The Ringer NBA Show - Young Players Who Could Be on the Move at the Trade Deadline. Plus: Players to Watch During March Madness. | Ringer NBA University

Episode Date: March 24, 2021

Kevin O’Connor, Jonathan Tjarks, and J. Kyle Mann start by discussing some of the young players who have been rumored in potential trade deadline deals (1:18). Then they talk about NBA draft prospects to watch during the rest of March Madness (43:53). Hosts: Kevin O’Connor, Jonathan Tjarks, and J. Kyle Mann Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Football season is never over. The Ringer NFL show has got all your football needs covered from free agency to the draft and so much more. Check out the Ringer NFL show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Basketball is very good. Welcome to Ringer NBA University. I'm Kevin O'Connor here today. As always, is our distinguished professor of small ball Jonathan Charks and our Dean of Basketball Video Research, J. Kyle, man. How are you guys doing?

What's going on? I'm good. How are you doing KLC? I'm doing really good today. What about you, Charks? Let's go on. You're enjoying March Madness so far? I mean wild times in the NBA and the NCAA. It's a lot to talk about. It's kind of crazy having March Madness happening the same time as the NBA trade deadline. This is unusual. This has never happened in our lifetimes before. Has it? You know, obviously with the delayed season. It's kind of fun. It's a lot to keep track of. Yeah, I guess you're right because it's the calendar. Yeah. I never thought about that. Yeah, I guess it is, it is, it is one. wild that it's hitting and and the fact that they're like yeah the format that they're doing with

this NCAA turn with the way it's like more compact i guess to get them out of there yeah it's it's dense it's like the tournament doesn't start again until saturday and so later on this podcast we'll be discussing some of the prospects and matchups to watch for but first thursday three p.m. Eastern is the NBA trade deadline so let's begin there talking through some of the latest reports and since this is ringer NBA university we're going to focus on younger players involved in those trade talks. And let's begin with Aaron Gordon from the Orlando Magic. The Celtics, Nuggets, and Blazers are the three main teams that have interest in Gordon.

And now it's being widely reported that it seems like two first round picks is the price for Gordon, who's 25 years old, averaging 15 points, seven rebounds and four assists while shooting a career high 39% from three. Charks, two first round picks for Gordon. What is it about his game that makes him so appealing to these teams? Why, and I think first off, it is funny because you don't think of Aaron Gordon necessarily as a younger player anymore because this is the seventh year in the league. But he is only 25. And that's what's so hard you got to keep in your mind with a lot of these guys you talk about.

We're talking about Julius Randall a couple weeks ago. Same kind of thing like these guys come in at 18, 19, and they're still only in their mid-20s when they start to move around the league a bit. And you just kind of forget the talents there. But Aaron Gordon, it's the hypothetical, right? We've seen him down in Orlando for like six years, playing the three, handling the ball, nish in the offense. It just hasn't really worked their expectations. And the hope is if you trade for Aaron Gordon, use more as a small ball big, more as a screener

instead of a ball handler in the pick and roll as a defensive stopper, that kind of like more of a Swiss Army knife kind of player. The hope is that version of Aaron Gordon can help a winning team as opposed to kind of the jacking up shots version of Aaron Gordon, Orlando, which is not really helping anybody. Yeah, I mean, he's still at an age where, and the real question, and KOC, you and Verno hit on this on the mismatch

is that, like, his usage, and certain players this is true of, their context can kind of put a strain on their efficiency, but, like, Gordon has grown a lot since he's been in the league. And Orlando, year after year, has been in this situation where they, in offensive rating, they've been in, like, the bottom five

of the league. It's just been a team that has been a little, a little stilted. They're a team that kind of, I always think about this metaphor that like, and this kind of applies to some people we'll talk about coming up here too, is that like he just hasn't been in an offense

that has had the opportunity to burn really hot and like to take pressure off of some of his areas where he maybe isn't the strongest, where he could play off of maybe some shock creators that can make his life a little bit easier and sort of, I don't know, just refine and limit some things that he could excel at And yeah, some winning teams could use him, I think for sure.

You guys both hit on the same note. He hasn't been in an ideal situation. And Charks, you mentioned the idea of him being used more as a screener, you know, playing with so many bigs over the years, including Vucovich, turning into the guy that he has as an all-star player, has really limited those chances. He also hasn't played with a point guard that can do that too. But like, what is it about Gordon's skill set that would make him effective in that role,

charts. I think it's two things. One, obviously the size, 6-9, very athletic. He's got the passing ability. He's 4.3 assists this year. So, like, when you combine, it's just hard to find guys 6-9 athletic with passing ability who can also defend. And so that two-way ability, it's just a rare skill set that teams are going to want to take a chance on, even if he hasn't really produced. And like you said, KOC, it's like, put him with a point guard, let him play in space. It's It sounds so basic, but it's never really happened for him in his career. So with that in mind, put him with a point guard, let him play in space. What you're describing is kind of like the dream on role, you know, where he's like screening

for Steph or even the Bruce Brown role, like we talked about on a recent episode with Brooklyn. Now we're seeing Blake Griffin in that role with Brooklyn, too, with Kyrie or James Hardin running that pick and roll. So, you know, we have Boston, Denver, and Portland. It seems like Boston. it's been widely reported could be offering something along the lines of Marcus Smart with two first round draft picks. With Denver, I was told, and it's been reported, their initial offer was built around bowl bowl. I've been told that's not enough for Orlando that they would want something more than that.

They'd want more picks, maybe throw an RJ Hampton into that, something like that. And I've also been told that Denver's trying to flip Gary Harris for an expiring contract in order to make it a three-way and get that facilitated. And with Portland, not a lot is out there. But when I look at Portland and I think about Damian Lillard and C.J. McCollum, the amount of picking rolls they've run, a release valve like Aaron Gordon, like isn't, isn't Portland the ideal fit? I mean, that's how I feel, Kyle. Like, where do you land with some of these potential destinations for Gordon? Yeah, I mean, that's kind of what I was getting at is that he's, he's probably better suited to be more of one of those like fulcrum creators that I've talked about, more of like, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, you know, the, the joint. in between two pieces where he can screen and he can roll and he can hit open shots,

but you're not depending on him to, you know, Orlando's offense has been like a crowded elevator the last, like the last five seasons. It's just there's not a ton of room to operate. And you're, you're putting him in a bad situation. I was just thinking, who's the best creator that Aaron Gordon has played with in Orlando? Who is it? Elford Payton. And not an, not an efficient ball and shoot. He played with Oladipo, I think, for a little bit. That's, I mean, they've had a lot of guards come through there over the years. But that's one. And then you need, you need multiple.

DJ Augustine, Markell Foltz. I mean, who else? Jerry and Grant. Then if they have, uh, Briscoe at one point, briscoe. Briscoe, right? Brisco back for a year, Kyle. Yeah. You're just rattling off people who are like downhill people who aren't efficient shooters.

And then they draft Cole Anthony. It's like, I mean, well, he's has a big asterisk next to him. Going off Kyle's point, I think this is important to. So the fulcrum thing, I think it's exactly right. But I think when Aaron Gordon came into the league, he didn't see himself that way. And that's what's so nice sometimes, like grabbing guys on their second team in their mid-20s. Because they've had the chance to try to do it their way, right? Aaron Gordon, you know, like most young guys, he wants to be all-MBA, all-wing Kevin Durant, right?

He doesn't want someone to be Draymond Green. So he has a chance to do that. It hasn't worked. Now on your team two getting him, now, man, he's lost a long time, right? his career has not gone where he's wanted to go. Now you say, hey, man, that role you thought was good for you, actually this role, if you buy into it now, now you're going to win this role, you're going to put up some good numbers,

you're going to win, you're going to get a higher profile. Let's go. That's the key. I think a lot of young guys, I think, you want to be the second team for them because they've kind of learned the hard way that what they want to do is not going to work. Are you holding a playing card right now? I do. I like to flip playing card sometimes.

Can I ask you a question? So if you had a deck of cards and you'd say, you know, Kevin Durant is an ace, you'd say LeBron's an ace, what would you say Aaron Gordon is in a deck of cards on a championship team? He's a joker. You kind of plug them in. I think that's a good way to put it. He is. Like you can use Aaron Gordon. Imagine Aaron Gordon on Denver.

You can have him in some high pick and rolls with Jamal Murray. You can have him running some big, big pick and rolls with Yokich and getting the preferred matchup that you want. want for Yokic. You can have him playing off ball, you know, spot up shooting, cutting to the rim, attacking closeouts like Jeremy Grant did for years there. It was very effective doing. And what he's always going to give you. And I think this is the most underrated aspect of Gordon's game because Orlando has not been good over the years. And it's defense. It's the defensive ability where two years ago when Orlando made their run to the playoffs and they lost in the first round, but they won a game. He had some great, great possessions throughout that run to the playoffs

against James Hardin against Kauai Leonard. He has shown versatility to defend different types of scores, different shapes and sizes, different styles. And if he could do that on a winning team for you, where he's not worried about getting those post touches, like you're talking about sharks, not worried about bringing the ball up the floor. If he can focus on the little things,

defense, rebounding, screening, picking his spots offensively, it makes a lot of sense to me why some teams are going all in with multiple first round draft picks. He is that type of guy who can elevate a championship team. But not all of us feel that way, right?

On this podcast. Do you guys not feel that way? No, somebody lurking in the shadows. That's right. Producer Isaiah Blakely, Celtics fan. Isaiah, you are not into the idea of Boston trading for Aaron Gordon.

Is there anything you would give up for him? No. I'd say before the show, I wouldn't give up my bottle of water for him. And obviously, like, Like that's hyperbole, obviously, but I don't think he's a very good fit. Like you guys mentioned him needing more playmakers around him. The Seleks are one of the lowest assists teams in the NBA.

It's a lot of ISO ball that I think he'd fall into as well. And I don't view the Seleks as a championship team right now. And so I don't like, is adding Aaron Gordon, do they beat the Nets? Now the series may be tight with the Sixers. I just I don't see the benefit in giving up one year your only leader currently in Marcus Smart plus two first rounders. I just I don't think it's a big enough addition. I mean smart that does seem high compared to the other packages being thrown around out there. Yeah, it's it's very interesting and like that is so out there to first round draft fix and smart.

It is so out there that sometimes I wonder how much of that stuff is real because it's so out there. But there are a lot of times where what's out there is the case, and that's the truth right now with Kyle Lowry. So let's move on to the Kyle Lowry trade discussions involving the Toronto Raptors. At this point, you know, we know Miami and Philadelphia are both in on Lowry. Wood reported late Tuesday night that Miami has shown restraint and how far they're willing to go in a deal, which aligns with what I've heard there. And this is a complicated situation because as Brian Winhorse from ESPN said earlier in the week, this is sort of like Lowry's free agency. You know, he becomes a free agent in the soft season at age 35 years old. He'll have a choice of where he wants to go.

But he kind of has that choice right now. I've been told he might as well have a no trade clause. It's kind of his choice where he wants to go. But, you know, with that said, Toronto obviously has a say in terms of what they would accept for him. And right now it seems like Miami is offering something along the lines of precious Ochoa and Duncan Robinson. They could also give up a Casey Yakpala, Kendrick Nunn. and then the Raptors want Tyler Hero. And then the Sixers could be giving up Matisse Stuybel or Tyrese Maxie and some first

round pick in there. And so a lot of the focus on this has been about like what does Lari offer to Miami or Philly. Let's look at it from the other side of it here. And it's what potential return is most preferred for Toronto. So with those names involved, in terms of desirability for the Raptors, Kyle, how would you rank like the top five players from this group that you would want if you're in Masayu Jerry's seat. What's your power rankings of some guys here? My first guy, and I guess as I was going through this, you just have to start thinking about

the things that you could easily replace. I mean, when you start talking about the value of these young players, what's the upside? What do I feel most confident about all obvious things, obviously? I mean, first, I mean, it's hero. And, like, I think you'd have to put hero number one for me. I have him one, too. two and three i got a little i got a little like i was i was like these are interchangeable but as i thought about it more and more i was like for what toronto does what they have a pedigree in

at first i had maxi too but i kind of lean precious too actually wow both over duncan robinson i have duncan four i have duncan four uh i mean we have the same top four that's okay we have the same as that's out four you're different sharks i have duncan robinson too I think it's pretty clearly above those other two guys. Okay, yeah. I mean, that's the interesting argument then, I guess, in this whole conversation. I mean, why would you say that, though? Yeah.

I think for, I mean, Robinson, talking about a 6-7, 6-8 movement shooter, I think he's not bad on defense. I mean, he moves decently enough. He's so long that sometimes I remember last year in the playoffs, you'd be like, oh, we're going to ISO-Dunkin Robinson. It's a 6-8 wing, even though he's not an elite athlete. Like, it's still hard to create a lot of shots on him. and that, I think, is much more valuable than I look at, okay, Tyrese Maxi, 6-3 combo guard, precious Chua.

I've never been a big precious guy. He's like a 6-8 scoring big man who's already lost a spot in the rotation. I'm just not really quite sure what he is, whereas I know Duncan Robinson can start in a finals team. I don't even see how that's even close. Yeah, I mean, you're comparing things in different stages too, which isn't totally fair because I'm looking at Maxie and I'm saying, okay, this guy has, and Doc Rivers has talked a lot about this, that he needs to night to night prove whether he's a score or a playmaker. And that's kind of been the question for him all along.

It's like, is he going to become a guy who is like, who can carry a big scoring load and become more of a creator and become an on-ball pressure guy? That's a pretty valuable thing. But then I just think precious when you, if you put him in that kind of environment, they have a pedigree of developing those types of players who maybe don't have as clear an identity.

And I think when you get to like 24, 25, you know, Precious could be a part of a winning environment. But Duncan, I mean, I see what you're saying. He's historically special. I mean, I even think we under, we underrate him a little bit how historically special he is. One thing, KOC, I'm curious about it's like with these trades. So on one hand, Miami you're talking about Tyler Hero and Duncan Robinson,

whereas Philly's talking about guys kind of at the end of the rotation, like, why wouldn't shake Milton be in these conversations? That's a good young player who's, you know, I mean, he's, if you can talk about Duncan Robinson, I'm not shake Milton. Well, that's the interesting thing here, Charks. You know, Shake Milton is 24. So he's on the slightly older end of, you know, what a young player might be.

Duncan Robinson turns 27 in April. And he's going to be restricted free age in offseason. And this is one of the reasons why I have him a little bit lower because he will be a restricted free age in this off season. We just saw Joe Harris get four years, 72 million. Will Duncan Robinson get somewhere around that? I don't know. Joe Harris is a more proven player over a longer period of time.

and it was different circumstances with Brooklyn and him entering restricted free agency there. But Duncan Robbins can get paid. Shooters get paid. And if you're Toronto, would you rather have the soon to be 27-year-old, soon-to-be highly paid 27-year-old over, you know, precious of Chua, you know, who could be a developmental project for you as a switchable player like Siakum-esque, you know, you helped him develop along. Tyrese Maxi, who is very, you know, very good potential pick and roll playmaker for you,

has some Lowry qualities to him, maybe bring him into the system. So the one thing that's clear to me, though, is your point there, Chalks, that Miami, a lot of the guys in the discussion are rotation players. Hero and Robinson were in a rotation on a finals team. Maxi and Thibel are, you know, more back at the rotation for Philly, which is why they'd be giving up a first round pick in any type of deal here. But it seems to me that on paper, Miami has more to offer. Do you guys agree, like they could offer more if they choose to. No, I mean, there's no question. Yeah.

Yeah, I think so. I would say too, about Duncan Robinson. I feel like if I have OG and Pascal, you can slide in Duncan Robinson right between those two guys. And I think that is a really nice three-so that complement to it really well. I'm curious what y'all think. Would you all take Tyrese over Malachi Flynn in terms of young? Because they're both in the same kind of bucket in the draft, the guy the Raptors drafted, the combo guard. that's an interesting thought there.

If you're Toronto, it's like, oh, we already get a solid young point guard to develop in Malachi Flynn. Flynn is 22 years old. So it turns 23 later this year in May. It's one of those things where we have the thing in front of us and we have the mystery thing. And it's like you just kind of have to go with Maxi, in my opinion, just because the upside is just, you know,

I could get there Malachi Flynn's that come along more frequently than Tyrese Maxis, I would say. You know, even though they both are in that realm of like, we could get these guys, you know, once more frequently, you know. Sure. Yeah, I think that makes sense to me there, Kyle. And for these teams here, with the discussion on Maxi, it'll be interesting to see how Philly, you know, operates here over the next day because I've heard that they're reluctant to deal Matisse Stivell. And there's some rumblings that maybe they prefer to move maxi, which makes sense. Like, you have Ben Simmons on the team.

You would be getting Kyle Lari, who would be absorbing a lot of the ball handling. be signing him to an extension. And so it makes sense there. And for Toronto, though, you know, do you feel like they should get Tyler Hero in a deal here? Does, should they demand that with the leverage that they have with Miami and Philadelphia, both really wanting Kyle Lari here? Or is there a deal built around in a Chua or Robinson that you'd feel more comfortable

taking if you're the Toronto Raptors? Like, what does it take if you're in Missai, Jury seat here? See, I would take Robinson. I'd be happy with that. I mean, here it would be great, but I'd be happy with Robinson. Yeah, it's, you're, you're just kind of weighing short-term windows and how often do these things happen. I mean, I feel like Philly is in a position where they are, they are, they have a lot of kind of conflating pressures, converging pressures that could, that could push them to want to do this and maybe painfully, you know, it's going to sting to kind of pun on younger guys earlier than you would like to. how long is this window going to be for Philly? How long is this window? I mean, I heard Verno kind of talking about that. How long is Jimmy Butler going to be this guy?

Those are the things that are going to weigh heavily into this. I mean, I would be really reluctant to give up Hero just because I do you think he's been getting knocked lately for his defense, but he's 21 years old. Yeah, he's a young guy and he's kind of the interchangeable perimeter piece. He's bigger than I think people realize sometimes. I would be really reluctant to give him up because Miami's a team. team that has shown that they can rebuild on the fly as well as anybody. So I would, I would really be tempted to just hang on to him. How about you, Charks? You know, if it comes down

to it, if Toronto says to you, you know, 250 p.m. Thursday, look, we're going to take the Philly deal unless you're giving us Tyler Hero instead of Duncan Robinson. And, you know, let's just say precious to true is in there, you know, maybe one first round draft pick. Like the price is getting high here for a 35-year point guard. But what's at stake is, is maximizing this Jimmy Butler, Bam at a BioCorps that just went to a championship and went to a game six and the window is open here. Like that's what's at stake and that's why the price has gotten so high.

And by the way, Lowry's 35, but he's still really, really, really, really good good player for the years to come. Unless he just, you know,

falls off a cliff here. That's the risk. Is he going to taper off or is he going to plummet? It's the question. And that's the fear for any, anytime someone's older. But that's what they do. They call you at 250.

What are you doing there, Charks? What's Norm Powell left? to like that's a guy i'd be interesting i think if i'm miami because norm powell is younger you've already got jimmy to handle the ball he's really killing this year he's

very very athletic he can guard multiple positions he can really shoot it now we can start let's start talking bacon about norm powell maybe we can find a middle grounds if we don't want to give up Tyler hero and you know i'm glad you brought him up sharks because also in that wood report last night he said philly's

also in on norman powell lonsal and George Hill. So they have some options besides Lari. Maybe they're using that as leverage too to say, hey, we don't need to give all this or Kyle Lari. We can trade for these guys, including Paul Powell, who's also on Toronto. But with Norman Powell, you mentioned me at a breakout season. What has he shown this year for this to be a sustainable scoring stretch for him?

Or would this be more of a sell high if you're the Raptors? Well, I mean, he is 28. This is the biggest role he's had, right? He's always kind of had to fight for his spot in Toronto. I mean, he's shooting better, shooting better than ever. I don't know. I mean, like, I think he's just kind of, he's 27, sorry. So, I mean, I think it's the prime of his career.

He's a very athletic Tugar with a good jump shot. Those guys, as the role increases, can do better. I don't see any reason to think he's going to fall off. I think his floor is really high, given his physical tools. That's a guy I would love to acquire, especially if I had a guy like Gene Butler, where I don't need another ball hand necessarily, right? he's running the point anyways. I can play Norm as my one and have him guard point cards and use his size.

With Philly, Kyle, the idea of them trading for Lonzo Ball. Does that make sense for them to go for Alonzo here? A younger guy that sort of fits the timeline of Embed and Simmons. How far would you be willing to go for Lonzo Ball if you're the Sixers? For me, I mean, I don't know about that, man. I mean, I kind of feel like, I feel like when I, Last night I actually texted somebody that, like, Powell seems like a guy that I would be more tempted to add, you know, because he's going to, he's going to continue to, like, sustain some of that defensive solidity that they, that they have.

I mean, that's their strength. They're going to be just a pain to play in the playoffs because they are so defensively flexible if they can add him. I don't know what the timetable for Embed to come back is. And I don't know how much that's going to affect their aggressiveness in this kind of situation. I don't know about Lonzo and Ben Simmons next to each other. something in my basketball brain kind of just doesn't really click with that. I just don't

know that I'm pro that mindset. Because I mean that it's two guys who don't shoot off the dribble, right? So it's like you kind of want to bring in a guy I can do that next to Ben instead of doubling down and kind of what Ben already does I think would be the idea. And really they need more of that downhill

presence, that guy who could run a high pick and roll for you. And Lonzo isn't that guy necessarily. He's more somebody does them in the open court. You already have been Simmons for that, the diminish the value of having Lonzo there. I mean, it'd be fun to watch, but I don't think it's the championship, you know, hand to play here for the Philadelphia 76ers. To me, that is Kyle Lowry. But with that said, Lonzo Ball has generated a lot of interest around the league. You know, he enters free agency as a young player for the Pelicans this off season,

the Hawks and the Bulls are among teams to express interest. I've heard that the Bulls are discussing a Lowry marketing for Lonzo Ball deal. How do you feel about that, Kyle? if you're the pelicans or why are or do you fall into the bucket of why are we even talking about trading a young guy in lonso ball i mean i think that lonso there's there's some interesting we're trying to build around zion ultimately whether that means we're getting rid of lonso whether i mean i'm personally willing to get rid of ingram that's a really harsh way to put it i'm willing to flip ingram for something that fits better because both i mean i'm everybody i mean i'm willing to move everybody i might i might hang on to carer lewis but i i think that like

Zion is kind of just running into some of the spatial challenges. You're going to have the similar spatial challenges that you have with like building around Janus and, you know, Bledso and Lanzo kind of have the same thing. It's just like when you have a threat like Lanzo, I want to make teams as uncomfortable as possible jumping into that into gaps when they're defending Zion. I want to make them really hesitant to do that. And with Lanzo's inconsistency, I just want somebody because, and we just, Zion has. gone through this every step of his career. When is he, when is he going to play with a dynamic offensive team that can, that can take pressure off of him? I think that's where you're building towards. So I think I would be willing to move lawns over that reason. I know that he's been better,

but we're talking about trends, you know, I want to, I want somebody that has DNA that I can depend on in that way. Is Marketing that guy? Markening fits the, the, the mold of what we've talked about in the past. I joked about putting Vucevich next to Zion. I mean, defensively, that would maybe be a little troublesome, but I mean, and I guess it's a similar conversation. If you, if you can put a stretch guy to get, you know, I just want to get as much open road in front of Zion as I possibly can and people that he could pass to. I think Markanin and Zion would be interesting next to each other. I don't know. 40% from three and seven attempts per game. That's pretty good charts. I'm still a Marketing believer. I have been for a while, but. I mean, I think it makes sense to

kind of worry about defense later almost in New Orleans because really you're waiting for Zion to defend and until he decides he wants to really start locking in on defense, you kind of got maybe focus on offense first. The Lonzo Nornstein thing is really, really interesting. It looked kind of doomed to start this season when he wasn't shooting his threes and teams weren't guarding him. He kind of lost his confidence. But now he's shooting better.

And it's just hard to, it's hard to know, like, how much should I value more pick and roll guards with Zion, right? Because, like, Lonzo was such a unique fit. He kind of needs to play off a more ball dominant guard. which didn't really have in New Orleans. So do you want to pay him this big salary when you're already paying Ingram? I can see moving off him in New Orleans.

I can see it. I can see why they're trying to do it. You know what I would be fearful of if I'm any other team besides New Orleans? The fact he'd be away from Fred Vinson, their assistant coach who is a shot doctor. He's like Chip England quality level. You know, what he's done with Zion already,

helping with his mechanics, what he's done with Brennan Ingram. him, what he's done with Lonzo. That's three guys in a matter of just a little over a year that he's really helped their shots develop quite a long way. And it's not the first time that we've heard him have a big impact on shooters. So with Fred Vincent being away from Lonzo, I think about sometimes... Just put him in the deal.

Yeah, put him... Start trading coaches. Problem solved. You've all got 15 coaches now. Be easier to move them around than ever before. This isn't like Moneyball where it's just like, I want that guy. I want Jonah Hill's character. Yeah.

No, they want to keep him. It goes from like David Griffin is talking about trade with Chicago about Lonzo. And they're like, well, what about Fred Vincent suddenly hangs up the phone? I think their interest in Lonzo would diminish at that point. We'll see what happens with Lonzo over the next day. It's a shame with his brother,

you know, having surgery on his risk out for quite a while now. Hopefully back. Charlotte's been so fun, man. Yeah, it's a major bummer, man. I mean, it's like it gives me something, one less thing that I want to watch every night. So I guess I'll be able to pay attention to it. There's a team every year that like kind of makes me unproductive, you know,

in terms of like, gosh, I really need to check in with this group. But I'm just like, damn it, Charlotte at Memphis. Got to check in on this, you know. I don't know. The inconsequential becomes fun. The Kentucky Wildcats this year, you had to always check in on them. All right, is that you trying to give a little dig to me there? Is that what that is?

I'm just saying, you know, they had a lot of interesting prospects. got to watch them. Yeah, purely why I check in on them, just the draft prospects. The team that's been fun to watch recently in the NBA that was just an eye sort of watch earlier in the season is the Atlanta Hawks. And they've been involved in some trade talks. Just mentioned they have interest in Lonzo Ball. There's been a lot of stuff out there about them with John Collins.

That seems to have quieted down in recent days. Yahoo Sports is Chris Haynes reported that the Hawks don't love any of the offers that they've heard. And I haven't heard a notable peep about Collins in a couple of days now. I mean, after hearing about the Kings, Celtics, Mavs, Pistons, Timberwolves. He said he wanted to stay, didn't he? Exactly. And he said he wants to stay, you know, yeah.

But, you know, it, it says something. You know, Aaron Gordon said last night, I'm frustrated. You know, John Collins didn't come out and say that. But with Atlanta, you know, the difference for them is it's not just about the quality of the player. Collins is averaging 18 points. He's an elite lob threat, 37% of three. There's not a lot of guys that are that good from three and that good on lobs, and that's great to have with Trey.

The Hawks reportedly offered four years 90 million before the season, 22 and a half million per. Collins wants the max. Four years, 126 million, 31.5 million per season. Big difference of about 9 million between what the Hawks offered before the year and what Collins and his team wants. If you're Atlanta, you know, what do you doing here, Kyle, moving forward with Collins? Because he's a good fit, but financially that might run you into some trouble if you don't feel like it's a championship core.

Where do you land with that? I mean, it seems inevitable that they're going to move him. I mean, because these guys and something that like a common denominator that I've noticed among the guys who just keep popping up into these conversations is they have like that offensive switchability, like role malleability between the four and the five spots and guys that. spread the floor like Gordon and now we're talking about Collins similar players really and then you're I think that Collins is probably a little bit more polished

ball skills wise and then I mean you've heard like Larry Nance is another guy that's come up a lot I know you love him KOC I love Larry Nance and I'd be interested creepy I would say it's creepy he's a switchable

defender who can shoot threes and pass and play in short role. I'm not talking. You just had a, you had a stalker by him there. If somebody wants to clip the way he said that, you can decide for yourself.

That's, that's fine. I just thought it had restraining order on it. You know, it's what it sounded about. My love for Larry Nance as a basketball player is unmatched. Oh, God.

So I think you have your crushes that you stay on. And I really, I appreciate that about you. You're a loyal guy. But I think that's, and I do too. It's, it's an interesting question.

of value for me across the league because you hear these teams that are interested they're like man we really could add and i'm just wondering like what do you think it is that those guys have in common do you think that that like those types of players do they really give you like a type of lineup flexibility that teams see as like super attractive like Collins and Gordon i mean what what do you guys think about that specifically in terms of what they provide what it is what is it about them specifically aside from the fact like they you know just like big picture is there is there something in common that good teams want or reason why? Well, I mean, I wonder if it's almost the other way, right?

Is why are they available in trades, you know? That's a good way to put it too. Because, right? Because teams are interested because those are the guys that are out there, right? Six, nine. I guess it's the classic, like, are you not a, it's almost like, you know, these guys, they're not centers. Can they be true stretch fours, all that stuff?

I'm not sure. It's a good question. I guess what the Hawks and Collins is like, If he wants a max, that's his beauty of being an RFA, right? If you want a max, then you're free to go get one and we'll match it and figure it out from there. I don't know that they're just going to let a guy like that walk for any reason. I mean, they're the fourth seed in the east right now. And I mean, they're upside before the season I thought was a lot higher.

So it's like, you know, this all could balance out. When are they going to be at full health again is another question? Yeah, Gallo's questionable for tonight. But they're mostly back. Cam Redish has been out with some kind of Achilles thing. and then DeAndre Hunter came back. That's the big one. So they're finally getting all their pieces back and going.

And it just doesn't seem to make any sense when you've been so bad as Atlanta has been for so long to blow this team up now by trading Collins. I mean, they got to ride this out a little bit. I mean, let's go to the playoffs to see what happens. We're winning games now. There's no reason to start overthinking this. Assuming some of the chemistry stuff has, like, lower to a simmer.

Like, because they, I mean, they were pretty volatile there for a little bit. But I wonder if, like, maybe switching up the coaching situation, that's a factor too that we can't comment on I guess. And I'm with you, Kyle, that I think with them it seems like things are good right now. And as long as things are good, you know, the front office and coaching staff feels it's good, then there's no reason to rush and make a deal. But I do think it makes sense to at least explore here because it seems like, you know, with the play in tournament, you have the seven and eight seeds that can face the nine and ten seeds.

The top six seeds in each conference are locked into the postseason. So seven to ten will have to fight for the two final spots in the playoffs. but more teams have an opportunity to get in. So with so many buyers, maybe you do try to be a seller. And that's what stuck out to me with this Indiana Pacers report on Tuesday from Vincent Goodwill from Yahoo Sports. He reported that multiple teams are saying

the Pacers are listening to pitches on Malcolm Brogden and they're monitoring DeMontasabonis as well. And there's been some stuff floating out there that I mentioned on the mismatch on Tuesday that's been reported elsewhere, that Nate Bjorkren, their first year head coach, you know, there's been some ups and downs in terms of the locker room in terms of chemistry in terms of his coaching, him figuring out how to be a first year head coach. And so with Indiana, does it make sense to at least listen and explore with a guy like

Sabonis and Brogden two very, very good players, especially Sabonis, a former all star in this market, considering the fact that maybe you can get a team to way, way over pay. I mean, like, what do you think about that, Sharks, from Indiana's perspective? I mean, I think it makes sense. They're 19 and 23. They're the 10 seat in the east right now. They've got a ton of talent. It's clearly not 100% clicking. They've had some injuries. They haven't had TJ Warren all year. But they've also been shopping Miles Turner for like two years. And he's a really good player. So if you can put a Miles Turner out there, I don't necessarily see why you couldn't put out Sybino's in Brogden and see what's available. Like this team needs a spark. Yeah, you're in good, not

great territory and you're in the east where it's just like the inevitable thing that that you have to think about is what who do we have to go through there are teams that they couldn't go through right now it's just not going to happen so yeah of course you listen i mean you have some guys kosy like you were saying like sabonis has value that i think could even be amplified in different contexts like depending on who your personnel are um and the lavert at as an initiator thing i thought was really interesting. I mean, if they, what, what was it your quote about, like, Levert and their plans on him or how they're seeing him? So Vincent Goodwill reported that, you know, if they were to trade Brogden, then that they view Karras Levert, quote,

as a player who can man the point guard adequately enough should they get a real deal for Brogd. That's a goodwill wrote. I think, you know, that's what the Pacers say or believe internally that Levert can take that on. Do you think that's just funny, that's a funny phrasing. I like that. He could, he could man it and be as a. It's not exactly effusive praise. Charks could man a spot on this podcast and adequately get by, but really we're hoping that Joe Rogan becomes available. I mean, it's not, I'm kidding.

I'm kidding. Jonathan Charks' experience. It's not exactly a sell. You'd think they'd be like the Michael Scott, like, oven mitt thing, be like, oh, yeah, Leverts incredible. Yeah, anyway, but yeah. I'm for what it's worth, but I paraphrase part of that. The quote is, on Brogden and the Bleachman.

as the Pacers' field, Caroussworth, can man the point card adequately. I love that idea. I mean, I love the idea of a big initiator at one. I mean, but, but yeah, I mean, and too, man, coaches get blamed quickly. I mean, we've seen this even with really great teams, like where players have a lot of power and you start getting a little uncomfortable if like the fit isn't quite working well.

I mean, at one point, didn't Kyle Lowry get super mad at Maasai at one point? I mean, these things just kind of happen and they leak out. now he has great credibility with him. I don't know, but maybe it's worse than we know. I don't know. Yeah, Kyle, I think the Lavert thing is interesting, because that's when he's been at his best on the ball. If you go back to the Brooklyn days,

there was always a thing like, is this Karis Levert's team or DeAngelo Russell's team? And then it kind of became clear by end of that series against the Sixers. No, Lavert's the better kind of initiator. But then they got Kyrie Irving. It didn't even matter anymore. It became like, why don't even care about this question? I think Lavert is best to you.

He's not a guy that I'm like, okay, I need you to carry like a really heavy load here. And we're going to center everything around you. I think Lavert is most crippling to try to plan for when you're mixing him in because he is such a talented score. I mean, we've seen it that like when you're mixing Lavert in with other players who are capable, who can handle some pick and roll load and things like that, I mean, he just becomes a nightmare because you can't focus on him. You can't sell out to focus on him. And we've seen him. He has the upside, the volatility to kind of go up into that like all-star scoring level on some nights.

Like he could do that. So, but yeah, I really, I like Leverick. I'm high on Lerick. Houston might be regretting not picking Leverto or Ola Depot. They had a choice. They could have. And they chose Ola Depot there. And I mean, one of the reasons why I was probably way to either keep him a long term or flip him.

If he improved his value, he has not improved his value. So that's a shame for Houston. and for Indiana, I'd hold on through this, ride out the storm, you know, enter the offseason, and then evaluate them. So bonus is too good to deal right now. But listen, you know, you listen. You listen. I mean, you never know if someone's going to offer you like all their first round draft picks

and all their pick swaps. So bonus, I mean, do we agree that he's not the level of player where it's like you just hang up the phone? He's a level or two below that, right? Yeah, I mean, I think he's, I guess it comes down to how much you think he can grow. I mean, defensively, he's been kind of roasted a lot this year, like on the ball. His foot speed has kind of gotten exposed, and I think teams are maybe going to potentially go at him more in that sense.

But, yeah, I don't think that he's quite on that level. I think that he's somebody who's made a lot with, like, what he has. I guess that's sort of a downplaying kind of crude way to put it. But, yeah, I don't think that he's quite on that level where you're just like, no way, no how. Yeah, I'd listen. We got tweeted out by a listener the other day at Kai Santana, the pretty good question. And he asked, who are the by low young guys that you'd target right now

in a trade ahead of the deadline? And, you know, Kyle, we've seen Marvin Bagley as a young guy and a, you know, shaky situation involved. Does he fall into that buy low category for you? You know, Bagley is, to me, entering a discussion that I never, he's entering a discussion zone that I never thought would happen personally. And one of my, one of my all time just kind of like misjudging's was Bagley. And I've just been surprised with how his career. is gone. Now, he's kind of had off and on health. For me, what really raised an eyebrow for me

was the other day they were talking about, I think, they said the Pistons were like, no, we're not trading Sadiq Bay from Marvin Bagley. And that just triggered me and flagged, like, is Bagley, and tell me if you guys agree with this, or gauge this for me, how dangerous is this Bagley situation?

How much in danger is it of like going off of a cliff to where he becomes one of those former lottery guys that just starts to journey? Like, I don't know what I would give up for him, honestly. Because the question marks have started to pile up so much. And in like studying tape of different prospects and things like that, it's become defensively.

It's just become a joke. Like, I mean, everybody takes him off the dribble. I was watching a Knicks game the other night where Julius Randall just like, I mean, he just abused him. He destroyed him. And it's like he's had a hard time not being compartmentalized, like what he provides offensively. he's just been, yeah, a weird fit with Fox from the jump.

It's a tough situation for the Kings. Like, how close are we to danger zone, do you all think, like talking about what I just said, where he's going to become one of those guys? Danger is definitely going to happen. Like, it's not even a question of danger zone to me. Like, that's for sure the outcome. It's over.

You think, do you think he is, like, officially going to become, like, the Greg Monroe type? Well, I wouldn't go that far, but, like, I just think, when you look at it, there's a new front office, right? They have no ties to the guy. His dad's already asked him for trades. He's going to be up for a deal pretty soon. They're not going to pay him.

He doesn't feel what the players they have. He clearly needs a fresh start. I mean, like, all everything, every check, every flag, Kyle. Like, it's all 100 miles hour ahead. Like, that's all lining up. And I just think Bagley's the guy, as I was talking about earlier in the show, like, in two or three or four years, I would love to grab Marvin Bagelgan on his third team, be his fourth team.

Maybe then I think he might be ready for the role he needs in the NBA. But I think I think it's definitely going to happen. Bagley's one of those guys that like you said earlier, Charks, you want them on their second team or their third team. And maybe at that point they'll be ready to answer Kai Santana's question, the guy I'd target. No surprise. Mo Baba gave all the draft picks,

all the young players to go get Mo Bobba. K. If I was Orlando, I would go after a time lord. Like maybe we could flip something like that. Oh, yeah, yeah. Time Lords. Baba and Gordon.

Okay. Are they going to hear it? Let me try to sneak. I don't think so. But I would love to sneak in Time Lord in one of those conversations. To your point, if you're Orlando, that's what you're trying to do. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, that's cool. Yeah, I'd like to trade for a nice new Corvette, but that's not going to happen. Like, my car won't go for that. I still. I'm not to trade for a Tesla. That's what I want to go for. I like Tesla's too. I want one.

Model X. Yeah, I like, I still can't believe Robert Williams fell. in that draft. I was watching that just in total disbelief because, you know, but I guess it's a good thing that he went to the culture that he went to. And from what I've heard, KOC, you can comment on this. I mean, they seem to really like him. And I can see why. He's a mobile guy and he's, I think he still has even more upside to go, honestly. They do get the Celtics really like Robert Williams, Time Lord. He's just known as Time Lord. That's his name. Now it's time for the State Farm, surprisingly great segment of the week. Just like State Farm has surprisingly great rates, March always brings some of the

biggest surprises in college basketball. Guys, we've had some surprises in the opening two rounds of the NCAA tournament. What stood out most to you, Charks, is the biggest surprise? I mean, my Texas Longhorns losing to Abilene Christian. Let me tell you, that was shocking, cutting, all the above surprising. Shock-up. Yeah. Man.

Well, I think it, Charks, I think it's a pretty pressing question for Texas now is the Shaka thing. I mean, are we like, is he trying to find a new location or Texas fans? They had a decent season. Are they wanting to keep Shaka, keep him hanging around? What's the situation? You're shaking your head? So my guy, Shaka, you want to guess how many NCAA tournament games he's won since the Final Four in 2011? Zero.

That's right. You want to guess how many conference titles he's won his entire career as a coach, regular season conference titles? How many? Zero. Wow. So I think we're good with Shaka. I think we gave it a shot. He had a great run when he was the underdog.

He kind of went to the big school. It hasn't worked out. And now we're still on the other side of it. We're looking at all these other small schools winning games and be like, man, let's just win one. Orle Roberts won two games. He can't win one. And then you get La Loya, Chicago,

winning again, going to another Sweet 16. Sister Jean making another run. Yeah, Loyola, I mean, they've been good the last few years. And I feel like it's one of those things that it's surprising. But if people pay close attention, I mean, they've had one of the better defenses for the whole year. They play really well together. They're an example of if you have guys that really buy into a scheme and you come up against people who aren't prepared or maybe overlook them that they can beat you, man. And they have some talent.

I mean, yeah, I mean, Loyola's been really fun to watch. it was a different kind of surprise. It wasn't surprising they won. It was surprising they beat the heck out of Illinois, like the number one seat. They just dominated them from start of the game to the finish. And they do have a lottery prospect on their team, don't they, Kyle? Well, I mean, this has come up a lot. Yeah, Cam Crutway get one of the best haircuts and mustache combos.

That kid is just a joy. He's anyway, but I mean, Baby Yokic, he's just an amazing, like, Maybe Yokic. I was saying if he could drill that 15 footer, man, they might have beaten Illinois by 20. Like, seriously, he was, he wasn't even taking that shot. And he was still killing them. I mean, he was killing Kofi Kovirn. Just a really, really, you know, high IQ facilitator.

And he has that kind of slow motion game. They were running some of those elbow actions where he was throwing those long bounce passes to cutters. It's just gorgeous. I mean, if you love pretty basketball, like that where people are playing hard, offball and like that. He's just one of those players that's fun to watch. Kyle, pretty basketball and not pretty players. That's what we're about here on.

But my biggest surprise is moving Cameron Cruttwig up to number one on my NBA draft big board, but that's March madness. The big board of our hearts. Whether college basketball surprises go your way or not, you can count on getting the personalized service of a local State Farm agent for a surprisingly

great rate. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. All right, now let's talk about some prospects that actually have a chance to be drafted in the top five. One of them, Kate Cunningham bounced in the second round. Evan Mobley from USC still going. Jalen Suggs from Gonzaga, still going. Cade Cunningham guys, 15 points on 3 or 14 in his first game,

24 points on 6 of 20 in the second game. Those are some Jordan Crawford stat lines. Charks does his performance at all changed perception of Cunningham as the number one pick in the draft? I think it shouldn't, if he's been watching. watching him carefully this season because it kind of played into some stuff we've been talking about in the pod before. So it really like as I, the more I watch Cade, the more I just think of him, he's the guy, he lets the game come to him. He's a make the right play guy, make the extra pass.

I get into the lane double team. I'm going to pass it out. He's not a, he's not a guy who's like a forceful score. He's a guy who makes the right play and kind of lets the defense dictate how he's going to make the move from there. And in that in those two games, both team, Liberty and Oregon State. They're like, your teammates can't shoot. We're just going to swarm you in the paint. And what are you really going to do? And he really couldn't.

There was just no answer for that. So his teammates shot, I think he was like 20% from three in both games. And he just had a force-up shot. Maybe it was where I can't, I have here is five for 25 in those two games combined. And like with no space on the floor, they're just crowding him.

He's eventually having to force up shots. It's not really his game forcing up shots and traffic like that. that. And I just think, Kate is great. Those are these weaknesses. We saw them exposed, but in a different setting with more NBA talent around him, it shouldn't look like that. Yeah. I mean, they're loading up on him. And he has some of that, he has some of that, like, Luca, Dennis Smith Jr. thing going on with like some of the, there's like role dissonance going on where players aren't, aren't like understanding. We saw some of that. And I mean, it touched the ball down the stretch, Kyle. Yeah. I mean, I was, I was like, you know,

tweet and saying that I need, I need you to kind of like, you know, put your, put your offensive muscles on the table here a little bit, Kate, and just saying like, all right, it's my time, it's my time. But I mean, your teammates kind of have to defer to you in that way. And I think it's his personality like, a lot of this lines up with questions that we've asked in the past. It's kind of like that is, is Kate a full-blown heliocentric prospect? He very well could be still, like, but I think he could still be a like supremely good NBA player, even if he's not to that level, that Harden Luca, I have to go get mine right now. But I think that, you know, just because the numbers were inefficient, I'm not really worried about that. I think you get him in a situation where he has

capable people around him and he's going to be, he's a floor raising player. I still am bullish on Kate Cunningham. So short answer for us is no, it shouldn't change perception. But with that said, Charks, you wrote a big feature. And we talked about him recently, Evan Mobley from USC. Has he shown anything in the two games so far or is there anything he can show in the Sweet 16 with USC and moving forward potentially that could make him really, really push for not just being number one in that conversation, but like kind of the clear-cott guy. Is there anything he can show? I think he's already shown it to some degree.

Like Evan Mobley is a great player. I mean, like, Cade's great too, but I feel like sometimes you get into this whole like, it's Cade and everybody else. To me, it's Cade and Mobley and everyone else. Like I just think Mobley seven foot can guard the entire floor. I think the scoring, it's like with K a little bit too. Mowgli's also guy who likes to pass a lot. I mean, I think in the, in the Kness game,

is actually his older brother who shot, took more shots, Isaiah. So, like, it's the same kind of thing, actually, where Evan is like, I'm making the right play. I'll take the shot when it's there. But if it's not there, I'm going to move the ball. But the more you watch Evan Mowley, the more impressed you should be because he's just that good. Yeah.

I mean, he has definitely answered a lot of the questions that I had in terms of, I was wondering about in space what his north-south speed, foot speed would be, you know, because he has, he's not like a twitchy, really quick kind of athlete in the way that, like, Janus is physically built similarly to Evan, but like Evan's not quite the same twitchy type guy. And I think that, I mean, he has a wingspan of 7-4 or 7-5, depending on who you're asking, a 9-foot standing reach. The key thing about that is how quickly he gets to his high point. And he affected the whole first half of that last tournament game that they had.

And I just think that he could be a high level positional defensive anchor. I think we're to the point. We're in this draft. If you end up with either one of those guys, you feel pretty damn good. Like I think Mobley is a special point. And with Mobley, some of the raw go-to scoring qualities that could manifest over time are pretty, pretty appealing. If you're drafted high to have a big who can shoot off the dribble, that that's really the difference between a lot. lot of bigs can shoot threes now a lot of bigs can finish at the rim there's still on a lot of bigs

that can create their own shot off the dribble and evan wobly has flashed that ability with some turnaround jumpers he likes the spin move in the lane if he can extend that range out over the course of time you could have a pretty devastating player on the offensive end who also is unselfish and is willing to be the second guy and a lot of people look at that as a negative like i I wish you would demand the ball. Is it really such a bad thing to have a guy and a winning team that's like, some nights I'll get 30, some nights will get 12, and either way I'll be happy. I look at that as a positive quality from Mobley when it's so rare that you'd have a big

man who would carry your offense. I think it's a good thing. Yeah, and he's shown, I mean, Kansas, the defense really intrigues me the most, but I mean, like, Kansas was terrified of him. And, like, physically what I was noticing too is, man, just to get guys who have that, like, balance and, like, physical, like, deceleration around the rim to finish. I mean, he can just, he can just, he can get to the rim, like, his ball skills are strong enough and, and then, like, kind of stop on the dime. I talked a lot about, like,

how Embed does that, like, big guys that can do that with control. You just, you're getting a two-way thing that you just don't get out of, out of six, eleven, seven-footers very often. The thing about Mowgli to me, this is a guy I could see getting better every year for, like, eight, nine years. Like, that's when you have a really elite seven-footer like that. Like, he's not as big right now. He's kind of skinny. He's going to grow into his body as he develops his jumper. It opens up his ball handling game.

And that's going to come really slowly. But seven footers like that, you can draft Evan Mobley. And like in 2030, he could still be getting better. Like that's the kind of prospect, the kind of player he is. Like that's in my head, like I've been thinking for a while, I think Cade's going to be a better player for a while. But I would not shock me. If Cade's the hair, Mowbly's the tortoise. In the late 2020s, all of a sudden, here he comes.

Is there any chance of Jaylen Suggs from Gonzaga being the tortoise, Kyle? I mean, we agree on Jalen Suggs. I mean, I think he's going to be the praise that we've given to these three guys is really high. I mean, I think that it's a good draft. It's a good draft. I think those top three for sure. I mean, like, I overall, I was talking to somebody, I overall have kind of come down on this draft as a whole. But I think that like in those top three spots, you're getting three guys that are going to be like very,

very high quality NBA players like two stars i mean i think that sucks is going to be in the NBA for a long time and a guy that gives you a lot of quality things and you watch gonzaga my god like what an embarrassment of riches that team like to have nim heart and sugs that you can just interchange and throw out there and then i wanted to say this stat really quick gonzaga has two of the top five most efficient overall players over 300 possessions and kispert and timmy they're just unguardable they're like 2018 villanova but i mean yeah sucks should sugs is there a world where in 10 years from now is Suggs the best of those three, I would lean no on that. I mean, just because I agree with Charks in terms of like the growth plates on,

on, on, on, on Mowgli's game, he doesn't lean on anything that is like a bad habit. Like if you watch just his positional intelligence defensively, he's a guy that's going to play for a long time and be really good, I think. Absolutely. And, you know, similar with Gonzaga, like Suggs will play a long time. Corey Kispert, their knockdown shooter is improved defensively. I mean, he's better athletically than he gets correct. at four. He's constantly gotten better

each year in college. He finds himself now in the lottery. KOC. What's up, Chuck? Would you call Kisperts sneakily athletic or deceptively athletic? Which one is? Neither. He's a nose for the ball. He puts his lunch pail. He gets his lunch pail

and goes to work. He's a gym rat. He's a grinder. He hustles. Cerebral player. You know, who is a hustler? Scotty Barnes from Florida State. And we're going to see. we're going to see a pretty good matchup with him against Wagner from Michigan in the Sweet 16. Is that if NBA fans are like, I can turn on one college basketball game,

is Florida State, Michigan, the game that they should watch from a draft perspective with Barnes versus Wagner? I mean, it's definitely the matchup. I mean, if you look around the Fleet 16 and try to find two high-level NBA prospects going at the same position, that's the two. And those, I think, are the most compelling matchups because, especially for a guy like Franz Wagner. He's in the Big Ten. He's six, nine athletic combo forward.

There's no NBA guys he's playing all year. This is his chance against another guy at his position who's going to be, he's going to go from playing Scotty Barnes once a year to 80 times a year. So let's see how he looks in this matchup. That I think is going to be really telling for him. Sounds like this is a maybe not quite a make or break game, but it is by far the best test for Vodgner. against Scotty Barnes, who, you know, for him to, uh, in some ways, Scotty Barnes, I think is a little

bit underrated. You know, he has some severe limitations as a score, but I look at him as a guy who's a passer, a guy who never stopped trying on defense. Like we talk about hustle. Like, he constantly brings it. And he could be a versatile, switchable defender for you, can handle a ball, some D.HOs down the line, I like Scotty Barnes, but that's going to be a good test for Wagner. Is there any other thoughts you have on that matchup, Kyle, what you're going to be watching four. I have a question for you actually. Because you were just talking about those four fives and like the different skill sets than the NBA. That's my recent thing that I love. Is this Scotty Barnes? Is that what this is? That's my recent thing. Yeah, I love those guys. Yeah. I mean, is there a world

where I've weirdly just kind of been in a position to watch Barnes for a while? Like, I watched him with Vernon Carey in high school a little bit. He's at an interesting evolution. At that point, he was just like jacking up too many shots. Like I was just really frustrated watching him. He's evolved into this guy that like, is there a world where, yeah, charts, but is there a world where he could evolve into like a big market smart type, like a guy who is like your your, your offensive, your defensive engine, I just think he's going to play on good teams. And I think that good teams are going to value people like Scottie Barnes because he can add plus value in some areas, you know, and he gives you playmaking too. And I mean,

if he ever gets to the point where he is a dependable shooter, I was just going to ask you guys. I think I'm higher on Barnes than the average person. The jump shot. That's the one thing for me with Scotty Barnes. It's just so hard these days guys don't shoot. Is there any other matchup charts that stands out for you in the Sweet 16? I mean, we should probably talk about Max Asmus, from Jesuit High, my rival high school,

O'Rill Roberts. Against Moses Moody, right? Yeah, Arkansas. I mean, I imagine Arkansas trying to pressure Asimus, get the ball out of his hands. He's obviously had a great tournament. I mean, he's kind of the, I guess he's like the face of the tournament so far right now, right? I'd say Croutwick's the face

of the tournament. Yeah, I mean, Amos is an interesting player. It's just that he's a little skinny and he's fitting into that like volume like you said Jordan Crawford. I mean, he's an efficient like a willing passer, but you know, a streaky lather score. I mean, he's put it on two high majors in a row. They couldn't stop him. It's just kind of, yeah. Moody will be a good test.

He will. Arkansas has a number of perimeter defenders that could, they could throw at him. And that's going to be a fun game to watch. If Avesmas has a big game, you know, against Moody, who is a lottery prospect, you know, likely going to go maybe in the top 10, definitely in the lottery, though. That could put him on the NBA draft radar. So we'll see about that. That'll be fun to watch.

We got Cameron Crotwig versus the world. I look forward to that. That's going to be exciting. Kyle, do you have an NBA comparison for Crotwig? You mentioned light Yolkitch earlier. Yeah, I was thinking Larry Bird was another one. No, he made, you know, defensively it would be a challenge for him. but I mean, if he was in a different body, I mean, absolutely he could be.

I mean, he's talented. I don't know. That's a horrible thing. So who is your NBA cop, Kyle? No, no, no body shaming on this podcast. I don't think I have. No, it's not, it's not body shaming. Not Julius Randall?

No, no. Wouldn't put him up there. I would just say that like Crutwig is. Do you want to plug your Julius Randall video though? Crutwig made it a touch pass in that past game against Illinois that almost made me weep. It was beautiful. It was birdess. He's a, he's a talented.

asser. He's a smart player. Yeah, I mean, recently I put out a Julius Randall video just kind of talking about his improvement offensively what's happened, why it's happened, how it's affected his overall game. And then he went out last night and kicked ass. So I appreciate that. I look forward to your Cartway video five years from now. That's going to

be fun to watch. Rookie reports next year. It's more, it's been more like a documentary series, probably, you know, six hours. No big deal. Life to life and times. Real quick before we go, let's go around and let's each name one other player non-lottery prospect to watch.

Just, you know, throw the name out there. Who do you got, Kyle? Oh, can I do two? Or can I do too quickly? Sure, there you go, yeah. Okay, okay. First one is Chris Duarte from Oregon. This is a guy who took like an odd path.

He's 23 years old. I joked about this in our video. We dismissed guys like that often, but he's 23. He was one of the most efficient offensive players in America this past year. I have questions about him. I think he's a guy that could scale up in terms of like how you could use him as a shooter. He shoots a really easy ball. He can relocate really well?

I think the question for him is like can he evolve into somebody who is an off ball creator off the catch and traffic? He looked a little shaky at times to me. But, you know, he's big. He's he's 6'6. He shot 42.8 from 3 on 5.5. 3 point attempts for Oregon. Good player. I like him.

Another guy that I think that could be another type, like someone that could hang around in the NBA for a while is Jeremiah Robinson. Earl for Villanova. He's built like a truck. He's always around the ball. He shoots an easy three ball as well. I think he's somebody that can, you don't need, he's not going to have a big appetite for like a role that maybe he's not qualified for.

He's just, I think he could be, I think he could end up being a quality role player in the NBA. Who do you got, Charks? I'm going to go with Davy on Mitchell from Baylor. He's kind of been the key to them going from a good to just a great, great team this year.

He's like the 6-2-200-pound defensive pitch. Hitball who's really kind of found a three point shot. He might be one of the best athletes in the draft. He kind of plays on and off the ball for them. And just he's like your classic new model, like combo guard. Like if you have your big Ben Simmons type player, he's kind of one of the possible like types of players next to that.

If you're going to put an elite athlete, elite defensive player who can knock down threes and make just enough plays to make the offense run. So Philly should be trying to get him is what you're saying. He's got, he's a Philly kind of player. for sure. I get his teammate, Jared Butler from Baylor, shot 41% from three this year, 38% in his three years of Baylor. Good six three guard, good ball handler can create a little

bit for you. I liked him in the draft last year before he pulled his name out and he's gotten better this year. I look forward to seeing how him and Mitchell and all these guys do moving forward in the tournament. Baylor has like a 3D printer where they just print those guys. I swear. These like really athletic combo wing types. Anyway, they do. Guys, this is fun. We got a lot. Trade deadline on Thursday. NCAA tournament back on Saturday. And we'll be back in two weeks. It'll be after the tournament, right?

Yeah, that'll be after the championship game. Right, right after the championship game. So we'll be back in two weeks, two Wednesdays from now with another episode of Bringer NBA University. Guys, this was fun. Yeah, good stuff, y'all. Love talking to y'all. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely for producing today's show and for offering his take on the Celtics

and why they should not go for Aaron Gordon. And thank you for listening. please do us a favor. Give us a five-star rating on iTunes, follow us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Hope you have a fun rest of your day. Basketball is very good. Basketball is very good.