The Ringer NBA Show - Which Upcoming Free Agent Combinations Fit Best? | Group Chat

Episode Date: June 5, 2019

We briefly survey the NBA Finals as it stands, tied 1-1 (2:00), before diving into swirling rumors about Kyrie Irving to the Nets or Lakers, Anthony Davis to anyone who will open their wallet, D’Angelo Russell to a mid-level franchise, and more (34:00). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Justin Verrier Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Ringer NBA show is brought to you by State Farm during the finals. A clutch teammate makes all the difference with the State Farm agent on your team. You can have someone who comes in clutch when you need it most. Not only are you, you're like the guy, the clutch guy who comes in when I need it most. I was going to say that about you. But if we were talking about the finals, I think Andre Aguadalu is the shining example of this. Yeah. Came up big for injured warriors in game two.

Mm-hmm. You just don't leave a 33% three-point shooter open. and just expect him to miss that shot. Yeah, but what's his three-pointer percentage when it counts most? Probably a thousand. Yeah, we can't really, there's no metric for that. Draft a State Farm agent.

Literally no metric. Maybe one or two, but you know, those are nothing. Okay. You know I'm post-Macked. Draft a State Farm agent to your team and save when you combine your home and auto insurance, State Farm. Here to help life go right.

Basketball is very good. Kevon Looney is a Max player. The Lakers should hire Ernie Grunfold. Kauai should sign with the Warriors. Basketball is very good. Hello, and welcome to the Ringer MBA show. This is a modified group chat. Two makes a group.

It's Justin Verrier. Does it? Yeah. I'm Chris Ryan. Is that a pairing? We are here with our usual midweek show where we lean into free agency. We are about 30 days out, about 25 days out, somewhere in between there. Sure.

But for the moratorium. Ends, but there is no moratorium when it comes to podcasting about free agency. So Justin and I are going to break down some of the biggest names and biggest storylines of the free agency market in a little bit. But first, we'll talk a little NBA finals. I don't mean to betray any underwhelmedness with my tone. I'm just playing the host, man. Yeah. A lot of health issues for the Warriors, which is the major storyline coming out of game two before game three on Wednesday night.

Kavanaugh-Luny will miss the rest of the series. Clay Thompson is hobbled A little hamstring tightness Did you think Danny Green undercut him? Did we ever get to the bottom of that? Was he, was Clay salty about that? I don't know. He seemed pretty upbeat afterward

because he was given those like very vigorous high fives to all of his teammates. Yes. It seemed pretty innocuous. I don't know if there was much intent to what Green was doing. I didn't even see much contact at all

but I wasn't sure whether or not there that was like a running thing. I always like it when a series gets a you know, a little bit of like they're playing dirty, so we're going to play dirty element to it. It's usually people saying that about the Warriors. So perhaps this is

appropriate comeuppance. Clay hobbled, but he said he was in more pain last year with his high ankle spring during the finals. I like all the stories that are coming out now where it's like, Clay's a warrior, man. He just plays through anything. I'm like, really?

Was this like canon? Did we know about this ahead of time? Is this days of future past? KD may be back for games. game five, unlikely to be back for four, but the Warriors are doing a really nice job, uh, you know, keeping this one moving. Like, I think that Nick Nurse can't really go to bed at night knowing Kevin Durant's not playing game four, which is probably where they want Nick Nurse to be. Yeah, he has to worry about Quinn Cook instead. I know. Well, he does have to

worry about Quinn Cook. Uh, more broadly speaking with the finals so far, uh, specifically with that game two, you and I kind of chatted a little bit about it. I was, it was interesting because I came in and I thought we were all going to be on the Raptors blew it page. But you were more like the Raptors got this page, right? Yeah, I'm very much on if you look back at what happened in game two. Like, had the Raptors just made like one or two more three-pointers? Yeah. Probably could have gone their right.

11 for 38. Like the outlier situation there is even though the Warriors do these third quarter runs pretty routinely or they have in the past, I don't see given all the injuries and everything that's come up as a result of the past few games, them recreating that sort of situation again. It just seems like the Raptors are too good. The guys that they need

in order to just blow teams off the floor aren't going to be as available. They don't have Kevin Durant. They might not have Clay Thompson. So they're just more immortal. And a mortal team as the, like, against an opponent with comparable talent, like I'm going to stray Kauai in that situation.

Okay. Well, I have a couple of counter arguments there. One is that I don't think, the Kauai is healthy. And I guess that's been unknown since maybe even the Sixers series. Yeah, he's been hobbling for a while. But I thought he was pretty flat in game two. Like his shot

looked flat. He wasn't getting a lot of lift. He tends to I think he's saving a little bit for the fourth quarters because he does seem a lot more active in the fourth quarters. But I do think that I noticed that he wasn't really getting a much lift off in the lane and that his

three point shot was coming in. It was front rimming a lot. which as a graduate of Chip England's shooting clinics myself, I can say is usually a sign of not getting a lot of a lift on your jump shot. Right, your jump shot has a ton of lift. Mine? Yeah, I've seen it. It's great.

My jump shot is actually aesthetically pleasing until it leaves my hand. And then the ball does not rotate and I miss my jumpers. I haven't shot a basketball in a while. There was something interesting about that third quarter run because the Warriors basically put Toronto in a lot. corner that they felt like the only way they could fight out of that corner was by shooting threes. And as I was watching the game, I was really frustrated because I felt like that wasn't who Toronto is. And I think they took about the 11th most on average threes per game

during the regular season, somewhere middle of the pack like that. More threes than years past, maybe, but I would not call them a three-point shooting team necessarily, would you? No. No. They're competent. They're competent, but it was interesting to see them just basically have blind belief in their ability to shoot their way out of that problem rather than take it to the warriors who were a little bit thinner than usual, playing guys like Bogot, playing guys like Boogie, who even though we had a good game is still not in, I would say, game shape, playing a guy like Dremont, who I felt like was there to be pushed into tilt if you

wanted to. And they passed up a lot of driving opportunities to chuck it out to Danny Green, to chuck it out to Fred Van Vleet, who just weren't shooting that well that night. Sometimes I think Moribald blinds people a little bit here. Or they need to remember the other half of Mori Ball, which is threes and layups and free throws. Right, right. I think there's a lot at play here, one of which is, this is just a classic Chris Ryan anti-math take. You just want to see guys power to the rim like on Iverson. It's not anti-math. I just don't think that math means there should be no alternatives that you shouldn't be like,

oh, this is, shots really aren't falling tonight. I do agree with you that... I guess we'll just fire away. I do agree with you that teams probably, in order to close the gap, they over-rely on three-pointers in the same way that an NFL team

might go to prevent defense in order to prevent, like, the long ball. It's like you're automatically defaulting to the extreme. I just, I think... I'm not advocating for a Baca 11-footers here. I just, there was a couple of times where I saw guards, and they had like one guy in between them in the rim, and then they

would leap up in the air. And there's been so much like, I get to the rim, jump up in the air, and have to turn around to find a three-point shooter who's open for sure. Like, it's not a bad play. Yeah. But I think that when you're chasing down a team like the Warriors, maybe just chip away a little bit. Don't have to win it on one shot. The three-pointers are now such huge momentum swingers, too, to the extent that anyone who believes in momentum anymore, that I thought it was an interesting factor in and the non-comeback that happened in game two. I guess I didn't have a problem with it because the people who were taking those shots

weren't necessarily bad three-point shooters. It seems like some of them have struggled at times, but Danny Green taking an open three-pointer is still a good shot. And Marcusol, even though he isn't a particularly effective three-point shooter, like you can clearly make that when he has enough room and a time

to set up his shot. So I guess it's a process versus results sort of situation. So you blindly believe in three-point shooting you think the Raptors are in control of this series. Yeah, that's what it's coming down to. No, I mean, I think it's interesting that we're talking about the Warriors with all these injury concerns,

but, like, you know, there's still O.G. Anobie just sitting there, just waiting. Whatever the Haley O'Shaughnessy drinking game is for this podcast, you mentioning OG definitely gets people wasted. I spend too much time with Danny and Charks. No, I just feel like there are fewer holes in the Raptors' seven, potentially eight-man rotation

than what's happening with the Warriors. It seems like a sort of situation where, because we're so conditioned to the warriors defying the odds and ultimately just blowing teams off the court, we've seen this so many times that we default to that, that we think that ultimately they're going to just figure this all out, everything will be fine regardless of all the particulars that have happened over the course of the first two games. I think we may be seeing things changing, but we're just not ready to admit it. We're not ready to... No, I know what you mean. The Raptors are a good team and perhaps even the better team, but we won't admit it because we're so used to saying that the Warriors will overcome everything. Yeah, I think most people probably were like,

it's really hard to understand whether or not Durant is coming back, and if he comes back, whether he's going to be dragging his leg around with him. And if he's relatively close to what he is capable of being, then you feel like the Raptors have to do all the work to win this series before he gets back. Yeah. Right? I don't know. Scylinda, that's true.

He could come back and the Warriors could be like, crap, what do we do now? We've been playing free-flowing, backdoor cutting basketball, and now Durant wants to hold it on the left block. Maybe that could be the case. It could jam them up a little bit. But I do think that if the Raptors lose the series, they're going to look back at game two with a hobbled clay with no Durant,

and they're going to be like, why didn't we win that one? Yeah, I do feel like that game, like, if things go south, that's the one that will probably look back and they'll kick themselves on. Because being up too-oh, there's probably just like, a psychological advantage. And that was the game for Philly in the Toronto series. You know what I mean?

That there's just, there are regret games that you'll look back on every series and just like, crap, we gave it away right there. Even in, in addition to some of just like the roster holes that have been created

on the Warriors, I just look at why the Raptors won in the first game, if you want to be reductive about it, is just Pascal Seacum hit the shots that were available to him. And he did not hit a lot of those in game two.

So what's to suggest that he will or won't in the next game? And if anything, if Clay can't go, there will be more opportunities for some of those fringe guys against a Quinn Cook and Alfonso McKinney and thus, I would expect those guys to provide more than less. I guess that's where I am. So better shape going forward, you feel like the Raptors in terms of health and for the rest of the series? I mean, and especially if Durant, if he is targeting five and they could stack these two wins

in Golden State, then all of a sudden you're counting on Durant as opposed to his added value. Yeah. So I don't know. I think the Raptors could be in control of the series, as weird as that is the say. Okay, so that's the finals, Justin. Let's talk about what really matters. Yeah.

Well, actually, let me ask you this, because, and this is a running theme of stuff that we've talked about over the last couple of weeks, but how are the finals feeling for you in terms of not only an entertainment product, but if something with, like, actual importance and heft? I've enjoyed them more because there's more games in between, and thus I could like...

More days in between the games. Yes, and thus I have time. to actually appreciate it, as opposed to during the first couple of rounds, where if you're watching this much basketball, you probably are just trying to get through it. Yeah. And this is a very, like, sports media guy, like, griping sort of take here. But, no, I have enjoyed these games, I think in part because the warriors are just more human.

Like, they are exposed, and thus there's just more potential for an upset there. And the Raptors have kind of leaned into that, this whole, like, them having this anxiety about like winning and not winning, which has become a little bit tired at this point. But it's really coming down to, it's becoming this upstart versus the establishment. And that's just like, it makes it way more fun. Yeah, and it's interesting to watch the establishment

try to create these underdog narratives where there aren't any. And maybe there are some when you're playing McKinney and Cook and, you know, bringing Bogia off the street. You do have a little bit of an underdog attitude. But yeah, it's a dynasty versus, a franchise with a chip on its shoulder and a feeling of being like the sort of

the stepchild here and they're trying to get back into it. I guess I'm asking because we're about to spend the next 35, 40 minutes talking about free agency. This has sort of been the push and pull of the postseason versus the offseason for the last couple of months. We've known that this incredibly consequential offseason

is on the way. We already are getting daily if not hourly pieces of breaking, what is defined as breaking news even though it's not exactly. what I would call freaking news. But little chess pieces moving here and there. And it can't help change how you view the finals

and also sometimes I think watered down a little bit of how you feel about the finals. Because you're like, oh, well, I mean, but all this stuff could change. And I'm not even talking about Kauai and Kevin as much as everything around them. Well, that's interesting because I don't think it has pierced the top level guys

in the finals as much as we expected. Because we talked about this going into the finals and we expected all of our kind of perception and just our enjoyment about the finals to be completely warped by well, Durant might leave for the Knicks maybe what does this mean for that? Kauai probably going to go to the Clippers

and now Durant hasn't been on the floor but it seems like Kauai it's almost like he's bought himself a ticket to do anything that he's brought the Raptors farther than they've ever imagined and it almost doesn't matter because this for them will be all it will be worth it because of what's happening right now

and then it's almost like all of the free agent stuff has been ancillary. So it's almost like two separate experiences. Yeah, I think that splitting the first two games and splitting them in the fashion in which they were split is the best possible scenario for the two teams involved

in terms of their free agency. Yeah. Because if it was 2-0 Warriors without Durant, we're talking about whether or not they need him. If it was 02 Raptors, like they're down to games, it's kind of like, Kauai's probably going to leave. Like this was a nice little Cinderella run, but this isn't what he's signed up for.

And the way of it's, it's split, you know, it kind of has, and Duran has sort of faded a little bit from the conversation because even though we bring him up a lot as a possibility, I think he's been relatively respectful in terms of controlling the conversation around him, whereas say, I don't necessarily think that Kyrie Irving has done such a great job if it's possible, or Kyrie Irving's camp has done such a great job in terms of like controlling the speculation going on around him. Now, obviously, Boston's on him, so it doesn't really matter. Kyrie is a free agent.

He's allowed to do whatever he wants. But with all the stories coming out around all these other players, it's interesting to watch the players in the finals be a little bit insulated from it. Yeah, I mean, what have we been saying about Kauai? Like the dribbles of information that have come out about Kauai suggest that

perhaps maybe we were wrong in that he is more interested in sticking around in Toronto than previously expected. Yeah, so there was like a true hoop item about him building a housing Toronto. I think that was another one. This one from David Thorpe who goes a ways back with the Sa Yuri, which so it would like add to the

credibility of whatever information that he's hearing suggesting that there's a good chance that Kauai would stay. And then I think there was another report. It escapes me who that was from that Kauai actually bought property in Toronto. Is that correct? Right. And you know, like I, Rissolo, I think was talking either Bill or SVP

on his new pod with SVP, but Rissolo was kind of like guys buy houses. Like they're good and, Right. I mean, LeBron bought two. Yeah. And clearly he wasn't intending to... Like, JJ Redick has lived in Brooklyn for most of the time that he's been a sixer. It hasn't changed where he plays his basketball. Real estate is just a prudent investment. It turns out. And Los Angeles, buying a lot of real estate in Los Angeles especially doesn't say anything because a lot of people spend the offseason here. Kauai is from the area that he did buy a house outside of San Diego. So it makes sense that he would have a place there.

as far as whether or not I really can't tell with him you know what I mean I think that reading into him is really difficult the guy that we want to talk about right now Anthony Davis is not that hard to read into because there's stories about him almost constantly he wears shirts that that

literally say what he's thinking here's what I'll say to that though it sounds like he's sticking to it I thought you're going to say cool shirt no I was going to be like it sounds like he's sticking to it So today on the athletic, Shams had a piece. It was essentially like a news and notes piece,

but had a big section at the top about Davis, that Rich Paul and David Griffin, the new president of the Pelicans, and Anthony Davis's agent who runs clutch, who also represents LeBron. They met. They had a very respectful and productive conversation or whatever. I believe Davis was there as well.

And Davis was there as well. But at least in terms of how Shams is phrasing it, it hasn't changed Anthony Davis's mind. about wishing to be traded. And that now, whereas, I guess, a couple of weeks ago, maybe the offices were closed or maybe Griffin was like hitting decline on calls, the Pelicans are taking calls on Davis. And Schaam says that the feeling across the NBA rival executives

believe the following teams will be able to compile the best packages, the Lakers, the Knicks, the Celtics, and the Nets. I have a few thoughts. Yeah. First, if you were going to have a breakfast meeting about like the first, fate of your career, where would you pick in Los Angeles? And like, what is the selection you would pick? Like, do you want something heavy in order to like wear down your opposition so they won't be thinking as well as you should? It really depends on, A, do you want to be seen? And B,

how long do you want the breakfast to last? Like, how much do you have to say? Do you want to hear two-hour presentation about the 10-year plan for the New Orleans Pelicans? So we're probably looking at coffee. Maybe you go like somewhere a little bit, either a hotel where it's like, feel free linger, or you go to Republic, get the bread, really get into it. I fucking love that place. I know.

But the problem there is, for breakfast and brunch, I don't think they take reservations. So you've got to stand in that line. I think that clutch, clutch can probably make a call. You think they have that sway? I think so.

I think it's like we'd like a back room for these guys to hang out of it. If I just want to make it in and out, I'm thinking maybe a little bit more of like a green bullet squirrel. Okay. You know? Yeah.

I've never been. What would you do? actually you never been. Squirrel is like this hipster breakfast place. Oh, I know of it. Quite good. Yeah, yeah. I'm trying to imagine what it would be like if I walked in one day

and David Griffin, Anthony Davis, and Rich Paul. We're having, uh, you know, a mushroom scramble. Yeah, like a quinoa salad. And a giant toast with almond butter and preserves. Yeah. Uh, that would be wild. Anyway, um, you're,

you're a longtime Pelicans watcher and you have been following this Davis story probably for as closely as anybody. So what's your read on this story? I think the two takeaways I get from this are this is going to be a long summer because we're getting incremental updates about whether or not David Griffin is actually speaking to other teams.

Like the phrasing of it was very specific as it often is with these kind of news stories because it has to be. And it was specifically that he's listening but he's not actively pursuing. And I'm like, well, isn't he going to be talking with other executives regardless

in order to just do his daily business about like the draft and all these other things. Sure. So I think we're in for a long one here where this could be one of like a hundred updates before we even get to the point where they're talking about specific trades. As we discussed before, the offer is not going to get decidedly worse in February.

Yeah. It's still Anthony Davis. And a team who feels like they can land Anthony Davis in February probably feels like they can make a pretty deep playoff from with him and probably feels like they can resign him. So it's worth it. You know, I mean, I think that lake, core, like that young

Lakers core offer, is probably on the table until Davis is playing for someone else. Right. Do you? Probably? Just because their options are so limited. It's really, they can keep their core together and sign another guy, but then who is that other guy?

And Davis is the one, the only one of some of these top tier elite guys who's expressed interest in joining the Lakers outside of perhaps Kyrie Irving. So we'll see about that. From the Pelicans perspective, I think it accelerates the process a little bit and it kind of dispels this idea

that they're going to wait until the trade deadline. I think it was a nice thought and I think if you could have done that and like kind of, if Davis was willing to give you a window where it's like, all right, show me what you could do for this first half of a season. And if it doesn't work, we could trade me at the deadline. Sure.

And you could see a situation where like maybe he opted into the Supermax so he got his money. But potentially they agreed to trade him if it didn't work out for a season. reason. It just didn't seem realistic as like opportunistic as it would have been for Griffin, especially getting in there and like kind of really making his name with that sort of move. But it seems like we're at the point where they're probably not going to do that. If he's not willing to play ball with them, it just makes so much more sense to trade him now

than risk the packages getting significantly less like interesting at the deadline. And of these teams that are that have offered up, All of these teams that are named as possible landing spots for him, the Celtics, the Nets, the Nicks, the Lakers. Who do you think puts together the best package? Do you think it's still the Lakers? That's a great question. It kind of depends on what some of these other teams are willing to kind of cough up here. So if we're just looking at, I think the good way to look at this is what's the Blue Ship thing for each one of them. The Lakers probably a combination of Brandon Ingram and that number four pick. Not Lanzo?

Is Lanzo considered the blue chip asset? I would, I would, even though gentry is on the record as being like a fan of his, but you, yeah, I mean, I'm still a Lonzo. I'm not an apologist on Lonzo. I see his value, but I just, I don't see him as anything more than kind of probably a ball moving point guard who will probably struggle with his shot throughout his entire career. And like, what does that suggest for a team with any aspirations outside of like a first round exit? So, I mean, Ingram health dependent is still the guy there. Sure. And it really depends on what the doctor say about his future. And, like, like what he can kind of be in the Alvin Jesuit system. And you start to think about like how everyone plays off of Zion. So is Ingram, let's say your small ball lineup is Ingram and Zion in the front court? Well, can you do that? And if it's Coosma in the package too, is it is Kuzma, Ingram, Zion? Is that a good small ball front line?

Yeah. Potentially. But defensively, I think you're going to get roughed up a little bit because neither Kuzma nor Ingram protects Zion at the rim. So you're counting on Zion. And it's just like if he's playing it. So there's all these factors, which is all to say you really want to, focus on how guys play off a Zion when this comes to it. All right, so the Lakers

blue chip thing, blue chip asset you see is Ingram obviously and the four pick. Right, and then so the Nix, it's theoretically this number three pick, I guess. And DSJ? I mean, I think that's the issue there. The longer that you sit

and kind of survey the landscape, it does seem like the Lakers all of a sudden are more intriguing than the NICs because they have all these other guys who are, if not good, probably better prospects than the likes of Kevin Knox coming off of a pretty

rough rookie season, D'SJ. I don't know what he is at the next level, and I don't know if he's a particularly good fit with Drew Holiday, who seems like he wants to stay in the world. I mean, would the pelicans ask for both? Would they ask for... I think they would probably ask for the pick, DSJ, and Knox? I think they would ask for everything. I think they would probably ask for... They start there at least. Yeah, I think they would ask for

probably those Dallas first round picks, maybe even like Nick's first round picks, depending on which ones you think would be better going forward. Celtics, it's obviously Tatum. And then it's like, whoa, the dance that we've talked about for a while now, will they put Tatum on the table if it seems like Kyrie's going to leave and recent reports, which we'll get to later, suggest that like the Celtics aren't even in

the thinking. Seems like it's pretty much Lakers or Nets based on certain things. And then the Nets, this is the most intriguing team on the board. Shout out to the Nets for getting themselves involved in a lot of these stories. Right. Well, I mean, it makes a lot of sense because it's the New York market, without the baggage. It's New York without James Dolan.

It's without having to like compromise anything based on Kevin Durant's preference, if we're just assuming that he is going to the Knicks regardless. It's kind of a fresh start, too. I will make this argument, though. Sometimes that you're the baggage. Are you saying me specifically? No, but like I, so Blake Griffin obviously is a much different story in Detroit than he was in L.A. Yeah.

basketball is not as central right now in Detroit as basketball as in LA. Even the Clippers is like the sort of secondary team here. He was like a national story, sometimes for not great reasons, but he was in the news a lot more than he was, even though he had a really good year for the Pistons. But I feel like now, Kyrie or A.D., wherever they go, they're going to be the story. It doesn't matter.

They could go play on the moon and they would still be the story. I guess that would be pretty big diss story anyway because it would be playing in space. Probably. You know, do you see what I'm saying, though? It's like the idea that Kyrie can like have fun in Brooklyn but hide out from the New York Post is not, that's not going to happen.

At the very least, it's theirs. And it is intriguing and perhaps this is just my projection that like you have all of the benefits of the New York market but you can kind of make it whatever you want. Sure. I guess so. I guess so. I feel like the story there is going to be, this was a team that made the play.

that made the playoffs with this relatively homegrown young squad where they've recovered from star hunting with Pierce and Garnett years before and sacrificing all their flexibility for those players with Joe Johnson and everything. And that team came up short and then it took them years to rebuild this team. And now they're finally in a place with some interesting players.

And yes, they have probably ceilinged out at the seven or eight seed. Yeah. Maybe. But adding Kyrie to that is like, kind of going backwards rather than forwards. Well, I think, yes, I think this year was a nice story. And while I'm sure there's anxiety induced by the idea of like trading a single pick, let alone the one, the first one you get post Celtics like fallout,

whatever you want to call that, just a disastrous trade. On the other hand, I think this situation could become the Joe Johnson Hawks like pretty quickly. Oh, yeah. Where it's like, oh, so we made the six seat again. All right, cool. Yeah, yeah. I think the limit on that is like one more season, then people are going to want legitimate expectations.

I do think that it's interesting, is Kyrie that much more of an upgrade over DeAngelo Russell? I mean, I think you have to take a really long look at what Kyrie's going to do your team. If you look at how much talent was assembled in Boston this year, maybe there was a wrong chemistry situation. Maybe some guys took steps backwards when you were hoping they were going to take steps forwards. But by all accounts, just by reading what's in the press, it just seems like Kyrie was the common problem there.

So you're going to introduce him to a team that really believes in themselves right now, which is probably smart. Kyrie Irving is definitely better than DeAngelo Russell. But Kyrie Irving also has some pretty shaky lower body injuries and has now kind of flamed out at two franchises. Right. And he hasn't helped himself by his recent Instagramming, which... What's going on there?

includes more third-eye sort of thing. I thought he was like taking ayahuasca for a second. I mean, it is the off-season. Perhaps that's legal and wherever he lives. Yeah. Well, I think it's interesting to look at the Nets as a package deal. And some of the reports that have come out have suggested that it's, Kyrie would only go there if there is an assurance that they could also get AD.

And it doesn't really make sense to trade everything you have for AD if you don't have Kyrie already. Yes. But I do think... This is going to be that you're alluding to is the most fascinating thing to see how. happen over the next couple of weeks, months, is because how many of these guys want a second guy going with them? How much can they coordinate that? Do they have the landing spot that they want? Well, one of them have to take a little less than they expected they were going to get on the open market. And what happens with Davis and is Griffin in the mood to help somebody set up a possible

finalist by trading the guy who six months ago, we were like, that might be the best player in the NBA. Yeah, I mean, I don't put much stock in this because, like, I don't, as a fan don't care about conferences, but it seems to be a pretty legitimate thing that guys want to, like, front office executives want to trade their star player out of the conference. It happened with Paul George and the Lakers. It happened with Kauai. I don't think, I mean, I think that there was a little bit of a punitive thing going on there, but I think there was also like, we don't want to see Kauai six times a year. Yeah. So it's a little weird considering like if there's a significant difference in like the return, like, I don't know why you would care about like having to wade through a

couple ESPN stories leading into more games in a given season. It just, to me, the Nets are kind of setting themselves up as kind of the Miami option, where we've talked about all these Old Guard franchises and, like, their appeal to some of these guys when kind of the outside the box option is most appealing because it's a fresh start and it provides the two guys at the center of it perhaps what they want the most, which would be to play together on their own terms. Like I said, I just think there's an interesting notion there where it's like, not only history repeating itself, but like just this is the blank slate. And I have to imagine that's intoxicating to some of these guys.

That's interesting. All right. Let's take a quick break to hear from our sponsor. And we come back. We'll talk a little bit more about free agency. Today's episode of the Ringer NBA show is brought to you by State Farm players and fans prepare all year for the finals. They need to be ready for anything. With a State Farm agent on your team, you can be ready for anything too.

They can help you prepare for whatever life throws your way. You know, I gotta say, Steve Kerr seemed prepared for Nick Nurse to throw the box in one defense at him. Wow. That was a little bit janky, though. He looked straight into the eyes of a guy wearing a hat with his initials on it,

and it was like, not today, my friend. Not today. That was, you know, I love when the finals go on like this because you just get weird moments like Nick Nurse running a seventh grade defense out there. The chess match is legitimately interesting because the rapper's aggressive defense swung things in game one, they overextended, the Warriors took advantage of that,

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Josh Hart, come on group chat. Josh Hart has gone on a couple of podcasts over the last couple of days, weeks, and been pretty candid about some of the stuff that happened with the Lakers over the course of the season. He said that during the Anthony Davis trade talks, that the impression that he got

was that the only untouchable players were LeBron and KCP. Which I hadn't read that far. That was great. Yeah. That was on the Danny Green podcast. Sure. Which is called Inside the Green Room.

He has time to record a podcast? I was wondering. that. Maybe this is aggregated from something that got recorded a little while ago. I also don't know what Danny Green and Josh Hart's connection is. Like if you're like, I'm booking guys, then it's like James Corden wasn't available. So you got Danny.

Josh Hart. Did he happen to give his scouting report on Amari Spelman? Well, what I wanted to know was, oh yeah, that's right. That's from the Polink article. That's pretty funny, A, because it's like clutch, KCP and LeBronabot both clutch. And then Hart went on the eavesdrop podcast

and said, essentially, I hope we get a super team or some shit. I hope we get Jimmy, Kyrie. There's no tampering for the players. So I hope we get Jimmy and Kyrie. And I was like, huh, okay, LeBron, Jimmy and Kyrie. And, you know, we don't really,

we play so much musical chairs here that we don't really think about, like, would that work? Well, would AD Kyrie? Does that actually work? Functionally, like, that can't happen because he's suggesting they sign two players. Yes.

So he's already He's already stretching Reality here Sure It also he seems pretty sure That he's going to be around That none of these trade scenarios involve him

I like that I like that That's right I appreciate his confidence But it is funny how In all the massinations That we've heard Like he was the guy

That wasn't involved And for a while it made sense Because everything that we'd heard About Hart was that He was a gamer He was the type of player That you want to round Lebron

Sheep Deal Just seemed like He had a role and that role had been successful in LeBron teams in the past. Yeah. I don't know why he's still confident that he can't just get thrown in as like a contract

to make the match, like the money match. I would not, of all the people buying property, I would, Josh Hart should probably sell high right now. So I'm saying, or have a condo with an early lease break option. Right, right. I guess I was just more asking about this idea of these guys pairing together

and whether or not you feel like there's any perfect match either of free agents or guys who are likely to be on the trade market. So a Conley, maybe a Beal, if whoever they ever hire somebody to run Washington is like, this is the only option to start the rebuild here

because we can't get anyone to take wall. Or, you know, Darrell and Moria's tamped down some of the talk about trading a bunch of the Houston starters, but that could also be a bluff. And so you talk about Paul, you talk about, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of guys. even after the finals run here.

I could see Maaside trying to get off of Lowry. So there's a lot of guys out there who could still be in play. Are there any partnerships that you're particularly attracted to? Well, let's start with the Lakers. I think we could run down some of the guys that we know that are probably going to stick around. So LeBron, for instance, I think it makes a lot of sense that if he doesn't get Kyrie to get a Kyrie type, I think that that works so well. And it seemed like throughout this past season, he was often looking for that sort of player

to be able to just hand the reins off for a couple of possessions so he can like chill back and regain his energy and do whatever he does when he's just like floating out toward the midcourt line. So it's a little weird for Kyrie to want to just commit a lot of his leftover prime to trying to recreate whatever they had in Cleveland because it doesn't seem like LeBron has much of a runway here. Well, you know, I mean, LeBron would probably be turning over the keys to him, shaping him to take over his own team.

Is that the Kobe? sales pitch? No, but that's like, that was what the whole thing at the end of Cleveland was. It's just this idea of like, it's like Jeremy Renner taking over for Tom Cruise and Mission Impossible and it just never happened. He was like, I still do my own stunts, dog. Right. No, he's like the seventh Avenger. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That would happen. Well, it seems like, I guess that's how LeBron is selling people too. Apparently, yeah. Like, I've got two more years. Yeah. And then a third year of grandfatherly, Iguodala-esque, you know, role-playing, I guess.

Yeah. And so if it's not Kyrie, then it becomes pretty interesting. I guess Kemba is probably the closest approximation, but recent reports on the athletic. He actually, it wasn't even a report, he outright told an athletic reporter who went to Tokyo or just happened to be in Tokyo that his first preference is to stay in Charlotte.

Yeah, there's a lot of money to make it as first preference. whether or not Jordan will offer it all for all of that to him is the biggest question, right? Right. So Kemba makes some sense if they decide to pull the Supermax and he looks elsewhere. Other than that, they need a big guy. Clearly they were reliant on some of these Rimrunner types, which is fine because as we're seeing in the finals, like, Kavan Looney is good enough. In today's NBA, you really don't need your big to do a lot.

The Zubach deal is still like... It's not great. It's not going to cost them the ring or anything like that in two years, but that's the kind of deal that keeps people up at night. It keeps like hardcore fans up at night because that's the kind of like, that's the shamit deal with the Sixers. We're like, why was he in the Tobias trade? Yeah, especially because the players,

they got rid of Zubach in order to put more shooters around LeBron for the stretch run, which is the type of players they specifically shied away from in free agency when they had their pick-a- Yeah, and it also just sounds like they were lying to themselves, like, where they're like, this is, we think that we're somehow better than we actually. actually are, which is, self-delusion is one of my favorite pastimes, but I just think that they were probably, like, thought they were closer to being better than they were. Yeah. So Davis makes a lot of sense in that regard. Jimmy is fine if he's like, he's the only guy you can get and you just keep your existing core and you just roll the dice with it. Well, Jimmy's a Jekyllen

Hyde thing. Yeah. Because I think about this a lot as a Sixers fan, because I do not want them to lose Jimmy. I choose now to look at the trades for Butler and Harris as a collective trade rather than any specific guy going for any specific one of those guys. Like I choose to look at it as shamit and uh and Rocco and Sarich and all the other assets for those two guys rather than specifically we got Harris back for Shamit and the number one pick, the first round pick. And specifically it was Sarge and Covington for Butler. That being said, Philly is not a free agency destination still.

I don't think that they will be a huge player, even with Simmons and Embed and the talent that they have there. And if this butler that we saw in the playoffs is the Butler you get going forward and not the Minnesota Butler or the end of Chicago Butler, who's basically like, I want out, then I'm all in on that. I'm pretty into that.

You don't think that the Sixers can sell him on being in like a Meek Mill video in perpetuity? I don't think he uses shit about that stuff. He's teaching Mark Wahlberg's daughter how to play basketball. It's wild. He had a video that I watched as I was trolling for NBA rumors,

which I do often, as Chris does as well, where he's just making snick-redoodle cookies just in his house. And I'm like, who is recording this one? Yeah. And who is this for? I guess the answer to the second question is, Us.

Specifically. Anytime you're watching, like, when you're online and you're like, who watches this shit? It's you. Because if you didn't see it, nobody would be watching it. Yeah. I know that. I am honest about what I watch. Yeah.

You know, I got red-pilled by a golf instructor the other way. Because I go on weird internet runs where, like, I'm looking for, like, alternative views on how to swing a golf club. So I found a guy who's like Everything they tell you is bullshit This is how you do it I was like you're right How's I going for you? I mean it improved my swing

Really? Yeah definitely Whoa Yeah but I mean like I'm not Is this like the Chris Red Pilling is very dangerous Yes I don't want to advocate Alternative Education Everything your teachers tell you is true

But I'm just saying Not about golf swings The point is It's like the Christops Trainer of golfers We do watch these videos Yeah yeah yeah yeah No, I don't.

I only watch Chernobyl. Bobby, do you want to jump in here? It seems like you want to jump in. I was just waiting for Justin to look at me and say something like, jump in here. Instead, Chris did that. I really love the golf red pill. Just forget everything you thought you knew. Yeah.

What's your... The guy he calls himself the dark night of golf instruction. Jesus Christ. It just keeps getting better. It just keeps getting more Chris Ryan, too. Bobby, what's your YouTube, like, Dark Secret? I don't have a YouTube... pleasure. I don't go to YouTube for anything except

work, so all of my YouTube algorithm is just like, here's movie clips from 1984. Sick. Thanks, Sean Fennessee. Thanks, all guys. Anyway, why are we talking about this? Jimmy Butler makes these nicker-roodles, right? Yeah, well, Jimmy Butler specifically.

Okay. Whether or not he's a good pairing with LeBron and should even stay in the Philadelphia 76ers organization. Yeah, I think. Where's the best place to put Jimmy? I want him to stay on the Sixers. I want him to stay on the Sixers.

I want him to be the secondary ball handler. I want them to be, I want this Sixers team to evolve and get to play together a little bit longer and see what they do next season. And especially with, I think if the Warriors do break up, I think that the level of like the bar that we have for what it takes to make the finals might drop down a little bit or win the finals. I'm as a Sixers fan, if you were a Sixers fan, would you be watching the Raptors and me like, man, that is just like, that's light years ahead. No, yeah, the margin is slim. And clearly because it took a Kauai Leonard just like miracle shot in order to... But I just mean even watching them in the finals. And watching...

And, you know, the Warriors, I still think, play at a different level of basketball than almost every team. Every team. And they can be beaten on a night-to-night basis. But with Durant, I think they are completely unbeatable. Well, it's funny that we spent all of the season talking about how the East has really, like, become the new class and how all of the future contenders are going to be these teams that were watching the Bucks, Raptors, 6th. or Celtics, are you confident

that any of them will even be a top four seed next year considering all the things that can fluctuate this offseason? I mean, I'm as confident in it as... No, I mean, but you can't be confident because the landscape of the league, the reason why we're doing these podcasts now in early June is because the landscape of the league

is going to change. Like, these guys aren't all going back to their same teams. I don't think they want to. I don't think even the teams want them to. I think Boston is even like, let's build around Tatum and Brown. There's been reports suggesting that they're looking for deals that will strengthen a supporting lineup around those guys. You know, I think Boston it's going to be looked at as like, oh, Danny never pulled the trigger.

Danny never used what he had to get the guy. And, you know, Bill has expressed regret about Kauai, you know, and Bill has expressed regret on behalf of Sixers fans about the Sixers not getting Kauai. But, you know, these things are such fine margins of error. Like how these things work out one way or the other. that's why it's going to be so fascinating to see what happens. And it's honestly, it's really interesting to see a guy like Kemba who's essentially put out of all of these dudes. And he's the one who's going to have the godfather offer.

Jimmy can make a decision one way or the other, whether it's like you want the money or you want Los Angeles and you want to play with LeBron. And Kyrie can follow his third eye somewhere. But Kemba kind of can't leave. Charlotte? Yeah. If he gets the offer.

that's a significant amount of money more than what he would make anywhere else. That's like a fucking ton of money. I've heard about this in our rumormonger blog today. I've wrote way too much about it because this is a subject I'm quite passionate about. I think it makes sense. Because you're a husky? Go huskies. Yeah.

Well, I've slimmed down since my connect a few years. I think it makes sense for Kemba's bank account. Do you watch the dark night of weight loss videos? Exactly. the yeah dark Richard Simmons I think it makes sense for Kemba Walker's bank account and considering like where he is at his career he's 29 as we've seen with Chris Paul

like some of the smaller guards tend to just bottom out without like much like headway much much like early signs you could have two more years that look like the year that Kemba just had it and the third year could be he looks like Darren Collison he also his previous contract was for four years 48 million

he could make basically that each year in a Supermax. So when you put it out like that, it's like, damn, how do you turn that down? Because worst case, you could force a trade later. And let's be romantic about it a little bit. He's also saying, like, people go to look to win elsewhere. Like, that doesn't mean the same thing to me than winning where it all started and the team that's believed at me and all that other stuff. Now, as you pointed out in the rumormonger piece, like, that's Supermax.

They're not going to be able to build shit around him. Oh, yeah. he's creating his own grave, essentially, because all the other contracts that they have on the books for the next two season is going to prevent that team from being pretty competitive outside of maybe a playoff run. And then by the time they get off of that money, like, it'll be 31 at that point. And you also wonder, like, through what route are they getting these top level players to come and play with him? Because they're not a free entry destination.

They haven't drafted particularly well. I would say they have not drafted well. Yeah. They've not drafted well at all. Although Miles Bridges, I'm a fan. Because he said I played like shit last year? I love that part of it. But in general, I think his game translates.

He's the type of player that I think would work well in Nica Kemba. Okay. Dwayne Bacon, young bacon. Yeah, sure. He's the future, man. No, but I mean, the other thing, I guess there's not, if there is that much money on the table, is it that terrible of a thing to just wait it out

and hope that you get lottery luck? Like, look at the Grizzlies. Sure. Like, they could easily pivot away from John Moran. which is what we're seeing in reports now that they might look elsewhere. Then Johnley? Yeah.

And then just go for it because they have this draft opportunity. And now it could be Conley and Jaron Jackson Jr. and this draft pick for the next three years, Dilan Right, Jonas Valjunis. If they wanted to, they have the option. I don't think that team is that good. It's not. But that's an option if you want to stay competitive.

Or just taking Reddish or taking... Yeah, like taking... Or J. or whoever. Taking Barrett. Yeah. Taking RJ. That's a possibility. and all of a sudden, you have created a mini window to be more competitive than you expect.

Yeah, and Memphis is shown to be a type of team that is like we're really psyched to be in the playoffs. Yeah, you need to keep these smaller markets engaged, especially one like Memphis that doesn't have much of a history. We're going to see so many lessons coming out of this. We're going to see whether or not Kemba is able to turn down the designated veteran Supermax. We're going to be confronted with DeAngelo Russell wondering whether or not Kyrie Irving is coming to take his starting role after making the All-Star team. And then what's DeAngelo Russell's perception of himself? Is he okay?

Because right now, according to Shams, the market for DeAngelo is mostly hot, and he's like the mid-market god. It's Utah, who looks like they're ending their Ricky Rubio run tenure. It's Minnesota, which I think is super interesting. Yeah. And it's Indiana and Orlando.

I guess Markell Fultz has not blown the doors off in Orlando. But I love the Indiana idea. and I love the Minnesota idea for DiAngelo. Again, like Jimmy Butler, assuming that DeAngelo Russell has his head screwed on, right, and he's going to, like, replicate what he did last season, he's, there's a lot of interesting landing spots for him.

Is he okay playing in Minnesota or Indiana? I wouldn't go after him if I'm Indiana, and that fit to me is a little perplexing, because while he could probably figure out a thing with him in Ola Depot, they both seem like combo guards who need the ball in their hands. And while we don't know what Ola Dippo is going to be in the future, let alone next season. I just like going forward,

that seems a little weird to get two guys that are so duplicative as your core guys. I also understand like if you're Indiana, it's tough, as you mentioned, to get anybody. So anybody that shows any remote interest in taking your money,

you probably want to go after. Yeah. But to me, that's a bit of an odd one. I love the fit in Minnesota. I don't know where they're getting this cap space. Right. But towns and Russell are friends. I guess that would just involve

like getting off of a, lot of like the quasi-veterans that they have there, right? Yeah, I'm looking at their cap sheet right now, and I don't know where this money is coming from. Jeff Teague still makes $19 million next year. They have two years of Gorgie Dang at 16 and 17. Good God. I don't know how that happened. So it seems unlikely, but if they can clear the space, I think it makes a lot of sense. Let's say if you dump Teague's contract onto somebody by attaching a pick, maybe an Atlanta Hawks or one of these other teams like the Hawks that is going to rent out. We're open for business, basically, yeah.

I think you could probably pull something like that. And if you could... Jeff T. gets I'm coming home to Atlanta, right? Right. And maybe trade Andrew Wiggins for literally anything. Yeah. I just like the idea of leaning into towns as your first guy. Like, I've said this before. He's like the type of guy that should be an MVP discussions.

And I do think if he's there for the long haul, like the type of guys you want to get are guys that he already has a pre-existing relationship with and perhaps can be more of like a score-first guard that you can turn to in the clutch, whereas as we've seen in the playoffs, a guy like Janice might struggle a little bit to create their own shot. So you need one of those guys kind of in reserve when you need them.

So I think it would be an interesting fit. Yeah. I mean, there's going to be a lot of tension over the course of the summer in terms of like where these guys want to be, how much money they're willing to take and how happy they are when they get there. Because I think there's also like,

you alluded to it with Anthony Davis saying like, hey, sign Supermax and we could still like make an agreement that like our winning percentage just, I don't even, I don't think that's obviously something that you can officially dictate. But Jimmy Butler's tradable if you then sign him. The Sixers should do everything they can to sign Jimmy Butler because if he flips out at Brett Brown and says,

I don't want to play her anymore, they'll have takers for Jimmy Brown. I'm curious. Jimmy Butler, sorry. Yeah, I'm curious going into it, which teams will try to pivot in the other direction, the teams like the Celtics, as you're alluding to, that kind of distance themselves from the Star Chase.

Because there are so many teams going after so few guys. Yeah. There are so many teams with money. I think it's mostly because next year is not that good. Yeah. You could have guys who are disgruntled next year who want to be dealt, but the class itself is not that good next year. Seems like more guys want to move than as usual.

Also, a lot of those bad deals from a couple summers ago are finally coming off the book, so all the cap space is available. So it's a weird confluence of events. But I do wonder if certain teams will be like, well, the smart money is actually to pursue a restricted free agent. So while the nets are waiting for the response from Kyrie Irving, like do you go after DiAngelo day one and put a max offer in front of him

he signs the offer sheet and all of a sudden the clock is ticking. Yeah. But the Nets like when it comes down to it, they can't wait. They have to wait for Kyrie. So do they match and deal with it later? That's the intriguing kind of chess match

that I'm like. Yeah, that's going to happen at like 601 on Sunday on the 30th. It will probably be like, someone will be like here's the max of DeAndalo and now the nets are on the clock. We'll probably know like five days before. Yeah.

Yeah, you're right. Okay. Justin and I'll be back next week to talk more free agency. You're listening to this on Wednesday morning, hopefully. Tonight after game three, you can listen to Gons and Divine talking about the game from Golden State, those guys on the road. We'll also have a corner three later this week. So there's plenty of NBA podcasts going. Bill is talking to people all week.

We got you covered. We got you covered on the site as well. Please read Rumormonger, which is where Justin, myself, and Haleo, Shannessie are updating you on all the latest gossip surrounding the free agents. didn't even talk about Lionel Hollins today. Next time. We're doing a special one-hour edition. Special emergency Holins pod next week. Yeah. Yeah. A seven-day emergency. We'll talk about his weird fingers.

Does he have weird fingers? He's like he's broken him so many times that one of them's just like cock-eyed. That's like a hockey defenseman injury. We'll save this for the pod. This type of knowledge that you need Justin Berry or for? You're the dark night of Lionel Hollins' anecdotes. For Justin Barry and Bobby Wagner. I'm Chris Ryan. Thanks for listening. Basketball is very good. Basketball is very good.