The Ringer NBA Show - Will Steph Curry Win Another Title? Plus: NBA All-Star Discontent and COVID-19 Policy Confusion | Real Ones

Episode Date: February 8, 2021

Logan and Raja are joined early this week by the Mad Hooper, The Ringer’s Jomi Adeniran, who has something to say about Lakers sophomore Talen Horton-Tucker (0:01). Then they get into the confusion around the NBA's COVID policy that caused Kevin Durant to be pulled in and out of the Raptors-Nets game on Friday (8:30) and the fairly widespread player discontent regarding the NBA’s plans to hold an All-Star game in Atlanta (19:30). Finally, they discuss Steph Curry’s 57-point performance in a loss to the Mavericks on Saturday and whether he will ever win another NBA championship (43:45). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: Jomi Adeniran Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So we're back on the real ones, and I have the mad Hooper, and quite frankly, he's pretty mad. He's in Los Angeles right now. He has on his W&B hoodie. He is a big time Lakers fan, big time Sparks fan, but he is mad. I am with Jemmy, the mad Hooper. Jomey, why are you mad? So I'm going to tell you why I'm mad, Logan. I got two reasons why I'm mad. First, your T.HT agenda, all right? I came in a group chat. I was like, hey, this T. T.H.T. player can play. And he was like, no, man, it's just preseason. He just out here. you know, doing this thing because it's the preseason.

Brat, bruh. He's out here playing big minutes with LeBron James. How many second year play? First of all, he really a rookie. He didn't really play last year a lot. How many guys with that little of experience out here playing big minutes with LeBron James? They don't do that.

That doesn't happen for him, all right? He's in the third most used lineup for the Lakers, right? And they got a plus minus of 15.7, all right? How many second year players have that? They don't, all right? He got a bag on both sides of the ball, all right? He can finish with the reverse layers. He got the step back.

He can dime, all right? And on defense, he's long. You can put anybody in front of him. They're not getting past him, okay? He got West Matthews, all right? A great NBA vet glued to the bench. West Matthews can't see the floor, not even in Brian Scalabrini minutes. Okay?

He makes mistakes. Sure. All right, but he's young, but he's the Lakers future. All right? Don't forget. Frank Vogel trusts him. LeBron trust him. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Wait, we have another mad Hooper that has just walked into the building. Why are you mad? I'm going to tell you why I'm mad. Let me tell you why I'm mad, son. First of all, Wesley Matthews, I question how much he got in the tank. So the fact that T.A., who the hell is THT? And then secondly, the fact that West Matthews is glued to the bench is squarely on West Matthews shoulders. And then you will come out here talking about he's the face of the franchise moving forward.

They got a cat named Anthony Davis over there, man. What are we talking about? Hey, we're not talking about Anthony Davis right now. We talk about T.A.T. T.H. She's the future. Andy Davis 27. You know, he's a little hurt right now. You know what I'm saying?

He's going to be all right. Anthony Davis is going to be a Laker legend. All right. All right. All right. Secondly, and this is more like what you did to me, you lied on me, Logan, Logan and Murdoch. You lied on me when you talked about me. You said I disrespect to Coos. I never said nothing about Kyle Coos, but that's my guy.

He's playing great. He played great in the bubbles. He's playing girl right now. He's rebound. He's playing defense. All right. Why would I pick my two NBA championship sons against each other? I would never do that, all right?

So put some respect on my name and put some respect on THT's name. That's all I got. Rowan's up next. Yeah, man. So speaking of the Mad Hooper, I think I'm a bit of the Mad Hooper right now. You know why? Because my audio was messed up for the first 15 minutes. You want to know why that happened?

because I put the mic in the wrong record thing on the Zoom. That's my bad. I did that. Sasha's giving me the look. Roger's giving me the look. Even Jomey's giving me the look right now. And I deserve it, okay, guys? But it was a really, really great episode.

For the first to 15 minutes, I got a little Zoom audio. It's not as great as the pristine audio that Sasha usually puts together. But it was a great show. Tap in. What's Bob and Rowan. This is Logan Murdoch here with Roger Bell. I was just a little perturbed. Are you mad at it?

Super Bowl right now? I'm a little salty at Super Bowl. Yeah. I mean, not salty. I told you, I, like, I found myself cheering for TB12 more that he was in a Bux uniform than I did when he was with the Patriots. I always associated those two as like one entity. They are not for me. Like, I can cheer for Tom. I just can't cheer for the Patriots. So I'm not that salty. You know what I'm salty about, dog? You want to tell me, I'm going to tell me what I'm mad. You want to what I'm at? People are hella sensitive, dog. Like, we just live in a real world where like people are hell of sensitive. I'm going to leave it at that. Sensitivity is off the charts these days.

So you're not a fan of Ralph Trasmid, is what you're saying? You don't like that song? You don't know. The dude who sings sensitivity. Oh, what did you say, Ralph Tresvan? Ralph Trisvan. Yeah. Trezvan, bro.

It's Trezvan. Okay. You got a fan of that song? Yeah, I mean, look, in a time where, like, sensitivity was kind of like, you know, not an everyday word on your sleeve type of thing. Like, that was, you know, it was a cool song. But now, like, it's, like, it's, more than norm.

Like, sensitive. Like, we just all sensitive and in the feelings and, like, came. Everything is offensive. Come on, B. I'm just, all right. That's why I'm mad. I ain't saying no names you ask why I'm mad. That's why I'm mad.

Okay. All right. That's why you mad, son? Yeah, I like a little grit in my world, dog. I like a little controversy in my shit. Apparently so. Apparently so, right? You like controversy, Roger?

Oh, a little controversy in my shit. All right, man, back to the Super Bowl. It was weird for me before we get to the shits. Because I grew up a Raiders fan. Still, you know, the Al Davis 30 for 30 came out. I had all the propaganda going, you know what I mean? All the Raiders propaganda was just came back up at my bones. You know what I mean?

The Autumn Wind is a Raider, right? But I got to watch the Chiefs and I got to watch Tom Brady play football. It was very hard to watch and root for anything. And on top of that, the Super Bowl was kind of mid. It wasn't really that fun to watch. Oh, it was trash to watch. I mean, and you can be, be honest, it was garbage to watch. Unless you were a, yeah, it was garbage to watch.

The reps were like trash. The Chief's defense was trash. How many times are you going to hold, my G? You think all of those? I mean, that's another story. You think I felt like. No, they weren't all. They were not.

That's why I said the rest were trashed. They were trashed. But also, they didn't steal the game, but like, can we, can we let them play? Like, I'm a hashtag. let them play. The receivers were trash. They couldn't catch anything. The chief receivers were trashed.

Like, my Holmes is out here. He's like, he's like in the action movie when the dude is like diving when he's shooting the guns. He was throwing a football. It's like, you know what I mean? He was, it was unbelievable. This dude threw a ball like laying on his belly, like suspended in midair, 30 yards on a dime.

Hit him in a face mask. Hit him in a face mask, bro. And Tom Brady was dope, though. I'm not getting, like, Tom was, Tom did what you expect a goat to do. Like, it didn't look like Patrick Mahomes with them crazy throws, but he was dope. He was dope. He was also 72 years old. Tom Brady is 72 years old.

So, like, I get it if you can't be diving on the floor like that and you can't throw the ball between your legs on a dime. Like, I get it if you're Tom Brady. I have a quick question for you, before we get this shit. Patrick Mahomes or Aaron Rogers when it's all said to that? Patrick Mahomes. I think. Like you're talking about for me right now or you said when the career's over,

all set in there? When the career's over. I just a quick predict. I'm going, I'm going Patrick Mahomes. I mean, what's Aaron Rogers got one Super Bowl? Pat's been in two.

Yeah, I think I'm going to take Pat Mahomes at the end of the day. You? I'm going to Pat Mahomes as well. I'm going for the young and right now, but just the throws that he makes, man. And it's the same feeling that I have when I saw when Aaron Rogers

would have those crazy throws. But it's on a different level, bro. It's on a way different level, man. have you ever seen Aaron Rogers and I'm with you because Aaron Rogers is electrifying with some of the stuff he can do have you ever seen him lay on his belly suspended in the air

and rifle a ball 30 yards down the field and put it on someone's face mask like that's it no and that was the best throw of the night was an incompletion but also did you see the other throw that he threw to Tyree Kill in the first half where he's going across his body bro on the toward to the other

to his left side also hit him in the face mask. Also hit him in the face mask. Incredible throws. Correct. Incredible throws. Okay. This is not a football podcast.

Let's get to the shit. So, you know, watching basketball last week. And, you know, obviously COVID became a storyline in Brooklyn. So watch the game. And, you know, watching Twitter, you know, because that's what I do. I don't know, you were on Twitter. I don't know what's going on with you on Twitter. But I was watching Twitter.

And I see that Kevin Durant is not going to play due to safety protocols, as I think that's what they call it. And then, because he was exposed to COVID, right? And then I see he's available to play and he's on the bench, right? And then someone close to the team comes out as positive for COVID, right? who's close to Kevin Duran. And then they take Kevin Duran off the floor.

And now he is not going to play for a week, right? But the team employee who tested positive for COVID is around the team all the time, right? And I also want to say that Kevin has been testing negative

and also has antibodies. I was reported by the ESPN Malika Andrews. I've heard the same. But it just seems like a weird, it seems like a very weird thing that went on in Brooklyn, right? Because you have a guy that has tested positive for COVID before, right?

But it's tested negative. He's around a team employee who was around the team all the time, around the team all the time. So I feel a little uneasy about a game being played that night, right? Should I be, should I be, how should I feel about?

this? Did they lead take the right approach with taking with the way that they did this? No. I mean, I don't know, but I think where you need to... I don't know what the right approach is, but I don't think this necessarily was the right approach. Yeah, look,

I don't work for the CDC. I'm not doctor. So all I can do is all I can do is say to you and any other fan out there, just it is what it is. It is, man. The NBA has taken their stance. Like, we're about this paper. We're going to get the paper. We've had this discussion on air. We are going to do the best that we can with the hand that we've been dealt. But at the end of the day, the bottom line is important to us. This is our business. And the show will go on. And so you see, that's the approach they're taking. You know, I think if Kevin Durant wasn't Kevin Durant and he was some ancillary piece on the end of the bench, He wouldn't have even been out there if that makes sense to you. Like they would have just told him,

hey, man, you just need to chill. But again, this is about, you know, the bottom line and teams that you, you know, theoretically should have a chance to win a championship and national,

it was it, was it a national TV game? I believe so. I believe so. Yeah, like all of that goes into, it factors into the equation, man.

And, and again, the NBA has told you. And, and, you know, sometimes when people keep trying to tell you who they are, you got listen,

right? You got to listen, dog. They're telling, This is who we are. I think there's a distinct difference. They're showing who they are. They're not telling us who they are.

They are definitely showing us. Is that fair? That is very fair. Okay. I just, if you're Kevin in that situation, because he was pissed, you can see it on the sidelines.

You could see it, you know, through reporting. He was pissed that this happened, that you just put him on the floor. I mean, we know that he's negative, but been exposed to COVID,

right? and then you put them on the floor for all these people, and then you're like, well, no, you've got to leave. And then it just seems like there isn't anything that is fluid going on right now. I don't know what the process is right now. I just, I feel like the NBA for the first time, their rollout of things is just not working right now. And I guess that's just something that has to do with the virus,

but it's just not, I don't know, has the confidence all erode, everything that we've given them during the bubble, has that eroded in your eyes? In terms of goodwill. You know, goodwill. They had someone's goodwill going into the bubble. And then now it's just like NBA, bro. What's going on?

It hasn't eroded for me. I'm sure there are people out there who might say that it's eroded. It hasn't eroded. I mean, I think I, you know, I understand. In our house this weekend, my son woke up Saturday morning, my oldest son, sore throat, congested nose. Well, he's got COVID, right? In our mind.

So we're like, oh, smack, immediate run out, like a PCR test and a rapid test, right? Then right back into the room, straight quarantine him and his younger brother who were always together in their separate rooms, straight quarantine mode, everyone in them. So the rapid test was negative. It didn't matter. Like, you're staying in your room. We don't know. They come up false all the time.

You can't be around your younger brother and sister. The PCR test came back like this morning, early, negative for both of them. My wife's still going in the room with a mask going because he's still got a switch like we don't know. You know what I mean? There's so much uncertainty. And that's, I give the NBA the benefit of the doubt that this is, these are just uncharted waters, uncharted waters.

Like no one really knows, you know, what the right answer is to that when you're trying to run a business. And your business is putting talent on the floor and providing an entertainment, providing entertainment for people, you know, whether it be in person or on TV. Like, there are things that have to be fluid. So they didn't ruin anything for me. But Logan, we talked about this and I want, if you were going to be outside of the bubble, there was no way you were going to be able to have the control that you had. And I, you know, I just still think that, and no, I'm not a player anymore.

so I hate to speak for them, but you could have done multiple little bubbles, man. Like it could have been a whole new NBA look if you really, if that was paramount, safety and health was paramount. I think that, and I don't want to give credit to Sasha for bringing this up, there's also loopholes in this system, right?

There's also, it's not a black and white system, and I think that that's what sometimes frustrates me, right? It's just not a black and white system. It's just not a cut and dry system. And that's something that they presented to us in the beginning, of the season of like, you know, if you have COVID, this is what happens.

If you're exposed to COVID, this is what happens. Or if someone on your campus exposed to COVID, this is what happens, right? And this doesn't seem like a black and white system. But I think the thing I'm most annoyed with is not even just this thing that happened with Kevin, and we're going to get to this more in depth in a second, but that fans are so close to these players, right? And I'm not even mad at like fans. them way up in the upper boat as cool, but like, you're putting them at risk in general.

You're putting the bag at risk and the product at risk maybe every other night, right, depending on these markets. And I think that's the bigger issue as what you're seeing is like, you know, LeBron has to yell at a fan court side, right? She is not, she has her mask down while yelling. Which is a pet peeve of mine. Honestly, when I just see people in traffic with their mask, on their neck and they're not, it's like an accessory.

It's not even something of the use. Like, yo, what are you doing right now? Please put your basket. Anyway, besides a point. But when you see that, right, you can't be, you can't be surprised that people are turning up with COVID. Like, you're not, you're not mitigating all of the risk, MBA, right? If the sole purpose is protecting the asset, I don't believe that you're doing that.

Is that fair? Can I be more annoyed about that than the Kevin thing? I think it's very fair because you are putting people in more jeopardy than they otherwise would be by allowing fans into the arena and sitting that close to them. I think that's a fact. I mean, the more people you bring in that building, the closer they are to the players, I think all of that speaks for itself. So you can be annoyed with it, Logan.

I would just say, again, having been part of the machine, And just, you know, knowing that the league overall is about making money. That's how we all eat and that's how they all eat. And so if you can't fulfill your obligations as a league, you know, no one eats. And so they have, they have to do this. This has to be a moving target. There have to be, you know, policies there to put in place. And then if, you know, if they have to be augmented or changed or maybe we skirt it once.

I mean, that's going to happen because the show must go on. That's true. And especially, and I think it goes back to your point also of just certain players just get certain privileges, right? Because they're good. Like, Kevin is a face of this league. You have to want to put him on the floor whenever. But I do, you do want to have your best players on the floor when they need to be on the floor. And that's just, that's no matter what. If they're healthy, you want them on the floor. Under normal circumstances and pandemic. No, yeah. I don't know that they afforded KD any special treatment other than we're going to do everything we can to see if you can play in this game. While if it were number 15 and you have a close interaction, we might just say, hey, man, keep you. Like, let's stay away. We want to keep you safe, dude. We want to keep you safe, man.

Just keep you away. But, yeah, because I'm one of those dudes that said, like, if you had been leading up to this Super Bowl week and either Tom Brom. Brady or Patrick Mahomes had a COVID situation. I'm a believer that you rescheduled the whole thing. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? Because so to your question about whether you want talent to be on the court, yeah, I want talent to be on the court. I want to see it.

Now, those games, you know, to some degree are meaningless, like, you know, one at it, whatever the schedule is this year, 72. But big games, yeah, man, that's what you want to do. That's your product. That's what you're selling. Yeah. No, that's a fair point. That's a fair point. And I think that's also a product that you're selling is a good turning point to this All-Star game that's about to happen, which is a wild to me.

Which is like when I just told you about the NBA showing you who they are instead of telling you, this is them showing us as a consumer, as a journalist, whoever consumes this game. They're about this bread, bro. So they're going to have an All-Star game. I think that's a talk I think that's official. They're going to have an All-Star game March 7th in Atlanta, Georgia

who is, as we both know, Raja, has just been an example of all COVID protocol being followed, right? But they're having this done in Atlanta, and they're saying that you know, because it's close to Turner

who puts on the All-Star game every year, you know, It'll make sure that travel isn't hard on the TV broadcasters and things like that, right? They're going to have all these things in one place. So you just said this is this is going to be broadcast friendly. This is going to be TV personnel friendly. Right. Yeah.

So you're going to a place that's been wide open this whole, damn near this whole pandemic. And you're going to have the NBA family. there, you're going to expect them to quarantine in Atlanta, Georgia. Right. And it's supposed to just all go right and we're supposed to all just believe that this is just going to go right. I don't have any confidence in this. And also, by the way, Raja, no

player wants to do this. Yeah. No player wants to go to this. You got Kauai speaking out on this, right? You got LeBron speaking out on this. You have other players speaking out on this. No one wants this, Roger. What the hell is going on? Yeah, that's the league telling you it's your job. This is your job. Don't get this twisted.

Yeah, you have a lot of power. You have a lot of leverage. You guys are global icons. This is your job. You're going to show up and you're going to play in this All-Star game because we have obligations to fill. And you're going to be there and do your job. And so because Turner Sports said, hey, man, ESPN gets the NBA

finals, we need our big moneymaker too. That's correct. We need it. And you're going to fulfill that obligation. Now, in fairness, I haven't seen the travel guidelines or anything like that for the event. If you were saying to me, Logan, that an All-Star from whatever team is going to come with, let's say, a representative of your PR staff and, I don't know, maybe one other person. You're going to put them on a private jet, right? We're going to, everybody's going to PJ out there with you and and we're going to, you know, if you're going to make sure that everything is checked and then you're not opening it to fans, right? So this is a really contained

like two people per player type of situation. One being someone from the, from the team that has to be there to help them through the, you know, whatever the virtual media stuff is going to be, the gauntlet that that is in and of itself around All-Star game. All right. Like, hey, hey, man, maybe, but I don't, you know, so I don't know what that looks like. But if you're going to open it to fans, which I've heard they are going to, because Atlanta's one of the places where fans can be. That's where the young lady, that's where LeBron got into it the other night, right? That is where LeBron got into it with a courtside fan. Right. Well, then you can't, I mean, hey man, what are we doing? Again, I know what we're doing. But to the point, you made a few pods

ago, just, just say what it is. And, like, MBA, let's not, let's not do this dance. Just say, hey, man, we have to make this work. You know, we're, we're, money, money is a thing. fulfilling these obligations is a thing for us to continue to make money. And without the money, the league doesn't go on. You guys don't have the entertainment. We're not all millionaires and billionaires. We got to do it. And we're going to do it.

I just don't. Exactly. I think that's what I'm just annoyed with. Just be honest with me. Just do this. But it's just and also just don't tell me you care about the players, bro. Just don't care. Tell me you care.

Just don't lie. to me and tell me that and then also be like, oh, you know, maybe we could do a charitable thing to black colleges. Like, you don't need an all-star game to do that, bro. They can care about their players. They can care about their players, Logan, and still care about their money. Roger, how? Tell me how.

They care about both. Tell me how. Tell me how they care about their players. They care about both. How? Tell me how. You're not telling me how, man. I'm just saying, man.

How can they, how are they doing that? Fair. LeBron James is the base of the league. And they just had a woman. This is fair. This is fair. This is fair. You're correct.

You are correct. Okay. Listen, all right, I just got to go on my spill. If they cared about the players and also the NBA, the Players Association also agreed to this as well. So, but this is about the Players Association has agreed with this. I still don't believe players going to do this. You had Janus. You had LeBron, you had Bradley Bill.

You have all these people that have said just like, no, we don't want to do this. But the fact that you have people, courtside, yelling at players, you have fans in the arena in general, does not tell me that you care about the well-being of these players. You care about the well-being of your bread. They get into the baggage claim. That's all this is. It's the same thing as over the summer when people were like, I don't know if we're going to play for the rest of the season. I don't know what's going to happen. Then the TV money and the TV partners were like,

hey, man, y'all going to get on this court and guess what happened? You get on the court. So, okay, I'm going to give you that, right? Like maybe they don't care about their players, but players care about their money. And so if you asked the powers that be in the NBA, the guys that are going to be in the All-Star game, whether they would forego 30%, 40% of their country,

contract, I don't know what the ramifications of not playing the All-Star game is or are. I don't know what I mean. I'm not behind. I don't know what percentage of your contract that you've, you know, not fulfilled and what stipulations say you have to then give back. So, but let's say it's 35 to 40 percent of the revenue from Turner, right? And you have to give that up if you're not going to provide them an All-Star event. You won't think them cats are going to go out there and play the All-Star game?

They're going to be jogging. They're going to be giving lax a game. Lachadavical effort. Lachadaisical effort. They might do all of that, but guess where there'll be? In Atlanta, Georgia. In Atlanta, Georgia playing basketball. Because that's the way it goes.

With fans' courtside, probably. With fans' cord side, that's the way it works. I have a question for you. Now, you brought up a great point when we were talking about the James Hardin scenario and what that has to do for a, you know, lockout ramifications and things like that and what that's going to do when, you know, ownership is pissed about this. What does this do from the player's side when, you know, they're always being put at risk to, you know, line everyone else's pockets?

But it doesn't seem like their safety and their well-being is being at the forefront. Do you think that that has any ramifications at the next collective bargaining agreement? I'm sure that guys feel some kind of way. about the lack of voice that they may have as it pertains to the health and safety protocols and to use your term being put in harm's way. I'm sure they feel some kind of way about that. And so maybe there is an effort to get with the MBPA and Michelle Roberts and try to figure out what they could do. If you're not in this particular scenario with COVID being the issue, I don't know how often that's an issue during a regular NBA season, right? Like they're not,

there are not many instances where that's really a source of of contention between ownership and players because you just don't run across it that often. I thought the NBA did a good job of, you know, I think it was an incident in Utah maybe where a fan got into it. Was it with Russ Westbrook? Yeah, a couple years ago, this is player safe. In the player safety bag, I'm just speaking generally of saying, hey, we're going to get individuals like that out of the arenas.

Like we're not going to leave the players subject to somebody just. spewing, you know, vitriol and language and stuff like that at them. We'll get them up out of there. That goes to, like, player safety too. But in terms of the medical stuff, Logan, I don't know how often it's an issue if you're not in this COVID situation. And I really don't know how much they would be able to do about it. How would you feel about it if you're playing as a player right now? I'm going to give you two scenarios. One scenario, you were secured and you got, you get into the baggage claim. You got your first, like, big deal and you're on your big deal, versus you are a vet minimum guy. You are, you know, you're playing to stay in the league. What are your approaches

to how you feel about playing in this kind of environment? It's a great question. And they would be probably very, very different. Now, if I was a vet who had made most of my money, now, if I was at the beginning of that bag deal or in like the second year of that bag deal, Logan, that changes. If I'm towards the end of that bag deal, if I'm on a championship like contending team, because those windows are very small. So, you know, that's why I was saying last year with the Lakers, you want to get those games in because you don't know how long that window's open. So, you know, I would financially probably be like, we don't need to do this. But if I'm on a team that could win a championship and I'm financially, you know, set up already, um, I,

I might want to go out and try to win that ring. If I'm a young player and I haven't got anything going on, it's a no-brainer. I'm not thinking twice about this. This is, you know, this is not any, I want to be careful how I say this because I know everything is blown out of proportion. I realize that equating an NBA player to any other, like, regular job in the workforce, it's not the same financially. I'm going to, but what I'm going to say is it's not unlike.

The mindset is not unlike. This is their job. This is how they feed their family. This is how they eat. But no, this is what you've chosen to do as a career. So you've got to get out there and do it. Like now, they might have the, here's the deal. I didn't have the cash.

I know what people are going to say. Oh, you got the cash. You make so much money. Like, you can sit there and not, you know, work for a while. But when I was coming through the CBA, I didn't have a bank account. You have a bank account? Not real. I mean, it had a few hundred dollars in it when I was in the CBA.

I was only making. I was like you didn't have a bank account in general. I thought you did. Yeah, but nothing that was going to let me sit back for eight, nine months and not work. Right. So I was going to have to go out there and play basketball to try to make some bread so I could live and pay my rent. Mm-hmm. You brought up a topic that I was really, that we just came about is fans not liking players complaints about work because they make a lot of money in their eyes, right?

Did that annoy you on your end because people pocket watching and just saying, Yo, man, Roger, why are he talking mess? Because he got brave, he's set for life. Meanwhile, I'm working as such and such. You know, why he got to complain? I mean, how do you feel when you have to hear that when, I don't know if you've heard that? But if you do that, how do you feel about that, you know, what people say about you in that way? Yeah, that's, look, I understand.

I mean, I get it, man. I didn't come from money. Nobody in my family really has any real money or came from it. And so I get seeing someone make money for playing a game and being like, damn, that'd be dope. I understand that. I was fortunate enough to be able to do it, right? And the perspective on it is like, look, man, I work really, really hard at this. You know, it wasn't a, I'm not, this isn't lucky.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, they didn't put all of our names in a hat and draw straws for who gets to do this. Like, people, you know, pour their entire soul for their entire life into it. And really, in a lot of instances, you know, put eggs in one basket, which isn't prudent. But you're really that dedicated to trying to get it done. And so, you know, just because they're able to do that and make that much money, doing it doesn't mean they work any less hard than you do do do you understand what i'm saying it doesn't mean i work harder than you do but doesn't mean i work any less less than you do and i so it was i always kind of looked at it

and understood it but at the same time would tell someone hey man like i work really really hard at this man like i you know i dedicated a lifetime to this this is this is what i do and if you ask my back and my knees and stuff like that right now like i paid a price for that you do you do play you do pay the price you do but you know what i always this is when i had the beef and i don't know if i've told this story before. It's when I signed with Utah and I was walking around like a water park and, you know, a guy, I'm in West Palm Beach and a guy wants to know he's following me around the water park, like giving me shit for not signing with the Miami Heat. And the Miami Heat at the time, you know, we're going to win a championship. They didn't win it that first year, so I wasn't guaranteed it in

hindsight. But he couldn't understand and he was giving me all hell of shit for not signing the minimum deal to play with the heat. It's about championships. Like, you got to want to win a championship. Just like I gave you shit for not signing with the Lakers. Right, right, exactly. But dude took it to the next step. He was going to follow me around this water park and give me the business for not signing with the heat. And, you know, look, man, for me, three years, $10 million was a lot of money, a lot of money. And so I could not turn that down from Utah.

There was no way. I was going to play on a one-year minimum deal at that point when I could still command that kind of money from another team. And so I said to him, I said, my man, I was like, dude, you feed your family like me. I was like, you know, you work in a warehouse, man. And let's say one warehouse is offering to pay you like three times, you know, the amount of another warehouse for three years. And the other warehouse is going to pay you 33% for one year. But you know, they're going to be labeled the best warehouse, you know, in the world that one year. Like, what are you going to do?

And he sat there and looked at me like, I'm going to go to the warehouse. It's the best warehouse in the world for one year. And I was like, you're a damn lie. You're a liar. Yeah, get away from me, man. Like, cut that shit out. That's cap. Also, when someone says, hey, man, I got this work transfer from, and I work at OKC,

and I got this work transfer to go to California, you know. What's you going to do? What's you going to do, Roger? Oh, yeah. Hey, Cali, it is, baby. I'm going, going back back to Callie. People really acting like, you know, I feel like they act like you're not human beings sometimes. Like they want to push their will on to you in a lot of ways as fans.

Is that fair? I always found it. I always found it. And you tell me from your perspective because you actually, you know, could create narrative with the job that you did. Right. So I'm going to answer yours, but you answer my first. Got you. Did you all any, did you ever find it strange that a fan's perspective would align more with

ownerships than it would with labors? And especially given the fact that you're closer to the labor's financial situation, as crazy as that sounds, than you are to ownership. Yes. But it's, yes, I've always fascinated by that. Because you know what it is? I mean, it's rooted in a lot of stuff. Racism is one of them.

Like, let's keep it a buck. But it's also rooted in, they don't see those guys. They don't see the ownership. By and large, ownership is just out of the picture. idea. Yeah. Right. You know, except like Mark Cuban and, you know, in the bay like Joe Laker, but for the

most part, like most what is, CEOs, right? I don't know. I don't know the term right now, but most see people who own team, right, for lack of a better word, you don't really see them like that. You don't, you don't see them around. I don't have a voice. I don't have a face. And then all you see is these, these, these millionaires talking about they need more

millions. Right. Right. But that's, I think it's also kind of whack. I just think it's also kind of whack. Just to see that and to see like people even who work in unions talking about, man, I'm on the owner's side. Right? People who work in like, people who work at the warehouse union.

Like, man, the players union, they're too greedy. I think that's the funniest part, man. Like the people who are who are pro-union like, where are you're just tripping right now? I just, yeah, well, hey, you answered it the same way I would. I was just always, it just always was fascinated. What was my question to you, though? Did you answer my question, though?

What did you ask? You asked whether or not they saw us like people or was that? Do you feel like they see you? I don't think they see you guys sometimes as human beings sometimes. Well, you know what? It's interesting because I had a conversation with David Griffin. Kobe Altman and Trent Redden one time. And all these are really good dudes, great general managers, right?

But none of them played in the NBA. And there's nothing wrong with that. They're all my good friends of mine. But we were trading Dion Waiters. And the deal didn't go down in time for us to trade Dion prior to the start of a game in Philly. And I was thinking about Dion as the human being. Like, look, man, he's at home. he's probably got, you know, 50 people in the building,

and they all want to see him play. And he's, you know, he's been a little salty as of late, but he's really happy to be home. So if let's just trade him before he, you know, gets in the middle of the game and it turns into like a spectacle. Let's do it early enough where he could tell people not to come to the game. Now, things don't always work out the way you want them to work out. This one was out of their hands.

The deal came down late. But I had to sit in the back, pull Dion as his name was getting announced off the court after the anthem. They announced Dion Waiters, and I'm literally pulling him off the court. He can't play. That was what it was. But then I had to sit him in the back per NBA policy.

The deal wasn't consummated or whatever. And he couldn't know where he was being traded to for like an hour and a half, Logan. And I had to sit there with this man looking at me in the face like, yo, what is going on? And I can't tell him anything. So the news is the news out there, though? No, the news is not out. This is just, I am in the front office. So I know what's going on.

but the news isn't out. Dion has just been pulled off. He's not playing tonight. He's a DnP. And so I finally told Dion like, look, this is going to be a good situation for you. Like, I don't, I can't tell you,

but I don't want you to think that you're going to be, you're getting shipped off to like, you know, anywhere, you know, that wouldn't be a good situation for you. You got to trust me. He was salty.

Probably didn't trust me. And that's fine. The point was I had to go back and tell Kobe, um, Griff and Trent, my side of it, which was like, you're not,

you're not, you're treat. You treat these dudes like they're commodities, man. These are just pieces on a monopoly board to be shuffled around. These are human beings, man. Like, this cat has other human beings at the game. And so it's interesting. Who also don't know what's going on right now.

They don't know what's going on. They don't know what is injured. They don't know what is going on right now. They can't text him. So to your question about fans asking, I mean, fans treating sometimes athletes in general, like human beings, a lot of times front offices don't. They just, they don't take that into account. Now, I'm not saying at the end of the day, that's their job.

Because their job is to produce for the owner. But there are a lot of instances they don't see players as human beings. They, like, they see them as assets. And they would call them assets. Like, this is an asset. You know what I mean? Like, literally, not a human being. That feels out of pocket when people call assets and they say assets in the marketplace and things.

That just feels like, dog. What are we doing? You saw it. You saw the new GM, and I don't mean to turn us into football, but you've seen that man go up to the press conference a couple of weeks ago talking about Deshaun Watson and call him the player. Yeah. Like that's, what?

What do you mean, sir? My name is Deshawn Watson. You know that. You know that because you see it on that sign, on that billboard, on this. I've built this stadium. You know what I mean? You see, this is your franchise, bro. Nah, the player.

And so, no, Logan, a lot of instances they don't. Now, good fans do see you as human beings. Like the ones that you make, I make connections to a lot of great fans in my day. Like, I was fortunate enough to have, like, sections called like the bell tower and stuff like that where I'd wave and they'd ring bells. And, you know, I'd do stuff for them. And they'd send my kids books and different cool stuff. Those are people that are invested in you as a human, not the name on the front of your jersey, the name on the back of the jersey. Do you know what I mean?

What is the difference between, uh, And we'll get out of there before this. What's the difference between a small town fan versus a big city fan for you? Right. Because have you been, I know you played for Philly, but that seems like a small town fan vibe too as well, right, even though it's a big city. But what do you think the difference is between the two? Yeah, I think small town fans are more passionate about their team. Philly's different than Salt Lake because Salt Lake at the time when I was there the first time, the only other professional.

thing they had going on was the Salt Lake City Bs, which was a minor league baseball team. So out to the Salt Lake City Bs. I have a t-shirt. Facts. I got a hat. But so everything that that community had in terms of like pro sports and motion was invested in the jazz. You know, you had the Uts and you had BYU, but everything was jazz on a pro sports level. So, you know, it's all heightened, right? And then, you know, Philly has all its pro outlets, a bunch of college teams, but, you know, it's just a city that embraces sport and an identity, right? Like a toughness, a grit and appreciation. Like, you ain't got to score 40 a game for them.

Like, it's great if you do. But if you come out there and embody the things that they embody, they get down with you, man. And, like, I love Philly for that reason. I never played in a massive market like New York and stuff like in L.A. But it seems more of like their games or... it seems it seems like there's way more stuff going on, right? Even here in the heat market,

I know they're diehard heat fans, they're great fans, but there's so many things to do here in Miami. You know, there's so many different... That's why they always late. That's why they always late to the games. Why are you out? I mean, hey, like, why wouldn't I be over there on the beach until 7.30 when it's a 7.30 tip?

Like, I'll roll in in the second quarter. But that's the difference. I mean, the passion, I think, and not for everyone, but for, you know, you can, you can, you can feel that because there's some great fans in, in major markets like New York and L.A. and Miami. I don't mean to make it like there aren't, but you could feel it when you play for the jazz. You could, you could feel it, you know? Right. Word. All right. Let's take a quick break and, um, want to talk about something that's, you know, near and dearer to where I live. So,

ha. Whoa. Well. Ha. Yeah. What's popping, man? We're back. I'm here to talk about one man who's, I don't know if you know this is really popping in a bay. Can you guess who this person is, Rasha?

Mack Dre. One more guess. Two more guesses. All right. One last guess. Steph Curry, man. The man is on fire. Bro.

Saturday. Did you see the game? I did see the game. I did. 57 points, bro. 57 points, bro. They lost the game to Luca, who had 42, but it came down to the wire.

Like, Steph bawled out. Draymond also balled out as well, had 15 assists. Dremont played well. He did play well. But I feel like we haven't put a lot of respect on Steph's name

over the last year or so. You and I have? Me and you have. But there were people that say, and I love this guy, they were saying that Dame was a better player than Steph. And I don't know if that was ever the case.

Are you, yeah? See? I'm not, I may, I don't know. I don't remember. But there was a time when Steph was out of sight. That's all it was. Steff was out of sight. Steph was out of sight.

I think that was the only thing, right? I feel like the Steph still, even after this, he has a 57 point game, has a 62 point game on his resume. The Warriors are in the eighth seed, which I didn't believe that they were going to be able to do this season without Clay. Is Steph, are we giving him enough respect right now? No. No, he's not getting the national respect that he deserves right now. He's a problem. He's, he, you know what, this makes me, this is to some degree.

And I know Steph wouldn't trade the years that he had KD there and they won championships, but because that's ultimately what it's all about. But let's say he didn't ever have to defer to anyone. What would that have looked like? you know what I mean? Like I would like to know because what he does and I'm going to keep it a buck

he would be I would be so livid guarding him because I always felt I didn't mind if you were like 6-6-225 giving me buckets but if you were a little dude man like the first time I played Steve Nash

I was with I was with Philly and we went to Dallas and they asked me I was like I am going to lock his ass up. And he lit me up. And I was so angry.

What did you do? What does Steve do to light you up? Light your ass up? What did you do? Just chop me to pieces. Like pick and rolled me to death. You know, a little quicker than I thought he was. A little stronger than I thought he was.

You know, just they, you're judging a book by its cover. And don't get that twisted. Like, step is the same way, faster than you think. Except step is going to, you're going to, you're going to, you're going to to shoot it like some stupid shit and it's going to go in. He is, but his, you know why he's able to like, like get everybody off balance to where he can create that space all the time? It's because he's a damn good driver and finisher.

And so when he presents that little wiggle, like there's part of you this like, oh, he can get by me. You know, if there was never a threat of him getting by, you could kind of stay up. But he's always, I mean, he's really, really good to the point I was making, just better than you think he is at, at driving. finishing around the bucket. He's a problem. I'd hate to play against him. Are you saying that if Steph didn't have Kevin, because I think this, I think he already had the greatest statistical season efficiency in terms of efficiency of all time, right?

Right. The year before Kevin got there. But I think if Kevin does it come, there's a season where he averages like 35 a game. Absolutely. At the peak of his powers, because he was at the peak and then you bring another guy at his peak and he defers to that guy. But I think if you, if that doesn't happen, I don't know if they win as many championships, maybe they get one more, I don't know, but Steph is on another level in terms of scoring. I tend to agree.

I don't know what number he averages, but let's just say 35 a game, right? There was a moment in time where Steph Curry was, you know, LeBron never seen. the face of the league, you know, title. Like, he never gave that up. But there was a point in time where, and Steph was trending. Do you know, like, Steph was trending.

Steph got everybody in the bay weren't underarmors, bro. Yeah, that's, okay. There you go. So that's something in itself. Let's say he doesn't team with KD and he has these statistical numbers, and statistical years that you speak of. Do, like, are we talking to? about, I mean, Luke is phenomenal, and so is Janus. They do crazy things. But like,

Steph would still be on that Mount Rushmore of like the league. And I feel like you and I may want to put him there, but nationally, he doesn't get that now. Do you know what I'm saying? Nationally, it's kind of- I think people forget how he galvanizes the whole NBA when he's falling out of control. It's the Steph effect. When he balls out, people want to watch. His 40 Or even his 35 hit different than a lot of dudes in the league, right? Like, if he's going off, you better get to the television. And I felt like I forgot who tweeted this out. I want to get the credit for that.

But anyway, somebody tweeted out, it's like, I think it was Zetes from SB Nation. But he was saying every time you watch Steph play, it feels like the first time you watch Steph play when he's on. Yeah. Yeah, that's, yeah. Right? It's an interesting take on that. Yes, because it is. You are you're glued to whatever your, whatever device you're watching that on.

It's crazy. And I've seen it live, man. Like, there's just a tie just turns when he's just going off, right? The fans are a little bit louder. The energy is a little bit more lit in the arena, you know? It's just different. Now, my question, again, is, though, how much does he have to do for this team, not even to be a contender, but to at least be a factor?

because he scored at 57 points and they lost. Yeah, they're not a factor. They're not a fact. There's nothing he can do everything that he could do. And they're not going to be a fact. They're not beating the Lakers in a series. I don't think they're beating the clippers in a series. I mean, they could, you know,

the problem for them is going to be hovered around eight or seven and you're going to have to draw one of those two. You know, if you got in at three, well, that's, who's that, the like two three probably lakers clippers and jazz this year probably probably yeah right i don't think they beat the jazz either but so if you were in four or five i can see them maybe getting out but you're hovering around eight seven like i don't think you're getting out so for that reason steff's having a phenomenal year but i don't think they're they're going to be a threat i think that they are just so hand-pecked by this by their salary situation man you guys got

you got like three max guys damn near you have you have Andrew Wiggins, who was, you know, not a max dude. You got, you got Steph who absolutely is a max dude. You got Clay who was max due for that team, but you can't really do anything because, excuse me, you can't really trade off that Andrew Wiggins contract. Nobody really wants it. Andrews having a great season, but nobody really wants that contract. People don't really want that Draymond contract either.

you're going to have to package a lot of your assets to get a guy. But I don't know if that takes them over the top. Like, say if they trade for Bradley Bill. Mm-hmm. Does that really do anything? I don't think so. Mm-hmm. Right?

Only think short of trading for like Janus or like LeBron James or, I don't know, Kevin Durant. I don't see them getting back to contender status. or a championship status with their cap situation right now? I don't know what their books look like. I don't know what they're looking. I think their window, they've reset that. So what you have to do is when Clay gets back,

see what that looks like, with the pieces you have, see what him and Steph and Draymond look like together. And then you can reassess, Logan, because I don't know where you, I mean, if Clay coming back, puts you at four in the west maybe, right? Like if that puts you back at four in the west,

you're not that far, you're not that far away. You're not as far away as we're making it sound like you are right now. It's just Clay doesn't, I mean, Steph just doesn't have the all-around help. I mean, again, Wiggins is having a great year. Draymond played great, but you have to have someone else there. So I don't know that there's a move to be made for them right now. Like just go ahead of this kind of house money this year. You're playing with Steph.

No Clay. Let's see what that looks like next year. and then reassess. But the bigger point for me is, and I, people, I know people hit me with the old curmudgeon, and I don't mean to be like that. I'm not trying to sound like the old dude.

I have no beef with the money that players are paid today versus what we were paid. That's not an issue for me. I understand, because I was making a lot more than people played a year, like a decade before me. What I have a problem with is people being paid, you know, in slots and categories,

which I don't think they are. And a lot of times teams get, like, kind of leveraged your, With a salary cap, that has a lot to do with just having a salary cap. Yeah, but I mean, look, man, I, I'm just, maybe that's why I could never do that job. If I don't, if I don't, maybe it's why I could never do that job. Like, I'm not paying, I'm not, if you, if you're not a max guy and I don't think you're a max guy and Logan's going to pay you max money, then go ahead. Logan, go ahead, bro.

Logan paid a man max money. I'm not doing it. You know what I mean? And there are a lot of guys that operate like that in the NBA. Maybe they're smarter than me. That's fine. But I'm not paying over and over again. I just think that's a little out of pocket that you're saying that I'm the one that's going to give out the bad deals.

But okay, we move. I just said you might be smarter to me, though. I don't know. There's a lot of dudes that are clearly not max guys getting max deals. A lot of dudes that put you in some messed up spies. Like right now. And also, here's another thing to consider. And I don't know, like, I don't believe that anything is going to go bad, or that he's going to leave.

Steph is in the last year of his deal next season. That's the last year of his current deal. Now, if he ever wanted to flex his muscle, you didn't sign no extension or nothing, if he ever wanted to flex his muscles, like, hey, y'all need to get something right. Because listen, I got, I'm 32 now. I don't know how many years I got left.

Probably about five or six, at least, right? But I don't know how many years I got left. I want to win another title. I want to show I can win a title without Kevin. I don't know if that's going through his mind, but at least, at the very least, I want to win another title. That's something to consider. It's going to be interesting. Like the front office there, which was just praised out of this world for what they did, they drafted a bunch of those guys and had him on pretty team-friendly deals, right?

Well, Steph being on 4-4-44 was a game-changer. Right. It was a game. And so, I mean, you got to get credit for that. But he was injured a lot, and that's why you got him at 4-44, right? He was injured early in his career. So you were able to get a deal, so to speak, on that as the club. But what do you do now?

Like, if you're the club, right? There's the jury is out on whether you can navigate these waters. You're in sticky situations in terms of your cab space and all of that. And can you build around him, right? Because you got all the credit when it was all going well. And I asked you this question kind of before about their front office. Everything's straight when we're winning. What happens now?

Now our backs up are up against the wall. We got a little sticky situation. We got to get creative to get out of it. If Steph holds our feet to the fire, what are we going to do? I'm interested to see. I mean, part of me wants Steph to flex his muscles. I'd like to see it. I'd like to see him be like, yo, because, you know, there have been some, like, and this has been reported.

But there have been, like, some instances where, like, you know, Steph's been pissed. You know what I mean? There's been some instances where he's been like that. But he hasn't done it a number. enough to flex it like, yo, I'm Steph Curry. Y'all got me messed up. And I feel like that's so off brand for him, though. That's true.

I mean, I would love to see it because I'm that. Like I told you, I like a little, what I say to start a pod. I like, yeah, I like a little confrontation in my shit. There's been some instances where he's been pissed, right, about certain things, right? But he's just never voiced it on the level to where he's like, like, I know he was pissed about just a rollout of. of when he came back, when he was coming back from injury last season. He was just pissed about how that went about. He set a date, and he didn't get that date that he was coming back.

And he was really upset about that. I know that. But he just not, again, not on a level to where it would cause any, like, national friction of what it was definitely to leave. But there have been some things. And I think that's something to monitor, especially with him going into his last season. Now, last season on his contract. Now, Steph's great.

Steph is that does he win another title before it's all said or done? In Golden State? Are you being messy right now, Russia? I'm just saying. Are you being, are you being a little messy right now? I mean, you tell me, not in Golden State. But do you, so you think he might go. You say he might, if he wants to win a title, he has to get out of Golden State.

You said that. You said that. What did you just say? I said not in Golden State. You said, is he going to win another title? I said not in Golden State. So if you were to win another title, he would have to move on is what you're saying. Yeah, I didn't say he was going to win another title.

I just said you, you asked me he's going to win this. Okay, okay, okay. See, this is the thing. This is what I don't like about you motherfuckers on that side sometimes. You players will be like, I'll be asking guys a direct question and you guys really, but I didn't say that. But you actually did say that. But y'all going to get bad at us when we're just asking you what you said in following up

and trying to make sure your words are correct, but y'all want to get mad at us because y'all don't, y'all want to say some controversial shit, but y'all don't want to say some controversial shit. And that's my beef with y'all. I don't think that Golden State is going to win another championship

in that Western Conference in the next, I don't know, four years. And so for that reason, I think that's kind of Steph's window, maybe, probably. And so I don't, I think. Weisman would have to turn into David Robinson. Like, if that happens, if that happens, bro, I mean, I'll reserve the right to, like, change my opinion. But, but, you know, that's a lot.

I'd say, I'm with you. I say no unless Wiseman just turns into the best center in the league and just, he's hitting jumpers. It's just, he's cash all the time. But, yeah, man. Well, it's been another edition of the real ones. I want to thank Jomey, the Mad Hooper, for coming on. He had a lot to say about THT. Oh, my God.

Tell me what you mad, son. I'm not mad, son. Hey, listen, I cheer. That boy came up through the G League, man. I messed with him, too. I ain't even going to, I'm not even going to throw. Yes. We just got a resume needs to work.

That's all I'm saying, though. It's early in the game. All right, all right, all right. I just want to shout out. Also, you know, take out all our other podcasts. A new podcast that just came on, Black Girl's Songbook with Danielle Smith. Which has been, this is really good, man.

Shout out Lonnie, who's producing the hell out of it. Shout out Trudeau, who's also working on that. TD, who's also working on that as well. We also have the mismatch that you can go ahead and check out. You can also go ahead and check out group chat, check out the answer, check out the mismatch, check out everything. Check out Ringer Music Pod with my, the Ringer Music Show, excuse me, with my guy Charles Holmes and R2C2 with who,

Roger Bell. That would be Vallejo legend Cici Sabathia. Damn right. We will see you guys on Thursday. Tap in.