The Sabrina Zohar Show - 105: Why You're Not Making Progress In Your Healing Journey With Masha Kay

Episode Date: November 1, 2024

In this episode, Masha joins Sabrina to dive into why so many struggle to see real progress in their healing journeys. They explore how lasting change starts with radical accountability and self-regulation—shifting away from seeking external validation and advice. Masha and Sabrina discuss how true growth means taking responsibility without self-blame, focusing on self-awareness and setting realistic expectations. They explain the importance of regulating the nervous system, responding mindfully rather than reacting impulsively, especially in relationships. Together, they emphasize engaging authentically with your inner child and building grounding practices that align with your needs. Healing, they argue, isn’t about chasing new strategies but using the resources you already have to foster an empowered foundation for personal and relational growth. Get Masha and Sabrina's new course on presale! Nervous System 101: Navigating the Unknown in Early Dating HERE! Struggling with a breakup? Join the Make It Make Sense: Getting Through a Breakup course from Sabrina and Britt Frank HERE! Stuck After the Podcast? Master Implementation in 8 Weeks with Sabrina's Foundation Course HERE! Get Ad free and 2 Bonus episodes a month HERE! Want to work with Sabrina? HERE! Don't forget to follow Sabrina and The Sabrina Zohar Show on Instagram and Sabrina on TikTok! Video now available on YOUTUBE! Disclaimer: The Sabrina Zohar Show, formally known as Do The Work, is not affiliated with A.Z & associates LLC in any capacity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to another episode of the Sabrina Zohar show. My name is Sabrina Zohar and I am your host. Welcome back, babes. Guess who we have back in the studio today. We have Ms. Masha, our nervous system expert and just one of our faves. And you know what, guys, I'm not even going to ruin what this episode is about because you guys can find out as you start to listen. And I just want to get through our intro so that we can get to the meat and fucking potatoes of the episode and you guys can enjoy it.

But without further ado, and before we get into that, I just want to remind you guys, please don't forget to rate and review the show, share it with a friend, subscribe, follow along on all the socials. It helps us to keep growing and just tell your friends about the episodes. It's all I ask. And of course, use polite language when we're going to review the show, please. And again, guys, don't forget, Masha and I just created a course. And so her episode coming out launches our pre-sale today. So, guys, grab it. It is helped with the first zero to three months of dating.

So we addressed pain points like texting and dating, the uncomfortable, what are we conversations so that we could help regulate your nervous system and give you guys the tools that you guys need to progress beyond the three months. I am so grateful, guys. Anything you need is the link in show notes. If you want to join any of these courses, if you want to just be part of the community any further, everything is in there. And guys, I'm just so grateful.

Thank you, thank you for everything. And thank you for showing up as you and allowing me to show up as me. So without further ado, let's get right on into it, shall we? What's up, Miss Masha? Welcome back for another week. I'm excited. Oh, it's so funny because I used to, when we had you on, I used to do like part one, part two. And then after a while I was like, let's drop that all together.

That's really cute. But I'm excited. I'm excited to have you here before. Well, actually, no, by the time this comes out, Chloe is going to be here. She's going to be here. She'll be here. But nonetheless, we needed to get one more episode before the end of this year, before baby comes in. Because I think, realistically, I think you and I, you and I.

we work with a lot of, there's a lot of crossover with the people that come to both me and you. And you and I have talked extensively of like, why are people not seeing the results that they want to see, right? Like, what's the issue? Where's the disconnect? And this is the episode that we're going to clarify where the fuck the disconnect is. A hundred percent. It's so interesting, like having these conversations where you and I come from slightly different perspectives, but we are often working with similar people, sometimes the same people. and to really start to think about what is it, right? Like to have that nuanced conversation of why are some people healing and some people still struggling and staying stuck? And so I always look forward to these conversations because I feel like in between the last

one and this one, we have more conversations, we have more clarity, we work with certain people and have conversations that feel really important. And then we get to extract that and share that. So I just really look forward to these. Me too. I'm excited because I think today where I kind of wanted to start was like, we're just going kind of go through some pain points, I think. That to me and like we'll kind of elaborate on them. But these are, I think, are the main, what, like five or six repetitive things that we continue

to see as to what is holding you back. As somebody personally who has gone through this, like, I can only really speak for myself on this is like, I learned very early on, like, you are in your own way for a lot of this journey. And you are in your own way for a lot of the healing. And like once you get to the other side and start to really see that, I want to also clarify what the other side looks like. I think people think that the other side is going to look like you're going from like, you know, a fucking like Mad Max type city and then all of a sudden you're going to utopia. And it's like, no, no, no, no. You can still, have you seen the world we live in? Like, we're still in Mad Max. This place is fucked. But at the very least, internally, you have a

little more clarity. And I'll actually, I'll share a quick story before we get started. I did mushrooms this weekend. And I'm very open about that. I go, fuck. I love, I love psychedelics. If you're not into it, that's cool. That's not your thing. But it is mine. And I think it took a little too much. Like, it was just scosh too high. I actually don't think I told you this. And I was so in my head, it was like kind of insane. I was not even conscious of like half the thoughts I was having.

And I stopped for a second and I was like, oh my God, that's how my brain used to feel. It was so hectic. And I was, I mean, talk about the synapses were firing. I was worried about things that were like a year and a half away from now of like, what are we going to do? We hate our landlord. How are we going to get a referral for our next department? Like things that you're like, you clearly don't need to be worrying about this, Sabrina, like, you'll figure this out. But really in that moment, for just a brief second, the reason I'm actually so grateful that it happened, I wasn't enjoying it just in case. I understand how you guys feel.

I know how it feels. But for that moment, for just a brief second, I was able to stop and be like, holy fuck, look how far I've come. Just because you do this healing work doesn't mean that all of a sudden the world becomes clear. But what ends up happening is your inner critic, those voices start to die down and you're able to find more presence in the moments to be able to adjust and do what we need to do and regulate and do all of those things. You still go back to there. You still have moments. But to me, that was such a lovely takeaway of, okay, if we think that we haven't grown, I understand the thought process of every person because I went through it again. And it is maddening. It's like inside out. You literally have somebody pressing buttons constantly to like release this

anxiety and this pain and this fear and all of those narratives. And so I think that's why I'm so excited today to kind of talk about steps and things that people can actually do because at the end of the day, like, that's, I think, the difference is like it's not that all of a sudden your world is going to change. But what is going to change is that inner world and inner dialogue becomes a lot more manageable to deal with. A hundred percent. And I think that if we're trying to answer the question of why are people not healing? Why are people getting so stuck? I think that's such an important starting point of what are we really expecting to happen here? What's a realistic expectation? And I don't mean realistic of like, you know, don't get your hopes up too high.

I mean like, what does healing actually look like realistic? And I am so with you. I have those moments. I honestly have had those moments like during pregnancy, which brings up a lot of emotion and dysregulation. There's a lot of change. And to have the moments where all those fears and insecurities are coming up, but just noticing how differently I relate to them, right? Like, there are moments of intensity that I hadn't experienced in a while that this brought on because of the changes, the identity changes, life changes, all the things. But it's noticing how differently I relate to. And I would say, to me, that feeling of healing, and again, not that we're saying anybody's ever fully healed. That's not what we're expressing, but like when I felt like I got to

the other side, like you're saying, what is that other world that people are moving towards? I I would say there is a sense of empowerment in that, and it's not empowerment. Like, I can do anything. It's empowerment in the sense of ownership and responsibility. Like, this is in my hands. I have power over this. That doesn't mean everything's going to be perfect, but I have power over how I perceive this and how I handle this. And there's a sense of discernment, the ability to discern. As those crazy thoughts come up, can I discern which ones are true and which ones might feel true? but they're actually not. And I feel like that's been the biggest game changer.

I have that discernment. I still have those crazy thoughts popping up like you were saying. These fears that don't make sense, these insecurities, they happen. And I want to be really honest about that. I think people think they're going to stop happening. Like those voices are going to disappear. They have not disappeared. They're quieter.

They're more manageable, but they're very much still there. But now when they happen, I have the ability to discern of like, yeah, you know, that feels true, but I know I can't trust that voice. And right now, just the ability to discern that I can't trust that voice and I need to take action to regulate myself to get to a point of clarity that feels empowering. And taking accountability and ownership, I think let's even just start there. Let's talk about what it's not. And I love your statement and we will get to your your fun quote. When we say take 100% like radical accountability, radical accept, you know, all that stuff, that doesn't mean that you take accountability for what happened.

in totality, right? So like, that doesn't mean, oh, it's because I'm too much and I'm this and I'm this. It's like, no, no, no, you're not actually taking accountability. You're trying to blame yourself in order to justify the other person's behavior so that you don't have to actually stop to say, well, wait a minute, radical accountability would look like, like my ex for instance, yes, he was a narcissist. He's all those things, right? But at the end of it, at the core of it, I also allowed it. I was also like, and we have to talk anything outside of abuse. We are not talking. about physical abuse. There is no place or time for any of that. So let's just call that out. Outside of that, right? We're just talking about, like, I had a therapist Ginger Dean on a few weeks

ago talking about toxic relationships. And we were kind of going into like, especially patterns, right? If you're like, I always date the avoidance. It's like, well, then you have to take accountability of your fucking part in this and how you are showing up. What are you willing to allow? It's enough of, no, no, it's everybody else. And it's him. It's them. It's her. It's she. It's they it no one understands me it's like listen snowflake i get it you feel like you're on an island i was hurt i would tell my sister all the time yeah how could you say it's all me like it's other people and it's like well you're right it is also other people but it's also you because like when i got the cease and desist you knew i mean you were there for all of it i could very easily have been like fuck that guy

he's such a piece of shit this isn't fair okay i definitely thought all of that like don't get me wrong i'm a human i definitely went through all that but then i stopped and i was like you know what Sabrina at the end of the day, sure, you can blame all this and play victim and woe is me. And I was like, or, or you can regulate and come back to now because I thank God I was with you at that time. And I was able to go, oh, okay, cool. I went back to being a seven-year-old. Got it. But then after I was like, no, you know whose fault this is? Nobody but mine. I didn't trademark it. I didn't look into it. I didn't have the money. I didn't have the foresight. I'm not going to shame or blame myself. I'm not going to say because I'm a fucking idiot and I'm so stupid. No. But what I am going to say is

my part in it was, yeah, I really very easily could have just contact. a lawyer to find out how this was going to go. Would that have changed things? Who knows, right? Like, would I have necessarily made a different decision? Probably not. I probably was still gone with it. But instead of making it about everybody else, we have got to learn how to bring it back into words without shame or blame, but just taking accountability and responsibility. 100%. And going back to the 100%, 100% means not more, not less. Less than 100% responsibility is blaming others, pointing the finger. excuses, cop-outs. That's less than 100% responsibility. More than 100% responsibility is the

shaming, the putting yourself down, like, you don't understand this means something about me, making it like this personal thing, like there's something innately wrong with you if you made a mistake. 100% is in the middle. It's, I am owning what happened. I am asking myself, what is my role and what do I need to take ownership and accountability of, meaning what is it I need to take action on based on what I'm realizing I've been allowing, the mistake. mistakes that I made, whatever it might be. Again, it's all about taking the power back. And yeah, I think sometimes when people here are taking 100% responsibility, they kind of feel like we're being harsh, right? They're like, what do you mean? I can't blame. But we're actually not being harsh.

In fact, we're empowering you. You know what's harsh, not having ownership over your life? Feeling disempowered, feeling helpless. And that is exactly what happens when you're either taking less than 100% and blaming and pointing the fingers, you feel like a victim, or you're taking more, right, and shaming and blaming yourself. You feel so disempowered. You feel so stuck. So this is really about taking the power back. And you said, you know, I have this quote, and I always talk about this in my courses, that you need to take 100% responsibility, 100% in every single area of your life. And when I first heard that idea, I thought it was harsh to. And I actually heard it.

I think it was on a podcast. I think it was Dr. Amen, to be honest. And he was telling a story. And he was telling a story about his wife, that she went to some event and she heard this like mindset shift that he has carried with him. And basically, I think at the time, she had cancer. And the speaker had asked his wife, how much responsibility do you want to take for that? Yeah. Oh.

And she was understanding. offended, right? And then he goes, I am not saying how much of this is your fault. I am asking how much responsibility, because responsibility is your ability to respond. So how much of the ability to respond to this horrible thing that's happening do you want? Do you want 10% 20, 90? Most of us would agree. No, I want 100% of the ability to respond. And to me, that really stood out. This is really about taking your power back. And I think you're right in your example of what happened with you. That's exactly what you did. You owned like, what of this is mine? What do I need to take care of? How do I take care of myself? And then how do I address this? Blaming and shaming wouldn't have

helped. Pointing the finger would have made you feel like a victim. And so you allowed yourself to feel it. Those voices were all there. I heard them. And then you sat with it and took action. Have you ever had a moment where you think, man, someone. should really do something about this. Then you realize, maybe that someone is you. Well, with the help of GoFundMe, you can change someone's life. You could start a GoFund me to help a friend pay for school, fund that new community space, or help a local kid finally get to that national competition.

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to have the ability to respond. Like I remember when we were doing ours and I was crying. I was like hyperventilating you even said you're like scream and I screamed like this blood curdling yell. And like it I remember even at that moment I was like it's too intense and it was like, don't just say with it. And then it was like, you know, like the storm, right? And then all of a sudden it settled. And I remember just like getting my breath and then opening my eyes and looking at you. And I was like, it's called the Sabrina Zohar show. And you even were like, do you want it? And I was like, do you want it? And I was like, No, that's the name. I was, I could not access that had I not allowed myself to feel and process and let that little girl scream and let her have a tantrum. Like, for fuck's sake, can someone just let little Sabrina be herself without trying to control it and to hold space for it? But then once you do that, it's like, and it's the same with dating. Obviously, I'm talking about a business situation is the same fucking thing if this dude is acting like a schmo. If this person that you're dating is treating you like shit, but yet all you're doing is going around to all your friends and being like, but, why, why, why, why, why, why, and give me advice, you're not actually going to be able to

internalize any of that information. 100%. And I have to, you know, give you credit in that moment and, like, what we did in that moment. I think it's important to break it down. I think it's exactly the same. I know people might think it's different. It's exactly the same. Like, something that's really important to you was being taken away from you. You felt hurt by this person. Someone was coming after you. Like, it's really no different. In many ways, I think it's even more extreme, right? But in that moment, you heard those parts of you that were trying to problem solve. Like, there was a part of you that was saying, how am I going to do this? Well, what should I do? Right? Like, that part was coming up. And what

you and I did in that moment was we acknowledged her emotions, but we didn't let her try to process that. Like, we almost kind of kept moving the conversation back to how you're feeling in the present and what's happening for you and what your emotions are. And I kind of kept moving the conversation away from talking about what are you going to do, what's the future going to look, anything that's kind of like cognitive and planning and future thinking, we kept steering away from it. And you noticed those parts of you wanting to go there and we kept steering away. And it's that steering away and coming back to what's here in the present, what's here in your body, feeling your emotions, validating that afterwards, that innate wisdom just comes and you were like,

yep, I know what it's going to be. And you did. You had this instant clarity, but you did not get that instant clarity by brainstorming, by trying to understand what his motives were or how this is going to all work out. And by the way, I think we actually had started that conversation that way before everything kind of blew up. And it wasn't really going anywhere. We were kind of just, we were discussing it. And you were more or less regulated. But you were still, you were saying, you know, I've been feeling anxious for a little bit. And we were discussing it, but it wasn't giving you clarity.

And then this big thing happens. You have all this emotion. We give you space to feel it. We do not allow you to go into why, but how, but what. And then you, you have instant clarity. Isn't that remarkable? It's incredible. Now, let's clarify. Not going to happen for everybody, right? Like, that might not happen. But that's the road of in that moment, I was like, wait a minute, I do get a choice, right? But you even said, you were like, those are big words, right? I was like, I feel powerless. I feel hopeless. I feel helpless. I felt, and it's like, and then you kept saying, that's so big words. And when we went into it and I was like, I'm back to being a kid again. Like, there it was. But you had said something to our client that we have, and you had said something

beautiful that I wanted to elaborate a little bit more on when it comes to this healing. of like, you don't negotiate with that child, right? Like, how do you actually handle in those moments? Like, if we're trying to even just get to that baseline of like, that was the gist of it, you're like, you don't negotiate it. Like, you don't bargain with this child. What are the right steps when it comes? Because I think a lot of people do that of like, come on, just can you stop?

Come on, could you please? Or like, hey, I don't give you five more minutes. It's like, no. First and foremost, I want to make this clear before we even talk about this. Again, just reiterating what you did and what I want everyone to take away from this. is when these moments are happening, it's about acknowledging that you're dysregulated and taking ownership of that. We're taking ownership of what is happening for us internally, how we're feeling. That is 100% our responsibility. It is not our partners. It is not the world. It is not this got

none of that. It is 100% your responsibility. I just want to bring that home because that is the foundation of what we're talking about. And once you start acknowledging that, okay, it's 100% my responsibility to deal with this, then it's going to be what's happening for me in my nervous system. Am I dysregulated? Are there younger parts of me coming up like there were for you, which we heard just in your verbiage. We heard you saying powerless. We heard you saying these really intense words. And so it's acknowledging, okay, there's a younger part of me coming up. There's old pain coming up, right? What do I do with that? Okay. So you took ownership. You're acknowledging that. Now, at that point, don't negotiate with that part. That's where a lot of

people go wrong. They kind of just want to be like, okay, Masha said that I should talk to my younger part, and I'm going to talk to her, and I'm going to say all the right things, and she better respond well. Imagine you went to your kid that way, right? Like, your kid is struggling. You come to them. You say all the right things that you read in some book, but you say it with this like tone in your voice of like, okay, I love you and everything is going to be okay, right? You say it with this voice of like, I need you to get over this. Like, are you done yet? Do you think that's going to work? Now it reminds me of my parents. You know, and your mom is like, just shut up, stop saying.

And you're like, what? I used to do that to my mom all the time. I'd be like, no, my mom doesn't want to go out because she actually said this. And she would always yell. And I'm like, but then don't lie to me. Right? Like, don't lie to your friends and don't lie to your kid. I'm like, I'm six.

I'm just going to say what you say. 100%. It's the same thing that, like, you actually need to be present with that child. You need to give them space. And what I'm talking about is, you need to give yourself that space. Not come in there with the intention of feeling instantly better so you can come back to solving the problem. But to come in there with the intention of being with. And yes, sometimes it really helps to have another person there, right? Like that's what happened with us. We have to be honest. It probably

happened faster because you had support in that moment, which is why you and I are such a big proponents of having support to do this work. If you're doing that on your own, it might take a little bit more back and forth because that part of you saying, like, I just want to get over this. I just want to figure it out. And then you have to keep coming back to like, I just need to be with. What do I do to support myself to be with. That's really the question of like, if you're negotiating, you need to acknowledge there's a party that's really dysregulated and can't even stand to be with this child. Again, the question comes back to ownership of like, what do I need to do to support myself right now to be able to be present with myself? Again, not to problem solve. This is like the number one point.

I know I keep like reiterating this, but it's so important in the moment you're going to want to problem solve. You're going to want to ruminate. You're going to want to figure out what are they doing. Well, what should I say to them? Well, what should I do next? It's resisting the urge to do that and coming back to yourself and noticing if it's really hard to be with that child. Okay, asking, how do I make this a little easier for myself? Do I need to reach out for some resources, for some support? So I could just be with this child because right now I'm negotiating. And honestly, that's making that child feel so much worse. To add to that as it came to me last minute, here's also a reality. You can't just go to them when you're pissed at them, right?

Like, I, something I love to do, I still have iTunes because I've had it for so long. I have songs downloaded from when I was like 15. Yeah. Like, I've just had the same iTunes and I've just, it's been accruing. And I've cleaned it up over the years. But sometimes I'll just go in my car and I'm like, Russian roulette, go. And like the other day, a newfound glory song came on. And I was like, oh, man, for anyone who knows NFG is like, that was in my middle school days.

and I drove down the street, like screaming those lyrics and, like, dancing in my car. And just, I was like, oh, God, I remember my sister. I used to love this song to let little me know, like, I don't just come to you when things are bad. I also come to you to be like, hey, you know, we handled that really well. Like, hey, I see you. You love this song. Like, let's do it. Or, you know, of course I'm going to buy something pink because she loves it and we're going to go for it.

So I think, too, like when it comes to all of this, because at the end of the day, like, we want to be able to know our strengths and our weekends. is because I think the reason that we're asking you to first fucking regulate and not just like, okay, I worked out. Now what? Like, nah, girl, that ain't regulating. To, like, actually do something for you is because then when you're at least seeing things a little bit more clearly, right? You can also see if you're like, oh, am I the red flag? Right? Like, how often you and I get specifically me and Jesus Christ with the right ends. And it's just how this person's just all of these things. And you're like, yo, so you want to take no accountability or ownership for the fact that like, oh, so thanks for sending me that screenshot of you sending that guy 73 text messages in a row and paragraphs and all the, oh, but all of a sudden that person should just be able to have space for that, right?

Like instead of looking and being like, yeah, you know what, I actually didn't really handle this that well. And truthfully, to be able to say that, you do need to have already regulated a little bit, which is why we keep kind of pushing this idea of ownership first, of really, understanding if you're feeling really stuck, if you're feeling really overwhelmed in situations, the first step should always be going inward of like, am I 100% right now? Is my nervous system dysregulated? What about me might be distorting the situation? And if the answer is, yeah, there might be a tiny bit, now the work is going inward, not going out there, but going in here. And I feel like that's what people are getting wrong over and over again. And I see this with you, like when you share with me what people are writing into you and the questions they have,

what I hear is a lot of highly dysregulated people looking externally for the answers. And they are asking you very tangible dating advice and like rules and this and that. And you're giving it to them. You're giving them the best possible advice. And then like, yeah, but it's just that they're not able to take it in. And that's what I wish people understood that when you're dysregulated, someone could give you the best information. They can give you the answer.

They could give you the magic pill. And you would not be able to implement it. You would not be able to take it because your dysregulation would not allow that to come in. Because it's in this protective state of blaming, pointing, looking for an answer outside of yourself. Right. So it doesn't matter how good the answers you're giving these people are if they're disregulated. And you could tell them they're disresulated. regulated, but a lot of them kind of don't want to hear it, which is where the ownership comes back

of like, if you're not making, taking 100% responsibility, 100% ownership, the number one step of this work, of your healing journey, you're going to really struggle. You're going to get the best advice. You're going to get the best support even. You can reach out to the best people and they're going to tell you exactly what you need to hear and you're not going to be able to take it. And what are you going to do? You're going to keep going for more. I need more. I need more support. I need more answers. I need more rules. Instead of realizing, wait, something is happening within me. I need to just kind of point that mirror to myself and start just getting curious and looking. Even just that curiosity is going to be the precursor to that regulation. I'm not expecting

them to come to you regulated. But if I could wish anything upon them, it would be that awareness of like, oh, shoot, what am I not taking ownership? That curiosity about like, what am I not taking ownership for that if I did, maybe then I would have clarity. Maybe then I would be able to take Sabrina's advice. Well, that's why we get back to the like, I need more. I need more. I need more. I need more. And it's like, no, no, no, no. That is going to be a huge disservice in your healing. Huge. The content, like, I've, I had a client that I worked with many moons ago. And it was always, no, I need more. Okay, well, I did that one thing. So now what else? And it's like, yo, I'm not chat, GBT. I don't just like fucking spit out.

7,000 more. It's like, no, sometimes like, sometimes it is rudimentary. Sometimes it really is just like, put your fucking feet on the floor and feel the ground, right? Like, there is a reason why tools like breathwork, meditation, yoga, mindfulness. Like, this isn't just like a fun buzzword that somebody sponsored and was like, oh, yeah, just, it's not like the fucking corn industry that they were just trying to push it. It's like, no, these modalities genuinely do something for you. So we see this all the time, almost day in and day out of like people that'll come and it's like they've downloaded every guide. They've listened to it.

They've intellectualized the living fuck of it. But they want more. I want more. I want more. And to me, I think it's like, if you have all of this inundation, and that's still not enough,

you fucking open Instagram or TikTok, and you could get 17,000 different schools of thought to see what resonates with you. If with all of this inundation of information, which people did not have prior to all of this, then you can't still do it, then what makes you think more is going to do it because what I see here is you're just running away,

right? It's just let me, it's like varucosol, oh, you're, but I want it now, daddy. And just give her more, give her more, give her more without stopping to be like, hey, what's causing that, right? Like where is this like insatiable, I can never like satisfied as hunger need coming from for more information? And I think that is actually harming people more than it's helping people. I completely agree with you.

I think having so much information is making people more confused and more dysregulated than ever before. I truly think it is harming people. I think it's making them. They're looking to feel more empowered. I think every time they get more, they feel more disempowered. They feel like the answers are somewhere out there and I don't know anything, which is completely not true. I fully believe that so much of what people come to us looking for, those answers are completely within them.

My job is simply to help them access that wisdom that is already there. That clarity that they're looking for in rules and what should I do and how should I say this? 90% of it is already there within them. They just can't access it because they're disregulated. So you're 100% right about this information and how people keep thinking it will help. And if, again, if you take nothing else away from this of if you are consistently looking for information, you are dysregulated and more information is making you more dysregulated. So if you could just break that habit, delete social media for a bit, stop looking for answers outside of yourself and get support and going inward and accessing what's within it.

thin, you would be so much better off. But I will say what you were saying about the tools and the repetitions or just like, did you practice it enough? Did you try it enough? There's two points I kind of want to get across when it comes to the nervous system. So the first one is all those tools you mentioned are amazing and they're really powerful. And they take so much repetition. Oh, God. Right? Like I know I've said this fact to you a billion times, but the research that shows that you need 300 repetitions for muscle memory and 3,000 for embodied. I didn't know that. I never share that on with you?

So like 300 reps? 300 reps. So journaling. For that to work to the point where like it's a little bit of like you're just reaching for it, 300 repetitions. Meditation. Breathing. 300.

But it takes 3,000 for embodiment. Meaning in a moment of stress, in the intensity for you to reach for that modality, you're going to have to have practiced it 3,000 times. That's years. Yeah, that's years. So all these people who are like, yeah, I try that. it doesn't work for me. Did you even get to 300? My guess is no. I can almost bet you didn't get to 300. And I will say one more thing when we're talking about the nervous system. So that's one.

Repetition for the nervous system is huge. And most people are just not getting there. And so the brain too, right? It's like if you're going down a new dirt road, like you need to create pathways that are going to take time. Those are the neural pathways that you're creating with that repetition. And that's what's ultimately going to change your nervous system. The second thing, and this is more nervous system related, is the tool you use. The tool you use, use, it needs to be attuned to the state of your nervous system. So, for example, meditation, meditation's an incredible tool. However, if you're in a really dorsal state where you're shut down, meditation removes you from your body even further. That's the exact opposite of what you need.

You need to come back into the body. You need practices that allow for mindfulness, reconnecting with your body, with sensation, with emotion. So meditation is going to pull you out. You're not going to feel like you're not even there in the same way. way that, to be honest, if you're in sympathetic, meditation also won't help. It doesn't help. Your body thinks there's a tiger and you're trying to convince it to sit still with your eyes closed? Do you think that's going to go well?

No. It doesn't help, but often makes you more anxious. So meditation's an incredible tool. But that's a tool for me to use when you're in eventual state and to practice to build that muscle. But it is not a tool to use in the moment. So that's another reason why people try things. This doesn't work.

Give me more. It's not about me giving you more. It's about you understanding what state of the nervous system are you in and what tools work for you and your unique nervous system in that state. And by the way, some of them are really tiny. It might just be feet on the floor, one deep breath, a walk. That's what I found. The most effective tools are so simple. I probably don't even need to teach you them. You probably already have them in your arsenal. You just don't realize their tools and you don't realize when to use them and that you need to practice using them in those moments of it. disregulation to get to that 300 or 3,000 mark. One thing that I've learned, at least that's helped me probably more truly than anything else. Two things. One, put your fucking phone down.

Your phone does not help. There are very rare times unless you're going to play music or something or call somebody. Yes, those two things are great for regulating. Right. Like for me, like put your goddamn phone down. But the second thing that I've started to get really accustomed to when you've got me into this is like, what do I need right now? And so often I know you hear this.

I know I do of like I need them to text me I need them to do I need clarity I need them to reassure me and it's like okay that's external what do I need right like the other day I had that I was just so anxious I don't know why like I was just it was oh I don't know why hi you bet me I was I was just rumen it you know I was just like on my my hamster wheel of worry and it happens and I was sitting on the couch and like again I kind of noticed and I literally stopped and I was like okay whoa I'm doing it and I was like what do you need right now and I literally looked at my phone and I was like to put this thing down And I put it down and I was like, you know what I need right now to fucking cuddle with my partner and watch this shitty show that we're watching? Because it's really entertaining, you know, like my trash.

Something as simple as that. Like for me, I never really, like you said, I didn't realize for so long. I was regulating by really big exhales. I always. Yeah. Ryan's been making fun of me. Every yoga class he's like, God, how are you? How audible are you?

And I'm like, I need to release it. Walking. I mean, I got, when I, Clem and I were, we hit 40,000 steps a day because, oh, yeah, New York. We were, 25 was our baseline. Because we'd go out in a two-hour walk in the morning and then another two-hour walk shortly after. Because I would do all my work for my phone. So I would be out at 6 a.m. with him and I would take him to Greenpoint and back. That was like 8,000, 9,000 steps already.

I would do that loop like four times a day with him. That's incredible. And then I'd come back and be like, okay, now I feel good. Like, I just needed to. Isn't it brilliant that that was your body regulating? Like you have a lot of sympathetic energy. And even before you understood what that meant, your body naturally was drawn to the things that would release it. And yes, you know, ultimately the goal is to,

kind of get back to ventral, but when you didn't have access to that, your body was naturally guiding you towards a tool that would support you. Like, that's brilliant. That's incredible. When I get dysregulated, no, I don't happen to all of my, oh my God, let me pop up on my toolkit. Like, no, girl, that goes out the window. You know what I do? The first thing I do is, whoa, it's in my body. I'm feeling it. She is not, even though I was just telling you this morning, I was like, I know she's not seeing this clearly. Like, the water has too much sand in it. I don't know what's happening. Need it to settle. I go for a walk. That's my thing. I go for a and I call my mom because it just makes me feel safe.

I feel like I have someone. If I can't get in touch with my mom, I put music on. That is my way of dealing with it. I'll send you a 15-minute voice note so that you have a dissertation to listen to. They're my morning podcast about it. So like things like that, those little bits of connection just feel where you're like, okay, I mean, I do have some control over my life. I think we really need to understand that like you don't need more tools.

You just need to master the very few that work for you. So first of all, with the toolkit, like I always have my clients create a toolkit, but I don't know if you remember this from the course. The toolkit is things you already have. I teach you some basic breathing. I teach you, that's pretty much it. Maybe some little tiny hacks of like using your hands on your body and breathing. I would say those are really the two big tools that I teach pretty much all the time throughout the entire six months. Other than that, I fully believe you already have tools in your toolkit, you're just not aware that they're tools. This is exactly why I'm such a big proponent of understanding what do these states feel like in your body? What do you lean towards in those states? What

works for you? That observation, that curiosity, everyone wants to get out of it. But by getting out of it, there are so many clues that you're missing that would make up your toolkit. Right? So like, you're absolutely right. It's noticing, oh, you know, calling my mom really helps me. Going for a walk, deep sighs. Those little shifts, cuddling with my partner really helps indorsal, but in sympathetic, I don't really like to be touched. Those little nuances. Again, I'm not telling anything groundbreaking. I didn't teach you anything. It's your own awareness. Again, the answers are within you. They're not out there. You don't need more tools. You need some basic understanding of your nervous system. Yes. Yes, I could help you learn to use your breath because that's a powerful one that's always with you. Outside of that, you have

have 90%. I think it's so interesting. Like, we all seek more information. I'm a little bit of a nerd for this stuff. You love all this stuff. Like, we love it. I think what people are getting wrong is that 90% of your healing is stuff you already have within you. It's just practicing really basic things that you already know. That's 90%. The information we're all seeking, that's the bonus 10. Like, you're going to get 90% of the way there. And then once you're at that 90% mark, you're going to be like, I still have a little bit more. That's when you can reach for more information and kind of go to that advanced level. But most of it is a really basic level that you already have.

Everyone listening to this already has it. That you are not practicing and committing to and taking ownership for coming back to day in and day out every time you get triggered. That's 90% of the progress you are wanting will. come from things you already know that you just need a tiny bit of refinement, a tiny bit of support, a lot more practice. And then the information you're seeking, don't go there until you're at that 90% mark because that information will be helpful, but only for that last 10%. It's kind of how I think about, you know, I'm into wellness, like vitamins and supplements. The vast majority of your health will come from doing the basic things of like changing your diet, sleeping more, going on more

walks, connecting with more people. Again, no one needs to teach you about it. You just need to do it. That will give you 90% of the results. And when you hit that ceiling at 90%, let's add in some supplements, let's add in some biohacking, all that wonderful stuff that you and I love, that is the last 10%. Do not start there and expect a miraculous change. You will feel nothing. You will feel no difference. If you just start supplements or start taking ice baths, nothing, nothing will change. It's going to be a hot take. If you have listened to every episode of this podcast, specifically of the ones that you and I made, and at the end of it, you're still coming to me saying, but I just don't get it.

Sure, I get that. Like, that's valid. Then we have to say, then you're not actually absorbing the material because that's then to me intellectualizing. If you can listen to everything that we have created up and will continue to create, And it's still like, because I get DMs every day of like, holy fuck, dude, like 10 episodes. I'm 10 episodes and my life is changed. Like, holy shit.

And you're like, yes, yes. I speak to those people. I speak to your people all the time being like, I listen to these five episodes can really transform my life. And now I'm wanting to get to the next level because no one's ever healed. We're on our healing journey. Ever. It's continuous, right? But 100% I speak to these people.

They're in my programs. They exist. They exist. And it's like, yeah, we see it every day. So those are just like, okay, cool. You're understanding the material. And it's okay. Again, this isn't a knock to be like, oh, you don't get it. No, it's an awareness of like, then there's a disconnect, right? To me, I get that when you consistently intellectualize, you're

refusing to be in your body. And every time we've all had it and I've had those people where like every single time I'm like, cool, how do you feel right now? Well, but like this isn't. And you're like, no, no, no, I asked you how you felt in your body right now. Well, but then it's like, no, but my brain knows that. And it's like, I get it. Your brain understands cognitively. You're not a fucking idiot. And no one listening to this is stupid. If you're listening to all of this information and you're still just going, yeah, but consciously I get it, but I can't connect the dots, then I have to say, like, where's that radical accountability of what we're doing? And I just want to be clear. I completely agree with you.

And I think what you and I are both trying to say and what you're trying to say here is we're not saying you should have listened to these episodes and come out healed or been able to implement everything. No. That would be completely an unrealistic expectation. even the people you and I are referring to, they were not able to do that. We are simply saying if you're still asking for more tools and I don't get it and talk about this more, you're not taking ownership of like, oh, shoot, I'm not implementing because my nervous system is dysregulated. That's the connection I see these people making who are saying like their life is changing that I've spoken to of like the people who listen to you. They are not suddenly different people.

They have simply finally realized like, wow, I keep going out there and trying to. trying to, you know, do better in dating and fix this person and respond differently and set the boundary. But what I need to do is regulate myself, be present in my body. And I can't do that. And I struggle with that. So I'm going to reach out for more support, whether that be for me, from you, from other practitioners, other modalities. But that clicked for them, that the problem is not out there. There's something happening within me that I need a little extra support, a little extra practice. I need to commit to. I need to take ownership for. That's the connection they're making that I think you're saying the people who are struggling are not making.

It's not that everyone is implementing everything. You can't listen to a podcast and become a different person to start to implement. That's not exactly how we're not ever misleading people with that. We're really honest about it. We're just saying you're probably not making the connection that it's in here. I don't need more relationship advice. I don't need more tools. I'm not able to make some kind of connection and I need to reach out for support.

of there's many different options to help me do that before asking Sabrina for more tools or more relationship advice. Here's the beauty of it. You actually do have power. You do. And like you had said earlier offline, which I'm not going to pretend as if they know what I'm talking about, was that the words that you use are a cue to your nervous system state. And I think when we like just constantly feel like if I get one more goddamn email, I love you guys, of course, send them all day. I don't care. but we're just at the end. It makes me sad to see all of this. And then it's, what do I do? And I'm like, what do you do is you come home to yourself and make a fucking decision for yourself? Stop asking me. I will never. I say this to every client that walks in, anybody, I will never tell you what to do. That is not my job.

I will never, because I'll get in, this guy's all of these things or this girls, all this, what do I do? And I'm like, you can regulate a nervous system. You can start to tap back in. You can maybe figure out what your needs are, communicate with them. But I'm not going to say, and then they'll wipe up. But so do I break up? So do I break up? So do I break up? So do I break up? But them are not. And it's like, I cannot tell you what to do. You have got to make a decision because here's a thing. It's so easy to go, well, but Sabrina told me to do it. And then you don't actually, versus if you do it, you're like, oh, fuck, I'm actually making a decision for myself. And as a child, I was not allowed to do that. And now I actually do have power over my life to a certain extent. 100%. Like what I hear you saying is like, you're right, that is sad. More than anything, I think it makes us sad. And we talk about this a lot offline. It's sad because in that I hear someone who really is so disconnected with themselves, does not trust themselves, does not believe in themselves. That is really heartbreaking. And they're looking externally for those answers in that clarity because they do want that relationship. They do want that partnership. They do want to feel better. And I hear you. And in that more, moment where you're feeling so helpless, I know that taking ownership seems like the last thing you want to do, but we're not asking you to take ownership for like, well, go figure it out. I'm just asking if you're going outside of yourself and looking for answers of like, how do I handle this relationship and I need more rules and all of this, you're feeling disempowered, which means you need to take ownership for like, hmm, this disempowerment, what is that?

It's a sign that you are highly dysregulated. You are not present in your body. you do not have a healthy relationship with yourself, that's what I want you to take ownership for. And when you take ownership for that, your questions is going to slightly shift. It's going to shift away from, well, what do I do with them? Well, Sabrina tell me what to do next? And it's going to shift to, what do I need to do to support myself right now to get to the point where I even have access to clarity? Because when you're dysregulated, you do not have access to clarity. You will not be able to problem solve. It doesn't matter what anyone says to you.

They can give you the perfect solution and you will not be able to take it in. And so the best thing you can do is take ownership for something is happening within me. I need to get curious about that and then maybe need to support myself through it. That's my responsibility. And, you know, coming back to this idea of responsibility that I know I'm really big on in today's episode, but it's not the other person's responsibility to regulate you or, you. protect your energy or meet your needs. I know that's like a crazy thing to say it is not their responsibility. It's their responsibility to do that for themselves. Yeah. And it is your responsibility

to do it for yourself. So in that moment, that person's not meeting your needs, you know, is not acting the way you want to act. Again, the ownership's not on them. It's on you to think, what do I need to do to support myself to first get to a place where I can think clearly. And then once I can get to that place, which is a regulated place where you won't feel like you're spiraling, then I could ask, what do I need to do to support myself in this relationship dynamic? Do I need to communicate something? Do I need to spend time on my own, whatever that may be? But that is secondary to recognizing I am dysregulated. I need to support myself. I, you know, you said it before, something like, well, they need to do this, right? It's like, that's not their job. If you're dysregulated, it is not their job. job to change their behavior to regulate you. It is your job to regulate yourself, to notice you're dysregulated and get support wherever it is available in a safe and healthy way and then figure out

how to communicate with them through that difference. Because I get that all the time. You made me feel anxious because of how fast you talk. And it's like, so that's my fault now? So I now have to own how you feel? That's a lot of pressure on me. So I'm like, wait, wait. So now I can't just live my life. I can't just authentically be myself because, and I hear this all the time, like, well, this person made me feel small and it's like no they didn't make you feel that you felt small because of so like even like when i i remember when when we were going over the cease and desist thing and i kept using those big words of like i feel helpless i feel hopeless i feel like i have no control he didn't make me feel any of those things that situation triggered me to feel like a child who felt helpless and

out of control then when i got my head on and like regularly did all the work that i needed to do and i came out the fucking gate going here's the name I didn't ask 20 people their opinion. I didn't come to you prior to that. I would have come to you, Masha, what do I do? I just don't know what to do. But then when I regulated, I was like, nah, I know what to do. I've come back home to myself and I'm listening.

That's what we're saying. It's not that, yeah, you do have the answers within you. And sometimes that answer might be, I actually need to take a minute. I need to take a minute. I don't know as an answer. Confused as an emotion. Like, those are all valid. Mama has been saying this to me for years.

If you don't know what to do, don't do anything at all. She's always said that to me because when I'll be like, I don't, like with the name thing. And she was like, then Sap, don't make a decision right now. Do not make a decision when you're clearly not in a place to make a decision. And it's the same with like, don't fucking text this person just because you're feeling anxious. Stop calling people. You made me feel this. And when you didn't call me, you made me feel this.

It's like, take fucking ownership. I felt this because your actions triggered a part of me and I felt like I was being abandoned. Okay, cool. I could do something with that. But if you come to me and tell me, you made me anxious. Really? Oh, so me just, so let me just get rid of myself then because me just merely existing. So I now have to know.

Instead, how about, you know what, Sabrina? The words you said really triggered me and they made me anxious because I realized, fuck, maybe there's something to explore here. That I hold space for. But I will not take, I will never and nor will I take, will I, do I like to even have those conversations? Anytime you made me feel comes up, I stop and it's like, hey, okay, cool. So we're not present right now. That's okay. Because it sounds like a child.

You made me feel sad. because a kid doesn't know how to process their emotions. And what you said about when you were feeling helpless, it's like the fact that you felt helpless is completely valid, right? However, it's not that you are helpless. That's not true. And it's not that he made you feel this way. That's also not true. You are feeling powerless.

Powerless is an emotion. Emotions are sensations in your body. You do feel those emotions in your body, and it is important that we acknowledge that. it is important we don't project that onto someone else and say this is someone else's fault. So you go change your behavior. So I don't feel this in my body. I could express that I feel this in my body. I could express that something you did made me feel anxious, right? Like you did that and then I felt anxious. Okay, that happened. I felt anxious. And maybe I could even, if we're in a safe relationship, ask you like, hey, would you be willing to change that behavior or to do things differently? And you have

every right to say, no, I'm really not. Right? So like when someone, tells you that you speak too fast and it makes them anxious and they're demanding that of you. That's really absurd. They're not taking ownership for their emotions. They're not taking ownership for they can't sit with sensations in their body. They're also not even taking ownership for it's their choice to listen. Yeah. Right. So they could tune out. Again, you are not in this like mutually reciprocal relationship where they're coming to you and being like, hey, the way you speak is a little intense for me. Would you be willing to change? You guys are not in that kind of relationship. So demanding that if someone does not make sense, right? And again, I'm saying all of this because it also doesn't make sense to do when you just started dating someone. Tadda. And you are demanding. You're saying, you're making me feel this way. And you have to do this and you have to text me this many times. You guys don't have that built up yet. They don't owe you that. You have to take ownership where you feel anxious. And you could ask, hey, is that something you're willing to do? Another person has every right to say, no, I'm not willing to do that to make your anxiety go away. I think that's your job.

and they wouldn't be wrong. And they might say, sure, that's not an issue for me. I like texting. But again, they do not owe that to you. No. One of the biggest signs of an anxious attachment is such a deep rooted discomfort in their own body. So what do they do? They change the environment around them.

That's why when people come to me, somebody this morning, you curse too much. And luckily, I had all of my followers being like, then get the fuck off her page. The reason that she's here is because she gets to be herself. Guess what? Move on with your life. Stop trying to fucking change people. Stop trying to manipulate people. Stop trying to control people. And stop using all of these theories. Letting somebody be who they are isn't a fucking theory. That is just normal life. I let you show up. That's respect. I allow you to show up as you show up and I allow myself to show up. It's not this. That's the only theory I'm going to live by. And it's like it's not. I'm sorry. Gravity was a theory. Attachment style is a theory. Letting someone show up authentically as themselves is just fucking respecting you and them and then accepting people as they are. the biggest tell-tale sign. If you're an anxious attacher and you're constantly trying to

change your environment, that's when we have to stop and say, first of all, who the fuck do you think you are asking all of these people to change simply because you don't like it? Second of all, please don't tell me you do the same thing. Because if you're constantly going to change who you are just because somebody you date doesn't like it, then you will, if you don't stand for something, you will literally fall for everything. Then I'd wonder, who are you? How do you know who you are if you're constantly willing to change. Yeah. Again, no ownership, right?

It's no ownership over how you're feeling. This is making me anxious. So someone else has to change it. That's not my problem, right? Like there is zero ownership and that becomes the problem. And you're right, that is not respecting the other person. That is not allowing the other person to be authentically themselves. That is literally, like you said, trying to control your environment, everything around you so that you don't feel sensations that you don't like.

Again, zero ownership of these are my sensations. And it is my job to find a way to be present with them or to release them in a healthy way and to not demand things of other or put people down or blame other people in the process. That is not okay. I have no right to do that. And again, that is not take, that is the opposite over talking about. That right there is what it looks like to not take 100% responsibility. And part of that responsibility could look like, yeah, I'm scared to go back out there and date because I do. I have scarcity mindset.

And I'm worried that I may never find anybody. So I was really hoping that this person would change. And my response always back is I'm like, cool, just because you're thirsty. Does that mean you drink the only poison that's there? Instead, I'm like, that doesn't work for me. That doesn't make any sense. I'm to keep walking because I know I'll either find. If I die on the way, sure, that's my fate, right?

That's how I'm supposed to. To recapitulate all of this, it's like, if you really want to make changes, then we have to remove ourselves. We have to zoom out and be like, cool, who's responsible for making these changes? What is happening? What's under the hood? And what is caught? Like even sometimes Ryan will ask himself, he's like, I want to ask my therapist.

what is causing me to not be able to make those changes. It's okay. There's nothing wrong with anybody that is listening to this. Everyone is a beautiful, amazing, empowered, deserving, loving human on this planet. But I can't be the only one that sees that. Masha can't be the only one that sees that. You have to actually fucking see that for yourself and pony up and take responsibility. Yeah, exactly.

It really is a matter of asking, like, in any situation, to zoom out for a moment and ask, what role am I playing here? What am I contributing here? What is that? What would it look like to take ownership for that? And in the short term, I really do suggest acknowledging what is the role my nervous system is playing? How can I just support my nerve? If I can't do anything else, if I can't make that decision in a relationship or walk away or take that action that I know I technically should, what can I just do to support myself? Because I am recognizing. I am clearly dysregulated. I am clearly struggling. I am clearly not showing up for myself. So what can I do to support myself in the most micro way in this moment. And just to keep asking that for a while, till you get your head above water. And only then, only then, looking outside of yourself being like, well, what's wrong with this relationship? What do I need to do? That, like, long-term decision-making, please, if you take nothing from this, take the fact that you cannot look externally and make these big decision about what to do, how to handle this, boundaries, blah, blah, blah, all these like hot button topics

until you are in a regulated state. And until then, your job, the thing I need you taking ownership for is acknowledging your dysregulating, acknowledging your emotions, and continuously asking, what can I do to support myself and show up for myself? You might need to reach out for extra support externally. You might just need to show up for yourself in really basic ways, like make yourself a meal, step outside, place your hands on your body, take a deep breath, and maybe you'll need to keep doing that for just a few days.

and just focusing on that for days. And maybe that's okay. Dude, I mean, you and I could talk for hours. Masha, thank you again, as always, for coming on and bestowing some wisdom. Plug away. Anything coming up, anything that you want to share with our listeners? What if we have coming up? Actually, I have a free master class that I just finished that I'm super excited about on the topic of relationships.

Perfect. And so I would, yeah, really easy. We'll link it and definitely hop on. like really maps out absolutely everything that I teach beginning to end what that process looks like. I know that's something you and I talk a lot about. It's like it is this really long process and people are kind of asking like, okay, what is it? Yeah. Where do you start? Where do you end? Where do you go? And so we've really mapped that out because everyone's been asking for it. So yeah, I'm super excited to finally get to share that. Sweet. Thanks again for coming on, dude. Super excited.

This was awesome. I love these conversations. Thank you so much for having me.