The Ringer NBA Show - Who Is … Who Will Be … | Group Chat

Episode Date: December 28, 2022

Justin, Rob, and Wos answer five “who is” questions, starting with who is the best team (4:53). Then they predict who will be the best team. They do this for four other prompts including MVP (20:35), a disgruntled superstar (33:10), a team in serious trouble (48:29), and who’s taken the leap (1:01:17). They wrap up by opening up the suggestion box (1:07:28). We want to hear from you! Email us at [e-mail] Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Associate Producer: Isaiah Blakely Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, this is Rob Harvilla from 60 Songs That Explain the 90s, the world's greatest loopy and perverse and inaccurately named music nostalgia podcast. We're doing 90 songs now because there's too many songs. Pearl Jam, JZ, Jewel, YouTube, Cher, Hootie. These are just some of the names people yell at me on the internet because we're back. More great songs, more rad special guests, more loopy perversity. Join us once more on 60 Songs That Explain the 90s every Wednesday on Spotify. And welcome to this end of year edition of group chat.

I am Justin Barrier, joining me, as always, Big Was, and rocking the 10-gallon hat, the big old boots. It's Texas zone, Rob Mahoney. You will not catch me dead in a bolo. So help me, God, Justin. You will not catch me in a bolo. Have you ever owned a cowboy hat? 100%. Yeah.

Wow. I've worn it ironically. I've worn it unironically. The whole spectrum is available to me. What about you, Oz? Any cowboy gear? No, I've never owned a cowboy hat. A lady friend the other day suggested that I might purchase cowboy boots.

And I was like, this is not a thing. It's not my culture. If I was from Texas, perhaps, or even maybe Arizona or something like that, somewhere in the southwest, I'd be able to co-op that culture. But New York City, this is not what we do. We do Timberland boots. You know what I'm saying? Or some of our other crazier people do lugs.

Shout to Funkflex and the Birdman. Lugs. You will find no appropriation here on group chat. No, absolutely not. Oh, well, technically not,

although I think I did have a pair of lugs and Tim's back in the day. So maybe it's the other words. I feel like I get to know you with just a little bit more per episode. Oh, you should see me in sixth grade, man. Not only did I have a Fubu football jersey, the one that L.O.

Cool J used to wear, but I was wearing like pure players shirts. Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah, like so like kind of the off brand. What the hell was going on in Connecticut? Was that like a Marshall situation where it was like, all this stuff was at Marshalls and stuff like that?

Or were you just legitimately like, yo, L.L. is the coolest guy on the planet. I want to dress like him. Probably a little bit of both. There were definitely a lot of Marshall's trips in my youth. There are still to this day Marshall's gift cards. So shout to the family for keeping the traditions alive here. But it was also like my brother was very much into hardcore rap at that point. I was like four years younger.

So I was listening to the very explicit content at an even younger age and fall in the seat. Is that where, is L.L. where the backwards hats came from? Because I feel like you were a big backwards hat guy. I was a big backwards hat guy. I don't think I was an LL fan specifically more

as I was just a representative of the culture. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I did not know your brother was a really huge rap guy. But to be honest, pretty much everybody, white, black, Latin, you name it, in the tri-state area was indoctrinated into hip-hop culture. So you should never really be that surprised when people who live within close proximity at a mecca

become, you know, hip-hop disciples. A lot of religious metaphors there, guys. I hope I didn't go over you guys' heads with that. No, that works. All right, let's get into the strict. for today here. We're going to get into SuggestionBoss. Keep sending your emails into SuggestionBoss, g.c.gmail.com. But, you know, we just got past the Christmas Day games, which are kind of a marker on the NBA calendar. It's kind of the unofficial start to the season for

the casual fan. It's because that's when football transitions to basketball, or at least it starts to. And we're also kind of getting toward the new year. So things are changing. So I wanted to get a little refresher on the books, a look back at what has happened in the season. far, but also look ahead to the fresh start ahead of us. So we're going to be looking at some categories. We're going to be answering them based on who is the best at it right now, or who is the answer to the question right now, but also who will be at the end of the season. So a little recap, a little forecasting. Does that make all sense, Rob? Yeah, I mean, I got a lot of like ghosts of Christmas present and future vibes from this when you floated it. So I can see the Dickensian angle

you're coming from and I support you. You know me. Just sloshing through the snow and in my tins just, you know, just just to the soup line. Bah humbug. Yeah, exactly. All right. Why don't we start right from the top,

the biggest question in the NBA. Who is the best team as of right now? Did anyone try to think outside the box and not pick the Celtics? Let's start there. I feel like it'd be disingenuous if we did, right? For two seconds, though, for two seconds, I did want to say the Warriors. Just because of what they did against Memphis without Steph Curry,

it's just like whenever I see these guys care, they win against the best teams in the league. Like, when they really try, they beat guys, and they do it with mental toughness, execution, and obviously highly skilled players. But for two seconds, I'm like, Like, man, when they embarrassed the freaking Celtics on national TV, the first time they're playing since the finals, wow.

Like, yeah, this might still be the best team in the league. When Memphis, who has just gone out of their way to disrespect these guys publicly, you know, like, not just like, oh, during the games, we jar at them. They say, yo, who are you guys thinking about on your road to trying to become a championship? See, we're like, man, we're thinking about the Celtics, you know, the Bucks, who have already won a championship. Yeah, those are the team like going out of their way to not talk about the team that eliminated them

from last year's playoffs. So when I see them do those kind of things and I get it. Two game samples are very small samples and we shouldn't get carried away. But it's just something in me when Golden State is challenged, I feel like they're the best team, right? Or they've shown themselves in small bursts

to be that best team. But, you know, to be honest, my answer is the Celtics. Come on now. Yeah. I mean, if we could parse like who's playing the absolute best basketball right this second. Like if that might be a non-Seltics answer,

like the Sixers have looked really good lately, the Nets have looked surprisingly good. I kind of can't believe what I'm saying it, but they've looked pretty good lately. So those teams could certainly be a contingent for that, but the Celtics have been the best team for the longest stretch, the best team on balance,

and they, like, to your point about, like, big signature wins was, like, they just had a huge monster win over the bucks. There was a pretty big statement in itself, considering, you know, the backslide, relative speak, relatively speaking that the Celtics have been on of late. Best record, best point differential,

best net rating, best offense. So they really checked the box here. I think the only caveat you could throw in there is that after the Warriors lost, they looked a little bit until they had lost five of six until this recent three game winning streak. But I kind of write that off as just, they were gearing up for that one.

It's pretty damaging to pretty much base. Like you're expecting that game to really dictate the future there. You know you're going to be a good regular season team. If you lose that one, you're probably going to be hurt for a little bit. And so they've kind of gotten back on track. And to Rob's point, you know, the Bucks game was pretty incredible. They didn't have Chris Middleton. So like maybe you could add that caveat in there and maybe say the Bucks, but I think you really need to strain to pick anyone other than the Celtics right now. So that brings us to the next question, who will be the best team by the end of the season.

Rob, you seem like the type of guy who wants the zag here and pick someone else. You know, it is kind of a zag, but it's a zag that's going to bring me and Woz closer together because I kind of think it's going to be the Denver Nuggets. And for me, look, watching them lately, I'm picking up on two vibes as it relates to the Nuggets and the team we just talked about the Celtics. One, I think Denver is going to overtake Boston as the most efficient offense in the league by the end of the season. They're already pretty close.

They've just been getting closer and closer and closer. By the end of the season, I think they're going to be ahead by a significant. enough margin that they're going to feel like the best team in basketball. And their offenses can be overwhelming defensively. They've kind of quietly started to pick it up. They've been a top 10 defense over the past few weeks. And maybe most importantly, Jamal Murray is starting to look like Jamal Murray for more sustained stretches.

Like he's still not above having the occasional stinker and a game just where he's not moving very well and not very aggressive. But you catch him on the right nights and there are more and more right nights these days. And the nuggets just look really formidable. in a way that some, even some of these other really high-level teams do not. Obviously, I agree with all the things he said about Denver's offense, specifically, because coming into the season, to my mind, they were the best unit in the NBA

and the most unstoppable, meaning they could be themselves against anybody. There's no matchup that they're going to encounter in the playoffs, or obviously not the regular season where it's like, oh, they do this one thing on offense, or they do these two things on offense that are so good. good, but this team is uniquely situated to stop them at it. That's not going to be the case in ways that I don't know that that's true about Boston, right? Like, I could see their offense getting stuck in the mud against the right matchups come playoff time, where I don't see that with Denver.

Now, as far as who do I think is going to ultimately end up being the best team, I still think it's the Celtics, although with a small caveat, I think they have to see. see themselves succeed against the Warriors at some point. Whether it, like, obviously that will be true if they play them in the finals. Like, they can't win the finals four times without having that, um, that, um, happen. But like, they have to see themselves play their game the way they want to play it and win against Golden State. Because it felt like there was just some demons that they were chasing in that, in that

matchup, um, that I think they have to overcome at some point here. Of course, if they do it in the finals, they'll win. But they have to, something's got to give with whatever's happening with them in Golden State. I think they really thought, there's something about having something taken away from you, where they really thought they was about to win that championship. And then just like that, it was done, you know, and they're losing in six games. So I think they just have so much talent. and it does fit nicely together,

and they have depth at positions that are of, you know, import. And so, yeah, I think the Celtics are going to still end up being the best team, man. And it reminds me of like the team version of what LeBron was facing back in the days, right, in the Eastern Conference. It's like, oh, you join this team, and then you choke in the finals, and it's like, are you ever going to be a really good postseason player? And then, you know, he did some things against Boston when it really mattered. And it was like, oh, yeah, I just watched myself perform these tasks.

I can do this all the time. And he's just been doing it since, you know, especially in big playoff moments. So, yeah, I think the Celtics will ultimately be the best team in NBA. Yeah, I think the Celtics can steamroll pretty much every team in the NBA, except for the Warriors and maybe the Orlando Magic. and I will take those odds going forward. Like they're definitely the best bet. And the one sore spot, I guess you could identify about the Celtics throughout this first, what, two and a half months, basically, is the defense hasn't been top tier elite with the bullet.

Their seventh as of this recording. Robert Williams has barely played. I think he's played four games. He's playing on a minute restriction off and off the bench. I think he played 14 minutes in that game against the box. Like once he gets up to the. level we're expecting to be. I mean, that was the guy who probably not the best player in the finals, but certainly one who's probably making the most impact on the outcomes of some of those games,

especially earlier in the playoffs. So I can only see them getting better, not worse, and that's a scary proposition. And like, maybe when it comes down to it, they won't even have to face the Warriors, because it seems like the biggest issue for the Warriors is actually getting up for most of the games on the schedule, not the Boston Celtics. So, yeah, I would pick the Celtics. I get the argument for the Nuggets. They've looked really good. Murray's been playing better. Unfortunately, unless in this future that Rob is envisioning,

I think teams still have to play defense. And so I worry that the Nuggets might not be there on both sides of the ball. I think that's very possible. I will say one weird Nuggets thing that I have not been able to wrap my arms around yet, but has been there in the data all season, is their starters with Michael Porter Jr. play really good defense. and their starters with Bruce Brown, who I would say by reputation

is a significantly better defender than Michael Porter Jr. Has not. And I think there's something in those numbers that's probably a little goofy. And I think there's something in those numbers that's probably really indicative of how much length is helping them.

And they're a team that I think probably as much as anyone could really benefit from a subtle in-season trade in which they get like one more long-wing guy to plug some of these holes in their rotation because they just, they seem a little small on the perimeter sometimes

in ways that I think could be solvable and could be fixable and could shore up some of what they're missing defensively. But I do like the overall trend in their defense. I do think they're going to be better than they've been. I agree that Boston has been a little wobbly lately, not just in defense, but in offense too. I think that's kind of my one nitpick with the Celtics.

Again, we're talking about the team that has been hands down the best in basketball to date. Yeah. Do you trust that level of shooting? Like, do you trust Derek White to be like a 40% shooter? And it's just like cascading effects with him with Marcus Smart. Even with guys like Al Horford hitting shots at the exact right times in these huge moments. Like, they're a team that almost needs to be as deep as they are.

Because if enough of those guys aren't hitting at the exact wrong time, I think we could see them slide a little bit on that side of things. I keep coming back to the fact of Boston, it's like, what changed from last season for them? And some of it is some of their guys maturing. some of it is getting Malcolm Brogden. They look so much better offensively. But my inability, and maybe this is my failings as an analyst, my inability to understand why and how that is happening

makes me a little bit inherently suspicious of it in the biggest possible games. The thing about Denver, just to learn credence to where Rob is saying, obviously where you will line up in your conference matters, and I'm sorry, but there's just not a team, save for Golden State, who's got a lot of issues right now, who I feel like, oh, yeah, in a playoff series,

they're going to beat Denver for sure. Not a single team out West makes me feel that way at all. And so, yeah, give me... Not a single team? Outside of the Warriors? No. I mean, I think Memphis, I think the Clippers could give the Nuggets the series. I'm not even saying that the Nuggets would automatically lose those,

but I think those would be good matches. The Clippers, you sure about the Clippers? Well, of Kauai's around, which, you know, is a 50-50 proposition. even these days. But I think the West, there's a lot of teams who could give so-and-so trouble. But it's like, are you really betting on the right health for that team, that they're going to be in the right spaces? Like, all of those teams have catches to them.

So let's put it like this, because I think this will come up at some point later, too. The Sixers, right? By record, by point differential, by whatever. If they play Milwaukee in the playoffs, I have no doubt in my mind that the Bucks are going to beat. them. Like, it's not that Vegas might necessarily agree with me. It's not that there will be dated to support this prior to the matchup, but there's just no confidence in what they're going to do against Milwaukee in a playoff setting, right? And I basically feel that way about the

Sixers, I mean, about the Celtics as well. I think the Celtics are housed these kids in the playoffs. But, you know, their record would indicate that they're not that far off. They're playing way better. Joel is playing some of the best ball of his life. There's no reason to feel like that. But like if, like, if I line those two teams up and first team the four wins, I just, I just can't see it for Philly, right? And that's how I feel about teams like the clippers and the pelicans and even Memphis, right? Well, actually, I like way more this year than I have in the past.

I think it's because they're older now. And they've been, you know, sort of snake-bitten and have experienced some things. But even Memphis, I'm like, man, I think Denver will whoop y'all last. as much as I like you guys. I really do. I think Memphis is probably one key player away. And while Dylan Brooks seems to be very active in all of these important matchups, I don't know if it's necessarily always in the best possible way.

And he would be the natural upgrades. I mean, Bain is still supposed to be coming back soon and we'll see him and whether or not he can continue this giant leap that he would have been making earlier in the season. But no, I tend to, I think we're all on the same page there, where the Nuggets, even in a crowded West where it seems like everybody is like a game or two apart, the Nuggets, seem to be separating themselves, even from like a pelicans or a grizzlies just because of the institutional knowledge is because they've been in high-stakes situations.

They've been in the Western Conference finals. Can we get back to the Celtics just quickly before we turn to the next thing? Rob, please. So your contention is because they're so deep, you don't believe in them? No, no, no, no, no. My contention is I think the shooting at the outset of the season was so high. I see. So unreasonably high that it led to some crazy numbers that are anchoring their performance.

But like, you zoom in over the last two weeks. weeks, for example. And a lot of those guys, they were shooting like 48% or now shooting like 30%. And it's not a coincidence that over that same stretch, the Celtics are like the 26th or 27th ranked offense in the NBA. That's all I'm saying. And that's not just role players, too. Some of that is like Jalen Brown coming back to Earth a little bit. And so I think they are in, they are due and they are in for some statistical regression that's going to like met them out as a very good, but not record breaking offense ultimately. So you don't believe in the power of Hauser is what you're saying.

I do not. I think there's just so many of them that even if some regress, I think it's like mathematically improbable that all of them regressed totally. And like there are so many good shooters that probably were shooting above their head that will ultimately settle into like a good, not elite JJ Redick with his hair on file style. So the only thing that I will disagree with Rob on is save for Marcus Smart last year when they looked their best on offense, it was from great shooting that didn't always travel,

right? Like, it didn't always appear when they needed it. But, like, when they looked their best, it was because guys were making shots and it was coming from good offense. You know, it wasn't just Marcus Smart, you know, whenever he decided he would do his Steph Curry imitation and, and pull up from 27 feet off of the dribble. Save for his bad threes and God knows, knows he has a pension to go clear out, guys. I'm going to be an elite guard right now. Most of their stuff was coming from within their offense, and it's, you know, catch and shoot, spot up type of stuff

from guys who, you know, are competent NBA shooters. So I think as long as the offense is producing these shots, not pull-ups, strictly Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown pull-up threes, or fade-away threes and all of that kind of stuff, I'm pretty confident in what they can do. The process is unquestionably good. Like you watch the Celtics. It looks like good basketball even when they're not hitting.

There's no doubt about that. They've been great. So while we're on the topic of the Celtics and also kind of the nuggets here, why don't we flip to MVP? Who is the MVP as of right now, wise? Nicolio, no, I'm just kidding. It's Janice. It's Janice.

It's Janice. For me, but I don't think that Janus is the clear-cut MVP at this point. I think there's a lot of guys. playing at an incredibly high level, close to MVP. But for me, Janice is still that guy, as I've said from the beginning of the season, because of his two-way ability. But there are guys nipping at his heels, man.

Of course there's Yokic. Of course, there's Luca. Of course, all the guys were going to mention. But Embed, who Rob gave love to, who I'm not going to lie, you kind of made me be like, all right, and I guess I should start really thinking about this guy. We're doing it. We're winning hearts and minds over here. Okay, all right.

Rob's not completely crazy for suggesting this. And those guys, yeah, and those guys are really close, but I still like Janus because, again, he's doing it on both ends. I'm right there with you as far as Janus. I mean, this is not Janus's best season by a long shot, but even in his not best season, he's 31, 11, and 5 and playing great defense for a contender. And that's good enough for me, frankly.

Like, he's the best player. He's playing for one of the best teams in basketball and carrying and leading them. And personally, I find that easier to trust as far as projecting MVP than some of the other variables on the board. So we're not worried that the Bucks started 9 and 0 and have been 13 and 11 sins. No. I think they're going to be plenty good enough. It's a long season. At least in terms of who I think is the MVP right now, who is the best player.

Do I think Janus will win MVP? No, I do not. Yeah. He's definitely on the short list, as you mentioned. And I might even put him third, but I have Jason Tatum first right now. You would. 31, 8 and 4, shooting more threes than Luca Donchich, but the same percentage, which is wild to say in a sentence that anyone in the league is shooting more threes than Luca, let alone Jason Tatum. And their offense becomes absolutely unstoppable when he has played 120 offensive rating, which would be historic.

and they are better on defense with Tatum on the floor of the Celtics are. So that is kind of how I made my differentiation. Also, best record, as we mentioned. Best team, best player is basically what I went by just for the here and now. But Rob, you kind of alluded to it. Who do you see going forward, end of the season, MVP? I think you have stumbled upon it. I think Jason Tatum is going to be MVP.

And for me that I, like, I are on the side of two things. One, a team that we know will win. lots of games. Because if you're lower than sixth, and that's all apologies to Luca in particular, who might end up as like a seventh or eighth seed with the Mavs, you just don't really have a chance at winning MVP if you're lower than a six seed in a conference. So we know the Celtics are going to win a lot of games. We know they're probably going to be one of the top two or three seats, if not the top seat in the east. Second, I think with the MVP, you want to pick a player who has a clearly defined narrative in the first part of the season because media voters, like our friend Justin

here, you know? They get said in their opinions so early, and they spend the rest of the season extending them and justifying them and speaking to them. And I think the fact that, like, the fact that Jason Tatum is first by a long shot in the ESPN straw poll of MVP voters, for example, I think speaks to the fact that this is pretty much where the voting is going to land. Don't you you have a vote? I just met you more as like a member of the media body.

I'm a free thinker, my friend. I've had a vote once and I picked Russell Westbrook, so they didn't let me have that one. So that's what I was going to say about the sort of narrative-driven part of this that I think is interesting. Because I think about the Westbrook and Hardin race when Westbrook won it in 2017, where I don't think anybody in the media thought Westbrook was better than Hardin by that point. But it was just the narrative pull was just so strong. for Westbrook with KD. leaving to join the juggernaut, and he stayed in the prairie with those great, you know,

downhome meat and potatoes people. And he kept his promise, of course, until he requested a trade and, you know, dashed himself out of town, but that's neither here nor there. The narrative pull was so strong for, you know, the stuff that the media likes to, you know, glorify. The thing about Tatum and Luca, because I think they're both going to really chase it

as far as trying to, like, actively trying to get the numbers to get there. I think the media sees Luca Donchus as a better player. So I could see Luca, if he gets his wins in a respectable amount enough place, respectable enough place as far as win total, I could see him getting in there and getting that MVP, right? the whole put the team on his back thing. And again, I think most people think he's better than Jason Tatum. You know, so they're going to want to give it to the better player who put up better stats,

even though he's not on the better team, if you will. So I can see Lucas sneaking in there and ultimately taking this award because it'll have a narrative strain to it, but it will also be backed up by better numbers from a guy who's better. Yeah, Luca's statistical profile is typically more. more well-rounded than someone like Tatum, who is more of a score. And then it's the same thing with Yokic. It's funny how high-minded we all are. And yet we all love pointing to like the triple-double stats that Yokic is putting up and Luca. And it's just funny when it's a different player. And it's not Westbrook. All of a sudden, it's much more statistically significant. But having said that,

I agree with you, was I think if Luca gets the Mabbs high enough in the standings, I think he'll have more of a chance. I just don't see that ever happening. Rob, I don't know if the, the denizens of Texas are are really tipping their cowboy hats to Luca these days. I also wonder like, is the heliocentric thing in his benefit because he's doing so much?

Or are people just so sick of that style of play and it's such a slog that maybe it might actually undercut him? First, I want to circle back to this side swipe at Yokic triple doubles vis-a-vis Russell Westbro. It's not high-minded. Yeah. Right. You know, not very high-minded. I'll agree like we're going to

pretty rudimentary stuff, but like it feels a little different when you're shooting like 64% from the field. That's what like it's a different vibe. All of the all of the pocket pretender dork shit that anybody would want. Yokic has all of that. All of it. No, I'm aware. The efficiency stuff.

Tush. He has all of that. And there was just a naked ambition to what Russ was doing that year. That was just nasty. You know, Yolkitch isn't stealing rebounds from Stephen Adams, okay? He's not stealing rebounds from his own teammates and forcing the assists. And like, this stuff is coming within the flow.

It feels organic. Nothing about what Russ was doing felt organic at all. So I don't know why we got to paint my man with that nasty brush. We got to put a scarlet letter on him because he's getting triple doubles. This conversation is coming, though. You could feel it even after we had that podcast. Like the Yokic train is running. He's really good.

You could already see the blowback coming from people being like, oh, he should win a third straight. And it shouldn't matter if it's his third straight, yada, yada. And then the other side of it being like, no, he shouldn't rational people like me being like because that is statistically significant or historically significant. So let me say this. Let me ask you this, Justin, because you are on this anti-yokin should win it. Because I think your argument.

There? Can I pause? Yeah. The one regret I have is making this anti-yokic. I do think it's more the case against anybody winning three in a row before you won on the biggest stage rather than like Yokic doing it. Let me ask you a question. This is the perspective of a man who looked around, saw the people who were agreeing with

him about being anti-yokic. It was like, wait a minute. Do I want to be in this corner? They're all eggs. Yeah. So I want to ask you this because I think this speaks to your unease. about Yokish winning this award. Do you think there is a world in which

Nicola Yokic finishes career and is like one of the 15 best players that ever played basketball? I would have to do the list, but let's say sure. I do too. I think it's very possible, if not outright, probable. And so therefore, a guy that's that historically great, I don't have a problem with winning three MVP.

he's he's up there with with the greats to me he's up there with the he's going to be up there with the he's going to be up there with the duncans he's going to be up there with all of those guys as far as big men are concerned and so i don't i don't really have a problem with it yeah i think he might but let's let's see him make a finals first okay okay fair enough fair enough it's also three straight too it's not just three three straight is is wild to me yeah the important thing is I think there are enough people who share that perspective that I would find it pretty unlikely that he actually wins. And that's kind of how I get to Tatum is you go down the list of all the possible MVP candidates, you know, yoke at you of the voter fatigue thing. Indeed, I'm on this podcast

begging people to even think about. That shows you where he is in this race right now. Luca Donchich, I think, because of the combination of the complexities of the heliocentric debate, plus the fact that the MAVs just might not have a good enough record, I think is going to get disqualified. Steph, I don't think the game's played is going to be where some voters need it to be. And so then you're getting into like Janus or Tatum are basically the two guys who have like clearer cases for MVP.

And I think Tatum is going to consistently be higher on people's ballots relative to Janus. And you know what I think too? And we say narrative all the time and just assume everybody understands what that means. It's about a story that we're telling ourselves. And oftentimes, we feel like we're telling this story about ourselves, right? And so Tatum's story, if you're

an MVP voter, it's going to feel so satisfying because of the journey he's gone through, right? Like this sort of prodigy when he comes in, young, killing in the playoffs, then, you know, they have the lows where it's like, do they need to break up the two wings and all of this stuff and then they go to the finals and then, you know, they have that heartbreak and then they come back and they have this great season and Tatum is finally this dominant player. There's something satisfying

about that story and pulling the lever on it. And, you know, I don't want to compare this guy to the first black president of the United States of America, but I do remember the self-satisfying feeling as a black man when it was like, oh, I get to pull the lever

on Barack Obama. Like, there's something about that story. I'm telling myself, I'm part of it. You know what I mean? Like, you get swept up in the narrative of what's going on around you. And I think Tatum is definitely going to have that. His story has that narrative arc. You know what I mean?

Where he's finally getting this MVP, after all of these things we've seen him do and accomplish it and go through in the league, you know? Yes, we can. What's going to say? Why is he going to start selling Hope posters with Jason Taylor? I'm in there. Sometimes you just have to step back and admire the artistry of a taking progress, you know? That's true.

I actually don't even mind, like, factoring in the narrative as long as the statistical argument is there. Like, last year, for instance, it was really eye of the beholder, Janus and B. Yokic all had very credible cases. But if you wanted to vote for Yokic because you thought, like, he was better with what he had around him, I can believe that. And, like, if Westbrook had probably more efficiency and won more games, like, I I think he would have had a more credible case when we ultimately gave it to him.

But since we're talking about Embed, why don't we flip to our next question, which is, who is the most intriguing disgruntled superstar? I almost won with who is the least intriguing disgruntled superstar just because all of these tend to induce a lot of groans when we talk about it, especially lately because it seems like there's been a lot of burbling in the disgruntled star market. I think like two weeks ago we were like, who could it be? Bradley Beal. And then all of a sudden, shams just licked his chops and went to work.

And here we are. Woge 2, by the way. What a Christmas Day performance from that guy. Triple double on just licking some boots. All right. So, So, Watts, who do you think right now is the most intriguing disgruntled superstar? Hardin, here are a couple I have with it down here. Hardin, Trey Young, Zach Levine, LeBron, James.

Is someone from that list or someone else? I think that seems like the list. And to me, the most intriguing is Zach Levine. for two reasons. One, I think, and we've talked about Levine a bunch. We've even traded him a bunch of times on this show. I feel like we've been trading him

basically since I got hired by the ringer, it feels like. But I don't think his team is all that enamored of him. That's why I find him to be intriguing. He seems eminently movable because they didn't want to give him that deal in the first place, right? If you guys remember the Olympics where he's just like, I just want my respect.

That's all I have won't out of a deal. I want respect. I want this. And the Bulls put out all this stuff. Like, we don't know if this guy's a franchise kind of guy. Like, we don't, you know, there was, they had to basically be dragged to the altar with this guy. You know, talk about second guessing your decision. Like, these guys had cold feet from the beginning.

You know, it's a miracle that they showed up with that deal. And so he's the most intriguing because I think pretty much he makes every single. single contender better. I don't care how you slice it. Like, you put him on any team that has championship aspirations, he's better. And, you know, I think the question then becomes, what does he do for the New Orleans is and the Memphis is of the world, right? That don't feel like their core as far as what they're going to chase the championship

with is settled. And so that's why I'm intrigued by him. LeBron can't even be dealt this year, so we got to wait till the offseason to start really be intrigued. Trey Young, while I think he's a way better player than Ben Simmons, I think he has a similar issue in that so many considerations need to be made when you trade for him. Because he's only played this certain type of way his entire career, and you wonder who's going to be able to accommodate that, right, in a trade. But yeah, for me, Zach Levine, man. I could play him at two or three. He's going to shoot the hell out of it.

He's going to give me all-b-wall stuff. He's paid quite handsomely. But, man, I think the world is Zach Levine. I also think the world of him is a player. And he's kind of triply intriguing because he's very talented for all the reasons you just laid out was. He has a pretty extensive injury history

that makes him very hard to price out in a trade market. And three, the reporting of late has basically been indicating that like the bowls are having team meetings to talk about how bad he's been on defense. So when that's the state of affairs, I think it automatically grandfathers you into this

intriguing and disgruntled conversation. But I do want to give LeBron his due here because he had a monster game on Christmas. 38 points on 23 shots. Five assists, six rebounds. No other starter in that game for the Lakers scored double figures. The Mavs

outscored the Lakers 51 to 21 in the the third quarter. Sorry, is it 51.31. It's got, it's got to be third. Look, they got destroyed and they gave up 51 points in the third quarter. I don't want to, I don't want to overstate it. But most importantly, in the post-game press conference, Dan Wojke gave LeBron basically

a chance to defend the resilience of this team. And like, you know, you guys started slow in various capacities. You've dug your way out here and there. Like, where is your level of confidence in this team writing itself again with dealing with Anthony Davis's injury. And I want to read LeBron's quote to you guys because I thought it was exceptional, which is I think I look at it that way.

I look at it the other way too. Like how many times are you going to dig yourselves out until there's too much dirt on you? And it was a classic, look, all of us who have been around the NBA for a period of time know the I'm sick of this shit moment from LeBron. It is a genre unto itself. And this one was one of my absolute favorites in that genre.

Yeah, I think, he had to take note of the stories that came out of that game, partly probably prompted by his quotes and how direct they were, but also just the machine kicked into gear where it's like LeBron needs more help. How are we going to, why are we sacrificing this greatness? Like, when's Rob going to get off his ass and do something? On the one hand, it's warranted, but like, this is the blueprint in action here. And honestly, on the holidays, it warms the heart to see this back in action yet again. You know, it's been a little while

since he's gone to this playbook, and it's great to see LeBron starting to leverage. Yeah, leverage at his absolute prime. Leverage like a Hall of Famer yet again. The thing that is intriguing as well, and I don't think it gets said enough, the Lakers thing was going great.

It was going great. They traded for AD, won the championship. they started like 21 and 7, which is like they came out like gangbusters the year after. Pretty much everybody thought they were going to win the championship again. Guys started getting hurt. AD gets hurt against Phoenix. And I don't care what Phoenix fans say,

they were going to lose that series if AD didn't get hurt. And Jay-Z once said, it's funny how one verse could fuck up the game. It's funny how one trade could fuck up the game. They gave up all. their wing depth in one summer for the privilege of bringing in Russell Westbrook, and nothing's been the same sense. Shout to Jersey Drake.

Like, it's crazy, you know, as great as things were going up until that 21 and 7 moment in year two or year three, but the year after the championship, they've been that horrible since. So it'll be interesting to see how they want to play this in the offseason when they got all their cap room and, you know, LeBron is on some mini extension and there's all these things in the air. Just to set my own record straight, that was 51 to 21 in the third quarter, which sounded impossible as I was saying it, but it was not impossible.

It did happen. Yeah. I mean, the sad thing is the Lakers aren't awful. You know, they really have righted the ship to an extent. It's just, again, the hole is so deep. And yet, they're still within striking distance of the play in. Like, you'd assume the Warriors would be better, but like the Timberwolves are falling apart. We'll probably get to them a little bit later.

Like some of these other teams, the Jazz, you could see them sliding below that line. So there's still within striking distance, and there's still something to be had here. It's just like, man, I don't know what the hell Polinka is doing in terms of just being proactive about this. They need one or two more good players on this team. And even with the AD injury, I think they could be right in the mix of the play-in. But I will say the person that intrigues me the most is one James Harden.

Because you guys know that I love a cluster fuck. And the idea of a story dropping before the Christmas Day games suggesting that this dude would be open to returning to the team that he forced his way out of, what, two years ago? after forcing his way to a second team in between there, instead of resigning with Joelle and Bede and trying to win titles is like my mind,

like it hurts my head just to say all of these things out loud. And yet I can't wait to find out what is happening. Even if it is all just like trying to get James Hardin as much money as possible for as long as possible on his next contract, that's probably what is happening here. I fucking love this. I love the possibility that he could do that. I love that it makes zero fucking sense.

And I love the idea that we're going to talk about us right now in order to parse this out. I think the significant and important part of Woja's reporting on this was the phrasing, if he decides against a new deal with the Sixers, which to me suggests exactly what you're saying, Justin, which is this is like a nice little shot across the bow of Philly and saying like, look, if you don't come correct with an offer this time, this is what might happen.

On Christmas. On Christmas. As if it would behoove the rockets in any way to do this, to participate in this. And once again, it kind of like uses Silman Furtata as like the middleman because it sounds like based on follow-up reporting like he would be interested in this because he's getting a little tired of the rebuild that's taking a while there in Houston. And so like he would be open to that to get guys through the door to get fans. back in the arena. But just like it makes zero sense based on where they are and where they'll be in two years even.

Guys, I said this on yesterday's spot. James Harden doesn't make that team better. They're not better. They're not going to be a materially better team because James Hardin is sharing the back court with Jalen Green and Kevin Porter. That's not a thing. He's not going to make Jabari Smith better. I don't think you want your guy.

Not to say that they're playing the most beautiful brand of basketball as it stands now. But do you want your young guys development to be watched James Harden monopolized possessions every single game? Just watch them do that, take his stepbacks, hog the ball, not do anything when they have the ball. Like, you really, like, does that make sense for their own development? And, you know, what I love about this is just like, James Harder not getting. given a damn what this might even say about him as a hooper, that this might be what he would

rather do, that he'd rather go to Houston, get his ass kicked for the rest of his career, but, you know, get paid 200 mil for the pleasure of doing so. You know, I think James Hardin's best definition of his career has been a soaring success. And I think, you know, who could have disagreed with a guy who will have probably earned something like $700 million between Adidas and the end. NBA when it's all said and done. Like, how do you call that a failure? You know?

As disappointing as he's been in the playoffs and, you know, how he hasn't always reached his potential in the most important moments. I think it says everything about James Hardin and how he thinks about himself. It's like, I've done, I've had a great career. I love to go back to Houston where I'm the man, where I love the social scene there. I have, I'm basically so entrenched in that city as to be damn near a deity. Yeah, I love to do. that and do nothing else. I don't need this accountability you guys are trying to hand me in

New York City. I don't need your accountability in Philadelphia. I don't need any of that crap. Get me back to Houston where everybody kissed my ass, patted me on the ass, and told me I was great every day no matter what I did. And so, yeah, I can see why he wants to sign up for that. The funniest thing about this report, too, is like the Sixers are playing very well. James Hardin is playing very well. He is leading the league right now in points generated by assist. And the Sixers have won eight games at time of recording. They may have won nine by the time you hear this. If all goes according to plan against the Wizards, just exceptionally strange and yet classic NBA stuff for a report like this to come out on Christmas. Yeah. So we'll keep track of

that one. So what about who will be the most intriguing disgruntled superstar by season son? I feel like that's a Trey Young award to me. You know, that that might be his music. And some of that is in the sense of, like, I do think the hawks are trending in the right direction. I do think they're going to get better and better as they have more of their guys consistently in the lineup. And yet, with trade, all comes down to like how good is good enough for him in terms of how that team is performing in terms of the feel and the overall vibe of the group. Like, what will be satisfying to him because there's been enough reporting around

Trey kind of pointing in this direction. And even weirder, the betting odds around his next team are so mystified. to me. Like the Dallas Mavericks are consistently at the top of that list in a way that, and this is, this is across betting sites. This is across, like across lines in general. And I'm so weirded out of the consistency of that that I'm like, what am I missing about this? I think Trey will end up being the most intriguing because he's the youngest guy on his list, right? And so teams can definitely talk themselves into being like, this is a young franchise level player.

And, you know, this is a great thing to do. What I would caution against this, man, is because I think about Dane Lillard, right? And all the things that he did and the kind of player that he was, that he's been for Portland since he got there. And they never did a DeJante Murray trade. Like, they never, ever, ever, ever did any of this during the Olshe regime. They did the most ridiculous, conservative, stupidest stuff that you could imagine that entire time. And, like, he already got a blow up that was basically geared towards fixing the things that he's not good at.

Like, these guys are addressing your iniquities directly head on and giving up real stuff. and value to do so, and he's disgruntled. So I would tell teams in the offseason, like, golly, bro, like, this the dude y'all want to bring in? I don't understand that logic, you know, a dude who just has his ass kissed, his entire career and basically told that he's, you know, the second coming, if not John the Baptist. And all he does is piss and moan about it.

I don't know how you would do that, but NBA teams are going to talk themselves into this dude. he's also the toughest fit of any of these like you really need to fit him into yeah you need to build your team around him in the way that the hawks have done almost specifically um yeah tray tray's a weird one i'm keeping my eye on towns for reasons that we've discussed in the past and maybe we could flip to our next question on that note if only because uh i have the timber wolves pretty featured prominently in our next segment which is which is the team in serious trouble.

So which is the team that not only is struggling right now, but it could struggle for out the course of the season. So I have the wolves at the top of my list in addition to some other ones. But I'm curious, Rob, who do you have? So this is a team that I think is like struggling and in trouble in the immediate sense, but one that could potentially get its way out. And that's the Toronto Raptors. And a lot of that has to do with the fact that like the way their team is constructed now,

I don't think works. And we've seen a lot of evidence of that over the course this season. And there's just so many things that are off at once between the stability of the defense, the lack of shooting on that team, the precarious creative balance in terms of trying to balance all of these creative forwards and outlets at once and trying to satisfy all of these different guys.

It's not really working. And if this is what the blueprint is for this season, that's not a team I see accomplishing much of anything and maybe only going downward from here, which only kind of makes them more interesting as a potential trade team because they're competitive enough that they could swing in either direction, but they're not so competitive that they're actually winning all that many games right now. Yeah, I think the Raptors absolutely, it's one of those teams that you always want to

keep your eye on. It's just they're like freaking Jason. They just refuse to die ever. And so it's hard for me to ever pick them myself. I got to sort of see this thing fail miserably over a prolonged period of time to believe that it's going to sustain because it just hasn't. Like they usually find a way to just be respectable again. But that's why I'm just like the Bulls who don't have this long recent history of competence, right? They surprised the hell out of us last year. And as we mentioned with Zach Levine and his teammates, they're just like, yo, we're already sick of this, right?

And they've already made their DeMar de Rosen move. their Vucovich move. What else are they really supposed to do besides admit defeat and failure and move on from this thing? And so that's why I think they're dangerously close because their guys aren't the ages of Trey Young, right? These aren't young pups. These guys are veterans.

DeMars a veteran. You know, even Zach Levine is a veteran. And so those are guys that we could see them just saying, wipe their hands and, yo, let's move on. Let's do something else. Vucci, man, go be. a mediocre center somewhere else. Like they got to do this some other ways.

So I feel like the bulls are teetering on the edge of, all right, it's time to just pack this thing up. Yeah. And if they're teetering, Zach Levine will willingly push them over, if possible. My favorite part of the reporting that came out about Zach was that he wasn't mad at DeMar de Rosen, but he is mad at the people who are orchestrating the partnership between them. So he thinks that there's something wrong with the coaching staff.

definitely not my friend Demar. Like, we're on the best of turns. It's all you guys who are screwing this up. That was a rare threading of the needle that I really appreciated. So I had the Timberwolves on mine, but I also had the heat as a team that is struggling in the here and now. They're 17 and 17 as of this recording, and we're recording this Tuesday afternoon. They'd just beaten the Timberwolves.

So I guess they won the Ship Bowl there. So there's something to put in. their cap. But they won recently five of the past seven against an incredibly soft schedule. And while that's a reason for optimism, the schedule gets pretty difficult over the next month. They have two against the bucks, two against the pelicans. And I could just see this going the wrong way. And for a team like the heat that's so veteran laden, I think a bad or even a mediocre year, where you're in the play in and you're struggling, probably affects it seem like that more than some of these other teams were mentioned

to have a bit more of a runway. And so I really just don't know what to make of them. I think like we kind of just penciled them in as a top six seed going into the season just because of institutional knowledge and they always find these guys, the backload,

some of the rotation players. It's just not all coming together here and I don't see any clear answers. The offense is just so brutal too. Like, gradingly brutal to watch. I can't imagine it's a particularly fun way to play. Even though they're trying to be democratic,

they're trying to keep the ball moving, but there's just enough places where it keeps catching, whether it's with like the wrong guy who can't shoot in the wrong space on the floor or with the way other teams are guarding them. They have a lot to figure out. And I think it goes much deeper than like a couple spots in the rotation they could shore up via trade or something like that or even like a breakout candidate somewhere on the team that we're not expecting.

Their problems seem a little bit more deeper cut than that, which is why it's a problem. I just, any team with Jimmy Butler on it, I implicitly trust to perform in games that matter. And so, like, if they can just limp over that finish line, I still think that they're going to give a team a tough series. I don't think they're going to go super far in the playoffs, but they have enough guys to at least be competitive over seven games.

The question is, are they going to get a chance to do that is a valid question? Is Jimmy still on this team? I really can't tell these days. He's just 12 games. You know, he's around. Yeah, well, maybe he'll play. I think, I believe in a team with Jimmy Butler. I just like, I don't know, man.

It's becoming pretty dice with all his games missed the past two seasons. All right. Who will be in trouble? I'm going to start us off here because we're, again, we're recording this before Tuesday's night's slate. I'm a little bit worried about the Kings because DeMontasabonis, as of this recording, might have a fracture in his thumb, which would be huge, not only because he's been playing outstanding basketball of light, but the guys who will be coming into replace him in the rotation.

are hardly up to the caliber, let's say, that the kings need in order to survive. I'm already a little wary of them just because they're a type of team that can wax and wane depending on some of the defensive output or just like the fact, like if they don't score 150 points a game, like you're already kind of on a razor's edge there of a margin. I could see this getting very bad very quickly if he isn't able to play for even like a small stretch, even for like two weeks. I think this could get pretty ugly. Yeah, y'all know I'm not the vice president of the DeMontes Sabonis fan club.

However, the King's offensive identity is so rooted in the things that he does. His screening, his freaking passing, just his initiation or offense, so much of the stuff that he's doing on the elbows is what the King's offense is. And they're doing a lot of other really cool shit off the ball where they're basically using Kevin Herder as a Reggie Miller, Ray Allen, of imitation, like the stuff he's doing running off of screens, he's not shot and shoot it from like 30 these days. He just wasn't being used this way in Atlanta.

His on-ball stuff has always been pretty impressive to me as a guy with size. Like he's doing a lot. And then of course, Deerrin Fox, like a lot of this stuff he's doing is playing off of a bonus, man. Some of the stuff where he's getting this like full head of steam and taking handoffs from them and getting stuff going to the basket. Like, their two-man game has been incredible to watch. So, like, whilst the bonus isn't exactly, you know,

some incredible, unstoppable force, he's central to what they do. So it's going to be tough to replace his productivity over there. But to me, the team that's going to end up looking like the biggest disaster relative to what was expected of them is the Phoenix Suns. The Booker injury, the Chris Paul being old is dirt. of, you know, the acrimony involving D'Andre Aiton, like, that stuff, man, you know, people putting fingers in people's chests and all of that on the sidelines. That stuff, I don't think it's going to just correct itself.

You know, they don't have, for instance, with Golden State, who we've mentioned a number of times, but like the thing about Draymond and all the dumb shit and stupid shit that he's fucking up at, They want four championships with this dude. Right? So there's just a level of patience and a level of, all right, we can stick to this with this guy that he's earned in championship equity that does not exist with Aiton,

who people were just going to look at as a petulant child who'd rather be playing call a duty anyway, right? And so I think by the time it's all said and done, the Phoenix thing will have imploded pretty damn badly. I just don't like the way that's looking right now. You really have to worry about the scar tissue that's building up over this kind of stretch for the Sunts. And it's a team that like once things start going wrong over the course of a playoff run, are all of these kind of old wounds, will they be reopened, all of these pain points from these tough stretches of the season,

will they come back out to haunt them again? Those are the kinds of things you have to worry about for a team that has not shown like a tremendous ability to stick together in like real. moments of tension. You know, so it's like, I do think like as a, as a mechanical basketball piece, I trust a lot of what they do in terms of the headspace and the coordination and the chemistry of those pieces. I think that's where that gets a little tentative. And was for everything you said about like how the warriors are trusting Draymond, I'm actually

kind of on the other side of his situation in Golden State, not in the sense that that team doesn't trust him. I think he's earned back some of that trust. I think they've actually gotten to a pretty good place as far as like the way that team is operating in terms of the coordination of the pieces. But the Warriors are my team that I'm honestly really concerned about in this conversation. And a lot of that has to do with the fact that Draymond has looked really good, looked pretty much like himself. And yet the defense is not very good. And Steph Curry has been out. So like obviously they're going to be off in some

fundamental ways that could, you know, lead to more transition runouts, going the other direction, things like that. But the reality is that at this time last season, the Warriors were the best defense in the NBA. And right now they're below average over the last two weeks. They've been ranked 27th. I'm very concerned about how they're going to perform on that side of the ball because we know when Steph comes back offensively, they're going to be fine. I just don't really trust anything going on the other way right now. And that's even getting a fuller lineup, even getting Wiggins back full time and having him fully integrated and all that. I just, I don't quite trust how they're playing there. Here's a question. Is it where the Jordan Poole only plays well as a starter? I think a lot of

His game is based on confidence. So it doesn't really surprise me when he feels like he's being empowered and he feels like he's being trusted as one of the guys, you know. I'm not surprised by him just playing better when those are the circumstances. So much of what he does is just based on is this guy willing to fire from anywhere at any time during the game and have the confidence to do it. in that Memphis game, you saw it. He's like, yeah, I'm taking my transition threes.

I don't give a damn. As soon as I touch, as soon as I step over half court, I'm a threat to shoot it. That's how he played against Memphis, and he felt like he had that green light to do so. And, you know, I wish that he would just play like that regardless of the role. But it seems obvious that he needs this confidence to be his full self. Yeah, it's just weird that he does so well in Steph's shoes playing, surrounded by that starting lineup

but as soon as he has to play off the bench when Steph's there it's just like all of his super powers just go with. They don't want to have to use their brains. Yeah. You know, discernment. Like, all right, this is the time I should go Jordan Poo mode.

This is the time we should recognize that we play with Steph Curry. Like, you know, this, people don't want to have to do that. They just want to be. And when Steph's not out there, he can just be. Is that you on this podcast?

No, absolutely not. I'm a Kevin Hurt. I'm a plug and play guy, man. You put me with the starters. You put me on the bench. You want me to shoot. You want me to facilitate. You want me to, you know what I mean?

Crash the boards. You want me to guard your best. Positional defender, yeah. I'm everything. Swiss Army. Come on now. There you go. Andre Godaul out here.

All right. Let's go to our last category. To the player who has taken a leap thus far, I have some obvious ones down. and kind of piggybacking off of Waz's Reggie Miller evoking here. I have Tyrese Halliburton, a guy who people who were talking about is the next Reggie Miller coming into this season. I think he's like, he's blown past that like archetype. And he's become something completely different, leading the NBA in assists per game.

And then I have Shay Gilders-Alexander, obviously, third in points per game. There are some obvious ones. Rob, do you have some more deep cut, more interesting ones for us? I think the deeper cut gets into the back half of this, which is the who will be a a breakout candidate who is, who is ready to take even another step forward over what's left of the season. And that's where I get to, like, for some reason, Franz Wagner jumps out on that list to me. Franz. Franz Wagner, not Moe, distinctly not Moe. I mean, I'll do respect to Moe, who's been a nice rotation piece for the magic, but Franz Wagner feels like he's at the point where he's starting to

hurdle over really good players and kind of like the hierarchy of the league. And also, there's a huge matter of catching up in public perception for who is even aware of his existence to how good he really is. He's flat. One of the best wing players in the league. I think we're finally going to get to closer awareness of that as the magic continue to beat good teams, as they continue to climb, as Paolo continues to improve too. But for me, it's him and Jaron Jackson Jr. is another candidate for a guy who could really pop. And it's always going to be the same thing with Jaron, which is can he stay on the floor, both due to injury and due to foul trouble? But when he stayed on the floor this season, he's been up even maybe two levels from where he was previously in terms of

scoring potency in terms of the overall effect of his defense. He could be one of the most effective bigs in the NBA if he can just stay on the floor. So please, Jaron Jackson, please NBA referees. Let Jaron Jackson stay on the floor. Wise, what about you? It's a different grizzlies. It's Bain for me because as great as Jaron Jackson Jr. can be, I think a lot of what will propel the Grizzlies to another level

is if Bain could be just more of a hub on offense and it just doesn't have to be Jha doing everything on the ball, right? And we know the problems with letting Dylan Brooks be Dylan Brooks all day, every day, right? It gets nasty sometimes. And I understand that Dylan Brooks brings a mentality

that is really central to the attitude of how Memphis plays, Like a lot of that is central because of what Dylan Brooks does and how he goes about his business, right? It's why Clay Thompson is taunts in this guy at the end of that game. It's because Dylan Brooks is he's sort of the heart and soul of the team in that way. But the guy who needs to be soaking up possessions offensively, when it's not Jaws, Desmond Bain.

And if he could do that, if he could be a real All-Star 2 guard, you know, I don't know that I definitely don't think he'll ever be as good as, you know, like a Bradley Bill type of guy. But if he can be, you know, a dude that gets as much respect to Zach Levine, say, you know, like, if he could be that type of secondary player for Memphis, the sky's the limit for this team. Because I think where they get bogged down is just, you just ask too much of jaw on offense where he has to be the engine of everything. It's like, not only does he score. against his one-on-one matchup, but when defenses are loading up, it's his expert playmaking

off of his attacks that's creating all the offensive. Bain could do that. Man, sky's the limit. And I could see him doing it. You know, he's become so much more aggressive of a score and even an attacker of the basket where at times

it could feel like he could be so jumpshot heavy. His attacks have gotten more pointed. If he could just keep doing that and leveling that up, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Give me, give me some Desmond Bain, man. Yeah, that's a good one. I have a short list here. I have a little ball who I don't know if he's going to take a leap so much as I think we're just going to be reminded of how damn good he is, 24, 8 and 5 and 10 games since returning from injury. Here's a question to ponder, but maybe not answer until down the road here. Are the hornets at full strength more talented than the Sacramento Kings? I think it's pretty close. Anthony Edwards 24, 7 and 6 in December.

Here's one I don't believe, but I want to mention R.J. Barrett, 23, 6 and 3 in December, shooting 42% from 3. Like, maybe if Julius Randall goes down or something, like maybe there's that guy in there, but I think he's done this pretty much every year where he has like a good month and it's like, Archie Barrett finally putting it together and never does. And then finally, Shengoon, baby, 25, 11 and 6 against the Bulls. start in now on the one hand that the rockets jack so much like I'm sure he could put up stats whenever he wants on the other hand man he just has like two or three plays a game where I'm

like big guy should not move like him so watch out for that oh and I have the Brooklyn Nets nine game winning streak oh boy I was I thought we were going to somehow get out of this podcast without a mini Nets victory lap by very year but here it is I considered just making this pot of all the things I got right over the past year, but I figure that's more of like a three episode installment. I just went on record that three weeks ago, I predicted this bit for you exactly. So while we're getting things right. You know me so well. It is funny that like they just get enough in the rotation, like even a guy like TJ Warren who could who could play that three, four spy, who could shoot a little bit like everything else looks a little bit better. And

Seth Curry isn't even playing right now. So 15 and three best offense since Kyrie. has come back. Apparently, Kyrie's pretty good at basketball. Not great as a person all the time, but, you know, basketball, he still has it down. Yeah. All right, suggestion box time. Let's do it. All right. Remember, suggestion box, GC at gmail.com. Keep sending those in. We love to hear from you. Of course, our today's suggestion box is presented by Chase Freedom Unlimited. Unlimited 1.5% cashback is just the beginning. Earned 5% on travel, purchase through Chase. 3% on dining, including takeout, 3% at drugstores, and 1.5% on everything else. else. How do you cash back? Learn more at chasef freedom.com. Restrictions and limitations apply. Cards are

issued by J.P. Morgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC. Producer Isaiah, can you present today's suggestion box in your crisp clear audio? So today's suggestion box is from Luke S. He loves a show, love my cameo, so that's all good stuff. But his idea was where the fuck did he come from award. So players that came from the woodwork and put in great minutes, his examples were Utah, Antonabe, Sam Houser, Jack Landell, etc. For the benefit of the fine folks at Chase, might we want to bleep that out? True. That's probably right. Just want to throw that out there. So I think we can loop this into our structure here for today's show on the who will be, who is. So Rob, this is effectively the Rob Mahoney.

Honi Award. Do you want to kick us off? Yeah, the people are speaking to me. They're coming to the suggestion box. They're chumming up the waters for me to come in here. Yeah, this is the Rob suggestion box for sure. I just want them to know that I appreciate it. But I want to take this opportunity in terms of a where did this guy come from type award to shout out Josh Green with the Mavs because he's been out with an elbow injury for a little bit now. And I don't think I recognize quite how valuable he was until I was clocking like, man, this is a lot of Theo Pinson minutes without Josh Green in there. And it really made me sit back and meditate on Josh Green, the athlete, Josh Green the defender,

Josh Green, the connector. And like, he's had some wild passes this season in that kind of very strange and sometimes hard to fit archetype of a forward who can sometimes shoot but sometimes can't. But it's just like this kinetic mover and shaker within your offense and really in your transition game. I think he is not a guy I expected the Mavs to miss at all this season in any context. He just hadn't shown that. And so for him to get to that place, I want to salute Josh Green.

Well, I think we do know where he came from because Haralabab talked about it frequently. So, specifically who was around. Yeah, yeah. Well, was Aralabob involved in drafting the guy? I think, I think they picked him over some of the other players who had since gone on to success. And so Josh Green got dinged for that, probably unfairly. Unfairly. But that's a good one.

Um, Was, do you have anybody on your list? So, you know, full transparency, guys. I wanted to go with a different white American here, but I found another way to shoehorn his success this season. So this is also simultaneously Was his white player of the week. Yes, it is. It is. So we found a way to do it.

Yes. My guy is definitely Christian Brown. And it's because I generally don't care about young players. because they stink it up for teams that don't play good basketball for the most part. That's what they're doing. And when they are playing for teams that matter, it's, you know, often to the detriment of those teams that do matter. But every now and again, a young dude who may not necessarily be a rookie like Christian Brown

comes in and gives a team that I'm paying attention to a jolt that they sorely need. right. I'm reminded at Gary Payton last year with the Warriors where his intensity on defense and his defensive versatility, his rebounding from his position, his

transition stuff like that just, it was something that Golden State needed and their team changed in the playoffs. Once he came back from injury, like there was a different energy when he came back. And not to say that Christian Brown is going to have that type of

impact on Denver in the postseason, but watching them against Memphis, where he is just dogging John Morant is all up in his face and he's taking pride in his point of attack defense, which is one of the key deficiencies of this Denver Nuggets team and this dude because he's a white American can make an open jump shot. Come on now. This is precisely what these guys are going to need going into the postseason to guard, to chase step around screens, to perhaps try to stay in front of guys like John Moran, right? And so Christian Brown, man, that's somebody I'm keeping my eye on. All right. Since we're talking about

Golden State killers, I'm going to go with the guy who dropped 31 and 13 on Golden State. And then basically disappeared. Andrew Nemhart, he is the definition of this award because I had never heard of him until this point. Actually, no, I did hear about him because he had a good game just before that. I think it was against the Lakers. So there was like, there were, there were breakthrough performances. He had the, the buzzer beater at Staples, and then all of a sudden has the performance of his lifetime a couple games later, has been a pretty decent role player for the Pacers ever since. But literally, I said to myself, who the fuck is that guy when he scored 31 against the Warriors? And so I feel like he should basically be the, the trophy that they come up with

for this award. being true to our schick, do we want to project any role players forward? Do we want to hope for great things for other undiscovered gems in the NBA right now? Hey, I'll say this about Grimes, man. Their whole thing switched up when they put him in, when they finally let him play in the starting lineup in. For the reasons that, you know, people who are close to the Knicks talked about while they were so obsessed with not letting him go this off-season,

And it's like he's willing to play really hard-nosed defense the way Tibbs is obsessed with. And the kid can make a shot every now and again. And so I got to give him the love because a lot of us did snicker when it was like, oh, my God, this guy's untouchable. And oh, my God, he's still not starting. But as soon as they switched that up, success followed, you know. And that was nice. So I got to give it to my man Quentin Grimes, man.

Yeah, if the Knicks go anywhere, he's going to be really important to them, which is exactly kind of what you want from this category. He's like, who are the guys on good teams that like are going to have a big moment in a playoff series, a crucial stretch of the regular season. I kind of found two other young guys who I think could be candidates. And one of those is producer Isaiah's favorite player, Haywood Highsmith of the Miami Heat. A guy who can, like, a really bothersome defender who unfortunately just like does not know how to play

offense categorically. And I mean that in a, a low touch, sit in the short corner and mind your own business kind of way that's at least minimally destructive. But I could see him having like a Lou Dort level stretch of lockdown defense against Jason Tatum in a playoff series for five minutes and we all overstate how important it is. And David Roddy with the Grizzlies is another guy who, a thick wing, emphasis on thick, who just like other guys bounce off of when he drives to the basket.

And I really enjoy watching him play. And I feel like he's going to have a. big game two of some series or another for Memphis at some point down the line and it's gonna he's gonna help carry an already deep team and again lead us to overstate his value to them but in a way that's gonna be highly enjoyable

which is what we're here for ultimately those are good ones is Austin Reeves has he graduated out of this category I think he's still eligible he might be grandfathered in yeah he's really good like he is a credible rotation player

who hit some threes and will get hit in the face a couple times a game, but it will benefit his team somehow. My thing is he has elite feel for the game. That's what I like about watching him, especially when he's playing with LeBron. Like he understands what he's supposed to be doing out there, which is really cool.

I think he's more of a candidate for the DeAnthony Melton, if you know, you know All-Stars at this point. So he's upgraded in the obscure group chat awards, basically. There's a pecking order. There's the hierarchy to these things. Can't win MIP, but he can win six men. All right, today's suggestion box was presented by Chase Freedom Unlimited. Earned big time with Chase Freedom Unlimited. Earned 5% on travel, purchase through Chase, 3% on dining, including takeout, 3% of drugstores and 1.5% on everything else. How do you cash back, Chase make more of what's yours? Restrictions and limitations apply.

Cards are issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC. All right. is it for us for group chat in the year of our Lord 2022. Guys, any, any New Year's resolutions? Any salutations? Just to salutations to my bros on the show. Justin, Zay, Rob, my man Ben, who's not even on the call. But yeah, man, grateful for you guys. It was another great, fantastic year.

And we're going to do bigger and even better things next year together. So super excited about that. Happy holidays, happy New Year, all that good stuff to everybody. Yeah, less Lakers talk for us and everyone we know and love and care about in 2023. Yeah, we'll see. All right, for everyone here for producer Isaiah on production, thank you, everyone for listening. We will see you next year.