The Ringer NBA Show - Young Core Rankings, Part 1. Plus, the Knicks are Cup Champs. | Group Chat

Episode Date: December 17, 2025

Justin, Rob and J. Kyle Mann give their instant reactions to the Knicks winning the NBA Cup. Then over two parts, the guys are ranking the young cores of the NBA 30-1. In Part 1, they’re ranking and discussing teams ranked 30-16. (00:00) Intro (1:28) NBA Cup (22:39) Clippers(27:09) Knicks(30:32) Lakers(41:45) Kings(47:15) Celtics(51:11) Bucks(55:14) Pacers (1:10:17) Warriors(1:15:44) Heat(1:22:45) Blazers(1:32:28) Suns(1:39:06) Nets(1:48:50) Grizzlies(1:54:17) Bulls Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and J. Kyle Mann Audio Producer: Isaiah Blakely Video Producer: Victoria Valencia Additional Production Support: John Richter Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Social: Isaiah Blakely and Keith Fujimoto The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠ ⁠⁠www.rg-help.com⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Shopping. Streaming. Celebrating. It’s on Prime. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Verrier and joining me here in lovely Los Angeles, Rob Mahoney, Jay Kyle, man. We are here to talk about some young cores. We did two parts, two robust episodes. Yeah. Totaling probably more than five hours going through number one, or number 30 to number one,

of the best collection of young players in the entire NBA. We also did some ranking of the best blue ship prospects. see part one of that and listen to it after we get through this little spiel here. And then part two will go up on Thursday. But first and foremost, guys, we got to talk about how the old's triumphed in the NBA Cup. Us? No. Well, I guess us to a certain extent because we had some fun together. We triumph. We ate. You know, I know you're very sensitive about heavy meals before you podcast. So I think in that sense, you triumph tonight, J.V. That's proof that you're old. You know, the young man's game is I'm just going to eat whatever before I go to play.

I mean, the flophil was like, you know, it's fried, but it's still light. I feel light on my toes. Sure. I'm ready to podcast. It was an airy falafel. Yeah, I'd say so. Justin Verrier, powered by chickpeas. Yeah.

That's what they say. Powered by something, might as well be chickpeas. Yeah. But dare I say that the third NBA Cup final was the best. I think so. Yeah. I mean, we got a great matchup, Nick Spurs. And frankly, from the Knicks perspective, like kind of a blueprint for how they could win the East,

to be honest with you. Like, this is the exact sort of. combination of size and savvy and Jalen Brunson like attracting a ton of attention all these supporting scores they just have a lot to work with and a team like the spurs has a lot to work with too but they're figuring so much out in real time that the Knicks have already figured out through multiple playoff runs and so you could really I just think the experience different like really differentiated them in this game and of course just the size I mean the Knicks looked huge and that's with cat being injured for part of this game yeah that's funny because you look at the guys that

well, I'll start with what you were talking about. I think the process was the most obvious glaring thing that was, and I don't mean, Joel and Bede, I mean, the fact, the way that the NICs were going about their business, granted, as you get a little older, luckily, if you're lucky, you start to know who you are a little bit better for some people that involves therapy or just being together with great teammates like the NICs, which is a form of therapy, I guess, in a way. I think so. But I think down the stretch, kind of something that really jumped out to me was the fact that

you mentioned the diversion using your primary, your primary source of score as a diversion that can kind of have this ripple effect and we'll get more into this in detail, I know, but it was a little, you could just kind of see that the spurs weren't as sure about that, about how to go about that process, and the Knicks just were, they're really effective on it.

Yeah, it's funny because earlier in the game, we were remarking about kind of the juice that collectively the Spurs all had, especially in contrast to the Knicks. We were much more girthy and methodical, is how I would describe them. The first half was like a home run derby for the Spurs. It was like dunk, dunk, layup, dunk, just all in transition, all easy.

And then that changed really quickly. Yeah, and the bench looked particularly spry in contrast to the next. We're like kind of piecing this together, especially with Hart going into the starting lineup. And it's such an advantage to be able to throw out Fox and Harper as a combination to run your second unit. We're talking about a guy who's been at the forefront of the league and a guy who might be there pretty soon. We'll talk about that in the second episode of our Yoncore rankings. But it really just flipped to the point where like Clarkson hitting a couple big threes late. down the stretch.

And Tyler Kola coming in and making a ton of plays, like really swung this game for the Knicks. Tyler Koeck did it really well. I'm about to tell you in our young corps ranking, why I don't believe in Tyler Kolic. I mean, he preemptively shut me up somehow, didn't even hear what I had to say and did it. Inarguable that he had an effect on this game

with the energy, with all those connective plays. Also Mitchell Robinson, 10 offensive rebounds. Insane. And the spurs, we should say, are usually a very good defensive rebounding team. Victor Webbenyama is not playing his full. allotment of minutes, that changes the dynamics a little bit, but also the Knicks are just a particular imposition in that way. And so if they have control of the game and they did,

and they're making all these small plays on the margins, and they did, and also they're getting all these second chances because of Mitch and OG and Kat when he was out there, I just think that's a little too much for a Spurs team that over the back half of this game just felt like they were reacting to things. They weren't really dictating anything, to be honest with you. The Ringer NBA show is presented by Fandall. Fandall, Fandall's got it all. Same game parlay, quick bets for jumping in live in your way so you could build the bet that fits your play. Plus, don't miss out on holiday offers and surprises all month long. Download the Fandul app or head to fandle.com slash ringer MBA to get started.

21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus in present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem, call 1800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. Call 1887-8-8-8-8-9-777-7 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. You could really feel the tide turn. I wrote it down at 4-0. Well, let's see, when the Knicks went up 3 at 1020 in the fourth quarter, you could kind of-time of death. You could kind of sense, well, the game shifted where you could sense that, you know, early in the game, it was like Castle. I was texting somebody. I was like, Castle was kind of the perimeter alpha in the first like 25, 30 minutes of the game. Yeah. Really, really, granted, he wasn't super efficient. He was, you know, we'll get into

the efficiency of the scores, but five for 15. They wasted a really great Dylan Harper shooting. night that was that was that was tough but the game i felt like the nicks kind of forced them into the deep end a little bit and they were like all right buddy show us you can paddle those feet and the nicks just have a more effective and you know forcing not only a young team to guard deep into the clock which is which is tough but then also forcing them to reset and guard again um and a lot of those just kind of like broken plays it just kind of accumulated it was you know clarkson hit one off of like a loose ball scrambling for the rebound kick it to him it just seemed like it was a lot of plays like that that kind of added up to their demise.

So we talked the other day about how much of an impact Wemby had in limited minutes against the thunder. Today's game, like I was actually startled by his line because it looks pretty good on paper, but he hit a couple big jumpers and key moments where the shot just looked very good, but ultimately pretty muted performance. How much do you think that's the minutes and just kind of like trying to balance all of that versus like dealing with the heft of the Knicks? Because it seems like at times, like they were really getting up under him. And those are a lot of big boys that he contend with. I thought he played really well for a while.

And then after that stretch where he was basically alternating threes and lob dunks, and then he hit like a dirk, kind of like elbow midranger that was really sweet. He just started like hunting for the dagger. You know, he's just kind of like trying to hit huge shots and not trying to hit good shots, or at least create good shots. And so I think he was as guilty of anyone as in terms of like not settling into some kind of process like you were talking about, Kyle. It's like they were just kind of chasing stuff.

and you can't do that in a game like this. You have to settle down. You have to find your bearings. And Dearen Fox, I thought he had a really like a real mixed bag of a game too in this way where he's supposed to be the steady hand. And he looked like just as much of a chicken with his head cut off as Castle did at times or Wemby did at times where they're just kind of going after what's right in front of them. Yeah, we didn't get a great chance to see Fox be super methodical.

But I think it's important to note that as young as this team is, the older components within this young team have also just not spent a ton of time playing together. I mean, still, Fox and Wimby have only played 140 minutes together so far. So not a ton. And I just thought that I wanted to pose this to you guys. I kind of feel like Wimby, there's this thing that happens whenever a player does something great, like a player of Wimby's body type does something amazing. And you're just like, I can't believe somebody of that shape and size could do that. And we get so wowed and kind of intoxicated by it. And you could tell that Wimby does too, that he kind of goes back to it. It kind of causes this.

tradeoff that can end up being positive. Like, remember when Janus would hit threes? I always had this joke that like, everybody would be like, oh, my God, he's making threes. If I were like the opposing head coach, I would secretly do the Ron Swanson fistpump. Because when Wimby gets lured into settling for those, I just feel like it causes him to go further out from what he does effectively. I just can't help but think that if they can operate somehow with him at the slot

and get him attacking one-on-one matchups and then have him pass out of that, It just seems like the more, I don't, it feels like he needs to settle into something that is more effective for him because either they're deferring too much or they just don't know how to all like feed off of each other. It's just not quite straightened out the way it is for the next. I want to give the Knicks credit for that too because I think some of what they did defensively, especially in the late third quarter into the fourth, was blow up a lot of that connective tissue. The kind of the opportunities where Wimby was getting like a little duck in where he would draw a foul. All of a sudden, Tyler Kolek like cut him off in transition. they never get Wemby the ball, they have to pull it out, they have to reset. There were a lot of plays like that where normally you would see Wemby get to an advantageous

spot, and instead he's circling out to three, he's taking those shots that he's kind of been subtly reinforced to take because he hit two of them, and then all of a sudden they're just falling into a really weird rhythm. Yeah, he got off to a fast start this season because he had a nice balance between the two approaches, and you thought that if he could just carry that out throughout the season, then he would be onto something pretty spectacular quicker than we probably thought. But unfortunately, teams have kind of got up under him, have sick these kind of big wings at him in order to jostle his dribble. And I do think like he is still in kind of like a shell shock mode when that happens.

And now this wasn't the bigger wings. It was a lot of like Mitchell Robinson whatnot. But that's still a lot of big bodies crowding him. And it forces him to take those threes. And if he's not hitting them, then obviously it's a little bit easier to guard him. I was a little bit disappointed though that the guys around him couldn't activate things because in that thunder game, you saw the cascading effect of Fox. leading into Castle, leading into Harpern. And in this one, it felt like guys were going at times.

But a lot of the time, there was some your turn, my turn stuff at first. And then there didn't seem to be that natural rhythm that kind of burst out in that Thunder game. And I do wonder if this is the battle overall for this team, where it's just like, how do you balance those guys? We saw it down late. Like they played the three guards together with Vassell, I believe, or perhaps with Champagne. All three guards with Vessel and Wembe, which is something we've been kind of eager to see how that would pan out over a longer term. certainly in a game like this. It wasn't really enough of what they needed.

Yeah, and they had to choose even before that going with Harper over Castle, which I don't think you want to do. Harper was playing better. He got Brunson to turn it over with the backcourt violation. But at the same time, Castle was built for these moments.

And even if he wasn't shooting well, I want him out there in that moment. Yeah. I think that was probably mostly just rotation stuff. It was getting Castle a quick rest so he could come back in and finish with that group. The Castle part of this is interesting, though, because he had a really sharp playmaking.

game. I thought he was making some passes. It's like, whoa, that's a nice, nifty feed for a young point guard to make, especially one who's kind of on ball capacity was up for debate in his rookie season. Like, who is this guy going to be? Some really advanced individual passes. But when it came to all these organizational aspects, he wasn't settling the team down necessarily in the third and fourth quarter. He was making spectacular individual plays. And this is sort of the balance of where he is right now as a prospect is, can he do both of those things? Can he make the next level plays, but also get the spurs into some collective next level stuff. I also think there was a pumpkinization of some of their key guys

that really would have made a big difference. And there was too much shot missing going on where we needed shot making. And these were open looks. I mean, Barnes just, he went 0 for four from three. He got to the point where he passed one up and drove into Brunson and got lucky and got fouled. But then you get Vassell, you know, 4 for 14, 2 for 7 from 3. It just kind of added up in a way that was just not survivable, I think, ultimately for them.

On the flip side, Oji and Inobie. Did he miss a shot tonight? Didn't feel like it. I don't remember. It's fucking rules. Every game he plays. We were actually trying to figure out if Rob could curl more than Ogen, Ninobe. We were not trying to figure that out.

I think it's been asking to answer. Could O.G. Anobey curl Rob, I think is a fair question. You know what? I'm willing to donate myself for the experiment if O.G. wants to try it. But the all-around game, like, this is the moment he was built for. He's awesome. Like, just an incredible all-around player.

We know what he can be defensively. And he's one of these guys who's just so good. if you turn your head. Like, if you turn your head to watch Brunson for too long, he will cut. The shot will always be there for him and is super reliable. He's also big enough than a late contest is not enough. All these combination plays from him where he's impossible to pin down,

he's impossible to focus on because he's never the driving force of really anything they do. Do you guys think about the Knicks or Spurs any differently based off of these cup runs? It feels like an affirmation of what we thought about both of them, to be honest. I think if the opposite result had happened, we would have the big takeaways, right? Then it's, oh, like, you know, why aren't the Knicks further along? Why aren't they closer to their core and their identity?

But this is a Knicks team that's missing several rotation guys. And it's just plugging in Tyler Kolic and it's working, missing Kat for part of this game and it doesn't matter. They just have enough, like, impact veteran contributors who make these sorts of huge plays. And that's who we expected them to be going into the season. It's not always who they've been during the early stages of this regular season. but they're here, they're going to be here,

they're going to be one of the best teams in the East. I did kind of feel like you were Louis C.K. An American Hustle, and I was Bradley Cooper coming in and laughing. Every great play that Tyler Colick made, I was like, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, you know, just really having a great time. He's probably going to have his own pumpkinization after I bragged, but... Don't make me the Louis C.K. of anything ever again, please. I mean, if you have...

If you have concerns about the NICs, it would be the bench and, like, to see them and quit themselves in those big moments. It's funny because there was, like, some graphic that came out. I think it was the All-MBA podcast about like the best increase in jump shooting versus and decrease. And Clarkson was very much in the decrease pile. And he was missing to start with.

But he clicked it in the big moments. And this is what you want from this team. And this is kind of the DNA of the Knicks altogether where it's like it's nut crunching time. And these guys just make things happen. That had dissipated to a certain degree because you lost the all dogs attack where it was Hart and Dante DiVincenzo and just like a bunch of freaking piranas out there. But there is a nice melding. of things where it's like the offense is starting to versify a little bit, but they still

have that DNA there. Right. I think getting that sort of honest to goodness, Jordan Clarkson game is huge. It's huge for his confidence. He's had a couple of like little scoring pop games here and there. This felt like a real moment, right? This is an opportunity. It's a different kind of stage.

This is the NBA Cup, you know? We're going to stop and admire its pageantry. Stan Van Gundy definitely is. He certainly did. He loves telling you that this is an important event, which we'll all love. If you don't like it, you're stupid. You don't know. you don't know ball, basically.

But we do know ball, and we respect the Cup. And so we respect Jordan Clarkson and his contributions. Okay. I think that's everything I have. You guys, anything else from the Cup? We love the Cup. Love the Cup. Like Stan Van, we enjoyed it.

Yeah. Do the Spurs need another big? That's my other question. Defensively, I kind of wonder. I thought that Cornett had his little spots. He had, you know, defensively in this game, I was like, this is similar to what they're going to see if they get into any serious West games.

Yes. I just wondered if that was maybe a spot. we feel about that. One more big? Would they be happy? What kind of big would you like? Maybe a little more ranginess and athleticism, but where are you going to go get that? I'm not sure. Is Olinic not exactly what you're looking for there? Not quite. No. No. He's something. He's not a nothing contributor, but he's not really built for a game like this. He's not going to keep Mitchell Robbins in off the offensive glass. Right. And so then in a matchup like this one, or hypothetically against the Houston Rockets, where are you getting these minutes from? Are you going to bank on Harrison Barnes, like really

body and guys up when it matters. Or Julian Champany who plays a good deal of four for this team too. Yeah, I think they've just spent so much of their resources on backup Big Men at this point, getting Cornett and signing to a lucrative deal and then also getting Olinic in there. They kind of shot their Watt in that terms. I guess you could spin Olinic into

something else because he isn't expiring. But it almost feels like they had a vision for that three-man big rotation. Sure. And it would be tough to give rid of that just right now. They also, in fairness, won the Luke Cornett minutes. Yeah. So that wasn't exactly the problem. I honestly think it was a lot more

when the Spurs best players were on the floor they were trying to figure out how to do this together in a game like this and they didn't quite have it in this one which is okay. That was my takeaway for the Spurs very much a work in progress especially after the high of the previous game this is kind of more of what we expected at this point of the season with these guys all getting on the court together.

On the flip side, I think if you would think very long term, the Knicks potentially winning the East, I would still pick them to come out of the conference if the thunder are waiting down the road. It's nice to be able to show the advantage that could show up in that matchup. You want to be big, you want to play bigger, you want to be tougher because that's the one thing that you still perhaps have against

a Thunder team that's going to swipe the hell out of you but don't have that same sort of in order to combat that. So transitive property, Spurs beat the Thunder, Knicks beat the Spurs. So Knicks can beat the Thunder. Knicks are your NBA title winners. Congratulations to the New York, Knicks. Okay, let's wrap it there. So what you're going to hear now is part one of two parts

of the Young Core rankings. First time we're ever doing this. Very excited about this. We recorded these on Monday, by the way. So if there are things that are just a little bit dated, that's why if your Tyler Colick takes aren't as fresh as you'd like them to be. I regret nothing. Yeah, Kyle comes about that job.

The rest of us do apologize. Let's take a quick break. And when we come back, you'll get right into the Young Core rankings. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. The holidays move fast, and Amazon Prime keeps you in control with fast and free delivery. We've all been there. Family plans are full. fluid somebody's not coming suddenly they are coming and you're excited about it you want to get

them a gift so you hop on amazon prime line that up with their interests and it's easy to do because amazon has everything prime's fast shipping is always there for you during the holidays especially when it's last minute and it just can't wait need that last minute gift or holiday essential it's on prime head to amazon dot com slash prime to shop now all right we're back and we're here with the first edition of the Young Core Rankings. Are you guys excited? I mean, Kyle, this is your area. I feel like if anyone, you should be jazzed, but I'm

jazzed to be interloping in it, I got to say. For someone with a really weak core, I feel very confident about the cores, the strong young cores of the NBA. Maybe I'll get invigorated to go work on my core after that. That's what we can hope for. That's the least we can hope for, I think. Three men of a certain age with assuredly

back problems. The weak core just kind of goes without saying. Well, Kyle's the only one who's actually worked on the young corps before, because we used to do this as a site post. Zach Cram did it from a statistical POV. Kyle helped him out, I believe, once, maybe twice. As some sort of like aggregate, like scout versus stats ranking. We're going to do this just three guys talking about some young players.

Hopefully with some expertise, hopefully with some depth. But I'm just going to bring perspective to the table here. So I think the timing of this is going to be interesting because trade season is upon us. And I also think a lot of teams, if you're looking to sell, you're probably looking at some of these players, not even just the blue ship guys, not even just the highly draft. drafted guys, but like, what guys should they be looking for? And so we'll talk through that sort of thing. The rules. Shall we go through them? So we ranked every player, one to 30, all three of us. We aggregated the ranking. Isaiah broke the ties, several ties. Look at that. Crazy. Do we trust Isaiah with that much power? Always. That's why we give him final say.

I don't know. I heard his Ryan Rollins takes coming into the spot. I don't entirely trust it, but I believe he did his best to be objective. He believes in Hugo Gonzalez, and I believe in him. He's already grumbling over. I could just distantly hear him. So players who are eligible, age 24 season or under. So if you're in your age 25 season as designated by basketball reference, you are not eligible. That means we're not going by birth date. We're not going by anything else.

It's just how you're listed there. You're 24 most of this season, practically. You are eligible from there. I just want to underline and reiterate. If you are mad because Jaden McDaniel, is not on this list. I don't know what to tell you. We've outlined it up top.

It's not eligible. Please do not yell at us for including players short 25 and 26 years old. Although he is still very much young. He's young. We can quibble about some anx, but he is, you know, he's not a capital Y young, as in young course.

That's right. So we should just play that clip before every team. Don't yell at us. If anyone is jumping around. Also, in terms of like weighing the depth of talent versus individual talents, that's up to the voter, right?

We'll discuss this as we go along, but different people have different perspectives. And so, like, it really is kind of eye of the beholder. Last thing, we're going to go through in the midst of all of this and mark the 15 best blue chip prospects in the NBA. Not necessarily the 15 best players under 25, but the blue chick prospects of like long-term future from this point on. We'll also talk through some maybes,

which are actually kind of the more interesting. Yeah. I mean, it's almost a question of who will be the 15 best players. So, yeah, not present tense, not too damn. who is highest ranking in the ringer top 100, but who do you believe in? There's an interesting thing, too, when I was listening to you all before we started, talk about the temptation to sort of look at the present because I think the difference between, you know, when we were, you know, water cooler talking about this episode before we got going,

was I felt like I had maybe, I'm not going to say it's an advantage because you guys have now evaluated them with your own eyes. But I have the e-ball before they come into the NBA, I always say really dictates, it kind of creates the sort of DNA strands that really run through a player's career. That is, you know, and that's something that I don't feel myself on deck or getting ready to struggle with as much just because I'm like, it's not hard for me to imagine this player is going to be better than this other player because of what they've done. So that'll be an interesting thing to weigh too as we as we go through this exercise because that also might be a harmful bias. I was about to say, we call this anchoring bias. As far as we're concerned, you have a bunch of junk in your brain about what? what happened in a game against Nebraska that we just simply don't have to worry about.

Or Zaire Williams was really incredible at this YBL event that I went to in 2019, and he has screwed me over ever since that weekend. Yeah, you're deep in the weeds on the Tyler Colick experience. And well, right now. Well, we'll get to that right now because we're going to go from 30 up. We'll break in the middle of this and we'll go into two part. The next episode will be on Thursday. Number 30 wasn't unanimous, but 30 and 29 is one of these two teams for all of us.

Bob and I were on the Clippers, who will fall at number 30. Kyle, you were Knicks at 30. I mean, I don't really think that this is one that I'm just going to, like, claw at the walls of the argument until my fingernails fall off and bleed in hopes to win this argument because it's just kind of, as much as I love Tyler Kolic, I understand Rob, you tease me about, like, him hanging on for dear life when he's out there. I think this is a coin flip. I mean, hook party for the Knicks has shown some things.

I can understand that you would like that. Yep. And Colick, other than that, among these two teams, the Clippers, what is there? What is there that is even worthwhile long term? I mean, are you guys came Christie enthusiasts or? No, I think this is why they're distinctly the number 30 is I look at every theoretically young clipper. And I say theoretically, because even Yonik Conan Niederhouser, that's a project big.

Can you see that again? Yonik Conan Niederhouser. He's very proud of himself to be able to say it. He's rattled it off like 20 times. Literally a player's name. I was like, Rob, what do you want for lunch today? Yonick, what I was like, why did you say that? Look, I want what I want.

A project big, who is 22 years old, you know, so it's like even the guys who you would want to buy in on because they have some intangible quality you might theoretically believe in, they're a little further along the age curve. They've got an opportunity like Kobe Sanders has and they just like haven't really impressed to the point of James Harden kind of side-eyeing him through all their minutes together. There's just no young player on the Clippers. I see really anything in whatsoever with all due respect to them.

And perhaps this exercise goes a long way in explaining why the clippers are where they are because their front office had built this depth of talent before they started making trades, bringing in stars. First and foremost, with the Chris Paul trade, just getting a bunch of just league average guys and kind of building them into something else to the point where Beverly and other guys were there in order to surround the stars that they thought were going to lead them into this nice new generation, unfortunately, did not work.

But I thought that they would be able, because of their front office, office's success and perhaps some of the just the resume. I thought that they would be able to get guys in the 30s in the 29s and the second round picks, but they haven't thus far. And Niederhauser is one of them. He was picked 30 overall. Kobe Brown, another guy 30th overall pick. Keon Johnson, another guy they traded on draft night for Grimes. So Grimes went to New York. Keon Johnson went to the clippers. Like, you got to strike at some point, one of these guys, just to get some rotation minutes from a guy that's not 30 and load managing. Yeah. I mean, another guy that would, that Musa Diabate was as a guy that they had in their little.

I remember it was one from the exercises that cram and I did. Diabatea, huge sharks guy. That was one that I really enjoyed. Hell yeah. He tapped him pretty early as a guy who was interesting. But that's another one. They just have sort of not had the time for that lately. Really since the Shea trade, it's just been very top-heavy as an organization.

And you've seen the bottom fall out, as you're alluding to, Justin, when guys have gotten hurt now with the current version of the clippers and these younger players have had to step into minutes, they would love a Musa Diabate type who would come in and do lots of stuff, some errantly, but enough interesting to kind of keep things moving and bring energy. I can't even say that of the young players that they have. They don't really even give the clippers a boost at all. You got to find somebody. You got to find guys on the fringes. The Lakers have done a good job of that. But if you're going to be a top heavy organization, you have to find a way of manufacturing talent on the fringes in order to turn to contributors

because the gap just is what it is at this point. Do you guys like anybody on this roster? Like, are you a Conan guy? Not really. I never have been. I mean, that was one as the draft approached I remember there was Intel swelling up where people were just like, because he was, he was a transfer who was sort of hiding in plain side on a Power 5 last year. We were at the end of the cycle. I remember people were just like, wow, look at this. You would watch him. Yeah, you'd watch him. It's just utter chaos.

His tape was utter chaos. But then you'd see, I always bring up Javel because he just absolutely reminds me of Javel. And if he gets to that outcome, you know, God bless Javel. He was on, you know, some really good teams with the Warriors. But, and found ways to sort of control the calamity of his game. I think that's the mission that Niederhouser is on. I really like Kobe Sanders. I know that it's been sort of a joke lately.

He's on a team that is asking him to do more than he's probably ready to do at this point. But I think that he has potential as a catch and shoe guy. I think he's a high IQ player. I think that's just the fact that he's even, you know, they are desperate for people to play. But he's gotten this opportunity right now, I think, speaks to the fact that he has something going on. It's just I don't know that he's ready to help the Clippers in the way they need right now. Right. Number 29 then, the New York Knicks. out of the basement, but just slightly.

Congratulations. They're on the first floor. They're on like the entry level. Like they're just... Yeah, it's a split level. Right. I know the guys on this team. Like, I know Huck Purdy has had moments.

Yeah. I know that Kolic has had moments, including recently. I think he played pretty well in the cup game just the other day. And so like... I feel like we treat Tyler Kolic with kid gloves. Well, it's like he does literally anything and we pat him on the head. It's like, nice job, buddy. What's your deal?

Can you tell me... With Tyler Kolic? Yes. I don't, I'm not sure. There are certain young players that you choose to just like aim your poop gun at all the time. I'm just like, Tyler Colick, do I expect him to be first team all NBA? No, I mean, is he a playoff starter? No, he's somebody that comes in and gives you a little burst.

I repeatedly look at Nick's box scores and line up flows. And I will see, I'd be like, oh, they went on a huge run right there. And it was like, Colick just gives them, there are tradeoffs. He has challenges. He's defensively always going to be up against it. He just, he has a kind of a 0.5. ability, I think, that not many players on this Nick's right. Like, he moves the ball. He's a ball mover.

I don't agree with that. I do. I do. I think he has a little too much... I agree with myself. I think he has a little too much aspirational T.J. McConnell in him where the ball kind of sticks with him a little too long. You know, you're out here scanning box scores and game flows. I'm out here crunching tape, Kyle. We are not the same. You know, I'm watching the title. I never do one of the other, just to be clear. Yeah. No, when he when he I find that he gets them that their offense lubricated in a way.

I don't think that he's a harmful sort of deterrent to what they do. I don't think he's harmful. I just think he is a guard of a certain size who to me is not an impact score to me who can be picked on defensively. And I've just seen him one too many times get trapped at half court

and completely smothered out of possessions. And I'm not saying he can't overcome those things. Of course, with time he could. But as far as a prospect I'm ready to invest in, this is why the Knicks are at number 29. Tyler Kowlick is by far their most interesting prospect. 24 years old. 24 years old.

And even then I'm quite lukewarm at best when it comes to the Colic experience. The unfortunate thing is it's not going to get better for the Nix because all of their picks belong to the Brooklyn Nets. And so I don't think they'll be drafting highly anytime soon, but it doesn't matter. So these are your guys. This is your future. I mean, just to play the parlor games here, you know, while we're here on the Nix, if you had to be a Huckporty guy or a Dottier guy, which would you like to identify as going forward?

You know, I'm a Dottier guy. You're Dottier guy? Big Dottier, Justin Barrier, we know it. Big Dottier energy. I might lean Huck Pordy, but I don't know. Where are you? I mean, evenly split, to be honest. I'm looking for help. I'm looking for guidance on this matter.

What a conversation, seriously. I mean, it's, Dottier has, I mean, he's a lot longer, a longer bet, great. And, you know, he's three years younger than Hock Pordy, which is kind of hard to believe. But Huck Pordy has shown things in burst. I think there are some people that think that Dottier has a chance to be. be a really dynamic. I can give you some ball movement, maybe some spacing, things like that.

But no, there's just nobody, you know, Tosano, Ouma is not moving the needle for me tremendously. Not so much. Dalia doesn't really play. But it could also be because there aren't opportunities. It's very true. They need big minutes in New York. And so, all right, we did like two minutes on the next.

That's probably funny. That's great. I think it's generous. Onward and upward. Number 28, Los Angeles Lakers, you're sensing a theme here where top heavy rosters don't have much. going for them in terms of young cores. But luckily, the Lakers did mine Jake Laravia

from the free agency last year. Other than that, the drafting success has been pretty spotty. Dalton Connect is someone we should probably talk about. Is that already over? Like, he's 24 years old. LeBron was very excited to get him, but it feels like he's not a rotation guy at this point.

Things really haven't been right since he was traded and then untraded to the Hornets. We'll get to Mark Williams a little later. Well, I would say it predates that. The reason he was traded and then untraded to the Hornets is because he wasn't very useful to the Lakers anymore at that point. You could ride off of like potential and the idea of him, but now it's almost like he's crashed down to Earth at this point. How do you guys feel about connecting in general? Is this like over or what's the pathway to him being anything?

It's not over. I think he is in the same bucket to me as many of the players that the Lakers have who fit our criteria. Jake Luravia is kind of a side. He actually plays. He strikes me as a guy who could play postseason minutes. and he's not going to kill you in any particular way, he's going to hold up. Everyone else is like,

I can see a path to rotation player status, and that's kind of it. I think Dalton Knax would have a really hard time advancing beyond catch and shoot, sometimes movement shooter guy who you hope to God doesn't get targeted enough to be a problem. He has the size where you would think

you'd be able to hold up better, but he's also like half step slower than you might want him to be for a player like that. So he just, he falls into this mixed zone where he's neither quite as good a shooter as you want him to be. or holding up quite as well defensively as you want him to.

And if he can resolve either of those things, I think there's a place for him. He just has to have the chance to do it. I think his college sample at the end, he was a five-year guy, as everybody knows, an interesting player as a guy who emerged late. He was really, really effective on the ball

as an older player in a pretty good conference. But I think some of the dings, and I watched this a lot from watching him in college, was Rick Barnes would get so mad that he would almost have an aneurism. He would scream at him because he just doesn't see the floor super well. So I think a lot of the sample of him scoring a ton of points and the frustrations of him not seeing the floor, not seeing things as a facilitator. You're like, okay, that's probably unlikely.

Then he gets to the NBA. And I think the narrative kind of, JJ is probably a really unique person to be on your case early in his career in a way that I could see it being tough on its confidence in a way that is really tough to come back from, you know, because, you know, obviously they tried to get rid of him. but you started to hear murmurs about him, things carrying over from what the concerns were when he was still in college of like not seeing the floor, the game's just a little too fast for him. And then you start to see the shooting isn't there to hold him up as the thing that he's leaning back on.

I mean, even spotting up this year 31.6%, which is just not good enough. He really is a prime guy. I know we talked on our last episode about players that probably need a change of scenery. I think he needs a new lease on life really, really badly. The JJ part of that is interesting. It's one of the things that NBA players respect the most is the stuff that they can't do.

Like, if they couldn't do it, then they're like, oh, my God, they're clearly tapping into something important. JJ's done all the stuff you would have to Alden Connect to do. And he's a perfectionist on top of it. And so the idea that you would fall at all short of the standard that he would set as a player and now a coach, you could see how he would find his way into the doghouse. Yeah, it's odd how that doesn't trickle down. You expect that you would want your coach to be in the mold of who you are as a player. But if anything, they often are harder on those guys because they can't do things in the same exact way that you did them.

And so you really don't have that like learned experience of like figuring this thing out. It's more probably muscle memory and just how you do things instinctual. Yeah. Chauncey Billups and Scoo Henderson or something I'm very familiar with. He was pretty hard on him to start with. For sure. Part because Chauncey was, I mean, weird to talk about him now. But like he was a genius on the floor.

He just sees things in ways that people don't. I think the ideal developmental pairings, honestly, sometimes are the interlocking ones where the coach is a former point guard, but the player is a big. Right. So it's like you understand the angles of how to set that guy up. and where, like, where to tell him to go as a point guard, but you're not just constantly harping on your own point guard

to do the exact things you used to do. That's why I think Chris Paul has been really good throughout his career working with younger bigs because I think that he can teach them that, like, this is where our jobs overlap. This is where you need to help out the person that's doing this job, whereas he's not like standing over you like a piano teacher telling you to move your fingers a certain way. You know, I didn't have that experience.

I know it sounded like I did. I did drop out a piano lessons up because I hated it. But, no, I mean, I think something else. else that is tough for, for Dalton, it's just the developmental oxygen. I feel like so much of, so much of development is like putting a player in a position to problem solve something, not necessarily like cracking the whip and just saying like, do it this way, but it's letting them have the discovery, have the moment of discovery. And if you think about the like developmental oxygen that's going on with the Lakers or that's present in the Lakers, you think you got LeBron James.

You think you got Lugodont to choose whole, whole existence is like, you know, everything that you do is in the little moment when I'm done what I'm doing and you need to be very good in that little moment that I've carved out for you. There's not a lot of space to discover and explore, so really tough. It doesn't mean Kinex is going to connect it all and put it all together,

but I definitely think the Lakers is probably right now the toughest place for him to figure it out. It's a good question. I'm trying to think of young players who have thrived next to Luka. It typically is big, like I think of lively early on. I mean, I think there's a reason the guys who have really popped

are more of the young veteran types. They've had a little time. to find their seasoning in the league to figure out what it is that they do well. And then they come to play with Luca and they can be lob threats. They can be shooters. They can be PJ Washington, right? It's like not guys who are totally over the hill, but are in that kind of early prime to prime stage, I think is the ideal team eight for him.

And you could probably say the same thing about LeBron tracing back. I think what's hard to suss out is teams with Luca and LeBron tend to not have a lot of young players because they trade it for veterans because they're trying to advance because those guys are so good that it's not like they're bringing you. and the best possible prospects to grow with them. Right. But if you're, you know, usually. Yeah, if your superstar knows who he is when he's a rookie.

Yes. It's hard for those other guys around him to really find out who they are because they need to be a certain type of player. Completely. La Ravia, we should mark as the first rotation player on our list thus far. So congratulations to Jake. Colick is in the rotation, mostly. Sometimes.

Yeah. I would say not the entire season, whereas L'Aravia was a mainstay. True. So we'll get the nod to Jake. Just give him something. Other than that, you know, some riffraff. Are you a riff? Okay.

Are you an addu stereo guy? A riff raff. I don't buy that, Justin. Your big Nick Smith Jr. No, I used to be a Nick Smith. I actually do like Nick Smith. You know what? As far as guys who had a chance because of injuries and came in and did their thing,

I think Nick Smith Jr. acclimated himself well to being a Laker. He won a game for them. Absolutely did. Nick Smith's still only 21 years old. He's absolutely a quintessential lie detector test guy. If you ask Nick Smith, he'd be like, are you better than Austin Reeves? He'd be like, absolutely I am. Like he's one of those guys who can do a lot of things.

It's just the efficiency's never quite gotten there. It's the score in a point guard's body who can't quite ascend the efficiency. That's just he's falling into that tough class. You have to really, really be able to call your way out of it. Aduttiero, man, I do like him. I mean, the thing about a do, if you were going to forecast a player who could add something and not really have huge ambition that would disrupt a competitive team, A Duthierro, and this is a tweet that I had that got on a Lakers broadcast, but I really meant it was

Aduthierro would dive into a vat of sulfuric acid to maybe get a deflection. The dude is an absolute maniac, throws his body around an incredible athlete, has a potential to be super, super disruptive, just a hustle play guy. And I think attacks the rim with a vengeance. Like I could see over the course of the year. Granted, you've got to keep his role pretty limited. but I think he has some positives for sure. It's a good tweet, got to say.

Quality tweet? I'd RT that. I'd throw it on a Lakers broadcast if I were running on. Shouts to whoever did that, I forgot. Oh, and we should also say just for SEO reasons, Bronny James is a player on this team. I was going to ask. Can I ask a like an actual Bronny James question without a becoming like toxic media thing?

I would love one. Is he an NBA player? Like on any other team, is he a rotation player? Is he a deep bench guy? Is he more of a G-League guy? Like, give me a sense of where Bronny is right now. I think he still needs a G-League program. Yeah. Again, if he were coming in, and the model for him in terms of the prospect watching was like a Davian Mitchell type defender, right? Can he be an aggressive in your shorts, pick you up full court kind of guy? And that would allow his offense to come along more slowly. I just don't think he's bent that. And some of that is the size discrepancy between these other like bulldog guards. Those are players who, despite how tall they stand, can defend people like four and five inches taller than them. I just don't see that with Brani at all. And so yes, he can.

theoretically apply some pressure against opposing backup point guards. But how valuable is that if you can't make shots, actively don't take shots? And then you're also just kind of this like, for no fault of his own, this like walking spotlight. Right. I think it's a really hard way to develop for any player, especially for him on this particular team. So yes, if you traded him to one of the worst rosters in the league, maybe he would play more. But I'm not sure he would really justify those minutes with how he's playing right now. I understand why they didn't do this. But in a perfect world, if you were going to create like a path for him that makes sense, you alluded to it a little bit here is I think he would have just played in college longer.

And I think whenever you compared to him or just at all, and then that was what I really was hoping that they would do for him is send him to a Yukon or send him to somewhere with a big, you know, mother bear kind of coach who can protect him a little bit. And I thought early would have been perfect. But I just think when you compare him age-wise to what he has already been through, you know, 21 years old, and then you look at somebody like a Jamal Shed, or a day beyond, players that had the chance to get into college. He just needed his basketball life to be quiet for a while because, you know,

everything around him was just, I don't, I'm of two minds about it. And I, it's funny because I think of my own son now, like what I would do to protect him and things like that. I'm like, I would just want him to have some quiet and get the, get the eye of Sauron of the basketball world off of them a little bit. I think that's what he needs. So I don't think that it means necessarily that he's going to turn into what you're going to say, but I think he's absolutely got to be a ball pressure guy.

He's probably got to shoot 40% from three. Yes. Could have been a champion. A Yukon. Now he's just a global celebrity. That's the question. Even if you did put him in a college situation where the coach could protect him more. And there's no doubt.

College programs are better at that kind of noise quieting than any NBA team would be. I wonder if you are LeBron James Jr. If that is kind of the exception to the rule, that wherever you go, no matter who you play for, how long you play there, the developmental track would have been better. But I kind of think it would have been loud no matter where he went. I think winning was the reason that I thought of them in particular. I think you go somewhere with a great program, not somewhere where he just gets heavy, you know, fire holes,

fire hose, pick and roll reps. Like I think somewhere where he could just kind of fall in line and have some space where the program itself is big. Anyway, we've talked a lot about Ronnie James, yeah. Well, that was just the appetizer, because we're going to get to the good stuff now. Number 27, the Sacramento Kings. And I don't know if you guys have plugged into this,

but the Maximi Raynod, Hive. Maxime Reno. Maxime Reno. We say Magnific, am I right? You got Raynode's disease. But he's like, come up, baby. I don't know if you guys saw the game the other day, but 14 points, seven rebounds, almost two assists over his past seven. Yeah.

He's got, I mean, he's got really good touch. I think he's been downright respectable in DeMontasabonis's absence. Like, really done the thing. The problem is he is of the build where he makes Chet and Wembe look like Arnold and Carl Weathers and Predator. Like, it's just so lanky and thin And it's so easy to budge him up You think, you think Chad is heavier than than Renault?

I think so. Nah, I think it's great. Rayno's got a little more meat. You know what? Maybe it's the purple. Maybe it's an optical illusion. He just feels... Let's throw to the meat monitor.

We should be done that. He feels so wiry. And look, honestly, regardless of how thin or wiry he is, thank God he's here. Because, like, this is a team that is so bad and so sad and so, like, otherwise, absent any kind of young promise whatsoever. So shout out to Maxime Ritno.

I like Ritna. I mean, he, within reason, I think he has an opportunity to sort of aspire to the Olinic-Saurichy kind of a tier of a player where it's just like, you don't do anything, lights out outstanding,

but you're pretty good. You're legitimate. I mean, he's like a 6-11, seven feet tall. I think he'll eventually be able to stretch the four pretty decently. Something sneaky about Raynaud, though, that people might not have seen if they didn't get to see him in college a lot, is he's kind

in the got some shit to him club in a way that you wouldn't expect. You look at him and you think the stereotypic, it's like French big guy probably tries to shoot threes once to shoot threes. And whether or not he does that well, he'll post you up. He goes to the rim. He attacks the rim. He does. He gives you a little bit more than stretch shooting and I think that's going to keep him around in the league. All the French guys. They kind of want to mix it up. It's really a boom. I mean, they're fine. Look, not only do they go to the got some shit to them Club? Was that the... What's the French word for shit? Can we get the... He's got some...

Leshit. The shit. Yeah. I mean, they've got some Nicholas Batum punching dudes in the nuts vibes to them sometimes. You know, it's just like it's a cultural energy that you know, sometimes the French try to act like they're above it, but they've got that fire in them too. Mierdee? Are you just

Google Trans-Lagin shit? Mierdee. Is that how you would say? I guess Faguerd. It'd be Mierd, right? I literally can't see your screen, so I don't know what you're saying. M-E-R-D-E. M-E. M-R-D-E. That tracks to me. He's got some year to it. Probably, yeah. Well, if you have any sort of stretched your game at the five,

I think you're going to have a place in the league. People are going to give you rotation minutes or put you on a bench and hope that you can hit some shots down the road there. So he's interesting to me. I think the unfortunate thing is Need Clifford, a guy that I know you were high on coming into the draft. Just doesn't seem like he's got much of a run. And when he has, like, the shooting just has not been there,

which is unfortunate because he was an older rookie. He's already 23. Devin Carter also on this roster also 23. So these are guys without as much runway as some of the other. guys we're going to talk about later on this list. And so it's kind of a bummer. You feeling bad as a Clifford stockholder? No, I don't.

I haven't flinched at all. I like it. When he plays, I like him. Your diamond hands. Diamond hands? Is that the thing? What are you talking about? Unshakeable.

Oh, wow. I don't know. That one went past me. It's also a Rockefeller. Sorry. More of a crucial role. Yeah. You really do.

You're translating something. thing. I just don't know what it is exactly most of the time. Yeah, we'll get a Justin translation on that one. No, I mean, if you're going to be, you know, if you're going to deprive you young guys of minutes, you know, you want to have winning veteran players ahead of them, right, to justify that. That makes a ton of sense. Yeah, so I'm being sarcastic if anybody couldn't tell. He's using blue text. No, yeah, I like Clifford. I haven't flinched at all on that. Carter, I wasn't at like super high on,

but I understand an energetic guy who's going to be able to, you know, ideally hit shots. I haven't checked in on Carter in a little while, but Clifford, I absolutely haven't much. He just does so many things. Like, I think he'll fit in somewhere. He's a real defender. I don't know where he slots in offensively quite yet. And that's the area of his game where I love everything that's happening in terms of defense and energy.

And then offensively, he's just so off balance all the time. Like, it's like he's catching himself by surprise with a lot of the stuff he attempts to do. I don't know what to do with a player like that. But I'm happy to try. Like, I'd be happy for the Kings to just give him more of an opportunity to find that footing. Awesome at Summer League. Did he win MVP?

or like come MVP. He was definitely on one of the lists that they put out there. He kicked ass at Summer League. I think there's a list of like 75 players you could tell me won the Summer League MVP and I would believe you. Josh Selby, definitely on that list. Oh, there's no doubt. Summer League legend.

Yeah. Glenn Rice Jr., also. MVP, voted for him that year. Let's go, baby. Does a Nepo vote. I watched Glenn Rice eat candy at a U.S. game recently. I was sitting behind him.

I was starstruck. Glenn Rice was there. Jujubes or what we were talking about? See, I was going to say he seems like a trolley bright crawlers, man. I feel like he was eating Eminem. I forgot the candy. I absolutely should have remembered. If I was, yeah.

Wrong. You're just, what? Typecasting him as a trolley guy? He feels a specific type of guy. He feels like a gummy man to me. I was kidding trollies, uh, gummy worms, right? Specifically a sour gummy worm. What was that time you ate a gummy worm?

Lower one of those in your mouth. It's not a good, is that the only way to eat one? You shouldn't eat them in public. Yeah, you don't want to get your hands all dusty. I guess that's salty. Look, you're more involved. I'm just getting in there, you know? I'm not messing around.

Um, all right. Number 26. And if you're listening to this on Spotify, You should probably maybe click on to the video portion of this because we're going to be putting up all the guys that qualify for each team up on the screen here, thanks to Victoria and Isaiah and Ben for figuring all this out. But number 26, the Boston Celtics,

the first team on my list where I marked multiple guys. So before it was just one guy, Walsh, rotation player, my not rotation player, and then Hugo Gonzalez. See, the question is, are all of them rotation players or are all of them collectively like 1.5 rotation players? And I think Jordan Walsh has probably established him the most out of that trio in terms of the consistency when he's been given the opportunity. They just all have had their moments in a way that I think has been great.

But as far as like, are you expecting them to be full-time rotation guys from this point forward? I think we're still waiting to see on kind of all three of them. Yeah, I had, are we saying Ugo? Are we agreeing on Ugo? Sure. We're agreeing on Ugo. Ugo, Ugo, Walsh, those are the two guys that I marked as had the potential to be, potential to be top 100 players,

potential to be kind of, you know. But Walsh has been pretty awesome lately. I mean, we are kind of all living in his world at this particular moment, just steps into Celtics games and wins them. Oh, okay. But, yeah, so I'm with you on those lines. Like, they do feel like guys who could crack that kind of threshold.

I've said this before, but this is one of my favorite Walsh anecdotes that I thought revealed a lot about his personality was before his rookie season, he was getting interviewed because he had a reputation as a defender. And at Boston Media Days, they were like, what, you know, what goes into being a good perimeter defender? And the first thing that he said was know where the officials are. So I was like, and if you watch Walsh, he's a mega pain in it, like cancorsore mega pain in it. Cancorsore on

your ass. I don't think that's possible, but if it were possible, it would be Jordan Walsh. Granted, it's called something different, but yeah. Yes, it is. Maybe we'll get sponsored. No, yeah, it's, it's always just, It's been about him getting those things on the floor by doing other things because we knew he could defend. But yeah, it's just shooting the ball. That's been kind of the thing they've wanted him, needed him to do to bring that stuff. When established teams have to go and dig through the crates of like second round guys and take flyers on guys, it's always funny because the guys they end up picking are ones that are in the image of the head coach. It's like really to their preference because they have an established structure, but they're like trying to feed into that.

And you know that Joe Mazz like loves all three of these guys. Like if you're thinking of like the qualities of Ugo, Walsh, and Mai Not, it's like one, could they be talked into doing Jiu-Jitsu with Mass? Sure. And two, is they got that dog in them? I do. And all three of these guys have many a dog in them. I think the paradox of having that dog in you and playing for Joe Mazzula is sometimes he does love you, sometimes he despises you. Yeah.

You know? Sometimes the dogs, they just get into a fight out in the yard together and they need to be separated. And guess what, Josh, my not, you're going to the bench right now. But two games from now, you're going to play instrumental minutes in a huge stretch. just kind of the way it goes around there. I had an interesting stat about Josh Shmina. I really enjoy basketball indexes, defensive filters.

They have a couple different, you know, proprietary kind of things. And one of the role versatility is one of the ones that they do that I like to go check. And for players in this field, we'll call it U-24. Among those players, number one, among highest matchup versatility on defense was Dyson Daniels, but number two was Josh Minot on a decent minute sample. So I think that's somebody who you were going to,

we're going to argue what he was going to provide a couple years ago. I think he's proving that he's on the track to be that guy. And that's where someone like Hugo is more pick up the guards full court. And Josh Maynard is sick on basically anybody that needs to be sicked. It's a great versatility to have. Like they all do have their pockets of being best against slightly different kinds of opposition, which is nice. So if the Celtics broke the rotation player barrier, we're now getting to the guys who we have to start to consider in our blue ship rankings. We're going to go to the bucks at number 25.

and they actually have a guy. They have in Ryan Rollins. What type of guy do they have, I think, is an open question. But if we actually did most improved player and went by the letter of the law and not just give it to, I don't know, guys who score a little bit more, the Tyrese maxis who jump from like 20 to 25 points over a season and their third year, even though they were lottery picks, I think Rollins would fit that. Last year, so he was converted from a two-way last March, which is crazy. So it hasn't even been a year on a full contract. and then last year he averaged six points two rebounds to assist he's up to 176 and four on pretty stellar efficiency but I think the question is ultimately like how much of the guy is he like do you see him as a we have in the top 100 right now we do but is he like without yannis there is he just kind of an average guy as opposed to like a guy's guy's guy I mean what defines a guy's guy to you the tom selico war is that a dated reference just tries to Ferrari yeah uh no

just like a guy who could stand on his own, not like a supplement to a star player, although that's helpful in its own right, but like a guy who could potentially, you would consider him for an All-Star bid down the road. I think he would need to prove more, right? We need to drive winning a little bit more. Right now he's in a zone where

because he plays on a team with a star and Yonazate Dukpo, sometimes healthy, sometimes not, we pay attention to what he's doing. If he were doing a similar thing for the Charlotte Hornets, a team of just like much less focus and attention, I don't think we'd be talking about him in the same way, fair or not. And so I think he benefits in somewhat, like, the Bucks need him to be this good so badly that we tend to focus on a little bit more.

That's not to say he can't eventually be, you know, maybe like a borderline all-star level player. I wouldn't rule that out, given what we've seen. He gets into the paint all the time, plays with a ton of defensive intensity. And he's now like two years running of making threes really consistently. This year shooting like six a game, which is not nothing in terms of sample. And shooting him in a lot of different ways. I mean, he can create them for himself really well.

You know, he's 40% in ISO from threes this year. He's 45 and a half on his spot-ups. And in the pick and roll, he's at nearly 40% on, you like to have that gravity at the point of attack. If you're going to be that guy, a guy's guy. And there's really, if you look at the teams below this, I think this is the first player that we've hit so far on the list and the pool of players who can do these types of things credibly and consistently.

If you, he's one of the least accomplished players in a league, I would like to see in the league, I would like to see an entire offense built around. Like put him with a real lob finisher and actual shooting in every position of guys who are consistent and healthy. I just would love to see what Ryan Rollins can do because he's just blown away every possible expectation to this point. I mean, he'd be great on the Wizards right now, a guy that they kind of tossed aside. And it made sense because that he finished his career.

Right. Weird terms. Difficult situation. Yeah. And so, but like, that's the exact type of guy I think that they would want. something someone who's a little bit more stable to build around some of these like more volatile volatile

high upside sort of prospects that they accumulate. We'll get to them later. Did you guys have him in the maybe category of your blue chips or is he not quite there? I think he's a maybe. Maybe feels fair. Okay. But the maybe is a long list. Okay. Your maybe's list

is like 50 guys. It's a lot of guys. I was going to say it's too deep a field to get into the top 15. No, he's he's kind of the, I I couldn't get quite down. He didn't make it high up enough on the list for me. Yeah. Anybody else here worth talking about?

Andre Jackson Jr. is still on this roster. I wish he was worth talking about. Painful. I believed in him. I thought that he added enough connectivity and things like that, but he hasn't been able to overcome his challenge. Too quirky.

There's an antennae compo who technically qualifies because he's a two-way player. Didn't know he was on a two-way? Alex? Alex. Yeah. Good for him. Yeah. Good work if you can get it.

All right, why don't we take a break? And then we'll come back and talk about the rest of these teams in part one. All right, number 24 on our list, the Indiana Pacers. Tough one for Rob. Tough one for Jaris Walker. I know. We just talked about it in the last pod. So I don't really want to beat a dead horse here, but he stinks.

And it's unfortunate. He doesn't stink. He's just like, I don't know. Maybe he does stick. I just got to defend it, but I don't have an explanation for what's happening. other than he's just not good and stable enough as a player. Did you like him from around the draft? No, and I've talked a lot with, you know, people who think in that space about this to try to figure out what's going on or what.

There's a pattern among guys. I think I mentioned Patrick Williams last time because I think he's similar. I just think there's a body type of a big traditional power forward that we really want to push him out to the, you know, we want to push him out to the three point line. And it's just that that in-between game, you know, being near the basket, I feel. like in the 90s and 2000s. I feel like Jarris might have had a little bit easier time. Maybe. But I just think that getting from point A to point B, like that space between, if you think about

somebody like PJ Washington as somebody who we talk a lot, we really value as like being being able to wheel into post-ups, you don't have to outsource that stuff. You can, you can attack a mismatch one-on-one. But he just, he's never been able to shoot the ball super well, not really consistently, even worse than ever this year. And he never has really been able to, he's a high turnover guy, not a great decision-maker. And they, like this season, they've been pushing him to play the three, which I think has been, you know, in the past, he's been a four. I just, I don't think that he's quite had the perimeter game to put everything together to justify it.

And I think it's, I don't know, maybe he needs to go the other direction. He needs to go to another team that pushes him, lets him be near the basket more. He will occasionally have those games where he just hits like a crazy step back three or makes a move on the perimeter that, again, kind of forces you to believe that he could be this sort of prototype athletic forward. But then they got Pascal Seacom and they didn't need him to become Pascal Seacom anymore. And so he does suffer from not being able to just learn through all the mistakes. But he's also shown to this point, I don't think a lot of reason to think that he would be a star-level prospect

on the other side of those mistakes. He could be better than this if you gave him the opportunity to work through it. I just don't know that it would be worth all of the squeeze. This season's a tough one because if you're looking at him from another organization and saying, oh, second draft guy, right? Let's take a flyer on him, see if like, there's any juice left in there. He really has the opportunity to play through most of his mistakes with the Pacers because half of the team is on the injured list. And like even if

Siakam's there, like, there's got to be minutes at the fore for him to play his natural position, all its other stuff. And so like, I don't know what the situation is where someone would look at him and be like, oh, we could draw out that player we thought in there. Yeah. I think there's a lot of that with the Pacers right now. And Ben Mathrin's been hurt. And when he's been healthy, he's played quite well. Yes. This has not been the most gleaming Ben Shepard season in the world. Another guy. I really like and believe in and just has not been able to shoot well enough. And also it's like a good defender but not a great defender. And so there's times where he just gets in foul trouble isn't quite mobile enough for certain

matchups. That's always tricky. Other than that, like Isaiah Jackson is just kind of back and healthy relatively and platooning at the five and that's fine. But there's not a lot for here. Not in terms of players who are actively on the Pacers roster right now, I don't know who you're projecting is making some kind of huge leap in the near future. Haliburton spins the Pacer's merry-go-round in such a way that it can be difficult to evaluate this.

And I think that that might be partly what's going on here because Shepard, I thought, really benefited from the momentum of what they did and the types of shots. I definitely think he is a types of shots, heavy, contingent type of a player. And this roster, you know, sticking with the merry-go-round thing, they just don't, they haven't had anybody that can really get it going. So I think what we've seen is just stilted out of rhythm, guys out of position, doing maybe more than they probably should be doing. And I think, honestly, that's more Hal Burton's age out of this group. But I just think his impact overall for this team is so glaring. And I think his absence is really strained a lot of these guys. I think Shepard is a great call for that in particular because not only does he benefit from having a playmaker like that,

but he benefits from having his role really narrowed. He's not a Jarrett Walker. Let's see everything you can do type. It's let's make you Danny Green and like just kind of do this very. specific thing. So if he is on the carousel, he's not even like the horse. He's the little bench that you sit on and feel very safe and secure. Right now it's not spinning. So what would

Mathrin be in that whole setup? Is he the guy that's like taking your change and like pulling the tickets? I said merry-go-round. You said carousel. I mean, either one. Aren't they the same thing? Mary-go-round a carousel? No. Wait, what is a merry-go-round if not a carousel? I mean, a carousel is a thing that got... You were talking about like something that is self-propelled,

like electric. I'm talking about like Tyres Halliborne is the electricity. Okay, well, there you go. Okay. Well, I'm just saying on a playground, a thing that needs to be manually. Oh, got you, I see what you're saying. So Ben Mathron... You're not in a playground other than lately?

Like, I maintain that they're synonyms, but, you know. Okay. So Ben Mathron, 13 games post-injury, 18 points, five rebounds, two assists. So he's played well, as Rob was saying, when he's been available. The problem is he hasn't been gangbusters in a way that you'd expect. Like, there's so much opportunity for him to live his best life. And he hasn't had a lot of those moments. I guess nobody's really watching, so this is a real tree falls in the forest situation.

I do worry if he's going to fall into the case with Josh Giddy this past summer, Jonathan Comingo, where he's successful to a certain degree. He probably sees himself in a certain way, but the money's not going to be there for a team that already sees itself in another way. Yeah. The Pacers are a Halliburton-driven team. He's kind of ancillary, and he was helpful in certain regards. But do you need that if you're overpaying for that?

I would draw a hard line on him in restricted free agency, and I wonder if that gets messy as a result. can the Pacers draw that many more hard lines, though? You know, they've already lost Miles Turner. The center rotation, I mean, I don't think it's gone great. And I don't think anyone necessarily envisions Jay Huff and Isaiah Jackson as being the long-term solution at the five per se. Have you seen those block numbers? I mean, yeah, that's fine.

Maybe. He's getting the block numbers as he does. He's climbing those mountains. I guess. One carabiner at a time, baby. Big study abroad interview at Jayhap. But this is a team that does need to hold on to its talent. They're going to have the influx with potentially some draft choices,

but they need to hold on to guys like Ben Matherin, too. Right, because they can't replace them. It will be tough very soon because they have the draft pick next year, thankfully. Yes. But after that, you expect them to be so competitive that, like, when are they going to draft that highly again? Once they get Camboozer, this is all going to make sense. Yeah, fit them perfectly.

No, Matherin is just, I don't know that we're ever going to see him ascend beyond spark plug, second unit maybe six-man guy I just don't know that his this he can score in the pick and roll but it's just like you ask him to do much more than that I think you just start to see where the seam the seam starts to show uh cam jones Johnny furphy you a furphy guy the lesser perfee I really do

another guy got some shit to him uh cam jones recently for the first time in I don't even know how long got upgraded to questionable so that's great older guard from Marquette I think he's just one of those older kind of gives you a lot of things doesn't give you a ton but I I expect, I think we'll see more of Cam Jones once we get the full-string pacers. Okay. Denver Nuggets, number 23, unfortunately for the previous front office regime,

they find themselves in the bottom 10 of this ranking, even though they built Nicola Yochukish's future around some of these players. I would say more successful than I thought they would be at this point last year, because Brown is a guy, certainly. He's been out this year, but he clearly plays a role next to Yolkich. He plays very well. Got extended and got paid handsomely to. do so. Payton Watson's showing some stuff. Definitely. In the starting lineup

now that they've dealing with some injuries and so we should talk about that. Other than that, we can talk about Spencer Jones coming out of nowhere and shooting the hell out of the ball. Lord knows we don't want to do that. We'll get Rob going. There was a real Spencer Jones discourse happening. Was there really? Yeah. Can you summarize? Like, what

people get into it about? Some people thought he sucked. Some people didn't. Classic internet stuff. Which I guess if you're really drilling down on what we were talking about was the same thing. But like, you know, Strother has been awful this year. Drone Holmes doesn't play, so it's hard to really evaluate him. But, like, I mean, they have Valentuna, so he wasn't going to play. But, like, that's a guy that I think that had high hopes for when they drafted him.

And so kind of similar to what they've been in a couple of years where it's like, oh, one or two guys, but not the whole second wave of young guys that it's going to carry them into a new era. Yeah. And Strother's been hurt, too, we should say. Especially for a shooter, like a back injury is maybe the single worst thing you can get. Sure. Like, not that anyone on this team needs excuses among this young core, but. My problem with having them at 23 is Christian Brown is just better than many of the players, many of the best prospects on the teams we have ranked above the Nuggets.

So you were actually an outlier in this regard. You had them at 19. Kyle and I had them 23 and 24. And I'm saying that Christian Brown, as you said, has been hurt. Before that, he was having just an objectively bad season by his new standards. But the new standards are telling. Like he made such a jump last year. And I believe in that jump that, to me, is unquestionably a guy.

He's a finals championship validated role player. And since then has only grown in his ability to do all kinds of other supplementary stuff. So I really like Christian Brown. I think the Nuggets should be a little higher. I think you guys are being mean to Christian Brown and Peyton Watson for no reason whatsoever. You might be right about that. I mean, I had three guys on this list. I did want to note that Duran Holmes is kind of being kicking ass in the G league.

He's like 23, 23, a block and a half and 37 a half from three in a lot of games. So they might eventually get something from him. But I think there is an interesting thing going on. here with there are weighted, you know, and this is the proven versus unproven thing where even among like, you know, all star, even among all stars, they're not all weighted the same, even among MVPs, which I know we'll get to that or MVP level players. I think they're not all weighted the same. And the fact that it might not be super sexy and it might not, upside as an alluring drug that can get intoxicate and make people be like, go go and chase that in the top 10, but maybe in the like, we see this in the draft

in the 10 through the 20 range, you might just get a really stable guy who can play for a playoff team and he's not a star, but he'll do a lot of things. And I think Christian Brown is that. So I can understand the argument for having them higher because that is an underrated thing when we're trying to just project upside and things like that. You're right, though, that what the Nuggets don't have is anything resembling an upside play. There's no guy on this roster just like waiting for his time and when he gets it, he's going to pop. I think a lot of people, some of us included, we're hoping Peyton Watson could be that kind of player. I think people thought Strother had a chance. Maybe so. And maybe Strother still will.

I think Peyton Watson has proven to what you were talking about, Justin. He's maybe a better fit with the starters in a lot of ways. I mean, as would anyone playing alongside Nicola Yokic, but he's looked quite good there. Can he be bouncy, athlete, rim protector, shooter, Christian Brown? Like, can he be more in that mold than perhaps what we thought, which was like a high level rotation, not quite star guy, but like a foundational player? I wouldn't put Brown in that category, for instance. I probably wouldn't have extended him at the number that they gave him because I think he's very good at what he's but I think that role and that type is a little bit more replaceable than what you would find from other guys,

even like the ideal version of Strother just because of the shooting, right? Watson might be just a serviceable rotation player. I don't know what you would pay for that because there's still so much promise there. He'd probably want to get paid pretty handsomely this summer and they're already up against some cap stuff. The fact that he looks like a real deal with rotation player is something, especially because he's competing for minutes so much these days with all these other guys out there. And that's the one thing with the nuggets that we should mention, Holmes is a good case study. because him not playing minutes is a result primarily, I assume, from Valencian's being there.

But is that a nice thing to have, almost like a stopgap to not put too much on the rookies because that was the problem last year. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, Watson is less proven. It's interesting that, yeah, he and Strother, you're just kind of waiting for them to instill that confidence. I agree with what you're saying, though. And that's the delimit that they've had. They've wanted these guys to come along a little bit sooner.

So, you know, the sort of, you know, whatever it is, flex seal, I think I've brought this up before and tried to and had the exact same thing where I just can't remember that. No, I think the veteran sort of stopgap guys have taken the pressure off. And that might be the reality forever with this roster. Well, do we want to go one more merry-go-round spin on the Spencer Jones conversation? Do we want to rehash? Our rehash was apparently also kind of rehashed online? Sure.

Is that worth doing? I mean, he's a young player who's like, unlike. Like here than where. This is a great question. Unlike many of the guys we've been talking about is playing, right? Like he is an actual member of the Nuggets rotation because of these injuries. The threes, when he takes them in somewhat small volume, hits at a reasonable clip, I just find a lot of his offense to be like a little vacant for my liking.

And that's where I'm waiting because I see the defensive physicality. I see the energy he plays with. I see the outlines of a player I shouldn't want to like. I was like waiting for the offense to do something that will move me. I've been waiting. I don't think your expectations are just off. Are they? I think Spencer Jones, I don't want to box them in, but I think in the situation that you're

in, if you're the nuggets, Spencer Jones is like when you put on a jacket you haven't put on in a while and you're like, goddamn, $5. And you're like, I can't buy a meal with that. But it's not 20. In L.A., I can't buy 20% of a meal with that. But no, but you can buy yourself a coffee and it's a little spark. It's a little spunk. I think your expectations have to be right, Rob.

We've argued so much about Spencer Jones. He's like, you've got to take him down a peg. I just kept hearing such amazing things about Spencer Jones, and I watch him, and it's like, is this guy even a good defender or just an active defender? How can you be optimistic about Watson playing above rotational level? Yeah. But disappointed in Jones for rising to that level. Did he rise to rotational level?

He's in the rotation right now. You just said it. He's playing. Your words. Like, that's an objective fact. Spencer Jones is playing minutes. is he playing them well to this point he's the flexial

if he's the flexial we're springing leaks all over the place that's that's my argument oh geez we got we got nowhere I thought we were getting somewhere he's also shooting 45% he's shooting the shit out of the ball the shots that he wants they want him to shoot

he's hit no he takes like one shot a game it's a nice shot though it's a productive shot and guess what happens the rest time he's on the floor no one guards him nobody well maybe you know Maybe Cam, John, or yeah, I just, maybe they need to get a little bit more out of the guys that they've invested in so that he's not, there's not so much demand on him.

Totally fair. By the way, you were the one highest on the Nuggets overall. Well, that's because I like Christian Brown and Peyton Watson. I see. There's no question. Like, I just feel really confident about what they give you at this point, especially relative to some of the teams or in particular about the team we're about to talk about it. I was going to say, speaking of teams where we have no confidence in their young players. But somehow they fall at number 22 with the Golden State Warriors.

Brandon Praseminski, Will Richard, Jonathan Kaminga, Moses Moody, and my eyes immediately dark toward Will Richard. Because it's just the low maintenance of it all. Like he's just, he does what he does. Yeah. Hell of efficiency. He plays good minutes and gets the hell out of the way. Well, guess what? He's now unfortunately out of the way even more because Steve Kerr just kind of like yanked him out of the rotation the other night.

I know. I mean, De Anthony Melton is back that's going to eat up some of those minutes. It seems like that's probably most of the culprit. But I really like Will Richard. I think we're all aligned on this. Yeah, I mean, I like Will Richard. It's, for me, for me to explain a little bit of the rationale of how they could be up here, despite us having no confidence, is in these rankings.

Yeah. You also have to rank, you have to weight assets because there are some of these guys. I have different guys marked on my list as just I put a box next to them that just says, volatile. Like, they're low. And in the volatility index, comming is really high because there are people out there, ball knowers, real hoopers, whatever I expect. It's going to be a real hooper brain person out there that's going to be like,

still think he's a start. And I think that if we're talking about the rankings in terms of like, I think asset value has to be a piece of the puzzle because it's going to affect the way you, a superstar player that you have a lot of confidence in, I think, is going to give you positivity moving forward. I think that somebody is going to buy on him at some point and that'll give you something. It's better than nothing. I'm just saying it's better than having like, I don't know, and Kobe Sanders, nobody's going to trade.

Somebody's going to trade for Kaminga. You know, you're going to get something. I've had moments too. And I found myself, we'll talk about the Sons later on, but like something like Jalen Green is a good comp where he's had big moments. And in Jalen Green's case, in the playoffs. Yeah. I don't like him as a player, but how do you weigh that against a guy who's not playing? Guys, Jalen Green is, I don't like Jalen Green very much.

He is so much better than Jonathan Cominga. Like, but the lows are very low. When Jonathan Cuminga has played, he has actively made the Warriors worse on both sides of the ball. I don't know how we've gotten to a place where I have to, uh, I don't know what's to tell you. Has any G. ignite player being good. Just saying. Ultimately, my problem with even thinking of Kuming as an asset,

I agree with you, there are people out there who still see him as a star, still see that talent, still see that pop. He's been on the market for like three years. I would think if that trade was going to manifest, it would have already. And maybe the problem is more that Golden State has held on to him, hoping for that return and not settled for something that would have been acceptable. He keeps having these moments in between the bad moments, though,

which is part of the problem that he'll, show that he will be bought in. Or sometimes there will just be so many injuries that have moments to just explore the studio space. And you'll be like, oh, this giant athlete is just barreling down toward the rim. And I'm like, I can see where teams would be interested in that. And so at a certain point, you have to value that.

I guess it depends on like who you are and what you value. Can't tell you a secret? You don't have to value that. You can just watch him and observe what's happening and say, I don't want any part of that. We didn't talk about it ahead of time. I mean, I did, I did, you know, kind of package asset value. you whether you know I kind of that did play in I had zero problem with that thinking I think

that makes sense for the young course yeah to be fair I had Pajemski Richard and Moody as guys yeah in Kaminga in this like former high lottery pick I don't really know what the labor I guess assets pretty great of doing it and so I think we ultimately all agree I think so I think now does Pajemski agree with us because I think if you ask Brandon Pajemski he might think he's a blue chip guy to hear him tell it he wants to be the next face of the Gold State Warriors after Stefan Draymond retire. And this is where I come into my problem with the Brandon Pajemski experience, which is if he was just a normal seventh to eighth guy in a rotation,

that's a good player doing normal seventh to eighth guy things. If he has aspirations of that, and I think circumstantially he's been kind of forced into that role, and then it seems like by his own wanton ambition, that's what he's reaching for. That's where I want to stop the car and get out personally. Shouldn't we appreciate that he thinks that way? If it helps him.

Yeah, but does it help him? But if he was just like, I like going home and playing video games, like, we would be like, what the fuck is wrong with you for having hobbies? I just want him to be Christian Brown. We do that all the time. There's a very hilarious thing that you see when people, like, in like intel process when these guys are coming to the league, where people, I have, aunt was one of them where they'd be like,

he doesn't like basketball? He's not, he's not in it. Or comp yourself, like, who do you see yourself in the league? If you don't, like, name a player who's like a hyper-efficiency monster. It's like, oh, my God. He just wants to be Kobe. Yeah. Well, what do you expect?

They're 19. I think we would be shocked. I joke about the lie detector thing. Granted, there are some guys who have more nuclear confident, but I think we would, most of these guys, I think it's sort of a mandate if you're going to get to this level. You have to have that. But I don't know, but Jimski might be a lie detector test guy also.

He might just be like, I'm just as good at stuff. That's possible. Yeah. Seems like he feels that way. It does seem like he thinks he is a really special prospect. And there have been times where I've seen a play where I'm like, I get it. Like, I see the ball movement, the connecting. the shots going that day, the counter driving,

all that stuff is kind of coming together. And then just like on balance, the status quo over a 10 or 15 game stretch, there's just a lot that's more frustrating. And so that's why I say, like, I would love to see him channel his inner Christian Brown of just like getting to that point where you're ironing out some of the mistakes

and then you could benefit from the best things that he does. Number 21, Miami Heat, a lot to like here. A lot of guys that are starting to pop in this new offensive system. First and foremost, we should talk about Calell Ware. Yeah. Because I find myself wondering at times if he's a star. And then at times I wonder, I'm like, is he just going to disappoint?

Everybody's just going to be the constant tease. Kyle, do you have a sense of like what his most likely outcome is at this point? Do you think he'll hit like the high end of a ceiling? I think there's a possibility that he could flirt with top 50 in the league. I mean, I'm not ready to say All-Star, but I think he would be, you know, top 50 to 70 range. I think that's possible. And I think that's pretty good.

I'm not ready to commit to the offense being there. Like him, he still needs to prove to me that he can like consistently punish a small after like, you know, turn. And like he's very effective with the lob game. I'd like to see if he's going to shoot the ball really consistently, the defensive stuff is, is really good. And he's a, you know, he's an obstacle. That's kind of where I would land, but I'm not ready to go to the next, to those other levels.

Are you guys? I mean, where are you feeling about it? I feel similarly. I mean, I think to the extent that he will ever scrape stardom, it'll be an unconventional kind of start. It's not ball dominant. It is more defense-oriented. And I think we're seeing him move a little closer in that direction.

Honestly, like by doing more big man stuff, by not just being a pure spacer. It's like if you have the finesse shooting game, sometimes it feels revolutionary when you're just like hitting the offensive glass, finishing those lobs, playing the dunker spot. When you're showing you have more ways to be a productive big. I think that's what the jump has been this season. It's the balance of that combined with being a little more disciplined on defense.

That stuff goes a long way. Yeah, and as tantalizing as the combination with him and BAM is, he's almost forced into that more skilled shooting mold because BAM wants to play off of that. And you want to give BAM opportunities to be by the rim. And so you're right. I think if they could be a little bit more measured and don't ask too much of them too soon, but that's tough considering where they are because we're now getting toward the middle end of the season where things are starting to not sour per se,

but at the very least reality is starting to crash down on the heat to a certain extent. And you're wondering where the pop is coming from here, and Powell are starting to overlap a little bit, and you would hope that Where's Jump would be something that they can count on, but you hope that they don't do it too soon. Kind of in the same mold there as Hakez, who all of a sudden rebounds,

seems like the player we thought he was going to be as a rookie. My concern overall, though, is if the offense changes, if they go away from the Snowler-Rodge system, the no-picks, just beautiful movement, would he be the one that suffered the most? Like, I almost wonder if he's a product of the system as much as he is his own unique YMCA sort of game. I think we've seen that.

To your point about the rebound, if we did this a year ago on a podcast, how fast would we be fast forwarding through the Jaime Haka section? Because it seemed inexplicable the way his game was falling apart. Because he, in theory, should be adaptable to lots of different systems. I think he just needs a baseline flow. And it doesn't have to be no LaRoche level, no picks flow. But as long as you have some movement and like a kinetic nature to your offense, I think he can find a way to tap into most things.

He's a good enough athlete, I think, that once you get the ball moving, yeah, it's like once you slow him down and get him into a like, you know, we're doing a little, we're doing a dance to try to get me a tougher shot. I also do think that's something to be said without, you know, we don't know the details, but something did seem off with him last year in terms of all the other stuff off outside of basketball. So I'm not ready to just do its full indictment of him on that one. I did want to say on Kalea, one more thing about him is that we have sort of hammered over and over again about like we need you know to make this type of player work we need a big guy who can

be a real for him i think it's craft around the basket he can we know he can dunk the shit out of the ball he's big and long but he's somebody that if he's a lob threat and he can consistently he can hit catch and shoot threes which right now he's at 42.1 percent and guarded unguarded he hits open shots so that's or he hits shots from three so that archetype is really valuable and i think that that's that's a huge chip for for miami there are games with where he's not even playing particularly well and just he feel, like his presence around the basket feels like something the other team does not have whatsoever, right? That length, that athleticism, that kind of disruption.

He'll be like blocking shots, altering shots, and then he'll do something that frustrates Spoh and he'll get yanked from the game. And it's like all those things are kind of true at once. He's maybe not exactly where he needs to be in terms of every aspect of his defensive execution and positioning, but the stuff he does, you just can't find everywhere. Well, I guess Nikola Yovic is a good segue based off of that.

just because I almost wonder if only one of Hakez or Yovic can be playing well at one time. The skill, big man size sort of guys. As one goes stronger, the other must diminish. They share a soul. Yeah. They extended him this summer right before the season just kind of has fallen off a map. I don't get it. I didn't get it then, to be honest with you.

He's been one of these guys who I just never quite understand what I'm supposed to be seeing. Like can't do a little bit of everything but nothing at a truly high level. and sometimes those like B, B minus guys across the board turn out to be quite valuable in the right system or the right circumstances. If you're that and you're not useful in this offense, I don't know what the good fit is for you. You know, he's not a stand still stay in the corner kind of guy.

In theory, you want him putting the ball on the floor, making decisions, making plays, using his length and his ability to create to, like, your advantage. He just has not functioned within this offense well, really at all at any point. And it's been really tough to see. Is it just a matter of like, bounce competence not quite being there is that what is that what he's just more comfortable being in a sort of a ball screen you know we point to you shoot the ball kind of a thing whereas this this

system really granted you're driving closeouts but it's a little bit different than you know attacking your man with with a dribble and making something happen you know is it that is that the case definitely could be i mean what are his primary skills once he has the ball he's attacking like it's the passing but he's not like an elite passer he's not an elite shooter and so okay handle like yeah to your point okay at most things so it's almost

like a novelty it's like this big size player who can put it on the deck a little bit it's like what are you going to do once you've done that yeah and so I can see well the answer is you're going to get outplayed by simone Fontechio who's at least better at a number of those things one superlative beats out your sort of you know maybe you have a wider range of things

that you might do well whereas one guy who can really do something like shoot the shit out of the ball like Frontecchio is going to be cream rising to the top. Yacchus just can't get on the court. Still seems cool to me. Eric Spolster doesn't seem to agree, but I like who he could be. I guess he's a ball screen guy, right? Yeah, I'm sure he's been penalized by this.

He needs to get bigger. He needs to get stronger. He's still super young. And he also just needs to be a consistent shooter. He's got a lot of things. He's got to level up in a lot of different areas. I trust the basketball brain in Casperus Yakichonas, but I think we need to wait another year before we develop strong feelings one way or the other.

Well, number 20, a team I have very strong feelings about us, the Portland Trailblazers, which if you're a Trailblazers fan, you're probably feeling pretty bad. They find themselves here just right above the bottom third of the league, because a lot of their team and a lot of their hopes rests on a lot of these guys. I will say there's some solid stuff here. Klingan is just, he's a solid dude at this point. Just a good hang? We haven't spent much time together as much as I would like to.

When you say solid dude, I'm just imagining like, you know, just in the basement together, just watching movies, crushing beers. Just a solid dude. He's just a magnolia picture guy, you know, being into the criterion. Second rebound percentage, seventh and block percentage. I know exactly who he is. As long as he stays healthy, he's going to have that career. He's just a big old rim protector.

That's a big if, though, if he stays healthy. Well, for everyone in the NBA at this point. I think my question with Klingan, who I agree, I quite like, is do you think he's ever going to get past that plateau of more than like a 25-minute in a game big because incredibly valuable in certain situations notably, and this is just

theoretical, less valuable playing deep drop against Jeff Curry while he takes 12 threes, sorry, makes 12 threes theoretically. So there's circumstances where I just like don't really see how he stays out there. And that's why I wonder like can he ever be a full time, full load starting center? That's

where I want to see him get to at some point. The baseline is high, but like you were, yeah, what you were saying, it's it's not wide it's not versatile i i as i was going through this this class i was just like man it really there is really is a depth and a wealth of young like defensive anchors and and a lot of different types of players you talk about the wares the sars who we'll get to and we have the drop guys like the clingins and even the cork burners that we'll talk about later um i just think in terms of the the blazers man i mean it's just kind of amazing how we the like league pass

ambition that we had for this group a couple of years ago where we were projecting like, you know, man, Sharp's flying around, scoot's speeding around. We're just, there's going to be lobs. It's going to be, it's going to be fun. And it's amazing how Denny has just come and kind of, it's a credit to Denny, but it also is sort of an indictment on these guys not developing that Sharp just never really going to be trusted to be a full-time decision maker. It's just kind of like mercenary score if he, for when he ever, if he changes homes, I guess it'll become a mercenary. But, and then you start talking about scoot. It's just, I asked you this the other day.

I mean, just like, where is the scoot warning? Like, how bright, you know, in terms of like the Homeland Security color code, if we were going to do that for a scoot. For his hamstring specifically. What are we doing, man? Well, the hamstring I'm pretty concerned about because he hasn't even been cleared for full contact at this point. But I think he's a neutral because he was about to turn the corner last season. Like, I thought this season may not have been the superstar breakthrough,

but I thought he would have acquitted himself as a good or, high level starter in the league. I think that's ultimately where he'll settle. I've just been so impressed by his makeup and his mindset about these things. He just seems like a hard-o grinder who really revels in mastering some of the nuances of the position. And when you talk to him about it, he will talk your ear off about all of the miners, different things that he did in order to have success last year, the shot came around, and everything started to get a little easier as a regard.

He needs to shoot better and he needs to do it consistently. At the basket is the big concern for him. He needs to develop a floater. He needs to shoot it at the basket. Yes. Yes. It would be great if he had anything at the basket. But I actually trusted him.

If the shot was real from the outside, getting the floater seemed natural in that progression. So I'm pretty high on Scoot, but will they find the star? That's the big question. Yeah. I mean, Danny being a star helps. Yes. But I would say one of the reasons to be high on the Blazers is that at the very least they have lottery tickets.

I think Shaden were all pretty concerned at this point. I think we're pretty solid. Yeah, I wanted to get your progress support on the Shaden experience. If Shaden can't shoot well, which I thought was going to be his elite skill, no matter what happened, I'm really worried. He's probably just more of an energy score. He still has the ability to float in the air, and so you want to keep betting on it. But at this point, he should have shown something to say that like, and he's all the opportunity this year. Yeah.

Like he has showcases where he could just be the guy who is the go-to scorer against, like, multiple opponents in a row. And he just hasn't really clicked there. But if you're playing optimist, you would say if he does click it in, like if the mindset part of it clicks in, like, he could still be a guy. And I think Yang is in that same mix where, like, hasn't showed much. She's looked pretty rough out there against NBA competition, better against the G League. Yeah. But he's a lottery ticket. So they're at the very least, they have these bets.

And so if you were to think better about the Blazers, they could unearth something down there. The Young one is tougher. I mean, she didn't, yeah, there's lots of caveats, but he's still been incredibly productive within the realm of what he's being asked to do. I don't agree with everything about the way he sees the floor or some of the shots he takes, but he does things that are important to a team. Does he see, you said that you said he, the way he sees the floor you think?

He sees something out there. Is it like globs and shapes or is it like, the, the full acuity is not necessarily there for him. Yeah. Yang though, I mean, you don't see it.

Well, I just, you know, the dream was there. I would say a big old ice cold glass of water has been poured on that dream. How many, how many NBA minutes has he played? It's not been a ton.

Yeah. But in those, in those, it's not lost, it's overwhelmed. Unspeakably slow. Yes. Like I just, you know, I want to hold out hope. The skill is clearly there. I worry with him, will he ever be a guy who's just not in constant foul trouble because of the foot speed?

It just seems like he has a hard time being in the right places at the right time on defense in particular. And maybe that is an experience thing. Maybe the more you get at the speed, you're anticipating and you're not reacting so much and that'll kind of help him in time. But for where he is right now, he has a lot to learn. The dream is not, is not dead. but it is, I think, fully soaked at this point.

In every young player, there's got to be a tension and there's got to be a release if you're going to be a star. And I think the tension is what it is that you do with the basketball that other teams have to go stop. If you're going to be a star, for example, like a Josh Skiddyweed, like rim pressure that enables his passing. The problem for me that when I was watching Young, coming up to the draft, I was just like, yeah,

I see all these great skills. And I see him passing the ball. I'm just like, I don't know where the tension's going to come from. Because I don't trust the, I don't trust the shooting. I was like, the thing people really kept wanting to compare him to like a shingoon or a Yokich or something, it's like, Yokic is a fucking offensive bully. He goes out there and gets to the rim, put you in the basket, can score every which way. And that unlocks those other superlatives. And I just, I worry. I mean, I just think about like Robbie Avila, like Indiana State,

the goggles guy who's at St. Louis now. It's just like he's a great shooter, but he's not going to be able to score in the NBA. So he's not a prospect. It's just that those things have to work in tandem. And I'm just still kind of waiting for Young to prove that. That's always been my hold up. Can you say the bit about tension and release again, but whisper it seductively into the microphone? Every young player needs tension and release. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, just go ahead. Clip it, ship it.

Let's get that out in the world. Yeah. I mean, the other thing, too, if you want to just keep going with that, I mean, Sharp is another example. That he has the tension of the individual scoring. But he sees the floor very narrowly and the shooting is inconsistent. I think with Sharp another thing, too, is just that like when you're an athlete that has everything available to you, I think it can kind of delay your mental processing of the game in a way where Sharp has been that dude. It's just I kind of, I think the best that we can hope for him is maybe like some kind of DeRosen decision making revolution happens to him in like year seven.

What year was that when he had that leap of like, oh, he's the, it was with the Spurs, right, I think. I mean, but even before that, DeRosen was showing like exceptional levels of graft, right? Like exceptional footwork because he was in like the Kobe school in terms of the mid post stuff. Shaden doesn't have that kind of technique. It is all explosion. It is all like off the dribble. And maybe some of that is because of where the NBA is right now. But I would settle for, you know, a real refinement in some area of his game. Just get to something more reliably.

The Ricky Davis school. Yes. That's a good one. Young has played literally 100 minutes. But to Kyle's point, like, he is a bruiser, but in a way that doesn't unlock some of his skill. You know, like he wants to play physically, but it doesn't. feel like he is used to NBA level physicality and thus that that is not

an advantage at this point. I will say like the roster at the very least is built to empower him so if it does click on this team can skyrocket pretty quickly because it's all they have all these wings to the earlier point about like some of the stars that they they hoped would come from the draft like the team is

Denny, Tumani and Drew and if you have that much to a talent having a big playmaker to unlock them makes sense at least theoretical. And this is one of those areas where Denny is not eligible for our young corps list, which is why the Blazers are at number 20. He's awesome, but just does not fit.

So young. Great haircut. Looks great. Handsome guy. He has his own protein ice cream. Does he really? Yeah. That has to be a league. Unique situation. You've had it.

Admit that you've had it. No, it's only in Israel. But I was like... You didn't import? I will. I just wonder someone should have waved a red flag at that before it got off the ground.

The protein ice cream? Yeah. Someone's like, oh, so you have a protein ice cream. I mean, it's more sensible than many of the protein-oriented products at the store right now. Protein cream. Yeah. That's something you're into? I mean, milk has protein in it.

Okay. I think you got to kind of, you get a kind of a sin pass a certain level of exercise to feel good about having protein ice cream. I don't know. I'm just saying. There's some protein popcorn at the office. This is what I'm talking about. That's too much. That's not a real thing.

That's not a thing. Number 19, definitely a thing. It's the Phoenix Suns. Who would have guessed that the Phoenix Suns, number 19 and a young core ranking at this point, like what, like two months ago? But I'll be honest, I was higher on the Suns, if only because of the green thing I was talking about before. But also there's just like a little bit more depth than you'd expect. Like Mark Williams is good for what he is. We could talk deeply about like what they paid for him and like his injury history and all that.

But like Williams, Green, Ryan Dunn, I like. Molo Watch will see he's in the prospect category or the asset category or Cheryl Fleming. Kind of a similar thing. There's actually more youth on this team than you expect. We didn't mention is Oso Oka Darao. Yeah. Everyone loves saying that name. I mean, another one that just rolls off the tongue.

The old Tyler Colick pick and roll partner. They were fun. Yeah, I mean, if you look at the list here, it's, I mean, Bray is probably somebody you're just kind of hoping because he's six, seven, and he can shoot this shit out of the ball? It's just can he stay on the floor defensively or give you anything like that. It's not a group where you're like, there's an obvious, this guy, you know, it probably could get, maybe could give us something. there's not an automatic like this dude stinks probably not going to make it like there's this is a solid it's solid I don't know about like the overall upside right you know I think it's more likely to produce like a solid role player um like a starter level kind of a player but but it is deep I think they just fit where the suns are right now too like not only are some of these guys playing they're giving the suns the energy that is driving why they are winning you know I think I think Donigadara Williams in particular like just really active not perfect all the time not completely well-rounded players.

but they just throw a lot of length and activity and like flying limbs at you and they force you to adapt to that. And if I overrated them and I probably did because I had them 14th on my list above the 76ers for instance, it's probably because the guys on this list do feed that style where it's like a lot of two-way wings.

Even like Fleming, a guy saw in person a couple weeks ago, it's like he clearly has a long way to go but good Lord the wingspan on that guy. So I can see the defensive potential on some of this. You're not a fan. I just, it's my long worry with him. I worried in college, I worried that his shot chart had been kind of manicured to present a certain way. When I would watch him, speaking of the in-between stuff that we were talking about,

I was just like, oh, boy, it was just ugly anytime he did anything other than shoot a wide open three. And I worried that he might fall into that body type archetype that we talked about with like a Jaris Walker or somebody that really passes the airport test in terms of like a big wing with big shoulders, super rippling muscles. And he hits an open three. But when you ask him to do other stuff, it's like, ooh, rough. So I need, I still need to be kind of won over it was for sure. What is the airport test? You never heard of the airport test? No. Do you know what the airport test is to get through the scanner?

Well, it's like you look at the, you look at somebody walking through the airport and you're in the, it's just the looks test. Like they're big, they look, that guy. Split second eye test. Yeah, it's just like there's an athlete, you know, it's just kind of that thing. See, I was thinking like, will he fit comfortably into an aisle seat without bumping his shoulder against the cart? Like what is the airport, not airplane. Well, you know, that's your problem. I mean, look, it's a constant problem.

You're an exit row guy, I'd imagine. I mean, at every opportunity. Okay. You know? Isle? If possible. Always aisle. Yeah.

Window. Window. See, I'm a recovering window. I've come into the aisle phase of my life. I just, I need the room. I don't like the, I'm not leaning away. I'm just kind of like, and the key to being a good window person is don't drink a fucking drop of liquid for you get on the plane.

I'm not going to make everybody get up. I will not do suffer that, make anyone suffer that. I've never done the windows or I've never done the emergency seat. I got on the other day and there was an old dude passed out drooling. I was like, it's usually somebody like that. Oh my bad, that was me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have a terrible bladder.

So aisle is the only option. I'm like an old lady. How many times are you getting up during the flight? How long is the flight? Three and a half hours. Twice. You're doing two peas on a three and a half hour flight? And if also, just to get up and get around.

I mean, that part's fair, but I think we might need to get you a bag at that point. Jesse Ventura, like, I have to lay down in the aisles. My blood flow. I don't have that, but I do have if it is over three and a half hours, I start slowly losing my mind. Like, whatever is remaining of the flight is just the descent into madness for me at that point. People listening to these podcasts. And you don't even go for noise-canceling headphones we found out, which is like an absolute necessity on planes. I feel like it scrambles my brain when I'm doing it.

Something's wrong with you, I think. It's like living in like a place where there's not somewhere within 10 miles. It's eerie when you put the noise cancelling on and you can't hear anything. thing. It's like, am I in space right now? Maybe you are. All right. So the Phoenix Suns, Mark Williams, we should talk about. Big old target seems to have, like,

refound his footing as, like, a prospect of note. He makes sense. Another guy playing 25 minutes. Another guy, you have to worry about his injury, history, especially considering a trade was vetoed or rescinded. Sure. Based off of that or whatever the Lakers concocted in order to rescind the trade. I will say looking back on it, the trade for him doesn't look as bad as I

initially thought because they traded two first and also then went and drafted Malawatch. But one of the first was 29th, and the Hornets selected Liam McNeely with that. It's very good right now. And another was a 2029 first, and it's the worst of the Cavs Jazz and Timberwolves. And so pretty neat little deal for the suns who haven't made a lot of those in five years. Yeah. I like this deployment from Mark Williams, too, where if you asked him to be the catch-all big where you're funneling everything to him, a la.

a Rudy Gobert disaster. Like he just can't handle that from a positioning standpoint. At least hasn't been that guy so far. But if you're flying around pressuring on the perimeter and making everyone who gets into the paint panicked and rushed, Mark Williams is actually a pretty good like swoop in and block and alter shots kind of defender. And so you tap into obviously everything he gives you as a lob threat and a finisher inside where he's incredibly athletic, has that bounce, has the timing, has the hands.

And you're minimizing the ways in which his defense might actually be a liability. I think Jordan has done a really great job, like finding the perfect fit for him. He's a run, jump, dunk guy, I think, and he gives you a side of the coin to play with if Malawatch comes around and they decide they want to keep him. I know he's on a one-year deal right now, but he's more of a scheme, versatile guy in pick and roll than Malawatch is. But so I think eventually if you want the, I think the center rotation for this team has a chance to be, you know, something interesting to keep an eye on. Could they be like what the Mavs had with Gafford and Lively, which is a lot of the game? like springy go go up and get it bigs. Now these are just road graders.

You have 48 minutes of giants. Interesting idea. Especially if you're trying to keep Mark Williams healthy, I think any way you can limit his exposure in time is probably a good thing. All right. Number 18, the Brooklyn Nets, who are as we're recording this on Tuesday afternoon are four and two over their past six games.

Halcy on days for the Brooklyn Nets right now. We've actually talked about them a lot, surprisingly enough. We haven't had a maybe in a little while, and I'm not embarrassed to say that I have Noah Clowny as a maybe as a blue chipper. Maybe a blue chipper. Yeah.

Probably the long, long list. But I'm buying it. I would go as far as we have to be the preeminent Noah Clowny podcast. I hope so. Is anyone talking about Noah Clowny as much as we are? They shouldn't be. I love Noah Clowny.

Blue chip seems intense. Yeah, probably. Seems like an intense level of expectation for him. I just, I went with the maybes as guys that I had to stop and think about it. And he's one I was like, Oh, I believe in him being the best version of what we've concocted for him as this just plug-in-play, 3-D rim protector shooter.

And so that's why I thought about it, but probably a little too strong. I think he projects as like his ceiling. I think his arc is aimed at high-quality role player. Very versatile. Like, well, the highs will be high. Do impressive things at his size, like at 610, you know, hitting threes, getting to the rim dunking on people. His positional versatility defensively is really strong too. And I think that might just be enough.

I don't think he needs to be a facilitator. I think if he's those things, he interfaces with a star, which the Nets don't have yet, and hopefully they will. And then I think we'll see a lot of good stuff from Clowny, and I think that's plenty. Especially when you think about how valuable that type of player is. That's almost like an Aaron Gordon-esque kind of contributor, right? Someone who's really tying together lineups,

who's able to connect all those dots, offensively and defensively. That's an interesting over-under to bring up for Clowny. I mean, do we have... I don't think he's getting to that level. Like, Aaron Gordon is about as high-level, a quote-unquote role-player. is you're going to find.

And it's just a hundredth percentile athleticism. And started more on the Star Trek and then pivoted to be the positioning that in different ways. Yes. But you're right. I think about that a lot of times. Like people perhaps underestimate having a Gordon like that. If you start with the Gordon as your mindset and you just follow that track, I guess the question

is, is he okay with just being very streamlined? Because Gordon at this point has very little waste in his game. Yeah. I think whenever you're trying to project players and I find myself in this position a lot when players are younger coming, you know, and they're in the draft. We're trying to figure it out. There's this phase of, especially if guys show me things and I'm like really wild by them. I'm like, like, Yeager or last fall with somebody like that where you're, it's almost like you're in a huge arena and you think you know where you're going. And then when they do something like that, you think you know how big the room is.

And whenever they do really impressive things, it's like someone just pumps a fog machine in there. And you're like, oh, boy, I don't know where the walls are anymore. And like when Clownie does things, like he drives at the basket and dunks on somebody and swoops in, a box of a shot. You're like, I don't know how big this room is, but when we were just talking about Aaron Gordon, I felt like I just like kind of backtracking a little bit. Even asking the question is insulting to Aaron Gordon because I just felt like I kind of walked into a wall for even thinking that. So, yeah, he's, I think he's well short of an Aaron Gordon. That's probably more just praise for Gordon than it is for that's the highest of the high.

We might need to institute an Aaron Gordon bong. Like if you try to compare any role players to an Aaron Gordon. Just give each other concussions. Get it together. Be reasonable. Gordon Bonk. So in addition to Clowny, though, there are eight other guys on this list for the Nets,

and all of them are interesting because all of them were practically picked from last year's first round. On this list, Rob, who's most interesting to you? So we got Diyomyn, Saroff, Traori, Powell, Wolf Sharp, Cam Thomas, even, Zaire Williams. Yeah, what does it mean to be interesting?

This is what I'm wondering as you ask me this. Who has the best future ahead of them? I mean, Cam is kind of undeniable at what he does. Let's fucking go. Do I like those things? It's undeniable that he will do what he does. That's the thing. Can I ask you a question quickly about Cam Thomas?

So he's played eight games because he's been out for a while. And this is the problem, by the way, with betting on yourself. A team isn't going to rush you back if you bet on yourself. They're going to take the long. And this is a trend with him. He's picked up a lot of injuries over the last couple of years. So in those eight games, he has a 32.8 usage percentage. How many assists do you think he's passed out in that time?

Oh, boy. I mean, I feel like it's been a lot. a little lower this year, but I could be wrong about that. I think, like, per 36 or per game, what are we saying? Just no, total. Total assists. Total assists. Total assists.

Over eight games. A game's total assists. 24 assists. Close. 21. I overshot it. Yeah. I do think in his defense, I think he has accelerated a little bit as a playmaker.

The question is like, does he want to be someone doing that stuff? And even if he does, do I, as a person trying to, like, objectively analyze this game, trust that he's going to make? the right basketball decisions all the time. I just really don't. And maybe that's uncharitable, given what the Nets have been. I wouldn't say he's been given

a lot of great decisions to make in terms of the players he's been playing with over the last couple of years when he was healthy enough to play. I just don't love it. I just don't love the Cam Thomas experience. And yet, what he does, he does get buckets.

Like, he is a legit score. He is a creator of a level that some of these other guys would be aspiring to. And so it feels a little disrespectful for me to sit here and say, like, Yeagor Jomon's going to really figure it out

where Cam Thomas will not, when Cam Thomas is just a little further down the curve, doing the most important stuff. I think you're entering into a value conversation of which would you prefer to have. Would you rather have something that is rigid and it is going one direction where, like, a Cam Thomas that is sort of similar to the Benedict Mathrin thing of just like you have to keep the, it's the pilot light guy. I remember Justin, remember our argument over that metaphor about the one of the good ones. Some fires are great if it's controlled in a furnace, you know,

know, it can heat a house. But if it's outside of the house, it could burn it down. So that's always what I say with him. You're talking about like the assist thing with him. Assist to usage among players at his position. 0.51. That's seventh percentile in the league. That is very, very low. So among dudes to do what he does, yeah, he is he is tilted heavily towards scoring the ball. To be fair also, like this year, like it really was like just do whatever you want to start with it. Him in time, him in MPJ were really letting it fly to start the season. Him in particular. Yeah.

Well, now that they've established some semblance of competency, I do wonder how he assimilates back in there because now he's going to butt up against Geoman having the ball,

MPJ firing away, and a lot of these guys figuring themselves out, Danny Wolf, a woo baby. I mean, he's really coming on. Finally getting some run, Danny Wolf.

The Jewish Joker. Yeah. I mean, he's had some awesome shooting games for one. Like the range feels real, Wolf. When Wolf puts the ball

on the floor and tries to drive, it feels a little like trying to get your Subaru out of the snow? Like, it's just like, there's really a kick before. You looked at me. When he said Subaru, do you drive a Subaru? No, but there's this whole thing about Portland where they're

everywhere, the hatchbacks. And what's funny is, I need to get a new car in a couple months. And I, you're thinking about it. You thought about it. Yeah, looking really hard at those a little yellow Subaru with a roof rack. Yeah, just put my bike on there. I don't bike in. But you could get a bike if you had a Subaru. And some skis and the snowboard. Kayak?

No. Not a kayak? Not a man of the water? Do a little pod prep up at Multnomah, yeah. I don't know what's down there. Fair. But yeah, like, it's just, look, the first step is tough. That's all I'm saying.

That's true. Are you a Geoman believer now that you've seen more of him in the NBA? I'll just sort of, like, tack on to the thing that I just said about whenever you're trying to pick an archetype of, like, would you rather, if you're missing one thing, which thing would you rather not have? Like, I think Geoman is somebody who doesn't necessarily, it's the tension thing, too. of is he going to be able to hit open shots? Is he going to be able to get to the rim?

Is he going to be able to get into the teeth of the defense and not turn it over? I love Yeager's pluses. Like I think his basketball brain is among the highest of the players in this field of these young guys. I would prefer to play. Personally, me, I would rather have a player like him. I am a believer in him. I think he's good. I got so worried about the shooting before the draft that I just kept pulling him down.

But I think he's going to get bigger. I think he's going to get stronger. I'm a believer in NDMN. I really am. Well, it's odd because his split between threes and twos has been pointed out in several places, including here, I believe. Right now he has 119 three point attempts and 59 field goal attempts, or two point attempts. So it really is double the amount.

And before we used to get really concerned if a guy couldn't shoot and because of how much a priority shooting is now, like, do we have the same concern if he's not getting to the basket in scoring? Oh, for sure. Which is more concerning for a guy. like him. I think we're at a place with the NBA where every team can create space. Yeah. The question is like, what can you do with space? And if you're not quick enough to knife through defenders and either make the right play or hit floaters or get all the way to the

basket or draw fouls, there's just like a clear ceiling on what you can contribute. And so that's going to be the battle with him. Like I do think the shot is going to come along like you, Kyle. I really like just the way he sees everything around him and the way he tries to create plays for others, it's just going to be a matter of like, who is he going to be as a score and how versatile is that score going to be. He's big. I think that's something that maybe doesn't dawn on people is he's a legit six eight, six nine. Yeah, he's a big guy. I think I would bet on on Yeager as far as like an overall prospect. I still believe in what he can be. I also feel quite strongly that Drake Powell is just going to be good. Like I just, I think he's going to be good

within a narrow range of something, something we've been hitting on with a lot of these role players on these other kind of smaller young core teams. But all of the marks are there for him. It feels like he could deliver on a narrow role player potential. Right now it's like a little subtle for my taste. Like you would take a little bit more, but I think he can deliver that. All right.

Two more left in this batch. Number 17, the Memphis Grizzlies, who unfortunately, we have another injury for Zach Eadie, stress reaction in his left ankle. I mean, just about one of the worst things you can hear for a big

in terms of stress reaction injuries. It's just... Especially because he had surgery on it in the offseason. So re-evalued in four weeks, I imagine we're talking like All-Star Break at best with him because re-evaluate in four weeks means probably two to four more weeks after that. Pretty concerning because he was probably on his best stretch of his career at this point. It's like every time he finally gets some momentum, he gets hurt with something or another. And it's usually these sorts of like red flag chronicy big man injuries.

I'm very concerned. He's looked better lately before he got hurt than he ever had before in the NBA to date. And that player looked like a real difference maker. So it was actually dictating terms, who's taking advantage of things, who's not trading off on all the things he does well by giving up points in other ways. I was just like really loving watching Zach E.D. play. And now I don't get to do that. The Grizzlies don't get to do that.

And they have to be, they have to be concerned about who he can be full time over whatever kind of role they envision for him. Yeah. Sometimes I think we get, you know, we talked about a guy having maybe a narrow, you know, I think maybe we were talking about Wendell Carter who didn't, the span of things that he did well. It wasn't super wide, but I feel like Edie's span is very narrow, but it's very strong. Like in Wonder, it's like if he catches the ball in the basket, not complicated, he's going to turn left, right shoulder, make a hook shot.

He's just big. He tries to dunk everything. I think he's a little more athletic than people gave him credit for throughout his college process. And I think that had he started to play a little bit more, I think the shooting touch actually is kind of sneaky, not bad. Like, I think it's possible someday. But it is a shame. I mean, it's to the point where you sit him, he's probably, is he at the rest of the year? is it or like, no, no, I don't think it's that severe. But do you go to that length, you know, those links for the precaution? Because it's just like,

if he's already, you know, damage the thing he had repaired in the off season, it seems like it's pretty, it's pretty scary. Yeah. On the flip side, such a coward is a guy I have flagged as a maybe. Now, lately the shooting hasn't been great. He definitely has slowed down since his meteoric start

where everyone was wondering whether or not he's the next Anthony Edwards. Definitely not me. I definitely didn't say that. No. He ain't dribbling like that. Don't listen to any previous podcast. the one thing I like in the midst of all the struggles is that he's still rebounding the shit out of the ball

last three games 12, 6 and 14 rebounds and in nine of his 25 games this season eight or more rebounds. I like that if things are not going well he's still got that dog in him and he's going out and contributing. That's great. That's great to see. I mean this is what separates a coward style prospect.

I said like he's a coward. Cedric coward type prospect from a Shaden Sharp type prospect. If Shaden is not hitting, well, good luck. tomorrow. You know, that's kind of all you got. If Cedacoward isn't hitting, I think he profiles as an interesting defender. The rebound is clearly already there. And there's just some

feel for the game stuff that I think says he could be a contributing facilitator, even if he's ever going to be like a point forward type per se. Yeah, I mean, he definitely guides. He's not necessarily a manipulator of offense, but he definitely guides the ball where it needs to go. The dribbling is the thing that I think is going to be a

threshold for him to. If he has a handling leap, he becomes pretty serious. I think in terms of a guy who could level up, The shooting has come back to Earth. Through the first, I think, like, month or so of the season, he had, like, the highest box plus minus. He and Khan did among all the rookies. So he was really playing an impactful basketball.

And I think you're right. He plays the right way. I think that Coward is going to absolutely be... He's nailed to the floor for the Grizzlies. I think that he definitely is going to be able to sort of, like, jive with whatever they choose to do if they get another star or whatever it is they do. A maybe is for you guys, probably too strong? Was he in consideration for a blue chip?

I mean, he's definitely a guy. But not a maybe blue chipper. I think with him, I think maybe is fair. He could be very special. I just don't want to yada yada, the part where he has to become special. And with him, he hasn't even really been asked to stretch out yet. You know, he hasn't even been given like a ton of workload as a rookie.

He's just had games where he's popped and he's had games where he's been active and engaged and obviously pulling down lots of boards. But it's not as if he is driving everything the Grizzlies are doing. And you can see the vision for first option, Cedric Howard. It's all still a little hazy at this point. I will say defensively he has been asked to do a lot. If you go down and look through his matchup difficulty, it is a, it is a who's who.

He's guard taking on a lot of tough assignments, and that's another area that I think he's going to add value in. So Wells here, also a guy. I love, I love Jailin Wells. I like Jailene Wells. I like him. Oh. Damning was a faint phrase. No, no.

Spritz. It's like, oh, in the right moment. My voice goes up. I like him. You know, other than that, you know, the guys that were banking, on the Gigi Jackson's. I mean, Vince Williams isn't in this category because he's too old for it. But like, those guys that they seem to have an abundance of all of a sudden, like, yeah, those were kind of fleeting moments.

Just a puff of smoke. Yeah. And now Omex Prosper is here doing, who knows what, the stuff that he does. We didn't even mention Gigi Jackson. Yeah. Which is interesting because I think he was really, really high on arcs. He was like one of the coveted prizes of the famous expansion draft last year. He seemed like he had the whole world in front of him.

And now he mostly has, like, riding the bench in front of him. in terms of the Grizzlies present tense. So it's tough. The Sonics are doing fun. Coward is definitely the buzz light year to his Woody at this point. I mean, he kind of is right. You're right. You're right.

All right. All right. Last one. Number 16, the Chicago Bulls. Great place to end up here. A couple interesting guys and a couple of guys, I don't know what to make of them. Sure. I guess. What have you learned about the banishingly small time we saw Noah Asengue this season, Justin?

Nothing. Literally nothing. I have him down as an asset. Therein lies the problem for us and the bulls both. You're out? Him as an asset? Well, I don't know what he is. Oh, right.

Thus, I don't know how to really evaluate it. I don't think we were going to know what he is this year. It was very long term. I think all I was hoping for was that over the back part of the season, he would be able to ease into some minutes and we would see some start of a progression from him. And it's a real bummer that he's going to be on the shelf for that and miss that opportunity. And then maybe have to delay it into next season and it's going to be even longer until we figure out what he is. Yeah.

I mean, and this is a key time for him for the types of challenges that he has, like, that missing time during this time is pretty critical. It's, it's that it gets late early in the NBA, you know, six total minutes in the league so far. I thought at least we would see him as one of those, you know, teenager, you know, like driving the stick shift like exotic sports car kind of thing, like where we'd be like, oh my God. Like I thought we were going to see moments like that with a lot of just wobbly, shaky, scariness and everything else. But we're not even getting the fun stuff. Because he was a major prospect before last

season, right? Yeah. Well, he was in this most recent draft. But in terms of his stock. Yeah, his stock was way higher two years ago and then last year it kind of fell, right? Yeah, I mean, it probably came down a little bit. I was always a little bit worried about him connecting the dots and I

remain in that camp, but I'm sorry, I veered us into an asengue ditch. This is a conversation about Josh Gidea modest. Well, absolutely. The last thing about San Gaye, the unfortunate thing is he was the guy picked right before Derrick Queen, and now that Derek Queen is taking off, you get all the screenshots of like,

could have gotten that guy. Which I did for like, I think Jaime Hakez the first year when they drafted, who was the kid from Indiana, the Lakers drafted, the ball handler. Oh, you're talking about the hyphenated name. Telen Horton Tucker?

No, no, no, no. Who we talked? Hood Schaffino. Oh, Jalen Hood Schafino. You could edit that however you want. No, I want the shot of Kyle's extended arms staying in. It's sort of a snore second side guy, kind of the Kobe Jones, like, oh. If you didn't get...

Doesn't do anything, put him on the second side. You know, like that. If you didn't get Queen or the trade package from Elena, it's pretty important. Kobe Buffkin, uh-huh. But Josh Giddy, obviously a maybe. Oh, yeah. He has to be. I think, no, I think he's a blue chip.

Legit, like, put him on the list. Oh, you're a blue chip guy. I think so. Oh, you're higher on Giddy than I am. Am I? But let me ask the hard. Let's ask the hard question here. If we're talking about a finals team, where does Josh Giddy fall in the pegging order of a final team?

Oh, I think we saw it to a certain extent with the Thunder. Did we? Two years ago. Couldn't hit the shots to play off of a real superstar. They weren't a finals team with Josh Giddy. No, they weren't. They became one when he left. I think the answer might, like this version of Josh Giddy, I still don't know where he fits on a really high functioning finals team.

But if you can get a team to a reasonable level of like even, an average offense with that level of playmaking and the way he kind of embraces it. I support that and I'm at least willing to put him on the list. He's a major contributor on a good fun team. That's the ceiling. Sometimes fun, sometimes good. But a title level team? Definitely not.

Third, fourth, probably. If he accepted a lesser role, some of these primacy insistent guys just lead you to think that they're more. But really, it's like they have to accept a different role on a title team. And it's like a Randall type. Like, Randall's the kind of guy like that. He's like, I'm a primary. And it's like, eh, you got some problems.

That's a good comp. But there's a sweet spot, I think, for Giddy that's somewhere between Thunder Giddy and Bulls Giddy. It's like you're still tapping into what makes him special as a player, but you're not tying your entire franchise to what he does and doesn't do well. He's one of the oddest players. And that's why I think the Rinal Cop is so good, where it's like the insulary skills he would need to play off of guys are his weakest part. But his elite skills aren't elite enough to drive 60 plus win. No. But he's still like an order of magnitude better than some of the other guys we've been putting.

as maybe's on. Like, we had Noah Clowny as a maybe. I love Noah Clowny. Be careful. He's not doing what Josh Giddy is doing. He's never going to have a moment where we're like a Noah Clowney-led team won, like, had like a 70% winning percentage. And guys like Ingram, Randall, Giddy's a better pastor than all

those guys. And a better surveyor of the floor. It's just his challenges, I think, are the thing that kind of compresses those guys into the same character. I think Buzellis is a blue chip prospect. It hasn't had the jump this season that I would have liked. But that's on me. That's my fault. Here's my question. And I unfortunately, I couldn't come up with a

cross-racial comp. So we are only human, ultimately. But could he be more athletic Gordon? But we just have to be resigned to being bound by race. We tried. Can he be a more athletic version of Gordon Hayward?

Well, this is where I remember one of the cross-racial comparisons for Gordon Hayward was, what if Gordon Hayward is Stephen Jackson? So what if Modus Vuzellis could be a more athletic Stephen Jackson? Yeah. Let's go at that. Or at least a length here, Stephen Jackson. We solved it.

I'm here to bail you out. Does that track, though? Because Hayward obviously... Word and Hayward is pretty athletic. Also shooting, like, rock solid from, like, what, year two? Yeah. Just instincts off the charts. And so it's a high bar.

But I see that a little bit in the way he moves, but he's going to be the better athlete version of that. If he's, like, dunking over the top of player, Hayward, even when he was healthy, more ground-bound, more crafty than anything. I think can nipples more of the Hayward type, which we'll get to that later, or has a chance to be. What is the highest vision?

What is the highest vision of Boozella? So you think he's, does he have facilitator vibes in his? I think so. Okay. In what, in what avenue? I don't understand the question. Like, what schematically, what type of basketball is he playing? I think, as a facilitator, it's mostly second side type stuff.

I think ideally he profiles as the second or third best player and creator on the team, but he's also really active defensively. who's also multi-positional. It's contingent on him being high up, like maybe the primary assignment guy on defense is what you're saying. So that's what we're talking about. I mean, that would be great. I don't even have that level of aspiration.

I think of him as like Andre Iguodala without the defensive Andre Iguodala. Like, can he get to that level? You know, not as not as purely athletic, but lanky and unconventional a way where he's still able to get to the basket. You don't want a running point guard full time, but maybe he could eventually be a guy who runs second unit offense.

I think that's within his, within his power to do ultimately. And you have him as one of your top 15 prospects in the league? No. Oh, but you said he's a blue shipper. I was going to say. I was just contemplating. That's what a maybe is.

We figured this out. We just have a different definition. Two hours into this podcast, we figured it out. I was trying to decide whether or not I'm going to kill you for mentioning Andre Aguadala in that terms of. Bring it up. What we got? Is that a maybe?

I just feel like the intangible tools of Bezellis haven't really reminded me of Andre Aguadala yet, but no. No, I mean, I'm not, I'm just curious. To be fair, I'm saying offensive Andre Aguadala, not defensive Andre Aguadala. Even still, like the point guard skills with Iguada, like they popped once he got into a lot. When he was extended into a primary role before, we were just like, that was he a star? What is he? And then it compressed into this beautiful, efficient thing.

It took 10 years for that to happen. Nobody was looking at Sixers, Andre Aguadala and being like, oh, my God, the point guard level vision on this guy. It's like, yeah, he can kind of do this. And it's taking some weight off of AI and the problem. other AI in the process, but I think that was a later boom in terms of getting to the nuggets and harnessing those skills, getting to the Warriors, and absolutely capitalizing on them. But the defensive stuff was like all, was pretty elite. I am not comparing Modis Bezellis as a defender to Andre O'Donogadal.

I want to make that very clear. I'm just trying to figure out where you are. That's why I'm asking you questions because you started the guy you were describing. You were like, well, not a primary guy. And I was like, okay, well, then a major defensive guy. You were like, I don't know about that. And then you said Andre Iguadala. I'm just saying.

I don't know. An all-around contributor who's a factor defensively, who's facilitating on offense, who can hit shots, and most importantly, drive and keep the offense and the gears moving. That's who I see him as being. So speaking of a player who checks none of those boxes, Patrick Williams, still on this list. 24 years old, this guy's in his sixth year. How? I thought he was 35. 35.

He has three more years left on his contract, by the way. After this one. Sweet mercy. It'll be a good deal eventually by the end of it. Will it? Will it? It's like 18 million. Oh, like a normal.

How much is the cap going up? By leaps and bounds, we hope. I can't believe it. But any of the other guys you want to talk about, Julian Phillips, Dalyam Terry, Trenton Flowers? No, I don't think I do. Okay. That's a podcast, baby.

All right. That's it for part one. Was that a Steve Rogers voice? A little bit. We'll be back tomorrow with part two, where we will talk about the 15 best young cores in the NBA and go through the first. the final list we have for our three teams of 15 top blue ship prospects in the NBA.

Thank you for listening. Thank you to Victoria Valencia. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely and Ben Cruz. We'll talk to you tomorrow. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-HELP.com.

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