The Ringer NBA Show - Who Will Win the NBA Cup Final? Plus, Trading Season Is Underway, Featuring the Schröder Trade | Real Ones

Episode Date: December 17, 2024

Howard is joined by the legend Raja Bell to talk predictions! With the NBA Cup final approaching, they give predictions and talk about what being in the final tells them about the Bucks and Thunder (7:00). After, they talk about the potential impacts from the Schröder trade (26:20), and give their forecasts on the unofficial start of the trade season and the players they’d like to see dealt (38:20). Then, they end the show with a mailbag about the winner mentality and the difference between offense in football and in basketball (46:45). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Howard Beck Guest: Raja Bell Producer: Clifford Augustin Additional Production Support: Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Look, it's not that confusing. I'm Rob Harvilla, host of the podcast 60 songs that explain the 90s, except we did 120 songs. And now we're back with the 2000s. I refuse to say aughts. 2000 to 2009. The Strokes, Rihanna, J-Lo, Kanye, sure. And now the show is called 60 songs that explain the 90s, colon the 2000s. Wow.

That's too long a title for me to say anything else right now. Just trust me. That's 60 songs that explain the 90s. in the 2000s, preferably on Spotify. It's the real ones. Howard Beck, senior writer at The Ringer. Back from a brief minivocation with me. It's a guy who once dropped 25 points for the Yakima Sun Kings.

In a 105 to 83 route of the Sioux Falls Sky Force, Rajabelle. Okay, okay. Hey, Howard, that's why you're a pro, because I fully intended to come on here and give you a lot of shit about the intros I was getting in your absence and then here you go. I can't let Pina do that to me. I can't let Pina just one up me, two up me, like just hitting the fans, hitting the listeners, hitting you with all these like deep dives into the Raja Bell canon.

I can't let Pina do that to me on this show. Like, thank you, Michael Pina. Thunder Stolen. Thank you, Michael Pita for subbing in for the last few shows. Roger, this wasn't even just that. Like, I listened and I was like, ooh, that's, that's a good, that's a good good stick. And then I had multiple people on Blue Sky basically coming at me going like, hey man, Peter's done pretty well with you out.

You know, those stats, with Roger's stats, been pretty fun. What you're going to do, Beck? Oh, my God. You got Wally Piped. Almost, almost. Almost Wally Piped. How was your trip? Dude, we miss you.

Now, I mean, Michael's great. Michael's great. But we miss you. How was the trip? It was good times. I mean, we did it like briefly. Yeah, no, no. Phenomenal.

Yeah. So my daughter had been studying overseas in Spain, as you know. And so my wife and I went to go pick her up. We spent a little bit of time there. Then we bounced over to Paris for a few days. I'd never been to Paris in December before. I hadn't been there actually in like over 15 years anyway. Last time I was there was for a Knicks preseason game, if you can believe.

Wow. It was cold and gray in December in Paris. But it's still Paris. it's still magical. It was amazing. We had a nice time. And now I'm just shaking off the jet lag. No doubt, man.

Well, welcome back, dude. We missed you. It was great intro, dude. I mean, I came in. I had a whole thing I was going to do. You threw me right into ad lib mode, dude. You took my thunder right away. Good for you.

Appreciate it. You know, Pina had really plumbed the depths of, like, your MBA stuff. And I'm like, I can't if I, like, there's plenty left. there, I'm sure, but I needed to go a little deeper. So I had to go back to your, by the way, folks, that was for the for the youngans out there. That was a CBA reference and not the collective bargaining agreement, the Continental Basketball Association. Those were bus rides. Those were play on a Wednesday night in Yakima and put both teams, both teams on a charter bus and drive up like three hours back to Boise, Idaho and play again on a Thursday.

night. Like get into Boise that morning and play again on a Thursday. That's what that was. That was, there was some good basketball. Some great players in that league, Howard. Wasn't meant for everybody, though. It's funny. So the blurb I found from this game, Raja, it has, this is like an AP style. It's, I think it was sports ticker. And so it's Roger Bell scored 25 points. And David Vantrappel added 15 as the Yakima Sun Tings crushed the Sioux Falls.

Bell made 10 of 13 from the floor. Look at that. And five of eight from the foul. line. And Vantraple and 7.6. You know what's funny about, well, D.V. was like a walking triple double in that. He wound up playing with the, with the Wizards for for a long time and then had a great coaching career and still, still probably going to be back soon. But, but I got drafted into that. Like, unknowingly, somebody just kind of called and was like, hey, by the way, you got drafted into the CBA. And I was like, what? And I went out there that year. And we had

like Willie Mitchell, who had been national player of the year in high school in my graduating class. and a couple guys. So I didn't play on that team for any significant amount of time, maybe the first month or so. And so I had really kind of questioned like, yo, man, this isn't looking like I have a future in this. And then I just got an opportunity and something clicked. So it's a pretty interesting story.

If I could ask, what did you make in the CBA? $7,000, $10,000? for how many make months or games? Man, I don't, 40 some games maybe, Howard. This was over the course of, yeah, I mean, I had to live at home when I was done with that. In the summertime, I had to go back and live at home. We didn't, I didn't make any money. And then the second year I played in the CBA, it folded mid-season.

So we were all stuck with no paycheck for the last month. and then no trip home paid for from Yakima, Washington. So it got pretty gross at the end there. But it really tested whether or not you, it tested your medal for whether or not you thought you could be a pro doing it, right? Yeah. By the way, folks, that was in 2000, the year 2000. So it's not like this is, I mean, I know it's ancient history by some people's standards,

but like $7,000 wasn't anything in that year either. Like that's, that is below poverty wages. So, yeah, it wasn't, it was, listen, I could be, I could be wrong, it could have been more like 12,000. I don't, I don't remember, but it wasn't. Yeah. No, you were not. This is why we have the stories about like John Stark's, you know, a bag in groceries or

whatever it was before, you know, latching on with the Knicks, right? Because he was, he was CBA too, right? So, right, in an earlier era there. Before we jump in, real quick again, thank you, Michael Pina for, for subbing in for the last few shows. Thank you to producer Ashley who's with us here today. Subbing in for producer Cliff. Welcome, Ashley. You'll all be hearing from her later when we get to the mailbag.

We are on our normal schedule this week. We're back on Friday. We are off next Tuesday, Christmas Eve, but then back on December 27th, Friday after Christmas. And folks, we're just weeks away from the return of Logan Murdoch. So that's exciting. Early January, he will be back in this chair. Uh, Raja, we are hours, just hours away from the final of the NBA Cup.

I can see the excitement in your face. I should not be snarky right off the bat here. Should I? Like, that's bad. I should just just scratch that. The NBA Cup final is just hours away, Raja. Bucks, thunder. I think this is actually a great outcome for the NBA.

Like I get it. No LeBron or Steph or Kevin Durant. Everybody is always saying, oh, they need these guys for a tent pole event. I actually think this is a great outcome in that. We have a legit young contender in the Thunder with a lot of great up-and-coming players, and Sheaildes Alexander's already a perennial MVP. He's no longer up-and-coming. He's just here.

And they're playing against a recent-ish champion in the Bucks and a recent-ish former two-time MVP in Janus, who's playing like an MVP again. I'm actually excited for this game. I must stipulate because I'm me. I would be excited for this game regardless of whether there was a cup on the line. It's just going to be a good matchup. But I think this is a good outcome tonight, Raj. I do too. I agree with you.

Last week when we were talking about it, we kind of touched on who, or I touched on who winning this championship would mean the most two out of the four teams that were in the semis. And I had come to the conclusion that it would mean more to Atlanta and Houston. But, you know, I too love the matchup. And I'd make a case for it meaning a lot for Milwaukee. Just from where they've been the last year or so,

The experiment with kind of Janus and Dame, it didn't really bear fruit last year. Chris Middleton's back in the mix. I'm not exactly sure what they are. But I think at this point in the season, there's probably a little of that going around their locker room too, just trying to figure out, even in the front offices, like, what are we? What is the ceiling for this? You know, having the success in the tournament and getting a big win, that can be helpful. It can be helpful for morale. It can be helpful for, you know, projection.

down the line. It could be helped for stability. I think it could mean something to them, honestly. I don't know that they win it. We'll get into that, but I love the match-up, and I think I'm taking a little bit of a change of path from who it could mean something for. I think it could mean something from a walking in a way that I didn't see

last year. The conventional wisdom would be that a team like the Thunder, young, just starting to, you know, break through, you know, led the West, I think maybe led the League, led the West actually, and in Wins last season, widely favored to win the West this season. It's not like they're not on the radar already anyway,

but they haven't won anything yet, and they are very young. And so conventional wisdom would be the Thunder's the team that needs this, like there's a little stepping stone, just like the Pacers even making it to the Cup final a year ago. We saw, oh, well, that's a good moment for them and a learning experience, you know, pressure games, little different stakes than a normal regular season game.

And maybe that did pay dividends in their deep playoff run last spring. So the thunder should be the answer here. But I think, yeah, I think I'm with you on this. Like, I think the bucks almost need this more in a way. It's been such a wild ride the last couple of seasons. Coaching changes and injuries and just a lot of doubts. And then, you know, multiple rounds of speculation about what it means for Janus's future and does he hang on there? and like again, I will be the first to say I don't think the NBA Cup as a new award,

I don't think it means that much ultimately. But I do think to the extent that teams mark their seasons based on just certain, you know, just just certain markers, just certain, you know, whether it's your record after 10 games or 20 games, or whether it's how your new players are clicking with it. Just winning something. We've created the stakes. We created this out of thin air, but once it's there,

you want to win it. Yonis clearly wants to win it. And this is a team that they've now won, I think, 12 with their last 15 after whatever, two and eight or whatever they started. We were all burying them. And I feel like they're back. And like this would kind of like certify that,

maybe even just psychologically for themselves. Yeah, no doubt. So I'm watching a high school game last night of the team. there's a team that was playing my son's team. My son was out with the thigh bruise. But this team was a really good, older physical team from Miami. They were supposed to win, even if my son was in the game. But my son's team was hanging around.

Like they were playing them well. They were into the fourth quarter. This was a game. And it was a game all the way until about the four minute point in the fourth quarter where a timeout took place. And then this older, more physical team just came out and had a lock-in moment. And they ran away with the last four minutes of the game. And I use that as a comparison to like an NBA team.

That happens from game to game in a game, but it also happens throughout the course of a season. And you don't when you're going to have that kind of crystallizing moment, and you don't know what that moment is going to necessarily look like, what it's going to be. But you can have that moment where, man, we all kind of thought that we could. Maybe we all didn't like definitively buy into that.

And we weren't absolutely sure. And it could be a cup victory that does that for a team like the Bucks. just don't know. And so for a team like them, for all the reasons you just expressed, like getting a win, the more moments you have like that, the more opportunity you have to fall into that moment of crystallization. We could do this. The way they've played for the last month or so, the bucks kind of looked like the contenders that we would have penciled them in as based on their talent and accomplishments alone before they get off to that horrendous start. And so we're now at that point where it's okay, did we, were we hasted to react to the, whatever, like I say, I think two and eight start.

Were we too hasty to react then and bury them? Do we now need to be careful about saying, okay, they're back, cool, awesome, this looks great. They're contenders again. Where are you on your just a general assessment of the bucks? And again, you know, it's still mid-December. There's a lot of season to play yet. And we're a couple months out from the trade deadline. A lot will change.

We'll get into that a little bit later in the show, too. where are you on the bucks with respect to the Celtics obviously being defending champs, the Cavaliers having just an absolutely incredible season. I saw them here in Brooklyn last night. The Knicks are in the mix there. Sixers are still trying to pick themselves up off the mat. Not burying them yet. Where are the bucks in all this?

I think I still would have them in a tier probably below, maybe a tier below Boston and Cleveland in terms of my belief right now, like in the Eastern Conference, I talk a lot of times, a lot of times on this show about having guys in the playoffs that we can give this ball to and get out of the way and get us a bucket. They've got that.

They've got two dudes like that. What worries me about them right now is just overall defensive chops and philosophy and what that's going to look like when you do have a piece on the floor that is going to be sought out in those type of games when we have more time to game plan

for finding the mismatch, identifying it and just kind of getting after it in Dame and what our game plan is going to be around that and how we can fortify the second line of defense behind him. I think that's an issue. They're sitting kind of middle of the pack right now defensively. I don't think they're prolific enough

offensively to be a middle of the pack defensive team. So I like where we're going and I can see it now in a way that I couldn't see it necessarily when they started the way they did. And we could be having another conversation in a couple weeks, Howard. But like right now, I think I have them just below that top tier of teams that I think I trust more in the Eastern Conference. Janus is absolutely just wrecking people. That's what inspires belief for me.

And it's not that he ever really fell off since his MVP seasons. When you're at that height, even like a couple percentage points off on your shooting or a little bit of a dip in efficiency, a little bit of a dip in rebounding and assist. It sometimes looks like, oh, okay, it's not as great as his MVP years. So it's not like he ever, like, really slipped. He's had the postseason injuries that have really crippled them in their postseason runs. But, Yonis right now is, like, I got, so Tim Bond, Tempts from ESPN hit me last night with the first of the MVP straw polls. So I actually had to think about it again, like, oh, God, here we go. Like, what's the pecking order right now?

And like the bucks have only recently revived themselves. So it's even in the, even in the context of like a 25 game sample or whatever, I don't want to overdo Yonis as a candidate because the wins always matter in my mind on the MVP race. But like, Janus is absolutely having a MVP caliber season. And if the bucks do finish top three or four in the east, if the more recent version of them is the version,

he's going to be right in that we're going to be debating him versus SGA versus Yokic versus Tatum versus Luca, right? Like, it's not like he's ever really fallen out of those discussions by a lot, but the, you know, depending on where the bucks have been in the standings, it's caused Janus's candidacy to fluctuate, but he's, he's killing it.

He was an awesome game the other night in the semis over the weekend. That was a great game. Yeah, yeah. I think that Janice is one of those dudes that just because he's so physically dominant, I think you can take for granted what that,

looks like because the aesthetics aren't always the the same level of highlight as somebody out there handling the ball all the time and hitting the big three with a hand in his face and falling away or crossing somebody up. But I just, you know, size, strength and just efficiency from a guy. I mean, those are the things that become hard to guard if you're a defender. like defenders can sit down and guard moves and and you know tough contested shots

like we we'll take our chances with those great players are going to hit them sometimes I've said before it doesn't matter what you do they'll hit them anyway but but we feel better in those spaces Howard I tell my young son this hey man make a move and go by a dude don't fuck around no need to go into your bag like we know you got a bunch of moves

but the more you make moves the more that defenders sitting down thinking he can get a piece of that. Like, just go by. And Janice plays that style of ball, which is really difficult, really, really difficult to game plan for, especially as it gets later in the season when bodies are banged up and people don't have the same level of juice because he's so big and he's so strong. But he's not going to be, like we've seen this. It's got to be his running mate. Like when they were at their best, he had a run inmate doing that consistently. Dames doing it right now. But it's got to keep up. For me, that's,

always going to be aside from the defense and I really do believe that like they just have to continue to get like fractionally better defensively throughout the course of a season. If we're sitting here talking about like a top third team defensively, I think we have some action as a Milwaukee Bucks team. But but he is going to need that offensive help and he's going to have to have that number to be a consistent weapon in a way that can support what he does. It's interesting. This is year two with Dame and granted it's still early in the season and things will fluctuate. But right now, Janus is on pace for a career high

and field goal attempts at 20.8 per game, which is two more shots per game than he was taking last year at the first season with Dame. And again, this is a 23 game sample for Janus versus a full season. But he's also at the moment, leading the league in scoring at 32.7 points a game.

He's never won a scoring title and not causing any dip in everything else. He's still averaging, you know, six assists, a little over 11 rebounds. and he just looks really aggressive right now. He just looks hungry. He just looks like a guy who's kind of tired of, you know, taking the back seat to everybody for the last couple of years as they've slipped and other guys have risen.

I like all that. What do you think of just the match of tonight? The Thunder are an incredible defensive team, and they've got a lot of guys to throw in Janus's way and to try to bottle up Dame. What's the most intriguing just kind of chest match there in terms of whether it's the Thunder trying to throttle Janus or what the what the bucks are going to do to try to

slit on SGA and Jalen Williams what's got your eye yeah I think you know this is this is going to be very similar to what I was talking about in the games from last week but it is a kind of a contrast in styles like with you with what Yonis wants to do to score the ball and with what Oklahoma City's Achilles heel can be at times is it's just protecting that paint in that way like and that that protected. Their rim protection numbers are actually really good. But I mean, can you stop him in the way that you typically stop everyone else around that rim and the bucks as a whole? Can you keep them off of that offensive glass? Can you can you control your board and paint in a way that's going to let what you do offensively win the game? I think I would take OKC in the game, but I think that's the tail of the tape of the game. Yeah. And do you have a feel for, it sounds like you were hit to get this earlier. It sounds like you were here to get this earlier. It sounds like you favor the thunder in this?

Yeah, I think I'm going to take OKC tonight. There's really good, man, they're really solid. Their depth, their versatility for a lot of reasons. The caveat to that would be if you can't control that monster and he goes for a 45 and that's a punishing 45 around the rim that could change the math. But I'm going to take OKC, how would you? My head says the thunder.

My just read of watching the bucks and Janus, as I was saying, watching them on Saturday the way they're playing, the way he's playing. It just looks like he really wants this thing. And there's a part of me that's just swayed by the idea that the slightly more veteran team, not slightly more, they're the more veteran team, that's trying to reestablish their championship credentials. Again, I don't think winning the NBA Cup means that you're now, it doesn't change what you're,

prospects are for next spring it's a long way to go i just feel like there's something there like there is a need like internally there for them to feel like we're back and maybe this does it and um i hate to default to the who wants it more NBA you know assessment um i think they both want it um there's just something about the look in janus's eye uh it's swaying me right now um my head says the thunder just based on all the obvious, right? Talent, depth, youth. They're just so hard to deal with at both ends. But yeah, I'll go contrarian. The other thing that hit me over the weekend, Raja,

watching those two games. Now, I don't want to get all conspiratorial here. I'm not making any accusations. But with the theater lighting in the arena in Vegas, it's a little hard to see what the crowd is like. But when they had close-ups, you could tell, even with the darkened crowd, you could tell that there were a lot of empty seats, especially in the early game, which was, I think, a 130 local start.

So that's tough. I mean, it wasn't, I think last year it was like a Tuesday, so at least it was a weekend game. But, you know, fans have short notice to try to get to Vegas to go watch their favorite team. Otherwise, you're just relying on the tourists and the locals. But it looked like a lot of empty seats, especially in the early game. I pinged a friend of mine who was in the arena, who shall remain anonymous, just, and I just asked two questions, were these games close to sold out and was the vibe any better or more intense

than a year ago for the semis? And the answers were no and no. And I don't know how big of a concern that is for the NBA yet. But it's just kind of something to keep an eye on. Like it was pretty clear, like the intensity was not quite there. It was more so for the evening game for the Thunder and Rockets. But it looked like the crowd's a little soft. And you can tell on the broadcast anyway, just watching from home. Because you know there are times where I can barely hear the announcers on ABC or TNT sometimes for like a really intense regular season game or playoff game. There was never that.

It didn't sound like that. So I'm still curious about like just the, I guess the commercial viability of it. I've seen people posting about tickets. And so I click that real quick just to take a look. And like you can get on the resale market. There's tons of like under 100 each, you know, even under 50 tickets available. for the championship game tonight. You know, just something to keep an eye on.

It is because, I mean, you know, I won't come from a league perspective. I'll just come from the players' perspective on this. Like we like to play in front of packed houses. At the end of the day, I mean, we're Hoopers, but you're entertainers too, you know, and I guess if you're working with the league as a player representative

and you're asking about the product that is that in-season tournament, you know, you want those players to feel like, You know, not just the financial incentive, which is a big deal, but like you want them to feel like that's supported and, and, you know, you don't want to go out there playing in front of like Summer League audiences. You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. And that's, I hate to say it, that is kind of actually not even that. It was more like almost like post-COVID audiences where it was like not the empty buildings, but when they were like, you know, letting people back in, but they still wouldn't allow, wouldn't allow full capacity. Because summer league crowds are actually really intense sometimes, right? Like they can be, right? Mid to late. a week, not so much. But yeah, it's weird because it's a neutral site game. It's not quite a sedate. And again, I wasn't there.

I'm watching from home. But you can pick up on the crowd intensity a little bit even from the TV. It feels a little bit more like an all-star crowd. And that's not a great thing. The championship game last year had the added juice of it being the Lakers and LeBron and Vegas being a second, you know, basically part of the L.A. market. So I am curious to see tonight what the crowd looks and sounds like for, for this game.

But again, like, I'm not going to say, like, oh, this is, it's bad that LeBron or Steph isn't there. Like,

I think this is a great matchup in terms of the basketball, in terms of what these teams might be next spring, in terms of getting the thunderer and bucks. Like, both of them have a decent number of national games, but I think they're both like in that 10, 11 range ranking wise,

in terms of number of national games. So getting these two teams, smaller market teams on national TV for a marquee event, I think that's all a win for the league. Yeah. I mean, it's, It's not a negative in any real way.

And again, it's going to take a few years for this to, right, this experiment for people to catch on, for people to buy in, for for you to see if it really takes off in the way that you wanted to. I'm just going to go back to the players. Like, you know, we talk. And if your team wasn't in it, you know, you're asking people, yo, what was that? What was that vibe like out there? How to feel like that, you know, those are conversations when you're sitting around and pick up gyms in a summertime unlacing your shoes and, And you want that to be a positive for them too, right? So like figuring that out is important.

The other thing that happened over the weekend, the unofficial start of trade season. We hit December 15th on Sunday. And that's the unofficial start because that's when most players who are signed over the summer are eligible to be traded. So that's kind of how we mark to start a trade season. It doesn't usually start off with a bang. I don't want to say that this was actually a bang, but a mini bang.

You know, Thomas Bright. gets traded from Miami to Indiana. And Dennis Schrooter, the Nets finally are starting officially their tank job, trading Schroeder to the Warriors. I love this. I think there was a lot of this that you could kind of see coming, certainly on the Nets side of it. And I love the fit for the Warriors.

What did you think of the Shruder trade? Yeah, I liked it. I mean, we talked about the Nets, I don't know, when was that months ago, about their little early season success in what they were rooting the tank. I think we both, yeah, like, come on, don't screw that up. So from there, yes. And then from the Warriors, like, I love the Dennis Shorter fit. I'm a Dennis Schroeder fan.

I think he's a, you know, I think he's a good player. Like, he's got some stuff with him at times, you know, and he's had his moments that weren't glorious. But I like him as a player and I like him as a fit. I like his grit. I think he's shooting, what, 38% from three this year. I average 18 a game. He's a pro.

You could drop him in with the second unit. You could play him at times with Steph and them. He's not going to get in the way. He knows his way around the court as a pro. Like, I think it's a really good fit for Golden State. Currently the other day was actually hinting at the idea of starting him. Like, we won't know until Thursday night when the rest of the – it's really weird because because of the Cup, there's no games tomorrow night, Wednesday.

So Thursday, it'll be his warrior's debut. And I don't know. What do you think of the idea of him possibly starting alongside Steph? I mean, I definitely, like to me, the biggest value is obviously you need another primary ball handler type, another playmaker and somebody to take some of the pressure off Steph and get the defense off of him a little bit. So having them in there together, I see, but also like you don't need the offense dropping off a cliff every time Stefan Dremont go to the bench either. So I'm not, it'll be interesting to see what his best use or role ends up being there. But Kerr did kind of hint at the possibility of him starting alongside Steph. I have no beef with that.

I mean, you know, the time will tell how he fits best with your team, and you won't know that until we get out there, roll the balls out and kind of see what it looks like. But on paper, the idea of him playing alongside Stefan Drey, I love it. Again, I think he's a guy who plays really heady. I think he's got a lot of headiness to his game on top of his skill level. And when you're playing with those two, I think that's the number one thing you've got to be able to do, is think your way through it, see it the way they see it the way they see.

it. I think he's got the ability to do that. And it does take some pressure off the step. You get him off of that ball. He doesn't have to work as hard. Or he can work just as hard, but just not have to do it with the defense loaded to him. He can do it behind the defense in a way that gets him open for those, you know, for those looks or creates the advantage on the catch with a live dribble and a defender closing out at you. Those are, you know, the more of those that you can get as an offensive player like Steph, the better. And this allows you to do that. Schroeder's having just statistically his best season since he was runner up for six man of the year with the Thunder back in in 2019-20. He averaged almost 19 points a game.

Then he's averaging 18.4 now. So that would be the third highest of his career. 6.6 assists would be a career high for him. I know he's been a guy who's been kind of considered a little hardheaded at times and a little difficult for some of his teams in the past, especially when he was younger, especially in those Atlanta years. But I feel like the feistyness is still there. there. There's a swagger there. That dude believes in himself, you know, to the nth degree, which is a good thing when, you know, channeled correctly, right? And now he's joining a team where like, all right, this is established, like, they're not the Warriors of 2017-18,

but this is an established championship caliber team with a multiple-time MVP, a multiple-time champions, and a veteran cast. And, you know, it's not like he's going to come in thinking he's going to run the place from day one. So I think they're getting him at the right time and in the right context of a team too. So I think it's an easy fit. I mean, I know like the one thing you would throw out there possibly is just like, well, the Warriors are not a big pick and roll team. He's really effective pick and roll player. The Warriors are a ball movement team. Schroeder sometimes is probably going to hold on to it a little bit too long. But in that sense, he's almost like a better, more veteran version of Jordan Poole when Jordan Poole had his best season with them. That's an awkward

analogy, but like there's a little bit of similarity there just in terms of like the role he could play and the effectiveness he could have. But he's an older, more mature version of that. Yeah, look, you're only a, you're not a heavy pick and roll team. A lot of that is personnel driven. You've had guys, you know, like

Steph Clay and Draymond and they play a certain style until you get a piece that is really, really good in pick and roll. And then, I mean, you're not going to change your DNA as a team, but you're like Steve Kerr and those guys are good enough to put him in enough of it to get something out of him, right? Like, you know who he is as a player.

and he's good enough to your point and he's at a point in his career where he is going to, you know, he's matured enough to figure out how to fit in around those guys. But you ain't bring somebody in to not get the value out of them and what they do best.

And so I'd imagine they figure out a way to play a little pick and roll. Even if it's when, you know, steps off the floor or whoever's off the floor, they're going to get him in some actions that he likes as well. I just also like that the Warriors are still being aggressive here, right?

Like, we know they did everything they could. People might argue the point, but like I think they did everything they could within reason to try to get Lowry marketing over the summer to try to get Paul George. Dennis Schrooter is not that and they might still be, I assume they probably still are shopping for another big piece between now and the trade deadline. But they didn't have to give up anything of massive value to get Schrooter. Like this is a nice interim upgrade. You know, the trade D Anthony Milton who was hurting out for the season anyway. They have a pretty deep

rotation as we've talked about before and as I've written about before for the ringer.com. So, and they, you know, and they sent out a few second rounders. Like, this was, this was a nice kind of short-term, addition. And Schroeder can still be retraded. There's new wrinkles in this CBA where even if you were aggregated in a trade, you can be retrated before the trade deadline in another aggregation trade. So they've got the ability to either retrade him. They've still got, you know, Pajemski and Moody.

and Trace Jackson Davis and Comingo, of course, like they've got all these pieces, and I think they own most of their picks. There's still a lot they could do, and I appreciate the fact that, in contrast to say, like the Lakers who seem to just be sitting on their hands still with, you know, and sinking fast, the warriors are still trying to do what they can to make sure that Steph's final years are meaningful. And I don't think they're done, Raja. Like, I, you know, it's always hard to get a deal done in this league, and especially

out with the second apron, but this might make Pajemski more expendable. You know, he's, it's, you know, Schroeder's going to squeeze his minutes, I think, a little. Maybe they're more willing to move Pajemski, who was a guy who obviously they're high on as a young player and probably would prefer to keep. But he's struggling this season. I don't know. I like that they seem to be still very much all in and focused on making the most of every season. Well, you know who else likes that?

Steph Curry. No, I mean, because we, you know, you just talked about the Lakers and we've talked about at length, the LeBron experience when you have him and you, and as an organization, continuing to show him in good faith that you are willing to make moves in an effort to continually get him what he needs to get closer to that championship. And that can be frustrating for players like Steph and like LeBron, not saying that Steph was ever really frustrated with Gold, in state, but showing them that you will, even if we can't swing the big one and we made efforts

to do those and they didn't come to fruition, hey, listen, let us, let us show you that we'll move around these fringes in a way that continues to get us better and let us show you the plan in case one of these bigger fish becomes available again, how this move then gets us closer to that move, right? And so then you're just showing that player over and over again that you're in earnest, you are working towards, you know, getting them to where they want to be, right? Like this, and that's important. People discount that when it comes down, when it comes down to these grades, deciding whether they're going to be a lifelong warrior or a lifelong son or what have you.

Like, those feelings that have accrued over the course of time, they matter. Has this team done everything? They told me they would, have they? And that matters. From the net side of this, this is a no-brainer, obviously. as we said they were winning a little bit too much. They're still kind of in playoff range, but they're also in range of like,

now that you've pulled the plug and sent out Dennis Schrooter and probably more to come, you can turn the corner real quick and get into that, you know, bottom three slash top three for the lottery. And that's clearly where they're headed. And it's clearly where they needed to be, again, like last summer, they make that deal with the rockets to trade them,

some of the sun's picks that the Nets owned in order to get some of their own picks back from the rockets, from that hardened trade. So a quick reminder, which somebody else pointed out to me, this is really set up for a two-year tank because what the Nets did in that deal was they negated the swap rights that the Rockets had on their 2025 pick. So the Nets have their pick outright in 2025, thus the tank this year, try to get Cooper Flag or Dylan Harper, whoever. But in that same deal, they reacquired their 2026 first from the Rockets. So when you're going out of your way and giving up. potentially very valuable future sons picks from down the road to get your own picks back from Houston and it's 25 and 26. You've telegraphed where you're headed. Yeah, that's the plan. Yeah, that is the plan. They're going to be bad this season and they're probably going to be bad next season too. And then they'll try to turn it around after that. So that being the case,

I'm curious to see who goes next because there's got to be, there's got to be more to come here. Is it Dorian Finney Smith? Is it Cam Johnson? Is it Nick Laxton? I don't know what the market is for expiring Ben Simmons contract, but there's definitely more to come. Like the Nets could be central to the rest of trade season for the next two months. Yeah. I mean, that's interesting way to look at that, right? The Nets could be the reason ultimately somebody gets over the hump or not, right? Because of the situation they're in and what they're willing to get rid of.

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Trade season's open. Dennis Schrooter will probably not be the last one moved. We always hope for more than there actually is. And the second apron complicates things. And I don't really know how to read this trade season, given the restrictions and just all the difficulties of making a deal under this collective bargaining agreement. But something else is going to come.

And we can dream big. So who you got? Who would you like to see traded between now and the deadline early February? And where would you like to see that player? I don't really have aware. I mean, there are a lot of destinations. I've talked about this guy before. And I know contractually, I don't have all the answers to that.

That's not my bag. Like, I'm not. You're not spending like three hours of the trade machine every day. Like, shingering. That's not how I get down. I just see a skill set like it and plug it in. If only the NBA were that simple. If only we could just say, you know what?

That guy would fit really good over there. Why can't we just do that? Well, let me... But I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that right now, though. Zach Levine. Zach Levine. No, and it's...

You know, I don't know where the Bulls are going. I've been a Zach Levine fan for a long time. I've liked him since he was at UCLA. I just think that a guy like that who is versatile offensively, I know he needs the ball in his hands in a way, but I do think that if you play him with other pieces, you know, he falls into a category of NBA player where, you know, yeah, I got the ball in my hands because I'm not.

the best option with the ball in my hands at times where I'm at. But if you plug him into something where that's not the case, I think he figures that out. I think he's a good enough player to figure it out and add value, maybe not as your number one. And so I'd just like, I'd like to see him somewhere else. For sure. And, you know, for his flaws as a player or just for the injury history alone, which has been bad the last few years, the contract, like these are all things that make it difficult. But like the skill set and the size and everything I've ever heard, he's really good dude. I think he's a really easy fit in a lot of places.

All right. So since we're, you know, we're just living in fantasy land for the moment anyway. We've just burned. We've burned the fucking CBA. We've burned the second apron, the first apron,

a whole pile of aprons. There are no aprons left. There's no kitchen tools. We could just send him somewhere. Like, if you could just magically put him on somebody else's roster tomorrow, like, is there a spot that you think is on basketball alone?

Makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There are a few. I like the bucks. Yeah. Yeah, I like the bucks for him a lot. Probably impossible if we brought the CBA back into the conversation. But yeah.

We're assuming that we're cooking with no way. We're just burning our skin, right? Are we frying shit? What are we doing right now? Oh, no, no. We're baking? Our hair has just fried. Like, our eyebrows has singed.

Like, everything is gone. This was a freaking bonfire. There's oil spatter all over me right now. Yeah, I like him with the bucks. Off the top of my head, I'm going other places. I mean, I'd like him in Golden State. Yeah. You know, it's just, man.

Lakers? Yes, absolutely. But we did this before once. It was a long time ago where I think it might have been Logan doing it, where he was giving me teams. And because of what you said, like skill set length, you can drop that into a lot of places and it works. But I think when I'm talking about,

I really like Milwaukee for him. And Chris Middleton, they were so good when Chris Middleton, when they had a wing that could go get buckets and do some things offensively. And I just, for me, that's the one. I probably like that one the best. Yeah. And Middleton is still, like he's back, but he's still kind of, you know, banged up and trying to get himself back together.

And it's just, it's, they need another guy for sure. I hate to go to the well on this one. And he's the name that's already dominating early, you know, trade speculation anyway, but it's just, it's too obvious to avoid. And I've been on this train for a while. So I'm just going to say Jimmy Butler's name again. And Jimmy to the Warriors just feels like a really nice marriage if they can figure out how to make that happen. This is nothing against Jimmy, by the way. This is nothing against the heat, by the way. Like, I want to see great players, especially great players who are in their twilight years. And 35 is twilight in this league. I want to

see great players on great teams with a chance of a deep playoff run. I don't want to see them in places where it seems like they have just stalled out. And the heat have stalled out over the last couple of seasons despite the unlikely run to the finals a couple years ago. Like they're just, I cannot see a path forward there. They couldn't reach extension. They couldn't reach terms on an extension over the summer. He is potentially a free agent, although he'd be opting out of 52 million, which I don't know that he's getting on the open market in this under this CBA environment. But it just seems like we're getting close. And, you know, ESPN had the report recently about, you know,

teams that he would possibly be interested in that was immediately disputed by, by his agent. But it just feels like there's so much smoke here that the fire is, is not far behind. The same fire that just burned the CBA, I believe. We started the fire. I'm with you on Jimmy. I'm with you on Jimmy, though.

I, you know, this is one of those where, like, hey, no hard feelings. It's been a great ride. this is this is in everyone's best interest right like you get a chance to to play for some stuff you deserve that you've been you know you've been a great pro for so long now and and we you know get to get to see this thing in a clearer way really get to assess who we are and do what we need to do to get out of this weird spot with no path forward that Howard just laid out and they are clearly in that so I'd like that um then we we had to burn aprons for that to happen too though right And Jimmy's still a badass.

Like last night, heartbreaking loss for them the overtime to the pistons. But Jimmy finished with 35, 19 rebounds and 10 assists, four steals. That's crazy. In 44 minutes, like, the dude is just a dog. And, like, it's, I still think he's best as a 1B or a number two or whatever. And the heat, unless they're going to somehow magically find, you know, that other star,

and I just don't see that happening. It makes more sense to flip Jimmy. And Jimmy next to Steph and Draymond would be super fun. I mean, I'd be interested to see some of that practice. I don't practice a lot anymore, but Jimmy and Draymond could be combustible. I don't know if they know each other. That could be interesting. Hey, look, everybody thought that Draymond and Chris Paul were going to kill each other, right?

So I think they'd figure it out. I think there'd be mutual respect there. But yeah, that's a lot of intensity under one roof. The other one I kicked around, I'll just hit this for a minute. Cam Johnson to the Kings? in a deal built around Kagan Murray, who I feel like, I know it's too soon just like, you know, say that Kegan Murray has stalled out. But he's year three, 24 years old. You know, they were keep waiting for that leap.

They're 13 and 14, bad loss at home to the Nuggets last night. And Kegan Murray missed the game, actually, but ankle injury. But like, like, Cam Johnson's like this big physical 3-and-D wing. He's having a career year on three-point shooting right now, hitting 43 percent. on the highest volume of his career, seven and a half attempts a game, 18 points a game, he's 29, slots really nicely between Fox and Sabonis.

Like, I don't, again, I didn't run the trade machine either, Raja. And we did just burn the CBA on this podcast. So I don't know how possible that one is, but that was the other one that hit me. Yeah, I like it too, Howard. I mean, he's another one.

You throw that type of wing player that has versatility and score the ball and shoot it. Size. I'm with it. I like it. Well, we'll see. Many months to go here of trade, speculation, rumor mongering,

careless whispers thrown around. Am I quoting George Michael now? I think I am. That sentence was going nowhere. Let's just get to the mailbag. Producer Ashley, what are we got? And welcome to the show. Hi, guys.

Thank you so much for having me on. The first one we have. is from Henrik. Hello from Stockholm. Does winner mentality matter in the draft? Doesn't all scouts look for it in players? A lot of times, it seems being the fiercest guy on the college team that goes far in the tournament is undervalued in the draft. Drayman Green, Jalen Suggs, Duane Wade even. I'm sure there are more examples and I'm sure there's a lot of such players that didn't make it all in, make it at all in the NBA. How much does it matter? I love this. I also love that we got a question from Spotify homeland, Stockholm Sweden there, like Heinrich checking in from from Spotify land.

appreciate that. Rajah, what do you think? Yeah, I think good question. I think that it matters. but if we're going down a checklist of attributes and of a draftable player, it's not like number one and number two for most people. Like there's going to be

measurable in a size, athletic component, skill level component. Those are boxes that we're probably going to check one, two, and three. But then as we get to one, two, and three, if we're comparing, you know,

apples to apples with two guys, then yeah, that's going to come into play in a way. So I think once we've identified that physically they can handle themselves in the NBA, then we start talking along those lines. And you are right. They're guys, they're exceptions to rules where guys don't necessarily fit the bill of the measurables and stuff. But because they have all of those intangibles, the things that we can't really see or quantify, they just work their way to being really good pros.

see it all the time, but far more often than not, you're going to, you know, you can, you can, far more often than not, someone's going to miss on, on someone with the, with the tangible things that you can see the height, the length, the skill, the athleticism, then, then they're, then they're going to be willing to take a risk on not having those and taking you because you're a winner. I think it's a lot easier to get fired in the space of, hey, I thought he was a winner. Then there is, hey, you look at him. you would have missed on that too.

So that's the way I saw it in the front office. I mean, it kind of goes back to our conversation we had a few weeks back with Shane Batti, right? We talked about this. Like, Shane was a lottery pick to do it, to be clear. But Shane was a guy who was considered to be low ceiling, you know, doesn't jump out of the gym, all that other stuff. But like, Shane was really smart and a winner and cared about winning. Like he had, you know, different than some of the examples that Heinrich mentioned in his email, Draymond Green, second round pick, different composition, different kind of personality.

But I don't know. I think there is something to that, Roger, where I think like scouts still are so fixated on physical attributes and athleticism and all these other things that sometimes they're not, like I know their psychological profiling that gets done as well and they ask them all the goofy questions at the combine. But I, in my experience covering the league, And I think you've confirmed this as, as, you know, from your years in playing in the league, that the differentiators, a lot of times in this league, great to good, good to bad, busts versus guys who break through unexpectedly. A lot of it has to do with the mental side of it and not the physical side of it.

It's not what you came to the league with in terms of your, your measurables. It is whether or not you have, you know, a care factor, whether you, whether you have a work ethic, whether you, you know, you know, you know, whether this all matters to you, whether you love the game. And this does speak to that a little bit too, I think, this question. Shit, Jimmy Butler, who we were just talking about, Jimmy was like the 30th pick in the draft. And a bit player his first couple of years in the league, and then becomes one of the best players of his era at his position

because dude just gives a shit much more than 90% of maybe 98% of the NBA. Part of the, I think part of the, I'm sorry, a bigger conversation, but part of the issue, too, for years had been that the pro game and the college game were two different games. You were playing two vastly different styles of play. Like most college coaches were running like sets, exhaustive sets. We're not going to shoot this one. We're going to work it around until we get a great one.

Well, the pro game wasn't like that. So like it would be hard to tell sometimes how this guy who was in this, you know, run the set for 20 seconds type of offense in, college would ultimately translate to the pros. And so then you'd see him get to the pros with freedom. And you're like, oh, shit. Like, I didn't know he could do that. I think now more colleges are getting wide open when I watch the college game.

And so it's kind of easier to figure out, oh, okay, that, you know, this would project to that and this would protect to that. But like, you're always, you see it with football and stuff. It's every sport, though. Like, it's every sport. If you ask someone, hey, man, you could take a swing at both of these kids. tell you which one has that internal it factor. Give me the bigger, stronger, faster one.

They're going to miss on that over and over and over again. That's just what it is. Yeah. No, it's a great question. Ashley, let's go to the next one. All right. The next one is from Gregory. Great stuff.

Shout out Howard and Raj, Logan, too. My question is about expansion. We all agree that coming next week with Vegas and Seattle in the mix, realignment would push a team like Minnesota. or Memphis to the east. Who should be moved? Both teams are in eastern time zones, which would help with the extensive travel schedules being reduced.

But JA and AE in the East could get to the finals relatively easier. Oh, we're talking about JAA, I think is John A.E. Anthony Edwards. Okay. A little too much shorthand in the email there. You want to go, Howard? You want me to go? Yeah, this one's interesting because I don't know.

the owners are going to beat the hell out of each other over this one. Everybody wants to be in the Eastern Conference. And I think it's actually a three-team fight potentially because Minnesota and Memphis, who the listener mentioned,

are both candidates, but so is New Orleans. Those teams are all, like, look on a U.S. map at how far east. Like, New Orleans is farther east as I look at it than Minneapolis. New Orleans and Memphis are almost even. So, but New Orleans is really close to the Texas teams. So it makes some sense to keep them

grouped together, the Texas teams and Oklahoma. Minneapolis, you know, like, it's a, it's a quick hop to Detroit, Chicago, Indiana, Indianapolis. There's a lot of logic to it being Minnesota. And then Memphis, I mean, kind of the same argument as New Orleans, a little bit further from some of those Western Conference teams. But I think the strongest case, if you're just trying to group teams together regionally, cut down on travel, I think it's probably Minnesota. What do you think? Yeah, I'm looking at.

I had to pull up the map. So it's funny, when you were saying, just pull up a map, I was just pulling up a map. Because, and I would agree with you now that I look at it on a map. But when I first heard the question, I came to it from my ex-player. side and my ex-player brain, like being on planes, what I associated. And Memphis felt more like an East Coast team. Memphis felt more like an Eastern Conference trip for me. When you were playing, when you were actually on those flights. When I was actually on those flights, yes. Memphis felt more like it. And I don't know why. I'm not saying everyone felt like that. Yeah. Yeah. So that would be

interesting. But I agree with you. Just geographically speaking and what would make the most sense in terms of having the conference and some of the conference opponents near near near near near near near you Jesus um I'm going to go in Minnesota um Jesus Christ I mean listen for most of the last 25 years the West has been the tougher conference so again like I think a lot like the league will weigh travel and cost and I don't know maybe regional rivalries they will weigh all kinds of I think financial and business factors and travel factors in this. But at the end, you're just going to have a bunch of dudes lobbying trying to get from the west to the east because those three teams can all make a case.

And I'm sure that again, looking at it historically, you'd rather be in the Eastern Conference for most of the last couple of decades. So that is a fight and a debate for another day for the league in its board of governors. Ashley, third and potentially final question, we'll see how long we go. All right. This one's from Jared. I'd like to hear thoughts about offense and basketball and office offense and football. The thought is, teams in football run to set up the pass or pass to set up the run. Similarly, basketball teams may take threes to set up the drive or drive to set up three.

With that in mind, who is the best run to set up the past teams? in the NBA. And why is it Oklahoma City? Raja, you're our resident football expert on this podcast. So this analogy is all you. So who's running to set up the pass in the NBA, is that actually the, that's not a post-up? Like, what would be the run-ist?

It was a post-up. Is it? It was. Once upon a time. Yes, once upon the time, that would be a correct analogy. I think now he's what he's saying is drive to set up the three. Yes, driving kick. Instead of like, yeah, I think, I think, I think OKC does it really well.

I think Cleveland does it well. I think Boston might do it better than anybody. I mean, they really attack, they attack and they spray it and the ball's moving. But that is what you're doing, right? Like you're trying to collapse a defense. And it is the same thing as a run game in football. Like the more people they have to put in the box to stop a run, the more space is created for receivers in the secondary theoretically, right? So the more people that have to collapse on a drive and peel off of their man to support a defender in the paint, more space is created out on the perimeter.

And then as the ball starts moving, you're in these rotations that you can't catch up and now you're shooting a jump shot. So I love it. I always love comparing basketball to football. I think it was a much more natural kind of comparison when you were posting the ball because that was the same thing, right? We're going to bury you in this post. And now you've got to send the double and we're kicking it out. But I see where you're coming from.

I like OKC. I would also throw probably Boston in there too. I like that. When I saw this email, I thought for sure we had to do that. This was right in the Roger Wheelhouse. That was a good one. Yeah, that was a good one. I like that.

I appreciate it. Was it, was it Jared? Yes, it was. Yeah, good job, Jared. I like that. Nicely done. Thank you, Jared. Nice and done.

You know what? Let's squeeze in these last two. We got time. And actually, this next one, it's just kind of, this next one is more of a, I just like, I just want to hear Raja digest this. I don't even know if there's an answer here. I just thought it was a cool concept. All right.

Number four, the Shaden Sharp one. All right. This one's from Jack. Hey, rare ones. I saw the other day that Shaden Sharp had the highest vertical on a dunk ever measured. But unfortunately, that stat has only been tracked for a few years. As a Blazers fan, it made me wonder if Travis Outlaw would hold this record.

Or maybe someone like Gerald Green. Cool stats like this only work after years of tracking. So it got me thinking, what else should we be tracking? How about those Blake Griffin dunks when his hand is a foot away from the rim? Maybe we measure the furthest away from a rim a hand was on something. we should still consider a dunk. Another would be a distance flying through the air out of bounds to successfully secure a loose ball. I bet Trald Wallace would be amazing at this. Another would be for Brandon Roy. Slowest drive to the basket. Oh my gosh. This one made me laugh. Another would be for

Brandon Roy, slowest drive to the basket move that still led to a game runner. Do you have any ideas on things that are super hard or rare that you wish we can measure somehow. Thanks. Man. That was some creative shit right there, Raj. I had to get this email just because I thought like that. Someone's done some serious thinking here, and I don't know if I have an answer there. I just liked the idea.

I will be thinking about this maybe for the next few days. Yeah, I will too. I like the creativity. Creativity is not my thing, but I can appreciate where he's coming from. Okay, so let's start with the dunk. I love the Gerald Green call because he had some sick, some sick. I think you'd have to throw probably vents in there

with some of, you know, the usual suspects, MJ. I'm trying to think of guys that you wouldn't necessarily think of off the top of your head. Kobe was never like flying above the rim by that much, right? Like Kobe could leap, but he's not, you don't think of him as like, as just elevating, levitating, right? Like Shaden Sharp is like half of his body looks like is above the rim sometimes.

Yeah. Kobe, I mean, no disrespect, because he could leap. But like he also, he had like a, he had like a hang factor. You know what I mean? Like his was like a hang factor. So there's, wait, there's another category to measure was hang factor.

Like the, the listener is asking, like, what are these other like kind of like stats we could come up with for like things that we don't know how to quantify or haven't been able to quantify in the past? Hang factor would be a really interesting one. Hang Factor would be an interesting one. Gerald Green looked like he hit a trampoline. It was like, but, ah, and like you're like right up in the air.

Man, that's a good one. I don't know. Force absorbed on a charge I like, because I always debated this with people. Like, it's so hard to quantify. Ruffs are like, oh, you lay down on that. You're like, fuck if I did. Like, he hit the hell out of me in my chest. He just ran through me.

Like, that would be interesting. I like the out of bounds. The out of bounds leaping into the stands to get the ball. I immediately thought of Dennis Rodman. That iconic photo, the one, yes, exactly, where he is parallel to the floor. His figures, he looks like Superman. He is in a Superman post. He is as straight as can be.

People can Google it if you've never seen this incredible photo before. But Dennis Rodman with the Bulls at that time, absolutely just sprawled out, levitating over the floor like he's Superman, diving for a loose ball out of balance. Like, he'd have to be one of the all-time career leaders. Yep, for sure. I like shot release time. I'm sure they do that already. But like, who had the quickest shot?

I mean, there's some out there. It's a good question. You know, the other one that's always, I've always been curious about. And with the tracking cameras, they probably can do some version of this now. I'm not smart enough to know how to look this up or if there's a way to try to get at this. The double clutch, the field goal percentage on double clutch shots, where you had it time, you, you, you, you paused a second because you thought, oh, I'm not going to get this off in time or I'm going to try to make another pass. And it's like, no, F it. I'm shooting it.

Or, oh, shit, no, the shot clock's running down after all. I better shoot this. Just the double clutch. The double clutch is probably even too specific. Hesitation. You had your opportunity to shoot it. You had a nice clean shot. You caught it in rhythm. You hesitated. And then you went up. I think the field goal percentage on those shots compared to what it would be otherwise for those guys. got it right, got to be way down. Always shoots first shot. Yeah. Always shoot the first shot.

I think hesitation is dead. Yeah, that would be low. Hesitation is deadly. Always shoot the first shot. I like the question. Yeah, great one. All right, let's squeeze in this last one, Booker and Lillard.

Last one is from Charlie. What up, Real Ones? Shout out to Logan and the new addition to the family. And shout out to the boy Kerm. Good luck with your future endeavors, bro. Howard and Raj. What up? Just want to throw a couple things at you real quick.

Is Devin? Booker, Damian Lillard. That's the question. It makes sense in a second. I would love to see D.Book stay with PHX to play with one team. With KD in and out of the lineup, they are slowly moving down the standings

in the competitive West. If this year and maybe the next don't produce real results, does book kind of start to look around or keep his royalties with pHX? Also, is Jalen Green, Jason Tatum? to where we kind of expect him to be the alpha on his team,

but there have been many certain obstacles to where it may have not happened as fast, and his skill set may blossom a little later than expected. Thanks, guys. Real one for life. That was Charlie? Yep, that was Charlie. Charlie, Real One for Life. Appreciate that.

Booker in Phoenix. This is not the first time we've discussed, not you and I. I don't know if you and I ever have, But like this has been a conversation for going on like five years or more, like pre-Christ Paul even. But like right now they've got this tiny, tiny window. I don't know how long this window lasts of Booker, Durant, Beal, this configuration. But yeah, I mean, if this thing crashes and burns and they've traded everything they had for years to come just to construct this in the first place, it's too soon to have that conversation. But, you know, look, Durant's in and out of the lineup, getting banged up per usual.

still amazing when he's playing, though. So I don't know that this is on the table right now. It's not front burner, but it's not irrelevant. Like this is in the back of people's minds. This is the kind of thing that front offices are keeping an eye on, right? Yeah. Yeah, you're on the, we had to, like, we had to go do some homework in the other room,

so we put the pot on the back burner and we put that journal simmer, like the one where the flame pops up every like 30 seconds and just hits it with a little heat. just keep it warm because you're right. We can't do that now. We can't have that conversation now, not in the middle of this. However, to your point, if this doesn't work, then that conversation is coming to the front burner.

And if I'm deep book, as much as I love the suns and I love the valley, I mean, we're going to have to have that conversation because, you know, I think if you ask Dame probably now, he'd tell you he probably waited a couple years too long, right? And I don't want to be in that situation. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, too soon for the book conversation, but not by a lot. Like it's all, it's, it's sitting there on the horizon somewhere.

Whenever Durant plays his last game for the Suns, that will be the day that we have this conversation. Because I don't know that they're going to be in a position to be able to just patch it up on the fly and keep going. And by that point, Booker may say he may recognize the same thing, right? And say maybe it's time to go somewhere else. The second piece of this was interesting. I'm not there on Jalen Green, Jason Tatum, just because I don't think Jalen Green is even the same, you know, zip code as Jason Tatum in terms of play, talent. And Green is young and, you know, look, he could get there.

But the question was about expecting him to be an alpha, but you can't certain obstacles. I don't know what he meant by obstacles. I think, I mean, at a glance, I would say, like, these are both teams that thrive on ensembles, right? Like Tatum wasn't the MVP of the finals because even though he's the best player on the team, Jalen Brown had the better series and again, like the Celtics are super deep and the Rockets right now like there really is no

there's not an alpha. There's like just a bunch of dudes who play their asses off defensively and you know occasionally make a shot. I don't know maybe Jalen Green grows into that. What's your read of Jalen Green at the stage? Yeah, I mean I don't, I agree with you. I don't, I could make

a case for where he's going with the question just because you're saying like their personalities there in Houston, Dylan Brooks kind of, you know, Marcus Smart was kind of like a, maybe like a heartbeat type of player a little bit more fiery, a little bit more emotion. So like a Jason Tatum as a younger

player, you know, big bros kind of in that lane already. Like how do, like, you know, I could see where he's going, but they're not the same. Like Jayling, Jason Tatum, I think was, you know, and I don't mean any disrespect, but a much better player. You're not comparing apples to apples there. Yeah. So, so, I mean, I like

Jalen Green, I don't think he winds up being Jason Tatum. And I think when Jason Tatum came in, even though he might not have been required to do all of that, like quote unquote leadership type of stuff, I think his game was already leadership game. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like he was already,

and then it was just about developing it and continuing to kind of get better in the areas that ultimately win championships. But I just think he came in more ready and more able to kind of hit the NBA bricks and be productive like that. Yeah. It's one of my great curiosities about the Rockets is that because there is not an obvious number one. Like it hit me the other day, Raja, tell me if I'm going too far with this.

And I actually should put the lineups in front of me before I actually make this statement. But at a certain point on Saturday during that semifinal, with the Rockets and Thunder, it hit me that I wasn't sure there was a single player on the Rockets who would start with the Thunder. And that's not a knock on the Rockets. It's just the Thunder at full straight. If Hartenstein and Chet are both there. I don't know. Is Shangoon dislodging Hartnstein? Is Shangoon starting on that Thunder team at full strength?

Is Jalen Green starting on the Thund? No, I don't think so. So it's not a knock. It's to the Rockets credit that they've been this good. But it is the curiosity about them going forward is that eventually they're going to need, if Jalen Green doesn't blossom into not necessarily Jason Tatum, but some version of a top 10 to top 15 type player, is Jabari Smith going to get there?

Is Shangun going to get? Like, they all look like just really, really good players. I don't know that there's a perennial All-Star in the waiting there. And so it suggests that eventually there's a consolidation trade where they're going to go get somebody, right? And that's why they're been linked to Durant at times and Butler at times. You know, I think there was some Janus stuff thrown around when we were ready to bury the bucks. but it's like whatever the rocket's next move is in the next year or two.

It doesn't have to happen right now. But that is a curiosity. Yep. Cool, cool. Ashley, great job with the mailbag. Appreciate it. Thank you. We have emptied the mailbag, folks.

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