The Ringer NBA Show - Why Fighting in the NBA Is (Mostly) Extinct, and Advice for Young All-Stars | Real Ones

Episode Date: February 15, 2024

Logan and Raja discuss the altercation between Isaiah Stewart and Drew Eubanks, how fighting in the NBA has diminished over the years, and why today’s game is the safest era of all time (1:47). Next, the guys talk about All-Star Weekend and their advice for young players experiencing the events for the first time (26:07). Finally, the guys close with their Real Ones of the Week (41:40). Email us questions for Mailbag Monday! [e-mail] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout ringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This might be the best quarterback draft class in years, and we have huge franchises like Chicago, New England, and Washington, with a ton on the line. My name is Craig Horlbeck and I host the Ringer NFL Draft Show with Danny Kelly, Ben Solack, and Danny Hyfitz. We cover trades, free agency, the draft, obviously, everything. We'll tell you all about which quarterbacks are going to be good, which quarterbacks are going to be bad, like Kenny Pickett,

and if there's a diamond in the rough like Brock Purdy. Follow us at the Ringer NFL Draft Show on Spotify. What's popping, Real Ones, Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bill there. Roger's really chipper and awake. He took his pre-game, pre-pod nap, and he's just, you know, he's just so jipper. It's just, I don't know.

What's going on, man? How you doing? I'm tired. It's good, man. Hey, I know it's a little early out there. I am shaking. Like, you had COVID. I didn't have COVID.

It wasn't the flu, but some nasty little head cold. But I woke up today feeling better than I had the last couple of days. So that's a positive. And then my young gun, has his first round of state playoffs tonight at 7.30. So I got, hey, bro, I'm good. You got state playoffs out there right now? We got state playoffs.

Berkeley High. Shout up to Berkeley High out here at the North Coast section playoffs on Friday night against Liberty High School. I think I'll pull up to that. Shout out to the gang. You know what I mean? We out here. No doubt. So when you ask why, you know, I just feel it's a good day.

Okay. That's what's up. I'm really happy for you, but good job, man. Shout out to you. So I want to start this off. I want to talk about something that we don't normally talk about on the pod, which is fighting, you know? I just let's get it all the way out there. Isaiah Stewart just, you know, cold cocked drew Ebanks.

They went chest to chest. This is all reported, by the way. Went chest to chest. Isaiah Stewart reportedly just, ah, this gay Drew Eubanks won, got arrested and got a citation at the arena. He was let go. But we don't know the reasoning behind this. But I'm just fascinated by obviously fighting one and fighting in the NBA number two. And number three, how it's evolved, right?

Because we don't, whether we know the reason or not, we don't see things like this anymore. And I feel like back in Raj's day, and maybe a little earlier than Raj's day, this is a bit more commonplace, right? Just before me. Just before you. You caught the tail end of it. got blamed for it, you know, like just kind of, you know, just the reputationally. You know what I mean? They try to play you.

I mean, we could still get physical, but you wouldn't, you didn't see cats getting swung on, like to the degree that that you did in the generation before me when I played. Yeah. How have you seen it evolve? What is, where, where are we at with fighting in the NBA? What are we thinking about here? I mean, you're in the safest era of all time in terms of fighting in the NBA. I mean, you're really in the safest era of all time for the most part as a society.

Ain't no ramifications. Yeah. Like nobody gets, nobody gets checked on the dumb shit. Everybody gets to type and talk like they got a big chest. I mean, am I lying? That's what we live it. That's what the NBA is now. And I don't know what happened.

What happened to the game you loved, Rob? I mean, David Sterling. You know, the malice in the palace happened. And then David Stern and TV revenues happened. And the backlash that was viewership, not at wanting to see, you know, that type of physicality. And we could go into all of that. But that's what happened. So we got to a point where, you know, it's never been safer in the NBA to act like you're tough and not be tough.

When did you, so like you grew up in the era and came of age in the era, like Oakley was in the league, right? Stephen Jackson was just coming into the league, right? You had Ron Artec. You had motherfuckers that, like, you just didn't fuck around with, right? And now, like, I think for good reason, like, you'd really, to be fair, like, you really don't want fighting in the league like this. You don't want to see that. So, like, on one hand, this is a good thing, right?

And on the other hand, it just feels like there's more manufactured toughness in this league, or at least people, you know, think they tough. of that than they are. What is the, what was the difference when you were like going up against like an oak or something like, or, or in the air that you were coming up in every single day where there was the threat of like some, you know,

some shit could pop off if you don't come on with your peas and Q. Versus this generation that you're seen from afar where it's like, it is a bit more, it's a bit more safer, you know, it's a bit more family friendly than it was maybe in, at some points of the 90s. I mean, I don't know.

I mean, the difference is just that. Like, the difference is Charles Oakley will fight you. Like, you might have to, you might, Derek Coleman, I watched Derek Coleman after a game in Philadelphia. I'm not going to say who it was against or who he did this to, but I watched Derek Coleman, D.C. had a locker right next to mine. I watched Derek Coleman come into the huddle, one, two, three, like, whatever we were saying at the time, go to his locker and sit down. and there's normally a ritual. I mean, you've been in the locker rooms, you sit down, you take a minute,

you start to take yourself off, you're going to the shower. Derek Coleman started dressing over his uniform. I'm like, what is he doing? So he dresses and leaves the locker room. I go through my post game, come out, leave the arena, and D.C. is waiting at the other team's locker room

for someone to come out because they won't let him in. this person refuses to come out. Wow. It was a standoff. So that that's the difference. Like you had to see Derek Coleman at some point or what a white tee over,

with a white tee over his over his six uniform. This was straight Valor suit, bro. Back when they were big, flowy Valor suits. Valor suit over a time. What a time. I watched Charles Oakley walk up to

somebody, I won't say any names, at a jump ball circle while this person has already claimed the spot that he wants at the jump ball circle. And Charles Oakley walk up to him, stand over him and not say shit, but just look at him and I watch this dude move. Now, I don't know what the basis of that was, the backstory. I just got to this team. But clearly there had been some sort of exchange that made it very clear to said individual to Charles Oakley was not fucking around. So that's what you dealt with in the league. They were cast that would really put their hands on you. Like I've told this story before.

When me and Ron Ortiz got into it, I mean, you know, I'm in the back leaving the arena, ready to go with like plans as to how this is going to play out when I see him in this walk out because I don't know what he's capable of and I'm not about to go down like that. Yeah. Jerry Stackhouse, another one. like Jerry Stackhouse with two piece you in a heartbeat as a matter of fact

I'm pretty sure he caught my young kid Kirk, Kirk Snyder was his name played for the Utah Jazz I wasn't on the trip but by accounts that were relayed to me like I think he might have touched him up after a Mavericks game

in the back of the arena like that's what you had to worry about on broad scale from the bullies of the NBA at that time you just don't have them roaming the locker rooms in the way that you did It's just kind of been cut out of it. So, you know, you had to be way more selective about how you ran your mouth, how you, how you, how you fouled people.

Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Just in general, how you acted because there were people that would correct those, they would correct that. I'm assuming that the Derek Coleman thing happened in Philly, right? So I'm just thinking about, like, I just got, I just came back from there. And how long that hallway is until you got to go to the bus. It ain't like in Philly It's a good

80 feet from the locker room to the bus And you're going to have to see somebody And I'm just thinking about this man This OG with his With his velour on pro Also probably got a fit off because that Sixth's jersey Was fire back then And it was tough jersey

It was a tight It was icy white It was icy white You put the whatever maybe the blue Red velour over that So like he got a fit off And he's about to kick you and then there's no avoiding it because that hallway is so small, bro.

That hallway is so small. So small. There's one way in, one way out. It's a long walk. This wasn't young D.C. like with Syracuse and New Jersey, where he was spelt and trim and, like, super athletic. This was big bone D.C. towards the end of his career. So that's a lot of person. And there's not a security guard in the building that could stop him from getting off what he wants to get off.

So if you come out of that locker room and you don't have a real good answer for what you did and why you did it and an apology that supports it. He didn't come out of the locker room, though. So we, so it was, he wouldn't come out. Wait, you know what? What I heard, what I did see, though, not heard. There's also actually, there is another exit out of the visitor's locker room. There's a back exit that I just realized. There is a back exit.

There's two, there's two entrances because there's one to the court. there's two interests of the court. There's one in the back. And then there's one that's going towards the bus at Wells Fargo Center now. Wow. That's crazy. That's wild. Look, like basketball, sports in general, right?

Like, they're just, it's competition, man. Like, you're going to have boil over from the time you start playing the game to when you finish playing the game if you're really competing at it, right? And while I don't condone fighting it, I don't think it should have been left in the game and stuff like that. Some of it is organic. And reaching a boiling point, you know,

and guys getting chest to chest and someone crossing a line that happens from time to time. You just don't have nearly as many people who grew up, you know, kind of in the, yeah,

you just don't. And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with it. But if in that world, you run up on someone who is old school like that and you've never run across that species of person before,

I mean, you could potentially get run up on, not see it coming and get popped. Yeah. I just, we just, we don't, we don't have that anymore. We just don't have that anymore. And I'm, I just think about like the competitive edge and what you have to do to be on your peas and choose when that is in the league versus when that is not in the league. Because when it's

not in the league, there's a lot of popping off of the amount, a lot of, a lot of name calling without repercussions. It's just, it's, people says a while, y'all say some wild shit in general. There's no regulation to the wild shit, y'all say. And I feel like back in your day, there was at least there was some people that was like, I don't get like Derek Coleman, I don't think he gives a fuck about the fine. Charles Oakley does not care about the fine. Like run it. Like it's the principal. It was a lot of principalities of the situation back in your day. Roger. Look, there were, I mean, there was, there were dudes that, I mean, you knew who was, who was faking and, and who really, how do you say live those raps? Like, who, who didn't care

about getting the fines? Like, everybody kind of knows. Like, I, you know, there are people out there right now that, that, that would go down to the layman as living their wraps. My fuck, I know you wasn't living in raps. You know how I know? Because I checked it. I had to find out. You know how I found out? Because Derek Komen had you in the fucking locker room.

Yeah. Yeah. Or, like, I check you myself. Like, let's find out. Let's see. I'm a run up and, and blast as hard as I can. And let's, let's see what. That's why I always tell the story about LeBron.

Like for everything that, you know, LeBron done fighting shit like that. But when LeBron and I got like when he first came into the league, you know, we used to check young fellas just to see what they were built. Like, let's see what you got. And I ran up. I told this story before.

And I blasted him as hard as I could with a, with an elbow as I ran. This is when we were still running like crossers underneath the basket and like floppy action. So I got a run and start. Because I'm passing him. I just wang right in his chest. And he looked at me unfazed and just kind of like,

chuckled and I say, okay. Like, okay, I got, that's not going to work with you. I love that story. I love that story. Because he's 18 years old and you was really trying to jeeched LeBron. He was like, hey, okay. I'm 260, bro. He was not fazed by that at all.

Like 2% body fat, dog, watch out. But like, look, J.R. Smith, another one. Like, J.R. Smith and I got into that. And, and I don't know if I didn't really believe it. or not, but, like, I had kind of forgot and I put myself in a vulnerable spot going up. That boy tried to ruin my life. Darry Smith did?

Yeah, but... Did y'all have a chuckle over that after that? I'm sure y'all did. I'm sure. We did, but that's mutual respect, though, right? Like, okay. He's from Jersey, right? Yeah, I got it.

He doesn't seem like he's a guy that fucks around. Yeah, he doesn't see like... We got it. So we understand each other. We're good. Zibo, like, that was a... That was a bully. man. Like he was,

there were, there were some dudes out there that, that, that, you know, I put Zibo in the class of, of D.C. and Charles Oakley and.

Zibo said that, that he, um, he bullies, bullies. That was what, that was his saying. That's what he said.

I had to have my spine check. After Zip? Yeah, I had to have my neck and spine check. At the motor center or whatever it was called. Oh, oh yeah, back in the day.

It was a rose garden. Back in the day. It was. It was just a little too late in the ass for those dudes. Like I mean, I'm running around at 6-5-205. But you had heart, though. I've heard stories about you, Roger. I've heard stories that you don't, that you never back down from a fade is everything.

There's all the stories that I hear. It always ends with Roger did not back down from the fade. I prided myself on that. And I like, like, I didn't care about a fine either in that way. But there are some people that you're just out of your weight class with. So we had got into some shit and he caught me like, running, chasing, which, because I was always vulnerable. I'd be chasing somebody.

And his big ass, like, came out of nowhere and just kind of illegal screen shouldered me. And it put me right into the front row. I was near the sideline. It put me right into the front row. And I just felt my whole spine just go, kak, gack, and I was like, oh, I promise you. I had to be, they had to take me in the back and x-rayed my whole shit. God damn. But you knew, like, you, they're, they're, they're,

Guys like that existed. When you went to their place, you knew, hey, bro, don't act crazy in here because crazy might catch up to you. It just doesn't exist. This isn't like an old curmudgeony pot. I don't even care. But you asked me, like, what the difference is? That's the difference.

I'm going to be honest with you, bro, just to bring it back to Isaiah Stewart. I don't know Isaiah Stewart, but I do know this. Every time I've seen him, I've seen a couple of highlights of him, or maybe like three or four highlights of him. And two of them things is him fighting and him being ready for. all the smoke. Like he does seem like he's cut from that old school cloth. Like you don't fuck around. He's from Rochester. You don't fuck around

with Isaiah Stewart. I think that's, that should be common knowledge at this point. Should be heated. If you don't, if you don't act accordingly. Like if you aren't, if you ain't ready to do what he wants to do, then you probably need to leave him alone. And I think, okay, this isn't our pod, but that's a good

that's a good thing. I tell my boys this shit all the time. Hey, look, man. There's nothing wrong with a healthy fear. There's nothing. wrong with that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying, look, I don't fight. I don't like to fight or I know that person can beat me, whatever. And in the next breath, I'll tell them, hey, there are times where you

might have to take an asswop it. You just might have to. Yeah, you just might have to tell him, like, hey, he's going to have to beat you, bro. Like, that's life. But it's something to be said for knowing and just being like, you know what? I'm going to leave that alone. I, at a young age, I realize, I mean, not realized, but I could sniff out

someone that just love the fight. And I was like, I'm gonna stay away from him for them, you know? Like, there's just people in this world that's like to do that shit. They just like to. You know, it's a sport for them. Listen, you see a motherfucker at the bar with a cauliflower ear? Like, leave him alone.

Leave him alone. Leave that motherfucker alone, bro. Don't even. You got to make eye contact. You know, no, no, they're good. We're good. Shit like that. Make business decisions. But we live in a world where like, especially basketball. Basketball is different, like because football full contact, like, even though they're stripping a little bit out.

But you could, you know, you're taking your safety into your own hands by talking reckless and doing reckless shit and taking cheap shots and stuff like that. But basketball is always, even when we played a little bit, like after that era of guy left, right? I will always say that there were dudes who fall into the category of thinking just because they've got this huge persona on their basketball court or they might be like they mistake that for real life. That's not real life. That's not real life, bro.

Like real life is when these lights and cameras go off and I see you in the hallway. That's real life. This is not real life. Don't get that twisted. I just, there's a thing though just be said about athletes. basketball players obviously are in this category.

But like athletes can't turn it off. Like they sometimes they got to get it turned off for them. If you get what if you did what I'm saying. Like where it's like even just in real life like there's been so many like times where there's been like an athlete or there's been somebody close to the adjacent just like pop off. And they don't, I'm like there's a lot of like who fuck do you think you're talking to? You know what I mean?

Like there's a lot of that there. There's like a what? What? You can't bring it on breakfast? as Cat Oyers would say, there's a lot of that going on in athletics. Whereas it's like, are you, are you sure? This is bigger picture. But in a lot of instances, like that guy who comes from, let's say, a place where, like,

you might think handling yourself comes with the territory, a lot of times that star athlete might be protected from some of that shit. So, you know, you might not have to handle your own in that way because, you know, you were, you weren't, you were the golden child to begin with. You know what I mean? So, like, there are a lot of dynamics that go into that. But the one I'm talking about ain't that. The one I'm talking about is that while it is basketball, it's also entertainment.

And if you get to a point where you forget that this is, this is entertainment and that the basketball is just that, you start to feel the way about yourself that that's unsafe. I've seen a lot of dudes fall into that category, not just with me, but with other people. Like, hey, man, you just, you forgot what that. You forgot that even though you were better than that cat you were talking to on the court, that he just didn't give a fuck. A lot of dips on the chips. A lot of dips on the chips. A lot of dip on your chip.

When did you start to see a change in it, though? When did David Stern be like, uh-uh, nope, we ain't doing it. I mean, I know the malice in the palace was a crescendo, but I'm sure there were times. Like, David Stern came into inherited a league that were Kurt Ray. Travis can get closed line and then, you know, we go all the way from for 30 years and then we're not doing that. We just don't see that anymore. When did it change? I mean, I think it was gradual, but by the time, you know, by the time, let's see, I had that situation with Kobe, for instance, I only got one game for that. I only got one game. That's wild. Today's NBA,

you know, I don't know. You might have to check out for the series if you did that today. Yeah, I mean, I'm thinking at least four or five games, something like that. So, you know, there was a gradual progression to kind of keep it family-friendly. And again, I understand, like, you're selling to families and corporations and all that kind of stuff. But they've gotten a lot of it, you know, out of the game. But, you know, I think the pendulum has swung in a way, I've said this before. It's swung overboard now. Like, it's swung too far to the other side.

You know, our flagrant's and flagrant, like, you know, flagrant won just because you hit somebody in the head. Even if it was inadvertent, even if it's inadvertent, like, everyone knows that you didn't mean to do it. You still, like, Flavent. Did you see last night, did you see Mason Plumley and Pods, Warriors? Did you see the, did you see the, uh, I did you see? Did you see pods? I know you probably listened to this. I saw you, that, that was a flop.

We saw it. We saw it. That was a great, it was a great, great sell of a call. Amazing cell. Veteran move. Veteran move. And that's perfect. Because that's exactly where I was going.

next is like because players know that they can get a competitive advantage by getting either extra free throws or getting someone kicked out of a game. These dudes are flopping. I've said this before. There's a difference between flopping to get a personal foul called on someone. Like two guys coming together and you flopping that I fouled you defensively, me flopping that I took the charge, right? There's a difference between that and trying to sell to a ref that you lost your eye and said players should be ejected from the game. Those are two completely different things. And I see it a lot. LeBron does the shit. I love

LeBron. I couldn't be more effusive than my praves for LeBron. But like, are you serious? Bro, go look back. I think there was a Bulls heat game. I don't know if you remember this, Roger. If this is on TikTok, put the little clip. Keith, hold me down, please.

Is they're playing against Chicago in the heat? I think Nazir Mohammed, did you? I don't know if you play with Nazir Mohammed. I'm right. Man, Nazi used to play a lot of golf together. His son, Sir, Muhammad, a bad boy, by the way. Top, top. I think maybe 100 kid in the country right now, basketball is tough, tough.

Michelle, shout out. But Nazir Muhammad probably got, like, LeBron with, like, a quick, like, forearm or something to shiver. And LeBron sold the shit out of that, bro. Like, LeBron, all of 280 pounds, the person that looked at you, like, and laughed at 18 years old because you gave him a weak-ass forearm in his eyes, right?

He gave a weak-ass forearm, right? This fucker, LeBron. falls down and it looked like somebody shot him from the rafters just, just got the call. Got the call, though. I mean, again, if you get, if you're getting a call, this is just me. I mean, you can agree, you don't have to agree.

Ultimately, I don't give a rip. But there's a difference between selling and getting that call, even if it looks obnoxious. If you got the two free throws and you sold the call fine. But if you're selling and the effect is in an effort to get someone a flagrant to or get them kicked out of the game, that's different for me. I draw a line. Like, there's a code to some of this shit. Like, I was never out there faking like someone punched me in the nuts when they didn't.

Like, do you know what I mean? Like, that's going to get someone in a lot of trouble. I'm not trying to get you in trouble. I am trying to get these free throws. Yeah. But what was a line that you would draw when you were flopping? Because I know you I know you've sold a few calls in your day, Rock. Look, even the file I told you about J.R. Smith, which was a really physical in the air.

Like, he tried to fuck me up foul. I'm not over there writhing in pain acting like, like I need a backiotomy. What? Like, do I mean? Like, yo, get your ass up. Like, I deserved it. It's part of the game. Like we had a back and forth and he took his shot.

That's the way it goes. So the line I drew was just that. Like, I'm not flopping like that to try to get anyone kicked out of a game or in trouble or in any way insinuate that he is playing dirty or trying to hurt me. I'm not doing that. Well, you know what ended up happening with pods, right? After he got Basin Plumlee of Flager 1, which got Tailu, your guy ejected, which was a rare. sight. I was like, wow. Tailu doesn't get ejected. You know what happened after that?

He missed both free throws and it lost the game. Yeah. So, you know, the basketball gods, they were up nine in the fourth quarter and they lost the game. Basketball gods, you know what I mean? Two other two other bullies. Sheed and, uh, and body, bottle, bottle. Sheed, that was my, we should have asked him about, they will do that next time it comes out. We should ask. Ruben Patterson. Those, uh, yeah, Rube, rub was a big physical, like, didn't. Didn't care.

Like they, dudes would, a little crazy. A little bit. Just a little bit. Take me down memory lane with my, with my goon-type players,

man. I appreciate that. Jeff Foster, you remember that big dude? Isn't he from the Bay? Jeff Foster? From the Pacers? Jeff Foster from the Pacers?

I think he's from the Bay. I think he went to Skyline High School. I could be wrong, but, you know. Try to kill you when he foued you. All right. Let's take a quick break.

Advice from Roger. And we are back. Roger. We got an All-Star weekend coming up. I will not be. in the building. I'm not going to pass on a February trip to Indianapolis.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm going to pass on that. But there's a lot of people, you know, descending on Indianapolis, a lot of youngans. Roger, what is your advice to anyone going to All-Star Weekend and does a general ask

specifically for our youngans? Yeah, they got to be Indianapolis is about to be busy, huh? They got an all-star weekend. And then the NFL draft combine is there like later in the month. Yeah, but good for you guys. What my advice be? Pace yourself.

Pace yourself, man. Get a well thought out itinerary of what you want to do. Don't just shoot from the hit. There's so much shit going on and you're going to get pulled in so many directions and you're going to hear last minute about this event and that event. And, you know, they want, I mean, this was my experience. Don't mind you, this was two decades ago. But so it might be a lot cleaner now.

they probably get it, you know, but I would say itinerary. Roger was in the trenches. Roger was in trenches, dog. Taste yourself, man, enjoy it. You know, get a few of those paid appearances to supplement, you know, the weekend. They probably don't need that anymore as much as we did either. So, I mean, that's what my advice would be. Don't get stuck out.

I don't know how Indiana set up for the traffic. A couple of the ones I went through, the traffic was so brutal that you could, you could be in it for hours. just waiting to get to something and never really get there. So, yeah, I don't know, bad advice, good advice, but that's my advice. I just, I've only done one All-Star weekend. And that was just, it was just a lot, bro. It was just a lot going on, you know, like, I'm antisocial.

Your social meter goes down really quickly. Oh, at All-Star. Just so much, just, hey, how you doing? Hey, how you doing? Hey, what are you up to? Hey, I don't care. You know, like, it's just a lot of that that goes on. And I usually try to bounce out Sunday morning, dog.

That's my, that's my M.O. I get in maybe Thursday, do what I got to do. I'm not trying to stay for the game. Just get me out of there, you know? That's my M.O. I could see that. I mean, it takes a lot of your emotional bandwidth, dealing with all of the interactions, I guess,

that you would have to go through on an All-Star weekend. It's busy, man. But I think, aside from yourself, that would be there to cover it in some capacity, if you're going there as like a player, you have to be built for that. That's what you have to be seeking that, right? Like, because as I got older as a player,

we didn't, we didn't go because I was like you. I'm like, y'all, I don't want to do a shit. Like, it's too much. Plus, we didn't have nearly the recovery time on the back end that these guys do now. You used to,

I know what happened in Philly because it was in Philly when you went, right? Like, and you were playing for the sixes at that time. Why did you go as a, I mean, I guess this is a young person thing? Why did you go to the All-Star game when it wasn't in your city.

And what was the, oh, didn't you go? Because you had a three-point contest and you had work in that way? I went twice. Philly was in my city and then in Houston. Oh, got you, got you. So you never just went like, hey, I'm going to just go to All-Star weekend just for the hell of that because, you know, okay. No.

And the next, like, so to my point, the next year, the, like, the Houston one, I was there for two days and then my wife had some complications with, so I had to leave. So I didn't get to participate or hang out the entire weekend. But the next year, they invited me to shoot again, and I declined because I was like, I don't, that's, I'm whooped. You know what I mean? Like at that point in our season, I had, my knee was feeling a little heavy. Like I was getting fluid in my knee and I was trying to rehab some stuff. And it just didn't make sense to be there.

And again, we didn't have the amount of time that they have. We just had the weekend. So you would have to be, you know, you get done playing probably Thursday. You're there Friday. it culminates Sunday and you're back at practice on Monday so you don't know there's no rest so

you know as I got older I don't want to be at that but if you're going to that now and you're going as someone who's not participating in it you're there for all the shits and all that all that comes with it everyone descended on All Star weekend when I played like that time in Philly I mean it was a who's who of

actors, actresses entertainers other athlete like everybody was there Can you tell the people your Philly story? Is that, can we tell? Like, can we tell about your experience? No, you're just Philly, your Philly All-Star experience. Can you tell them about it?

Because from what I know about that, that is what you don't do. And that is what, what did I do? What story did I tell? I don't remember what. You was just mobbing. I just know you was just mobbing. Yeah, we were out there. It was good.

But Philly was one of those cities not set up for the transportation, because it's got all those one-ways. So, like, I think AI might have had, like, I did a couple paid appearances, maybe Friday. I was young. I missed my second year in the NBA dog, so I don't know what, I don't know what's going on. I'm just like, let's get it. So I did a couple paid appearances. I had a girl in D.C. that was, like, doing some publicist work for me.

So it's due to paid appearances, we got some more in our pocket. We're going down to the, I think the Galleria. AI was supposed to have a party at the Galleria Mall. So it was wild. Like all the stores shut the whole thing. All the stores shut. Yeah, but like a party like in the hallways of the gallery of mall. Damn.

It was, it wound up being like, damn, we came to this shit. Because it just, it wasn't a venue that was going to hold. Like it wasn't going to be able to have a vibe. So we got back in the car. It took us a while. We wound up at the NBA players, the MBPAs party, I guess, over by 10. temple. I think, dude, like, it gets kind of cloudy after that, but it was, it was, uh, that was a good time, man, met a lot of people, some people I've only seen on like, like, honestly, like videos and

movies and shit like that. Like, it was a good time. And then, uh, back, back in the limos, people were riding around in limos. So, so you could, you know, you could still be having a good time, even though you were sitting in traffic for an hour and a half. So, yeah, uh, I, I honestly, though I don't remember where we wound up after that. But I can tell you for sure that I went to the dunk competition and all of that stuff. And then I did not go to the game on Sunday because I was just too tired. I was too tired. After Friday and Saturday, I was so beat.

I couldn't even do it. And it lingered into like practice on Monday and Tuesday. Like Larry Brown had to talk to me. Yeah. He was like, hey, man. Like I heard you were at X, Y, and z with x y and z and i looked up like what like how did larry brow just had a finger on the pulse of everything and he he warned me um

in so many words that like i wasn't who i was hanging out with and i should hang out like them so damn you got a real stern talking to how do so i was listening to quest love supreme um one of my favorite podcast and chris rock was telling the story i think i might have said it on this podcast but chris rock was telling the story about how he was like at this party in jersey and kishon johnson was there. And out of nowhere, Bill Belichick says, comes into the party just randomly like, because he was the coach of the judge at the time and was like, motherfucker, you got a game tomorrow. Let's go. Fuck out.

Right. Chris Rock's words, guys. Do not, this is that. Don't blame me. How much of a post does a good coach have on his players in their whereabouts throughout the season? Like, Larry, obviously, he knew your whole shit. He knew exactly what she was doing. Yeah, but.

And knew who you were away. Why are you worried about me? I don't even play. That was my shit. Like, why are you over here fucking with me? I don't even play. I ain't played in 15 games. You over here fucking with me.

I'm sorry. That shit still bothers me, man, because I can still see his ass standing over me while I'm stretching. And they bring your old ass over here, man. He cared about too. Cared about too much. I love LB, me. LB was my guy.

LB was my guy. But anyway, to tell you what kind. They should know. I mean, with the security at their disposal and the amount of connects that an organization has, they'll know what's going on. They should also have a firm grasp, and I think most guys do on who can get away with what.

Like, who can be out to what hour and still produce? Because, like, some dudes can. Some cats can be out doing what they do, enjoying themselves, and come out and just perform. That same person, if you kept him in his room all night and had him order room service and watch a movie, like, he might be shit the next day. So it's good to know where they are and what they're doing,

but it's also good to know who they are and what they need, if that makes sense. I understand. All I keep thinking about right now is I need to know what Larry Brown was like as a coach, because dude's a legend. And I need to, you got these, what's up? What's the best story that exemplifies Larry Brown as a head coach? I always said that Larry Brown loves you when you're not playing for him. Like he loves you.

And he might love you right when he gets you. But there's a shelf life on like Larry Brown's love. There is. I mean, I think you see it over and over again. Like Larry Brown was was a tough. He was a tough. Again,

like I talk about people going into situations and how they affect like the arc of your career and stuff. Philly was great for me in that circumstances wound up being that I was able to play in the finals and off of that get another year in the NBA. Because without that, who knows if I ever make the NBA? Like, honestly, it was a great situation. And they were the first team to give me a real shot. Having said that, where they were as a franchise,

which is like win a championship now because we fell short in the finals, didn't necessarily line up with where I was as a player. In your development. In my development. I was doing that off a straight emotion and adrenaline. So the next year, I went to Summer League and was like MVP of the Summer League. And this was a pretty loaded Summer League. Like, this was Joe Johnson and what is Dee Mace.

They played at Oklahoma State. And like, there were a lot of boys in that. And I got MVP of it and we were really good. And I think the expectations for me, I had a really good preseason too. Because AI was out, Eric Snow was out, Aaron McKee was out. So Speedy Claxton and I played all the minutes in preseason. We look good. And the expectations were just more than I was ready to like to be able to handle.

Do you know what I mean? So for that reason, I think there was some disappointment about that from Larry Brown, quite frankly. And it's not his. fault. This is totally my fault, but the messaging and the interaction with him took its toll on me that year. I wasn't sure whether I could or wanted to play basketball anymore after that. Damn. I really, I just, I wasn't. I wasn't emotionally ready to deal with the ups and downs of that season and the expectation and stuff like that. So, I mean, I joke with people. I'd be like in fucking Spain somewhere warming up and a motherfucker would yell.

something in the gym and it'd be like flashback shell shock i think larry brown was screaming my name be like what like do you know what i mean like you're like paddlos dog like god damn what where's he at and he just had me rattled like that and so it took a lot of like emotional rehab for me not not his fault again but just it didn't it wasn't right for me at that time so i had always said yeah it's what it is like and quite frankly that's what separates some people and allows them to to be either in the league or not in the league, and it's what separates an okay player from a star, sometimes their ability to navigate those things.

So I had always said, honestly, behind closed doors, if there was one person that I'm sure would never, ever trade for me, or never ever want me on their team again, and the feeling was mutual. It would have been Larry Brown. Unequivocally, no questions asked. When those motherfuckers told me I got traded to Charlotte and Larry Brown, I almost passed out.

bro, I almost passed out. I thought it was a joke because I was like, there's no fucking way. It's impossible. And this next- He loves differently. He loved the next time around, this time around with Larry Brown.

It was way different. Like our relationship was different. I was an established player. So, you know, there was enough of a track record to prove to him that I could play,

to prove to myself that despite anything else I could play. And I just wasn't ready to handle that the first time we were together. So we were much better to the second time. He traded my ass immediately as soon as I got hurt. But I got love for Larry Brown. Like he's just anybody who played for him would tell you the same shit.

Like he's a tough old dude. The interesting thing, though, you brought up a good point. It's like about young players and the development or the lack of development that they get when they're immediately thrust it on a championship team for. a championship aspiring team, right? It's basically what you were put into, right? Like, at that point, six is just on their way to the finals and trying to get back.

I don't think people realize just the pressure that is involved in that, and it's really hard for a young player to stick on that type of team for long term. Like, it takes a certain mindset because there's so much pressure, and you're still figuring, you don't even know who you

are yet as a person. So how are you going to, like, try to put yourself into, like, this championship level type? team, you know what I mean? Like, I see that all the time with young guys. It's not, has nothing to do with their ability, more so just the circumstances around them and why they can't develop at the pace that fans think they should develop. Listen, man,

I had never, it's a great point. I had never lived really by myself before. In college, we always had a roommate or a sweetmate. Like, you know what I mean? Like, had our room and we shared apartment. Other than that, I had only lived in the best Western in Yakima, Washington. So, like, you know, like,

Shout out Yacama, Washington. I bought a shirt from there one time. There's housekeeping and shit every day. So this is like, to your point, like, I'm learning how to live on my own. You know, I'm learning, I'm learning a lot of things. Mike Woodson, shout out Woodo. Woodo was my, like, was my player development kind of coach. Like, Mike Woodson would still take me out and bust my ass in one-on-one before the game started, like on the court.

Like, that's where my game was at. Like, where this retired, this retired coach on the staff was still being good one-on-one games, with me. And like, I just wasn't ready to go out there in high pressure stakes NBA games, like with championships on the line and produce. I just wasn't, I wasn't ready for that. Yeah. There'll be breaks. Okay. Let's do this. It's Thursday. We're going to the All-Star break before we do that. It's time for real end of the week. Roz, do you have to pee or anything before we do this? Do you want to go take a bathroom break? I don't need one today. Nope. Thank you for asking. All right. Let's go.

All right, let's go to ruin of the week. I'll let you go first because I don't have one. Who is your row of the week? This one's pretty easy for me. I give it to the whole organization, staff, record label, and as an MFN crew, as you like to say. But specifically,

the figurehead of that on the field would be Patrick Mahomes and the Kansas City Chiefs. Written off earlier in the season, a lot of news shows talking about the decline of his. Had we seen the best of it? Had the league caught on? Obviously, there were issues. Receiving staff, I mean, receiving core and all that.

But, like, you know, they were pretty much written off as not being able to vie for a championship this year. And, I mean, not only did they do it, but they went through Buffalo. They went through Baltimore. And then they played, I heard it referred to as the Niners Invitational by some people, the Super Bowl. So then they beat them in the in the in the in the Super Bowl. So and the way he did it like come coming back again.

What's that three Super Bowls with three double digit comebacks like that's G. Being down 10. Yeah. Yeah. So like you know, shout out real one. The whole Kansas City Chiefs, Andy Reed, Travis, Travis Kelsey, T. Swift. Wow. First USF bull to score a touchdown in in in the Super Bowl.

I believe Marquez Valdez Scantlin like. I mean, Patty Mahos, dog, real one. That's it. That ain't beat the Niners. That's real enough for me. I'm excited for that. I was all in the group chat. I was all in all in my family group chat's like, bang, bang, bang.

Ha ha, ha. I'm going to give mine to a friend of the program. We share a producer, the legendary Kerm. I'm going to give it to Rob Harvella from 60 songs of Define in the 90s. he has a podcast out talking about Hard Not Like by Jay-Z. Really good.

I think you should, I think you should listen to Spy Roger. But anyway, he, in this latest podcast about Jay-Z, who's the East Coast guy, somehow got the Federation, which is a group out of Fairfield,

California, somehow did like name drop the Federation and talked about how E-40 is the greatest rapper of all time. So any man that does that is a real one in my book. Real one of the week, Rob Harvella, 60 songs of Define in 90s. One of my favorite people in this business and in the world. Go tap in on his podcast.

If you haven't already, it's a vibe. So yeah, real one of the week. Rob Arvella, giving it to him. We're here. Boom. We go. All right. A little housekeeping.

No show on Monday from us. It is a three-day weekend. You guys have fun. Don't listen to podcasts. I'll enjoy your life. We'll see you guys. We'll enjoy it and listen to the podcast. I don't know.

Well, listen to the real ones. Some old ones. You know, listen to all real ones. Great with his hits. You know who I saw last night? It was very happy. Wattsisano Anderson, friend of the pot.

I mean, yeah, Juan, I said it was good. I will do that. All right. I don't know why I brought that up, but, you know, real one with the real one. Go listen to the, go listen to the, to the Wantascano Anderson

interview. That was one of the greatest interviews we've ever done. Go listen to that when on your, on your President's Day weekend. All right. Tap in. All the shit. Bye. Must be 21 years and older in President Select states.

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