The Ringer NBA Show - Who’s Afraid of the Big, Bad Clippers? Not the Nuggets. | Real Ones

Episode Date: September 14, 2020

Logan Murdock and Raja Bell hop on during this basketball-less Monday to figure out who’s to blame for the Clippers’ less-than-expected performance in the playoffs and what could sway Game 7 against the Nuggets (3:26), who the key players are in the upcoming Eastern Conference finals between the Heat and Celtics (30:49), and the aftermath of Houston’s unfruitful postseason (42:48). Then The Ringer’s Sean Yoo joins to pour out a little liquor for his Houston Rockets (56:29), and Logan and Raja each anoint their Real One of the Week (1:07:02).  Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: Sean Yoo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's popping? What's good? Welcome to the Ringer NBA show, the Monday edition. My name is Logan Murdoch. I'm a staff writer at the Ringer. I am joined, as always, by fellow staff writer, former NBA player, former lockdown defender, always rocking the open-toed sandals in January.

He got the Pock baldy going on right now that he claims that he cut himself. It's Roger Bell. It was good, bro. I'm chilling, bro. I had a nice. nice lineup yesterday. Self,

self done. You lined it up? I lined it up, bro, but it just, you know, it's not one of those. I don't have a blade. Like, I don't have an open blade,

so it was kind of a soft lineup. You can relate. I can't talk to my wife about this. She doesn't see the difference between a crisp line and a soft line. Yeah. So it was sufficient for the crib, but like once I figured I had to hop on with you,

I had to, we had to get rid of that thing. So it must have been kind of sussed. It was a solid, it was a solid, soft line. I didn't have a nice, you know, there was no sharp.

darkness to it though. Yeah, were you the team barber like during training camp or anything like that? Did they have those when you were playing? You know, because I know they didn't have like the barber on site like they do now. Were you the person that kind of got the team right? No, that was not me. I didn't have one when I played on any team in the NBA. Carlos Arroyo, shout out to my man Carlos.

Was our team barber in college, though. He had good all haircuts. Okay. Do you have a person? So you never had a personal barber? personal barber man what are you no dog look i i played on 10 days man you never flew out a barber i had i had two so i one time i was in l.a right um and grant hill i needed to cut bad and i had never really went to l a need in the cut so grant sent like a cat like his barber to my room

to give me a and i was basic cable so it was just a basic like you know kind of tape out the neck and you know line it up tight my man was like yeah that's gonna be a hundred I said, what? I was like, never again. Taxed. I'd be right at your barbershop waiting like everybody else. Bro, not even get an appointment, just like, y'all be here. It's all good.

I'm walking. That's right. Now, that's so triggering, bro, because haircuts have gone from, like, when I was, even when I was a kid to, like, $10, $15 to now they, like, $30, 35. You over here got to do, like, their special powder you got to put on your head now for lineups. They're doing an extra, like, shaving. I don't even know what's going on.

I miss my $10. haircuts. I know that's right. With a cigarette and like a Hawaiian punch, right? And yeah, that was my barber experience, bro. He could stop at any time to just like have a smoke break while you got to just charge it to the game when he started talking. You just got to charge it to the game. You're going to be there for an hour, no matter if it's a line or actual cut. You've built that into your day, so you already know. You already knew what it was. Right. This is this is the content you can only get on the Monday edition of the Ringer NBA show, part of the Ringer podcast network and Spotify. Make sure you tap into all of our other Ringer NBA shows, the mismatch group chat.

Even we do instant reactions, Roger. You weren't there on Friday, but me and Kevin O'Connor, we did it. We did an instant reaction emergency show. You need to tap into that. All y'all need to tap into that. There we go. You know what I mean? Let's get it right into it.

The Clippers are some J-cats. I feel like you take pleasure in this. Like, you are getting enjoyed this. I'm not taking pleasure in this. Okay, I'm going to keep it a buck. I am taking pleasure in being. Right. I do like that. You know what I mean? I will say that. I'm not, I'm just, they are who we thought they were. There are some J-cats. They're acting like some real, they're fumble in the bag, all sorts of bags. They stuck their chest out. Remember in Summer League, Raja? The Clipper stuck their chest out. They walked in front of LeBron and A.D. and Coos gave the dab, but like it was like the, it was like the, uh, the Tupac Dap from Juice where he looks into the camera like, oh. They did all that.

They talked so much mess about load management. We're going to be all right. L-A-R-Way. And they're about to fumble the bag before they even get to play to Lakers in the conference finals. So you were correct in reading kind of the situation on this. Look, you have some cats that can do it. And I talk about this all the time, flipping switch,

flipping us that proverbial switch from, like, we didn't play great throughout the year. but come playoff time, I'm going into, like, LeBron mode. Like, LeBron does that. Kauai can miss 30 games during a regular season and be, like, as locked in as he ever was and be ready to go in the playoffs. Not everyone can do that, right? And so I think the Clippers may be a casualty of having a bunch of cats who thought it

was just going to be cake, and your star, he can do that. Like, Kauai is fully capable. But I don't even think Paul George is capable of that. He's been, like, Playoff P has been pretty good. But I don't think he can flip that switch. And so you're playing with fire when you're going through the regular season being as inconsistent as they were up until the break. And then, you know, coming into the bubble, you've kind of looked the same way. It's not like you've even really hit a true stride like the Miami Heat have, if you will, like since the bubble started.

And so, you know, yeah, you were right. Hey, what can I say? You know the biggest difference between Kauai and LeBron and all those other big names you named instead of like, Paul George's and all these other things, all these other people on the clippers. You know what the biggest difference is? Kauai and LeBron are champions. They can afford to act that way. You know what I mean?

They've been there before. They know what it is. And that was just my biggest, oh, like, I think the, I love the clippers and how they are constructed and all these things. I love it. You know, they have basically two teams. They have a bench and then they have a starting unit who can compete with each other. In theory.

In theory, right? theory. But I don't get, I just don't get why they, not, there's no sense of urgency. And then there's times where they play incredible defense. They lock down for quarters at a time. They've even done that in the stretches this series and games that they've lost against the Nuggets. And we're speaking on this after the Clippers lost two straight games and they've lost game six to, to the Nuggets to force a game seven that will be played on Tuesday. I don't, I just don't get it. I just feel like that they need to lock in and they just never do on an extended period of time. All right, well, let me ask you a question because you're right again. I hate, like, I don't like having to say

you're right over and over again, but you've painted me in a corner here. Okay, here we go. What you're describing isn't just a player issue. While, in fact, you're right about the players not having won championships, and it is really hard if you haven't to know exactly what it takes.

I would say the consistency, what you just described, a consistent effort, you know, not being the Dr. and Jekyll and Mr. Hyde type of team throughout the regular season. That's not all on players, right? Some of that falls to your culture, your coaching. Like, how much of it do you put on doc at this point? And how much is just on the players thinking there's something they're not? But that's something that we've, a lot of criticism we've heard in the wake of this latest loss is Doc Rivers. Doc Rivers is a top five coach in this league. I don't think that there's any denying that.

We saw what he did with last year's Clippers team. I think the biggest thing that I am concerned about is when you talk about, I don't know how to get that energy back or I don't know what's going on with the energy level right now in the playoffs. This is the semifinals. This is the Western Conference semifinals. you are the second best team in the West. You guys have championship aspirations. You don't need to have to find the energy. It should already be there right now. And that's what's concerning to me. Yeah.

So I'm with you and I think Doc is an excellent coach. I do think excellent coaches can find themselves in a situation where the message that you preach isn't getting through the way it used to for one reason or another. I attribute this one to the personnel moves that they made in the offseason. For me, it's kind of like last year's Celtics team. In 2018, you had a group of guys that were us against the world, a bunch of nobody, so to speak, all bought into the way they had to play to be successful. And Brad Stevens was really successful in preaching a message to that.

Then you brought in a star like Kyrie, right? And it just changed the dynamics in your. locker room. It changed the way guys were going to organically approach playing every game because there's cachet there. I've achieved. So I'm not going to like necessarily buy in to have to do it like this. And so I, you know, at the time when they brought Kauai in, well, I know you need Kauai. And I know you need Paul George to eventually get over the hump and win the championship. You really are playing with fire there in terms of changing that chemistry that you had last year. And I think you changed it. You were a grit and grind type of basketball team last.

year for everything you got and you were able to kind of exceed expectations with that. When you brought in an upper echelon type of player, I think Doc kind of lost, he lost the message in there. But there's a thing that like you, what do you do, not go get Kauai and PG? No, no. Like that's the conundrum that you face, right? Correct. You have to figure out how you're going to adjust and keep that mindset going.

And I still think, I don't think that Doc needs to be fired necessarily. I think that he's a great coach, and I think that he can build with this team. But this 2020 and the 2015 season are both on his resume. If he loses on Tuesday night, that means that two, three, one leads lost during his tenure, right? Yeah, that's a fact. Like, if Doc loses tomorrow night, I'm not saying he deserves to be fired because I don't believe that. I'm a big believer, and it's his first year with the team, give him a second year to figure it out. But he's opened himself up then for the critics to be heard.

You know what I mean? Like there's some, you've now given them some, you've given some value to what they're saying. Yeah, but I think Doc is one of those foundational type coaches that stays with the team for years. I think that his resume speaks for itself. I feel like he should, he should be able to stay no matter what happens. No, I'm with you, but there's validity. Like, that's the word I was looking for.

Like, when you have your critics, and you and I are sitting here defending, if he should lose in a game seven, and you got the two, three-one comebacks on your resume. Like, there's validity now. Like, we have to at least have the conversation. That's true. One of the things that he's doing, though,

that I just can't, I just can't wrap my mind around is he keeps putting Montres Harrell back in the game. Montres Harrell during this series, or during game six, This is a par of Kevin O'Connor. He was minus 20 and Matra's Harrow minutes. They are a minus 61 in the playoffs. Every time he got on the floor, the Nuggets made a run.

You're proposing. You're just proposing he stopped playing him. Yeah. All right. So here's where I, this is my beef. Okay. And this is another thing. And I do want to have this conversation with you.

I couldn't wait to get here. Get it. Let's get it. Let's get it. Let's get it. Let's get it. I just think that there is a reason why. and some people just can't be they played him off the floor

Zubotch has been better on the floor right the number suggested and the eye test suggested Roger let's get in your bag because I know I see you I see you just raring at the mouth just let's go let's get it it is really difficult Montrose Harald's a six minute a year and he's produced for you for

solid two years now like I can't remember three years back. But for two years, he's been like an integral part of what you do. He's kind of like the backbone of your mentality there, the type of guy the way your team plays.

And he hasn't been successful in this series. I'm not arguing that the numbers don't support that. But this is where like analytics for me, like you got to be real careful with them. Like Doc, Doc knows his team. And it's hard for a guy to just break with that. I'm not saying did he, I'm not saying that he's right or wrong.

I'm just saying as a coach who's like said, look, man, Logan is my guy. This is what Logan brings to this team. These are Logan's minutes. Like, it's really hard just because he hasn't been great recently to be like, all right, we're just scrapping that. Like, maybe he should. And it might be the downfall of the team.

You might bear out that you're correcting that. I'm just saying from a coach's perspective, you don't want to lose it. That's a lot to ask somebody to do, dog. Yeah, you do run the risk of really losing someone when you do that. I get that argument. I think just from a standpoint of he's just not, like, what do you do as a coach when that's, and that was one of the questions here, what do you do as a coach when one of your main contributors is unplayable? Like, what do you do?

Because he's not, he's not playing great defensive, has not been a strong suit of his just throughout his career. But he's also not giving you your offense. He's all, he's, his, I think his points have gone down from 19 a game to 10. Yeah. He's not giving you your offense and he's not playing defense. So what do you do? Yeah, I don't, I mean, what I would do with, with him is sit down and just have a real conversation about this one game, like, scenario that we're in and what I need you to do in these minutes. Like, first of all, let you know that I got your back.

Like, I'm, we ride with you, bro. Like, you've been an important part of what we do. You're a part of this culture. We have faith in you, all right? Like, for whatever reason, it hasn't worked. But let me just show you how I need you to affect this game. for Montrez for me, you know, and after you say that, you can scale his minutes back if you need to, Logan. Like, you don't have to take them all the way, but you could scale them back.

Like, you could cut him by 30% or so. And it'll, he won't really feel that. But then you let him know, like, listen, it's about energy with you. Like, I don't need you to try to score 19 points a game. I need energy. I need you to affect pick and roll. I need you to affect the ball at the rim. I need you to be drawing charges. Like just submit to being an energy guy for a game because his energy, you don't have it from a lot of places on that team. You know, you need that. So just dive into that role and then offensively, we're going to keep it simple. Like we just want, we're picking rolling with you. Okay. So you pick, get to the front of the rim. If you can get me eight there on finishes and maybe, you know, four more on offensive rebounds or free throws, we're good.

Don't worry about shit else. Just do that. And then feel him out as he plays the game, right? And so like I said, if it's producing, you're straight. And if you're not, and if he's not, then you scale him back. But you can't just sit him. But I don't know. But I think the argument, though, is if he's a good teammate, if he is, I don't even want to say a good teammate. Because, you know, I don't want to go down that row. But if you say you're that guy, wouldn't you sit on the bench for the greater good?

Because, you know, I hate to bring this to the Lakers and the Clippers, you know, the little rivalry. But Frank Vogel saw how bad. of a fit Dwight and Javelle were in that in that Rocket series and just benched them straight up. Neither one of them is six man of the year, bro. To answer your question, if you're a great teammate, you're going to do whatever a coach asks you to do to win a game. It's more nuanced than that, though, man. But it is more nuanced.

I get what you're saying in the sense that Trez is thinking, I'm six man in a year. I can contribute. I am one of the best players on this team. In fact, I'm the reason or one of the ones. one of the reasons why Kauai and PG wanted to come here because I was bawling out of control last year. I helped build this and this year. Yes. So I do get on that standpoint because you could still be a great teammate and think those thoughts.

100%. I know where you're coming from and I don't know that I even support my own argument by wanting him to play more. I'm just, I'm trying to look at it from the coach's perspective, A, really difficult because this is my guy. Like there were plenty of times in my career where like Mike D. Antony, like I'm 0 for 10 from the three point line in Oklahoma City like or oh for nine. And Mike DeAntonia is like, listen, the next. And I'm down and you could tell him down. My body language sucks. And he's like, you're a 40% three point shooter. Like just keep shooting. I want you to shoot it every time you touch it. And I went 0 for 10. But then the next night in L.A. I was like seven for nine. And I got close. You know, the point was without Mike having my back like. that. Like, he, I could have been lost. I don't know. But coaches, if he had just quit on me there, who knows what I could be from Mike. So I'm looking at it through that lens and I'm looking at it through a player lens. And, you know, it's just not that easy. But I do support if the numbers don't bear it out, at least scaling it back some. Yeah. We'll see what happens.

And I just think that adjustment just needs to be made, even just take his minutes down. Because every time Trez was on the floor, the nuggets were coming back. That's why they pay Dr. the big bucks though, bro. Figure it out. Yeah, man, it must be nice. But I think that, I do want to hear about this, though, with you with the game sevens, right?

They're going into a game seven. This is a sour subject, as you know, Raja, but you have been a part of a team that has come back from a 3-1 deficit. Really? Yes. Yes, you are. Strange.

And, yes. We don't need to talk about the, against who or whatever, but you did do that. What is a mindset? said one when you're down 3-1 and then going into a game 7. Oh, man, down 3-1, you just got to get one. Like, we got to, you know, it is what it is, right?

If you don't get this one, you're going to go home. And it's really, I always found the way the pressure, like, kind of flips from game to game in a series to be really interesting. Like, there's really no pressure on you down 3-1. I mean, you're supposed to lose, you know what I'm saying? So, like, you go out there and you throw all your haymakers. Are people making trips? Are they making reservations?

What about when you're down 3-0? If you're down, yeah, if you're on 3-0, it's a rat. But if you're a championship type of team, I wouldn't imagine. Now, I was on some bad teams, and we got down 3-1. Like, we were the 8-seat. I've got my vacation plan. Like, you know what I mean? But 3-1, no pressure.

Go out there, swing them. And eventually the pressure. How was it when you guys were down, you know, 3-1-2 to Lakers? and that. See, all right, what happened in that Lakers series, like in the way I see it, like as the Sons, I don't think we've fully respected the Lakers.

I know that sounds crazy because they had COVID and all that. Why you didn't put no respect on the Lakers? Tell me, how did y'all not respect the Lakers? Well, I'm going to get to, like, we, and this is, look, I didn't have a disrespect, but as I reflect on the way we treated it, the series that is, like,

we were bugging out. Like, we went out there for the first round with, like, With all of our wives, we stayed out in Santa Monica at the Lowe's, which is a great hotel, but we don't normally stay there. Like that was more of like a vacation type of trip, right? Like everybody was out there, families and all of that. And then before you know it, you're in a hole, right?

Like you've lost and it's, it's, it's, you're like, well, quick, quickly, I just want to give context before we do this. This was the 2006 first round against the Lakers. The Phoenix Suns were a two seed and the Lakers were a seven seed, but they had Kobe Bryant. They had Kobe Bryant. And so, I mean, we didn't make that call as a team, and it didn't really register with me then. Where do you all normally stay? We would have stayed at the Ritz Marina Del Rey or we would have stayed at the Beverly Wilshire. And for people who don't really know, because they're both, like the lows is just on the beach, right? So like it's a

little bit more vacation-y, right? It's a little bit more of a vibe. You're always treating like a regular season game. Yeah, not even. Like real talk, we don't stay at that place during the regular season. You would stay in a more confined environment where like we're here to play basketball. And I thought like we treated that. And the wives didn't come on every trip, right? So like the fact that you had your family and your wives there, you were saying in a different place, I think we took it for granted.

So, you know, before you know it, we got popped in the face. But 3-1 is, 3-1 is pressure on them. Let's come out and swing these bows. They'll get tight because they got to try to close this out. 3-2. So 3-1, 3-1 is the, let's do this for context, because 3-1 was a home game for you guys, right? 3-1 was a home game, yes. That's when you got into your little, you feel me.

And how was that after game five? You guys, I think you guys beat the Lakers' handily in game five. And then game six, you're going, you're at the hotel, and Kobe's just going off. Yeah, that sucked for me. I didn't even get to stay in the hotel. They made me check out. Are you serious? Where did you so?

Okay, give me that story. Okay. So, like, the suns made me check out of my hotel. So I went across the street from the Beverly Wilshire to, I don't know what that little plaza is right there. But there was like a little restaurant upstairs. So I met my publicist, and we watched the game at a bar. Wait. Were you outside, though?

Or did you have a little private room? No, I was sitting at the bar with just everybody, right? And so what do people? Do people see you? No one knew who I was. No one knew who I was. So this is a funny story, but a true story. I go to the bathroom. I don't know, third quarter or some shit like that. And I'm in there. A dude is washing his hands. So I'm waiting to wash my hands. And he's got a buddy standing by the door. And they still haven't recognized me, but he's got my name in his mouth. And he's talking shit about what happened with Kobe. and I'm standing behind him waiting to wash my hands

and he looks up in the mirror and I was just, I was just ice grilling him and he was like, he looked like he saw a fucking ghost and I was like, oh man, it's all good, bro. Because I'm not like that. Like on the court I am. You want to scare him a little bit, though, obviously. Yeah, I did, I did.

I looked at, I shot him the glance, but then I was like, though, bro, don't worry about it, man, it's all good. And so I went back and had my beard. He was like, fuck Roger Bell, huh? Essentially, yeah. He called me some other, some other shit, and then we kept a movie.

He'd call you at your name. Did he? Yeah, he did. That would have been. No, he called me, I don't remember verbatim what it was, but he said something reckless to his friend, because otherwise I wouldn't even, you know, shot him to glance. But I shot it to him. He felt terrible. You could tell he was shook. And so I just fucking let it.

I laughed it off and kept him moving. And when you, so are you trying to contain your excitement when the Lakers are like fumbling the bag? Because I think that game six went to overtime. Lakers was to win that game. Kobe balled out. Were you going hard or were you like, yo, I'm gonna chill, I'm chilling, you know what I mean? No, I was, I was reserved, but super excited.

Like, I was celebrating at the bar. I just wasn't, like, loud and obnoxious with it. You know what I mean? And then I quickly hopped in a car and beat the team to the plane. And there's video somewhere of me, like... I've seen that video, yeah. Bugging out when I see him on the tarmac.

Because, I mean, I could have fucked. I mean, I came as close to fucking up as serious as you could come, like single-handedly. Wait, I do want to go back to game The Kobe Buzzer Beater game. Kobe buzzer beater game. That's when he does the fist.

He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. What was that game? I was game four. Was it? Yeah. I was game four, huh? Okay. So when that happens, what's the locker room?

Like, are y'all stuck? Are y'all shook? We're shook. We're shook. Like, you're in the moment right after the game, you're like, this shit's a wrap. You're not saying that to each other, But everyone's having that.

Like, you're down 3-1. Like, the immediate response is like, oh, fuck, this is a rap. But, you know, you quickly realize that shit ain't a rap. You get your little address from Mike and the rest of the dues. And then you're like, well, you know, there's still life. Like, we got to, you know, we just got to dig ourselves up out of this hole. But you down 3-1, darling, human nature is you, you fuck this up. You could see if you go look back at that clip of Kobe hitting it, there's like a pan to Tim Thomas.

And then there's a pan to Steve. and they're both like just shell-shocked. Yes. Yes. Well, we did not think there was a chance that we'd be in a series. Like, I didn't. You know?

And that was a tough, that was me and Boris, I think, right? Like, that was me with a hand up and Boris coming like over the top. Cohn made some credible shots. He had that fade away, but the layup that he hit when he just threw it to the roof

and it went in was crazy. He was a shot maker, bro. Like just an assassin, man, an assassin. You were on the Cavs when, when they came back from 3-1, right? No, I had resigned, but I was there. I went to the game, I took my boys up to the games. But I wasn't in the organization anymore.

Oh, okay, okay. Well, was it like seeing that, though? Were you in Oakland? You came up to Oakland and went to Cleveland, or did you just? I was in Miami, so I was just going up to Cleveland to see the games. Oh, okay, okay. So how was that just to see all, you know, all homies just win one like that? That was pretty cool, man.

It was, you know, because the year before that, we felt like had we not lost Kyrie in game one, like we thought we should have won that, you know what I mean? You know, how to two one lead? Yeah, and not to mention, you know, Kevin Love went down early with the old Kelly Olenick, like I'm going to yank your arm out of socket. Why doesn't that ever get the dirt like it deserves?

But people like to say my shit was dirty. I was, look, that man pulls somebody's arm out of socket, dog. Like, why doesn't that happen? But anyway, we felt like we should have won that. I mean, you closed line of dude, but it ain't like you hurt his neck or anything. Correct. Correct. But we felt like we should have won. So to see those cats pull from 3-1 was pretty cool. And then obviously I have relationships in Cleveland that made it that much sweeter for me to see the David Griffin's, the Kobe Altman's and Trent Reddins win. But you know, like what you're doing there in a game seven and what it boils down to is like, LeBron's going to be LeBron. Kawhi is going to be Kawhi.

You know what I mean? Like Nikola Yokic is going to be Nikola Yokic in that game. What can you do as like a complimentary player to support? Because it's going to boil down to a star being a star. And then who can get the most support? And it doesn't have to be 30-point games. But in your role on that team, can you like compartmentalize and just see game seven?

and be the best player in your role that you can be. Because that's what's gotten you guys there. And if you can go out there and execute it in a one game sample size, you really do have a good chance of your team winning. If you're caught up in all the rest of the shit going on in game seven, and, you know, I got to be dope. I got to get, like, if you start bugging out, like you're going to use a Loganism, you're going to fumble the bag.

You cannot fumble the bag. Don't do that. Don't fumble the bag. Before we move on, Roger, let's hear a word from our sponsors. Today's episode of the Ringer NBA show is brought to you by Fanduel. We're teaming up with Fandul again this football season, but we've got something new this time around. All season long, you can play the free Ringer mega contest on Fandle.

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So I'm looking over the schedule, and these are some of the locks that I have. There's two matchups between black quarterbacks this week. We got Cam and Russell in Seattle. I'm taking Russell Wilson over Cam Newton. That's my lock. My other lock is Lamar Jackson and the Baltimore Ravens over the Sean Watson and the Houston, Texas. I really like the Ravens. They have a really solid defense with Marcus Peters and have a very dynamic quarterback in Lamar Jackson.

And this is what I'm staying away from. I'm staying away from the Panthers and Buccaneers. because I have no idea what Tom Brady is yet. I think you should stay away from that too. You can also get in if you miss week one. It's not too late. The top 100 make the playoffs to compete for a share of $25,000. Play the ringer mega contest for free every week only on Fanduel.

Go to fan duel.com backslash mega contest to make your picks today. That's Fanduil.com backslash mega contest. This episode is also brought to you by Square. You might know Square is that little white reader that you put on your phones, maybe your iPad. But Square has a lot more tools that can help your business, especially now that businesses are having to figure out when and how to make things work in this new normal.

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about this. There's the Miami Heat and the Boston Celtics. Yeah. Eastern Conference Finals. This is going to be lit. Should be lit. I think that I'm on record saying that I have the Miami Heat winning this one going to the finals. But I do want to get into some Who Would You Rather Have? Let's get into this. Okay. You're going into seven-game series.

We're talking about this series. Just this one. We're not talking about how old these players are. We're not talking about their ceiling. We're talking about in this seven-game series, who are you taking? And then we'll go about who I'm taking. All right.

Jason Tatum or is Jimmy Butler? Right now. Jimmy Butler, bro. And I'm taking Jimmy Butler because I know Jason Tatum has probably the higher ceiling. I know Jason Tatum is a is a is a burgeoning star in the NBA. Like I know Jason Tatum has all this upside. But right now Jimmy Butler is is probably the most important player in that bubble.

Like next to LeBron. He is. Ooh, why you say that? What? Why you say that? Why next to LeBron? Because without LeBron, like I don't give a day. Like I like Anthony Davis, but without LeBron, the Lakers, that shit don't work.

Jimmy Butler is the heart and solo with the Miami he does. He is the glue of that team and the best player of that team in terms of like personality, the way they're going to conduct themselves when they're on the court, the culture that they try to exude. And so if his scoring is off, I know he does everything else to impact the game. If Jason Tatum doesn't score,

I don't like watching that Toronto series, like he looked confused and he didn't look like he had the same impact on the game. Yeah, I really like, I really like Butler in this situation. And I really want to pick Tatum because of all the things that you said, but this is about this series. This is about this. And there's something about, as you know, just being there. It's something about being there before and knowing what the playoffs are like. And not to say that Tatum doesn't, he's obviously had big, big, big series in the playoffs.

It's one thing to say that you've been there before, but also, seen the light at the end of the tunnel. Like, Jimmy is closer to the end of his career than he is at the beginning. And that plays a role. So I'm taking Jimmy in this. I'm with you. It's an experience arc, right? Like, where are you in your experience?

And I think Jason Tatum is still on the upswing. Like, he's got some more, you know, failures and successes to, like, round out who he is. Jimmy Butler knows who he is in the playoffs, though. You put that in a bank. Let's go another one. Jalen Brown or Bametabio. Hey, yo. You go first.

I'm going Jaylen Brown. And I know people are going to say that because, you know, Bam is the flavor of the moment. But, Bam, I mean, I would say Jalen because he has a more refined game at this point in his career. It is what it is. That's the type of player he is. I think that he can get you to jump shot. He has a three-point shot that he has gotten so much better at.

Bam, he has a quirky little mid-range game. He can't really extend out. I'm going Jalen for the series. Bro, I'm with you again. I love BAM. I'm with you again. I love Banda bio. Yeah.

I think BAM, here's the problem when you put BAM against, if you would put BAM against Tice, then it's a no brainer. I'm taking BAM, right? But in a series where you don't really have a Janus or somebody like that on Boston, and I think it's going to be a wide open. Both teams want to have playmaking, shot creating, like, players. I'm with you. I think Jalen's better in that space.

I think he's, you know, he's a dynamic. athlete at the rim. He held the Celtics down, you know, through the playoffs offensively. Could have been an all-star in his own right this year. In this series, I'm taking him. If you're talking about, like, you know, BAM or Jalen over the course of a career, you know, maybe I take BAM, but for this series, I'm going to take Jalen. I mean, there's a case for BAM, though. He's the only one in this series that can initiate offense from the post. Will they, though? See, I think that's why I'm taking Jailen, right? I don't see either one of those teams really trying to play like that.

You don't see them working through BAM at all? Sometimes, but not enough to dictate the outcome of the series. Like they're not going to just go shack 1999 on you. You know what I mean? That's true. But still, like, if you need it, it's weird out of the post, how the post game has gone. You trust BAM out of bio, like down the stretch. You just give BAM the ball on the block and that's what you're going to do.

No, absolutely not. Absolutely not. I'm giving them the ball of Jimmy Butler for the last seven minutes of the game every time. we go. Let's go Kimba or Drogic? I'm taking Gorin Drogich. I'm taking, yeah. Are you serious right now? I am serious right now. Look what that man's done in the bubble. Yo, bro, this is the thing, bro. This is the Phoenix bias

right now. This is the Phoenix bias. And I don't, I don't know how I feel about this. Dog, look. And I'm, I mean, I could say this in the same breath. I like Kemba. Kemba looked out of sorts in that entire series. Hit some timely shots in game seven when he got opened, partly because of like the boxing one they were implying on him. But I think Drogis

just really hit his strive for the heat. And what he does, especially when he's making threes for them, really complements the rest of what they have. So I'm going to take, I'm going to take Goran in it. I'm taking Kimba, man. I ain't mad at you. Kimba has led multiple franchises as their guy. To what?

He's gotten farther than Corindragic was as the guy. Is that a fact? Where has Kemba got? I am a Kemba fan, but I know you're going to have to prove that one. Yeah, he's got a... Nah, you're right. I'm trying to make this, this, this... You can take Kimba, but don't do that.

I'll take a Kimba, though. I'll take a Kimba, though. I'll say that I'll take a Kimba. That's a bet. Hey, look... I'll take a Kimba, bro. That one is a toss-up, like, Bam and Jalen for me. I think Jimmy Butler... I think, honestly, though, man, you could take either one, Kimball or Josh.

I'm trying to make this case for Kimba. There you go. Do it. Did Gorin Drogic have a final four the way Kamba did? No, he did not because he did not play in college. He had a Slovenian four. Did he? You're part of the scouting on that?

Did you scout them? Oh, man. That's funny. All right, all, man. Let me do one. Let me do one. I'm a tee up, bro. I'm a tee up.

So you all steal the, the coach Stevens or Spowe. And this is, these are two great coaches, bro. Like who? This is, listen. I am inclined to take Spow just off GP, but when you really like analyze it, it's really a toss-up, bro. I've taken Spoh.

Yeah, I... But Brad Stevens has never had the talent that Spow has had. Brad Stevens has never had the talent that Spow has had. Yes, that's a fact. Like you've had, yeah, that's a fact. You had DeWade alone, and then you had DeWay, LeBron, and Chris Bosch. Even if I wanted to, I couldn't debate that. So you're correct.

I would say that even when Spoh had teams that didn't have that talent, always competitive. I live in the Miami market. I'm always hearing them lobby for a tanking situation. And it doesn't matter. Like, they're always competitive. They're always a team where you're like, damn, like the heat could knock somebody off. So I'm taking Spow 2 because of the championship pedigree, though, bro. No one, everyone gives the benefit of the doubt to the coach that,

overachieves with his roster, right? That wins without a star. I'm giving more credit to Spowe for winning with the stars that he had. You're Tilewing it? You know what I mean? You're Tilewing that. You remember that, right?

When Ty Loo said it's a harder job. I don't know if it's a harder job. I mean, I'd assume it's a harder job. All I've been around is winners, but, you know, I don't know. I would say, though, that he deserves more credit, Spow does, dealing with LeBron in that first year, because LeBron, that was the most stable coach that LeBron has ever had

where the organization was like, hey, bro, you're going to have to chill out. Yes. Right? And they all harbored a little resentment for the way it was handled. I know that for a fact. Like I've talked to some of them do

is like the way the heat worked kind of wore thin on some of those cats. LeBron, when he got to Cleveland, wanted his guys back in the building and on the planes and shit like that. That's a big reason why he left. Yeah, but it worked, to your point, it worked. Like, they got it.

They had the singular focus. I'm going to say, I'm going to say Spoh in this instance. I can't argue. I'm going to Spo, too. I think you've got championship. Why are we agreeing so much, Raja? Well, because you find that, I mean, you're having a good day. Oh.

All right, bro. All right, right. Oh, shit. Yo, man. Go ahead. Let's get. I have one more. All right.

Can we get to the next segment? Smart or Tyler Hero? Mark is smart. I'm taking Tyler Hero. Yeah, okay. Go ahead. Let's go. You want me to make the case?

We always do this stuff, and I know this is a pro-Bossed Celtics site that we're on, but damn it, I got stuff to say. Go ahead, yeah. Let it off your chance. Marcus Smart cannot shoot the way Tyler Hero goes. All he has is the intangibles, and that's what Boston Celtics fans just love. Oh, my goodness. He's the big intangibles guy, right?

Yep. Tyler Hero gets buckets, ladies and gentlemen. That's why I'm picking Tyler Hero. Tyler Hero is a really good young player. He's 2021? Really good young player, man. Super talented. He has some dog in him.

He's a at best serviceable defender right now. That's at best. I'm probably given the benefit of the doubt there. He does make shots, but I would tell you, Marcus Smart has been making shots. Bro, go look at the last series against Toronto. Like Marcus Smart has been holding it down

from the three-point line from game to game. And he is the guy that is going to, You need intangibles guy? But again, I would ask the question, if Tyler Hero, the same way I said about taking Jimmy Butler over Jason Tatum, if Tyler Hero isn't making shots, what impact is he going to have on the game?

Fair point. I don't know. And so I'm going to go with a cat that can fill both boxes for me. He's going to possibly get buckets, but if he doesn't, I know he is going to disrupt some shit defensively. There's real AAU-A-U-Dad vibes in this one right now. You love the kid. I bet you love the kid that

is four of 14, But he gets you eight rebounds and four steals. It's funny because that's not even how I coach. Like I would make the case for him on the pod and then I come back and contradict myself like in my own game later. Are you Roger Dan Tony on the AAU scene? No, like we're getting buckets. You give me the kid who could get buckets. I'm good.

We're good to go. I'll figure it out. Are you wait, but are you the guy that's like, you know, just are you all running set plays and stuff? You know, like Kobe was running the triangle on his AAU team. Listen, yes. But when my kids were in the third grade, not that we're talking about. like I believed in teaching them how to play offense. So we come down.

We know how to diagnose defenses. Like my kids know when they see an odd front of zone, what they're going to do when they see an even front of zone, how they handle it. If it's man to man, we run Utah sets. Like we run Boston, you know,

like just pick and roll every time down the floor for you? No, we'll go pick and roll when we got a big who can't defend. We'll go pick and roll. But like we're running sets to get easy buckets, right? And then our D is we're a lockdown D. team, so we're creating offense with defense, but when we get in that half-core, we're an offense, bro.

Okay, so you, do you want to market smart type on your team? Yeah, I do. I need to disruptor, man. I need somebody out there that's just, he's in the shit. Okay. You need somebody that's with the shits and always in the shit. Always in the shit. Let's talk about Houston.

All right. This is low-key of flex right now. Houston lost in five games to the Lakers. Okay. A couple days after that, Mike Dan Tony becomes a... what is reported as a coaching free agent. Early leader in the clubhouse for me, real one of the week, by the way, Mike Danton.

Is that right? That's gangster, bro. You ain't going to extend me. I'm a lame duck as a coach. Like, I'm out. I'm a free agent. He had a statement that I really like. It's what a, I mean,

it's an incredible sadness and gratitude that my wife, Laurel and I announced our incredible journey and Houston has ended for now. And we'll be moving on to a new chapter. That's so gangster. That's so gangster. That's so gangster. Mike and Laurel, great people, bro.

A lot of gratitude that I'm leaving. A lot of gratitude. Houston, I just, and I, you know, I've seen them just from the other side. I have so many feelings on Houston. On the one hand, I think that they, during this last four or five years stretch, are some real ones because they were the only team that was not scared of Golden State. The big bad wolf of the world. Western Conference throughout all these years.

On the other hand, I am just disgusted with how they treat their people, man. Dan Tony was one of the best coaches, is one of the best coaches in organization history, got them to the conference finals, and I just don't feel like you, you treat your coaches like this. Yeah. You should it on him. Like, you didn't extend him. You scrapped his whole roster.

you handed him like a small ball on the fly like you i mean what was he supposed to do with that yeah and then he's and then he gets all that blame right and you can kind of tell it was it was definitely some last dance vibes with him you know when he was talking about especially for the rockins team as a whole this is the team that went all in to trade in trade russell westbrook trade for russell westbrook threw away their whole future for this guy then that doesn't work out Mike D'Antony gets most of the blame. You have a new ownership group where Fletla, it's just not working. You know, I don't know how the finances are there within this, in this global pandemic.

I don't know what's going on. Yep. It's not good in Houston right now. Is this an organization that is promising right now? Because to me, they're not. No, they're not. There's not a lot of promise. Look, there's not a lot of promise when you start with James Hardin as a, as a,

phenomenal score when it doesn't matter. Like, I mean, I don't want to be that way, but that's what that looks like to me when you score Uber buckets through the regular season and through playoffs that are relatively easy series. And then I've got enough of a sample size now of big games where it don't look like you want the smoke. Like, you know what I mean? And so that is, that's a problem in and of itself.

But let's just, let's keep going. I will say this, though. I will say in the last, in the last elimination game, he showed up. Nah. No? Yeah. I think he did. Yeah.

Okay. Good. Like. And the last two, he showed up. The last two? Yes. Go look at the, go look at the stats for when they lost the Warriors last year. Go ahead.

All right. All right. Okay. Okay. So apologies to James Harden. But here, how can you defend what happened prior to that? Like, when, when you have real opportunities and, you don't want the ball.

Like, how do you defend that? And I've never been that guy. So, like, forgive me for sounding like, I know what I would do. But, like, I don't see a lot of stars saying, here, man, like, the one time I remember it was when Kobe did it. But Kobe was saying, F you. Like, you know what I mean? Like, Kobe was.

He was like, yo, all right, Phil, you don't want me shooting? I'll pass. Look what happens when I pass. Like, I didn't get that vibe from James Hardin. But anyway, another argument for another time. Like, you got, you know, Westbrook who clearly doesn't play the way you want to play, like, as a franchise. Like, he's not an analytically driven team. Like, Darryl Morey, your analytics 101, you're going to trade for the most analytically, like, incorrect player in the NBA, possibly.

And I love Russell Westbrook. I really do. I think spirit, like, game, like, you know, like, he just, he's an animal, but he doesn't fit what you're trying to do there. So, you know, that's interesting. And then, you know, you just got a bunch of other pieces that just are okay. Yeah. I don't, what are you going to do? Yeah.

For Tita's money, he's all made in restaurant. He's a restaurateur, dude. Like, his pockets are bleeding right now. Has to be. Has to be bleeding. What are you going to do? I don't know. Just, and that's another thing.

I do want to talk about Russell Westbrook for a second. He didn't, he shot 40% from the field. not even 25% from three-point range in the conference semifinals. You juxtapose that with Chris Paul, who he was traded for, averaged 21 on 48%. And nearly could have beat,

nearly you could make the argument should have beaten the rockets. When you take that sample size, it's tough to justify having to pay Russell Westbrook over $130 million over the next three years. what do you do?

And I do want to preface this, and I do want to make sure that, you know, Russell did say that he was, you know, going through injuries during this time, did say he had COVID, I mean,

he did have COVID-19, which we both know, you know, just from experience, that's not that we had it, but more so of just people that have been around us, right? Yes.

Who have had it. It's a tough thing to go through. It's not just a regular flu when you just straight. Like, there are lingering effects from everything that we've read and everything that we've seen

you know, that this is not a virus to be messed with. I hate to say I'm going to give Russ a pass because I'm not a, by nature, I don't love giving everybody a pass, but what you cannot tell is how much of that physical, I haven't seen a player look great physically and then five months later come back and just not look like he was the same guy unless he wasn't able to like do what he needed. to do to stay in shape. Now, you know, once you're older, older, older in your career stuff starts to happen. But, you know, my experience with people who have had that virus saying it lingers for a while, I have to account that in for, at minimum, not being able to, like, train the way

you need to train to be in, having said that he wasn't very good. He said he couldn't train for 20 days. Like, the coronavirus aside, if a professional athlete can't train for 20 days leading up to a season, that's a big deal. It's a big deal. That's a huge deal. That's a huge deal. dude like you don't you know you don't get that time back and and your you know training is building off of the day before that so you're you're you're behind in a big way um i think if you're the rock is though logan i'm being you know just you're gonna have to philosophically change the way you play to incorporate russell westbrook and get the most value out of him while still maintaining like the value that that james hardin brings to the table right and so that's

going to require a lot of roster turnover. I don't know that you, you don't have anything to go out and make any real splashes, but you've got to find some of those fringe players that are more complimentary in terms of the style that's going to get the best out of both of them. I don't, you know, that's the best way I could put it. I have a question for you. All right. We know that the Rockets have mortgaged their entire future for Russell Westbrook, who hasn't played well. In the bubble. In the bubble. In the bubble. Hasn't played well in the bubble, but also hasn't played well in the postseason over the last few years. Okay, fair enough.

Do you just say, if you're an executive, do you just say, someone says, y'all, I'll take Russ and James Hardin off your hands and give you a boatload of draft days. Would you take that deal? I would take the deal. Oh! I would take the deal. Why would you take the deal? Saw old clip of Kobe on Instagram.

I don't know if you saw it when he was sitting down with, what was he sitting down with Tracy McGrady? I think Rachel Nichols was asking him about that style winning championships. I've said it too. Like, it's not winning. Like, you're not winning. Mike came as close as you could in the series that you alluded to against Golden State. Like, you don't maintain that window of opportunity.

You give me a franchise that's had his window open, you know, for five, six, seven years. That doesn't have somebody named LeBron or MJ or Tim Duncan. Or Tim Duncan, right. Like, you know, and so I just think if you're the Rockets, You're faced with, all right, do we want to stay exciting and say that we have like one of the best scores in the league on our team, even though we're not going to win like that? Or should we start the quest maybe get like financially less strapped and start building it maybe the right way? And at this point, I'm probably building it the right way. Building off that, when did you, when do you know that a run is over from personal experience or an opportunity is done?

I think for me it was for me with the suns is the only real experience. I have because I was, you know, a journeyman. So I wasn't around long enough in some of those spots to really, the run started to be over for us when turnover started to take place. Like, like major turnover. Like, so it was Mike D. Antony, we lost the coach, right? And now Mike's gone again. It was when Sarver says that I'm not giving you no bread.

Yeah, it was such a shitty move. There's such a shitty move on. Like, it was within his rights to do, but he executed it so poorly. They said it before to me, which is wild. It was so, oh, just so, like, man. And, and then, you know, we brought in Shaq, which is a major, you know, it's, it's not the way you're, we were playing, right? And so you start to see philosophically that, that, like, everybody isn't aligned. And that's kind of when you started to feel it. I didn't know it at the time. Um, but when Terry Porter came in and it was

obvious that like, you know, we had a, we had, you know, we called it pistol, you know, we called it 21. Under Mike's vernacular, it's just a play where, you know, Steve kicks it ahead to me. I flip it back to Steve. I come off a flare screen. They run into a screen and roll with Steve. It's basic NBA action. But just the vernacular, we were told when Terry came in, we were going to keep almost everything the same, but he was just going to have a little bit more defensive backbone. Well, Terry Porter set it down in like the first meeting at University of Arizona and training camp and began telling me and whoever else, that's a bad shot. We can't shoot that shot. like this is a bad shot we can't and you're like wait that's what Mike wants us like that's what we

were based on you know so you are philosophically changing the way we play probably time to go you know figure something else out and I feel like the the Rockets kind of did that yeah yeah honestly it seemed over last year yeah when when they lost I thought that I thought two years ago was their best shot where they lost and you know they fumbled a bag in a game seven because I think they win the 2018 finals if they beat the Warriors. I think that they sweep the Cavs as well. But I think it's over, man. And one of those things that you see after a playoff loss is people always want to tell you what you should or shouldn't be doing.

And the rap on James Hardin is, you know, it's going to be all right. He's going to hit the club after this. He really doesn't care. Right? And they lost the game and there was a pitcher that surfaced at alongside the good folks at Turkey Leghut in Houston and fine establishment in Houston. I'm not sure. Turkey Leggut? Yes.

Okay. And it's James Harden living his best life at a table. He's throwing up the peace sign smiling. Right? Right. Is that a big deal? It's absolutely not a big deal. I get it, man.

Basketball junkies, or just not even basketball. football junkies. Excuse me. But fans in general think that like because you lose a game, your life is supposed to end for, I don't know, whatever their required amount of grieving time is for the season. Listen, man, I did my best. Like I tried to win.

We lost. My life goes on. I got shit to do. I got places to be. Like, I'm not sitting around. Like, I don't have to feel great about the loss. But that doesn't mean I got a hole up in my house and become a hermit because, like, you think I need to.

Did that ever happen where you was just outside after y'all lost? And people was like, what are you doing, Roger? Why aren't you serious about the game? No, I never got that because I would have told somebody in no uncertain terms to back the F up. Like, I look, I try my heart out. What are you doing, man? Your baby needs diapers. Why are you out here?

But no, I didn't get that. But I understand that there are a lot of people that feel that way. And I just, look, man, it's our job. We, you know, like, you don't go home if you don't execute the right, like, trade and, like, not show your face for three days. You know what I mean? Like, if you're a stockbroker or something, life goes on, bro, you keep it moving. So I don't have a beef with that at all. I don't have a beef with it either.

Let's take a quick break, and we're going to pour out some liquor from the Houston Rockets. We are back. I got my smart water here. I think, Raja, he's on a different time. He got some Hennessy over there. We are welcoming a guest. It took us a long time to trying to search and pry and find this guy. We found a Rockets fan, Sean Yu, friend of the show, producer at the ringer, in charge of all of our video content.

He's here to vent and to hopefully pour out some liquor and get some stuff off his chest for his beloved rockets who have fumbled the bag yet again. Sean, thanks for coming on the show, bro. The floor is yours. Talk about your Rockets. Logan, Raja, first off, thanks for having me on. Thanks for allowing this therapy session that we'll be doing this morning. Look, here's what I'll say,

and here's what I'll say for every year since 2012 when James Hardin got to the Rockets is that the fact that we've even been in these quote-unquote championship level discussions is a win in my mind. We shouldn't have been there. We shouldn't have been in these conversations, especially during the Warrior saga and the fact that LeBron James is still in this NBA. We should not be here and yet we are and we are being talked about as the secondary tier

between the top two or three teams. And so for me, I as an optimistic fan, see that as a win. What continues every year since 2012 continues to eat at me and deteriorate my soul at times is the general public reaction towards the Rockets. And look, half of that is warranted. And that is warranted in the style of play. And the way three main guys, Russell Westbrook most recently, but James Hardin and Eric Gordon continue to play in terms of searching for calls

and asking for calls on countless number of plays. I totally get fan frustration and how aesthetically unpleasing the Rockets may be at times to watch basketball. But there's at times a level of hate that is extremely unwarranted to players like James Hardin, who is being doubled in every series since last year, maybe even two years before that, is surrounded by role players whose only job is to play defense and hit threes. and their days, well, they'll play defense, but there's days they won't hit threes, vice versa. And on top of that is every time they bring in a superstar for him,

quote unquote superstar, you see Chris Paul last year, who, you know, gets injured his hamstring, you know, his hamstring fails him and he struggles at times. He probably should have, we probably should have won game six and game seven against that Warriors team. And then you come back to this year, flash forward to this year, where Russell Westbrook disappears. He completely disappears for both series.

And you can say what you want about his quad injury. He's still out there on the floor and he's still unable to dribble. And so for me, a lot of it of the frustration of Hardin, yeah, I'm sure in my mind, a quarter of it, I understand it. But there's a lot of hate that is unnecessary and warranted. And he has just become the scapegoat for a lot of people on NBA Twitter. And so for me, I personally, we were never going to beat the Lakers. We were never going to beat the Clippers.

Five games, look, as a fan, I would have loved to see six, or competitive six or competitive seven. But we didn't get that. And am I unhappy? Yes. But I'm just more angered and unhappy with the fan reaction, which happens constantly year in and year out to Houston fans, especially Rockets fans.

Houston fans are the victim. And no, look, look, I, I, I am only a rocket fan. I'm not from Houston. I have no affiliation with Houston. So on that, I'll go on record, I will say, fuck the Houston Astros for life. You know, that's just like what I'll say as a Yankee fan. But with the Rockets going back to Basel, it's just, I don't know, like people hate what, people hate new things. And whatever the style of basketball that people are not willing to accept yet,

I think people should recognize that this is already happening and people are already changing. The fact that the Lakers adjusted to the Rockets game plan and did not play a center means there's actually some chain. Like they had to physically adjust their rotation and roster. So this change is happening already. But now, again, what my venting will lead to is the offseason is going to be a freaking mess for the Rockets. Wow. Are you even going to be a Rockets fan by the next season? Honestly, I don't know.

I really don't know. It depends on how they decide to support and carry James Hardin from here on now because... So that was going to go lead to my next question. Let's hear it. Yeah. Before we get to this, TD said, this is a hot take from TDR producer that says nothing to do with me or Raja. These don't reflect our views at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hardin is the perimeter, Janus, aka that shit don't work in the playoffs. Oh. Whoa. Okay. And, I mean, that's a very fair take. Wow. It is in my mind. Because for Hardin's game, if you just look at it from a basketball standpoint,

is he's an isolation player. What happens when you double him? You literally takes out his one part of the game. And regardless of how many pick and rolls you put him through, if they're either going to switch your hedge on every pick and roll and send two to three bodies and have a guy waiting at the free throw line, it's impossible for anyone to do anything. And you saw that with Yonis.

They build a wall. It's impossible to do anything. Now, what he could do, and what Kevin O'Connor stated in our restart video on Russell Westbrook is, is James should do what he did on the Thunder in terms of playing off Ballmore and being a guy who's running baseline coming off of screens, not being at the middle or on the wing set pieces for each game. And that's a little bit of my frustration with Dan Tony is he's very much a guy who I'm sure Raja can speak on this is he's, I don't know. know if stubborn is the right word, but he picks a system and he sticks with that system. And inevitably, if that system doesn't work, you see it in every, you know, post-game interview or every interview where he talks is, well, we're lacking effort, we're lacking spirit, we're missing out on a few plays here and there, blah, blah, blah. But he's never saying anything on an

adjustment on his whole system. And I think that kind of open-mindedness, especially in the postseason where you have to change and you have to adjust should and probably could have happened. And this year was, I thought, heading into the bubble the year where it might have, because for the first time in Dan Tony's tenure, he built in set plays. During the bubble, we worked out, like the Rockets worked out two or three set plays with Russ and Hardin, which they've never done. And in my mind, I felt very open-minded. But again, it's the playoffs and, you know, things happen.

All right. Well, thank you, Sean. What's you got? What's you got? I got the smart water. He got the heem. What would you pouring right now? What we got? Look, I'm pouring one out for Dan Tony because I do love and respect him. I think he is a great basketball mind. And I think he's one of the best player coaches in the league. I am generally, genuinely sad to see him go. I'm going to also pour one out for Darrell Mori because he is one of the best GMs in the NBA. one of the most open-minded, one of the most willing to make moves. I read, I was listening during the game that he made the most trades, you know, in the last three or four years, some crazy stat like that. But, and he follows me on Twitter, too, which is like, I feel very fortunate.

That's the only reason why you're doing this, but okay. No, no, no, but, but I'm going to pour one out because I'm pretty sure he's, he might lose his job. I'm pretty sure there's a chance that there's a clear, a clear overhaul with management. And, you know, I'll say this on record, Tillman, for Tita is a nutcase and a real a real piece of shit. But I don't think, I don't think his basketball mind is really going to help the rockets out. And in his mind, he probably feels really embarrassed about how the Rockets played because he just sees things the way Twitter sees things.

And his owner brain is just going to be like, you're fired, you're fired, you're fired, clear house, which in my mind isn't the best thing for the rocket. So for Darrell Mori, if you do end up losing your job this off season, just know we love you and we appreciate you and we know that the best is yet to come for you because you're a really smart guy. Yeah. And then the final one I'm going to pour out is because I think

James Hardin is doing everything right for given his abilities and he improved his defense. But Russell Westbrook, this is for you. This is for you during your off season. I do love you. I do respect you, but you have a lot to work on and

you have a lot to fix. And I know I know that's a lot coming from a guy, from a guy who just plays pickup, you know, here and there. And what do I know about Basso? But my guy, like, you've lost your physical peak. Your step isn't there. And so if you don't adjust your game in this offseason, your career might not be as long as you hoped. Oh.

You need to adjust your game. You need to be smart enough to realize when your body is not doing the things that used to do, you have to change your way you play. And me as a 29-year-old guy who plays pickup, I'm realizing that. I'm realizing where the game has, the game might have slowed down for me mentally because I've, you know, become a little smarter and older. My body is able to do the same things as I once was able to do. And the wise and smart players who have long, legitimate careers are the ones who are able to realize that quicker than later. And I hope Russ in this off season, you do that and you don't, you don't stay a little too stubborn and prideful in your way. Well, that was Sean you.

Strong. That was very strong. Thank you for coming, man. You can see his work. He does video work with the Ringer and also the restart with Kevin O'Connor. Tab in, it's time for Rear One of the Week, Raja. No doubt. Where we shout out someone that exemplifies the excellence that we bring on the Monday Ringer NBA show.

I got minds, but I want to give you the floor. Who is your Wirwin of the Week? Okay, well, I touched on Mike D'Antony just because I did think that that was really gangster what he did there in Houston. But I'm going to give a shout out to another former athlete turned media member. I saw Ryan Clark the other day

up on one of the shows he was on. He was talking about the fan response to the locked arms for the National Anthem in the Kansas City Texans game. Yeah. And the booing. there wasn't anybody kneeling like there wasn't anybody doing any of the

like quote unquote disrespectful to the flag type of things it was just arms locked in unity and he finally came out and said you know like what it is that the reason people were booing is because you were locked in arms for unity for black people and like I don't know why

like that's so hard and why no one's ever said it like but his point was like if NFL players locked arms for like autism awareness or breast cancer or anything else that was a really good cause because he's been locked in arms with his brothers for those causes, that it's a celebrated thing. And just because of the reason for the locking of arms, like people booed. And I thought he was a real one for that.

Definitely a real one for that. I loved all those points that he made. He made a really great point specifically with the locking arms, man. if it's breast cancer awareness, a non-controversial, but great initiative. Yep. It would have been all good. And so, we're one of the week for me is the queen, Naomi Osaka. Oh, yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're in the 2020 U.S. Open after a massive comeback to win that. But more importantly, she's a real one for me because she's using her platform, Russia. During her matches, she wore masks with the names of Brianna Taylor, Elijah McLean, Trayvon Martin, Amad Aubrey, George Floyd, and Philando Castile, all people who have been killed at the hands of cops. And when you look at Naomi, she's nervous, but she absolutely knows her place in this world and what she can do to give voice to a lot of the voiceless. And I am so proud to see that from our athletes, especially one as young as she is. She has been great with that. Last month, she refused to compete at the Western and Southern Open after Jacob Blake was killed in Wisconsin.

And she only played after the tournament gave a, took a full day off in solidarity. So she is using her platform and she's winning. So shout out to Naomi Osaka, killing it. And she also wore a Kobe Bryant jersey during all her games during the tournament for inspiration. Yeah, that's pretty dope. Shout out to Naomi Osaka, my ruin of the week. All right. And that has been it for this edition of the Ringer NBA show, the Monday edition.

Make sure that you tap into the other editions and the other shows on the Ringer NBA show, the mismatch, which is on every Tuesday, and group chat, which is on Wednesday. And we got a lot of content for you there. And you can listen to all our podcasts on the Spotify network and wherever you get podcasts. And we will see you next Monday.