The Ringer NBA Show - Why Each Team Won With the Dame Trade, Travis Kelce and Taylor Swift Reactions, and a Lost in the Sauce Test | Off Guard

Episode Date: September 28, 2023

Austin and Pausha react to the blockbuster Damian Lillard trade and talk through why this is a rare triple win for all three teams involved (0:32). Then, they hit on the Travis Kelce–Taylor Swift relationship news (25:52) and likely NBA prospect Cooper Flagg’s UConn photo shoot. They wrap things up with Lost in the Sauce, a new segment that puts both guys’ NBA history knowledge to the test (53:51). Hosts: Austin Rivers and Pausha Haghighi Producers: Erika Cervantes and Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, this is Jason Gough from the full go podcast. Me and the crew, we like to entertain you. And we're going to do more of that this football season because the bears should be more intriguing. There should be more fascination. Justin Fields. Is this the make or break year? Is DJ Moore the piece that's going to put them over the top? You can catch us on Sundays, Tuesdays and Thursdays, or when we have an emergency podcast when we have breaking news.

Make sure you follow the full go on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everybody? Welcome to Off Guard. I'm your host Pasha joining me as always is Austin Austin what's up my guy So earlier we recorded a pod and it was before the big dame trade So we wanted to kind of just come back and touch up on the big news that's breaking internet right now Austin

First reactions That's surprising I don't think any of us saw this coming everybody thought it was gonna be a heat and everybody's kind of annoyed that it hadn't happened yet It seemed like we're all just kind of waiting for this deal to eventually get done and then recently in past weeks we've seen Toronto kind of creep in the mix. So then everybody was wondering how that makes sense for Dame. It's kind of the same situation he was in in Portland. The team is still kind of rebuilding. Well, I don't know what Toronto is doing, if they're rebuilding or not.

No, no one really knows. But that's, you know, Dame going there just didn't make as much sense as I think Miami did. And then today, this trade just comes out of nowhere. Milwaukee creeps in. And I'm here for it. Right. And so I wanted to break this down. Let's start with Milwaukee side of it.

Are they your favorites to one that you can be in the mix now? Oh, yeah, I think they were in the mix. No, no, no. I know they were in the mix last year, but it's still essentially the same team. They did lose to Miami first round last year. I know Janus was hurt for a little bit of that, but still, they were definitely in the mix. Correct. With Dame there, it makes them like now one of the favorites.

Now you have Denver. You have Milwaukee. And I think if you're going to put a third team as a favorite. Celtics are. Lakers Sons. Yeah, I'd probably say Celtics, Lakers Sons. Yeah. You know what I mean, that's that group of teams that one of those teams will win next year. Okay.

I'll guarantee it right now that I will guarantee I guarantee that well, I don't even know why I need to say this. It's not even a, I'm not going out on a limb. Me saying the bucks, the Celtics, the Lakers,

the Nuggets or the Sons are going to win a championship is the most no doubt. I mean, like the teams on the outside of that looking in are the Warriors, Sixers, Heat. No, heat. I'm not going to say anything about the heat. Your beloved Timberwolves? They're not beating those teams in the finals or going to the finals, man.

Get the fuck out of here. I love the Timberwolves, man. I think they don't have a big time of year. I don't have them winning the championship. Where does this big three with Dame, Chris Middleton, and Janus? Where does that stack up? Compare that to, for example, Booker, Beal, and Durant. Well, first of up, I like this for the Suns,

just an aspect that they needed a big still. because Aiden apparently, I'll explain this, because I don't want to speak like I know him or I'm there. I don't like speaking like I'm involved in the organization. From the far, what I've seen so far is Aiden has kind of had a problem with, I don't want to say his role, but you've seen he kind of just wants more for himself. He wants a little bit more, maybe it's attention,

he wants the ball a little more in the block. He showed he's very skilled through his years in the NBA so far. He's a really good big. I think everyone likes Aiden. I think that's why Aiden got so much shit this past summer was because people were disappointed that he didn't play as well in that Nugget series. When in previous years, two years prior,

when I played for the Nuggets, when we played Phoenix, Aten was unbelievable. That was the year of Phoenix made that run to the finals versus Milwaukee. And Aiden had a really good postseason. And was an upcoming player, you got paid $130 million.

That was even kind of drama, that had a little drama to it. They didn't offer it to him right away and he felt away about it. It started back then. And it's kind of just snowballed a little bit. And I think we all kind of saw it lashing the playoffs and throughout moments of, you know, Monty getting fired and all these things. Like Aidan's name was constantly in that mix of, you know, things that weren't really going right in Phoenix in terms of just fit. Oh, right when you heard that Beal sign with the signs, everyone was talking about what they can get for Aiton, just to get more dust.

Exactly. And I'm sure Aiton sees this and it has a way about it. So they had to get rid of them. He wanted to go, and I think they wanted him to go just for personality-wise. You bring in a guy who's also another high-volume score, a really, really good score in Bradd Bill. Now there's less to eat at the table. So Aiton was going to be, if he wasn't frustrated already before, it's definitely about to be. It makes sense just from a team aspect. You get a guy like Nurkish who's going to rebound. He's going to pick.

He's going to roll. He'll be happy with whatever he gets or doesn't get. He's going to do his job. He just did it with Dave and CJ in them for years. He definitely can do it with Kevin, Devin. and Brad. They get Nirkage, they get Grayson Allen,

and you add a little depth to her bench. That was the big question for Phoenix, who was their bench, who were these guys, you got O'Kee, got a couple other guys who are pretty solid players. But other than that,

outside of that, Damien Lee, some other guys, they didn't have like the most, you know, deep bench. Now you add, you know, another guy,

Grayson Allen, who's already been a proven starter in the NBA. Now you got him coming off the bench. And then you got talented guys like Nazir Little. So you got him, you got Damian Lee,

you got Okogi. You know, you've got a couple guys in there and now that can... Eric Gordon. Oh, yeah, Eric Gordon. They got some firepower off that bench now. So now they got firepower. So the sons now have one of the best starting lineups and one of the better bench. They have a nice bench.

I think their bench, if you ask, you know, their bench with Eric Gordon and Grayson Allen, in terms of guards, it's about a solid it's going to get. Yeah. They need, like maybe, they do need a backup. That's really weird they got rid of campaign. He's just a good backup. You know what I mean? Like, he's solid.

In my opinion, at least, every time he's played pretty solid. years. People forget their close-out game last year where they got smacked by Denver fucking, Cameron Payne had like 30 in that game. You remember he's hit all those threes? Right. I know it's whatever, but yeah, I don't think campaign's a bad player.

Who beat the Sons last year in the playoffs? The Nuggets? Now you get Nerkich. Is this kind of like Yokic? Did they get, this is better for that matchup against Yokish? No, I don't, I've personally seen that one firsthand. So Yokic just dominates Nerkich. Former team,

You need to go, he takes it personal because I know that at a point, Nurkage, there was a thing in Denver, everybody knows. For sure, you know. Nurgh thought he was a better player than Yokic and was mad that, like, you know, Denver essentially kind of wanted Yonkidj to start and play a little more. Remember, Dan Fagan was Nerkich's agent, got him out of there for Mason Plumley. Yes. And because Nurgh wasn't having it.

He went to Portland. Every time we played them in the playoffs or any time, and I think Nerkich can play. He's actually a good player. but like comparing him to the to the best play in the NBA is just it's not I just want to know who you think it's just not fair yokech better because they're going to run into each other they are I'm telling you it's still not fair yeah and again Nurkich is a really good big who handles himself versus everybody a versus a jol and b Nikola yokic it's not going to be a one man I mean he just can't guard him and nobody can so it's not even a slight to nurkage nobody can guard those guys um I don't

even think he knew how good yokech was going to be right you know what I mean in that time where he felt like he was better than Yokic, I'm sure he did. By that time, I'm sure his play reps and in the game, he probably did have a lot more games where he played better than Yokish. Once Yokic got that team and got that green light, no one saw this coming of him being this great players. The reason why he went drafted during a Taco Bell commercial. No, no one saw this. That's what the great, you know, that's what makes him so likable, you know? So I do think still they have a solid big. They improve their depth of their bench. It's a win for them for Phoenix. I like

I like the trade for Phoenix. Let's talk about Portland side of things. We were just talking about how you do like Aiton's game. He has a lot of potential. He's showed up big in the playoffs. Now they have a big to kind of build around with all those young guards that they have too. So how do you feel about Portland's now their young nucleus?

Scoot Henderson I love I like to. I like Scott. At the point, you got rid of Dame and you still have this point guard that's like this up-and-coming really talented and point-guard. You have a talented score in Anthony Simons.

You have this extreme talent in Shaden Sharp that people are very high out and excited about. And then you have eight and now a center that you can kind of anchor with...

You can anchor them with the guards. Now you've got just two up-and-coming guards or three guards. Now you've got a plethora of shooting guards and a point guard. Now you got a young center and then let's not forget

they still have Drew Holiday who they're going to move for someone probably valuable or really good picks or something like that. Where do you want to see Drew Holla dego. Everyone wants to see Drew in Miami. The problem is we're now back at scenario number one. Miami would now be like, all right, we didn't get a day. We'll take Drew. He actually

fits in here better. He's a defender. Can you imagine him, Bam and Jimmy defensively in the front lineup? That would be great. I was looking at all the teams and where Drew could fit. It's crazy how many teams. He's such a good player. His skill set. You could fit anywhere. Off the ball, with the ball, anywhere. But yeah, Miami obviously needs to make a move. You lost two. First of all, they were an eight seed last year. Let's just call what it is. They They were the eight seed, and they were about for five, six months, and then they were good for two, whatever it is. And they lost two starters, however you want to slice it. So they need to make a move.

Miami's on the hot seat right now. Two starters and a good role player. Yeah. So sure, they would do great with Drew, but once again, Blazers don't want Tyler here. Yeah, but it's not that they don't, yeah. It just doesn't fit. He doesn't fit with Sharp and Anthony. Anthony and Tyler here are essentially the same player in terms of just their young, their best years are ahead.

them still. They both have a similar contract and their high volume, high scoring, shooting guards. So that just really just doesn't make sense. It'd be one thing if you didn't have a point guard and maybe you can move Tyler or, you know, Anthony to the one. And like you could try doing that like CJ Dame thing again. We have two guards, but like they are, they have scoot. So it just doesn't make sense. And that's what held up this whole thing, this whole summer. So Miami's back center. We got to now find a new 13. So about a busy week. Or they just, I think they ship drew somewhere else. And a lot of teams could use them. I saw them. Someone mentioned the Bulls, you know,

with Lonzo Ballout, and they got some good players. And, you know, the Sixers, I don't know who they would trade for. A Maxi, that's kind of the same thing as the Simon's issue. That one, that one makes sense. No, Maxi's too young of a talent to trade for any veteran player, no matter how good they are. I'm keeping Maxi. I'm not trained Maxi for nobody. Maxi and Joe got to stay.

Okay. Well, I just think Maxi and Joel and Beets timeline are just completely different. PJ, Tobias, all those guys, those guys are available. I'll drive them to the airport. But Tyrese Maxi and and Joe Lombita, like the nucleus of the team. Okay. That's most important.

So where do you want to see Drew? And I'm just counting James because that fiasco is going to handle itself. You know what I mean? I don't know what's going on with that. But one way or the other. He's not at camp. I don't believe he will be there. It'd be hard to see him pulling up to camp after everything's happened.

But who knows? Only James. What team do you want to see? Being uncomfortable. What team do you want to see Drew end up with? Honestly, man, you like to see Drew in a competitive environment. I don't even know, man. Philly great.

The problem of Chicago is I just don't like their team. You like their, here's thing, everyone liked their team when Lonzo was there and it kind of put all the pieces together and it made sense and they were a one team. He makes that team, the way he plays, he's like Tyree's Halliburton like. He plays like Jason Kidd like.

I'm not saying he's Jason Kidd, but he was like a, I don't want to say poor man's either because I don't want to disrespect. He's a connector. He connected everybody. He's like a similar type player. Like, yeah, he's a connector, bro. He's not a takeaway, me first, shoot first, scoring point guard, like 99% of the NBA.

This is a guy who would get a rebound, and then two dribbles, that ball is down by the other. I mean, we're talking about it in two seconds. One of the fastest high-paced players, athletic, and then he improved his three-point shooting. For sure. So he became an all-around, and he was an unbelievable defender. People forgot, like, how really good how Lonzo was because he's been hurt for so long. So when that fell apart, man, like, they resorted to other, you know, Kobe White, who's good, but, you know. Yeah.

And then they have like, they got Caruso, and they got Zach who they've been trying to trade for two years now, and Zach knows it, and it's strange. You got, DeMarre was a really good player, but he's expiring. He's older. He lives off heavy, contested mid-range jump shots, which I'm not saying are bad shots because he makes him in a high clip. I'm just saying sometimes it's hard for a team to play around that.

You know what I mean? Instead of running and gutting and cutting and layups and threes and everybody's in on it, you kind of have a guy ISO shooting fadeaway 2. It's just harder to play with it. It's just a fact. That's why that style of game is just disappeared. Yeah. So Chicago's just, it's a strange fucking team.

Yeah. I mean, listen, could they use Drew? Absolutely. But yeah. Every team could use Drew. Any team Drew goes to, their team will get better. That's just the type of player he is. He's a very low maintenance.

He's not a superstar, but he is a star point guard. I know he's made the All-Star a couple times. He's in and out. He plays at a high level. And any time he plays against a star, he puts up just amount, he puts in the same type of work. He's a star-level guard. So anywhere he goes, the team will improve.

I like Chicago, but I'd rather see him somewhere else. And I like the Bulls. I really do. I love the organization of Chicago. Everyone, they're an iconic organization. They did a good job putting that team together. Lonzo just got hurt. It's just shitty luck.

I love what their team did. I love what their GM did, president. I love the team that Chicago put together. Lonzo there running and gunning with Zach, because they were both freak athletes. That idea of those guys running and having a guy, DeMar, who's a little bit older, who could help them in the crunch,

time and then having like shooters and crusoe defensive guys they had like derrick jones junior they had athletic ass dudes around that lons was throwing lobs too like at the time that team was built they did a really good job putting it together just bad fucking luck and i like billy donovan i want to get back to i don't think we talked enough about dame actually on milwaukee and what this means are we're waiting this the bread and butter right here this we've been waiting to get to do you see a scenario where we get the finals rematch of a couple years ago with suns bucks very possible but it's a whole different fear that's a whole different fear that's we're It's a difference. It's different. You add Duran. You're adding Beal. You're adding

Damien Lillard. I mean, more stars. That would be an absolute Goliath versus Goliath. Yeah. Was it King Kong or Godzilla? That's what that type of matchup would be. We're talking about two teams with not one, not two, three stars and high level role players. Bobby Portis coming off the bench, got Brooke Lopez still there. Aaron Gordon. A lot of good players on both.

Allen. That's kind of where it ends over there. But I think Milwaukee's the best team in the league with this team. They're my favorites. It's Milwaukee. How about that for Dame? I know he wanted Miami, but his team looking out for him, even though they said, no, don't want him to Milwaukee, man.

Listen, you want to win? You ain't going to get a better shot than this. Yeah. This team had the best record in NBA last year. And everybody wants to play for them. And I'm not saying it has to happen this year, by the way. Everyone who's like, if they don't win this year, like, bro, it's one, remember,

A lot of teams, Miami included with the big three. Not everybody wins first year. Sometimes it takes a year. It just takes two years. But within the next two years, that team has to be like a, they're going into camp this year. Like, we got to go back. Right.

And there's nothing, there's no option other than that. And that's a big deal. That's a, that's a different camp. Also, if you're Milwaukee, if you're Milwaukee fan, you know, Yonis has been hinting about leaving. Oh, this is just, dame. At least know you got two to three years with these guys. Yeah, yeah.

And this is a great thing. And I'll be honest, man, I'm really impressed by Milwaukee pulling this off and going to get it. I really am. They just go for it. Do you know what I mean? No, for sure. They do. It's a good deal.

It really is. And again, none of us saw this coming. And I think a lot of us even had questions of when we heard even Milwaukee, like, because you asked me that earlier, how do I feel like Milwaukee fits with Dame? You just didn't think of it because you thought Dan wanted to go to Miami and Milwaukee couldn't be further Yeah, and I also thought like, or him with Philly, like the big point guard mix where I know Yonis likes to dribble. So I didn't know how that would really work. But when you put it in perspective, having Chris Middleton, having Damien, having Janus, they'll figure it out.

You have really, really talented players. You got Bobby Portis. You got Brooke Lopez. You have veteran-like guys who know how to win. It's a team built to win. Yeah. It's a team built to win. I remember Dane did something for GQ earlier where he was answering questions from the internet.

and someone asked who would be his favorite pairing, and he said Yannis. So it's kind of crazy that they're linked up now. If you're Miami... Yonis picked him first in the All-Star game. Yeah, so obviously there's a mutual thing there. Yeah. If you're Miami, and there's been rumors about,

obviously, Miami getting Dame, Miami being kind of keeping eye on the Yana situation, being unhappy, you just lost both of those in one foul swoop. Yeah, just one thing you lost both. Yeah, that's tough. That's tough go. Yeah, so it's crazy. Who won the trade?

The easy pick would be Milwaukee. and Phoenix didn't win the trade, but they did not lose. They got a solid big to replace someone that wasn't fitting and culturally wise. Aitin's happy. He gets to go somewhere. He's going to have more touches. He's got more of a say. He's got a younger team.

He's probably going to be really happy. And the Blazers, you went from going to a hero package to Aiton and what do they get for Drew? Now they're going to get another good player for Drew. So they're building up their young team. And they got picks and other stuff too. We had a feeling this was going to get done right before. They got two first round picks and a pick swap. So they got a lot going on over there in Portland.

They got a lot to be happy about. There's no losers in this. I really don't believe so. Now, the biggest risk in all this is obviously the risk that Milwaukee's taking. But at the end of the day, like, we talk about this all the time. We talked about it early in the pod. How like just 12 teams trying to win and other teams trying to, they try to fucking win. They went after Damien Lillard.

They're like, yo, we're trying to win right now. Again, I love that. I don't want to get negative. but one thing I can't help but think about is they traded for Drew, they won a title right away. Two years later, Drew says he wants to be a buck for life. There's not going to play for any other team. And you get shipped out.

You want a title with this team, and then a couple years later, you're out of there. All right, awesome. My last question for you is, before this trade went down, we talked about Boston being the clear-cut favorite in the East. Adding KP, you know, Tatum and Brown, obviously, one of the best duos in the NBA.

Now that this trade happens, if you're Boston, are you going to try to upgrade the wrong? roster, maybe go get Drew, do something? Are you still feeling pretty confident about? They have every reason to be confident. As long as you got Tatum and Brown and you have Derek and who else they got over there. Well, I got Przingus. Prozingus, who people are very excited about to see because he's never been in a position like that.

Prisagis has never been on a team of this caliber. You know, finals just about every year over the past, you know, however many years. You'd imagine he'll try to be healthy and he's in a contract year. so you're going to get a fully motivated Porzingis. You know, they have a lot of talented role players. I said Derek White, but who else? What am I missing here?

Malcolm Brogden? Malcolm Brogden. I mean, listen, they say he's unhappy, but who really knows? Yeah, I would love to see Drew there. I don't know what they have the offer. And I don't know if Malcolm Brogden, why would Portland do that? No offense. Malcolm is a really good player.

He's not better. I wouldn't have him over Drew. So you'd be trading Drew for Malcolm and some picks. I don't know how they'll get it done for sure. Boston has picks. I don't know what Boston has. Maybe like a Payton. You could maybe throw a couple, you might have to do a couple of players. Malcolm and another guard. Maybe now Scoot has a backup. You know, they has Malcolm as a backup who's, I don't fucking know, man. That's a good question.

I would like to see in a fantasy world, if I could see Drew anywhere, if we were really trying to make the East insane, I would like to see Drew in Miami or in Boston. Okay. I mean, you're just trying to beef up the top of the Eastern Conference. What's the point if him going to the bottom if they're not going to play them? The bottom teams are going to play young guys anyways because they're trying to develop them. So there's no point of him.

He has to, Drew only fits on a top team. The worst case scenario for him is he goes to one of those mid teams. That's not at the bottom, but they're not at the top. They're in like the middle ground where they're just trying to be back in New Orleans.

You can go back to New Orleans, something like that. That's not, if you're asking me, you ask me for my dream situation. I told you Portland and Miami, or I'm sorry, Miami and Miami and a, Boston, I think those are the teams for him to be. I just don't think if, I don't know if that works logistically. All right, so we have a, we have it in.

It's a win, win, one of the rare three-team trades. No, we really believe this, though. It's a three-team win. Portland did great. Phoenix did great. And obviously, Milwaukee did great. I just like that Milwaukee got this done. I think it's really cool.

It went after it. Yeah. It's just right before camp, like go get Damian Lillard. The whole season just changed four days before camp. It was so negative right before that was all the Yonis talk. Yonis and he's leaving. and Milwaukee, if you don't win this year, he's gone. And da-da-da-da-da-da.

They signed, he's got four, you know, I don't know how. He's got like two, three brothers on staff. No, he does. He has two of his brothers on the team. I think it's one. He's two. He's an older, and he just signed a younger one.

No, the younger ones overseas in Greece. Oh, did he go to Greece? We can look that one up, yeah. I thought they just brought the younger one over. I think there's one in Greece. Regardless. You know, they've tried to do everything to make Yan is happy. Right, right?

He's always one of the best players in the world. Yeah. I don't know what else you do as a president of a team. Then if your best player is saying he's not happy, he wants this, this and that, I need to compete to win, otherwise I'm out. You go get him Damian Liller. And now it's like, what else you want? I got your brother.

You got Max. You got a hell of a cast around you. And I went and got you one of the best closures in the game. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like this is everything you can possibly do. There's some new roles for a guy like Chris Middleton and Bradley Beal, for example. these guys are going to be the third option.

It's only going to make them better, though. Yeah. Now Brad Beal's not getting the, every time Brad steps on the court, he's used to getting the best defender every night. Now he's not getting the first or second. So this guy's going to absolutely fry the other team's point guard who they usually hide on that off guard who like can't guard.

They'll throw him on that one guy. Yeah. Now they're throwing that guy or someone like that on Brad. He's going to absolutely cook people next year, bro. And so will Chris Middleton. They're going to put guys in a blender, bro. They both are absolutely bucket, machines and they're not getting the first or second best defender.

And you're starting Pat Conantin at the two for the Milwaukee Bucks? I wouldn't make any of those decisions yet. I'd go to camp and kind of figure that out. You know what I mean? I'm not putting Pat in there. I'm not putting Malik in there. Neither of them have like, not that they haven't proven they can't do it. They're just not like, neither of them are like solid starting to go.

I mean, you'll figure that out. You got the hard part done. You got Brooke, size. You got Bobby, great role player six minute in the year candidate. you got a star point guard, you got a star small forward, the most dominant playing in the NBA right now. And then you have Chris Middleton,

who's just a great complimentary, you talk about low maintenance, good guy, Chris Middleton. I mean, you got everything that you could possibly want. The only thing that could derail this team is health. That's it. Dame's got to stay healthy. If they stay healthy, that's my favorite to win the East.

I'm not even trying to overreact, but when I saw this situation, I was like, this team's going to be really good. They still need a couple pieces. They still need a piece or two. Don't do that. I'm not we're not even going to start what kind of do they need to do you need a backup guard they need something like that I'm not going to say who or what but I'm sure he lives in

winter park floor oh right I was kidding right no no that uh they do though they do they do need an extra they need a one or two people they need to fill it in but that's you could do that you can't fill it in there's players out there you can fill that in the hard part that you can't go out there and find you can't just go sign a damian lillard they got everything um so yeah the losers in this unfortunately are Miami You know, they have to go back with the team like last year, but without all their role players that they've lost

and their second or third best player who a guy who they had in the trading block for the past a year and a half. Now, like, hey, you're going to stay with us. Like, Tyler's probably like, man, you know what I mean? Yeah, I don't know what they're going to do with Tyler. It's got to be feeling the type of way. It's a weird situation.

Yeah. But as Miami always does, they just kind of figure out a way to just go. I'm not counting them out. I'm just saying it's... You can never count them out. You can never count Miami out. Not with Jimmy there and not with Spoh,

and Pat. You just can't. They'll figure out something. All right. Well, that wraps it up. That was crazy. We're at lunch and boom. Yeah. There it is. We were waiting on it. We said it was slow today. I'm excited. I'm excited for the season to start now, for sure. That changes the things a little bit. I got done before media day. We get Damon and some Milwaukee bugs and a little photo shoot. Get that. Get that cloud out of here, man. Like, I was tired of it. I had a feeling it was going to happen. I'm happy for him. Yeah. I know he's got to be. I mean, bro, this guy's like, bro, I can go get one maybe. That type of hope for a player like that, I mean, I'm sure he's

in the lab right now. Let's just go in the gym. I'm excited. This is dope. And you know what, Drew, I hope he ends up somewhere where he's deserving because he's just like the greatest guy. And he's a really good player. And him and his wife and his family, they're like, they're just fucking incredible, though. Like, seriously, I remember playing with him in New Orleans. Like, he's just a class act. You just don't see players like that. You would never know Drew's who he is and what he's done and what he's made. And either his wife. His wife's greatly accomplished in soccer, gold medal. Like, they just really like a star-studded family. And they, like, just walk around with the greatest humility.

I would love to see him in a great situation. That would be amazing. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another week, another episode with my guy, Pasha Hagigi. Here we are. Off guard. And what we got this week, man? What we got cooking up?

I've watched Kai Jones dancing on loop for the last. Nice. Bro, I don't want to get into this again. I got to lay off that whole city, man. I got nothing. Actually, I'm a Charlotte fan. Yeah. Notice that, first of all, great city.

Actually, he's a nice little city. I actually like Sharley. We're rooting for the team. The dancing is insane. They can't be happy about the dance. Well, here's the thing. His flexibility is actually impressive. And his athleticism for his size is actually remarkable.

I mean, I went to that game in the Summer League when he punched on Victor. He's actually a talented player. I don't know what's going on with that, with him. I think maybe he's just young having a good time and maybe we can't relate. First of all, there's worse things you can do than dance. It's not, it's crazy. That's what I'm saying. Of all the things he's doing, he's like dancing in front of his car, man.

The guy's, he's younger. We're also older and out of touch. Maybe like this is like a thing they do. I don't know. Yeah, I don't remember, you know, growing up watching Xavier McDaniel dancing, which is not the way it was. Xavier McDaniels is insane, bro. But I'm just saying he's...

How old are you? You see the gray hair. Xavier Dan from the Knicks? From a lot of teams. Sonics? Sonics. Sonics, I knew you're going to go there. The dancing, no, he is definitely flexible.

He is great dancer. Definitely flexible. We're going to get him on the You Got Served reboot. Since the last episode, I feel like I'm a fortune teller. Remember how much I was hyping up Usher? Tony of the concert was unbelievable. He has all the hits, King of R&B. He's going to do the Super Bowl halftime.

We've talked about the Super Bowl halftime before since last year's lackluster performance. Don't come at me. Rihanna is just not a lot of movement. Kai Jones would have done a better job with the dancing. I remember you weren't a fan of the Rihanna. I think we actually talked about it on the pod. pregnancy is beautiful. I just don't think it just wasn't like a great performance.

Yeah, she can't do too much because she's limited with the baby. But Usher's going to kill it. I'm so excited for people to experience what I saw when I went to Vegas and songs. He plays his catalog. He's going to be playing straight songs that the whole crowd will know. 100%. You're going to know every word to every song you plays. By the way, that's for everyone listening.

That was Austin. I mean, I can't hit that high note. That was pretty solid, though. That wasn't bad. We got to keep that one in. And another thing we talked about last week. week. There was obviously some rumblings about Travis Kelsey and Taylor Swift. I brought it up last week. It has exploded. It took all the juice away from Dion. And it is just everywhere. And I asked

you if you think it's a good idea to date someone that famous. So far, it looks like an unbelievable idea. Jersey sales through the roof. This is great for him. Yeah. But this isn't the part that we're worried about. It's about when things go sour and there's an album. I don't think there's anything serious going on. I think they're like just talking and it's fun right now. Throughout history, if we look at both of their exes, they're neither of each other's type. He's like, kind of like a more, I don't even call him, he's a little white chocolate. You know what I mean? And Travis's exes are obviously a lot different than, you know, with Taylor Swift is like that.

But I guess, you know, that's, I mean, who are we, man? Everyone has different types. It has been fun to watch, though, just the whole, like, hype behind. this thing. It just reminds you of what the internet is capable of now. Everything's so amplified to the point where something happens in the 90s, it's a big deal. But now there's so many channels where people can talk about it and make jokes about it and how many memes have you seen about it. And everything is just so much more explosive, you know what I mean? And it has been just hilarious to see. Yeah. He's come up a little bit off of it. He's already famous. He already had his own

Lane, Travis, obviously, is a Hall of Fame football player, when it's all said done. But you go out and date the biggest pop star in music, that's just going to elevate everything. Then you add to it that it's like Taylor, who's like this. I want to call her, like, she's like America's little darling for white people. Because that's just the truth. Nobody I know outside of that ethnic background really listens to her.

but in America that's the only one you really I mean I'd say she's the top five most famous woman on the planet would you say I would agree with you she is for sure I don't know one of her songs like you couldn't play me a tennis

Swiss song you definitely heard the Starbucks lover or something absolutely not you've definitely heard if I play it I've known one song you've walked into an express at the ultimate mall and you

and you heard like the clothing brand express? You've walked into American Eagle and heard some Taylor Swift? No, but that's where you would hear it at, though. I know that one song, it's like, I can't even tell you what it's about. It's like, we will never get, we will never, ever, ever keep back together. We were like five minutes and you've sang twice. Me singing in Taylor Swift song is even nuttier, but that's the only song I know.

But who, you know, I'm not cultured in her type of music. I'm happy for Travis, man. You know, she's sitting next to Mama, Mama Kelsey. See, it's cook it up. That's why I would think it's a little more, maybe a little more serious than you think. If you're with the mom, that's... And she left them after the game.

Did they... She left them after the game. What are they going to do? Leaves... I mean, she came all the way to Kansas City, at least they did he just take her out to eat after it. What are you going to do in Kansas City at 11 p.m. a night? I heard he rented out a restaurant.

That's what social media said. You got to at this point with her. I mean, that's the thing with him. He's now got to elevate everything he's ever done. He went from Dayton, you know, normal girls to now you got to rent out a restaurant. to take her to eat because she can't go to a normal restaurant. Yeah. You can't take her anywhere.

She's that famous, like you said. You know, it would be no different than someone just like randomly dating, you know, Kim Kardashian. But even more, like this is more. More famous than Kim Kardashian? I don't know about that. Here's the difference, right? Kim Kardashian might be as famous, but it's not an infatuation level like Taylor. If you took Kim Kardashian to a restaurant, they'd be girls.

They're like, oh my God, that's Kim. They're like, maybe like take a picture or something, but like at the end of day, They know it's like, it's Kim, man. She's a reality TV star. She dates famous people. She's a pretty girl who lives in LA. That is her talent. And she, like, has built a brand off or whatever, whatever.

That's, that's Kim. Taylor Swift's like a pop star. Like, she walks in their girl scream and lose their fucking mind. Right. They're like, holy fuck Taylor Swift's in here. There's just, like, a difference. You know what I mean? That makes sense.

The difference from Beyonce walking in a restaurant and everybody that's like, doesn't know what to do versus like Kim Kardashian. Who is just as famous? It's just not the same type of fame. You know what I mean? Like, Travis, like, but you can't go to a mall with her. I could go to a mall with Kim. She'd get stopped plenty of times for pictures.

She's really famous, super famous. Taylor Swift had, like, a whole crowd following her behind her. Yeah, speaks more to what music does for people, what music means to people, you know what I mean? Like, you have to be truly iconic to have, like, that level of... It's like LeBron-type shit, bro. Like, LeBron goes somewhere, and it's like the whole fucking restaurant shuts it down when he walks in there.

Right. I remember, I'll tell a story a little quick, and this is actually the comedy. I remember one time we went out. I don't know what it was for. It's for, like, some type of event for... I want to say, it might have been all. Star Weekend? I don't know. It was in LA and it's a highlight room and we all were out. LeBron was out in a whole different section, table, blah, blah, blah. And it was packed.

Everybody's in there. This guy walks out, walks up out of his section to leave the club, the whole club followed him out. It immediately got empty when he left as if like you couldn't party without him being in there. It was the strangest thing I've ever seen. That's crazy. Like everybody's in it. Mind you, there's like 30 NBA players in here. Girls everywhere, blah, blah, a good time. This guy leaves and everybody else was like, let's get the tab. He's the barometer of if it's fun or not. If he's like, I'm out, that everyone's like, yeah, it's like, yeah, let's get the tab. We got to get out of here. I was just like, what is going on? This is insane. That's some juice right there. So yeah, I think there's levels to like fame,

for sure, obviously. Taylor Swift is like at the top of that iceberg. So Travis, like you said, the jersey sales, all this stuff. Like, their whole family, his pod, his brother. Like, it's just getting to a point where it's like, wow. They played each other in a Super Bowl last year. Like, they, they, It's, things are going up. Things are looking good. For them, right now, it's looking very up. Yeah, they have a whole, and this Travis is really, I mean, this is, this is a great move by him.

They seem awesome, too. It's well deserved. Another guy that's been made available, it looks like, is Buddy Healed, who. He's available every year. Right. He's literally available. 40% from three for his career, 16 points a game for his career. Great player.

I just looked this up. He has the most threes ever by a player that's never played in the playoffs. there's like this thing with him. I don't know what it is, but like his numbers, when you look him up, they're so impressive. He's like one of them all-time three-point.

It's like crazy. Yeah. And like 16 point per game, average on his, like on his career is nuts. Whenever you look up like most threes in the last five years, you know,

Steph, Clay, Daniel Liller, buddy healed. It's like he's always up there. He has like these impressive stats and numbers. Well, it seems like every team he, like he's just available

and every team he goes to, people will trade him. I don't understand that. Maybe it's, I don't know. And it's interesting to judge, buddy, because he hasn't been on a playoff team yet. I would like to see him in, like, that arena. That's a lot of threes for losing teams. That's crazy.

He's always been on very bad teams. He's drafted to New Orleans when they stunk. Well, they traded them. And then, like, New Orleans started to go on the rise. Then he went to sack. Terrible. Got rid of him. They started to get really, really well.

It's tough. Then he went to Indiana, and they, like. You thought you were the good luck, Chuck. these city he looks like yeah yeah go to Indiana and they're like they stink Indiana has been terrible the past couple of years now they're like starting to

Halliburton we got Mathurin we got Matherin we got another rookie Jarrett Walker started to turn the corner now yeah you know I mean like now Indiana's on the rise they're like it's time to shut them and now they're like let's trade them it's like what's going on I know at some point he's like can I get in on this

you know I mean like I've only put up really good numbers you can't say my numbers aren't solid he shoots a high percentage from three he's one of the best three point shooters It was crazy when he retires. He's going to go down as one of the best three-point shooters of all time. His number statistically literally put him in that thing.

So I would like to see... I mean, my magic would need a guy like this. There's just a sniper. They go out there and hit a few threes a game, spread the floor. Can't every team use him? For sure. Every team needs shooting. And he's one of the best in the league.

Besides the teams that he's on. It's so strange to me. That's how I'm like, I don't understand the whole like buddy healed like discard. You know what I mean? Like everybody just kind of like discards him. And I don't know. I would like to see kind of buddy on a playoff team. Right.

Like you think on maybe a little bit of a lower level in the league Beasley. These guys can shoot. Every team could use them. But for some reason, you know, these guys get shot around. They're always in trade rumors and this and that. It's usually defensive and shot selection. Yeah. Is what gets in their way a little bit.

And people question their ability to maybe play on a really good team and fit in. But it's hard to judge buddy because he's never been in one. Right. I've never seen him on a good team and not fit in. It just hasn't. Or maybe I'm tripping. Am I wrong here? He's always shot a really nice person.

I guess I said 40% from three for his career. And in college you, I mean, he's just always been a, he's always been a good shooter. I saw Cooper Flagg, took his first official visit to you con. I have a question for you. You're definitely better, well, more worse than I am in this. What's this thing with players now take a visit and they do a photo shoot in the Jersey and their family's there? and they're decked out in the clothes. I mean, I don't understand that.

It's weird because if he goes to Duke and then he's has these pictures of him in a Yukon jersey, it's weird. It's the dumbest thing. It's definitely that's new, right? It's been going on in the last like four years, five years. It's like what they do now. When they go on their visit, they do photo shoots in their jerseys. And then they'll post it on their Instagram. I remember Ronnie James had an Ohio State one.

I was just so confused. Everybody's like, oh, he's going there. I see this all time. Someone goes there and wears like a whole Syracuse thing. They do this whole thing. It's like, what do we are you going? Did you commit there? Yeah.

Do you remember like back in the day, man, you just got a couple of visits, you got some letters, you went to the school, you took your official, you made a decision, and then that was that. And if anything, if you were a really good player, you do like your whole announcement on ESPN and like pick the hat. For sure. You not just. I remember when he got gained, they did the, um, at TechU with like Rick Fox. Tech use.

They did the announcement, the starting lineup announcement for him. I thought that was a big deal. Now that it just got the family out there throwing up the U for Yukon. It's just like it's a lot. If you don't go there, they're going to, it's kind of. I don't know. Maybe I'm once again showing my age. It's not weird for Yukon. They're only doing what they have to do. Right. Again, they'll do whatever it takes.

This is new age recruiting. So Yukon's doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing. They're seeing all these other schools doing this exact thing. So they bring the family out. I mean, they're doing it. They're hoping that he puts the jersey on. They're like, you know what? I look great in this navy blue and red. This looks unbelievable. Coach Hurley's doing his thing. Yeah. Yeah. I actually like Coach Trilly too. And I like Yukon's program. But would I like to see Cooper in a Duke jersey? Spoken like a true dukey.

Sure. He belongs there. Think about it. Think about it. I'm not going to get into it. I'm not going to get into. I'm not going to pull the whole card. He looks like a Duke player.

Yeah, but all those guys get hated on, man. The JJ Reddick's the Christian Layton. There's so much hate that they're loved. You can say what you just say like Christian Layers hated everywhere, but like that guy goes everywhere. and like, people ask fuck Christian Lainer. And he gets dumb love. JJ Redick gets dumb love.

The hate is a compliment. They wouldn't hate you if you couldn't ball. There's a lot of Duke players that go to Duke and they get no hate because some guys get to go to Duke. Kyle Singler went, not that hated. Want to title though? No. It just all depends on who you are.

JJ was like out there talking shit. That's why he was hated. And he's a white boy with like zero swag. He wore like baggy shorts and low socks. And he's out there like just getting the haircut back in them versus like now. It's a whole different look. Yeah, he's just, you know, it looks crazy. But he's out there just giving people 30 pieces.

You know what I mean? He was unbelievable I do. And then he went in the NBA and able to find a way and be like a little knit-knit shooter. He was shooting those series before threes were even popular. No, I play with the JJ in, you know, in L.A. Yeah. You know, can shoot, can really shoot. It's about it.

But he could shoot the shit out the ball. Underrated playmaking. Who? J.J. Get the fuck out of here. J.J. is not playmaking nothing. He's smart play. J.J.'s purpose was to play really well in the first quarter.

This guy would. come out in the first five minutes of every game and just light it up. While everyone's like kind of easing into the game, he'll come off a downscreen 100 miles per hour. He like, I think led the league in scoring in the first like seven minutes of the game, six minutes again, some crazy stat. And then after that, he'll only score like four or five more points for the rest of the game, but I'll have 12 in the first quarter.

He'll get his like 14, 13, 15. I mean, he was hooping when I played with the clips. JJ did his stuff, no doubt about it. He was a really good role player, really good shooter in the league. That's how a lot of guys pan out from Duke. They end up being role players. Every once in a while, you'll get a star here and there. I mean, it's definitely different now when you have Kyrie Irvings and Zion's.

Yeah, Tatums and stuff like that, Ingrams. But we usually bred like really good pros. There's just guys who are able to go in the league and sustain and just be a good pro. Cooper has obviously star ability and has a chance to be, you know, people look at him and say Gordon Hayworth. Is this an official pitch for him to go to Duke? I feel like, I mean, this is. Oh, no, no, no. Well, listen, man, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas,

the kids going top three in the draft. So it don't matter. This guy can go to Rollins College. You can go top five in the draft. He's already built that through high school. It just matters what he, what stone is he trying to, what step is that going to be?

What's it going to look like? You're going to the league after one year. You're going to college for seven months. What do you want out of college? What do you want out of it? Who do you want to be coached by? Where do you want to live? What environment?

What conference? That's what has to matter for him because everything else, it doesn't mean anything. You're not going to be there long enough to enjoy it. Like, you know, this and that, like, bro, you're going to be there for six. How long were you actually at Duke? Half a year. Seven months.

And I barely stayed on campus. The second you guys lost to Lehigh, you were out? No, I stayed. I stayed and finished that whole year. I did. I took my exams and everything. But it's different, man. Like, once you know you're leaving, like, was I in class every single day?

No. I went to each class maybe once or twice a week. I mean, we went to this class like Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Monday, I probably wasn't there. I couldn't tell you, but I wasn't like there every day. I did enough to pass, get my credits just in case

if I wanted to come back and graduate and just lose a whole year for no reason. What was your favorite class while you were there? I took drama. I took acting and it was like me and Quinn and Marshall Plumley all in the same class and we were just having an absolute blast, bro. We were just making jokes all day.

It was comedy. Quinn Cook, man. And he's so funny, bro. Quinn's like a dude. natural. Quinn like belongs on TV. I don't know how he's not doing something. Like I would love to see Quinn like do ACC network stuff for Duke. I think he'd be good at it. He's funny. And he's a he's a I don't want to call him a legend, but he had a great Duke career. Sure. And he went to O'Kill too. It's a very nice story. And he went to the Warriors and won a championship. Yeah, yeah. So

it won national championship. It's a brief, awesome basketball career. He had won national championship in high school for O'Kill. They won the national championship at Duke, was on that team with the five, starting point guard for that team. Was him and Tyos Jones, right? Him and Tyos ran it, yeah. And then goes to the pros and wins

with the Lakers and the Warriors. Like, just keeps winning. Yeah. Him and Patrick McRaw, you would just win titles. Yeah. Quinn put him more work than Patrick McCraw. Quinn, like, had a stint where he was playing in some really good minutes for the Warriors.

is at least. Quinkahoo, he's just undersized. He's got game. But you would think with that success of winning, I would like to see him on TV summer. He's hilarious, too. Did you get anything out of that drama class? Are you any acting skills?

No, I don't remember. It was, the teacher hated us. We were, like, late to half the classes and only came here and there. And then, like, we're, like, expected to be in, like, a play and don't know the lines. And, like, it was a mess.

I also remember I played. I had sports science, and then I had one other class. It was like, war in the Caribbean or some nutty shit. It was ridiculous, bro. What's the biggest difference from when you were playing AAU and you were being recruited versus players now?

We already mentioned, you know, players, you know, putting on the jersey during their official visit and doing a photo shoot and everything like that. What else do you remember? Obviously, social media wasn't as big back then either. I don't remember. I mean, I don't know if you were on MySpace or what it was back then. The biggest difference is money.

You know, kids are getting paid now and it's illegal versus not. when I played this very frowned upon and it's like considered a scandal for a guy was getting paid. I mean, you saw all the stuff that happened. The FBI, like, rated agencies and remember that whole thing? Like it's kind of messy where obviously now the NIL deals, these guys, these kids are getting paid. You know what I mean? So it's made it probably a lot harder for college coaches in recruiting. It's made it a lot harder.

I know from myself, I have a grassroots AU program. And we go out there and we're like recruiting kids to come to our program and play. And these kids, it's not just a simple yes. it's like, what can you do for me? Or like how much you got for me? And it's like, what? I'm paying for you to go to every tournament. I'm paying for you to be laced in Adidas.

I'm paying for you to be seen by every college coach in America. You and your parents don't have to worry about a dollar. And you're asking me, how much do I want to pay you to go play A.U basketball? It's crazy. It's nuts, bro. So I'm not with that shit. Unless you're a Cooper flag. I throw you a little bag.

You know what I mean? But if you're like, or you know, you're a boozer twin. I'll do, you know, we could do something then. Some of these kids are like average low level D1, like, how much you got for me? I'm like, brother, I got a handshake. You're not getting paid by me. If you're that good, you're going to get paid anyway. What do you want for me?

Some of them are just greedy, bro. Like, I don't even understand this. Like, you want like 10. I get it if your family needs and money. But somebody's like come from like good parents and good homes. Like, how much are you going to pay? So I'm just like, you're out of your fucking mind, man. I don't like that.

I don't like kids getting paid. I have no problem with kids getting brand deals and getting paid for that. I don't like the money to like the weird money. The money that's like this much money just to do something that before it was being done for free. I have no problem with a kid getting sponsorships. I have no problem with the kids getting paid by Nike or Adidas or whatever it is. I have no problem with any of that. But like when like kids just want a handout for bread to just come to play for your program

or to like go to a tournament with your program. Like, you know, I don't know. You know, I get it even for college. These kids are getting paid to go to college now. A lot of money. A lot. They're getting paid like, yeah, I got. 350. I got 250,000 to go to college, bro. Yeah. You know what I mean? This is cash. These kids are

walking around driving nice. That's probably the big difference to you were. I mean, obviously, you know, your family was well off, but, you know, a lot of your teammates probably is just different, you know, getting like eating and things they were doing. I have no, and again, I like that. I like the college paying them. I like college paying them. They should. The colleges are making millions off these kids. I have no, it's only the AAU stuff. I have a problem with kids getting paid to go on an AU program. That's the only thing that's weird to me. And I had Neil's great. Sponsorship's great. Getting paid to go to college?

Dope, man. Get your bread. But that's the biggest difference. This money shit has changed everything. Jabari Parker recently made some comments. He plays for Barcelona now in the EuroLeague. And he made some comments about the NBA being watered down. There's only 12 teams that are trying to win. All the other teams are, you know, developing youth or, you know, tanking, whatever it is, getting asked for potential. I agree with a lot of the things he's saying. It's tough hearing it from a guy that people are saying, well, that's because you

can't make the NBA. So they're not saying his comments are valid. But I do agree in the 90s, 2000s, people who are teams, no matter where you were, you know, bottom of the league, middle of the pack, teams are trying to get the best players to have the best chance of winning. And I don't know if that's necessarily the case all the time. You know, a team that's a young team right now that's, you know, trying to develop their youth or still get draft picks.

They're not going to get a guy that's been NBA 12 years. Right. That's a solid role player. It doesn't fit their timeline. And it just makes them in the middle of the pack. Yeah. And it doesn't make the bad enough to get a bad pick or develop. or takes away from the youth.

What do you think about that? Do you agree with his comments? I don't know if watered down is the correct word. It's just different. The league's a lot younger. So because of that, you're dealing with a lot of the things you see with youth. I want to make sure I respond to this the right way. I do think it's tough coming from him because of his situation.

People are just like, we know why you're saying this. But there is truth of what he's saying in regards to the NBA is just a lot different from when he came in. It's even younger. It's getting younger. and younger to the point where you feel like the NBA is almost an extension of college where like half of each team is like just a bunch of guys he'd never heard of like these young kids and then you got like the pros that we grew up guys that I played with yeah I just think times are

changing I don't want to call it watered down just because it's different yeah but look at the whole game and we got in season tournament and we have uh this layout's different they want to change this is different they want to I mean the game in general is changing um we do have younger players two-way contracts I mean, the whole league is just not what it was eight or nine years ago. I'm not saying it's good or bad, but I don't think it's watered down. I just think, you know, they did push a lot of players out

this summer was weird. And I'm one of them for now. I do think I'll sign. I know I'll sign somewhere, God willing. But it's been a weird summer. A lot of guys have been kind of pushed out and they're like, it's just all young. Even if they can't play.

Like some of these guys can't play, look about it. I'm not even trying to be mean, man. there's a lot of guys that are playing right now in the NBA that are like and I think that's what he's trying to say because I don't think the league's watered down you still got the same stars you still got the good teams that were good last year good this year yeah uh you got young talented rookies high draft picks just like always you know but there's like this there are some like it's weird there's some guys in the league you're like how the fuck is that guy playing basketball right and I'm not saying it's due to the potential huh that's due to the player having potential maybe he has potential and he's young and they like he's like he's I mean, that's just what it is. Now if you're 22, 21, you got a chance. You know what I mean? And it's tough because, to Jabari's point, they'd rather have that guy than an older guy

because they're not going to win anyway. Yeah. So why... The older guy might be better and make them win more games but not have a chance of winning the title and then your mediocre team. And now you don't get a high draft fit. Right.

So having a 30-year-old like myself or like a Will Barton or this guy or whoever doesn't might fit your mold because, you know, if you're like a subpart team, why would I want a 30-year-old who can actually help us win games or know how to play? You would trade him if the guy was who...

For example, in 2001, Jerry Stackhouse was second in league in scoring, average 30 points a game. He was on the Pistons. They won 30 games. They would have traded to this day and age if he was scoring 30 points games. A good team would have plucked him probably.

He scored 30 points a game on a team that's the bottom of the league. They would have taken him out. And they were just rolling with him, playing him and everything like that. And I looked at that roster just to make sure he was averaging 30 points a game. The youngest guy on the team was Brian Cardinal at 23.

That was the youngest guy on the team. That could be the oldest guy on a lot of teams. It's crazy. It's just, it is a different league. It is, and I think it does frustrate a lot of guys, especially guys who are older, guys like Jabari, Kemmel Walker. You've seen these guys go overseas. You know, guys have kind of gotten pushed out a little bit.

And I don't think the NBA's watered down. I don't. I just think it's very different and it's in a different place. And it is much younger. But because of such, you are seeing just like a handful of guys, a large handful of guys. And you can name literally a couple on each team. You're like, how is he? How's he have a deal?

How's that guy playing? Right. Who is he? But then you have to, then you think like, well, why is that? And then the Jabari's point, it's like a lot of teams, I'm not saying they want to lose because they go out there to try to win every night. But purposely, the roster that's put together is one that is not going to be a winning one. And then you get higher picks and you get higher draft picks. it buys longevity for GMs and presidents.

A rebuild is the greatest thing, a GM and president can hear, man. And it works sometimes. The magic traded Gordon, Fornier and Vucevic all on the same day of the trade deadline. Guess what? Now they are in a better place. You know, they have, you know, Palo, Franz Wagner, you know, Wendell Carter. So I understand it could work when you get rid of the, you know, older guys to, you know, rebuild. See, that's where I'm different in this.

But it can. I'm not saying it works every time. It can work. It can work. It only has worked for a handful of. teams. Take O KC out next. I just, I just name the match. They're in a better situation now. Maybe. Yeah, they got Paulo and Wagner.

Yeah. That's it. Two, you know, under 22 guys that are, I think they're one of the best young duos in NBA. Yeah, I know, I'm saying. Yeah, no, no, I like Paulo and Wagner. I like that. Outside of that, man, you know, I, I don't really know yet. We'll have to wait and see. They have, like, the strangest mix of players I've ever seen. They have, like, 22 point guards on their team. They literally have, like, 12 guards on their team. I don't know who do you play. Well, I think he's one of the magic with the magic Is Fultz?

Well, Cole Anthony is one of the more talented scores on the team. Is, uh, what's a, uh, he's, he's perfect for the sixth man. He's gonna be a six man of the year, Canada. Who's starting one guard? Markle Fultz, which when we had him last year, we were a six seed record wise.

So what is, uh, what's the guy they draft Suggs? Where's he at? Suggs is could start at the two probably this year. So you're starting backcords, Fultz and Suggs. It was last year. when Fultz played. You can start Gary Harris.

No, they don't even play him. They drafted Anthony Black and Jet Howard. They don't even play Gary. And Gary's like a pretty damn good player. Yeah, he's what they need to. You can shoot. All right, we're back and we're introducing a new segment. Our producer, Ben,

is actually going to kind of lead it here. So, Ben, let's see what you got. All right. So this segment is going to be called Lost in the Sauce. Essentially, it's going to be NBA trivia. It's really test both of your knowledge. of the history of the NBA. You know, Austin, you've obviously been around the game,

your entire life and Pasha, you're a self-proclaimed basketball nerd. Am I? Am I on? Yeah? No, you're absolutely right. I just worried for Austin because I think in his situation, he was so busy playing and was obviously such a phenom at a young age

that maybe he was so busy playing that he wasn't maybe watching as much. I have faith. I have faith in Austin's knowledge. You had this thing where, like, you think because I was in the gym, all the time that I didn't. Like, bro.

Obviously, you come from a basketball fan, but I think you know a lot. I know more than any player. I'm willing to put my basketball knowledge versus any current player in the NBA. I don't know. That's kind of, we'll see how you do here. That's right.

Yeah. With exception of like a Chris Paul or something like that. I have some background for the listeners. This segment kind of came to life, basically, because of just several conversations between you guys about players and teams. that don't get talked about enough, kind of an NBA discourse these days

who essentially get lost in the sauce. So hence the name. Few ground rules, no looking up answers on your laptops, on your phones. I'm relying on the honor system. You do that a lot. And you have to,

even if you don't know, you have to at least attempt the guess. All right. Okay. No time limit. I'm going to get killed. But if it gets unreasonable, we're going to make you guess.

And then once the answer is revealed, if you guys have any expanded thoughts, on that player or that team, feel free to add them in. All right. Let's hear it. First ever edition of Lost in the Sauce. Good luck, guys. First up, who was the NBA's 1995 most valuable player?

MVP, 95. I'm going to be killed with this. Do you know the answer? Yes. Hold on, hold on. Give me a chance. 1995. This is unbelievable.

1995 MVP? Carl Malone? No. Charles. No. Can I say it? Can I just do it? Are you done?

Go ahead. All right, it was David Robinson, the admiral. That's correct. Hakeem Olajuwon in the conference finals killed him with all those upfakes and everything. It was kind of like, that's the real MVP. I think David Robinson actually got presented the MVP trophy right before game one of the conference finals against Akeem where he got really offended. I think Kenny Smith talks about that story. But yeah, that's a game.

95 tough year. My magic loss got swept in the finals. There you go. That's correct. David Robinson is correct. All right. Second. Who led the NBA in assists in 2012,

2013, which was Austin's rookie season? Led the league in assists. 2012, 2013. I'm like trying to think who was dominating at that time. It's a point guard. Yeah. It's actually correct. Bang.

I would have guessed Rondo too, but yeah, that's good. There we go. Wait, it's not like a score. I would have got that right. No, yeah. Do you want that point, Austin? You don't have to keep score. I will.

It's one of one. Wait, what? I could have got that right. I didn't even could say anything. I'm letting you go first every time. Just say it first. We might have to institute the sort of buzzer situation, but we'll figure that out in the next version.

All right, question three. And I'm solely using this year because when I asked Pasha, how far we should go back, he said this season. I just want to see if he really knows this. and Austin, I hope you do too. Who were the 1979 NBA champions? I know that answer. 1979.

I automatically got it. So I tried to get it and get the point? Seattle's Supersonics. Dennis Johnson got the finals MVP. They beat the bullets. It was a rematch of the finals year before, maybe. I was about to say the Washington bullets. Well, no.

That was the year before. West Unseld. It was close. Bonus points. If you know the final score of the series, like how it ended. Not the score of the game, But did they went in how many games?

Close. Six. All right. Five games. I thought the playoffs only went to five then. What? It was the finals. The finals was the last.

Yeah, the first series, first round used to be best of the five. All right. Next up. Who was the NBA scoring champion for the 2002-2003 season? Tracy McGrady. That's correct.

Good guess. Is that correct? That's correct. It's not a guess. Jesus. That is. I was about to say Shaq. Can I say something really quick?

While you were out playing and being really good at basketball and working on your game, I was at home watching like rising stars on VHS and being obsessed with basketball. And like collecting cards. I was like, it's not fair. Go ahead. There we go. All right. And last one on here.

Fuck this segment. Who was the 2007? Defensive player of the year. I'm going to go with... This is tough. 2007. Let's see. The spurs swept the calves in the finals. The cabs got to the finals by being the Pistons,

so Ben Wallace was still good. I mean, Dwight Howard snuck in a couple of these. Ben Wallace or Dwight Howard. This was a surprising answer, just looking back. So it wasn't any of the usual Okay. And Ron Artax was on the Rockets.

No. Wait, look at me. 2007. You got to make a guess. I'll go with 2007. Defensive player of the year? Bro.

I couldn't even give you a guess. I was going to say Kevin Garnett. Good guess. Not correct, but it's a good guess. Pasha? Can I get a conference? The Western Conference. I'm actually interested in see if you're going to get this.

Let's go Redler. What do you got? I was going to say, what did you say? Ridler, what the... I am going to say, I'm just going to say, run our test. It's not right. It's not. It was Marcus Camby.

You know what's crazy? Can I say something? You are not going to guess Mark. Marcus Camby. Can I say something? I literally in my mind for a second. I hate you. Thought of Marcus Camby. And I was like, that's just no way. I should just went for it. Wow. You know what? That was humbling for me. I don't know how it felt for you. Right on par with what I... Can I just say something though? Austin is people don't understand how much you're obsessed with basketball. We were at coffee the other day at lunch. This guy was watching highlights on his phone. We sat there for two hours pulling up...

I think I pulled up Genoble highlights. You were watching Kyrie. We just kept going back and forth. for two hours where I call it. The staff there thinks were like freaks. But yeah, you're obsessed with basketball. Just because you didn't do well. It's just my era. It's just my era. You're not a historian. Not past the 2004, 2003.

Like that's where my cutoff is. I'm like modern day. My history is like I go on YouTube and watch Darren Williams for two hours. I'm not watching like Pistol Pete. Well, okay. I'm not, no offense to Pistol Pee. I'm not watching him either. I'm not even watching early 80s, 90s, I'm watching like, you know, guys, the playing styles changed so much.

I just never really got into the. If there was a hardwood classic on, which they've been on a lot on NBA TV recently, you wouldn't watch a 1993. No, no, no, no interest. Guys guarding each other five feet away from each other, giving them the three the entire game. I have no interest in seeing it. We watched Sun's Bulls finals game. And what did we do?

After the first quarter, we were like, like, turn this shit off. you had a three whenever you wanted it everyone's garbage when they weren't tased it was a different game back then guys were backing them down from the half court like I can't do it man

I tell my dad is Can you give us another question Do you have a backup? I actually do I actually do Let's see one more For this situation I want to go out on top

I want to go out on top All right All right Here's the last one See if you guys can get this What organization has the third most championships in NBA history

All right already got that. Spurs. No. No? I'm going to go with Troy? No, hold on. Everybody knows one and two. Yeah, one and two is there.

Is it the Bulls? No. Don't tell me it's the Warriors. It is. It's Golden State Warriors. Ben, I have a question for you. Who's going to start this year for the Golden State Warriors? Like, all five? when we name all five.

Give me the five. I'm going, Steph Curry, Clay Thompson, Andrew Wiggins, Dremon Green. Looney. And for at least,

for at least, the first couple of games, it'll be Chris Paul and they'll take him. No, they'll have a quick cut. He's going Chris Paul over Looney. I got to start,

Looney is one of the most underrated, undervalued bigs in basketball. I think Looney needs to start, but who do I think will start? because of non-basketball things. I think it's going to be Chris, for at least the beginning.

No, I think I have Chris coming up to bench. And guess what? If you're playing well, you'll finish the game. Simple as that. That's the most important thing. Finish the game. It's all matters. Has it Luni not missed the game for a couple of years?

I think he's got a, I don't know. He's done a lot for that team. Do you know Chris does if he comes off the bench and plays well? He extends his career by another three or four years. Not that he gives a fuck because he's already playing to like age 40 and he's made over 300 million. But if he's able to, like come off the bench and play well and accept the role.

People like, oh man, look at Chris, man. This guy, starter, Hall of Fame, point guard, first ballot, unanimous, goes to the Warriors, no problem, come off the bench, no ego, plays well, finishes some games when he does, when he does and he's on the bench active. Chris does that, bro. He'll have that job available for him for another three or four years to other teams and still get paid decent money. I think it's really important for him to do that.

Otherwise, he can go out this way, like I got a start or not. He's earned it. But I would like to see him come off the bench and just, like, play really well. He's done everything you could possibly do as a starter. He doesn't, he has nothing to prove as a starter. Yeah. There's nothing to prove. He just needs the ball in his hands, right?

I just don't. Give him the second unit. They don't have pool in there anymore. They need him. Yeah. You don't got this guy just hoisting shots. You could throw Chris in there. Chris will run like a smooth offense.

At the end of the day, you know, you got a good point guard doing some pick and roll action. They'll get some good looks. Got to come off the bench. Him starting just doesn't even make sense defensively with him and step out there. It's not good. It sends the wrong. I think to Luni who was, you know, that lineup won like a title together a couple years ago.

This guy Loney does all of the dirty work. No praise. He does just so much dirty work as Draymond. No praise, bro. I would have had Luni on the goddamn USA team, Fiba team. I guarantee you would have more three rebounds. It would have gave a need for sure.

I like that segment. I'm going to get killed every time, but it's fun. Yeah, I appreciate you, Ben. We're doing that every week. I got to get my confidence up every week by busting your ass in that game, that can go ahead into the weekends.

So for the fans who haven't heard us in our last episode, we're doing a little segment now, or we just did, loss on the sauce, really just trying to give a little light and shine to players that maybe we're lost in the sauce that people don't talk about before the social media age,

before this really boom of the NBA basketball in general, there's a lot of lost, talented, talented players that play in our league that just don't get the recognition they deserve. So we're going to do a little trivia here here and there to, you know, see what we know. You're probably going to win 90% of the time. You're like, stomped the Schwab.

But I'll do my best. Today was no different. You crushed. I didn't know. I totally forgot about Marcus Camby. That kind of goes into your defensive player of the year issue that you said last pod. They give it to a big man who probably led the NBA in blocks. That's what it is.

But shout out to Marcus Camby. Can I say something about that? Yeah, go ahead. That segment we had about, we talked about how defensive. the player of the year always goes to the bay. I got a monologue text message from Rudy, Rudy Gobert. As you should. And he was very passionate about his side. First off, I love Rudy. I think he's, I don't know why people have this dislike towards him. He's like such a great job.

He's a part of one of the most lopsided trades. People say, what trade? What trade is the trade of the timber? What's so lopsided about it? The guys that he was traded for aren't even there anymore. Walker Kessler, all the picks. Yeah, but everybody else in that trade is like scattered around the league. It's fine. We don't have to get it to the trade. I don't think it's the most of the opposite trade.

A lot of stuff. He was just like, this is why the big is, I mean, he just went into a point after point after point. I was just like, bro, I actually agrees a lot of things you're saying.

I'm just, I also think guards should, it should be mixed. It's like 90% bigs who win this award. Yeah. He's like, but the big has to, you know,

we see the, you know, he's, that's why I love it. He's very passionate about his, you know, his job. I'll give him that.

But it's so funny, I see this message from him, and I click it, and it's like a foot-long message. I'm just typing. I'm like, whoa. I would have preferred a voice note from him. I think that would have been way better.

You would have had to play that one on the pod. He was not happy with my take on the guards. Would you write back? I was like, in all greens, I agree with you. But at the end of the day, if you'd look at our team last year, you are definitely our defensive guy I'll give you that

but when we were in a tight game who did we need to go get a stop is either me or Jada McDaniels we're guarding the best player at the end of the game I'm just keeping it 100 and it's still my stance we played Dallas your job is go get that rebound Jaden's job is to go out there and try to guard

Luca and I'm guarding Kyrie that's what it was last year my stance hasn't changed but I totally understand what Rudy's saying I understand the importance of a big in the defensive You have to have a good big defensively to win. Or someone who can do it, switch and guard and contest the rim. I totally understand what Rudy's saying.

He was very passionate about it, though. It was just nice to see that we're being listened. Shout out to Rudy. That's all I got for you this week. It's a weird time right now in sports. There's not a lot going on in the basketball world. So during these times, we'll kind of tap into some history, really just talk about the game in general.

But things will pick up in these coming weeks, man. This is training camps starting for some. teams Friday, some Monday. So we are right around the corner from all the action. And we got a big year ahead of us, man. This is going to be a much, much bigger and better year that we even had last year. So for all the listeners who started from us from the beginning or new listeners, you have a lot to be excited about. Appreciate it, man. I'm excited for next week. Come on and talk about some games. It'll be nice. It'll be nice to be able to watch games a night before. Did you see that? Or did you see that play? I miss it. Last year, it was really nice, like watch games and be able to talk

about it. So it's good, though. We had a great summer. This was a, this is official. kind of like the last summer episode without basketball starting or preseason at least so uh we we've done well man we appreciate you guys hanging hanging with us yeah yeah for sure it's been tough it's been tough man to have these on a weekly basis without any basketball going on you have to kind of find things to talk about but we have um there's been plenty of drama the NBA doesn't disappoint uh it's a soap opera nonetheless for sure but uh we got the real stuff coming you know in coming week so i'm excited all right y'all y'all be safe