The Ringer NBA Show - Would You Be Shocked If … ? (Second Half of the Season Predictions) | The Answer

Episode Date: January 22, 2022

Chris and Seerat start the pod by reacting to the Suns' big win over the Mavericks on Thursday night and discuss the possibility of Phoenix returning to the NBA Finals. They then pivot to the MVP race and where some of the superstars should rank in the conversation, notably Luka Dončić, Joel Embiid, Nikola Jokić and Chris Paul. (10:00) Next they touch on Daryl Morey's recent comments regarding Ben Simmons and the current trade market (16:55), Kyrie's Irving's return to the Nets (24:28) and the effect Lonzo Ball's injury will have on the Bulls' season. They wrap everything up by talking about the Lakers' future with or without Frank Vogel (32:31) and the state of the Utah Jazz.(38:10) Hosts: Chris Ryan and Seerat Sohi Production Assistant: Chris Sutton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Let's help everybody. I'm JJ John Gistramski. And I'm Jason Gough, and if you haven't heard, the ringer has gone local. I'm bringing the fire. I'm bringing the rain from the Big Apple with my show, New York, New York. And I'm reping Shy Town with my new show The Full Go on All Things Chicago. We've got episodes three nights a week with all the reaction to the local teams and guests. Plus bonus episodes around all the big games and storylines.

So whether you're uptown, downtown, downtown, in the burbs, or a transplant. Make sure you follow New York, New York, and the full go on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Hello and welcome to the Ringer NBA show. It's The Answer. I'm Chris Ryan. I'm joined as always by Siritt. Sohey, what's up, Siritt? Chris, how's it going? Well, it's going great.

We're quickly approaching the All-Star game, or at least the All-Star voting, which I think you've heard probably on our podcast network. A lot of people have been doing their All-Star teams, so we wanted to try and switch it up a little bit different. We're actually, at this point, I think, a little bit for most of the teams past the midway point in the season. So it's time to start thinking about the home stretch here. I'm always looking forward.

You know what I mean? Like, that's what makes me the politician that I am is I can keep my eyes on the sunset coming. And I wanted to talk a little bit about the second half of the season and ask you a couple of questions. And we'll put this all under the umbrella of would you be shocked? So would you be shocked if any of these things happen? And we'll talk about each one of them. This is just a way for us to talk about the second half of the season. Has your NBA week been, by the way?

It's been fun. It's been fun. I've been working on an Aiton profile. So, you know, it's in those successive months. moments of just like sometimes it feels great sometimes i feel like a genius and i have no idea what i'm doing but it's been a fun NBA week speaking of him he is not playing right now but the sun's played they did play yes yeah they played the mavericks and you know i like watching that game i was like man like they really miss him at first right then beaumbo rises though yeah yeah yeah yo that first half it's just like

all luca um he hits that buzzer beater after a steal which follows up a layup, it's Luca Magic, you know, the Mavs fans, it's loud, it's fun. And then, like, you know, the Suns just kind of do what the Suns do, where, like, they make great adjustments in the second half. Beyond Bo comes alive. He stops giving up every possible lob that he can. And, you know, Chris Ball just had a great game, so it was fun. What a great segue, because that brings me to my first, would you be shocked? Would you be shocked if the Phoenix Suns cruise to the NBA championship? You know, it's a West, right?

So I would be shocked at cruising, right? But I wouldn't be surprised if they made the finals again. Warriors' sons is the single most intriguing matchup of the season to me. It's kind of like an upgraded version of Warriors Rockets where like you have Chris Paul and then you have like the superstar scorer wing next to him. But instead of a bunch of kind of honestly like aging role players who were looking to win titles, veterans, they have a lot of young guys who have continued to. Like, they just kind of, they kind of keep getting better.

You know, Aitin's a lot better this season. McHale's gotten a lot better. Like, they've found this sort of perfect. We talked about the Hawks last week, right? And the Hawks kind of failed at this where they weren't, they haven't been, or not failed, I guess. Like, you know, we can, we are going to revisit that team. I'm curious to see how they do.

But right now they were really struggling to strike a balance between, development and winning. And the suns kind of hit the sweet spot with that. And the Warriors are similar in a way too, but I think for them, it's more their role players that, you know, kind of have the potential, I guess, to continue to kind of grow in those roles. Whereas, like, with the Suns, I just kind of like,

I don't know, I feel like they're better this year. They're a little bit more versatile. You know, they're a little bit more well-balanced on offense. And I don't know. Like, I can't tell what the temperature is on taking this team seriously. I think that there's a little bit of they got some lucky breaks getting to the finals, but this year have done everything that you could possibly ask them to do to prove that they belong there. Now, when I say Cruz, I don't even know what I mean by Cruz.

It's been a while since we've seen a team like maybe the Durant Warriors who I think just kind of like had locked the league. And it was just like, well, you might as well get into golf because like this is nothing is going to happen as long as these guys stay healthy. And that was the case until, until Durant and Thompson went down again. the Raptors, you know. When I watched the Suns last night, the thing that was so impressive was the single game internal switch flipping where they just decided at a certain point that Donchurch and Brunson were not going to get into their offense. Like, they were not going to be able to get into any kind of set. They weren't going to be able to have like an easy pick and roll at the top of the key to then find shooters. And Bridges and Paul just like made life hell on the on the

Mavericks. Now, you could say that might have to do what the Mavericks could use some more size in playmaking on the perimeter. I don't really, We can get into the Mavs in a second, but I was so impressed by the Suns, like, clearly just knowing exactly when the Dallas was vulnerable and taking over the game. And it wasn't like a blowout by any means, but I thought, especially the turnover battle and the Sun's getting 19 turnovers off of Dallas was incredibly impressive since Dallas has just been running through the league and they were at home and the Suns had been on a road trip. I was just like, wow, this is this is just like an old. old school, like, we're better than you performance in the fourth quarter especially. Yeah, when you combine the sort of like the defensive versatility on that team between Chris Paul, who was, who got, who got Christops Prasengus to take like the wildest turnaround.

Yeah. Banker that, like, you know, just hit the backboard and then ricocheted to the other side of the rim. That's not a match of advantage. I feel like everybody should know at this point, especially if you're KP, right? Like, Chris Paul is going to bump you off your spot in the post. It doesn't matter how big you are, unless you're like Yokic, you know, just like, just don't. Just don't do it. It's not, it's not going to be good.

But, you know, you have that versatility, you know, Mikhail Cam, obviously. And then you have like really just, you know, dynamic. Like, they have a really good coaching staff. And like, they're able to, they're able to just kind of make adjustments on the fly. And that's obviously, you know, it's a cliche. But I think it's like sort of the thing that every team kind of aspires to be able to do, right? Like, that's what you need to be able to do in the playoffs. which is kind of like why I would be really curious to see how seven-game series against

the Warriors goes because the Warriors are kind of, you know, they're built in a similar vein and they're also very dynamic. They can make changes on the fly as well. We've seen them do in the past. Because I think it would be a really great chess match. And, you know, I think the other thing is that they've kind of, they kind of just feel angry, you know? Yeah.

Like they've had the failure. your season, right? Like, they've had the season. It's not, you know, they went all the way to the NBA finals, but I feel like they came out of it pretty angry, but also kind of like, hey, we went to the NBA finals. The only people who didn't think Phoenix going to the finals was like a sweet story was Phoenix. It's not just like a participation trophy for us. We want to go back. And that was through the league, too, you know? Like, I remember at that time, like, there were a lot of people in the league that just felt like the suns got really, really lucky, which was strange to me because I think on the other end of it, like, the really obvious example of a team that got

lucky was the bucks with like, with the, the, the net's injuries and everything. So yeah, I don't know. I, I, I, I disagreed with that at the time. Um, I just feel like they're a playoff team. Like, they are built for it. Oh, for sure. They have, they have incredible shot makers. They're really well balanced. The cool thing about them going to the finals is like, it actually winds up being what, like, say, a Utah, who I think we're going to talk about later in two, hasn't gotten a chance to do to prove that they're not just a regular season team. Like Phoenix getting into the finals, whether it was some lucky breaks or whether it was because they actually just took care of anybody, all competitors.

They had like this experience of going up and playing in front of like hostile crowds in late into an NBA finals. And they take that with them and they seem this is one of the few teams in the league that so far, even without Aiton, has seemed like kind of unperturbed by all the circumstances they're affecting other teams. The COVID absences, any debilitating injuries that knock them out for a period of time. And obviously, the Warriors are kind of struggling without Draymond right now. So it's just kind of been fascinating.

It's like, it's almost like don't spook the pitcher when he's throwing a no-hitter. Like, I don't even want to talk about injuries with the Suns because I just, for Chris Paul's sake, want his hamstrings to hold up. But right now it's just like, man, I just expect them to win every game they play. Yeah, that fourth quarter against Luca, it was kind of a perfect example of that. Like, he'd been destroying them all game. and then, you know, the last five minutes or so, like, he didn't, he, he didn't really take any shots. Like, they took him completely out of the offense.

And, you know, Dallas has some issues that they need to figure out. But, you know, it feels like they have the defensive personnel that eventually they can deal with almost any problem. Any problem outside of Yanis onto Dekumpo, really. Because they also, like, you know, Kurt Curry is a guy that they've done a pretty good job on too. So, yeah, I don't know. I think, I think this guy is kind of the limit for them. So you would not be shocked at all there. currently 35 and 9. They're 18 and 4 on the road, which I really like. And they have the best

net running in the league. I mean, they are putting up the numbers to prove the talk. Another factor in last night's game, you know, he's just recently kind of gotten hot after some absences with, was the ankle and COVID is Luca, you know, and I felt, I was really excited. I hadn't watched Luca in a minute. And I know that he's been on a heater recently. There is like a collective, I think, desire in the NBA community to see this guy become like the next face of the league, you know, for a variety of reasons. How shocked would you be if Luca Dantache lifts the NBA MVP trophy at the end of the year? I really like this one. So yeah, the Mavs are nine and two since he's been back. And he's been incredible. Like he's, he's, he's like you

said, he's been on a heater. There was last night before they kind of shut him down, 41 against Toronto, multiple triple doubles. I think Luca is also just like, he's kind of, he's kind of, he's kind of the type of guy where he hasn't played in a while. I think he's going to be really excited to get out there too. Like it feels like he's having a lot of fun. Um, and he's always having a lot of fun, which is, you know, one of the reasons why I think there's like this, this push to make him one of the faces, right? Like, I think him, him in a mainstream audience, uh, really, really, you know, that'll be fun, you know, that would be fun. So I can see, I could see the, the narrative starting to be pushed. Have you see it starting to be pushed? It's weird because like,

obviously I'm coming from a very specific bubble where the Embed MVP talk is very strong. So if you look at my timeline, this is like a race of one person. But I think you can make really strong like analytics and I test arguments for Yokic, even though the nuggets are struggling. It's like they're still in the playoff race with literally like one player. You know, like he's carrying this team to fifth in the west. And that's no joke when you look at like some of the teams that are below Denver. casual 49 point triple double.

Yeah, I mean, like on a nightly basis is, I mean, I think Yokic is probably the best player in the league right now considering what he's got around him. But I honestly think if they keep going the way they are, like, there needs to be probably like some serious consideration of Chris Paul because of like almost like a sustained campaign of two seasons, an NBA finals visit and what they're doing this year. Even though there's no like, I don't think you can make a statistical argument for it, I think you could make like an impact argument for it. I love that we're doing like the Chris Paul made the Sun sing again.

I love it. Like we're right back there. He's like, yeah, he actually, he's kind of, I think he's creeping up on some people's MVP ladders for sure. But I think you're right.

I think there is something to be said of like that level of impact that goes beyond what you see on the core, especially with the success of the sons. And like you said, like the way that they have been able to kind of just skirt some of the issues that have plagued other teams this year. You know, they have, they have obviously like the Sarver investigation is going on. And they've kind of,

been able to weather that. They were able to weather like, you know, like COVID last year and still kind of became like a pretty connected team. I think you, you definitely, you make a point there, but I was thinking about this because like, I don't know, I definitely want to give Chris Paulus flowers. Like, that's been kind of the season that I'm having. But it's hard. Like, that team is so well balanced. And he's not the only player that does like the, you know, the workmen everyday, you know, things that are required to keep the ship running, right? Like, we're, you know, sailing or whatever. but he's definitely a big part of that. And image-wise, like, he is kind of, you know, because of who he was in the past,

kind of taken over on that and gotten most of the credit. But, you know, like, there's obviously, you know, Monty's gotten a ton of credit to their coaching staff. Boak as well. I mean, like, he's not dissimilar to CP3 and habits and discipline and wanting things to, you know, kind of stay in order. And, yeah, I don't know. I think that Paul's impact on that team is, you know, immeasurable. But at the same time, they have so many great players that.

it's tough for me to kind of give him the MVP, especially when, like, you know, I think, I think books probably the best player on that team. So which way are you leaning then? With MVP? With MVP? Yeah, with MVP in general, but like... Right now I've got, I've got Yokch number one. I think just like the way that he plays and the amount of injuries that they've had, this kind of goes back to last year. It's the same story of what I thought he should have won last year. It's just that he can, he has a style of play on offense that can adapt to any situation and can kind of like, allow other players to plug and play a lot more easily. It's like, I don't know, it's like, is it like a reverse ewing theory?

Like, where as long as Yokic is there, anybody else who comes, anyone else? Like, Will Barton, like, can kind of spell Michael Porter Jr. who could kind of spell Jamal Murray, although not really. But, you know, Jamal was the one, like, obviously they really missed Jamal. And they, and, but at the end of the day, like, I think it's just that ability to keep the same system in order as well that makes it so much easier for for the nuggets as well like we're going to talk about the lakers a little bit later but one thing that i was seeing about them is just like the volatility of building around a player like russell westbrook just just really you know

it kind of hamstrings your decision making because you have to make predictions about who and what he'll be in the future and like you just never really have to do that with yokage right like he is kind of consistently always going to you know he's always going to space the floor he's always going to be good for like, you know, getting double digit assists, finding open cutters, like, you know, creating layups and stuff like that in and of itself to me, especially with like the amount of turnover of the last two years, just makes him even more valuable than usual, I guess. Can I just ask you a like a slightly trolley question though? Absolutely.

Let's say like the nuggets get the six seed or maybe the seven and they lose in the first round. What differentiates Yokic's season from the Westbrook MVP season that everybody seems to regret? You know what? I would say expectations probably. Sure. And maybe expectations have kind of changed, like expectations changed for the nuggets multiple times because of injury. So I think it would be hard to look at kind of, you know, their preseason expectations. But at the same time, I think like when with all of the injuries that they've had, like I don't think anybody really expected them to even.

even stay afloat a lot of the times, and they have. Whereas that Westbrook season, they either, I don't remember this now, but they either ended up winning or ended up tied with what Vegas had them as. Oh, really? Okay. They were, yeah, like, we kind of created this false narrative that this team was never supposed to make the playoffs after KD left. They were a championship contender. They took the Warriors to seven games, you know, like they, they were a really good team. And I, and I think, I don't think he made them better also. That is probably the biggest difference, right? Like, Yokic doesn't even need to touch the ball that much to make his teammates better.

And I think that's also really valuable in an NBA where I think, you know, just being able to relinquish the ball and let other players touch it is really valuable. I think that's what makes Steph so valuable too because you just need to have a lot of talent now to win championships. And you need to find a way to make it all fit together. and like Yokic is like you know he's like a mold of clay that also just like shits gold everywhere you know and it's going to be good right if there was a movie of Yokic I hope he's a mold of clay that shits gold is the is the poster quote speaking of making things fit together this is something that's been plaguing Daryl Morey for the last couple of months obviously and he just came out and also you yeah and me and he's been he's been Daryl came out this week and did one of his it's been a while but one of his periodic state of unions about the Sixers, but largely Ben Simmons and the state of the trade market.

He talked to 97.5, a real station in Philadelphia, and it was a typically expansive yet cryptic interview. Like, Darrell will give these very long answers. And then at the end, you're just kind of like, so you don't know or you're not going to say. So I'll just give you two of the main quotes that I thought were of note. And I'll ask you. Before you do, I love that radio, like local radio has just become more his like number one form of communication. It's his preferred platform. This is quoting Daryl. If you trade one of these great players for multiple players,

and I think that he's referring to this idea of, you know, Ben Simmons for, you know, three pretty good players rather than a top 30 player. So if you trade one of these great players for multiple players, it does not move your championship odds enough to make a difference. It might take us from where we're at now to a little bit better, but it's very slightly better. And we want to, for Joel, we have to make sure we get this right and that we move ourselves into a higher tier of ability to win the championship

and not just nudge ourselves from having the seventh best chance to maybe the sixth best chance in the league. So I thought that that was a really like clear statement of intent of principles and of like the tenets of like what he's trying to follow when he goes through the process of looking for a Ben Simmons and possibly a Tobias Harris destination since that has also come up. Yeah. And then he says the opposite thing. The second quote, which I think was I just is notable is I 100% believe he, meaning Ben Simmons can play for us again, and he'd be literally almost the perfect player we could have

to pair with Joel and Bid. It doesn't even take that difficult a look to say our defense goes from the best in the league to average. That's a massive part of the game, and Joel and Ben together always put together an elite defense. That is so important for playoff basketball. Our rebounding has gone from 10th to near the bottom of the league. The only difference between last year's team,

and this one is Ben Simmons. You know, let's keep pumping that lineup data that Joel Simmons, two men, that starting lineup, offensive rating, defensive rating, let's go, let's go, Daryl, let's play the hits, I love it. So, would you be shocked if Ben Simmons wears a Sixers uniform in a game this season? No, no, I wouldn't. So I actually thought, I thought the quote that you were going to say is the other thing he said.

And I think this was also too, I read it. Yeah, this is all in the 97.5. Okay. I don't know if this is, but I think it is. But he said, I do think with how great Joelle is, our line has moved. down a little bit because Joelle has lifted us into contention by his sheer will of greatness this year, which, by the way, like, way to sneak in some MVP peddling for your guy, really smart. Then he says, that does push the number of deals that we would do more likely if that makes

any sense. And I think that was important because we've talked about this before too, but like when you talk about the math of this, like he's always kind of said what he said, what you quoted him is saying where he's not going to make a move that doesn't move the needle for championship contention. That's always been his thing. He wants superstars. He wants stars. He wants superstars, right? Like, that's the other side of it is, like, how can you afford to waste Joel's Prime? Like, there's a mathematical equation of that, too, where, like, a great player, you know, you don't know how many years that they're going to have of being completely at their peak. So it's interesting. I feel like it's strange that all of the GMs are kind of just saying

what's on their mind. Like we talked about Travis Schlink last week. And it makes things a little bit more confusing because this is completely logical. But at the same time, I just can't believe anything that is said publicly. So it makes it a little tough. I do feel like NBA GMs are getting prolonged exposure

to podcasting. And it's making them like more candid. Even though they're not necessarily giving these statements on pods, I feel like they just like sit there and they're like listening to like Rogan or something. And they're like, I can't I got to be honest. I got to make some stuff happen on the blogs, man. Let's do it. I love that. Yeah, it's like David Griffin when he, like, he spent, he spent a couple years in

the media, and he gets to the pelicans, and he just starts saying too many things. Like, yo, wrong Mike. Wrong Mike. Dude. So I think with Simmons playing right now is actually the perfect sweet spot for him to play. I think that they would have to get past the trade deadline. I think that they would they would have to be like see we tried look like he has not made a public statement it's come through rich it's come through shams through rich that's about the extent of what we know about where Ben Simmons's head is at right now in his interview morey was like we've talked and we've even made some had some conversations directly with Ben he's no closer to playing than he was when he made this decision but like the fact that we're talking is a foundation for talking so it was

it was like there's some light at the end of the tunnel but it's also pretty dark once the trade deadline passes and if if darrell let's say is just bringing these deals then saying like look I'm not going to trade you for Timberwolves bench players you know what I mean or whatever it is and once he kind of keeps bringing these deals forward if in fact he's doing that maybe at the after the all-star break Ben Simmons has like a change of heart or is like I need to redeem some value or like you know I'm not going to take an entire year of my career off or I simply want to get paid or whatever, all of those things that come into play, and he comes back. Whether he comes back and he's like the same player he was last year for better or force, I don't know. He just got

engaged a little while ago. He's already got his ring. I think Simmons is probably a little less concerned with playing. Did you just say he just got his ring? Yeah, yeah. He just, he's about to hoist the real Larry O'Brien. That's love. Yeah, okay. But I would like to kind of like speak directly to both parties here because I think we're all kind of we're all a little bit sick of this right right this is a really good sweet spot for ben Simmons to play some games there's I think nine or ten games until the trade deadline and right now if he plays like I think that's a long enough time for him to get back into rhythm February 8 they play the sons that'd be like the last game before the trade deadline I say what Simmons should do is

he should suit up for like for those nine games prior and he should say hey look I'm here I'm upping my trade value February 8th that morning started acting really weird start acting super weird just like put the pressure on like I don't know if I'm going to play today and then just maybe maybe ghost maybe ghost and just see what kind of pressure that puts on Philly but it also helps Philly too because once he once he shows he can play like you know the the value they can get on some of these offers is actually pretty close. And you also only have to have him play for like nine games. Like, you know, if you're thinking about your, like your culture and winning a championship,

like you don't have to drag, like, if he plays after the trade deadline, and maybe if he wants to, like, if it turns into a thing where he stays, then great, right? Like, if he comes back and they figure things out, nobody knows how it's going to happen. Assuming that doesn't happen, I think right now, just like, suck it up and play, come back. everybody act like we're best friends. It's a good time. It's a good time. And it's 19 days until the deadline, like two weeks.

That's not too long. And honestly, like, I think it could kind of be like one of those things where like they haven't actually seen each other for so long. Like, Joelle and Ben could, like, that's long enough for them to actually kind of like playing together again, but like not too long that they're like, oh, yeah, I remember why I didn't like this, you know? This one I'm trying to figure out exactly how I want to phrase it. So let me work on it on the fly.

But it's essentially whether or not, like, if we're calling it away Kyrie, you know, capital A, like this version of him that only plays in away games, would you be shocked if away Kyrie is not enough for the netts to win the conference? Even with Durant coming back. If Durant's back, then I think you can get away with having Kyrie for three or four games in a series depending on if they have home court advantage. Do you think they can beat the Bucs that way? If they have Kyrie for those games, yeah.

I think they're, when healthy, in that series too, when the nets were healthy, they were a better team than the bucks. That said, I think the bucks are better this year too. So, you know, I don't, like, I still think it'd be a very close series. But that gives them a little bit of an edge because those guys actually fit together too, right? Like, they don't necessarily need to do, like, the Lakers thing of, like, needing to get reps so they can figure out how these guys who don't space the floor can fit together. Like, the nets are seamless, you know?

They kind of just, they can kind of just play five out and go in transition and just kind of have fun together, honestly, when they are all playing together. So I think it could, but I don't know. Like, it would be, it would still be tough, right? Like, we've never seen anything like this happen. And I also, like, it kind of brings up this question I wanted to ask you, too. Like, if you're, if you're the Nets, what do you prefer in a series? Do you want one extra game of Kyrie or do you want one extra game at home?

What's your answer? I think it's Kyrie. Yeah, right? I don't really get the impression that it's like Fortress Barkley's and like we are unbeatable while we're in Brooklyn. Right. Like it kind of adds like a chill aspect to the rest of the regular season for them too. Like they definitely do need to like figure out a lot of stuff because of their injuries. Like they don't really like their role player rotation around the big three is kind of an issue.

And then like it's erratic. Yeah. Yeah. Now Paul Millsap is, you know, they've kind of mutually agreed to find a role that allows him to contribute more. So, you know, just another another one of like the many kind of defender role player rollers at they have is uh is going to be out so i have questions but i would not be shocked i think it's i think it be pretty 50 50 i also kind of wonder too as NBA games start to matter more a little bit down the stretch here and maybe if you know we get like a more vibrant live atmosphere in certain places

like whether or not it gets a little bit more uh antagonistic towards kairi in opposing gyms i don't know if you saw like they were fucking with him and cleveland and he got a little bit defensive I mean, he was, I actually thought what he said was pretty funny where some guys were just like, oh, don't you need LeBron? Like, you need LeBron. And, like, he just turned to the guy and was just like, I won you a championship and you're not fucking grateful, you know? Like, and he has a point, you know, but the thing is, is that I do wonder whether or not, like, it's just going to get, like, a little bit.

As you get into the playoffs and as you get into, like, the close of the season, like, opposing arenas being the only experience Kyrie has of basketball might be, like, a little bit antagonistic. Yeah, that's true. That's so true. That could be fun for Kyrie as well. I have to say, I prefer Kyle Kuzma's response to Cavs fans when they told him, like, you only won a title because of LeBron. He's on the, like, this was this year, they were playing the Wizards. He just turned around. He was like, pot kettle, guys. He was basically just like, yeah, me, you too. But yeah, I mean, he's the single most polarizing

player in the NBA. I don't think it's actually particularly close. Yeah, it could get, it could get that way. I think Kyrie seems to like that, though. I don't think it's something that he would particularly mind. Although I'm sure he would love to play against a home crowd and everything. I think everybody would. But I think like Kyrie might be the type of guy that could, you know, do you think it could kind of give him fuel? Do you think like that sustained sort of like never playing at home feeling? If he was going to change his mind about honestly getting vaccinated, I think he would have done it when Durant got hurt and would have been like this. We obviously need some help and I will change my mind. I think he's not going to change his mind. So this is

going to be the way it is until vaccine mandates are repealed. And I don't think that that's going to happen in a lot of the cities that he's in New York City, frankly. They haven't done it yet. So we can stay in the east. And I wanted to ask you a question that was one of the bummers of the week, which is that Lonzo is going to miss, I believe, four to six weeks with surgery on his slightly torn meniscus. I think for as much as DeRosen is clearly an all-star and is like on the outside looking in of MVP talk. Lonzo has been maybe the most essential bowl. Like, I think he just makes that whole thing work in a really profound way, both in his defense and his playmaking. He is one of my favorite passers of the ball. I just find that even when it's not the

flashy pass, it's the pass that hits the shooter like in stride, right in his breadbasket, right where he needs it. You know what I mean? Like the passing he has and the way he finds guys who are open and even has that old school point guard of like, let me get this guy going, let me get this guy going, like, making sure everybody eats. I don't think that they're going to fall apart by it in any means, but I was curious whether you thought Lonzo's injury dragged the Bulls down, and would you be shocked if they got dragged all the way down into the plane? Yeah, I mean, I agree with you about his impact.

The thing about the East is that the first place is not that far from seventh place right now. Yeah, yeah. Right, like, right now the Wizards at 8th are only six games back from the Bulls. But at the same time, like, that's still six games. And I think the Bulls are still a playoff team without Lonzo, right? Sure. Oh, I think they're great. Yeah.

I think it would be a pretty steep fall. And also, their strength of schedule isn't too tough when he's out too. So I think he can kind of save him a little bit as well. But I think you're right, though. Like, you know, if we want to talk about Lonzo's impact on the team, it's just like, you know, they run in transition. They are incredibly well balanced. Their perimeter defense is really good. that's the reason that they've been able to stay afloats,

but I think a lot of people thought that their defense would be a lot worse than it is. But you had, you know, Caruso, who's also, he's been out, and Lonzo is kind of like the head of the snake preventing just like the regular kind of, you know, just the penetration that, you know, I think most defenses are kind of just, that is how they play defense. They assume penetration will happen. They go from there. And I think with the bulls, they kind of rely on Lonzo,

and Caruso and they get some steals and they also just like have the rest of their guys play pretty conservative and that a lot like the defense at the top is what allows them to do that so I think I'm really like I'm I'm curious to see what their defense looks like without him like that that does concern me but it doesn't concern me enough to think that they're going to go from like first to eighth by any means like this team still has like they're they're going to have to get some guys back but like they just have so much scoring and I think now we'll kind of maybe we'll now we'll see that sort of like floundering like has to they have to be hot every night type of team to score but like you've got enough talent on that team that like they'll stay aflo I think for that that

period of time I would be shocked if this drags them into the play and because I think that they've weathered absences throughout the season this is one of the teams that's had the most like up and down roster stuff with COVID with injuries they lost Pat Williams obviously they've without Caruso for a while I think that they're used to the next man up stuff you know to the extent that you believe it. Is the next man up like on the level of Lonzo? No, but I think that they'll be able to patch it together until he comes back. It's just so he comes back and he's kind of in the same zone that he was for the first half of the season because it's been such a thrill to watch him. Yeah, I wouldn't be pissed at more like, you know, Giovante Green as well, right? Like, it's,

for sure. Let me burn through a couple more of these. Would you be shocked if the Lakers don't make the playoffs? Lakers are in eighth currently. They're 22 and 23. They're 5 and 5 in their last 10. everybody's everybody knows we're dealing with right now we and and you know like i i thought that the pacers beating the warriors last night was actually like good for the lakers but it was still like that lakers pacer's game i thought was almost i really did think that that vogle was going to get fired after that you know or that they were going to trade russ for like one bitcoin yeah i mean i think you know changes seem to be you know coming i would still be pretty surprised if they didn't make the playoffs. Yeah, Anthony Davis is coming back.

Vogel also, you know, like in the midst of all these rumors, finally kind of did the thing of benching Russell Westbrook. Now, I'd be curious to see where things go from here. There's a lot of people sort of pushing him to kind of, you know, go the LeBron route, the Carmelo route, and make some change. Actually, KOC had a great video about that this morning for The Void. He kind of did the Lakers deep dive, so we don't have to get into all of like the logistics. but I think, you know, it's kind of either Westbrook's going to have to come off the bench. The big three, I feel like kind of need to be staggered around shooters, like two of those guys and three shooters could work.

And the closer Vogel gets to that, like I think the better for, you know, his job security, obviously. But I don't know, so much of it is really just like, like I said earlier, Russ's volatility. Like, will he come off the bench? Or like, will he take a reduced minutes? Will he stop shooting threes? Like, will he kind of do like the thing he did? Around this time, with Houston, actually, of just becoming a driver and stuff.

Like, he has shown the willingness to adjust in that moment, then he kind of reverted back. So he is just such a big question mark. And then I think the thing becomes, like, if Westbrook doesn't change, then he has one of the more untradable contracts. And it's just, it's easier to get rid of a coach than it is to get rid of the player, right? That's ultimately. My other question about the Lakers is would you be shocked if Frank Vogel was still coaching the Lakers at the end of the season? It's not out of the question for LeBron teams to change horses midstream. And the only thing I would say is that A, Vogel won a championship with the Lakers, so there might be some sort of deference towards him, at least letting him finish out the season. And B, I don't know who comes in that does a better job than Frank Vogel.

I don't know that there's like an obvious fix that a new coach with a different system. like I don't even know and also to be completely frank I don't know that you could pry Kenny Ackinson from like the Warriors bench to give one example of a coach that could be a candidate like what if Kenny Ackinson's like I want to finish out this season with Golden State and win a NBA title yeah he's already had the experience with the nets like yeah like do you think he really wants to go into this cauldron of shit with the lakers and be like great you know like I'm overseeing lebrons twilight and this rust meltdown when I could be playing like sitting next to steve cur and helping like Drayman Clay, Steph, Cumbinga, you know, and Andrew Wiggins won in title.

Yeah, but the thing is somebody will, right? Like, there's like, there's only 30 of those jobs. Like, that's kind of the thing with it, right? Yeah, it's not a bad one. It's the Lakers. Like, it doesn't open very often. Yeah, it's a Bron. You still have like a, you still have a shot at a title, right?

So I think like, you know, they would have. But I do, I do think, yeah, there would be certain coaches that I think might be wary. But at the same time, it's like, you know, it's not like the Lakers, like, through all of this have been like a dramatic disaster or anything off the court. Like, not as of late. right like the problems have been coming on the court but you know LeBron kind of came out was was pretty supportive of Vogel and that he just didn't like he felt as like you know he just didn't want to answer the questions about his job

security in a way that was you know he seemed a little angry he seemed a little defiant right he seemed a little like I'm not you know you're not going to get me to do that essentially and maybe that was just his his read but you know I think I think it's still a pretty pretty attractive job but like you said man like there are some things that Vogel could definitely do better, right? Like, I think he's too in love with having, you know, size down low, size over spacing especially, but he's changed that. You know, we got LeBron at center. He's, he's now benched Westbrook. Like, he's trying stuff. And then, like, like, Lakers have had so much turnover this year, like, played a bunch of different lineups. So, I mean, I don't know.

As long as he still has a locker room, which is not, like, not nothing, by the way. Like, that's the other thing you have to consider. If you get rid of Vogel, you got to figure out somebody who can come in and actually, you know, command that locker room in the midst of, like, what, it's not turmoil yet, but it's kind of, like, near turmoil. And it's certainly basketball turmoil in a certain way. But I don't know that you can just, like, find, like, who would you, if the Lakers were to, were to get rid of Vogel, like, honestly, first of all, I don't even think Kenny Atkinson would be a good choice for that job. Like, who do you think would, would be the person to hire? I have no idea. There's the usual suspects. A lot of

them or like kind of media adjacent like mark jackson or jeff and gundee or somebody like that but i i don't know who a quick fix is here like i can't imagine who would be like i'm the steady hand that can come in and fix this all right so yeah i think vogue probably finishes out this season and i think the lakers do at least make into a play in game i mean once with davis back you would just have to assume that that like that alone kind of like writes the ship but it's it would also require a lot of like pretty bad Western Conference teams to get a lot better in the second half of the season to pull the Lakers out of it. Let's end with this last one on the Western Conference. Would you be shocked if this is the Jazz's year? So would you be shocked if this was Utah's year to kind of shake

off the playoff motion sickness and actually find themselves either in a conference finals or even an NBA finals? Yeah, the Jazz are in like this really weird moment right now. You know, they've been compared to the bucks of last year by, you know, by a lot of smart basketball people. I think Charks wrote something about that on the ringer. You know, JJ Reddick has been saying it on his pod. And I think it's a pretty good comparison in some ways in that, like, you know, the narrative side of it where like this is a team that flamed out last year and now as a result we're going to completely ignore them.

And the fact that they only made like kind of subtle changes and they believe that, I mean, actually like that's not really fair to the season that the offseason that the books had to get those guys. but we were appropriately crediting for them for how different they were from the season before, even in that regular season. You know, I think we kind of just ignored it. And I think that's kind of happening with them to an extent, but they still have some of the same problems as last year.

Like, I still think that they could really use, like, that wing defender. And maybe they can make some stuff happen at the deadline. I'm sure they'll certainly be, like, involved, right? Like, that'll be a big part of it. Like, do you get in on, like, the Jeremy Grant thing? Is there, is there, is there, like, there's definitely a trade market for, for Jeremy Grant. I don't know that, I don't know that there's like a seller, though, really necessarily. So I'm really curious about them. And I, because like, I actually just don't really know what to make of them right now. Because right now also like, you know, did you see kind of like the back and forth between Mitchell and Gobert. I did, but for our listeners, explain it. So Gobert did an interview where he talked about, I actually think what he said was reasonably innocuous. Does Rudy Gobert have podcast? podcast brain too. Everybody is podcast brain. Everyone's just saying, you know what? Like I think we're all kind of in a moment of we just say things. And I think there's a little less like, you know, like people aren't really trying to be, trying to be perfect anymore. Outwardly in, in public, which is actually just probably a good thing. But anyway, so Gobert was doing this interview. And he was talking about how the jazz aren't really like on the Warriors and Sun's level in terms of their defensive concerns.

consistency and their habits. I would argue he's right. You know, it's why this team inspires so many questions, but the thing that got kind of like blown up was that he complimented Booker's defensive intensity, which I guess like to people felt like a shot at Donovan Mitchell, which seems like a stretch until Donovan's asked about it. And he's basically just like stone face and like, yeah, I guess, you know, we all, we all want to get, make this team better. I guess this is his way. way of doing it. It wasn't like he was like guys come on. Like he was he was kind of on the other side of it just being like oh okay oh that's cool. Exactly exactly exactly which kind of like it's like

okay all right then that means that there's probably something there then which I mean we know that there's something there from from years but so at this point would you be shocked if they if I told you the jazz are going to the finals? Would I be shocked? This is the only question that I put out there so I didn't even actually think about whether I think I asked it because I just don't know you're I'll tell you. I would. I would be. Yeah, I would be.

I would be. And I wouldn't be surprised if they, with all the changes that have been made in the front office with Danny Aange coming in. Oh, yeah. I wouldn't be shocked if this also led to some sort of restructuring of that team, whether that's Quinn Snyder, cough, cough, Lakers, or whether that's breaking up the Donovan Rudy duo or whether there's other guys around the periphery of those guys that they try to move in and out. But I don't think that Danny Aange came in to just like kind of watch the shop. He came in to probably like make them a little bit more follow.

Yeah, yeah. That's a good point. Dealer Danny. It's funny actually to see the jazz and so many more trade rumors now that connection. Exactly. Because Danny Eng is original podcast brain. You truly is. Yes. We can wrap it up there.

For CIRIT, this is Chris. We were produced by Chris Sutton. Thanks for listening to The Answer. We'll be back next Friday. You can listen to tons of NBA stuff. On the Ringer NBA show, on Bill's show, on Rissolo's show, on mismatch feed. Got you covered all week. And we will see you next Friday.