The Ringer NBA Show - Will Giannis Sign the Supermax Extension? Plus: The Suns’ Ceiling With Chris Paul. | Group Chat

Episode Date: November 25, 2020

Matt Velazquez of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel joins the show to discuss what lies in store for Giannis and the Bucks: Will he sign his extension? Has the franchise done enough to convince him that Milwaukee is a title contender (1:00)? Then we discuss the teams that made the largest moves in free agency since we last spoke and talk about the Celtics declining to make an offer for Myles Turner and what says about the current state of the center position in the league (41:00). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Jonathan Tjarks Guest: Matt Velazquez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to group chat, The Ringer's weekly NBA group discussion, where we always give thanks to the ugly media people. I am Justin Verrier, joining me today, Jonathan Charks. I don't even have that about me right now. Definitely not. No. Rob Mahoney, do you get the reference? I do. I thought it was a little uncalled for on Fred's part, personally. But, you know, also we kind of deserve it. And you definitely can't say that about the Milwaukee media, which is why we have one of their own today. joining us from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, Matt Velasquez. What's up, man?

Hey, glad to be here. Very thankful for the opportunity to join you guys. Yes, much thanks to be giving out here, especially if you were making $85 million. We're going to talk about Janice and Takupa with Matt, probably the biggest last question left in this offseason that lasted a span of five days, maybe seven. then we're going to get into some other questions based on what just happened. But first, we're going to take a quick break. All right. We're back.

All of the off-season stuff is done. We only have, what, a month, four weeks until actual games begin, which is quite this. I think teams have to report for training camp next week. Is that right, Matt? Yeah, December 1st. Great. So this should be fun. but we're still waiting on one or two things.

We might talk about the rocket situation again in the back app. But first, the big question looming over the NBA, what is Janus going to do? Matt, actually, first question, where is Janus? Have we heard from him? Do we know that he's okay right now? I mean, we've reached the point in the off season where I am looking at Janus unboxing a PS5

and trying to figure out if he's in his home in Wisconsin or is he in Greece still? Because he has been in Greece for a while now. He has a couple assistant coaches with him. But that's where we're at. I'm looking at grainy Instagram, PS5 unboxing videos to figure out where Janus is. And I think he's still in Greece,

but I'm not 100% sure. That could change at any moment. Yeah, just looking at the food on the table, what the light is in the room. It was weird because it also seems like he's more proactive on Instagram and social media than usual. Like he doesn't seem like a big,

but like I feel like I'm just shooting off the like hard work photos and like getting it done for the fam sort of thing. Well, what's even the point of getting a PS5 if you're not going to show it up on the gram, you know? That's true. Yeah. When I think that, you know, he might even just be trolling all of us. Like he went on Instagram live a few days ago, like we had to start a free agency.

And all he was doing was driving around in his car singing holy by Justin Bieber and Chance the rapper. And he had to know that everyone was going to tune in to watch to see if he was going to say anything important. And he's just toying with everyone's emotions because he can and more power to him for it. It's one of the great social media genres in the NBA of player driving around in their car singing and then everyone parsing the lyrics. Like I remember people doing this with Russell Westbrook. I can't remember what Taylor Swift song he was singing. Like, oh, what is the hidden meaning vis-a-vis Kevin Durant, vis-vis the thunder of this particular song?

it's an incredible thing we've got going here. But it always comes out. Remember the cupcake thing? Nobody got there for like two years. And then it kind of took a lot into the world. It's true. So Matt, seriously, though, where do you think Janus is in this whole decision

that everyone, literally everyone in the NBA is waiting for? Yeah, I think, you know, he's not necessarily in a rush. He doesn't have to be. He has all the leverage in this situation. He'll get a max now or he'll get it next summer. but I think that in the short term I think people are just waiting for him to come back from Greece

that they're not going to do the deal, not going to if there's a deal to be done if there's any signatures to be had, it's not going to happen until he gets back. And the bucks are comfortable with that. They're waiting from to be back. Obviously, training camp starts in just a few days on December 1st. So he'll be back pretty soon.

And I think at that point, Janus is the kind of guy where he won't want this hanging over his head. He won't want to be asked about this every single day. So I think he'll come out one way or the other and say either I'm staying in Milwaukee, I'm committing for the future, this is where I want to be, or he'll say, you know what,

I'm going to wait. It doesn't mean I don't love Milwaukee, but I just don't want to be a distraction all year. I think those are the two options. If I had to guess, it would be more likely that he would stay and sign the extension now, but I'm not in his head.

I don't know exactly what he wants or what he thinks if he thinks the bucks have done enough this off season and all of that stuff, but I think that if I had to lean one way, I'd lean stay. Yeah, we're at the point where these sorts of decisions,

probably the biggest ones in the NBA, where the star players go, ultimately just become like, as a reporter, you're probably just trying to mind-meld somebody or just like psychoanalyze them. I don't know if it was a reporter, a rumor or something,

but where teams were like putting together dossiers about, like, his wife, about, like, his friends. And it just really becomes just a very, very weird thing. He has, we should mention, until December 21st, to sign the Supermax before the season starts. That's the day before the regular.

their season starts. Rob, you wrote about this for us on the ringer earlier this week. What do you think? Do you think what the Bucks did this off season, which we can go through now probably, is enough to maybe keep him? I'm leaning that way just because it seems

like so much of the momentum of the reporting is leaning that way. And, I mean, it is interesting. You were talking about the mind melt, and that's not exclusive to the Bucks either. You know, there are reports going around that, oh, maybe Janus would be more impressed with the heat giving Bam on a bio an extension

and therefore think of them more favorably as a potential destination. Every team is going through these gymnastics. So trying to figure out what Janus actually wants and if they have a shot with them. Right. So just to clarify there, so Bam agreed to a Supermax extension yesterday, Tuesday,

which would cut into their cap space for 2021, though there are machinations where like they can get close or they could maybe work out a sign and trade. Just to lay out the details there. Matt, I'm actually curious, before we get into this, do you buy the whole thing about Bam and Yanis sharing an agent

and possibly Bam knows the deal what's going to happen? So they assign the agreement now. I mean, I could see it. I mean, I could see that, like, okay, Alex Saratis, you know, is the agent for both Janus and Bam? And maybe the heat would be like, okay, well, let's sign Bam because we've learned through channels, through maybe Saratis, something else,

that Yonis is going to sign. We don't have a chance for him. So let's just sign Bam. I think it's possible, but I think it also kind of is a stretch because if the heat want Janus and if Janus wants the heat, if that ever becomes a thing that's real,

it'll happen, right? Like, if you're like heat, you literally move mountains to make that happen. Like, if you have to then trade bam in a deal to get Janus, I think you still probably do it. I don't know if that's necessarily a situation they would want to find themselves in.

You know, so anything could still happen. But it is like, you know, part of the tea leave, reading that happened on Tuesday where, oh, BAM signed, like, what does this mean? What do they know who, you know, who is involved in this? And I kind of just tweeted like, hey, you know, BAM signed, hampers their cap space. Do with that what you will. Like, think about that however you want, because we can't get into the heads of everybody. But I mean, that is a distinct possibility. Well, and as we talked about many times on this pod, cap space really is kind of a state

of mind. You know, you really can move those pieces. It's not a big deal. And it always did seem like, you know, all things being equal, Janus always seemed like the kind of person who was searching for a reason to stay in Milwaukee. He was looking for the right team. He was looking for the right opportunity. I mean, if you give him enough of that reason, I think he's going to do it, you know, to be determined as to whether Drew Holiday, et cetera, is enough. Justin, you want to do the et cetera's? I guess these guys times, et cetera, after Drew. Sure. So the back of the envelope is Drew is in, DJ Augustine,

Tori Craig, Bryn Forbes, Bobby Portis, Eric Ledso, George Hill, Ersani Liyosov, Robin Lopez, West Matthews. I left out the Jalen Adams and the second round picks of the world, but those are the highlights, basically. So, Charks, where are you on just the net gain or loss of the bucks this all season? I think not getting Bogdanovich, to me, it makes everything about

Di Vincenzo. I think he's now like the piece because you have Drew at the guards, Middleton, Janice, Lopez, but who's that fifth guy going to be?

And I think the guy they have to really hope that keeps getting better is Di Vincenzo because they really have no other young pieces who could stand to kind of fill out the rest of their roster.

They have no great amount of room to add more players. They have literally no more draft picks to trade. This is their team for a long time. And so to me, like, he's the fifth guy. What happened to him at, Matt, in the playoffs?

Because he had a good regular season. He just totally fell apart. Yeah. He wasn't really good in the bubble at all. Like, he had a pretty solid, if not really good, second year, which was basically his rookie year since he missed so much time during his rookie season. But then once the Bucks got to the bubble, he just wasn't the same player. He seemed a little bit more hesitant, a little more unsure.

Just wasn't as impactful. I think that that Heat series, I think it took him two or three games to like really get up to the playoff level and the intensity that's required. I guess you kind of expect that when a guy is in his first playoff series and playing a kind of tenacious team like The Heat. I think it did bode fairly well. I think in games four and five, he started to kind of like look a little bit more like himself, make a little bit more of an impact. But I'm not sure what it was. I mean, that whole Bucks team didn't look like the team I watched for the whole season when they were in the bubble. Like, I know in the regular season bubble games, they didn't really have to do anything.

They didn't have to try or care. They were also, you know, very vocal about their stances on social issues and their interest in that regard. And that is worthy of applause, I think. But just as they're, in terms of basketball, they just were never there. And so I think Dante definitely fit into that and was kind of lost and kind of floating a little bit there in the bubble. But yeah, I think you're right, Charks. They're really going to need him to step up, whether they consider him their fifth starter or that is a role that maybe Bern Forbes plays. And then Dante comes off the bench and he can be a spark plug, maybe still play starter's minutes.

He's going to need to be able to continue his defensive impact, especially with his deflections, rebounds, all that stuff. but then also really up his offensive game and be more dynamic, be a better shot maker, because if he can continue his improvement that he has shown just from year one to year two, you know, they've kind of bet a lot on him. And he's one of the young pieces that they have that they can actually kind of grow with. Yeah, well, not to belabor the Dante conversation, but just it does feel like he is kind of the swing piece for this team now. If either he becomes this fifth starter in that lineup and especially,

in a closing lineup, or maybe they try to swing them into trade like they did in the original bogged-on construction. Rob, where are you on him? Like, is he the type of player who even fits what they need from that fifth spot? I think he definitely could be. And, you know, we've seen him be a solid all-around player. We've seen flashes of pick and roll play, of shooting, of slashing, really intuitive off-ball player. I think he fits. It's just a matter of that consistency, you know, always an issue with young players, really kind of figuring out a way to play at that playoff level of being that level of competitive. It's just a totally different world. And if he were on another team where he could be brought along more slowly where there wasn't so much pressure,

it might be a very different story in terms of how we're talking about him as a player. But when you're like the guy potentially holding back a Janus team because they can't figure out who their fifth starter or fifth closer is going to be, it's a lot of pressure on a guy like Dante. And it's only amped up by the fact that his contract is so small. and the bucks don't have a lot of movable salary that this is kind of what they got. You know, there aren't a lot of fungible pieces here. So, you know, Dante, they're going to be riding with him

one way or the other. The question is, is he going to be able to deliver? I would say, too, you kind of look at their roster. It's very much, this is no longer a deep team. It's very much process of elimination, right? DJ Augustine, Bryn Forbes, they're both very, very small ceiling on them. Tori Craig, we've watched him a lot in Denver.

He's just not a dynamic offensive player. That's just how it is. Pat Connison, I don't understand that, really. Like, somehow Bud thinks Pat Conn's like the best player in the NBA. That really blew my mind that they really made sure to get him. It also seems like they screwed up how they offered it or the way their cap worked and thus had to offer him more years and more money than they actually wanted to, right? Yeah, some of this player option or something, right?

Yeah, I mean, but again, good player. They need wings. They aren't really in a position to be bleeding them, especially after losing West Math. you've got to retain the talent you've got, especially if you're in their position. I guess if we're doing deep cut Milwaukee guys, the second round pick they got from Louisville, Jordan Naurah. He might be very important for them. He's a six-seven guy who can really shoot it. Not very athletic, but he's a smart player. That might be a guy just because they're so thin. They've got a press-in-in-play in big minutes right away.

Charks going with David Nora before we even get to True Holiday is such really good shit. While we hold off Drew Holiday, I mean, one thing I keep coming back to is, and Matt, I'm curious about your opinion on this, DJ Augustine's place on this team and specifically the tradeoffs in replacing George Hill with Augustine. You know, like a bigger, more proven defender

versus a guy like Augustine who can give you a lot of different things, but what they might lose in losing Hill defensively. I'm curious of your take on that. Yeah, I wonder what lineups are going to use Augustine in because he could theoretically play point and move Drew over to the two. And maybe that type of lineup might be ideal for Augustine because you will have so many plus defenders around him that maybe you kind of hide some of his deficiencies.

When you have Drew Holiday, you know, Chris Middleton, Yast de Acumbo, and Brooke Lopez on the floor with DJ Augustine, I think your defense is still going to be really good. But if they're asking DJ to run a second unit that's, you know, him and, you know, maybe Dante DiVincenzo, maybe Pat Conantin, Bobby Portis, Tori Craig, like, I don't know what kind of defense you're going to be playing at that point. I don't know if your offense is going to be that much better.

So the mixing and the matching of how things are going to go, because George Hill was able to take a second unit Bucks team that was definitely a lot deeper. And, like, they were a really good second unit. And he could lead that group and you wouldn't be giving up anything or all that much at the point guard position. So I think Bud, you know, who has liked to go 10, 11 deep in the past couple seasons, I don't know how he does that this year.

I mean, maybe he still does it in the regular season because that's just what they do and maybe they won't care so much about gunning for the one seed. But in the playoffs, I'm looking at this roster, like, yes, I think there is some like top-end talent, but I just don't know how you go 10-deep with this roster in the playoffs. It just doesn't make sense. It has made sense at certain times in the playoffs when Bud's done it anyway. So now it really doesn't make sense. Yeah, especially if you don't want to play Brooke Lopez,

if he's getting played off before, late in playoff series, or maybe if he continues the shooting 29% from three, like who knows what is the aberration right now with him? Like, where is that extra wing coming? And so they ended up fighting themselves in a situation where they didn't really raise their ceiling enough, but they kind of bottomed out a little bit in their floor

where they got kind of the worst, of both worlds, like, where if you're going to get Bogdanovich andrew, I get it because you're just going for this amazing five-man lineup. But without Bogdanovich there, you're really relying on the Tory Craigs of the world to really fill in there unless you make some move at the deadline, which I think is an important thing to point out. A lot of these teams aren't fixed, right? This is a Daryl Morey thing. You don't have to solve everything right at the offseason. You can get this at the trade deadline. But there are questions here. Oh, yeah, there's definitely questions. And I think that, you know, mentioning the trade deadline is kind of important because they kept

down to DiVenzo now, if they think he can be that key piece. And if he proves that he's that key piece, then maybe you keep him. But maybe if he's not, you move him at the trade deadline. You could package him with DJ Wilson's expiring, sorry, charks. Or maybe, you know, Conantin might look like an overpay now, but maybe that money helps you make a trade later by matching salaries. So there are options there. And I think, you know, you mentioned that their floor is, they're kind of closer to their floor now. I think they're still a little bit better than they were last year. I think they're more of a playoff team because if you

just cut this roster down to like eight guys that are situational fits for each playoff series, I think they're going to be a little bit better. I think Drew Holiday is just, you know, so much more of a threat offensively than Eric Bloodso was that if you took Drew Holiday

just put him on last year's team instead of Eric Blasso, what does that heat series look like? You know, if he was on that team two years ago, what does that Raptor series look like? You would expect that at least on paper that the bucks would have a better chance. So I think just by making that change in and of itself should elevate the bucks to, you know, potentially a higher level.

I think Matt made a good point, too, about kind of forcing Bud to play a shorter rotation. That to me is like the Galaxy Brain take here. It's like, we absolutely refuse to let you play more than seven guys. So we're going to give you seven players and that's it. And you have no choice in the matter anymore. He still does have some choice. I mean, we'll see if he, if he sticks with an eight or a nine or a 10 man when it counts, but I'm not counting out bud just yet in terms of rolling out some deep

rotations. Some of his favorite go-to guy, like Ersan, not there anymore. Kyle Corpard, probably not there anymore. Marvin Williams retired. So he basically got to keep Conitin, like, who's one of his favorite go-to guys. But everybody else is like, all right, well, they just don't fit anymore. Do what you want, but let me keep Conantton. Well, I mean, this is probably a good point to talk about Drew here.

So how much do we think he changes what they do here? Rob, you've looked at the team a little bit. I mean, we talked about it last week. In my point of view, like, Drew is great. I just don't know if he does enough different things, and specifically the different things that they need on this team. I've been an advocate for the Chris Paul signing over Drew, even though it gives them a more limited runway,

gives them probably a more dynamic ball handler, which is what, like, in my opinion, in the playoffs, is what they needed more. And I think the Chris Paul option would have given them a more direct line to a kind of half-court order that Drew doesn't necessarily do. He's a malleable player, a flexible player, which by definition means he's not the kind of guy who's going to put you into a set fashion to play. I think they can still win that way, though. I think they could still be the best team in these. I think they could still be the champions potentially because Drew puts you in a space where you can be a little bit more adaptive where the Eric Bledso Bucks felt like they were running headfirst into a wall.

a lot of times. And some of that was as simple as if you can't put a good pick and roll combo with Janus, whether he's the ball handler or the screener in play and have spacing around him, you're going to run into trouble in the playoffs against a lot of teams. And Drew at least gives you a little more complexity to that equation where, let's say even a defense goes under his, you know, if Janus sets a screen for Drew and defenses go under that, Drew has enough shiftiness to his game,

he has enough physical strength and size. He can kind of work himself into some mid-range positions, into some like kind of slow developing drives that Eric Bledsoe wasn't able to do. And to me, that kind of stuff is important, especially when you also have Chris Middleton, who can be a really high level practitioner in the mid range as well. All of a sudden, you have a team that's just a little bit more diverse. We'll see if, again, if Mike Boonehouser is amenable to that, it will lean on those things. And similarly defensively, if he's willing to be a little more varied in terms of what they do

versus just dropping a lot of the time. I think there's something here. It's not, again, not as exciting as if they had gotten Bogdanovich, too. but there's something to work with. I mean, to me, is Drew like the best third player in the league, right? Is it even close? I guess anyone else, I'm going to the rosters right now. Like, if everyone's third best player in every team in the league,

I think Drew is clearly the best, third best player, how it's taking out right now. Tough. I mean, I guess Shrear would be it for the Lakers. I mean, that's not even close. Who is it for the Clippers? Morris. The closest is probably Boston with Marcus. I think it's probably a Baca.

for the clippers. Yeah. I'm just going to the, I mean, I guess Portland is, it's now Covington, and you'd still give it to Drew and their top end isn't as good

as probably what the bucks have. Yeah, I guess so, but is it as simple as that? No, but that's helpful though. You know, yeah, Drew is definitely a good player. Matt, what is your just take on the Drew signing?

Like, do you think there's like something there? Like, Do you think that maybe Chris Paul was it age, you think? Or was it just something? Maybe just clashing of personalities. What do you think? I think it was just the money.

I think if Chris Paul was on true holiday salary, one, every team the NBA would try and get them. And two, the bucks would definitely be in that mix and trying to make that happen. I just don't think that there was enough room under. I mean, I don't know if they would have to hard cap themselves in that situation, but there wouldn't be very much wiggle room at all. matching salaries would have been pretty tough in making that trade happen. But I think that with Drew, I mean, Rob covered a lot of the high points,

but just having somebody just focusing on the shooting a little bit, yes, Eric Bledsoe can get to the paint and score in that way. Drew can do that too. They both do it in different ways, but they can do it. But in the playoffs, it's going to come down to who can shoot around Janus. And Bled basically only took pull-ups and catching shoots and wasn't good at them. It just wasn't something that he could do,

but Drew can shoot off the dribble, he can come around screens, like he can do it in multiple different ways. Not that he's like super, like, efficient as a three-point shooter, but at least he has those things in his bag. Like, he has things that teams need to respect and just having another shooter,

another shooting option on the court, it's going to make it so teams can't just wall up the paint like they did in the past two playoffs. And I think that's, huge for the bucks. The more space that Yannis sees and the more space that their other options see along the perimeter, I think it's always better for them in that situation. Can you explain what the Eric Wadsso playoff experience is like? Does he just enter a whole new

world? Like, is it just, is this looming in the background during the regular season and it just happens to come out in the big situations? I don't know. I wish I had a better understanding of like his mentality. But I think part of, of it, it gets harder in the postseason. Like, he's used to seeing, I think, wider lanes and more opportunities and teams maybe aren't expecting him to drive, or they're okay with him driving to a certain extent.

But in the playoffs, like, this isn't, you know, your fourth game of the week in a random road trip where teams are just kind of like rolling the ball out there and, you know, doing what they do. Like, every team is key on exactly what the bugs do. And they say, okay, let's just shut off Janus and make everyone else beat us. But in shutting off,

you're also kind of shutting off Eric Bledsoe. Because if you are blocking the paint and mucking it up and forcing other guys to shoot, well, that's not his game. And so I think when he keeps running into walls over and over again, and maybe he feels pressure to force things or

make things happen. And it just, you know, there's just like a negative feedback loop. And that's happened you know, multiple times. And it's hard to watch because it's someone who covered, you know, that team, you know, during those times, during those stretches and seeing bled, like, you know, he's good with the media. He talks to us,

all this stuff. But like you just, there's no answer. And it's also pretty easy to see that, like, they need him to be better in order to succeed. And it just wasn't happening. So, so Charks, you like Janus are a recent father. So we're going to put you in Janus's shoes here. So you're coddling your baby. You're looking over your free agency choices here or next season and what have you. You look at the lands. Is this team good enough, you think, in comparison to some of the other options that could be on the table? I mean, I guess every option is on the table when you're this good. Yeah, I think probably, like, kind of what Rob was saying earlier about cap space being

a state of mind. If you're honest, I wouldn't even look at it, like, who's available? I would say, who do I want to play with? And then they can figure the rest of it out, right? Like, I can set up play with anything so I want to. I can do anything. You know, it doesn't really matter. To me, it's just more about what does Janus want? And I go back to that a lot, you know, being in Dallas with Luca. And the more I think about it, the more I'm just not sure it's going to happen. Because I don't feel like Janus or Luca really wants to take a step back. Because like one of them has, it has to be their team, right? Like one of them has to be either the role man or the spot up guy. I feel like I do his thing. And I just wonder if you're

Janus, do you say, where do I maximize myself? I'm a two-time MVP. I'm not going somewhere where I'm not the undisputed guy. I'd more think about it, the more it seems unlikely to me. Well, Matt, you're around him more than probably anybody. Do you get the sense that that matters to him? Yeah, I get the sense that he wants to be a guy who stays his whole career in one place. Like, he obviously has seen everything that Michael Jordan has done. Yeah, I think he kind of idolizes that.

He idolizes Kobe. I think he looks up to Dirk Novitsky. He wants to be that kind of guy who spends his whole career one place when things get hard. We heard the quotes from the bubble. Like, you know, other guys go around the wall. I plow through it. That's really what he's all about.

He doesn't think that he should have to necessarily change anything or do anything differently. All he thinks about is how can I just work harder and be better to make this work? even if he could find a different route and maybe make it easier on himself. I don't think that that's how he's wired. He's wired in such a way where it doesn't matter how hard it is. If he works harder than he did previously, it's going to work out.

And so I think that that's why I lean that he would stay with the Bucks. But as I wrote even right, I think the day after the Bogdavish deal was reported, and we thought that that was going to happen. I immediately wrote like, hey, he's still not. doesn't have to sign. He can still wait to see if this team is good enough. And it's great if they're better on paper. He thinks they're better on paper. But are they actually better? Can they actually do it? So we'll see. Maybe he'll be willing to make the commitment now. But I can see how it might be in his best interest to wait and see if it actually works. The other thing I'm

curious about is, does he put himself in LeBron's shoes? I think LeBron would have fired buttonholes already. That to me is next up for Janus. like, can I avoid my situation and can I cut someone who I think is not good enough? Like, how loyal am I going to be versus can I be as like cold-blooded about this as possible and say, is this coach the coach I need? And if I don't want them, will I use my leverage to push him out? I think that to me, if you say it's Milwaukee is the next big question. I think it's going to be a while before we get to that point.

I think Janice is just such a loyal guy that when he has coaches, I mean, we saw it with maybe Larry Drew, but he was already just just so. young and just didn't really know what was necessarily going on. But we definitely saw it with Jason kid and we've seen it with Bud where, you know, he latches on and he believes in the coaching that he's receiving. And maybe in hindsight, he can look back on. Maybe that wasn't the best for me. Maybe I could have done things differently. But I think he's pretty loyal and maybe loyal to a fault at certain times. And I think everybody in Milwaukee's hoping he's really, really loyal. And he stays in Milwaukee for as long as possible.

Yeah, so the unique situation about this is while everybody's waiting for Janus, the main contenders who could pull them away from Milwaukee are starting to act like they have a chance, which seems pretty notable here. So we talked about the heat. This isn't one of the more common suitors for Janus next offseason, but this is Brian Winhorst who allegedly, I'm taking this like fourth hand from Aretipo, so take this for what you will. but he said that one of the reasons AD could be waiting to sign his next contract with the Lakers is to see what Janus does. So in theory he could like sign a one plus one. They all opt out. And then Janus comes in as the third there, which would be something.

And I always took note that Davis, when he created his list, which was, I'm putting in air quotes here, but his list in order to get out of New Orleans, he put Milwaukee on that randomly, which didn't make any sense at the time. but maybe he was playing four dimensional chess here. So you have that. But Dallas, Toronto, both of them maintained cap space for 2021. Dallas probably more aggressively. I think they traded Dilan Wright in large parts just to get off of that contract.

So I don't know. That is what worries me if I'm Milwaukee. We have two Dallas guys here. You get the sense, maybe sharks like that. Dallas really like wants this or you're just talking about Luca perhaps not having the right temperament to bring on someone like Janice but like Dallas as an organization would love for that to happen right? Well I mean obviously but I would push back against the sense. I think all their moves made sense on their face. Like I liked the lawn right but Rick Carlisle didn't. That was

over. Carlisle wanted him out of there. So like that really wasn't about clearing a contract much just getting him out of there. And same with Seth Curry for Josh Richardson. That was a good basketball trade to get a bigger and more a versatile defender around Luca. So yes, the Mavs open space, but those moves would have made sense if it didn't open space if that makes sense. Those are just basketball moves. Interesting.

Rob, what do you think about Toronto, though? Because they pretty much let Abaka and Gassal walk, which, and it seems like because they just didn't want to commit to a second year. Honestly, they would kind of be my gut feel pick for if Yannis was going to leave,

where would he go? And I don't even think the fit is that great as it stands now. You know, him and Siakum aren't really compatible pieces unless I guess Janus wants to be a full-time center. But there's something about the combination of the culture they've built that they've built there, the city of Toronto, Maasai specifically, and that connection and that relationship and how important that could be to Janus. There's something about it that makes a lot of sense to me. And maybe this is just like osmosis from Raptors people on Twitter seeping into my brain. But, you know, I look around at all these other options, whether it's Miami, whether it's Dallas, whether it's long shots like

the Lakers, Toronto just makes a little bit more cultural sense to me. Matt, do you have a sense of that relationship between Maasai and Janus? Because it's been talked about for a while. Yeah, I mean, I think that I mentioned Janus's loyalty, right? And somebody who helped get his family here is somebody who's always going to be special to Janus, you know, no matter what. It doesn't necessarily mean that he's going to go to Toronto or play from Maasai or anything like that. But that, that meant a lot to him. I know being around him that first season,

he was kind of subdued and quiet and really missed his family. He talked about that, but then when his family arrived, that game, it felt like a celebration. Amid a 15-win, awful bucks season in the dark confines

at the Bradley Center, like that felt like almost like a playoff game. Because Janus, his family was there. It was very celebratory. And he definitely perked up after that, and it changed. And so having his family around obviously means a ton to him and Messiah being part of the equation to gain them there, I think it's very meaningful.

I will say this. It's meant me anything. But I remember from the All-Star draft and Yonis goes, I think he picked Siakum both years. But then he said, my African brother, Seacom, I'm going to draft take him right now. So I was like, oh, interesting. These are the T leaves we need to read. The All-Star. His All-Star drafting was curious.

I'll say that. So maybe that's like you were talking about Jordan earlier and the Jordan comps there. So maybe like actually getting a bunch of guys who might not help them this off season, he doesn't really register because he has that Jordan gene of not being able to pick out guys. He actually just likes the guys that work their asses off. You may not be wrong there. He gets them pretty good every year in those drafts. Well, I mean, look at what Jordan does time and time again in Charlotte.

Like he just gets guys who he thinks like, well, just, just, He thinks that he just worked really hard and it worked out for him. And he doesn't realize that it doesn't work for Terry Rozier or Cody Zeller. There is not that extra gear there. Well, I guess since we're on the East, let's just talk briefly. The landscape kind of is pretty much set. Let's just assume Janus comes back. The Rockets don't make any trades.

The Wizards don't make any trades. Where are the bucks here? Are they a title favorite again, Rob? Would you put them in a tier below? me the Lakers. Yeah, I think the Lakers have kind of separated themselves, both by their performance in the playoffs last year, but also the additions that they've made. This seems like kind of a year overall where a lot of the contenders, as we knew them, have taken like a half step back. They've lost a critical piece.

They've lost a role player. They're replacing a lot of stuff on the fly. The Lakers are the exception to that. Of that next group, I think the Bucks are right there. I think they're the best team in the East if they want to be. And by that, I mean, if they're willing to be a little bit more flexible in what they're they run and they're willing to actually use the pieces they have to the best effect that they can, I think they're the best team in the East.

If they're not, I think they're at least on footing with a few other really good teams out there. To me, I just got to watch Kevin Durant play. I got to see him on the court playing NBA games. I mean, who knows, it's been so long. He had this massive injury. But if he can come back being Kevin Durant, then that changes everything. And I just got to see it. Yeah, that's the one, right?

Like, they just signed Joe Harris. You don't pay a guy who can barely dribble $70 million, whatever it was, not to really go for it. And I would say that the bucks have pushed themselves back into the morass of contenders with the nets, with the heat. It's just like all of a sudden everything seems a little bit closer. And like, I don't know. I think that's when like, if the margins are slim, I think that's when moves like August and some of these other ones on the fringes are going to make more. of a difference. Matt,

where's your feeling on this? You know, I feel like Toronto is close to the same, maybe a step back. Boston's pretty much the same, maybe a step back. But I've been really impressed by, by Philly.

I think that just having some organizational competence in bringing in Daryl, bringing in Doc Rivers, the trades that they've made already, like, that team is going to be better. I just,

I firmly believe that they have had one of the most talented teams in these, maybe not the most talented, but they've had one of the most talented teams in the East, and they've grossly underachieved. I think we can all kind of agree on that. But now they have a clear director

and a clear vision. I think that's just going to raise their floor, and they're going to be able to kind of ring out maybe even more of the talent from that group and more of the productivity. So I'm really interested to see. I mean, we've all been burned by picking the Sixers before

and believing in the Sixers before, But I think this is a year where they have all the pieces lined up to be a better team and be that kind of top two challenger in the east. Maybe with Milwaukee. Maybe they're the one two challenger that we thought they were going to be last year. But obviously now there's, you know, the nets have entered the fray and the heat and the Pacers are always going to be just around. And so there's a bunch of teams there that I think can be really good. The question is who actually makes the leap and separates themselves. Yeah. All right. Before we go here, Matt, any Christian Wood takes you got just stored away?

Oh, man. Because this is the podcast for them. You know, I feel like I do have some Christian Wood takes. I don't know how hot they are. I don't know how strongly I feel about them. I'm a little bit lower on him than other people. And I know a lot of people are high on him and he just got the bag. So very good for him. I think he's a good guy. I've always liked talking to him. But I don't know. It's just hard because I'm always coming at a situation where I'm used to watching a team with Janus. And so when I look at the guy who Janus is going up against being Christian Wood, I'm like, well, that's not much of a contest there. Like, Janus is just so much better. So in a game where a Janus team is playing a Christian Wood team,

I'm always going to see Christian Wood in a kind of more negative light. I think it's a great story the way he's come up. But I really want to see him prove it on a good team. because putting up numbers with the Pistons is great. But it's not the same as playing in important, big, meaningful games and being kind of, you know, more of the guy. He won't be the guy in Houston, but he's not to be a guy. And I want to see what he can actually do in those big, meaningful games and meaningful minutes. But Matt, what if it was Janus and Christian Wood?

There's the... Well, we had those opportunities a year ago or a couple years ago, and there, you know, people in Milwaukee called them the... the Woodlands. That was the group of Christian Wood fans. They were I love these people. Give me their email address. That's awesome. They were pushing so hard. I would just hear from the Woodlands all the time on Twitter.

Matt, why isn't Christian Wood playing? Like, what's going on? And I just look at the roster. Two years ago, that Buc team was really good. And so I guess, I can see why he wasn't playing. But other people, even amid like a 61 season were like, I still don't understand why Christian

They had the vision. All I'm saying is Christian Wood and Sterling Brown in Houston. Let's go. I mean, proven but wrong. So, you know, last year the Pistons were the new Bucks where they brought in like a whole

bunch of dudes in the Bucks. Are the Rockets now the new Bucks with Sterling Brown and Christian Wood? I believe so. And we'll see. Maybe those guys will be the fits. It didn't really work out for the Pistons. James Hardin might, James Hardin might chafe at the Bucks South designation, I think,

given his relationship with the honest. But maybe that's near the hearing or there. Sure. All right. Matt, thank you so much for joining us, man. Yeah, you bet. I really enjoyed being here. We're going to take a quick break and we come back.

We're going to talk about some more forward-looking questions on this off season. All right, we're back. And we're going to pick up where we left off, but where we never really left off because this is about Christian Wood here. We're going to look at some questions going forward from what just happened this past week. And I do want to start with the Rockets and with Christian Wood. what do we think about this move for the Rockets? In particular, Rob, like,

do you think this is enough to really convince someone like Russell Westbrook or James Harden that, like, we've got her shit together. This team's actually moderately functioning okay? I mean, to me, those are almost two separate questions. I think they've done enough to make a team that can have it shit together and be functionally okay, which I think is really impressive given the constraints that they had. I thought this was going to be a team that was locked into playing a lot of small ball, one way or the other that was going to have to get, you know, pretty creative in terms of

its center depth. And they did that. But more impressively than I ever thought they would, in terms of both wood and bring in DeMarcus cousins on kind of a flyer. We'll see how that goes. But I like the idea of it, certainly relative to the other options that were out there. This, I'm talking myself into it a little bit in terms of them being, you know, I don't think they're with the class of the West. You're officially a woodland now. I'm an emerging woodland. I'm talking myself. This podcast is now Woodlands. Like that's just, For the record. The woodlands, yeah.

Well, I mean, when you look at the core of that team, and they have the same problems, they still don't have, you know, a couple of wings short, potentially, like a lot still leans on whether Eric Gordon can shoot on a night-to-night basis. But I like wood there. I like cousins there.

You know, if Hardin is even just playing and not even that happy, they're still a really good team. He's that good. So it just depends on how they want to play it out. I don't know that they've done enough to change their long-term future,

but they could be competitive this season for sure. Sharks, what do you think here? Because I'm looking at the roster, and yes, Wood is a better upgrade at Center than I think they could have ever imagined. But do they even have any three types really left on this roster outside of Daniel House who has his own issues? Perhaps not basketball related. That was so fun. I remember right before it happened, he had this thing like, I'm really going to prove myself in the series. I feel like I'm one of the best players in the NBA.

And then like the next day, it's like, oh, never. mind. Yeah, it's tough, right? Like, the Lakers are still there. And now, you know, as Matt was saying in the last segment, now Christian Woods guarding Anthony Davis. And we're all in the woodlands, but that's probably not going to convince James Hardin to stand. It's just, it's almost an impossible hill to climb, right? If your goal is to convince James Hardin that we're going to beat the Lakers, like, what could you possibly have done? Right. As soon as the Western thing happened, you were kind of locked into who you are, they could be really good of Harden Westbrook decide to play

it's hard to see where they trade Westbrook That's everything too Where is Westbrook even go? Charlotte's gone Washington may not happen The other side of this is Washington Because the Ross for Wall swap Just doesn't seem like it's going away

And perhaps that's because finally The media had an opportunity to talk to Tommy Shepard, their GM about it And specifically he said There are no plans to trade Wall and that wall didn't request a trade. I don't know if he's playing the semantic games or what here because it seemed pretty clear that wall wanted out.

I think it's notable that that is still in the ether. It did seem like the kind of deal, though, that neither team actually wanted to do. It's just the kind of thing where you talk about it if you're the rockets and the wizards amongst yourselves because at some point you're kind of looking around the room And it's one of the only things that makes sense in terms of the salary, in terms of the players involved, and their injury histories and their issues in terms of fit and stuff like that. There aren't a lot of other suitors out there.

So I think they're going to be at the table one way or another kind of checking in with each other, checking each other's temperature. But, you know, I'd say Tommy Shepard did enough to kind of alter the conversation for now and quiet it down. But maybe revisit in a couple months and John Wall is no longer a wizard. So if you're Houston, here's one for you. Would you rather trade for John Wall or Blake Griffin with Westbrook's contract? Are we assuming Harden stays or no? Yeah, we'll just leave Harden out of it for now. Just like either way.

But like either way. Like what would you do if you're used, if you had to move for one of those two? That's probably two guys you could get for. To pair wood with Blake Griffin again, you're saying, to appease your true star. Let's go. Yeah. I mean, they have PJ Tucker still. So would it be doubling? up on assets. Can you play Tucker Wood and Blake Griffin altogether? And if you have so few really

good players, do you really want three of them to be in the front court? It'd be nice to change a pace for Houston. That's definitely true. To me, Griffin is the piece that makes sense with Westbrook. But if you're trading Westbrook, I think I'm more interested in Wall. Charks, you're the one who's pro pistons over here. You are singing the praises of one Jeremy Grant. So how are you going to break up a budding contender in the making up there in Detroit. I was singing the praises of him in Denver. I mean, I don't know what it's going to happen with him in Detroit. I do like the way you kind of box Charks into that corner.

They're just like forced him to defend the Pistons off season. It's some devious stuff, Justin. I have to say that Charks' Jeremy Grant take would, like, definitely stood out amid all the morass of transactions and other takes getting off. Like, everyone I think widely agreed that maybe Mantras Harrow wasn't a great fit for the Lakers and, you know, Gordon Hayward's contract, easy to bang on that.

I've looked at Jeremy Grant's contract. I was like, why the hell is this guy making $20 million to find out that he actually doesn't have a higher ceiling that he should probably just stand in the corner most of the time and shoot threes? And Charks is out there right. Like, that is the difference in the title raise. And that's why I love Charks.

Well, I mean, I'm saying more from Denver's perspective. Also, Justin, be more positive. Don't be putting Jeremy Grant in a box. I'm tired of this. Let the man have his fun. So do you think he could be something more than he is in Troy? Probably not, but I think he should try it. The other thing,

if you're Jeremy Grant, like, why not? You can always be three and D later. He's only 26. So, like, if you can do it in 29, what's the hard part about like, why not do it now for a couple of years? Then go be in a box when you're older. What's the difference? I would say it's refreshing because most of the time,

I would say 95% in the time players in that situation would go toward the winning situation. because that's all players want to say. Like, even if they don't think it, they're going to say, I want to win. I want to win. And Jeremy Graham, maybe he thinks he can go and build a winning culture in Detroit. But, like, you got on some level know that, like, this is me getting mine, right?

See, Justin, I'm not sure. I feel like young guys in the NBA are more interested about getting theirs than winning. And I think that's the right attitude to have. I think when you're young, you want to prove yourself, make money. And then you win in the back half of your career. I don't think when you're young, you should put yourself in a box to say, I can only do two or three things. Is that the Charks plan?

Always. Young at heart. But I mean, Jeremy Grant is a young guy still. I think it's easy to forget because he's been in the NBA a while, but he's 26. I'm all in favor of him getting whatever opportunities he wants to pursue. I can't say this is going to go great for him if you're asking him to create all of a sudden a lot of offense for himself. But try it out, see if it fits. And if not, he'd still be valuable to some other teams down the line like Charks was saying.

Well, what was he, Charks, you probably have a better read on this than anyone. What was he even when he came into the league? Like, was he someone who, something happening at Syracuse, but he had this really great talent and upside? He just needed to lock into it. Or is what he's done even up to this point, like kind of a revelation? It's pretty remarkable. So the thing with him coming out of Syracuse, so he's a guy stuck in his own, he can't shoot. So I was like, well, it is.

He's some, like, six-aid guy who can't shoot, who's never played man defense. So what could he possibly be? He develops to a man defender. And he becomes a good shooter. Like, that never really happens. He shot 23s in college and didn't shoot free throws well. And over like four or five years, he painstakingly at became a good shooter. And then obviously, you know, when you have this kind of physical tools and you become a shooter, you become a very, very valuable player.

And you just keep adding things to your game from there. No, I will say, like, I don't really understand the Detroit Pistons off season. I don't understand giving Plumley the deal. that he got, I don't understand stretching and waving certain guys that they got in order to open up the cap space in order to sign Mason Plumley, that will never make sense to me.

But I have to say, as I'm looking at their depth chart, it's not awful. We bagged on them for bringing in so many big men, but as I'm looking at it, if you're playing Plumley at center, Isaiah Stewart, you don't know what he is, he's your backup, maybe you send him to the G-League for a while.

Oka-Four is like a flyer at best. it makes some sense as long as you think that Blake is going to play four and the biggest question in my mind is if Jeremy Grant is a three. Like do we think that he could

really fill that role? Well, I think the clowning was a little overstated for just that reason. It's the misunderstanding that Jeremy Grant is conceiving of himself as a three and was just really effective for the Nuggets as a three. And so once you get into that frame of mind

like there were a bunch centers who cycled in and out, but it's not really different than a team drafting four centers in a draft, but all of them get traded away. There's just a lot of cycling that's been going on in Detroit. I think it's a little cluttered for my taste personally, but if you're Jeremy Grant and you want to stretch your wings in this way, go for it. As for the business perspective on what they would see in Grant, they would justify that. That's kind of where I get caught up. There was nothing in Jeremy Grant's game that to me screamed, this is a guy who, needs the ball in his hands more to create,

to be an active participant in the offense in that way. As a cutter, as someone playing off of other great players, I think he's really effective. But I don't know how they would see him in this role and think that's the guy we want to spend $20 million a year on. Yeah, and that part may or may not work, but also worth pointing out, the lottery rules have changed.

There's no real point in bottoming out anymore. The number one or number two picks are usually, it's pure luck. You can be the eighth word. team or the 10th worst team and still get that pick. So really, you're just trying to put culture guys around your young players. And

so Mason Plumley, for example, right? He's a very good culture guy. He was important to Denver. Yeah, I mean, he helps a lot with the Denver guys. When did this happen? Like, I would like a list of who is a good culture guy and who isn't a culture guy. Does it mean that, like, they just take them out for lunch. It means they talk to reporters,

Justin. Yeah, exactly. That is the difference. We'll send you the memo, though. We have the whole running list of culture guys. We just didn't CC you on it initially. Yeah, I don't think I'm in the BWA anymore, so I might not be on the list serve. We have votes for these things. It's true. But I mean, my concern with the, like, Charks, I think you raised a great point about surrounding your young players with a good culture, and that's clearly kind of the motivation here. I wonder, though, after you just draft this really enticing guard prospect, and you want

to see him grow and you want to see him develop, is this like an R.J. Barrett 2.0 in terms of we're now going to clutter the floor a little bit too much. We're now going to have too many guys who are taking the ball out of, out of Killian Hayes' hands. What is the plan for development there is something I'm very curious to see them chart out? Well, I mean, how many guys, their centers can shoot, but Blake can shoot, Grant can shoot well enough. They brought in Wayne Ellington.

I mean, they don't have that. It's not like the Knicks. No. It's probably not that bad. But some of those are like Jeremy Grant can shoot, but a lot of that stuff was created for him again, off the dribble, not quite the same kind of player. Blake Griffin has shot well at times,

has kind of bottomed out in terms of his three point efficiency at times. There aren't a lot of reliable shooters there, Ellington aside. And, you know, Derek Rose is potentially back as well who can't shoot some nights, can't shoot other nights, and it's going to want the ball.

So there's just, there's a lot of kind of, that's a team being pulled in a lot of different directions that if I'm kind of focusing on my young prospects, I would want a little bit of a cleaner look. Yeah, this is probably a good point to talk about the center market in general, just because I feel like one of the major trends or just takeaways from what just happened over the weekend is it seems like big men once again are still getting paid. And at the very least, they're just like, they made up most of the splashy transactions in this market.

Harold, we mentioned, Abaca, Aaron Baines, all of these guys. Mason Plumley, apparently is involved in that mix as well. but I thought what the Celtics did was super interesting because the reporting suggested, and I think there are enough reporters who have said this at this point, that they did not want Miles Turner. And my question with them is, so they turned around and they signed Tristan Thompson for the mid-level exception, which was about half of what Miles Turner makes per year. My question is, do you think that might have been because they don't believe in investing in the center position as much? or do you think they just don't like Turner?

And if it's the former, are they doing things right in the way that a lot of other teams aren't? I think worth pointing out for as much as we talk about the center is getting paid, all the guys listed got mid-level deals except for Christian Wood, the Woodlands.

Everyone else got a mid-level. Montres, Plumley, Baines, Surge, Thompson, they all got $8, 9 million a year. So it wasn't like anyone's breaking the bank for these guys. Let's talk about the Celtics, actually. I kind of think I like what they did almost

in the sense that their roster's cleaner now. Everyone has their role, right? I thought they probably couldn't bring back Hayward at this point. Now we know he wants a bigger role again. That wasn't going to happen in Boston. Now you still have smart Tatum Brown. That's an awesome one, two, three on your wings. No, but it is, I mean, it's fascinating that they essentially turned down the chance

to get Miles Turner for free. You know, assuming that Hayward is amenable to a construction that would have sent him to Indiana for whatever. ever money, you know, that you would look at that and say, again, as Justin laid out, Tristan Thompson at his figure, Miles Turner, his figure, given Turner's contract goes one year longer, to actively just kind of turn that down and lose Hayward for nothing, that's, that's a bit of an indictment, I think, of Turner's game. And I think they are, a lot of teams are low on him. He's a guy who opinion varies really wildly in the league in terms of what people think he can do, because

he's in that range of big where if you don't trust his shot enough, he's not doing a lot for you offensively that really can make him interesting. They can make him playoff viable. And so really opinion, it kind of comes down to that on what you trust to him to do with his shot and off the dribble and things like that. Clearly, Boston is on the lower end of that spectrum. And I mean, not a great look in terms of what Indiana's future trade value could be for him as they try to resolve the Turner-Sabonis stuff. Yeah, with Turner, you got to ask yourself, if I go small against Miles Turner, what am I really losing, right? I got, that's fine. And then if you're going bigger, I know he's

really struggled against Joel Embed in the past. The numbers are really shocking how badly Embed. So he's kind of like stuck in the middle where smaller teams can go small against him. And he's not really a guy who's going to bang with an Embed or even an Anthony Davis maybe. And like, what's he really, if he's going to lose the matchup either way.

That's a good way to put it. I mean, not, and it's not just Embeddner's kind of a sneaky, not great post defender in general, even against sub and B level post players. That's surprising to me though, because you look at them on paper and we always say, like, where do we find the stretch fives? Can we just get a guy who protects the rim stretch five? We have so many of these power forwards who are centers sometimes and you just need

to protect them in certain situations or you need to not clog up your spacing. And you would think on paper that Turner is the perfect guy there. But see, I would say regular season stretch fives are important. Didn't we just watch Miami bench our stretch fives in the playoffs and become awesome all of a sudden. It's a great point. I mean, did Myers-Lennard make $9 million as well? I guess that's just the going rate for any center at this point. Well, that one I think is more explicable because to me, that $9 million with a team option attached screams trade fodder. That's like we're filling, you know, you're in a fill in rotation to start the season. And if we need to trade you in

a potential, say, Yonis deal, then you're, you know, fill on that deal out. God, it is so good to be a marginal NBA player right now. There are so many guys that just get paid in order to just like be a cap hold or to just be like a number on a spreadsheet in order to change. So the big example of this is Darius Miller in New Orleans literally got, I think he had an, is it ACL tear or Achilles. Achilles. Achilles. Jesus. He had an option for seven million this year. In order to make the math work on the big Stephen Adams trade, he had to have that guaranteed. And so he's now making seven million just to go like potentially sit in Oklahoma cities like, waiting room for a couple weeks maybe.

Like, that's unbelievable. But that brings me the Adams. I do want to bring him up because he's probably the best example of what I'm talking about here. So the Pelican not only took on, God, I think it's like, I think it's, so they extended him two more years. So I think in average, he's going to make $21 million over the next three years in each of the next three years.

So he is an example of someone like, he's already breaking down a little bit. He's 27. I can't believe he's only 27 years old. That was shocking to me, but he seems like the exact opposite of what we're talking about with Turner. And I'm like, I'm a little confused as to why you'd put him specifically next to Zion. Well, especially because we have been talking about Turner as a New Orleans trade target, like that exact kind of player. For years. For years.

And they go in the complete opposite direction with someone like Adams who, I like Stephen Adams as a player, but you have to acknowledge what has happened to him over the last couple of years, both in terms of health, in terms of offensive. effectiveness in terms of defensive mobility. Huge questions for a team that, I mean, for one, can't afford huge questions at the position of who are we going to put in the front court next to Zion? It is funny. Like, everyone talks about, oh, you've got to have shooters around Zion. Right now, their starting lineup is Eric Bledsoe, Lonzo, Lonzo, Ball, Brandon, Ingram, Zion, Stephen Adams.

They're definitely ziggin right now, for sure. I got to say, I do love the idea of keeping Eric Bledsoe, if only for now. Because all we, I mean, we just talked about this. He's definitely a floor razor. He's probably not a playoff ceiling razor. And that's what the pelicans need right now. They need to just have adults in the room. I'm not sure based on our previous discussion with Matt,

like maybe Eric Bledsoe is the right adult for them long term. But like they're going to be better with those veterans around. They've all of those guys have been in winning cultures. Stephen Adams, you would imagine was kind of a rock for those thunder teams, especially in the post-Arant era. And so I like it. I like the idea of,

getting adults in the room, specifically getting a bodyguard for Zion as he kind of like just explores the wonders of his own body, you know, just like, what can I do? Do I go on a treadmill one day? Do I not? But it's curious. We talk about shooting so much. And it just feels like they maybe overcorrected a little bit with Stan Van coming in and like all the defensive concerns that they've had over the past couple years. Well, but shit, that team can guard. Like if Brandon Ingram is his is kind of at his pesky best. And you have Lonzo and Eric Bledsoe in the back court. If Stephen Adams is at least a little bit more mobile than he was,

Zion is a long-term project in terms of defense. He has a really long way to go, but could be really good. But just the physicality of that group, the length of that group, I can see where they're going defensively. It's just, again, the question of how you're going to actually space the court well enough to score or anything. Yeah, you're going to have to get stops and run. That's going to be their identity is like they're going to have to score in transition

because half course is going to be tough. Yeah, I mean, they didn't clog the team with guys who need the ball. I mean, that's a concern we had going into their offseason where Brendan Ingram, they just signed a max contract. You're going to want to just continue to feed him. You're going to want to continue to feed Zion. I'd like them to see if Lonzo could still be something more than just like an offball shooter with his weird mechanics and like what he can really do.

Like he really has an opportunity here to maybe unleash whatever is still lurking within him. Just quickly on Ingram though, because he's one of the many guys that signed a max contract. Is there anything that stuck out from those deals for you guys? Just because the big discussion, this is probably a little deep cut nerd talk, but I believe it was Mitchell and Tatum got player options in their fifth year, which is unique in recent years because if you're going to sign this early, the tradeoff for teams, it said, is to get the full five years. so you're not dealing with free agency sooner.

Is that a concern, I guess, or are we overthinking this? I mean, I think it was interesting in that there seemed to be kind of an impasse, at least like some kind of joint agreement among teams, whether formal or informal, that like this is kind of how we're going to approach this with our young players and trying to keep them on our teams, that we're not going to put that option on the table. So the fact that that dam has broken, it's only a matter of time before that becomes standard operating procedure

for the best players in the NBA. For the next guys up, getting that option is going to be exactly what they ask for, first meeting. And it makes sense from the perspective

of that's what the best players in the NBA are doing now, giving themselves the optionality, finding their ways out if they need it. But, you know, hopefully you don't have to kind of pull that,

pull the parachute, pulled the, what's the metaphor? Is it a cord? Yes, pull the rip cord. Rip cord. We got there. That's it.

We're keeping this. Keep going. That's all I got. Don't have to pull the ripcord. Don't pull the ripcord. Charks, are you pulling anything? I mean, once, yeah, I think Rob had it right. Once one guy got it, why not everyone get it?

And when you're a team like Utah or Sacramento, you kind of got to let them do what they want. Well, I mean, BAM, I don't think got the fifth year as a player option, right? So I think it might just ultimately be a Mitchell- Tatum situation. And I'm a little surprised considering the Celtics have. so many good things going for them. I would expect this to be more of like a Fox situation where you're just like begging anyone to stay with the Kings,

which is like just a side tangent here. I think the Kings have probably taken that a little bit too far. Like I still don't understand why they didn't just match on Bogdan Bogdanovich and just hold them for an asset. And like even if you have to keep them around for a year, like it just seemed a little weird that they were willing to move on for him for nothing rather than just have a good player and have a trade asset. Go so Christmas pass, Justin.

When you pay Harrison Barnes $20 million, it just kind of boxes you in. It's true. Another team that lost out with the canceled trade, too, because they could have had Dante DiVincenzo instead of nothing. And if you're the Kings, you certainly take that position. But one thing about Ata Bio, before we move on from that situation,

I think Zach Lowe reported that it sounded like for him, the fifth year guaranteed versus option, was a bit of a transactional thing in terms of the heat's willingness to commit to him early versus, you know, make him play this out. He was willing to go five years guaranteed. So there's a little bit more

of a give and take for that spot. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, which makes the Celtics, this isn't all that more curious. Well, this is a good place to talk about going forward here. So which team do you guys think took the biggest step back

as a result of what happened here? are we just kind of ruling out the thunder here? Well, here's the thing. I feel like their roster, if they end up keeping Horford in Hill, they're going to be better than you think. I'm telling you, is it that much worse? Is it that much worse?

It's worse. The fact that you make this argument and then you're daggering me with George Hill and Al Horford, two players, I have staunchly defended over the course of their careers. I can't get behind it.

Mostly because the West is too good. So I'm going to put the thunder in their own category. They are willfully trading away everything that made them good last year. And that's what they should do, given their circumstances. So putting them aside, this isn't the biggest step back by do think it's the most meaningful step back is what we've alluded to earlier with Denver and Jeremy Grant. He was the guy they could not afford to lose. And they did. And they tried their best. They gave him equal money. They gave him every reason to stay. He chose otherwise. That's fine. But I'm just not sure how viable they're going to be

against the Lakers and Clippers without him. And that's the threshold at which they have put themselves. The nuggets are no good enough. You have to measure them against the best teams in the Western Conference. And without Jeremy Grant, I don't see them being there. Yeah, I would agree with that. And it's interesting to me, it speaks to the difficulty going by the third you're saying about with young players. That's why LeBron generally doesn't bring young players on his team. Because young players always want more responsibility. They have a hard time buying into roles. And it's hard to, like, build a young team that's going to stick together for the long haul. Because as as they succeed, the young guys want more and more responsibility.

So I'd agree with Denver. And I think that is like, that's the hard part about sustaining winning in the NBA, is that kind of balancing that line of we want guys who can be good for a while, but how do they stay happy in the roles? And that's very difficult to pull off. The other team I would bring up, so the Celtics are definitely, I think, in this mix. I disagree slightly with Charks was saying earlier. I mean, I guess if Gordon didn't want to be the fourth guy, it was never going to work out.

But I thought that he fit the fourth role pretty well there. And especially if they, I think they found something in the playoffs with that five-man lineup with Tyson. It would have been really exciting just to see that rolled back, if only for maybe a year. Maybe you hold on to him for a year and then you trade them later. The Raptors are one that's a little curious to me. So on the one hand, I think losing two cogs of your front court and your playoff winning. excuse me, your title winning front core is significant. Those guys have been rocks for that franchise for a while.

I do wonder, though, like, how much better is Marcus Saul at this point than Aaron Baines, if any? Like, Baines is, again, we're talking about age. That's surprising. Like, Baines is 34. I did not realize perhaps, like, the facial hair just covers it. Like, as someone in that realm, I can attest to that. But I think they kind of, like, acquitted themselves. Well, I look at this team on paper.

I think they have the potential to be worse, but I don't know if I can get there, especially considering just like organizationally. They tend to make like these things work. I will say this, kind of going back to the Miles Turner conversation, to me, Abaka and Gasol, if you go smaller with OG and Pascal up front, I'm not sure you're losing all that much against most of the NBA. And in fact, you're versatile and you're faster and more skilled, a lot of different positions.

So I think that's the move for Toronto. And I want to talk about Boston, though. I don't think they really got worse at all. I don't think Hayward there was sustainable. And couldn't you see Tatum and Brown getting better next year? They're both speaking about guys who are still very, very young. I think they'll both benefit from having more responsibility, getting a guy they didn't want there, put the ball out of their hands. To me, we were talking about, like, Drew is the best, third best player in the NBA.

I would say Marcus Smart's the second best, third best player. Like that three-man unit, Tatum Brown, Smart could wreck. teams next year. Kemba's your fourth best player. Sorry, Jess. This is brutal. Yeah, the public opinion, and perhaps even in Boston, is really flipped on Kemba here. I guess

maybe if he's just like, he's broken down, like that ankle never heals or what was it, ankle leg, I can't remember, but yeah, a guy who's diminutive and like just based all on, I thought of something's speed, it's going to be tough. But I don't know, man.

They just had, their marching for error is much slimmer now. Like, you don't have a Gordon Hayward you can just throw out there and potentially just raise your ceiling in the middle of a playoff series. Like we saw during, like, just the past couple weeks ago. I'm going to take the bold stance that Gordon Hayward is good and having him on your team makes it better. And as much, you know, all due respect to Tristan Thompson and Jeff Teague, who they brought in as well. But, you know, I'll take the Celtics team with Gordon Hayward personally. And I think Tatum and Brown could have still grown even if Hayward was on the team. So as we... I don't know. Because like,

did you remember when Woj had that really weird tweet about how Gordon was the most efficient player with a subpointer usage rate in the NBA like of all time? It was like... Was this in free agency? No, it was during the playoffs, but it was such an obvious little like dig. Like, that to me spoke to some like deep set at issues. Like Gordon Hayward wanted to be the man again. That's pretty obvious.

He took 30 million to go play somewhere else. Yes. To me, if you brought him back, like, I just don't see how that could have worked. I think there is something too, like having everyone accept their role. has some value to a team intangibly. And then it's a matter of, can these young guys, I think you can fill out a bench. I think Boston's the team, they have their draft picks.

Talk about a team that could make a move with the deadline. It's the Celtics, right? They're the one team that actually has future draft picks to make an easy move to get a sixth man in here. Well, they have like 30 recent draft picks just roaming their G-League in their roster at this point. They didn't have enough space. So, yeah, I guess if you believe in like the Romeo Langford's of the world,

like, yeah, maybe this is a good move. Maybe there's like, they actually have. I believe in Robert Williams, Justin. Well, they just buried him as their third center. Like, why do you, is Tristan Thompson that much better than Time Lord when he has his shit together? I got to say, if Time Lord doesn't play, all my Tillots takes her out the window. He must be playing more.

That's the key right there. All right. Well, let's talk about the other side of this. Who's the team that probably took the biggest leap here? According to Charks, it's the Celtics when they play Robert Williams. But, Rob, do you see any other team that made a. pretty significant leap here. I'm the biggest sucker in the world

because I'm going to pick the Sixers. And I just, I can't stop. I keep coming back to them every year again and again. It was the Dwight signing, wasn't it? That was really putting it over the top. Talk about a culture guy. But just, you know, a Sixers team that's healthier for starters

is going to be a lot better. But just a little bit of shooting goes such a long way with that team. And I think they've done just enough to really kind of catalyze what they already had. So in terms of like the top tier, the top tiers of teams, that's the one I think took the biggest jump.

And then in the lesser categories, you have teams like Phoenix and Atlanta that are going from outside the playoffs to pull position to be in it. We'll see depending on how injuries shake out and everything, but two teams that are looking pretty good in terms of postseason.

I'm going to say, for me, the big winner, I'm going to be biased. I think the Mavs are now in that top tier, to me. I think the set for Richardson trade was huge for them. I think that was the perfect basketball trade.

I think it made both teams significantly better. And now, like, if you're Dallas, you can start Richardson and Hardaway in the back court next to Luca. You're freaking huge. Luca, a year three, I think he'll be the MVP of the league this year. To me, Dallas could be the number two team in the West next season. It would not shock me. Did they bring James Johnson on just to fight people?

Or is he, like, can he still play basketball? Hey, when your best player gets, like, gets tow-trucked a bunch of times in a playoff series, You kind of need that. Yeah, I actually don't hate it. We were talking about that's who they needed last playoff series. There's like an every second or third season thing going on with James Johnson. I'm not sure where he is in the cycle. If this is a good year or not, we might have to check like a lunar calendar of some

kind to check that out. But if it is the good year, I mean, that's a huge piece of them. I mean, he's up for a new contract. Well, I mean, that certainly helps. Even if it's not, he's a big body, a flexible forward for a team that, I mean, that's my question with Dallas is what they're going to do with the front court, especially while Porzingis is still out, presumably, how they're going to fill out those minutes and make all that work,

because the backwards stuff looks pretty great. I think you'll see a lot of Kleber, a lot of Maxi Kleber. Yeah. James Johnson played in 32 games last year, a total of 600 minutes. So he has a lot of reserved energy, I guess. There we go. We'll go with that. I think Phoenix is the one based on record that's going to take the biggest jump.

I mean, we talked about this at length. Like, you just get Chris Paul there. and the more I look around this team, I see like the perfect guys for Chris to just build equity in. Like he's kind of becoming the ultimate house flipper. Unfortunately, he's the thing that ultimately gets flipped. But like, he has young, talented players that just need to be set up

and like shown how to do things. And he doesn't have a lot of big personalities. They're going to get in his way. Like I wouldn't be surprised. And I'm going to regret saying this. But I wouldn't be surprised if they're, up with home court advantage in the playoffs because they just seem like the type of team that would be successful in a regular season, especially considering how many young legs and how deep they got

just as the offseason went on. Like, Jay Crowder for three years, 30 million is a great deal. Like, he's going to be starting in the playoffs, unfortunately, for Cam Johnson. And like, the fact that Cam Johnson, who is just great in the bubble might like just be there as like extra. Like that, that's incredible. They've built a really good roster. That was my question because I've already heard a lot of, this team, you know, Portland is going around as a team, but they could be a top three seat in the West. Clearly, the Lakers and the Clippers are there. The ceiling for Phoenix is what I'm really curious about, Justin, that you laid out that they could be maybe in that four or five range, really in the mix of these playoff teams versus squeaking in because, I mean, Paul gives them a lot. Aiton for a full season gives them a lot.

Booker is going to take a step forward. Like, there's a lot to like, if you're kind of on the high end on players like that in terms of your opinions of them, I could see talking yourself into that kind of. Okay, so here's my concern with the Sons. Especially given this weird, we're going to have a compressed schedule, right? There's going to be a lot more games. You're putting a lot of eggs in the basket of a 35-year-old when there's going to be a lot of back-to-backs. That, to me, is the concern is your downside risk is much higher.

Let's just hope that plant-based diet is Chris Paul healthy because there's always a team that gets hurt by injuries. Now the Sons became a list of those teams that's more likely to happen. It's unfortunate way it is. This is where campaign comes in, man. He showed in the bubble that he's ready for the limelight. No, but, like, seriously, they did also bulk up on the back court. Like, Etouin Moore, like, he's probably getting up there in age, but, like, he's a solid

veteran player who can do things for you, Langston Galloway. Like, he kind of got a little bit of buzz as, like, the guy who was really good in Detroit last season that no one really noticed. And, like, this is the guy you steal. Having, like, seen, I think it was half a season of Langston Galloway, I could tell you that that's probably not the case. He's probably more streaky than you would like, but, like, they have a bunch of guys you can throw in there who can

allow Chris to kind of come along but I do want to talk about Portland really quickly here. Where are you guys on them because I love what they did? Similar to the suns like much deeper and probably the most talented team top to bottom since

Dame really kind of took the torch from Lamarck's Aldridge. I love what they did to the point that I am trying to restrain it because Portland is one of these teams that's very easy to get excited about even when they make marginal moves like Damian Lillard is that good. Yusuf Nurich is always kind of doing interesting stuff

that could expand an offense and a team's potential. C.J. McCollum, really, you know, really steady offensive player for them. It's always like, oh, if we could get one more wing, if we could get a good playmaking power forward. They kind of did little bits of all that stuff that we've been waiting on them to do. I'm just kind of waiting for the shoe to drop.

I'm waiting to figure out what this team looks like because just even getting Rob Covington alone, I think really, really helps them. Not to mention all these other supplementary moves and just like the ancillary benefit of moving off Hassan White's side, which I think can help you spiritually and on the court. Well, I did enjoy that they got Ennis Cantor back immediately. They said, we cannot have a guy a stunter who meets the ball and can't play defense.

You've got to fill that hole in our roster. Good culture guy, Ennis Cantor. He's going on the culture guy list. Where is the playmaking forward, though? Like you talk about they need to bring that guy in. I don't see the playmaking, unless Rodney Hood comes back. Everyone else is either 3MD guy. He's back, baby.

He resigned. I don't know. This is what's interesting. They basically merged the bubble team with the Western Conference Finals team. So Hood and Cantor were significant pieces for that team in 2019. And then they have all the guts of what they did last year.

And they have all of these young high upside guys, Collins, Simons, Trent. You would imagine those guys keep progressing. The brought in Derek Jones, Jr., who I personally love, who I went out of, That's your guy. That article about him. It went out of my way.

To your example about the Western Conference Finals team, too, he's like the hybrid Aminu Harkless of this team, essentially. That's true. Like, he's probably just as good as those guys, but, like, because he's just so fucking athletic, like, I just see him as something different. Like, he turned him into a player. So, like, maybe there's more there.

Maybe there's more shooting. But, like, I will say this, though, with Portland. Because everyone talks about, okay, when you get the bought at Dame's hands what are they going to do and their big piece they brought in

was Covington and what did we just watch the Lakers took the bottom of James Hardin's hands and Covington did nothing so that's a me as a concern I think Nerkich is hopefully

that guy and he was great like great in the bubble to the extent he was able to play like winded as hell but I think the hope is Nerkich

handles that secondary playmaking for you more effectively than other potential free agent additions could and that you're improving enough in terms of

defense and length especially at 3-4, which we've seen be a problem for them for years. Even if you're trotting out Carmelo Anthony at 4, the length deficit there versus a Derek Jones Jr. or Rob Covington is significant. So that's kind of, you know, they're not getting the full Draymond Green experience of a playmaking for,

but I think they're getting bits and pieces of the defense and the playmaking potentially from NERC that could put them into a pretty different class. So no, my concern with his team is, too many guys. The too many guys problem. Too many guys. Like if Gary Trent Jr. is closing games? Is Rodney Hood going to be okay with it? Is Carmelo going to be okay playing as much as he probably sits out? Like, it might not be an issue because there is clearly like a veteran and young player kind of hierarchy already established with some of the young guys. But like, Zach Collins is going to be more of a swing player than like a cog in the machine. Like probably going to be backup center, you would assume for most of the time. And maybe that's best for him just considering how.

injured he's been throughout his career, but like, isn't Zerlittle going to get a look here? Is Simon's going to get pushed into the back? Maybe there's a trade coming. Like, worst case, Rodney Hood, human trade exception, and just like, that's enough money to

just swing for something else. But, you know, I'm not, I'm not sure. And that's, you're kind of betting on something, betting on some to clear, like betting on something that isn't there to clarify your roster probably isn't a good place. I guess to be fair, though, this year. But this year with COVID and everything else, you probably can't have too many guys, right?

Realistically, there's always going to be guys out. We'll find out. I mean, the two other too many guys candidates for me, I think, are Atlanta who have so many guys. So many guys. And Indiana is another sneaky too many guys team now that they didn't kind of consolidate with a Hayward trade or something like that. Just getting all their guys back from injury potentially still have kind of a crowded front court.

Lots of guys in Indianapolis. Rob, all I'm saying is if I would love Cam Reddish and Dallas, maybe the Mavs and a future pick for him. That's not a bad fit. That's not a bad fit. It's not at all. A future first for Cam Reddish.

That'd probably work well. The Hawksman. So many guys. Like, I get it. You got all this cap space. I don't know what you're going to do with it if you're Atlanta. But, like,

when are any of these guys that they just drafted ever going to play? Especially if you have, like, someone like Rajan Rondo there, like, that guy's, not going to be okay if Kevin Horder or Bogdan-Bogdanovich

is like starting ahead of him, closing lineups ahead of him, if he's getting DMPs. Like, this just seems like a potentially combustible situation. And like, yeah, again, they can trade John Collins but I don't really know what to make

of this team. There's just a lot of stuff. I can't wait to find out. I love watching a big pile of stuff sift out over the course of 30 games of a season and figure out what a team does with it. This is where it gets fun. Sharks, where are you in Atlanta? I'm curious.

I would love to grab some of their wings. They don't want them. Reddish or herder, I'd be happy to take them off their hands. They're not going to play. I don't see how they're going to play with this team. Like, Gallenari didn't take $20 million to come off the bench, I don't think. Is this you personally, like, for a reclety team, you're thinking?

I just think, like, to me, big wings could give them up on too fast. It takes them a while to develop, and they have three of them who aren't going to play next year. So if they don't want to trade, them, I think he will be interested in getting them. I completely forgot they got Tony Snell, too. One more guy for all the guys. I don't think they have a player on their roster. They have Chris Don. I forgot

they have Chris Don on this roster now. I don't think they have anyone on this team who couldn't, like, theoretically play in a game at any moment, which is like how basketball should work. But like, that's not really how it works when you have a salary cap structure. Here's my

just like wild, speculative, baseless theory. Is that team, are going to start using their G-League teams like an actual minor league system. Would it make more sense to put a Kongwu down in the G-League, even though he is a top six pick or whatever it was, and let him just figure things out there. DeAndre Hunter, if he's not playing well,

does it make sense, especially if you're, like, you're one of these franchises where your G-League is, like, down the road or, like, in your practice gym? Like, does it make sense to use that more as a feeder system than we have previously? I'm more curious about this with the Thunder, considering how many traffics, They have, but it's an interesting idea.

I don't know if it works in practice with actual humans, especially ones with, like, ego and like desire to play NBA basketball. One thing I've been wondering on the G-League front, and this is different for different markets, and it's going to be different if they decide for more of a regional model versus like a national model for the G-League this season. But these are guys who fly commercially in a lot of cases from one city to the next. There's all of a sudden lots of safety issues with putting professional athletes, especially like your number six pick in this draft

on a G-League team to fly commercially from market to market when we don't know what the long-term effects of COVID-19 are yet fully. Like we're still sussing all that out. That's a lot of risk to me, even if you're taking every precaution you possibly could, putting your best young players on a commercial flight across the country

a couple times every few weeks. All right. Let's look big picture just before we go here. Who's the title favorite? Who got? Lakers. I mean, it has to be, right? Not that it really matters who Tyler Fierre it is, but you kind of put the Lakers there.

Well, these are the questions we need to ask around this time of the year. We need to check the boxes. So if it's not the Lakers, who's next? Who's like next in line? Because that's probably a more interesting question. Like, what is the next tier below them look like? I think it's telling for me that there's such a lack of a clear cut.

This is the obvious challenger that I was kind of left searching by this idea. You know, I'm like, I'm wondering about the heat, you know, how good they can still be. I'm wondering about the Clippers, the on-paper champions. To me, the Clippers are better than they were last year. You think they're definitively better? Than they were last year? Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think even if they just kind of figured themselves out more, I think could be better.

So, yeah, I'm kind of dabbling between those two engines, between the Bucks, as we talked about, the Nets who, I mean, Duran is the one player in the world who can really push LeBron, I think. I'm kind of talking myself out of the nuggets unless Michael Porter Jr. makes a monumental leap. and then I just fall into a sixers wormhole of ridiculousness in terms of figuring out what the best possible version of that team could look like it if that team is good enough but I don't know

I mean this is a really hard question I think okay I'll say to me Lakers the first tier and then Clippers bucks Mavs and maybe you think Mavs are this high I think Luka could be in that list of guys who can push LeBron

in the playoff series well you really think the difference between Curry and Richardson is going to make that much of an impact Yeah, I mean, if KP's healthy, obviously. That's the thing. He's probably not going to start the season.

But who cares, right? It's up with the playoffs. Yeah, I guess that's true. I can't help but look at what the clippers are doing. Like, to me, they're just like, that's the hardest thing to figure out when it's a chemistry issue where they could either just solve it with a company picnic or they could just be completely broken and just like irredeemable and it just doesn't work. I feel like

Serge Baca, maybe there's like culture guy. Culture guy with the experience with Kauai Leonard. They need another guard. But I really like what they done. I like the upgrade from like shamit to Kinnard, a guy who could maybe

handle the ball a little bit more for them. They're just so freaking talented. And I think it's easy to get caught up in the failures and not realize that like I think the consensus was probably picking them ahead of the Lakers going into last season. I think on paper, I might do that. In practice, I wouldn't, but on paper,

I still see it. I mean, the Abaka trade, I think, is when taking context into account, maybe the best move of the off season. Like, given what they had to work with, what they needed to accomplish, especially after Montrose Harrow left, Ibaka's really good still. I think he fits a very specific need for them, both in terms of stretch and

defense, that's really important. But as we look over the West as a whole, has the West turned into a conference that has a lot of good teams and not actually that many great teams anymore? I think last year it was like, oh, these top four or six teams, it could really go any direction with these,

especially when we didn't quite know what the Lakers were yet. Now that the Lakers have separated themselves, are we really comfortable putting, whether it's the clippers, whether it's the Nuggets, the Mavs, whoever else you like in that conversation,

how far are they away from the Lakers? It's a good question. It's a good question. I mean, I think you can make the fair, I think it's a pretty fair argument now that the top of the East 1 to 6 is better the top of the West 1 to 6. I think that's a fair way to look at it. I mean, West 9 to 14 is going to be pretty feisty, but like, what are we really talking

about in that range? You know, in terms of the best teams in the league, I find myself more intrigued by a lot of the East teams. Maybe that's just because there's a bit of more of an opening there up top. But it's going to be tough out West to de-throw in the Lakers. I mean, that's an unbelievable team already that got significant. significantly better. Yeah, the East teams probably helps that a lot of the core guys, the superstars that are going to dictate everything, are on the younger side. You would imagine that

there's a next level for Tatum, even for Simmons and Embed, even guys that have been around for a while, OG got Pascal Seacum, whereas there are the Denver's of the world in the Western conference, but there's a lot of superstars who are getting up there in age, Rockets' prime example. jazz, you're wondering if maybe is this the last year where they can really go for it? So that probably has an effect on us. And I think what you were saying about, I could see next year the MP race being Tatum and Luca. And those two guys moving into that really top of the line conversation for best players in the league. Right.

Not LeBron James. It's year 19 for him. He's not going to be trying hard on your season, I don't think. Yeah, that's the one takeaway from the Lakers moves. I think we could all agree on. They're preparing themselves for. just like LeBron to be in Miami at the start of the season. As they should.

And not to play. Yeah. All right. Let's wrap it there. We will be back next week. Thank you for joining us. Thank you to Matt. Thank you for Bobby Wagner for hopping on in production in a pinch here. Until then, we will see you next time.