The Ringer NBA Show - Winners and Losers of the Offseason So Far. Plus, What to Expect From Summer League and Team USA. | Group Chat

Episode Date: July 10, 2024

Justin, Rob, and Wos look ahead toward Summer League, and the players that they’re most looking forward to seeing in Vegas (07:42). Then, they gauge their excitement for Team USA and how the team will fare against a competitive field (22:23). After, they delve into the biggest winners and losers of the offseason (35:27), the most intriguing free agents (60:52), and some bold predictions for next season (66:19). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Eduardo Ocampo Social: Keith Fujimoto Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, my name is Dave Gonzalez, and I haven't read any of the books in George R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire. I'm Joanna Robinson and I've read every book in Georgia R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire. And I'm Neil Miller and I have also read those very heavy books. Years ago, we hosted a Game of Thrones podcast called A Storm Spoilers, and we're thrilled to head back to Westrose to cover the second season of House of the Dragon on the Trial by Content feed. We'll be using our book knowledge to dive deep into each episode and answer your lingering questions. So send us a raven every week to Trial by Content at Gene. email.com. Follow and subscribe to trial by content on Spotify or wherever you get your

podcast to join us on Thursdays where these two will explain to me which Targaryen is right. The group chat, I am Justin Barrier joining me. As always, always, Rob Mahoney, Big Was, last pod before your boys head out to Las Vegas to take over Summer League. I've been waiting for the Kauai tap on the shoulder from both the ringer and the NBA combined being like, listen, we don't think you're ready for this. I don't think I'm going to get it, but there's still a couple hours left here. I do think you're ready for a good cabana rental, just chilling out by the pool, trying to relax a little bit. I could see that in your future.

Can we expense that? I think we 100% can expense that. Can we wise expense that? That's for sure true. I think you should at least show up for the first day, Justin. If only to have your yearbook picture taken, a la Kauai Lender did with Team USA at the training. kit. Well, I'm definitely showing up for the first day because we have something special plan for the nighttime. We're having a little group chat team dinner and I'm expecting to be fed by

not just one co-host but two simultaneously because we're settling some debts at the kitchen together. We are settling some bets. I hope you order kind of a longer noodle pasta. We're going out for an Italian dinner because I would really, I mean, I would really like to to twirl that for you on the fork, to really, really set the stage, really get you started off right with your Summer League experience. I think you had the right idea. I mean,

if you want to throw a little leprecon hat action in there, I still technically have the beard. I bought it and also expense that as well. You just Spotify? Just to see you eat it. Wait, you bought leprechaun gear? Yeah, because the initial conceit was like, I was going to wear the lepercon stuff.

when it wasn't assured that the nugs were going to lose that. So I was getting a little too overly excited about the opportunities. You were so shook that the Nuggets might win that you bought the Lepricon gear? This is when the Nugs were down to O. And we're starting to toss around ideas about how we could pay this off. It was initially me wearing the Lepricon outfit just as like a pop sort of braggadocious sort of thing. But then someone brought up the incredible idea that it should be, you guys, but then that was rebuked just immediately by you.

You were the one who brought up that idea. It wasn't somebody. It was you. I think one of the producers might have mentioned it, but I'm not going to divulge any of my sources here. All right. Whatever. Anyway, you're free to wear leprechaun gear any time of your choosing, Justin.

We would never stand in the way. And frankly, in Vegas, I think you will be the least weirdly dressed person in that room, probably. Wear it out to the cabana, you know, get a little shade. I think that's a good look for me. Was, you have a Vegas veteran here. Do you have any, like, tips for the people at home or even for Rob and I about how to do Vegas right?

I think, like, media people like us, what I tell them is, like, you know, oh, I'm going to be there for five days. Bro, you don't have to go back to your room at 5 o'clock every morning. You know, mixing a 1 a.m. in between the day, right? Peace yourself. Mixing a midnight, 1230. It's like, guys, I get it. We're at the freaking Aria.

hotel bar and everybody's having a good time. But yo, I'm taking it to the room. Two nights in a row playing blackjack till five in the morning. Can't do it. I'm going home. Mix in a couple of those and you'll be fine. And then, you know, I just got the alert that Vegas set the record for hottest day ever. About three days ago.

Yeah, I would advise minimal contact with the actual outdoors, especially when it's daytime. just Uber to venue whatever AC minimal contact. I don't care about how nice your hotel pool is, bro. Don't do it. I think it's very generous of you, Waz, to say that Justin and I should mix in a one or two a.m. night. I'm talking about the media at large. I'm not talking about my two guys on the call.

No, absolutely not. There are people out there getting after it. Make no mistake. People are living hard out in Vegas. The sports writers are going wild. It's a real scene. When I saw a TV personality in sports media be approached by a decent looking young lady

and shortly thereafter go back to their room, I was like, some league is different, bro. This is different. I was going to jokingly float a name, but now I don't want to float any names. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't float the name.

But, yeah, I was just like, I was just like, this is a crazy time of year. Well, maybe that's an opportunity to leverage the lepricon costume, you know? Sounds like we might be able to poise this on to someone, if not you guys. I have to say, though, like, I think you're right about the AC, making sure that you're protected from the scorching hot sun. For me, that's what actually always gets me, is the transition from one AC place to another AC place. Because you're going from like 50 degrees to 110 to 50. It is someone who's been sick for two weeks, in part because I think, like, L.A.

LA has a similar thing going, just on a much lower scale where, like, on the east side, for instance, not a lot of coverage. All those palm trees are just dying before us and just leaving us exposed. But like, the transition is where you're going to get got. So just be careful, then. I'm going to give you some grace for being sick, Justin. I think the temperature situation in Vegas right now, while the hottest on record, maybe a little bit overblown. I don't know anyone who's spending time outside in Vegas when it's 108. And so 118, what's really the difference? But look, I'm a Texan. We're Bill different.

I'm used to the heat. I'm going to be thriving out there. I'm looking forward to it. And for, you know, a lot of my media members, the sunscreen is your friend. You know, me personally, I got sunscreen from God, the Almighty. Jha, the father, Allah.

But for my other fellow media brethren, hey, man, lather that thing up because it's going to count. Yeah, skincare with water. is going to be a recurring segment here on group chowers. It's going to close every show with it from now on. I appreciate this, though. You expected Waz to come with much more, I don't know, like extreme approaches, but no, you could tell he's a vet because he knows how to pace himself.

He knows how to load manage his time in Vegas. And that's how you know you have a veteran on hand. So I look forward to learning more on the ground from Waz if I do indeed see him at any point while watching basketball games in my seat and not moving. But since we're talking about Summer League already, I asked you guys to come up with wish lists for what you want to see on the ground in Las Vegas. Rob, is there any, like, rookie you want to see any sophomore, any, like, sort of trend thing that's been burbling this summer that you want to check in on? So how deep cut do you want to go off the top?

I want you to be you, man. This is a July 10th podcast. No one's listening to this shit. Let's whatever it. You know, I'm a circle back. I'm going to be a responsible podcaster. I'm going to start with a relatively bigger ticket item, which is obviously, I think a lot of us are anxious to see all these lottery guys in action.

We in particular know nothing about college basketball players or international basketball players before they get to the NBA for the most part, unless they apparently go to Yukon. I can't wait to see Ron Holland in particular. I have no idea what's going on there. The Pistons are under new management with Trajan Langdon. It's not immediately clear what they're doing. They hired J.B. Baker staff. They drafted Ron Holland at six after what's.

seem like a pretty disappointing season with the Ignite and into a situation that already has too many guards who can't shoot. And so what does Trajan Langdon see in Ron Holland that other people don't? That's something that I'm curious to find out. And I'm hoping, honestly, for as many players as can get lost in the shuffle out in the weirdness and the chaos of Summer League basketball, high energy, high motor guys like Ron Holland, can actually be pretty fun and have a pretty good run.

So I'm curious to see how he does out there. Yeah, I actually feel the same way as you for, different reason than how weird Detroit's management is. Because the few draft, like, Scouting Report, stuff that I did watch and read about Ron Holland is that he was the closest thing in this draft to that swingman prototype that we all salivate over, right? Like somebody that could potentially be a Kawhi, Paul George, Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown, etc.

type of guy. He most closely fit that build. obviously, you know, nobody was putting him on a Tatum trajectory or much less freaking prime Kawhi Leonard. But, you know, he was the guy that most closely resembled that archetype from by all accounts that was in this particular draft. So I'll be interested to watch him for that reason at all because he does play ostensibly the most premium position in the game.

Yeah, and I actually didn't mind the pick for the Pistons, not really having a great deal for any of these guys, but at the very least, like they could have, just reach for an older guy with the hopes of just adding him on to what they already have. They went for the deep cut younger prospect who actually might be able to

tap into something that he didn't in the G league next season. So maybe it shows that there's more of a longer runway in Detroit, and you can kind of see it even this offseason didn't rush to sign any mid-tier free agents. We got Paul Reed getting claimed off of waivers. He got Fontecchio

getting rolled back. And so for that reason, I'm encouraged, but you're right. I don't know much about this guy, but he was going into last season, supposed to be the best prospect in that entire draft. So it's an interesting sort of pastry dish for him in Vegas. Yeah, it's always a complicated thing for guys like us because I agree with you a longer runway is usually what makes sense from a team-building perspective. You don't want to rush into the convenience of fit with a draft pick if you really believe in a prospect,

like say Ron Holland, for example. All of that said, the Pistons haven't made the playoffs in five years. They've been rebuilding and rebuilding. and rebuilding. And so at some point, it would be nice to see them take it to step forward. And I can't wait to see if Ron Holland is a part of that step forward or if he's just a guy who's going to be on the back burner of this project. For sure. One of the guys I have in the list, probably the opposite of that. No surprises here. Stefan Castle, whether or not this guy is going to be an actual point guard. He was pretty

ancillary to what Yukon did, although Yukon used a lot of ball handlers and guys doing a lot of different stuff. So I'm excited to see him more on the ball in Summer League. I don't know if we'll get a glimpse at what his ultimate role will be this season because in Summer League they kind of just empower the most talented, highly drafted player to kind of be themselves. It's really only like an approximation of what we might see in the regular season, but just seeing this guy get reps, seeing what he could do from a shooting perspective when he's on the ball more. I'm excited to see because like he could ultimately be like the guy that Wemby soldiers through the majority of his prime.

So in addition to my own just love of all Yukon prospects, I think he's going to be one of the more fascinating guys. Well, they need him to be a ball handler in some capacity regardless, right? Even if he's not a lead point

guard by definition at some point in his NBA career or at the outset of his MBA career, if he can occupy that sort of, you know, the modern Drew Holiday comps are floating out there. And I see that less as

All-Star Drew Holiday and more as Swingman, Swiss Army Knife Drew Holiday. Maybe that's his ultimate function, but you got to be able to handle the ball and organize some stuff to do that. Yeah, and there'll be some tension on the team because Wembe's going to be so good

that Natchez is going to be a doormat all season. And so guys are going to kind of have to earn minutes and you wonder, you know, especially with Popovich and his track record of how he likes to deal with young guys. Like Manu and Tony Park, when they first was coming up,

they got quick hooks, dude. Oh, yeah. Like the second they messed up, he was taking their asses out. So I wonder if Bob, in his older age, you know, the sunsetting of his career if he applies a lighter touch to this kid and how he develops.

Because God knows he's going to have opportunities. Again, Chris Paul's going to play like 45 games, y'all. The guy's body is brittle. My boy described his body of being made of Lego parts at this point. And so, like, the young guys are going to get chances to be on ball and try to, you know, initiate offense for these guys. So it would be interested in what he's able to do.

I mean, the Lego parts themselves are pretty durable. You know, I feel like you could hammer those things. Yeah, very indestructible. It's just that they come apart from each other pretty easily. Oh, yeah, he's also been plant-based for a really long time there, so I'm not sure how, like, dense the bones are without the milk. Are these plants from Germany? Is it drinking too much milk?

Could be. Watts, who do you have on your wish list? So, man, I'm starting to buy into a little bit of this Zach Eadie. hype, y'all. Let's do it. And I love the idea because, you know, when they made the pick, people were saying like, yo, these guys sorely missed Stephen Adams. And so the idea that they just be like, yo, this element that made our team tick

in a very elemental way, we're going to go out and draft it. Then he comes out and has the great debut in California. And the buzz is already going, right? And I think Memphis is going to be an interesting team to watch. We'll get to that at the later part of this podcast, just the little tease. there. But I'm just really excited to see what Zach Eadie does because, you know, what I did watch in the tournament, like, yo, these kids couldn't handle him. Like, straight up, he was just a dominant force out there. Even if you say, you know what, he's going to be playing much more

stronger athletic guys. It's rare to see even at the college game, somebody dominate physically and be that imposing the way that he was. And so I'm really excited to see what he could do in Summer League. And it's always cool to just see it do that side. And it's just see it do that size do anything coordinated and productive in person so it's always crazy so I'm really pumped to see what Zach Ety going to do up there and he knows how to

play the game and by that I mean when he was drafted he came out and said John Morant is the best point card in the NBA I love that guy gets it you know that's good do you see Ja on the sidelines and what was it salt like just already cheering him on it was a nice reminder that like

John Morant exists and is still it's healthy like one of the most electric players in the NBA. I'm on the same wavelength as Wads here where I got him in my prediction segment where it's like, damn, maybe we're just like discounting the grizzles. Because if ED hits, I do think it has repercussions that could like ripple all across the west. I think he's fascinating in his own right and he's fascinating in terms of just the overall playoff race. I would not have anticipated anyone on earth being able to get John Morant to Salt Lake on vacation. But here we are. The world.

as a place of infinite possibilities. And this is the one where he goes to Saul Lake to cheer on his guys. Yeah, maybe that was a team-issued request, but you never know. The only other one I have down here is seeing Reed Shepherd, if only because I don't know what to amic with a guy built like KOC who shoots like Steph Curry. And so just to see what's going on there, I'm just wholly fascinated.

Also, like a little early scouting report for Waz's, reprisal of the white American track. Oh yeah, I'm on him. Don't worry. The comps are out of control though. As someone who, again, is not super familiar with Reed Shepard's game at this point, the comps that you hear about him are downright irresponsible.

I mean, you just drop the Seth Curry one. The people who are the highest on him think that he has perennial all-star potential. Yeah. And everyone has been telling us for months that this was a weak draft and also there's a Steph Curry in it. That seems like a pretty good draft.

But the thing about Reed Shepard is like, I haven't heard anybody say Risha Shay is going to be some eight or nine time All-Star, or that's in the cards for him. And this guy was the number one pick was Reed Shepard. People are like, yo, if he really figures out, you know, how to like basically be crafty enough within his NBA game to deal with the size and athleticism, like this dude has the sort of basketball know-how and the skill. You know, if he could just add some expert level craft to that,

this guy can be an all-star with the tools that he has. So, like, that's exciting stuff, honestly. And maybe there's enough volatility within that range to explain how that player would fall to three over two guys that everyone seems pretty lukewarm about between Risa Shea and Saar. I don't understand this draft yet. I don't expect to given that, again, we know nothing. But I look forward to a little clarity in the coming months

and certainly out in Vegas as to what is it that these guys can do that would justify being an elite pick even in a relatively down draft. Rob, do you have any more on your list? I got some deeper cuts. One, do any of Denver's guys look too good for Summer League? This is a time-honored tradition.

If you're a second-year player in particular, do you show up and just blow everyone out for two games and get yanked from the lineup? Julian Strother, I'm looking at you. Can you just have an incendiary start? To put the nuggets off on a good foot, because he's going to have to be a rotation player. But beyond him, Duran Holmes,

who they took at 22 this year, Hunter Tyson, Jalen Pickett, all recent picks by the Nuggets, it would just be a really good sign for Denver if any one of those guys looked too good to be there. And I'm curious to see if they have that in them because I'm not 100% sure they do.

It's always interesting when you see teams that bring their Summer League rosters out and it's most of their NBA rotation. And it's typically bad teams, like the Rockets for the past few years, have been like this to the point where like Jafarer Smith is exactly what Rob is describing. He showed up last year and bake. It was way too good.

They shut them down early. It's a little different when the 2023 NBA champions who presumably will compete for that again in 2024, 25. Most of those guys will be playing at Summer League, I assume, like home, some of these other guys. I don't know if Zieg Najee, like, by contract status, shouldn't. But maybe by actual production on the court, maybe he should get a couple of reps. But I assume we'll see a lot of those guys. out there. I would think so.

I mean, there's a bunch of candidates for the early poll, the early hook. Like Gigi Jackson, for example, is playing for the Grizzly Summer League team. He's going to light these dudes up. These two good. I think it would be great for the Pacers if Jarris Walker turned out to be that guy. He's had, like, incredible flashes in garbage time-type minutes or like when he's thrown into the fire. I could see him being great in the setting.

But Denver's guys, like, those are going to be players of real import on a team that actually matters in the context of the Western Conference. And if any of them hit, it's a big deal. I have one other deeper cut just for the sickos, which is, can DJ Burns be a Summer League darling? Can he be our guy? That's not a sicko thing? That's not a sicko thing?

That's actually, I think that's like a college phenomenon. To me, those are sickos. The people who like college basketball are the true sickos. But a twinkle-toed post-up king who dropped so much weight so quickly, he had to deny the Ozempic allegations, we have no choice but to stand. That's a good one. I mean, for me, another thing that I'm looking forward to,

just a little bit different, is just the overall vibe of Summer League where hope springs eternal, like every single team person, you know, every agent just got their guy a new deal, every player you might have a passing relationship, they just signed a new deal or whatever, got traded to the team of their dreams, blah, blah, blah.

everybody thinks they're going to be the shit next year. And that's just the overall vibe of Summer League. Just hope springs eternal. And I enjoy it because it's like, this is the last time the Detroit Pistons are going to feel good about their team. Until next Summer League, right? So, like, I look forward to that every single year at Summer League. Do you think this summer is going to feel that way?

It's been such a weird offseason. Vegas is literally boiling. We are hurtling toward the North Carolina. November election. Does hope spring eternal for any of us at this point? I don't know. It's like a very sharp pivot, but I don't know. I like, I don't know. I like the way things are going politically, like that we're just, you know, running, it gives me hope, Rob that I'll be working until I'm 86. And people think I'm worthy of all of this responsibility and power and status. Of course. All right. I'm greedy that way, Rob. Still going to be podding at 86.

That's right. I hope I'm in a cabana somewhere at that point. I don't want to be podcasting with you guys at 86 with all due respect. We'll just get you the AI version of Rob. It will just be like, this ninth man is very good. You guys should get down for you. God damn it.

Since we're already talking about the olds, let's talk about Team USA here, where I saw a poll recently conducted by, I believe the athletics suggesting that LeBron James was the best player in Team USA training camp, which I guess is an interesting data point that we needed in our lives. But I have to say, I fucking love this time of year for Team USA where you have all of these luminaries just coming together, putting on those jerseys.

You get to see them in different environments. You get to see just the politics of who kind of like takes center stage, who starts, who doesn't. It's like the All-Star game just to another level. and I really love it, especially because now we're getting the grainy Zapruder film of the practice scrimmages, and I have to say, Cooper Flagg, I read Shepard's run as the number one guy and Woz's board might be short-lived, because this guy looks absolutely legit. Yeah, he's huge.

He handles it. Like, the guy can obviously already shoot. He's got good feel. Like, it's dope. I'm not going to go as crazy as some others are with the, you know, with the footage, from the internet, it was a glorified scrimmage at a freaking practice that just happened to be caught on, you know, on video.

But yeah, he looks good. And people are saying like, no, he feels legit. Like, this kid can play, right? And he's only about 17. So, like, that's really, that's really exciting stuff. Yeah, I think the fact that he has been pretty undaunted is what impressed, you know, Kevin Durant talked about that, him coming in and just doing his thing.

He's not compensating in either direction where he's, being too deferential or he's talking too much trying to prove himself as young guys sometimes do in these settings. He's just showing up and being Cooper Flagg and it turns out that's a really good NBA player already. Yeah, I'm also wondering what the trickle-down effect is to seeing Flag already be able to kind of hold his own against some of the best players in the NBA to what teams now do in the back half of this offseason. Like I believe John Hollinger coined the term Capture the Flag, which I appreciate. Pretty good job. The tank, tank race. I wonder if we'll see

Utah, for instance, be like, please take Lori Marketing off our hands. We just want to chance at the Great White Hope here. But yeah, he looks good, and apparently the rest of the draft is supposed to be good as well. Anything else about this team that you guys are interested in? We won't get the actual games for a couple weeks here.

We have some of these warm-ups, but I find the starting lineup decisions to be interesting as well. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, start-line-up would be interesting, how they balance shooting. and status and ball handling and all of that stuff. But I think, like, I like the team that they put together in a sense that the big man rotation being M.B. AD and BAM, like, I like the defense.

You know what I mean? And then, you know, just having Drew and Tatum and, like, the younger guys behind it that can actually, like, play some real lockdown defense for real. That's what gets me most is. I've never really worried about scoring. Like, they'll figure out how to. score, but how they're going to win is if they suffocate guys on defense. And when like, you know, when you play France and it's just like, all right, Rudy and

Wembe, we got A.D. and Embed, like, I like that. I think that's good. And the fact that those guys can play together if you really want them to. You know, you could play A.D. and Embed as your four-five against Gobert and Wembe as we've seen France roll those guys out together. Makes a lot of sense. But we're breezing past the news of the day, which is Kauai Leonard is not going to be a part of this team. Is that news of the day, Rob? Did you ever think Kaua Wanda was actually going to play and exert himself in France for Team USA? Yeah, that leg sleeve he showed up with, I was like, oh boy.

Honestly, had he played, I would have been mad for the Clippers. Like Clipper fans, whenever. This motherfucker down, down the stretch, we go through all this stuff with Paul Georgian. This guy's going to play in Team USA? That would have been absurd. I just thought it was weird that as recently as two days ago, he was. saying, oh, I'm having so much fun out here. I wasn't thinking I'd be able to show up,

but my knee responded so well to treatment. I'm feeling better. I was surprised he even set the bar there. My expectation coming into this whole process was he wasn't even going to report to Vegas in the first place. He was going to pull out before it even started. And so when he did show up on the ground, I thought maybe there was actually a material change here.

Turns out there's just more inflammation and it ebbs and flows. And now Derek White is part of Team USA, because as we all know, the Celtics are America's team. Derek White was floated as Wodge leaked this during the finals. Yeah. Like, yo, he's going to sign an extension in the offseason and he's going to be the guy that Team USA picks to inevitably replace Kau Islander.

This is like the least surprising news. But I think it's cool that he even showed up to be around the guys. Like, he's still part of the program. They are treating Team USA as like this communal sort of make your way up through the ranks under 17. then you do a select team, then you make the big, like, I like that he was, like, decided to be a part of the program,

even though he's not going to ultimately play because, you know, it doesn't make any sense that he would. Well, there's two parts of this two. One, take Kawhi Leonard off this team, and yeah, it's a little less overwhelming in terms of the talent acquisition that has happened here. Kauai with LeBron and Steph and KD and Joel and AD, all these guys piled on top each other.

It's unbelievable collection of talent. So losing Kauai, look, it doesn't put the U.S. behind the eight ball in any material way. They're still easily the most loaded team in the field, but it makes it a little less special that he's not going to be with these guys. That said, Derek White stepping into the honorary Tashon Prince spot as role player who can defend and hit shots and move the ball, makes a ton of sense within the team USA model. This is usually how these teams are constructed. This was an unusual group from the start in that there weren't really any role player types. it was just loaded to the gills.

And we lose a little bit with that, but I'm sure Team USA is going to be just fine for it. I'm a big size matters, guys, so I would have liked to see McHale Bridges or, you know, Jalen Brown, God forbid. I don't know if you guys saw the little emoji that he tweeted. I would have rather we replace a wing with a freaking wing, you know, a huge guy that could, you know,

guard multiple positions and all of that, but I'm sure there was some political whatever. I'm sure Steve Kerr is obsessed with Derek White. I would bet any amount of money that Steve Kerr, like dreams of Derek White. So I'm not surprised by that part of it. I think Jalen Brown just happened to be playing for the wrong team, which is not America's team the Celtics. It's just not team Nike.

If anything, he has been very outspoken about how he doesn't want to feed into that. But I would say just do the ceremonial Anthony Davis spot, the Christian Leitner spot, and just bring along Cooper Flagg and just start ushering in the five to six. No, you don't like it. The same 1992 where you busts in Angola's ass by 80. I'm sorry.

Like, these roster spots have to matter. Like, I don't know, Steph Curry tweaks to ankle. Like, something's going to have to happen. Like, I don't believe in the honorary stuff. Like, our women, yeah, y'all could do honorary stuff because they be smoking teams.

They crush it. Yeah, that's not even close. They destroy everybody. But these guys can lose. Like, that's why I don't think it's a good idea. They've proven it. honorary spots, like me personally, because I actually want to see them win. Yeah, no.

I think that would have been cool to have Cooper flag there, but nah, man, we got to beat these guys. America first, maybe. I don't know about that. The other complicating factor and another reason you might have wanted more size than Derek White,

and granted, Derek White plays bigger than an average point guard. He's obviously a great rim protector first position, all those things. He can switch. We love Derek White. Kevin Durant's not going to play in this friendly tonight against Canada because he has a calf strain.

Yeah, it's concerning. A little concerning when your forward spots are maybe a little thinner than you would like. LeBron is going to play a ton, I imagine. Jason Tatum might jump into the starting lineup at this point after we've been talking about him as a potential bench player for them. And you do have some flexibility with guys like Ant and Devin Booker, for example,

being able to play the two or the three. So it's not like they're going to, like, they have ways to make this work. but if all of your fours keep systematically getting injured, at some point you pay the price for that. And I think the price is not that America loses necessarily, but all of a sudden you have to really work hard to win with guys who do get injured somewhat frequently.

And guys who are later in their careers, you're looking at Steph, you're looking at LeBron, you're looking at Joel and AD and Kevin Durant. These are guys who are going to be asked... They're not spring chickens. They're not spring chickens, and a lot is going to be asked of them in these upcoming NBA seasons, and a lot might be asked of them in Paris too.

Well, that's probably a good segue to talk about the rest of the field here. Do you guys see one of these teams as like the clear-cut number one competitor in the field? It's a Canada. Is it the Serbian team with Yokic? What do you guys like?

To me, it should be Canada. Yeah, it should be Canada, but it often should be Canada. And they've done better lately about taking care of business, but I just have so many reservations with that group. Yeah.

not a lot of sides on that team too, right? Because ED just isn't going to play for them. So you would think MB would just cook in that matchup, but I guess we'll see. But they do have the matchups on the wings at the guard. You know, Nikiel Alexander Walker, Dylan Brooks, Lou Dorrit, they're going to be throwing pretty elite perimeter defenders at the American start. See, but this is when we get down to it, it's like, yeah,

those guys are actual NBA players who have been in high-leverage playoff games, all that stuff. But it's like, them versus Devin Booker and, like, Jason Tatum coming off the bench. Like, there's a big gap between potential MVPs off the bench and, like, guys who are rotation players, like, Bogdan Bogdanovich. Sure. But you get into some of these scenarios and the way that the game is officiated internationally. And Jason Tatum is trying to do a rip-through and all of a sudden it's not called. And Lou Gehratt's got the ball going the other way.

Like, those things happen. Like, I've seen this thing snowball before where Kirk Heinrich just freaked. double dribbles for no reason. And Greece goes on like a 14-0 run to beat a team that was just way more talented than them. I don't remember if it was Greece or Italy. I don't remember, but it was embarrassing. I was up at 6 in the morning watching that pissed off in 06.

But yeah, I think, look, if they take it seriously enough, which it seems like they are, and they're reasonably healthy and, you know, playing together, they should be able to get this done. but it's not going to be easy. France, I think, is the most fascinating one for that reason because there are flashbacks to the Gasol bros, just like having the size to impose on Team USA. I don't know if they'll have the offense.

They keep up with the amount of shooters and whatnot that U.S. has. But just seeing Gobert and Wembe played together is going to be the most interesting experiment we're ever going to get from this thing. It's going to be sick. What they lack that those Spain teams had was just the ball skills and the passing of the Gassals. Wembe can do some of that.

Gobert not so much and that wouldn't be a problem if France players should have dribble. We know. Why don't I know? Well, I also know. I would prefer to let Rudy Gobert play to his strengths, but Frank Nile Kine is going to be a big part of this team.

Nando de Kolo is a little miscast. And what happened to all the French people that got drafted in this past draft? Because a lot of the older gar. I mean, a lot of international teams work this way where in theory there should be a farm system, but sometimes the younger prospects, especially the ones who either haven't done time in the program or were later bloomers, like Alexar, for example,

is reportedly kind of a later bloomer as far as coming on to the scene. That sort of thing happens. They're still a really talented international team. They just don't have a lot of perimeter creation and ball handling, which leads to a lot of Evan Fornier happening. And I don't know how to feel about that. Just don't step to him. You might get choked.

That's the way he's going to knock some of these guys out there. But we got the, we got the Bogner Bros. to the reigning World Cup champions. I think they're going to be a factor here. Serbia, Yokech will be out there. Serbia, for sure. Australia. By the way, did you see that Matisse Thibel got cut from Australia?

Yeah. Is it the Blazers weren't hurting enough? That's bad. Wouldn't you? Oh, I'm not saying it's a bad decision. I'm just saying it's a bad indicator of Fibble's NBA problems. That's true. But this is the problem when you have guys like Dyson Daniels and Josh Green

coming up the pike. And they can defend and they play hard. And also they can hit shots occasionally, which it turns out might be important. My Haitian brother never develop a jump shot. It's tough. All right. Well, since we're ending this on a downbeat,

let's flip to the positive here. We're going to do a little winners and losers of the off season thus far. We'll see what we get for the rest of the off season. It seems like we might be in a little bit of an eye of this storm before our next wave of stuff starts to happen. There's a lot of stuff like teams rosters aren't exactly fit, like the heart caps are kind of leaving teams left with needing to make a deal. And so I assume there's going to be some trades here.

But as of right now, July 10, winners and losers. Was, you want to go with like your first winner of the off season so far? It's unequivocally easily, Isaiah Hartinstein. Just the idea that he could go from an afterthought on the Clippers, Nick's backup, who was nice, fan favorite. People liked them, big energy motor guy, like everybody's enjoying him, to playoff fucking savior to 90 million,

although 90 million ain't guaranteed, but the first two are, dude, damn near $60 million or whatever the hell it is for two years to go from where he came from to this deal, this off-season. And again, he didn't have to go sign in some whack-ass NBA backwater that's a more about situation like Detroit or Charlotte,

which a lot of times that will happen with these guys. Think back to Ben, bensmack Bionbo in the cap spike year where, you know, like a crummy team will just be like, oh, this guy did something in the playoffs. Let's overpay him. He's about to go to the number one seat in the West and get paid and get minutes.

And he just got married. I mean, this guy is the winner of the off-season, man. I'm very happy for him. I saw that on Instagram somewhere. Or I remember I was on Twitter. No, I definitely saw the wedding pictures on Instagram. And then I was on Twitter. And somebody was like, yo, could somebody please hurry up

and give Hardinstein this contract? He's about to get married. He has to start family planning. Like, please, like get that done for the boys. So I'm just happy for this kid, man. I actually think the Oklahoma City Thunder are a big winner for more or less the same reason, getting Hardinstein, getting Caruso,

So all without having to give up the picks that are going to factor into their eventual trade play, we were just talking about the Thunder being sort of the assumed favorite in the Western Conference. And that's a huge development for them as a team. It's a huge development that, frankly, teams like Denver don't look like they're going to be as good next year. Teams like Minnesota are more or less the same, maybe slightly worse, losing Kyle Anderson, for example. All of this seems to be turning the Thunder's way a little bit. And that's a team that already has room to jump, that already has ways to go forward

just in terms of internal development and to get Hartenstein, spend the money while you got it. I think it has a team option on that third year that's going to protect the thunder a little bit. They have a lot to explore here. And frankly, part of the reason you assign Hardinstein to this deal is when you do need to make that deal,

it could just be Hardinstein and picks now. It doesn't have to be J-dub. It doesn't have to be Case and Wallace. Obviously, you're not trading Shea or Chet, but you don't have to trade the core members of your team if you also have guys under big numbers under contract? I want to talk about the Thunder a little bit later because I have them in my prediction segment as well.

I cannot think of a better rebuild job than what they've been able to accomplish. This is Hinkie's wet dream, where he has perhaps the best team in the Western Conference and has a war chest of draft assets that rivals literally anybody else is in the league and perhaps an entire history. And so, like, they could be anything.

at this point, I bet they'll probably still be the same old thunder, which means that they'll prioritize the big three that they have and keep supplementing what they already have and just kind of like slowly play that out. Seems like a pretty good option nonetheless. So like I just don't see how this

team doesn't do. Honestly, if we're going to like do the odds, I think like the number of titles for this team when this is all set and done is probably like one and a half at this point. Anything less than that I think would be disappointing. Let's pump the brakes. Just slightly.

Okay. Very high on the thunder. How don't you win all those titles if Wemby's going to be the MVP next year and own basketball from now until, you know, Malaya Obama's our president? Like, I don't understand how anybody's going to win championships under that scenario. So Mr. B. takes over. Yeah, no. I feel like we have like a two to three year window before Wembe is fully operational or at least has the horses to support him. But yeah, we'll see.

The Celtics win one title and you're just off. You're just like, yeah, I don't. Those guys aren't going to do anything anymore. Well, I mean, we've talked about it in the past. I don't want to get too into it though. But we are in a fairly historic period where we haven't seen a repeat title winner in what, like six years, which I think is the first longest time that's ever happened here.

And you look at what's happening with just the bylaws of the league. It seems like they're going to continue to encourage that sort of parody at the highest level. And so I think just playing the odds, I think would suggest that the Celtics don't repeat next year, but we'll see. On the flip side,

a lot of teams are running scared from the second April while they're doubling down on it. So maybe they have a hidden advantage in that regard. Well, and this could be one thing that ends up playing out for the Thunder, rather than cashing in a ton of their picks

on one big trade. Maybe the way all those picks get used is helping the Thunder sustain over time. It's more about swapping, smaller pieces in and out in ways that let you navigate all this apron madness and you're able to incentivize other teams to take part in it through those picks.

Because this Thunder team is going to get very expensive very quickly given the talent that they have and how many good young players that they have. They're going to have to figure out a way to juggle all that. And I think you can trust them to do it given what we've seen from that front office, but they still have to go out and do it. Yeah. So I have written down,

I have a few people here, but the first one at the top of the list, I think Philly, clear cut one. And we've talked about Philly in the past. So we don't have to go too deep into that. But I also think that KJ Martin, low-key, might be the biggest winner of the off-season because the way that it's working out is that he is still,

the Sixers still have his bird rights. And thus they're able to still pay him while going over the cap, which means that they could functionally pay him whatever they want in order to match salary and then add picks to a deal. And so, again, referencing the Hollinger piece that I wrote, one of his trade suggestions,

which might be one of my favorite fake trades in history was to give KJ Martin a max contract but make the second and third years non-guaranteed because you need three years in order to do a sign-in trade. But it would functionally be matching salary for Lori Markin and then you just give all your picks to Utah and then you just get Lori Marketing in. But KJ. Martin would get a max contract for a year

just because of the cap mask and how it all worked out. And so even if he gets like something approximating that, It's insane. It's insane. But I think it's possible that he gets like way more than he should, if only to make the math work, which is wild, but shouts to him and his account. That's not happening.

You don't think that's going to happen? Here's the thing. I think if anyone's going to do it, it's more. Did you guys hear what he did with like the unlikely bonuses in Caleb Martin's deal where it's like he signed him, but then the bonuses were a certain thing, but they don't count against the cap. If you just prioritize something.

Yeah. And so, like, there's a lot of people that work the fine print, the legaless of the league. And so I wouldn't put it past more to do that. The legalese? It's in the fine print. It's in the legalese. Oh, Jesus Christ.

Turn the spell tank off. Just in case you were close. I will say. Justin is Rob's editor. I think, look. If you're going through Cap Manusia, I don't think you can turn off the spell check. I think we're in the weeds now, my friend.

Whether it's cap or linguistics or breaking down the specific pronunciations of this thing, I don't know that it's going to work out that way for KJ. Martin, but yeah. Did you do you get two things to follow up on last week's spot? Do you hear apparently, as 90 million people told us, apparently you can take the Mississippi from Minnesota. To New Orleans, which thank you too,

our fellow sailors out there who are plotting the courses. But also perplexing. I think reflection is a word. Is it a word? It turns out, according to random commenters that I didn't really double check.

As we all know, you can always trust them. You can always count the group chat listener. Come on now. Can I make a proposal? Yeah. Do it. Minnesota makes the playoffs next year, presumably.

Let's say, let's say second round. Let's say they're looking good to make the Western Conference finals. Live group chat from the riverboat going up the Mississippi to Minneapolis. Oh, yeah. That's incredible idea. I think we can do it. Like one of those like corn cob pipes and like a half and put the little like straps around our shoulders. I don't know what it's called when you have the stick with the satchel at the end with all your belongings in it, but I will have one of those on the boat.

Like a hobo? Well, I mean, I'm migrating up, you know? I'm like what am I supposed to do? He's a regular old Huck Finn. Yeah. Well, speaking, you wanted to speak on the legalese. Oh, just that I would not be surprised if KJ. Martin ends up getting well above market value to facilitate some kind of deal. I don't think he's getting Lorry Market and money to make that particular deal work.

But any win is good for KJ. Martin, right? Anyone wants to pay you above and beyond? You don't turn them down. Yeah, I don't remember the crazy contract, the poison pill. Darry gave Linsanity. Like this guy, this is what he does.

Omer Ashik, like, this is what he does. So, you know, we'll see. Apparently, perplexion was a word in the 1500s,

but I don't think anyone uses it anymore. Rob, I'm an old soul. What can I say? I'm taking river boats. I use the Queens English. Kings English?

Definitely not the Queens, but yeah. well not anymore why because you're pro patriarchy what's going on no I just like I keep up with the times you know do you guys have any more winners

I have a couple other written down here I got no more winners what you got excuse me I have James Harden who as the clippers were just just falling down around him managed to score 70 million and a player option for a second year

so like shouts to that guy for just getting a bag full of cash a guy who was used to giving bags full of cashes to his friends, he's now getting one himself. So that's got to be something. I have friendship written down here as a result of the Nova Nix, basically reforming their college fraternity as if they were like a Ryan Russell life advice emailer, just rolling it back and getting the game back together.

And all of a sudden, that's what we do to build NBA teams. By the way, I would encourage everybody who's listening to this to go to McHale Bridge's Instagram page. He posted like him and Tibbs. and Leon Rose at the picture they're holding up the jersey and Tibbs is so freaking happy.

It's like insane. I got scared for this guy's ACLs immediately as soon as I've seen how utterly just like, this guy's on cloud nine right now, dude. It's like, wait, this guy played 83 games. You can do that?

That's right. Exactly. That's going to be me. When they take the photo, it's going to be me when after you guys are paying the bill. I'll just be standing there with my arms around you

with a big old head. I look forward to it. I look forward to treating you, Justin. And look, other people have floated this bit so I don't want to take credit for it. I think Tibbs should be looking over his shoulder a little bit,

you know? Jay Wright, coach of the Knicks. That's right. You know? Tibbs has done more than enough to keep that job, but things are getting

very friendly up there. Very fraternity oriented. You worry for a guy. Yeah. Last one I have written down here also in a certain brotherhood, an actual brotherhood, which I have the Vogners who banked combined $246 million for shooting a combined 29% from three last year. Okay. The combined here is doing like the Kobe and Smush Parker combined for 83 points. That's true. Oh, God. But shout out to most. Shouts to France, man.

Yeah. If you want to transition to losers here now, Billy Wagner, unfortunately, it turns out based on an erroneous Google search, was five votes shy of making the Hall of Fame. Damn. Talks to the Metz legend. One of the best closers of my time.

I don't know who you're talking about. I barely did, but I just thought I'd throw it out there. Biggest loser, Rob, what do you have? I put the Milwaukee Bucks. Yeah. But I haven't really done much. And that feels like a problem. That's a roster that really needs help.

All they've been able to do is bring in Dailon Wright, who I like, but to fix their problems, maybe not so much. And Torian Prince, who probably shouldn't have been playing as much as he did for the Lakers in the first place, and now we'll come in and probably have the same arc and the same journey with the Bucks. This is a team that needs stuff, that needs movement, that needs change, that cannot rely simply on Damien Lillard coming in

and having a full camp and being in better shape or whatever it is that the bucks are trying to pitch as to how they're going to get better. I know that they hope to be healthier, and that would be great if they are, and it would change a lot of things, just having, frankly, Janice on the court, but also if Chris Middleton and Brooke Lopez

are able to stay healthy for the full season, that's always a good thing. I just worry about Milwaukee, man. They don't have a good enough supporting cast, and it doesn't really matter how good your core four are if you don't have the right bodies to put around those guys. Yeah, the supporting cast is tough, especially because, you know, they do have some young guys that they drafted,

first round talents, if you will. Young, young guys. Yeah, but, like, Doc just seemed so reticent to play those guys at all, even a little bit last year, just the quickest of hooks with those guys. And so you wonder who's going to supplement the very top-heavy roster, and they obviously haven't gone outside for that. And just the idea that Brooke Lopez is going to be the trade guy that it just, I don't understand what they did this offseason.

You know, like, I have belief that they're going to be better. You know, guys would be healthier another year, a real training camp, like more defined roles for Janice and Middleton and Dame. So I think they have, there's going to be a level of internal improvement to the dismissed, managed bunch that they were last year, but it would have been nice to see them do anything at all. to upgrade. Supposedly they were trying to get in on Haywood Highsmith,

but all they can really offer him is the minimum. That's the kind of signing that honestly would make me feel a little better. That would have been a nice signing. If nothing else, a dedicated perimeter defender that they sorely need. Yeah, it just feels like a lot of teams in the conference are moving upward and have just adding things and they just seem to be just holding on making sure that like Middleton, the guys that have brought them to the higher in the playoffs in the past. They're still going to be able to play at that level.

Was, who do you have on your list? That's easy. It's the nuggets. Just the idea that two years in a row you let, you know, guys from that championship court are so beautifully jelled and fit and, you know, felt so spiritually aligned that you would just let a guy go literally just for money. Yeah. That that just, to me, that's the biggest loser.

I don't think they're going to fall to the play in or anything crazy like that. They're still going to be one of the best teams in the NBA next year. But, man, these losses, the loss to the freaking wolves, that happened on the margins. Like, you have to be winning these things on the margins. It's just letting the guy as good as KCP go because of a checkbook issue for the freaking crown keys. I don't want to hear about flexibility. That's crap. You know, the most creative teams find ways to be flexible.

And they just didn't do that. And so to me, they're the biggest loser of this offseason. Yeah, the Bruce Brown loss was. beyond their control in a lot of ways. They just could not make him a competitive offer relative to what teams like the Pacers could. This one was elective. They made a choice not to offer KCP

the kind of deal that would bring him back. And this is where you end up. Having to punch up holes and with guys like me talking about how important Julian Strother is going to be to your season, it doesn't feel great for a team that should be mounting yet another spirited run. I think the way to look at the Nuggets

last season with Optim, would be to say, as you mentioned, Justin, it's almost impossible to repeat in the modern NBA, the rigors of going through a championship run and then a hard charging season and then another championship run. Very, very difficult stuff. And so maybe the Nuggets would have leveled out as something closer to, you know, some of the Tim Duncan Spurs teams, for example, it's like at every other year, their actual hard charging contenders going deep into the playoffs. It's hard to see that vision now when they don't have the supporting talent to really build around what they do. Now, their core

is stronger than Milwaukee's core. And generally speaking, aligns well. We know what that model is. We've seen it work at a championship level in a way. We haven't seen Dame with the Bucks, for example, operate in that way. But that makes it that much harder to lose someone like KCP who is so instrumental to that formula. Yeah. Yokits and Murray, both playing probably a lot of hard minutes in Paris

over the summer. That's something to keep track of when your team isn't deep and is actually losing depth as they go along here. like the Sarich signing because as we've talked about for what seems to be a decade at this point, it is just any semblance of center play to back up Yokic that's probably going to add a ton of value there, but like

all the Russell Westbrook stuff, and in particular, like, Nuggets, diehards, talking them into Russell Westbrook is just like, frankly a little unbecoming. Don't do it. I get that Westbrook might be underrated to a certain degree, especially in the regular season, but he's not going to play in the playoffs, Justin, like.

Exactly. How do you, how does any whatever. Talk it in. Talk it to yourself. That's what fans do. I don't blame you, but it's Russbrook, guys. We're all just trying to cope out here. Let them have it. So I have the nuggets down. I have the clippers, first and foremost. It's to the point where, especially in light of Paul George's podcast clip that's making the rounds about like what deals were offered at what time, where like I almost feel like there has to be some piece of information we just aren't privy to because things just aren't adding up. And like if this was the Lakers, you could fall on like, well, there's a history of dysfunction

here. If anything, the Clippers have been almost cold-hearted and too business-like in the past, cutting or trading Blake Griffin after giving him those cool t-shirts over the summer in order to sign him, like is the prime example of that. But I'm just so confused how they got to the point where they let Paul George walk over something as simple as like an extra year or the amount of money on the deal before that and then replacing him with kind of mid-tiered guys like i like derrick jones junior i like some of the other guys and been able to pick up but like i just can't wrap my head around it and for that reason i think that they have to be not to jump ahead in in your outline here justin but you asked us for one bold prediction about the

season i think the clippers are going to miss the play in this year oh that's dark yeah yeah Kauai is already hurt. Yeah. James Harden is 34. He's going to have to do a ton of heavy lifting. You already illuminated the players who we like that they brought in, you know, the Derek Jones, like they bring Nicholas Baton back. Those are good supporting players.

But I see a lot of Kevin Porter Jr. in their future. And not only is that gross for moral reasons, it's really bad basketball. He has bad losing basketball habits. And that's a guy who's going to have to stir the drink for your offense. Because who else is going to do it? Norm Powell is a good. kind of siloed explosive score, but Hardin is the only player

who's probably going to start the season healthy who's able to get things in motion. And that dude is 34, and we were just talking about him both as a Sixer and as a Clipper in terms of his limitations and how he can do that particular job right now. So where is the outline

for the Clippers to be a very good team in a conference that is even more stacked, that's very competitive, and the Grizzlies are the natural candidate to bump someone very hard out of this playing mix because I think the Grizzlies are going to be

probably a top four seed in the West maybe at the higher end of that spectrum. That's funny. The prediction is almost like this guy's reading my notes. Is that bold? All the Grizzlies do is rolling and win 50 games. That's what they do.

Yeah. I think people just forgot about them. I think they did. In our earlier conversation, like just seeing John Morant physically had them as a top 16, but you guys are going top four. That's a spicy people.

That was my bold prediction, honestly. One, I just want to echo Rob's sentiment that, you know, Kauai Leonard is going to inevitably be hurt this season because that's what he does. His knee is cooked. And this team is just not going to be very good in a West that just seems to get stronger and stronger by the freaking second. So, yeah, I could see them easily falling out of the playing.

But yeah, my bold prediction was the Grizzlies were finishing the top four. Like, I like them to have home court advantage in the first round because one, obviously, John Moran is going to be back and super motivated for sure. Definitely. Obviously, they finally found something with G.G. Jackson.

Like, they've been trying to find that, like, wing sort of three kind of guy for years now, even though they already had Dylan Brooks, but they've been trying to figure that out for a minute. And G.G. Jackson seems to be, like, as legitimate as it gets for his age and where he's at in his development.

And, you know, again, again, like, I hear Vince Williams's music too. Exactly. I can see the glint in Rob's eye. As Wise was talking about that, like he's going to bring up Vince Williams. Well, you said the Grizzlies wing rotation, what is a guy to do but bring up Vince Williams?

Exactly. Also, how many games did Smart even play with Jha last year? Because Jock came back, things looked fairly functional for a little bit, even though it didn't seem like they were going to make much ground in the West. But, like, we don't even know what, like, the additions they made last year are going to be to the full strength team.

So this team can be very deep into doubt. Am I remembering correctly that Marcus Smart dislocated his hand celebrating a made three? I believe there was something like that. Something for us all to aspire to. Other losers I have down here is just any OK free agent looking for a payday.

Like we talked about Caleb Martin having to settle for less. I have Gary Trent Jr. who reportedly turned down 15 million a year and seems like he's a man without a country right now. Tyos Jones, Presta, Chua, Markell Fultz. still out there. Isaac Akoro, restricted free agent. We'll see what happens with him.

I also have Jarrett Walker, harking back to the earlier segment here. The guy was the number eight pick in the draft. They bring on Obitopin, one. Then they've re-signed Obitopin this off season, and obviously brought in Pascal Seacum at the trade deadline, and then resigned

him. And so, like, a guy you were hoping a top 10 pick would have a pathway to be a contributor, all of a sudden is like, can he play the three? Which is, like, not in his best interest. And so, I It seems weird to say. I wonder if he ultimately becomes more of a second draft guy who has to forge a path on a different team.

But I guess we'll see. See, I don't know about that. I think they're trying to slow play it a little bit with him. And I wouldn't be surprised if he sees some time at the three. When he has had the opportunity to flash on the perimeter a little bit, he's got something. Like, he's not just like a pure athlete who's going to be rim running. Like, he's got some shake to his game.

He can actually hit some shots. He has some moves. I think he's going to be. a part of their plans. But he's the part of your plans that as a 20-year-old and you're a team that's trying to make

now deep playoff runs every year, maybe you don't want to have to rely on him. And so you bring Obie Toppin, who was one of the better reserves in the NBA last season, back at a reasonable number, you have that safety net,

and you let Jarris Walker develop as he develops. And maybe he pops, and maybe he doesn't, but at least you're kind of covered. I think the Fort Wayne Matt Hans, that they still exist, they're going to be the major recipient of the Jaris Walker contributions.

You know they still exist. You could never get rid of the mad ant. I love the mad ants. All right. Most intriguing players still left on the board. Could be a trade candidate. Could be just a regular free agent. Rob, this was made for you.

Who do you have? You named mine already. I'm kind of surprised Tyos Jones is still out there, just twisting in the wind. Same. He feels like an inevitable piston. You know, just the guy who they're going to scoop up. into the Monte Morris slot.

And he's going to be the veteran who kind of, you know, whether he starts or comes off the bench, take this big bag of money. And I wonder if some of what we're seeing now is him waiting for someone else to please make me an offer. So I don't have to go play for the Pistons. That's just conjecture on my part. But looking at the market, as you

alluded to, Justin, there's not a lot of money out there for mid-tier free agents. Teams don't really know how much they should be paying those guys right now and they're really reluctant to give them big guaranteed salaries. I wonder if Tyos Jones at some point we'll look at what's available to him, which is mostly opportunities

if he's going to get paid to get paid by pretty bad teams and he's just coming off a season with the Wizards. Is there any chance that he would take the room exception and go play in Orlando, for example, $8 million or so for a season? It doesn't have to be a long-term deal. Take a one year, like, room or mid-level

or taxpayer mid-level, sign with somebody who's actually going to be kind of good, at least, and Orlando has a chance to be ascendant. They could really be a rocket this year if everything kind of breaks right for them. And part of breaking right would involve bringing in someone like Tyos Jones. Yeah, I think Trent Jr. has to,

I think he should be trying to do the Bruce Brown model. Like, go to a team that he absolutely fits with, you know, obviously take no money. Bruce Brown to Denver model. Yes, the Bruce Brown to Denver model. Go to a team that he absolutely, you know, fits in with. he fills a need and can have some incredible playoff moments with,

man, but it's tough when, you know, you thought you turned down 15 million and now guys are talking to you about taxpayer mid-level. That's tough. I don't know what he does, but I think he's intriguing, obviously, because of his shooting. And if he goes somewhere that has enough size and obviously won't be dependent on him for playmaking because God knows. He has none of that.

I think he could be, you know, he could help. Like, he could help of Minnesota, like, quite easily, right? But, like, he'd be literally signing for no money over there. Yeah. I think ideally if you're Gary Trent, you want not only the perfect situation in terms of fit and style, but you want a spot where you were kind of the clear sixth man. And the problem with fits like Minnesota is I could see him just getting kind of lost in the shuffle where sometimes they prioritize Nikiel Alexander Walker, for example, for defense or whatever

kind of the fit or the needs of the moment are, that's where it's tricky for guys like him who don't really guard very well. You know, like he can be a decent defender, but he's not consistent enough. And that, I think, is what got him on the wrong side of, for sure, Nick Nurse in the first place. I hope he finds a good fit, though. I think Gary Trent's a good player. He's just in search of a home in a way that a lot of these remaining free agents are.

Yeah, the one team, I'm kind of. keeping track of for a lot of these guys is Utah, because we talked about how Detroit has this just like bundle of cap space. The Jazz at this point have $38 million in cap space. Maybe they're just waiting to renegotiating extend Lori Marketing's deal. But if they decide to trade him, maybe all of a sudden there might be open roster spots for some of these guys can get a little more money and have more of an opportunity to play there. So I could see Jones and Trent fitting that sort of bill. The other guy I want to mention here is the guy we've kind of been talking around as a model. Bruce Brown, who just got his team option picked up, presumably to trade.

But I almost wonder if we're getting to the point here where everyone thinks they're going to trade Bruce Brown, but he just ends up playing for the team for the entire season. He seems like he's maybe more of a trade deadline sort of candidate. But I think a lot of teams can use Bruce Brown. And 23 million, though, is like... Denver could use Bruce Brown. Jesus, yeah. Denver could use a lot of different things.

But yeah, I think Bruce Brown should maybe be the model for a different type. the player where it's just like, can we get this guy who's a good player playing on a decent contract to a good team? Yeah, I don't think Bruce Brown or the Raptors particularly want Bruce Brown to be a raptor for this entire season. It's one of those situations where I would help both parties if they were able to find some kind of resolution to it just because he hasn't been a very natural fit for the way that they're trying to run and the young guys are trying to prioritize.

And like Darko's offense should work for him. There was a lot of theoretical match between Bruce and sort of an up-and-coming racquet. team just hasn't really panned out that way. And I don't know that a training camp is going to fix all of that slightly odd fit that has turned out to be. Yeah. I have a couple other maroon trade candidates on here. I have the Nets guys, Cam Johnson and Dorian Finney Smith.

Like you'd expect like a good team would want to add them. Malcolm Brogden now playing for the Wizards for some reason. Maybe he just wants to like get reps and steer another young team. if he had a good time doing that in Portland, Kyle Kuzma, Larry Nance, and Atlanta, and then some of the Blazers guys. So there were a couple good rotation players still to be had here. I wonder if there's some action that happens down the road.

Bold predictions. Did you guys already do yours with the Grizzlies, or do you have any others? Yeah, Clippers were mine. Was you did yours with the Grisys, right? Yeah, with the top four. Okay, so I have four here, and I'm going to do them in a cadence.

You got four bold predictions? They're not very bold as I'm looking at them now because I had Grizzlies top six. Okay. Oh, it's not bold enough. You got to bump up the Scoville scale, my friend. Let's what's the Habanero level? Yeah.

Well, I'm doing this almost like the... I get you some gold spend. Yeah, we're starting with the most tepid one. So we'll do the Grizzlies there. The Spurs will make the play in, which is the next one. I'm kind of tempering my enthusiasm here because you guys have been questioning my professionalism

and I just have such a sterling record. I just want to be. I just want to keep the train going. I can't be two out there. So we're going like 40 wins. I also want to hit pause on us pushing back on you in that way. There are only so many things in life

you really get to care about. And Justin, you of all people, care about less than anyone I know. So the fact that you're so fired up about Wimby and the Spurs, I feel like we need to encourage this. And we've been trying to quash it. We need to go the other way.

And to be honest, freaking KOC is trotting on your freaking corner here because I saw a YouTube reel this morning where you said Wemby's going to be in the MVP conversation next season. Raise the stakes, Jamie. Raise the stakes. He's going to finish in the top three of MVP next year.

That was KOC's take this morning on my YouTube reel. Wembe is going to quit and become the diplomat to France. So yeah, that was two. I have, okay, next one. OKC will win the most games in the regular season next year. So more than the Celtics, more than everybody else. Still not necessarily bold. Not that bold.

We're getting too there. I do think it might be tough just because as the outline, like the West might be 14 teams deep if the jazz decided to stick it in there. But I think you get into like a weird thing where if you try to like balance the wind totals of all these teams, you miss the point that like the, Thunder are going to be very good,

and I think they're going to win a lot of regular season games. This brings me to my last prediction, which is that the Knicks will finish with the one seed in the east, and Jalen Brunson will win MVP. Let's go. All right. Okay. Yeah. That's sufficiently bold.

I don't know if I believe it. I would say Shea is probably the favorite for said award, but if you want bold, I think that's definitely in play. Shea is going to be the case. I mean, we always say it could be the Luca year, but it could be the Luca year. a lot of that will I think depend on seeding if Dallas is one of those three teams

that sort of jumps the order from last year and cement themselves with the great regular season I could see Luca taking it but Brunson's gonna have a really good case and maybe some of the numbers aren't quite as eye-popping in terms of the scoring total huge narrative case for sure exactly and he's gonna have the like team building

LeBron case of they brought all these guys around him because he's such a great team teammate because they have this connection, because there's something organic that's developing here beyond just like mashing stars together, he's going to be on ballots. I think there's no doubt about that. When is what makes it bold and that's why I like it. So we'll see. All those guys they brought in as well, I don't think step on the amount of opportunities he's going to have like Bridges is more supplementary. Maybe Randall tries to do too much so we'll keep track of that.

But yeah, there's going to be a lot of New Yorkers full-throatedly supporting this guy. And if they get off to a good start, I can see the train just kind of keeps running. There's kind of a through line between those last two predictions, too, which is the implication of the Knicks being the one seed in the East and the Thunder winning the most games in the regular season is that the Celtics are probably not going to win as many games as they did last year. I feel like that's a pretty safe bet. They just had such an incredible regular season last run. Chris Staps is going to miss a good chunk of it, if not more than we expect. And they're going to be coming off the title where we usually see teams take their foot off the game. a little bit. And so if instead of

64, they end up with 57 to 60 wins, I think that would be well within the range of kind of what we expect of a champion in this position. And that leaves an opportunity for the NICs to jump up, for Oklahoma City to just be even a little bit better and take the exact sort of regular season

crown you're talking about. Yeah, I'm not sure the Celtics win a series still, but I do like the NICs as a regular season team at this point. But we'll circle back when we do our preseason pods, which will now be 10 hours, I believe. But we'll catch you this weekend.

We'll be back. I think we're going to record a pod. It's Friday night. So look for it in your feeds, probably Saturday morning. I think after that, we're kind of into the summer. So it won't be a lot of action

from the group chat boys. But we'll be back this weekend. Thank you to Ben Cruz. Thank you to Eddie Ocampo. We will see you next time. Must be 21 plus and 18 plus in D.C. And present in select states, Vandul is offering online sports

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