The Sabrina Zohar Show - 137: I Used to Be A Hot Mess... And What I Did To Change It

Episode Date: May 2, 2025

What if the reason you’re spiraling after a text, chasing validation, or attaching to people who barely know you… isn’t about them at all? In this vulnerable solo-meets-guest episode, Sabrina opens up about how her anxious attachment shaped over a decade of dating—texting obsessively, abandoning her needs, and mistaking chemistry for connection. For the second part, her mom joins the conversation to share what it was like to witness that spiral from the outside. This isn’t just a story about heartbreak—it’s a masterclass in self-awareness, nervous system regulation, and what it actually takes to break your patterns. Whether you’re stuck in the chase or finally done with your own BS, this one will hit deep. You don’t have to be the anxious girl anymore. MERCH IS NOW AVAILABLE! Stuck After the Podcast? Master Implementation in 8 Weeks with Sabrina's Foundation Course HERE! Do you feel like your emotions run the show and react in ways you can’t control? Join the Nervous System 101: Navigating the Unknowns In Early Dating from Sabrina and Masha Kay HERE! Struggling with a breakup? Join the Make It Make Sense: Getting Through a Breakup course from Sabrina and Britt Frank HERE! Get Ad free HERE! Want to work with Sabrina? HERE! Don't forget to follow Sabrina and The Sabrina Zohar Show on Instagram and Sabrina on TikTok! Video now available on YOUTUBE! Disclaimer: The Sabrina Zohar Show, formally known as Do The Work, is not affiliated with A.Z & associates LLC in any capacity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Don't miss what the movie blog calls something you need to watch. Saving those children is how we all go home. From binge all episodes exclusively on Paramount Plus. Hey, babes. I'm really excited to be here with you guys today because today's going to be a slightly different episode in the structure that we have it. You guys know how I do it. Either it's like full solo or a full guest. And I kind of wanted to hybrid it because today I'm going off the cuff. I don't have any notes. I don't have any place that I need to go. And my mama's here. And she's going to come in and talk about how my anxious attachment really impacted my dating and relationship history. Because I think we hear it ethereally. I share stories. But to have somebody here, like when I'm my best friend Raquel wrote in, it changes the dynamic because I think personally, I normalized my behavior in the sense where, like, I genuinely thought, no, there's just something wrong with me. Like, I'm fucked up. I am the freak of nature. Nobody else is struggling with this. And I think that was where I struggled for a long time, was feeling really lost. I'm like, I think,

you know, we all see the same sides of the internet, the amount of clickbait, the amount of videos. I cannot tell you how many videos I've seen where it's like, text this guy to get this. And I'm like, okay, okay, cool. And I'll text. And then I'm like, I got a dick pick. but I didn't get anything of depth because at the end of the day, it was never about do this to get this. It was never about self-abandoned, go external, have someone else validate you. It has always been, come back home to yourself, learn how to validate yourself, learn how to love yourself authentically and not fucking bullshit, and learn how to show up as yourself. And I think when I think back on my dating history, oh Lord, when I was in my teen years, like I was the late bloomer. I, was the person that like I didn't kiss a boy. And I think I kissed a boy at like 13 and I felt like it was awful. It was like something feels wrong. Like, I just, eh. And then in high school, I kissed a boy.

But, like, I didn't do anything else. I didn't let a boy touch me anywhere else because I also came from a household of my father being so open sexually, right? Like, he had his colorful past. He had porn feeders in New York in the 80s. He had a gay club for 25 years in New York. Like, we grew up very, like, love is love. Who gives a shit?

And then my mother, very prude, very, like, conservative. Don't let a boy touch you. And they were going to think you're a slut and all of this. And it was really polarizing. And so I grew up not really knowing which way was which, right? I didn't know who to be. I didn't know how to act. But I was always dubbed as boy crazy. And it was always the running joke of like, oh, Sabrina's just obsessed with another guy. And it was like, well, yeah, that was a cry for fucking help. That was a cry for help. Because at 15, when I'm obsessed with Brandon Boyd from Incubis and I have full size poster, wall size poster of him, everything on my, the planet was Brandon Boyd. That was a cry for help. I was so uncomfortable in my own reality. I had to disconnect. I had to completely disassociate so that something else could bring me joy because the life I was living was so fucking painful and so tough to deal with. And I mean, I remember when I moved to New York, I was in love with this guy from Florida and he was the man I lost my virginity too. And I completely

over conflated that situation. That's where it all started. I will never forget, like, he lived in Orlando and I lived in Gainesville at the time. And I drove to see. him. We met, I mean, talk about serendipitous. We met at a nightclub when I was 18. And I, right before I had left, I'd, like, manifested him. Even my friend was like, holy shit. And it was like his height, his everything, everything about him was like, to the tea. And when he walked up and even to, even to his name, like, even his name, I had been like, those are my favorite names for guys. Like, it's the one name I want. So when he walked up, I was like, oh my God, this is it. And like, that's, I think where that delusion started to happen of like, this could be it. And this is my soulmate and all of these

things. And I remember like when I did lose my virginity, I told my sister and she said, I got really sad reading that because I just, that's not how I expected it to happen. And I was so bummed because I'm like, I just wanted someone to love me. Why are you upset now that somebody who was showing me love? And it's like, she was right. It wasn't, it wasn't how I envisioned it to happen on my friend's couch at 18 when I was drunk as fuck after a party. Right. That's not what I thought was going to be, but it was. Right. And that's what that was. And I remember when I left, I was with him for like a couple of days. And when I left, I was hyperventilating in the car. I was losing it. I got home. And I was just a fucking mess. And that was the beginning of the next 14 years of dating for me. Where every single time,

like, I remember dating this guy in college and taking four naps in the day and because every time checking my phone was too painful, because I would text him. And then if I didn't hear back, I couldn't sit still. I was just in full panic. I was talking to a million guys on the internet. I was just, just like I needed to fill my space with something besides my emotions because if I actually sat with what was coming up for me, that was really fucking scary. And so when I moved to New York and started dating and kind of going through those experiences, I replicated all of those behaviors that I had learned, right? Like my father was consistently dismissive of me. He would constantly put me down. He would, you know, he thinks he's helping when he belittles you and he thinks like tough love, right? And it's like,

no, that didn't work for me. Tough love doesn't work for everybody. And when I moved to New York and I was really trying to find myself, like I remember there was a brief blip on the screen when I was 19, fresh-eyed, bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, where I remember just going on walks and feeling like I was on top of the world because I had something new. And I dreamed of moving to New York. That was my fucking dream. And I did it. And I had achieved it and I was there for 12 years. And I remember this guy that was obsessed with, he text me when I moved to New York saying, I'm going to fight for you. I'm going to fight for you. I'm going to. coming to get you. And I remember just thinking in my head, like, something feels unauthentic. And I didn't trust my gut. And I was dating this other guy who ended up becoming my boyfriend after, but like just a couple of dates. It was nothing. And something new. And me and this guy went out. And I remember he was all about, I'm going to win you. I'm going to win you. And we went back to my house. And we started to hook up. And I started crying hysterically. And I told him, I can't do this. And he slept on the couch and he left. And I never spoke to him again to this day. because I think in that moment I realized like it's not that I just want a person. I need somebody that's the right person. And so my dating history and my anxiety manifested in so many different ways. I would text so much it was actually concerning. I've shared the story of when I texted guy 173 times because he tried to end it after a few dates. And I would wildly misread situationships. Like if I met a guy that was flirting with me and like at this time in my early 20s was when I was starting to feel myself, right? Like I was becoming a lot more prettier. I was growing into my body. I was learning. I was learning.

had to take care of myself. I had lost a bunch of the baby fat. Like, I was looking like a snack. And I ended up making money. I could dress myself better. I worked at a salon. So my hair always looked great. And I remember dating, like, going out with this guy and we like met at a party. He was like roommates with my friend. And we met at a party. And then he, what I would do is I would over conflate someone's interest. And so because he said, let's hang out or like, not even. I don't think he did. I was the one that was like, I'm going to make the move and I'm going to show him like what a cool girl I am and then I'm really hot. And I finally like got us to hang out one. And night and like we went to like the pool right like the Williamsburg hotel I think at the time and he

didn't touch me he wasn't showing me any interest and I was on this dopamine loop of like I have to get him to like me I have to get him to want me I have to do this and we went back to his house and we hooked up and I remember leaving and I was like this is going to be everything this is going to be it oh my god like he's a model he's successful and look at this fucking house he lives in and I filled in all the blanks and sure enough he didn't call me after and I would text him like hey do you want to hang out and he would always just be so fucking busy. And then I remember talking to my friend, like a few weeks later, and me, like, it was her roommate. And she then told me that she had slept with him.

And I was like, oh, I didn't know that. And she's like, yeah, I don't really tell anybody. And she's like, you know, he's a playboy, right? Like, he's never going to be one woman's man because, like, that's who this guy is. And she kind of looked at me and she was like, oh, you thought something different? And that was a pattern where I would go out with these guys that were stupid attractive and, like, on paper, everything I could have imagined. And instead of being in my body and saying, like, hey, does this work for me? Like, I didn't know what the word no meant.

When I was 22, I dated this guy. And he, at the middle of the night, he was a DJ and he texts me at 2 a.m. come over. And I did. I left my mother who was staying at my house. I said, oh, my friend is outside. I have to go grab something from them. She was so tired. She didn't know what I was saying.

And I walked my ass 10 blocks in Manhattan at 2 in the morning to go hook up with this guy and walk myself home. And I remember being so sad when I got home because that's not what I wanted. I didn't want to show up like that. But I thought, you can't say no, because if you say no, what's going to happen? And it got to the point where I didn't even trust myself. I would send screenshots to my sister and she would send me text to send to him because I was so, I didn't understand how to show up. And I was so anxious and I was so, there was so much trauma and there was so much just shit

that I was carrying with me that I couldn't really tell the difference between genuine interest and somebody who just wanted to use me or have a good time. And that went on for years. I went on to like to the point where in New York, I dated like three people in a day. I would go out on as many dates as I could because then it helped me distract from the fact that I was sitting still. It helped me distract myself from the fact that I wasn't speaking up. I wasn't using my voice. I wasn't stating my needs.

I was just playing the cool girl. And then cue in hypervigilance. I started noticing, well, why didn't they text me yet? But they said that they text me every morning. But why didn't he put a smiley face? But I don't understand. But like he didn't show up. But why didn't he say this?

And he normally says this. And then he said this. Because I was so. with the idea of these people, right? Like, I remember I was when I worked at this company called Dulce Vita, they had these massive parties. And there was this guy that I was seeing. And like, he did not treat me well. Like when we were together, we had the time of our life. I was on cloud nine. And like, he was an Aussie guy. And he had this cute accent and, you know, all the things. And he was, what I really loved about him was the idea of him. He was super successful. He had an apartment in Soho. He was well dressed. But like, I'm going to just say it. He had a tiny dick and my needs weren't mad. I was so unsatisfied with him. And I didn't want to admit that because if I admitted that, then I had to admit that this just isn't for me. But instead it was, no, I'm going to get him to choose me. I'm going to get the guy that it gets the playboy, the guy that gets all the girls, the guy that's always. And like, I remember seeing him go on other dates. I'll never forget walking across the street and seeing him get in a cab with a massive bouquet of flowers and being like, hey, you told me at a work meeting tonight. And his response was, I don't owe you shit. And I still hooked up with him. I still hung out with him because my self-fing. esteem was so low. It was so in the ground that I thought that's what I believe. That's what I deserved, right? Love has to be earned. You're not just going to get it. Like somebody has to, you have to jump through hoops. And so I consistently dated men that were like my father and my anxious attachment.

It didn't allow me to connect. I was attaching to people. It was, please validate me, please choose me, please tell me that I'm the girl for you. Please pick me. And so when they didn't, it reaffirmed that even more. And how did I manage? I used my body to connect. Let me hook up with you. Let me be with you. Let me show this part of me. And then you're going to fall in love with me. Because right, once you get to know me, then you're going to realize how amazing I am and how I'm the girl for you and all of these things. And sure enough, that didn't happen. Because what happened was I would just abandon my wants needs and desires. One day, you're negotiating with suppliers. The next, you're installing a shelf in the back room. Running a business means moving in many

directions all the time. TD's new small business banking accounts are built for how your business moves. It's how we're making banking more human. I did that for 10 years in New York. I mean, I've read you guys the story of some of these fucking dudes that I dated that blatantly wasted my time. And I never really allowed anybody to show up for me. I was just manic and it was just constantly scanning like the texting. Why do you think I speak so much about the texting and dating? I was her. I was the girl that have a panic attack of a guy didn't text me. I was the girl that my mood would shift when I did get a text or didn't. I was the girl that was like hyperventilating. I was the girl that would wake up in the middle of the night to see if I had. a text. I would go to bed late just to see if I would get one. I'd wake up and if I got the text in the morning, okay, I'm okay. And if I didn't end all, right? That was it. Fucking Defcon one. And I would even put myself into situations where I'd go walking around the specific park in Brooklyn because I knew that this one guy was always there with his dog. And I wanted him to see me looking good until I saw him with his girlfriend that he neglected to tell me about. And I still wanted him to choose me

because the seeking validation, the external, somebody telling me I'm good enough and I matter was so much more important than me saying that to myself. And it wasn't until my ex when I married my father. I was with a man that was the exact same version of him, just in a slightly different accent. And it was the same reminiscent feelings. And I was so disconnected. And that's the thing like, sure, he was a narcissist. I was a hot mess. I'm not ever going to blame one person for everything because that's not how it works. but my trauma and my shit was what kept me in it. And I'll never forget the day we broke up, my mom looked at him and she, because he said, your daughter needs therapy, and she pointed him right in the eye, and she said, you better fucking be careful the day you say that. And he said, why?

And she said, because she's going to see who you really are. And she's going to realize who you are. And she's going to get stronger from this. And you're not. And that's what happened. That was the day when he left me, I tried to sit in front of a bus, hoping that it was going to hit me. I didn't want to go on.

I get emotional thinking about. this girl because I love her so much. Every part of me belongs. Every part has created who I am. And the more we try to say, God, I want to get rid of this. How do we fix this? How do I shut this up? Guess what's going to keep coming, that part of you? And I think back on her and I found one of my journals. And she said, I just can't be without him. I'm nothing. Everything is my fault. And when he left, I really believed that. I lost 27 pounds. If you can see, frame I'm on now. I lost that much weight. I was dysregulated morning and a night. I couldn't eat. I couldn't sleep. I couldn't function. I was always by my phone. I was constantly reminisce. I was

looking at photos. I was opening the wound over and over and over again. And my mom was there by my side and she allowed it. And not in like a negative way. She allowed me to feel. And that was the first time ever that somebody just let me be and didn't try to fix it and didn't try to come in and just supported me throughout the entirety of the breakup. And that's when I started therapy. And I remember calling my therapist twice a week. Every week I was losing it. I didn't know what to do. And then I started dating somebody a few months later and fell right back into the same thing where we text morning, noon, tonight, we'd all these future plans. And then sure enough, we hooked up and we hung out and then they changed. And it was like, it was clockwork. And that's when I realized this isn't working. I can't

keep doing this. And it took me seven years to be the woman that's sitting in front of you from that. It took me seven years to turn into this version. And the reason I wanted to have this episode today was to share the anxious attachment isn't an excuse for bullshit. And I am so fucking tired of this narrative of like, well, at least the anxious person works on themselves. No, they don't. No, they don't. The anxious person actually doesn't usually work on themselves until something pushes them to realize I can't keep doing this. I was her.

I was the anxious girl that was fuck avoidance. They're the worst. If they like you, you know, if not you'll be confused. If they wanted to, they would. The box theory, they know what they're inside. All of that. And guess where it got me? Alone.

Sad, depressed. Constant seeking external. Never got me anywhere because I was so disconnected from myself. I was. I was avoiding. That's the thing. Anxious folks are also avoidant because we avoid looking at what's under the hood. We think it just, well, no, I need somebody that's going to show up.

They have to do this. And why aren't they doing that? One major fucking sign for anxious attaches is we will try to change the external because we're not comfortable. And that's not how life works. It's the same when people come to my show. You need to talk slower. I don't like that. You need to change who you are.

I don't want you to curse. And it's like, fuck off. That's my messaging. Stop telling other people how to be and start accepting that you have a fucking choice. And it's not about I just need that guy to stop doing this and then I'll be happy. You have a choice. Maybe we can stop and acknowledge this ain't for me. this person's not right for me. And instead of shaming and blaming and belittling ourselves,

we can come back to fucking compassion and love. I'm a human and I'm going through it. That was one thing I didn't have. I would belittle myself and berate myself and talk so much shit about myself because I in my core believed I'm the problem. And if I'm the problem, well, then I have to be control of everything because I'm the issue. Instead of saying, I have my shit, but other people have free will. And if they can treat me like that, I get to decide if that works for me. And my anxiety, I pushed friends away. I pushed so many dudes away.

I was the queen of texting and being like, hey, you want to hang out? Within 10, 15 minutes, I'm hyperventile. I'm sweating. And I'd be like, hey, guess not. And I got guys that would write back and be like, I was actually stoked to see you again, but not after this. I don't feel comfortable. And it's like, they're right.

They're right. Why would you want to see me again? That I'm so anxious I can't fucking sit still. I wasn't communicating with them. I was constantly talking. I was berating them with fucking 30 text messages, one after another, after another, after another. I remember this guy I dated. He broke it off with me and he moved. Just like six months of dating. We were kicking it for a while. I self-abandoned a fuck ton. And when he broke up with me, I would still send him gifts. I was texting him all the time. Like, I can't stop thinking about you. And he was just finally like, dude, I need you to stop. I've moved on. I've met somebody else. And that was a gutter old punch because it was what did she have that I didn't? You chose her over me? right? And that right there, that was how my anxiety was ruining my life. Because I was creating these narratives and I was filling in the blanks with my assumptions and my low self-esteem. I wasn't actually seeing it for what it was, because if I was, then it would have acted completely differently around it. And now I then got to say, but I get to make a choice. And when I started doing the work,

what I really had to come to terms with was, I'm going to lose people. Right. And that's the anxious attach to his biggest fear. Don't abandon me, don't leave me. Please don't reject me for who I am. Right. Don't leave me. But that's part of this. Because when I started to say no, when I started to learn boundaries, when I started to date differently, that also meant that I had to show up differently. And that also meant that I was going to lose people that were invested in the unhealed version of me. That's part of it, right? An anxious attachment? I'm just kind of really tired of people using that as a crutch.

Sure. Okay. So you have anxiety. You have anxious attachment. Okay. What else? You have five million other fucking amazing qualities about yourself. And it doesn't mean just because I have anxious attachment.

It's like, no, we have unheeled shit. We got some stuff that we need to work through. That is what I can control. but not just I'm done with avoidance and I'm going to watch the clickbait on the internet and I'm going to suddenly diagnose and people are fucking talking about avoidance like they're the goddamn Tamagachi. My avoidant, my dismissive avoidant, wait a minute, you know so much about them, their behavior, their attachment style, what they're doing? You know so much about this from this person you barely dated. What about you show up with? How about how you're showing up?

How about your attachment and what that means about you? How about we look and say, is this a pattern? Is this a pattern? Have I dated plenty of people like this? Sure have. Okay, so then there's something here about that. We have to stop looking external. That's what changed the game for me. When I started to say no, and I started to stand up for myself, that doesn't work for me. No, I'm not meeting you out at 10 o'clock at night. I'll fucking go out that late. I'll meet you out at 7. And if that doesn't work, then maybe we're just not aligned. I was okay losing people. And that didn't mean that my life was suddenly amazing. I would call my mama all the time crying, hyperventilating, and that's why we're going to bring her into this. So that she can attest to the fucking version I was, And the reason I'm doing this, only because one reason, I want to show you who I was because you guys have seen who I am now. And I don't think it's fair for you to sit and think, I'm never going to become like this. I don't know how to do that. It's like, yeah, you can. And I hope that this is an inspiration to know that the hot mess I used to be, the girl that was smoking a pack a day, running around New York, fucking staying out until 11 in the morning. And then, or like, I would go get wasted. I didn't even like to drink, but I was just numbing. And then I would go to bed at four or five. 5 a.m. and then wake up at 7 to go to work and I would be sweating alcohol. You could smell it off of me in the same fucking clothes I was wearing the night before. And me and my friend would just swap. And we would

just lie and be like, oh, yeah, she slept over. Or like, we slept at our friend's house and we forgot our bag because we were so embarrassed. And I was just doing things because I wanted people to like me. I wanted someone to choose me. So I'd drink. I would do stuff. I'd go out to places I didn't want to go to. I never stopped to be like, hey, do you want a relationship? Or like, are we taking this? I can't tell you how many fucking times. I spent weekends with people. Guys I met that were phenomenal, like these gorgeous fucking accomplished guys. We would have sex all weekend. We had like a fuck fest and we were going out, we're hitting the town and we're doing brunch with their week, their friends, and we're doing the whole thing. And then I never saw them again. Because they would say, oh, I'm sorry, I'm just, I'm not interested in a relationship. Or, you know, this is moving a little fast. I don't know that I'm ready for that. And it gutted me and it devastated me. And I would constantly blame them. I just haven't met the right person. Well, I can't. They had nothing. to do with that. I didn't become the right person. Because when I did, then I allowed my partner into my life. That's it. My dating changed when I met Ryan, or I'm sorry, the year before I met Ryan.

My dating completely changed because I finally stood up to my dad. I finally stood up to the big, bad wolf that I had been scared of running away from all of my life. And I finally looked him in the eyes and said, fuck you. I'm not doing this anymore. You don't get to talk to me like this. How do you think I started to date? I started to say no a lot more. I started to say, listen, I've always been scared of my father abandoning me. Who are you? So you leave? Great. But I really had to learn that. Because what did I learn? The contrary, you're the problem. That's why I always think, what did I do wrong? Because as a kid, there was ambiguity. As a child, you had to fill in the blanks. My parents are mad at me and hit me. So that means I must have done something because we don't have the mental capacity to be like, oh, my parents are fucked up. Oh, my parents are narcissistic or emotionally unavailable or disassociate or are people pleasers. How could I? And then I learned from my siblings. You're too much because my dad couldn't handle me. And so for them to fit in and be accepted by him, I have. had to be shunned. She's the fucking problem. So I learned scream louder. Try to do anything you can for someone to see you and hear you. And that didn't work in dating. It was maladaptive coping mechanisms.

Kept me safe in childhood. And the work really started when I started to say, that's okay, you've been through a lot. I'm not going to put myself down, right? Like, okay, so you message the guy or the girl or the they and you didn't want to. And now you're like, I feel so shitty. It's like, top, get rid of it. You're lying to yourself. You are lying to yourself when you say, I can't do it. I'm not enough. There's something wrong with me. You're fucking lying to yourself. And I know it because I did that for years until my therapist called me out on it. And said, stop lying. You are capable. You are worthy. You are deserving. Now fucking show up as that. That's your challenge. So let's bring my mama into here. That way, we can end this episode where you guys get to genuinely see who I really was. How did I really show up?

And how did my anxiety manifest for other people? Because we love to think, Nobody knows I'm anxious. Nobody knows I have anxious attachment. Yes, they do. Yes, they do. The ride that steals the spotlight every time it hits the road, that's the Volkswagen TIG-1. Its sleek exterior makes a first impression you can't ignore. Step inside to find available full leather seats and wood accents. Under the hood, the available 201 turbocharged horsepower engine gives it a fun to drive edge. The refined Tiguan, you deserve more style. Visit vw.com.ca to learn more. SUVW, German Engineered for All. Hey, Mom. Hey, sweetie.

I'm really excited to have you as our hybrid episode, because today I did something that I don't normally do. I'm splitting the episode up and making it one, and I actually am really excited about this. But the reason I had you on, not like I don't want you on, but I really wanted to have you on because I think for so long I've shared so much about myself to the internet and to the world. but I don't think people really saw how my anxiety impacted other people. I don't think people really see, like, we see the bubble, right? Of like, oh, well, this is my experience, but I don't think we really realize, like, how it manifested. And I'm curious, like, you've known me all my life. How, when I was dating, like, especially in my heyday in New York, when I was so fucking anxious,

like, what did you notice about me? It's a very good question. I never really saw it at first as an anxiety. For me, I thought it was something new for you. you were endeavoring into it. But slowly, I started to realize that as you would get ready and be excited and, you know, have the fun of getting yourself altogether, I saw it was more, for me anyway, when she walks out that door, is she going to come back as excited and happy as she left? And I worried about that because, you know, you see, your daughter is so happy and everything.

And when you came back, Sabrina, it was not the same girl. It was not the same individual that left. You looked defeated. You looked sad. You looked as if you basically did not bring home the prize. And for you, the prize was to get someone to have a wonderful relationship with you and have a great time and be reciprocating that. So I think for me, when I would see you coming back home, I knew exactly how the date went. Well, and I mean, I didn't have, I'm not a very good poker face. I've been told that. But I also want to say, like, what did you notice with the way that I was texting? Well, the texting for me, as an older person, I never realized how important texting was. I never realized what a tool that was in the dating realm. And when I realized that, yeah, you were, it was your oxygen. If that click didn't come on, you didn't breathe. And it was very difficult to watch because I, I

I didn't understand it. But to you, it was if they text me, that means they're interested. That means they felt the same way I did. That means that I'm good, that I please someone and that I achieved what I wanted to do. And I started to see that that was a very, very, very deep pattern. And unfortunately, that was not most of the time the result you wanted. So it was a never-ending sad situation from the moment you walked into that. door after the date until you were on to the next date. And it was a pattern of behavior. I walk out,

I get dressed, I look fantastic, I'm going to get it, I'm going to conquer, I'm going to be happy, I'll be back, it was a great date, all of that. You know, my mind is going at the same rate that your probably mind was going. But that didn't happen. So you came home, sad. And it became something, unfortunately, that I got very sadly used to. It felt very powerless because as a parent, what am I supposed to do. I want to respect the fact that you're a young adult and you're doing your own thing, but at the same, you know, you want to bring notice to the fact that what's happening in that interim, that you leave from when you said, bye, mom, I will be back and I'm going to have a great time to the time you come back. And such a sad, sad young woman. And that was something that I

didn't know how to handle, truth be told. No, rightfully so. Because all the advice and the talk, you would hear me. But I think it was in a vacuum. It's like, yes, yes, yes. This time, the next time I'm going to go out, I'll be fine. I'll be fine, because I'm not going to do what I did last time. But what exactly did you do last time, right? You don't know what you did last time. So there you go. Oh, I'll wear a different outfit. Or I'll have a different attitude. Or I'll wear a different hairstyle. I'll get this one. Because I didn't get that one because I didn't know exactly what I should be doing, but now I know. And I could see the reels going in your head, you know. I could see that. Again, it was very new. And it was a pattern of behavior, walking out wonderfully happy and

excited and coming back, very, very disappointed and sad. And I wish it would end there. Where did it go? It just kept repeating itself, but it just didn't repeat itself. It escalated. What did you notice? Well, I noticed that the joy of preparing for the date had diminished, the excitement that one should have as a young person, you know, of looking at. I've looked at. forward to meeting somebody had completely diminished. It became more of a chore. It became more of a mission. I got to go out. I got to get. I've got to get this person. I got to come back. I got to give my mother a good response to what it was. And I think you felt sad that you had to come home, you know, and say to me, why is this happening? And as a parent, I say, well, Sabrina,

you can't. What's my famous motto? You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time. I'm curious, too, what did you think of the people I was dating? That is a question, I think. Like, Lord knows I heard Raquel's response where she's like, those pieces of shit, right, her New Yorker. But what was your, because you've met so many of them. You've seen them. You've seen the messages. You've seen the interactions. On the aggregate. What did you think about them? Same person, different name. Talk about the topic. And I mean, same person. I mean, the demographics were the same. I mean, you could, you know, the chalk line of a dead body. It was. was the same one every single time. I mean, okay, and I kind of lost track with the names. I mean, which one was that one, Sabrina? Which one was that one? Because they were all, excuse me, assholes, idiots, et cetera, et cetera. So, you know, you had given them a position in your timetable of dating. So that was the issue. The issue is that you never went out of that demographics.

You never said, you know what, I'm going to try something different. I'm going to try, you know, seeing if I can relate differently or maybe somebody else can really appreciate the person I am, not because I'm not to be appreciated, but not everybody's going to like everybody. And you've got to find that niche where you feel comfortable. And I think that was the problem. You didn't feel comfortable. I didn't think you were feeling that you could be who you are. No, I just wanted the conventionally handsome guy. You know who exactly who I'm referring to. I wanted the, they're attractive, they check all the boxes.

and if they choose me, what does that say about me? That was my number one thing. Like, the cool kid, remember you know who his name is. I'm not going to say it on here. But in Venice, the YouTuber that I was obsessed with for a minute. And it's like, yeah, he was a nice guy. Don't get me wrong. But like, I'm not going to shit on him.

But like, it wasn't nice. It was the fact of fact that he's cool. He's good looking. He people like him. So if he likes me, there it is. I'm validated. I am worthy. I'm deserving of it.

And it's like, and instead it just reaffirmed my core beliefs that there was something wrong with me. And nobody's ever going to like me. and I'm too much. And it's like, well, that's, I think, because that's what I genuinely believed about myself. I think you went out with people that were unattainable in a weird way.

The reason I say that is because you have to understand that the type of men that you were going out with are very self-absorbed and very into themselves. And I remember always my mother saying to say, to me, they'll never be yours. They'll never be yours. It's them, their ego, and then there's you. And I'm not saying, well, don't get me wrong.

I'm down generalizing. I'm going according to your experiences, of course. And I think that you kind of set yourself up for failure in that respect and the sense that I think you were still too young and you wanted to jump that very important path in your life, that evolution of being who you are first before you want to be with someone else. And I think that's what happens with young people. You know, you go into your 20s and you romanticize what it's like to go out. with a handsome, wonderful guy. But you have to remember, does the handsome, wonderful guy want what you have to offer? Does that mean that what you have to offer is wrong?

But it's not what he wants. Then you're going to say to me, but, you know, I found out he got married not too long ago. Yes, because it was the time he was ready. That person was there. It happened. And it worked for them. But it doesn't take away from the fact that anything was wrong with you. What that was for you was it was your evolution.

It was your time to experience, to learn more about yourself. And I've always said to you, it's not so much a matter of what you want that you need to learn. More importantly, is what you don't want that you need to learn. And that has a more important impact, I think, on your dating life. And I think that that's what had happened when you kind of moved forward and went with the gentleman that you're with right now. because he was completely out of any so-called comfort zone that you said. And I think in a way you sort of thought, well, he's not the conventional good-looking guy. So why should I even bother?

Because that's all I want. Okay, there's nothing wrong with that. But is that all you want made you happy? No. Did it work for you? No. So at what point do you have to say maybe what I want is not in the direction of where I need to go? and perhaps what I need is vitally more important.

I mean, shout out to Hellie. You're the reason I didn't break up with Ryan. They know his name. You're the reason I didn't because I was in my own way. I remember because I was dating two people. We all know. And you met both of them. And what did you say to me?

This first one, he didn't make eye contact with me, Sabrina. This ain't it. And when you met Ryan, you were like, you're stupid if you end this. And you're like, I'm not going to tell you what to do, but you're like, I really believe that this could be somebody good for you. And I do agree with you. I think one of the things that I've noticed with that,

that you brought that up is I don't. I don't like when I meet someone for the first time I get this very, very fake kind of sweetness and kindness and, you know, oh, you know, in being just the ultimate that they are. I like a real person. I like for someone to look at me in the eyes. I like for someone to be just natural and real. Now, I'm not saying that Ryan was rude or anything, but I could see he was nervous. I could see he was excited. I could see that he was just being himself. And I found that, to be so charming because, you know what, that's what it's supposed to be like when you meet someone in dating. You're supposed to have that very quirky thing and being sweet and just being fun.

If you take it too seriously, well, how would you not be able to move forward if you take it too seriously because you don't know the person? So when you said to me, but he's not, da-da, you know, I don't know, well, nothing else has worked before. What have you got to lose? I mean, that's the understatement of the fucking year. saying that everybody who's going to do that is going to succeed, but you learn more about yourself. You learn about, you know what, I felt good when I was with that person. I felt heard. I felt fulfilled. I felt that he really want to be there with me. Maybe that's something I should really, you know, continue with. And that's what you learn. You learn that all the things you didn't

think would be, you know, interesting for you. All of a sudden you say, wow, why didn't I try this. It just, that's why I say when you've been with people that haven't worked for you, that's very important to know. You've got to go in the direction to see what does work for you. So, and I'm really happy that you did stay. And I was very proud of you because that was difficult. It was difficult for me to get out of my own way because then that meant I had to get rid of every belief that I thought I was going to have. Like, I mean, the person that I was with that I literally married, he was who I thought was going to be like, that's it. This is. Sign sealed delivered. Let's go get babies made. Like, let's do it. Let's go. And when that didn't work,

and I realized, like, oh, I just, I was with my dad, right? That's the same way. He wasn't exactly like him. But the way I felt with him, the way he dismissed how I felt, the way he would fucking triangulate and try to distance me from everybody else. The way that he was very manipulative and very cold and took no accountability and was incredibly fucking just grandiose about himself. He thought he was God's gift for walking this earth. And I saw it as, I'm not. I'm not. I saw it as, I'm lucky to be with you instead of realizing like who's the lucky one here like we both are we're both very lucky but I always saw it as a pedestal above me because that's how I saw myself and so when I met Ryan and it was finally a oh we're even we're equals right like we both like each other maybe he liked

me a little bit more at the beginning and it was allowed to flow because like you said what worked what I had been doing wasn't working so I may as well try something different because if it didn't work out cool it's a lesson and it's a something experience but if it did work out well here we are Well, it's a very simple comment, right? It's a very simple statement. It's a very simple thought process, but that's what makes it so difficult. Until you understand that is the hardest thing to do. And if we may go back to the gentleman that you were referring to, I remember when we sat down together and you said to me, I don't know, I don't know if I could trust.

And I looked at you. And I said, no matter what I'm going to say to you right now, it looks to me whether, you know, I can give you all the cons and I can give you all, you know, my advice. and you looked at me and you were still going to do it. I had to respect your decision, even though I knew because of what you had gone through. And that's a very difficult thing to do as a parent, but you're an adult. All I could do is bring to your attention all the things that could and have already happened. And I think you knew that. I think I think it was the last stance for you where I need to prove this to my

It was a very difficult lesson you learned. But it was the best one. I'm so grateful. But it was the best one. I agree. And I'll be honest, too, for everyone that's listening, because I hear this all the time of like, this refers to friendships too. And it's like, you're right, 100%.

You have very rarely liked my friends. And usually the people that you couldn't fucking stand were the ones that ended up really hurting me. Because similar to my dating experiences that carried over into friendships of you're treating me like shit, that's okay. I don't believe in myself. So you're allowed to talk to me however you want. Well, of course.

It's comprehensive. It's every aspect of your life. You can't divorce one for the other. Of course, I sometimes see immediately, eye contact is one of the most important things. And I know it's been said over and over again. And also it's a sense of posture and attitude, you know, you can feel. You can feel. And I was going to say, outside of autism, obviously, there's a lot of people that'll say, well, I'm autistic. I don't make eye contact. It's like, that's not what we're referring to. We're referring to somebody who is very blatantly not. Oh, yes. Yes. Thank you for clarifying that. Absolutely. No, no. And you could. see the difference, yes. I mean, yeah. And it goes across in business and in every aspect. But what was interesting, and for me anyway, because I really gained a tremendous amount of respect for you is it was very difficult when you had to admit this to yourself and you took the strength. And I think that was your rock bottom. I think that that's probably like you said, what you needed to learn.

And I think that you learned it by knowing you had the strength. You were not going to allow for this to destroy you under any level. And that was the beginning of a good beginning, for sure. That was the beginning of who I am today. Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa, whether it's Verde, Roja, or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flamethrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea, and

milk. Habaniero, more like habanier, yes. Save the everyday with Amazon. That's also what I wanted you on. I wanted people to really see comprehensively that like when you have this anxiety or even whether anxious attachment or just anxiety, it does impact everybody. People in your surroundings are impacted because I would be anxious and then I'd call you freaking out and I'm crying and I'm hyperventilating and meanwhile you're like, dude, you had one fucking date with this guy. But then you can't say anything because I'm not really listening. And it's like there's a mushroom effect. And it's not, again, this isn't about anybody shaming or blaming. This is really just about stopping me like, oh shit, okay, my behavior does impact other people. It's not just me anymore. There's also others.

And how can I be a better daughter, sister, wife, I don't care, better at this by working on myself. So I don't have to then just keep spraying and praying, right, hoping that maybe someone's going to validate me. Maybe this will stick. And instead, I could say, well, wait a minute, I get to choose if this works for me or not. And then I get to have people in my life. that support that decision. Oh, absolutely. And I think one of the most important things that people, you need to allow yourself to feel the feelings. You need to allow to cry, to get it out, and to embrace what you're feeling, because if you don't, it festers. Now, that doesn't mean that you, that, you know, you're going to allow yourself to marinate and victim, you know,

not at all. I think it's very healthy. You come, you cry, you're a bit of, you're a upset, you get it out, you take a deep breath and you said, you know what? Just like it's a good laugh when you see something funny and you get it out, it's a good cry when something has pained you. Because to deny it is to deny your emotions and those emotions don't go away. Now what you resist persist. No, they do not. And they will carry through and actually they will get angrier and they will get more edgy. So you need to have them become your friend. Which was so polarizing for me growing up. because you were always so big on like, express yourself and cry and feel, which was like, okay, cool.

Yeah, we love that. But then we came from the other caregiver that would hate you if you cried that had no fucking patience for it. Like, even to this day, stop. What is this? Stop. Come on, grow up. Yeah.

And so it was so hard because learning to validate yourself and learning that that's okay, but like that was the one thing. You were always consistent about that. Every time throughout the entirety of every relationship, if I didn't matter how many times I called you crying about the same time, you would always be like, all right, let it out. I'm not going to try and stop you, but I am going to give you some love at the end of this of like, okay, it's enough. Well, you can do two things at the same time. You don't necessarily have to agree with somebody, but you also have to respect their feelings and let them feel it.

You know, people think, well, if I'm not tough on you and I don't say that means I'm agreeing or enabling the behavior, not at all, not at all. I think that that actually makes it worse. when a person feels as if they're not being seen or heard or understood, because you know what's interesting, after you would cry and after you would feel what you feel, you were calmer and more responsive to having a discussion with me because you feel comfortable and safe with me. I allowed you to be you, I allowed you to feel, and then we had the discussion. Well, what happened, Sabrina?

Oh, well, you know, I don't know, we went out on a date and everything was going well, and we had this boundary and all this, and it was wonderful. Okay. For you, it was wonderful because, and I'm not saying that maybe for him it wasn't wonderful, but it was enough for that and not enough for the next day for anything else. What does that mean? Does it mean, Sabrina, it's you? Well, it only means it's you in the sense that you were the one there.

I mean, you know, in that sense. But you, it wasn't you in the sense, well, because of you, He knew it. That was you. He didn't like you. No, not at all. And I think most of the guys that you had gone out who never did like you. But, and also, may I say, you're highly spirited. You're an amazing young woman. And not everybody knows what to do with that. I always say that when someone says, like, you deserve better, it's like, yeah, because they know you do. They know that the person they need to be for you, they can't. And did it ever occur to somebody that maybe that person feels, I don't know if I could do this. I don't know if I can give you what you want. I don't know if I could give you this. that kind of, you know, accolade. And, okay, well, thank you so much. Right. Well, to some people, with an internal hype, because I'm too much. And it's like, that's a core belief. You were taught that by somebody. It's not because this person saying, I can't step up, that suddenly now you're too much for everybody. No. Fine, fine, I'm too much. Go find less. Oh, no, absolutely. I think that

to silence someone because they have spirit and they're passionate about things and they enjoy being expressive, that's beautiful. But you're not going to find it from somebody who doesn't want it. Or doesn't have the bandwidth. Or doesn't have the bandwidth. Exactly. So why interpret that as being you? And this is why, you know, as your mother, whenever I saw you, I would say, okay, Sabrina, so the next one. This didn't work out the next one.

But it wasn't, you didn't see it the way I saw it. This was about your identity. This was about your validation. I didn't understand it to be that. So that's where at the beginning I felt powerless because I didn't know exactly what it is you were truly feeling. And then as you were crying, that's why I like it when people express themselves. They cry and they feel, I could hear you saying, but you know what? He didn't like me and it was me.

And that's when I got to understand. And I said, I see, this is how you're triggered. This is how you interpret a date. So for you, a date is not going out and having a good time. It's a mission. Yeah, it was my self-worth. Yes, it's a mission. I'm going to conquer.

I'm going to get this guy. He's going to do, I'm going to do everything and I'm going to get him and I'm going to bring home the prize. And you, when you set yourself up so high, of course you come back defeated. You lost. You lost the war. You fall off the fucking hell that you were on. And hard. Remember what I've always said to you, it's always better to stay in the lobby than in the penthouse. The fall is less. It's not as difficult. When you first start dating, yes. It doesn't say eventually you need to move up your way. But like when you start at the top, you're like, there's nowhere else to go. Well, of course not. You have, first of all, you don't know each other. So how do you just give somebody 100% of you that you just met? You give somebody 100% of you, there's nothing left for the second date. Nothing. Because if it's too much for him, he's not going to be able to handle. If this is what you can give me at just one date, what am I going to do for the next? Well, that's like the oversharing and the the and the traveling of you're like, yo, yo, yeah, yeah, comment. It should flow. You should not feel uncomfortable. You know, you meet someone, you're there together, you talk. And when you see that, it just flows and it goes.

And if you have a second date, fine. And if you don't, take that experience. Enjoy it for now, for the moment. Thanks, Ma. This was fun. I'm glad you got to be on and give some wisdom. I don't know if it's wisdom. It is.

But I feel that it's, you know, you get to a certain age and you see all these lovely people trying to find their mate. And all I say to them is enjoy your youth, enjoy your years, and have fun with it. It is not a mission. Thanks, Mom. I love you. I love you too. Guys, thank you so much for sitting with us.

This was really a unique episode. Mom was in town. I figured, fuck it. Let's have her come in and chime in. And guys, I just want you to remember, like, there's nothing wrong with you. No one's broken. There's nothing to fix. You might just have some shit to heal through like I did.

And that doesn't mean you can't. It just means that you might just need the right tools, the right help, the right somebody to help you through that. So I hope this was able to give you guys a little bit, a little something. And I love you guys as always. And thank you so much for fucking sitting with us for another week.