The Ringer NBA Show - Who Will the NBA’s New Terrain Favor?

Episode Date: September 24, 2021

Chris and Seerat discuss some of the rules that will be implemented in the NBA this season and which players and teams will be impacted most by these changes. Hosts: Chris Ryan and Seerat Sohi Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? I'm JJ John D. Stramski. And I'm Jason Gough, and if you haven't heard, the ringer has gone local. I'm bringing the fire. I'm bringing the rain from the Big Apple with my show, New York, New York. And I'm reping Shy Town with my new show The Full Go on All Things Chicago. We've got episodes three nights a week with all the reaction to the local teams and guests. Plus bonus episodes around all the big games and storylines.

So whether you're uptown, downtown, downtown, in the Burbs or a transplant. Make sure you follow New York, New York, and the full go on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Hello and welcome to the Ringer NBA show. It's The Answer. I'm Chris Ryan. I am joined as always by Syriot Soie. What's up, Siritt? How's it going, Chris?

It's going delightfully well in my neck of the woods. My neck of the woods is right to the left of Ben Simmons's left shoulder. That's where the woods are. And we have a fun show today. The shooting shoulder. Which is at the right shooting arm, though. That's the question. Today we're going to be talking a little bit about some of the rule changes that the NBA

is implementing or rather some of the referee guys. that they have doled out today, Monty McCutcheon, doing a scintillating press conference that Sirr listened to and that we've talked about a little bit. And, you know, the terrain, the landscape of the NBA will look different this season. And I think that that is an interesting conversation to have, especially says we've kind of talked the Ben Simmons thing to death

over the last couple of weeks. This week, obviously we had some woge tweets. We had Doc going on first take. My opinion, such as there is one, has not really evolved that much. I am starting to feel like he, Ben Simmons, might be a Sixer for longer than people initially anticipated. Sir, have you had any, like, revelations

about this Ben thing? Have you, have you had a change of heart, a calling? You know, I'm very much, I'm at the place where my heart is really just not in it anymore. But what, so why do you think that that he's going to stay at Sixers?

Well, Doc's appearance on first take aside, I have found, I've noted with interest the Sixers absolute stone face silence on this whole thing. So Doc Rivers obviously went on first take. He said that he had misinterpreted when he was quoted after the game where he was asked, you know, can you win a championship with Ben Simmons as a point guard? And his answer was, I'm paraphrasing Doc. Although I'm sure Doc would get mad that I'm paraphrasing because this is sort of his point. But to paraphrase Doc Rivers, he was like, I don't know the answer to that question right now.

He's saying he was like, I'm freaking out a little bit. We just lost. like, give me a second to think about everything. Everybody else in the planet interpreted as, no, we cannot win a championship with Ben Simmons is our point card. So fast forward a couple of months, Ben Simmons and the Sixers, their relationship has obviously fallen apart. There have been increasingly, you know,

I would say high-level media reports about Ben Simmons is dissatisfaction with the Sixers. Wojtweeing this week that he intends to hold out, that he does not want to play another game for the Sixers. I just have a feeling like I have a feeling like that the Sixers are just going to hold the cards that they have and they're not going to take a Kauai-esque deal just because Ben Simmons is unhappy with the way the offseason went for him.

So yeah, I mean, I don't really know where the story goes until we get some Darry-Mory state of the team talk when training camp opens. I'd almost argue that Doc, you know, Doc's explanation only confirms to me what he felt to. be the truth because he's basically saying that the moment was just so chaotic and I hadn't, you know, had a chance to think about it that I just said a thing. Usually when that happens, it's the thing that you actually think that you're telling you. You might not have intellectualized why that is yet, but, you know, it's probably what he was feeling in those moments. I'm sure it's

similar to what Joelle and Bede was feeling. Yeah. Joel has since come out and said, I want to play with Ben. I want to win with Ben. I love our team. So, I think that the fact that it has been a one-way river of information kind of coming from the clutch area suggests to me that the Sixers are either waiting for a domino to fall or are just like, you know what? Like playing with an unhappy Ben Simmons is better than playing with a happy T.J. Warren and Malcolm Brogden or whoever it is, this like the return package would be. So we'll see what happens there. Also, obviously, I guess it's worth mentioning massive upheaval in the Minnesota Timberwolves. front office. That one really escalated quickly in the words of Anchorman. Gerson Roses was let go from the wolves yesterday.

And in this proceeding 24 hours, a lot of stuff came out about the state of that front office. The vibes coming out of that front office, maybe some inter-office consensual adult relationships have been discussed. So really not a lot to get into just there. Like, Sashi and Gupta is going to be taking over the front office. for a little while. The wolves had been rumored to be a Simmons destination, although they had also been rumored to have been withholding most of their major assets. So I don't know if that

changes the Wolf's calculus or the Sixers calculus or anything. But any, any Wolves' thoughts? I think we could kind of dive deeper into franchises and crisis in a later episode, though. Yeah, I'd say, you know, whoever, I mean, first of all, I'm curious to see how much power action is given to actually make like a big move like that. If he is empowered to, then, you know, nobody knows what's going to happen next. I have no idea what his appraisal of Anthony Edwards or D'Angle Russell or anybody else on that team is. And like those are obviously like the two major pieces.

So I guess we'll see what he thinks about them. But I mean, to me, it just kind of swings back to the same issue of like why it is so hard to find a trade. Like Anthony Edwards is fantastic. he's not going to be your championship piece right now. So you still need to find a third team. And if it's Daniel Russell that you're getting for Ben, he's still on that tier of guys that like they could probably trade.

I'd probably rather have C.J. McCollum, who I would assume is getable at this point. So I don't know. I don't know how much has actually really changed. Sure. But if they do, I mean, it could get really ugly if they decide to keep him around. They can't find him quite yet.

I think he's already, he's already received, like, the installment of his salary that he's going to get up until, like, I think, like, the year only has, like, a quarter left in it, which is going to be way past. Like, at that point, I imagine he will no longer be a six or. So if he really does decide to hold out, then I don't know, like, if they're willing to weather that early storm and wait to see, like, is Portland going to fall apart? or, you know, I guess, you know, stuff has already gone down in Minnesota or the wizard's going to fall apart. Is Beale going to become available? I mean, this, I don't know. It just, it's easy to say like, okay, just wait it out. But, I mean, training cap opens in a week.

There's still a week for them to trade him. We'll see. I'm, I don't know. I still feel like we're exactly where we are. Yeah, I agree with you. So let's talk about something that has changed. which is the rules governing NBA games. Now, basically, this is not a secret.

We've been talking about this, or this has been out there in the ether that the NBA's competition committee and that the referees were all the stakeholders and how the game is played, we're going to get together. And today, Monty McCutcheon, like I mentioned,

who works in the league office and works with referees, came out and gave a press conference with a lot of video evidence to put calls that he was going to, that the NBA competition committee, that the league office was going to be recommending that the referees change their

sort of attitude about, changed their refereeing attitude. Sir, why don't we talk a little bit about some of the things that are going to be different in games next season? Yeah, so basically, like, what we're going to see is just like a lot of what they are calling non-basketball moves are going to be

legislated out of the game. Like, I think we kind of intuitively know what all of those are. Like, it's unnatural moves. It's like, you know, jumping ahead to take a jump, like, if you would take a jump, jumpers going up and down. Jumping ahead is not a natural movement. It's an attempt to get into your defender,

what is considered your defender's space, right? And I think that's really like what the, what the crux of this is about. It's about offensive players trying to get into spaces that are intended to be, to like belong to the defender in order to put them in a position where they can easily draw a foul or just like makes it impossible for them to play defense.

So yeah, To me, it's really just about space. Like, whether that's, you know, exaggerating a pump fake, like going ahead on it, you know, veering to the side when, like, you were clearly going straight just to get into, like, the area that the area that the defender was clearly running into. So there's, it's, it's really just a lot about, um, how those things are going to be interpreted and, you know, just allowing defenders to defend. We had a banner season for offense, and this seems to be like the natural, or I guess unnatural. It is a rule that has been imposed on the sport response to that. Yeah, so I thought it was really interesting.

I wouldn't necessarily recommend anybody go dig up McCutcheon's press conference, but I think it's worth noting that one of the things that he said in his sort of preamble before he started taking questions. Basically, he gave a statement, took like one or two questions. and then started getting into specific examples of the kinds of basketball or non-basketball moves this here, it said, that are not going to be allowed this season. Now, he says they're not going to be allowed. What he really means is we're not going to call these as defensive fouls anymore.

And at a certain point, it might actually be an offensive foul, but I think that there's going to be a lot of sort of open to interpretation for each referee as to whether or not you feel like that's a non-call, that's an offensive foul. Or in some cases, that is still a defensive foul. I think that there will be probably all sorts of things going on. But one thing that McCutcheon said that I wanted to kind of jump off of here, because what we're really trying to answer this week on the answer is how will these rule changes affect the game. McCutcheon pointed out that they basically like the point of NBA basketball,

the point of basketball is not to maximize offensive efficiency. It's to make it basically like the sport should be fair for both sides of the ball, for basketball and for offense and defense. And that, you know, everybody loves. seeing like the high octane offenses, the scores, scoring is inflated. So right now and that maybe is good

for the entertainment value of the game. But right now, that there's basically too many punitive actions being taken against what is still traditional, quote unquote, good defending. Is that a pretty fair assessment of what McCutcheon said? Yeah, I'd say so. And I think this is actually like one of the situations

where it's rare that this happens. Like in a history of rule changes in basketball, like most of the changes have happened to, you know, encourage more offense. Or, you know, like, I mean, I'll take us through like a kind of brief, like, history of rule changes in the game. Like basketball, I think we said, I said this on the last podcast when we were talking about the Hall of Fame, was invented so that, you know, players were, like, you know, any athlete, any person would, I guess probably men back then, though, were, we would have a,

a winter sport that they could play that was not. violent. But it's still a contact sport. So in any contact sport, like a lot like soccer, you have to then balance out like, you know, maintaining the game's essence with like the natural aggression that happens with competitiveness. And like that is essentially what's like been happening with basketball since it was invented from like fouls up until, you know, you know, the invention of the three point line. You know, the bad boys pistons were the reasons that we now have flagrant fouls to, you know, this. But the rare thing about this is that this is one of the few instances in which

offensive play is actually taking away from the entertainment of the game. So that to me is like really interesting. And I don't actually know that this would have happened if not for that. Like if it was just a case of like offenses are just scoring a lot and it's really entertaining and the game is flowing, that's one thing he said too. He wants a sport to, you know, look like the sport, but the flow is important alongside the balance. So this is more an attempt to maintain flow,

to find a sense of zen. Anybody who's watched basketball in the last two or three years has lost that sense of Zen. Like, it is, there's like a weird, like, nitrous hit when you get more than three possessions in a row going back and forth down the court, and there's not a stoppage in play. Now, some of that is just, you know, like the athleticism on display in the court and maybe some of the tactical fouling that happens where it's like a team just understands like, well, it's better to take a foul here than to allow a breakaway dunk or whatever.

And we can get into that because that drives me absolutely out of my mind. But I do think that it's worth mention. Like what you're saying is like, if you watch basketball and this isn't necessarily all are going to be targeted towards Tray Young or Devin Booker or Chris Paul or James Harden or any of them. Many players who have started to, or look at Donchitz or anybody who has sort of mastered the dark arts of getting other guys to make contact where they weren't intending to do so. I think that it really has sort of like on a cumulative level decreased the amount of entertainment that's been a part of the game. Exactly what you're saying. Ironically, since the scores are out of control, the individual statistics are ballooning. and it should be what is considered

like an offensive renaissance, right? I was very poorly times. I'm sorry, that was my bad. I could tell you were drinking water. I should have just kept pamphing. Sorry, Isaiah, we'll go back. I thought you had like two more sentences at least. My bad.

Three, two, one. Sorry, what did you say? I said basically, like, it's just ironic that like in an age where like so many of the offensive statistics are so inflated and like the scores are running up that were actually like maybe having, less fun watching basketball. Yeah, yeah, it is like, it's,

it's not, like, it's surprising. But it's also, I mean, like, it's interesting to me that this is just very much a product of, of, like, players reacting to rules. Like, players literally watching the tape and, you know, dissecting the rule book. Like, that's just kind of, that's a part to me that's, like, the most fascinating about it,

which also, like, makes me really interested in seeing, like, what we see next. as well. So who do you think are the players that are going to be most affected by, especially than the unnatural basketball movements

or the non-basketball movements that are going to be starting to get reverse policed here, I guess. I mean, I guess like, you know, we know the obvious ones, James Harden, Luca, Trey.

But honestly, and the reason that the NBA had to step in is not like necessarily that those guys are doing it, but that because it was like, such an effective thing that it became adaptive. And like everyone started doing it.

Like the video examples that they took us all through. Like it includes like, you know, Paul George, Lou Dort, Dylan Brooks, like, you know, R.J. Barrett. Like pretty much any perimeter player. And another guy who I think will be impacted a lot by this is Embed. Like in so there are going to be big men. Yokic will probably be affected. Probably not as much as Embeddered. but he like really, I feel like the last two off seasons, and a lot of players, the last few off seasons,

have spent a lot of time trying to, you know, master these new tricks at like, you know, a guy like Hardin or, you know, like came up with, I guess, right? Like, he is probably the, the origin of all of this. So, yeah, I think it's, I think it's everyone, honestly, just because, like, it's not like they nipped this in the bud, like a couple years ago, right? Like, it's been going on for a while. Yeah, I, you know, this. This is the sort of like a larger philosophical conversation about just because we can do something.

Does that mean we should? Right? So I think that I'd be curious to know whether NBA players, like in a kind of blind survey of NBA players, like whether they would be like, yeah, like basketball kind of sucks right now. Not that I think basketball sucks. But if they have been like the game is choppy, I get called for tiki tack fouls. I don't like the fact that I know that if I want to just like stop short and throw my butt out or stop short and jump diagonally, I can get a guy into foul trouble and then go to the line and then like stop the play and then maybe get, you know, two shots there. Like, I wonder whether or not this is something that the NBA is listening to, whether it's television partners or just sensing the ground swell of sort of complaining on the part of the, um, part of the fans or whether this is something that they are hearing from coaches and players. Because everyone of those coaches that's complaining about it

probably has a player on their team that does it. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this impacts, like, every team that I thought of that would benefit from us also has players that would have to change their style as well. It's really, it's one of those things where I think it's kind of like, when you take the idea of, like, hey, like,

just because we can do something, should we do it? And then you put it into a competitive arena. it just kind of changes because that question becomes answered immediately, right? Like, it's always yes. If it's something that will impact the game. So I imagine, I imagine there's probably players

that are probably a little bit happy about this. Just the fact that, you know, if you look at trying to draw a three-point foul, like, for example, right? That is the most efficient play in the game right now. You get like a guy like Trey Young or Luca, like good free throw, like, you know, look at a little bit less.

But if you get a good free throw shooter, three free throws, that's just like that's the ultimate win in a possession, right? Like there is nothing that any of these players, whether it's like Hardin or Trey or Katie or Kyrie or Paul George or Kauai or any of these guys can do to change that essential fact. So I think, I don't know, like fans are annoyed, but I imagine that just like what we see next from players will also just be like more exciting too.

Yeah. Do you think that flow-wise, because that's obviously, I think, aside from honoring maybe like a sort of competitive spirit of the game, because you're like, well, that contact would not have been there had you not jumped into this guy diagonally. Do you think that, let's say they start calling these offensive fouls? Like, that's not going to help the flow of the game, but that may make the game more fair. Do you think that there's going to be like basically a learning curve for referees in implementing, this stuff. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's actually something that they were like they were anticipating. One of the things was like really interesting about the, about the press conference, Monty McCutcheon said, let me find it. Visual syntax. He called it visual syntax, but that's

basically just like it feels to me like your mind slowly learning to process specific movements. And like, you know, the reps are now being asked to reinterpret movements that they've been seeing going on for like the last few years, right? So they, started their training on that already. I think like they do it with video. I imagine in, you know, you know, like there will be a difference in how it looks and how it feels when they actually get onto the court. But yeah, like that's part of what they're anticipating for sure. And it was interesting because like he compared it to how teams are. Like he kind of said like, look, like we all study the tape. We all want to be really good at this. And a lot of it just is

information processing. It's like being able to make an instinct move. Like that's essentially what basketball is too. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the problem with that, I guess, is, and this gets into sort of how we watch the sport, is the technological advances that we have made in sort of perceiving basketball. So when we watch a game on TV now, it looks drastically different than the way it did in 2002 when we first started seeing instant replay on TV. I think, that the first instant replay used in the NBA game was in a Western Conference Finals game, a Lakers game back in 2002. And then it has slowly sort of like become the common language of watching sports is this sort of slowed down,

very, very micro zoomed in. What actually happened underneath this guy's body? What did the ball last touch in the micro second before it crossed the plane of out of of bounds or a touchdown or what have you. Did the ball cross the plane of the goal in a soccer match? And we get like so, so, so invested in that.

And I think that that's kind of like a governing principle of like what's happening in sports right now where you are on this like quest for a greater, like the truth about it or like what is capital R right? Like who is the right champion this year? And it's like, oh, the Lakers have an asterisk. The Raptors have an asterisk. The Bucks have an asterisk. I'm sorry to fans of those teams.

I'm just saying that that has been talked about. Because had those injuries not happened, this would have been a Lakers year, of Nets year, what have you. And I think that the call, this idea about getting these calls right starts out from a right, you know, the good place of like, we want to get the call right. We want to know if this guy actually caught a ball. We want to know whether or not this guy,

the shot went in before the clock went off. And then you just start to get into where the sport itself is this debate about a matter of microse milliseconds rather than watching athletes compete with any kind of like rhythm, you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. The nature of winning thing is

that we're all like kind of starting to explore, right? Is like really, especially with how much like COVID has changed the landscape of the league and like all leagues really is interesting. Like, because you can give everybody an asterisk like Lakers bubble asterisk, right? Like raptors, injuries, you know, like, the only, like, if you go back, obviously, like, it's easy, it's easy to give the bucks an asterisk, right? Like, every single team can be, you know, like their journey can be analyzed and discredited in some way. And I feel like that's often

what is used to, like, that's, like, why we have these discussions. But, like, I feel like, it's really just a commentary on the fact that like winning just involves a lot of luck and we just shouldn't take it as seriously as we do. But then, you know, none of us would be here. Yeah. I mean, I guess it's a question about whether or not you would ask, I mean, I take your pick of some like Western Conference playoffs series from like the Kobe Shack era or like, well, it's funny that they did it in 2002, right? Like I imagine if there was. I'm, I wonder if there was a reaction on their part to 2001 Kingslaker series and all the controversy that came after that one. Right. So, and I'm sure every local fan base will have like a memory that's seared into their collective brains about like a series or a play or a game that was rightfully theirs. It weren't not for it. It was taken away by like this guy made the wrong call in the wrong time.

Personally, like when I'm watching basketball, I don't really think about a bad ref call for more than. a minute or two. Like, I think about... What about when you're watching the Sixers? No, honestly, like, well, I mean, I'm trying to think of, like, a really controversial Sixers call. You know, one thing that I, that comes to mind a lot is just, like, the fact that I think that the quest for getting these calls right,

and this is slightly different than whether or not, like, Trey Young should or shouldn't be diving and, like, kicking out his legs or not. But in the quest for getting these things right, you spend so much time on it that you actually suck the joy out of any justice from it. Like, I'm not like, oh, great, I'm glad they, like, glad they really reversed that call. That was, like, five minutes ago.

I mean, you and I did, like, green rooms during the playoffs where, like, we would be on the air waiting for, like, the refs to finish, deciding whether a game was, like, over or not. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. And, like, if there's anything that, like, we don't want to be more than mad, it's, like, bored while mad.

Yeah. That's not a good place to be. I would much rather be, like, incandescent because a ref blew a call and then like let my naturally disintegrating memory like take care of that feeling then have it be for five minutes we're going to watch

like Matisse Thibel's finger on a ball but then maybe Malcolm Brogden's finger was on a ball and it just kind of like who touched it the last possible fraction of time before it goes out of balance like that to me is not watching sports yeah no it's it's not and I think we also like it's ironic

that like the replay has also gotten to this place where because not everything is replayed, um, you often get calls that wouldn't happen if they, in any other scenario, that would be called out of bounds in some cases. But like, you know, when you tap the ball off of somebody else's finger,

it usually hits their finger first, right? Like that stuff is just like, yeah, but, you know, it's kind of like in any playground that's out on the person who tapped it out. You know what I mean?

Unless there's like, somebody bobbles it or something, like, you know, has real contact with it in between. Speaking of all this end of game stuff and just the extension, did McCutcheon get into end of game, like review, coaches challenges and like what will be reviewable

and what won't? You know, speaking of disintegrating memory, I have to admit that in a press conference, I was very detailed and over an hour, I did have moments where, you know, I zoned out. I zoned out. It's okay.

It's something that I do. honestly, it's the human factor that I love about this podcast. We're not real much. Exactly, exactly. Unlike the replay machines, I'm just kidding. Those are also run by people and therefore flawed and all that stuff. But yeah, I don't think they did is what I will say. But it would be funny if all of this just led to more replay except like the replay is like, hey, did Tray Young stop in earnest or did each beer out of his natural path? to get, you know, a call on Matisse Stibel. Yeah. Yeah, right. Do you think this is going to lead to a defensive renaissance in the NBA? Like, do you think, yeah, do you?

So, like, do you think that, are there any specific defenders that you think will be, like, back in business? Or, like, you know, is Tom DeBito going to be, like, reestablish himself? I mean, I guess he already has, but as, like, the defensive mastermind of his era. Like, are there, are there, like, teams that you're. think on offense will suffer more greatly aside from the individuals but like who rely on this kind of chicanery

yeah I imagine like everybody in the league like Tom Thibodeau was just making me thing like everybody in the league is like the Alonzo Morning Jiff where their first pissed and they're like oh yeah because you know he's like part part of him is like oh yeah defense is back and the other part is probably just like man like Randall's

like that we just shave five or six points off of his average with with this too right so So it's, I think, I think, um, defenders, though, obviously have reason to be happy. Like, they are allowed to play defense. Um, you know, I don't, I wouldn't say Matisse Sibel, for example, is somebody who is, would be on a Renaissance because that would not be respectful to, you know, the current, uh, the Sons that he is on.

Yeah. Uh, he's, he's somebody I thought of, uh, Dylan Brooks is somebody I thought of, the Memphis Grizzlies in general, actually are really interesting because like, they foul a lot. they're young. Brooks and Jaron Jackson were like in the top five of fouling in the league. And a lot of it, especially Brooks, like in the playoffs, fouled out of games because Donovan Mitchell took advantage of the fact that he was overaggressive, came off of screens, paused, and then, you know, allowed Brooks to bump into him before taking some of these shots.

Some of those won't be fouls anymore. Not all of them. And that's where the rules get kind of interesting. And I'm like, so for example, that one, if Donovan Mitchell comes off a screen and he just pump fakes straight up, he's good, right? If he pump fakes to the side, like, has become common and is now considered one of those unnatural moves. And he is then, like, kind of in Dylan Brooks' natural landing space.

That is an offensive foul. And I'll wonder, like, I'm curious how much offensive players will actually continue to do this. And I think it'll probably depend on, like, how seriously it's called. Like, if you do actually get an offense foul just for the attempt at a grift, that probably just takes, like, the benefit out of it to even try. And I think that's what the league is hoping for. Like, one of the things I asked is, like, you know, how do you measure success? And Moni said that essentially, you know, like when moves like that happen, you know, there's like a group of 15 guys like basically former reps, like guys that we kind of know of, Joey Crawford, et cetera. Like he's the name that I remember, but like, you know, names that we all know of that are like, you know, that help advise.

And he would take successes like getting those plays down to a place where like there's just less, like, you know, there's like two or three of them a game that they're analyzing as opposed to like 15. So, you know, that's like where there is. I'm just, I'm like curious to see how offensive players, I guess, react to it. And there's like a ton of guys that that goes for. Yeah, you know, I kind of always probably wrongfully assumed that part of this, I mean, obviously, like, Tray Young has a very unique style of basketball. And like, I think I've grown to really appreciate it and quite like it when he's not playing against Philly. But like, you see some of the stuff he's doing.

and a lot of it might be actually just like the difference of his body type to the people who are screening for him and the people who are chasing him through screens or switching off of screens to defend him. And like, so there was a lot of plays that I saw cited as like Trey Young kind of dark arts where I'm like, yeah, but really that's just like a dude kind of like peeling around a screen and changing his like his speed a lot. Like that's not necessarily him like trying to gum up the works of the flow of basketball. that's actually like just his like his movements. This is just like you can't really like keep his like whole thing in a box, right? Yeah, they actually showed one that was really interesting of that was just exactly what

you described. And the point that they made was it was it was a shot that would actually end up still being a shooting foul for Trey where he came off of a screen, had Rolnato in a cage. and he paused, like he was going straight and he stopped, right? And Rala was running right behind him and he bumped into him. That is a case of Trey Young has naturally stopped, like... Take a look around.

Exactly. Yeah, he stopped because, you know, it's another thing they said. Like, they can't, you know, like, if a player wants to stop, he wants to stop. You don't get to interpret why, right? He has naturally stopped, like, in the direction that he was going. and NATO happened to be in that direction and he bumped into him, right? There's another case that they showed

of Steph Curry moving laterally so that he could get in the pathway of the defender who was chasing him but that defender was actually in correct position like he wasn't going to, like he was in a position to not, you know, steamroll Steph if Steph stopped. And actually the analogy they made was essentially like either,

you know, it's a foul if you get rear-ended by somebody just like that is an accident, that is a person who is, you know, driving behind you's fault. But if you change lanes right as somebody is about to, like, stop, you know, where you now are, like, that is not that person's fault. So that's, yeah, like, that's kind of like the way that they're looking at that one. So there's actually, like, if you look back at that Sixers series, like, there is still times, like, even with these rules that he would have annoyed the hell out of, out of you, out of Sixers

spans, out of, like, you know, Danny Green, Thibel, anybody else that had to, had to chase him around. Yeah, there was a, I think, if I remember correctly, that was the series where Trey Young was like in, like, full fast break stride running down the court with the ball. And just like, I think actually had like a pretty clear layup and just like stopped short on a dime. And Dwight Howard, like, leapt over him,

but also like tumbled into him and brought him down with him as he like tried to hurdle Trey Young. Yeah, this is like another thing that's kind of interesting about this. is like there's a lot of contact on those plays. Like it's like, you know, it's easy to say that this is like a, because I imagine the injury question was going to come up, but then I thought about it. And, and hey, it might have come up, disclaimer.

Sure. The, like, a lot of these plays that players were making, like, they're pretty dangerous, you know, like, they're not exactly built to, like, protect the offensive player. Like, the alternative of, like, you know, then of, like, not stopping in your tracks and just going to the rim and trying to draw a foul is probably going to garner the same amount or less contact or then you know what they're doing where they're actively like trying to get guys that are you know big and strong and and moving very fast to bump into them so the thing that i was going to say when i brought tray up before i got distracted

by my own kind of like bit of reverie about him going around screens was that i was always kind of operating under the assumption that some of this stuff about looking for contact and trying to especially get the type of fouls that you pointed out the getting fouled on a three point attempt that that was somehow being passed down from analytically minded front offices, which now at this point would be all the front offices pretty much. And in the original sort of moneyball conception of advanced analytics, there was this idea that it was smaller market teams trying to level the playing field with big market teams by looking for competitive advantages wherever they could.

But that has since sort of resulted in baseball. you've just got regular infield shifts where they're just got you can no longer really pull the ball because there's just five guys standing on one or three guys standing on one side of the infield. And in basketball, it's this over emphasis on threes and free throws and getting one or the other at the expense of pretty much like, you know, any normal fans like kind of enjoyment of basketball. I wonder whether or not like those same front offices that might, let's just hypothetically say, be like, hey, man, if you're going to go up and you can get a little contact, make sure you get a lot of contact so you can go to the line there from the three point

line. Like, do you think that there's like, what's the zag here? Like, do you think that the analytically minded front offices might be like, okay, now that the rules are like this, this is how we should start defending or this is the kind of shot we want? Do we think we'll see more like three levels scoring now, like back to the midrange? Maybe. That's a, that's interesting. Like, I could see if it becomes less advantageous to just be in the paint and try to trick guys. Well, first of all, I think we're just going to see more shots, right? Like, we're going to see less pump fakes.

We're going to see, like, guys just straight up pulling up. But I think, I mean, it could kind of lead anywhere. I think the biggest change would probably just be, like, defensively. Like, you can just be more aggressive than before. And I think that's great for, like, every defensive team, right? Because I was wondering, did you ever think that, like, part of the reason why this was happening was that defenders were trying to compensate for this new, waterfall of three-point attempts.

So, like, I'm just going to stand closer to this guy to try and make it harder for him to shoot a three-pointer. I'm not going to play off of him anticipating a drive. I mean, assume that he's going to shoot three. So then when I play closer, there's so much more incidental contact because he can come down and it can look like

I'm in his landing zone when, in fact, I'm just guarding him tightly. I'm kind of curious whether or not we'll see any kind of evolution in, like, perimeter defense, essentially. Yeah, yeah, I imagine we will. I think like, you know, hand checking will just be more common because that's one thing where, you know, like the hand checking rules now as they stand. It's, you know, if you impede somebody's progress while they're hand checking, it's a foul. But it's not naturally just a foul for hand checking. Like you can reach in and stuff. Like it's not. But the thing that happens is that when you reach in, guys hook you. And that's another thing that's going to be out of the rules. Like you can't you can't hook a guy and keep him with you. But if you'd do that and you're moving. So they do actually like impede your progress. That's actually going to be a side out. Like you can't hook him and then just go up for a shot in the way that like

Hardin does. They used a, used a Paul George example as well. That's kind of like that became like the new rip through after the actual rip through stop being allowed. So that's another, but that was that that was another adjustment to the fact that that was like a thing that you couldn't do anymore. Right. It's so funny that there is like a like in my garbage bag. It's like all these like bullshit moves that I have outside of like I'm in my bag like all my footwork moves and like all these like incredible like playmaking moves but it was like then there is the like I will hook your arm and drag you with me and then like gesticulate like I just got my rib broken I always hated that one. Oh yeah it's the worst. It's funny like yeah there is a bag and then there is like

legitimately like the garbage bag and like for a while we were I think I think players were too incentivized to to pull deep into their garbage bags which we shouldn't be doing guys we should be closing them and taking them outside. Yeah. And when possible recycle. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. What didn't they address?

Would you like to see change that we didn't change? What's a rule change that you feel like the NBA is begging for but didn't do? Like, I'm always going to have the same answer with this one charges. I don't care for them. I don't like them. Especially the one-on-one defender on a defense charge is different. different. Like if you are, you know, just playing really hard defense and you're staying in front of a guy and they just absolutely pummel you. Like that is, you know, that kind of veers into that football tackling territory actually. So I get that. But like the stepping under guy, like the, you know, off ball defense. Uh, charge. The Marcus Smart. Smart rules. Mark is smart. Dramon Green. Like, you know, guys who are, you know, like, yeah, smart's a grifter, right? Like, obviously. But like, it's become everyone. Then it's, it's actually like, it's a way that like greater players in the league survive. So I don't know if it, like, needs to completely go away.

Like, I like the fact that Kyle Lowry is, like, more valuable because of this. But at the same time, it's really dangerous. And also, like, why are we now, like, some of the coolest dunks ever just don't count as points? Right. That is not okay with me at all. Kind of along those same lines, I need these clear path files to go away. So I understand that they are an effort to. you know, not give up breakaway dunks, not give up transition points,

that there is probably a pretty easy equation to do about, especially if you're on the bonus, like foul a guy, send him to the line. It's, you know, at least there's a chance you might miss a free throw rather than get a transition bucket. But I feel like it is robbing us of like 75% of some of the most thrilling moments in a game, which is when there is this turnover and a team does get out on the break and you get to watch great playmakers going downhill and orchestrating a fast break bucket. I don't know why we're taking that away from basketball.

And I think that tactical fouling like that, I understand why coaches do it and I understand why it's preached and I understand why it's taught. But I do think that that's a real like, can you look at yourself in the mirror after doing that moment? Now, I thought it was particularly interesting that I noticed this more during the pandemic season more than anything. And I think that that is transition baskets are the things that kind of like the lifeblood of seeing a game in person. You know what I mean? That's like where you get that wave of energy going through a crowd when there's a steal and guys break. So I really think that like the league is crying out for more transition scoring in that way. and I wonder whether or not

that's going to be something they have to address sooner or later because if you just have a lot of like, oh, and he grabbed him at the half court and that's over. That cool play did not happen. It would very much play into their desire to have flow in the game

and that being like an important part of it. I almost wonder if we should just like, there should just be a rule or like an interpretive change. We could call it the Chris Paul rule where every time there is a tax, tactical foul. Every time a player

or a coach is using the rules as opposed to the rules being like just existing as like this framework that they don't like control it should just it should just not count like you should like anything anything

oh you want to foul a guy when the other team is down three so they that they can't get up a three point shot fuck you no you're not doing that like all of it all of it Because I think, like, the best version of basketball that you see in a game, like, in an actual gymnasium, usually corresponds, like, pretty well with pickup rules. And I think pick up rules are basically just like, don't be annoying. Well, it's like, you know.

Like pick up rules are an honor system. You know what you mean? Like, I understand why we cannot have call your own fouls in the NBA. but when you make people kind of govern themselves and be like, if you're going to call that, I'm going to call it on the other end or whatever. You know, like it's a lot more equitable or you have a fight.

I mean, look, be a great button on this thing about like basketball being a contact sport that needs less violence. Which kind of takes us away from nonviolent winter sports which are the origins of the game. I think it'll be really interesting. Keep an eye out. Like, sometimes it's hard to find reasons to watch preseason other than checking out rookies and stuff.

Like, keep an eye out because I think Mani McCutcheon alluded to in the preseason, we're going to start to see these things, start being instituted, start being rolled out. And checking out, like, and seeing, like, what players seem mad about this? What players seem to be excelling despite this? You know, like, what's Trey Young going to do when 25% of his moves are now banned in the NBA? Like, what, like, how are guys going to evolve? of how are guys going to change? I actually think that Trey, you could call these the Trey Young

rules, I think he's going to be fine. Like, I think he's a really creative player and a really, like, inventive, like, shot maker that, like, he doesn't need to do this. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some statistical shrinkage on his part, though. Yeah, the interesting thing is that, like,

this does impact the higher level scores, because honestly, a lot of these moves just take creativity and they're very difficult to pull off in the moment. And they also kind of, like, require you to have a certain amount of leeway. So I think, like, aside from, like, the stars, the other players who probably be impacted by this the most

or just, like, the straight up and down shooters who are just not going to draw those fouls anymore. But, yeah, watch for it. Watch for what the players do, too, like, in terms of just their adjustments. Watch for defensive players. I think, like, one of the things that was asked is, you know, like, how do you deal with flopping now?

Like, if offensive fouls are going to be called more, you might get more flopping. Like, you know, just any, rule change has unintended consequences. I hope that the intended consequences are fulfilled and that we just don't see these types of plays in basketball anymore.

But there will be other things that happen as a result of this too. Yeah. I mean, we talk about flow of the game. I think also like the competitive spirit of the game or just like the vibe with which the game is played is also something I've noted in the past, especially with guys like Luca, who really browbeat officials,

which is totally part of the game. But some of the guys who are going to be affected most by these rule changes are the dudes who like to have the most expressive dialogue possible with referees throughout the game. So Chris, Chris and Trey

and Hardin and Luca who are in constant contact with refs giving them their feedback in the suggestion box. We could see some tease, we could see some objections, or maybe we could see them just be like I'm turning over a new leaf and I'm just going to stoically play my game.

Stoic, Luca, I love it. Well, we want good vibes this year. That's all. Yeah, let's hope. Good vibes basketball. Sir, we'll be back next week. We'll probably be hitting on the wolves as that story evolves, you know, pending some bend information. I hope you have a great weekend. Hope everybody has a great weekend. Thanks for listening to The Answer. We were produced by Isaiah Blakely this week.