doing well this year and are clear-cut buyers. Like, and the sellers are really the dregs of the league, the pistons, the spurs, which you could hear Rob and I talk about for hours on net on last week's podcast, if you so choose. But I mean, we should probably stop here, Rob and say like, the market seems a little weird than usual. I know it's early. It's December 15th. We're doing

this because a lot of the players signed in the offseason are now available to be traded, at least on Friday on the 15th. But it feels like the league is so top-heavy. I wonder if they're going to be enough sellers in order to feed some of these teams that are looking for an upgrade. Yeah. And that's why the market kind of opens this week with the eligibility of those players, you know, being available for trade.

But ultimately, what's going to shake it loose is when somebody gets hurt. somebody needs either a player on a good team needs to be replaced or what we think of as a good team now starts plummeting in the standings because they don't have their star players anymore because yeah right now there's there's way more buyers than sellers and what that's going to do for the sellers market is going to be fascinating to watch like if you are one of these few teams that has kind of a first mover advantage on putting good players on the market

could you get more in in return for players like that at this point Draymond chokes out your best player. You have to replace him on the fly. Somebody's got to replace him. I mean, he's just going to spend half this season in suspension at this point. So they need a backup. Yeah,

we could save that for a different podcast. But I'm sure by the time we get done with this recording, if we don't have to do it four more times, I think Draymond's going to be sitting out for a little bit longer. So we'll have time. But we should get into this. Let's start with the New Orleans Pelicans, the team that was you saw in person in Vegas.

you saw the bad version of Zion and I'm curious what that was like the overweight 13 point just dogging it on the floor to the Lakers but then a couple nights later against the wolves he scores 36 points so this is the roller coaster the pelicans are on I'm curious

at this point should the pelicans be looking to trade Zion and actually could they even do it considering he can still play like one of the best players in the world look I'm not breaking any news here by telling the listeners that the Pelicans put Zion on the trade market last summer, there were no takers. Nobody was biting.

Nobody wanted to deploy any meaningful resources for the purposes of bringing Zion Williamson into their building. And we know the reasons why. The mess of his personal life this offseason being one, his injury history, extensive injury history being another, the rumors of his lack of dedication and focus to the work that needs to put in to become the most polished version of himself as a professional being another. There's just a myriad of reasons why you don't bring Zion Williamson in and trade a lot of stuff

for the honor of doing so. That being said, I think New Orleans is fixed this year. It has to be more consistent play from Zion. Normally, we look at a team that has a Zion that has Brandon Ingram and a CJ-McC., column these ball dominant type of guys who can produce efficient offense at their best. Oh, they need role players that sort of prop up, you know, some of the weaknesses of their individual games. And New Orleans has that.

I feel like they have a lot of pretty decent to good role players. Like, they got the kind of role players that people might say, hey, they might have an abundance. Maybe they might want to get off of a Dyson Daniels. You know, maybe they might want to get off of a Herb. So, like, you know, I think their role player situation is great. And so if you're not trading for a star to come in there, it's just your stars have to be better. And to me, that's the ultimate fix in New Orleans. Now, if you box me in and say, what do they really need?

What would I like to see them have a better connector, table setter, you know, somebody that keeps the ball moving because it gets sticky with their three main guys, super sticky. And so somebody who was a better, you know, person that's setting people. people up, I think would be fantastic, but I don't think any of those guys are on the market, right? Like, there's only but so many Mike Connley's that exist in the NBA, you feel me? And so, like, that's the only thing I could see making a material difference immediately on this team. Somebody who could come in and be like a Derek White type, right? Like, that type of player, you know, a connector glue type of player would be incredible,

but I don't see that guy out there for them at the moment. a loneso ball a healthy lanzo ball that used to be over this look we'd love a healthy lanzo ball for a lot of teams frankly but what I'm having trouble with with the pelicans is

I agree with you wise that their role players are generally very good generally very well fitting around this like star core and this team should be a little bit better than it is but also not only do Zion and ingram need to be better and I would put that more on Zion than Ingram I think Ingram's been pretty good

this season and has been their best player this season easily their best player this season. Although, I will say, nine points in the Lakers game. I think his biggest advantage is having Zion to take all the bullets for him. It doesn't hurt. And between those two guys,

the erratic nature of their play at times, plus their injury histories collectively, they make it, it makes it very hard to know who on this roster is even expendable. Because in theory, if you want to start putting some trades together for the Pelicans,

I think we're probably all in agreement. This is a team that needs, that needs to be in buy mode. They have young players they can package together. They've got some veterans they can potentially move. They've got picks that they could put into deals to sweeten them. And right now in the standings, they've got a lot of room to move up and a lot of want to move up.

The problem is, can you afford to lose Jonas Valenciunis when he's the only reliable big on your roster beyond Zion at this point? Like, can you put these guys into deals not knowing what you're going to get from Zion on a day-to-day, much less week-to-week basis? Yeah, that's why I wonder if, yes, certainly they could change some stuff on the fringes to improve, like, marginally. I do wonder at a certain point, you have to take a step back and wonder if this is a foundational issue. Like, because not only is it Zion whether or not he's going to show up on a night to night, it's also like, is Brandon Ingram going to be there night tonight?

Like certainly doesn't have the same sort of extremes that I think Zion does. But like he tends to float at times. He's a little bit more easygoing. he needs the Herb Joneses and the Alvaradoes to really spur him to be his best version. And there's also the more complicated on court fit of like, should he have the ball in his hands more because he's not really spotting up from three? And like he's always been more willing to take a pull up from midrange than he is on the perimeter. And so I almost wonder because of that was, do you think you have to take a step back and say,

well, maybe we should try to find the best trade for Zion. And I know it's like it's going to be tough. The market suggests this summer that that's not there. But I almost wonder if you have to have that conversation again. We could talk through some of the teams that might be interested. But like, I'm at the point where I think I am ready to have that conversation if I'm New Orleans. Look, if you could somehow find a star for star that is more complimentary of one of the guys that you keep, whether it be Zion and Ingram, then go for it. I think the classic version of this deal is Indiana and Sacramento, right,

where it felt like there was some redundancies at the big and point guard position, lead guard position, if you will, and they swap players, you know, who at the time were at the same point of their careers, upper echelon, above average, starter type of players. And then they become stars in their new roles, right, on their new teams because the lack of these redundancies in their new homes. Outside of that, I'm not trading Zion or Brandon Ingram, unless I could get an actual starback who happens to be more complimentary.

You know, like, to me, the ceilings of what Zion and Brandon Ingram bring on a night to night, to me, you can't just trade so you can get, you know, we're just going to be so good at the role player position. I don't believe in that. You know, if they could bring in, you know, let's just say hypothetically, not that this can happen, but let's just say hypothetically the heat we're crazy enough to say, yo, we want to give you Bam out of bio for Zion. I'd be like, you know what? This dude obviously nowhere near the offensive player that Zion is, but he turns me into elite defense tomorrow.

And his offense is enough to play around and he's actually a connector at the big position and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right? Like somebody who was more complimentary but was also a star, all-star level. All-Star level. All-All-Star level. But outside of that, I'm just, come on, man. I'm not taking on your scraps so I can send you all-star players.

No, thank you. Definitely not. Especially when, if anything, the position the Pelicans are in in terms of their roster and their future picks kind of positions them in consolidation mode. They are a team that needs to tighten things up rather than let things lose.

So the idea of trading Zion for two good players or three good players or two players and a good pick. I don't know that that's really helping your overall outlook if you're the Pelicans. Yeah, but you say that, but then you got to start factory in the luxury tax, which in New Orleans matters way more than it does in some of these other situations. And now, I believe based on giving Herb Jones in offseason extension, they are in position to be over that. But I think that's the first time, I believe, in franchise history to the point where when I was in Summerlee, the thing that people wanted to talk to me about was, are the Pelicans actually going to pay the luxury tax. And so I wonder, is this the type of team that can go

all in and do something like that? Or could they even add marginal upgrades on the fringes, trade a rookie scale contract like a Jordan Hawkins for a true blue veteran player making adult money? I think it's a very complicated balance to do there. And so I wonder, is accepting being good and getting and finding other pieces to support Brandon Ingram, not an ideal outcome for anyone, because Zion was billed as the face of the league, future All-Star next Wembenyama before-Webbenyama sort of type of player.

Do you have to maybe accept reality, Rob, and just go forward with just an okay version? Like, can Brandon Ingram, here's a good question. Can Brandon Ingram be the best player on a very good team? Not if he's on that island alone. I think the threat that Zion presents is important and does him a lot of good in particular. Does Ingram a lot of good in particular?

Zion isn't going to always live up to his star billing in these games. And frankly, the Pelicans' offense doesn't feature him like a star in a lot of these games. But having him on the floor matters, having him be a factor in this offense matters. And if it is Brandon Ingram and four good role players, or however you want to classify C.J. McCollum, maybe he's a little bit more than that.

I just don't think that's a solvent strategy. I don't think that's really getting you anywhere. because I look at this team and I see, again, a team without a lot of definable, observable weakness and that's what makes them very maddening. I don't know where they're supposed to move up. And that pushes you into,

I think the easiest ways for the Pelicans to get better. One of them is to get a more willing and reliable three-point shooter in this mix. And getting Trey Murphy fully integrated and now that he's healthy and back in the mix will help. But this is a team that if you're going to play two bigs, being 26 and 3-point rate, ain't going to cut it. Like, you need real spacing.

So that's one option. But kind of zooming out, I think what you really need is either an offensive upgrade over C.J. McCollum, who's already a pretty good offensive player, or a defensive upgrade over Jonas Valenciunis. And I think the way you accomplish those, like, what makes it tricky for the Pelicans is they don't have a lot of other salary to cobble together here. So it's going to have to be CJ and some picks for a comparable

player or it's going to be like Jonas Valcunis, Larry Nance who also has been played by injury and his contract and some picks for another kind of player. But there's not a lot of kind of mixing and matching of contracts here that you can do to make like a solvent deal.

Yeah, who's in the $30 million range that they could viably trade for that would be better than C.J. McCollum. It's tricky. The Guarded Rosen, that don't even make no sense. Yeah. You know?

I could see a version where like maybe you try to plug and play a Pascal C. Ackham to maybe try to be a little bit more rip and run in the front court. You kind of reimagine who you are, but then like you're hoping that Zion is running. If we were talking athletically of Duke Zion, then I'd be like, you know what, man, this team can be. some type of swarming ass, amoeba type of defense. And, you know, on offense, they kind of figure it out via the one-on-one brilliance of their stars, right? Like Zion, the idea being like Zion is it possible to guard with a single person?

Once you have that kind of player, you can make the spacing issues kind of work because you can bend the defense to your will in certain kind of ways. And sometimes, you know, I think of the 2020 Lakers, the type of threes they would generate from Marquief Morris because of the gravity of AD and LeBron at the rim was just like, you know what, that guy's not a good three-pointing, but when he's shooting threes is practice threes. You know, we're leveraging the dominance of our two stars to just elevate the shot quality of pretty mediocre players around them, right?

When you have that level of dominance, you can do that. I don't know that Ingram and Zion can consistently attract. that type of gravity, that type of command, that type of respect from defenses. I think most defenses, it's like, look, if Brandon Ingram wants to dribble, dribble, mid-range me, fall away to me to death, I'm going to live with it. You know, that's how most teams are going to treat that, but who knows? Really the issue with Ingram and Zion that makes all of this so complicated is that both of those guys are effective zeros when they don't have the ball.

Like they do not contribute to your off ball offense. And to have two stars who operate that way and play multiple bigs at the same time, it just makes it so cluttered, so stodgy, so complex just to get like average possessions off the ground. And yeah, you're right, Justin, that one avenues to trade Zion and completely reconceptualize your team. That feels a little dramatic for me, given how talented this group is and how many players on their team that I like. I would like to see them pull some of their levers first before you really throw Zion through the trap door. Sure. Zion is the type of player

that you exhaust all options for. I get that. I have to say, though, they're getting close to that point. And I wonder if another couple months of this teeter tottering, maybe this is more of an off-season conversation, like I worry that we're going to get to that point at some point, especially like if he plays well, first of all, we have to worry about injury.

It hasn't even calculated into, that isn't accounted in this calculus here for this season. We're more focused on dispositional issues, conditioning issues. Maybe he gets her. That's always going to be in the back and remind. And if he is healthy, are you guys certain that he won't just hit the eject button and ask for a trade? Like, this is the type of place.

So I almost wonder we keep talking about this or that with the Pelicans. Like, I wonder if foundationally there's just something off here. And at a certain point, you have to be accepting of that. Yeah, I think the future. will reveal that truth, honestly, if I were a betting man, which I'm not, I'd bet that this group just doesn't work long term. I can't, can we even think of an NBA bunch that we were like, oh, God, they've never figured it out. And then one day it was like, oh, it's clicked now and it's happening. Like, not really. You know, even if you want to say the wolves of last year,

last year didn't work for injuries and whatever reason. Guess what? This year, right out the gate, it's working. Where is this right out the gate working for new? It's never been a thing. They had the nice series against the Suns, which they ultimately lost, but they put up more of a fight

than anybody thought that they would be because Zion wasn't playing. And then it's kind of been whatever. I think there has been a lot of hand-wringing over Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown over the years and whether they could operate together. all the while, they just kind of kept making... Come on.

They're getting to the conference finals. They're getting to the conference finals like every year, every other year. That's what I'm saying. It's a rich man. Just like, oh, maybe they can't win the championship. We're saying the Pelicans probably can't make it to the second round. Oh, no, no, totally. For a second, I thought you were poo-pooing making it to the conference finals.

That's a rarefied air, right? If people are being like, oh, this team just can't win a championship. Nobody's talking about championship with this team. We'd like to see them get to six games of a second round series. Is that too much to ask? Can I throw one out there that's never going to happen, but I like the thought experiment? Would you trade Zion to the Thunder for Jalen Williams J-dub? No.

Contracts and picks. No. From which side? Nice. Oh, I'm, I'm... See, he says J-dub. Sam, Sam Press. hanging up.

You think J-dub is going to one day be an all-MBA level player? No, I don't think the, I don't think the Thunder want those problems. Mm, the Zion situation. Yeah. They got a real collegial atmosphere. Zion's got more Vegas vibes to him if you get my drift.

I do think that would be what's best for Zion, though, to go into a boot camp like Miami, as well as said, like a thunder, someone with like a rigorous-ass sort of culture. and also it wouldn't be bad to go to Oklahoma where you aren't getting a lot of spices out there. There are no chefs being like he's going to eat the table out there. It's some good food in Miami, just a FYI. Yeah, Miami would be the opposite.

Can you imagine, you know how the heat have that conditioning test in training camp? Could you imagine if Zion got there and didn't pass and we were on training camp conditioning test watch with him? day four of Zion still not passing a test day eight of Zion still not good enough as far as body mass index and conditioning that oh my God

oh my God wow he couldn't cut it he would be straight up getting D&P did not pass the test in Miami it would be brutal I this is the thing was on it is he needs that kind of structure desperately and I don't think he could cut it if he got

it. So I don't know what to do with a player like that. What a fun experience. This is all for New Orleans. They lose AD. They luck into Zion and here you go. All right. Let's move along here. Number two, Chicago Bulls who are sick nowadays. Now that Zach Levine isn't in that lineup. They're four and two since Levine has gone down with, I believe, foot inflammation. The two losses. One was in overtime in Milwaukee, a game that they were very much in. yesterday's game on Tuesday against Denver, not so much. Yokic got tossed in that game for, I guess, saying a bad word on one technical, which was bizarre, and the Bulls couldn't come up with a win in that one.

But I think the question, the main question here, Rob, is, is this like a full tear-down sort of situation, which I think earlier in the season we thought it might be get rid of Derozen, get rid of Caruso, get rid of Levine? Or is this just the Levine problem? Can they actually maybe soft reboot this? get rid of Levine, maybe bank a draft pick. What do you think, Waz? Soft reboot this?

Come on, man. We have to stop at some point. Well, can I make the case? Like, it's like as if your alcoholic friend was like, come on, it's just a glass of wine. Come on. You know, we're not doing shots anymore. We're not just down in a whole bottle of jack anymore. It's just, you know, just a nice little, a glass of.

IPA. The soft rebuild is the opiate of the masses. You know, you really can't trust them with that. Well, here is the complicating factor. One is that they have been reasonably good and look pretty spunky with an Alts-Carruso. Even with DeRosen a little bit more optimized, it seems like they are the type of team that might be better than the sum of their parts. The big thing, though, is that they owe a first-round pick to the Spurs next year. And if you're going to be in the range of top 10, which is where the protections lie, like, why not actually try to take a step back this season in order to take a step forward next season, maybe even bring De Rosen back on like a short-term deal, like a two-year deal. You get a young player and hopefully you get that right.

That's actually probably a bigger problem is that their draft picks have only been marginally good. But then you're kind of, you're going from there as opposed to just thinking this is going to be a four or five year rebuild. Like they have done in the past and it hasn't really worked out. I just think if you're banking your plan on we're going to make a couple of moves now and then we're going to

resign Demar de Rosen and free agency, what happens if Demar de Rosen doesn't resign in free agency? Then you're just kind of left with a materially worse version of your team that you should have traded six months ago. So where I am right now with this team is I am willing to trade basically anyone on this roster

if I am the Chicago Bulls with these somewhat improbable exception of Kobe White, who has had a really nice season for them and was really kind of the lone bright spot outside of Alex Caruso, I would say, or some of the occasional wins in this stretch. But otherwise,

if you call about any of our veteran guys, I'm here for it. I'm taking those calls. If you call about Patrick Williams, who I do not want to pay on his next contract, I am perfectly willing to take that call, even though age-wise he could fit in the next version of the Bulls. I just don't see a reason to be precious

about anyone else on this roster at this. point. Yeah, this should be a total liquidation sale. Like when Bath and Body Works went out a complete business by me, they had that sale. Like, that's what the Bulls need to do right now. They need to totally liquidate every single thing on the roster. For me, selfishly, I'd like to see these guys be on real teams chasing real goals and aims. You know, I'd like to see Caruso back in the playoff hunt. I'd love to see Demar DeRosen as a veteran. I'd like to see Demar DeRoson as a veteran. in presence, helping a playoff contender. And same goes with Zach Levine.

To me, just, just sell it. Just sell it all off and cut your losses. Because this thing is over. You know, honestly, outside of the version that we saw when, when Lonzo, as, you know, as we mentioned earlier, was healthy, there's no other version of this team that's been like, oh, this team is like really good. You know, and probably they played some really good defense down the stretch of last season, shocked all of us. And that was nice to see.

But at the end of the day, they couldn't make it out the plan. They kind of choked that game away against Miami, if we're being honest. And, yeah, it's over. Why are we pretending that, like, something could turn around? The best player or the guy who's supposed to be the best player is in an open war with your head coach. You know, it's become public. That seems a little strong. I mean, it's obvious he don't rock with him

and that he's completely unhappy in Chicago, right? And even if he's not, you know, he's not doing Jimmy Butler in practice against Carl Anthony Towns, right? Like, he's not doing that. But he's obviously over the situation. They've lost Zach Levine. And so what, like, what are we holding on to the fact that Kobe White's been good for five games? That's the thing?

I think it's La Flama Blanca is what we're looking forward to, which is what the Bulls broadcast, at least in a little graphic they put up in yesterday's game called him, which I have to say is that's good shit right there. So here's White's past six while Levine has sat, 26 points, six rebounds, six assists, 51, 53, 88. I do not expect this. I thought White was a reserve player at best. And I think that's probably a good discussion topic, Rob, is like, is white, what is he going forward? Is he a version of this?

I would be surprised if he kept this up. But like, is he a starter? Or like, what do we have here? That's the thing. I want to find out. And in order to find out, I might need to trade Zach Levine. I might need to trade to Marjorosen. I may need to clear a little more room here to see, you know, I'm not projecting him as any kind of superstar talent.

But Chicago has this problem in a couple spots where Dale and Terry, for example, the 18th pick in the the draft last season. I don't even know if he's an NBA player. And I would like to find out personally if he can even stick it in the NBA, but this is a team that's been so desperate to tread water. This is the issue, Was. This is the issue. Instead of watching Demar de Rosen put up 41 and battle the bucks in overtime, you want

Dalyan Terry reps, is what you're saying. No, I want to push the dynamite plunger and blow this thing up is what I want to do. And if the side effect of that is that Dale and Terry gets to play some actual NBA minutes to find out if he's an actual NBA player, all the better for it. The drafting has not been good. I do think that it probably is the Achilles heel of this team. They kind of based what they did around the fact that they had a couple picks that they seemed high on, Patrick Williams being chief among them. But it was also White. It was also Terry.

It was also Dusumu, who had some moments when ball was in there and he was playing well. but there just really isn't much beyond the layer of what's called them the big three. And so I see where you guys are coming from. I guess I'm trying to find a version where we aren't just hitting the dynamite, but I agree, it is difficult. But they're the team to me that if they put these guys on the market for real, if they start interrogating those options honestly and earnestly, Alex Caruso is going to have bidders.

DeMarre Rosen at this stage, I think is going to have bidders. I think there are teams that are going to be interested in him shoring, up their half-court offense for the season. And even as you go down the list, you know, your Javon Carter's and your Tori Craig's, maybe there's some interest in those guys. And again, I just don't see any reason to be holding onto this too tightly. Yeah. Well, you were talking about stars, not really being on the market there.

And that brings us to our next team, also in the Midwest. That's the Cleveland Cavaliers. Well, I think most people would be surprised fall onto this list. Or maybe not if they've watched some of their recent performances. They're only 13, 11, or 9th in the East at this point. not getting a lot of action from the four main four players all on the core at the same time. They've only played 11 games. Only six and five in those games.

I think that's probably the most concerning statistics we could throw out here. Here's what I'm wondering with the cabs. I know there are only a year in 20-some-odd games into the Donovan Mitchell experience. But I think we've talked about in the past, and I think you guys would all agree, Mitchell's going to go at some point. If you look at the market and say there isn't a true blue superstar and that there are a lot of good teams on the market, who are probably looking to make a level up, would it make sense to just hit the eject button now

and say, we're going to trade Mitchell eventually, let's actually leverage these teams against each other to get something even better in order to optimize what seems to be the future, which is Garland and Mobley. Do you think there's any logic to being ahead of this as opposed to waiting to the summer or beyond to do what I think you would agree is going to happen eventually?

Yeah, I think most just, GMs for job security and to be safe, which is going to be like, no, no, we're going to write out the string. This is eventually going to work. But you got your ass kicked by the Knicks in the playoffs last year. Do you think this team would beat the Knicks in the playoff series right now? Are they any closer to being better than that team that lost to the Knicks? I don't think so.

And they've made moves. Maybe by Mitchell Robinson injury and that alone, they're a little closer. But that's really it. Maybe. But I don't think the moves that they've made in the offseason have, you know, elevated them in ways that even I kind of thought that they would. I thought the Niyang thing and the Max Struz thing, just, you know, sort of stretching out that offense a little bit more would help immensely.

It's helped in the way of making them a bottom six defense in the NBA. That's, I mean, offense, excuse me. That's unacceptable. No version of a decent team plays offense at that level. and there's no sign of that and proven. This isn't something messed up three-point luck or they could clean this other thing up or, you know, one of their very best offensive creators

hasn't been playing. These guys have been playing and nothing can happen. You know, Mowgli has been a defensive, all-defensive type of guy all year. That's been nice. We kind of expect that from him. Some people think he's even a defensive player of the year. Other than that, it's been a complete dub.

And to me, they're making a mistake by not getting off of Donovan Mitchell as soon as they can. I understand the thinking. I'm not fast forwarding to the assumption that Mitchell will absolutely 100% leave. I think there are still outcomes in which he stays. I still think there are outcomes in which... He'll leave. He'll leave if they don't overpay him. Sometimes that's what it takes in the NBA.

And here's the thing. To convince him to stay, I think not only we need to pay him a lot of money, but you need to show him a proof of concept that this is something that can work for him. And the version of the calves that they have right now is not working. So I don't know whether to classify them as buyers or sellers, Justin, because I think they're buyers in the sense that they need to be getting better, but they're probably sellers in the sense that in order to do that, I think they're going to need to be willing to part with one of these core guys in that process.

And to me, this is the Jared Allen conversation because there's nothing inherently wrong with Jared Allen. He's a good player having another good season. but something is wrong with this Cavs team. And if you're not at least considering that the reason for that is structural, I don't know what team you've been watching. So ideally I would love one more season of Allen before transitioning Mobley to the five on a more full-time basis,

but you may not have that time anymore. You may not have that season to play with. And that's where the Mitchell Clock could accelerate other kinds of moves. Also, who's trading for Jared Allen? especially if he isn't playing to the level of his contract, which is substantial for a pretty traditional defensive big man. I can't think of a single team off my head that is willingly saying, like, let me put that onto our books.

Yeah, I think the teams would have to be teams desperate for rim protection who are otherwise competitive and don't really have enough center, depth, or help right now for where they want to go. And that group is the Golden State Warriors potentially. It's the Dallas Maver. potentially, you know, if they looked at Derek lively and said, we love what you're doing, but maybe you're not up to, you know, playoff level just yet, which I think is a fair thing to say about a rookie player, even an impressive one.

You know, it's the reality of his situation. And Jared Allen has his limitations in the playoffs, but maybe he just gives you a little bit more than, you know, a younger player does or a more injured player or a less reliable player at this point. I just think the market is slim, and that might be why you need to kind of start that process now and play it out over a longer term in the hopes that something springs up. But Mobley is not a perfectly suited five right now. And some of the lineup data is a little glitchy this season.

But overall, playing him at the five this year has worked pretty well for Cleveland. That's actually been some of their best offense so far, is playing Mobley at the five, even when all of their other stars aren't in the lineup together. And so him and four perimeter-oriented players, I think, is a decent recipe for at least shaking something loose for Cleveland. Yeah, I think they'll still need to have at least some level of, at least average play at the big man position, right? I don't think you can just put some flotsam around this guy and just be like, oh, we're set at the five, despite what, you know, the data might say early on in the season. But, you know, I think the smart thing for them to do would be to sell.

But if they went and brought some pieces, and we've seen trade swing people's season. Just look at the Lakers last year. One trade changed their whole thing around. So it's not impossible that a trade could turn a listless situation into something that gets supercharged and the best version of the team that already exists. But yeah, you know, I just haven't seen the indication that that's around the corner from what they've put on the floor this year. Not at all.

Yeah. And I don't know if it's specific, like only solely the front court that needs solving here. And like, I think Garland and Mitchell individually can both look electric. But on any given night when they're playing alongside each other, there still is that sort of your turn, my turn, dueling banjo's sort of vibe there. It doesn't feel like it's really clicked in a way that I think a lot of the optimist for that trade. And there were a lot of them. I remember, Rob, you were one of them. Like, I don't know. There just doesn't seem to be any sort of muscle mess. memory there to where like these guys can coexist and thrive together as opposed to someone just seating the floor. Yeah, they're one of those groups who even though they've technically been together for all this time now going back to last season, have they actually built meaningful chemistry as a core? Like can you say that Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland and Mobley and Allen have learned how to make each other better? I don't know that you can necessarily say that. And that's why the conversations with Mitchell are happening and will continue to happen as far as will he leave in free agency. Is this team going to be good enough? Is a different

market going to be attractive to him? I get all of it. For me, the question with Allen is more inevitable, right? There's a point at which this team is going to move on from Jared Allen and Evan Mobley is going to play the five. If that is not now, when is it? Yeah. And some of it is playing to the strength of your personnel. If you remember Donovan Mitchell's teammates in Utah, it was Rudy, who was, you know, the classic pick and roll, roll hard to the rim big, and all shooting. It's like pretty freaking simplified. He didn't have to be mega creative in those successful Utah offenses, right?

And obviously, Quinn Snyder, as far as an exes and those play called, like, this guy was a master. In this situation, he was called upon to be a little bit more creative. You know, I'm somebody who thought Garland could mask Mitchell's lack of creativity as far as playmaking with his own playmaking. It just hasn't worked that way so far. And so maybe you make the roster more Donovan, Mitchell, and Darius Garland-centric by simplifying things with more spacing, you know, and just being like, hey, man, go out there and just be great. So here's the list of teams I wrote down that would at least have to think very long and very hard if Mitchell came onto the market. Golden State, Indiana, the Lakers, Miami, both New York teams, Orlando, Philly, Toronto, also Chicago and Houston, but to a lesser degree.

Am I wrong about any of those teams? Because that's a third of the league. And so that's what I'm wondering here. If we're saying there's a clock here and there needs to be a reimagining and ultimately it will come down to whether or not, Donovan Mitchell wants to stay for whatever they decide is the future. I do wonder if the timing might be now, not later. That's all. Yeah. I think that's a valid concern, especially because you can put off the process of shaking this up for so long, whether that's Mitchell or Alan or however you want to reimagine it. But if you're waiting for the whole bottom on this team to

fall out, you've waited way, way too long. And Cleveland has to be more proactive based on when the contracts are coming up, based on the pressures that they have. This is a team that can and needs to get better. And so there's a lot of ways to do it, but they got to have those conversations. Cash in on balling out this NBA season with Fandul, America's number one sportsbook. Right now, new customers get $150 in bonus bets with any winning $5 money line bet. That's $150 if your team wins. So on tonight's action on Wednesday, I'm looking at this player performance double, and I like Joelle and B to score 35 plus points. and Philly to win against the bereft, the awful Detroit Pistons who are racking up losses

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Speaking of a team that can and needs to get better, let's talk about one of the worst teams in the NBA, which is the Memphis Grizzlies, who are a robust six and 16 as we're recording this. They are one in ten at home, and they are six games back, six games back of the playing spot at this point. And now, my fair listener, you will be asking yourself, surely, why are the hell are we talking about the Memphis Grizzlies? Well, that's because one John Morant is on the verge of coming back. I believe next week, I think six days is, I believe, the day. So on the 19th is when he's eligible to come back.

We have seen him only because he made a court appearance recently in which. which for some reason he was asked to throw a chess pass in court to what I presume was his lawyer. But I just think the visual of seeing job back and realizing that obviously this season is going to be difficult. But the Grizzlies are already in a position where they're probably thinking about this as a one to two year window to do something anyway, right? Like I think you have to look at this more broadly and say whatever happens this year is just a pre-league. to what's going to happen next year. I wonder, Rob, as you look at me curiously, whether or not

the Grizzlies should be in the mix for buying in order to sort themselves out to hit the ground running, whether that's later in this season or even next season. I'm going to be honest. I was just thinking about him throwing that chess passing court. I'm really thinking about NBA court as a broader concept. Like, can we get

Draymond in there trying to do a recreation of why he just whipped Yusuf Nirkich in the face? Can we get like full on defenses for some of the transgressions we see in the league, much less everything that's going on with Jaws civil case right now. I think the thing with Memphis,

look, it's hard to gauge the needs of a team that's missing five or six rotation guys every game. Clearly, they're very bad. We all know they're very bad. They're one of the worst offenses in the league in particular. But I think we have seen in the playoffs that John Morant doesn't really provide the offensive stability alone that they need.

And so whether you want to think about this as improving this season, whether you want to think about it as improving over a longer term, this is a team that needs another creator or score. It needs a more dynamic offensive presence to plug in around the rest of this team because the nights where Jaws running into the wall and Jaron Jackson's scoring gets a little flighty, all of a sudden your entire fate rests on Desmond Bain beating his guy off the dribble. And he's been able to do that pretty well this season, but not well enough to prop up an actual team. So I'm fully on board with Memphis needing a more versatile, capable

offensive player around those guys. Does it need to happen now? Not exactly, but why not? Like, what else are you waiting for? Yeah, I'd like to see them goose the shooting, which is, you know, now and forever, you know, same as it's ever been. And I think they need to shore up that big man rotation,

honestly. Obviously, they miss Stephen Adams and Brandon and all those guys. They made that team who they were as far. as their identity on defense. They invented that identity for those guys with the hard-nosed play and the offensive rebounding.

But, yeah, shooting is ever, and they need to... Because Jared Jackson just can't be your big-man focal point. He's as talented as he is, like, the mental lapses and mistakes. He just doesn't have the focus to be your backline of defense every single night. the person who's saving your bacon every night back there needs help. And so that's what I'd like to see them do. I think obviously Jock coming back turns this into something completely different than it's been,

which what it's been is it has been Spurs level, which I looked up the other day. And I was like, wait, they've doubled up the Spurs and wins. At this point, this is kind of crazy. You thought about that after you listened to our podcast in hour two. Well, you know, people before the season, when I said the Spurs were going to be one of the worst teams in the NBA, they said, no, they're going to be fighting for the playing because they have Victor with Minyama and Devin Vassell. By people, you mean Justin Verrier. Yeah. Don't absolve yourself from that conversation, my friend.

I'm not talking Varyer. It's people online. People was getting spicy online. It's just like the team they got the number one pick out of the rookie and now they were supposed to be, you know, incredible. Like, that just, that doesn't. make any sense, right? And so I think they're going to be much better when his jaw comes back. Maybe it is a sort of, they take it to February because the trade market is playing out so slowly that they just wait and see, you know, and be like, you know what? We'll actually

be a deadline team instead of somebody who's more proactive. But yeah, they need to, they definitely need to be buyers. Here's my thinking here. Whatever is going to come for them, whatever difficulties that they face, whatever like windows or voids that they need to fill, those are going to be their next season anyway. Why not get ahead of that? So like, so for instance, O.G. and Ninobe is the guy that everyone talks about as a potential grizzly. I believe they were in the derby before him last year. If there actually was one, it depends on whether or not Messiah Jir was being honest about actually trading him,

which is a whole other conversation. why not just overpay for him now get him into the mix sign him to a long-term extension and then go that route? I just feel like we're going to get here eventually. There might be some logic to being buyers, getting a test run and going from there. Yeah, I don't mind OG there. I don't mind them as a Pascal Seaccom destination if they want to go that route. On a very short-term basis, I kind of like the fit of Demard de Rosen there, to be honest, for what he could do for their half court offense.

If they're not competing for the playoffs or the play, and he doesn't really help them as much. And maybe he's a guy you look at in free agency and see if there's like another avenue to get him down the line versus trading for him. But yeah, otherwise I'm thinking about who can juice that offense? Who are the players who could be available and of interest? And I love someone like Cam Johnson, for example.

I don't know that he has quite enough going on off the dribble for what they need. Like they do need someone who can put the ball on the floor and attack. and I keep coming back for whatever reason to Kyle Kuzma. I wonder if Kyle Kuzma could be a good fit there as kind of a combo three, four, not giving you what you want was in terms of the size, you know, the backbone next to Jaron's Action Jr., but offensive dynamism, defensive versatility, just the guy who can plug into a lot of different spots

depending on how defenses are reacting to the fully healthy version of the gris. You know what, guys who aren't Desmond Bain and John Moran on defense, that'll be a help. We'll take it. It'll be an upgrade. It's interesting. Yeah, I guess Jeremy Grant, Group Chat All-Star would have to be in the mix there as well.

Sure. Yeah. But you're right. It does seem to be a crossroads there of like whether or not you want to keep going down the path of a Stephen Adams type, if not him coming back healthy next season. Or do you want to be a little bit more versatile, flexible, allow Jaron Jackson more room to roam.

But I probably would lean toward the girth. but I don't know. I can see it both ways. So bring Jonas Valenciunis back is what you're saying? Yeah, just reboot that entire trade. Why not? Can I do one little footnote on the gris? I think it's just something worth flagging.

I think Vince Williams Jr. might be a player. And this is a marginal thing, but I think you might be a player for them. Certainly the more impressive of the Williams is for the Grizzlies of late. Why, did you hear that? Vince Williams. Mark it down. Just put it on your radar. You know?

Something to watch over the holidays. He's officially, he's on the radar. I can see the green circles and the little dot right now. He's in there. You put him on your cork board, yeah. All right, let's finish with our last team, the Atlanta Hawks, who are mired in the bottom of the play and mix in the Eastern Conference. They are nine and 13.

They just can't get it going without Jalen Johnson. Rob, I think that's the issue. Who among us can? He has the light. for us in these dark times. But yeah, losers of 9 of 12, Atlanta's going sideways real fast.

Yeah. The defensive rating is about as Atlanta as it's ever been. Offense, as always. But it's kind of falling back down to Earth over the last couple weeks where it was booing them for a while. Yeah.

And now all of a sudden, what are you doing? I think they need to get out of the Trey Young business. And I've been saying that. I just don't think Trey Young there is going to ever do anything differently. I don't think he's ever going to be convinced to try to play another type of way.

And it's not like, you know, I don't want to say he's been like this toxic person. And you can say like, well, Trey Young's not the fault of the defense. I'm like, man, I really do think a team that was constructed to play offense a different type of way. would be better at defense.

I don't think the two things don't have an effect on the other. I continue to believe that. Now, you know, if Trey Young was surrounded by all NBA type of players right now, yeah, of course. You know, if you said, yeah, we're just going to go, you know, sort of do the opposite of what Utah did on defense with Rudy, right? Where it's just like, look, we know he's a whatever type of offensive player, but he's generational on defense,

and we're just going to put all offense near this guy. guys because he's going to carry the defense. Maybe you say that about Trey. Like he's going to carry the offense and we get a bunch of defensive-minded guys in there. Maybe, maybe that approach would work. The Iverson model. Yeah, the Iverson model. Boom.

I am pretty alarmed at this point that so many of the combinations that have Trey and DeJante Murray on the floor together this season have been so bad. And I don't say that to say that that's like a doomed pairing that can't work. But it does mean that what the Hawks have now is not working. And so how you could look at this team and say everything is fine, and this is just the Jalen Johnson injury, would be mystifying to me. I would be trying to trade D'Andre Hunter two years ago. I'd be trying to trade Klincapella,

who I know has been in talks and in conversations for a long time. I think you probably have to think about trading Bogdan Bogdanovich, if the right situation comes available. I love Bogie, but you got to be able to play your best players together, and it's very hard for Atlanta to do that right now with the way that their roster is set up. I think a lot of contenders and a lot of would-be contenders would have a great time with Bogdan Bogdanovich on their team. I don't know. I'm not pulling, regardless of what I think, frankly, the Hawks are not trading Tray Young yet.

I don't think they can't. Where do you trade Tray Young? Well, they're so committed to this version of the team, too, in terms of what they've invested in it. I don't want to go all sunk costs on you guys, but they're sunk into this, and they're going to see it through one way or the other. So it's a matter of how can you make a Trey Young team better? And whether that's the Iverson model or however you want to look at it, they got to figure out something different because this is not it. This is somehow a sadder version of the Pelicans.

Like we talked about how bleak it could be with New Orleans, just considering they are kind of locked into their situation. I just don't know like how you optimize a team that's built around Trey 1. I don't know how you get rid of him because I can't think of a single team in the NBA who's saying we want to turn the keys over to Trey Young. there's just so much depth of talent in the NBA these days that there isn't even like a Iverson and Grizzlies, for example, that just wants to see a superstar come and play in your market. And so I think it's a foundational issue. I would actually love to see if they

got rid of Trey and turn this over to Murray and found some version of like a Quinn Snyder team where he's just making the most of marginal at this point talent. But I don't know how you get there. There's just like there's good players on bad contracts and bad players on bad contracts. And so I don't know. It's a mess. You know you got a problem as a quote-to-quote star when not even the Knicks would bite. It's true. Or the Nets. I don't agree with this. I, I, okay. Trey Young has his faults and yes, he can be a prickly type of player to build around just skill set wise. Trey Young is really talented. Really people score. He's very good. very good.

And when I think about teams like the Toronto Raptors, could the Toronto Raptors use Trey Young? With Scotty Barnes, abs to freaking lute, they could. But would Scotty Barnes want to strangle him after three weeks in? Absolutely. It's possible.

It's possible. But like you think about teams like them, teams like Utah, teams like the Spurs. If the Spurs had Trey Young, I think they would be in the playoff mix. And how you want to accelerate your timeline if you're a team that's slowly rebranded.

building, I understand that Trey might not be your particular flavor, but this is a really good playmaker who could jumpstart a lot of different teams. And all it takes is one general manager to talk themselves into that experience. What about the Wizards? Cool, Trey Young backcourt. Stop being, stop being cruel. You want to lean into an identity. The Virginia Wizards soon to be. Tray Young and D.C. I might fly to D.C. to watch that first game, bro. Boots on the ground for that one. Tell your kids about it.

Save the ticket. Be like Wimbuniamma in Summer League. It took us an hour to get there, but we got there. Just quickly, though, would you do that trade? Would you do Trey for Pascal Seacum? For Atlanta? Yeah. No.

Both sides, I guess. Toronto would be all over it. That's what I'm saying. Like if you're talking about other transactions for quasi star level players and you have an obvious need of point guard, like, Trayon can change your world as a team. I think your defense gets back into like the 16 range. Your offense falls off a cliff though. Yeah. For Atlanta?

Completely. Yeah. I don't know. It's a very, very difficult sort of thread to needle. I think we've gone to, like, Tray Young is really good. He is very good. has some weird stretches, has some stretches where he can't hit as many shots, can be inefficient. He needs to be more flexible, though, man.

We all agree, but he's wildly talented and much more talented than the vast majority of NBA point guards. So here's the thing. We're having the wrong conversation because Trey Young is what I like to call a house flipper. He will take your bereft in need of a refurbishment house and he will put it back on the market. He can stabilize. Yeah, he will stabilize. your franchise and bring you to pretty good. But anything beyond that is going to be difficult. I just don't see how he is a functional member of a title contender. There's just like a limit, a ceiling, if you will, if you want me to continue this ridiculous metaphor to like what a player

can do. Yes. And so like he is a very good player, but I just don't think he could be great. a chimney which he will go up as opposed to down I don't know man we live in a world where like DeAngelo Russell is a conference finals point guard

I feel like there's lots of flawed point guards to go on deep playoff runs if Tray Young was in the mold of third second option or whatever the hell you want to call DeAngelo on

with LeBron James Oh, yeah, I'm all late because I know LeBron is going to be like, you're not allowed to take 35 footers anymore with 18 seconds left 1 o'clock. Like, that's never happening again on this team. Yeah. You know, you're going to have to learn to move without the ball.

You're going to have to learn the space. You're going to have to learn to do all these things that don't involve you pounding the rock all day, every day. Oh, yes, sign me up for that. But Anne and Tray Young, the Keys, and being like, you're the man of my franchise. You're the leader. You're the guy people look to as an example of what this franchise is.

And meanwhile, everybody's your freaking caddy on offense. Like, I just don't want to sign up for that. You know, Scotty Barnes didn't like a Fred Van Vlitt taking 18 shots and all these other cats. You think he's going to be cool with Trey Young? Hmm. Selfish. That's what Messiah would say. He's too selfish.

We don't need that selfishness from a guy. like Pascal Seaccom or a Trey Young. This is bullshit. This whole conversation is ridiculous. Trey Young is very good. And that's where we'll wrap it. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely on production. Thank you to Ben Cruz somewhere out in the ether.

Not in the Zoom right now. I don't know where he is, but we got to find out. Yeah. We'll be back on Sunday. We'll see you. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Fandul is offering online sports wagering in Kansas, an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC.

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