The Sabrina Zohar Show - 20: LGBTQ dating with Cammie Scott!!

Episode Date: June 2, 2023

On this weeks episode of The Sabrina Zohar Show, we are joined by Cammie Scott! Cammie is a content creator, LGBTQ advocate and podcast host of Staying Up Podcast! This week Sabrina and Cammie go over LGBTQ dating, the toxicity in the community and how to stay true to yourself and navigate it. Want to work with Sabrina? HERE! Stuck After the Podcast? Master Implementation in 8 Weeks with Sabrina's Foundation Course Join the Make It Make Sense: Getting Through a Breakup course HERE! Get Ad-free episodes and 2 Bonus episodes a month HERE! Dont forget to follow Sabrina and The Sabrina Zohar Show on instagram and Sabrina on Tik tok! Video now available on YOUTUBE!  Disclaimer: The Sabrina Zohar Show, formally known as Do The Work, is not affiliated with A.Z & associates LLC in any capacity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of Do the Work podcast. My name is Sabrina Zohar and I am going to be your host for today. Guys, I am so excited to have Cammy Scott here. She is a content creator. She is an LGBTQ advocate. She just got married to her beautiful wife, Taryn. And I am just so, so, so excited to have her here to talk about the LGBTQ community, shed some light on so many questions you guys have asked.

And also just to talk about dating, anxiety and how she's been able to manage her with her very ever-growing career and just learn a little bit more from her. So I'm so, so excited to have you guys on. And let's get to it. I'm so excited to have you. Welcome. Thank you. I'm so excited for this. I mean, I'm just excited to hang out with you, but also excited to talk to the people, answer some gay cues, you know, for everybody who doesn't know, which is my favorite part is how many people is like, you know, so if anybody knows, like, people are like, what are you going to talk about the lesbian community? And I was like, well, I'm not part of it. So I feel like kind of left out. And I said, well, you know, Cammy's, I was like, you know, Cammy's going to be on.

And people freaked out. They're like, oh, my God, her. So for anyone who's not familiar with you, can you give us just a little bit of a history of like who you are? Yeah, for sure. I'm Cammy Scott. I'm a lesbian woman. I used to specifically use gay and queer, but I've tried to take back lesbian. And yeah, I've been creating content for, I don't know how many years it's been since like 2015 if we want to go back to Tumblr days, maybe like 2009, if we really want to deep cut. And yeah, I've kind of just been sharing my story, sharing things that I like when I was feeling kind of alone and didn't see myself represented. So I was just looking to find a community of people that I could relate to. And then in turn, people started to relate to me. And it's just been

really cool to have this little community online. And I can relate to that because that's what started me. I was like, does anybody feel anxiety? I'm like, am I the only person that's suffering? And it's like, no, because misery lives company. No, okay. Exactly. It's true. But what did you see?

Actually, that's a really, I'm glad you brought that up. Like, what was missing that you didn't feel was part of the community that you so badly wanted to start that you cultivated? Because I think that's such a beautiful thing to do. Yeah. I mean, I feel like I feel so old for internet terms. I feel like it's like athletes. Once you're in your 30s, you're like dead to the world. But when I was kind of struggling with my sexuality when I was in middle school and into high school, this was so long ago. So I didn't have really any type of representation. There was a show south of nowhere. And it was the first time I saw women liking other women who were somewhat feminine. And I just thought that that was impossible. I thought I had to cut my hair and only wear baggy clothing and look very much.

masculine presenting. And I was just hoping that I could find other women who like skincare and makeup and wearing dresses so that I could preserve that part of me because it was scary to think, okay, to embrace this very real big part of who I am, I have to let go of other parts of me. So I quickly realized that that was not the pace, but for so long it felt like Ellen DeGeneres was the only lesbian that I could look up to, which didn't work out well. Yeah, you're like, yikes. I mean, I think that's that, no, and it's, it's such a stigma. And I was actually going to ask you, I think one of my questions that I had for you was like,

what are some myths or some stigmas that you're like, God, I just really wanted to debunk that. And I think like you started even there with like, do I have to cut my hair and wear like dickies in order to be seen as a lesbian? But is there anything else that stands out that you were like, I just can't stand this? This is kind of a stupid one, but I've been talking with some of my friends about it recently. So I just got married a couple months ago and I had like fake nails on for the wedding. I wanted my hands to look pretty.

And it has started a debate of like, can lesbians who are not just solely bottoms wear fake nails? And I want to debunk it that if you do it right and get the right nails not too pointy, no like claws. I actually, this may be a little too much TMI,

but I actually think that they hurt. less because natural nails are really sharp. Where if you have a fake nail on, it's thicker. And if it's like rounded and soft edges, there's no pain there. I love this because it's like, what did you learn on your wedding night? And you're like that actually.

That was your takeaway. Yeah. And I just, my friend also had fake nails on that time we were at a bar. And we were like, we got to stop getting hate for having longer nails. Like we are givers, not just receivers.

And you can still do it with nails on. Okay. So this might be like me being close-minded, but I always wondered, I was like, how does this work? Is it like a top and a bottom situation, like in the gay community? Like, can you educate me?

Because I feel like a fucking idiot. Please. You know what? This is fun. I haven't like had to explain lesbian sex to anyone who's just, I mean, people who are like, I'm curious, I'm going to have sex with a woman. What do I do?

But not to somebody who doesn't have sex with women. Completely layman. You know what? Everyone's different, of course, just as I'm sure you have experienced with men. Yeah. But obviously, it's kind of like a little bit more straightforward. Whatever, it's just penis and vagina.

Well, there's... Depends on the guy. You know, some dudes like at the van door. But anyways, yeah, you have two holes that you can really choose from. Three. Okay, anyways. Let's get back to you. Honestly, I would love a lesson in your type of sex.

It's more rare to me. Oh, God. Learn to, you learn to fake it. Oh, no, that's sad. See, that's that's. why you should be with women. And so, you can you convince me then more?

What happens? Yeah. Oh, my God. It's great. There's so much communication. I just feel like women, you know each other more. You're similar.

Your bodies are similar. You kind of like similar things. You're not afraid to be open and honest because you kind of both get it. It's so much more communication, so much more clear. Everyone's different. I think majority,

most women are what you would call a switch. you're both tops, you're both bottoms, you're both giving, receiving. There are people who are pillow princesses who are only going to receive. There are also lesbians who are Touch Me Nots, who don't want touched. So there's a little bit of everything, but I would say the majority from my personal experience and people I've talked to, most people are switched. Yeah. And when did you, so you knew this like your whole life.

You were like, this is it. I love women. or no no yeah like mainly i started dating my first i fell in love with a girl when i was very young i was probably like i'm so bad with time i have no concept of time i was maybe like 13 14 i was very very young and it started as like okay i'm not gay but you're my exception and i'm open to love the thing whoever i don't know if that makes me buy or pan or what but i love you and it doesn't matter what you are. And that was kind of a cop out for me. Like I feel like some people will kind of try to negate people being by being like, oh, that's just a stepping stone. For me being by was a stepping

zone, it was, you're an exception. I don't know what I thought that meant. But I knew. I, like, as soon as I kind of started having feelings for a girl, everything clicked. All of these experiences growing up, even down to like playing with my Barbies and my other friend who also ended up being a lesbian would like, she had a million dolls. She like very wealthy, a ton of Ken dolls. We never touched the Ken dolls. They were like sat in the corner. But yeah, I think like it clicked for me pretty young.

And then watching that show south of nowhere, I was homesick from school one day, saw these two feminine women being in love and was like, that's it. I 100% I relate to these women. And I know. It, like, gave me permission finally lean into who I was. So, yeah, I feel like I've just always kind of known. Wait, have you ever been with a man? I have been with a man once.

Okay. I was like in it. So when I was kind of like dating that girl, we both were kind of trying to suppress it. Like she for a very long time dated other men and other women. It was very toxic. Yeah. Which we're going to get to. Yeah.

But yeah. But yeah, I was with one guy. I was really drunk and I really don't remember it, which is kind of shitty. Honestly, probably for the best too. Exactly. I think so too. Because I was very aware that I like didn't want that already. So yeah.

I sometimes try to put myself in that situation because like my dad owned a gay club for most of my entire life. Really? Yeah, New York. That's amazing. Yeah, he had porn theaters for like years when I before I was born. And then they moved to Florida and had me, he had a, he had a, gay club. And so I would, to me, it was so normalized. Yeah. Going to the club and seeing the girls.

And it was like the, it was drag queen shows. And it was, I mean, it was what a community. So fun. So fucking fun. And it was so freeing. And that's why like such a sexually open home and, you know, it turned me into what I am. But I always thought about like what that must feel like to have to wear that mask of being like, wait, but this doesn't feel right. So that to think of right now, let's say I equate this to if being with a woman was the norm versus now I'd want to be with a man, and how that must feel. Like, were you supported when you came out? Or was it something that you suppressed

because you weren't able to talk about it with your loved ones? You know, I always say I was my own worst enemy and I was the hardest person to come out to because all of the people around me, my family, my friends, generally, it was so easy. I didn't have any issues. My family wasn't particularly religious or anything.

My mom's just kind of like very spiritual, but not any set in stone. I had the most incredible support system, but I took so long to share it with them because I think until you're comfortable with who you are, sharing anything is so scary because you are seeking that validation where when you get to a point where you're so happy with who you are, you're less scared.

Yeah, you don't want to ruin relationships that you care about, but you're so confident and happy with who you are that you're like, take it or leave it. And if you leave it, you're a loss. But that's not how I felt when I've ever. was younger. I was just like, no, it's going to be my loss. You're going to hate me because I hate me. And it's going to be awful. But yeah, it was only hard to come out to myself. I'm the only person that got in my own way. Which I'm curious. I'd love to actually touch more about that of like did you,

so first, stuff for audience, sorry, my hair is a mess. Do you identify more anxious, avoidant? I know I've seen some of your content of your anxiety. Yeah. Like having anxiety. I'd love to know kind of where you fell on that and then perhaps any anything that you, any skills or coping mechanisms or what did you use to cultivate that confidence within yourself to get out of your own way? Because I think we have had a lot of people that have reached out that are

suffering or dealing or not sure how to do that. And so I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. Yeah. I have in hindsight, suffered with anxiety most of my life and didn't really know what it was until I was older. I think even in the recent

few years, I've really started to understand my own mental health better and how to cope with it because it, I didn't realize how much it was getting in the way and affecting me in my relationships and my work and everything. Yeah. Yeah, I think I've had pretty bad anxiety forever and I was just scared. I was so scared about what everyone thought. I think it was easier to put my anxiety on that. Like having a tangible thing when you're suffering from any kind of mental health, it's nice to have something you can throw it on instead of just dealing with it as your mental disorder. It's so stressful to not know the cause of it. And I think I would kind of latch on to relationship sometimes to do that

and seek that comfort because a dating a woman as well, they kind of become your best friend. And it was so much easier for me to have that one person I could put everything into. I could open up about everything. I could trust and be closed off to everybody else. And that's kind of how I coped with my anxiety in general for real. really long time until I finally recognized what it was and worked on myself for myself and by myself. And you can do that in a relationship. I think people get confused of like, you need to take time to figure out who you are and all of that. And sure, yeah, if you can't do that work on your own, but you're always going to be changing and evolving and growing. And if you can't do that

with people around you as well, you're going to always have problems, whether it be your partner, or your friends or your family. So I think me sorting that out in myself and then being able to share that and articulate that with the people around me who I care about so that it didn't affect those relationships was when I started to get my power back

and handling my anxiety and not letting it creep into every little corner of my life. 100%. I think so many people, there is that common misconception of like, I need to be alone to heal. And I'll get that all the time like, you fuck dating, I'm done.

I don't want to do it. And it's like, I hate to break it. to everybody, you will get triggered your entire life because you're human. And even now, I am, you're married. I am in the healthiest relationship I've ever been. And I get triggered constantly of just little things where somebody will, you know, your partner says something and you're like, the fuck did that mean? And it's like, of course, I'm instantly just being like, and so I can imagine two women

having, yeah, oh my God, totally. And which, but I think it's such a great message for people to also hear like, if you have a willing participant and a partner that can support you through it and just be secure by your side. Even if they, like, I wanted to ask you to where Taryn falls, but like even if your partner maybe has more avoidance or is more anxious as well, but if both of you are willing to put the, like, for me, my partner, we call him tech guy. He is very, very avoided by nature.

That's just how he grew up and how he was. And so he's done a lot of work on himself. He's been years of therapy and he's super aware and he's super communicative. and so am I. It's like, but we trigger each other still. Of course. Natural. We're fucking humans.

But where does T. I'm like, how were you guys able to, like when you met her, were you feeling that anxiety? Were you feeling more secure? And like, what did that look like,

I think navigating it through in a new relationship? Because I think that can scare a lot of people too. Totally. And every relationship is different. That's why I think it is powerful to kind of work on those with each other.

Taryn is a very anxious person in really different. ways than I am as well. Like I'm more avoidant. She's more attachment style. Like I really feel like we're almost opposite in that sense. But it's interesting because we have opposite anxieties, we can get each other and be supportive and help each other.

But then when the other one needs to kind of have their shit together to support their good too. So I think she's always been somebody who is so eager to work on herself, which is incredible and really helpful in a partner to know. like you want to better yourself for yourself and for me in our relationship. So it's been like we are both quite anxious, which I think makes that really difficult sometimes. But because we're both really aware and willing to work, it makes it easier. We both shut down so quickly.

We've had to, we've done therapy together before getting married. Like we kind of clash when we fight. It is so bad. We're so bad at fighting. We both hate fighting so much. but like if I'm sharing hey I try to speak up for myself more because in a lot of relationships I would kind of tell myself that I was the problem and that it was stuff I had to get over and then I kind of overcompensated and it was like oversharing it like that bothers me that bothers me

and kind of being a little insane but if I share something that is hurting my feelings that she does or says or whatever she gets really defensive that it's like criticizing her and then I feel unheard. Like that's kind of been our spiral that we try to get off. Yeah. But I think just our anxiety just kind of clash in that moment where I'm like, I'm not being heard and she's like, I'm getting criticized. So that's a mess. But you're like, but that's my newly one and we just got married. But it's such a reality. It's true. It's like, you know, and I think something that people, a lot of people don't realize to is being in a really, it doesn't matter gay, straight, but I don't give a fuck. You're a human dating another human. It doesn't really fucking matter. At the end of the day,

though, communication in a relationship is literally everything. And they hear so often they're like, I can't tell somebody that because they're going to run away. And I'm like, well, then what's going to happen when you guys are actually dealing with issues? Is that person always just, yeah, what are they just going to bolt? They're just, that's it? I'm out. Yeah, it's like you don't just like hide certain parts of you hoping that it's never going to come out. Like, you're right. The only time that I think is acceptable is like you don't have to share traumas and, you know what I mean? It's like, You don't have to share parts of yourself that are just yours to own.

And like I've had to learn, especially being in a very like secure relationship, the difference between my gut and my anxiety. Like what is. Oh my God, yeah. Yeah. You know, it's like what is actually bothering you where you're like, hey, I didn't like that comment versus what's the narrative I'm creating and what's the situation I've just made? It's so hard to differentiate that sometimes though because you're like, I should have listened to my intuition.

It's like, that's not your intuition. that is like all your past trauma and your fears, but this person is not all of those other people. And you're better now too. Oh my God. Yeah. How have you coped with that of like, how do you pick that this is intuition and this is me being a little,

little out there right now? Yeah, a little fucking nuts off my, I'm like, it's in my period? No, it's like it's been two weeks. You're like, oh, shit. God damn it. Yeah, I'm like, I can't use that excuse. So what I've literally been able, like really been able to identify

because I'm so painfully self-aware, it's actually to a fault, where I'm like, I know when I get like upset or annoyed or something. I'm like, I know exactly where it stems from. I'm like, that's because when I was a kid, this used to happen. Versus like I, it's kind of the same processing of the like when, when an action happens or like when tech guy says something, let's say. And I want to shut down. You know, I'll like kind of retreat inwards.

And then I'll stop myself and I start to do like my little thing where I'm like, okay, cool, what does this feel like in my body? Am I feeling it in my body? Or am I feeling it just in my thoughts? because like my gut and intuition is very calm. I don't really feel, I don't feel that in my body and my brain doesn't start to race. When I know it's my anxiety is because there's the narrative plague. I knew he didn't like me. I knew that this person didn't want me.

Oh, here we go again. Another person that's going to leave me. Up, see, he knew who I. Yeah. And so I'm able. You can differentiate between what's the narrative that's playing behind this versus is there an actual threat or is that a stuffed animal that my nervous system is perceiving to be a tiger. Oh, I love that.

that and being able to communicate that through a relationship, like, has been huge. But one thing I have been told, because I do have quite a few LGBTQ community clients that come to me. And I feel like the only difference I have, like, the only question I really have when you're dating as a lesbian is like the texting thing, you know, because it's like in the conventional straight to, you know, straight male and female, it's like, oh, let the guy text you and, you know, don't come off. So it's like, that I think would be the only differentiation point. But from what I've, been told, which I'd like your thoughts on that. From what I've been told, though, the lesbian and the gay community, so I would just say the whole entire thing has been very toxic. And I was curious your

experiences in that because I think there's such a difference between the gay community that's very like immediate. I don't want to settle. I'm just going to go from guy to guy to guy and just get laid versus the female and the lesbians where it's like, we're going to get married and buy a cat after two dates. So I was curious kind of to see your thoughts on really just like that toxic culture and what you've seen. Yeah, I think that those stereotypes can be incredibly real. Like, I've seen it a million times. It happens often. Obviously, not everyone falls into that. But I just think women are typically think in a similar way. Like we romanticize things. We are kind of like wanting to find that perfect love and jumping into it. And as soon as we find that kind of

latching onto that. I think a lot of women will kind of create the person they want and fill in the gaps. And I think that can be really detrimental in a relationship. It's like they're perfect. They're doing all of these amazing things. And it's like, no, they did three things that you liked and you ignored all these other things or you made those seem so much bigger and they filled in this character in your head instead of actually getting to know this person, which is why I think a lot of times like women will move so quickly, jump into that, move in, all that. And then it'll be this massive breakup. Because if you've ever had like a friend breakup, that could be 10 times harder than a

relationship. Now you put those together. Yeah. Because I just think women's bonds together are really important and valuable and beautiful. But when you add in a romantic level to that, it is just can be chaos. It can be mean. We can be kind of harsh with our words. we use our words a lot of times as our weapons.

And I think that's where the toxic traits kind of lie in a female relationship. I was going to say, did you experience that a lot? Or were you lucky to like have pretty secure partners? And obviously with U&T, like, did you guys, what did that courtship look like? And then, yeah, who texts first? How does this work? How does this all happen? You just teach me that because I feel like I'll be a better coach if I know that.

So as soon as you started talking about texting, I was like, what? have how have I handled this in dating and anything? Taryn and I were friends for a really long time, so we didn't have that same form of courtship. But I have always been like, I don't like games. If you want to text one, text them.

If you want to say something, say it. And maybe that's because I've always been flirting and dating women. So it was more acceptable and I didn't have to kind of like play these games. I don't know. Maybe you can't do that when you're talking to a guy. But in my head, I'm like, I don't like the games.

Be yourself. And if yourself isn't right, then screw them. But then I've also seen how to lose a guy in 10 days. And that one girl who's so great is so crazy and messing up and she needs to play it cool. So I don't know. I've never thought about who texts first. Am I texting too much? I'm also the type person who will text you 20 times in a row and then lose my phone for a day and not text you back and then forget for three months.

And they'd be like, hi. And not meaning. it's not personal. So I'm not the right person to ask about the next thing. Unfortunately, I'm very sorry. No, and it's fine. It's fine. I'll find another lesbian to ask.

It's okay. Somebody can write in that's listening and let me know. I mean, it's been a point of contention for me. It doesn't matter the community you're in. But in general with texting, I find anything because you're two women coming together, it's probably exacerbated,

especially if you're two anxious people that are coming together. And we see it's like, yes, there are plenty of avoidant women. Like you even said, I've had some avoidant issues and tendencies. and things. And it's like innately, anxiety, anxious attachment also is avoiding because we're avoiding the abandonment wound. But nonetheless, it's been such a thing now. It's like either there's the people that totally get what I'm saying of like, stop creating this romanticized version of a

relationship via digital. Like there is no tone. You have no clue what this person's trying to say. You are deducing what they're trying to say and you are creating this version. Then you meet them and no wonder they can get away with murder. Because like you said, they exhibit you hold, you take five percent of who you know and you create 95% of who you want them to be. And so for me, I've always been very big on like, can you guys please like limit, spend more time together, get to know each other in person, do things like go out on a, you know, my boyfriend's almost killed me now twice on a hike. And it's like, and what did that do? It brought us closer together. It did. Now I know he's trying to murder me. I would never know that via accident. I would never have known that this man was brought

me to the desert for six hours and put me on a hike and that we almost, it's fine though. It's okay. And the rocks were coming. It's okay. You know, we live and we learn. But I find like I've I've seen that a lot, especially that projection component. And like I had one of my first clients that was a lesbian, she was talking and what a lovely human, you know, clearly had her own shit going on. And she was like, I just don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. I'm so in love with this girl.

And I was like, tell me about her. Yeah, tell me more about this girl. And it was, I'm sitting there and I was like, I'm sorry, did you use the word love to describe this woman? Because I'm like, everything sounds like a fucking nightmare and a lieabbit. like couldn't super inconsistent, really avoided, didn't want to be sexual, was terrified of commitment, didn't want to open up. And I was like, so.

She's in love with the chase. Right. And I was like, so what are you in love with exactly? Her emotional unavailability that now reinstates your core belief that you're not good enough or worthy, so you have to earn somebody's love. And then when you don't, it reaffirms that poor belief. Yeah.

It's just like, I actually need you to tell every lesbian that you ever work. with to put the phone down. Because I have just realized, I'm 32, dated a bit, married now, and I've never thought about how detrimental the over texting is. And in every even situation ship I've had, it's like lots and lots and lots of texting, don't put the phone down. And texting is like this very intimate experience.

You're just one-on-one. They're kind of there in your back pocket all day long. and it is just exacerbating that situation of the romanticizing and turning this person into somebody that they're not and even hyper-focusing on like the big red flags that should make you run are like, oh, but they're, but they like me. They don't want to admit, but they like me.

It's like they're texting you all day. They're not hang out with you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm like, and it's so funny because I had in here, tips for lesbians. So there we have one. Put just anybody.

And like I have a lot of, I have a lot of people I've worked with now that are like, man, I've been taking your advice. and like, you're right. And it's like, okay, the reason I say to put your fucking phone down is none of the advice I even talk about has anything to do with a listening, a response from somebody else. It's about how do you manage your own anxiety? How can you make sure that you are showing up the best version of yourself consistently, building a life outside of dating and creating and cultivating a community and group and people and friends in a life so that when

somebody comes into your life, it's in addition to not instead of. And I find the text stuff so often creates just this entire narrative. And then the danger of what happens is when you what's going to happen. You're texting a lot. What else are you going to talk about? So of course you start to talk about the future and what, you know, how cute. Oh my God, wait, you like to travel here. I like to travel here. Well, wait, what kind of life do you are? And it's like you built up this entire relationship. And then I'll see it where all the people, you know, I went on one date and then they don't want to see me after what happened. It's like they met you. That's what happened. you became real to them.

Yeah, they had to get the image out of their head and actually face the reality and you guys don't match up. No. It's probably great, but you're not right for them. This has like nothing to ever do with who you are as a person, but more to do. And like I've actually learned and it's true

because I've known you for what a couple years now since I moved to L.A. And it's true, it's like, you're not great at texting in the conventional sense, but I never take it personally. I'm not like, oh, she hates me. That's why she's ignoring me. It's like, horrible at it.

And it's like, you know what? You just, I assume I'm like, Some people are just, that's not a priority to them. That's not how they connect to people. And it's like, I've done that. I'll look back and I'm like, I didn't answer this person. Mm-hmm.

I do it all, all the time. All the time. But I just, I do really think that women text more often when women are better at communicating. So then having another woman on the other side of that where you're not like, well, I don't want to text this guy too much. He didn't text me for X amount of time. You're getting pinged right back.

So it's just non-sumption. stop communication. So you may have had one date, which is probably a lot longer than a typical one first date. And then you've texted every second since that dating. Yes. So it's just, yeah, we're a little kooky I'm realizing from this conversation. You're like, bitch, just be crazy. I've always known we women are a different beast. And I totally understand that. And it's like, you know, but then I talk to some of the gays. And it's what I hear is like, none of them want to commit. You know, they're all, and it's like, well, think about it. Let's be realistic here.

You put two women together. Of course they're going to expedite things. You put two guys together. Of course, they're going to be like, yeah, and I'm good. I just want to like enjoy this. Not to say that's what everybody does, but it's not frequent. Not shocking. Yeah.

I always feel really sad for the gay men who want to commit because I think they have such a hard time finding other men who want that as well. I think that could be really difficult, it not turning into an open relationship. or just like getting a little too wild every now and then. And I think that would be incredibly frustrating. Yeah, I don't personally, I mean, it's like as a, as a woman dating men or what was dating men, now not, but as somebody who has been in that community, yeah, I can only imagine exacerbated by your only dating men.

And it's like that and you are one. So I'm sure you're both coming at it with different emotions and feelings. And you're kind of just like, well, how the fuck do I articulate this? How do I communicate? where like you said, women are so much better at communicating. And I think what's super important for anybody listening out there, boundaries, setting boundaries or managing expectations, even like you just did. Like, hey, you know what?

I'm not great at texting. This isn't an indication that I'm not into you or that I don't like you. I don't connect that way, but I'd love to see you and spend some time with you. Yeah. But I think the problem is a lot of times people don't know what they want. So how do you set boundaries and set those expectations when you don't check. check in with yourself. I think people don't do that until they're in their relationship and they're realizing, oh, I do like that. Oh, wait, I don't like that, which is why I think you can really grow in a

relationship. I've always grown my most post relationships being like, wait a minute, let me check back in with myself. These are the things that I just allowed to happen. How did I let my boundaries go? And it's like, well, because you never set them because you didn't know what they were. You didn't actually know what you wanted. You kind of just went with the flow of the relationship, trying to keep it easy, and light and smooth. And you have to check in with yourself. You have to know what do I really want from this person? What value are they adding to my life?

What am I looking for instead of just, I like this person. Let's make it work. 100%. It's like, I don't give a fuck how you feel about them. I care about how you feel with them. It's like, what do they evoke in you? Do they ask you questions?

Do they make you feel seen heard and understood? Do you feel safe talking to them? Do you feel like it's reciprocal? And I think more so often we're so focused on the at, look, do they like me? and what's the perception of me and I take it even a step further. It's like people don't know what they want and people also don't know truly what they need and they think they do.

And it's like, sometimes I'll get this. Well, I need a guy to text me every day otherwise. And it's like, no, you don't need that. You want that. If we're going to talk intrinsically about needs, it's like, no, what might be needed here is you doing that for yourself, you being there to support yourself and you just showing up to satisfy those quote unquote needs that you have. instead of expecting external validation to quell your anxiety and to make you feel better,

it's like, how about you find ways to self-soothe and to take care of yourself? So that way, when you're showing up with people, again, they're in addition to your life, not instead of. 100%. No one person's going to fill every need that you have. Not even friends. Yeah, it's just insane to even imagine that. So it's like, look at that need.

If it is texting every day, why do I feel like I have that need? What is that fulfilling? and can I get it in other ways? Maybe you might date someone who's perfect and they might be a bad text or you're not going to date them. No, they're going to show you that they care for you in other ways.

You're going to find ways around that. Or you're going to realize that you don't need that constant validation. Maybe you were cheated on before and they never text you in the morning and you find out that is what's actually bothering you. It's like you've got to break down the actual thing that you think is your need

and your why and go back. Work backwards to figure out why you actually want that. Because more often than not, even for me, it's like I, before I met my boyfriend now, I was dating the guy that was like on paper, everything, texting you good morning and making the plans and facetiming and being supercommuting, met all my friends, met my family, like probably in hindsight. I'm like, hey, you look on me. Not in the sense. It wasn't like, it wasn't so obvious. It wasn't all at once. Yeah. But it was like, as I think about it, I'm like, yeah, that's a lot for the first like two months.

And everything. And it was like, but then when push came to shove, when my dog passed away, that dude was nowhere to be seen. Like he did not even try to show up for me. I think he came over once after like 10 days of me being like in fucking hell on this earth. And so then when we broke up, when I walked out, when he told me, I'm unsure about you. And I was like, I'm fucking done. I'm not doing this. And so then when I started like, I met my boyfriend three days later.

And I was like, I'm not interested in any of this shit. I'm just going to go out and have fun. And we hooked up. And I left and I was like, guns blazing. I don't give a shit. I never hear from this guy. I don't really care. And as we started to date, it was kind of the same where it was like, he wasn't

texting at all. Like he was not a texter. Maybe every three days I'd get a like, hey, I hope you're having a great day. Going to put my phone down, been staring at screens all day because he works in tech. I'll, you know, super excited to see you this weekend. And then I'd be like, ah. And so then I had to ask myself, yeah, I was like, where the fuck is this? So then I had to ask myself, okay, let me sit in the discomfort and start questioning where is this coming from. And I was like, oh, him texting me every day is, it's a false sense of intimacy because what it made me think was, oh, okay, well, that just means I'm not going to be abandoned. That means I'm being chosen. So instead, I had to say, okay, cool. So I might not need that. I might just want it. But now, but it's true, this person's showing up for me in so many

other ways. He's calling me instead of texting. He's planning dates very consistently. He is being super communicative, open, vulnerable, honest, all of those things. And that was that aha moment of like, you know, what you thought you needed. You didn't. I had to supply that for myself and learn how to be with just me and accept I'm building a life outside. And I found purpose. outside of just a relationship. Yeah. And it's funny, the thing that you thought you wanted with the texting every day,

so you didn't feel abandoned. You were, as soon as there was any form of conflict, it's easy to love bomb someone and tell them everything they want to hear over a text. That's so simple. But when there was actually an issue going on in your life where they had the opportunity to step up and be supportive and show you true love,

they weren't there. It was your fear did come true, even though they were doing the thing you thought you wanted. 100%. And that was the, that come to Jesus moment of like, oh shit. And so I'm sure I know that a lot of the stuff that we even talked about here, it's like gay, straight, lesbian, it doesn't matter. Like I said, it's two people coming together. And I'll have that where girls will be like, you don't know, you're not in the

lesbian community. I'm like, just because it's happening, just because that's the norm doesn't mean it's still secure or healthy. Yeah. I think if anything, the only difference that you need to keep in mind is that the other person may be mirroring them and doing the exact same thing. So it's just, you might see something that in any other relationship would be a red flag, but when you're both having the red flag, I'm both waving it. Green, baby. I love that you're like two red flags.

So what, do you have any, I know you kind of started it on it, but what tips do you have for either maybe anybody that is contemplating coming out or that is already out is in the, one woman specifically asked me any tips for lesbians. And I was like, I know just the person. So I'd love to know if you have any tips for lesbians or anybody that's coming out or unsure, just anything, whatever resonates with you. Yeah, I think with coming out, it is so powerful to have some form of a community. It doesn't have to be your family or your friends if you're scared to come out to them. But you don't have to do this alone.

I think doing anything alone, mental health, anything, it feels so much bigger and scarier and you put more weight on it. find someone you can talk to, whether you join a group, an organization, a sports team, do something where you have people that you can share these with and talk to them through it because you're going to find so many commonalities. People have gone through so much and you'll see them living their happy, beautiful life and it's going to give you so much courage. So yeah, I just don't do these things alone. You don't have to. We need human connections and it's really powerful. I love that. Thank you for encouraging that because I'm a big proponent of like find your people you know, put yourself and interject yourself into things that you love.

And then also being cognizant of like test them and then best. Don't dump everything onto people because you don't know who these people are. And if you tell them something very dark or secretive, it could, but finding people that you feel safe. Yeah, it's like you don't fucking know who they more. But finding someone that you feel safe with or even like a counselor, I'm sure there are communities and things of other people out there that are struggling as well. But for anybody, I guess, what are your tips then if you are in the lesbian community

dating right now? And I know obviously you and T and had a different kind of court. because you guys knew each other, but you have dated. It's not like you tip one, marry your best friend. There you go. Okay, done. So thanks so much, Cammy. It was great to have you.

I know. I actually feel like I have no good dating advice. I feel like I was in like long-term relationship, long-term relationship, long-term relationship. But honestly, figure out who you are, figure out, be good with yourself. Get right with yourself first. You are so wonderful, all on your own. No one's going to complete.

no one's going to fix all of your problems. It's just going to continue from a relationship to relationship. You're wonderful on your own. But work you that you know out. Go to therapy. Understand your triggers so you're not blaming them on every person that you date. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe apps.

I've never done them. You've never done the apps? Never done the apps. I mean, I for a very brief time downloaded a few apps and like went on them, but then started dating someone. Of course. Yeah, I've never went on, no dates from any of the apps. Anyone I've ever dated I've like met through people I knew.

I know. I don't know. That's the I'm from the different generation. Like I moved to New York when I was not. I just turned 19 and OKCupid had just come out. Oh my God, beautiful. Well, that we date myself really quick. And yeah, it was, I mean, fucking 14 years ago, which is crazy to me.

But I was kind of bred into the digital age. So I saw Tinder come out. I saw Bumble. I saw Hinge. I saw all of them. Same. Same. I was just in relationship. Yeah.

I was, and I remember when the apps first came out, man, was it a good time? Woo! It was a good. It was the glory days. Those were, God damn it, were they the glory days? Because it was just a bunch of attractive people being like, wait, I now can just meet somebody here. Whereas it was, and it was a lot of people, I mean, I don't know how many relationships

were coming out of it at that time, but it was a lot of people just exploring. But you're very lucky that you dodged that bullet. You've saved yourself immense amount of therapy. I don't feel like I missed anything with that one. You didn't. And I don't know what it's like on the women dating women's side. But I go on my friends all the time. Yeah. I swipe for them.

That's not great. Great. Where is everybody? What do you hear? What do you hear more so? Like from your friends that are dating in that community, what are you hearing their struggles? Like, what are you hearing that they're? Everyone knows everyone.

You can't. Our community is small. And I think that's really frustrating. Like, I have so many friends who have. dated friends, exes, bestie here, there, every which way. And it's kind of a bummer. Like it's so normal in our community.

I feel like it should not. It's sometimes really disrespectful. There's like certain people who should never date, but they do. And we all kind of go, well, there's three people that they can date. So they're going to have to. Yeah, there's so much overlap in the queer community.

It's, you can't get away from it. Everyone knows everyone. everyone's in each other's business. Yeah. It's pretty rough. So I also very, this is, not to go on a tangent, I have this theory that a lot of queer relationships

are very immature at a later age because a lot of us came out later. So it's almost like we are starting our dating career, career, I don't know what to call it. Yeah. Our dating lives later in life. So you have kind of that's the normal things that you get out of your system in high school

in college and the toxic traits. We have in like our. mid to late 20s. Yeah. But I just think we're a little, a little slower to do. I mean, not slower.

We move in. We, you all, but to do it right. You're like, we're slower. Not in that way. But it's, and you know I noticed who is also a community

that overlaps in, specifically like the doctors. Because it's kind of the same where it's like they're in school for years. And then it's like by the time, I know so many doctors in their mid-40s that are such playboy fuck boys like Peter Pan's that have not grown up at all.

I'm like, oh, that's because you spent like 15 years in school. And then now with and you had no time yet. Like I dated a doctor when I was in college. And I mean, I saw the guy like once a month. Like he was so busy with like a lawyer kind of same thing. But that's what I noticed in that community where it's like a bit of an arrested development. Where by the time they experience and like, I don't know for me too, I didn't really, I didn't get my shit together until my major heartbreak at 28.

Yeah. This all has been. You need a good heartbreak. It builds character. Oh boy. They're so valuable. They suck. They suck.

It feels like death, but they're so valuable. It was, and it was with a narcissist, and it was the rock bottom that I needed to really, like, fucking get my shit together and evolve. And I will, I'm so grateful for it. So grateful. I'm sure you can look back on your worst relationships and you're like, I wouldn't be where I'm at now, happily married, if it wasn't for all of those to teach me what I didn't want. Yeah, completely.

Oh, Kimmy, what a fun conversation. I'm so glad I could have you. Let's talk forever. I know. And I'm like, let's talk forever. But at the same time, let's wrap it up. I am so, so glad that everybody could meet you and find you. And I'm going to link all in the show notes of where they can find you.

But you let us know, where can people find you on social? All over social is just Cammy Scott, just my name. That's easy. And then my wife, Taryn and I have a podcast as well staying up with Cammy and Taryn. Cute. Okay, I'll link that. I'll link everything in the show notes. Just email me all those or text me those links.

Thanks. And yeah, I'm so excited. Thank you again so much for joining. Thank you. I have a drive. I'm so excited to listen to other episodes of your podcast. I was listening earlier. And it is just so fun. I'm so excited. Thanks, man. Well, you're going to be episode seven. No, not 17. I don't know what number it is going to be because I can't do math right now, but it's okay. You'll be out soon. It is. You're going to be our Pride Month because I really wanted to start it off with a bang. So let's go. Let's go. Thank you again so much for being on. And everybody go fucking follow Cammy.