The Ringer NBA Show - Why Doc Rivers Is an Upgrade for the Bucks and What It’s Like to Deal With Trade Rumors as a Player | Real Ones

Episode Date: January 25, 2024

Logan and Raja discuss why the Milwaukee Bucks fired first-year head coach Adrian Griffin halfway into the season, whether the decision was ultimately justified, and if Doc Rivers is a better long-term fit for the Eastern conference contender (2:16). Along the way, the guys talk about how difficult it is to balance the demands of a star player with the needs of the rest of the franchise (14:30). Next, Raja explains what’s going through a player’s mind as the trade deadline approaches and the nerves that accompany that stretch of the season (28:15). Finally, the guys close with their Real Ones of the Week (47:43). Email us questions for Mailbag Monday! [e-mail] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout ringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, guys, it's your boy Johnny Bananas, and I'll be covering all the treachery, deceit, backstabbing, and murder from season two of the Traders U.S. on my podcast, death taxes, and bananas. I'll be joined all season by my fellow castmates to swap stories, provide all the behind-the-scenes antics, and sorted details from filming. So, Sally Fourth, and join me for Season 2 of the Traders every Saturday on the Ringer reality TV podcast feed. What's up, real ones? What's popping? Did you just take my... You take my what's popping? Thursday, Real Ones.

All right. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell there. Roger. Man. I don't even know where to start here. I'm at a loss for words. First of all, shout out to the Bell household for all the milestones that are happening right now. If you want to see, go on Roger's story on his Instagram, which is verified.

Check out what's going on over the... they're in the bail household. Really happy for everyone involved there. Thank you. When we got off, I think it, like, I think it was Tuesday. I don't know the days. But I get a text. I'm in the movies.

I'm watching American fiction, right? Which is a great movie. You guys should just go watch that. I don't know if you've peaked it yet. It was really good movie. Yeah, it's on the list. I got a little matinee vibe. I was like, you know what, man?

It kind of got a little day off. Ain't nobody, ain't nobody, ain't nothing happening today. I got to go to no games. I take a little matinee. And so I put my phone on, I do not disturb it. when I get out of that thing, all I see is a text from Roger that says, my guy Griff. Now, I immediately Google search New Orleans.

Because usually when, usually when what Roger says Griff, it has to do with, with Griffin, with Griff. My other guy, that's your always. And so I go, I'm like, it doesn't happen in New Orleans. Why would they fire Griff? That doesn't make any sense. And then I look, I'm still discombobulated being in a dark for two hours. And then I look and then I see the news that Adrian Griffin has been relieved of his duties from the Milwaukee Bucks after helping post the second best record in the Eastern Conference.

We're going to dive into all of this. But Rajat, what were your reaction? What were all your feels? how did you feel when you saw the news and what does it say about a team midseason doing this? That's really, it's really complicated. It's really complicated. And I had a lot of different, a lot of different emotions.

I mean, I'm not great friends with Adrian Griffin, but I play with him. I spent a year with him in Dallas. I know what he's about. I know what he had to do to make the league. I know what he put stock in. And I tend to think that all of the stuff that he talks about put stock in and is about our championship DNA,

type of things. I'm not in that locker room though and I don't know, you know, how he manages, how he creates culture, like what he's doing. And so in fairness, you know, I don't know whether he mismanaged that situation. So to your question about how did I feel, one, I felt bad for Griff. I mean, I know how long he's worked and been a, you know, an integral member of different staffs and how long he's waited for the opportunity to sit in that chair. I felt awful that it, that it ended like that at this point in the season. And it was just not a great look. On the other hand, I wasn't totally surprised.

I've been on this podcast before. And I've said something's not right. Like that Terry Stott's situation at the beginning of the season, I don't know why it wasn't a bigger story than it was. That speaks to something being very, very wrong in a situation with the new head coach. What is wrong? I don't know. I'm not there.

But something's not right. I had mixed emotions about the job itself. On one hand, I'm telling you from Milwaukee's perspective, that's not a great hire. I don't care how impressive Griff is. That's not a great hire. The point where he's at in his coaching career does not sync up or match with the point that you are at in your championship window with Janus, Dame, Brooke Lopez, Bobby Porter's, Chris Middleton. It just doesn't make sense. It didn't make sense.

And on the flip side of it, for Griff, that's not a great job to take for where you are as a coach trying to get in that chair for your first job. But I understand why you have to take it. Like a lot of times, and this is complicated, coaches, young coaches don't have the luxury of picking a situation that is set up for success. Now, you'd say like, yeah, well, he is set up for success. He's got Janus. He's got Dame. He's got all of these pieces. But with that comes a ton of pressure that for a first time head coach might not lend itself to be in the most successful environment to learn on the fly.

And so, I mean, I gave you a really convoluted and complicated answer because it was, you know, I ran the gamut of emotions when I saw that. I really did. Yeah. It's interesting the first thing that you said was, or one of the first things that you said was he was not the right coach for that. particular job. And I think I want to give even more context to what you just said, right? Like, Griff, no matter what,

probably would have been better suited for a younger and up-and-coming roster because I don't think what people realize with first-year head coaches is they don't know what they don't know. And then when you have all the pressure of a Janus and a dame,

that really, you know, that can get to you for any coach. And I want to tell the timeline of events as I know it and then we can go from there. So you brought up Terry Stats. That's where this all starts. That situation is where it all starts, right? Because started at a practice or shoot around, I believe, in Oklahoma City where they, Griff and Terry Stats gets into it.

everything that I've heard and has been reported is that Terry Stats was talking to some players and Griff showed him up, like yelled at him. And let's say for context, Terry Stott's is a guy that coach Damien Lillard, usually when you have a young coach, and he was hired before Damian Lillard got traded there. Whenever you usually hire a young coach, you put an established person as their number two to be their eyes and ears. Very respected vet, Terry Stott's, almost universally

around the lead. Right. So he gets hired, then Dame comes. Griff feels like he has to look over his shoulder, right? And that's very nuanced. You could say that, hey, man, you probably should have a bit more, if they hired you to be the top guy, you should have a bit

more trust in the team that hired you, right? Like, you should have that, right? So that begins this string of paranoia on Griff's end. And from the moment that Terry Stats is let or quits, let go, however you want to put it, Griff is in a position where he needs a lead assistant. And the team is trying to get a lead assistant. One of those lead assistants that they're trying to pursue is Doc Rivers. The bucks bet with Doc Rivers in Vegas during the end season tournament. At to be his to be his to be

the lead assistant. Griff was like, no. And then he finally gets his own guy to be the lead assistant. Griff does. And then you put Doc Rivers in this mentorship role unpaid. It's kind of weird because he's also working at ESPN as this is happening. And it's very messy. And then he loses the locker room, right? Griff loses the locker room. The same guys, Janus, who advocated for him to come in the first place. He loses Janice. He loses the rest of the locker room. And then he gets fired.

As that's happening, Doc Rivers is already in line to take the job. So that's the timeline as I know it. And it's interesting because it's really, you know this, Roger. It's really, really nuanced in this. This business can be a dirty business, right? So I do see why Griff is looking over his shoulder

and wants his own guy as a number one. I also see from a team perspective, it's like, yo, you are a young coach, you need help from an established person. It's just an overall messy situation. You hit the nail on the head. Griff, and I hope he gets another opportunity. You never can tell in this league.

But you went wrong when you hired a dude who you had to have a veteran assistant with for a team that is trying to win a championship right now. I mean, I don't, that, that's not the type of coach that that roster needed at that point. So with all of those moving parts and all of that, that, you know, all of that kind of chaos in terms of leadership, I mean, that creates, it creates those kind of voids where you could get paranoid and you could start looking over your shoulder. Like, I mean, it was created. Yeah. How do you navigate through that, right? Because like, when as a young coach or even a coach in general, like, when you're looking

over your shoulder in the way that Griff seemed to be looking over the shoulder. And also, like, I'm not, I'm trying to stay down the middle here because I do see what, where, I do see where Griff messed up. I do see where the team didn't really give him, put him in a young coach in a position to where he can't really coach the team. And once he loses the locker room, it's over. It is over no matter what the record is. I mean, you've seen that with, you've seen that in Cleveland.

Doesn't matter what the record is necessarily. If you lose a locker room, it's over with. So now Doc Rivers is in the fold. How does he, coach this team on the fly and try to gain trust and try to gain all these things. I mean, Doc Rivers is a beloved figure in the league from players, coaches, front office people alike. He's also a guy that has struggled in the postseason, which is what this team needs to not do. They can't have another collapse in the way that Doc Rivers has had collapses.

How do they remedy this on the fly going into the All-Star break, the Milwaukee? hockey bucks. I mean, I've never been tasked with something like this, but from my personal experience with, with a mid-season change, you know, with, I've talked about it at length with Jerry Sloan to Tyrone Corbyn. And my other experience with a head coach change would have been Mike Dantone to Terry Porter. The one consistent, um, thread in what they did that slightly turned people off that were already there was they were kind of heavy-handed. So, like, it was more change than less. And so I would just say, if you asked me about Doc, I would think less is more, if that makes sense. You fired a whole staff? Like, what do you do, though? No. No, no, no, no, no. No. We just,

less is more in terms of, let's backtrack for a second. I'm sorry, but this is the only way my brain will process this. We talked about Adrian Griffin. And when we were kind of poking around at it early, the Terry Stott's thing happened. And I said, hey, look, what I hope he's not in there doing is trying to change a bunch of stuff, trying to change the verbiage that they might use for pistol. Like we called it 21. And, you know, Terry Porter insisted on calling a pistol.

And we're like, we've called it 21 for three years. Like, why do we have to change? Like, if you're in there just doing things for the sake of doing it, with a team that has achieved as much as that team has in recent past, it'll start to wear on people. I don't know that Griff was or wasn't, but when you come in now as Doc Rivers, take, don't do that.

Come in with less is more approach. Hey, what are we doing that works, guys? What do we like? Be very collaborative. Hey, what do we like? What do we don't? What do we not like? Let's dig into this as a staff.

Let's get the analytics guys to run the numbers. Let's get some tape. Let me sit down and see what parts of what we're doing are good, like where the bones are solid and where, you know, these things are kind of rotted. And if you can come in there and do that and not try to reinvent the wheel as a coach and say, all right, guys, we're going to start from the ground up and we're going to re-frame this house and we're going to start like a training camp again.

Here's my philosophy. That's not going to work. That ain't it. That ain't it. But that's why Doc's perfect for this job, I think, right now on the fly. Because he's got that Ty Lou type of. I mean, Tyloo was kind of brought up under Doc, right? Like they've got this great ability.

He's a cool ass cat. Doc Rivers is so cool, man. What do you see if he's the cool as a fan? Whatever you want to say about him as a coach, he is a cool ass cat who can relate. And part of this is, I talk about it all the time, it's relationships. So a long-winded answer to your short question,

come in with the less is more approach. We're going to be very collaborative. I'm not trying to reinvent anything that's happened here. We're going to look at the defense. We're going to play to the numbers. If they suggest that, you know, what we were doing, under Bud was the more productive way to defend

and we're going to go back to doing that. Like it's not going to be, hey, this is my philosophy, so we got to do that. I'm going to play to you guys' strengths. I'm going to put you guys in the best positions to be successful. And then I'm going to get the fuck out of the way. It's just, it's interesting. You brought up Bud, and he probably looking the best out of all of this, right? Like, I was right

here. I did good. I was here. What the fuck? Like, you guys did all this to pay three coaches. Well, what I can't what I, yeah, I mean, look, I thought that was ridiculous. I thought it was one of the most ridiculous fires. But I, admittedly, I don't have any background on what his relationship was like, where him and Janice were. You know what I mean?

Like those things are important to a franchise too. But at face value in terms of like coaching and shit like that, I mean, that was ridiculous. One of the other things that I thought about, right, is the power that a superstar player wields in this situation. Because the center of this all is Janus, right? who wanted at Griff, Adrian Griffin in the fold. He's going into a

contract situation. I think he's in the last year. It was deal going into this year. The bucks, he has all the leverage. So the bucks have to do what Janus says. They sign Janus surely thereafter to a five-year extension. And at that point, Griff has no leverage. He's kind of out to dry,

right? Like, once Janus signed, it was very tough for Griff because we basically got what we got what we really wanted, which is Janus Toussine. And then once Janice Sowers on a guy, it's over and he's fired. How does that, like, illustrate the power that the modern player has? And does the modern player need that much power? Like, because, like, at the expense of one player, it messes up to continuity because then

you fire a good coach like Bud or you part ways with a coach like Bud. then you get a coach that you, I mean, the Bucks want to Nick Nurse. And Yonis was like, no, I don't want to play for Dick Nurse, right? Who is probably a better coach on paper and probably better for this situation. And now you're in a position where you haven't an experienced coach. You have to go through all of this stuff just because of what your star player told you. What is the balance that a team needs to have in that relationship? Balance.

Balance is a great word because there has to be balance. If your star has you in a position where to get him to resign, you have to acquiesce to the demands. Like, that's a tough spot in today's NBA. It's a tough spot to watch Yanis walk out the door because you're saying, you know, we have a different vision than Janus, at least for the head coaching, you know, position. And so I don't have a great answer for you in that, Logan. I would say that, and I've said before, I think it's very responsible. for ownership and the executives in an organization to counsel or run things by your franchise player

in a way that you can get his temperature on it, not in a way that he has to sign off on it before you can do it. Again, I use the word collaborative. This is our thing. while I own it and Logan might run it, the person out there really making the donuts is Yonis. So we're all in this together. I'm not going to try to big dog you.

But at the same time, you know, my job is to make the money, write the checks and kind of stay out of the way. Logan's job is to have a vision for what pieces go together, what coaches can make it work, and execute that under the constraints of the salary cap. Janice, your job is the hoop. Do it at a really high level and trust that we have your best interest in mind. And if you don't have that type of relationship, it could be very difficult for people to do their job in a responsible way. I heard yesterday that Griff, and I'm not reporting anything, so forgive me if this is wrong, but I heard that he interviewed like an exorbitant amount of time for that job.

That says one thing to me. Somebody knew he wasn't the one for the job. Right. You got to interview 14 times for a job. Like, that's crazy. And not because Griff's not a good young coach that will be a good coach, but because it just didn't align with where you were. And so if someone knew that and had to keep bringing back for that many interviews,

you know, I then do worry about like whether Janus is controlling what's going on there too much. And, you know, Janus is interesting because he doesn't project like LeBron does. Right. He's not out there wearing it like in the media and unabashedly telling you like, hey, bro, he's not doing that. But he's definitely doing it. He's definitely doing it though, but not in the proverbial like I'm sending sub-tweets. But he's doing it. He's doing it and it gets messy.

Look, I get it. Yonis might be a great businessman. LeBron is clearly a great businessman. That doesn't mean that you're great at running a basketball franchise. And quite frankly, just because someone sits in the seat of a person running a basketball. about franchise. We've got examples over the course of history. That don't mean you're good at that shit either. But the point is you've been hired to do it. We've had success here. You've been doing a good job. I've been handling my business. Me as an owner, I've proven to both of you

that I'll spare no expense and I'll sign off on anything that gets us closer to it. So let's all do our job and stay out of each other's lane to the best ability, you know, to our best ability. And I think, I think they were, there was a little overstep this time. What did you See, because, like, on paper, you look at the record for the Milwaukee Bucks. It's great. I mean, if you, like, Adrian Griffin, I don't think people realize it was going to be the Eastern Conference All-Stars coach if this stuff, right? Like, right?

This wasn't a bad team. This wasn't a bad year. Right? Like, though, just let me coach the All-Star game, man. Let me get that on my resume. Bro. Shit. Do this shit after the break.

Right. So he went from, like, that to now. being out of a job, right? But what was the disconnect from the record that we see, Raj to the actual play? Because even as the record was good, you were like on this program saying, nah, it's saying it. This is not it. Like, this defense is not it.

And even when I saw them at the end season tournament, and I'll say this, I don't know if he, I don't know if Griff knew that they were. I know, he did know. He knew that they were interviewing Doc at the moment in Vegas, right? So like, as you're in the end season tournament, you know that like this team, you guys not on the same page. And that manifested with him just looking like a shell of a coach throughout that process in Vegas, right? Just know, like, he did not look like a man that had full control and comfort in that locker room, right? But what was the disconnect that you saw from the

record to the product on the floor? You know, it's funny. I wish I could go back now knowing what was what happened, go back and just watch Griff's body language in a way that I'm not tuned into on a night to night basis because I'm watching the game. Sure. You know, like just have a camera in there in the huddle. I just want to, there are little things that I would look for, you know, as a former player, haven't been in those huddles. See who's tuned in.

See who's, see who's like eyes are on. That's my favorite thing to do as summer league. That's my favorite thing to do as summer league to see who's locked in who's not. Just little shit. Like see if when he's talking to someone, they're like engaged through the, through the, through the end of the conversation or if they're like walking away, three quarters through it. Do you know what I mean?

Like all of those things would speak to what his relationship was with guys. And I don't know. Again, you're asking me questions and I want to be fair to our listener. I don't know. What I guess was going on was they're really talented. You have two of the best players in the league. You're going to win basketball games. Your defense is really poor.

And the foundation of what they were when they were, you know, buying for championships and winning them was a defensive monster. Now, yes, you gave up Drew Holiday, which on paper might not look like a lot, but it's massive because he puts out fires everywhere. He's just a great defender. And you had other pieces that were extracted. So you were going to lose something defensively. You can't hang all of that on Griff. But I think what happened was they didn't love what he was talking about.

And again, I'm drawing off of my experience in Cleveland with David Blatt and a team that didn't necessarily believe in what David Blatt was saying. what that looked like was we still won games. Not to the tune that we absolutely should have won games. We wound up going to the finals. But you could never really tell exactly how good David was or wasn't because people weren't giving it all that they had in a buy-in type of way. And that's what I think I saw with Milwaukee. Logan, yeah, they're still winning games.

This isn't terrible. But if you're around that on a day-to-day, you can see that people aren't bought in. I can watch the interactions between the coach, the players, the staff. I can watch when a player walks away from David Blatt or Adrian Griffin. I'm watching Logan. He just got done in a conversation with Griff. I'm just watching him.

I'm sitting over there and I'm like, where's he going now? Where is he going now? Oh, he just walked up on Chris Middleton. What's that interaction look like? Oh, they're both kind of laughing and cutting eyes over at, oh, we got a problem. We have a problem. I can't see that from where I sit right now. But that's what I believe happened.

When you're at a game and you're tuned in, you could see so much shit. It's like, like, in terms of what you just described, you're in a bag right now. And I'm like, yo, yeah, you can see this. Like, you can't see a lot of shit on TV that you can see in the arena unless you're like, you're looking at one of those truck feeds and you just, like, they just have a camera just fixated on the on the sideline. but those those interactions are so are so like pure and things like that and that's when you see the real minutia

but I'll tell you what man the juju was not great even in December. It just wasn't and my question to you like going up if you're the Sixers right now or you're the Celtics right now, how are you feeling in the Eastern Conference? Now let you see this transitional period

for one of your biggest rivals. Yeah, look, I'm going to be honest with you I would be scared. It's not a great word, but I would be more concerned now than I was a week ago. I'd be more concerned now because I just, I think that even if Doc, and I think Doc is a very good coach,

but even if, let's say, hypothetically, I was in one of those office and I didn't think Doc knew what he was doing, you know, in the playoffs at all. Let's say that was my opinion on Doc. I would still think because these dudes are going to be bought in, to the breath of fresh air for them in the coaching seat, it's going to give them a boost. There's going to be a reaction.

They're going to start playing harder. I know that Doc is a good people person. I know that he is great with personalities. So in that space, I'm going to worry because I think Milwaukee will play better. Usually have that boost, right? When you have the coach that you want, you know what I mean? You usually have that boost. and it seems like this locker room

like really wants Doc. Let's not get this twisted though because you tell me Doc lost some 3-1 leads for sure. But tell me what the overall record of Doc's teams are. They're always successful. They're always in a hunt. Yeah.

So like we ain't go sit here and act like, you know, I just played hypotheticals, but I don't believe that for one second. Now, yeah, there have been some circumstances and stuff like that. But like his teams are always good. Yeah. We'll see what happens, man.

this is a, this is a fun, it's a fun wrinkle for content, you know? So let's, uh, thank you, Milwaukee Bucks. Staff will have record label in my fucking crew. My man Griff, hey, go to the beach. Again, get away from this bullshit. Dude, go relax a little bit, watch your son. You're getting paid to stay home. Yeah.

And they get back at it, though. Get right back at it. Take, take the rest of the year off, figure it out. Roger trade deadlines coming up. Hey, listen, it's a stressful. It would be a stressful time of year. We're going to discuss. Get it on all the NBA buzzer beaters,

ankle breakers and Tomahawk Jams with FanDuel, America's number one sports book. Right now, new customers get 150 in bonus bets guaranteed when you place a $5 bet. If you've been thinking about joining FanDuel, there's no better time to get on on the action. For me tonight, I think we got Minnesota of Brooklyn. I'm going to take Anthony Edwards over on the points

and the T-Wolves to cover. The app is easy to use, and there are so many different ways to bet, like Live same game parley's, find bets in the new Explorer tab, make a parley in the parley hub, the best way to find popular parleyes, and more.

So visit Fandual.com slash ringer MBA and make your first bet a layup. Van Duel, official partner of the NBA. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit the ringer.com slash RG. $5 pre-game money line wager required. first online real money wager only.

$10 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non-witrawable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. See terms at sportsbook.bandwold.com. You're listening to Real Ones, and I am Jade. Did you know, producer Kai has the diet of a seven-year-old? That boy has never eaten a salad, and hates mac and cheese. He's currently living off

Pop Tarts and burgers with nothing but meat and fun. His stomach is doing somersaults as we speak. And we are back, like we said at the end of the first segment, the trade deadline is coming. It's on its way here.

We're inching closer to it. Raja, you said, you got a little shake, a little shiver what I even said the word trade deadline. Like you're not even playing anymore and you're, you're kind of nervous for someone, maybe yourself. Do you think you're going to get traded to like Miami or something? Like, do you, I don't know.

What is it, what is it a player feeling at this moment who might be on the bubble to get traded or might not even know? Like, what is the overall angst for a player during this time of year? I've had so many different experiences with the trade deadline. I've had years where there was. not a chance I was getting traded. And if I had gotten traded, I would have been just so blindsided that, you know, I would have never have seen that coming. I've had years where I was like shivering in my boots, just expecting the worst and I didn't get traded. I had years where, you know,

that last year in Phoenix, I knew they didn't love me and you know, you didn't love them. I didn't, not the way I had loved our previous, you know, regime. And so there was a possibility and that wound up happening. It can just be a stressful. It can just be a stressful time of year. And it, because my world is kind of my family, I always bring things back to this.

It's stressful for a player. But, you know, when you're out there on the court, man, like that's always kind of been that safe haven, that place where you can go and stress relief. Like,

that's cathartic. You just go out there and hoop, you know? And so it doesn't really manifest itself. At least it didn't for me in poor performances on the court. It was more outside of basketball in my relationships with my family and whether or not I had the same level of patience with people that I normally had. And, you know, like those type of things, that's where it starts to wear on you.

And you start to feel the stress of a situation that ultimately you don't have any control over. So until that deadline passes, it can be like that. But as a pro, I mean, again, when you come into the building and it's time to go to work, I mean, you got to work. People can say what they want to say about the end of Phoenix and even in Utah. But the reality is when I was there to work, when I got in the building, it was time to work. And we worked accordingly. Like we, you know, we tried to win games and do whatever we could to do that.

What is like, because you've, I know your story when you were at the, you know, Lois Hotel and in Santa Monica, you know, trying to go, you know, just soak up the sun and realize you're going back, going to Charlotte. What is the coldest trade? I was at the wheel shirt that time. you're at the Wilshire at that time? I thought you're at the Lowell's. I was at the Wilshire for that one, yep.

Wilshire. No, it was in the Wilshire, Willster. Okay, okay. All right. Well, ran out into the run out, looked out, saying goodbye to all my teammates who were getting on the first bus. I'll see y'all in a bit.

Boris is like, no, you won't. I love how Boris is always just finds his way into this pot. He hasn't been on two years, two, three, four years. My guy. And he finds his way on the pod. He is, he is throwing his scarf to the other shoulder as we speak. that's so great

but what was the coldest trade that you've been like even where you were like damn that was cold that you might have been like near you have been we already know the ones you've been a part of but at least you've just been near where you're like, damn.

I've told this story before. I'll tell it again. We're in Dallas. Nope. Sorry. I have two stories. So do I have a minute? You got all.

time, bro. Hey, this is January. Two stories. This was crazy. Two stories. They're both good ones. Jerry Sloan has huddled us up and said one, two, three, good luck to the team. Right? To which we were all

like, what the hell just happened? Everyone's standing there looking. Jerry didn't already exited the building. I show up the next morning. Jerry has already had his press conference. I'm there for treatment. Brian Zettler and Gary Briggs are like, yeah, Jerry just retired. I'm like, what? Wait, what happened? This is it's 8.30 in the morning. What happened?

So that's happened. The team, you know, continues. I don't know how long after that this was, but we are at the Wyndham Anatole in Dallas. This is Darren Williams hometown. We are going to play the Mavericks that night. It is always special when an NBA player gets to go home and put on in front of their home crowd and their family.

Again, we are sitting in a makeshift training room in the hotel getting taped to go to shoot around. I am sitting on this little tiny love seat next to Darren Williams, Gary Briggs, Brian Zettler, and SportsCenter is on. And we are chilling watching SportsCenter. Maybe it might have been C.J. Miles or somebody

was getting taped over there. And across the ticker on the bottom, not even like the main story, I guess we had missed that part of SportsCenter, but across the ticker on the bottom, NBA trade. Darren Williams to Brooklyn for, I forget who he was traded for.

man he was my young fellow Derek favors and and uh some picks and yeah was it Devin was it Devin was it Devin Harris Devin Harris yeah but so anyway that goes across and it was like a movie because we both read it we're looking at it and we both looked forward for roughly one one thousand two one thousand and then we both just like shot looks at each other like what and he looked at me and he I don't remember verbatim what he said but it was something like yo I got to go make a phone call and he went and made a phone call, and that's how he found out that he had been traded from Utah. Now, the part that was cold,

I mean, that was cold, but what really made it icy was as I was sitting in the training room, it could have been the next night because I don't remember if we had a back-to-back or not, but it was the next time we were at home, I was sitting on this, like, wooden platform, have my foot in like the silver bullet, old hot tubs,

like trying to get it warm. Damn, that's old school. Yeah, trying to get it warm, go out and get a game. I'm late in my career. Kevin O'Connor comes in and he looks at me and he says about the trade.

I said something about Darren. He said, sometimes you get what you deserve and he kept it walking. That's cold. I say, wow, that's, and mind you, he got traded to the New Jersey Nets. The New Jersey Nets. You know how cold that is? You know how cold that is, dog? Listen, that was some cold-blooded. I said, I feel you, Kev. Now, again, I wasn't around for all of the things that had transpired.

between, you know, Darren, Kev, Jerry, I don't know. But that trade, the way it was executed and what was said to me after the trade about it was cold. Let me give you my second story. Let's do it. I'm in Cleveland. I've been tasked a couple of times with talking to Dion Waiters about the situation that it's going to be, you know, Kyrie, Kevin Love and LeBron in the starting lineup. And there's not really any room for Dion in the lineup. But, you know, I'm trying to convince Dion that this could be a really good thing for.

you like coming off the bench all the shots you want in this manu genobli jemal crawford lu williams type of vibe let's just go eat right in a way that you wouldn't be able to with lebron and kevin love and kairie like you get this ring you'd be a spot shooter let's say the ring doesn't entice you like the ring isn't enough um for you you're looking for personal because you're about to be a free agent this is what's best the ring just just f y out of people the ring is not most important to a lot of NBA players just to so you i'm sorry you fans just so you know. Yeah, I mean, if you didn't know that, but especially in a contract year, when you haven't really hit a big one yet, right? Like, you don't want to sacrifice completely

your individual goals for team goals, but that's why this is perfect. You could come off the bench, blank canvas to go hunt shots, do all of that and be an integral part of a team that, in theory, we think can win a championship. Not buying it. I've had this conversation multiple times. Dion, I'm like, yo, he is not buying that shit. Because he thinks he's better than everyone on a team. And I'm not going to lie. There'll be some nights where you'd be like, damn, Dion, I remember what's how he played against the warriors

and he beat them by himself. This is not like your, this is not your father's warriors. This is KD., Steph, Clay, Draymond, all in their primes. And he beat them by themselves. Yeah, when you watch practice sometimes with Kyrie, Kevin Love, and LeBron in him, you could leave there a day or two and say,

hey, he was the best player at the gym. Yes. Just kind of a victim of his own talent. in that regard. But anyway, we're in Philadelphia. They're always so cold because it's the player's hometown, right? I know. So that's Philly cheese, bro.

That is, that is Deon's town. Here's what makes it crazier. This particular night, LeBron is out and Kyrie is out. So not only is Philly Cheese at home, but he is going to get to shoot all of the shots. He's getting 40 tonight. He's going to get 40. gonna get 40 at home with all of the crowds.

And I've been working tickets for him and helping him do that all day. So I know he got like 20 to 30 people. Remember how you had to work tickets that day? How many tickets did you have to give for him that night? I don't remember, but it was a hefty. It was upwards of 20 tickets. And that's like hella maneuvering. You got it like, yo, Braun.

What's your tickets tonight, bro? Oh, it's a lot. It's a lot of stuff. To get your tickets, bro. PR guy, let me get your tickets. A lot of hustling to get those tickets or just straight card. You're going to buy the tickets if they're available. But I digress.

So I get a call probably around one in the afternoon. It's David Griffin. He's like, you got a sec. I'm like, yeah. So he puts me on hold. And then he pops back on the line. And he's like, hey, I have, you know, Trent Rand and Kobe all I mean, Dan Gilbert and whatever other partner was on the line.

And I'm like, oh, shit. Oh, shit. Did I fuck off? Like, what did I? Did I do something wrong? And also, also let me not talk to Griff how I to dormally. talk to Griff. Let me relax. There's people on the phone here.

Right. What is going? Oh, I know. What I'm going? Okay. Hello, Griff. How you doing? Yeah, so they put me on the spot and I'm like, what did I hop into here? So what had it happened was they had a trade on the table for J.R. Smith, Imman Schumpert, and was it Lou Admondson maybe? Lou Admondson

in exchange for Dion and whatever the pieces were. And I'm like, oh my God. Wasn't Monsgov? That was just maybe a It was Timofay. It was Timofay. It was Thomas. Yeah. And so I'm like, okay, well, they're talking it out. I'm on the line.

This is roughly a 40 minute conversation, 30 minute. And so I have time to digest it. And by the end of it, I'm like, okay, like, I see this. Yeah, I think these pieces are going to work. Are they looking for your opinion? Are they asking you questions? Are they like, hey, Roger, what you think? Like, what is a 40-minute trade call like?

Well, everyone is taking a turn talking about the trade. What they like about it, what they might not like about it, reservations about it. how it could help just opinions on it. And the people that did a lot of the information gathering and intel and stuff like that, you know, for that staff was, you know, Griff obviously was the guy. Kobe and Trent were both phenomenal at their job. That's why they're still doing it.

And then I was there kind of as a guy who had played, you know, understood team building and stuff like that. Was around our team a lot. New, knew it as well as anyone at the time because I was with it so much. And so what the owners would do would just be, you know, we give our, thoughts on it. And if ownership before they pulled a deal like this, they're bouncing questions back and forth off of you. Like, hey, but what if, what if that, no, what if this happens? And do you think that works? And so we're just giving opinions, right? But the long and the short of it was, I'm like, look, I could see that. I would, I would co-sign on that. I think Shump is going to be great.

And J.R., too. And J.R., the funny thing was, you know, I was like, look, J.R., they really wanted Shump. Like, Shump was the piece that everybody wanted. And look, rightfully so, Shump was great. But I remember telling them, like, I think J.R. is going to be the piece that's going to be like great. Now, JR was had a lot of stuff. Can I go on a limb really quickly? Can I go on a little bit? I think about this with Lamarro, but I think about this, I would say this more for J.R. Smith. I think in the right situation, if things hit differently, he could have been like an all-time great. I really believe that. And that's not a, it's my, if he had his, if he wasn't focused on a lot of the BS and a lot of the shit, he would have been a multi-time all-star and we

would have been talking to him in a different life. Because there'd be sometimes where he would do some shit on the floor and you're like, What the fuck? Like, stars don't even do that, right? Ouseing talent and athleticism, but not really at that point in his life, I think he would even admit not mentally wired the way you needed to be to be what you're talking about, right? I've heard him talk about that. Like head kind of, you know, in a young man's place in a way that might prevent you from being consistent enough to do that, right?

Also a way different infrastructure or lack of back when he was coming out of high school than we have in the league right now. Yeah. And so, you know, the questions were like, yo, can we absorb that? Like is it going to be, you know, and I'm like, yo, he's going to be good. Like I think we have the locker room that can incorporate him. He's going to be good. I've lost track of my thoughts again.

This is now you, now you guys are experiencing my wife's world. So now let me get back to the story. I'm like the trade itself. Please, guys, if we're going to do it, get it done before 3.30. It's probably what I say, one, but probably more like 12.

Like, so you got three and a half hours because at 3.30, we're getting on buses to go to this arena. And, this is where the player comes out. Look, guys, we don't want to do that. Let him know before we go. Give his family time to not come to the game. Like, there's a lot of moving pieces around this, not just hours.

Let's get this shit wrapped up. Let's pull the trigger on the trade and let's get it moving. Got it. We'll do our best. So, four o'clock comes. I haven't heard anything from anybody. I'm on a bus. Going to the game.

Game is about to start. Literally the anthems. it's the anthem. I get a phone call. Get Dion Waiters off the court. What? I'm like, what do you mean?

I'm in the back. I'm not out for the phone. I'm not out for the anthem. So I'm in the, I'm in the locker room. I'm like, man, this is fucking crazy, man.

It is Anthem. I can't get him off the court. They're like, you have to get him off the court immediately. And you can't tell him where he's going. He's going to be traded to Oklahoma. Yeah, because he went to Oklahoma, I think, in that deal.

Yeah. So they were like, you can't tell him where he's going and get his ass off the court. court right now. I had to sprint through the, I forget what the Philly Arena was at the time. Wells Fargo singing. Wells Fargo. Sprint through it.

Now, by the time I get out there, I'm mouthing at our strength and condition, don't let Dion go. Send Dion off. He can't tell what I'm saying. So as the anthem finishes, you know, the lines naturally kind of form for the introduction, right? And we're going to be first because we're the visiting team.

And the lights is all for you. y'all like it's not even dark deion's name is about to get called by the time i get my hands on dion and i'm like i'm like you can't go out and he looked at me like what i was like listen bro you you can't go out you're going to be traded the look on if he could have killed me with his eyes i'd have been dead five times he was like what the fuck and i felt terrible for him man because they i i can't remember if they called his name or not they had to have right because we couldn't have got to the scores table but i was then dealing with him and so i didn't hear it so i got him back to the back at a locker room and I'm like hey look Dion you got traded I can't tell you where I actually think

it's going to be a good spot for you this was about an hour that I couldn't tell this man where he was going just that he was going to be traded and he was sitting in the back of the locker room with his family out there wondering you know what was going on I'm sure he had communicated with them that he wasn't playing that night but the house is packed to see him and finally I had to call them and say hey guys listen this is bullshit this is fucking bullshit I'm not going to sit here and and and just be staring at this dude in the face, man, knowing what this feels like, I need, I got to be able to tell him. And they were like, okay, you could tell him where you were going.

So I told him he was going to Oklahoma. And that was my, those were my two experiences. You know, it's funny. It's funny how, like, our world's kind of intertwined. The first one was, like, you might have went to the club with my father when I was a child with Averson. But the other one is like, so I was interned in sack around that time. And his first game, Dionne Waiter's his first game.

was in Sacramento. And I saw him in his first press conference as an Oklahoma City Thunder. Or like not even press conference was a scrum because it was during shootaround. Right. Bro was pissed. Pissed. Like, I mean, it was a great situation. He also, like, it really helped him out because he played well in the postseason that year.

Like, he was really good. I meant it when I told him. I said, Dion, this is going to be, look, for what you want to do, this is going to be better. Yeah. Like, it was a better situation for him. He got a lot of shots. like, you know, like it was a freer environment because Katie's and, and, and, and Russ aren't as, like, as stringent as like LeBron is in that, that system. So it was, it was all good. Um,

tough side of the business, though, to watch that though. Like, you know, like, this is the part that the fans don't get to see when they're, when they're, it's just these moving pieces on a chess board. And to some degree, like, if I'm, if I'm being completely honest, that's what I said, that Kobe, Trent and Griff, who had never really, you know, played in the NBA. And, just because you play a college sport or a high school sport, you don't get traded in those. Like, you won't have families in those.

You haven't started businesses and just bought a new home in those. You're a kid. Like, do you know what I mean? So you go to a new team. It's a new team. But that's what gets kind of dicey around the trade deadline. Do you ever get annoyed when you hear people talking about the trade machine,

Raja? I used to be annoyed at all kinds of things in the front office. I meant like fans talking about like, oh, this person, like, it's so easy to display. Oh, yeah, get his ass up out of here. Or like, we could get, We could trade such and such as us for this. I don't know because fans, I mean, I get it, right?

Like, that's what you do. That's why, you know, that's why the environments are so great that you plan. So I don't begrudge than that. I just found some things in the inner workings of a front office. Like, I thought they lacked perspective for a better way to put it, you know, because you didn't. Like, you didn't do it. You don't know how that affects families. You know, my trade, I've said this before.

When I, my, the first time I was traded, the time you were talking about in, in L.A. I had one son that was 18 months. I had one that was probably two months old. Or no, one that was a month old, one that was 18 months. I had just bought a brand new house and started a new business in Phoenix, in Scottsdale, Arizona. And so, you know, that's cool. That's part of it. But I get to go home.

I have to be in Charlotte. The mandate was 48 hours. So I get to go home, kiss my sons and my wife, pack up everything that I think I'm going to need. until I see him again. And I don't know when the fuck that's going to be. And get to Charlotte and, you know, basically be like, hey, man, I love you guys. I'll see you. And, you know, my wife's like, what?

We had never experienced that. She was like, what the hell am I going to do? I'm like, I don't know, but I got to go or I don't get a check. Yeah. So I'll call your mom out or whoever. They'll come stay with you, but I got to go. I'm on my way to Charlotte. This is a wild business, dog.

It's a wild-ass business, dude. Oh, man. All right. It's Thursday, so you know what it is. Time for real one of the week. I'll go first, Roger. I'm going to go with, I think, one of the few repeat real one of the weeks. Mr. Alonzo Carter, my high school football coach.

Oh, dope. Just got a job at, we just talked about this for free pie, but he just got a job at the University of Arizona as a running backs coach and assistant head coach. Oh, that's tough. And I just want to give him his flowers because, man, if you're from the Bay, you know Coach Zoe, the real coach Carter

and started out at McClyman's High School who famous alums like MC Hammer and Bill Russell went there no resources makes McLeanman's football into a powerhouse just so many silver bowls

which is the Oakland Athletic League title but got so many kids from West Oakland and beyond into college with scholarships right and made McLean's just a hotbed for recruiting. Then goes to Berkeley High, where I follow him.

I'm supposed to go to McClimans, went to Berkeley High. Has success there. All the while, you notice, high school coaches don't get paid nothing, especially at public schools. He went to from Berkeley High to Contra Costa College to get his degree

and certification so he could actually be a D1 to coach. So goes from Contra Costa College, has a great run, then goes to San Jose State where he's a running backs coach. And now, he gets to go to Arizona to a real D1 program with

real resources and really do his thing on a national scale. So shout out to Zoe, the real coach Carter, Alonzo Carter, ruined a week. Congratulations. Coach Carter, that's dope. Let me see, there are a lot of candidates. I could go, any

quarterback that's about to play in these divisional championships, like, for various reasons, you know, I spend a big part of my life now. But they all have great stories, right? Like Lamar, you know, having a chance to but ain't nobody want to sign Lamar Jackson, man. How's that, how did that even possible?

How's that even possible? Like, how's that even possible, right? Right? Let's talk about. My third eyes open on that, by the way, Roger. My third eyes open on that on that, you know what I mean? But even Brock Purdy, Mr. what do they call it, Mr. Mr. Relevant. Yeah, like, you know, having to do it late and being able to do that, Pat Mahomes, obviously.

And was it, Jared God? Jared Goff. Like, what a story, dude. That's so cool. But I could go with any of them. I could go with Joel Embed, 70 ball. Like, that's bananas.

You got to pick one, no. It's a real one of the week. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

it's, none of them. Because my real, real one of the week is seven-year-old Kaya Bell. Ah! Yeah. Hey,

hey, we need a flex bonds. Povov! BOR, edit that in post. She's my real one of the week. And the pride that is oozing from these poor. like it's I get I'm really proud watching my boys like accomplished goals and play well and shit like

that it's all good but this little girl wanted to learn how to ride a bite and we got her a two-wheeler and training wheels were not on it we took her out and I basically helped her for I mean roughly give her take two to three minutes and after that Kyabelle was riding on two wheels man it was Get the fuck off me, dad. She's like, get the fuck off me, dad. I got this. It was the quickest any. I got some pretty athletic kids.

It's the quickest that any of them have gotten that, dude. It was so cool. It happened two days ago, man. Did you shed any thug tears? Did you shed any thug tears in the low? Because I was, I'm out of shape and I was too busy, like, trying to run behind the bike to make sure that she didn't have like a tragic crash at the end of it. So no tears, but, but super winded.

That's what's up, man. That's what's up. Man, what an episode. This was good. This was good. I'm really proud of us. It was fun episode. All right.

We'll see you guys on a Monday. Make sure, hey, Mondays, ruins mailbag at gmail.com. We'll be answering your questions every Monday for the motherfucking mailbag with Howard Beck. So the first one went really well. We got a lot of MFs. Got a lot of spoilers in the questions.

I didn't feel like my performance was great. So for anyone that thought I was lacking, and if you ask questions and my answers weren't great, I apologize. I can admit that. I'll be better. Okay. I just think they were great.

I didn't know. I didn't see anything different. But okay. All right. Next Monday. We're locked in. All right. See you guys Monday.

Talk to you guys soon. Bye. Must be 21 years and older in president select states. Fandul is offering online sports wagering in Candace under an agreement with the Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem. Call 100 gambler or visit Fandulul. com backslash RG in Colorado,

Iowa, Kentucky, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, Vermont, and Virginia. Call 1-800- Next Step or text next step to 533442 in Arizona, 1-888-78-9-7777, or visit ccpg.org, backslash chat in Connecticut, 1-8009 with it in Indiana, 1-800-5-22-4-7-00, or visit KS Gambling Help in Kansas, 18777-7-0. Stop in Louisiana.

Visit MD gambling help.org in Maryland. Visit 1-800 gambler.net in West Virginia or call 1-800-522470-7-0 in Wyoming. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline, ma.org, or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 18778 Hope N. Or text Hope N.Y in New York.