130: Red Flags & Green Flags: How to Know If They're Serious About You With Francesca Tighinean
00:00Hello, hello, hello.Welcome to another episode of the Sabrina Zohar Show.My name is Sabrina Zohar and I am your host.Happy Friday, Babes.I'm so excited.Today we have Francesca.She is a coach.She studied psychology.
00:12She is phenomenal.And we talk about, are they wasting your time or are they actually into you?We go over body language, some red flags and green flags to look out for.And I'm really amped because this episode is so jam-packed with some really good stuff.Now, babies, don't forget, please rate, review the show.follow on the socials. Give me some love. Don't forget I read all the reviews. So let's speak with some kindness. And don't forget merches out. If you guys, if you guys need anything, you got the courses. We are here to support you in any ways. There's some free guys. Everything's in the link in show notes if you need. If you need, if you need, if you need, if you need, if you need, if you need, if you need, if you need. I are here to support you. I love you, babies. And thank you, as always, for showing up as you and allowing me to show up as mySo without further ado, let's get right on into it, shall we?Hi, Francesca.
01:03Hello, Sabrina.I am so excited.Welcome to the Sabrina Zohar show.I am so fucking excited to have you today because you are such an amazing coach and speaker and voice.And I am so excited to have the audience learn more about you.I was just on your podcast.Now you're on mine.Yeah.
01:20Thank you so much.I'm so excited to be here.Thank you so much for having me.Can we start off?Could you share a little bit about your background, who you are, your work, whatlike to do and how you got into just even being in this space. Yeah. Oh my God. I mean, I've beenpassionate about psychology ever since I was like 13 and my mom went to her first self-development seminarand it was with this, I think it was like a clinical psychologist, but it was a very impactful one.
01:49And she came back like a changed person. I was like, oh my God, I want to go. I want to experiencethis. And then I started going to like self-development courses and seminars and readingbooks and, you know, watching series on body language. And then I went on to study psychologyin university. And it was just like a whole thing. And, you know, my social media channel startedoff by me just wanting to share some of the things I was learning in my courses or from booksor seminars. And yeah, I mean, they grew so fast. And then, you know, I started doing life coachingas well. And it's a whole thing now. The podcast, the coaching, the social media channels.Yeah, it's really exciting.
02:31I love it.And I think today the reason I really wanted you on was because I know that you have different insights, which is always really fun.But I also wanted to understand more, like, I think we see so much on the internet.And I know you see the same side of the internet that I see of like there's a lot of black and white thinking, right?This is how you know someone likes you.This is how you know they don't.And what I find is like there's just not enough nuance to not enough shades of gray.And really I wanted for us to talk today like, are they into you or are they just wasting your?
02:59time. And I'm curious to hear, I can share, I've got plenty of stories, but I'm curious to hearstarting with yours. Have you ever experienced that dating being out there where you really believedthat this person was into you and they were just fucking using you or stringing you along? And like,what did that look like for you? I'm curious your experiences in that department. Yeah, a hundred percent.I mean, especially when I was, you know, in university or right after university and I was like datingand going loads of dates. I had so many experiences where I had no idea what was going.on. I was just like confused, you know? And the guy, and this is something that usually happenswith avoidant people and that I've noticed like a pattern, especially in my dating experience.
03:42When they're in person with you, you know, they'd be super affectionate and present and all in,you know, future faking, which means, you know, they're talking about the future like, oh, our kids aregoing to look so cute. And they do that on the first date. By the way, that's a scientific.run. So in person, they're being really great, right? But then when we would be away, they woulddisappear, you know, like they would stop texting or they would text very inconsistently. They wouldn'tcall. It would be really hard to plan dates. Their answers would be short. You know, they'd only show upwhen they were in the mood or when they wanted to meet. So, yeah, I experienced that a lot. And, you know, a lot ofLove bombing, a lot of, you know, some of the manipulation tactics we hear about.
04:34I definitely experience, like, all of those.How about you?Oh, fuck, yeah.I'm excited for us to work because we're going to unpack all of that.Oh, my God.It's like, as you were talking, I'm just like, it's cascading the stories.You know, you just see the names and the wrist and your life.Slashbacks.
04:49Oh, yeah.I mean, what I used to be, what I used to really overlook was those kinds of behaviors early on, right?Like, I used to think if somebody came out.the gate at 100, great, then that means, look, right? If you don't accept me at my worst,you don't get me at my best. And it's like, nope. Because I think what we see is, like,I used to be into that school of thought that if somebody doesn't start off how you want them tobe, well, then what are you leaving for the rest of it? And what really ended up happening,to your point was I would go for people that would love bomb the shit out of me. They would come on
05:20so strong. I'll never forget when I lived in Venice, this guy. We matched Don Hinge, and he wasmessaging me every single day. He got my phone.number. We were texting. And here is like that glaring red flag I completely overlooked, which was Ijust got out of a relationship. And in my head, I was like, oh, whatever, you know. And the first date already,like, I'll never forget he, like, we met. And then he was like, do you want to go? My friends are inMalibu. Let's go to the beach. And I was like, okay. And within like 10 minutes of being with this guy,like, he picked me up somewhere and then we drove because of the where it was. I was in Venice.And we like go to the grocery store. And already it's very like trying to be coupley, like he's
05:57holding my hand and I'm like, I met this guy 10 minutes ago, literally. Like, this is the first moment.And he's being all over me. He's making cute little innuendos. Then I'm like, we're meeting yourfriends. They all love me. He's talking about stuff that we should all do together. And then we'redriving back. And I remember he dropped, like, he dropped me off. And then I was like, you know,do you want to like hang out a little bit longer? And so we walked back to my house. And we just like,we're making out and hanging out. We took the dog for a walk. And I remember all he was trying to dowas like, get intimate. And I kept saying like, hey, I'm just, I don't want to do that. I don't know you.enough. Like something just felt off. And it's like, sure enough, what happened after that? Like,
06:32he completely changed. And to this day, I'm not like, I don't think that this, he was a bad person.But what I will say is I didn't want to acknowledge that I was uncomfortable on the date,that the way he was acting made me feel, this doesn't feel proportionate. But instead, I was like,Sabrina, come on. He likes you. Just like pay attention. And I think so many of us get caught in that.And not out of malice, right? This isn't intentional. But I am curious, like,what do you in your experience clinically, professionally and personally, see that why do peoplestruggle with seeing the truth in these dating experiences? Because they're so hungry, you know,for validation, for affection, for love. And when someone love bombs you and is going in 100%,
07:17which isn't healthy, by the way, you know, like an emotionally mature people will open up slowly.You know, I like to use this metaphor with the tap of water. Like you don't open it like full.speed, you know, you open it a few drops of vulnerability and intimacy, because they want to see,like emotional intimacy takes time to build, you know, that connection. You know, when someone iscoming off really strong, like 100% talking about, you know, acting like you're a couple and youmet 10 minutes ago like you were saying, they're trying to create that quick emotional bond.And, you know, it's usually because they want to get in your pants, like they're trying tolike sleep with you or, you know, they're, you know, they're.
07:57you know, emotionally unavailable, avoidance.So, you know, everyone needs emotional intimacy,but they will swing between extremes usually.So one day, you know, they're super affectionate,but then the moment they get that intimacy,they will switch in the other extremeand they'll be completely unavailable.100%.
08:20I know for me, I'm curious if you had the same experience,the expectation versus reality was really tough for me to gripe,especially with a lot of these guys.I would over conflate, right? Like, I was guilty of looking at their social media before we even met. And then you see, oh, well, they went on this trip, right? Oh, like I remember one guy I went out with, he dated a celebrity. And so I was like, oh, my God. So if she liked him and this guy was a wet noodle. I was so disinterested in him. Like, he had zero personality. I'm kidding. Like, I'm not kidding. It was like pulling teeth. But I looked at it as well. If she liked you, then why don't I like you? Right. And then so I think like when we focus on what wewish we were seeing versus what we actually are seeing. That to me, and like you said,you're hungry, right? When you're so thirsty, you're just going to drink anything. You drinkthe poison. But I am curious, like, how can we actually start to differentiate between what am Iactually seeing versus what do I really want this to be? Like, what are your favorite modalities,
09:16tools, things to be able to tap back into that authentic self? To see reality, you mean, like to seethis person for who they truly are. Yeah, it's really easy to. It's really easy toproject our needs and what we need in that moment because as you said we're sothirst you're hungry and especially this happens a lot with someone that's emotionally unavailableyou know and um you might have seen this like there is this trend at one point like the dead eyesyou know like when someone is emotionally unavailable many times they will have like dead eyesyou can see it in their eyes like there's no life behind them and it's very easy to projectwhat you want on them, your fantasies, your needs, you know, you're building up this image that's not
10:04real of a person. It's your fantasy, your unicorn has nothing to do with the actual person. So it'sreally important, you know, to step back into reality. Understand why you do it in the first place.You know, for a lot of people, romantic obsession, fantasizing, projecting, you know, going forunavailable people that they can fantasize about, that give them that space to, you know,create that imaginary image is a form of escapism where, you know, they, they have a shitty life,to put it like very bluntly, you know, they're not enjoying their life, they're not fulfilled.So they use romance as a way to escape, you know.It's like reading, I read fantasy, like romance fantasy books.
10:52It's very similar, you know, like you use it as.a form of escapism or you know like you yourself are emotionally unavailable and you know it's easierto imagine and project and to fall in love with this imaginary character than with a real personthat has flaws you know and you know their poop stinks as well so it's it's really important tounderstand why in the first place and become conscious and then step back tointo reality, you know, start seeing them for who they truly are. Like something I like to do is,for instance, make a list, you know, make a list of all the positive traits they have and alsoall the negative traits they have. What do you like about them? What do you not like about them?
11:41So, and try to, you know, step out of this emotional storm that's going on inside of you when you're,you know, attached or really in love with someone. And think from like a very, a very long.logical, critical perspective. Like, okay, what are their flaws and what are their, you know,like good sides? Well, what do you think? What are some of your strategies? Personally, for me,it's funny, because that's why I created, I have a nervous system course. And it was because when I wasdating, my nervous system was dictating the realities, right? Oh, well, that person, you feel allof this. Oh, that's familiar. I personally didn't understand what it meant to regulate and come back tothe present moment. I always thought it was, oh, meditate. And it's like, I'm not
12:24meditating when I'm feeling really anxious. My brain's not going to be able to do that. If there's adanger, my body's like, girl, run. So one thing I like is similar to what you're saying is like to makethem a real person. Right. So I would use to like when I would start to write off, oh, well, they're soamazing. What makes them so amazing? Give me three examples. How did I feel when I was with them?I felt really excited. Okay, what was I excited about who they are, the potential? What was it about? I liketo quantify, right? If I say, well, they're really thoughtful, three examples of what made me think thatthey're thoughtful, right? And it's like maybe they made a statement of how they picked theirsister up from school. And it's like, okay, so I'm going based off their words, not their actions.
13:02And so I think it's really, for me, really important to come back to your body, understand yournervous system, right, and like be present in the moment. And I know that that could feel reallyscary because I used to fantasize and that was my way of self-abandoning. It was my way to yourpoint of being emotionally and available. If I focus on them, I don't have to focus on me.If I could just hyper focus and become very in tune with what they're going through.And it's kind of a joke that Ryan and I have when people will say, my avoidant.And Ryan's like, they're not a tomogachi.Okay, this is not a toy.
13:33This is not a Furby.This is not, I'm aging myself by saying this.This isn't like a doll that you take on and off the shelf.This is a human with a real human experience.And if you know so much about their attachment style, how they act, how they do, tell me what you know about yours.Right?And I wanted to ask you, because we've talked about emotionally and availability.And I wanted to know your thoughts truly.
13:53How does that manifest?Like, what does that actually look like in practicality?Because I saw on threads the other day, someone said, like, hot take, there's no such thingas being emotionally unavailable.This is bullshit psychology terms that are excusing bad behavior.That person is just not into you.I'll tell you what an emotionally available or, like, secure person looks like first.So someone that's like securely attached, you know, emotionally unavailable, they will be very
14:18direct. They'll be very open. They're comfortable with sharing their feelings, expressing their feelings.They'll be like, hey, I like you. Do you want to go on a date? Or, hey, I'm not feeling this.I want to stay friends. Like, they'll be very clear, you know. Like, hey, I want to, you know,see where this goes. They will not hide how they feel. They will not play games. They'll just belike very straight up. So very healthy, chill. Someone that's anxiously attached will usually play games.terrified of rejection so their approach will be more indirect you know so they will be like trying to avoidrejection by hinting in like really subtle ways by dropping cues they're the ones watching all mybody language tricks videos we're going to get to that yeah we'll get into that but you know like
15:11you know the person becomes the center of their world world after a week of meeting them so you knowthat's a whole other thing but then with someonesomeone that's unavailable or, you know, avoidantly attached. First, they will come off asindependent and detached, which can be really attractive, especially for anxiously attachedpeople. Because it's like, oh, you don't need me, you know, like you're so, you have like thatstrong sense of self. But it will be really hard for them to express feelings to, they willstruggle with having like deep, you know, conversations or like, you know,planning for the future. They'll struggle, you know, with like being available for the other person.
15:55They'll be inconsistent. They'll drop like mixed signals. You know, one day, what we were talking aboutbefore, one day they're available and they're loving and affectionate and the other, they're notthere. They disappear. You know, every person has the need for intimacy. So it's not like they'recompletely shut off. Like they will sometimes crave that. But then they'll go back. So,the biggest indicator, I would say, is that they're inconsistent, you know, in their actions and with their feelings. What do you think?100%. To your point, the anxious person also embodies that, right? Because I think we underestimate, I hear this all day of like, well, they're emotionally unavailable. I'm trying to talk to them. I'm trying. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, baby.sending a barrage of text, sending 600 different thought processes, jumping all over the board, you know, going from like, I've seen some of these messages. And I'm like, I don't know what the through line is. And I'm like, I don't know what the through line is.is what is the message you're trying to get across? Because that disconnection from self is where I see emotionally available means I understand myself. I understand this triggered me. Here's what came up for me. Can I articulate that to you? Let me share that with you. Right? Instead of, well, you didn't text me because you don't like me. And it's like so we're making it about them as opposed to saying they didn't text me. Oh, it makes me feel like I'm not a priority. Okay. Is that factually what's going on right now? No, I've met this person once. I have no idea who they are. Right? Like I saw this. This.
17:18me, it was a video the other day of this one creator and someone called into his show and she said,God, I've had one date with this guy and he just, my God, he won't stop texting me. And she's like,what boundary can I set? This is really overwhelming. She's like, it's good morning. How are you?How's your day? What's that? And she's like, I've known him once. And it really annoyed me becausethe guy was like, really. And, you know, he was like, you know, if you liked him, you probably wouldn'tbe saying this. And it was like, excuse me? And everybody in the comments was like, she's justavoid it and blah, blah. And it's like, actually no, she has every right.right to say that's overwhelming. The pinch doesn't match the ouch. Even if I really liked you,
17:54I don't want to start at 100 because to me that felt like she was tapping into her body.She was saying, I don't like this feeling. This doesn't work for me. I'm not enjoying this.It's overwhelming to me. Right. That to me is somebody who's emotionally available to say,hey, I want to express to you. I'm just trying to figure out the words. How do I say this to somebody?And that's why I always thought my partner was so hot because, yeah, he has his avoidant tendencies,just like I have my anxious attendances, but he was incredibly emotionally available to say,hey, nope, this doesn't work for me. Let me articulate. I'm clear about this. Let me show up for youconsistently. And it allowed us to build a real and solid foundation as opposed to starting off really
18:32hot and then being so up and down. Because someone asked, why do some people come on strong and thendisappear? And I think you kind of just nailed it of like, I would love to go into more that futurefaking, love bombing versus genuine interest. Like how can you spot the difference?Between genuine interest and love bombing or future faking. Yeah, I mean, it's what we were saying before as well. Like when they're future faking, for instance, they will, you know, they'll create this image of the future. So they create like that quick emotional bond when that attachment. They're trying to get you attached. You know, yesterday actually I was watching Love is Blind with my boyfriend, made him watch it. And, you know, this guy.was like saying oh you can so this girl basically she didn't have a family or she didn't have a goodrelationship with her mom and her dad died or something like this and then the guy was like oh you can bepart of my family and you know you could see her she's already like falling in love because you knowthis guy and then five minutes later he's flirting with some other girl he's like you know oh i love you
19:38and i love your vibe and i can't wait to put a ring on it you could be my wife you know so likeyou know, it's giving you what you need and telling you what you to hear to create thatemotional attachment really quickly, you know, so the difference is that they're trying to do itreally quickly and they come off really strong, but then they're very inconsistent about it,you know, like we were saying earlier, they're very consistent for three days and then theydisappear for a week and you're trying to plan a date and you can't because they'reYou're so busy, you know, like, yeah.It's funny you bring up love is blind because I'm same thing.
20:19We're watching it.And I'm like, I'm very bored by this season because it's so much trauma dumping.All I'm seeing is like sharing already, it's like the third time, second time they're in theroom and they're talking about their opioid addiction and their family and all this.And it's like it's a false sense of intimacy quickly.And when people overshare because they're trying to connect and they're trying to force and expedite.And I'm not saying it's out of malice.Like I do want to be clear.
20:42It's not that it's not always like, yes, can narcissists love bomb? Yeah, sometimes that's out of manipulation and things like that. But then there are other people that love bomb because they want to seek a quick safety. They want to expedite that so that they can feel good. You're not going to leave me, right? If I share all this with you and you know everything about me, you're going to love me and you're going to support me. But what I kind of see there is like, again, the pinch doesn't match the ouch, right? If somebody like Matthew Hussie at one said it, he was like, if somebody walked by your house and said they like it, do you just give them the keys? No, right? Like you just be like, okay, thank you. You know, II need to make sure that this person has funds in the bank before I go cash the check.And I think that's really where I see the disconnect.And I wanted to go, I want to segue kind of into like, okay, so we understand why we overlook the flags,whether that be an attachment, whether that be a familiar pattern, whether that be I'm scaredto be alone, right?Like I think we cognitively understand that.But I want to kind of talk about, really, I love your content on the body language, the cues,
21:37subtle way, things like that.I think it's so fun to look at beyond just words, right?words and behavior. But can we go into, we'll break it down into how you know they like you versushow you know they don't, right? The green flags into the red flags. But could we talk aboutwhat are some body language, some cues, some psychological things? What are things that you havelearned, experience, whatever, that you could start to identify, right? Like I know for me,I'll be honest, when I used to bite my lip, right? Like I used to look at a guy and start playingwith my lip, it's because I really wanted him to kiss me. But I didn't know how to ask for it. But I would
22:09be curious to hear more things like that that would cue and indicate that this person's at the veryleast, right? It doesn't mean they want a relationship with you, but they're interested.So yeah, that's one of them, for instance. Transferring what you, they would like you to do to themonto an object. So, you know, like they're caressing a glass, the way you did like you to caress them,you know, like those kind of things. I wouldn't know that. Yeah, that's interesting, right? So, for instance,they will become louder when if you're in a group setting, you know, to attract your attention.Or on the contrary, you know, when they're talking to you directly, they might become more shy and flustered because, you know, they're intimidated and they're trying not to fuck it up.For instance, if you're in a group, again, they will want to see your reaction if someone is telling a joke or a story.
22:59You know, you're going to be the first person they look at or even when the group is laughing, you know, they'll look at you.they want to see your reaction.Another one is that their feet are pointing towards you,even if their torso is pointed somewhere elseor if they're talking to someone else.Because, you know, our feet kind of indicatewhere our attention really is, like unconsciously.Because it's the member that furthers the way from our body.
23:27And like, you know, we usually control our facial features or our hands.Like we think about where to put them and how to place them,but not our feet.So that would be like the explanation.Another one is that, you know, they'll change their position when you enter the room.So, you know, if I was just saying like this and then I see you enter the room, I'm like straightening my back.You know, I'm like maybe arranging my hair, playing with my necklace.And it's all a way to, you know, make myself unconsciously, you know, look more attractive for you.
23:59And then some other things, like small things is like if I see you, my eyes widened or, you know,raise my eyebrows a little bit. And then if we're talking, I will like lean forward, you know,because when you're interested in what someone has to say, like you'll lean forward. Now,this doesn't necessarily have to be romantic. You know, it can also be like, you know,at a podcast and I'm really engaged in the conversation or with a friend. But usually when someone'sinterested in what you have to say or you, they will lean forward. Another one is that they will do adrag touch. So a friend will, you know, when they hug you, you'll tap and release. You know,it's very simple. But when someone likes you, their hand will linger a bit longer. So like they'll
24:44drag their hand. And again, they'll find any excuse to touch you or, you know, just being yourproximity. My friend was telling me two days ago, like her ex-boyfriend, she works at a receptionand he works in another departmentand he has no business being at receptionbut he would always end up being at receptionor around that areayou know so you knowthey always end up like in your proximity
25:09close to youfind any excuse to touch youyou know usually men will take upmore space for instanceyou know stretch out and it's likethis this is all like subconsciousand very like reptilian brainis like a way to make themselves
25:25appear more dominant you know moremasculine. Yeah. So it's a lot of like this subtle body language cues that can tell you if someoneis attracted to you or not. I love this shit. I do. I love body language because I'm saying like ifI'm really engaged, I'm directly eye contact, right? Like my show I'm facing towards you. Like I thinkit was I think it was Jillian who posted something saying like, and you know, if you're talking tosomeone and they constantly pull their phone out, it's like, okay, well then they're breaking thatcontact with you, right? And we'll get into the signs that they're not.But I want to preface, right?
25:58For anybody listening, because it reminds me, I have one client and I love her.And this is kind of a similar where she has a guy that does all of this stuff,but then he doesn't do anything with it.Right.Like anytime they see each other in a group, he's always rushing to her first, right?He's making sure that he's always paying attention to her.But then any time it's like, let's hang out, let's make plans.That's it.
26:19Right.He just completely drops the ball.So it gives an excuse of like, oh, I'm not great at dating or like, oh, I'm not good at this.Yeah, a lot of people tell me that.And it's like, that's where we have to go and say, listen, these are all really great subtle cues and you can look into it and you can appreciate it.But if they're not doing anything beyond that.Yeah, I mean, these cues could also be just that someone wants to sleep with you.So it doesn't mean they want to be in a relationship with you, you know?
26:44Like, this could be the behavior of someone that is, or not even that.Maybe they're just platonically interested in you, you know, and they get a bit shy or flustered when they're around, even though they have no intention.I mean, something that shows they're actually interested is things like, you know, consistently texting you every day, remembering small details about you, you know, like trying to help you if you have a challenge. Like these are, you know, and just like being consistent and making things clear. But, you know, about what you were saying with your friend, like sometimes, and this is not always the case, but sometimes maybe the other person is just shy. You know, I was talking the other day to someone and she said her ex,was extremely shy and he would give her like all these subtle cues that he likes her,but he was just too shy to like make a move. So she opened the door for him, you know, like by,I think it was just like texting him or DMing him on Instagram. And then he just started talking,you know, it was just enough to open the door to make it clear, okay, I'm interested as well.And then he was like, oh my God, thank you so much for making them a first move because I was thinking
27:53for months, how can I, you know, talk to you or how can I start a conversation? So that could beit. With her, it's a different story, unfortunately. With her, it's like she's been very clear. They've hadplans he stood up. Okay. They, like, he's, yeah, that's, that's where I'm like, there's, and I totallyknow what you mean. For some people, if they're giving you these clues, but no one's saying anythingand no one's doing anything, sure, they might be shy. They don't know, especially now with like,there are a lot of men I talk to that are like, I don't know how to act around women. I don'twant to be inappropriate. I don't want them to feel like I'm not respecting them.This is very different where she's, people have told him she likes him. She's told him she likes him.
28:29Like there's not been any confusion. He's just not doing anything about it. He just likes theattention. Exactly. And the only thing I will clarify is one thing you had said about the consistencywhen it comes to the texting. I'm all about that when you're in a relationship. My issue comeswhen we demand that after a date, right? Like, why aren't they texting me every day? It's like,that doesn't mean that somebody likes you. Someone cantext you every day and have zero intentions for a relationship.And some people could be like my partner and text you every other day or, you know, call instead,make a plan and show up consistently in different ways.
29:00But I think to your point, what we're looking for is they plan.They follow through.Who they are is who they continue to be.And that is a huge flag, right?They don't just like, they're not just checking in to be like, hey, how are you?Good, good.Okay, thanks.They'll check in and be like, cool, can I see you?
29:17Right.How is your week been going?Oh, you had a really hard day Monday, right?said that you were going to have this surgery and you're like, oh, thanks for remembering that.Like, yeah. You know, I remember when I was doing Shark Tank, this guy went on a date with,we never saw each other again. But like, we had a date like a few days prior. He texts me the dayof Shark Tank and was like, break a leg. He texts me the next day, how did it go? He called methat night and supported me through it. And we never hung out again. But we just realized, like,
29:43it was just enough for us to say, you're a really good person. Like you said, it was an interest aswho we are as individuals and friendship, but it didn't mean we wanted more. But it's those littlethings that when we see, right, they ask meaningful questions. Like they remember things that you sayabout yourself. And it's not just, oh, wow, like, I've had that where I've told a guy sixtimes that like, I have a sister and brother and you're like, do you just not, are you notlistening? Because you keep asking if I have siblings or saying my younger sister and I'm like,I'm the youngest. Like, it's just those little cues. I wanted to play a fun rapid fire of do you thinkthis is red flag or green flag. Ooh, interesting. Okay, ready? I've got four of them. They text you
30:23every day but never make real plans. Red flag. Because, you know, as you were saying before,they don't have to necessarily be big on texting, but they have to be consistent with other things,like, you know, planning to actually see you. That's the most important thing. If they're planning,like, okay, let's see each other in two days. Let's see each other in a week. You know, like even if they'renot big texters, that's still a green flag. But if they're just texting, it means they're justtrying to, I don't know, like kill the time, like get some validation, but they have no realinterest. We all love that dopamine. All right. They say they aren't looking for anything serious,but they act like your boyfriend or girlfriend. Oh my gosh. Huge, huge, huge red flag. It's just that
31:06inconsistency. For me, I'm curious your thoughts. I've never been a fan of action speak louder than wordsbecause I want them to align.I have it where I've dated guys that say,I'm not looking for anything serious.And then we're hanging out every dayand we're doing all this stuff.So you're like, okay, actions, right?They're speaking louder.
31:22No, that person still didn't want a relationship with you.Yeah.Yeah, that's so true.That's so true.They should align.But then you shouldn't,you should definitely not put too much emphasis on the words.That's for sure.
31:33100%.Yeah.100%.All right.It's an interesting one.They're still following their exand liking all their posts.Now, the only way I'm going to say we're going to caveat this.
31:42If you have children together, I'm not going to say that this counts because if you'reliking the photos of the kids.Let's say outside of you shared children and they're liking a photo of that, right?So they're still following their ex and they like all their posts.I mean, generally speaking, it's a red flag.There could be some exceptions where, you know, they became really good friends and it's generallyjust a friendship.And you as your, as, you know, their partner are okay with the friendship.
32:09and all that, you know, like, it depends.I don't want to be, you know, black and white here.You know, they're nuances sometimes.But generally speaking, yeah, it's usually a red flag.It's funny.I was watching this, like, show, that we watch this like house show, the flip-off.It's Christina and Tara, it's like they're this just HDTV couple.And then now they split up.
32:30And she had her ex on.And he was the judge.And the other, the wife of the other guy, she even said, she goes, I knew it.I started seeing her, them liking each other's,content all the time. I knew they were talking again. And I was, I laughed. I chuckled when I heard that and I waslike, you're not wrong. There was a difference between like, I've got guys I've dated that it never went anywhere.We never slept together. Like, we didn't do anything. We went on maybe three or four dates. And to this day,I like posts of them with their girlfriend. Like I'm, I'm encouraging like, you guys look beautiful together, right?
32:58I think there's a difference versus your ex that or your partner that's being evasive about their ex andsaying, no, no, yeah. But then all their bikini photos they like and put a flame on. It's like,That's a different story. I think, like you said, there is a nuance here for a lot of these.Okay. And then the last one, this I think is also a nuanced one. They tell you they want a relationship, but they need to take it slow.Okay. I mean, slow in what way? It really depends. Are you being exclusive while you're taking it slow? What do you mean by slow? Is it two months or is it six months? You know, all these elements. Like, taking it slow is absolutely fine.But as long as you're not like ridiculous, you know, like, I don't know, yeah, we're taking it slow for the past year. We've been taking it slow. And I can also see other people. Well, you know, that's not okay. But it's okay if you, for instance, you want to wait for intimacy for, you know, until you are in a relationship or you want to build, you know, see, see how things are going. That's completely fine. But yeah, it depends. 100%. I'm the same. I think taking it slow, like I took it slow with Ryan. I was just like, I don't want to be your girlfriend after a month. Like I don't know you.versus I've had people right in like I've been dating someone for a year and a half.They say they still want to take it slow and you're like, no, that person's just wasting your
34:15fucking time.Yeah, 100%.All right.So now let's go into how do you spot that someone's wasting your time, right?Like let's talk about those red flags.And I want to preface, a red flag isn't just an ick.A red flag isn't like, oh, well, they asked me to a dive bar and like, I want to be taken outto dinner.
34:32It's like, that's a preference, okay?Red flags are patterns of behavior that would show us that this is.is something to look out for. So what comes to mind for you? Obviously, we know like being inconsistent.What does that look like, right? Like what in what ways? Are we talking breadcrumming, right? Are we talkingbreadcrumming, right? Are we talking about like the hot and cold? Like, what do you see are the glaringred flags that we just oftentimes overlook? Yeah. I mean, first of all, sometimes they're veryobvious. Like, they will tell you, you know, I just want to go with the flow or I don't know what Iwant and we still overlook those things, you know, or all my exes were crazy, you know, like putting all
35:11the responsibility on someone else. So these things are quite obvious, but people still overlook them.Oh, yeah. And then, yeah, like things like breadcrumming, you know, that intermittent reinforcement,when you feel yourself going, being like extremely confused and, you know, when you initially startdating someone, there will be an element of uncertainty, right? But if the uncertainty makes youspiral into anxiety, it's a roller coaster of like highs and lows and, you know, that's not good.That's a sign that this person is like a huge red flag and, you know, is triggering even liketraumas from the past or, you know, it's not going anywhere.Yeah, and I'm a big fan of getting curious of like, are they offering clarity, right? Because, like, I've had it where it's like, you could overthink and be anxious because of your traumas. But this person is like, I'm here. I'm reassuring you. Like, I don't know what else I could possibly do. I don't know you well enough. Versus, like you said, you're questioning everything. You're analyzing their text messages. Like I always saw for me the big red flag was if I have to talk to everybody else about my relationship, but versus the person I'm with. And that's, there's two different reasons for that. There's the one reason of I don't want to be too much. I don't want to be too much. I don't want to be too.
36:31needy and just projecting my insecurities onto them versus I they're going to put me down if theysay that I'm moving too fast like I have one of my clients every time she brings the guy up he saysyou know you're so focused on the destination we're enjoying the journey and it's like you'redeflecting you're pushing it off so that you don't have to take commitment and you keepessentially gaslighting her if like you're being too much you need to just enjoy relax those areall really discrediting dismissive statements that will then be like then you start to goam I crazy shit? Yeah, am I making this up? Am I being too much? Versus, hey, this is how I feel.And the person's going, yeah, I really like you. I, this is what going slow means to me. Does that work for you?
37:09And they're communicative and clear. If you're still then confused and analyzing text, it's like,then that's just your core beliefs looking for someone to abandon and leave you. And that's the differentiation for me of turning it inwards to understand ourselves.Mm-hmm. 100%. And like that ability to just communicate, even if you need space, like just communicate.it, you know, whatever is happening or asking for clarity, you know, like they ask for clarity.They set like clear limits of the relationship or clear timelines.You know, if something's going wrong or something feels off, they communicate.That's a huge green flag.And if they don't do it, that's a red flag.
37:50Also like a sense of, you know, urgency or emotional urgency when you're dating someone that's unavailable or toxic.and you'll find that, as you were saying before,you're over-analyzing, replaying conversations in your head,you know, like you're talking to your friends,like, what do you think he meant by this text?You know, if it's someone healthy,you won't feel the needs to do that.You won't feel the need to ask everybody about your relationship.
38:19It's funny.That urgency point is a such a great point.I remember dating guys where it was like,everything felt like we had to do it now.And it was like, but why can't we meet in a week, right?or if they'd be like, well, we have to go out tonight.And you're like, okay, but I'm busy tonight.And then you start to see them be like, well, okay.
38:33And it's like, that person's not really intentional because it doesn't have to be right thisminute, right now.They're going based on the moment, the feeling.And I hear it all the time of like, oh, I canceled my girls night so I could go on thisdate.And it's like, you don't need to lose yourself to gain them.Because if you lose yourself in order to keep them, well, then what are you gaining?Yeah.
38:52And that's something a lot of anxiously attached people do.They will prioritize.the other person, they'll cancel girls' night, you know, they'll like free up their scheduleon the weekend just in case he might text and want to hang out. Like I've seen that before. So it'sreally important to like keep your life, like keep doing things. Like force yourself to plan things,even if he might text because you yourself will have that sense of urgency like, oh my God,what if I don't go out with him? Maybe he will not ask me out like, like,that's a red flag
39:29if he doesn't excue outafter that or he won't see youfor two more weeksif you don't go out with him the momenthe texts you I mean that's a signyou should run you shouldn't like stickaroundit's something else here now
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39:58We're running out of time and we still don't know the rules.Don't miss what the movie blog calls something you need to watch.Saving those children is how we all go home.From binge all episodes exclusively on Paramount Plus.Oh, I was her.I used to do that.I'd be like, oh, well, I don't know if he's going to ask me.So, like, I won't make any solid plans, but how about I let you know?
40:18And it's like, I was living to be chosen.I wasn't living for my life.Because when you, it's really sexy when someone goes, sorry, can't make it.No, I have plans.And you're like, oh, not too much.obviously you don't want to have that interfere.But I want to know, what are the, so we went over the body language and the cues ofthey're interested.
40:33What about not, right?Like, what are some really telltale signs, right?Like the way that somebody sits or, you know, the way that they are.Like, what are ways that we can start to look at that they physically are not into this?Yeah.Yeah.So if someone isn't interested in you, they will usually like put barriers between you two.So, you know, they'll position themselves in a way.
40:57that there's, I don't know, a chair or a sofa between you two.You know, if they don't have something like that, they'll put like a handbag or, you know, like,I don't know, the water in front.Like, you know, they'll just unconsciously put barriers.Whereas if someone likes you, they will remove any barriers, you know, if there's like a bouquet offlowers, like they'll move that aside.So they have direct access to you.But when someone doesn't like you, yeah, they'll cross their arms.
41:25Just like putting barriers is a big thing.no and then you know like eye contact is a big a big thing when they like you but also when theydon't so they'll like try to like you know not look at you so much they'll try to step back in aconversation if you for instance take a step forward and they step back that's a clear signthey're not comfortable with you too close to each other you know but if they like youthey might take a step forward or if you take a step forward they'll stay in the same positionbecause they're comfortable with being close to each other.Oh, yeah.
42:03I've been on dates with the guys before where I can tell they're checking other people out.I can see that they're constantly like fidgety, right?They're moving around a lot of just very, uh-huh, you know, because you're like,okay, dude, you want to just like sit?Do you want to just be?Do you want to just be? Are we just having a conversation?They're constantly like, I used to see that all the time of like scanning the room, right?And it's like, obviously, we're not talking about if you have autism or you have a reason, right?
42:25Like that, there are two different experiences.experiences, right? Like, if we could just go off that, because I get that all the time of like, well, I'm autistic. I don't make eye contact. It's like, it's a very different experience, right? I think we can tell. Versus someone that you could see they're making eye contact with other people. They're looking around, especially the phone. If someone's phone for me is faced up, unless, listen, the only time I've had that is when they come and say, hey, like, I was on a date once and the guy was like, I technically am done with work at six and it's 5. He was like, so I have to keep my phone here. And I could see, he was a traitor. So I could see the, it's not hard to see that like,He was doing his trades.And then at 6 o'clock, he was like, okay, I'm done.Fine, great.Like, thank you for prefacing.But I always do for me.I always put phone down, right?
43:06Phone face down, aside or in my bag.The only time I opened it is when I go to the bathroom or when they go to the bathroom,unless, again, I said, hey, by the way, I'm prefacing.Like, my mom is staying with me.I need to check my phone just to make sure she's okay.There is a way to communicate.But I've had guys at mid-talking, they're just picking up their phone and go, oh, yeah.And you're like, hi.
43:24That's how rude.I'm in the middle of a fucking, I'm in the middle of a sentence.Yeah, no, I mean, that's just like, you know, rude and impolite as well.100%.And then kind of the last thing I really wanted to go into because like I think we understand that like there's confirmation bias, right?Like that we see what we want to see.I understand that there is sunk cost fallacy, right?Well, I've invested this much time and ever.
43:51I've already tried this long.Let me keep going.So I think we understand why do we ignore the red flags?right? Like even the highlight reel. I have the halo effect of like, well, they're really sweet totheir waiters, which means they must be an amazing person and you start to over conflate.And also just wanted to add something here. You know, our brain, when we fall in love, like loveliterally shuts down the neural pathway that's responsible for like negative emotions like fear orsocial judgment. So your brain makes you not see like their red flags or their faults. And it's just
44:31like, you know, evolution's way of mating us mate. But when you love someone, you can't, you literallycan't see their red flags because of our neurochemistry, you know. Oh, 100%. So what are youdo in that case? How do you break those unhealthy loops when it's a chemical brain, literal, likebiological aspect? Well, it is hard.because, you know, what happens with love, like from a biochemical perspective, it's very similar to addiction, you know, some of the chemical processes that go on. But in a way, like, it's hard. But, you know, just bringing yourself back to the present moment, you know, looking around you, grounding yourself back to reality and connecting, instead of connecting to your emotions, connecting to logic and acting out of logic, and understanding like,I can feel love for this person.It's okay.I can feel attraction and chemistry and I can crave them.
45:29It doesn't mean I need to act on it, you know?Because that's what people think.Like, I crave it, then I need to go for it.It's like, no, you can love someone and still not pursue it.And no, it's not good for you.And change your focus, you know, do something else.Go for someone else.So, you know, it's sometimes you can stop your emotions.
45:49And that's okay, you know.The feelings will be there.but you don't have to follow through with the feelings.Oh, yeah, that's my favorite holding two conflicting thoughts.Like, I can miss you, but that doesn't mean I have to reach out to you.I'm a lie.I could think that you're an amazing person and also, no, I've had that on dates.And I think that's something that I really try to implement or try to teach, really,
46:09is you can have an amazing date.You could spend 15 hours with someone.That doesn't mean that they want a relationship with you.And I could tell somebody, yes, I'm intentional in a relationship and I want this.That doesn't mean I want it with you.And I think that's part of it is we hear,they want a relationship.they're successful in their hands. Great. Okay, then this must be the one. And I think for me,
46:27somewhere like that I start to look at is, one, what are the depths of the conversation that you guys arehaving, right? Like, do you feel one thing that I really look out for that I think is a huge red flag when wetalk about the inconsistency is when I'm with them, oh my God, everything's amazing. It's cloud nine. I am justeuphoric. And then when I'm not, I'm a mess. I'm on the floor crying. I'm hyperventilating. And it's like,what I hear there, to your point, is that addiction. When I'm with them, it's the high. Look,they're choosing me. They're here. And then when they're not insert my core beliefs and all of mystuff and all of my shit and the narrative that I've created myself. And for me, what I think is reallyimportant. There is a couple of things. One, we've got to rebalance. But what I like to look at is
47:09how reciprocal and fair is this aspect, right? I hear this all the time of like, well, I text themevery day and I feel like I'm always the one that has to put the effort. It's like, then pull back.right pull back a little bit all the rains this isn't a game it's not of like okay i'm going to wait sevenhours to text back because they waited seven no what it is is if every single day i'm the first oneto say good morning i'm always asking for plans maybe maybe it's one of two things maybe you're rightthat they're not that into you and it's not reciprocal or maybe you're not giving them the opportunityto also step closer you're not giving them the space to come next to you so imagine you know this istwo people if you're making all the steps don't you're making all the steps don't
47:49them you don't allow them steps to come towards you but if you only walk half the way then canthen you allow them the opportunity to come to you as well so yeah definitely this isn't game playingit's just like you know people end up feeling like they being taken advantage off or they're doingtoo much and it's like yeah because you are doing too much and you need to take a step back and you'redoing too much out of anxiety out of people pleasing you know and like it's not authentic anyways and it'scoming from a healthy place. So you need to step back a little bit and just let them come to you.And this isn't only in romantic relationships. It's also in friendships or any other aspects of life.You know, if you feel like you're doing too much, you're feeling like the other person is taking
48:33advantage of you, then take a step back. Let them come to you as well.100%. I think friendships, a lot of the stuff we talk about does translate. Even family, right?If I'm, I have, like, I have family members that, like, if you don't contact them, you never hear from them.And after a while, I would get super anxious of, oh, are they mad at me?And after a while, you're like, but they're not showing up for me either.So you know what?I'm going to remove myself.And if they don't, then what that just shows me is I don't need to fill in the blanks and the narratives of what that means.
49:02What I could say is, then this just doesn't align with the way that I want to show up in a relationship.Because I want, I kind of wanted to like even end it here with this of like the big difference, what we're trying to explain is like,If you really want to understand, what, is it anxiety or is it my intuition, right?Am I over conflating things?Start to look at what's happening in my body and what is the story I'm telling myself.Am I telling myself that because, well, they text me yesterday, not today.That means they don't like me.Okay, so that's the story I've convinced myself of.
49:31What do I feel it in my body?I can't sit still.I couldn't sleep.I can't eat.Okay, so you're disregulated.Right.So then we have to look and say, so that doesn't sound like it's your intuition.That sounds like it's your anxiety because it comes with a narrative and it comes
49:43with body sensation.versus my intuition is usually pretty, my gut feels this and I'm going to go with it, right?I don't sit here and start to say, well, my gut feels that they didn't text me because they don'tlike me.Okay, well, you know what?I'll get curious, right?I'll just ask them if I talk to them again and if I don't, that's okay.Then maybe they're just telling me that this isn't a match.
50:01And I think there's a lot of power and strength of not playing detective.This isn't about what you need to look out for when you're on date.It's like, no, what this is about is how can you stay in your body and stay in your powerwhile also addressing if this works for you.Mm-hmm. Yeah, 100%.Oh, Francesca, thank you for sitting with us.Is there anything? I wasn't sure if there's anything that we didn't talk about or cover as far as like the everything.If there is anything you wanted to leave the audience with? And if not, that's okay too.
50:30Yeah, I think we covered everything. Yeah, it was an amazing chat. And thank you so much for having me.It's been great. And where can people find you or work with you or what are you up to these days?Yeah, so you can find me at the handle Francesca Psychology anywhere, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube.I have my podcast, which is called the Francesca Psychology podcast.So very simple. Just remember, Francesco Psychology. That's all you need to know.Perfect. And we'll link everything. And I'm so, just thank you so much for being here.And thank you for sharing your wisdom with our audience. And I'm just really grateful that you were part of it.Thank you so much for having me. It was great.
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