The Ringer NBA Show - Young Talent, Veteran Exposure, and How Highlight Culture Has Killed Basketball | Off Guard with Austin Rivers

Episode Date: January 13, 2023

Austin and Pausha break down the latest in the world of hoops and start with Wednesday's game between the Timberwolves and Pistons, where they break down the Wolves’ underwhelming performance and discuss how they can continue to improve (2:49). Then, they weigh in on the structure of the game due to the play-in strategy (8:22), dive into the veterans that have helped mold Austin’s career (19:37), and discuss how highlight culture has killed the game of basketball (30:45). Later, they share thoughts on young talent in the league, highlighting Evan Mobley (40:32), then wrap things up with a rapid-fire round of questions focusing on your favorite players. Hosts: Austin Rivers and Pausha Haghighi  Producer: Ben Cruz Associate Producer: Erika Cervantes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Listen now. What's up everybody? You are listening to the ringer's new NBA pod, off guard. My name is Pasha, and I'm joined by my good friend, shooting guard for the Minnesota Timberwolves, Austin Rivers. Austin, I'm excited to get this thing going, man. How are you? My boy, what's up, man?

This is, I don't know, I don't want to say a dream come true, but this is kind of a dream come true, just considering how many times me and you have talked to basketball over the years and really just went somewhere, grabbed a bite to eat, and talked to basketball for like three or four hours. So now that we're actually getting a platform and a kind of a stage of what not to come on here and talk basketball and have people listen to us, man. This is going to be really special.

I'm really excited for this, bro. Yeah, and most of those conversations we've had were maybe in front of a tropical smoothie or a blaze pizza. Yeah, Blaze pizza, Tropical smoothie, yeah. And I've always appreciated your takes and your perspective. So I'm excited for everyone to sort of hear what you have to say about, you know, everything going on in NBA. Yeah, man. I've kind of dabbled a little bit in the podcast world, but never like this. You know, I really wanted to take this on, you know, full force.

And not just give my opinion out there, but really, you know, just the perspective of, you know, where I've come from and being around a game really since birth. I just feel like, you know, there's experiences and knowledge there that I would like to share with people, especially people who are lovers of the game of basketball and not just NBA, but just all forms of basketball. You know, we're going to talk about it here in the podcast. We're going to have a variety of different guests, all different walks of life, different topics. So just to be able for us to share these experiences, you know, share what it's like.

Obviously, you know what it's like. You know, you're best friends with someone who's in the NBA, Chandler Parsons. You've been around the game for a while. Obviously, me coming from where my dad is, my family is, and being in the NBA, being on the variety of teams that I've been with, playing with the stars I've played with, having my own moments myself, you know, I feel like there's so much that we can talk about and put on this podcast that I think people will really enjoy listening to. So this is going to be fun, man. I can't wait. Let's do it. Unfortunately, we're going to have to start with, you guys had

a tough game last night. You were in Detroit. Oh, we're going right into it. All right, let's go. Last night, you guys had a tough loss in Detroit. You were missing some key guys. And after the game, you talked a little bit about how Detroit players kind of outworked you guys if you want to kind of get into to expound on that a little bit. Yeah, you know, right now, an Achilles heel of ours, and I think of a lot of teams, you'll see in the NBA's, how well do you play versus underperforming teams? You know, if we played the, whoever, man, Chicago Bulls,

Boston Celtics last night, I'm not saying we win that game, but the effort and discipline, I think, is there. It sometimes for us, I'll speak personally just for our team with Minnesota, this year, a big thing for us has been being consistent. And where that shows or where that doesn't show, I guess the better way to put it, is when we play a team like we did last night, you know, Detroit Pistons, they're in the rebuild process. You know, it just wasn't there.

And then you end up losing these games. And these are the games that are going to come back and hopefully not, you know, but these are the games that bother you. And at the end of the season, when you're like a game or two away from the play-in, or out of the play in or trying to be in the playoffs, and you think back and you think about how we were 0-2 this year versus Detroit. You know, those are the things that could haunt you. So we got to make sure we don't let that creep in.

Yeah, and I don't know how much you watch basketball or, you know, keep up with, you know, the standings and everything like that or what other teams are doing. But just when you think you figured a team out and think they're in a rhythm, they'll have some kind of a head-scratching loss. And, yeah, you really don't know what to expect. and, you know, no team's really got into, you know, gotten to a good flow this year. Does, do you feel any relief, you know, seeing other teams,

kind of how no other team has been able to get into a rhythm and how, you know, the standings are all, you know, separated one through even 10 in the West, you know, by a few games? Yeah, you know, for us, you know, there's been, you know, misery loves company. You know, I'm not going to lie to you, it is kind of always reassuring when you look at the standings, and you see the whole Western Conference is kind of going through the same thing we're going through. I mean, as bad as we've played, we're three to four games out from being in the fourth or fifth spot.

Do you know what I'm saying? So, you know, we're almost there. And, you know, for us, we just got to keep, you know, keep in hindsight that we're four or five games away from being right in the bunch. You know what I mean? We just have to stay with it, stay positive. everybody is going through the same thing.

We've dealt with a lot of injuries this year. We've had a whole different team makeup. Obviously, I wasn't here last year in Minnesota, but comparing to last year, I obviously adding Rudy, myself, Kyle, you know, the personnel changes have been there. But we're 40 games into the season now. We've got enough games under our belt where we've got to start kind of coming up with an identity and putting something together. I do believe we'll be in the playoffs this year.

I have no doubt in my mind that this team will be in the playoffs. it's just a really up and down season. You know what I mean? Sometimes it's just the way it goes, but it's about hitting stride at the right time. You see it a lot of time in college basketball. You'll see teams be subpar the whole season, and then they'll hit stride in the tournament

and just make a run and win. You know what I mean? And you saw Dallas go to the conference finals a year or so ago. No one thought that was going to happen, right? Anything's possible, especially when you get to that race, and we have plenty of talent here. So we just got to stay the state of course, man.

Yeah, and you mentioned how it's our, already halfway through the year and you're trying to figure out an identity, but you're doing it without, you know, arguably your best player in, uh, yeah, Kat. So him being out, um, it's hard to see, you know, what it would look like when him and Rudy finally maybe gel. Um, so you're trying to figure that out when guys missing and, you know, you guys got a lot of new players this year. So it's tough, you know, for you guys to do that. Yeah, it's, it's been, it's been, it's been an adjustment, man. Um, you know, obviously having Carl out, uh, has been very difficult for us. Um, um, just considering, you know, he's a big part of our offense, man.

And we rely on Carl in a lot of ways, especially, I mean, on both fans, but obviously mainly offensive. And that was a whole adjustment, man. Like, do you remember the beginning of a year? Like, what it was like when we had Rudy and Carl out there at the same time? You know what I mean? Like, we still were trying to figure that out. And then Carl goes down.

So then we had to figure out who we were without Carl. Last night, Ant's been kind of out. He's been in and out the last couple of games. He's dealing with some stuff. you know it's just been that type of season but at the end of the day you know nobody cares nobody feels bad for us because if you look across the board at a lot of the top teams in the west are going through the same thing you see the warriors going through right now without their best player you know you've seen the phoenix go through it with their better players you know what

I mean it's just it's kind of all around right now and that's why you know you see in the western conference you see the kings the jazz the whoever you know these guys are playing good basketball credit deserved but you're seeing a lot of these higher teams teams kind of out of the race with only 40 games. I think this is going to conclude to be one of the more exciting ends of this regular season that you've ever seen because you're going to see a lot of top tier teams trying to play their best basketball in these last 30, 40 games to make the playoffs. It's going to be very exciting, I think, for fans to watch and enjoy.

Yeah, and at the standing stay as close as they are, playoff seating is not going to mean as much. It's not going to mean anything. For example, one in versus eight or two versus seven. seed, if they're separated by three or four games, you could see a lot of upsets this year. There could be a lot more upsets than years past because these teams are actually a lot more even record-wise than the season. And I do think this is a product of the playing game.

This is my belief. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong, but actually I am saying it. I believe I'm right in this case. But I think the playing has allowed teams to sit, guys. It's allowed the regular season to mean less, you know, to. teams can be like, hey, man, listen, we'll go be a ninth seat or 10 seed and still go in the playoffs. I personally can't stand the playing. I really don't like it. If you want to be in the playoffs, then be in the top eight seed. It makes the regular season more important. It makes,

it makes guys not sit-out games, the load management, all that stuff. This playing thing, I just, I'm not a big fan of it. I mean, it is what it is. He does give, I mean, listen, if we end up the 10th seed, then I'll have to eat by words because that'll end up being a a great thing for us this year. But honestly, I'm just, I'm with the assumption that like, the way it worked in the previous 50 years of the NBA, it was the right way.

If you want to make the playoffs, be a top eight seat. So I'm going to disagree with you on one, maybe, maybe I'll have two points here to disagree with you with. The first being, the Pelicans, for example, last year were a nine seat, I believe. And they wouldn't have made the playoffs without the play-in.

They ended up winning and getting into the playoffs to the play-in. And they ended up playing the Sons and it ended up being a super entertaining series going toe-to-to-to with the one seed. It went six games. It was really close. We had the Alvarado versus Chris Paul thing

and awesome series. And they ended up building that, taking that momentum, finishing that year, and kind of catapulting it into this year where they've had a great year and they're one of the top teams in the West. And I think that's due to the momentum

that started off. at the end of last year, which they wouldn't have made the playoffs about the play in. Another point I wanted to make was the year of Minnesota Timberwolves last year. They won their playing game and, you know, they got into the playoffs and they celebrated that like they won a championship. And I thought that was great for the fans. I don't want any, I don't want to, I don't, yeah, I don't want any parts of that. That, that was ridiculous. It was on the home floor.

That was a starving fan base. They've talked about that this year, like 10 times about how excessive. their celebration was and how they just, even they look back now and they're like, that was a little, that was a little much. You know what I'm saying? Like that, that was a little much. But, but you know what, though? You know, passion wins all. You know what I mean? And the team last year, I thought the, you know, catalyst of that was obviously Patrick. And he gave them an identity in terms of them kind of being the underdog. Like you said, in New Orleans type, they played hard. They're able to surprise. They beat the Clippers his ex team, too, which is why he was so passionate.

And they went to the playoffs. I mean, listen, I don't want to say, like, I hate the play in. I get it. I get why they do it. It does also give teams that are, you know, the 7th to 11, usually those teams that are tanking, it gives them, or not a 7th seed, but you get what I'm saying. It gives those teams an incentive to still play basketball the right way and still play hard and get fans a good product in terms of like competitive basketball out there, not just like bad, bad basketball. You know what I mean? Like what you would see in previous year? So I get the play in. I just, I don't know, man. I'm kind of unflinching and unwavering in this belief that, like, I just would rather have best eight teams going each side and you go to the playoffs, man. It's just how it is in any other sport, you know, for the most part, you know, you make the playoffs. I guess is it, is it playing a wildcard game? Like, what is that? Is that kind of what it is?

Well, it's kind of a four-team playoff that figures out who's going to play the one in the two-seat between seven and ten. And didn't they say they're going to do like a mid-season something now? What is that? Well, also, as you know, I'm a diehard Orlando Magic fan. And we've put together, you know, some wins recently, especially since Mark Hill Fultz has, you know, coming to the lineup. And, you know, now all the, you know, Magic Twitter after every game,

you know, we're saying, you know, we're three and a half games out of the playing. We're four games out of the playing. And yeah, are we also maybe four games out of the worst record in the NBA? You know, that's potentially. But we are, you know, it's something for like a fan base, like, you know, Orlando's, for example, to say, we're three and a half, four games out of the playing.

Maybe we won't tank. Like we're actually, we can maybe make some noise, you know, so. I guess I shouldn't, I shouldn't be, I shouldn't be talking right now, considering that we're like literally in the 10th spot right now or 11th spot, wherever we're at, we're like hunting in the play in.

So I guess you end up getting in the play in and sneaking into the playoffs. You're going to end up loving the playing. Yeah, you're probably right. Yeah. So last night, you know, you got to see, you know, Detroit and, you know, their young core. And they're one of those maybe four to, you know, four or five teams that have a good young core

with, you know, multiple high draft picks. in the NBA. How do you rank, I don't know Cade's been out, but how do you rank their, you know, their young core, you know, versus the others, you know, like maybe out of OKC, Orlando, Houston. We'll even throw like San Antonio in there, for example. How do you rank their, how do you rank their young core? I think in terms of which core plays the right way consistently, in terms of young basketball, I'd probably have to go to OKC. I'm mostly impressed with their with their young core. They play hard.

They play the right way. They would be number one for me. And by the way, that's without Chet. And I liked what I saw from him in Summer League. Yes, exactly. He could have been an impact rookie this year. That is without Chet. But I like Giddy.

I like his game. Obviously, I don't have to say anything about Shea. Everybody knows what his is. The biggest question with Shea is timeline. By the time Chet is going. and Giddy's going. This is two, three years from now. You know, again, Shea isn't that old.

He's only, what, 24, 23, 24? So now he's 26, 27. Does he fit in that timeline with this team or is here a year or two years to, I don't want to say late because he's still so young? But like... Well, the answer to that is, do you think Shay's game is going to age well?

Yes. Because he's already reaching a superstar level now. When he's 30 and these other guys are, you know, in the early 20s, or mid-20s, I don't see why not, why he wouldn't be a part of their core? I think Shea's going to be dominant in the NBA until he's like 34, 35.

I really do believe that. His game is going to age very well. It already looks like he plays at that pace. He's not like driving down the lane, jumping in the air, you know, ducking on people or falling to the ground hard. Like those guys' careers usually don't pan out too well in terms of longevity. Shea's game is all skill work, patience,

You know, guys like him and Luca, like, bro, they're going to be good for a long time. So I guess that answers the question right there. He might be a little bit older than those guys, but he'll fit in just nicely. He's got to be the core piece. He's the best part of the team. I like them first. Second, I think there's a long, sorry, I think there's a long gap between OKC and the next young team doing it right. So a long gap between them and Orlando, who should be your second pick?

Yes. Yes, I'd probably put Orlando too. I like Apollo. I like Franz. I love the Bull Bull pickup. I love what Mowbly's been able to do with him in terms of just letting him go and just like kind of... Yeah, Coach Mosley.

Yeah, Coach Mosley's really just let him just go, man. Like, just really just, you know, let him be bowl, you know what I mean? And, you know, accept him for who he is and really, like, believe in his ability, his freakish-like ability. You know, I think he's done a good job there. You were his teammate in Denver, and you...

Did you see that ability in practice? Yes. He was dominant. And we had training camp. He was dominant. And then just didn't play a lick. I mean, just couldn't even get a minute. It was very strange.

But from what I've seen, and I've been on that side too, I've been on teams where I've performed well, practice after practice, training camp. And it's just like the coach is just like, you know. At the day, man, NBA is similar to like any business in life, man. It's relationships. It's getting along with somebody. It's understanding somebody. And human nature is said to be that if that's not going well, you're not going to like somebody. And if you don't like somebody, it's hard to believe in them.

You know what I mean? Like that's just, and I'm not going to speak for anybody in that situation with Bowlball or anybody, but it just seemed like he couldn't do anything to really get on the court. And that's not something you ever want to see a player in. And there's no coincidence. He goes to the one team right after Denver and starts playing well. It's not like he dramatically got better over the summer. You know, he got an opportunity.

An opportunity is everything in the NBA. So I'm glad to see him down there doing his thing. I like Orlando's team. I like the talent of Houston's young team. Let me just say that. They just need... And we're going to get into the quote you had about Houston and something along the line.

I know it's taken out of context, but something along the lines of them needing a vet to come in and kind of teach Jalen Green and Kevin Porter, Jr., how to play the right way. Yeah, I think they need more vets is what I really meant to say. I stand by what I said, to be completely honest, that they do need vets. But Eric, I think also has been there for a...

such a long time. And he's also a situation where a lot of playoff teams are looking for him. I think you'll see Eric Gordon on like a prime team here in the next year or two. So I don't even know if that's the fit. You know what I mean? Not saying that Eric Gordon's not capable of doing that because Eric's like a stud of a basketball player. He's, you know, this is the guy that I used to actually look up to when I was in high school, middle school.

I used to watch Eric Gordon tapes. I've always been a fan of his game. But situation is everything. I think where he's at in his career right now. He's trying to go somewhere and win, you know, similar to what I am trying to go to like a young competing team. I think even more so than him. He's like 30 what? Aaron's like 32. Yeah, Eric's got to be 34 if he was, I think it was high school class of 07. Yeah, 33, 34. So like I know he's trying to get to like, you know, a big time team, right? So it takes a special type of vet and a timing

vet. It's got to be a guy who's like you've got to understand the road of being on a team that has young core, like a young core. Like when your best players are 21, 22, 19, 20, it is. It is It's not going to be like this. It is not going to be like a scaling up trajectory. Like, it's going to be an up and down season. People ask, well, what's going on in Minnesota? Our best players are 20 years old, 21 years old, 23 years old. Like, bro, this is what this is what it is. Like, there's a learning curve, man, especially when there's so much asked of these guys. There's a learning curve. So I think Houston needs to surround their young talent. I like KPJ. I like, I like Jalen Green's talent. You know what I mean? I like Kenyon Martin Jr.'s talent. They're talented

they're athletic. They just need guys that can just really show them how to be even better of professionals on the court and off the court. You know what I mean? And those things are translate to to a better positivity, a better energy in the organization of more wins. You were obviously once in their situation, you know, one and done guy, a 19-year-old in the NBA. And you play with a lot of, you know, future Hall of Famers, a lot of great vets. Who were the, who was the vet or vets that kind of helped you become, you know, a better professional, a better player? Oh, man, I've had, I've been very lucky to have multiple.

I'd say Jamal Crawford was a big, big deal for me on the court wise, just in terms of really getting to, you know, getting to my bag, trusting my work, you know what I mean, understanding, you know, not to ease into a game, especially coming off the bench. You know, you talk about a guy who perfected coming off. the bench, you know, the sixth man of the year award, by the way, should be called the Jamal Crawford Award, but that's a different conversation for another time. That guy was, you know, everything that I was trying to be, you know, coming off the bench for that

Clippers team that was loaded. And he taught me really how to just trust my work after coming out of New Orleans, not really having the highest of confidence after that stint didn't go well, being a lottery pick. You know, I was really down on myself. And now I'm playing for my father in L.A. And I'm dealing with all this, like, negativity and all this stuff. You know, And Jamal really taught me how to breathe and relax and just go out there and trust your game and let everything else kind of fall in place. So he was the biggest for me. And then another person who was big was not a player.

It was, you know, Sam Cassell and my father, I'm going to keep it on it with you. You know what I mean? I played for a coach, my dad and Sam Cassell, who should be a head coach at some point here in the near future because he's over deserved, well-deserved of a coaching job. And these guys taught me how to just trust myself. Man, he believed in me. Go play, go hoop. We saw you in high school.

We saw you in college. We've seen you at spurts in the NBA. And that's where kind of my NBA career took off. You know, opportunity is everything in the NBA. Having a coach that believes in you and trusts you and gives you a little bit of rope to go out there and make mistakes to let you roll the ball out there and play. That is everything. And I had to learn that. I didn't learn that in New Orleans.

I wasn't given that. I got everything kind of stripped from me there. And it was a real big step back for me. So when I got to Los Angeles, I think it was just, it was paramount that I listened to these vets who were already successful, J.J. Reddick, Jamal Crawford, Chris Paul. You know what I mean? These guys were like studs, you know what I mean? And I'm surrounded by all these guys with kind of no makeup of my own. I just got to learn from them. I just watched them. I watch JJ. I watch CP3. I watch how they approached every day, how they were professional, how they dressed, how they did their interviews, what they ate, you know, what time they got to practice. what time they got to the arena, how they watched film. Did they watch film in the plane or were they watching movies? Like, dudes who are like at the highest level, there's a reason why they're at the highest level. They do things the right way and it took me time to learn that.

And then after a while, you know, I finally got it. Back to that Houston team that you played the other day. Anthony Edwards after the game kind of made a comment about how Shangoon is, you know, he's the one that was kind of hard to game plan for and how he's a problem. And actually about a month ago, Nicola Yoke said something kind of to that effect, saying they should play through him. And I kind of thought that would be, that was him just kind of getting another international big man's, you know, back, you know, a young player. So when Anthony Edwards kind of said the same thing, is that something that you kind of agree with that they should be kind of playing through him?

He's really good, man. Like he's very, he's highly skilled. He's super skilled, man. He was a he was a chic pick coming into the draft a couple years ago, like numbers guys, The analytics guys loved him. I'm actually surprised like O KSia Antonio didn't pick him up. Yeah, right, right, right. Yeah, right. He's good. Every time we play him and he scores, like, our bench will just like look at each other.

And guys would just be like, yo, the dude has game, bro. Like, he has feel. He super skilled in the post. He needs to improve his perimeter shooting. I think that's like his next step is like, if he becomes like a knockdown jump shooter, I mean, he's going to be like a 20 and 15. I mean, he's a monster already. I think he has ability.

You know, I don't know how tall he is. You know, Kiyokic is so big. You know what I mean? That, like, he's seven foot with those same skills that he has and even more because he could pass. And so good San Guam, but not like Yokic. But I don't know. All-Star is so hard, man. There's so many good players in the Western Conference that don't make the All-Star game.

Who knows? I don't know. Jonte Murray made the All-Star game last year. And he's a really good player, but no one thought he was going to make the All-Star game. Like, you just don't know. Oh, yeah. If you Googled whenever you were bored, the list of one-time all-stars.

Shout to Jamal McGlore, guys like that. I'm not saying that Jante-Murry is going to be a one-time all-star, but you'd be pretty shocked at the list of one-time all-stars. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Some guys, you know, so who am I to say he can't?

But his skill level and his scoring level, yeah, he could. He could make an all-star game, yeah. He's really good. Should they be playing through him? Probably. But I do think it's very important that they continue to roll that ball out

for Jalen Green and just continue, let him make mistakes, let him have his good games, his bad games, let him learn, because he's very talented, man. Like, dude, they threw an alley-up to him. His whole chest was above the rim, and he caught it with one hand. He's got a pretty looking jump shot. He's got a good handle. He's just got to learn how to play the game. You know what I mean?

Like, that comes with just experience and time. Like, he'll get it. You know what I mean? Like, I think Jalen and him are like the two guys that they got to continue to play through. Speaking of, you know, young players with a lot of expectation, Brani, every time I look at Instagram, it looks like there's another high school highlight of his. I know he had senior night last night.

You were in a similar situation. You had a famous father. You were a number one player in the nation, actually. You had a lot of attention on you. Who mixed tape followed you everywhere you went. What advice would you give someone in that situation now that you kind of wish you had back then? I would say first and foremost, you know, enjoy these moments. In high school, it's fun.

You know what I mean? And college is fun and the NBA's fun, but it's just different, man. In high school, you're playing with your friends. You know, it's just, there's so much purity to basketball at that level. And I think for him and his name, what he's about to get into, he's already getting the N.I. deals and all these deals and money's about to get when he probably goes to college or whatever route he chooses to take. It's just going to become a lot for him. And that would be my first thing.

It's just enjoy this because he's handled. it so well. His parents, both parents of Anna and, and LeBron have done an amazing job raising their kids considering how much attention they all get. None of them get in trouble. Their parents don't get in trouble. They kind of stay clear. No one's perfect for that matter, but, you know, they're kids, man. And I think Brody's done an amazing job handling the level of expectation and pressure that's been put on him. He's done a fantastic job. And mind you, he's done it while living in Los Angeles, That's probably one of the worst places to raise a teenage kid with the last name, James. I mean, like they've been able to do it.

You know what I mean? They stay clean. They stay clear. You know, kids got nothing but better every year, it looks like. You compare like Bronte's sophomore year to now. He's like two different players. Is he an NBA player? I don't know, man.

You don't ever know these answers until you get to college. There's a lot of top ranked players right now who are going to be worse than Bronnie when they get to college. You know what I mean? Like that stuff doesn't mean anything. So that would be my second thing I tell him, is just to stay on the pedal, bro. Keep developing. Keep getting better. You know, don't worry about the success and the attention that you're getting right now does not mean anything.

They'll shoot you down as soon as you're not good enough for them. That's exactly what the media would do. They'll turn on you. People will turn on you. Your fans will turn on you. So don't get caught up into that hype or that attention. This is someone coming from the, I was the number one player pretty much almost from like sixth grade in my 12th grade year.

I was one of the top players. You know what I mean? How could that, and how could that not get into your head? I mean, you were playing on ESPN against, was it Michael Gilchrist at the time? Yeah. And the next day,

you had to walk around, you have to go to geometry or whatever, and you, yeah, we're just on TV. I mean, it did creep in, man. I was a note all at times too.

You know what I mean? Like, that's part of growth, right? Like, I look back at some of the things I did, even as a rookie in New Orleans or like things at Duke. And I'm like, man,

like, I wish I would have handled that situation better or I wish I would have listened. you know what I mean um so that's part of it but you know I think I did a pretty fair good job and the reason being is because like my goal was never to be a top high school player my goal was never to be a good college player I wanted to be in the NBA I wanted to do exactly what I saw my dad do or what he was around what he coached I saw that at age five six and I was like that's what I'm going to be when I grew up and all the things that come along with that and the

process of that is cool but like I do not want to like I don't want people looking at me and be like yo man you're a great high school player I wish you would have made the NBA Like, hell no, bro. You know what I mean? Like, it's just so much bigger than that, right? So it's like, that was my main focus. I also had a last name that I wanted to get out of. Not the name itself, but I wanted to have a first name to that.

I didn't want to just be known as Rivers. I wanted to be known as Austin Rivers. I wanted to make a name for myself. And I'm sure that's what Bronny's wanted to do, which he's done already for himself. You know what I mean? Of course, everybody knows him as LeBron James's son. He'll never escape that.

His dad's the most popular athlete in the world. I've never escaped it. My dad's Doc Rivers, not LeBron James. He's a big figure, but LeBron is something in a whole different five levels. You know what I mean? And that'll be something he never escapes. But as long as they have a respect for him, I think that's what's really important. I think he's getting that, you know, and the younger one.

And you do that by doing what they're doing now. You stay clean. You stay clear. He doesn't get any trouble. He doesn't say anything. He just keeps playing, keeps letting people poke their opinions about them, and you keep moving along. So I really hope the best for him. I like that you said that you are at the point now in your life where you're

you can look back and kind of make fun of or even like knowledge that some of the things you were doing back then, you know, weren't, you know, you were maybe embarrassed by them or whatever, but, you know, this is maturity now. But I remember those two mixtape days where, you know, you were saying, I'm going to go off. I'm going to go off right now, which is, I think still to this day, right under John Wall, the best hoot mixtape of all time. You kind of hated it when people brought it up. And now I think you're at a point where you're like, you're, you embrace it. It was part of kind of your journey. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's just how I felt. I felt like I was that dominant in high school that I could, you know, I looked at the camera like, I'm just going to turn it on right now and just take over the game. That's just how I felt in my confidence. I think that game I ended up having like 45 too. So like that's, that's just how I, that's real. You know what I mean? That wasn't like a thing. That's, that's, we're going to get to this in a second because that's what's changed over the years with this, this media and the hoop mix tapes and everyone gets a tape now. You get a taping. This kid gets a taping. This guy gets followed. It's really changed basketball.

and the purity of it. But, you know, we'll get into that in a second. But I felt like when I played, it was you had to earn that. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's awesome that you just said that because Kyle Kuzma earlier this week said, he had a quote, kind of the effect of highlight culture, absolutely killed the game of basketball.

And I thought of you when he said that because I know you agree with that. I 100% agree with it. By the way, Kyle is 100% right. He's 100% right. It's not even like a little bit. He's 100% right. And what's the negative effect that's had on basketball? The little things in basketball are forgotten now,

and they're not appreciated. And it's like a trickle effect, even to like the analytics of numbers and stuff. Like certain guys don't get paid what they value in basketball, what kids think are cool. I'm going to try to make this as sweet as possible because this really does bother me. I talk about this all the time.

When I played in high school, you only got a mixtape if you were, like a top tier guy. Like I'm talking like... Or you were the crime stopper. He wasn't a top guy. Who was the guardsman? No, but he was must-c-t-V.

He was must-c-tcTV. Akeel car. Yeah, he was... And you know what, though? Even though he wasn't like... The only reason he wasn't top-tier guys because of his height. Right.

So people didn't take him serious enough to like recruit him to these high division one schools. But in terms of like going to a game and competing against him, that dude was the real deal. Like, Akil was not out there like just putting on

mixtapes. Dude was really giving people 40. I saw him go against Wiggins and like they battled. You know what I mean? Andrew Wiggins is now obviously who he is. But that's the point though. Back then, like you had to put in work, like consistent work, build a name for yourself to get a mixtape. And it was like an honor to have a ball of his life mixtape. It was an honor to have a hoot mixtape. You know what I mean? And like we didn't play to have one though. I didn't go into a game doing something to be on hoop mixtape. I went into the game to win and just be myself. And hoop mixtape and them were there following me. I didn't ask Hoot Mix tape to come follow me. I didn't pay Hoot Mix tape a dollar. I didn't pay Bala's life a dollar. They just followed me because I was that guy.

They followed Brad Beale because he was that guy. They followed this guy because he was that guy. That's how it was. It is, the landscape has changed now. Parents are paying these people to come to games. Everyone gets a mixtape. Everyone looks at the camera now and taps on their head and they dunk on someone. And it's all highlight after highlight after highlight. And now only kids watch highlights, they don't watch the actual basketball game, the purity of the game, you know, making a hockey pass, which means making the right pass, even though you're not going to get an assist, you're driving to make a play so someone else can make the play to get an assist, you know, diving on the floor, talking on defense, playing defense at all, shooting good shots,

making the game easy, being efficient with basketball, you know, scoring off one or two dribbles rather than 15 dribbles. This whole thing, this all, and I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I only named like 12. There's 50 of them has been forgotten about in basketball. And you're seeing it with some of these guys that come in the NBA, and I can name you names, but I'm not going to, that come into the NBA and have all the talent in the world, but like they need to be taught basketball because, like, this is what basketball is now.

Like highlight culture has absolutely, yeah, it has. It has. It has. And I'm not saying, like, basketball is done. Like, the NBA is amazing. I love watching the NBA. I watch NBA every night. It's great. But especially more so with youth, because the NBA, they weed that shit out, the guys who can't figure it out and figure out how to adjust and play the game the right way they end up not playing or eventually they're out the league.

College and high school and this whole social media and everything, yeah, it's just, it's not good for the game. I don't think so. I agree with Kyle. And one thing that you've always said to me that you've, you know, one thing you've really realized throughout your NBA career is, you know, there's only two guys maybe on a team that kind of get those highlights, do whatever they want with the ball. and everyone else on the court is there to compliment those guys. Yeah. And if you're not one of those top, you know, whatever, let's say 30, 40 guys in the world, you are on the court to have a role, right? And to impact winning.

So that's kind of the problem there is if you're not, you know, Murray or Yokic, then you're on that court to help those guys win the game. 100%. And that's the issue that you'll see is because it takes time to adjust. It took me time, man. It took me three, four years in the NBA to figure out, okay, I've got to be a role player. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not going to be an all-star here.

Maybe one day I can be an all-star, but it'd be, the only way I'll be an all-star is me being an all-star by being a star in my role. You know what I mean? Like, I'd have to just be like crushing my role as a role player. And then, you know, like, you see those guys that'll make an all-star game once or or twice. Like, that's how I would make it. But being the actual star, you know what I mean?

Every NBA player is the best player in their team. every NBA player is the best every NBA player is probably the best player in their college team you know what I mean like you're going to have to come to the NBA and figure it out for me like I said situation is everything if I don't get drafted to New Orleans

and I get drafted on a different team who knows bro who knows because I still feel like my scoring ability and everything I have had had whatever I could have been this or that but whatever I got drafted to a situation where that was not in my cards man and it took me a year two or three

to figure out wow okay I I'm going to have to really be a role player. Because after like two or three years, your time frame is done. You have to, like, move on and, like, really learn how to fit in the NBA and, like, be a productive player. And I now at age 30 of becoming the best role player I've ever been. And I'm 30 years old. This is the best I've ever been as a role player is right now. And I feel like these next three or four years will be my best years as an NBA player as a pro.

And that's just now happening, bro. Like, it is hard. It's an adjustment. I love what you're saying right now. You're making a lot of great points. I'm going to give you a little quick breather, and we'll be right back after this quick break. So, Austin, you mentioned that you watch basketball every night. The ringer just updated their top 100 lists for NBA players and their league pass rankings.

I know you have league pass. I know you watch every night. They have, I'm going to go through these really quick. Tell me if you agree. I know you have your own league pass guys. You probably watch your teams. They have John Morant one. We have Janus 2.

We have Luca 3. We have Yokic 4. Shea 5 Darius Garland 6 Lamello 7 Halliburton 8 Bull Bull 9 we've mentioned before earlier in this pod

This list is ridiculous And Joel Mbb 10 Do you agree disagree Maybe you want to throw in some players or league pass teams that you love watching Is Tatum not on there? He's not on the league pass top 10 now Um, yeah, I mean, Tatum would be on there. Is Kevin Durant on there?

He is not on this top 10 list. Is Kyrie Irving on there? No. So the Nets aren't on there. Just forget. The Nets aren't on there. Seltics aren't on there. Jalen Brown. I don't know, man. I'd much rather watch Jason Tatum than almost every person on that list. Okay. Is there a team that you are, it's almost like a guilty pleasure? You're like, like the team that you, when they're on, you like watching them? Tatum's at 14. Yeah, that's... There's not 13 guys in the league better than Jason Tatum, but that's here and no there.

No, it's not better. This is league pass watch. This is who I would have liked to watch. He's a fun guy to watch play. I agree with the... John Morant number one. He has a highlight every game that leaves you like jaw dropped. It's totally like 2010, 2011.

Derek Rose. You guys 11, Derek Rose season. Must see TV. Every night, it's a new dunk. Something we've never seen before. I totally agree with that. I like that. Joel Embed's fun to watch what he's done

over the past couple of years. A lot of this is preference. You know what I mean? Like, Yokage is by far top two or three best players in the NBA, right? That's like unanimous at this point. He's bad to possibly win a three-time MVP. Is he the most fun to watch on league pass?

That's a different thing. So you're saying he's not as fun to watch? No, no, no. I'm not saying he's not fun to watch. I like watching. If you know basketball and you appreciate it, I like watch. I play to the Yoga.

I mean, I definitely like watching him play. But him and Jarre are like two different types of basketball watching. You know what I mean? Like, I'm a score, defender, whatever. I like watching guys who like, I like watching guards. You know what I mean? I'm not going to watch a center. The only reason I even said Jolumbed because he plays like a guard.

But that's why I said Tatum. Kyrie Irving is the most fun player to watch in basketball when he's healthy. In history? Probably. He is one of the most entertaining guys. he just has the prettiest game in my way, man. He has the prettiest game of basketball. I remember one time, it was during COVID.

It was kind of in a lockdown situation. You and me were, we just, you popped in a Kyrie off YouTube, like a Kyrie Irving highlight tape. It might have been from a random season, offensive highlights. And we watched for like 20 minutes. And you were like, this is just like, who's doing this? If you go watch his like Cavs highlight, just YouTube, Kyrie Irving Cavs highlights. And they have montage of his, like, handle highlight.

There is not a better montage. of video clips that you'll ever see a player do in terms of just like under the rim basketball. I'm talking about guys who like drive and dunk on a whole bunch of people. Like obviously like you can look at Kobe highlights and Jordan highlights and see them. I'm talking about just skill for skill.

As a guard, Kyrie is just like, it's just elite, man. Watching him and Steph and Damien Lillard, probably those three in terms of like just elite scoring over these years. Those would be the three most fun guys I like watching. I like watching Damian Lillard play.

Kyrie Irving and Steph Curry are the three most interesting. entertaining guards that I personally would like to watch. Yeah. All right. So recently, a lot of people have been down on Evan Mobley's play. I think it's kind of been a lackluster, you know, sophomore campaign. I know Kendrick Perkins, too, I think he's, I think he does a good job. But last night on Twitter kind of went in on him being a little bit of a disappointment this year. A lot of guys have been really critical. How do you feel about that? Because he's, he's 20 years old and he's on a team with a bunch of good players, players like Donovan

Mitchell and Darius Garland who could, you know, score 30 or 40 on any given night. Jared Allen. He's not even the best big on his team. team right now. So how do you feel about that? It's pretty unfair criticism. Yeah, well, first I'll speak on perk. It's tough when you're not playing anymore and your job is to critique basketball. You can't always be righteous and like, not righteous. You can't always be fair and accommodating to players' feelings. Even if you're right or wrong, you have to give your opinion out there. That's literally what Perk it does now. He gets paid to give his opinion out there, even if it's harsh. Sometimes it'll be fair. Sometimes it won't. I know a lot of guys hate that. And they're

Like, I hate when former players do that. And who was Kendrick Perkins as a player? He didn't even do any, you know, blah, blah, blah. But like, bro, that's literally his job is to call it how he sees it, whether he's wrong or right. So I don't take any offense to that. And if you know Perk, you know he's harmless and he's just doing his job. In terms of his critique on Mobley, is it fair? Or Scotty Barnes, is it fair to some degree just because there has been a little bit of a drop off there and performance.

But that is due to reason. And that is, you know, like we have. Like me and you have talked off camera, bro, about this. And, you know, he's playing with Donovan Mitchell, you know, who's having a big year, but he's a high volume scorer, you know. Darius Garland is big year, but he's a high volume scoring point guard. He plays with Jared Allen, who's an all-star. Carers Lavert.

The list goes on. They got a lot of guys in there that are scoring the ball. You know, Rubio's back now, which I think actually will help because he's such a great pastor. He'll probably help Mowbly a little bit more. I thought Rubio had a great year last year until he got hurt. Him and Kevin Love Up the bench, that old Minnesota thing, That chemistry they had.

They were a great last job off the bench until you got. What Kevin Love and Rubio has done for Cleveland is like goals for what I'm myself and like Kyle Anderson, what we're trying to do here in Minnesota in terms of like not only helping the young guys play, but actually playing to. Like help them on the court by being a great player and also help them be the best player. You know what I mean? And that's what they've done there. I think they've done a fantastic job.

Shout out to Rubio and Kay Love and Kobe, the GM, putting that together. But in terms of Mobley, how old is he? He's got to be 20 years old. Right. Do you know how ridiculous this is that we're like critiquing these guys? These guys are eight years away from being in their prime. Eight, as in like eight years ago, they were 12. It's insane.

Imagine if Mobley was on, you know, the magic or a team where he could get into maybe, he could really develop his offensive toolbox, if you will, and learn how to do all these things and get those 20 points. Mowgli is a stud Scotty Barnes is a stud Both of them got game Both of them can play Both of them had huge rookie years

I don't know if speaking of which Donovan Mitchell right Had a monster Rookie year And then came back and had a good sophomore campaign But it wasn't like his rookie one Because there's a little bit

expectation there There's a little bit of pressure there So what he did is he learned how to deal with it And he got better And he came back his third year It was even better again You know what I mean? Like, that's exactly what's going to happen to Scotty Barnes.

It's exactly what's going to happen with Mobley. These guys are only going to get better. Like I said, man, it's really ridiculous. And again, I totally understand why K. Perk did it. It's his job. Well, he's not the only one, by the way. A lot of guys are critical on Mobley. They wanted a big jump.

How could he have a big jump? How could he have a big jump also adding a guy like Donovan Mitchell, who's obviously in his prime right now, having the year he's having, where we're talking about him being maybe the best shooting guard in the NBA. How do you also expect Evan Moble to have? a big offensive jump. We should actually be praising him for his willingness to play the role that he's in right now. Yeah, exactly.

In fact, winning. Yeah, what you're seeing from him is that he's accommodating and that he's willing to do whatever the coaches and players and his teammates are asking him to do to fit in. Like, that's why Cleveland's been so successful. I mean, if he had an ego about himself, like, I was, you know, rookie of the year or one of the rookies or what are the guys, this, this, this. And I think who won last year? Scottie Barnes won a rookie year.

Scottie Barnes won a year. But Mobley missed time, yeah. Mowbley was in the race, nonetheless, and he was up for it if you didn't get hurt. You know, he could have an ego about himself and go about things the wrong way and he's not. I mean, he's going about everything the right way. Scotty Barnes is on a team that's still really trying to figure themselves out. You know, I mean, they've obviously changed since Kauai left. They've still been trying to figure out, you know, are we playing through Pascal?

Are we playing through this guy? Is Fred Van Fleet going to be our guy? Like, you know what I mean? He's, he's in the mix. These dudes are 20 years old, 21 years old, man. I say this about Anthony Edwards all the time as good as he is. He's like six years away from being his best self. like when he's like 27, 28, that's when they're going to be their best.

That's when like their peak athleticism, but now the mental side has started to come together and they're going to really perform. That's like when Kobe was his best, right? Kobe was really great as eight and he was great as 24. But like right there in the middle, those like mid years, Kobe was like... Your favorite Kobe is the Kobe 81 Kobe. 07, 08, 06, 05. Kobe was in terms of basketball, he was gone.

with the basketball. He was incredible. He was, he was, he was, couldn't guard him. You know what I mean? That's, again, that's that peak age. I played with James Harden. Same thing. When James was in Houston 27, 28, he was unstoppable. You know what I mean? Like that's, that's the best time. And these guys are six, seven years away from that, bro. That's so much time. Do you know where I was at six years ago? Or like where this guy was at six years ago? Six, seven years ago, these guys were in middle school. Right. You know what I mean? Like so much can happen. These guys are only going to get better. So I understand it's, it's fair game to critique. That's their job. It's a high-pressured sport. The media's going to talk to their shit. But like, yeah, that's ridiculous in

terms of like, Scotty Barnes is this, this, this, and he's not performing. Like, bro, these dudes are going to be studs. They're big-time players. That's my take on that. Yeah. And Zach Lowe had a great, he said something great the other day on a pod. He said, it was the same way you're celebrating Lori Marketing this year, for example, and how you can give up on these, you know, one and done guys, a young player, takes the right team, right fit, to really reach their potential. At the same time, you could say that, how could you also give up on a 20-year-old? you know what I mean? 100%.

And that reminds me also of Andrew Wiggins, who a lot of people rode off and went into him in his Minnesota days. And now last year he was with the second best player on a championship team, right team, right fit. And a lot of people could have gave up on him.

They sold their Andrew Wiggins stock. A million people did. And now Andrew Wiggins is a valuable player on a championship level team or a championship team. So it's all about fit. 100%. Right. So it's nuts to even give up

or even critique a guy and it's halfway through his second year in NBA. Yeah, right. It's too early. Halfway through it, yeah. It's just too early. It's just too early.

All right. We don't have a lot of time left. I wanted to finish it with sort of a rapid fire, true or false segment. I'm going to name kind of a statement and you tell me true or false. And maybe you've a reason why. I'm game. All right, here we go. I'm going to kick it off with AD and LeBron, when healthy, are still the best duo in NBA.

Ooh. I'm going to go false. Okay. Who is it? I like, I like, I like Tatum Brown. for the two-way? What's the reason there? Yeah.

I just think they've done it the past two or three years. They've just been so elite scoring. They've been efficient scoring, and they both have turned. Tatum went from being a non-defendant to being an actually pretty damn good defender. Jalen's always been that, but Tatum's actually even took on that challenge, especially in the fourth quarter. I think they're just the most consistent. That's why. They have to be, I don't even like the win healthy.

They've just been the best duo. I'm giving them the crown. All right. The next one I have is out of Wally Zurbiax's playbook. We have Jalen Brunson is better than Tyrese Halliburton. They played last night. I don't know if Halliburton's healthy, but Brunson, he looked at the better of him a little bit that game.

Definitely offensively. I'm going to say false. It's not that Tyrese is better. They're just two different players, man. Like, Jalen's more of a score-hungry player. And Tyreys scores, but he's more of a past first guy. You know, it's like comparing Jason Kidd to Alan Iverson. Like, who's better?

Like, I don't know. They both do different things. You know what I mean? Like, they're both great. I'm a big Jalen Brunson fan. For him to be dominating at the NBA with the athleticism he doesn't have and at the height he doesn't have

tells you how nasty he is. His footwork and craftiness is probably top tier in the NBA. He's probably top two or three in terms of crafting. Tyrese is probably every GM's like wet dream of a starting point guard. Just a throwback guard that,

now it's all about scoring, right? For guards, if you, if you asked any GM or president who you could start a franchise with as a point guard right now, Now, his name would probably be at the top of that list. It'd be one of the top three. I'm not even kidding.

He'd be one or two or three. He'd be up there. And I thought his shooting would be an issue because of his form or, you know, whatever the case may be. But he, you know, he's a 40% shooter from three. No issues with him on the court, off the court. His teammates love him. He's professional. He's likable.

He's marketable. He plays the game the right way. The extra pass. His shot doesn't look like what people wanted to do, but it goes in. He's quick. He's athletic. He's like a better version of almost Lonzo. You know what I mean? Alonzo's a great point guard.

But Tyrese is like a better version of that. Like Tyrese is top tier, man. You know what I mean? Like I would put him at the top of that list. All right. Next question or, you know, let's say statement. Shea is already better than the guy he got traded for, Paul George. I mean, right now he is.

It's tough because Paul hasn't been healthy. Paul healthy is a monster, man. You know what I mean? Like Paul George is really good. But if we're going as right now in the moment, yeah, what Shay is like, What Shea's done this season is crazy, man. Like, he should be an all-star.

Probably will be. So I don't know what their team records. So that might play against him. But yeah, I would go with Shay's better right now, only just because Paul hasn't been healthy. That's fair. Next one. This will be the last one.

Donovan Mitchell is the best shooting guard in the NBA right now. I know it's a little unfair. D. Book has been hurt. What is Tatum? Tatum is a small forward? I mean, Jalen Brown, Tatum. These guys. interchangeable forwards, I would say, right?

I know Brown for the All-Star purposes is in the guards. Small forward. He's a small forward, though, right? So is Tatum, right? Tatum's in the forward spot, huh? Well, yeah, if you're looking at their lineup, like in the finals last year, it was Marcus Smart, Brown, Tatum. If Tatum, if Tatum's a guard, if Tatum's a shooting guard,

he's the best shooting guard in the NBA. No, no, he's small forward. Okay. Is Donovan Mitchell the best? I would say the competition would be Devin'clock. Booker who it's unfair he's been he's been hurt but he started off the year really strong yeah i'm gonna go no on that i don't think donovan mitchell's the best shooting on the NBA he's definitely up there um his this year he's been incredible for cleveland though you got to give him his his his

flowers but if we're talking just pure shooting guard i'd have to put dev in i think dev is the best shooting guard in the NBA uh you're actually playing phoenix tomorrow i don't know if you saw you know their game against the warriors the other night how they're you know they're down pretty much their entire lineup and beat the Warriors and Steph's return. What do you... Actually, Steph wasn't even back for that game yet. Was he? I'm not sure. No, he didn't play.

He did play. Steph did play. Steph played. He played. Okay, he was back. Okay. So you saw that game. Obviously, they're a scrappy team.

They lost last night to Denver on a back-to-back. They're obviously under man, but what are your thoughts heading into that game tomorrow? They're kind of in this... Right now, they're just trying to get wins however they can. Phoenix, they're in the same spot as we are. They got their star out, stars, whatever. We don't have Carl and a bunch of guys have been sick, whatever. We're just trying to figure out ways to get wins every night, man.

Just get wins that way. When this season comes down and there's 10 games left, we're in that race. You know what I mean? That's what it's about right now. All-Star breaks right around the corner. Like, we're just trying to dug it out, get wins. Whoever's available that night, just figure it out. Let's go play.

You saw them do that the other night versus Phoenix. I mean, versus Golden State. The tricky thing with these teams is when the star is out, they usually play harder and the ball usually moves more. There's a lot more ball moving. I think that's when coaching comes in, right? Coaching comes in a little bit. Yeah.

Coaching, yeah. Because otherwise it's just so tactical and so like, you know, when the stars are out there, the plays are for them, they get the ball. You just kind of just sit back and let them do their thing. Where as of now, you know, this is, you know, a chance for you to really get in there and coach a little bit. So that's what you'll see tomorrow night. You're going to see two teams kind of battling out with a lot of good pros.

Stars, you know, we'll still have some. I don't know if C.P. is playing or if he's back or not. Obviously, I know Devin's out and Aiton might be out, and they have a lot of guys out, actually. So for us, it's an effort thing. We're bouncing back off a bad loss versus Detroit. So the energy is going to be there for us. That's where we're at. Well, Austin, I know you have a game tomorrow.

I don't want to hold you up too long. Good luck against Phoenix. Looking forward to chatting with you next week. My guy, this is going to be entertaining. I love talking to you. Let's keep this thing going on. building and I hope the people love what we have to say. This is going to be fun, bro. Appreciate you.