The Ringer NBA Show - Zion Has Broken Our Mold of What a Pro Prospect Can Be | The Corner 3 (Ep. 335)

Episode Date: November 9, 2018

Duke’s trio of outstanding freshman surpassed our lofty expectations (1:38), the NBA’s shooting guard renaissance has caught us off guard (14:03), and we’re not quite sure if Milwaukee has what it takes to handle a tough West Coast road trip (34:37). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, guys? Next week, the Ringer will host their first ever crossover live podcast featuring Ryan Rusillo from Dual Threat and Kevin Clark and Robert Mays from The Ringer NFL show. They'll be at Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas on November 12th after the Monday night football game. For more info and links to tickets, check out the ringers, Twitter, and Instagram. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. I'm Kevin O'Connor and we are the Corner 3. Joining me here in Los Angeles is Ringer, Associate editor, Danny Chow. Hello, hello. And from Dallas, Texas, it's for your staff writer, Jonathan Charks. What's up, guys? We're produced today by Bobby Wagner, and we're recording this at 2.14 p.m. on Thursday, November 8th. Last night, went to a concert. I saw Mitzki at the Will Turn in Los Angeles.

And as I'm walking through the lobby before the show, I hear someone yell my name, Kevin, Kevin. So I stopped by looking at first. Okay, it was once. Okay, it's once. Fine. I'm so a Kansas celebrity now. Is that what's happening? And, yeah, spoiler. It was you, Danny. I turned and looked, and there you are. Yep.

I have a very distinct voice, especially when I say Kevin, because one of my favorite employees at The Ringer. Likewise us. Yeah, it was a great show. It was a fantastic show. I enjoyed her dancing. I wasn't expecting all that. That was cool. Chalks, you ever heard of Mitzki?

Me? I have no idea what that is. She's great. Give her a listen. Her own, Be the Cowboy. Anyway, Mitzky. Here's my music guide. That's my guide for all kinds of music recommendations.

So I'll check it out. Mitzky. M-I-T-S-K-I. Anyway, M-T-S-E-S-K-I. show last night. And her set list, it blended the old with the new. And that's what we're going to do today on the corner three. So we're going to kick things off with Zion

Williamson. The Duke freshman put on 28 points. 13 shots. He was outstanding in a season debut for Duke. They routed Kentucky 1184. John, it's just one game. But come on now. Zion Williamson was unbelievable, wasn't he? I'm here to overreact,

man. I mean, that was my first time seeing Zion. After watching that, I feel like anything is possible. Like, I'm just in awe three days later still. Look, this is one of the biggest, most hyped, arguably the best recruiting class in college basketball history. And we might not have hyped it enough. I think that's right, yeah. Like, I'm telling my friends don't even watch basketball.

Like, y'all got to watch a Zion guy, man. It's unbelievable. I mean, that's the thing with him, right? The dunks, they lure you in. You know, you see how he jumps, how it looks like he's floating in midair and just the power he flushes the ball with. But then you actually watch him play full games. And it's like, huh, this guy can do a lot on the basketball court. Right.

And every time... Absolutely. Yeah, every time you watch him, it's so hard to explain how fluidly he moves and how explosive he is. He's basically a guard. Played guard until ninth grade according to Coach K. Right. Except he's built like what...

Like Indomac and Sue or something. Like if Indomac and Sue is a shooting garden. Exactly. I mean, six foot six. I mean, I think six foot five without shoes on. So he'll measure like six foot six, six foot seven in the NBA. And then whatever his weight is. it's around 280,

right? 270, 280. He's heavy. I mean, the thing is, Javelle McGee is listed at 270, and if Javelle McGee is 270, Zion's probably like 320. And the thing with his weight charts

is that it doesn't slow him down, does it? No, and my thing, as I'm watching him, like, just from that first game, does he have the highest basketball IQ of those three guys? I kind of feel like his feel for the game is really high, even compared to two guards. Yeah, he made a couple of risky passes. he made the one in transition earlier in the game

and then there was a post-up, I think, in the first half where he tried to wrap a pass around and I think it either got deflected or a guy wasn't there, but that's okay because you're right, like clearly he has a basketball, like you had the two plays in transition where one, he rebounded it, one he blocked a shot

and he dribbled the ball, started going coast to coast and hit a perfect bounce pass off the dribble. Oh, the one to RJ? To RJ. That was insane. That was absolutely insane. That was like LeBron-esque. The best play of the game. You mentioned LeBron ask, John, is that fair to bring up LeBron? I never thought I would ever say this guy has some LeBron in his game.

I'd never thought I would say that. But how can you not say after watching that game last night or two nights ago, whatever it was? I think I slack this to John. I was like, I think this is one of those games that make you think, man, I wish we could have seen LeBron in college and what the fanfare and what that surreal kind of experience was. And Charts was just like, we may be seeing it right now. And it's not just LeBron, too. It's like the whole Miami Heat in college,

because you've got the two guard and RJ Barrett, you know, the big scoring guard, D. Wade, and you have the floor spacing star on Cam Reddish. Like, this is the Miami Heat of college. Absolutely. I mean, those guys fit together so perfectly well. We discussed this last week before they played, right? You know, RJ Barrett is your other alpha on that team.

The guy who can handle the ball, you can get buckets for you, can attack the rim. And then Cam Reddish, he just blends in perfectly hitting spot-up threes. The one thing I hope we see from these guys more moving forward is, a little bit of pick and roll. Like Duke's not going to run a lot of that. They never do.

But although three of those guys are interchangeable, like Zion specifically, he can either be the screener for you and screen and roll and throw down lob dunks, or he can run the screen himself with either RJ Barrett or Cam Radish or another player screening for him. And I think when it comes to his NBA potential,

that's what's so exciting that you can plug Zion into any number of roles and he can excel on all of them because of his combination of athleticism and basketball IQ. Zion might actually be the shortest of the three. Like, Cam Redish is probably 6'9.

He's probably going to be measured out at 6.9. And when you talk about interchangeability, like, these guys can be on either end of the pick and roll, all three of them. Here's the thing, too, like, R.J. and Camra great. But that whole game, I was like, all right, shall get the ball of Zion, please? Like, I are doing cool stuff,

but Zion is 11 for 13 from the floor. Like, this man's going to get an easy shot or make the pass every time. He's just, like, I think he might be the most natural distributor of the bunch, too. RJ and Camer kind of gunning for shots in that game. Zion just moving the ball, making the right?

It's interesting, right? Because I think RJ is a guy, conventionalism, is that he is the best playmaker of the three. He's the quote-unquote wing. Zion is a quote-unquote big. But Zion's basketball IQ is really good, as you mentioned earlier. He makes smart passes. He makes rhythm passes within the offense, and he can handle the ball, too. I think with him, obviously so much of it is going to have to come down to his jumper.

He hit the one spot up three. He hit the one pull-up two. But his shot creation ability with his handle is there. I think personally, John, I think his handle might be a little bit tighter at this stage in RJ Barrett's, which is interesting when you consider their personal difference.

It's crazy to say. It's crazy to say, but it might be true, yeah. With RJ, when you see him move down the floor, downfield, downhill, he has that kind of run-jump ability, but he's actually more adept at kind of changing gears and stuff like that. Like, his body control is amazing.

That's the one thing. Very shifty. His body control, his ability to finish through contact, The guy had 26 attempts, so he had double the attempts that Zion had. I don't think he shot that many free throws. And he only made two more shots. Right. He had double Zion's attempts.

They made two more baskets. The interesting thing with these guys is I feel like we've seen players like R.J. Barrett. There's like some Grant Hill on him. There's like DeMarreauze and there's some Penny Hardaway. They were comparing him to James Hardin on the broadcasts, which I don't see quite as much. But with the shiftyness, with the absorbing contacts, John Files. They tried to do it with Justice Winslow, too. You're left-handed, you know, win.

Yeah, if you're a tall lefty guard, yeah. Yeah, for sure. That's literally all it is, it seems. I think there's better comps for Broward, but with Zion Williamson, there's not too many, right? I mean, you can say, oh, there's some Charles Barkley in there. But Zion is quicker. He's more explosive. We'll see if the rest of his game developed to the elite level like Charles Barkley is.

I don't want to diminish what he did in his Hall of Fame career. But, like, Zion as an athlete with his combination of skill and size is just so unusual. and that's why people go to that LeBron comparison, which is probably unfair. LeBron James is the greatest player of all time, and he's one of the most skilled players of all time, one of the smartest players of all time. He's one of the best at virtually everything.

Zion probably not going to get there. However, I do think it's hard to figure out what type of player he is. We just haven't seen somebody like him before. That's what makes him so fun. I got a question for y'all. Let's say Zion was coming to L.A. to play UCLA or something.

And how many guys in the NBA would you rather go to like the Lakers, game over Zion Williamson if they were in town versus watching Zion live. I probably would take the Lakers game, but oh man, actually, I don't know. Like, seeing Zion jump live would probably be worth it. I'm saying, man, this guy is a show, man.

For me, it's easy. Come to the Lakers game. NBA's a better product. I'm sorry, it's a better sport. But I'm saying Zion's a more compelling player to watch to me than anybody in the NBA right now. I mean, yeah, we have to... Maybe because he's newer, but I think to me,

like I want to watch him to play. He's the shiny new object. That's true, John. But he's going to be around a while. I think what we saw for him, again, just one game, one game, not going to overreact here. But Kevin, we've been a podcast. What is the point of being reasonable?

Sure. But in this one game, a lot of the stuff that he does is translatable. I mean, I have little question that his passing is going to be fine, right? That his shooting, even if it's just subpar, if it's average, good enough. He has a role in the NBA as a guy who can set screens and roll who can take the ball,

rebound in an elite level, go coast to coast and make plays for you. There's guys like Trevor Booker who, Trevor Booker is a guy who can go coast to coast at 6'7, 6'5, 6'8, at a minimum of Simon Williams in a worst-case scenario, is going to have a role-playing situation where he can do those things. But it's just so easy to imagine him in that kind of draymond, four-on-three situation, in the short role, just making plays for each other, rumbling down. Like, Zion can do things that Dremont can't even dream of.

Absolutely. And, you know, you mentioned Dremond. Here's one of the interesting things with him, I think, with Zion Williamson. Today's league, smaller. You know, I think the point card position's a little bit bigger now. Center and Power forward are a little bit smaller. But across the bore, I'm pretty sure, like, the average weight to a player is lighter across positions because length and fluidity and speed matters more than, you know, brute force.

But Zion already, he has that speed. with his weight. I can see him being one of those players that he's somebody who can switch and defend multiple positions at least at a passable level, but he's also going to be the type of guy where he's a mismatch problem

on the offensive end. Again, and pick and roll situations where if you switch on him with a smaller guy, he can just bowl through that guy, but if you have a slower... He can bowl through bigger guys.

It doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter. You're right, because of his combination, but he can play down low too. We saw him in the post. He can play all over the court. Dude, he's going to get so many free throws. That's the thing like what Danny was saying

last podcast. He's just a little bit of the line. Absolutely, especially at the college level and it should translate to the NBA. I'm excited by him. I haven't ranked players yet, and I'm going to hold off for as long as I can before actually ranking guys just because I don't like putting them in order too early. But Zion, certainly,

I think there's something there for him to be number one. I think there's a real argument for him over RJ and over Camer. For sure. That's not even a question. There's an argument. That's a given at this point. I mean, there are some people, though, that don't have rank him quite as highly because of the question about his jumper. even despite that, I mean, special, special. These weren't like the rare players where like,

you could have watched for five minutes that Kentucky game. Okay, it's like 35 to 10. All right, this game is over. Zion dominated. Yeah, that's one of the classic, you know, scouting tricks is you bring a person who just has no idea about the game and you're just like, okay, tell me in five minutes, who the most important player is.

And if that person can correctly identify it, then you've found a talent. It might have been kind of tough in that game, though, when you're comparing RJ Barron and Zion. Liamson and Camernerner. See, I don't know. I don't actually know. If he watched that game, Zion was dominant. Yeah, he was obvious. Camerrottis was pretty remarkable too, right?

I mean, I, I think they're good. There's been so much Zion talk and hype this week. Understandly, we're leading the show with it, right? Right. But RJ Barron was pretty damn good on Tuesday night. They were, what, two points away from outscoring the entire preseason number two in Kentucky. Like, just the three of them by themselves, 83 points. Kentucky scored 84. That's really, really remarkable.

Charks, I'm curious about this. I mentioned in my article after that game that, you know, maybe Duke runs the table. And, you know, the guys on One Shining podcast, Mark Titus and Tate Fraser talked about, you know, Duke potentially, you know, making a undefeated run. They pointed out how the ACC is really, really strong this year, that they're probably going to drop games. There's going to be somewhere along the line where they just lose. But we could be talking about the top three picks in the draft who all fit perfectly at the college level. Do you think that there's a chance, a chance, despite their tough schedule,

that they can go undefeated? I think the biggest thing, like, ACC road games, like, they're not, I don't think I'm going to try how deep they are. Like, if Zion gets two quick fouls against Virginia, or RJ gets, like, three fouls, you know, in the second half,

something like that. I think foul trouble on the road, college officials, that's probably how you get Duke, is control tempo, get him in foul trouble, slow the game down. Right.

And I think maybe like Virginia, I would say Virginia is a team that could do that. I'm really looking forward to those games, where we get to see, you know, Nazir Little, we get to see DeAndre Hunter go against R.J. Barrett, Cam Reddish, Zion, all of these guys.

Like, who they end up taking as their main matchup. It's going to be, I'm stoked to watch the season develop. I think it's going to be, the draft isn't quite as strong, perhaps, but I do think there's a lot of interesting players to scout. I feel like the top of this draft, though.

To me, I don't see why his draft is in the third week, at least it's at the top. Those three Duke guys, man, they can be drafts tied any draft. They're skill sets. Moving on and the kids are all right, a segment we use to discuss the youths of the NBA. The Ringer published its fourth video of a series called The Leap by J. Kyle Mann from the Dime Drop. Shout out to Kyle. Shout out to Kyle. He's awesome. Dime drop is good stuff.

Anyway, the latest one was about Nuggets Guard, Jamal Murray, who scored 48 points, almost 50, not quite. He definitely tried for it. He tried. Ask Kyrie about that. Kari Irving was incredibly salty about Jamal Murray taking that last shot. Jamal Murray has made some progress this year. He's averaging 18.5 points, not on great scoring efficiency, Danny. Yeah. But have you seen anything from Jamal Murray this season

to suggest there's more to come for him this year? That's always kind of been my hang up with Jamal Murray. He tends to get off to these really rough starts to the season, really poor shooting numbers. And you always get these games where his previous career high was, I think, like, 42 against the Blazers last year. And you see it all. Like he has the confidence.

He has the moxie to get wherever he wants in the court. Certainly has a confidence. That's for sure. Yeah. But I... Not lacking there. My whole thing is like I just haven't seen it consistently over a long enough stretch. Shooting only 30% from three so far this season.

35.5% for his career from three. Charx. I know you and I actually looked up one of your old articles while Jamal Murray in the Ringer before the 2016 draft before recording this. Hey, these takes expire, KOC. No, no, no. I mean, I mean, you and I actually look at you and I. are, we're 100% on the same page with Jamal Murray prior to the drafts.

You made the point that, like, we know this guy can score. What else can he do? I always need to try to remind myself right now, he's 21 years old. Very young. He's 21 years old, and he's already having high scoring games, and he's gotten better each year. So I'm encouraged by his progress for sure. I mean, he's really, really solid player. But I do have questions still about the rest of his game.

Are you still on the same page there, John? I think for me, like the value I see in Murray I didn't see two years ago is the type of player he is. I think as the league has become more of a three-point shooting league, I think we're seeing like the next great generation of two-guard. To me, Jamal's a two-guard. He's playing out of position in Denver.

I think if you look at that 48-point game, he played a lot with Monta-Morris at point. I think that's where Jamal's at his best, is just gunning for shots. And so you have these generation of young volume-shooting two guards. And they take like six, seven, eight-threes a game I think those are the kind of players to become increasingly valuable.

You have guys like Jamal Murray, obviously Devin Booker, Donovan Mitchell, Zach Levine. I think those guys are kind of stepping forward this season as a whole new era of two guards. For sure. And with Jamal Murray this year, according to the second spectrum on NBA.com,

he's shooting 29% on catch-and-shoot threes compared to 42% last year. For him to reach his peak, he needs to find some level of consistency at the three-point shooter, especially as he does perhaps ease into that two-guard role right now Gary Harris is a better overall player and the guy who has that role in Denver

and I think for him it could be a while until we see Murray in the quote unquote proper role for his game but I'm encouraged I think this year he hasn't necessarily looked better overall than he did last year but he's doing it more he's performing equally well on a higher volume

of shots and that alone is encouraging it's also easier when there's just a more stable base of talent on this Nuggets team having Paul Millsap be kind of a rock for the team is obviously beneficial on both ends of the floor. And he's just, you know, there's a little bit more continuity going on to that team. That's going to help a shooter.

John, you mentioned how two-guard could be the proper role for Jamal Murray, one guy who was drafted right before him in 2016 drafts. One pick before is Buddy healed, the Sacramento King's shooting guard. He does play in that traditional two-guard shooting role running through screens, occasionally running secondary pick and roll. But he seems to have the type of role that you would like to see for Murray. Yeah, buddy has the pletons. iconic ideal. So he's

averaging 20 points a game, 2.4 assists and 2.6 assists, 2.5 turnovers. Like, Buddy's here to get his shots up. He ain't here to pass the ball. It's not his role in the team. I think that's what makes... It's made him so effective in Sacramento this year. His role makes sense to the Aaron Fox. So I have

a piece coming out, actually today, which would be Friday, about the biggest winners of this NBA pace boom. And I did list Buddy Heald and the Kings as one of them, mainly because this This is exactly the type of basketball that Buddy Heald should be playing. The guy, if you look at the average speed on all of the players who have played at least 25 minutes,

Buddy Heald runs about 4.7 miles per hour, which again, these speed numbers don't mean anything, but when you watch him play, it makes complete sense. The guy runs really, really hard on every type of situation. He will, like, try to, like, bowl over people curling around screens and just rising up and firing. The guy is a violent runner for a spot-up shooter. Buddy Heald, I mean, I wrote the Clay Thompson article the other week where it's like, just keep your eyes on Clay Thompson. I love watching him run through screens and juke and change speeds and change directions.

Buddy Healed is not clay, but watching him off ball is quite entertaining. Also, I mean, at this point, considering he's been in Sacramento for, what, two and a half seasons now, is he already one of the best shooters in the NBA? Oh, dang, he shouldn't 40% from three. I didn't know, like the past, yeah, ever since he came to the Kings, he's been shooting at least like 39% from three. In this season, Cori in the second spectrum, he's shooting on 38 attempts, small sample, shooting 55% on catch and shoot three-pointers.

He's lethal, and he has been lethal for a couple years now. Some of these guys, like, granted, he came in older, you know, after his senior season in Oklahoma, he's 24 years old now, but he was a late bloomer in high school, a late bloomer in college, and it's looking like he was. was a late bloomer in the NBA now. This is his third season and his first real breakout year. He showed signs last year with his first full season with the Kings. But man, like I really think Buddy Healed is establishing himself this season as a guy who's going to be in the league for a long, long time because of his shooting ability. But also his secondary playmaking is not bad. He's a solid

passer, isn't he, Danny? Yeah, absolutely. That was one of the things that I've noticed because there's so much space going on and because things are just flying up and down the court with Sacramento. I mean, the passing lanes and the viewing angles that he has now are easy. So he's just making the simple play now. He's playing on the expectation of the defender being like, oh, this guy's just going to be shooting it. There's a lot more to Heald's game now that the space is so wide open. He's kind of a rigid player, but because there's so much room for him to operate, you know,

it's becoming second nature for him to just make the right play. Like Buddy Heald, another player who spent four years in college was Josh Richardson. He was not a lottery pick. He was a second round pick. Went 40th in the 2015 NBA draft. And this season from the Miami Heat, he's dropping 20.7 points per game and what is a breakout season for him as well. He's a guy who's made progress each year.

He's improved his three-point jumper. He's someone who at Tennessee was a solid all-around player, solid two-way player. But I'm not sure I could have expected him to be this good this soon, John. How about you? Yeah, he's been great. I think the other thing that separates Josh, and the other two guards are talking about us, he plays defense. He's a very versatile defender.

And to him to take seven threes a game and make them at like 40% is incredible. Like that kind of player, that kind of volume three point shooting, plus the defense. Like I was telling you all, Minnesota should make that trade tomorrow Butler for Richardson.

They should do that. I think it'd make them better right now. Josh Richardson is so well-rounded that I can really see him blossoming in any situation. Like I would love to see him play next to Luca Donchich. Oh my gosh.

I was wondering where your reaction that would be charks Man I would do that so fast Oh my God The thing about Josh Richardson is He kind of made a conscious decision During the off season As did a lot of these players

In realizing if I just cut out Maybe three mid-range attempts per game And tack those on to my three-point attempts My game opens up exponentially It was something that Chris Middleton Also realized this year Thank you Thank you Coach Bud

Thank you. Absolutely. Yeah. And so it's such easy math that you figured, you know, everyone would be doing this. But, you know, it takes a while for these types of players who, you know, are a lot based on rhythm to kind of get used to the, you know, the biomechanics, the muscle memory to actually just start gunning from three. And like John said earlier, you know, even putting aside his offensive development, he's a guy who defends. He defends really well. And really important player for the Miami.

You mentioned the Jimmy Butler trade, John. If you're Miami, do you really want to trade Josh Richardson for Jimmy Butler who's going to get signed to a massive max contract next summer, whereas Richardson is on a team-friendly deal for the Miami Heat right now? I don't know. You have Richardson signed through the 2021-22 season, and that year he's going to make $11.6 million. He's a player option for that year, so he's got to opt out. But still, he doesn't make over $11 million for the rest of his contract.

Whereas Butler is about to make 30. I'm not sure if I would feel good about that if I'm Miami, John. Would you still go for Jimmy Dollar? I think, yeah, I think Minnesota missed the boat on this. Josh Rogers can be so great next to Carl Towns and Andrew Wiggins. It'd be incredible. That was the trade to make and they missed the boat on it. I'm not sure I was there for them anymore.

I'm not sure what's going to be there from Minnesota. I know I had her early in the process the Clippers and Mavericks and Miami, of course, made some strong offers. and then, you know, you heard about Philadelphia was in there as well. Brooklyn, I'm not sure these teams are going to be giving the types of offers that Minnesota would have hoped for or that they may have had earlier in the process. I think what's going to end up happening is Jimmy Bolter gets traded like in January for something far or less than anybody would have been happy for.

That's rough. It's going to be bad. Chips is like The Joker in the Dark Night. He just came to Minnesota and burned all their money. Like he just lit it on fire. Oh, man. And a quick aside. you know, last night before I left for the concert,

Carl Anthony Towns had a great first quarter. He was fantastic. He was playing two-way basketball, blocking shots, hustling, hitting shots, making good passes. I was like, oh, my God, this is cat. This is the cat in Minnesota needs. And I saw his stat line after getting home, and I saw the tweets about how bad he was.

And I was like, how did this happen? Like one great quarter that just dissolved into just another bad performance by cat. that Minnesota situation is really a shout out to the Timberwolves experience. Oh my God. It's sad. Carl Anthony Towns should be so much better. And it's not like it's Butler's fault. It's just it's not,

it's Towns's fault ultimately. It's just disappointing. It's Tibbs' fault, man. It's just Tibbs' fault. He's built the very bad team. The coach can play a role as we found out last year with Malik Monk. He was in Steve Clifford's doghouse the entire season. But this year, he's playing 23.3 minutes per game.

And he's looking pretty good. He's still shooting the ball as he did. in college, but he's also passing the ball as well, which has been a new element to his game that I've enjoyed watching. With the Charlotte, you're looking at a team that's built around screening for a guy who could shoot threes from way out. So they have Cody Zeller, they have Marvin Williams, they have Michael Kid Gilchrist, all very good screeners for their positions.

You know, you put another guy who can shoot like Kemba Walker and good things are going to happen. You just need to have them on the court. Let's give a shout to my guy Miles Bridges, though. He's been killing it. Oh, yeah. You see that dunk against the hawks when he reved up on him? I was terrified because it looked like he was just going to land flat on his back and like snap his head back. That was one of the most violent dunks I've seen in a long time.

Like he demolished the rim on that play. Extremely violent. All three of these guys we've mentioned on Charlotte fit together pretty well. I think with Kemba and Monk, your backcourt has some defensive issues. But on the offensive end at least, you know, whatever. We're talking offensively those guys fit well. I think with Monk's ability, you know, I heard pre-draft with him. there was some concern, at least from some executives

that he doesn't care about playing point, that he just wants to be a two guard, he likes to score, he doesn't want to playmate. But in college, he did show the potential to make good passes to playmate for and create for others. And we are seeing a little bit at the season. I think that's incredibly encouraging

because he needs to do that. It needs to be more than just a score, especially on a team with a point guard like Kimba Walker. Yeah, I think with Monk and Bridges, this is like the most exciting Hornets team in years. it would be hard to try to pigeonhole Malik Mung into being like this caretaker point guard you're not going to get a lot out of him

if you're asking about that. J.R. Smith is one of his potential outcomes which is not a bad thing. J.R.'s a good career. If you're going to have him on the floor and you're going to put him in scoring situations, I think that kind of opens up his willingness to do other things. He's one of those guys who you know, you get a couple buckets in. Sky's the limit. I mean, we saw that. What was that 47 point game in college? Was that chart?

47 or 48. Yeah, against U.N.C. Well, to me, with Monk, you want to see them with, like, a big point forward type, like a Ben Simmons. Like, if you were Philadelphia, would you trade Monk for Fultz right now? Chris Ryanwood.

I mean, I remember at the time, before the draft, I wrote an article, like, the year of the trade down or whatever. I didn't expect what happened to actually happen. But I wondered, you know, at the time, maybe the Sixers should trade down from three to, like, seven,

and get Monk. And looking back, I mean, I think they, made the right decision to trade up. It just hasn't worked. But in an alternate universe, Monk absolutely would be the perfect fit for that roster in Philadelphia, 100%. Fultz could be, but not looking great. I mean, you look at JJ Redick just screaming down court, catching these, you know, just instant rise and fire threes.

And you're like, Monk can do this. Monk can absolutely do this. I think the argument against that for Philadelphia is really simple in the sense that, like, they got Landry Shamet with the 26th pick. and he can do similar things that Monk can and maybe will end up a better player long term. Granted Monk, I think, still is higher upside. Shamically buried Markell at this point.

I mean, it's possible. That's sad. It's really a sad situation. Markell's a good kid. And I hope he figures out, but I've lost a lot of hope in his situation and his chances. I think if he goes somewhere else,

I think he'll be fine. Maybe he'll be fine long term, but I'm not sure it'll be in the family. But when you say fine, like do you mean do you mean fine in the sense like how are you doing today I'm fine or do you mean like oh he's gonna be fine I'm talking to Kevin O'Connor today so I'm doing great I'm doing great I don't know I just I don't know man I like what is fine for Markill well I think he's rebuilding his jumper he's showing clearly he's made progress

and so like you know he was making progress like three or four years now maybe he can be back to what he was like he's shown he's going the right track now finally but it's just going to take a long time yeah it's going to be hard for him to basically just escape that number one designation. So what we're saying is Markell Fultz, not in the two-guard Renaissance. Not in the two-guard Renaissance. No, he's not scoring or playmaking or doing anything

at the same level as Jamal Murray, Buddy Hill, Josh Richardson, Malik Monk, among others, including our last guy here, Zach Levine. He's been killing it, man. He got paid, getting paid $19.5 million through the 21-22 season. And this year for the bull,

he's dropping 27.4 points per game on 20.1 shots per game, shooting the heck out of the ball from three-point range. Still Duncan like he always has post-torn ACL. Levine is a guy who has certainly panned out into the player that the most optimistic people could have hoped for. Look at those to me, look at the free throw attempts. The man's getting eight free throw attempts a game this year. That's really incredible from where he was earlier in his career.

Yeah, and with Chris Dunn, being out with his MCL sprain. I think there hasn't really been a real lead guard. And so, you know, Zach Levine has kind of taken over, doing a lot of pick and rolls with Robin Lopez, who probably is one of the best screeners in the league. He's getting wherever he wants, and he's shooting the three with confidence. I think one of the things with this two-guard renaissance is, one, obviously all of these guys are playing in space.

But two, I feel like a lot of these teams are also figuring out, oh, we should be putting the ball in our best player's hands. And a lot of these teams are figuring out who their best player is. And Levine is their best player right now. At least on offense. If you're factoring out defense, he's still a sieve on that end of the floor. He can't defend anybody. I mean, there's still flaws in his game outside of scoring.

But the fact is, that dude can get buckets, right? And there's value in having a guy like that, regardless of the type of the league is. And with two guards on the rise, I wonder if part of that is maybe a less of a demand for a traditional point guard. Like you mentioned Chris Dunn being out right now where the ball. is distributed, the playmaking, the ball handling role, you know, is evenly distributed different players of different sizes and different shapes. And for Zach Levine, that opens the opportunity for him to him handle the ball a little bit

more, too. He's encouraged me. I feel good with Zach Levine. I think Chicago actually, like, I'm a Chicago optimist now. I think they've got a really nice future. If you have Lurie Marcanon coming back in like four weeks or something like that. If you have those two guys plus Gwendole Carter plus in their top five pick, hopefully a big wing point guard type. Big wing point guard

type? Seems like there might be a few. That's what I'm saying. This team could really be turned around pretty fast for as bad as they've been this season. I think they've got a lot of nice pieces. With Zach Levine, with guys like Harris Lavert and Josh Richardson, who are just seeing like enormous spikes in their scoring average.

They're playing like they're the best player on their respective teams. That's really encouraging to see it. You mentioned Lavert. He's probably my favorite of the bunch. I think Lavert, draft the 20th and 2016 by the Nets was a calculated risk with his foot injuries that he had at Michigan. But every year, his scoring average has increased from 8 to 12 and now 21. I mean, he's pretty much taken DeAngelo's team from him.

He said, this is my team now, bro. I don't care what you were drafted. I'm the captain now type of situation happening there. Totally. Like, DeAngel, you're okay, but this ain't your team anymore. This is over for you. Levert is pretty much doing everything that he did in college at the NBA level in terms of just I guess herky-jurkey, you know, weird little movements that he uses to get to the rim.

He can finish with either hand. He can create space to pull up. And his shot isn't great, but it's good. He can play-make. He can defend. He rebounds for his position. That's the thing to me is the playmaking. Yeah.

That's really, if you can play on top of the scoring, that's when you become a really next-level player. Yeah. And there's a lot of, like, poise and control in his game. That's very important because, you know, for the past couple years, while the nets were just complete garbage, they played at one of the fastest paces in the league. Now they're actually down near the bottom. And that's a lot because they're kind of being a little bit more methodical because they have passers.

They have guys who know how to play the game. Leverts been the cream of the crop right there. Leverts a keeper, and he's another guy, you know, to tie this to Jimmy Butler, he's another player where I had heard that Nets pulled him off the table. They were not willing to give Karris Leverton a deal for Jimmy Butler. They wanted to give D'Angelo Russell, from whom I heard, if there were a deal. Yeah, I bet they did.

Yeah. But, you know, it's easy to see why they wouldn't want to give up Leverd. I mean, it's crazy. Like, if you were to say this preseason, and obviously, I think you heard it preseason, most people would be like, what are the Nets thinking? Yeah, you're not going to give up a guy who scored 12 points for a game, you know? But really, you know, Leverd is somebody who... And aren't they thinking they can sign Jimmy for free next year anyways?

At this, you know... Right. Yeah. And that's, that's going to be part of the equation with any Butler deal. I don't know. But with Lavert, his pick and roll play, scoring in isolation, he can play off ball or on ball. Defense, he does it all. I'm stoked to watch him develop with the Brooklyn Nets.

I think he's their one player that can, if you're picking one guy in that team that can make you feel optimistic about their future, he's the guy. For sure. He's the guy right now, for sure. Let's throw an all the past of the weekend and look at the games we're most excited about charks. Tonight, the Bucks face the Warriors, so we're not going to be able to discuss that. But they've lost two with their last three against the Celtics and the Blazers. And then obviously on Thursday, they face Golden State. And then they have a back-to-back on Saturday and Sunday against the Clippers and the Nuggets, respectively.

John, what are you watching for from the Bucks after their little sputter last couple games? I think the thing for me with Milwaukee is I must watch them their second unit. I mean, a West Coast road trip against great teams every night. You've got heavy reserves. And of your reserves, like, so right now the second unit is Ilyosova, Henson, Conaton, DiVenzo, Tony Snell. I'm not sure, I guess Ilyossova, but who those guys do really trust against an elite team right now. And those are the kind of guys who have to keep getting better over the course this season, if they're going to be competing with the best teams in the East.

Have the Bucks been staggering Janice and Middleton? Yeah, they're staggering like crazy. They're doing all kinds of lineups changes all the time. I wouldn't be too worried about their secondary players, to be honest with you, John. Eliasov and Lopez, you're right, those guys aren't perfect, but they also are one of the reasons why they're able to shoot at the level that they do, the amount of three-pointers. But you look at like,

with Ilyossova last year, Boston really attacked him in the playoffs. So if they play Toronto or Boston, he's got to be up, he's got to be ready for it this year. Fair. I mean, but are we talking about this team as a championship team?

As an Eastern Conference contender, I think, for sure. Maybe not, you know what I mean? Like, they're on that level, I think. I certainly think with their hot start, you kind of have to put them in that categorization. They're probably, you know,

one of the top three, four teams in the East. So with that, with how wide open everything is, I think, yeah, I think they're definitely a finals contender. Let's shout out Big Raghu, DiVincenzo. He's playing right away, jack and shots. I love his confidence. I always appreciate when a coach gives a rookie opportunity right away.

Yeah, Dante is out there just playing ball too. He ain't trying to be real passive or anything. In their first game against the Clippers on Saturday night of that back-to-back, Clippers have been quite interesting this year. They're six and four. They play on Thursday, so we'll see how that changes for them. But I've really, really enjoyed watching the Clippers play this season. Gallinari, looks healthy.

He's been back. Tobias Harris. Knock on wood. Yeah. Yeah. Knock on like a forest of wood trees. Yeah, everybody listening to the show, please knock on wood. Seriously.

Gallo is and has been just a very, very, very good offensive player. If he were healthy at any point in his career, we could probably say possibly an elite offensive player, considering all the things he can do, but we just haven't seen it. Gallo is one of those guys where he was that he could do it all player. in his prime with the nuggas. He could run pick and roll for you. You could playoff ball for you. He can play make a little bit.

He could score from at the, he can get to the rim, he could draw falls, he could pull up. We're seeing more of that this season, which has looked good for the clippers, but even aside from him, you know, Toby Harris, very good.

Yeah, those two are great together. They're killing it. They fit perfectly well. Lou Williams, continuing to do what he does off the bench. Shegilded Alexander, what are your early impressions of him, John? I think he's the best guard in that team already,

arguably. I think to me, the two guys who've impressed the most who've moved themselves up the rotation that's Shea and Bobon. Those guys probably should be... I think Boban's starting. I think Shay probably should be starting.

Boban took Gortat's job. He said, go to the bench, bro, you're done. Oh, yeah, Gortat is cooked. He's cooked and he's not happy about it, but there's really not much you can do about it when Bobon is just like... What are you going to say? Exactly.

I like the Clippers. They're fun. They're fun to watch with Bobon, man. He's a must-watch TV. Do you think this recent run of games and how promising their, I don't know, their hodgepodge of players have looked. Do you think it's going to help them at all with the offseason race? Well, you know, that's the difficult thing with that team, right?

Is you look at their upcoming free agents. Some of the guys were mentioning Tobias Harris, Boban, Patrick Beverly, Luke Bahamute, are going to be free agents next summer. So you're going to have to let go of some of the good stuff in order to get something greater, whether it's Kauai Leonard or whoever else. Here's my question for y'all. If you were Jimmy Butler, would you rather go to the nets to the clippers? If you're factoring in where you want to live, I'll take L.A.

However, New York's pretty cool, too, though. Yeah, New York's a great city. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I know, I think Jimmy weather could be a factor. We'll see about that. But in terms of team, in terms of roster, in terms of path to winning, I think I'd prefer Brooklyn because of what L.A. would have to sacrifice on their roster in order to create the cap space necessary to sign two max players.

Well, just signing one, though. If you're probably Jimmy to see Jimmy, this is your team. Jimmy would look great in a net's uniform. I think I'm going with Brooklyn. Brooklyn could be good real soon. I mean, they're already a, it's not saying much in the Eastern Conference, but they're a playoff team in the East. Brooklyn has some nice young cheap talent

with Jared Allen, Karris Levert, Musa. A positive net rating? Joe Harris, $7.6 million. There's some pretty good young talent on that team. There really is. I mean, I think you think I make the playoffs right now, KOC in the East? They're in the mix right now. They're in the mix right now.

Brooklyn, yeah, I think they can make it. If Washington doesn't get better, it's open for them to kick a spot. Second night of the back-to-back, they face the Nuggets, who have, you know, they've been great this season. Nicole Yokic had a game earlier this week where he didn't attempt his first shot until the final possession of the game. Very unusual. I think with Denver, we talked about them earlier in regards to Gary Harris

in regards to Jamal Maury. Nicole Yolkich is the guy where I think you need to feed him the ball. Just need to feed him the ball. He can't go a whole game without getting a single shot. That is inexcusable. Yeah, and you listen to the Nuggets broadcasts. It's brought up all the time. It's like, okay, this is the possession you need to get Yokish the ball.

You know, more often than not, it's usually actually Jamal Murray with the ball in his hands late. So I would love to see more clutch Yokic. I would love to see more everything Yokic. I think one thing worth pointing out at Denver is their young guys are playing really well at the second unit. So Trey Liles, Hernan Gomez, Malik Measley, even Monti-Morris. Like, their young guys are really stepped up. It's going to more the depth up and down that roster to be a legit team. Yokic in October, average 13.4 shots per game.

This month, he's shot 5-9-3-1. That's not enough, man. It's kind of shades of last year's weird start where Yokic, I think for the first three games only took like seven shots total or something like that. It was really absurd. And there's always going to be that kind of knock on Yokic in, you know, levels of assertion that you see from in the game.

Worth pointing out too, though, who's the point guard in this team? It's quote unquote, Jamal Murray, right? Like, who's the guy that's like, I got to get the ball and Yolkoch and run the offense? These guys all looking for their own shot for the most part, all their guards. Yeah, I mean, me and Chris Vernon talked about this on Tuesday, their guard rotation, they don't really have that traditional

point, right? It's Yokic, but... It's Monta Morris. It's Monce. Yeah, yeah. Morris has really taken that role, and I do wonder when Isaiah Thomas comes back what type of role he'll take on. problem. Yeah. You got more guys who jackshots. Well, that was good guys. That was a good time. That's all we have time for today, unfortunately. Danny, John, stoked for next Friday already. Thank you.

Yeah, it's fun. Get us more Zion. Looking forward to, I think they face Army on Sunday. Yeah. I mean, that'll be a... Well, they got the Maui shootout coming out. That'll be fun. That's coming up soon. I'm sure we'll talk a lot more college basketball. We will definitely, we can promise you, there'll be more Zion talk. That's going to happen. Thank you, guys. Thank you for listening to the corner three. Please give us a five-star rating on iTunes and tell your friends, tell your family about the show. You'd make us so, so happy if you do.

Special shout out to Bobby Wagner for producing the podcast and to my really good friend, Elon, for listening to the show. And thank you again for listening. We'll be back next Friday. Have a beautiful weekend.