The Ringer NBA Show - Who Won the 2021 NBA Draft? | The Answer

Episode Date: July 30, 2021

Late Thursday night, Chris is joined by J. Kyle Mann and Wos to recap the 2021 NBA Draft. They discuss the Draft's biggest surprises (0:57), Golden State picking Jonathan Kuminga (4:00), and Orlando's draft (11:08). Then, they get into the the Russell Westbrook trade (27:19) before breaking down some of the obvious picks of the draft (32:26). Host: Chris Ryan Guests: J. Kyle Mann and Wosny Lambre Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On R2C2, Cecee Sabathia and Ryan Rucco guide listeners through everything going on in the MLB, NBA, and NFL. They also talk to friends, athletes, and celebrities about the world of sports and much more. Check out R2C2 with CCC with Sisi Sabathia and Ryan Rucco on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, so tonight it's the Winger NBA show. It's the answer. I'm here with Waz and Kyle. We're here to answer the question, who won the NBA draft. It's a little bit late for me.

It's my first draft on the East Coast in probably 10 years. So it's interesting to be up at 11 o'clock watching the Sixers take Jaden Springer and not quite feeling the joie de vivre, I usually feel. But it was a fun night either way. Kyle, I'm going to start with you because you are the expert. We're going to get into winners. We're going to get into losers. We're going to talk about the Rust trade.

What was the first time you were surprised in this draft? Well, just looking here at the top, the first, I mean, the first obvious big surprise, I think, to everybody. everybody kind of expected correctly or incorrectly that Toronto was going to go with Jalen Green. I mean, Scotty Barnes, Scottie Barnes is a really good player. I think what people were kind of looking at was maybe just kind of doing the fit thing and not considering the plan that Toronto might have and thinking that Orlando. And the thing that we were thinking the whole time was like, you know, this sucks for Orlando based on their needs because the best players available just really clashed with. with their rebuild, like the Comingas, the Jonathan Barr, or the Scotty Barnes. So, yeah, that surprised me.

But he's a good player. It just kind of implies that maybe there is more to come. Yeah, was the thing for, especially in that lottery and even into like 16, 17, you got the feeling like some of these picks were setting up moves to come in the next week or so. Yeah. And, you know, somebody like Toronto taking Scott. Barans where it's like that was nobody's idea of the most talented guys still left on the board but it's kind of hard to argue with what Toronto does when it comes to talent and

identifying it then going out and developing it in a way that makes sense for Raptors culture right because you know a couple of because so I picked the Raptors to go to the finals back in 2019 when they ended up winning it and so congratulations this was before that season. So because of that, I ended up having a little mini Toronto community in my Twitter followers, right? So I follow a decent amount and I'm friends with a decent amount of Toronto people. And the majority of them were kind of slack-jawed by the move, right? But, you know, with Missouji, you kind of have to come to expect the unexpected. And again, you know, with that guy's track record of not only identifying talent, but developing it, you know, it's hard to question it.

I think the pick that I was most interested in was definitely Golden State because they're the one team in that range who, you know, can reasonably consider themselves to be a contender, quote unquote, next season. So it's always interesting to see a team that's in that position. You know, all heads like us will remember the Detroit Pistons back in. know, three in that same position going with the upside play. They were like, oh, let's get darko. He might be the next dirk instead of the obvious Carmelo situation, right?

So Golden State ends up going the other way and takes what people consider to be, you know, a high upside guy, but not a lot of polish, a lot of skill work left to be done. Kyle, the bloom came off the commingar rose over the last couple of weeks, months, whatever. It seemed like if you had asked people in November, December. He would have been top four. So should, by that logic, Golden State, be really happy with who they got tonight? I mean, it kind of depends on what your plan is with him, because when I look at him, I think about this, this was a guy who is that we've said this on our other draft shows, but he was at the top of his class and he reclassified. And then, but I think that it got

exacerbated by the fact that his challenges when you threw them into that environment looked glaringly. worse. I mean, this is a guy who averaged 15.8 on 37 or 38.7 from the field. He was 0.709 points per possession on spot-ups and 28% on unguarded catch-and- shoot looks. His shot selection is rough. I think it's a case of this guy is, I mean, physically like an Adonis. I mean, he's enormous. I stood next to him at an event one time and I mean, he's as big and bulky as like O. G. Oninovi. He's a guy that could absolutely play like four and probably some five in the league. What was the event?

Just like summer EYBL. I mean, you can kind of get an eyeball for some of these guys. It wasn't like a tasting menu, like a pre-feeks somewhere, a restaurant. No, it wasn't like an opening. It wasn't like an opening or anything like that. Yeah, it was a top-us thing. A pop-up artisanal bagel shop? We shed some tapas.

Why is it so much like low-key east side hostility but also envy? It's always shots about bagel pop-ups and IPAs, but I can feel in his voice. He's always like I kind of wish I was a silver-lake guy. These things that I've consumed in mass amounts in my life, Chris. Bagels and IPAs? Yes, yes. I had a locks bagel this morning and I thought of you was because I even know that about your following you on Instagram that you like locks bagels.

I already knew that. Anyway, so yeah, I mean, he just, his weaknesses were just kind of glaring in the G-Lean. but he's a long-term play. I was like he could go anywhere from like a great version of Jeff Green to I was joking with KOC just to see what he would say. I was like, or he could be like a rich man's Al-Farukaminu. Like this guy could go a lot of different ways. But he physically is really talented.

It's just a long-term play. It kind of makes me wonder, yeah, like if they're going to maybe make a move, maybe even with Toronto. So you can see in the green room chat, there's a little bit of a split decision of some people being like, actually I'm all in on Kaminga. That's a great pick. you guys will see, you guys will see.

And then there's a bunch of people who are like, this is ridiculous. I think that the overriding sentiment is like, what's the plan, right? Because before the draft tonight, there were just some absolutely choice, amazing trade rumors, or at least trade talk rumors,

where there was some suggestion that the Sixers had made a request from the Warriors that they wanted, what was it, Wiggins, Wiseman, 7 and 14 for Simmons. And that kind of stands to reason with like, guess there was a calves rumor that Mori asked for like every good young Cavs player plus all their picks for Simmons. Like it does feel like it was it was stick up season for Daryl and he didn't really he didn't really find anything. But is Comingo part of a package? Right. That's the thing that

we're going to be asking is like is our comminga and Moody and uh and wise men like part of the next generation of the warriors and this bridge to like the future or is it like we're going to package jump up these young guys and get Steph some immediate help with Clay coming back. Why, it's like, if you're a Golden State fan tonight, are you like, I feel Zen about the next eight years or are you panicking because we're wasting Steph's prime? I mean, there's nothing to panic about. There's a lot of time between now and next season's trade deadline. So that's a one.

There's nothing to panic about. But, you know, why my eyebrow will be raised is because Kaminga, again, as you guys mentioned, not a polished NBA prospect, part of the problem of last season was the push and pull between are we developing a guy we just spent the number two pick and the draft on in Wiseman, or are we trying to get positioning for playoff seating? Are we win now or are we think, do we have an eye towards the future?

And I think trying to juggle that, They did that quite clumsily last year with Wiseman. So if you're a Warriors fan and you see them take on another guy who can be considered nothing but a project, you have to wonder, right? You know, I'm somebody who went into last season was like, look, and Steph we trust. You put basically anybody next to Steph, I believe in their ability to play way over their head. But, you know, and that's even with the rookie. But I saw that there were even limitations with that.

because, you know, the NBA is hard. You know? Yeah, and you know what? Steve Kerr makes it a little bit harder. Right. Because that offense is complicated, right? Like, that's not a beginner, easy read offense. There's a lot of movement.

There's a lot of, like, screening off the ball, a lot of running. So it's a tough offense to learn your rookie year, I imagine. Yes, definitely. I mean, for Wiseman, it was a tough. We said it all season. It was a tough situation for him. I mean, I think he maybe was over-dict. drafted even still.

I don't, I don't think that I would have gone with him too regardless, but especially for the Warriors. Epically tough fit, epically tough, uh, result. But we've heard over and over again that there was a lot of disagreement within Golden State about that pick anyway, right? That they weren't even sure among their organization that that's who they wanted to take. Yeah. There was a, I noticed on the broadcast, there was a lot of talk about team cultures.

Like all of a sudden there's like a thunder, like a thunder style of play, a thunder culture. There was Pacer's culture, now that Carlisle back in the building. And Warriors culture is this thing. And we got a couple of comments here in the chat where Will Cullen just said, like, Leacob thinks that it's the org, thinks the org, not Steph is the reason why they've been successful. That might be a pretty like hyperbolic reading of this situation. But it's consistent with some reporting about like the warriors see themselves as like greater than missed, maybe like just one or two guys.

It's not a one-man show. It's like this idea that they have like, they've got this spaceship new arena. They've got like this incredibly successful franchise and that they know now like the path to success going forward. In a world where like every team is in win now, like especially the teams in the echelon that the Warriors are in and we saw this with the Lakers tonight with Russ.

It's just interesting to watch them kind of like try to like navigate the president in the future. I guess that's that's one of the most. fascinating things that come out of this draft tonight. A lot of other fascinating things. We talked about Scotty Barnes. We talked about, let's talk a little bit about Suggs going to Orlando, but just the night that Orlando had.

Because Orlando has been not a joke over these last couple of drafts, but they've definitely marched to the beat of their own drum. Kyle, what did you think of Orlando's night tonight? I mean, it's a huge win for them. If you think about they are getting. the best player available and fit. They're doing two things at once. I mean, they're very fortunate that someone didn't sort of, well, I mean, they're just

very fortunate to end up with Jalen Green because he's a guy that fits their, not only does he fit in the schematic sense, but I think that he sort of fits the physical kind of grinder type of player that they have on their roster, but he also gives them ball skills. I think eventually he's going to be a pretty solid dribble pull-up shooter. I mean, we've seen, he's a leader. I think he gets to the rim. I think he can make these guys better. But I also think he's just going to be a nice culture injection on that front, too.

I think that was a huge win for them. And then you think about Franz Wagner, it's the same kind of thing. I think he's a guy that's going to be really reliable, catch and shoot. He can defend multiple positions. I think that they got a lot of lineup flexibility tonight. They got better. Those are two guys that are going to help them get better in the near future, in my opinion. Why, does Orlando move the needle at all for you?

I like Greg Anthony's kid, right? Like I like Cole Anthony. I like his makeup. I like the way, I like his approach to the game, right? He's very aggressive. He's already got a pretty reliable jump shot. We've seen that he's willing to take shots, even when he misses him. He misses him often, as was the case during his rookie season.

But I like his makeup because let's face it, man, how many freaking 6-9-7-2 wingspan do to can't shoot, are you going to draft? I know. Who seem to have catastrophic knee injuries every year? I'm not laughing at those dudes. I'm just like it. The magic luck is bad, yeah. Yeah, at a certain point, you got to get some guys in there who can pass dribble and shoot.

And they did that with Cole Anthony. They've done that with Jalen Suggs. And as Kyle just mentioned, Wagner is a guy who does the sort of skill work, the dirty work. Yeah, he's not going to dribble, dribble, dribble, break somebody down off. off of his dribble penetration, but going to set great screens on the pick and pop. He's a pretty switchy guy. And, you know, these are things that matter.

We saw this all throughout the NBA playoffs, guys who can make an open shot when called upon and not get completely flambayed on defense. That's like, these are important tools to have when building the pillars of a quality NBA team. So, yeah, I think they acquitted themselves quite well here. I wonder what Jalen Sugg's arrival, if anything, and a lot of people are asking this in the chat,

means for Markell. Because before his injury, Fultz was looking, like he had at least found a role, a spot, a home in the NBA after a kind of tumultuous experience in Philadelphia. And now they've got like a plethora of guards that like, you know, all of a sudden they have like a nice little guard rotation. Maybe it's just kind of like, can Fultz and Suggs play in the same backcourt?

call? They can. I mean, it's not, I'd like to, I like to have just for pure philosophical reasons, I like to have a pretty knockdown shooter in my back court. I like to have, you know, I like my point guard to be a pretty good dribble shooter. It's not like apex on that level. If they can sprinkle more shooting throughout in there, I don't know, even Fultz and Cole to me, both are weird fits with Suggs. It could open the door for, for them to do something going forward. because it's not like a perfect fit, but Orlando, as we've seen over recent years, I mean, they've been near the bottom of the league in offensive rating, like, I mean, many of the last five years. It's something like pretty consistent branding. I've called them the crowded elevator

for a while. They are arcade fire in an elevator trying to play music basically and run offense. It's hard to do. Kyle, are you doubting magic culture? I wouldn't dare do that. I would not dare do that. I mean, I thought for sure they were going to take Jonathan Cominga and just kind of add just another one on the pile. Yeah. Just try to figure it out. So Suggs goes to Orlando and then things get really interesting

because Presti Presti takes your boy was Josh Giddy out of Australia who is an absolutely like crush worthy YouTube player because it's just him picking passes over dude's heads from the top of the key and seems to have a passing range

built for the modern NBA where he's like lolling guys to sleep, bringing on doubles, and then just making these impossible skips to every, to the corner for the three-pointer. But like, seems like has more bust potential than anybody else in this, in this lottery.

Just because all the negatives on him are like, doesn't have NBA athleticism. Might not have, like, might not be able to play any defense. Finishes below the rim. All things you don't want to see. were you were you were kind of charmed by this pick or do you

think it's like a reach? No, I mean, if you're Sam I was about to call him Henke. If you're Sam Prusty, the point of having three trillion draft picks is that you can take some risk, right? There's no reason to sort of play it safe here

when, you know, let's face it, job security isn't an issue for him right now in the, you know, sort of position in the position that OKC finds itself in, right? Where they're in rebuild mode. They like the young pieces that they have in guys like SGA and Lou Dort, et cetera, et cetera.

But, you know, they're not expected to do anything for a while. So why would you not take the guy that you yourself were most excited about if you're saying Presti? So if people think this is a reach, that means that most people didn't think this highly of giddy. And so if you're Sam Presti, and again, like between now in 2028, you've got 30 pigs. Take the guy that you like the most. You're going to have other bites at the apple.

I get it. Kyle, Giddy and Rich, or you like it? Yeah, I like Giddy. The question for him has just been, you know, he's kind of like a bigger Rubio-type passing talent, honestly. I mean, the shooting is going to unlock a lot for him. It's going to make the difference between him being, you know, a star or just a pretty good player that has some conditions. I mean, because he's a super, super talented playmaker. I was tweeting out some links if anybody wants to go check out on and follow me on Twitter.

Go ahead. I mean, he's really, really fluid off the dribble, like passing off the dribble, hitting corners. His passing touch is really solid. And that's the type of passing talent you want because he's big and it's just the shooting is going to make a huge difference. and he's really young, so there's time. Was, were you surprised to see SGA get tossed around in a couple of rumors? No, because, am I really about to do this? I'm a bit of an SGA truther.

Okay. In what direction? The negative. I watched his last playoff series that he played. He was horrible. He was like an infant, though. That's cool, but he was horrible. He couldn't dribble at certain, like, the way that he was bad.

I was like, look, man. I like, I understand why people, not saying he's a bad player. I think he'll make All-Star games eventually or something at some point in his life. But I think there's a golf between what people think he can do. And to me, I'm like, is he ever going to be that type of guy who's dribbling by people and getting to the line constantly in the postseason? Is he ever going to be that A1 type of guy? I personally don't think so.

So to me, it doesn't surprise me that the people who have them in house feel that way as well. I think he's cool on the internet. He's cool in theory. He's never been asked to do anything. Right. So that's our favorite part with these young guys, right? Like, I remember three years ago when I was tweeting hashtag Janus Jordan.

It was only two and a half years later where people were basically like, does this guy have it? You can't even make free throws. Was, how come you're memorializing all your hits and none of your misses tonight? So so far we had 19 Raptors. We had Yonis Jordan. So what's, give me one, give me a swing and a miss. A miss?

Oh, okay, that's easy. Your Philadelphia 76ers last season? I was convinced these guys we're going to maul people on defense, grind them into dust, muster enough offense, go to the finals. I was, I bought in on the Al Horford thing. I was all in on these guys. Pye on my face. I was, I was holding on to it until the first round.

It might have been the second game where they were trying to get, shake Milton to carry the load on the point. And I said, this is over. Shake Milton. If shake Milton is your answer, changed the question. SGA was in one of the several. fake Ben deals that was floating around on Twitter the other day. That's why one of the reasons why I brought it up.

That's crazy to me. I don't see how you think Ben Simmons is an upgrade. I don't see. So you don't think, wait, you don't think the thunder would be going down a level to trade SGA for Simmons? Yeah, I think so. This is a both sides of your mouth thing here, right? I mean, you don't think Simmons is so bad that SGA,

who you don't think is overrated is better. Yes, yes. Like, again, I hate doing this, but like for the 20th time, on a playoff team that matters, what does Ben Simmons do for that team? Right. You know, like, you think he'd be a five. You'd think he'd be a small ball five. That's, I mean, quote, quote, quote small.

Look, small ball five, right? When we're talking about these guys conceptually, when we're talking about AD, we're talking about Draymond Green. Jemont Green was guarding DeMarcus cousins and Anthony Davis on an island as a small ball five. Ben Simmons will never do that. So like this idea he's going to be your answer at the five as if guarding the paint will somehow not matter because Ben Simmons is playing the five. Like he's going to magically wish that away as a five man. I just don't get it.

I don't get it. You'd have to pair him with somebody that's like positionally. pretty strong, I think, to kind of take some of that stuff away. I mean, there's a world where it could work. I mean, I'm more skeptical than ever of that being the case, but I feel like, I value them both. It's just his conditions are like so, so narrow. They've gotten more and more narrow since he's been in the league. You know, at first we started, we were like, what a wondrous world this is, where this guy could be a point guard. And then we were just like years of gnashing our teeth about him fitting next to Joel. And now we're like, where does he fit? Period. I mean, what a conversation for

Darry to have in the midst of trying to get like a high return. I mean, that's why it's been so hilarious hearing some of these things he's asking for. I want to get back to some of the guys who were picked tonight, but just because we're talking about the SGA rumors and Simmons now, so the dame thing happened earlier today with his back and forth, you know, with Henry Abbott, there was like some very, I thought, craftily worded tweets from the media about Washington's plan when they got they get rid of westbrook they send westbrook to the l a and it's all about cap flexibility and veteran shooting around to get like be able to buy into what they're building there in washington so i wonder whether or not we're going into a week here where we might not see any of

these guys move i mean at least right now right like it's it seems as if any any like all we all we heard it was like ben's going to go tonight it's going to happen tonight ben simmons is going to get traded on draft night and that didn't happen. I know that this week, a lot, a lot could go on. But I wonder, part of me wonders with the Lakers making that move for Russ, whether or not that was a sign that that's like what they felt like was out there. You know what I mean? Like whether there is an indication that the Beals, the Lillards,

and maybe even to some extent the Simonses are staying put for a little while. What did you guys, what do you guys think about that? So I think the Dane thing, what's obvious is that Henry's reporting, that a Dame trade request was eminent. And Dame comes out and says, you're wrong. Yeah. So to me, Portland's like, all right, if you're not going to browbeat us to death about getting you out of here

because we failed, then we're not moving you. That's so obviously a Dame situation there. So to me, it seems like Portland's like, we're taking this to the deadline. We're showing this guy that we're going to put together a quality offseason. And Dame is going to be on our team. at least until the deadline because what's the freaking rush? This is the best player our team has,

our franchise has probably ever had. That's not even hyperbole. Like, he's probably, he's the best player in the history of the freaking franchise. Oh, the Blazers? Yeah. Yeah. So, no, we don't have to move him right now.

So they're not the ones who are like, oh, we're thinking about moving dame. It's the whispers are coming from Dames people. Okay. So Portland, of course, if they're not being rushed by Dane. they're not gonna move him. Cool.

The Brad Beal thing again, I don't like, it feels like the messaging out of his camp is a little bit more confusing. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, the Wizards seem like they wanna hold steadfast to him. Although another, like I don't get why. I get that Leonis is somebody who loves eight seeds

and ninth seeds and 10 seeds now. Like, I get that that's been his MO for years now. But what is, like, do you, how can you watch what you did to bring in Westbrook, watch what you did last year and think, reasonably think like, no, we're going to put a winner next to this guy pretty soon. Right. What is Bradley Beal about? I think that's kind of what this, what I keep thinking about.

I mean, if he wants to accept money, that's, again, it's not a Supermax. I mean, you know, I've never had the opportunity to do anything remotely resembling that. So I can't fault him for that. but I mean, them building a winner, it's just like him can, I just see him like sealing off like the rest of his prime, like if he's going to do that. And do we actually see that happening like you were saying was? How much confidence are you filled? Like I look at their roster now and I'm just like, I mean, several main pieces away. I mean, everything they have on the roster is like supplementary to a good basketball team. So I don't get it.

I honestly don't know. David Brad are also going to be really interesting because I, you know, you know, the question about whether or not you can build around a small guard, right? Which I think is like a nagging question outside of the Warriors who had really like a kind of once in a generation collection of guys and then added Kevin Durant to it. But like if you're building a team around Bradley Beal and that Bradley Beal is going to get like a huge chunk, a big chunk of your salary cap, like what can you add to that? Especially given the Wizards routinely picking 13th, 14th, 15th, just not have a

a lot of value guys there and they haven't really hit on a pick in quite some time. You're right. I'm just kind of like, I think there's something about the fact that the schedule or the calendar of the NBA year has been so upside down with like, you know, we're supposed to be done with free agency on July 6th, but pretty much we're damn near in August and we haven't had any free agency moves. Russ is the first like big trade. But there was something about the Russ trade would make me feel like it was the last big trade. I guess that's my thing, is there was something about the Lakers being like, this is what we can do going into next season.

So let's talk about the Rustrade. Was, like this happens. Does this feel like late period calves to you? Or does this feel like a brave and brilliant move by Team Clutch and my guy Rob? I will implore our listeners right now to do something. And that's go check out Russell Westbrook's playoff stats. from game five of the 2016 Western Conference finals up until this day. Okay.

Go look those up. And you'll have my answer. Why? Why? Why? The Lakers broke one of my like cornerstone beliefs of basketball, and that is the never trade for Russ rule. Yeah, I mean, it just don't do it.

He, doesn't it feel desperate? I mean, on the desperation scale, where does this hit one to a hundred? What do you all think? Well, this, this honestly feels a little bit like, like LeBron pressing a little bit. Like, it feels a little bit like him being like, I tried it with the junkyard dogs. And now I want another hitter here with me, with AD. I want a guy who, you know, when Russ gets hurt, Russ gets hurt. he can miss time, but like Russ will play his ass off.

You know what I mean? Like Russ is, Russ is like a dude that the LeBron came up with, I guess. And I think like probably has like whatever kind of relationship he has. But it's pretty telling that like KCP and Coos, very popular Laker in a lot of ways. And, you know, like those are those are the guys that were the components of this deal. Those dudes were like, I don't know, they were pretty, they were pretty useful players for the Lakers. of various points over the regular season and the postseason.

And KCP was like the first step in the manna from heaven. This is all going to come together now thing that the Lakers are right now. So I would never count LeBron and AD out of anything because honestly I think if AD's healthy, they're in the finals. But I'm still, I'm a little bit confused about this. Certainly doesn't help their shooting. I don't necessarily think it helps them as a defensive team. And the big thing that you can see on Lakers Twitter tonight is that

this is basically the gauntlet to be like, AD has to play the five now, right? Because otherwise... Well, yeah. We'll see about that. And at the same time, you know, why it's disappointing to me it's because the Buddy Hill deal

seemed to be right there on the table, which made way more sense. Because, you know, the formula has always been, or basically since the 2013 playoffs, it's like, yo, just get LeBron with some shooters and guys, who won't shit the bed on defense. And this thing is going to be all right.

It's going to figure itself out. Pretty much has been the formula. 2016, when my man Ty Lou was benching Kevin Love for Richard Jefferson, who was basically out of the league in six months after that, it's the formula. Play manageable D, knocked down an open shot. LeBron is going to figure out the rest. It's not get these ball dominant, non-shooting guys all up in the video, all up on the song. And, you know, everything sort of works out.

So I'm like, if the buddy heel deal is there and you get to retain KCP, so you're telling me I get to do Anthony Davis picking roles with Braun. and I get to space out KCP and Buddy Heald and find some other freaking guy. I like that. I like the way that sounds. Not that Buddy Heald is anybody's idea of competent defense. But I think during the Vogel regime, the Lakers have found competent defenders all over the place, made competent defenders out of people like Dennis Schrooter and Rajan Rondo,

who was washed, like, all over the place. Like, maybe they could do the same thing with Buddy Heald while him also being in elite special type of shooter. So to see that was on the table and instead what they did was get Westbrook, from what I hear from people who would know pretty well, him and LeBron are pretty tight

Westbrook, that is. They have a really good relationship. But at the same time, we saw what happened the last time he played with one of his boys. Yeah. The Lakers scraped them. Yes. That's right.

Kyle, let's get back into some of the picks. We kind of missed a little bit of like the obvious guys, which we're all chalk, Cunningham, Jalen Green, Mowbly. Sometimes this happens when we watch in the draft though, where even though you know this is going to happen, even though you know where the guy is going to go, when Silver says the name and the team, something kind of clicks in your brain. Did that happen at all for any one of these three guys more than another? Because to me, it was watching Evan Mobley get drafted.

I was like, damn. Like, that guy, I don't know if he's going to change Cleveland. I don't know who's going to be on Cleveland in a week. But Evan Mobley to Cleveland just seems like a really nice value pick at three. Yeah, I mean, value pick feels like the understatement of the century. I mean, you have a three-headed monster here of Cunningham, Green, and Mobley, where any of the three of them, I mean, Cunningham's projected upside, I think, is pretty noticeably. higher, pretty significantly higher, but I think Mobley has a chance to be a defensive anchor.

And he was last year, I looked up a couple of relevant stats to them. I mean, he was the most efficient post-cutter passer in the country last year as a freshman. And it was a weirdly put-together team. So, and he has a way of sort of elevating by being a defensive anchor and being a guy that can create as a post-cutter passer. And he also, he has the potential to be like a great drop five. Like he's a guy who can get out on the perimeter. Sort of the way that, like, Janus was bothering Phoenix down the stretch. The way AD bothered, bothered Miami down the stretch, it's sort of a Trump move. Pardon that word.

It's sort of a gotcha. It's all right, man. We could take that word back. It's a finisher move. It's a finisher move in terms of lineups because he's long. He's got great hands. And eventually, I think he'll shoot it, too. That's the scary part about Mowgli.

They're not sending us their best. Yeah. Was, were you, were you, was there any one of the three guys that you were like, damn, this makes a ton of sense? Was it over Jalen, K.Aid, Mobley, were you just like, did any of them, like, feel like, like it was written in the stars?

I mean, I think for Detroit, it's got to be Ked when you say written in the stars? Because when's the last time they had somebody who was even thought to be even potentially as dynamic as what Kate Cunningham has shown, right? Grand Hill. Damn.

That's, wow. I just felt old right there. And again, you know, for people who are listening who might be a little bit younger, who don't understand the Grant Hill thing, like this guy was the consensus picked to be the heir to the Jordan throne.

That's not hyperbole. That's what Matt is. Avenue thought. That's what NBA thinkers thought. People were like, this guy is going to carry the league into the next generation. That's what people thought of Grant Hill before he ruined his ankle or leg or whatever in that last series that he played with the Pistons. Like, that's how dynamic of a guy people saw him to be. So for Detroit to finally have this sort of superstar potential kind of guy. And to be honest with you, I don't watch a lot of college basketball. I just don't think it's very fun to watch. So I didn't get to

a chance to catch a lot of these guys in that setting. But I have watched a bunch of KOC-type, you know, scouting videos on Cade Cunningham specifically. And, you know, his on-ball stuff, his mastery of understanding how the defense is positioned when he turns the corner on picking rolls, his ability to whip those cross-court passes with either hand off the dribble. That's what gets me excited and that he already has a reliable jump shot, to me is Detroit not having, even somebody was even considered potentially this type of number one cat since Grant Hill. That's the one to me that makes the most sense because they've been so talent star for so long. Kyle, how good does Kate have to be for Detroit to be a playoff team next year?

Pretty good. I don't, I'm not sure. I mean, they do have some pieces that kind of, I wanted to comment on the Grant Hill. I'll get to, I want to have a comment on the Grant Hill thing. He isn't interesting. I've been thinking about that more lately and that like Grand Hills, like downhill creation was so amazing,

but back then with the shooting and the way the defensive rules were, you didn't necessarily have to shoot it, so it feels like Cade is sort of an evolutionary answer to like what Cade would be like today. But in terms of their unit next year, I mean, they have pieces that I think plugged directly into him.

But the lovely thing about a player like Cade is three-level score. He's got Big Cajonis. he likes the moment. I think he's a leader. I think he's going to be able to help your rollers. I think he's going to be able to hit the corners. He can score.

And he's big. So, I mean, yeah, he's a floor-raising player. He's not on the level of like a Hardin and a Luca in terms of like an offensive, you know, whiz. But he is, he has very few holes. Like we've heard Mike Schmidt say a hundred times, it's true. They could shoot, and get to the rim and his middle game is solid because he's built like a truck. Like I always say he's a QB and a tight end's body. That's kind of like Hubey's mind.

Damn, you're taking Jalen Suggs' football credit and giving it to Cade. Well, Cade was a football player too. But he had to quit, obviously. Jaylor Green of the Rockets. And did the Rockets have a great draft? Because that's like kind of like vibes coming off of the green room here in the chat, like general conventional wisdom, really nice draft for a much beleaguered franchise. Tillman losing all his dudes to Philly or Brooklyn.

but tonight, today a little bit of, a little bit of hope for Houston. Like, Jalen Green is obviously, I don't know about Can't Miss, but like, it's kind of just like, just like, a lot of people were like, you know, in a vacuum,

you might want to take him number one. What do you guys think about the Jalen Green Rockets fit? And what does he play with Porter in the back court next season? Like, do we see Wall get moved somehow? Like, what are you guys seeing from, Houston next year. We can start with you, Waz.

This team is going to be back in the top three. That's what I'm seeing from Houston next year. And as far as Jalen Green, like Anthony Edwards before him last year, I get that this is a three-point shooting league now. But man, you get me a guy at this size who nobody can stay in front of and is explosive at the cup, I'm in. I'm in. I'm going to be in. So I'm excited to see what he does with the team. It'll be interesting to see if they keep John Wall, how that sort of figures in. Because, man, John Wall used to be known for being one of the best table setters,

playmakers, used to lead the league in generating corner threes. He used to be this point guard savant type of guy. I wonder if on a team like this he'll be able to tap back into that kind of thing. So, you know, we'll see what happens with them. Kyle, was there a part of you that was leaning green as the number one pick? No, no, never. I mean, I was closer to Green 3, honestly. I mean, I understood.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I even think Suggs is going to be like an immediate two-way. I think he's going to be like a two-way great player in the NBA. The crazy thing about this draft is all four of these guys could end up as like top 30 players. I mean, it could happen. I mean, that's pretty, people got on my case for saying that I thought green, his ceiling is probably in that Brad, BLE, E, Zach Levine, like, in his prime hit that, like, top 25 range, maybe make two or three All-Star Games.

I just think he has a lot of questions that have to play out right. Like, like, Was was saying, I mean, he's sort of, he's sort of the type of guy that we fell in like the 90s and the 2000s, sort of similar to Edwards. Stuck in the 90s. Electric. I mean, that was my time. I got a 90s bulls shirt on right now. Not a Bulls fan, but I got a lot of old stuff.

Yeah, I mean, Green just if the shot comes around, he can create his own shot. Obviously, we've seen that. It's just, I think it could be ugly early on because he is the type of guy that's going to need to be optimized next to a playmaker. We were talking about Beal earlier, like, how do you build around them? I mean, I think Phoenix has kind of given us a template for that. If you put a big-time heavy load playmaker next to a scoring guard like this, you can get somewhere. but I mean, I think Houston overall had a great draft.

I think they really nailed this. I mean, I think Shingoon could end up being a valuable piece. Josh Christopher, like I was telling you guys, I guarantee you, he thinks he's like he should have been picked number three. Usman Garuba is a legitimate, like, defensive whiz. I think I could see him playing some five. I could see him playing with Christian Wood next year. But I think in the short term, I mean, Kevin Porter and Jalen Green guarantee.

T, we're talking about it. If they go with that full time, maybe they will. You're back in the top three again, most likely. But I mean, in terms of developing green, Wall could be a good, you know, he ain't what he used to be, but Wall still has passing chops. He's just not as fast, so he doesn't create them as much.

But I think they had a great draft. Yeah, you know, it's funny. You mentioned Phoenix a couple minutes ago, and I was kind of curious whether you guys felt like teams picking high up in the draft ever get um like kind of fall in love with what they've seen in the playoffs and start to like think about their lineups or their rosters in different ways and you know i i all like all this postseason i was just like enamored with how phoenix was just this incredibly elegant very traditional in some ways starting five like the the prototypical big man

the floor general volume score or two and these two really effective wings, like power wings that we can shoot and defend. And obviously any basketball team would want that lineup. But was there something about the dispersion of talent on Phoenix or the way that they added some veterans to a young core that you think anybody in this top 10 maybe was like, huh? Because the reason I'm asking this question, this is a very long question to get to somebody like, I don't know, like a Trey Murphy who, you know, like it's just,

just like a Virginia product can come in, immediately play with the Pelicans, and probably allows them a lot of flexibility and a lot more shooting than they had now that they've gotten off of Adams and Bloodsoe. And I have a feeling like Griffin was like watching the playoffs and was like, we're not that far away from that. You know what I mean? Murphy's headed to the Grizzlies, isn't he? I'm pretty sure. Oh, he gets swapped. I thought he got traded to the, to the Pelicans. I'm sorry. I thought that was the... It was the other way around. Oh, my bad. I'm pretty sure. It's okay. I mean, in terms of like roster building, though, I think it's still, you can, and we've seen like a blueprint for building like, okay, big time playmaker scored the two, like you said, rim running and drop defender who's versatile like Aiton.

If you have those pieces and you have a big that can catch the ball and you've got some guys that can catch and shoot like your Jay Crowders, like your Cam, you know, your Cam Johnson, your McKell. I think I was right. I think he's going to the Pells. Did I get it backwards? Maybe I did. I thought he was headed to the Grizzlies, but maybe I got it backwards. Anyway, but I think in terms of the template, for sure, it's a thing where you can build a system that works. Like, you can build a system that works, but like the jazz, but you still have to have those elite creators at the end of the day. And that's the thing that makes the difference. Like, if Bridges and Aiton ever get to the point where they can create their shot consistently, then Phoenix becomes something else. but for now they were a machine that kind of hit a wall

and got the water shut off at a certain point. And Janus was the waterman. Exactly. Yonis was like the water bill is due. Exactly. Let's go through some of these other picks here. Because like other like there weren't that many other trades. Obviously like there was the Rubio deal to Cleveland.

But more than anything, there was just like a lot of talk of stuff happening that didn't really come through. The Kings were in play for some stuff. Obviously like the buddy to the Lakers talk was happening earlier. they wind up taking Davian Mitchell who like was like I am like a real like weekender when it comes to the college basketball

stuff and pretty much watch the tournament but came out of the tournament being like my first born for Davian Mitchell like that dude is just like an amazing player was when you see him go to Sacramento do you think he's like a culture changer or do you think this is another dumb king's draft pick where now they have another guard

that they have to split time among so um shout to Davy on Mitch because we actually did us film a segment with him for Full Court Fits. Shout of Full Court Fits. Early in the week. Thank you. Appreciate that.

You know, met him at the Neiman Marcus here in Beverly Hills. Just, you know, a really grounded, solid kid shot the shit with him about what he was doing to get ready for the season. That's the West Side coming out now. That's your west of LeBreya is coming out now. Yeah, yeah. We went to South Beverly Grill right afterwards. So we joked about me meeting Kuminga, but Waz literally did meet Mitchell.

No, I did. I did. And he seems to be a grounded guy. And my favorite thing about him is the level of improvement that he's shown year over year, right? Like he had this situation at Auburn. He wasn't known to be some crazy, amazing shooter. He ends up shooting 45% from three, right? So that tells me this is a guy who's going to bust his hump to make sure that he stays in an NBA rotation,

which the Kings didn't draft him here to be some on-ball wizard, to be some multi-all-star guy. They want him to be a high-quality role player guy. And that's why I think it's a good pick to pair next to, Jesus, why am I drawing blank on this kid's name? Halliburton and Fox? Yes, Fox specifically, right? like the ball dominant guy who let's face it man he came in with a bit of a defensive reputation he hasn't shown that in the NBA so to pair him with the guy who he can take the you know the less favorable back court matchup I love that personally and again he's going to be low

maintenance he's not going to dribble dribble dribble he's going to shoot open shots and hopefully make him at the next level I was going to say I feel like he's probably a better fit with halberton honestly it makes me wonder if something's coming maybe potentially because I was talking with sharks about this. I was like, they could, you want to play them all together if you're taking a guy at seven, but the Kings obviously are like, you're not worrying tremendously about FIPP. That was a weird thing to me about it because it was like they didn't take the best player available. I don't think it's a question of Mitchell being a good player in the NBA. It's just at that spot. Maybe they could have gotten a little more value out of that. So what do you think, so is the best

player available at that spot Booknight? Because Booknight goes to Charlotte and now all of a sudden Charlotte has a pretty sick backward. Yes, I think Charlotte did good. I mean, that's something. and we can talk about more about a minute. But I mean, in terms of the best player available there, you can launch into a whole conversation here. I've been a really avid Zaire Williams defender, and Memphis took him at 10. You had people that really thought Moses Moody was a good option there.

Perk was definitely getting payoffs from Big Moody at some point during the evening. Perk, like, it seemed like somebody poured water on a computer at one point when he started saying Moses Moody. It was like the Westworld version of Perk came out. Yes, he just went nuts waiting for Anthony Hopkins come fix him. But I thought, yeah, I don't know. It seems like something might be coming. Maybe they could play them together like the way Phoenix played Bledso.

Bledsoe what was it? I'm sorry, I'm Drogich and IT a few years ago. You can try something like that. It doesn't make a ton of sense to me. But yeah. Tell me a little bit about Book Night going to Charlotte, Kyle. Book Knight alone to Charlotte, I wasn't, Book Knight's a guy I was a little bit lower on.

I think the people who really love Book Knight will tell you that like the shot creation upside is good. The good thing about it is that you've got basically a world-class playmaking mind, like a young one who needs to come along in Lamello and you put him next to, if you put Book Knight next to him there, I like it. Something about Book Knight also is that he didn't take a lot of open shot. He was probably relied on too much on a pretty mediocre Connecticut team, which sort of like drew out some of his weaknesses, I thought.

He is going to get a lot more open shots, I think, in this offense. I think Charlotte had a pretty good draft, in my opinion. We're coming up on midnight on the East Coast, so we're going to wrap it up soon. But if you guys in the chat have any questions for us, I'm happy to ask Waz or Kyle questions on behalf of the green room chat. Any other, like, picks that we haven't talked about that you guys wanted to chat about? I would love to know about the guy the Knicks took.

Okay. Which, Quentin Grimes? Yeah. For the New York faithful out there. It makes a lot of sense. I mean, he's like a, it makes sense that they took him. I don't know that I necessarily love it. But, I mean, they, when they, when I initially thought they were taking Keon Johnson, I was just like, what the fuck are they doing?

Because Keon Johnson, I mean, as good as he could be, just a big athlete who can't shoot dribble or pass at this point. I just thought that was, I was like, of course they did that. But they ended up trading him. But I mean, Quentin Grimes, he's like 6'5. He comes from a program at Houston that is like a big time grinder defense program. So he fits the Tibby and model in that sense. But he's a guy too that can give you some pick and roll creation on the other. end. I don't really love him as a jump shooter. He's not a tremendous athlete, but he fits the

Nick's style in that sense, too. They have enough athleticism around him. I think that he should be okay. I don't know that he's going to be a starter, but he should be okay. Okay, so let's going to go through a couple of these questions. Matt St. Louis has been asking for a better part of an hour for us to talk about Scotty Barnes. Who wants to take the Scotty Barnes torch and run with it? The floor is yours, Carl. Scotty Barnes, one of my guys. I mean, he's a big guy, probably 6-8-ish.

He has really, really big hands, really long wingspan. He's probably going to be, I could see him playing some small ball five. He was one of the best roller passers in college basketball this year. He's an animal. I mean, he could guard one through five. Legitimately, he guarded point guards at Florida State, and he can guard fives.

You know, Waz, we were talking about those kind of guys that could wall up bigs the way Draymond does. I hate doing the Draymond comp because I think in doing the Draymond comp, we reveal that we're misunderstanding what makes him so special. That's Draymond's brain that is so special. His body is good, but his brain is special. Scotty is a competitor. And I mean, Toronto is a really, really interesting team because I think, like we said,

I think it could mean that Siakum maybe is out of there. But I like the idea of him playing with, you know, Brad Van Vleek, Gary Trent, Chris Boucher. It's an interesting fit. Being coached by Nick Nurse, that's exciting. Hello, Nurse. You know, we have a couple of questions here about Pacers' trade, center trade, imminent. That Seacom, you just mentioned, you know, there's like every indication I would say that maybe Seaccom could be on the move.

That was a partner for the Wiggins, White, like Wiseman, some sort of like Golden State package for Seacom. So it will be interesting to see what moves get made next week. A couple of other questions we got here. Macy's been asking for a minute for us to talk about the Thunder. Macy, we did pretty, Waz really pushed himself out on an ice flow, talking about SGA a little earlier. Andrew Cooper is asking about, well, he's not really asking, but he did bring up Josh Primo, who is incredibly spursy,

like the where they took him and what he's doing. I'm starting to get a little bit like, are we pronouncing the Spurs dead yet? Are they on the morgue table? Can we get out the embalming fluid? Like, what's going on? I think they're like Sauron. They're just kind of taking another form.

That's kind of where we are. They're sort of just an apparition at this point. Isn't it bad if the guy who runs your franchise is just in Tokyo worrying about another team right now? Like I know Spurs culture and everything, but like, I mean, Primo's, go ahead, go ahead, Watson. No, to me, the Spurs magic kind of ran out when, you know, DeJante Murray didn't pop up magically with a crisp jump shot, right? I feel like that guy somehow becomes a quality jump shot shooter and therefore an all-star candidate in the old Spurs Juju, right?

I think it's kind of run its course. You know, he's still an elite defender and I still like him as a player. But I feel like to me, that's the number one guy I look at, like, back in the days, they would have turned that dude into something ridiculous. And that hasn't happened. You know, maybe the minus touch is gone.

Yeah, it's funny how, like, and, you know, I have nothing but respect for what they've accomplished over, like, the course of my life watching basketball. But it is, like, they've went from, like, they can fix anyone and turn anyone into a useful NBA player to like this just isn't working and they keep getting like players who were cool in 2003 and like their play style was cool in like 2003. Let's see. We got some other

questions. Andrew Cooper points out that Tim Duncan is gone. That's true. Spurs management is focused on all you can eat sushi trains. I mean it's easy to develop guys when you have a core triangle like that for role players to just plug in and out. of. I mean, Timmy is was, Popp has said this over and over again. Timmy is the reason it all happened. I mean, that's just, that's reality. Non-basketball briefly, I just want to say that I really appreciate homies in the green room chat, recognizing that while I may not know how to pick an NBA draft prospect, I do know how to pick a movie that's coming out later. How's a Gucci trailer dropped today? With Lady Gaga going like Sean Conry, Russian accent, even though.

she's Italian in the movie and it looks sick. I'm going to be there opening night with a giant cola and a popcorn. I can't wait for driver, Pacino, for Jared Leto, bald. Are you guys psyched for House of Gucci? Yeah, this is something I'm definitely going to watch the day that it drops on HBO Max. For sure. Absolutely. I am not giving my crib for this one, though.

But it looks dope. be, is it going to be behind the candelabra levels of weird? Like, like, like, no, I think it's going to be, it's going to be more just like straightforward, like thriller, like thriller. I don't think it's going to be like dark comedy like that. Kyle, can you do me a favor and give me like 15, 20 seconds on Jaden Springer, who probably won't be a sixer after it next week, but let's just say you. I was going to, are you trying to, you want to feel better? Is that what you say is you, yeah, I mean, you just want me to pump you up here?

No, I want you to give me your honest assessment, doctor. I really thought the Knicks were going to pick Jaden Springer. I mean, he has the potential to become the best on ball to Finner in the draft. I mean, he's a very, very talented, clever player. Offensively, I think he's got a little bit to go, a little ways to go. But that's my selling point to you is that I think Philly fans, if he stays, I know this is the cliche thing to appeal to Philly fans. But you guys are what a tough, hardworking city. Blue collar, lunchpin, bootstrap.

I think that's the selling point on. Yeah, exactly. I should have known better. That wasn't a high life. That's what I thought. Yeah, that's who Springer is. That's his superpower in the future. Yeah, I mean, he's going to be able to play.

Somebody said he's going to play straight away. I mean, his defense is going to give him the chance to do that for sure. All right. Matt St. Louis just said J.com managed the goat. I agree. Was any final thoughts on the draft today? Are you glad you experienced? it like what did you any any like big learnings big takeaways um not really i think back in the days

evan mobley would have probably been the number one pick when i was a kid yeah but now teams understand that you need that heliocentric wing player who's going to soak up possessions um you know watching atlanta do what they did this year just because trey young is that freaking good right like he makes you a quality offense by showing up. Luca and them were outmaned completely. They damn they stole that from the Clippers, who was everybody's pick basically, damnly to go to the finals. You know, I think teams understand now.

You need that amazing elite wing guy to soak up all your possessions and make you matter in the postseason. That's what I thought watching his draft. Like somebody is athletic and, you know, even to this point at his age, pretty damn skilled as Mowgli. in 2002 he would have went number one. That's a great answer to what bad question was. Congratulations, man.

Kyle, what about takeaways for you, man? Is it anticlimactic? Is it feel bittersweet when you get to the end of a draft? Sort of, I guess. I mean, you just kind of turn around and go for the next one. I never think of it as like starting and stopping. It's just like there's lulls, I guess. But we'll start.

But I'm always, I'm one of those people too. I just like inherently just enjoy keeping track of even the like the ones to come like the classes on the horizon. So it never really starts and stops. I'm excited about just starting over again and kind of. He's already breaking down chat film, Chris. No, I mean, I do enjoy that kind of thing. But yeah, it does feel like a nice exhale after after spending all that time kind of watch. I watch some of these dudes for like four years.

Yeah. I mean, so was there a guy who. went in the second round while we were recording. I'm sure you've been like kind of monitoring the picks that everybody on green room and listeners should immediately go watch their YouTube highlights because they maybe haven't seen them. A dude who you were like, I'm glad this guy got picked by an NBA team. I can't wait to see what happens with him. There are a few of them. I mean, people who were following some of our earlier NBA draft coverage from earlier in the week and I mean, now the draft's over. I don't know that you can go back and listen to that stuff. But I mean,

Jeremy Robinson Earl is a guy that I pegged as a guy who could play for a playoff team in the year future. Yeah, good player. I had two guys back to back that were like my sleeper picks that got picked the first two. Santiago Dama, I'm to the point with the Memphis Grizzlies that I respect their opinion so much that if I align with them, I feel good about myself. That's kind of how we are. But Santiago is a seven-footer from Spain who was like off the radar that was one of my

sleeper picks and they picked him. Check him out. Stretch five. shoots a super easy ball, like pretty impressive. And then Isaiah Todd, that was another guy that I think could be a really, really good player. And we, I think years from now, we could be shocked that he went in the second round. I think he's that kind of talent. Damn, did the Thunder really get Miles McBride? That's what I'm hearing. Yeah. I mean, that's a good pickup. They have a lot of, they have an odd collection of players, man. I mean,

I don't know. I mean, I don't know how you put a Dort maybe, what do we think is happening with door. I don't know. They just seem like a way station. They're like in purgatory there for NBA players. It'll be interesting to see what they do with all those dudes. Thanks to everybody on Green Room for hanging out with us late at night on the East Coast in the evening on the West Coast. Thank you so much to Kyle and Waz

for joining me today on The Answer. Be sure to check out the Ringer NBA show tomorrow Friday. Group chats coming at you. Obviously there was a bunch of bill pods today to check out with KOC and Ryan. We've got amazing, amazing stuff in the Ringer NBA draft guide on the site. Great.

you could go back, read about some of the guys. Maybe your team picked somebody you didn't know. All the information is there. We'll have tons of pieces on the ringer.com. Check out Waz with full court fits. Check out Kyle on a variety of Ringer NBA shows and his videos that you can find on our YouTube channel and check out me on the watch and the rewatchables and the answer.

So thank you so much for listening, and we'll talk to you guys soon.