The Ringer NBA Show - Who Is on Our All-NBA Playoff Team? | The Answer

Episode Date: July 2, 2021

Chris is joined by The Ringer’s Justin Verrier to recap the Bucks’ Game 5 victory over the Hawks (1:11). Then they each draft an All–NBA Playoff Team (14:04). Host: Chris Ryan Guest: Justin Verrier Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's The Answer. I'm Chris Ryan. And this week, I am joined by Justin Barrier, my old running mate. What's up, man? Hey, man, I'm excited to talk about the novelization of the group chat podcast. You'll love the chapter on the summer of Cannes. It's a real erotic thriller. Oh, man.

Justin, thank you so much for joining me today. Today, Justin and I are going to answer the question, who is on our all NBA playoff teams. So we have a big board. We're going to do a draft picking our all NBA teams from this season's postseason. But before that, I wanted to chat with him a little bit about these Eastern Conference finals,

which just keep marching on. Last night, the Portis Head game, the Drew Explosion, the Drew League. The Bucks did what they needed to do at home, beating the Hawks handily. I was wondering, Justin, do you think that there are any more role players left in the NBA who could have a big night on the NBA in a playoff stage.

I feel like I need to go through like my fantasy team from 2015 just to see like who is going to step up and lift this team to the finals. It's wild. It's funny because like going into last night's game, going into Thursday night's game, I was saying to people that the consensus was now that the Hawks were just going to cruise. They're going to win the next two and that's going to be the finals. Were you just like going up to people at Gelson's and saying that? Yeah, right. My dog and I were having a thorough conversation. It really loves the Hawks, by the way. And I was saying, so that meant that the bucks were actually going to cruise and they were going

to win. And that's what happened, because I have no idea what to really do with this series. And last night was a prime example of that, right? Yeah, I felt like on the Janus injury night, to me, I was like, but when you get done being shocked that, you know, your superstar player may have exploded his leg, but it wound of just being hyper-extended, no structural damage. Shout out to Dr. Wojj. it just becomes a situation where you're like,

yeah, but Drew Holiday and Chris Middleton are still better than the Hawks, right? I can hold that as like a truth in my life, if nothing else, that Drew Holiday, who I've been watching since he was a Sixer, and Chris Middleton, who we all know is very good and is like, has one of the most diverse offensive games in the league,

these guys should be able to beat, especially a Trey Youngless Hawks. So last night wasn't very shocking, I don't think, right? No, if anything, it felt like a smoother Bucks game than we've probably seen this postseason. There's something very unc cluttered about the Bucks last night. And I think you have to say that has to do with something with Janus not being there. Like, he's incredible.

But I say this about unicorns and specifically the unicorns who are like those four or five types who, for whatever reason, need a big man next to him who is just as unique. Like you need a little bit more from every other player. So like if your center is a point guard, you need Brooke Lopez, a center to also be like a shooting guard. And Drew Holiday and Chris Middleton can't do as much because they just like don't have their hands on the ball as much. And without him there last night, everything just seemed easy. Like they just ran pick and roll with Brooke Lopez, either of those guys. And then when Brooke was on the short roll, he found Bobby Portis, who for some reason, I guess, is just like Stefan Currie now.

and he just made open shots. And it was just really simple in a way that like, I guess it shouldn't be surprising because there aren't as many things to factor in in order for them to build a game plan. Janice is so efficient that it's hard to suggest

that he at any way throws the balance off on their offense. You know what I mean? Like it's just like he is, for whatever issues people might have with his deliberative ball handling style or some of the shot selection from earlier in the playoffs.

I think he cleaned a lot of that up as they got deeper into their run. He's so efficient that it's not like, you're like, oh, man, we just wasted like 15 possessions watching Janus missed shots. But that being said, you're right. The flow of the offense

is much closer probably to Bud's Hawks teams than they are to, you know, like, I feel like they have like a little bit of that equilibrium that maybe they don't. Now, can they beat the sons without Janus?

I don't necessarily think. I don't think so, right? Like, I don't think Drew and Chris can beat, like, a son's team who probably feels like they're the team of destiny at this point. Probably not, especially because the sons just, like, have been able to match up with anybody in front of them. They really know who they are. And, like, outside of the few games they had without Chris Paul, like, they really didn't

change much about them. And, like, even that, they just threw in campaign into the starting lineup and kind of did what they typically do. Whereas all these other teams, both because of injuries, but also because of just, like, malfunctions that have been going on. There have just been like different version. The bucks in particular, like I feel like they're a different team every night

and a lot of it comes down to like just like aggressiveness. I thought it was interesting last night when like the TNT crew just was like talking about like aggressiveness, but in particular when it's okay for someone not to be aggressive versus when they're aggressive, which spoke to me that like nobody knows what the fuck is happening with the bucks. And it's just like you get- aggressiveness really looks like.

Right, right. And I guess if you were to play devil's advocate, though, like maybe that unpredictability is like an advantage for the bucks in there. I don't know, man. It's a mess right now. And I wouldn't be surprised if the Hawks come in this next game. And then like Cam Reddish is scoring 30 points off the bench. I really do you, so you think this is destined to go seven? You don't think the bucks can take care of this in Atlanta?

I think that they can. I am just worried that while what they did make sense, maybe it's a little. easier to figure out. Like, if they're just going into pick and roll, making it simple, like maybe the Hawking game plan, and this is their counter to that, right? They didn't really get a lot of big games from some of the guys they got the previous game. And so I wonder if there's still, like, a couple things up, Nate McMillan's sleeve. Yeah, I wonder, I also, on the flip side of that, I just wonder whether, like, the clippers, the hawks are out of gas. Like, at a certain point, you just kind of run out of tricks. You run out, like, bogeys hurt,

Trey's hurt. Cam is on these high vapors of returning to action and stuff. But there's a certain point where I wonder whether or not their back court is just too defensively porous with Lou out there. And like you just wind up like, especially if Janus doesn't play, maybe Bud, who seems resistant to exploiting defensive matchups in typical times with Janus out there, maybe gets into it a little bit more. You know, it's funny with the Janus thing, it kind of reminds me of.

like there are these points in the Sixers season when Embed would miss time. And if Embed was ever like a game time decision and then the game time decision was he's not going to play, it always felt like there was something missing, you know, with the Sixers that night. And they even played like it. Like they almost played like we have like

this phantom limb or something like that. And like we kind of keep looking for Embed and he's not there. But if Embed was just like out, out, I felt like, and Simmons was playing. Like I felt like the Sixers actually were like, this is plan B. This is how we look when Joe is just like in street clothes.

And that's what I thought the bucks looked like last night. Like when Janice went down in game four, I feel like they were like, oh shit. Like what if he tore his knee? Like this is it after everything we've been through. And then when they were like, okay, he's going to be fine eventually. Let's go out there and take care of business.

It felt like a different team. It felt like they had the handbreak off a little bit. So it's been fascinating. I mean, you know, the Janus injury would have been the latest in a long line of injuries that kind of has defined this postseason. And it goes beyond just one.

It's basically, if you go back through all of the series of the playoffs, with a couple of exceptions, and most notably the Hawks and Knicks, because that was one where nobody really got hurt and everybody was kind of going to full guns. Except for Julius Randall's psyche. Yeah. That's right.

That's exactly right. But if you look at all the other series pretty much in the playoffs, there is some sort of injury that defines that that series. So you can't just say it's just, just been, oh, the top 11 guys got hurt. Like, it completely shaped the playoffs. Now, if I had told you going into the postseason, everybody's healthy, we're going to have a son's bucks finals.

What would you have said? I would be surprised. Right. But not shocked, right? Like, this is still an acceptable matchup of teams, I think. Yeah, certainly. It's certainly been diminished as well, just because, like, we'll see what we even get of Janus if we do get to see him in the finals of the advance.

I mean, not having the big. Ragu in there as well does certainly to make things. Like their margin of error is just so slim at this point. Like, you know, they are really teetering on the brink. It's like they're on one side, a super team. And then like one more player goes down and it's just like all of a sudden, Jeff Teague from those old Hawks team is your starting point guard. But no, I think you're right overall.

I can't say like the entertainment value has been what I had hoped for, especially in this Eastern Conference finals. So do you think that's because of the, because we've had some long series, we've had some, like, very competitive series, but do you think that the entertainment value has been diminished simply because of the absence

of their superstars? Or do you think that there's something about, like, the product that you've been watching that's different than maybe pre-bubble post seasons? No, I mean, I do think it's the superstar thing. I mean, last night's game was competitive. There have been a good deal of blowouts,

like, especially in the Eastern Conference finals where it's almost like turned the lights off after halftime. Like, there have been a few of those games. I think that it's had a real, like, effect on, like, you going into the night. You're like, am I going to be in this for five hours or am I going to be in this for like half an hour? Right. But, yeah, but I mean, like, I want to see the best players on the biggest stage. And, like, I think there are certain people out there on the internet would make you feel bad about that

because, like, we have to protect the small markets. And actually, the beauty of the game is the, like, strong side pick and roll and, like, icing and, like, that real, like, in-depth stuff. But, like, I want to see LeBron James play Janice or whoever, you know, Trey Young. Like, I want to see that with the biggest stakes there. Like, that's, that is what we spend usually 82 games and months and months and month building up to to the point where like the regular season has almost become,

especially this regular season, has become just a training ground for the playoffs. Like, guys just don't play as much, you know, just injury management. And it seems like teams are also building their teams on the fly a little bit more than they used to. So they're more just like trying stuff. the bucks prime example of that like as opposed to the previous regular seasons like they took this one

to like figure out defenses and trade for p j tucker and so like i i build up to this moment and it does feel like it's kind of had like a little bit of a wet fart especially in the eastern conference finals i mean you can tell like last night or the other on a wednesday night i guess it was when the suns won and when they won the western conference finals the CP3 industrial complex was like the train had already left the station You know what I mean? Like, it arrived and all, everybody was ready to be like, this, this is now cemented his legacy. This was always the CP3 season.

Talk to us about the years in the wilderness that you went through to get to get to this place. What was it about Monty? What was it about book? What was it about Phoenix? Even Robert Sarver got a redemption moment. You know what I mean? Where he was just like, we're not done yet. And it's just like, and it was like, wait a second, do I have to pay for another set of half if we win the finals?

Is that also on me? Did you see the thing that came out about him today about, like, him making this really, like, strange funeral speech about a guy who, I guess, was philandering in front of all of his family? No, what happened? Yeah. It just came out today. I think this was, like, a true hoops story. And this is, like, what, two days after they won the Western Conference finals, it was just like, hey, by the way, Robert Sarver last year told this, like, made this speech at some guy's funeral in front of his family that, like, he was actually, like, philandering on the side and was like, A real Tomcat.

Which is supposed to be like, kind of like, you guys, we all love Dave. He liked to get after it. We know that, right? He sounds like Wolf Farrell and Wedding Crashers. Like, he likes going to weddings, like, going to funerals. You guys could look it up, but like, there is something to do with a sock that happened to belong to Steve Nash that was used for very improper reasons. I'll just say that.

Well, we'll take that. So congratulations to Robert Sarver. it's a big moment for him. Yeah, no, but like I think that what I was really saying was just that like this CP3 thing, I felt like was really like, we were almost so excited to have anything to kind of be like, that's our true north. Chris Paul. Chris Paul being in the finals is a story.

It's an actual thing to follow. It's an actual thing that we thought might happen. And now it's like, I think the same thing will happen if the bucks get there and it can be like Janus going from. this two-time MVP regular season stat machine, and now he's figured out how to be a playoff, a playoff champ too. To be like an excellent postseason player,

we're clinging to it. We're clinging to it because we've lost so many of these players. I wanted to do with Justin, I thought it would be fun, kind of as a way of looking back on some of the performances and some of the things that we've seen over the postseason, to draft our all NBA playoff teams. Now, I think that there's two ways of doing drafts.

Like sometimes you can be like, here are all the rules. You have to have a certain amount of games played or something. I think that I'm open to interpretation here. I think that if you want to put, if you want to put a guy who played like one playoff game in here, you know, that's fine.

If you want to have a group of people who are mostly like still in action right now, that's fine. But we're going to draft back and forth. We're going to do it all NBA style. I made a slight tweak. So it's two guards, two wings in the center is what you're drafting. and I'm going to put Justin on the spot here

and say we also have to pick a coach. Oh, okay. Can I ask a couple questions? Absolutely. Not to put on my Rusilla hat here, but so is this team playing together one, or is this just like all NBA? I want to pick the best players for the best spots.

I thought we could decide this together because I was hoping you would ask me this. On one hand, you know, obviously all NBA is just like, I think all NBA teams generally speaking would kick ass, but you're not really thinking about like, hey, if you have this guy, this guy, and this guy, there's not enough ball to go around. I think we could do that for this if you want to.

Like, we could pick a team that we actually think would win the finals and that we would like to see play with one another and the way super teams are going. Maybe we might get a chance. But, yeah, like, I want to, I guess I wanted to see what you thought. I'd go the other way. I tend to think that all NBA should just be a representation of the best players. Let's just do representation of the best players.

So you're my guest. So you get the number one pick. Okay. And one more question. Yeah, sure. And this is based purely off of playoff performance, nothing else. Nothing else. Like, that's it.

Like, time started when the tip off of the first playoff game started. And so my number one player should be the player, I think, is the best player in the playoffs. Yes. Factoring in, like, you know, you have to worry about positional depth in a typical draft and whatnot. Yeah. Like, you wouldn't want to take, you know, I think that we only have to make two picks. right? So it's like you, there's probably two centers that we both could make an argument, had good playoffs, right? But when you get to the wings and the guards, it gets a little trickier.

Yeah, but if I'm being tactical, like maybe I wait on that center, you know? How did I wake up and be in a draft with another fantasy? This is crazy. Okay. I have first pick? Yeah. It's very, very kind of you. All right, I'm going to go Chris Paul. He's the best player in this postseason. I also, one of the big things I think we should talk about is like how much like, actually winning series matters. I definitely weighted players who are still playing

one and players who advance farther more than other players, even though there are some players. I'm sure we all know who those are that like had incredible one rounds or two rounds. But Paul to me has just been like everything you would want from a playoff MVP, a dominant player,

just taking the entire postseason by the throat. And that last game that they played, the Clippers at Staples Center is the prime example of that, whereas, like, you don't hear from Chris Paul much in the first half. Maybe, like, he's flopping a little bit, but he's typically, like, setting people up, making sure Devin Booker's being aggressive. Then all of a sudden, like, he takes over the game.

He ends up with 41 points. And, like, he ends up getting Patrick Beverly on tilt to the point where he's ejected, almost gets boogie ejected. It's like he is such a mastery and just like a vice grip over the game right now. it is so incredible. And to put on my sports writer, like I'm trying to like warp what's happening into this big picture theme.

I do think it's really interesting that like we've gone to this age of MBA where everything is so programmatic, like so 3 and D and the offenses are so turbocharged. And the player that is rising amidst the chaos is a guy who won is the best mid-range shooter in the NBA. Kirk Colesbury had a good piece on this the other day. like he is better than Durant, even though he's like a foot smaller.

At least. Yeah. And he's just like, he's making something out of nothing. And I think like, I think it's appropriate that he is the playoff MVP of this particular postseason. Yeah, he. So I felt this about the Sons for a while when you watch them. The word that always comes to mind about the Sons is platonic. Like that Sons starting lineup to me is like the platonic ideal of an NBA starting lineup.

today and also you could argue it would have been the same maybe like 15, 20 years ago where it's like you have a prototype center, you have two prototype wings, and you have the prototypical scoring guard, and the broke the mold, this is the guy in the lab, if you were going to make a point guard,

you would give him this dude's brain and this dude's sense of space. Maybe you'd make him a little taller or whatever, but like this guy's idea, in his concept, like when you watch all of these playoff games, and there's been so many runs. And Justin was talking a little bit earlier

about watching the regular season and feeling like it's basically this, you know, rehearsal for the postseason and that that's why this is, it felt a little anticlimactic to see so many superstars go out. But during the regular season, if a team goes up 25, chances are the team that's down is probably like, well, we lost that one.

You know, and then you're going to try and keep it respectable, but it's unlikely that a team is going to put everything together to make up a 25 point difference in February. But that's happening pretty routinely in the postseason now. Maybe not 25 points, but double digit leads getting erased, runs. So what you basically need is a guy who's going to stop the bleeding. And that ultimately comes down to the point guard. And LeBron's really great at it.

And, you know, the only person who's better than LeBron at it is Chris Paul. He's the only, and it's been debated. It's already been dissected to death. But that, Clippers cut it to seven in game six. And Chris Paul is just like, nope. We're not, we are not going to get into trading body blows with these guys in their gym. Like, we're going to put this away now. And that is a unique talent in the NBA.

So I applaud your pick. I guess my only counter would be, did you miss too much time in these playoffs, even though he's still in the playoffs? It's a great point. Yeah. I mean, I'm kind of giving him a pass just because his absence was COVID related. Although I have to say, like, did you watch after they won that game the other night? And he was just like really liberal about who he was touching.

and like going into the stands. Yeah. I mean, I'm... That was wild. I have now officially gotten to the point where I just... I don't understand why some guys are wearing masks. Some guys aren't. Some guys are hugging random fans.

Some guys seem to be like off by themselves in different parts of the bench area. Like some coaches are wearing masks. Some coaches aren't like... And then even the... Did you have you been to a game in the last couple weeks? No. So it's like it also seems like we've gotten kind of... of to that like, that like, it's just below my nose or hanging off my chin area.

Right. You know, and at Dodger's... Wayne is okay. Yeah. At Dodger Stadium, like, I went the other week, and Dodger Stadium is obviously outdoors, it's masks off, but yeah, it's a very confusing time with that stuff. And I just don't really... Do we know, like, what happened to Chris Paul?

Was he... Did he get COVID or did someone he know had COVID so he was in protocols? There seems to be a consensus that he did have COVID. I can't tell. if he was vaccinated before or not because I hear something different every single time. Okay. All right. Can I make a counter to my own, like, pick?

Oh, you want to, you want to argue the opposite side? Yeah, because I asked specifically about, like, are we building a team for a specific reason? Because I think it's well documented how much Chris Paul, like, grinds on people. And, like, there are plenty examples of this. Just, like, watch any game with Blake Griffin and him or DeAndre Jordan or any of the clippers, actually.

I've really figured out, like, why during that post-game celebration the other night where little wayne he goes and like daps him up and then brings him in and like then proceeds to like parade little wayne around to all of his new friends like he's like hey d'andre ate and meet little way and he's like hey campaign have you met my friend little wayne it was like it was very like you are in college but your your brother's friends are all in high school and like you decide to buy beer with them like beer for this guy made dedication too. You should download it.

It's really good. Right. It was really like you could tell how much he needs younger people to like look up to him. It was also really funny when he was like on the verge of tears. He was like Billy Crystal.

That's my family, man. This guy is famous, man. You are really famous. All right. So let's Chris Paul, I'm going to go the opposite direction what Justin did. So Justin has obviously picked the guy who probably has had

the defining performance of the NBA playoffs. He's done more to change maybe the way people have looked at him than any other player. I'm going to go with a guy who wasn't with us very long in the NBA playoffs, but gave the single greatest individual performance that I've seen, and that's Kevin Durant.

I'm going to put him at wing. He did not make the Eastern Conference finals. He was two inches, maybe even less than that, short of one of the great game-winning shots I had ever seen in my life had that three-pointer regulation gone in against the Bucks, but instead of the two, and then obviously he really ran out of gas. But his performance throughout the playoffs, but especially against the Bucks,

is some of the best offensive basketball I've ever seen in my life. He really basically never sat. He's coming off of an Achilles tendon tear, which Justin and I are both old enough to remember that point five years ago when that just meant your career was over. Like, you might come back and you might be Wesley Matthews or something. And no disrespect to Wesley Matthews, it's really impressively he's back. But that was just supposed to be it.

You're not supposed to be able to do what Duran is doing. And to me, when the chips are down, I think he's the best player in the NBA. You know, and I thought, like, he gave us a couple of those nights where it's like, that's why you watch playoff basketball. is to see a guy like that do something like that. Yeah. And he's playing in Team USA this summer. I can't believe.

And I didn't realize this until I looked it up yesterday. Also, Draymond and Steve Kerr are on that team. Oh, really? He's just like thrusting himself into like the most. I think him are still cool. I just didn't know that Kerr and him were cool. But you know, it's all Twitter, man. Yeah.

Have you watched last chance you, the basketball season of it? No. Is he involved in that somehow? No, he's not, but it's really good. But I think about this a lot now where there's this one scene where there's this player who used to be on the level of Kevin Durant as a prospect, but he went through a lot of trouble. And now, like, he is trying to find a college scholarship to get into, like,

he ends up at Long Beach State, spoiler alert. But he talks about the difference between a Hooper and a basketball player. And, like, I feel like that was Kevin Durant's postseason. like, that's the best way to explain it, where it's just like, there really wasn't much else. Like, if you wanted to, like, diagram, like,

all the play breakdowns and all this other stuff, you could, but it really came down to this amazing basketball player being able to get a bucket. Yeah. Like, the difference between a Hooper and a basketball player is someone

when you need to score, he will. A basketball player is someone who's, like, a little bit more programmatic, like, who'll do the right things when you drill them into him. Kevin Durant is very much the former.

And I'm just like, oh, that is what that is. There was that clip going around. I can't remember from what postseason it was, but it was Pat Bev and Lou Williams on the Clippers. And I guess it was from like the Warriors post season where he was going off. And there was like a post, it was like a post game press conference with those two guys.

And Duran had just like exploded for however money points. And and Lou Williams and Pat Beverly were laughing at a question they were asked because I think it was like, do you guys think about switching up coverages? And he was just like, we did. Like it's not like we didn't talk about like maybe we should stop him. you know, we can double him, but it's like, there's a certain point where there's a guy

who's like operating in a rarefied air and is just like able to score the basketball on anything you want to throw at him. So yeah, I mean, he's, it's really cool to have him back in the cut. He needs to log off. What's your, what's your second pick?

All right, so this one's difficult because I do feel like the wing depth is a little more shallow than some of these other positions. But I'm going to corner the market on the guards. And I'm going to go with Tray Young. Okay.

Definitely the injuries are a factor here, but I feel like this is one of the best postseason debuts we've ever seen. Yep. To the point where Kevin Pelton had on ESPN had a piece about this the other day, like ranking those. And he was, I think he was fourth.

But just in terms of points scored, he had the fourth most in a debut behind the likes of LeBron, Luca, and Anthony Davis. So he's very much in a rare fight air. and just considering where he was, even going into the postseason and especially where we were with him

at the All-Star break and earlier this season, like it's one of the most miraculous, like, oh shit, this guy is awesome, like turnaround that I can never remember. I think that for me, as somebody who I actually watched him a fair amount of Oklahoma and then got kind of tired of the way

he was playing in Atlanta pretty quickly, where, you know, whenever I would see him play the Sixers or something like that, I would just be like, man, this is like all the worst aspects of Hardin's game,

but without the wins. So I'm just actually watching a loser. And so I think I kind of zoned out a little bit on Trey for a while there. And what's impressed me most over the last few months checking them out since McMillan took over because it felt like that was a page turn moment for him in his career is just the emphasis

that I put like watching him on his passing, which is really, really like incredible and also just because he's somebody who he's that rare small guard who seems to use everything about his body is an advantage rather than a disadvantage you know and it's like there's only a few guys there's like paul iverson nash tray are guys that are able to and isaiah thomas was was at his best uh the boston isaiah thomas was at his best was able to do this where it's like he's almost somehow using his size as like oh you you don't understand the angles I can see from down here.

You know what I mean? And he's mastered that Steve Nash, the run under the backboard, and like then now flip the axis of the floor where he's playing point guard from under the hoop and he can hit guys, like he can kick out for a three or he can find a cutter or he can go back up for the floater. He's just got such an incredible bag. It's just really awesome to watch. I love that trade pick. And that is something I did not think I would be saying at the end of the playoffs is I love that Tray Young pick. He warps the floor. He warps the floor. floor in ways that like every way you would want from an offensive player like I think we think about this in terms of gravity and in particular with shooting and certainly like the deep threes have an

effect on everyone else but like also the passing as you're mentioning but also just like the foul drawing like it's not something that I would endorse I don't enjoy watching it and I'm glad that they might be legislating it out of the game very shortly but like it almost feels like he plays with a force field around him because guys are just like scared to get near him because he might just like wiggle his butt back into them and then all of a sudden he's on the free throw line. And you could see like how everything opens up from there. I am curious like once they legislate out the free throw thing like whether or not like he will be as effective because of that. But right now it's almost like he just like he makes the floor just like just completely different.

It's an open concept with him out there as opposed to like all this furniture cluttered into the one space. Well, it's also like this is, you know, he's going through this postseason. You mentioned how young he is obviously he's in the Luca and eight in class. But you know, he's got the shoulder injury. Now he has a bone bruise on his foot. It seems unlikely that we're going to see him unless I wonder if there's a game seven and he's just like, I have to go out there. But I can't believe the amount of contact he

takes. There's a lot of bullshit contact that he initiates by like torpedoing into a guy like 15 feet from the hoop. But he will take it to the cup. And like he'll hit the deck. And he pays for it. So respect. It's really like he's an incredibly tough player. Like even if he's also

sometimes a cheap one. So for my second pick, this is actually kind of hard because now you get into like, okay, I want to get, you know, I want to protect my team here in terms of positional optionality. But since Justin has his backcourt, I'm going to go ahead and take Janus as my other wing. You know, before the injury,

me and me and Was went on Bill's pod. The night, Janice got hurt. And Bill had initially planned on having Ben Thompson on. He was a huge Bucks fan and does the trajectory newsletter. to basically be like, are we underrating how good he is? You know, the free throws, the free throw clock, some of the maybe misguided three-pointers

that he was taking earlier in the playoffs, a lot of the sort of ball handling that he was doing are kind of stopping up the buck's offense by like dribbling at the top of the key for eight seconds or nine seconds. That aside, the numbers are the numbers. And like, when we look back on this playoffs, I think we're just going to be gobsmacked by what he was able to accomplish offensively

and playing his ass off defensively, like guarding three or four different guys. I think this is going to be an incredible finals to see what's going to happen. Is this going to be Chris Paul's moment? Is this going to be Janice's moment? I think we'll probably have a booker conversation in the next couple of minutes. But the opportunity, it's like this might be the best chance. This will be the best chance either of them ever has to win the finals. So, like, it's all out there for the taking.

Yeah. I mean, you could say a lot about the free throw shooting, about the three-point shooting. I mean, we basically did in the previous segment. But, like, he went toe to toe with Kevin Durant, who is, as we just mentioned, having one of the best post-season ever. He came one Steve Nash sock away from making this one of the best post-season ever. And that means something. Like, that is the difference between a Bucs team that can go toe-to-to-to-to with the Sons versus

is one that even if they make it past the Eastern Conference finals, you would expect to be just like Kinling for for that team. I think the thing that gets lost among all this is just like the impact that he has on the defensive event. I look this up beforehand, best defensive rating in the playoffs among anyone who's played double digit games. And like you look at it, it's like it's mostly bucks players too. And like it's probably a big factor why they won last night. It's also a big factor why like they've been so successful. Like he just completely changes things on that end. And like I think it's a good pick for that reason. Like one of the few players I think were probably going to mention who's two-way impact.

Like, he affects both sides of the ball as opposed to just like being just completely dynamic on offense. Okay. So it's your third pick now. Okay. So I'm just going straight off my board here, best player available. I'm going to go with Paul George. So I'm loading up on wings and guards here.

But I think that there's like a real conversation to be had about like who was the best player when available between him and Kauai. But Paul George has been available. literally more than any other player in this postseason. You gave it everything, man. Absolutely everything. 776 minutes over 19 games he played, which was 130 more than the number two on that list,

who's Devin Booker. He's just like, he did everything you could possibly ask for. Like, there are certainly times when, like, Reggie Jackson had to step up and fill the void in crunch time, but, like, they don't get as far as they did without Paul George. I mean, he basically played like three. three months of basketball in the span of, what, a couple weeks, two months maybe. Just like a heroic feat that I think like really is causing people to think about him differently

than they had been, including myself going into this post season. He also got a chance to get off the mat a couple of times. He had some bad games when he missed the two free throws down the stretch. He had some pandemic P games, but he had a lot of playoff P games. Like he really did, he's not the guy who's going to be perfect every night. I guess that's Durant. I guess in some ways that's like statistically, that's Janus. More often than not, it's a guy like, you know,

Luca will have the gaudy numbers. George is not in that league. He's not in Kauai's league if they're both healthy. You know, I mean, Kauai, I think, was getting into that, oh shit, is this the best two-way player on the planet zone right before he got hurt? But you're right, man. I mean, like, if you, I don't think you're laughing at Paul George anymore. Did you consider Kauai at all, not to, like, reveal the rest of your board?

I certainly did. I mean, I didn't, he's, he's just, it's so, it's so interesting because he's like quieter than Janus the way he puts, puts his nights together. And it's, it's very old school and like, hey, it's really building. Have you looked at Kauai's numbers? He's got 28 and going into the third quarter here. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's like, and you start to realize, you know, just, just what an amazingly diverse offensive player he is and just how many different things he does on a basketball court. I don't really like think that his injury or his departure earlier in the playoffs is any

that significantly different than like Durant going out in the second round. You know, and we just don't know what happened to his knee. I mean like there still haven't been like an official announcement. It's like was like a tear. Is it like just a strain, a sprain dehyper extended? Like what happened? But I definitely considered it. Yeah.

I mean, it's crazy because you look at the efficiency boards and he's still like leading the playoffs in PR. and you forget, like, especially in that first round, like, he was the difference. Like, Luca was taking over the series and he just decided, I am going to guard him on one end, and then I'm going to pretty much match him on the offensive end. Like, he really just, like, had the type of game that, like, you wish he would have all the time, but, like, he probably has to save himself up for, like, moments like this, like, for the playoffs. He load manages for the playoffs. But I think this is the case where, like, I'm actually glad that we don't have to go purely off

of statistics because, like, we have the results. in order to influence our picks here. And like Paul George played that extra round and like pushed them to the point where like they almost won that series. Like I'll be honest, like if they had Kauai, I think they probably would have won that series against the Sons.

Yeah. And he did as good a job as possible. Like, you know, like credit to Reggie Jackson, credit to some of these other guys. But like they shouldn't have been in that series and Paul George was like the main reason why. Right. So from my third pick,

I am going to go with a garden. I'm going to take Devin Booker. So this is a guy up there with Trey Young, who I think I really did, I respected the hell out of Devin Booker. Like, I loved his game. Like, much like Kauai, I love the kind of, like, diversity of his offensive game.

Like, I love the different levels of his scoring. But I think that I was a little bit cynical about, like, hashtag built diff. You know what I mean? Like, like, a lot of, like, Mamba mentality. Like, this guy, it's neck, he's next. And, like, a lot

of like, just sort of like, this is the coming attraction. When's the movie going to start? And the movie started. You know, like, watching him go through that Clipper series, you know, he had to deal with Patrick Beverly living in his, in his pocket for the entire time. It's got a broken nose, face mask on,

face mask off. And for as gaudy and sensational as some of Paul's performances were in terms of like the narrative, Booker's the spinal cord of that team. Like Booker and his steady clip of 27, 28, 29, a night, or whatever it is, keeps that Sun's team afloat so that they can withstand any variance.

And so really impressive. And it's also just really cool to see, like, a two guard. Like, you know, like, he is, he is the shooting guard of, like, of, like, how we grew up thinking of, like, you know, I think he's got a lot more to his game, maybe than, say, Ray Allen right now. Like, it reminds me more of, like, Ray Allen on, like,

the bucks kind of, you know, than the heat. But he has so much, so much, refinement to his offensive game. It's really awesome to watch. So Booker's my guard there, first pick. Okay. Yeah, I think it's interesting with him, like, I think two or three years ago, he would have been pushed into the

hardened mold where, and he literally was going to be pushed into that, where he was the ball handling guard who did everything for the team and then everything just revolved around him. There's a lot of point Booker. It was going to be like he's going to be the playmaking, yeah. Yep. And then they didn't really go that route. They paired them with, like, just

like a past first point card, even before, like, Chris got there. They were doing a little bit more of that. And you're starting to see how he's been able to thrive in that role. It's been interesting watch because Evan Mitchell, another prime example of this, like, where Mike Conley comes in and just almost unlocks him in a way that had prior. And it's just like, it seems like it's just purely not having as much to do, right? Like, it's funny how like if you just allow someone to just focus on what they do well and not just overload them with things that are unnecessary, like they could do pretty good. Yeah. Absolutely. The only thing that's really like that led me to push Booker down on my board was just like he didn't really rise to

the occasion during these poll games. And you could probably say a lot of that was the mask. It seemed like he really had a difficult time with that. Like he had it on one game, had it off. It probably limited his aggressiveness until that last Western Conference Finals game. But he really didn't have the statistical output that I probably would have liked in order to draft him a little bit higher. Right. Yeah. I think that all in all, like, it was like a body of evident, like a body of work. You know, he was, yeah, 22 in the close-out game was kind of like, you know,

riding in the passenger seat to greatest with Paul who had 41 that night. And he had a bad three-point shooting night against the clippers that close out game, one for seven. So sometimes the outside shooting, I think, abandons him a little bit, and that will kind of trip him up. But, yeah, like, I think now that we're getting into this zone, we're going to have a couple of positional debates. And then I think we're also going to, you know,

maybe we'll get a couple of more obscure names. So who's your fourth pick? Just to recap, you have two guards and one wing, right? Yeah, I have Chris Paul, Tray Young, and Paul George. Okay. And right now, so those are three of the top four on my board. So I'm really happy with where I am right now in this draft. I'm going to go with number five, who is one Joelle and Bede,

who had just an absolutely fucking magnificent playoff, ruined by the scourge of Philadelphia, Ben Simmons. Like, you just look at all of those statistics, man. like two-way impact, net rating, leading the playoffs and free throws attempts. His three-point percentage, I completely forgot. This was like 40%. Like had just an absolutely awesome, awesome playoffs and really just like didn't have enough to back him up, which is like really disappointing.

Because I mean, like everything was shaping up for this guy to win MVP to lead his team to the finals. It just didn't happen that way. And I don't think any of it's his fault. Like, I guess you could fault maybe like some of his, his bones because they don't really stand up to the test of time. I mean, he played most of the playoffs on a torn meniscus. You are right. But I will say that I think that being like, Embed was let down by his supporting cast is a little, is slightly easy narrative.

I felt like in Bid's late game performances, especially against the Hawks, were somewhat disappointing. and especially in the last two losses to the Hawks, I felt like he was very sloppy with the ball down the stretch. And ultimately, like, you know, Kevin Durant, you watch him out there and he's playing with a hobbled James Harden, Bruce Brown, Joe Harris, Landry Shamit, like this collection of guys that they've got that was not the intended sort of,

they didn't intend for that to be the nets. They didn't intend for James Hardin to not be able to hit the front of the rim from three-point range during a playoff series. And Kevin Durant just left it all out there. But also, I never really saw Kevin Durant, like, his body language never changed. His, like, energy never really changed towards his team. And I think that Embeded had a little bit of a tendency

to, like, sink his shoulders when he felt like he was being let down by his team or left down by his circumstances. He has every right to be frustrated by Simmons. I don't think Simmons is going to be on the Sixers next year. So that's, that's, situation will probably take care of itself. But I did think that NB still needs to learn the last part about being a star, which is that ultimately the buck stops with you. And if the sons had lost

that series, that would have been on Chris Paul. You know what I mean? Like, nobody would have been like, yeah, but Aidan didn't help him out enough. Right. Yeah, I mean, I agree with you on the late game stuff. Like, definitely a lot of turnovers and just seemed like he tried to take over and just really wasn't in his bag. Like, it really seemed like it was a difference between like a monster truck versus a Ferrari and like you see how that type of player, the monster truck player, like, can't really do what a Durant does when you really need him to. Like, he's a awesome isolation player, but like, is he going to get you those buckets when you need them to? I guess my counter to that would just simply be like if you had Jimmy Butler instead of Ben Simmons, if that

tradeoff had gone differently and he'd still be on that team. Just to pick any player at random? Yeah. Right. Right. Like, would they have the closer to compliment him? Did he have the right guys around him to compliment him after like Danny Green went out and you're playing more thibble and guys who are a little bit more limited shooting wise and thus you're going to get a little bit more crowded. I don't know. I would love to have the answer. I would love to have this answer. I'll pick my my fourth player here. So you've got Embed, Paul George, Chris Paul, and Trejo. I have Durant, Booker, Janus. My fourth player, I'm going to go. Can I, Luke is a guard. I don't want to tell you the answer.

Because I don't want to pick him. I think he's technically a Ford. No, he's not. You're a lot. I think if you look positionally, I think he's a forward. I think he's probably like a guard forward. But he was a guard on All-MBA this year, though. It was him and Steph for the back court for the All-N-Ba team, right?

I believe so. So I'm going to go with Luca as my guard. Okay. Luca probably has still, even though I think Trey is awesome and Aiton's obviously awesome. We've learned so much about a lot of these guys. And I think Luca still, you know, we'll get into the like,

is it Lucas supporting cast or could Luca do some different things usage-wise and distribution-wise and maybe like, you know, getting other guys involved. Sure, we can have that conversation. But, like,

Luca, I think, has the best shot of that group of players to be a transcendent franchise changing, like LeBron-esque figure in the league going forward. He's incredible. Yeah, I mean, you know, he lost to the Clippers. So I'm not saying like, you know, it's not like he doesn't have things to work on.

And, and, you know, I think that there was definitely some challenges. And I think that Clipper series, he was obviously, like, so erratic. Like, you know, he was himself consistent. But I think that just the swings that that series took were so, like, just not like what we're used to in the NBA. I mean, all road wins and these huge leads. And then huge leads getting erased. So it was very strange playoffs, but I definitely think that, like, we're looking at the ultimate offensive weapon in a lot of ways, you know, both in terms of scoring, but also in terms of playmaking. Yeah. I mean, very LeBron first finals vibes from him where, like, if a couple games go a little bit differently, we might be saying, like, holy shit, Luca just brought Drew Gooden and like Donnell Marshalls to the, uh, the Western Conference finals, you know?

Like he had that level of impact where he did so much more with the least amount. And it's pretty incredible. I mean, his best teammate was probably like Tim Hardaway Jr. in that series. And they might not even bring him back. Yeah. It's just it was unbelievable. I really hope they get him some better teammates because he could do some awesome stuff in the future.

Who's your fifth pick? So this one is difficult because I'd have to pick a wing at this point, right? Mm-hmm. Because I have D'Andre A in higher, but I can't pick him. him and really like Damien Lillard is a guard so I can't pick him. I guess I have to go with Kauai because it's between Kauai and Middleton for me. Right. I think Kauai was more consistent in the appearances he made than Middleton has been even though he's got more more games played. Right, right. Maybe by the end of this playoffs, we can look back and say Milton, but yeah,

Kauai was an assassin early on for all the reasons I said earlier about like why I would even consider him over Paul George even. Okay. I'm going to go with I mean, we talked to, we talked a little bit about Kauai, but so I'll just go with, I'll go with Aitin here for my center. Yeah. You know, Yokic, I guess you could consider for sort of single-handedly beating the

Blazers. I don't know if that was more of an indictment on the Blazers than it was like a sort of tribute to the Nuggets, but that was an incredible performance. I think it was somewhat overshadowed by Lillard's heroics in a effort, but it was still a really impressive performance by Yokic, but we're not talking about

Yokch, we're talking about Aiton. Aidan's probably done more for his, like, stock or like the perception of him around the league. A lot of people who, like going into the playoffs, I think people who were big supporters of his are probably feeling pretty good about their, their basketball acumen now. He's, you know, look, he's able to do what guys like Rudy and some other big, big name centers weren't able to do, just stay on the floor. in the NBA postseason. That's the big one. Yeah.

And maybe that's, maybe that's the biggest thing you could say about him. He averaged 38 minutes in that Clipper series. He played 40 in the closeout game. Like, you're not taking him off the floor.

And if anything, his physicality and his aggressiveness, they go back to aggressiveness, like force the Clippers to do things that they probably wouldn't want to have. Like, they had to play Zubach at starting center and had to play him a lot.

There are times where they had to put to Mark his cousins in the game. And like, even when they went micro in that last game, like, you were seeing cousins come in and it seemed like to kind of read the tea leaves. They were putting him in specifically because Aiton on a matchup with Terrence Mann would like power him down low. Even though the statistics didn't probably show it, like, that trickle down effect was like spreading throughout the entire game. It was incredible. Yeah. I mean, it was a really, in a lot of ways, like, Aiton is like the center's last stand, you know? I mean, at least in these playoffs,

like Yokic, Embed, Gobert of all been eliminated, but Aiton is playing a pure center role. He's playing with probably the best point guard you can play with at Fiora Center, which is Paul and like his lobs and his ability to run at pick and roll with Aiton is just, there's nobody who can orchestrate that better. And he's the beneficiary of that. And he looks awesome on both ends of the floor. I also just think he's like got a really fun personality. He's just really enjoyable to follow throughout this postseason.

So I'm happy to have him as CR's center. So I think we got our teams, right? Yeah. You want to run through them again? Yeah. So my starting five, I got Luca and Devin Booker in the back court. Durant and Janice are my wings. And DeAndre Aiton is my center.

Okay. And I have Chris Paul and Trey Young in the back court, Paul George, and Kauai Leonard, along with one Joel Embed. Anybody you're really surprised we didn't pick or didn't come off the board? The only, the best player available, that didn't get picked was Yokic for me. Yeah.

You know, I mean, I had to take simmering during the playoffs where I was like, if Yokish doesn't lead this team to the second round, I'm going to look at his MVP win differently. Because you know that whole axiom of like, if you are the guy, you should be able to get your team to the second round. Like the West is probably more brutal than ever before, but I kind of can't stop myself from thinking that.

And I was thinking like, I get it, Jamal Murray's not there, Will Barton isn't even there. Harris isn't even there, but you have enough to beat the Blazers. And I'm glad that he did, because then I didn't have to really, like, put that out into the world. I also, I would have liked to have seen that I'll be interested to see, even if, you know, you lose Murray and Murray's going to be out, I think, for a bit of the regular season next year. I would like to see, like, Aaron Gordon with a training camp on that team, because I think he was starting to come into his own.

The MPJ thing will probably be like a whole offseason debate about what to do with him and whether, you you can have a team that works with MPJ and Yokic and Marie on the floor at the same time. I think that you can. But, like, Porter is obviously, like, on a night-to-night basis is going to be a little bit erratic. But, yeah, I mean, Yokish had to carry that team, no matter what. If we kept picking, well, we could do coaches before we're done. But, like, if we kept picking, how, like, how long do you think it would have taken to see a, Reggie Jackson or somebody, like, really obscure come off the board? We were getting there.

Yeah. Right. Guard especially. Yeah. I mean, the only two other guys that I had that we didn't mention or that we didn't pick were Yokic and Lillard and I guess Middleton. But after that, we're like scraping the bottom of the barrel. We're talking about like Bobby Portis, right now. Yeah.

You know. What about you? I think that like, like campaign, has campaign had a better playoffs than Drew Holiday? Yeah. I mean, you could definitely make the argument. Not defensively, but yeah. Who would your coach be? I'd go with Ty Lou.

Just the fucking master class in terms of matchups and adjustments. Like, I am just blown away just watching him do things and like work the knobs. It was incredible. Like no shout, no like shade to Monty Williams, but like, oh my God, I just have an entire new respect for that guy. Yeah, I mean, I think Ty dealt with some stuff that would have broken other coaches in half. And the fact that everything in NBA postseason conventional wisdom suggests you should play seven guys. guys and you know it's everything is about like these sort of almost like inning to inning kind

of pitching matchups these these very specific like okay this guy has to go play against this guy and then we need to gird against this guy being exposed tyloo played like 10 dudes on a nightly basis and on any given night it was like luke card might get benched for two games and then he might star in a third game you know and i think he obviously communicated to his team that that was like the reality that they were living in where he was like at any given moment i need you not only to be ready to play, but be ready to contribute. And that was really impressive to watch. I'll take Monty. You know, I think that really heartwarming story, obviously, with his personal background coming through the tragic accident, but, you know,

with his family, but like just also in general, like you can tell the connection his team has to him. And I think that beyond this X's and O's, I mean, he drew up probably maybe by accident the most famous play of this postseason, which is the value. But yeah, really, really cool story. So yeah, Ty and Monty, I think we're in class by themselves. No doc. No doc. Not, I don't think it's Doc's fault, but I does not, no doc. He definitely has some blame. Like, there's a real like alternate timeline happening with the Sixers that how many how many coaches have to coach the Sixers before we're like, it's the Sixers? Let's not get into this. Okay, Justin, man, thank you so much for joining me today. Uh, group chat next week. You can hear JV and he's

also popping up on green room from time to time, and I always love it when he comes on the watch. Thanks, man. We're not on the watch. It's on the answer. Same thing. Later.