The Ringer NBA Show - Wizards' Magic, Iso Joe, and Kerr's Absence (Ep. 103)

Episode Date: April 27, 2017

The Ringer's Chris Vernon is joined by Washington Post NBA writer Tim Bontemps to discuss Wizards-Hawks (4:00), the Bucks' point totals (10:00), the Bulls without Rondo (15:00), the Spurs' struggles (23:00), Joe Johnson and the Jazz (27:15), offseason moves for the Clippers (34:00), and Steve Kerr's absence from the bench (44:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you need flexible small business financing, Cabbage has the answer. They've created a way for you to get approved right away online or from your phone for up to $100,000. Visit cabbage.com slash ringer. When you qualify, you'll get a $100 visa gift card. That's Cabbage with a K, K-A-B-B-A-G-E.com slash ringer. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. Joining me today, National NBA columnist for the Washington Post, Tim Bontems.

Spontems. Burd-all, what's up, buddy? Hey, man. Before we get into all of the basketball analyses, we must give a special, I want to send all our thoughts to all of our ESPN colleagues. Tim, much like you, when you work within this NBA bubble, you end up becoming friends with all the people. You see all these people all the time, and so a lot of our friends got bad news yesterday on the NBA side of coverage for ESPN. So I just want to thank all of them for their hard work. Hopefully everybody's going to be in a better spot from here on now.

But yesterday was rough, man. I was on the phone until late last night finding out more names of people that I had no idea had been let go. But it's certainly going to be a little bit of a different culture covering the NBA with so many guys that are now going to be looking for gigs. Yeah, I've become really good friends with you over the years covering the league. And it's the same for a lot of other people. I've been fortunate enough to have this job covering the league. But, yeah, like you said, a lot. You come to get used to seeing people lose their jobs as these various publications and networks downsides.

And yesterday was probably the toughest one yet. So, yeah, my thoughts go out. I'm telling the people who deserve it. Let's talk about the games that went down last night. The first one was the Wizards and the Hawks. And after I thought the Wizards looked really good in the first. couple of games of that series. I didn't know how big of a fight the Hawks were going to be able to put up. But obviously they win game three, they win game four, and the Hawks were right

there at the end of that game, certainly with the chance to win it last night against the wizard. So I guess my first thing is I've been rather impressed with the Hawks and what they've brought to the table. And the other thing is this series has been, this has turned out to be an extremely good series where now that game six tomorrow night should be great. But give me what you thought watching that Wizard Talks game unfold last night. Yeah, I disagree a little bit, just that I'm ready for the series to be over. Really? Yeah, I don't know.

I've watched these games. I just haven't really, it's been hard for me to get into them. There's been a million fouls called in every game. It basically since game one when they, you know, Paul Millsap and, Markief Morris looked back and forth about these MMA comments, and Markeith said they're going to be doing double MMA after that. It's just called a million fouls. In my opinion, hard to get much of a flow.

After game two, I thought that Atlanta was probably going to lose a game at home, maybe both. They went down to Atlanta and kicked the crap out of the Wizards twice and really controlled a lot of the game last night. Well, you know, I thought for quite a long stretch that they might win that game. but, you know, John Wall and Bradley Beal made some huge plays down the stretch. Bradley Bill mentioned a huge defensive plays on a few possessions. And, you know, game six tomorrow, you know, Yamahemi has been out with a calf injury,

and Jason Smith went out last night after having some kind of a calf contusion. So I think Marcy and Gortat had to play the entire second half. And without, if Jason Smith took up bigs, really. Washington could be in tough shape despite being up three-two. I mean, if they don't have any bigs behind Gortat and Morris, who've both been in foul trouble a lot in the series in game six and seven, you know, that could really give them a lot of trouble with the way Gort Todd

and or with the way that Millsap and Dwight Howard have been playing. Has your opinion of Dennis Schrooter changed? Mine has. This guy has been, he's been fantastic to him. He's been a lot better than I expected for sure. I've never been a huge Schroeder fan. He's been really good in the series. He was really good last night for him.

I mean, it's been a pretty rough year for Schroeder overall. He got benched a couple times in games for stuff. And, you know, he kind of struggled to adjust to be in a starting point off for the first time. But he's been, you know, he's been their second best player in this series behind Paul Milstap. That's a pretty big sign for them going forward. I mean, if he can carry this over to next year and play like this all season, you know, it's a big if.

But if he can, that changes a lot for them because he, you know, he's on a good contract. I think he's only making $60 million a year the next three years. And if he plays like this, instead of the regular season, Dennis Schroeder next year, they're going to be pretty happy with that deal. Who's the bigger problem for Cleveland? Between Washington, Atlanta? Yeah.

Because whoever they play would play the winner of Boston, Chicago. But I definitely think that on that side of the bracket, Washington is the best team. I'm a little more skeptical about Washington than it wasn't at the start of the series. I thought they would beat Atlanta kind of annually. I think that they, I think that Washington is the, team that can give them the most trouble. You look at those four teams between Chicago, Boston, Washington, and Atlanta,

and they'll give Washington the highest feeling. Their defense has been sketchy like Cleveland's. But you saw this year the Wizards played the Cavs at home and needed a crazy LeBron turnaround favorably in March, and they blew the cab. I don't think that Washington would win that series, but I do think those two guys wouldn't be afraid of playing the Cavs, and I do think that have the ability to make that at least a competitive series. Yeah, the only thing I worry about is their bench.

But yeah, the reason I asked is because I am, what we're doing now is out of these series, you just want, at least for me, the reason I'm asking you that is what you want is whatever would be most competitive. And I agree with you on Washington. With those two guys in the firepower and Porter, Markief Morris might be able to do an okay job on Kevin Love. And Gortat really pushed around Tristan Thompson in their game, which is kind of burned in memory, that last couple weeks of the season when those two teams played. But I think if we are, I think if we're trying to find somebody out of that particular

series that we could foresee at least forcing a game six, a game seven against Cleveland, that that would be the one. I guess Toronto got to six last year, right? Because I think they were, what was Cleveland was like 14 and two in the playoffs or something like that. So only one team got two games off of them last year. So if we're trying to search for who could at least win a couple games or possibly even push them to a seventh game, are you higher on Washington than you are Toronto now? I think Toronto is better suited. I think the team best suited to beat the Cavs.

But as you see the way that as you see the way that Toronto has played against the box and again struggled to do basic stuff here in the playoffs, I mean, for me, it's just hard to trust that team. at this point. Like, you know, I came in these playoffs, thinking Toronto with the second best team in the East, they had Lowry healthy. It's like, all right, this is finally the year that the rap, and then they're going to get the Kaz in the second round. It's going to be a war, and we'll see if they can finally take that next step and, like, be a team you can trust in the playoffs. Sure enough, they come out to get, they get blown out in game one. They've blown out in game three. You know, they've managed to get back up on top three, two. They're going to Milwaukee tonight. I bet they lose that game tonight, because

like they've lost game six a bunch of times last few years, and they'll probably be back in Toronto for game seven Saturday and try and advance that. I mean, it's, you know, so yeah, in short, I guess, I would like to say Toronto is a team that should give Cleveland the most trouble. But with the way Lowry and DeRosen have played in the playoffs, it's hard for me to believe that if they struggle like this against Milwaukee, that all of a sudden when they play Cleveland,

they're going to go to another level. And it's just not that they lost those games that they have lost in the Buck series. It's the point total they have put up. I get that the Bucks are a really good defensive team sometimes that create a lot of bad matchups because they're so long. But 76 and 77 points, that is just, it is impossibly bad. I mean, it's one thing to struggle, but you don't see teams not breaking 80. much less twice within a series. That's crazy. Oh, totally crazy. And that goes back to my point, right?

I mean, Kyle Lowry and DeMarie and DeRosa for the last few years have been guys that were great in regularly season, got to the playoffs and struggled. And you've seen that again in this series. I mean, Lowry has mostly been bad, and DeRosen's been up and down. He's had a couple really good games. He's had a couple really bad games. And, you know, look, if you've got an all-star back court like that, you just can't have them be that inconsistent. it. And you've seen the Raptors have, you know, they take their cues from those guys. And if those guys are playing well, they look great. And if those guys

are playing like crap, they look really bad. And, you know, you know that Cleveland is getting it from LeBron every single night. Kyrie and Love might be all over the place, but you know LeBron is coming with huge numbers every night. And Toronto is going to beat Cleveland or be in that series.

They need Kyle Lowry and Marter Rosen at the good level for any games they don't play well. All right. As we said earlier that Washington, Atlanta, they're going to have to face the winner of Boston versus Chicago. And that series has flipped completely post-Rondo injury. Boston has won three straight games. Hoiberg's getting pretty beat up over some of the game management that has taken place. But I'll ask you this. If we take a step back, do you believe that Boston figured some things out and it just happened to coincide with the Rondo injury? Like how much

How much do we just describe what has taken place in that series to Ray John Rondo got hurt? And if Rondo would have never gotten hurt, then all this stuff about Hoyberg's rotations and everything else, we wouldn't even be talking about because Boston would have taken care of him. Do you believe that? Do you believe if Rondo never got hurt that Chicago wins that series? I think that they're up. I think they win at least one game in Chicago if he's there. I mean, the series has still been competitive, even with Hoyberg being a complete disaster.

and their point guard play being even worse since Ronald. To me, if Rano was there, you know, I do think they would have probably won a game in Chicago, and it'd be 3-2 goalback Chicago with a chance to them to close it out tomorrow. Doesn't it feel, let me interrupt you real quick. No, go ahead. Doesn't it feel, though, that if Rondo doesn't get hurt,

Hoyberg's not a disaster? That's kind of how it feels to me. Yeah, I mean, yes and no. I think, you know, I was saying this after game two. You know, Hoyberg had a plan that worked the first couple games, and Boston didn't really adjust. But as I was saying to people then, you know, I was very curious to see if he could make any adjustments at all,

if Brad Stevens did anything in return. And you saw in games three and four, you know, as soon as the, as soon as the Celtics just run a few more basic high-picking roll actions for Isaiah Thomas, Robin Lopez was suddenly being yanked out of the game and left on the bench. And, you know, he was the one big advantage they had, right? Like they had Rondo and Butler and Wade play well, you know, at times the first couple of games. They had Robin Lopez destroying them on the offensive class.

Well, then they have Robin Lopez on the bench. They're playing Joffrey LaBern big minutes and they're going through point guards. And they're just doing all this crazy stuff. And I think that would have ended up being a problem anyway. He wouldn't have been as big of a disaster, obviously, if Rondo was there, but you still would have seen the lack of adjustments from this team. It just felt like everything was kicking. It just felt like everything was kicking.

People were talking about Bobby Portis. They're talking about Paul Zipser. They're talking about playoff Rondo. And like, if you just take that snapshot of the one moment in time after those first two games, and then it just all went to hell in a handbasket. Like, they can't win without him. Because the drop off is so severe. They can't even withstand, you know, a few minutes of some of these guards that he's putting out there.

I mean, like, can't even, they just die. Yeah. I think I saw you tweet last night, like, Michael Carter Williams, he played like, you know, two seconds and he's a negative. Like, immediately, he's like immediate negative. He's atrocious. He's completely atrocious. I mean, the thing that I don't get, I mean, as Fred Hoiberger's rotation really less, as I've called it, just rolls on and he just keeps trying random crap to see if it will work.

I can't understand how Denzel Valentine can't get a chance to play in these games. Like what did Denzel Valentine do to never get a shot? I mean, here's a guy who was a star at Michigan State last year, was expected to walk in and at least be able to play right away, right? Four-year senior, like you thought he would walk in and play. and instead they're playing Paul Zips or another rookie big minutes. They haven't played him at all. They played Anthony Morrow over him last night.

And I saw people saying, well, Hoyberg must just not trust Valentine's defense. And I think you and I both know, Anthony Morrow, A, one of the best guys in the league and B, will probably be the first one to tell you who never guards anybody. So if defense is a problem, then you can't play in Morrow or I say insane decisions. I just don't, you know, that's just one of many examples of things with Huyberg that I just don't understand. why in this series where you need shooting and guys who can create for you, you're not playing the first round pick you drafted a year ago who was, in theory,

able to do those things. Is Boston in trouble versus either Washington or Atlanta? You've watched this series, and to me, they're a fine theme that worn a lot of games in the regular season based off, you know, having a lot of depth and having Isaiah Thomas do some insane stuff in crunch time of games. You saw the thunder kind of to being a good team this year with Westbrook doing insane stuff late and them kind of grind it out wins. And when you get in the playoffs, it's more likely to fail. And the fact that Boston is having this much trouble with the Bulls, it's a sign that if they play Washington Orwell, you know, I think especially if they play the Wizards.

I mean, I just really think if they play that Washington team, it just, it's hard for me to see how they're going to go from barely beating Boston to, or barely be in Chicago to beating a much better Wizards team. But who knows? Maybe they'll be this year's Toronto, and they'll figure out of make the conference finals and they get destroyed by Cleveland. But I think that Boston's run one way or the other ends in the second round. Interesting because – and I hope it is Washington that we get that matchup

because of the whole, you know, everybody wearing black to the game, dressing like they're going to a few – That has a chance in – It'll be a really fun series for sure. Yeah, we haven't had – we don't have rivalries, really anymore. That would make for, you know, they need to go to war in a playoff series against each other and really get that rivalry going because we've gotten some good moments in it, but not like the deep playoff series where everybody really ends up hating each other. And we don't

really have that much anymore. So I'm kind of rooting for that to take place just so we can see that whole thing play out and maybe a real rivalry get going. Yeah. No, it would be a lot of fun. I mean, you're right. I mean, we don't have, we don't have a lot of those rivalers anymore. You know, Warriors' cast is kind of becoming that more. And, you know, but, but Wizards, Wizards Celtics would be a great series. I mean, even though I think both those teams have significant flaws, you know, I think, you know, to your point, they don't like each other. Bradley Beale and John Wall and Mark Keith Morris, like the Wiz have a lot of guys who will say a lot of stuff. And the Celtics have a lot of guys who will say a lot of stuff. And I think it would be

You know, from our standpoint, from a narrative standpoint and from an entertainment value standpoint, you know, like I said, even though those teams have some flaws, I think it would be a really, really fascinating series. All right. Let me get to tonight's games. We kind of touched on Bucks Raptors. The Raptors are hard to trust. I know they won that last game that was played in Milwaukee, but they're hard to trust. You know that Milwaukee will be jumping tonight in the elimination game. I do kind of think Milwaukee's going to force a game seven.

That's what you think, too, right? I do. I do. It's hard for me to see, you know, Toronto, as I've said, we've seen this script before from Toronto and they fall apart in game six and lose. And, you know, I think Janice Ante Dacumpo is going to get the bucks to a game seven, and then we'll see what happens on Saturday back in Toronto. The late game is the one I'm going to be at.

Grizzly Spurs. Grizzlies have a chance to force a game seven against San Antonio. your view from the outside watching this series play out with the Grizzlies and the Spurs. What do you think? A couple things. I picked Kauai Leonard for MVP, and I picked him for MVP in large part because I thought people had vastly overrated his supporting cast. And for all the talk that James Hardin and Russell Westbrook were doing all this stuff with not very good teams, I looked at Kauai Leonard's team, and I saw a lot of big-name players that are past their prime that were not that good anymore.

and he dragged that team to 60 plus wins. And I think, no offense to your Grizzlies, I think what we've seen in this series, Kauai has been absolutely unbelievable in the first five games of the series, up three, two, and, you know, had pretty close games in game two and game five. You know, they ended up pulling away late.

But, you know, if you said before the series that Kauai Ler was going to have the stat line that he has now, you would have said the series went four or five. I think it's now going six, and I agree with you, could very easily go seven. I think to me reinforces that spurs are in big trouble as they go forward with that sporting cast. As for Memphis, you know, look, I thought this year is going to be pretty quick. And I've been unbelievably impressed the fight that Memphis has showed,

especially without Tony Allen and Chandler Parsons. You know, they're two projected starting wings coming into the year. And I think that David Fisdale deserves a lot of credit. It's funny. And, you know, it was a great, you know, cultural moment. And, you know, it was funny to see a guy like Fisdale get that wound up and start all these memes and T-shirts and stuff. But, you know, he's made some nice adjustments in this series to get Memphis back into it. I mean, playing, you know, playing your guys, Zach Randolph and Marcosol together again against, you know, Popovich's big front line was a smart move.

It helped start to turn the tide in the series. And, you know, Mike Conley has been, Mike Connolly and Marcosol have been tremendous. You know, those two guys have played like All-Stars. So if the Spurs, I don't know if Grisels will be able to win again tonight. I pick the Spurs to win this one tonight. I think they'll probably find a way to close it out. But if you told me that the Grizzly sent this back to San Antonio for a game seven, wouldn't be surprised at all.

It's been a really impressive series to watch. Throughout the regular season and throughout the playoffs, neither of these two teams have won on the other's home court. So there's part of me that holds on to that. The other thing is you have this just, seriously extreme version of role players, periphery players playing better at home than they do on the road. The Grizzlies other guys have been miserable in San Antonio.

The San Antonio guys have been miserable in Memphis. And yet when you see San Antonio playing at home, like they did the other night, those guys, I swear, there's five-minute stretches where they just don't miss at all. And they get, you know, it's not like they get crap shots in Memphis. They just don't make them. And there's another part is when you were talking about how some of their big-name guys are just older,

it's, and I think you're right that if they do end up beating the Grizzlies, they're in trouble the next round. They can't do it every game, Tim. It's an every once-in-a-wild deal. Mano Genobley hadn't hit a shot until game five. And then he had big points in the first quarter. I mean, we've seen a game this series where Tony Parker had 22 and another one where he had zero. You know, there's just, you know, Kauai is the only thing you can count on.

And I don't trust Aldridge a bit, none. I mean, hell, that game went to overtime. The game four game that was epic that went to overtime, a guy had two rebounds in like 40-something minutes. It was crazy. So Kauai, I think you're right. Once you get past Kauai, who do you trust, you know, to give it? it to you. Yeah. No, totally. Totally. I mean, I think, I think your point about Lamarcus is well said. I mean, he's really not looked like the same player. And, you know, I think that they're going to lose to

the Rockets. I thought that going into the playoffs, and I still believe that. You look at Houston's team, right? And the Powell-Gasol, Tony Parker, point card center axis, I think is going to get demolished by James Harden. Like, I just, they're going to run pick and roll after pick and roll after pick and roll. And you know, Dan Tony, he is ruthless. Like, if he finds a weak spot on the court, he's having his guys attack it every time. You saw it in Oklahoma City. All with him in it, every single possession and obliterated the thunder. And they're going to do the same thing with Powis Saul when he's on the court. They're going to do the same thing with David Lee when he's on the court. His first team, and I just don't, I don't see how they're going to score enough. Like, you know,

You know, Houston's getting to 110. And for me, especially on the road, like you said, I can't see the Spurs getting to 110. Well, even against the – Even against the others, the other night, they played out of their minds and put up 116. I mean, you might have to – Right. You might have to score – I mean, you've got to get to 115 against Houston, you know. Yeah.

Right. They're going to score 110. Like, they're just going to do it. So you've got to get to – you've got to get to 110. Yep. And like you said, at home, I think they can do it if they shoot well, because Houston ain't exactly playing D either. Like Memphis is going to be a tougher team defensively than Houston. But, yeah, I mean, you know, and look, I think they're going to win the series.

But look, I mean, Mark, Mike Connolly and Marcosol have been fantastic. And, you know, it wouldn't shot me at all if they win tonight. And, you know, I would certainly expect the spurs to close out at home in game seven. But, you know, those guys have been, those guys have been great. And, you know, I doubt him coming into the series. So I'm not going to doubt them anymore. Well, the Grizzlies have like a million, but, you know, they got a ton of playoff minutes. And obviously, when they're playing against the Spurs, that doesn't really matter that much because they've got like 500 playoff games under their belt.

But the Grizzlies, it's not like this is new for them. Even a game six pressurized situation or a game seven pressurized situation, they've been in a lot of wars in the past. They haven't come out on the right end of them. They would just, I mean, obviously, if they could get the win tonight, they would literally have to play their best game of the entire season. But, I mean, it's 48 minutes. It's one night, right? If you did it, then you would be able to knock off the spurs.

But tough task for sure. They're up against it. The other series that we have not mentioned so far is the Clippers Jazz. And this ISO Joe thing, you covered Johnson when you were covering the next. And so I'm interested in your perspective on this. I think, you know, I remember at the beginning of the season we were talking about the jazz, one of the questions that I asked leading into the preseason was, can Gordon Hayward be the best guy on a contender?

And we thought we'd see it as the season played out. And of course he made his first all-star team. And Gordon Hayward is legitimately awesome. But it is not Gordon Hayward, right? We wondered with the way the jazz were, game on the line, need a bucket, who's the guy? And that answer was always, well, it's going to have to be Hayward. And then they have this Joe Johnson playoff revelation, which is, I mean, this is crazy. So as someone who knows Johnson and covered him for a couple years out there when you were on the Brooklyn beat, what do you make of all this?

A million times before. Joe Johnson, to me, is one of the most underrated players of the last 10 or 15 years. He's a guy who has, I think, very unfortunately, been come to define by the money he's been paid and the fact that he's made a bunch of all-star teams that people didn't think he should make. The second part, I think, is nonsense. And the first part, I think, is complete nonsense. He has been a tremendous, has always been a guy that's been able to, that's been incredibly smart about how he uses his body to create space and get shots off. I mean, you saw that play in game one.

When he dribbles down, he goes to the left wing, he gets Jamal Crawford on his left hip. He takes two dribbles in the middle lane and puts up that 10-foot floater. I've seen that move maybe seven million times in person. And it works every time because he's a six-seven guy who's like 255 pounds. that's a two guard. I mean, he's, he's not, he's the closest thing to LeBron in a wing in the league. And I don't mean that like he's LeBron James, but like there's just no wing players that have, that are built like him.

I mean, he's, that's why he's been able to transition so easily to playing power forward, even as he's gotten to his mid-30s, because he's just built. He's this massive guy that is able to use his size and speed and, his size and strength and the angles to get to his spots on the floor. where he's comfortable and make buckets. And he's a great spot-up shooter, always has been. I mean, I think, you know, you look at how well Vince Carter has played up until his 40th birthday, right, with the Grizzlies, been tremendous role player for them.

To me, Joe Johnson will be able to be doing this for five, six, seven years, if he wants. Like, I, I, because his game has never been built on athleticism in terms of speed or quickness. I mean, he's always a guy that's, you know, played with kind of. this old man's style and using his strength and the angles and everything. So for me, as somebody who likes Joe personally and has always thought he's gotten a bum rap for his contract and some of the stuff that's gone on and it's seen him, you know, 2014 basically by himself and then go toe to toe to toe with LeBron and the next series, or the heat series, the following round.

Fun for me to see a guy that's, I think, really been unfairly, you know, get some credit and some just due for a hell of a series and potentially getting the, getting the jazz into the second round of the playoffs. What befells him is what, you know, would hurt Hardin this year in terms of, and Kauai, for that matter, in terms of an MVP case. And while I was on the Westbrook side of things, I am well aware of the way that coverage can change our perception about things. And Russell Westbrook makes for the absolute best highlights, right?

Hardin does not. Yep. why does not. And for an entire career, Joe Johnson just doesn't. He just doesn't make for good highlights, right? It's like other than his buzzer beaters. Other than his buzzer beaders. It's like Duncan, you know what I mean? It's almost like a game winner is the only way that you're going to see a video on, on Twitter about Joe Johnson or with Tim Duncan or any of these guys, right? Whereas every play some of these other guys make If it happens, you're aware of it within five minutes where Joe Johnson, I mean, hell, I don't even, there's probably a lot of Joe Johnson highlight videos, but none of them have been watched all that much, you know?

Right, exactly. No, and it's he's not boring, you know, people, you know, people gave me, you know, Howard Beck famously gave him the ISO Joe Moniker back in 2012 when I was covering the nets with him. and, you know, he doesn't have this flashy, overwhelmingly exciting style of all, but it's effective and it's been effective for years. And, you know, he just continues to get the job done. And it, like I said, is somebody who likes Joe personally and has seen him, you know, like I said, I just have always thought it was crap that this guy has gotten ragged on for getting paid a ton of money by the Hawks in 2010. Like, why is it his fault that he got a six-year contract?

I mean, I just, I've never, I've never understood that. I mean, he, you know, I don't know why he gets blamed for making money. But it's, it's fun to see him on this stage and having this kind of success, having this kind of success to play this kind of role, you know, with the young Utah team that's your point, really needed a guy like him, right? I mean, like you said, coming into the season, that was our big question about Utah. Do they have somebody that's able to step up at the big moments? And, you know, Gordon Hayward's had some really big moments in the series, too.

but having Joe Johnson there as the old reliable guy that you can throw the ball to and know that down the stretch of games you're going to get a bucket you know that's been a huge thing for them and a big reason why they got a chance to close us out tomorrow night is tomorrow night the end of the clippers as we know them who knows I saw you joking about how you're not too upset after the many battles they've had with the gris

that the clips are going down at flames and I can't blame you I mean I personally would have been happy to see those two teams go up against each other again I mean that's as you talked about earlier with rivalries in the league, that's a true rivalry we don't really get anymore. But I don't know, man. I mean, look, if it was me, if I was at Clippers, I would not be re-signing Blake Griffin this summer.

I would potentially not be resigning Chris Paul this summer, so I would lean towards keeping him. And I would be readjusted things personally. With Griffin, you got to do it. With Griffin, you'd have to do a sign-in trade. I mean, you can't get nothing for him. You can't just let him go. I don't know. I would rather, I would rather get nothing.

I mean, if you could do a sign-and-trades, fine, but then teams are hard-capped. It's hard to do sign-in-trades now. I mean, to me, look, here's the thing, right? If you keep Blake Griffin, you're paying him five years and, what, $180 million, right? Guys, 28 years old. He's had season-ending injuries the last two years. He's had myriad leg injuries the last three years. He's a guy whose game was built.

built on athleticism and explosion that is now in his late 20s and has had a million leg injuries. I mean, to me, I think this next contract for Blake Griffin could wind up looking a lot like Amari Stadamara's contract with the Knicks, where at the beginning of it, he looked great and looked like an MVP candidate. And by the end of it, his body just had broken down on him. And he just, he was a good role player, but he was a good role player making $25, $26 million a year. and I love Blake's game. I think he's always been underrated in terms of the skills. I think he's got more ball skills than people give him credit for.

I think he was not playing out a team with Chris Paul. He could be kind of a point forward for a team. But I just look at him, and to me, if you commit to sign him for five years that much money, I just think it's tough. I mean, I think it's going to be tough to build a contender with him. And look, the way the NBA is going right now, you know, Blake Griffin's kind of a square peg in a round hole. I mean, you need power forwards now that can either shoot threes consistently

or be great defensive players or be kind of point forward types, right? Like Draymond Green has kind of become the prototypical power forward the teams are looking for. And Blake can do the passing stuff and the ball handling stuff, but he can't do the other two. I just think it's going to be tough to build a contender on him. So to me, I would move in a direction of trying to do a stopgap, year, find some guys, give one-year deals to guys, try to have something around Blake, or Chris and DeAndre for a year.

Then go into free agency next summer when LeBron's a free agent, when Paul George is a free agent, when DeMarcus is a free agent, there's a bunch of guys next summer that could be free, maybe try to get some guys to come then and kind of build the next stage of the team. But who knows? I mean, the Clippers you would have thought would have been broken up multiple times last few years, and they keep bringing the same. crew back. So if I was running the team, that's what I would do. I wonder if Doc could withstand it.

Well, I mean, there's been a lot of rumors about Doc potentially being interested in the Orlando job or going other places. I mean, I don't think he's going to leave. But everybody keeps, let me ask you about this. Because everybody keeps talking amongst our old media friends, that's a big topic of conversation. It's just been, for the last couple months, I keep hearing about, oh, yeah, Doc's going to go to Orlando. It's like one of these things. that everybody talks about, but then I never... Just let me hear what...

Is the idea, because I never really press on this, is the idea that obviously they blew out Hennigan, that he would go there and he would run that team or he would run that team and coach that team and then that would mean they just blow out Vogel? I'm not sure. Oh, okay. I'm honestly not sure.

I mean, I don't... I think he would want to coach. Yeah. But I don't know. I mean, you know, when Jason Kidd went to the box, initially he was going to just be team president. And then, you know, things got kind of reworked around and he ended up coaching. So, you know, I'm not sure what the situation would be, but there's just been a lot like there's just, that's been a hot rumor, not just with the media, but around the league for a while that Doc, you know, potentially could wind up back in Orlando. He's got a home there.

You know, it, it, who knows? all I'll say is that with the Clippers right now, with Blake and J.J. Reddick and Chris Paul, all three ages this summer. I think trying to project out what's going to happen, I think it's impossible. It's going to be. And look, the other thing we don't know here, right,

is this is Steve Ballmer's first chance as owner of the Clippers to make a really big decision. Like he came in, he buys the team, everybody's under contract. Doc Rivers is already in charge. Like, everything is all set up, right? So let's see. Maybe Balmer says, you know what?

I don't think this is working. I don't know. It's going to be, you know, it's a big inflection point for them. They lose to the jazz. And they go home in the first round for the second year in a row. They don't make it out of the playoffs, the first and second round for the 60 year in a row. At some point, I just got to think if you're even Chris and Blake,

you got to look around and go, what am I doing? Like, am I just signed it up to losing to be to West Coast Hawks? I mean, maybe they will be. It's going to be a fascinating summer for them, no matter what happens. If they get by the series, you get crushed by the Warriors, or they lose to the Jazz, it'll be really, really interesting to see what happens. Last thing, that team that you just mentioned, the Warriors, you've been covering them all year long. They were clearly devastating in the first round.

I mean, they just buried Portland. And that first quarter of that last game, that game four, was just. That was like peak of powers. Anybody that watched that is thinking, oh, my God. Who could feasibly deal with this? Of the two, the Clippers and the Jazz, could you foresee either of them winning multiple games against the Warriors? No.

I think the Clippers would probably get swept. I think the Jazz, the Jazz, well, maybe the Jazz could win two if everything breaks right. The Warriors played the Jazz three or four times this year, and the Jazz were never even close to healthy for any of them. I would like to see them play a healthy Utah team. I think it would be a fun series. You know, the Warriors don't have an answer for Rudy Gobert necessarily. It would be like a couple years ago, right?

It would be kind of a couple years ago when the Grizzlies played the Warriors in the sense that if you can play them in the 90s, then the Jazz have a chance, but the Jazz ain't going to be scoring no hundred. 15 points. So, right? It's just this imposition of wills, at least with those two. Yeah, no, no, you're totally right. I think that's a great, I think that's a great comparison. You know, Utah's kind of a throwback team like those when Memphis was, you know, I think you'd even admit when Memphis was at another level, winning close to 60 games. I mean,

that's, you know, that's kind of the team they've grown into. And it would be a fun contrast and styles. And look, I just, I've seen this clipper thing with the Warriors, right? 10 games in a row that the that the Clippers have lost to the Warriors. And this season, you would see the Clippers after these games, and they looked like they were, like they were coming out of a war zone.

I mean, they just, they were just totally in shock about what happened. So, I mean, I think from my standpoint, I would just much rather see a Utah series, just from a stylistic standpoint, seeing something different.

But, you know, as good as Utah has been, and as impressive, job as Quinn Snyder's done as coach for them. It's hard for me to see, it's hard for me to see them really pushing at most two games in that series. I just think Golden State, as you saw the last couple of games in this Portland series, especially game four. They're just so much better than everyone else. And if their guys are healthy through the playoffs, I just don't see how they're going to lose to anybody. Durant fine?

Yeah, he seems fine. I mean, he obviously, you saw on Monday, he comes out in game four, has that massive dunk and a couple of huge plays in the first quarter, a couple blocks. And, you know, then the game was over, and it was basically just a controlled scrimmage after that. But we're to the point where it's probably not going to, like, you don't, you don't foresee a circumstance where this is, this is tough on Durant to be playing every single game throughout the playoffs. do you think he's fine now? I think so. I mean, look, you never know, right?

But I think they just were extremely cautious with this calf injury because they could be, right? They're playing Portland. The team they should have crushed and they did. And they could give Durant extra time with a tricky injury. I mean, calf injuries can be tricky. So they give him some extra rest and make sure he's okay. And it comes back and looks great. And now he gets an entire week off to rest.

and they're not going to play until it earliest Sunday and you know maybe not until maybe not until Tuesday before eight days off so you know I think that you know as long as like I said as long as their four guys are healthy and their supporting tasks is relatively healthy you know obviously it'd be better for them

as Steve Kerr came back but even if even if Steve needs to take the rest of the playoffs off and get his health situation right they just have so much talent That I really just can't. Tim, Tim, that that Kerr thing is just heartbreaking because, you know, I know people that, I know people that know him. And obviously he's, he's talked about the surgery. You know, even when he was on a, he was on a podcast earlier this year with Simmons, and he was, he said, I would discourage anyone from getting back surgery unless they absolutely have to.

Because it has been, it has just been a nightmare for him. And from people I know that know him, it's been one of those. he is in such pain all the time that at least the coaching he could at least he's doing something fun it's like i'm either going to be in hell around my house i'm being held doing something that i want to do um because that's how much pain the guy is it's really good you know yeah and now now it's really good that yeah i mean look he can't golf like he can't he can't do anything he the symptoms have never really gone away i mean you know he got to the point where he could come back, and so he did, right?

But he never got to a point where it was fixed. And, yeah, I mean, look, as Steve would be the first to tell you, he's got a really good life, right? Like, he's making a lot of money. He's got a great job. He's, you know, he's had an incredibly successful career. So as a player, as an executive, as a coach. So it's not like he, he's never going to be one to, ask anybody for sympathy, right?

But it's been tough. You know, as somebody who likes him personally, it's just about anybody does who meets Steve Kerr. I mean, there's a few people that are better, more decent people than him anywhere, let alone in the league than him. It's been really tough to see. I mean, it's tough to see him in this kind of physical pain all the time,

where it's just constantly, and problems like that, and then going and coach in basketball games in 20,000-seat arenas with all the lights and all the noise and everything that's going on in those games and having to do media stuff multiple times a day and everything else that comes with being a head coach of a team.

Like it's just, and to do it with the way he's done it, being, you know, not even really letting anybody on the outside know he's having problems and, you know, still being a friendly guy and smiling and laughing and, you know, talking about social issues and, like, all the stuff that Steve has done. it's pretty remarkable he's been able to even do this much. Yeah, I mean, I think I think anybody who's ever met him would agree that,

you know, it just would be really nice if he could find, not just so he could come back and coach because, you know, this is such a great opportunity for him that would be a shame if it had to go away for him not being able to coach through with this. But also just from a life standpoint, like it just would be, you just don't want a routine basis like this. So I certainly hope that over the next couple weeks here, you know, Steve can find something that works for him.

And if not now, then in the summer over the next few months, he can get himself to a point where going to the next season, you know, hopefully this isn't a thing that's still hanging over him like this. Me too. Obviously, there is that basketball angle to it, though, Tim, which is, and you talked about him, you talk about them as long as they had their four guys. You do not believe that his absence, if it has to be prolonged, possibly all the way through the finals,

that his absence on that bench would change the ultimate trajectory of whatever the warriors are destined to achieve, which most people would predict a championship, that that does not change if Kerr can't be there for it? Yeah, I mean, look, I don't want to make it seem like the Warriors don't need a coach, because that's not true. I don't think that's true. I think Steve has done a tremendous job. And as you know, Chris, I mean, there's a lot that goes into coaching besides just the X's and O's on the court.

There's the managing of guys. There's a manager in the locker room. There's all that kind of stuff. I would seriously say, hey, I mean, I mean this honestly. And it's something that I always, I think I foolishly disregarded sometimes years ago when Lionel Hollins was the coach. And that is when you go through an. Listen, when you get to that level, virtually everybody, and if they can't, then somebody on their bench, the X's and O's are going to be taken care of. It ain't that complicated.

Okay. But dealing with people, the ability to get through to guys, manage egos, get them to play every single night. And most importantly, the managing egos part is a massive percentage of successful basketball coaches, right? that I think I think you know it's always about your inbound what you're out of bounds playing what are your rotations like and whatever else and those all matter right and they are all worthy of criticism but that whole dealing with the egos is is so much greater than what I originally perceived I would say until I was around it every day

yeah I mean it's like everything else right like it's easy and this is not a knock on anybody listening, but like it's easy to stay at home. And we're talking about a road with Hoyberg, right? So that's a little different situation. But it's easy to stay at home and watch the game and say, why isn't the coach playing X guy, right? Or why isn't he doing this? Why isn't he doing that?

And, you know, there's usually reasons. Maybe they're not always the right reasons, but there's usually reasons. And there's a lot, like I was saying before, there are, there's, like, the head coach of a team is basically the CEO of a team, right? There's like, he's a CEO, the GM is a CEO of the whole organization. But like the head coach is the CEO of a team. And he's got 15 guys on that team, all of whom think they should be playing 48 minutes, all of whom think they should be getting every shot.

And you've got to manage that. You've got to keep everybody happy on the same page, going in the right direction. I mean, that stuff is all really hard to do. And it takes a certain kind of guy to do it. And so I'm not trying to say that not having Steve Kerr would, be a, like it wouldn't matter because I think it would matter. But even if Steve isn't on the bench, you've already seen like he was at game four. He just wasn't on the bench.

He was in the locker room and he's been around. So I think even if he isn't able to return to the sideline this season, he's still going to be around. And he's still going to be involved. And so I think his presence will still be felt even if it's not literally, during the games. And Mike Brown, the reason they went and hired Mike Brown is because he has coached the NBA finals. He's won coached the year awards. He's won a ton of games. He's dealt with star players before. He's his experience as assistant coaches as there is in the league from a head coach's perspective. And he can step in and run a game. And he's always been

extremely well prepared. That stuff's not going to be a problem. And again, I just think if Golden State, if it was last year and Golden State that was the talent level was was more even. I could see it potentially being a problem. But I just think they have so much talent now that I really just think that as long as their guys are healthy and things stay basically the way they are now, I just don't know how anybody is going to be able to beat them.

He is Tim Bontem's National columnist for The Washington Post. Follow him on Twitter at Tim Bontemst. Montemps. You're the man. Thanks, buddy. I appreciate you coming on today. Anytime, my man. Hope to talk to you again soon. That's going to do it for another Ringer NBA show. If you did what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes, and we will talk to you on Tuesday.