The Ringer NBA Show - Will SGA Continue to Dominate the Pacers? Plus, the Knicks Search for a New Voice. | Real Ones

Episode Date: June 11, 2025

After falling to Tyrese Haliburton’s miracle shot with 0.3 seconds left in Game 1, the Thunder bounced back in a major way in Game 2 with a dominant victory thanks to Shai Gilgeous-Alexander’s 34-point effort. What was the difference from Game 1 to Game 2, and which team has control going forward in this series? Haliburton hasn't had a dominant series, even though he did hit the game-winner in Game 1. How should he be putting his stamp on the Finals? Has the NBA dropped the ball on the presentation of the Finals, or is this just yet another online complaint ? Who will be the Knicks' next head coach? Did the Knicks fire Thibs without any real plan? Is current Mavericks head coach Jason Kidd a viable option? Howard relives the moment Kobe threw Shaq the alley-oop in the 2001 Western Conference finals, and the guys go through a loaded mailbag! (0:00): Intro (1:40): State Farm Ad Break (4:34): Game 3 Preview (23:41): Fan Duel Ad Break (25:05):Thoughts on NBA Finals Presentation (36:06):What's Going On With The Knicks? (50:28):State Farm Custom Segment - Greatest Assists of All Time (56:34):Real One of the Week (57:50):Mailbag The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hit the mailbag! [e-mail] Hosts: Logan Murdock, Howard Beck, and Raja Bell Producers: Clifford Augustin and Victoria Valencia Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Who's popping? Real ones. We are back. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell, there. Howard, motherfucking Beck and the cut. Howard Beck has a plane to catch. And Roger, just, you still let's get this shit over with. Raja, how are you doing? What's summer raw looking like?

How's it going for you, buddy? How are you doing? No, I'm good. Specifically, how are you doing, sir? I'm doing well. But, you know, anyone who has kids at home for the summer, like it's, we're fine right now, but I see where this is headed. There's a lot of, there's a lot of, there's a lot of activity.

There are a lot of needs. There are a lot of non-drivers. There's a lot of things that people desire to do. There's not enough time in the day. So the level of tension in the house and just anxiety just rises by the minute. So what time is it now? 11. I'm okay right now, but I see where this is going.

Right. Do you think you're going to feel like this in a year when your oldest is going off to college? Are you going to be like? No, no, no. So I am actually trying to balance. It's a great point, Logan. So any time I have those type of feelings that are, like, welling up inside me, I try to balance them with like, you will miss this when they start leaving and he's gone.

And so, like, it brings me back to like a level, a level emotional state, right? But like, so it's like, er, but thug tears are like kind of for me. Yeah. So when you ask me how I'm doing, I'm fine. Like, yeah, we're good. We're going to go fishing tomorrow. Try to catch some mahi. It's going to be good.

It's the most Miami shit ever, however. We're going to go get some Mahi tomorrow. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. On the basketball court, the best players know when to pass. And off the court, you still need teammates who are there when it counts. That's where State Farm comes in. With agents and online tools to help you find the coverage you need, you could focus on what really matters,

whether that's hitting game winners or just getting through the day. State Farm, with the assist, coverage options are selected by the customer, availability and eligibility vary by state. I don't even think I've ever seen a Mahi fish other than on my plate. Like I don't ever think, you know, they don't have that at all. The only place you need to see them. Okay. This is, this is, can I rant?

Can I start the pod with a rant? Please. I mean, what are we? We have the NBA finals to talk about. There's not much else to talk about. These kids today, right? Like these, um, we're already off to a phenomenal start. No, it is sports related.

It's basketball related. It's basketball related. So anybody like, you know, we could tie it in if you, if you feel it necessarily. but the schedules that they ask these dudes to keep as young 15, 16 year old athletes, like, you know, and I'm, I'm experiencing to some degree with my little girl too with soccer. It's an obnoxious amount of games, practices, and then just generally as they get older and now that, like, Thai is in the recruiting world of just things that you have to be at. It monopolizes your whole summer.

There's no time to, there's not even time to, like, train, let alone get, way and be a kid. There's no time to work on your craft to get better. At least NBA players have an offseason where there are no games. If you wanted to change the form on a jump shot, like you had plenty of time and opportunity to do it. If you wanted to make some adjustments to whatever else you could, these kids like literally don't have the time to do it. So I say that to say, you know, people are a little salty that I'm taking my kids fucking fishing tomorrow and they're missing a practice. I don't give a fuck. I'm not going to be beholden to that. There are two young. They don't need to be doing that every day. Like, I'm sorry. They got to be kids.

I love that. I love that. Fair. The people who needed to know probably heard that just now, you know, so shout on to you. Thanks. That's what I'm on. Does it feel good to get that out? Does it feel, do you feel better a little bit? I don't. I don't because nothing's going to change. But I, so for my household, I will try to protect them from that. But like, fundamentally, like, all jokes aside and like, I'm not ranting and raven. But it's a, it's kind of, a broken system. It's too much. There are too many things that they need to be at or they're pressured to feel like they need to be at. And there's not enough time real talk. Not just to be a kid, but like let's say you have a kid that just loves their sport and they want to get better at it.

When does that happen if you're playing every single weekend and you practice all week? And you can't miss the practices or, you know, like there's just no time built into it and it's broken. Yeah. Speaking of pressure-packed environments, Roger, who has the the most pressure going into game three out of the thunder the Pacers? I think it's okay C because, I mean, obviously you lost home court. You need to flip that and get it back as soon as you can. I feel like they are in control more so maybe than some other people feel. I feel like, you know, the Pacers have been gaming.

I'm not taking anything away from them. They pulled out game one. And so there is pressure on them because I think that Oklahoma City kind of has control of it in a way that the one one might not suggest. But you do need to get your home court back if you're them and you need to get it back quickly. Howard, you wrote about Halliburton and the struggles that he has faced even with the game winning shot in game one. and, you know, his just inability to catch a rhythm against this great, amazing, spectacular Oklahoma City Thunder defense. It's probably an oversimplication to ask what he needs to do. But, I mean, that's where we're at right now.

Like, what does he need to do going into game three right now? Because it's been such a wonky series where OKC has pretty much had control throughout the series. one one series record notwithstanding, but he needs to get going in a way for them to get going and them to win in the way that they do. Do you think that that's going to happen in game three when they're back home and there's more comfortability? Or where do we stand with Tyrese Hallibirut at this moment? So I actually, by the way, think that there's more pressure on indie weirdly, not to disagree with Roger just for the fun of it, which is, fun though, anyway.

Because, you know, if you look at the first two games, you know, the Thunder pretty well spanked them in game two. The Thunder had control of almost all of game one. And then the Pacers just did that Pacers thing where it's like, okay, we think we're going to go win now and we're going to beat you down the last five minutes of the game. But they, you know, they had a lead for like, I don't know, less than two minutes of the entire clock. And so the bigger picture here is the Thunder have really controlled the series. They lost home courted advantage. And yeah, if they lost game three to Raj's point like that, that would feel like a lot of pressure on them at that point. I still feel like it's more on the Pacers, only because the moment you lose game three, if that happens, you've now surrendered the one thing you had, home court advantage.

You've lost two in a row. And it will feel the weight it feels heavier too when you've lost back-to-back games, especially if game three feels like game two. Then it starts to be, you know what? All that talk about how the Thunder had way more depth and talent and all these amazing versatile defenders who can get after you, it's going to start to feel really heavy, I think. And then all of a sudden, four becomes the must win. It just, these things snowball really quickly. Anyway, Halliburton. Tyrese Halliburton is really fascinating because just as a reference point,

none of us, none of the three of us participate in our ringer top 100. So people can neither credit nor blame us for this. It's just a, it's just a reference point. Tyrese Halliburton. Yeah, whatever. As I always say, if you have concerns, complaints, grievances, go to Michael Pina. You can find him on all the socials. It's all his fault.

He loves that. Tyrese Halliburton broke the top 10, I think, for the first time ever, in the wake of his run through the Eastern Conference playoffs, because of all those clutch shots, because of all those huge performances, because of like the 30 point triple double with no turnovers, right? like every, the totality of Tyrese Halliburton's performance this spring has vaulted him into the ringer's top 10. And when we're probably not the only outlet doing that, right? His profile has grown immensely over the course of these playoffs because of his, primarily his late game heroes, right? But you pull back a little and you look at the results the other night when he only had five points through the first three quarters.

And yeah, it ends up with 17 points and like, I think eight assists, seven assists, something like that. But it was like mostly a lot of like, you know, you know, fourth quarter, flurry, that really didn't make much of a dent. He didn't have an impact on that game. And it brings up this kind of conundrum with Tyrese Halliburton. He's definitely a star. He is by the ringer's top 100 committee's standards, a top 10 star. And I'm not even disagreeing with that.

But he is not our prototypical NBA star. He is not the put my team on my back night in, night out, high usage. I'll get you 30, 35, anytime, anywhere. Just let me know. I'll go do it. That's not him. That's not the way he's wired. It's not his game.

Raja had a great explanation a couple weeks back or just or an analysis about the fact that like Tyrese is not the guy who just like put it in his hands, take your guy off the dribble, you know, collapse the defense. Like it's necessary like he can do that, but it's not really his game. He needs screens. He needs movement. And the beauty of his game is more about that selflessness and his uncanny shot making, his great passing.

and whether you want to compare him to Rondo, Nash, kid, whatever, he's more like those guys than Westbrook. He's more like, he's more like Rondo and kid than he is Nash. Nash could score it. Stevie could go get buckets. He could. And one of the things that even,

I think Steve has said this in the wake of his career was like, I should have maybe shot more. And they always said, and like, you know, Dan Tony and they always said like Steve could have shot more. he's so selfless to a fault. Halliburton can be selfless to a fault too, but you're right. He's not quite the score that Steve was or could be. But the numbers look about the same, right? The numbers, because they're both shooting less than they could. Point being, when Halliburton has this game like that, and this is why I wrote the piece I did out coming out of game two, immediately there's

this dumb kind of like, oh, Halliburton needs to step up. Halliburton needs to shoot more. Halliburton is like, no, that's not who he is. And if he starts trying to force the issue, that's not going to do the Pacers any good. They are collaborative or an ecosystem, as Carlisle said in the post game the other night. And that's not some alibi. That's evident to anybody who's been watching them all season. Like, they are an ecosystem. They're an ensemble.

They're great when the ball is moving, pinging around, and Neismith scoring a little, Nemhart scoring a little, T.J. McConnell scoring a little Turner, Seacum, everybody is involved. That's their game. That's how the Pacers got here. So if you get to this stage and suddenly you panic and say, oh, shit, we lost a game. getting dominated and maybe they lose game three. Oh, no. The answer is not like, well, Halliburton and Siakram are the stars, just keep feeding them. No, that's not what's got you here. And that's not who you are. That's not your best attribute. And to the extent that they can,

they have to just get back to what has made them great. Push the pace, keep the ball moving, take open shots, period. It cannot be all of a sudden give the ball to Halliburton and have them shoot 30 times. How much of that is like, I mean, we see it a lot with, with, with Shaq with Bigman, right, where it's like if you're not getting a certain amount of shots or a certain amount of remoders, a certain amount of dominance, I would say like, I don't know if cliche dominance is the right word, but like, you know, whatever we think about dominance, we think about, oh, you know, Kobe got 48 and that's how you need to play as a player. How much have we, is that kind of culture?

I'll ask Rogers. how much of that kind of culture is kind of seeped into the coverage of the way Halliburton is on this big stage, right? Where he does have a, he can be dominant in certain ways. You talk about the 30 point triple double. But like he's doing what is needed for his team at the given moment. And that's always his go-to. Well, like I'm doing what I need to do for the team. And the stats kind of like bear that out for what is needed.

like how do we balance both of those agendas where one guy's like one is like hey if you're going to be dominant you need to put up gaudy numbers as opposed to what he's doing the Jason kid route or the Rondo route where you know he's getting a lot of people involved and he's more of a facilitator and he'll hit the shot at the end like you did in game one um i mean i think both can be dominant, right? Like you can you can literally dominate a game by by stat stuffing, um, points, assists, rebound steals, what have you and just have your fingerprints all over that game in terms of the pace and, and control of it and so on and so forth. Um, you can also dominate it by just like physically imposing yourself on the point category,

uh, to a degree that would get you a win. The, the difference, and I don't know if I'm answering your question really, Logan, is it's, it's, To do it the first way, and for that to be able to produce a win, you have to have a supporting cast that's able to support you in terms of point production so that all of those other ways that you dominated the game can produce the win, you know? And so in the other instance, you know, you see 45 points with whatever and that wins a game. It's just it's it can be more of a singular. type of effort at times offensively, right?

Like there are just two different efforts that you're given. How you balance it, you know, I don't know. But to be able to dominate a game and win in, you know, in either way, it requires different supporting cast. You know, in the first, again, if you're going to point, if you're going to stat, you know, stuff, we're going to need point production, obviously, from our supporting cast in a way that helps facilitate the win. And in the other situation, we might not need as much point.

production, but we're going to need someone to do the other things. We're probably going to need somebody to handle the ball and get it to us in our spots. They might be getting the assist. We're going to need someone, you know, to clean up glass and rebound and defend, and they'll get those stats. And so mine will just be reflected, you know, in point production. I don't know if that's a great answer to it. They can both be dominant. They both require different supporting cast for that dominant performance to produce a win. What have you seen, Raj? I want to, game one is a great example of this though of I guess the Pacers run

as a whole but OKC is in control the whole entire game and at the end the Pacers just put on the jets and go steal one. That's been the story of their of their postseason in a lot of ways. Is that a sustainable model to win?

Do you think? Like or how have they been able to continue to do that up until this point? And can they do, even if they don't play wealth, right? They don't have control of game three. They still seem to be in it, but it all, it seems a little scary if you're a Pacers fan. Yeah. Is it sustainable? Yeah. I mean, I guess so far so good, right? They put, they, they have three equalizing things as a team as I see it. They, especially in the playoffs, they've defended, you know,

and they've defended well. They've done that across the, the, the playoffs so far from, from start to finish at least. They didn't defend great in the last game, as well as I thought they did in the first game. but they also pace is an equalizer and that ability to shoot the three ball. And I don't know where they rank in terms of playoff teams, but they've shot it really well in the playoffs. And those three things, especially when you combine those three things, any one of them singularly is an equalizing thing.

But like if you combine the three, it gives you an opportunity to just be around, just be around. And I almost text you guys in game one. I know it's going to sound corny. We haven't spoken a while. But I almost text you when it was maybe like 13. and you could see you could see okay C pushing it out to like 18 but then it would be like nine

and then you know they they they you know okay C would find it again and it'd be up to like 12 or 14 and you felt like it was going to break to 19 and then it would be at eight and then there was a time in that game I was like man this is not this just feels weird it feels like they're just letting them live in a way that they shouldn't live but it's because that pace was flying up and down they were making shots and they did a good day. defensive effort on Chet and at least Jay Will in that game. And so they were able to pull it out at the end. Do you want to ideally have to pull them all out at the end?

No. But you asked me if it's sustainable and they've done it a lot. So it's hard for me to say that it's not. Well, you think about O'KC's offense and think about just the first of the offense, right? It can get a little stagnant at times. They can get a little too over-reliant on Shea at times, right? Especially when down the stretch of game. And you saw that as well in the second round against Denver.

I think it was like game one. Whichever game that Denver stole, I believe it was game one, but the real ones can correct me. But you see that the susceptibility of OKC to burn leads at the end of the game just because they, not that they don't have a go-to option, they have plenty of go-to options down the stretch, but they can get a little stagnant offensively. But I do want to talk about Shea. It seems like he's proven a point in this series, right? Where Chet hasn't been great in this series.

You referenced Jdub also hasn't been great from the floor. But there has been a commonist from Shay. He has been proving his worth as an MVP a winner. What have you saw from him in this particular series? And how has he grown? How has this shown his growth over the last few years? What have I seen from in this series? I mean, I thought in the first game, to your point, late in the game, walking it up, just holding it at the top of the key, I think he started doing that around the two-minute mark.

That was not ideal. So I think what you've seen is a maturation of a great player who was already great. Obviously, he won the MVP. but I think you've seen him continue to mature. And the team has as well mature and kind of learn on the fly, right? And then not come out the next night and make them the same mistake. You know, I thought that I thought that he did a much better job in game two. You know, Nemhart picks him up really early in this series of whoever's guarded him.

They don't want him walking it up to court and having it in his hands. And I think that they waited in some instances in game one to get it to him really late in a shot clock. I think they worked earlier in the shot clock in game two to find a way to get it to him. It required him moving a little bit. It required the pieces moving and the ball moving. I thought they did that really well. And honestly, my takeaway from it is just this. When you are a score of the degree that Shay is a score, a la Kobe, a la Mike,

a la Kevin Durant, whoever else you want to put in that very elite, you know, level of put the ball in their hands, they can get a bucket guys. It doesn't matter and they are not affected by the level of defense that is played against them. You might get them for a night. Like I'm not saying I can't have a good night guard and Kobe, but over the course of time, they're not going to be affected by you. That level of defense, that defensive player of the year candidate, that number,

all defensive first team or second team player, he affects Jay Will. He affects Che. He affects Halliburton. He affects Seyakum. He does not affect Shea. Not over the course of time. You might get him from night to night. What was your favorite play?

Like God, damn. What was your favorite play for Shay where you were like, God damn. Jesus. I mean, I have them on my phone because I send them all to my son Ty, like in real time.

I'm clipping that shit, bop, stopping it. Because he's in the other room sometimes watching. And I'm sending him to him. But like, he's got, he's got his defender in a torture chamber, dude. Like that's just a torture chamber.

I'm telling you. And it all starts with that little, like, if you can picture him at the top of the key with the ball, and he takes his right foot and he basically steps across his own body, right? He steps across his own body and it kind of, what it does as a defender is it steps at you. So you've got to kind of react and back up just a little bit. But then as he steps, he opens back up.

So all he did off the bat was create three feet. That's all he did by stepping across his body and stepping back. I backed up a half step. Now he opened up. There's three feet of space. What the fuck am I going to do as a defender? Right? He shoots the three ball now.

So like, all right, I know that he still probably doesn't want to shoot that three, but I got to respect it a little bit. So I'm just going to fractionally creep up. And as soon as you move, he's at your feet. And then if you overplay him, he's stopping on a fucking dime and get it into the pain. No, no, no, no. But hear me. he he is at your feet now he is at your feet usually like and and what he does phenomenally is as soon as he

gets that body contact it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a bump um or it's a or it's a quick stop and change the direction and as soon as you change direction right you've got to open those hips up and when you open those hips up he puts that foot in the ground and he steps away from you it is a it's a torture chamber it's really i i don't know what to say like i i've just got to Fusive praise for, it's very, very, very frustrating as a defender to watch him. Conversely, on the flip side, like, for young players studying how to, like, be a true master of a craft, especially in the mid-range, I mean, no, him brunts it, like, watch. Just watch and take notes.

One question, one more question for you, Rosette, I want to get to Howard about the finals. What do the other guys on OKC need to do? We just referenced J-dub and Chet. What do you want to see from them in game three and beyond? I thought they were good in game two. I think you continue to, again, we're talking learning real time, like experiencing this in real time and trying to get better from game to game. I thought both of them were more aggressive in game two,

especially Chet. I thought he was more confident. I thought they were more physical and more assertive. And so I would just like to see them continue to do that. Like play free, play aggressively, and play physically. I think those three things for them, they'll be fine. They're good players. They're a great team.

You know, the nerves, if you had any, should be out the window after game one. If not game one, definitely by game two, you're settled into a series. So now in game three, you know, we should be good to go. The NBA finals are here. It all comes down to this. and fan duels turning the excitement up even more to an all-customer profit boost for every game of the series, as if you needed another reason to root for a game seven. Use your profit boost to bet which team will win, who's going to drop 30,

and who you can build a parlay for a shot in an even bigger payday. If your bet wins, you'll win even bigger. And then you can do it all again the next game. All right, let's take a look at the slate. There's only one game, game three of the NBA finals, and I'm going to take the under on points and rebounds for Tyrese Halliburton. I believe that the OKC Thunder defense is him. Then I'm going to take the over on Shea Gilgis Alexander points, rebounds, and assists,

and I'm going to take the over on points for Jdub. Feeling good about that. If you don't already have Fandul, it's not too late to get in on the action. Just visit Fandul.com slash Ringer MBA to join a day. That's Fandual.com slash Ringer NBA to claim your profit boost for each and every game this NBA finals. Make every moment more with Fandual, official sports betting partner of the NBA. You must be 21 years and older and present. and select states or 18 and older and president in D.C., Kentucky, Wyoming.

Opting required, bonus issued its novel, drop, a profit boost, tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration and max wager amounts. See terms of sportsbook.banddual.com. Gambling problem called 180 gambler or visit rg dash help.com. Howard, what have you thought about the presentation of the NBA finals? That has gotten a lot of discussion. If you guys want to get a bigger deep dive, go check out. our friends in the press box who did a really good job of it.

But it just seems like the NBA itself is on its heels about how they're presenting the NBA finals as an event, right? And I mean, it could be a network thing, but it also very well, it's going to fall on the NBA as a whole. Like there's not the anthem. They were having the trophy gate on the court controversy, right? Just unnecessary shit that the NBA just tends to get itself into, right? like that has nothing to do with the game,

but then you're comparing it to the NFL, you're compared to all these. What has it been on the ground? How have you? What are, what is the league feeling like on, on the ground right now? You know what's funny about this?

And I'm sure it's been covered. I'm sure it's been written. I haven't read everything. It's bonkers during the finals. And so like there's so much that I'm missing just being immersed in it that you don't hear everything. I know we have decal gate, trophy gate,

logo gate. Why isn't there shit on the floor gate? You know what the funny thing? is about not having the finals logo and the Larry O'Brien trophy decals on the court. That shit hasn't been there for like six years already. Like it's been year. So it's been, I think it was 2019 is what the league told me the last time they had the NBA finals logo decals actually on the court.

So pre-COVID, pre-bubble. And then the trophy logo decal, that hasn't been on the court since like 2014 or 15. time is just so compressed now, especially for those of us who have reached a certain age, where it's like, it seems like it just disappeared, like it's this first year, like, hey, how come it's not there this year? What wasn't there last year? What are you talking about? Wasn't it a year before that?

Before that? Wait, 2019? Are you freaking kidding me? So that's weird. Yes, to the point, the NBA Finals logo should be on the court. The Larry O'Brien logo should be on the court. Somehow, some way, they need. to have it there. Adam Silver's response to this, and he has talked about this in the past.

This is not new people. I know we have to overreact every year as if this is the first time shit's happened. They've talked about this in the past. They've addressed it in the past. And there's a belief, concern that the decals, whether if there's condensation or whatever, there's somehow slicker or even without condensation. They're just slippery. Those areas are more slippery on the court than the rest of it. And so the answer would seem to be, well, why can't you just make the courts with that on there? I think it takes something like nine to ten days or whatever to manufacture a new court. So you could make the case, as others have.

And I think our buddy Vinnie Goodwill at Yahoo made this case the other day. Pre-manufacture four finals courts during the conference finals and have the team logos for the, you know, for your home court, right? So that it looks like more or less your home court if you're Oklahoma or Indiana or if Minnesota or New York had made it. But make it with the finals logo. built in the trophy logos built in so that by time you get to the finals that shit has shipped to the two cities and there it is it's the court it's your home court but it's a cooler version of your home court and it doesn't require decals that may or may not cause slippage and potentially

injuries we don't have to do this the stupid uh you know whatever you know AI trans you know the whatever bullshit they're doing to the you know the trickery with the cameras I don't know what are we calling us anymore, the superimposing of the ads? And they're doing with the TRI, CSI, my, CGII, CSI. Yeah, all the eyes. CAA. It's like, because that looks goofy. It's bad enough even during the regular season now because we've got all these ads

superimposed when you're watching from home. And like sometimes guys running through like the woolen, the pool and weed eater logo. I don't think that's an actual NBA sponsor. I just like saying pool and weed eater. What the fuck? Was it? That was it? Roger's looking at me like I'm insane.

Dude, that was like a fucking college football bowl like 15 years. You don't remember this? The pool and weed eater bowl? No. No. All right. Look it up, young man.

It was there. You're on your own, buddy. I swear to God. I'm not dreaming this. But it's a thing. If the people say it's a thing, the people watching at home say it's a thing, then it's a thing. And there is an importance to have

the finals look and feel like the finals. It needs to look and feel bigger. That's why people are nitpicking about it and having entire conversations and columns and talk shows about it, because something about it doesn't feel like it's got the gravitas or the urgency. That can go to the network as well, presentation, the way you lead into the game, whether or not you include, you know, not necessarily the anthem, but at least the intros. Like the intros are a big deal. Like, it's that is part of a buildup of every any anybody who's ever been to a game. And if you've ever watched the 90s

when you're hearing that song Serious by the Allen Parsons project, like that shit gets you pumped even if you're sitting on your couch at home. So yeah, intros need to be part of it. The intros haven't been televised, right? I'm not, I'm there, so I don't know. No. Easiest fucking thing in the world. Televise the fucking

intros. Get the fans at home as hyped as you're trying. to get them in the arena. Let them see it and feel it. And yeah, I mean, the logos would help too. I think the league is sensitive to this one and actually not sensitive is the wrong word. They're, they understand this. Yeah. Not just cognizant. They understand it. I think they agree on principle. They just hadn't really addressed it. I just think there's too many instances of the NBA getting caught flat-footed in these types of instances, bro? Like, that's the bigger issue here, right?

Where it just doesn't seem like they are in tune with what the consumer necessarily wants. Or maybe they are. But, like, it's like we talk about the All-Star game. We talk about the overall presentation in general. There's just too many types of instances with this, with the NBA, where it just wasn't before. And I know there's a different type of media apparatus, right? a sports media coverage and a beat on there that are pointing out these things more. But it just seems like they're caught flatfooted in way more ways than they should.

They're not reading the room, right? They don't have a feel for their audience sometimes. And obviously, look, the MBA is a marketing machine. Let's not oversimplify this and say that, you know, they somehow completely, you know, became inept overnight. But there are times that they don't read the room well. This is obviously one of them. By the way, this is weirdly a bit of a repeat.

of speaking of six years ago, 2019, the last time the logos were on the court, that was the year where they had switched to that ugly, stupid-ass block logo of the NBA finals. They'd got rid of the cursive and they had this fucking block logo presented by YouTube. Presented by YouTube so it could be in a nice little square

and all the angles were right. And it looked like shit. And we all mocked the fuck out of it in person on Twitter, on every other platform we could find, because it was dumb. We got to the finals, and I made sure to catch up with Adam Silver at one point. And I don't think I ever printed.

I don't think I, stop it. I don't think I printed the quote because it was like too weird to have it as a standalone. But I said, I was asking about other stuff, whatever broad strokes I needed for a bigger story. And I said, by the way, while I got you here, are you aware that people are really kind of pissed off and annoyed that you guys got rid of like that cool cursive logo that looks so classy and and gives the whole event. a certain kind of feel to it. And he, Adam had no idea. And listen, Adam Silver's got a lot of stuff he's got to do as commissioner. It's not his job to like fix logos or pick fonts, right?

That's somebody else. But he wasn't really aware. And when I pointed out, he kind of like chuckled and he's like, yeah, guys, I said, this is a big thing. Over years, a lot of us were like hammering this every single year on Twitter. And I do think we finally embarrass them to the point or made the point on behalf of the masses that you got to change it past. And a few years ago, we got the cursive logo back.

So people, if you're mocking them about no logos on the court or the presentation or the lack of introductions and other things being televised, keep hitting them. Because the NBA, they may be a little slow to come around. They may not, they may have misread the room at the outset. But when we all actually pile on, they do kind of respond. And they did with the cursive logo because they brought it back. It looks fantastic. It never should have been gotten rid of in the first place.

and maybe we can get the rest of the shit fixed too. Just keep it coming. Pulling weed eater independence bowl. Thank you. Port Louisiana, 1990 to 1997. To be fair. Not since 19. Not since 1997.

Roger was sponsored to you back then. He didn't give a fuck about those type of balls. He was looking at the, he was looking for the orange ball, the cotton bowl. You know what I mean? No, no, no. I was locked in, I was locked into all bows, all bows, all bows. Um, real talk, all bowls, anything, anything football related, bro.

I mean, I don't even watch football. I don't even watch bowl games. I just thought that that was like the funniest name for a fucking bowl game ever. It's part of why bowl games are stupid because they have stupid names like the pool and weed your independence. The wool brought to you by Doritos. I'll watch a UFO game like right now. I'll sit there and just watch a fucking, I don't care.

You know what's crazy about that whole segment? I didn't know that any of that shit was going on. I was not to ask you if you thought that was important. Because I was like, let me bring Raj's in. Is that important to a player at all? Well, it wasn't. I mean, it's not important to a player at all. No, but like what's important?

A decal would be. Slipping on a D for sure. For sure. I mean, if it's a hazard, yes. But like the rest of it, no one gives a fuck. What's important to a fan? I mean, I guess it's all relative. I just, I had no idea that any of that was even taking place.

I didn't even know. You don't know. Cliff says, tell him, Cliff says in the chat, tell him the fix the all-star game. They're on that one too, Cliff. They know. They're trying. And boy, they try. Whatever we think about with the All-Star game, right?

Like, it's just isn't working. And I think that that's just the biggest thing that I think about they're getting, they're going to do a fucking US, USA versus the world next year and stuff. There's so many just different changes. It's like, dude, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, dude, they're just, they're just, dude, we're going to get a different format for the All-Star game every year for like a 10-year stretch.

And at the end of it all, they're going to go, like, you know what? Maybe we just shouldn't have this anymore. Let's just name who the All-Stars are and move on with our lives. And Howard's going to be like, that's a good idea. And then we're going to be like, no. And then, you know, we're going to move on. Okay, let's, let's move on to the next. I'll be retired by then, fellas.

I'll be, I'll be done. I won't give a fuck. Hell yeah. What the fuck are the Knicks doing, Howard? What's the front office doing? What's going on here? Speaking of flailing. Oh, man.

Doesn't have to be this way. Doesn't have to be. So wait a minute. We haven't done a show since the firing. Is that the case? Because we were off Friday unexpectedly. Listen, I covered this on Zach's pod last week. So I don't want to repeat too much of it.

But this is a really difficult one from my standpoint, because I do think it's really startling and very indicative of where we are in the NBA that a coach can lead a team to back-to-back 50 win seasons for the first. time in 25 years, go to the conference finals for the first time in 25 years, and then get fired. It is indicative. It is in the same vein as Taylor Jenkins being fired with a couple weeks to go with a playoff team. And Michael Malone, stop it. Rogers. I do give me that look. I never, I never defended it at the time. I just, no, no, fuck that. Yes, you did. I. Roger, you hear this bullshit. You hear this bullshit. I just explained what I had heard as to why I explained. I did not defend. You definitely,

You definitely explained, I will say, though, if I'm being, if I'm being honest, there was a time where I ranted and you did play devil's advocate in the defense of it. And not the Ros a Devils Advocate. Ultimately, I don't know how about that happened. Is this not a podcast? Do we not play devil's advocate and debate things on a podcast? But that's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying. It's levels to the devil's advocate.

I never said Taylor Jenkins should be fired. Never. I never said he should be. Nor did I ever said Michael Malone should be fired. I said, I can understand. I can understand that this is the context under which they did it. And this is the rationale. And some of that rationale might have some validity to it.

I get it even if I don't think it's right. I don't, I didn't sign off any of those. Shut up. That's fair. That's fair. It just felt like a little strong devil's advocate, not the raja devil's advocate where he just says it for the sake of saying it. And I don't think he believes it. I felt like you believe someone.

So it was a, it was a defensive devil's advocate. Yeah. It was a defensive devil's advocate. Listen, to the. point, but to the point, I thought we were talking about the Knicks. Tibbs led the Knicks to back-to-back 50 win seasons first time in 25 years. Tibs leads them to the conference finals, first time in 25 years. Tibs presided over their best five-year span that they've had in forever. And much of what the Knicks are right now, respectable, competitive, not being

pointed and laughed at. He should get credit for a lot of that. Because for 20, years they were being pointed and laughed at. Howard, you're in a bag right now. You're in a bag. And so I think there's a lot of this that you look at and you think this is nuts, except in the context of today's NBA and the way coaches are fired, even the way GMs are fired, the way that teams act rashly, impulsively a lot. The Sun's three coaches in three years. Yeah, this is just the NBA. So like the Knicks are no better or worse than anybody else with regard to to that. But the Tibbs thing is a little bit complicated, guys. Like, I hate to say it. There are some valid criticisms of Tibbs. I know we're not supposed to say that, but there are. The front office,

at least some members of that front office, clearly had some of those same concerns. There are times when a coach runs his course with the team. Is that the case here? I don't know. I'm not in a position to say that for sure. We have seen plenty of instances where a coach was fired and the next coach got that team further, even to a finals or a championship. That happens sometimes. I don't know if that's going to be the case this time or not. I think the biggest issue here just to spin it forward is this. If you fire a coach like Tom Thibito, who's clearly very good at what he does and is one of the bigger reasons why they are where they are and have made all this progress. He's not the only one, right? Jalen Brunson deserves

the top three lines on why the Knicks are now good and respectable and not being pointed and laughed at. Jailen Brunson deserves most of the credit. Front office, by the way, is the one who signed Jalen Brunson, when nobody saw this version of Jalen Brunson coming. Tibbs presides over his emergence so that you could say who he maybe gets credit for his breakout. But the front office went out and got the OG and Anobie, McHale Bridges, and Carl Anthony Towns,

and Josh Hart. I mean, they put together a really solid roster that enabled them to get here and Tibbs does what he does. And he got the most out of it. I don't think you should be fired for not making the finals. that's silly. I don't think that that's probably the reason. But it's also hard to know because this front office never talks.

We will never know what their rationale was, except for through sourcing and bland-ass press releases that don't tell us shit. So don't expect we're ever going to understand the real truth behind this because those guys will not be accountable ever. They will not sit in front of a microphone ever. But you have to have somebody in mind and they don't. If the guy they had in mind is Jason Kidd. Jason Kidd is under contract.

And you don't even have a lot of like, extra draft capital. Also, that's not like an inspiring thing to do, right? And he's not an upgrade. Whatever you think of Jason Kidd or Tibbs, you can't tell me that Jason Kidd's a definitive upgrade over Tibbs. He's just different. I don't know that there is an obvious answer there, but we're a week since the firing and we still are no closer to knowing who they're going to get. So they didn't fire Tibbs with a clear agenda in mind or we know we have a better alternative in mind. It's just the open search, which fine. The next guy, who knows, might get them further,

might be the guy who unlocks that offense a little bit more and makes it a little less Jalen Brunson-centric. Like, there are some valid criticisms on both sides of the ball here. And maybe the next coach addresses those. And the Knicks front office will look like they made the smart move. As of right now, this just looks a little murky. Roger, what does this do for the continuity of the Knicks? You did that.

You did that on purpose. Look, man, I mean, I have to, I have to admit that today's NBA player slash locker room is way more, it's way more accommodating of change on the fly than it was probably when I played. Like, we, we didn't operate in that world as well as some of these players do today. A lot of that has to do with, you know, just the way kids are raised and, and, you know, attention spans, quite frankly. You know, you're only locked in for a certain amount of time anyway. So, you know, having a new voice in there or so on and so forth. I'm sure there's a lot that goes into that. So I don't ultimately know what it does to the next.

I would just say, you know, as I said about some of the other firings, we can have criticism, the Tibbs and all of that. It speaks to something bigger to me, like if there was like a fundamental disagreement. after the season ended, whether that be with something Tibbs was doing, whether that had to do with overall personnel, if it had to do with, you know, targets via free agency. It speaks to a disconnect between someone there. And the reason I say that is because, you know, if you're going to, like, if you're just going to fire him because you know the move that's going to be made post-tibs that's going to get you to a point where everyone can look at the roadmap and say, yep, this is what we needed. This is definitively an upgrade. And we're going to, that's one thing. But if you're just

going to fire him and we're going to be sitting here a week later, like, well, what the fuck is the plan? Like, what are we doing? That's, that doesn't, I mean, there seems to be something bigger going on there. Right. Like, that's not a, I mean, look, I don't run businesses. So far be it from me, but like, like that doesn't sound like, like it just was, hey, man, we had some concerns with his rotations and dude said he practiced them really hard. Like what the fuck are we talking about? You know what I mean? We're talking about the New York.

Dude, that's a billion dollar. Like what are we like, you know, you just fire him and say, hey, we hope we can get Jason Kidd extracted from the Dallas situation. Yeah.

Like that doesn't, it speaks to something like we're paying. And we're still paying him $30 million. And we're still paying $30 million. I mean, who, I mean, they don't care about that.

I mean, again, like the one thing you could never criticize Dolan over and there's plenty to criticize him for. But like, he's always been willing. to spend. So if he thinks it's the right move to fire the coach and pay him $30 million for no, just to sit at home, that doesn't affect the fans. It doesn't affect anybody else. Who cares

about the money? I think it's more just the fact that this sequence of events doesn't inspire much confidence. It makes it look like they did not have a clear vision in mind when they made this move. And that's the problem. And it could all end up fine. Rajah, the question I would have for you, though, is just this. Like, you know, we all watched what they're, you know, we watched this playoff run where it's like they stunned the crap out of the Celtics and it was incredible maybe the biggest playoff series victory for the next in you know whatever quarter century um there there there were times where it looked like the pistons might actually knock them out the first round they had some struggles there they lost the pacers when you watch them play

and if you're just thinking like you know what we get to start from scratch we're going to have a new coach what what kind of coach do they need and i don't mean just like personality like oh player friendly versus old school but like do you when you're watching them Are you thinking there are other things to unlock here and the need of coach who does X? Well, it's a good question. Let me go back and say to any Knicks fans, you know, and I've heard, you know, there are reasons. And that can all be true. But I would say to you this, I've been sitting here telling you that from a roster perspective,

the Knicks could have very easily, you know, after seeing Detroit against them, Cliff was closer to being right than I thought. Like I came on here and said that. They should not have beat the Boston Celtics. They should not. Like it's not like their roster was so strong and so talent-laden that they underachieved. And so, you know, when you ask me what someone could do that Tibbs didn't do, I mean, I'd be hard pressed to find someone who, you know, schematically and culturally was better

defensively. That's what Tibbs does. So it makes me go to the offensive side of the ball. And then, you know, maybe we can live in a world where we have Brunson being Brunson with less overall usage rate, which would allow some of those other players to to kind of spread their wings offensively and help in a way. But, you know, then the argument is, well, is Brunson Brunson with a lesser usage rate? I don't know. I don't have the answer to that. No, Howard, I don't know because it's like personnel is personnel. Yeah. So unless the coach is coming in with the personnel plan to go with his plan to implement on the court, I don't know. I will say this.

And one of the reasons I asked, some of the stuff I heard from people last week as I was like kind of poking around. And I talked to some coaches around the league. And I talked to some folks who had a little bit of insight into what the Knicks were thinking in terms of their concerns. There's definitely a strain of they could get more out of that offense that Jalen Brunson has the ball in his hands way too long, way too. deep in the shot clock. All the analytics show that, like, your efficiency goes way down the deeper into the shot clock that you shoot. And the Knicks, I think, were either, if they weren't 30th, they were really close to the

bottom in terms of like running the shot clock down to whatever, whatever that is. They were the most, one of the most consistent shooting late in the shot clock. And that hurts your efficiency. They got McHale Bridges who, and we talked about this all through the season. Like, why don't they use McHale Bridges a little bit more as a creator and a ball handler, secondary playmaker because he can do that. He did it in Phoenix. He was miscast as a primary playmaker in Brooklyn because they didn't have anything else. But the dude can do a lot more. And we saw that at times, especially when Brunson was out late in the season. They want to see more out of

as a fulcrum of the offense. And we've seen their ability to do that and his ability to do that. So I do think a different coach can open up different things with this offense. I've absolutely been, I believe that more having talked to some coaches around the league over the course of the last week. And some of them even said, one of them particular said flat out, like, love Tibbs, respect to howl of what he's done in his career and with the Knicks specifically, but he's coaching like it's still the 90s. And I said, you mean on offense? He says both sides. Well, I mean, that's fair. I'd have to really dig into their tape and be, you know, in a way that I haven't to prepare for this pod to like really give you a, I'll trust to give you a real opinion on it.

I'll trust the people that that you spoke to. I certainly see that offensively, right? Like, I mean, you know, the interesting part about it is all those guys played together, like at Villanova, right? And so you think getting them. But Jalen Brunson didn't play like that at Villanova all the time. Like, he's morphed into this, like, the more, you know, the better of an NBA player he's turned into.

Now, I did hear some things, and I don't know how true they are or not, these are just rumblings about like, you know, dad on staff, having the ear of the coaches, having a little bit of input into how we play offensively. I don't know if any of that's true or not, but like certainly I think you could, you could get that ball humming around the court, get more touches for other people, play a little quicker. Again, you're walking, it's not that Brunson could not do that. It's really not.

Like, he's an excellent player. He'll be able to play in any way. but is he the same value of player? And if he's not, do those other pieces take steps up in their value to offset what you're not getting from Brunton? That's the equation like that you have to figure out. So, you know, I'll trust that. Defensively, I'd be interested to hear the logic behind that.

Like, you know, it might just be, you know, something that I'm not tapped into and I, they're better, you know, basketball minds than me. I'd like to see it. I'd like to understand that. I'd be interested in having that conversation with someone. And now it's time for a new segment with the assist presented by State Farm. In basketball, the best players just don't go at it alone. They have teammates, coaches, and a support system that lifts them up.

And off the court, you still need teammates who are there for you when it counts. That's where State Farm comes in. But for now, let's get into some of the greatest assist the game has ever seen. I've got this branded segment just before the podcast. And I thought of Howard motherfucking Beck, who was at. Game seven of the 2000 Western Conference finals when Kobe threw the Aleup to Shaquille O'Neal. And that was a great assist, a very historic assist, and also catapult of the Lakers into the beginning of a dynasty. Howard was in the building. Howard, how did you feel seeing that assistant person?

That was one of those rare times in my career where everybody on Press Row, I think, like, moved somewhat. I think J. A. Donde has actually said he jumped into Bill Plashke's lap. And it's not because it would be impressed row like Laker fans. I'm just saying like it was one of those just holy shit moments. And it, and it capped off this incredible comeback. They were down 15 to open the fourth quarter at a time when it was really hard to come back for a 15 point lead in the fourth quarter. Because this wasn't like the three point era.

15 points back then would be like 25 now. And they had already overcome it all. They'd already wiped out the deficit. They were up by maybe three when that happens. But you just knew the second that happened, it was over. like Vince Carter dunk contest over. Like that was that was it. The Blazers were gone.

The Lakers were going to go to the finals. And yeah, like that was, that was an all-time great moment because it wasn't just like a play. It was symbolic of everything that those guys could do when they were actually in sync with each other. And of everything that was to come that we didn't know yet, which was a three-peed. How does it feel being in the building for a type of moment like that? Like, because I remember being in Boston in 22. You were at that game, too, when Steph, at the night night and like you see it, I still remember that that, that image is so burned into my

head, but I see it from my vantage point as like a play that happens and then you see it get immortalized. What is that for you like now, right? Because that play is very much immortalized in NBA lore. And now it's like, it's something that you just kind of relive every year during the conference finals. Is that weird for you? Yeah. In a way it is, partially because it's a reminder of how long ago that was and it doesn't feel that way to me. 25 years goes by at a blink. But it's also just, again, it's all the meaning behind it. Like, I've been covering that team for three years at that point.

And we didn't know they were going to go win a championship that season under Phil Jackson. They, like, they overachieve. They weren't supposed to win 67 games in the championship. It was like, well, Phil's coming in, but it takes time to learn the triangle and da-da-da-da-da. Jack and Kobe still have to figure their shit out. And so when I see that play now, those replays, which, you know, are all, on like a loop for every like real of all NBA all time great postseason moments. To me, it's just a reminder of like what that era ultimately was and who those guys were at

their best and when they weren't fighting with each other. And so it is probably my favorite moment that I've ever been present for. And again, I'm saying this is somebody who's like, I'm not a Laker fan. I'm not a fan of any NBA team. It's just the meaning in that moment and also just the impact of that moment and the explosion at Staples. center in that moment is just something you can never forget. And how did that catapult them into the dominance into the next year when they have to play against Raj's Sixers? What's funny, it's funny you mentioned that.

It's funny you mentioned that because even though there's been a couple of other game one upsets in the finals where the road team won, the last time I was that shocked at a game one result was Rajah Sixers beating the Lakers in 2001. Yeah. And so, but the flip side of that was the Lakers then stomped Raja's team four times in a row. And it wouldn't surprise me if that's history repeating this year because the thunder are good enough to do that. I don't think the gap is quite as big. There's no Shaq and Kobe, but Shea's amazing and their defense is suffocating.

And yeah, I know as soon as the Pacers won that game, everybody's like, oh, it's going to be a long series now. It's going to go six or seven games. I think there's also still the possibility that all of us who called it Thunder and five could still end up being right. I'm not, you know, I'm less confident about that now, of course, than I was before the series started. But I just think it's an interesting thing to remember because when the Sixers won that game, Rajah, I'm sure you guys all thought, fuck yeah, man, we're in this thing.

We're here to shock the world, which was like the big, I think AI might have said it back then. I think Reggie said it one year. Like, that was a big thing back in the 2000s for the underdog team to say, We're here to shock the world. We know nobody believes in us. Yeah, no, we thought, I mean, we thought we definitely had a shot. And Real Talk in game two, I don't remember exactly how it played out, but we had our chances in that game.

And I think George Lynch got injured and shit happened. They were a really good team. But, yeah, why are you bringing back all the shit, bro? That's Logan's fault. I'm just answering questions. Roger, Howard. What up? It's no secret that great teams eat great teammates.

And when it comes to insurance, State Farm is there to have. help you navigate the right coverage for your home, car, and more. Whether you need an in-person or digital assist, they are ready when life hits you with a full court press. Get a game plan that fits your life and talk to State Farm today. State Farm with the assist coverage options are selected by the customer availability and eligibility vary by state. And now it is time for Mailbag.

And now that I have Cliff and Raja on the line, we've got to talk. We just got to do a quick ruin of the week, man. Like it's a rare one, but like, man, our guy, Bubba Chuck, 50 years old. Oh, is he? 50 years old. So he celebrated with a Yankee fitted, a suit jacket with a white tea underneath. White tea. We're listening to Jeezing.

Like he just had some questions on probably. Has some questions on. There you go. When I say, when I say I is 50 years old, what comes to mind, Roger? Like, is it like, wow, I'm getting old or is like what is it like? No, yeah. That's how we, we are old. I mean, you know, that's what comes to my.

I mean, I just flashes me back, right? But I was telling somebody this the other day. He was a younger kid, but he was looking at my kid saying, damn, I can't believe, you know, they're in here about to go away to college because he knew them when he was in high school and they were little guys. It feels like yesterday, you know, in some moments. And then it feels like a lifetime ago in other moments. So like, yeah, man, pretty crazy to that man's 50, bro.

But I was blessed to have an opportunity to play with him. obviously and then you know play against him for as long as I did okay okay Cliff Howard has to get on the PJ to Indianapolis let's keep this PJ my ass let's keep this we got we got to get this going how I go get my fucking middle seat and eat pretzels man Howard Howard how we got to get to Teterboro Howard I got you wheels up let's go all right this first shout out to Teterboro shout out to Teterboro shout out to Tito bro this first one is from Kevin Monaghan Cliff Exclamation point.

What up, real ones? Should the Spurs take a flyer on KD? They can keep their core and still trade for them. Is that something Wimby would want and does it make them a contender immediately? Also, Roger, Circair, 2001, 2002. I remember seeing you and Fat Farm Valora outfit walking into Peacom. So don't frown like the Avericks were your style. Thanks, Kev from Philly.

Sit from my iPhone. Talk of that talk. No, but like, yeah, that damn, PECOM is real talk. But like Fat Farm, they all used to make Valores back then. It was like Fat Farm. Sean John, Anichi Rockware, Averall. My leathers were mostly Aver Rex,

dog, for clarification. Leathers were mostly Averick. You have an Averick's back? Huh? Do you think Beck had an Avericks? Maybe. Beck. I mean, I would say,

why not take the flyer on KD? But I don't think it makes them a contender necessarily. I think that this might get clipped and sent to them. You know, I might get so, you know, all of us might get like a group DM just fucking motherfucking us. But like, hey, whatever.

I don't think it necessarily makes them a contender. I don't think that they're, the spurs are ready for that yet. And it's hard to, even if you have KD, like LeBron went to the Cavs in 2014. And it took a long time for the guy,

the other guys, the younger guys, to understand what it meant to play at a high level environment, right? And that was prime LeBron. And you're talking about getting Kevin, who's, what, 18th, 19 year to kind of not only galvanize the team, but he's not going to be the number one option. And your best player on the team still needs to figure out how to play in a contender-like environment. So I don't think it's going to make them a contender necessarily if he goes there.

But it'll be, it'll be tall-tight to see it. you know, two unicorns on one team. That'd be cool. He's turning 37 in September. And so the thing I keep saying about this looming suns trade that we're all expecting wherever he goes, you're trading for him for a one to two year window. Really? I mean, I know we're in an era when LeBron can still be amazing at 40 and everything.

But like, this is a one to two year window for the next team with Durant. So you better be one 37 year old Kevin Durant away from contention if that's the goal. and I don't know that the spurs are quite there yet. I kind of like it anyway, though. Like, it'd be just be fun to see him and Wembe together. And listen, the sons are not going to recoup anywhere near what they sent out to get Kevin Durant. That's clear. And I don't know what they are going to get.

But it may not cost nearly as much to get him as people think. Because, again, and I hate to keep harping on it, but he's 37 in September. Which is why he's not the person to trade. I don't. Which is why the son shouldn't just trade him. They just trade David Bunger. because you're not going to get anything for Katie. Absolutely.

Absolutely. And they won't and they keep saying it. And Ishbya keeps saying it. But that is absolutely the move for them right now because you're not getting enough for Durant to get help for Booker to be a contender again. It's just not happening. And they've got a lot more work to do. And by the time they get all that stuff done, Booker's going to be moving out of his prime. So, yeah.

By the way, Ishby is talking a lot of shit about how he doesn't really hold influence in the front office and that he's going to listen to other people while. Like literally, no one lies in our face more than that. be in these days. Anyway, go ahead, Cliff. Next question. All right. Let's get Howard. Peterborough awaits. Let's get Howard over there.

All right, real ones. What are real ones? This is Edward from the south side of San Antonio. My question is, with championship windows closing faster and faster due to CBA, what playoff exit team needs to make moves faster the faster? Whoa. To make moves the faster and what team can wait? What teams are?

He's saying basically because the CBA is forcing teams to break up so soon now. Yeah. Who needs to get it done immediately before they get broken up by second apron bullshit and who can wait? I think of like the Pistons and the Grizzlies' teams that are like they're still young enough and like not like the, I mean like the Grizzlies have already paid guys, but like the Pistons haven't, right? The pistons are okay. Urgency? You could say it was going to be the Celtics, but now Tatum's out. So like they're going to probably, you know, take two steps back anyway this coming season.

They're going to trade some guys. They're going to try to get their cap right while Tatum's out because they're not a. contender anyway. The Warriors absolutely have urgency on both the age and CBA fronts. The Knicks have have urgency for sure. Maybe that's part of why Tibbs was fired last week. But like the Knicks have an extraordinarily expensive payroll because, you know, Brunson maybe, you know, he took his quote unquote discount, but he's making a ton. Towns is making a ton. O. G. Anobie's making a ton. And the calves. The calves are on that list, too. There's plenty of around the league about how long they can keep that forcing together.

I would say Houston. Because like if they don't get Janus, I don't think it's the end of the world. I think that they'll still be, you know, they still have flexibility to get somebody else. Should be Devin Booker, but, you know, whatever. But like, I think that's a team if you were to say a team that could, that could afford to wait. Because they do have a good team. And then Amman is just going to be great. If Amin turns into what Ra expects them to be, what I expect to be, what a lot of people,

who are on the league expects them to be, they should be in good shape. So yeah, what's the last question? The final, you want to get to the final one or do you want to get Howard off to the jet? It's gone along. Boy, got wheels up. No, what's wheels up, Howard? Beck, you got a dip. We can be doing one more.

We'll squeeze it in. Okay, all right, all right. So bear with me on this one. Let me see you here. All right. This is from Cedric Hart. Love the show. Good evening.

I'm a special ed teacher in San Diego area. First and foremost, I love your podcast. Listen to it all the time. shout out to Logan, Howard, and Rajas. All right, three quick questions. I wanted to ask about trade rumors mainly focusing on the Lakers in Phoenix. Phoenix. Looks like Devin Booker has the green light in some major hands in choosing the next coach in Phoenix.

Assuming that Kevin Durant is going next year, especially if they put him on a trading block towards the end of the trade deadline. Where do you think Kevin Durant is headed, assuming he won't be in Phoenix next year? And for Phoenix, what player or players would be a good fit to pair with Devin Booker? For the Lakers, there's a rumor that the Lakers are looking to give Brony a more. consistent regular role on that team next year. What players do you see the Lakers targeting to be a championship caliber team? I know they still need a viable big man. Thanks.

Love the show. Cedric. Cedric's been on like subreddits way too long. If he's hearing rumors that they're trying to carve out a major role for more role for like whatever. Ronnie's ready, baby. Brunny's ready. Let's go.

I seen the training videos. I've seen them. I'm just saying. The big sentence. The Ben Simmons three-point video. He don't Ben Simmons, Bronny, y' Bronte's nice. He's a good young athletic.

No, I'm not clowning. That man's been working. No, I'm talking to Logan. I'm talking to Logan. He tried to play Bronny like Ronnie. Rogers clowning too. It's fine. Listen, if you don't think that they're going to try to get him on the court more,

you're crazy. Like, whether that works out or not, I don't know. But, like, he's been working. They're trying to get, he's trying. All he can do is work. Right? Like, people are like, you've got to get your tail in the gym and work and try to get better.

and then they're going to try to get him out there. I'm telling you. I got Brian eight points per game next season. We're in a G league? Yeah. Howard. Howard. That was just me.

Wow. Yes. I'm saying. Wow. Is he going to get enough shots to get? Is he going to get enough shots to get eight points a game? No, anyways. In the NBA, no.

Howard, do you want to get algorithmic? Lula. Do you want to get algorithmic? What the fuck? I was fucking up, bro. I was too tired. Keep that cliff. Yeah, keep that part.

I thought you were buffering again. Do you want to get... Do you want to get aggregated? Do you want to get aggregated? You get aggregate. I don't need to get aggregated again. I've done enough. Who do I think...

I don't know where he's going, but I think that... Durant? Durant. I don't know where he's... I have... Dude, I have no good guess. Really. I mean, Gambo and Phoenix

was pretty locked in on Phoenix said that Kevin's friend he told a friend that told him that he's going to San Antonio but like I don't know I give the credence because Gambo is like usually on his shit so like I'm not so I don't know

I don't think there's a clear obvious landing spot there's a bunch of places that kind of makes sense but again like we don't know how much anybody's willing to give up for him at this age of his career knowing that he's a short term rental yeah I saw Stein put out like Toronto but then like is Toronto really trying to win if they go get Kevin Durant away from like contending again. Right. Exactly. Like, I don't know. I just feel like it's all sad than like a guy that's as great as KD is going out

like this. That's all I got for that question. I wanted him to, I wish he would have accepted that trade to. I mean, I think the Warriors did great with Jimmy Butler, but like I wanted him to accept that trade that was proposed to him at the trade deadline. But you understand why he did it though, right? I don't care. I just, I'm just saying if there's somewhere that made sense for him, that made a lot of sense and they could have gone pretty far with him i think um i don't know if you're beating the thunder but whatever like i how many other places could you say he makes sense for right now and then they have at least a chance to make the finals with him and don't have to give up too much to get him or have enough left over after they've got like it's it's hard i don't have a good guess for this um

see the apron fucks up everything Howard the apron fucks up everything no kevin durant being 37 years old and needing to be traded. Like, that's the bottom line. Like wherever. It doesn't even, it's not even an apron issue. That hurts. KD for Paul George.

Just do it. You wish. Wait, Cliff, you just fuck out of here, bro. We're not going to do this. All right. We'll do this in the pre-in at the post pod meeting. Rogers fall asleep.

Howard has to catch a flight. We'll see you guys on Friday. That's been another edition of Real Ones. All the shits. Talk to you guys soon. Real ones mailbag at gmail. We're answering your mailback questions on Friday. Talk to you soon.

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