The Ringer NBA Show - Will Anyone Trade for John Wall? | The Mismatch (Ep. 341)

Episode Date: November 20, 2018

John Wall’s gargantuan contract stifles his trade value (2:27), the Sacramento Kings continue to outperform expectations in the crowded Western Conference (13:56), and the teams on a streak, winning or losing (33:19). Hosts: Chris Vernon, Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. Joining me as he does every Tuesday from the Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k.a. Kevin O'Bomber, A.K.A. Kevin O'C. A.K.A., Kevin O'Connell, A.k.a. Can you hear me? Kevin? My equipment has gone down. We're having to record this podcast like it's the 1980s. Burnow, you're sounding a lot different this week. That's for sure. Hopefully better. Maybe for the people that hate me,

it will disguise my voice enough that they'll think it's somebody different. Who is that? Who is this? I have not used a tin can and a string in a long time, so this is going to be great. Is that what you used when you first got hired down in Memphis, Chris? Is that the way they did it down there? Actually, my first – this is a true story. Years ago, I left a radio station and went to a radio station that told me they were going to start up, right? We started from Ground Zero.

At that point, we had no – I recorded from a trailer in West Memphis. Arkansas that was next to a radio tower. There wasn't even a parking lot. I had to drive into a field and there were horses fornicating outside the window. What? I'm not kidding. Okay. Well, when I asked that question, I was not expecting there to be like a real actual

story in response. Listen, I don't know, I don't know about all this drink cram, but I started from the bottom. Yeah. That's where I started. Unless Drake could tell me he was recording his first album outside a window, And there was horses fornicating outside a window. He ain't got nothing on me.

You should do a rewrite of that song now, Chris. For this week's NBA to stop. Yeah, right. Watch this for a professional segue. You ready? Speaking of the bottom, the Washington Wizards are falling apart. I told you a couple of weeks ago, Ken, that I saw the Wizards in person,

and they port coming out that John Wall yelled at Scott Brooks. and in addition to John Wall yelling at Scott Brooks, Ernie Grunfeld is probably maybe willing to trade literally anybody on the roster. You kind of wrote about this in conjunction with the Pelicans as a team that could make a bold move. But first things first, who would you want on the Wizards? Is it Brad Beale and then who else? Yeah, there's not a lot on the roster that you would want to try. trade a lot for. I think Bradley Beale, obviously, is the number one asset on the Washington

Wizards. Beyond that, I guess it really depends on your feelings on Auto Porter. It depends on how you project John Wall moving forward, but you might even put some of those role players ahead of those guys in terms of players that you would value you to trade for from that team. Look, Washington's in a tough spot, man. I don't really care about the practice stuff. Like, that happens. We talked about this last week in regards to the Warriors. It happens. It's just something that happens. There's just been reported lately with those two teams. But, you know, in terms of the team itself, they do need to make some changes here, whether it's trading one of John Wall or Bradley Bale, or flipping Otto Porter for a number of other pieces. Something needs to change for this team.

It's really just a matter of, I think, what you can get back, because I'm not sure what the value is for John Wall. It's obviously good value for Bradley Bale, and I'm not sure what the value is for Otto Porter either, because he's getting paid quite a lot, too. Okay, let's start with the porter because you mentioned him as a possibility with Pelicans, right? Yeah, I've heard Pelicans have some interest in him. That was prior to that newsbreaking. I would imagine more teams would be interested at this point. Okay, more teams might be interested, but when you were putting together,

if I've got this right, it said Solomon Hill, Julius Randall first rounder. To be clear, like, that's just me putting numbers together, right? Because they would need to add up to around $20 million in order to take on Porter's salary, right? So you need to include over $20 million and how do you get there? Solomon Hill's $12.5 million contract with a number around $8 million. That could be a combination of players, there can be two players or one player, and then maybe a first-round pick. I don't know exactly what it would take, but I do think for a guy like Porter who is a rare two-way player, he's struggling this year. But Porter is good defensively, versatile.

and over the past two and a half years, he's been excellent shooting threes. So I think a guy like that would demand a first-round pick in the deal. Yeah. That trade is horrible. Randall is better than Porter. I disagree.

What? I think we're underrating on a quarter. In what world is Julius Randall not better than Auto Porter? In the world where two-way wings and forwards are tough to find, which is the world we live in. Otto Porter makes $27 million.

Yes. That's, yes. Yes, yes. Okay, if you're factoring in money, if you're looking at this in a vacuum, yes, maybe you would rather have Julius Randall at $9 million. Yeah, maybe you would. However, for the New Orleans Pelicans, their team that's on the playoff bubble with Anthony Davis, Anthony Davis can become a free agent in the year 2020, and you need to improve your team. So he's willing to sign the most expensive, the wealthiest contract extension in league history, five years, $235 million. You need to convince. that guy to stay. And so you need to make additions. I'd rather have Julius Randall at the same price. Yeah, but it's about what you need. And what they need is a Ford.

They need a three. They need a four. Someone who can play defense, who can space the floor, who can hit threes. That's what they need. Julius Randall is a good player and he's been good for them this year.

But Otto Porter, again, like I said, it doesn't even need to be Randall. Like, you can figure out the deal with Wesley Johnson and then plus another contract. but that gets a little bit more complicated. Well, double last night, and Otto Porter's next triple double

will be the first one of his life. Otto Porter's really struggled this year. He's been benched in a lot of fourth quarters behind Jeff Green and behind Kelly Ubrey. He just hasn't been good this year. And maybe, to your point, Chris, to your point, maybe you don't need to give up a Julius Randall. Maybe you instead give up

Solomon Hill, Wesley Johnson, and then a salary filler. Maybe that's what gets done. I wouldn't give up. I wouldn't even give up a first round picking a deal to get Auto Porter. Not for $27 million. I think his contract stinks. I wouldn't feel good about it either.

I'm just saying maybe you probably do have to give at least one thing of value up in the trade if you're giving Solomon Hill's contract. It would be another thing if Solomon Hill were an expiring deal. Put it this way. It's really hard to figure out the value

of some of these Wizards players. I think if we talked about Auto Porter this summer, the conversation would have been a little bit different. I'm still not a huge fan of him, but there's no denying. is two-way ability. And the poison pill is really wall. There is denying it, by the way.

I mean, if you want to have a conversation about defense, we can. But, I mean, what he's doing offensively is, I mean, that's less than replacement level at this point right now. Right now it is. We can make every excuse in the world for him, but the guy stinks so far. Wall is the poison pill. 38 million, 41,000, 44,000, 47 million in the last year. year. I honestly think if it's not Phoenix,

who has desperately just wanted somebody, I do wonder if there is another suitor for him. I could see Phoenix throwing together some of their young pieces that may not all fit together and Ryan Anderson's contract and a couple other things and may being able to attain wall. Because like you say, they always get meetings, but they never get players. You know, this would be a way for, yes, he's overpriced. but it would be a way to attain one of the better players in the league.

Even if he is, like I say, on a bad deal, you know, and you're trying to win. I don't know. What do you think? I wouldn't trade for John Wall if I were the Phoenix Suns. I think you have a solid young roster. You're about to have another high draft pick and cap space coming up. Make your team appealing. And then you can go out and get the guy that actually helps your team win.

if I'm the Phoenix Suns, I would not trade for John Wall. I think if I were the Pelicans, again, within the context of what I just said, you need to convince Anthony Davis to sign that five-year max deal. You need to convince him to stay around. You need him to feel that there's hope and a chance to win. If you're the Pelicans, on the other hand, maybe you trade for John Wall because of his diminished value. And the fact, you know what? Maybe an Alvin Gentry system.

Fast. You know, a lot of transition offense. John Wall loves playing in transition. he's never played with a player as great as Anthony Davis. Maybe that could work out. But if I were the Phoenix Suns, no, I wouldn't, but Pelicans, I'd think about it. Speaking of Wall, based on the current estimates, three players in the league will make more than him in 2019, 2020, if I have this right. Hardin will make the same because it's the same Supermax.

The other three players are Steph Curry, Chris Paul, and Russell Westbrook. So, I mean, he has paid like a megastar. But he's not. I don't know. There's only three players in the whole damn league that are going to get paid more money than him. So that's it. I mean, I don't know how you find a deal for him. So what ends up happening with the Wizards? How does this come to a head, Kev? I don't know, man. I think Washington makes one move.

Honestly, I'm almost more intrigued from like the New Orleans angle because I think they have to take a risk somewhere. And I would love for them to get a Bradley Beale. I think he fits perfectly next to Drew Holiday. I just don't think they have the assets to get that done. I think if Washington were to deal Beale, they would get a pretty good return. But I'm not sure if you're Washington, you even want to do that. Beal's only 25.

He's a guy to build around. I think the priority needs to be figuring out what you can get for John Wall. And maybe New Orleans just makes sense to take that ultimate risk with the hopes of keeping Anthony Davis. Well, and then if Davis even does fly the coop, at least you still got a draw. you know what I mean Unless like It actually makes more sense to trade AD Than have John Wall

Without AD Well no I mean at least he's still a player on your roster And I have anything else worth going to the games to see John Wall and an All-Star I know And that's part of the equation too right You talk about Beal and what a good fit he would be there

I saw Bobby Marks tweeting this earlier You know the irony In all of this Is you know who would be perfect with New Orleans right now and Anthony Davis, Buddy Healed. Oh, perfect. I know, right?

I mean, they made the Cousins deal. Heald would have been, that was the theory when they drafted Buddy Heald, is that it would be a perfect outside compliment to Davis. And now seeing as Buddy Heald has taken a massive leap in year three, there's no doubt about that. He really would. He'd be perfect with Davis.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, that Cousin's deal was a risk. worth taking. But yeah, buddy now in year three, he's developed quite nicely. And like you said, Chris, this is exactly how New Orleans would have imagined it to be. It just didn't work out. It's unfortunate. Let me tell you this. Last

Friday, the Pelicans were in town to play against the Grizzlies, and they canceled their shoot-around before the game in the morning. So they weren't going to have a shoot-around, right? And somebody from the Grizzlies was downstairs, and they were working out, just out

on the court, and they said, Buddy Healed was there without team for over an hour and a half, just working out by himself. That's why I love Buddy in the draft, right? Everything I heard about him was his work ethic, and that no matter what he would turn into as a player, you knew he would maximize it. Like, whatever his potential was, you know he would get there. And he's on his way. Well, and I love stories like that, right?

Yeah. There's a guy, you know, they canceled shoot around. There's nobody else there. He's out there by himself for an hour and a half or more. just practicing. And it's obviously played dividends. He's made a big third-year leap. You know, some guys, it's the third year.

You know, we talk about the second-year leap so much. Sometimes it's the third year. There's other guys. You know, Sabonis has done it too. Who else would be third-year? Lavert, he was doing it before he had the injury. You know, so sometimes it's the third-year leap that guy's making. Golly, he'd be perfect with New Orleans right now.

Anyway, let's move on. to, interestingly enough, but he yields team. Things have been going so well for the Sacramento Kings, and then the story leaks about Dave Yeager. Now, since they have said that everything's

okay with Dave Yeager, of course, Lottie DeVock has given him the vote of confidence, not once but twice already, but the gist of the story was that there was an argument over player development. And it really, the crux of it is that they start Bealeita and that Marvin Bagley is not playing as many minutes as,

I guess some people in the front office would want him to. I cannot help that this is just a massive reflection of how well everybody else in the top five is doing, you know, because they're getting minutes, right? So Aiton and Jaron Jackson and Donchich and Trey Young, they're putting up big numbers and they're playing big minutes. and Bagley is not playing big minutes. And so I suppose it is Brandon Williams. It seems as responsible as the member of the front office for the Bagley stuff. And so the idea would be, hey, if my guy were playing big minutes,

he'd be putting up numbers like these other guys, and I don't want to look like an idiot here. And so that's the kind of stuff that happens in front offices all the time. What does not happen is that kind of conversation getting lost? leak to the public, which is that's the catastrophe of all of it. Because things have been going so well for Sacramento. Absolutely, right? Like, if it weren't for that story, right?

If it weren't for that, you'd be looking at this team like, oh, my goodness, Sacramento Kings are 9 and 8. Dearn Fox. Is he a candidate for most improved player of the year? I mean, the way he's improved this season has been remarkable. Even in last night's game, Chris, Kings beat the Thunder who have been really hot, 117 to 113. It was Fox's first game in the year where he couldn't buy a bucket at it.

all. But he still made a positive overall impact with his passing. And he had some just spectacular passes down the stretch of that game, creating shots for his teammates. He was truly amazing. I know Marvin Bagley also had an impressive game. He's been pretty solid as of late for the Kings. So things are moving in a positive direction for Sacramento, and yet there's still little hiccups. Yeah. I know whoever it was in their front office that has been promoting Bagley last night was able to say, see, see what else? happens. He gets a block on Adams. He has a monster game and it's like, see, you just put him

out there. And in fairness, he's better than Bealita. He just is. He is. Did you see the play he had last night where he blocked a shot and then he took the ball in transition, made a pass, eventually got the ball back and dunked it in? There's just a nice little, that's Marvin

Bagley. That's what you got him for. It's for that ability to block shots, then take the ball and transition himself and then finish for that athleticism. He showed a lot of his skill in one single sequence. Well, and I got to see Donchich in person last night for the first time, and he is super impressive to see him person. I missed his first six shots of the game.

It was not his best game, though I believe it was his first double-double of the entire year. A couple things stood out. Number one, he has the ball. Like almost every offensive set feels like they run through him. because you know Smith is not exactly a run-the-team type of guy. And in the absence of JJ Berea, they were playing Jalen Brunson big minutes last night. But the other thing about Donchich is he is bigger, I think, in person than I necessarily thought, watching him on television. And the other thing is I watch him and I see, you know, it's hard to say a fully formed player as a rookie.

but there's a lot of guys that you see that are young. You know, you'll see a Jonathan Isaac come in or like I'm seeing Sharon Jackson all the time or whoever new go, my God, what are those guys going to be in two to three years? Like, Donjic is already, like I don't know how high the ceiling is, and I don't mean this as a demerit.

I mean, he's already like a professional basketball player who, yeah, he's going to figure out more about the NBA, but like, he's already awesome. He really is. He's already awesome. And I wonder how much better he's going to get from here. I know that sounds crazy with the 19-year-old, but some guys just mature really fast. And I wonder if his leap was taken already a couple of years ago. We just missed it because it was overseas.

You know, it's like that great civil conversation we had back around draft season. We talked about how Luca Donchard has been playing professional basketball for years, how he won MVP and led his team to a championship overseas because he's been playing professional basketball for years now. So yeah, Luca is naturally a little bit ahead of the curve than other young players who have been playing against Pipsqueak high schoolers and college players. Luca Donchitz has been playing against men

and it's been an easier transition for him for that reason. But also it reminds you of a college senior sometimes, right? Where you see them like Malcolm Brogden was already good when he got to the NBA. And Torrine Prince, right, as a rookie, he's getting playoff minutes for that Hawks team. He's already good. Like, I mean, they're already grown up,

it feels like, when they get to the NBA. And so you wonder what their ceiling necessarily is. His ceiling is really high, Chris. It's way higher than that. I mean, I don't know. I really don't. I don't know what the ceiling is. But, I mean, this is not to say, right?

This is not to say that there was anything but an amazing move that the Mavericks made. And I'm a huge fan of this. I mean, for goodness sake, he was in my nine players that won't suck. And I feel great about that. He ain't going to suck. I promise. It was already awesome. I think the ceiling for him, I mean, you mentioned how he touches the ball a lot.

And that's true. He averages more front court touches than any other rookie in the league. He averages less time of possession only. only than Trey Young and Colin Sexton. So he's touching the ball a lot. I think he can handle it even more, man. I'd like to see even more offense run through him. Only 4.1 assist per game for Luca.

I think his playmaking ability is potentially transcendent. I think he can be one of the game's top playmakers. And right now he's in a situation sharing the ball. I'd like to see him dominated it even a little bit more. I think he's capable of playmaking at an even higher level than he already has so far. And his scoring should only get better over time. Right now, you know, he's obviously. wowed everybody with that stepback jumper.

He had that play last week against Rudy Gobert where he offensive rebounded it and he faked it twice to create space for the layup. That's why with Luca, I was never overly concerned about the quote-unquote lack of athleticism, which was always overblown. But because he is such a quirky little player who has all these little fakes and his footwork is unbelievable, his ability to stop and go. All of that's already at a high level for him at 19.

And over time, as he develops more and more moves, he's going to get even better. As he gets stronger, he's going to get even better. As he gets in better basketball shape, going to get even better. Everything about Luke is going to improve over time. He's unbelievable. He's not a great athlete, Kev. He's not a great athlete, but he's a good athlete.

You don't need to be a great athlete. He got his lunch money taken by Kyle Anderson with the game on the line. I know that. And Kyle Anderson is, he's slower than you. Kyle Anderson is one of the best nicknames in sports. There's no doubt about it. Hey, listen, and I'm giving Luca and the Mavs even a pass. I mean, they're playing against the best team in the Western Conference.

What are you going to do? Let's go! Let's go! Go, Grizzlies! Act like I'm not living this up while I can. Hey, man. Well, how long is it going to go? Is it going to go through the rest of the week?

Is it going to go to the new year? The defense is real. That's real. It has worked out exactly like they wanted it. it to, which is in a league where everybody is trying to fly up and down and match scoring, they've just decided we're going to be the team that plays you in the 90s. And everybody is made wildly uncomfortable in one-off games. They just are.

I mean, I'm seeing it. And it's frustrating. It's frustrating when a team takes all 24 seconds to use a shot clock. It's frustrating when they beat you back on defense and set up their defense. And what's the most frustrating is Mark Gassol and Jaron Jackson standing. in front of the basket. There's nowhere to go. I mean, Jackson is a frigging condor.

And so there's just nowhere, you know, a league in real plus-minus and is playing like the Mark Gassau that won defensive player of the year and was a NBA All-Star. So I'm living it up while I can't, Kev. Get on board. I'm on board. Their defense is definitely for real, and it's the right decision. It's the right decision to play slow this season,

according to impredictable.com, their average possession time on offensive 16.1 seconds, which is last in the league right behind the Spurs who log at 15.3. So quite a big difference between 29 and 30th with Memphis. So they're making the right call to slow the game down, play at a slower pace, minimize the amount of possessions. I had a conversation with an executive before the season about, or actually I think it was during preseason or beginning of the season. and one of the two.

I had a conversation with the executive about the faster pace and he's like, with more possessions, there's a higher chance that the better team wins games, right? Because there's more possessions for them to prove themselves as the better team.

For Memphis, by minimizing possessions, I think they're maximizing on their defensive ability and they're minimizing the risk over time of a superior offensive opponent, being able to prove themselves with more possessions.

If that makes any sense, I feel like I'm explaining that's very, poorly. No, you're explaining it very well. Listen, this is exactly my theory with the Warriors and the Rockets or whoever they were playing last year, right? The more possessions, the more time they have to expose that they've got the better talent. That's the way it is. You know what mean? Like the more possessions you play, the more times they're going to be able to get where they want to. And that's exactly what they want is to run up and down. So you keep those possessions

low and these teams, they do get frustrated. They get frustrated. It's not as fun having to play a you run a play, we run a play type basketball game. It's a lot more fun to score 128, right, and race up and down the court and get to the basket whenever you want to and make a lot of uncontested layups. And when you run up a team that's not going to let you have that. And I think people are being reminded. Mike Conley and Marcosal are two of the best players in the NBA. They just all are. and people forgot.

And now that they're both healthy. I have some bad news, though, Chris. If the Clippers or Blazers win tonight, the Grizzlies will no longer have the number one record in the Western Conference. I'm sorry, so it could only last one day. You know what's really funny is you look at the Western Conference. What is it like a two-game difference between like first and eight? I think right now, I think the Lakers are in eighth.

Is it two games? Yeah, and I think it's only four and a half games between one and 14. Whereas in the east, it's like, there's like nine good teams, and that's it. I know it. Whereas the Western Conference, I mean, I don't think you're going to, Golden State will hit a run and they'll pull away from everybody, especially after they get Curry back. And after that, I do think you could have a scenario just like last years where parity reigns supreme and you're talking a one or two game flip is going to change your seed.

I mean, you remember last year we got to the end and Minnesota's playing Denver in the last game to see who gets the playoffs and Portland was the three seed last year. I mean, it's going to be a one or two game margin between these teams all bunched up probably from three all the way through 12 maybe. Seriously.

This is why I hate these conferences. It's like Memphis is more east than Chicago and Milwaukee. New Orleans is an eastern team. Like if you're talking about straight up location, these teams are on the East Coast. I mean, at least towards the closer to the East and they are the West. I just wish conferences could be eliminated. And we could have the true 16 best teams in the playoffs instead of some of these good teams getting shorted in favor of these crap Eastern Conference teams that really have no business being in the playoffs. The logo Jerry West once tried to petition that to happen when he was president of the Chris.

tried to get a move to the Eastern Conference. And he's on the basketball, for goodness sake. And he couldn't get it done, so he can forget about that. And New Orleans used to be in the East. Then I went to the West. This is when he was General Manager. They won 50 friggin games, and they were the eight-seed. One of those years in the early 2000s.

Can you imagine if New Orleans were in the East now? Like, the conversation about Anthony Davis and the Pelicans, they're like, oh, can they make the finals? Instead of the West, it's, can they make the playoffs? I know. Bananas. Kemba Walker is on absolute fire. Now, here's a guy that's in a contract year.

We've seen him drop over 100 points in the last two games. And he has something very interesting he's playing for. And that's something interesting, Kevin, is $221 million dollars. If Kemper Walker makes... an all NBA first, second, or third team, he's eligible for that Supermax, which is 221. He's been playing on a four-year, $48 million deal, which has been an amazing deal for Charlotte for certain. He's been one of the great bargains in the league. But what happens now going forward with Kemba Walker, I think we thought that maybe he was a possible, you know,

movement candidate, even though he is expressed, he wants to stay in Charlotte. He is killing it and the price of Kemba Walker seemingly goes up every single week in terms of what he'll be able to net in the offseason. I'll tell you what about Kemba. I think right now at 29.6 points per game, that's probably not sustainable with his efficiency, 60.6 true suitoring percentage. But if that dips even just a little bit, I still think he's going to put up like 27. Points per game.

I still think it's going to be a career best season for Kemba Walker entering free agency. And I do think that could be good enough if Charlotte continues playing fairly well for him to be an all-NBA candidate. And then that makes for a very, very, very interesting discussion entering the summer. Because Kemma's going to want that money you would think, right? I wonder if Charlotte would haggle, though, because I still wouldn't feel great about giving Kemba that contract as much as I like him. he'll be 29 next season five year max contract that price

I'm not quite sure he's worth that I wonder if that's what would lead him to potentially leaving where it's like really it's not going to pay me I'll go elsewhere but that could be a petty move as well ultimately I think Kemba stays in Charlotte but that potential all NBA candidacy leading to that full five year supermax

is an interesting wrinkle in the conversation well he's prison one of the best guards in the intense entire NBA. And when you're dangling that cared out there, if you make an all NBA for a second or third team, you're eligible for that super, I mean, I just don't think that we,

he would be eligible for a Supermax. Fifth of the season, there's no question. He's, you know, all NBA team. Oh, yeah, no question about it. And that could change over time. His scoring efficiency will drop at some point, but he's still putting up a higher volume of shots, 21.6 field goal attempts per game.

If he maintains that career high, getting over 20 shots per game. He's going to put up around 27, 28 points, just not 30. All right, we're going to take a quick break when we come back. We'll talk about the team that has been hottest since we last spoke and also the team that has really cooled off back after these words. This episode of the mismatch is brought to you by Hotel Tonight. Here's a little insider travel secret from our friends at Hotel Tonight.

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I think it does come down to defense. Hamidu Dialo has been really, really nice for them, putting him into the starting lineup for Oklahoma City. Last night against Sacramento, granted it was a loss. It was one of his better overall games on the offensive end, too. Seven for seven for 18 points. He's done a nice job filling in for Andre Robertson, who was critical to their defense the past few seasons.

Jeremy Grant as well, played quite well. They're getting two-way contributions from a number of different guys. I think that's obviously important for them. But it's like you said, Chris, comes down to the start. Russell Westbrook and Paul George have been playing incredibly well until really last night where George sputtered against Sacramento Kings. Yeah, and so then they are the hottest team. The coldest team, it's been Denver.

They have taken a massive step backwards. They were the talk of the town. They were second in the west. But they're one in six in their last seven games, and that one win is Atlanta. So at the beginning of the season, it was the M.O. on Denver is that they have not been a good defensive team. And Mike Malone said, well, if you keep doing the same thing over and over again, that's the

definition of insanity. So now we are going to be committed to the defensive end. But as of late, it feels like they're starting to fall back into the Denver team that extremely difficult to score against. And obviously the numbers have gone down. Now, in fairness to them, over that stretch where they started off, what was it, I think nine and two, and now they are. They were nine and one.

Nine and one. They beat Boston on November 5th, nine and one, and then since then lost the Memphis, Brooklyn, Milwaukee, Houston, New Orleans, Milwaukee, and then obviously beat Atlanta, like you said. Yeah, I mean, not bad loss. The Brooklyn at home,

the Brooklyn at home is pretty bad. But I mean, I mean, it's home games. So that's what's surprising about it. These are the teams you need to beat, though. Like, you can't lose all these games against playoff teams. No, no, I mean, losing to Brooklyn, Milwaukee, and Houston, three games in a row in Denver. And by the way, that Milwaukee game was the perfect setup for them to win. Milwaukee had just played the night before in Los Angeles, and they were also on a long road trip,

and that was their last game of a long road trip, for Milwaukee to go in there and beat them. I mean, that was a prime spot for them to get a win. that one is a little shocking to me that they lost that one. But anyways, so what is it? Is it just going to be somewhere in the middle, whereas, yeah, they have corrected that they've been a very, very bad defensive team. They've been in the top, the bottom five of the league, traditionally in defensive efficiency over the course of the last couple of years,

and then they kind of had fixed at the beginning of the year. They're now eighth as it stands right now in defensive efficiency, that's by virtue of starting off so extremely strong, but then faltering as of late. What do we make of it? They have the number one defense over that nine and one start, and since then they have the 26th ranked defense. So not good.

They've been quite bad on the end of the floor, and I don't think it's any one particular player, any one particular issue. But it's been interesting watching Paul Millsap. I think he's maybe declined a little bit more than we would like to think. The last time against Janus, Granted it's Janus.

Yannis just destroyed him. Possession after possession and physically as well. And then there's this one possession where Janus pumped faked from three. And for whatever reason, Paul Milsap just jumped out of his shoes to contest a shot. And Janus is a guy who's shooting like 10% from three. You let him take that shot at this point of the year. Paul Milsap last night and generally just hasn't been quite the same on the defensive end of the floor as he was earlier in the year or in the past. And then the offensive end, their offense is really good.

Like, even during the stretch, they still rank sixth in offensive rating since they've really started losing games. But they, over the course of the season, still haven't been that good in fourth quarters. Their offense just seems to sputter late in games. I think they need, I think we talked about this either last week on this podcast or Friday's Corner 3 show. But I think they need a more traditional point card. They need somebody to compliment Nicole Yokic. Monta Morris has been really good off the bench for him, but it's a shame that you can't combine

with a fusion dance with Monta Morris and Jamal Mari. If you could fuse those two guys, you would have a great player, but you can't do that. That's just a drawing ballsy thing. I said this all last year about them. I felt like so many games came down to just, hey, if you had somebody that could just set you up a play and run the offense,

when it felt like so much of it was just equal opportunity whoever gets the ball at the end of games. And sometimes it was Gary Harris and sometimes it was Will Barton and sometimes it was Jamal Murray. Just somebody to settle them down. Run a play, run Harris off a screen and get him a look. But they have gone without

their traditional point guard and I think it's bid them. I also think it's bit them defensively. Like if they just had a real point guard that's not Monta Morris, right? Because Morris is as good as he's been offensively

As in a defensive player Yes They ain't the number one defense in the world They're probably not 26 They're probably somewhere in the middle And you're dead on about Millsap Because I saw him Not long ago

Jared Jackson murdered him He's just not the same guy anymore No my friend My friend Chris Harrington Said that it was like trains passing in the night Right, Jared Jackson Here's the future Here's the future of the NBA and here's the past.

And yeah, it looks like there's a real decline there. And he really saw it. He's 33 and he's going to turn 33 and he's going to turn 34 this season. So he's been around for a really long time. He has been around for a long time. I mean, and the only way you're amazing at 33 is if your name's Markisal, hey, oh, best team in the West. Or LeBron James. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that too.

LeBron's always an exception, though. I forgot about him. All right, let's get to this Markle Fult's story. Holy mackerel. So this morning, it was reported that Raymond Brothers, who I actually know Raymond, because Raymond was, he has been the agent for many different players. Most significantly, Victor Oladipo, he does not have Victor anymore. But he was the agent for Zach Randolph and Tony Allen.

So I saw him all the time. I know Raymond and he has Markle Fultz, and I have not spoken to Raymond, but I don't know what the hell this is all about. Because Raymond has come out and said that Markle Fultz needs to see a shoulder specialist, and that he's not going to practice or playing games until the specialist has evaluated him. Yeah, it's really a shame, right? I think we look back at last October when all the stuff first happened, and Raymond Brothers had that quote about Markell literally can't lift his shoulder over his head, And the conversation at the time kind of contrasted with the Philadelphia 76ers were saying about him.

Then in December, I believe the Sixers announced that he had a scapular muscular imbalance. And then maybe two, three weeks later, or maybe about a month later, Markell Fultz had that on-camera interview with Karan Butler, who was also a Raymond Brothers client. And they revealed that it was actually scapular dekinesis. I may be totally butchering how to pronounce that. But the point is it was a different injury. And they clarified what it actually was. And now it seems like to me that this is an agent,

Markell Fultz's circle making the decision, not the team, that he needs to see a specialist. And over the last couple weeks or so, I've been doing a lot of research about that scapular dekinesis injury. And I just wonder, I mean, could it be something else? You know, could it be something else that's either maybe that was misdiagnosed or maybe it's something that's related to that scapular dekinesis. injury, look into that, and sometimes there's always issues of nerves, something like that.

I just wonder, maybe there's more to this than what we've already thought about. Okay. All right. Let me, twofold. Number one, I don't think it's a coincidence that comes right after they make the McConnell switch. All right. That happened last night. And Brett Brown has said, you know, it's just going to be on a matchup basis, right?

So the kid is clearly kind of lost confidence and lost his spot, even though it's. is the number one pick. This is a play to make the story of Markell Fultz a physical story rather than a mental story. Because everybody in the free world is saying it's in between his ears. And you know, totally true. Maybe the physical has screwed up his head, right? And now he doesn't trust what he knows. But I mean, you've already had the trainer, you know, basically leak the story and say, I ain't working with that. guy anymore. As soon as the, you know what I mean?

The timing on that was interesting, right? He had that little weird. Yeah, as a video comes out of him looking wild as a buck on the free throw line. They, you know, they come back and they, uh, and, and Hanlon says, I ain't working with him. That relationship has been to a long time ago. Yeah. And now you have Raymond this morning saying he needs to go see a shoulder specialist to say,

like as to say, so here's what we know. Why is the agent? saying that he, that this is a physical issue. I mean, the team is with him every day. They have doctors and they have trainers. If he has a shoulder problem, theoretically, they should know. 100%. They should know. And he should either be resting or he should be rehabbing or whatever else. And so unless you want to tell me that the Sixers are all screwed up in terms of their medical staff and that they're still rolling them out there, even though this guy actually need some kind of procedure done on his shoulder, then I find this hard to believe. And I think it's a cover

up for a kid that's just really struggling right now. I don't think it's a cover up or anything like that, Chris. I think for them it's about finding out if there's a deeper issue, right? Like, you want that clarity where Markell clearly has something going on, whether it's mental or whether it's physical or whether it's both. There's clearly something wrong. when he takes the ball up and he's patting it between his hands in order to get a free throw off. There's clearly something wrong when he has that weird hitch. There's something wrong when the ball slips out of his hands, he says. There's something wrong.

And you've got to figure that out when you have a player with the talent and the potential of Markell Fultz, who just a year and a half ago was considered by almost everybody, the no-brainer number one pick in the draft, where the Sixers were praised for trading up for him. Markle Fultz still has that talent inside of him and we've seen some of the flashes over what has been like just such a weird, weird year and year plus for him so far.

So for Raymond Brothers and for Fultz and for everybody in his circle, you need to find out what's wrong no matter how many doctors you get to see. I don't think it has anything to do with covering up his struggles. I think it has to do with finding out what's actually wrong.

And it's really important you figure that out because he's still so young where even if it is some deep, issue, there's a lot of time for him to recover. There's a lot of time for him to turn into the player that the Sixers thought he can be that Markell Fultz can be. You need to figure out what's actually wrong. No, no, no.

All I'm saying is it shouldn't take the agent if something is physically wrong. That's what I'm saying. It can take that. We just saw this with Kawhi Leonard last year. The Spurs and Kawhi Leonard's camp disagreed on how to treat his problem. It's very possible that the Sixers do know that there's a deeper issue and that they just have a different way of dealing with it. Maybe for them they think it's something that he can play through

and over time, whatever it is, it can heal. Maybe brothers and Fultz and their camp believe differently. We don't know those details. All I know is that they're making a good choice to see if there's something deeper here. Because something's wrong. Clearly there's something wrong, right? Do we agree with that?

Like, clearly there's something wrong with Markell Fultz? No, I'm serious. He's batting around the ball in a free throw line. That's my point. It's an obvious answer. Of course there's something wrong. So what are you going to do? You got to figure out what's wrong.

It's the only way you can solve a problem. I'm not an NBA player and I don't yelp when I shoot. Yeah. Something's wrong. And so what do you have to do? You got to figure out the problem. Well, Raymond Brothers has taken it into his own hands and said that his player is not going to practice or play. Sometimes that's what you got to do.

And this is like real life stuff too. Like sometimes if you think there's something medically. wrong with like your grandma and like doctors are telling you that there's, you know, oh, it's not a problem, but you know there's something up. You should go see another doctor sometimes. Well, then that actually will obviously not fare well. That does not put Philly in a great light. I would say that.

Yeah. Well, I mean, you can say maybe, but it could just be. No, it's fair. It's fair. I mean, they just had a peanut allergy for Zaire Smith and he dropped, according to John and Zalas and his article today, A, according to citing sources up to 20 pounds. They've had issues with Joel and Bill O'Neelyne for it.

It wouldn't be the first time there was an issue on the medical side. No, fair is fair. But no, just to your analogy, if a doctor, if I knew there was something wrong with my grandma and a doctor kept telling me no, I'd say the doctor's a damn idiot. You know what I mean? And so this feels like Raymond Brothers saying they're damn idiots. We'll find out. We'll find out who's right.

And hopefully for Fultz's case and especially for the fact that he was a number one pick and there's a lot of pressure on him. he's able to become whatever player he was going to become, because I know a lot of people have already bailed on him. And honestly, now that Jimmy Butler's there, they ain't got to worry about it. You shouldn't bail on him. You shouldn't. He's too young to bail on him.

Well, you shouldn't. All right. Well, listen, I've jumped off the boat. I'll try to climb back in. And when I try to climb back in, just step on my fingers. You can sell some stock if you want to. You can sell some stock if you're worried about having some losses. But I don't think you should totally give up on Mark Hill.

Fultz, he just turned 20, man. He just turned 20 this year. So like I said, if there's a deeper issue, shoulder, nerve, you know, something on the mental side, it can be solved. There's a lot of time for him. I wouldn't give up completely. And he's got less pressure now after the Butler

acquisition. They don't need Mark L. Fultz to be a great team. Send him away and get the problem solves. Yep. He is Kevin O'Connor from the ringer. Kevin, it is always a pleasure. If you dig with your hand, go give us some rating and review on iTunes. Five stars, five stars.

And we'll talk to you next week. Thanks, Kevin. Thank you, Chris. Happy Thanksgiving, everybody. Happy Thanksgiving. Gobble, gobble.