The Ringer NBA Show - Will Giannis Antetokounmpo Sign a Contract Extension With the Milwaukee Bucks? Plus, James Harden’s Beef With Daryl Morey and a 2023 FIBA World Cup Check-In | Group Chat

Episode Date: August 31, 2023

Rob and Wos discuss Giannis Antetokounmpo’s statements in The New York Times regarding the status of a potential contract extension with the Milwaukee Bucks and what it means for his future with the franchise (1:40). Next, they react to James Harden’s ongoing beef with Daryl Morey, the president of basketball operations for the Philadelphia 76ers, and the NBA’s subsequent decision to fine Harden $100K (15:38). Last, the guys check in on the 2023 FIBA World Cup and give some of their biggest takeaways from the global tournament (35:30). Hosts: Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre Producer: Kai Grady and Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Benjamin Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, this is Danny Hyfitz from the Ringer Fantasy Football Show. For all your fantasy football needs, check out the Ringer Fantasy Football Show with me, Craig Horlebeck and Danny Kelly. That's the Ringer Fantasy Football Show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to an NBA off-season edition of group chat. Don't be confused. Justin Verre is still a member of the crew, but he's off today. So I'm holding down the hosting duties, of course, I'm Big Waz. still got Rob Mahoney in the house. Rob, what's going on, brother?

Not a lot. This is an off-season edition. Without Justin, is this off-brand group chat? Are we like store brand group chat now? Or are we genuine article? This is just like kind of a bootleg cut. No, this is still the genuine article. It's just, you know, it's just a little bit tampered down. You know, the takes won't be flying in as hot. No. Me and Rob won't have a foil for our, you know, great correct tape. and somebody to play devil's advocate against the perfection of our analysis.

But it's all good. Justin will be back soon. Obviously, we've tamped down the frequency with less news because it's the offseason, nothing's going on. But there's still a little bit of NBA news out there. It's the NBA. These guys can't help but make news when they can, Rob. And I want to get started with the statements that Janice gave to the New York Times. Yeah.

This is something that only you and I can talk about because I think we can agree that we're just never going to bring this up around Justin. Like I could not handle him feeling validated in his buck cynicism at this point. Well, yes, he's been a buck cynic for a while now. And the thing is, too, I'm not somebody who's always got their eye on predicting who the next disgruntled superstar is. I feel like once it comes, we get enough of that anyway. like we don't need to do it in the run-up, or at least I don't feel the need to put some energy into the run-up of disgruntled superstar.

But I think the Yonest thing came as a surprise because he's been a member of the Ten Toes All-Stars, you know, the Damien Lillard type, the Steph Curry types, you know, I'm doing it with one team, I'm loyal, I'm not like these other superstar. AAU upset. crazy NBA kind of guys.

I'm going to be dual with the same franchise forever. And yeah, he essentially gave statements to the New York Times to the opposite effect. He's like, I'm not going to sign an extension. It doesn't make sense for me business-wise. And also, I want to make sure that as an organization, we're all aligned on a mission of winning at all costs, making every single sacrifice. He mentioned, you know, sacrifices like, not being with his family and, you know, the type of work that he puts in.

And I think what he was talking about, sacrifice is like, yo, bucks. I know this small market always crying poor. Sacrifice some money. Spend some damn money. We all got to make sacrifices here. I just thought that was interesting that he would do that at this time, Rob. It certainly felt like the Janus version of kind of a courteous warning shot. Yeah.

That, look, this is something that's on my mind as a player, as a star. you know, the story, you know, Tanya Ganguly's story for The New York Times, I think it more largely is about Janus kind of taking a more proactive approach in the management of his life. And some of that is his investments, some of that is, you know, live in the mogul lifestyle. Like, you know, like many players, he has a production company now. It's kind of wild to think that he's a superstar in his prime with a full feature-length docu-drama about his life. Just an extremely strange situation Janus has found himself in.

But look, he's a guy who's investing and putting time into all these other places, providing for his family. And as we talked about, kind of more relevant to our NBA interests, looking at the bucks, looking at his future and saying, like, is this a place where I can trust that everyone involved, as you said, is sacrificing the way I am sacrificing? And the bucks, if we're being totally frank, and I would say I'm still someone who's pretty optimistic about the bucks in the grand scheme of things. And certainly, as long as they have Janus, a lot of that stuff is kind of taken care of. But I think what he's saying is you don't, you can't necessarily pin that in, right? You need to prove to me that this reinvention that's happening within the franchise

between the coaching change, there's some roster pieces shifting around, they're going to have to kind of rethink what the core is over time just because of age. You know, guys like Brooke Lopez and Chris Middleton and Drew Holiday are not getting any younger. And certainly the playoffs did not go to the way that the Bucks expected or wanted.

They're going to have to prove things to him. And that's a team that doesn't necessarily, have a lot of, you know, like draft capital to speak of in terms of just like, oh, we're going to throw a bunch of picks into a deal to make something happen. They're going to have to get pretty creative with this. So to that effect, right, because I think people are wondering, like, all right, yes, you were pants in the first round by the Miami Heat. You know, there are some, definitely some qualifiers.

Obviously, Janice was hurt for, like, then they have that series. Huge qualifier. Yes. And that stuff matters. but they've had embarrassing to, wow, this is horrific flameouts in the playoffs a decent amount during Janus's tenure there. So, you know, whatever. I don't see how he could see that as like so surprising. Like, bro, you guys have done this a decent amount.

But what I would ask you, Rob, is how would you assess the current state of things in Milwaukee? Right. Like, if you're looking at it from the viewpoint of Janus, obvious NBA superstar, top five player on his worst day, probably, top three, top two when he's got things cooking on all cylinders. How do you view the short-term and long-term trajectory of what the Bucks have going on right now? Because I know I have my own opinions. Here's the thing. Even with all of the questions we would have about the Bucks, again, a team that lost role players in the off-season. that has all these questions.

Chris Middleton had off-season surgery as soon as that series was over. We need to see kind of where he's at going into the season and those kinds of things as well. Who in the East are you really betting on to be clearly better than them? And I think that's kind of the case for the Bucks

is the Celtics are one of the most talented teams in the league, but are stacking injury risk on injury risk on injury risk with their roster. The Sixers, who I know we're going to get to and talk about a little bit, some huge questions looming over the future. of that franchise. And other than that, it's like, well, I guess the heat if they trade for Damien Lillard,

you know, it's the calves, if they take the next step. There's not like a clear team that's going to be better than them in the immediate. The question is, and I think to Janus's larger point, he's going to sign a long-term extension, what do they look like in three years? What do they look like even beyond this season, you know, just as simple as like, what is the core of this team moving forward? And what is their path to be better than they've been? because I will defend to the end of the day

that qualifier we set up top. Janus was hurt in that first round series that changes everything about the complexion of it. But if you are Janus and you fall on your back and you leave the game, you leave that series temporarily, even when you come back and you're not feeling like fully yourself

and you're looking around and you're saying like, can I not get a little more help than I'm getting in this situation? Can I not trust my teammates to win one more game than they did? That's a tough place to be in a superstar.

It's a pretty reasonable one, if you are, Janice, to look a little sideways at the roster, to look a little sideways the organization, who, as you said, has chosen financially

to pair back sometimes when they really should have been spending like a contender. Can we not do a little better than this? Yeah, I'll say this for the bucks in their defense, because oftentimes on our show, I'm tasked with being the management hater.

The bucks have spent more than, I think people would have expected them to, They've gone into the luxury tax multiple times. They've put more money into this Janus reign than I think their reputation prior to would have suggested that they would have. So I will say that they haven't been, you know, just completely like Donald Sterling this whole situation, right? Like just being complete cheapos. No, that has not been the case. However, we can leave that to the side.

You and I both heard about the little grumblings going on over there about a general unhappiness from the Janus in his camp about maybe the sweet time Chris Middleton was taking to come back from his knee injury. There was like a little bit of grumblings like, all right, bro, like, come on, man, like get back on a horse. Like, this is a championship season. It's a championship team. Get back. Although, by all indications, it seems like him and Chris Middleton are pretty freaking tight. Yeah. The fact that the Bucks, you know, paid that man in the offseason and all of that, like, long term.

It's, like, obvious that Janice was with it. The Budenholzer firing, I think is another indication of, like, maybe Yonis wasn't really feeling this guy long term. And the fact that they fired him is a clear sign that Yonis wasn't like, oh, no, you know, he didn't, you know, jump in front of that train to save Budenholzer. And I think that was for a reason. the Brooke Lopez deal. Hefty money they paid up. That's obviously a Janus thing. But you can't afford to lose him, right?

You can't. And of course, like I said, like that was big money, though. And Brooke Lopez is 36 years old at this point. And so, you know, like they're doing things for Janus. And you can say all of that. This is what I would say. There's nobody on the box. And I would even add, including Janus,

that you can reasonably feel like will be better at their job in the year. years to come. Everybody's declining. Janice might be at a steady level. You might say he's plateauing and that sounds like a backhanded, like you're dissing him, but plateauing at, you know, superstar all-time level. Multi-MvP teacher hallfamer. Yes, he's going to be an MVP level for the next three years, of course. Right. But I don't think he's going to surpass what he did two years ago in the next three years.

I don't see how you could reasonably expect that. Brooke Lopez, given his age, Chris Middleton, both age and injury history. And then Drew Holiday. Like, I think we've always thought of Drew Holiday as this young spry guy. He's getting up there. And I think you, I think in the playoffs you even saw a little bit of a decline on his trademark defense where Jimmy Butler was just fish fillet in this guy. Well, our guys work in a double shift, you know, like guarding elite players, trying to do a lot for the offense. and we've seen when Drew does that at times,

he'll regularly shoot like 35% from the field. It's not exactly looking at the Mona Lisa. That's not. It is not. But you're right. Ultimately, you're right. Because of the age of the roster, no one is necessarily trending in that direction

where you would expect any jumps by leaps and bounds or even like marginal improvement from these guys. I think you're right that most of the key players have kind of capped out or reached their ceilings individually. the question vis-a-vis Mike Boodenholzer is can you rework what you already have to make it more effective, right? It's not that Janus is going to take a leap.

It's not that Drew or Chris or anyone on down the line is going to take a leap. It's like, can Jay Crowder go from useless to us to a useful role player, right? Can we rework things defensively? Can Jay Crowder be as good as Pat Conninton? One can only dream of being as good as Pat Conninton for the Milwaukee Bucks,

but Jay Crater, I dare you to dream. And that's kind of where Milwaukee is and is going to have to be. And sure, they're going to be a team that's, you know, playing a buyout market, looking for guys getting dumped at the trade deadline. But let's we forget with the way that the cap works now in this new CBA environment, there's not going to be as many teams that are really like ejecting guys at the deadline, right? The idea that you're going to be able to jettison people into cap space late into the season with the way that the CBA set up now is just not like a realistic expectation.

And so the idea that a good player would be traded to a bad team and then cut in the buyout market and you could just scoop them up, I don't know that's necessarily feasible. And so the bucks are going to need to do some work early in this season to get ahead of the market, I think, to try to find another decent player or two. And ideally someone who's in the age range you're talking about where it's, you know, mid-20s at least, you know, you don't want someone too young because you want them to be playoff ready. But can we get like a decent role player in their mid-20s or in the 27-28 range who you can expect to go. grow with the success of the team. Yeah, and why I find the timing of this so fascinating is how interconnected, it seems, to me, to the other two major stories of this offseason. I really do wonder if Janice got on the phone with Dame Lillard and talked to him about

what's happening in Portland. Because this idea of quote-unquote promises and commitment from management not being met or the idea that you need to constantly be holding these guys accountable and you can't really put your faith in a franchise, right? Like literally, because that's what people are saying the Dame Lillard right now. It's like, well, you sign that extension. So when they didn't do the things that you thought was right, you have no recourse. You're locked in. So to hear Yana say, no, I'm not locking in. I can't trust that management is going to do as I ask after giving this commitment.

I really do see these stories as interconnected in that way because it's Janice being like, no, management can't be trusted. You need to hold their feet to the fire at all moments because the second you relinquish leverage to these cats, they have you over a barrel and they just treat you out what the hell they want. So kudos to Janice for being like, no, no, I'm not going to be some naive young guy, you know, just happy to be here person. I'm going to actually leverage my own agency, my superstar abilities,

my, you know, the individual demand that I know I have in the marketplace in order to get management to acquiesce to my demands. And yeah, it's hard for me to not see that parallel with the Dame Lillard situation. Where to reiterate, Dame Lillers side claims that they sign an extension with a promise from management that they do with to do everything that. that they could in order to compete. Not exactly happening. And management, since he signed that deal,

has done the opposite at every single turn. And so, yeah, like, I just wanted to, I just thought that was interesting and how connected that was, which brings us to the other huge story of the off-season, and that's James Hardin and the Houston Rockets. I mean, excuse me, James Hardin.

Kind of. James Hardin and the Philadelphia Rockets. I mean, the Philadelphia 76ers ran by one Darry. The NBA has levied a $100,000 fine on James Hardin, which the Players Association is actually appealing. It's pretty hefty fine by NBA standards. Yeah, $100,000 is crazy. That's a lot of money.

Even like public trade demands are usually about $50K. And so the fact that this is double that, basically more than you see for any non-huge, huge, huge NBA story breaking. Pretty hefty slap on the wrist for our guy, James. So, of course, James Hardin went to China said that he will never work

or he doesn't want to work or refuses to work with the franchise that is associated with Darrell Mori. And then he repeated it for emphasis. Just to make sure that all of the Chinese fans in attendance who are like, I want to make sure you guys are hearing my message today? The NBA essentially in their

statement said that this guy threatened to a work stoppage and we're going to find him for that. Whereas like, I think James Harden and the team that's appealing this can just say, no, I was appealing for firing. I was appealing to the 76ers

brass to fire Darry. That's not me saying I don't want to come to work. That's me voicing my displeasure with the work that Darry does for them and that they should let go of him. I think they could reason make that argument. And I think they'll probably win this appeal.

But Rob, like, what's your take on? Because this, to bring the audience behind the curtain, of course, me, Rob, Varyer, Ben Cruz. We're all in Stockholm for Spotify Symposium. And I slack the team while from my hotel room, because I'm, of course, still consuming NBA media. around this James Hardin news. And I'm like, ah, everybody's getting this damn story, Roe.

This is killing me. Blah, blah, blah. And by the way, crickets in the slack. Everybody's like, what is wrong with this freaking maniac? We're in freaking Sweden enjoying ourselves.

And this idiot is getting riled up about the Hardin situation book. Yeah, where are you at right now with the story, Rob? Well, first of all, I knew you weren't going to let this meatball sail over the plate without commentary, right?

We weren't going to get in and out of this pod today without a little bit of Harden Talk based on your Slack behavior. Yeah. I will say I've kind of lost the plot on why James does most things that he does, publicly speaking. I think you're right that the pressure was different than, I mean, it's notable that he did not say he will never be a part of the Philadelphia 76ers, right? He levied it specifically at Darry. The subsequent reporting, based on the NBA's investigation, was that like Harden specific problem. was that apparently there was an understanding

or it was conveyed to James that if he opted into his contract, he would be quickly moved, quickly being the operative word. We are two months later. All a free agency is coming gone. And here we still are with no resolution in this situation whatsoever.

I get why he's miffed, but also I would say, what did you reasonably expect to happen here based on wanting to get to the clippers, wanting to get to other desired destinations? He saw what happened with Ben Simmons, surely. I'm confused as to what James' reasonable expectations were. So let me unconfuse you in the audience

and why I was so worked up about how the Hardin situation is being covered in our media. Hardin, let's rewind the clock, because people are just like, oh, he got traded to the Sixers, and then there was the opt-out, and then there was the Tucker deal that, you know, he sacrificed for PJ Tucker. And then, you know, that opt out was the wink, wink that this offseason he would get paid. And it's like, no, guys.

The real lie that Darryor Morey told was before that. Rewind, guys, to when James Hardin was a Brooklyn net. Joe Sy and Sean Marks offered him a $200 million extension. This was well reported. They offered him. I'm pretty sure Kyrie was offered. They offered both of them. Extensions.

James Harder specifically was offered $200 million. He never signed it. He didn't sign it. Why, guys, so that he could leverage Brooklyn into a trade to Philadelphia? You don't say no to 200 million guaranteed to go to Philadelphia unless you have a deal in place with Philadelphia. There's no reason to just roll the dice on 200 million guaranteed unless you have a promise from the team that's acquiring you.

And in the past, guys, you can go look up any other superstar disgrunt to trade where they leverage the team into a trade that they didn't get the extension from the team that acquired them. This is not how this works. People do not say no to money in one place without understanding that they're guaranteed to get it at the place that acquires them. So that is the original promise that has not been kept. Everybody keeps saying, oh, he stunk up the joint after the playoffs. And so the Sixers are like, oh, no, we're going to pay. No, James Hardin said no to $200 million to leverage a trade to the Sixers with the understanding that they would make him whole.

Okay? And so Darry has now obviously, obviously gone back on that promise. He's obviously made the calculation that that promise doesn't matter. James Hardin isn't worth the deal. And the fact that Darry cost this guy some dollars in the process, he doesn't care. And I will say this, like, that's unethical behavior on Darry's part in this context. Allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly. And what people need to know is that the entire league runs on these handshake agreements.

Literally. That's why James Hardin is going scorched earth. That's why he's behaving in the manner that he is. There was a promise made. And these promises are always kept. I'm telling you, you can go look it up. No superstar who had the opportunity to sign an extension. didn't, thereby sending the warning shot to the team that had them, that, yo, you're going to lose me for nothing, right?

Exerting their leverage to get to another team didn't get that same extension from the other team. And that's what we're talking about here. And the problem for James Hardin is that under the league's collective bargaining agreement, this is technically illegal to agree to such terms ahead of time. And so that's why you see the vagaries of how he. he's handling this situation where he has to pretend that his beef is with not, his trade requests not being honest. Like, no, these motherfuckers didn't pay me. Well, so do you think the wish to be traded, quote unquote, quickly factors in at all?

Do you think that's a potential olive grant in this situation? Of course it factors in because it's the idea being that like, okay, you tricked me into coming here, right? Obviously telling me that I was going to get my 200 from you guys. So you tricked me. You clearly don't think I'm worth it. So you're not signing me. Let me go.

I promise you I'll get this bread from somebody who wants me. I think James Hardin is appealing to, again, some, like some ethics. It's like, guys, like, you tricked me into coming here. Now let me go and go get my money elsewhere. Because what you did in the context of the NBA business is extremely unethical. I'm telling you guys, these handshake agreements are how the league is run. They really are. I mean, just from a 10,000 foot view, the sheer number of options that exist in NBA contracts,

those are not generally speaking trust fall exercises in which all of the league is simultaneously jumping into the void together. There are some cases where some guys aren't quite sure, especially at the role player level, how much they can make because it depends on, oh, what are the Bulls going to do with their mid-level exception? What is this team going to do with its available space? Like, I need to see how these three guys ahead of me in line make out before I can find my spot. That does exist for guys on options. For guys like James Hardin, especially at the level he was operating at as a Brooklyn net, and earlier in his career as a six-year, not so much.

So I hear you, the idea that a player in his position would turn down a massive extension is extremely suspect. You should raise all of your eyebrows available at that. Who has been money, money, money, money, is inside. Like, that's been the sort of guiding principle of pretty much

most of his decision making in his career. The idea that James Hardin specifically would be like, yeah, I can sacrifice $200 million. It doesn't make any sense, people. He's been a basically extend at first possible opportunity to maximize

money kind of player and not a I'm going to get to the last year of my deal and apply pressure that way kind of player. But I have to say, I didn't expect, like, I know you wanted to like dig into the dynamics of this issue, but leave it to a James Hardin versus management conflict to force you into the James Hardin corner of all places.

But again, James Hardin, had he signed that Brooklyn deal, right, would not be playing at the level of what that deal would be paying him today? No. Right? We know that that's the case. Like, he's just not as good or he's declined at a rapid enough pace that the deal wouldn't

make sense today. And we have that hindsight, but that's not how these contracts work. It goes both ways. Sometimes teams sign a guy, Ben Simmons, to a deal that they think in the future he's going to justify, even if he doesn't justify it. in the present, right? I can think of Michael Porter Jr. In Denver, right?

Sometimes, however, teams sign guys to deals that they way overperform. Think Steph Curry on a four-year $48 million deal in Golden State, a deal that allowed them to get Kevin Durant later, right? Like, these deals go both ways, but you don't get to re-adjudicate them post-haste, right? Like, it doesn't happen that way, especially when you've already had a promise with the guy. And I understand that it would have looked crazy to a bunch of people. And the reason why I feel extremely, like,

why this is so top of mind to me, I remember when we had Derek Bodner on the weekend show. He's one of the most tapped-in Philadelphia people that there is. And after the first hard-in season, because I'm operating under the assumption, Philly traded for this guy. they have to pay him. Like, they have to.

Like, there's no scenario where they don't. And my eyebrow was raised immediately because I remember Bodnar said two things. He said, one, Doc is not getting fired after that first season, which I thought was shocking. And two, Hardin's not getting a long-term extension. He said that on the show. He's like, it's not happening. I was like, are you sure? Like, that seems weird because he turned down money to go there.

No, it's not going to happen. I'm like, okay, maybe they're kicking the can down the road and they're going to get fancy about how they end up paying this guy. And now we've come to the second offseason in a row where it's not happening. And now James Hardin is like, oh, no, no, no, no, y'all think I'm playing with y'all. And so that's why this thing is played out in the manner that it has. Well, it's going to require, to your earlier point, about kind of James Hardin and what leg he has to stand on here, some clever,

resolution, right? This is not a thing where you can make the argument that, oh, we had this handshake agreement to the league to get some kind of satisfactory response. He has to make comments like this one. Or he has, or some kind of public posturing to achieve some other outcome. I don't know what else you do other than just not show up if you're James Harden. And then you get hit on the wrist for that. I think we're Hardin messed up, Rob, um, was opting into this, this contract itself. Should have just been a free agent, you think? He should have just been a free agent. He should, and again, we're talking about James Hardin, the money-focusedness of this guy's

career, which lets you know that he had this promise. The smartest thing to do if you were this mad was to be a free agent, and now the 76ers have no point guard. They have no lead guard. They have no distributor. They have no playmaker. And he either going to the season with no Hardin and nothing to show for him leaving and Hardin being willing to go sign a mid-level somewhere.

play on the minimum somewhere in order to get this deal next off season to play for but harden being hardened it's like no I'm not sacrificing money this season for leverage I'm gonna find my leverage some other way and that's why you're seeing the antics in China

or whatever but he should have made a bet and played chicken with Mari and them and been like you want to embarrass yourself and take this team into the season without me guy who led the league and exists guy who was an all-MBA caliber type of player last year, you want to go into the season without me?

Go ahead, bro. I will cost myself money in the immediate future to stick it to you and go get my bread elsewhere, right? I think he made a mistake in opting into this deal because it limited his options and it sort of gave Philadelphia, you know, sort of put their management in the driver's seat. I mean, it's a tough bet to make, though,

when you're 34 years old staring down. I think it's a $35 or $36 million option for this season. And I think it speaks to the larger complexity of this situation, which is I honestly don't know exactly where to chain the original sin of this progression of events too. Honestly, it may go back even previous to the Brooklyn scenario you're talking about in the initial trade to Philadelphia. I think you can follow James Hardin's career

and obviously his relationship with Darry. back a long time. And there could have been any number of events along the way that led us to James Harden publicly calling him a liar twice at a public event. But then you do get into this position where he has to make that call, right? Do I become a free agent?

Do I pick up this option? The fact that he did pick it up, I think did speak to at least some level of existing trust at that point or else why would you pick it up other than, as you're saying, like I guess maybe it is literally just the financial bottom line and the risk of, can I make this back down the line if I become a free agent? I think it's just like, I think the pickup is like,

look, guys, we know this relationship is over. Get rid of me. I think that's just what it is. I think it's a pickup banking on some level of human relationship situation where it's like, yeah, I don't have to do this in the case of Sixers, Darry, and Management. But let's just do it in such a way.

Right. But the problem is the Sixers need to be placating the most important person in the organization, Joelle and Bede and trading James Hardin for nothing is not a move that placates him. Like, making the team worse is not a move that placates him. And so management is in a tough position because they can't just get rid of Hardin even though they completely ruin that relationship by their actions. And again, people are going to say, oh, waz, this is a special? speculation. Do you, you might not, guys, I promise you, man, they told us dude they was going to pay them. Like, like, I promise you. Like, it's $200 million, people. Like, this isn't some chunk chains.

This is big-ass money. Even for somebody who had already earned as much money from Adidas and his NBA deals as James Hardin. $200 million is a crazy sum to just be like, oh, I'll just take my chances with the Sixers and getting that at some point from them. Like they promised this dude that. Even if for as much as he may not have loved how the situation with the Nets had developed and everything that was going on, Kyrie at that $200 million.

It buys a lot of goodwill for a player. But look, you hate to see it. And honestly, you know, you and I have seen this before. We'll see it again. This is really exactly what just happened with Justin Verrier. He told us our relationship with him was over. he requested a trade to off, you know, off guard with Austin Rivers and we're like, you know, pick up your option.

We'll see how it goes. We'll see how it goes. But yeah, I think this is something worth monitoring. I honestly think Hardin's just going to have to eat his vegetables and come back. Like, he just doesn't have any actual recourse here. Like, there's nothing you can do. The fact that he's on a one-year deal, there's rules in the CBA to stipulate that he essentially has to come in.

He can't hold out. Like, there's nothing he can do. He won't get paid if he tries to do a holdout. I guess he could come in and just be a petulant child and make things uncomfortable for the new coach, for this team that still has championship aspirations. He can be a disruptor behind the scenes, I'm sure. But there's no universe that he doesn't come back.

And, you know, for somebody who cares about the money as much as he does, they don't have to pay him if he doesn't come back. come back. And so, yeah, man, I just think ultimately he's going to come back and eat the Brussels sprouts and move on. That's just... Does our guy eat vegetables? No, that's the thing. I don't know. Is he into the Brussels like this? Is he hitting the like, you know, the Brussels with a little balsamic vinaigarette on them? Like, you know, a nice roast. Is he into that game? I don't know. I am suddenly reminded. I had wiped this story from my memory. Do you remember when the NBA story of the week was unhappy Ben Simmons may have gone through a Sixers practice with a cell phone in

his pocket. Do you remember this is a huge story? Yes, yes, yes, I remember that. I don't know if like, here's the thing, whatever happens with James Hardin at this point, any Sixers event he shows up to is now mandatory viewing. Media Day, if he shows up, the sound bites are going to be amazing. If he's playing game one of the preseason or the regular season, we have to watch it. And I don't know that that's exactly what the NBA is looking.

for from, you know, trying to get more eyeballs on the regular season product, but we will be there. On to less contentious news, Rob. We wanted to do a feeba check-in with NBA guys. Got to do it. And some non-MBA guys. We'll save that non-MBA, former NBA guy for the last segment of his podcast. But the story, man, out of feeba for me, obviously, I think one, Shea Gilgis Alexander has looked like the best player in the tournament to me. He just does what he wants, when he wants, how he wants. It's been exhilarating the watch. Like, man, this guy is legitimately an NBA superstar.

Like, this guy is, he's it. Lucas looked like Luca. I was about to say, I don't want to rehash, like, the Hoof Collective's whole deal. I know, I know. We got at least, if you're going to say Shea's the best player in the tournament, Luca's pretty freaking good. Yes, he is. And Sveled Luca.

Professionalism, Luca. Offseason in shape, Luca. Wow. It's kind of crazy. Like, you know, it's like one of those things that I realize, you know, at some point in my 20s like, look, if I got to be to work at 8 a.m., I probably shouldn't go out and hang out with the fellas and go crazy at happy hours. It's like, yo, save that for when you don't have, you know, work to do.

That's Luca. he's finally realized that like he shouldn't show up to training camp hungover. You should already be in shape. You should be ready to work. When he gets there, he shouldn't be working himself into work shape. When he gets to, it's crazy.

It's like, yo, this guy looks skinny. It's nuts. So that's good to see. To me, Team USA, they've looked amazing. Just how hard they're playing. Spolstra and Steve Kerr are coaching the hell up. I mean, that's a great coaching staff. It's amazing.

The unity with which they play, the collective sort of force with which they play on defense has been just really inspiring stuff. But realistically, the story is Austin Reeves. I mean, Lord have. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The story is Austin Reeves. And you know why, man,

just his role on this team to just seamlessly fit into whatever they need. Yeah. If it's scoring, if it's distribution, If it's guarding different positions, if it's spot-up shooting, if it's fast break look-aheads. Like, I'm talking about this guy is just a hooper. I hate that euphemism. I really do, but he is just an all-around basketball player.

And it's just so incredible to see. Obviously, Anthony Edwards has been incredible in spurts where he just looked like, you know, one of the most unstoppable dominant scoring forces in our game. Looking like a guy for sure. Looking like a guy for sure. But man, I just love Austin Reeves as just the glue guy of this team. Is this incredible to watch? Well, this is bringing all of my basketball worlds into focus at the same time.

Because I completely agree with you on what makes him valuable to Team USA. And really, it's the same thing that makes him valuable to the Lakers, too, right? He can play with AD and LeBron. He can run, pick and roll without those guys if you need. need them to, on ball, off ball, whatever, defensively, like, competent enough to handle some different kinds of assignments. Not a perfect player, but plugable into so many different kinds of roles. And on the other side of my current basketball and NBA life, to lift up the hood a little bit,

we're getting into top 100 ranking season, right? We're going through this exercise for our ranking for the ringer. And let me tell you, this kind of player, Austin Reeves specifically, so hard to rank versus guys who have like, let's say bigger roles but more particular games. You know, you have guys who can do things that Austin Reeves could never do, right?

Like, in an ideal situation, a Russell Westbrook to put it on the extreme end of the spectrum. I think an even better example is Brandon Ingram. This is a great, this is a great kind of pivot for the conversation because Brandon Ingram, to this point,

has not been what Team USA needs necessarily. He's been kind of emblematic of the, more mechanical tendencies in their half-court offense, the need to like, okay, if this guy is going to be effective, we need to get him the ball and run particular kinds of actions, to the point that you sub in Josh Hart in his spot in the starting lineup, and all of a sudden, things are a little bit more fluid.

Things are a little more easygoing. And Brandon Ingram, also an incredibly hard guy to rank. You know, as a guy who's like, this is a very talented offensive player, but kind of needs everything to be just so, to be the best version of himself, and to really elevate even a team USA to the level that you would want. He's on the lowest grade of effective ball dominant guys. Yes.

And so the argument being, and Mikhail Bridges is now becoming, he's ascending in Brooklyn into that echelon of low grade ball dominance. But he's at least like an all-NBA level defender. And Brandon Ingram, I think, respectfully, is not. Is not. And so that is the question, right? What's more valuable? Like, I know for a fact, because I've seen him do it,

when McKell Bridges is in role player mode, he is a superstar in that mode. And I know for a fact that any team who has serious championship aspirations, he will start on that team, like straight up. Like, whether you want to put him at an undersized four or a regular three or what he's going to start on a team that has major championship aspirations, right? is that more valuable than Brandon Ingram who just brings, you know, a low grade. It's a quality, but it's the lowest of that quality to a team like the Pelicans.

Or, you know, let's just say Brandon Ingram was in Charlotte. He'd be their best on-ball option. He'd probably help them get to 42 wins. But is that more valuable than the highest level of role player on real teams? that's tough. I mean, that's a tough question to even answer. It's very tough. And it's, I think for a franchise,

it can be a tough question to answer. And it really depends on your market and your situation. A team like Charlotte, to continue your example, for them getting to the playoffs is immensely valuable and important. And so a player like Brandon Ingram, who's probably better at getting you to the playoffs than Mikhail Bridges is, health withstanding. And that's kind of another question with Ingram in the bigger picture.

Probably better at getting you. you to the playoffs than someone like Bridges is. But if we're talking about who gets you to the second round, who gets you to the conference finals, who is an essential piece of a high achieving team, we're still kind of waiting to see that from Ingram. And he has so many different skills that should be able to translate.

He is a good playmaker. He is a good perimeter shooter. He's remade himself into a really good three-point shooter. But the cadence at which he does those things has so much more to do with controlling the ball than it does for someone like necessarily Bridges or Reeves has to be. And so that's why those get the fluidity

of those kinds of players. Extremely important for Team USA in the mold of your Andre Iguodalas of Team USA past. There have been lots of role players who have come and gone in the program,

your Tashon princes and your Rudy Gays and your Eric Gordons before he was a member of the Bahamas national team somehow. All those guys kind of found ways

to plug and play within the system. And Austin Reeves is kind of the best version of that guy for Team USA right now. but really like there's lots of players up and down the roster who are malleable in that way. Brandon Ingram is just not yet one of them.

Yeah, and I think the question really comes down to is like, could Brandon Ingram ever play like McHale Bridges, right? Like could he ever scale back his more flashier stuff and be like, all right, this is not necessarily useful for this given context. And now let me make myself into something else. I don't think a guy in his 20s who's, you know, already shown, that he's got off ball, on ball juice is going to be a willing participant

in that kind of thing. I think that's something he will embrace later on in his career because he's so toolsy, man. Like the length and, you know, lateral quickness is not crazy, but just his size and his length, he should be able to be doing so much more

than what he does. But, you know, and he struggled, right? And that's why I bring him in, because he's the guy like this kind of struggling to find a place for himself where, A lot of his mid-range juice, his, you know, on-ball pick-and-roll creation, which he's made himself into a credible pick-and-roll player.

Like, he's got way better at passing and stuff like that. Great mid-range score, like, has a lot to offer. When you have Brunson and Halliburton on your team, I don't need you to run pick-and-rolls for me. These guys are A-plus-plus-level pick-and-roll operators. You're a B-level, which is incredible to add to the other things that you have. but on this team, when I have guys that are just way more effective at it,

we don't need you doing that. So now it becomes like, what are we using from the Brandon Ingram skill set on this team? And I think that's why he's kind of struggled. You know, who's on the other end of the spectrum, too, in terms of a guy who has a lot of ball skills could have had a Brandon Ingram-like Fiva World Cup to date,

but has not, to his credit. Palo Bancaro. Yeah. Holy shit. Yeah. Just looks massive, imposing. his ability to take guys off the dribble, to work the handoffs, to be a big in this fluid system, again, without dominating the ball,

without taking a controlling role in the offense. He looks incredible in a way that, obviously we saw what he did in his rookie season. He could be that guy, and he probably will be some version of that guy for the magic going forward for a variety of reasons. But what makes you so bullish on the idea of him and Franz Wagner together long term, him and Anthony Black together long term, him and other ball handlers on the floor long term is this kind of play. He can morph into this kind of guy when you need him to.

And the fact that we're seeing those sides from him this early, incredibly promising sign for Bankero in his NBA career. Yeah, you know what's interesting, man. And again, shouts to Coach Spoe and Coach Spur because I think some less imaginative coaches would have been like, yo, we got to play this guy next to a center. Instead, they're just like, yo, he's going to be a slightly tamped down version of Amari Stademeyer at center.

And it's just incredible to watch where, you know, these European bigs who, let's face it, they're calling card isn't always lateral mobility. You know, and... Just calling it out. Those are sacrifices that get made because Palo has definitely gotten battered and bruised on the other end by bigger guys who can just push them around, for sure. But then seeing Banquero and being like, no, let's...

let's turn him into a center in some of our lineups and just unleash him that way. And I like that he's making quick decisions. It's not jab, step, this, that. It's like, no, I'm getting the ball against the big, quickly driving, spin, moon, booming it on him. Or driving, drawn extra help, kicking it out because he's such a skillful player in that way.

And so, yeah, that's been really, really cool to see, just to see the Swiss Army knife ability of his offensive game, right? Because I think, you know, he's already, shown that like if you put like a smaller wing on him, he's going to bully that guy to death. And, you know, him flashing that footwork, that, that, that quickness and that burst against plotting Biggs. That's, like I said, that's, that's really cool to see. I think Halliburton has sort of found his stride a little bit there.

I know me and you were kind of, Halliburton stands, especially last year in the earlier portions where he just looked incredible. Poised for a big year, too. I think with what the Pacers have, this could be a really fun help. Really nice year for them. Yeah, Jaron Jackson has looked great.

Yep. It's just been cool to see, man, these guys come together and coalesce this way. And yeah, it was just fun having the conversation in Stockholm because when you think about somebody

like Michael Porter Jr. And what he's making and what Austin Reeves is now making on his second deal. The Michael Porter Jr. Slam. NBA champion Michael Porter Jr. He's taking some shots on this pod. His thing. I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. He's a very good player.

His thing. He's a very good player. But he's paid like a player who if you let him anchor an offense, he could do it. That's not my, that's Dan Cronkey's problem. And there is no indication that he can do that. And we know that in the future, he's going to want to prove that he can't. Okay. Like, we know that to be the case. And, you know, in the hypothetical that we somehow traded him for Austin Reeves, I don't think, I think what Reeves does is so redundant with what Yokic is already doing. Yeah.

For Denver that I think Michael Porter is actually a better fit for the current team that he's with. I'm just saying in a vacuum, most people would say that Michael Porter Jr. is way more talented and better at basketball than Austin Reeves. And I don't know that I agree with that, especially given their salaries. The salary bit of it complicates it for sure. In terms of pure basketball ability, you're talking about one of the best shooters for his size,

at least so far, in documented NBA history. The percentages are there. NBA finals, notwithstanding, that was kind of a tough shooting stretch for him. But again, it's the difference in a player who can do things that other guys can't. And Michael Porter Jr., because of his size, of how he shoots and the guys he's matched up with

is uniquely valuable in ways that Austin Reeves is not necessarily. But it's all about that fit. It's all about those elements. And I think it's interesting with the Team USA side of this too. I'm very curious to get your take on this, Wazz, as someone who, look, you're invested in the future of American basketball, in the health of the sport. Of course. And we do go through stretches where we see the team EOSA, whether it's in the Fee World Cup or in the

Olympic competition, and this year included, the half-court offense for Team USA, not always inspiring stuff. When it is fluid in the ways we've described, when everyone is moving and buying in and everything is connected, it's working, it looks great. But there are times where it does look stilted and disjointed. And I think especially, you know, Team USA hasn't played a murderer's row of competition so far. They're just getting out of the first phase of group play. As the defenses they play are going to get better and better. I do worry about that and the fact that like year after year after year in competition after competition after competition, Team USA basically has to win in transition to like really

take a strangle hold on some of these games. So to me, that's just a function of not having a single one-on-one killer on the entire roster. Even Aunt Edwards, who we love, we don't think he's at the level of Devin Booker, say, in one-on-one scoring. Sure. I think if they possessed one person who could do that, the half-court offense would just be different.

If teams felt like they had to send two at one person on this team, then everything would open up behind that. I think that's just a function of not having a Kevin Durant type, a Devin Booker type, a Steph Curry type, you know, Prime LeBron type, who you just simply cannot deal with one international. defender. And so, yeah, they got to, it's going to get bogged down in a lot of ways when you can't just force, you can't bend the defense to your will with one guy who will absolutely murder

single coverage, right? And to me, that's just what that function is. As much as I love Halliburton, much as I love Brunson, as much as I love a lot of these guys, Brandon Ingram, who's supposed to be some one-on-one, you know, aficionado. They're really not the A-plus-plus level one-on-one guys that say a Luca Donchich, Shea Gilgis Alexander is. Like, you just see it with Shea. He is the apex predator one-on-one type of attacker. And we've seen it. When they try to single cover him in this tournament,

he absolutely destroys it because he just can't be stopped with one guy. Or there's no one guy on the teams he's playing against that can credibly defend him, right? in a way that the team can live with. Team USA doesn't possess a guy that's at that level right now, and I think that's what we're seeing. I don't mean to concern troll about it. USA is probably going to win.

Their closest competition in the tournament overall are basically the guys you just laid out, like Canada, who's pretty stacked, Bionche, like a really good roster. Slovenia with Luca. Spain doesn't have like the standout NBA guy. It's like, you know, Rudy Fernandez is still rolling. It's the greatest hits of the Spanish national team,

plus like the Herni Gomez bros. You know, Germany is pretty good. Like there's some teams, Australia is pretty good. There's some teams that are competitive and competent. But really, I think it's Canada and Slovenia. They're going to be, are going to be tough. And to some extent, Spain, I just get a kick personally. Even watching, you know, USA's running up the score in some of these games,

even with all of their, their quote-unquote issues or whatever problems we may project onto them, it's just a little funny to watch some of these international teams in competition after competition running like Hoosier's ass high post passing and just like making stuff work with whatever guys they got. I appreciate whatever it is that they're doing to get to this point because there are times where the USA feels

like they're kind of running through mud a little bit. And once they break out, once they get out of that, they crush teams. But there are those stretches of basically every game. Yeah, and it's one of those things, Rob, where like, these guys are human.

They understand where their pressure points are. It's like, yeah, we have an ability to talk. turn on a defense that turns the hell over, turn people the hell over. Like, you know, at the end of the day, we can put our heads down and try to bludging people in the pain, get to the line. Like, it's going to be dirty stuff. It's transition.

It's getting to the line. It's offensive rebounding. It's like the nasty stuff on the margins that, you know, never make sports center. But that's how you make up your deficiencies in the half court. You have to do these other things. And then they have enough shooting that, like, if the three ball is falling at each, even a decent enough clip. Like, I think their offense is good enough

when you add in these other ways that they can chip, chip, chip away and not having the most pristine sort of offense, right? And we talked about it all the time in the playoffs. Like, the reason why Denver's offense is ridiculous, they have a guy you can't single cover. And he's willing to pass it to everyone. Like, you add those two things in.

It's like, all right, this is the foundation of, you know, effective offense. and they just don't have that guy and they find another ways to do it. So the go-to superstars of the Fibah World Cup so far, I think in some order, 1A, 1B, Luca and Shea. Yeah, easy.

1C, Rondea Hollis Jefferson. Oh, my God, dude. This is the weirdest story in sports. I, okay, to those who are not up on this story, Rondea Hollis Jefferson One to honestly Not in the NBA that long ago I think he was in 2020-21

That he was last in the league Basically as like A forward like combo defender Sometimes he'd be like a small ball Was he a part of the culture nets He was part of the culture nets Very important to the blueprint You know like hard nose guy

Digging it out the mud All of a sudden he looks like Kobe Bryant and he's playing for Jordan. No, but he looks like Kobe Bryant. That's the... Yeah, one looks like Kobe Bryant. Like, is in full Kobe Bryant uniform. He's wearing his number.

Yes. He's strategically placed the armband on his forearm like Kobe. Obviously, he's wearing Kobe signature sneakers, which a lot of people do. But he's shaved his head. Shave the head, yeah. Like Kobe, he's got the light goatee. Like Kobe, which full disclosure is a goatee that I... I often mimic in my own personal look.

Wow. And definitely inspired by Kobe. And he's playing like Kobe. He's getting him shots up. It's mama mentality taken to an extreme that I've never seen before. It's real like dress for the job you want energy, right? Like if you just put on the uniform and the arm band and shave your head and honestly, like, mimic his mannerisms, like the way he carries himself, the free-thruiting. He's doing the Kobe fist pump after big shots.

Yeah. And he's getting the crowd response, you know, or at least was getting the crowd response. We should say, Jordan has since been eliminated. But before they were, Ron to Halas Jefferson, a guy who got bounced out of the league systematically, was the third highest score in the entire World Cup field. Did you have 40 in a game, right?

40 in a game, a four-point play to tie it at the end of regulation, like had some sensational plays. And Wahas, I am just freaking. mystified. We had no indication that Rondea Halls Jefferson was capable of literally any of this. And I don't think we even have indication now that he's capable of it in the future. But within these precious weeks, we lived on a different plane of existence where Rondea Hollis Jefferson was apparently Kobe Bryant. And I don't know how we got here. I want to shout to my man Brian Winhorst who wrote a story about this for ESPN.com. Apparently, like, he just literally did like a life reassessment as he's playing in Puerto Rico.

because he got bounced from the league. And he's always idolized Kobe. He grew up around, you know, in the Philadelphia suburbs, just like Kobe did. Obviously knows a lot of people who was around for the Kobe run over there. And just, you know, just looked up to Kobe his whole life. And he's decided to dedicate himself to his game in a different way. And, yeah, like you said, he was this lunch pail guy, sort of scrapper kind of guy while in his time in the NBA. and now he's dropping 40 in Fibah and Fibah games.

Unlike mid-post work. Again, a skill set he never showed in the NBA, or at least never had the chance to show. Just crazy. And you wonder if he, I really hope he gets a second look, man. I hope this guy lands on an NBA roster somehow because of what he's done to transform his game. While this is fascinating to me for two reasons.

It's one, Kobe, even when he was alive, had an, like, insane cult of personality around him. Not just in L.A. where he's, before he died, he was a deity, like straight up. And subsequent to that, even more so, of course, with good reason. Like, I get that. But also within the league, just the amount of players who count themselves as Kobe adherents, disciples, acolytes, whatever you want to call them. There's a difference between being a Kobe acolyte and making your admiration of Kobe your whole personality.

Well, okay. But this is the other part of it that I find fascinating. Kobe did this exact same thing to Michael Jordan. Oh, 100%. You know, like Kobe, like we all remember the Afro Kobe. Kobe was bald his rookie year. He was 19 years old. He wasn't balding.

He was bald because of Jordan. He was literally, he literally did this to Michael Jordan when he was younger. Like the post moves, the footwork, the fade away, the way he talked. Literally like his interview style, how he comported himself in front of the media. That was, that's like the sort of full circle meta, like crazy part about this. Like he's doing this to somebody who had also once done this with Jordan himself. And then eventually, of course, Kobe as his career went on, he became Kobe. He became himself.

He was no longer doing some like Michael Jordan cosplay. To his credit, he forged his own path. he's become this distinct person in the NBA. But, like, again, the reason why this isn't all that. It's trying to see. It's weird. It's definitely weird. But also, like, when Kyrie Irvin is like, after we won the championship,

my first phone call was not to my father or my mother. It was to Kobe Bryant. Like, this is the type of devotion that Kobe has sort of been engendering for years now. Right. And so this is just taking to just a new extreme. That's just like, wow, bro. You could have just wore the number and kept it pushing, honestly. That's the thing.

And I have to say, like, I know you and I sometimes share a passion for looking at the people who are obsessed with Kobe sideways and do the Kobe cosplay a little sideways in certain ways. I will say what Ronde has done here beyond just the uncanny nature of it. It's genuinely kind of inspiring. Like, he got the shot with the Jordan National Tim McKeown. again, like the sovereign nation of Jordan, not Michael Jordan,

got this chance with the national team, put up huge numbers, was operating in a way he never did before. It has me rethinking a lot of things about my life. And, like, I don't know what the podcasting equivalent of this is. Like, what could you, what could you accomplish as a podcaster if you rededicated yourself and became the next Joe Rogan?

Well, I mean, I'm thinking a slightly different lane, you know, like, can I get the glasses, shave it down? like, can I be Chris Ryan? Like, is that a feasible, attainable thing for me? Or maybe become the woman who does call her daddy. He's a podcast, Giants, Rob. I'm like, rededication.

Let's go. Okay. All right. Maybe I can be like, you know, what Christian Slater did to Jack Nicholson. You know, I just need, I need a model of some kind. Maybe there's a career pivot involved. I don't know. But I need a new model.

I'm on the lookout for people, apparently I can just pattern literally everything in my life after. And I need to find my person. Somebody please bring Rondea Hollis Jefferson into camp, into an NBA camp, because I want to see where this story goes. Please, for the love of God, bring this man in. It should be noted, he is, he does have a contract to play in the Philippines. Does have an NBA out. But the fact that he has a contract would suggest, like, probably unless there's guaranteed money involved, he's going to be there until that season culminates, but that season culminates in February.

So there's a chance for teams to pick him up down the line too. Bring them in in February, y'all. We need to see a resolution because they're going to make a movie about this if he ends up back in the NBA somehow. And so, yeah, we need to see this happen, man. Milwaukee Bucks, this is your 28-year-old waiver guy to pick up. Let's go. Do we have anything else, NBA World-related that we want to get into?

Not a single thing. And certainly nothing related. to any referee controversies slash potential forced retirement. Let's just keep on pushing past that one. Twitter. Nothing one bites the dust. All right.

That was our show today, man. Shouts to Kai Grady. Shouts to my man Ben Cruz on the ones and twos. More off-season stuff on the way. Although the regular season and training camps is slowly, surely creeping back in. It's August 31st. So the calendar turns to,

September, which is when you can start sort of stretching, you know, and getting ready. You just got to start your stretching. Like, we're not going to get into the home race yet of the regular season. But, yeah, you can start getting sort of ready for NBA stuff going forward, man. Again, shout to our guy, Justin Verrier, who's not here today, but he's here in spirit, as always. My man, Rob Mahoney, of course. I'm Wazzy Lamb-Bray.

We'll see you guys next time. Peace.