The Sabrina Zohar Show - 16: Joe Pt 2 answering your most asked questions in dating and more!

Episode Date: May 5, 2023

On this weeks episode Joe is back to answer your most asked questions in dating! Why do guys lie about their intentions, is it true guys know 3-6 months dating youre ‘the one?’, and what 'not ready for a relationship' truly means and so much more! Want to work with Joe? Dm him on insta HERE!  Want to work with Sabrina? HERE! Stuck After the Podcast? Master Implementation in 8 Weeks with Sabrina's Foundation Course Join the Make It Make Sense: Getting Through a Breakup course HERE! Get Ad-free episodes and 2 Bonus episodes a month HERE! Dont forget to follow Sabrina and The Sabrina Zohar Show on instagram and Sabrina on Tik tok! Video now available on YOUTUBE!  Disclaimer: The Sabrina Zohar Show, formally known as Do The Work, is not affiliated with A.Z & associates LLC in any capacity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of Do the Work podcast. My name is Sabrina Zohar, and I am going to be your host today. Guys, I'm so excited for episode 16. My big brother, Joe, is back. So stoked to have him. Last episode was so fantastic. If you guys haven't caught up, please go back. I think it's episode nine.

You can take a listen. This week, Joe and I are going to be talking about your most asked questions and answering them as well as reading an email that you guys have written in asking for our help. So I'm super also excited to announce that Joe and Masha will be revolving guest. on Do the Work podcast. So I will constantly be asking you guys for any questions that you have for him. Don't forget, if you go to the Stan Store,

the link that's in the show notes, on mine, you can submit questions for the podcast. Nothing is guaranteed that it'll be answered, but should we feel like it's an alignment with us, we will do our best to give you as much help as we can on the next episode, Joe's on. And as always, if you need anything, I've also linked in the show notes,

Joe's Stan Store. So if you have any questions, you want to ask him about, you know, dating advice, book a one-on-one with him, and also a new feature he added, which is helping you analyze your dating profile so that he can help you make the most impact and best foot forward.

This is all going to be in the stand store that is linked in the show notes. So without further ado, let's welcome Joe back and get episode 16 started. Guys, I'm so excited, Joe. Welcome back. Thank you so much for having me. Of course, guys.

So this is just part two of so many to come. Like I said, Joe and Masha are going to be our revolving guests. So please continue to send in your questions because we actually had so much fun sitting this morning for like an hour, over our coffee going through them and also being able to like see where you guys are and how we can help you more. Absolutely. Yeah. No, that kind of addressing, you know, because we could be

saying things, but if it's not applicable, then what's the point? Right. Totally. So I'm super excited. Yeah, this week we're going to really be going over a lot of stuff. So let's get kind of right on into it. But Joe, before we get started, any updates? How's your dating lift going? You know, it's going. It is going. It is going. I've actually, I'm at a wonderful place where, where I've crossed the Rubicon where I don't think I care anymore. Nice. You know what I mean?

I've, you know, it feels good to be at a place of complete abandon when it comes to results or expectations. Like now I just go, I'm just meeting a person,

you know what I mean? And it's like whether it works out or not, I've found myself not feeling any sort of one way or another about it and just feeling like at peace, whether it worked out or not, and just being grateful for their time, and for whatever conversation or action we were able to have and just moving on.

So it's been, it's been interesting. So essentially, in a nutshell, what we're saying is Joe has embodied what I've been talking about is releasing control of the outcome because it's allowing you to go out and meet people and experience people without the, it has to work. And then your self-esteem gets tied into it. It's a whole slew of things as opposed to you look at the app says, it's just a meeting app. We'll see if this, I'm going on the first date just to see if I even want to have a second date. Yeah, and I mean, you know, and even, you know, knowing this, this is why repetition and why having to kind of hear it over, it's like even as much as I have known this and have the experience that I do, you know, on one date I went on recently, it was probably one of the best dates I've ever been on since I've lived in Los Angeles in a very long.

No, yeah, in a very long time. It was just a really, you know, it was one of those where we just started for coffee and then six hours later, we're still just talking, you know, and there's just like, you know, I'm like, oh, let's go. I just kept going, you know, and I felt myself getting excited. And I was like, wait a minute. This is the thing that usually always causes pain. So I'm going to like not. I had to like, I was like, this is what I hear so many people telling me that they're feeling when they're doing.

So it's like even knowing it. And you know what? I'm glad that I did because we went on a couple dates. And then afterwards, you know, you start getting the excuses. Oh, why you can't meet. And there's this. And, you know, I was like, wow. I'm before I want to say I don't know maybe at this point you know

a handful of years ago six seven years ago I probably would have taken that to heart and I would have been like what did I do wrong she said all the right things she said she understood my mind she appreciated you know the perspective and the value in communication and how much we linked I mean she showed up you know Brett Easton Ellis is one of my favorite authors and she showed up you know being like I was like oh what book are you reading She's like, oh, I'm reading American Psycho. And she's like, that's what I'm reading right now. And for me, that was just one of those things where I was like, wow, you know, okay, who is this person, you know, in terms of it to me.

So it was very easy for me to romanticize this future. And I had to curb that. I had to be like, wow, despite literally doing so many things that are on my like dream girl checklist, which is like always the beginning of the end in that way. I still had to be like, no. And I'm so glad that I did because when it happened and when, when it happened and when, life was happening for her, I had to just wish her the best. And normally that would have really hurt. I would have felt hurt. I would have been discouraged. I would have felt less than. I would have felt undesirable. And this point, I was like, you know what? I wish you the best.

I hope everything's okay. And I was back at it again being like, cool, who else is out there? Yeah. And that felt good. You know what I mean? Like that was one of those, because I'll be honest with I haven't been, I haven't felt like that in a while. Like, you know, as soon as you get your defenses up and you're pretty good at reading people and you get that and you create and you have your boundaries, you know, sometimes you'll notice a lot of people don't get past, you know, that, the guarding line. You know what I mean? So it's like when somebody does and you're like, hey, and you start to entertain those thoughts,

you really want to, really want to go for it and take it to the extreme. And it's like, no, you're engaging with that person in that moment, romanticizing a potential outcome. Well, it's only going to lead you to disappointment because you, and then also what it's, what it does is it's not fair to the other person either because you are setting them up and creating a version of who you think that they are. And I see this all the time. Like, we got a lot of emails of like, the guy was great in the beginning. And then, you know, something happened. And it's like, no, what happened was that the person became who they actually are. And actually, Joe and I had talked about this girl. He had one way of thinking. And then as we

started to digest it a little bit more, it was. oh no, that person actually had a little bit of an avoidance and wasn't just communicative. And, you know, when you start to really have the self-awareness to call yourself out on your shit to say, wait a minute. And this, I think, is the truest testament to healing doesn't mean that one day you wake up and you're okay. What that really means is the triggers that used to trigger you no longer have the same effects over you. And that you are able to remove yourself, because the Four Agreements is my favorite, like one of my favorite books. And the whole thing is that don't take everything so personally. And when you can start to strip that away and look at it as,

you know what I'm excited about that I even just met somebody that was cool. That was, what that did is reinstilled confidence into me that they exist and that I'm even more excited now that when I do meet somebody that reciprocates with me, fuck how awesome that's going to be. Yeah. And yes, absolutely. And I think a big part of, you know, just because you have these boundaries set up doesn't mean that now anybody that you start interacting. with it's just going to be successful. Like, well, I got my shit together. Now it's just going to happen.

It's like, no, really what it is is just about continuing to kind of wade through those waters, giving you the strength to be like, you know what? My boundaries are there to protect me from getting too damaged, from getting to the point where I recede or I isolate too much. That's one of the main benefits that I learned that I didn't even really think about. You know, you think about boundaries. Oh, okay. this is to keep others from doing something to me.

But I didn't necessarily think about it. It took me a while to realize like, oh, man, these boundaries are actually just good for me to continue on, to be a peace with myself, not only to let somebody stop hurting me, but for me to stop hurting myself. They don't keep people out. They protect what's in.

And like I had a therapist that put it really beautifully that I love. She was like, you look at boundaries. It's like they are trying to find you on the map so that they know where to meet you instead of them searching everywhere. It's not, I had somebody right the other day. No, it's not boundaries. You're just giving them a roadmap on how to play you. And I was like, no, what that sounds like is that you don't trust yourself that you'll be able to differentiate.

Yeah. You can't always blame. It's not everybody. It's not always everyone else. It's not always this person fucked me over. If you're, if right now, if you're going to take an assessment of your dating life and it always revolves around that other people are doing on to you, then that is where you need to stop and take a minute to go, I need to hold myself accountable. Because even like Joe did where he just said, you know what? I started to romanticize this girl.

I started to completely over. And it's absolutely. Yeah. No, and it was and it felt good. Of course it does. Like I'm going to. It's absolutely.

And I was like, oh, man. And it's so easy to fall no matter what. And that's why, you know, it's about having good people around you. Yeah. Having people that you can confide in and talk to,

you know, and it's just like, and it's really, you know, exactly. I was talking about it with my sister, you know, with you afterwards.

And I was like, wow, okay. You know, I was like, oh, she's really great at communication. She's really great at all.

these things. And then once we actually looked at the actions and what was happening, you're like, actually she wasn't. No. That's why I was like, and I had to be like, oh, yeah, okay, interesting, you know, and it's like, right. You know, and who doesn't want to get excited about meeting another person? You know, that's why we're all doing that. Yeah. You know, the problem and that's the reason why it's like, okay, those boundaries help, you know, they're, I think about it is like, you know, it's padding for the score. You know, it's like, if you went into football with no pads, you're going to get trucked and you're done after a couple games, right? And it's like, most likely you're not going to find love in the first couple.

You know what I mean? You're not going to become an all-star in that first couple games. So you need something that protects you, protects you so you can show up the next day. If you didn't do that well on the field on the second game, you know, you know you still have a bunch more to go and versus being like, I'm out, that's it. I'm injured. I can't play anymore. And then I think the last thing, because boundaries are something that a lot of people

ask about. so I'm glad we hit this before we get into our questions. But I think the last thing is we were going live before this. And somebody had said, you know, should I share my boundaries early on in dating? And someone said, no, you don't need to just watch their behavior. And it's like, no, no, no, no, here's the difference. You don't need to unsolicited set your boundaries. You don't need to, you match with a guy.

It's not all bad. So by the way, I don't want something casual. I only want a relationship. So if you want to go out with me and to do what you're trying to do is you're trying to mitigate your risk, but you can't control other people. So it's about trusting yourself and saying, I will share my boundaries. when I need to. So, like, for instance,

Joe brought up a great example of, like, instead of walking in the date of like, I'm not going to sleep with you tonight and blah, blah, blah, you don't need to say, what that tells the other person is, this person's insecure. They're not confidence. They need to,

who are you trying to convince me or yourself? Versus at the end of the night, when the guy says, oh, you want to come back to my house? No, I really appreciate that. I'm not interested in it, but I'd love to see you again. But I hope you have a great night.

That is setting a boundary. No, I don't want to, but thank you so much. Not of my interest. I'm not. I'm a really intentional dater. I don't want to do the casual thing. But it was great to have met you.

I'd love to see you again for drinks. She knows. How? Did you blam? No. The Devil Wears Prada, too. He's the movie event 20 years in the making. Honestly, can't with the secrets anymore, so I think we just should tell her.

Will you two please spit it out already? This Friday, be the first to experience it only in theaters. In light of the recent scandal, I'm here to restore your credibility. Oh, because we're a team now? That's a nice story. The Devil Wares Prada 2 in Theatis Friday. Because when you broadcast it like that initially, when it's not reactionary, as you said, and, you know, it's coming off in the moment, then, you know, you start to kind of, you know, it's kind of like, what's, okay, here's a fun analogy for that. You know, you become the scary character in the mood.

And what I mean by that is, you know, when you go the haunted house or the place that you're not supposed to go in a lot of the, what do you see? you see the no trespassing sign with all the, you know, the will bite you don't do this. And you're like, whoa, I'm not going to go there. You know what I mean? And a lot of that, that's sort of the sign. Every time you walk past it, you're like, man, I don't know what's going on there.

And it's when you state those kind of declarations is almost like, you know, it's your no trespassing sign. Right. You know, when you're setting all those, it's just like, okay, clearly something has like caused an issue there that you know, you're not living in the moment. You're bringing in whatever previous traumas to the current situation.

And no man or no woman as well wants to feel that way. Nobody wants to feel that they're being judged by somebody else's behaviors. So let's get into the questions, right? I think we have caught up and I'm stoked. And now we're going to answer some questions that you guys have asked. And we'll do as many as we can.

So, yeah, keep it. We'll keep it. There's rapid fire, right? Yeah. Rapido. So is it true guys, no, three to six months into dating that you are the one. Many situation ships end after three months. Right.

See, putting time, I don't think it's not about the amount of time as to when somebody knows. For me, and I think for men, I'll go out on men and you can perhaps comment from a female perspective. usually from what I've gathered, and even in my own experience, men usually, it becomes real after some sense of conflict. Yeah. Like, okay, once we go through conflict with somebody, that's when we begin to kind of see them as a potential partner. So whether that's after two months, three months, year, whatever that is, for men,

it usually tends to be, wow, we just went through something difficult. we went through something tough and you were able to, you know, you didn't abandon me. You didn't leave me. You didn't yell at me. You stood here and you heard me and you tried to empathize with me and you didn't bring any of that. And usually after that strong form of conflict or when you're able to overcome and get to the other side, that's when a man feels safe to open up in that way to be like, wow, okay, now I think there's something potential for greater. At least that's what it is with me. And you know what I will say?

like I do have to agree because when tech guy and I, we, you know, we had like, we had a lot of serious conversations. And for me, that wasn't the tell all that we were, it just was more of a like, I test and then I kept investing. Like, okay, I felt safe with him. I felt comfortable. I felt seen hurt and understood. But it wasn't until he almost fucking killed me on that hike where we went, I don't even know if I told you. Well, we went to the desert for a hike and he brought his dog. And we had looked at all trails and it was like, oh, yeah, it's an easy hike, no big deal. Whatever, whatever. It fucking lied. And to get to the caves that we were going to, We went three hours into the desert at 90 degrees in that day and realized at halfway market,

the three hours, it was all the way uphill. And we were like, we can't make it, not with the dog, not with our water. And we stopped. And we both, we rationed our water. We had a serious fucking chat. And we were like, let's do this. We got to get back. And we hustled two and a half hours back to the car.

We kept, we had plans. Okay, if the dog passes out, then Ryan, you're going to take him. But then you're going to take him and you're going to handle this and yada yada. And I had my responsibilities. And when we got back into the car, he kept saying, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. And I was like, babe, it's okay. You didn't do this intentionally.

Let's just get it done. And when we got back to the car, I remember his response was, now more than ever, I feel comfortable and safe and confident that we have a future here. He was like, because you were a partner to me. And for me, I kind of had that same aha moment of like, to me, this is very much, does it mean that he's the one? No. Because I don't think you just figure that out.

To me, it's a progression of a series of events. You've reached the next level. Exactly. You know, it's like, you know, there's many levels to, you know, to anything. So here's the thing. The reason I think why many situations end after three months, that is when the check that they wrote has to be cashed. Joe, you have used that example for me so many times.

I would go to Joe for years and share, and you'd be like, you wrote a check, he wasn't ready to cash. And it's because at that three month mark, you've spent time together, the real version of who they are starts to come out. They can't hide from that anymore. And it's the shit or get off the pot. And that's why at that, usually at that mark is when you start having the conversation of like, so what are we doing here?

Where are we going with this? It's less about they see you as the one versus they're just realizing, I don't want to continue doing this. Correct. Yeah. And that's why time is a misleader. Like, oh, it's been X amount of months or weeks or et cetera. And, you know, men, what, what crosses a boy to manhood is perseverance through

conflict, is that sense of I've been through it. And I was able to make it out. And I figured that's usually where men gain that confidence, whether it's through work, personal relationships, romantic relationships, you know, travel, family, whatever those, you know, everybody, the conflict in their life that they have to persevere through can take many shapes and forms. It's just that's usually what it is. So, and I, you know, as time, like now I've gotten more season and now being.

aware of that, I do things to bring that on as early as possible. Oh, yeah. Like, exactly, through an example. Because that's when you mentioned the conflict of the hike up the hill, you actually remind me me of a good point. It's a conflict doesn't have to be like an emotional one. Right. It doesn't have to be, we're yelling at each other.

We're throwing. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. Life, just adversity. The idea that together we can get through this. That's what a man. and really, really craigs. He craves that, like, can she do this? Will she be by my side when things get tough?

Yeah. All right. So I think this kind of goes into our next question, which when I read this, I'm not going to lie. I got a little sad. And it says, why do guys lie about their intentions with dating? Friends say it's sex. Now, for me personally, I would say that here's a harsh reality.

I think that maybe your friends aren't saying. I think it's an easy default to go, oh, they just wanted sex, to villainize the other person so that it takes the onus off of you. But I hate to break it to you. Just because somebody wants a relationship doesn't mean that they want one with you. Their intentions could have been that they really do want a girlfriend. And as they got to know you, it's she's not the person that I want to do this with. Right.

You know, I think I'll kind of sum up my thought on that is that it's like, well, yes, while all men want sex, that doesn't mean that sex is the only thing all men want. Right. So I think that there really needs to be an understanding of that. So it's like, and as you said, of course, it's an easy default because it's like, well, right. Any healthy male has sexual urges that they want gratify. But that doesn't mean that that's all that they want.

No. You know what I mean? And I am one of those people. I, you know, attraction and physical appearance and goods. It's like that stuff is enough to get your foot in the door. You know, it's like, okay, I find this person attractive. We're doing this. But that by no means will keep you in the meeting.

No, and I used to, that was my defense mechanism. I used to use sex as a means of control of like, oh, if I do this, they're going to love with me and da-da-da. And I'd be devastated because it's like, that's not all it takes. It takes the bandwidth of the other person also to receive it. And I remember I even asked tech guy, I was like, you know, when we hooked up on the first date, like, what were your thoughts? And he was like, I mean, I thought we had a great time.

Why wouldn't I want to see you again? He was like, I wasn't thinking that I wanted you to be my wife. He's like, but I just remember thinking she's super cool. She's fun. Yeah, I want to see her again. We had a great time. And he was like, and you were super chill. Like you weren't freaking out.

You were just letting it kind of progress versus I see it all the time of like, I'm going to make him wait this amount of time or I'm going to do this. And it's like, those people actually have a higher propensity of eye on the prize. They're just trying to get that because you have dangled the carrot in front of them. Yes. Yes. And, you know, and I would point out. that's a really good example because, you know, if you, if you weren't in a healthy state

and ground, emotionally grounded, that could have, that response could have really kind of triggered and bothered you. Yeah. You'd be like, what? We just said, what do you mean? You don't want a relationship with me. You know, his honest answer and the fact that you were at peace with it, it showed the maturity and that's why it's working.

Like those are just some of the things. Sometimes it's that simple where it's like, because you could have easily been. Totally. What? I want to relate. What do you mean? You don't know what you would. Then why did you?

You could have put that on it. You could have dumped that. Totally. But being, you know, you were like, great. That's all that is required right now is more. Like step by step. Great. We had an amazing first time and you want to see me again.

I'm going to take that as a win. Totally. Yeah. And here, I mean, so this is kind of this other question. But the reason I put a lot of these questions next to each other is because I was like, yeah, we're kind of hitting them all. Guy told me after six weeks of intense dating, said he wasn't ready than ghosted, how to move on. So what I want to talk about first is, do you think I'm surprised by this question?

So Guy told me after six weeks of intense dating, that guy was chasing a feeling. Here I go again. Mom, mom, our mom, I forget. Our mom has said this from the beginning. When they started 100, where else do you want them to go? You can't. It has to be a slow progression. You can't just go out the gate.

So six weeks of intense dating and then said, he wasn't ready, then ghosted. You know what that tells me? That's very on brand for that. Because the people that come out the gate hardest, it's because they're chasing a feeling and they're going after the idea of you. And what makes them feel validated and good is doing things for you to then see, I got her. They're not actually after you. They're after the idea of you. Then all of a sudden, suddenly it's, I'm not ready for this. And then the bolt. Because they weren't ever intentionally dating you for that reason. They were just coming in real. Why do you Can glove bombers do that?

No, yeah. I mean, you know, I like to make analogies to things, just to help with understanding because talking about some of these things, people could take so much of the emotional things. But I, so here's an analogy. You know, it's what league is this person in? And what I mean by that is like, what sport are they competing in? And so I wouldn't have somebody who's, you know, who run the.

a hundred-yard dash, run a marathon. Like, it's a different sport. It's a different, it's a different category of competition. And, you know, somebody that's really good at gassing it and giving it their all for a short amount of time is a lot different than somebody who's like, I balance and I have a steady pace that gets me over a long period of time. So, really, I've had to be like, and generally those characteristics come to the surface. It's like, okay, what game are you playing?

Are you in this for the marathon? Are you in this for the long haul? Or are you just like, I want to see how fast we can go in the shortest amount of time? And, you know, and then at that point, that's where the personal responsibility has to come in. That's when you have to be like, okay, because usually most men are broadcasting the sport that they are playing. Whether they think they're being slick about it, most of them are not. You know what I mean? And it's like any woman who is like, I am at peace, I am secure of myself, can spot that and sniff that nonsense out in a second.

So that's why it's like, okay, if you're getting kind of gamed by guys like that, if things are, you're interacting, you're getting that kind of response, it's like, oh, okay, what are, what are we not seeing? Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa, whether it's Verde, Roja, or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flame thrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea, and milk. Habaniero? More like habanier, yes. Save the everyday with Amazon. And can I tell you how many questions were revolving around that game of like, we text all the time.

We text every single day for like three months and then we went on on one date and now he doesn't want it. It's like because you exactly what I'm saying, the person, they looped you. They knew exactly what they were doing. Like you use the pool analogy. The guy knows how to go into the shallow. A dude knows. I remember the guy that I dated in L.A. before I moved here. You didn't know him.

But I remember asking him, I was like, man, you were really good at all of that beginning stuff. And he goes, what do you think is my first time? And that's where I had this awareness. I was like, you know exactly how to get all of this. So you think the guy that's texting you all day every day before you guys have met and he's super communicativity, super the, and the, and then the second you guys have one or two dates, then suddenly he fizzles. You don't think that he knew exactly what he needed to do to get you to that date?

Correct. And this is, you know, now we're kind of getting into a topic that I actually feel very passionate about, which is like, well, you know, it's the burning the checklist and it's the idea of, you know, it's when reality kind of meets, you know, when reality kind of smacks you in the face. because a big part of it, and I have to really, I really stress this with people, is like we have to evolve

on like what notions of proper engagement on. And the reasons why these guys do this and while they'll gas it's so hard is because, you know, and like, oh, the coming on so strong is because that's what we're primed as a society to understand is like,

that's the way it should be. You watch every rom-com, you watch every, all of these things. And it's guys going way above and beyond and doing, like going, it's super extreme.

So women are primed to think like, oh, my God, if he's not doing those things, then he's not into me. When in reality, it's like, no, most real people, it's like, no, man, I just, I want to meet you and I want to take it as it comes. And if you can't see the genuine version of who I am, then that's on the other person.

Because you, it's your eyes that need to be conditioned to see the truth. You can't put that, oh, you can't put the Otis on the other person to be like, oh, well, you need to always come correct in that way. You know, it's like we can want to, but don't be surprised if you're constantly disappointed. You know what I mean? Versus building your radar, building your sense,

working on yourself to be like, oh, okay, instead of putting that on them, I'm going to train and get my sense is more attuned to sniffing it out and seeing and being able to identify these things that I used to let, that I used to just ignore. Well, somebody asked,

and that was the other question, why do you guys show so much interest and then pull away for no reason? it's not no reason. They showed a lot of interest in you to get you there to the date. Then when they met you, you were not what they either.

I used to tell this to mom all the time. I'd be like, I go out on these dates and I'm like, they create this version of who they think I am. And then they meet me and I'm not. And I'm like, I can't control that. I can't control that because they had these perceptions of me of who I am on paper.

Right. So now let's answer an email. Now this was a really short email, but honestly, sometimes short and sweet gets to the fucking point. And I think this is something that we do get asked a lot, just even in general, like, what is a secure, healthy relationship even look like?

How do I actually know I'm ready? And so someone said, I've been burnt out by life and love lately. Someone came along and I don't want to miss an opportunity, but I don't know if the time is right. Right. Well, I mean, that is, I've been there. Yeah. I'm sure you have. I've been there.

And, you know, I think it kind of comes down to, you know, you can't win if you don't play. Right. So, you know, if it's, and you never know. And here's the thing, it shouldn't be that big of a risk if you don't have these lofty expectations attached to the result. So if you're not in a great place or you're unsure, it's like, okay, it's not like you have to marry this person if you meet them. Right. You know, so if you're on, you know, sometimes there's a little bit of like, okay, just get over yourself. Like there's a little bit of like.

And what I mean by get over yourself is I don't want to do it. Fuck and I'm going to do it anyway. Right. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not in the right space, but what's the real harm that can come in just having a cup of coffee with somebody? That's the reasons why I like to keep it very relaxed and basic is to just remove all of that initial anxiety. Because worst case, and it's like, that's how I create the situation for low stress on the other end. It's just like, hey, great.

You didn't get all dalda. You didn't spend $800 to get ready and to beautify yourself. you didn't have to travel two hours and get on a plane or to come and see me. It's like, you had a cup of coffee. And it's like, you know, if that doesn't work and you're not seeing that, well, then great, then we can go. And that way you begin, that's what will, I think that's what kind of removes a little bit of that burnout.

Yeah. I mean, well, they're saying too, someone came along and I don't want to miss an opportunity. And it's like, listen, you've got to play to win. You have more reward than you do risk. That's what, yes, exactly. If you are able to go out, and this is somebody had asked, too, of like, how do I know what, like, taking it slow, you know, and means versus, like, they're disinterested.

And it's like, just because you're going at it slow to make sure that this is somebody that you genuinely want to be with doesn't mean that that has to be, like, weeks in between every time you hang out. That just means that you're not putting the cart before the horse. You are genuinely spending time with them to really get to know them. There's no, well, what if this turns into this and what if this and it has to do this, It's releasing the control to the outcome and just getting to know them authentically. Well, I mean, I think, you know, that's the key to it is the getting to know somebody.

And, you know, because it's about living life with a person. That's the whole thing. And, you know, and sometimes you get good days. Sometimes you get bad days. And exactly. The reward far exceeds the risk of, you know, wasting 15 minutes or 20 minutes of your time after coffee with somebody who you didn't connect with. You know what I mean?

And especially if you have somebody interested and is it the right, you know, there's never any right time for anything. Well, you know. And so my thought, exactly, you can't win if you don't play. And the way to avoid that burnout is to minimize the hoopla. Yeah. The fanfare around. The texting. That's the whole, exactly, because it's, you know, I think people would be a lot more relaxed meeting people if they were like, oh, cool.

Because the anxiety comes from what we were talking about, oh, I got to get all pretty and I got to spend all this money and I got to go get my hair done. I got to get my nails. I got to do that stuff that's like, that's way more anxiety inducing than, like, oh, let me just sit, have a cup of coffee with somebody. That in conjunction with as well, the story that you've created prior, because you guys have been texting all the time and you met on a nap and you turned to, chatting for three weeks or a month and you're texting nonstop and that's why you get burnt out from it because you're constantly, I'm disappointed and I'm disappointed because you're not being a better buyer. You're kind of, not the proverbial you, not you specifically you. But like I know for me, it wasn't, it's not that it'll happen when you least expected. It happens when you release control

to the outcome, you just let it happen. Like, that's what happened with me in tech guy. For when we met, talk about not the right time, Plem had just passed away. I had just ended at things three days prior before I met him with the other guy I was seeing. After, after. like a quick, you know, month and a hafer. And it's like on all on paper, I was not somebody that would have been like, this is, this is totally the wrong time. I was moving. My career was changing.

My entire life was changing. So the reason it worked is because when I met him, I was like, yeah, whatever. I guess let's just see what happens. Well, okay. Well, now we're getting into perspective, which is key. So, you know, and this is one person's, this is the worst time for me is another person's, this is the perfect opportunity to let somebody in. Yeah.

and to see if they can give me what I need. So that is something another time often over, oh, I just don't feel right. Or it's like, oh, good, good. Yeah. Good. You are feeling not complete. It's like that is the whole purpose of trying to find a partner and to date is to help

fill in certain blanks and how two can become one. That's the whole point of the thing. So having that and feeling that way, it's like, great. You've peeled back all those onion layers that of what you don't need. That's what that says to me. That the experience. It's just like, hey, I'm so in touch with myself now that it's like, man, I feel, you know, vulnerable in this space. And I don't know about this.

And, you know, I'm really, I could use help here. It's like, great. We've peeled back all those layers of the onion of, oh, okay, so it's not that I need somebody to call me every day. It's not that I need, you know, somebody to dote on me and buy me stuff. Okay. You know, and as you peel those layers back, you begin to be what's left with, oh, this is what actually matters. So, and, you know, it's like flip that card, use it as an opportunity to let somebody in and to let them show you how they can be a great partner to you. Especially after like, when you have one after another after another, your nervous system is, is

disregulated. So it's like, it's all amuck. So you know what's also equally as uncomfortable? Someone that does want to be with you because you're so used to the opposite. Like when I met tech guy, that was my biggest struggle was accepting, wait, you actually like me. Like you actually like me. This isn't something. And it's like that was equally as uncomfortable because it went against the norm of what I was used to. The great catch 22 of dating. Right. You know, we don't, people don't know what they want. No. And that can be really tough. which is, you know, that could be really tough when you're trying to find somebody to spend the rest of your life with. You know what I mean?

That's what we're talking about here, right? We're not talking about fun. We're talking about the rest of your life. And you know what I think it's too? It's like a lot of people don't know what they want or what they need. They don't actually like for so long. That was the whole onion layer analogy. It's like right.

You know, knowing what to do is a great thing if you're lucky enough to stumble upon that. Yeah. But what is equally helpful or can lead to the same thing is knowing what not to do. And enough of what not to do, you cross enough of those things off and you're, you know, it's deductive kind of detective work. Eventually you're left with what you do need once you get rid of everything you don't. And that is really where I think healthy relationships coming, which is why it's so ironic to me that people are like, I want to meet somebody when I'm in the best place.

point of my life. It's like, okay, all right, I understand the initial logic of that. Right. But let's play that out. That's all the whole day. Life is much more complicated than like than logic would assume, right? Oh, you know, logic states, wow, this person is, is showing me interesting and is texting me. That must mean he likes me. Right. Well, real world has shown that that is, that doesn't equate. That is, that is a false equivalency. Yeah. So, and this is just another one of those. We don't know what we want. So us thinking, like, hey, I'm in the best point in my life. Now is when I'm ready to receive.

It's like, okay, what you're, you know, it's like, okay, and that might be great until conflict happens. Right. Because that's when the real truth of can this work rises to the surface. Yeah. So, and if you meet at that time, if you meet at a time where you're like, you know, I'm pretty vulnerable about this. You know, I just started this new job.

And I'm starting a new career path. I walked away from people who were bad. for me and I am trying to elevate, get a new circuit, whatever that, whatever transitional, you know, I'm not fully where I want to be yet is a perfect time, I think, to meet somebody. And we so often just write that off. Totally. I'm like, I think, too, it could be what's really great is like, you can also express yourself to the person and like, I used to tell tech guy that.

I'd be like, this is, I like you. Like, this is, I'm trying to open up to you. And I want you to know that like, I might, you know, like the, like the reader said of, like I've been, I've dealt with a lot. You're really great. I genuinely do want to see where this goes. And, you know, thanks for kind of bearing with me. I just want to move a little slower to really ensure I get to know you for you.

It's really sexy to be communicative and also share a bit of vulnerability with this person because if they could chuckle and maybe say the same thing and then you feel a little bit more connected to them because you both shared a little bit part of yourself that maybe you were afraid to. Right. I mean, growth comes through conflict. Oh, yeah. So, you know, that that's why. It's like if you want to grow with somebody, well, then you can't be afraid of conflict.

Right. You know, and that's always, you know, when people are like, oh, well, there's conflict. So he's not free. It's like, well, no. Oh, it should be easy. It's like, no, it's what's it. Yeah. What's worth it is easy?

You know what? It should be simple, not easy. It should flow. You know what I mean? And that's a big, you know, that's another word. Yeah. Those two words often get misunderstood all the time. Oh, it's so easy.

Oh, it's so simple. You know, just just do this. So, so easy. It's like, no, no. Something can be simple and incredibly difficult. Totally. You know, it's very simple to be vulnerable with somebody and to just say what's on your mind and to open up.

It's like, it's simple. Right. You know, I don't, I don't need a physics degree to do that. But that doesn't mean that it's easy. Yeah. So, you know, in that, so a lot of it, you know, we have to get over some of these, like, this is the way it shouldn't. And this is the way that I was told.

And if it's not this, then it's automatically wrong. Okay. You know, for me, I've had to. to adjust my parameters. And it's like, okay, you know, it's not necessarily your job or where you come from or money or any of that. I'm like, oh, you know, is this person respectful? Right.

Is this person, you know, does he treat other? How does he treat servers? Right. Yeah. How does he treat the people, you know, who were at his, at that given moment? You know, it's like, those are the things that I'm like, okay, this is much more indicative of your personality than anything else.

And how does he take boundaries from you or no? Or how does he exactly. It's like how, like I always say, I don't care how you feel about them. I care how you feel with them. Do you feel seen, hurt and understood? Do you feel safe to express yourself that this person isn't going to lash out? Or, you know, it's like, that's the stuff.

So while it might be scary that you're meeting somebody new, go slow. It's okay. There is no, you use that marathon analogy. And it's so true of like, are you trying to actually see if there's just a sustainable long-term relationship? Then, quote, there's no fucking rush. Yes. And, you know, and here's the reality, a lot of you guys, lot of girls, and guys aren't going to like hearing this or are going to be like, that sucks, which I will start

off by saying that it does. Some of you might be the training to get to that marathon. It's true. Guy doesn't run. You don't just be like, hey, wake up one day. And it's just like, no, you got to get out there and you got to fail. You got to get out there and be like, man, I gave it my all. And I couldn't go the full distance. But you know what? I'm going to try again. And I'm going to keep. And you know what? The next time I did it, I got two miles further. The next time I got three miles further. And then eventually you'll be like, wow, I can go the distance. Yeah. And at that point, you're, and once you're out of there, maybe hopefully that person

that you're with, you are able to see it all the way through. And if not, it's like eventually, you will complete the marathon if that is what the goal is. If that's what you are training for. Yeah. There's actually like there's a podcaster and he said that and he was like, you are as a woman, he's like, if you think you're going to change a guy, he's like, you might be the catalyst and the next girl will benefit off of it. But sometimes you really are that person, you are the one that got away for them to go, man, yeah, I fucked up. I need to shape up. And then they meet somebody else.

And that is. I've had that happen to me with exes before where they're like, I fixed you. And now the next girl gets to reap all the benefits. And it's like, you know, that that is, it sucks. But that is a, that is. And you know what? And what I had to, you know, part of me kind of growing up a little bit was, you know, when that happens to you, it hurts.

Yeah. But it's realizing, oh, I. have done the same thing. And it's like, I wasn't wrong when I did it. Oh, okay. You know, and it's like, that's when it starts to stitch where you're like, oh, I just, you know, and when you think about it, when you flip, when you turn the table and you look in the mirror, right?

And you're like, oh, well, have you ever done? Of course I have. It's like, yeah, but what I did is because this, this and this is like, and you don't think that's exactly what they're thinking. Yeah, that's when that's my thing of like, don't take it personally. It's not personal. How many times I'll say, I'm like, let me ask you, the last guy you went out with that you weren't into.

And they're like, yeah, he's a nice guy. I just didn't feel it. It's like, and that's enough. And then you see, you see the realization of them of like, I see what you mean. It's like, it's not a part. It's not about them. It's not personal. You know, like, I could have been the nicest person in the world.

I know that I've had to make peace with that. I'm an acquired taste. Yeah. I have a lot of energy. I can be, I'm a very passionate person. And this is what I learned. That's what I've heard every woman say they want. But it's like, right, let's play that out.

It's like, okay, passion means dedication, means ambition, means focus. on tasks, which tends to mean less attention to you. Yeah. You know, and to people. And to things. And it's like, this is a reality. It's like, you want that, right? It's like, I mean, who doesn't want the passionate, wealthy?

I've got all this free time. It's like, great. And if you're lucky to stumble on to the three people in America or in the wherever you are that happened to fit that, then you were given a gift and you should be grateful everything. But for the rest of us who are living life every day and are in the real world, you know, it's like, you know, we're going to have our failures. And it's like that doesn't mean that you don't show up the next day to train again.

Right. You know, it's like, I've heard people, oh, man, I'm so sore. There's no way I could go to the gym. It's like, no, are you sore? That's the best time. Like, no, this is how you break through. Get in there and push yourself even further and know that you can do more. And that there is possibility to exert, you know, and it's like, oh, that wasn't my limit.

you know, and a lot of guys are told and there's guys, you know, we love playing into stereotypes, and this is people, not just men. We love humans, love playing into stereotypes when it's convenient. Oh, well, you know, I'm just a guy. So yeah, you know, of course I'm just always interested

and just says, and like, that's why I don't want that. And it's like, that's why it's socially acceptable for me to treat you disposedly. It's like, no, no, no, sorry. That's, you know, but those are real, you know what I mean? So I just think, yeah, I think at the end of the day, I can totally understand for a lot of people out there that are, you've been hurt a lot. I get it. Listen, dating can be really, it can be hurtful. It can be painful. It could be frustrating. It can be a lot of those things. But it's also okay to tap out for a minute, do a little bit of shit that you need to do on yourself, start to figure out some stuff, really the root cause of this. That way, when you, you know that you are ready to date when I have kind of three pillars, when you stop taking everything so fucking personal. when you know that rejection is part of dating and that you get excited to meet people, not this has to work and I'm tired of this.

And so I think if you are finally met, you're burned out, you're overwhelmed. You finally met somebody that seems really great. Go slow. It's okay. And by the way, here's another thing that, you know, and let's define a little bit of like going slow. Yeah. What does that mean? Some people are like, ooh, I don't have sex for, you know, two months.

It's like, okay, that is one definition of going slow. Totally. You know, I think that that creates, well, but more specifically, it's like, you know, going slow can just be let's live life together for a little bit. Right. Before bringing on all these grand concepts of relationships and are we going to get, you know, forever, you know, it's like, okay, that's what I mean by taking it slow. That doesn't mean I don't treat the woman with respect.

and that I don't shower her with attention whenever I can when we're together, you know, because there's another thing. I'm the type. Sometimes it's like, it's right. When I'm when non-farmier or where I'm working, they may be like, oh, I didn't hear from you today or like, you know, it's like I'm not, but when I'm with them, they get my full attention. And so you have to understand people's capacity and how they're making the sacrifices to

fix you into their life. Going slow isn't an excuse for bad behavior. Going slow isn't a, well, he, I only. see once a month and we go to his hat. No, no, no, no, no. Going slow is intentionality in the time you're spending with this person. Because I'll get messages of people being like, I wanted to be exclusive with him after two dates. And I'm like, the fuck are you trying to expite. You want to rush not getting hurt. You want to have a guarantee. And dating is no, you got to release that. Yeah. I mean, one of my exit, you know, was great. And like, we had a good one. It just,

and it ended very amicably. It was totally fine. But I had an amazing time the entire time we working together because and it was like and we were talking about and it was slowly but it was like okay and you know what we were still you know we it was we were sexually very active we saw each other all to all these things so it's like but we were still taking it slow right and it was because it was like great let's go let's keep introducing new elements yeah into our relationship and see if if we still want to see each other afterwards right you know it's like hey cool cool we've done a lot of the local neighborhood stuff. I know we can go out and we can have dinner and we can drink and we can have fun. That's great. I can check. Great. Now let's go maybe let's go somewhere on nature.

Let's see how you are outside of, you know, trendy restaurants and things like that, right? Okay. Now we, oh, let's try go taking a trip somewhere you've never been. All these are all things where it's like, okay, there's no lifelong commitment there. And it doesn't have to be every single week or every day. But, you know, we did those things. And to me, that was still taking it. slow, even though people will comment and be like, you guys have gone out and gone to more places than I have with my husband who I've known in six months than we have in two years. And it's like, okay. And I was still, I was like, but we're still taking it slow. Yeah. Like, we're still out there. We're doing things. We're having a great time together. We're seeing each other, but we're still letting it

happen. Well, I mean, we both know that we care about each other. It's not like, oh, we're just using the other person for any of that. It was just like, no, we both understood what forever. ever meant. We both understood what it really meant where we're like, man, we're really right here. We're connecting eye to eye. But as you become an adult and as you know, you know that love and that strong connection isn't enough. No, and like, even when I'm at tech guy, I would tell them all the time. I was like, I want to go slower because I was like, I'm not ready to be your girlfriend. I'm not ready to put a label on. And I was like, I actually just want to get to know you. And it was like what you just said of like,

I want to seem different experiences. I want to see you around your friends. I want to see you when we do this, this and then I grew, grew, grew. We were both not dating other people. This wasn't about, oh, well, I'm going to keep my options open. It had nothing to do with it. So I think it's communication, receptivity, honesty. And if both of you guys are picking up what each other is putting down, just fucking enjoy it.

But awesome. Yeah, yeah, I think that's pretty good. I will say there's one final point because like to that, you know, I know kind of like one of the initial questions that pops up in people's mind is like, oh, well, so then when do you have that talk then of like what's going on? You know, and most of the time with that, you know, because let's let's be real. When people are like, want to have that conversation, most women are like, hey, are we excluded, you know, we together, et cetera.

Really what the core of what they're asking is, are you fucking anybody else? Exactly. Yeah. Because that's really. And by the way, so, so that's the thing. I've had a number of women be like, I'm like, is it that you're like, I want to know if we're together or is it you just want to make sure he's not sleeping with another woman while you two are together.

And that is a perfectly acceptable line in the sand to have. So it's like, I've told him, I'm like, okay, that's a much different thing of like, hey, it's okay. I'm not saying that I need to lock you down or that this. It's just like, you know, for me, what it is, is just like as long as we're together, you know, I would appreciate if we were, you know, it's like, I'm not, I'm not sleeping with another man. I, you know, I'd like to know if you feel, if you're doing the same.

Which is all part of the reveal of sharing with somebody, hey, like what tech I did. He was like, I deleted my hand. I'm not going to be sleeping with anybody else. And then I answer back, cool, I'll do the same. Done. Then we dated and we kept dating and we kept dating. So it's totally cool to set your intentions and let somebody know where you stand, but whilst also just getting. Yeah. But I think. And you can find, you know, there are, and one of the biggest things too, and this is another one, you might not like it. But patience is a virtue here. Because coming at it direct and out of the blusomers, can be off putting. But, you know, one, and I saw and I knew she was weighed.

I had one girl, and she did it. And I applauded her for it because I was like, brilliantly executed. Like I saw what she was doing. And instead of that, like, I was on the phone one time and she saw that I had the hinge app, still on my phone. And she's like, so are you still, you know, and it was, it was an organic reason for her to bring it up. And I knew she had been thinking about it on her mind for a while, but she waited until

she found a good organic window to talk about it with me where I didn't feel threatened. I didn't feel put upon. I didn't feel like she was giving me some kind of ultimatum. I didn't feel like it was like, I need to know everything now. It was just, so what's up with that. Right. And you know what I did? Do you know what I did?

I deleted it right there in front of her because I was like, oh, I haven't even, I forgot it was all that. And I did that. And the smile on her face, you could have lit the earth with that. Right. And for the people that don't have that opportunity of like, it's okay to also maybe after you're intimate or whatever to be like, hey, you know, I'm into you and I don't want to date anybody else.

Sometimes you don't always get, like listen, if it naturally comes up, great, have the fucking conversation. And if it doesn't, don't be afraid to share that in the fear of, oh, they're going to run away. They're not going to want me. If I open my mouth, they're not going to like me because, baby, let me just, we're going to end the episode on this. Let me ask you a question, what the fuck are you so afraid to lose? If somebody you just merely expressing interest that you don't want to have sex with other

people, send someone running for the hills, then I would tell you right now, that's a situation happen because you are not expressing yourself clearly of what it is that you want and you are also not pauling their bluff that if they don't do it then you are going to walk away yeah and i mean you know mine was just an example you're right like most people won't get that kind of specific example but you know yours like after intimacy again it's about appropriate environments to bring things up so it's like oh i saw this on your phone i'm curious i'm going to bring it oh we just were physical together. It's like, right, those are appropriate times to, to express those things. Not, oh, hey, I'm coming. First thing I do when I see you, it's like, you're not doing this.

You know what I mean? Because it's, it's a quick, exactly. That was what I really wanted to get at was doing it not to alleviate your own anxiety versus just gain clarity and be on the same page. Yeah. So, and I think with that, that's, yeah, guys, I think for. Yeah, I think for this episode, thank you guys for fucking joining. Thank you for having Joe back. If you guys need anything, I'm going to link it in the show notes. You guys can book a one-on-one with them. You can get your dating profile audited. You can ask them a question. Anything you guys need. And as always, give us five stars if you think it's worth it and believe that it is. Please share with your friends and your family. And thank you guys again so much for joining on this week's episode of Do the Work Podcast.