The Ringer NBA Show - Who Said What? NBA Media Day Quotes Edition. Plus, Potential Fred VanVleet Replacements.

Episode Date: September 26, 2025

The NBA is back in just under a month, which means that teams are holding their media days before heading off to training camp. Howard Beck and Raja Bell discuss the most interesting quotes from media days and the new-look Zion Williamson. The Rockets were hit with the unfortunate news that Fred VanVleet will be out for the season after suffering an ACL tear. How important is FVV to the Rockets, and what potential replacements should the team pursue to fill that void? Hit the mailbag! [e-mail] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out rg-help.com to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Howard Beck and Raja Bell Producers: Victoria Valencia and Clifford Augustin Additional Production Support: Ben Cruz (5:32): Fred VanVleet injury (16:12): What's next for Russell Westbrook? (26:28): Kawhi/Clippers Situation (28:27): Media Day Cliches (31:32): Zion Williamson’s new look (35:38): Ishbia and the Suns (41:19): Jayson Tatum media day comments (45:26): Jordan Poole’s media day comments (46:34) Mikal Bridges media day comments Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What up? It's the real ones. I'm Howard Beck, senior writer at The Ringer. And with me today, logging in from Miami, guy who gained 15 pounds of muscle this summer and really worked on his three-point shot and says this is definitely his year. It's Raja Bell. What's up, Raja?

What's up, H. Beck? Good to be back. I mean, you got one of those, right? I definitely gained 15 pounds. I don't know. Body composition-wise, I'd be reluctant to say it's muscle, but it's good to be back. Preseason for me. So like bear with me guys. Look man, it's preseason media days are happening everywhere, which means like the fucking clichés are just flying a mile a minute. Everybody gained 15 pounds of muscle or lost 15 pounds of non muscle. Everybody's three point shot looks great. Everybody's awesome. It's a great time in the NBA. Great to see you again. It's been like I think two months, three months. I don't know how long it's been. It's been a long time since you or I were.

on the Riverside video screens together. Logan Murdoch, not here today, folks, but he will be back in a few more weeks, taking a little family time. He'll be back for the start of the season. And programming note number two, Raj and I will be weekly on Fridays for the next couple of weeks

until we get to right around, like, opening week of the season and when Logan was back. So, Raja, been a while. Summer highlights, like football camps, basketball camps, recruiting trips, I don't know, island getaways. Like, what have I missed? You know, a little of all of that, Howard, let's see.

Let's quick recap. My oldest boy Dia won Elite 11. Awesome. Yeah, it was really, really cool. Had aspired to do that since he was a first time he touched the football as a quarterback. So that was really cool to experience that with him. Awesome. Spent a lot of time on the role with my middle boy.

It's his turn. He got to go to Curry Camp and Pangoes and all of that stuff. He got the character award at Curry Camp, which was a really cool moment because, like, Steph awarded it to him and like, it's really weird. I'm giving one of my teammates sons. You know, it was a pretty weird moment. It was pretty cool to see him on the court with Steph. And that was cool.

Other than that, we did get to an island. We got away and hung out a little bit. And it's just been a whirlwind, man. You know, you probably experienced this. As your daughter got older and time was shrinking, it also then felt like it was going even faster. Yeah. And so that's what we're in right now.

Yeah. No, we just dropped my daughter. her back off the college to start her sophomore year a few weeks ago. And it's like, oh my God. Like, I mean, it was shocking a year ago. And it's still like, it's a little less so each time you do the drop off. But it's still, it's, it's the blur and it's the emotions. And it's like, my daughter's like, dad, you can't, you can't cry when you drop me off now. Like, you've already done this a couple of times. I'm like, I'm going to get emotional every time. Just fucking get used to it. All right? Every single time. Yeah. You know, that's just what it is at this point. So the Curry thing must have been,

not just surreal, but like, is your son like a huge step fan too? Like was there any like, I don't know, star-struckness there going on at all? And like character award is actually a pretty cool thing too, because we think a step is like not just one of the greatest of all time, but one of the all-time good guys. So that's, that's nice. No, I was totally. Yeah, he's definitely a huge step fan. He was a really little guy when I was out there, you know, with Golden State for that amount of time. It was a really small camp, which was really cool. So it was like 15 boys, 15 girls.

My son, Ty, was probably one of the four youngest ones there. They're from all the different circuits. So like you have YBL kids, Adidas Gauntlet. Like, you know, it's just a selection of kids from any particular shoe circuit. But it was really cool because Steph is so hands on at that camp. I mean, he is instructing in every drill. He's making his way around from court to court, station to station. really working. So, you know, it was cool for my son, and I'm sure every other kid there,

that they got real time with Steph. Like, you know, my son's shooting drills and Steph's trainer is putting him through workouts and Steph's rebounding for him or high-fiving him. And then he's hopping in the games with him. So, you know, I thought it was just an awesome experience for every kid that was there, mine especially because, you know, he does know that I have a little background with Steph. And it was cool for all of us, I think, a little bit. But generally speaking, just a great experience for it. Awesome. Love it, man. So two months since we last did this thing on the real ones, the good news is like nothing has happened. Like two months have gone by. Like Dennis Schroeder won a Eurobasket championship. Jonathan Cumminga still is unsigned. Speaking of stuff, like, who knows,

that could happen while we're, while we're recording today for all I know. I'll keep an eye on the iPhone alerts here. but like Cam Thomas took the qualifier from the Nets and Josh Giddy reset, but like nothing, nothing is happening. There was a Patrick Beverly, Trey Young thing. Yeah. Like, saw that.

Yeah. I have not bothered to watch or listen to all. Like I just, I can't bring myself to care. All due respect. Like, Trey Young. It actually kept me going for a few days.

Like it was, I mean, it was so little. It was actually it was something. I was like, oh, look at this. That's all we got. That's the NBA off season.

Up until up until a few days ago, We do a few news items I thought we'd hit. And then we're going to play a little game with some Media Day quotes here. But quick news news hits. Fred Van Bleet, that is significant not to make light of that at all. That is unfortunately the most significant thing that's happened here. Tyler, Hero's got an injury. It's going to keep them out for a bit.

A couple other guys. But the Rockets were supposed to be, and may still be a contender in the West. The debate was simply, who's the bigger challenger to the Thunder? The Rockets or the Nuggets, both had Fenner. fantastic off seasons. And now here we are. Like, you know, Fred Van Bleet, not the best Rockets player by sheer talent, but maybe the most important. And there's no ready made replacement there at the position. It's, it just absolutely sucks Van Bleet out with the ACL. You expect that's going to be the whole season. I don't know, what do you make of this, Roger? Like, Zach Lowe and, uh, and Bill

covered this the other day. Was it on Bill's pod? I think it was on Bill's pod. The idea of like, who they could go out and get, which I'll, I'll get into that in a second. But like your initial reaction, is this a moment where you're already all in because you got Kevin Durant? Do you need to now go further all in to go get a Van Bleak replacement? Do you wait it out because you've got a young core? Is this, are you on Amman Thompson's timeline and shangoon's?

Or are you on KDs? Like, I just think it brings up some real operational issues. Yeah, no, that's fascinating, right? First of all, they're like devastating for them for him for that team. I thought they were positioned obviously really, really well with that combination of like really good young players and talent and legs. And then, you know, you're bringing a piece like KD. But to your point, like the most important thing outside of maybe like, you know, the Kevin Durant of it all is someone that can run it. Like you need a conductor.

You need someone that can really put all those, you know, instruments kind of, you know, into this tune that puts out this beautiful music. and that's going to hurt them. So I, to the question of do you go out, like my immediate would be like, yes. I think that while you are trying to balance being on the younger players timeline, Kevin Durant is, his window is open only for set amount of time. And I think you have to maximize that. Now, I'm not willing to trade. I'm not looking for the type of pieces that require me to trade one of those nice young pieces.

Do you know what I mean? Like, so maybe I'm going to go for, you know, if Fred Van Vleet is a B, you know, maybe I'll take a C or something like that in terms of a grading for a peachy. But I need someone with real experience. Could be long in the tooth maybe. And that's why I get him at a discount. I don't know. But I need someone who can run a show, Howard. Yeah.

And I think that's the difficulty because obviously not only are we here in late September, but, you know, you traded two pretty good pieces in Jalen Green and Dylan Brooks to get KD. So that's a two for one. So that was, you know, two starters or high rotation guys out to bring one 37 year old soon to be 37. Happy early birthday to Kevin Durant, by the way. It turns 37 on Monday. But you don't have a lot of other available pieces left. Now they have a shit ton of draft picks, including still some from Brooklyn, some from Phoenix. Like they've got valuable stuff, Raja, and they've got contracts. When Bill and Zach were kicking this around on Bill's pod the other day, they were, you know, there was flirting with the, Do you go really cold-blooded here and like trade Fred Van Vleet's contract because it's a big number and you need to send out a big number if you're going to get somebody who's more established? Bill's list of like potential replacements, you know, stand-ins were on the more modest side, right? It was like Ayo D'Sunmu, Jose Alvarado, Scotty Pittman Jr. Peyton Pritchard, interesting one, T.J. McConnell. I think that was his list. Zach went for more of like the bigger names.

He was like, what about Austin Reeves? Not saying that the Lakers want to trade Austin Reeves, but hey, what about an Austin Reeves? I think he mentioned Jaden Ivy. Derek White, if you were really going all in. Colin Sexton was an intriguing one that they both talked about because I think he's on an expiring and, you know, market value isn't very high. So maybe you can get him for very little.

But I'm with you. Like, you need someone. And I think if this had happened two, three months ago, go. Maybe they would have been the ones to sign Malcolm Brogden to a training camp contract. He ends up with the Knicks where I assume he's going to stick. I don't know where else you go. Like, could they have made the deal for Lonzo Ball, who the Cavs picked up for not much who'll be great? Like you needed, and I don't know if Lonzo Ball can handle starter minutes at this stage after everything he's gone through physically, but you need somebody, as you said, you need that orchestrator.

You need the guy who's going to calm everybody down and get guys in the right positions, who's a natural leader out there. It's not just filling the spot. There's a role there on that team that was really important in terms of the presence that Fred Van Ville brought. So I don't know, I don't know where they go here. The guy I would love to see plugged in because everywhere he goes, they win a championship and he's exactly what they need. But I don't think it's possible would be Drew Holiday. And I don't know how much Drew's got left. And he's making north of 30, but he's with Portland. Like, aside from him tutoring your young guys and playing out the string, how much does Portland really need Drew Holiday? Like they already, you know, rerouted him once before. So how much, how much,

yeah, I mean, that'd be interesting when you say, you know, the Rockets have all those picks, like, how enticing would that be for a team like Portland, Drew Holiday is the perfect kind of name for that because, like, I want to go back because you said there was a real role to play. This isn't someone that's just filling minutes. And while we touched on the like the physical role, which is like, you know, hey man, we're. coming down and KD's hit a few and, you know, it's my job to get offense, you know, let's get him another one or, or, you know, we haven't got a touch over here for Sengoon. Let's make sure I run something. Like, there's that, there's the that of it, but there's also just this huge

leadership void, if you will. Yeah. You know, Van Vleet meant a lot to them on the court in terms of that. And then, you know, Dylan Brooks, for whatever he is or isn't as a, as a physical player or an antagonist or what have you, like he, he is a leadership type of guy. Like he's a culture type of guy and you lost that too. And so like you very quickly are down to real leaders. And if we're being honest, as great as great as Katie is and we all love him and we've talked about this on the pod. Like that's not usually what you think he's coming in to do. Right. Like to assume that part of it. And so yeah, I think there's a real need for a name like that. I like some of those names better than others. I love Drew. I mean, Drew's like pie in the sky for me. it's probably pie in the sky and like I'm looking up his contract as we're speaking and he's making

like 32 or whatever and going up from there and when you look at the rockets and like movable contracts to try to get to that number like it's almost impossible like you'd have to put Fred Van Bleet in the deal at his $25 million salary just to get even close unless you're combining like Stephen Adams and like you know what's what's Fred Van Fleet Howard what's Fred Van Fleet he's like how many years are on that uh it's 25. this year according to Spot Track and a player option, I believe, for the following season, and that's it. That's also at 25.

I know it's tacky. I know how this is going to sound. I know how that looks. But like time doesn't stop moving. You don't what I mean? And if you have a window of time, like two years, let's say, with Kevin Durant and in the type of shape and form as a player that you can. potentially do something. I mean, while it would suck and it might look tacky to fans, but like you got you have to do something there. Yeah. And I think Drew is an email you doca

kind of player, right? Like not even a question. And obviously, you know, they've had some time together before too. So I just think that there aren't that many options, right? Like I was, I was trying to think of like other like older vets, guys who would have that kind of. of presence. And so like, you know, C.J. McCollum got, you know, traded in that Jordan, uh, that Jordan pool deal to Washington. Again, Washington doesn't need Cajum McCollum. I don't know if C.J. is the exact right fit either. Um, doesn't bring, you know, kind of the defensive side that drew would. Um, but I don't know. Is somebody in that vein? It's just that those guys have big numbers. And it's not that it's impossible to,

to get to the number without Van Vleet's contract. It's just that it's pretty likely. Uh, And then you're also having to decide, like, is Reed Shepard part of one of these deals? Like, you could combine, like, just for the sake of argument, like, Stephen Adams, Reed Shepard and, like, one other guy could probably get you to, like, the Drew Holiday number. But, like, is that too much? Are you giving up too much depth? And probably yes. But the flip side of this, Raja, and the reason I bring it up and why I think it's so fascinating, Durand is 37 on Monday. Again, he's 37 years old.

Dude is still amazing. but when you made the trade form, it was championship robust immediately. And I don't know what the window is, a year, two, three, maybe. Maybe, maybe. You probably got to think of more than one to two. And if you don't have, you know, the means to get Fred Van Bleet replacement and somebody who can do some of the things he did, I don't know what this season becomes. The West is really tough.

They still might be a top three team for all I know. But Minnesota's right there and the Lakers are right there. The clippers, I'm going to say it, are right there. there are some really good teams in the West. It is not going to be easy just based on. And plus, Durant's going to miss some time. We know he will. And you also don't want to burn him out in the regular season when you're trying to make a deep postseason run.

So I just think it's really tough. There's a great segue here to the item that I had listed next. And producer Cliff was like trying to steal my thunder on this and get ahead of himself. But Cliff just did the what about Russ in the chat. We're getting to Russ, Cliff. You know, slow down. I'm fully prepared aim. I'm just letting you know, all the weapons are in my bag right underneath the desk here.

Plus, you're like, you're fresh, right? You've had you've had two months just to like, you know, get your conditioning going, everything else. That's right. My wind is up. That's right. Your wind is up. You're ready to go full rush stand again. It's been a few months since you've had to defend his honor.

He's still out there unsigned. We'll get to the unsigned part in a second. But how about because I have thoughts as you might. imagine. Is he a rocket's fit? No, he's not a rocket's fit. I, listen, I love, I love Russ. Everyone knows I love Russ. Everybody listening to this podcast ever knows you. He's not a rocket spit, all right? Russ, I'm sorry. Um, no, I think, I think too combustible a locker room, if that makes sense. Now, maybe combustible is the wrong word. Um, volatile? There's, there's, it's too vulnerable a locker room. There's too much of, of a vacuum there

in leadership for a personality. like Russ to step in and and who knows what happens there. So I don't think you could absorb Russ necessarily with that team if that makes sense. Like I just want to keep it a buck. I also think that given Imi Udoka's profile and what he has forged this team into with a defensive personality, a defensive edge, Russ doesn't fit that. He definitely doesn't want guys stalling out with the ball as Jalen Green did.

and Russ is not a good fit for that. Not to mention age, not to mention, oh, the biggest thing, Russ and Katie together, producer Cliff, are you kidding me? I just don't see a big happy reunion between those two anytime soon or ever. Like when they're both retired, we'll get one of those fun like, you know, NBA TV specials or a 30 for 30 doc or who knows what. Like they'll maybe they'll yuck it up someday sitting on a porch with some. lemonade, but I don't see that happening on a, on a Rockets practice court.

Yeah, it's not happening on the team flight for Houston this year. Yeah. No, I owe you guys an apology. I mean, I don't know if you're, are you done with that yet? Yeah, yeah, go. I'm always up for an apology. So I mean, you and Logan, um, is an apology? I don't know if did we bet something.

We might have bet, um, when, if you remember when Russ declined the option, I can't, I brought my behind on this pod and was like, he will definitely be on a roster. There's no way he declines that option without knowing that there's a market for him. I think is exactly what I said. Yeah. And I would, I was wrong. I was wrong. So I apologize. A fair assumption. We don't have to apologize for predictions or statements on this podcast. We all, we're all just, you know, we're just all letting it fly. No, but I was like adamant, though. I was like, you remember. I do. Well, when it comes to Rush, when are you not adamant, Raja? I mean, that's just, that's just kind of, it's just built in. Every year for the last few, because he's

been on like whatever it's been like five or six teams in the last six years, not to mention waived by Utah twice after trades. Sorry, that was gratuitous. Every time you wonder, all right, well, the Lakers had him and they decided it was time to move on. The Clippers had him, time to move on. And he makes, there are always some memorable moments. And then there's always some regrettable ones. And here it is, the nuggets have moved on. And I just don't know how many teams are left. The problem here is like there's some really, there are some teams that could really use Russ. And mean this earnestly. There are young teams especially where his work ethic, his passion, his drive, all that stuff that he brought, all the ferocity, all the things that everybody

loves about Russ could be a real asset to maybe, I don't know, Charlotte Hornets or somebody where they're still in their formative years. But Russ is going to want to join, and from everything I've heard around the league, he wants to be on a contender. The problem is the contenders either don't need him or can't afford the downsides of Russ. And so that doesn't leave you with many options. And apparently on September, as September 25th as we're recording here, it's lift him with zero options. And I don't know, barring another big injury somewhere, I don't know if that's going to change. So my guess is, you know, a month from now, a little less than that when the season's opening, he's probably not on a roster. It doesn't

mean it's over, but I don't think it looks great right now. Ben Simmons is the other one, Michael Pina and I discussed last week, but different, right? Because like Simmons hasn't even really made an impact positively on a team in a while. Russ at least has had some moments where you see like, okay, there's still some value here. Yeah, it's tough. It's tough. He's, you know, this happens. We covered it when, you know, it's not the exact same situation as Mello when Mello was, you know, kind of aging a bit. And you got to have a little bit, a little bit of self-awareness as as to who you are, like whether the ball is still yours. Melo had to figure out like, hey, I'm going to, you know,

Melo had the advantage of being able to turn himself into a spot jump shooter a little bit. Like, you know, Russ hasn't really figured that part of it out yet, which made it in some regards even easier for Mello, even though he struggled with it. But what you also, and a lot of dudes, and I found this out the hard way and a lot of guys who hang around a long time, you know, what you were as a personality is worth it while you're doing a set amount of good things that contribute toward winning. When that, when that equation changes, and you don't recalibrate who you are and how you're acting and what comes along with you, you know, in a locker room or in terms of a voice.

You know, it doesn't even have to be a negative voice. You just have to understand your place in the hierarchy in some of these places. And when you're, you know, 10, 11, 12, even if it's a voice, like it's not always your place to be that voice, right? And you've got to read that room in a way that I don't think Russ has read very well. because I you know there are things on the court that don't fit every situation but I agree with you there are situations where Russ um you know could be okay I just don't think he's read the room well in terms of like hey man you know I don't command the same level of like attention or I don't have the same voice that people are going to be listening to as I did when I was the guy and that's

hard for people to come to grips with. And everything that I heard out of Denver from multiple people starting last season. And then again, over the summers, I was checking in about where Russ might land. What's the market? All this stuff. It's the lack of self-awareness on both things. It's the fact that he's a really big voice and personality, but it doesn't have, you know, the all-star caliber game to go with it anymore. So you're diminished a little there. But also still carrying himself on the court like the guy he was when he was 25. And no, like the world. and the offense is not, you know, revolve around you anymore. And so that's one part of it that's really tough.

I was curious about this and then we'll move on from this particular topic. But like, you know, different career arc for you, Raja, but like everybody comes to that moment at some point where it's like either your body's breaking down or you've lost a half a step or whatever it may be. And you're having to like come to grips with, is it over yet? Can I get another year? Can I just tack on one more? How hard is that?

what do you think Russ is going through mentally? Like he's a different player, again, much different resume, but you come to the same, you know, at the end, you guys are all even at that point, right? You're all somebody who had a really gratifying career and you'd really like it to continue if possible. But I imagine emotionally, this is incredibly tough. Oh, this is, this is heartbreaking.

Because, you know, like, you've worked and just trusted and believed that the work you put into it is going to produce the outcome that you're used to seeing. That doesn't have to be like all-star level, but like I'm an NBA player. I'm a pro because I've worked my tail off since I was 11 years old in pursuit of this. And this is what we do. And this is the outcome we get. And I'm going to be back on that jet. And I'm going to be in that locker room.

And things are going to be the way they're supposed to be until they're not. Now, that hurts. That stings. That's embarrassing. Like there's a lot that goes on with that. You're answering a lot of questions. at least I was about like how come you're not what a roster hey man what's going on like and you know that happens for a while and then what happened with me Howard if I'm being honest was the more time I

spent around my kids in in that time of year that I didn't normally get to be around them I wasn't the drop off guy at school when they were when they were little I was a practice my wife did that like I didn't I wasn't I wasn't the guy that got up you know and and was able to pick him up and take him to practice like we were usually on a plane you know going somewhere else those were calls I got from my wife saying, hey, you should see him at, you know, but now I was doing it. And, you know, I got one call and my route was a little different and I'll get into this too. Like it was from San Antonio where I could have potentially, I'm like, I don't want to do that shit. Like I'm not, I'm not willing to do that. Now, the way I was going to have to go about it because of the way

I came into the league was a route I was not interested in going down anymore. Like I didn't want to go through the whole, hey, just come to train a can. Hey man, like, we'll let you, like I was done with that shit. I had done that coming in five times and I didn't want to do it anymore. Russ, because he didn't have to come in like that, might not rub him the wrong way if those opportunities exist. I don't know how much time he's got to spend with his family and if that's enough for him. But like my priorities had completely shifted.

I talk about that. Like I noticed that the year before in Utah where I was like, I'd rather be at home. So that helps, right? That helps, right? It certainly helps. You've got something else to look forward to, and in fact, a huge benefit by deciding it's time to walk away. But given all of that, Howard, like, if I contractually had another year, I probably,

I would have went. Like, if it wasn't a hassle, I would have went and played another year. Like, you know, but like, you know, sometimes it's, it forces you to realize like, hey, man, what else is going on in my world? And is it more important? Maybe, maybe I've been overlooked. in that for a while. Well, we know this much. There's no emotional struggle for you when it comes to being the drop off guy now and the pickup guy because you have a hard out today on the podcast to go

pick up your kid from school. So we clearly do not, we're not even at the level of the Utah jazz on the real one spot at this point. You're just like, fuck it, man. I'm out. I got to go get my kids to you guys. Got to get him. I got like, I got like three months left to being able to pick him up from school with his brothers and I'm going to everyone I could get to. Hell yes. Amen. All right. So before we jump into some media day stuff, some quotes that I pulled, I actually did want to throw one other quick news out of match you, which is, listen, I know listeners, like, we've all beaten the Kauai Clipper story to death. But I just figured like out of just curiosity, Raja, did anybody ever offer you like free 40 million or so to plant some trees or not even actually plant the trees and not show up for stuff or do anything? Which the serious version of is simply this. Just you were in the league for decade plus. There's always. rumblings. There's always rumors. There's always speculation. There's always somebody taking a little less and people wondering, I don't know. Anything from your day and did the Kauai thing surprise you in any way or do or do you view this the way that a lot of people around the league do, which is like, yeah,

of course this is happening. Not at that scale, but yeah, of course. Of course there's something like this. Yeah. If I'm being honest with you, Howard, I think that I was always under the assumption that if they wanted to, they could figure out a way to, you know, to the degree that, that, and, and the amounts that were, that were, that were, that were reported, I, I could have never imagined to that. I always thought this was like, you know, you got buddy, family member, like, we give a job, you know, there's stuff like that going on, but like, not, not, not to the, not to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the to the tune of millions and millions and millions of dollars. Um, I never saw anything like that when I played or or or or or work but uh i assumed it happened there were rumblings pre whatever collective

bargain and agreement like really started like crossing those t's and dot in the eyes of a people getting like you know car dealerships and and things like that like that that was back in the day though yeah yeah um there was always some stuff like that but none of it was ever proven or came to light it was always a suspicion and whispers which right you know i don't know what to make of usually. It's a cynical league. It's a cynical world. Yeah. But that one, you know, we will come back to it unfortunately probably many times in the months to come. So media days, as I mentioned, started up earlier this week, especially the teams that are going overseas. They all got to start early, but we're gradually making our way through. It's a great time of year for stupid cliches.

My buddy who goes by Stats Center on Blue Sky, I think he's still on the other site too. But he posted a bunch of them, like as in like, you know, media day cliche bingo, basically. I added a few of my own. So we've got the gained or lost 15 pounds. Gained. It's always muscle. Lost, always fat. Put up 10,000 shots a day or whatever, stupid number worked on my three. Coach is saying, we're going to run more this year. Play up tempo. Coach is saying, oh, identity is going to be defense this year. Everybody who changed teams loves their new city, their new teammates, their new coach that's the best fan bases in the world. Whatever role coach. wants me to play, I'm good with it.

You know, there's that one. If you're rehabbing from injury, I'm, I'm ahead of schedule. I'm head of schedule. I'm looking good, feeling good. What was your favorite? How many of those did you check off? Did you get like fucking media day cliche bingo over the course of your career? Oh, dude.

I was, yeah, I mean, I checked most of those boxes. Whatever. I have them all down. Whatever role, yeah, for sure. How many of them were lies? No, I mean, well, I, I mean, They were all said, I think, with good intent. Like whether they worked out that way or not.

All right. But like, yeah, towards the end of my career, it became about like, the funniest one year when I came to Utah, the first year I was came to Utah, back to Utah. You know, I had done a lot of work on my body and I felt really good. Best I've ever felt. There's another one. Yes.

Yeah, best I ever felt. Right. I felt really good. Like, like, but I was like, I usually played in like two, 207, 208, like right, just under 210, but I was probably like 213. Like, I felt good. Like I was physical. And that first year was just not very good.

Yeah. Kevin O'Connor, not that the second year was much better, but Kevin O'Connor was like, hey, whatever you did in our exit interview, whatever you did last summer clearly didn't work. So then I went back to the drawn board and I did cross-skinned and I got really, really, like, lean. So I came in the next year, probably like, 204. but like, or maybe 205, but like really lean. I changed my body comp and stuff like that.

Yeah, I mean, I probably played slightly better for the amount of games I played, but probably not much better. But it was at the end of it, you're throwing anything you can at the wall. Just see what sticks. Just a clarification for the younger listeners. That would be Kevin O'Connor, former GM of the Jazz, not Kevin O'Connor, former ringer colleague of ours. All right.

So let's go there. We're going to play a little game here. I'm going to read a quote. You try to guess who it is. Oh, shit. All right. and on the theme, here's the quote, I haven't felt like this since college.

I can just walk into gym and I feel good. Zion Williams. Yes. Ding, ding, ding, ding. Nicely done. He looks felt. I mean, he does. Yeah.

He does. Yeah, listen, it all looks great, sounds great with Zion. He looks amazing. I don't doubt the optimism. I don't doubt that he probably is the best he's felt since college, except that sadly we have heard that exact line from Zion. I think pretty much every year for the last few, including in 2022, when I went down to Fort Lauderdale for a day and spent time with Zion and his whole crew, his trainer, his dad, or stepfather,

like he had just come back from that really rough season coming back in great shape. And so it's hard. There is a little bit of a, you know, won't get fooled again feeling here, I think for probably, certainly for Pelicans fans and for that organization. And I think for all of us where it's like, man, I hope, I hope this is it. I hope this is the best he's felt and the best he looks and the best shape he's been in. And it'll continue because the whole trajectory of the Pelicans is different if that's the case. But yeah, it's really hard not to be jaded about it when it's a player who every year, you know, either he doesn't stay in shape, comes in a great shape, doesn't stay in shape, or gets hurt again. And, you know, some of that's in your control and some's not. I think the

Pelicans feel like that's probably a mixed bag in terms of how Zion, how much of that is Zion's responsibility. Yeah, yeah, I really, it would be really interesting to be kind of a fly on the wall there just to see, you know, because there are two components of that. Well, there are more than two components, but there are two major components. It's your strength and condition and your training staff, right? It's your, it's your sports medicine team. And then it's how dedicated he is to participating in what they're asking him to do

if it's the right stuff that they're presenting him with. And then, you know, the other part of that would be how dedicated he is to the nutritional part of it, the sleep part of it, the, you know, the rest and recovery part of it, right? And so, you know, those things have to, they have to intersect, like, just perfectly for you to be LeBron James, let's say, to have that type of career, you know? But like, some people figure it out early and they're great with it. They got great examples in role models, like great vets. Some people don't get it for a while. Some people never get it. It'll be interesting to see if Zion has it or can ever get to the point where he has that preseason, the one that we're jaded about.

And then he figures out how to lock in and carry that through a season because, you know, like I think we don't like to see that. Willie Green, his coach said, quote, when he's available, he's one of the best players in the NBA. And nobody can argue with that. But the second part of that quote was availability is going to be huge for him, which like that's the whole, that's his career in a nutshell right now. When available, one of the best in the NBA. Is he going to be available? How often? I think the interesting thing with the Pelicans,

I think everybody's got them as a bottom three, bottom four team in the West. And there's like some serious talent on the roster, but I don't know how these pieces fit. And even if you get a full season from Zion, whatever a full season means in 2025 terms, Jordan Poole, I guess is going to be their opening night point guard. And then Trey Murphy, Herb Jones, Zion, Missy, I guess, maybe at center.

They brought him to Kvon Looney. They drafted Derek Queen. Jose Alvarado is still around. Dejante Murray, still recovering somewhere in the wings. Like, can they get him back at some point? There's another guy who, if healthy, would be a nice target for the Rockets, but not soon. That's a good name. Probably not soon enough.

So, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't think any of us are expecting miracles from the Pelicans, even if Zion, you know, truly does have like a career year where he stays healthy. So yeah, honestly, I think they're a year. Like if you're behind closed doors in those executive offices, like, and you're talking about the year and what, what is a win for us this year? I don't think it has much to do with playoffs, win totals and all.

I think it has to do with like, can he stay healthy? Yeah. And then let's take a look at these pieces. Like, let's figure out what we have. Yeah. All right. Next quote. Quote, I hope that we win more games than we won last year.

But the truth is it's not going to be measured of wins and losses this year. but it is going to be measured in success. This is a tough one. Not here's the question. You're on the right track, not a player. Not right. Player. Dang it.

Not Pat Riley. Coach in Utah? No. Danny Age? It's an owner. Oh, Matt Ispia? Your Phoenix Sun's owner, Matt Ispia. I should have known that.

Why? What's rolling? Well, I mean, the very fact that he's saying something that is kind of like muddled and strange and full of spin means it has to be, I mean, there are other owners who might do that too, but Ishbia speaks more than most of them, which I appreciate. By the way, which, which reminds me, your pal Steve Nash hired as a senior advisor to Matt Isbia. That can only be a good thing for a franchise that's had a lot of tumult and a lot of front office turnover and just change. And Rajah, when's like, can Nash bring you in as like the assistant to the senior

advisor? Like, when's that happening? Yeah, I mean, well, you know, he had told me that he was thinking about taking a job. I heard that he took the job through you guys in the chat last night. I didn't even see that. So, so as I'm getting in the car to buckle up, I will be sending the text, yo. Just a yo, just a yo. Let's see where it goes. No, but he, you know what he did say before he, this was prior to him getting the job?

This was like at some point when he was talking about maybe, you know, he had said that they were, it just looked like it was kind of all over the place. You know what I mean? Like, and it's what we, just what we kind of said on the pod. And I, you know,

I talk about all the time is like, yo, do we have a roadmap? Like, do we, is there any plan from getting a to Z? Or are we just, we just come into the office every day, throwing shit everywhere.

And I think, you know, he alluded to that. I didn't say that verbatim, but he was like, look, there's, there's,

so I think he will, he will help out for sure in terms of vision. Steve's really good with that. Like, for whatever he was in, in, in Brooklyn or he wasn't sitting in that chair. He's really good at vision and laying out a plan to execute that or at least helping out in that regard. That probably won't be his primary job.

But I think he'll be an asset to them. And look, I mentioned just the turnover, right? So James Jones, who had been an executive of the year, they had pushed him aside into some sort of consulting role. He subsequently left and took Joe Dumars' old role as effectively the effectively the czar of discipline for the NBA. So he's now here in New York. And Brian Gregory, whose name I have to look up, I think, every time I've never met the man, but he's now the GM of the sons after spending one entire year in James Jones's front office. But he's an Ishbia guy.

I think Ishbia was, I saw more Ishbia quotes on social media yesterday than I saw Brian Gregory read quotes. So I just, I do think there is, like, there may be too many cooks in the kitchen out there, but like adding Steve to that kitchen is undoubtedly a good thing. You need somebody who's kind of knows the league. I think Matt Ishbia has been way out over his skis as an owner of his first few years here. That's clear. James Jones had a lot of experience and now he's out. Brian Gregory has very little experience. So I hope for the son's sake and for your sake, Raja, to the extent that you still have a son's rooting interest that Steve brings some needed wisdom there. I do think, like, so Isbia says this quote.

Like, it's not going to be measured wins and losses, but in success, which what the hell does that mean? So he followed up with, he followed up on Twitter after everybody was clowning him to, to clarify. He says, success is making our fans proud of our team and excited to watch every game. Success is getting better every day all season. Success is building a championship culture and identity. Okay, fine. I mean, but like, he just, the guy just needs to be a little bit more straightforward.

Like, I appreciate that he talks a lot. I appreciate that he is passionate. I appreciate that he is, is candid, but his candor is often spin candor. Because he says things like, and this was, he sat down with ESPN the other day. And on the Kevin Durant thing on the trade, he says, he just wasn't a fit for what we were doing going forward. Like, no, Kevin Durant want it out. It's okay to just say, I made a. huge freaking trade three seconds after I took ownership of the team.

I gave away all of our assets. It didn't work. It didn't work. That's all you need to say to that. It didn't work. It didn't work out. He wasn't a fit. Kevin Durant's not a fit.

Like, stop. Like, you don't have to spin everything. And you build more credibility with the fans in the media by being honest about where your missteps were and being honest about bad situations. And you created a bad situation. And to your credit, whoever got in your ear finally and said you got to undo this thing you traded Durant obviously

not for nearly as much as what you traded to get him you know bought out Bradley Beale you or waved and stretched him he's going to be on your books for years to come again not great but you recognize that you had hit a dead end right like but it's okay to say that so anyway yeah I agree could have just said could have just said like we're going to be exciting we're going to play hard we're going to get these fans excited again yeah yeah right and and And that's it. Just like, just be straightforward. All right. Next quote. I literally sat there and cried for two hours because so many things ran through my mind.

Damn, is my career over? Am I going to get traded? Are all my partner is going to drop me? My basketball career flashed in front of my eyes. I'm in my prime. One of the best basketball players in the world, maybe a giveaway. And it felt like it was all taken. Jason Tatum?

That's Tatum. Yeah. I probably should have stopped before that. Because you were, I was watching your expressions, Roger. You're like, huh? Wait. That's go a lot of places with that one. Yeah.

There are a lot. That was Jason Tatum to People magazine. Tatum really made the media rounds this week. I think he sat with ESPN. He sat with Sports Illustrated, my buddy, Chris Manix. He did a lot. He was definitely on a recovering from Achilles tour to discuss it all. What struck you?

Yeah. Yeah, my bad. My bad. Because I was just remembering you guys were in the group. You sent or we in our group text, someone sent him at the desk with I don't get enough credit. like or I yeah like some quote like that you know what's funny about that one because I was all like I'm easily annoyed as you guys know um the I'm not getting enough credit thing and I and so I was like come on Jason Tatum like you're you're perennially you know one of the top five MVP voting

you know a zillion and all NBA and all star and everything else so then I went to go look it up you know it was really a fault for that quote and for it making Tatum look like he's the one saying I don't get credit the guy who asked the question uh Stephen A. Set him right up there, huh? He said, I'm not going to do a Stephen A impression. That would be annoying. But he said there's been an absence of appreciation for who you are.

When they talk about superstars in the NBA, they don't talk about you like that. Which, all right, I'm sorry, bullshit. That's just not even true. But when you say that, of course, the player sitting in front of you on live TV is going to just kind of embrace that and run with the premise. But I don't think Tatum's quote was even all, like, it wasn't nearly as strong as what Steve. I said. So I'm going to give Tatum a pass on that one. He's, he's, he's never been like that, I don't think. He's not somebody who's out there trying to, like, drum up, you know, or I'm underappreciated. Like, I'm sure he's probably said it something at times. He didn't win finals MVP or

whatever. But, um, no, I mean, the guy's, the guy is widely, universally respected. Yeah. Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. And I, listen, I mean, the flashing before my eyes, you know, really kind of hit me there like that. When, when that injury, when you have an injury like that, And I know it sounds cliche, but like it, your mortality just flashes before you're, your basketball mortality or your football mortality, whatever that is. I mean, in a nanosecond, it all just ran through your head. Like, you know, you're like an old movie and they have the clips of like the old grainy, you know, film. Like that's just flying through your head and like, and it's crazy how that happens like that.

But it was good to see him. I saw him on some of the stuff. It was good to see him out and about. Yeah. And, you know, making the rounds. And seemingly in good spirits, right? He seems like he's really in a good place mentally in contrast to what he was talking about when he first went down, which understandable. Dr. Martin O'Malley, the orthopedist who did the surgery in that same story in People magazine said that his progress has been really impressive, that quote, I don't think I've seen a person's Catholic as strong as his.

At six or eight weeks, he was doing double heel rises. And so, like, loss of strength is often the issue within Achilles, he says, and he doesn't think that's going to be an issue for Tatum. I don't think we should expect Tatum or Tyrese Halliburton and certainly not Dame Lillard on the court that all this season. Tatum is doing the usual thing where it's like I'm not planning on. I'm not ruling it out. I'm not whatever. And that's the right attitude to take, I think. But like this is a loss season for the Celtics.

And I'm very curious. Pina and I talked about this last week. I'm very curious to see what Jalen Brown looks like as kind of the number one option for the time being. But like you traded Drew Holiday away and you traded Porzingis and Horford's leaving. to probably sign with the Warriors and like there's just not much there. Having Tatum come back at any point just seems foolish. Yep. And yeah.

So I don't, I don't think we'll see him. And I kind of hope we don't. All right, one quick, funny quote. I'm super excited. I haven't had a good screen in two years. Oh, I'm super excited. I haven't had a good screen. Steph Curry?

No. He gets good screens, though. I'm trying to think of someone who uses. Can you give me a hint? Is this like, would I be using a screen? to come off shooting or would I be using it on a ball screen? To do whatever the hell he wants because he really likes having the ball in his hands and doing stuff with it. All right.

Lamello ball. No. No. This would be Jordan Poole, in fact. Because he got traded to the Pelicans and then they signed Kavan Looney. And so this is about his little warriors reunion with Looney. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah.

Because he was, Steph was the beneficiary or some good Lutie screens. Oh, yeah. But I haven't had a good screen in two years. I'm sure you're feeling really great if you're a wizard's big right about now. Love Jordan Pool. Just saying his piece. That's great stuff. Like that's on brand, but like, come on, man.

Like we're not thinking before we're like, what are we doing? That's fine. I love it. Keep keep coming with it. All right. Maybe we can squeeze two more quotes in here. Quote, I think if I came in here and preached how much I want to win and try to take every dollar and make it difficult. for the organization, I'd seem like a fraud. And that's not who I am. I want to win bad and whatever

it takes. I've got a good amount of money. I don't think a couple more M's, I guess that's millions, will change my life. Jimmy Butler? No. No. Signed an extension reason. One of these summer transactions that we just glossed right over. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. That was McHale Bridges. Kale Bridges. Noteworthy, in part, because, Because when people started buzzing about capser convention and Kauai, McHale taking a little discount a year after Jalen Brunson signed early. Like in both cases, I think they both are just kind of like extended early. And so it's not like they gave up a ton, but they did give up some in the process. And of course, it's got everybody looking sideways at the Knicks because of the Knicks and, you know, because they'd already gotten caught tampering to get Jalen Brunson in the first place.

But it's just there's a cynicism there. And there are people around the league rages, including somebody I was having a very, intense texting conversation with a couple days ago who's in the league who was basically like this, no, just saying like I don't, this can't be right. And I was pushing back, not on behalf of the Knicks or McHill Bridges, but just on on this principle. I've been covering the league long enough to remember when, you know, Carmelone and Gary Payton go to the to the Lakers in tandem, both taking massive pay cuts. And they were toward the end of their careers, but they still could have both commanded huge salaries. And one took the mid-level, the other one took like the minimum

to join the Lakers to try to win a title with Shaq and Kobe, because of the that point, they wanted a championship more than they wanted more money. The very first team I ever covered was the 97-98 Lakers and Rick Fox had just gotten there. And Rick had turned down much more guaranteed money from, I think it was Cleveland at the time. And then turned down money again the next year, he was going year by year to earn his bird rights with the Lakers so he'd eventually get it. But in the meantime, he was sacrificing. But Rick, that was, he was all about like, I would rather win. I don't need to make the maximum. And this is when NBA player salaries were, a fraction of what they are today. So my point to this person I was having this intense argument with

who works in the league the other day was simply like, I get it. I understand the cynicism. I understand the suspicion. I also think that, you know, there are players in this league still to this day who do want to win as much as they want to make the money. And I think we, I try to be careful about just assuming anything because these guys make so much now. Like, Mikhail Bridges, I haven't looked at his career earnings, but I'm sure he's already cleared $100 million for his career. So sacrificing, quote, unquote, a few million, if it means being in a great situation with a team you love, in a city that you love, and a chance to win a title, I don't think that's a stretch or am I being naive? No, I don't think you're being naive. Look, money is money.

Some of us have to, some of us aren't in situations all the time where we can make those kind of calls. But given the opportunity and I tried to, you know, like the only, like I do this all the time, but like my son Dia, right? It's going into a, you know, an NIL situation, and we've been navigating it the last few years. And, you know, he's lucky in some regards that I was blessed to do what I do. But like, he had already expressed not chasing the highest potential NIL situation. He wanted to go somewhere where he thought he fit, where his quality of life was going to be what he wanted it to be, where they had a chance to win. So like if 18-year-olds are on that wavelength already, some of them, like, I don't think it's crazy to think somebody with $100 million would say, I'll give up a few of them to live in New York City and play with my buddies on a pretty damn good team. That's ridiculous. Right. You don't necessarily have to have some under the table deal with like the bodega down the street or or Katzis Deli or something.

Right. Aside from that, just being in New York and being on the Knicks, like you're probably getting legit endorsements that are making up some of this anyway. There are more guys in the NBA that do that than you would, like, than you would guess. And just because they sign a big deal at, at X destination doesn't mean there wasn't a better deal on the table at Y destination. And they said, I'd rather go to X. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think we should be that jaded about it. I get it that in certain situations and certainly like the Kauai one is like, you know, like it's like a bazillion alarm bells going off.

but I don't think that every time a guy takes a few million less than what he could theoretically get or a little less than the max. If it helps the team, it helps you too. To the extent that players in this league do want to win and would prefer to win, and maybe not all, by the way, there are plenty of guys in this league who will take the guaranteed money over the better playing situation or competitive situation. Or they'll take the opportunity to go have the ball in their hands more. There are other priorities, right? It's always balancing all these things. What city do you want to live in? Where's your family live?

Where will you, if you're married, where will your family be happy? What are the schools like? There's all these different things. And I think there are tradeoffs in every single one of these decisions contractually. And this is, like, McHale Bridges got to go to a finals with the sons and then spent a couple of really rough years with the Nets. He's playing, you know, with his old college buddy Brunson. They're a team that's really well positioned to make it to the finals and that could have

multiple bites at the apple the next few years. Like, why wouldn't you want to help? especially in today's MBA where that second apron is so tough, to be a contender year and year out for a three to five year run and be able to do it without having to sacrifice players and talent because of the cap issues. Everybody. Yeah. The agents and the players and their agents are now going to have to bake that into these decisions.

Like I know it sucks. I know it sucks to say that a players have to sacrifice. You know, the owners are billionaires. It's not about the luxury tax anymore. It's about the team being hamstrung and not being able to do anything else. with the roster if they're up against the first or especially the second apron. So if you're cognizant of that, I think it's fair. So we have reached Roger Bell's heart out because he's the pickup guy now.

He's got to go get the kids. We respect it. We are not as compelling as the Utah Jazz. And I don't have a spare mid-level contract to send him. So we will wrap it up there. Happy to be back with you, Raja. Happy to have real ones back. We will be back again.

And next Friday, and I will see you then, sir. And thank you all for listening. We will see you then.