The Ringer NBA Show - Will Kevin Get Love, the Knicks Fire Fizdale, and Untucked Jerseys | Heat Check

Episode Date: December 9, 2019

Instant Replay (03:40): News from around the league, the state of the Cavs and what the price of Kevin Love might be, and the result of Clippers-Bucks and what this could mean for them down the line. The Main Event (14:08): Paolo Uggetti stops in to talk to the gang about the Knicks' firing Fizdale, the awkward fallout for the interim head coach, and who New York may have an eye on. Good Call/Bad Call (29:03): The city of brotherly love has another incident, Portland’s Terry Stotts gets ejected, and snitches get bad calls! Guests: Haley O’Shaughnessy, Dan Devine, Paolo Uggetti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And now, Heechek. Welcome to Heech. I'm your host, John Gonzalez, joined as I am every week by our producer, Steve Alman. Hello, hello. Unlike David Fisdale, you're still gainfully employed. Yes, and still happy about it, I'd say. Many weeks on Heechek, neither of us have been fired.

That might change moving forward. Poor David Fisdale, though, on the unemployment line. We're going to get to that in a little bit. But first, I want to thank all of you for listening. A reminder to please rate and review us. Don't forget about all the great NBA content on the rigor.com. We did a group post ranking all 30 teams by tiers. That was fun. Zach Cram broke down the NBA schedule using math and facts and magic and, you know, all the other methods that Zach Cram uses to tell us who's real and who's not real in the NBA.

One Palo O'getty wrote about the Kevin Love Trade Rumors and the other biggest questions of the week in his Monday morning column. And I wrote about the disastrous New York Knicks firing one David Fisdale and those two things, those last two things are going to come together. We're going to have Palo on. He hasn't been on in a little bit. Steve, you've never even met Palo, right? Oh, we've met Palo. Oh, yes. All right. So, fantastic. But he hasn't been on the program in a while.

So we're quite excited about his triumphant return and we're going to get into the New York Knicks where they go after Fisdale and the front office mess and all the rumors that are popping up about who might want to coach this team or who might not want to coach this team. But first, let's review the latest news from around the league and bring in our regular contributors, Dan and Haley. Boom, Shackalaka. He's heating up. He's on fire. All right, normally one of them is in studio with me.

Instead, they are both way across the country in our NYCHQ. It's heat check coast to coast with Haley and Dan who are sitting right next to each other in New York. And correct me if I'm wrong, prior to this, the two of you had never met in person, IRO. No, never. That's what the kids said. Never once.

It's even more warm and lovely here in person than it is over. Skype. It was great. I'm going to do this whole show in a New Yorker accent. I love that. But I'm glad that you guys finally got to meet because I'm a big fan of both of you. And now everybody knows everybody. We have so many things to do. Powell is going to join us in a second. And I'm excited about that because he hasn't been on the show in a while. But we have many headlines to review. So let's do that with NBA instant replay. All right. So we're going to get to the Knicks in a second. But there's some other news that we've got to run through. We're going to start with the calves who are not that good, not very good at all.

In fact, Adrian Wojianowski is reporting something that we all kind of expected, that they are already listening to offers for Kevin Love. He's 31 years old. He's got three years and $90 million left on his contract. We haven't really seen Minnesota Kevin Love in a while. He's been good and then alternately injured and then alternately maybe like not as good. But he still has, I would imagine, some things left, Dan. What would you expect that, say, Kevin Love might fetch on the market. I think the interesting thing for him is like that price tag is big, three years, 90 million, but it also represents some cost certainty for any team that's going to be going for him.

Like if you're a team that's not going to get prime free agents, you know, big summer 2012 or 2021 with that kind of stuff, you know you're going to get like a near all-star caliber guy for three years. And so like if you're not a destination, there's something to be said for that. I don't think you're going to get like premium unprotected picks for him or like future all-star caliber young pieces. I don't think he's shown that he's that kind of offensive weapon anymore, but he's still a really good player that can help a pretty good team to get better. And I think that kind of guy on submax money for a few years is valuable. I think also he's 31.

So that's kind of a, you know, if he has three more years, that kind of hurts a little bit. But that just speaks to the teams that should want him right now. They should want him if they have some immediacy to win. This is really the perfect timing for him or for someone who's injury prone and who we're not sure if he'll be Minnesota, Kevin Lerner, again because he could be the difference maker for a couple of teams. There's so much more parity in the league this year that it's more believable that he will be traded, that somebody will take on his contract.

Yeah, I think for sure. I mean, I like Kevin Love. And I think he could help a lot of different teams. And there's one team in particular that suffered quite a few injuries on the West Coast of Portland Trailblazers, Dan, that we talked about. Could certainly use some help. Kevin Love would be an interesting addition there, no. Yeah, I think, I mean, I keep looking at them because they're just so pot committed. like Haley was talking about.

You know, they give Dame the Supermax. They max out C.J. McCollum. Like, this is their window the next two, three years. So, yes, it makes you exorbitantly expensive for the next few years, adding Kevin Love's contract in there. But you also have big expiring deals you could put together in a trade. Hassan Whiteside's $27 million. Kent Baysmore, about 19.3 that you can use as sort of like the meat of a deal.

The question then is, what else would go around at? What would Cleveland want? And, you know, that's where sort of the rubber would meet the road on the deal. But I think they make sense in that way. You've been paying so much for so long. I don't think that taking on his contract. I mean, what is it worth, but, you know, going over for this long if you're not going to win? Especially the last couple of post seasons, you know, they haven't pushed especially.

I mean, they could just go so much further. They always finish the regular season really strong. Now, my one concern is, will this cut into Mello's minutes? Yeah, that's, well, they guaranteed his contract through the rest of the year. so that's maybe they even have to like clear trades with mellow now who knows how it works uh in cleveland no haley other expiring vet contracts that they're probably look to get off of tristan thompson jordan clarkson brandon knight matthew delavadova they have john henson there how difficult to rebuild are we looking at for the cleveland cavaliers we had them in

our recent group post that where we put all 30 teams into tiers we had them in our bad but not hopeless tier which i wasn't quite sold on uh i think that they are both bad and potentially hopeless, but I'm maybe more doubt on them than most. It's interesting because you just named all those expiring contracts. So who does that leave? Colin Sexton, Darius Garland, Jetty, Larry Nance, Kevin Porter. That's really not the most solid foundation. You look at a rebuild like Atlanta's, which is super ideal. They really have a superior starter kit. Also, I mean, you know, I don't think the Bulls did that poorly in theirs. I mean, there's a couple, you look back at the Jimmy Bellar trade and now you're like, God, that was like bad at the time. Now I really don't think that's aged well. Of course,

they got Zach Levine out of it. That's great. But, I mean, could have probably got a lot more. I'm just not super encouraged by it. I don't think it's strong enough. And then the other thing is, you know, is the coaching ever going to be enough to make that strong enough? But, I mean, I don't know. Maybe this is when they start proving. It's very encouraging to me that they are looking to trade Kevin Love. All right. So we'll keep monitoring that in Cleveland. Other news from around the league. We had a matchup of, could be a potential finals matchup. We had the clips and the bucks. It went really well for one team.

That was the Bucks and not very well for the other team. That was the Clippers. The Bucks won by 28 on Friday. It was their 14th straight win. It's the longest streak since 1973. Haley O'Shaughnessy, start with you. How encouraged are you by the Bucks right now? How much should we be taking away from one win over a potential finals opponent in early December?

I think incredibly encouraged because they had a really good showing from their bench, too. and everything else is fantastic already. And, you know, it's against a team that's supposed to have a really good bench. So that was what I took away from it. Dan, on the other side with the clips, Doc Rivers not at all happy. He said it was Janus's birthday, and we searched all over the city to find a gift. Couldn't find one so we gave him this one. Ugly Night for Kauai, Pee G, and Lou Williams.

Doc called the offense Fool's Gold. Previously last week on another episode of He-check, we talked about how PG and Kauai said it was going to take time for them to mash. what we saw here. How worried are you about the Klepper's offense? I wouldn't say I'm too worried about it. I mean, they've won 10 of their last 12. They still only had Kauai and Paul George on the floor for a little over 200 minutes together and they're killing when they have those guys on the floor. So I think it's like you shouldn't get too out of sorts about losing to a Bucks team that has been stomping people. And the other thing on the defense event, like the guys who guarded Janus most in this game were Moharkless and Patrick Patterson, according to MBA.com's

matchup stuff. Like if this game mattered in June, you'd be seeing a very different guy with some Braids guard Yachthianus for more of the game. So I think there's a little bit less to be concerned about here, but it may be a good reminder. Like there's some stuff to be tightened up as the clippers kind of continue to build forward. Haley, you're our heat check resident odds maker. Is this a finals matchup? Are you still betting on these two to face each other when everything comes together? I mean, the Lakers have also had this fantastic start, this historic start.

So I'm going either way with those. But yeah, I could definitely see this. So you're saying one LA team versus the bucks right now. Haley's just looking not to travel for the finals. She wants to stay home. I like that about her. It makes sense. Although you really should know your audience,

you're eliminating a team from Philadelphia, which brings us to our next topic. Ben Simmons, Sixers beat the Raptors, which makes them, I think, the transitive champions in the NBA, transitive property champions in the NBA. But more interesting here for our purposes, Ben Simmons in a game over the Cavs

and a blowout game over the Cavs, hit a corner three on a catch and shoot in rhythm looks surprisingly smooth. He didn't hesitate afterwards. Brett Brown said, this is what I want. And you can pass it along to his age and his family and his friends. I want a three point shot a game minimum. The pull-up twos,

I'm fine with whatever is open, but I'm interested in the three-point shot. Yo, this was very interesting for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that Brett Brown is signaling that maybe Ben Simmons has some people in his ear telling him not to shoot the three. What did you make of this, Dan? I thought it was maybe the most notable thing was because Brown also said the number he's really focused on

is eight free throw attempts a game for Ben Simmons too the next game against the Raptors zero three point attempts, zero free throw attempts. Ben Simmons is not going to do what sort of what, you know, what everybody else might want him to do at a given point. He's going to do what he thinks makes the most sense for him. And it's also notable that in that went over the Raptors, he was awesome, 16, 11 and 9 plus 6 and 40 minutes of play.

Like, he's a helpful player even if he doesn't do that. So if there's a pushback from Brett Brown, Simmons is going to pull back with equal or even greater force. Haley, after he hit that three-point of the Sixers account tweeted out this big to-do about it. And our other favorite, Dan at heat check, Dan Pfeiffer immediately replied, obviously, a big Sixers fan, immediately replied that maybe this team and the Sixers' Twitter account should treat Ben Simmons like a normal player rather than making it a big to-do every time he hits a three ball. Where are you on the fanfare and all of us focusing so?

much on Ben Simmons anytime he even takes it through. Look, man, you have to get retweets. Okay, you have to build a cloud. If you put a video of Ben Simmons making a fucking three-pointer, you are going to get a bunch of retweets. So I'm with it. I'm sorry. Yeah, my counterpoint was, I think that they should put them in the three-point contest. Imagine how much fun that would be. Just throw them out there and see what happens. Some quick injuries here. We mentioned the Portland Trailblazers off the top of the show. Rodney Hood went down with a torn left Achilles versus the Lakers. He was having a pretty good season, by his standards, a pretty good season for them. And they also needed him. He was eating up a ton of minutes. The hits keep coming for the Blazers. They're still without

Nerkitz. They're still without Zach Collins. Quickly for the two of you, you know, we mentioned maybe they go out and make a play for love, but this is just an absolute killer for a team that has been decimated by injuries. Yeah, I think it certainly doesn't help things because if you were looking to use Kent Bayesmore as a trade piece, like you need bodies on the wing. You need more guys that can play minutes out there. And There are so few reliable options for them that it's going to be hard for them to sort of serve every need they've got. This is why you need the best versions of Dame and CJ and you need whatever you can get out of Mello and the other bigs on the roster because it's pretty dicey when you get to the wing

in the back court. I mean, this is the risk with Rodney Hood always, right? Inconsistency on the court, which you were saying he had a good start to the season, but also with health issues. So I'm sorry, but you can't really count on him to be like this supplemental guy. Yeah. If you're relying on Rodney Hood, you're already in a pretty dangerous place. Indeed. That was headlines and NBA instant replay. Before we go to the main event,

let's bring in one, Palo Ugetti. Boom, Shakalaka. He's heating up. He's on fire. All right, joining us in the studio, making his triumphant return to the heat check program. He's a staff writer. Palo Esco blog, Palo Ouggetti. What's up? Yeah, long time we'll talk. Yes, I'm back. This is wonderful. So we've got two of them in New York. You and I are here in L.A. We brought you in because you wrote about the Knicks shortly before David Fisdale got fired. I wrote about the Knicks.

We're going to do this. Let's signal the main event. All right. So on Friday, mere hours, Palo, after you wrote your piece saying that nothing would change if they fired David Fisdale, they fired David Fisdale. It was funny because I think everybody knew it was coming

and it's a weird like, it must have been a weird like 12 hours of just like dead period of waiting until okay like let's see who's actually happened because everybody had pointed to the Nuggets game as like wait till they get blown out blown out that game and then it will happen which I guess happened nobody's more plugged into the next your sources said the little birds were in here and you knew it was going to happen and you wrote about it he was 4 and 18 this season Dan 21 and 83 and less than two seasons he becomes the fifth head coach in the last nine to be fired by the next midseason he's replaced by

Mike Miller as the interim head coach. Now, this was very interesting. So the game right after they install Mike Miller as the head coach, Steve Mills and Scott Perry, the president and the general manager, run out Mike Miller to talk to the media and do not address the media about the coaching change. Yeah, Gons, I don't know if you know this. The Knicks not super into talking to the press, not big fans of doing it. The idea that Mike Miller, formerly of the Westchester Knicks G League team and assistant on this roster,

then winds up having to be the spokesman for his press. predecessor's firing is really just like some chefs kiss nick's shit and uh it's it's hard to imagine a better sort of situation like all right come in for your first game and now explain why you're here uh really just dynamite stuff haley i don't i don't understand this like how is it possible that first that steve mills is still standing that he's been there for like 20 something years or however how long he's been in various capacities for them but that they fire the coach midseason after having that weird impromptu press conference what like a month ago after they got blown out by the calves right And then they like volunteer to talk to the media, which as Dan noted is is abnormal for them because they hate talking to the media.

But then they do this massive thing and they say, yeah, we're not going to talk about it. We're just going to run Mike Miller out there. Look, his boss, Steve Mel's boss has a lot of music adjacent things to concentrate on. So that's why I believe he's been in for so long and has been able to maintain all of this chaos. I mean, he must be telling him, obviously he's telling him, Powell, what he wants to hear about how, oh, next year is going to be the year. where we're going to get the attractive free agents. We're going to, you know, they struck out this time. But next year, next year will be the one where they go out and they court somebody bigger.

Or afterwards when Yannis is available, they're going to go get Yonis. It's coming, though. Well, it's kind of like how we talk about when a GM comes into a team to rebuild. They get a lot more leeway because there's a longer runway. You can kind of sell your owner on the future. I feel like the NICs have been selling each other on like the future that has never come around. And now they're just kind of like, okay, I guess on to the next step.

But at some point, right, you would think that something has to give. Now, so we said that not much as you wrote about this, obviously, but we've all agreed, I think, that nothing much is going to change with this team just by replacing the head coach. But how much do you like, because Dan and I had talked about this previously. Last year, their big thing was judge us on their development, right? Like judge, judge us, judge the Knicks on the development of the young players. They obviously haven't done very well in that regard.

So how much blame, though, for this. this disaster, do you play us on David Fisdale? He didn't have a good roster, but he also didn't do a great job with it. It's so hard to blame Fisdil in any capacity. He didn't do well in some, like you would, some rotations and some, you know, lineup choices were really weird. Like I think Franklin, you know, played like 37 minutes one game, six minutes than next.

And in a blowout, you don't play a guy like Alonzo Trier more than six minutes who, you know, whatever you may think of him, he's a young guy trying to develop. and if you actually are trying to put an emphasis on development, you would think you would play those young guys, you know? And the thing is they do have some intriguing young guys, Mitchell Robinson, even Kevin Knox, and RJ Barrett has looked pretty good. So that fact that they're not even fully committing

to the development stage of this is worrisome. But also, I mean, we should talk about the roster construction here. Yeah. For me, everything goes back to Mills and Perry Haley. You have the six head coach that Mills is fired and fired before you had Fizzdale. You had Hornacek, Derek Fisher. your interim coach, Kurt Rambis, Mike Woodson, and Mike Dantone.

Dantone is the only one of that group who's found another NBA head coaching gig. When you look at this roster construction over the offseason where they struck out again with KD and Kyrie Irving and they go and just throw a bunch of money at like every power forward who's available, like how much could Fisdale or any coach

reasonably do with this bunch? Development takes time. I mean, think about the actual definition of the word. It takes time. You have to give Fisdale. sell more time. This is not going to happen in two seasons. Plus, the Knicks are not win now and they're acting like with all these firings and hirings that they're win now. You're not. If you can't get those big free agents, you're not. I'm sorry, it's going to take a lot of time.

Well, not only are they're acting, I feel like win now in some capacity, but also just they're right. They're still acting as if they're the Knicks of like how most people kind would think of them as like the premier franchise or one of the big markets like they're still acting like they have that kind of reputation about them when we all sort of realize that they're probably one of the like bleakest teams right now this is what kd even said after he signed with the nets where he did an interview and he said the cool thing right now is not the nix which has been true for so long that i don't even remember what it wasn't true like the nicks say exactly what pallas said they think that they're this premier flagship franchise because

they're the Knicks and they play in MSG and they're in New York, except for aside from just the city and the venue, like, why in hell's name would you want to go play for James Dolan when they look like this? Which brings me to my next point here, Dan, and I hate to indict Dan's beloved New York Knicks, long time New York Knicks fan, Dan Devine. But Dan, who's going to want this job long term? I want to run through some possible replacements who have been mentioned here. Mark Jackson, and not surprising. He's thirsty as hell, wants a job. He probably would take it.

Patrick Ewing was mentioned. Met a world peace through his name out. He tweeted that he wants to bring the street mentality back to the garden. There was a report that Becky Hammond might be interested, but that she would want a long-term contract of at least four years. Becky, let me say, don't do it. If you're going to get a gig, please don't take that one. Dan, are any of those candidates good and could any of them turn

it around and why in hell's name would they want this job? Yeah, I think that I have no idea what kind of head coach most, you know, Becky Hammond would be, what kind of head coach MetaWorld Peace would be. You know, my understanding is that Patrick Ewing has got his hands full with Georgetown right now. Like there, you don't know what it looks like until the person's in the seat and the job. But, you know, there's, I don't think there's any reason to believe that this is going to change unless everybody is on the same page with whatever the plan would be. and then the plan is a plan that makes sense.

Paolo had pointed to the turnover and the idea that, like, you went from development to win now and seemingly nobody knew what happened or why. This seems to happen like every 18 months to two years, no matter who's in charge, we're going with one kind of plan. Oh, no, scrap it. We're throwing everything out and we're going with something new. And that, I think, you have to trace back to ownership. You have to trace back to a decision-making process that is not stable and is not long range.

And, I mean, the bummer is, reason if you're like, why should you believe it's going to be better? There's no reason to. There's no reason for James Dolan to change this because he's not ashamed enough to change anything and he makes money hand over fist whether they suck or not. So I, I'm sure you do hate to see me having to talk to you about this. But the reality is, I don't think there is a reason for hope. I like some of the young players. I have no reason to believe they're going to develop. I like some of the pieces that they could add. I like the financial flexibility they have the future draft picks. I have no reason to believe that they're going to be used well. So until I see it, I have no reason to believe.

And it's just a really bleak and sort of dark morning. It's really rainy and shitty here in New York. And I think that's sort of a general. It makes sense. Well, let me help you out here because I think that there could be hope. There could be a silver lining. It's a long shot, though. And I want to run this past Haley. Dickie V of all people came up with this idea. And I got to say, Dickie V might be on to something. Rick Petino's in Greece. He's coaching Panathenecos. They could get Rick Petino back. Haley O'Shaughnessy? What do you think? You know, I've muted Dickie V from all of my life when he announces a game.

I mute it. When he's on Twitter, I mute it. If it was ever in person, I'd put headphones on. We all know he's got a vendetta against Louisville. So I'm sorry. I have literally no opinion on that. Also, Rick, get out of the spotlight, please. You don't want Rick to come back?

This would be amazing. I am all here for... I would not want Rick to come back unless he could succeed. So not the next then. So not. About this, Palo Picoke. So you mentioned how the Nix think of themselves as this marquee franchise, and they're always going to get the next guy.

They're always going to get the next coach. To that end, there have been reports that they are going hard after one. Musai Ujiri. This comes from a number of different reporters, including S&Y's Ian Begley, who tweeted out, The people of influence at Madison Square Garden have been, as one source said, obsessed with Musai Ujiri as the Knicks. struggle, as you'd expect. Steve Mills and

Scott Perry are feeling pressure following firing Fisdale. Do you buy that the Knicks have a shot at Masayu Jiri? And why would Messiah Jiri leave an otherwise stable organization where he just won a championship to go to a franchise

like the Knicks? I believe the rest of that quote wasn't just they're obsessed with. They're also enamored by. I just want to make sure that we get the full quote there. No, why would he do that? Why would he unless he's got like some sort of I don't know motivation to

be the guy who you know like for example like with the Red Sox like how Theo I've seen was sort of the guy that you know got them from their curse to winning the title like if he's obsessed with being the guy to taking that kind of franchise and getting into a title but I don't see why like

he's the Raptors are good even without Kauai now he's building something there the Knicks would be a mess that might stain his reputation which is pretty perfect right now I understand Dan and why the Knicks are like, they're kind of like scrambling. Okay, like who's like the big name right now? And obviously he's like number one.

So I get why they're doing that. But it just feels like such a desperation move that they think they can solve that with just a large amount of money and not like actually getting somebody to come in who is going to be invested. So, but let me play devil's advocate here, Haley and Dan. What if I mean, if you're Messiah Jiri and you did just win a championship, right? What if you got some sort of sweetheart Phil Jackson-esque deal? Now, let's not forget, Phil fucked it up, right? Like, he wanted to install a system that's antiquated, and he didn't know, he wanted to commute, and he wasn't putting it any hours.

But, like, what if they gave him that, Messiah Jiri, that kind of deal and that kind of autonomy? And they said, James Dolan is going to, as Haley mentioned, just go off and play his kazoo or whatever the hell he does. And they say, here's a bunch of money, and you could try to revamp one of the flagship franchises in the NBA that's been in disrepair. Like, if you're Messiah Ujiri, do you at least think about it? Maybe. God, that just echoes mellow so much when he took the money. No, absolutely not.

Are you not in this to win and have a good name for yourself when you're ultimately out of it? This is like such a bad situation to be in as long as the owner is the owner. But we're talking about somebody in Messiah Ujiri who does have clout, right? So, like, when KD says the Knicks aren't the cool thing right now, Dan, wouldn't Missai Ujuri maybe kind of change that perception? He could. I mean, there was not, it was not very long ago that the Raptors weren't a cool or interesting thing. And then Maasai comes in with fuck Brooklyn and we're figuring this out. And then eventually it happens. You know, you swing the deal to get the superstar and you win a championship. It changes over time. The issue is you'd need, he would need everything. You would need the Phil Jackson, whatever it is. So it was five, I think 60 million for five years for Phil. You know, let's ramp that up. Let's get it up in the 70, 80 range. You'd need full autonomy on every hire. So Steve Mills does not get to stick around through another regime. If he wants to completely overhaul medical and scouting and everything else, go for it. Cartblanche to hire who you want. James Dolan, I don't think is going to be

particularly interested in that. He likes to have his people around too. You need to give him absolutely everything. And then also, like, if you can do some off the books type shit, like we're going to give you a blank check for all of your philanthropic efforts, like Giants of Africa. Name your, what do you want us to donate? Well, you know, we'll put a wing on every, anything you want us to put it on. It'll be in your name forever and ever amen. That's the way would have to be. It would have to be like the godfather offer of all godfather offers. And even then Masayu Jiri would have to be like extremely, it would have to be a competitive thing where you're like, I think I can be the dude. And the Knicks have been trying to figure that out for years. Players,

executives, coaches, play to their egos. And they just keep losing. So it's not like, they have to make it good before you can get good people. And they haven't been able to do that. I love that where you went with off the books was to charity. You were just the most pure person I've ever met. Okay. So yeah, I'm sure there maybe that maybe there are some other, you know, you know, muddy or sort of situations there. But, I mean, that seems to be the thing that Maasai Jiri cares most about outside of competitive and competitive shit. He wants to be continuing to grow the game in Africa, continuing to build his philanthropic efforts there. So if that's it, then sure, okay, we're going to like quadruple, whatever the operating budget for your, for your charity is. We're going to do that. Like, you have to come up with something

that's going to make someone who is smart and reasonable go against their best interests. Taking on the Knicks would definitely be. I can hear how, I can hear how giddy Dan is trying to talk to himself the possibility that this could be real. So I really appreciate it. Oh, no, no. Palo, Palo, I have no hope in my soul. There is no spark in my heart. There's no smile in my life. You seem to lie up when you're thinking about those philanthropic efforts, though. Imagine, well, I like the idea that the Knicks could do something positive across the board, like something that would actually help people and be nice would be a wonderful thing. I don't think there's any fucking chance it happens, but it would be a cool way for it to work out. Yeah, I want to be clear that I was playing devil's

advocate there and also do not believe that this would happen. But I do like how we sort of have begun to talk Dan into maybe kind of thinking about it, at least entertaining the prospect. Dan, all of a sudden is going to be championing the Maasai to New York bandwagon. He's on board. Dan, you're on board now. You sons of bitches. All right. Yeah, yeah, it's totally. It's coming. He's very excited. The Knicks are still a disaster for right now. That was the main event. Hello, do you want to hang out and do a little good call, bad call with us? Sure thing. Why not? That'll be fun. All right. Let's, let's

go to everybody's favorite segment good call, bad call. What a bold call here. All right, so this is where we decide what's a good call and what's a bad call. It's a very complicated segment. You should know however, because we've run a foul of this previously, that Haley starts.

Nobody else starts otherwise I get yelled out. Very well acquainted with Haley Haley going first. I accidentally went to Isaac first one time and man, that did not go over well. Haley, Terry Stats, Portland Trail Azers head coach, was ejected for the first time in his career in a loss of Lakers. I didn't know this.

It was a hold me back situation. It was kind of funny where like C.J. McCollum was kind of doing the holding me back thing. The last time he was ejected, he was asked about this. He said he couldn't remember, but he thought it was early in his career in something called the Summer Pro League in Long Beach. It's the first time in 880 games that he had been ejected. Brett Brown is now the leader at 515 games without being ejected. Should Terry Stott's start getting run more, Haley? Saucy Stots forever. Yeah, good call. I love it.

Good call because you got to be able to let your emotions out, man. You can't just be all buttoned up all the time. Steve. All good for therapeutic yelling. Yeah, good call. All right, with three so far, hello. A hundred percent good call. Run.

Yeah, especially if he hadn't gotten run out since this league in Summer in Long Beach. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, man, take a little time off. Like, it's a long season, as we've mentioned on this before. I say good call. like don't work too hard all the time Dan Devine. Player coach Mel? Oh yes.

I love this idea. That would be excellent. To another one here, Chris Paul. This is an all-time Chris Paul moment in OKC versus the Wolves game. It was a close game. Late in the game, Jordan Bell went to check in. And as Bell walked into the game, his jersey was untucked. And Chris Paul loudly alerted referee Scott Foster. Of course, it was Scott Foster,

screaming his jerseys out, his jerseys out, his jersey's out. That's a delay of game. Foster noticed and ended up calling the delay of game because it was the second delay of game. It was an automatic technical. Gallo hit the free throw. They went to overtime and the Thunder won. Haley O'Shaughnessy, what do you think about Chris Paul snitching and then Scott Foster rewarding snitching? There are three things that you learn early on in life. One, the alphabet, two, how to count three, never snitch. Bad call. Dan Devine. I agree. Bad call. I mean, as a dad, I untucked my shirt all the time. I'm mostly untucked. And I feel like if Chris Paul went after me like that, I would feel really hurt. And I think it would be uncool. So bad call, Chris Paul.

You are currently untucked in a shirt that both of us own. We have a hat that we both have. We have a shirt that we both have. He looks very handsome. Steve, what say you to snitching? Bad call. I'm always untucked. Nobody likes a snitch. Untucked. No snitching, palo. I'm going to say good call Yeah, oh I like it Very contrarious Because isn't that the rule Like what are we doing?

Oh, you're going how long? No, no, hold on the rule, you're a rule stickler? All right, here's what I'll say I appreciate How Chris Paul does things sometimes Even though they're annoying as hell Like I appreciate that he's looking for every little edge That's it.

That's all that's all That's all You're so close to sniffing around the correct take here I'm going good call On Chris Paul being a nudge and like he can't help himself but be Chris Paul. And this is such a Chris Paul moment. Like, of course, under normal circumstances, rock the untucked, don't snitch.

But for Chris Paul purposes, being a dick is his brand. I'm on board with it. Good call. Hall monitor shit out in L.A. Haley and I here in New York, we represent the real. I just like Chris Paul to be Chris Paul. Kyle Lowry, this is, we talk about Chris Paul having a Chris Paul moment. This is a very Philly moment.

Kyle Lowy rocking off the court. after the loss to the Philadelphia 76ers in Philly. Kyle Lowry from North Philly went to Villanova, which is not in Philly, but still, he's very Philadelphian. And he got into it with a fan in Philly, and he was screaming at the guy, come see me. And he was asked after the game, Haley, were you surprised that somebody from your,

like, you're in your hometown? Are you surprised that somebody from your own town would treat you that way? And he said, nah, it's Philly. I respect it. Good call, bad call with Philadelphia's greeting fellow Philadelphians, with invitations to rumble. Isn't fighting a love language in Philly? We established the love choke last week. I guess a good call.

I don't, you know, I can't speak for them. Dan Devine. I'm going to go with bad call. Stop fucking with players. Stop reaching out to put your hands on Kyle Lowry. We need more to be a separation from that. Kyle Lowry should get to do whatever he wants to do. If you want to yell at people, that's fine.

Let's keep the love choking to a minimum and only on same sides. Steve, you were not on board with love choking last week. I know, but it's only in the, in the terms of reconciliation. So I'd say good call if he thinks it's all good. I agree with Dan, bad call in terms of just a fan player interaction. Like, people need to chill. I do like the yelling in some cases because it gives us like viral moments in some cases, but that's it.

Yeah, I don't want to be too earnest about this here. I think we've established previously that we don't want fans to, you know, get into it, actually get into it with players. However, there's a Philadelphia caveat to this. This is how we interact. We just yell at each other. it's usually fine. I say good call. That was good call, bad call. We love to have Palo here. Dan and Haley, we thank you. Steve, as always, we thank you. And we thank everybody for listening.

Please rate and review us. If you wouldn't mind, read all of our content on the ringer.com. Listen to the ringer NBA show on the ringer podcast network. Palo, you've got a column up right now with do. Yeah, it's your Monday morning column. Tell everybody. Tell the people. Tell the people about your five big questions. Well, it's not always five. Today was four. So there's just go. Don't hold me to the five. Don't always tell me to five. Could be two or three. There's some number of questions, but Palo's going to answer them for you every Monday. So be sure to read that.

And Heat Check will be back next week on Monday with Dan and Haley. Thanks for listening, everybody. Bye.