The Sabrina Zohar Show - 204: Stop Trying to Be Picked. Start Picking Yourself. (Live Coaching)

Episode Date: May 15, 2026

In the first ever live coaching session of The Sabrina Zohar Show, Sabrina sits down with brand ambassador and content creator Judit Moreno for an unfiltered conversation about anxious attachment, the father wound, and why so many of us keep dating emotionally unavailable men. They unpack how childhood shapes adult relationship patterns, what love bombing does to your nervous system, and why self-abandonment can feel like home when chaos was your blueprint for love. If you have ever wondered why you keep attracting the same partner in different bodies, spiraled in anxious attachment dating cycles, or felt like you are "too much" in relationships, this episode is for you. Sabrina walks Judit through real-time inner child work, reparenting, and the powerful mindset shift from wanting to be picked to actually choosing yourself. A must listen for anyone working on attachment theory, healing childhood trauma, and breaking toxic dating patterns for good. Pre-order Sabrina's book coming out October 2026,⁠ "Why Am I Like This?"⁠ If you’re ready to slow down, trust your instincts, and break your old dating patterns, the Healthy Relationship Foundations Course walks you through it step-by-step  ⁠HERE!⁠ If you’re serious about changing your dating patterns instead of repeating them, the Art of Going Slow course helps you unlearn urgency, regulate your nervous system, and build real connection without rushing, chasing, or abandoning yourself ⁠HERE!⁠ Get Ad free ⁠HERE!⁠  Watch on Spotify. Spotify subscribers get fewer ads on my video. Want to work with Sabrina? ⁠HERE!⁠  Get merch for The Sabrina Zohar Show ⁠HERE!⁠  Don't forget to follow ⁠Sabrina⁠ and ⁠The Sabrina Zohar Show⁠ on Instagram and ⁠Sabrina ⁠on TikTok! Video now available on ⁠YOUTUBE!⁠ Please support our sponsors! Go to Quince.com/SABRINA for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too. Machine Washable Rugs, Made Better. For a limited time only, our listeners get 10% off + free shipping at tumbleliving.com/SABRINA #Tumble #ad ============================= Chapters: 00:00 First Live Coaching Session 05:15 Anxious Attachment & Father Wound 10:36 When Anxiety Takes Over Your Body 14:47 Be Picked vs. Picking Yourself 19:30 Toxic Love, Gaslighting & Cheating 24:38 Normalizing Chaos in Childhood 29:39 Why Chaos Feels Like Love 35:27 Who Are You Without Struggle? 41:08 Loving the Parts You Hate 46:13 Shame, Guilt & Reparenting Disclaimer: The Sabrina Zohar Show, formerly known as Do The Work, is not affiliated with A.Z & associates LLC in any capacity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why doesn't this person want to be with me? What is wrong with me? Why am I like this? Am I just doomed to fucking repeat the same issues over and over and over again and never actually get through it? A question I think a lot of us ask and something that I think most of us get stuck on is, where did I learn this from? How old do I feel? And man, will I ever be able to break this? And today, we're going to do just that. Hello, hello, hello! And welcome to another episode of the Sabrina Zohar Show. My name is Sabrina Zohar and I am your host. Hello, friends. Welcome back to a very, very special episode. is our first live coaching episode. I'm so excited. I have a really good friend of mine. Judith is here

and we are going to have a really, really beautiful conversation where we get into the nits and crannies and really start to understand it's not just one parent, but maybe it's a whole slew of an army as a kid that taught us all of these things that we just, frankly speaking, want to fucking let go of. And I'm so excited. Guys, thank you as always for being here. Please don't forget to rate and review the show. If you need anything, you can work one-on-one, ask a question, join one of the courses that we have, the Art of Going Slow or the Healthy Dating foundation course. Everything is going to be at the link in show notes or sabrinazohar.com. Don't forget to follow along on the socials at the Sabrina Zohar show on Instagram,

Sabrina underscore Zohar on TikTok. And guys, thank you for being here. I know that, you know, if you're new, I curse a lot. I speak really fast. I'm really sharp. You could slow the speed down. You could do ad free. You can choose your own adventure. Or you could just be here. And I'm so grateful for that. And if it doesn't work for you, that's okay. If this is your last show, don't worry about it. But we are building a really strong community of feeling safe and feeling supported in the space that we're in. So I just ask for the same kindness that we give back. And please don't forget to show love, share it with a friend. And thank you for being here. Thank you so much for building the community with me. So without further ado,

babes, let's get right the fuck on into it, shall we? Hi, Judith. Hi, love. I'm so excited. I'm nervous. I'm scared. I'm all the things. But I am so excited and stoked to have you. Welcome to the Sabrina Zoharsha. Thank you so much. It's my pleasure to be here. I have followed you for so long. And the fact that I'm here, I'm like, I know. Well, when we became friends and then we were like, wait. Because like the number one thing we've been requested is please do a live coaching session. And I know that's wild because I'm so used to being private with that. And so we're opening it up today, my friends.

And today you guys are going to get the meat and potatoes. And so I have my iPad. I take notes when I do sessions. So if you guys just see me jotting down things, don't be surprised. But Ms. Juden, before we get started, could you maybe just share a little bit about who you are, what you do, just so that the audience can feel a little bit more welcomed with you. Sure. So I'm from Barcelona, Spain.

Barcelona? Barcelona? My name is Jide Moreno. And I am a brand ambassador and content creator. Basically, everything that I do is based in fitness and wellness. So, yeah, I've been in the U.S. now for 10 years. I moved here when I was 23. And I'm turning 34 in November.

So it's been a ride, girl. What have you seen as the biggest difference between Barcelona and the States specifically? And especially in dating, I'm curious. Oh, a loaded question. I think Spanish culture in general tends to be a little more warm. We are more welcoming, in a sense. I'm not saying everybody, you know, like, of course there's exceptions. But I feel like that was probably the shocking part for me.

Yeah, like I had to like kind of keep myself more together when I moved here. I know it's when people will write in and they're like, I met someone who's Spanish and they keep saying love and baby and all this. And I'm like, I get it. And then people argue with me. They're like, but that's the culture. Like, yeah, but that doesn't mean that like we're used to that. I was like, you might be used to that. But it's okay to say I'm not. And I think that that's like a big jarring difference. Yeah, definitely. The amount of times I have been called intense. It's like quite insane. When you were in New York, no. Was it was it more so here? Actually, it was more in L.A., which I thought it was going to be the opposite for some reason. But no, I feel like in New York people understood me better, and I kind of like, I like fit better there. Yeah. Which at first I thought it was going to be the complete opposite, because there's so many Spaniards here that, you know, I was like, I think I'm going to fit more in L.A. Nope. I found that I was talking to my therapist yesterday about it, where I was like, man, she said, do you feel like you're too much and speak too fast?

And I said, no, actually, thanks to the people that review that, that tell me I do. And I said, that's when I started learning about it. I was like, it wasn't until I moved to L.A. where people kept talking about my speed of voice. And I was like, I've been in New York for 12 years. No one fucking said anything. Or when I started creating fucking content publicly with people, everybody telling me their fucking opinion of things, that I started to realize like, oh, okay, and then I'm different, right?

Different doesn't mean bad, but I just had to come to the realization, like, you don't fit in everywhere. And so that's for another day. But, okay, I usually start anytime I even have a client, anytime I even have a session, usually what I start with is why are we here? What brought us here today? Now, I know that you and I are a little different, but I wanted to just be able to kind of notate and jot down. What are you starting to notice in your dating life? What are something, whether it be a problem that you're facing, what are you starting to notice that maybe we could start to identify some patterns? Oh, attachment.

That's definitely one. a lot of anxiety attachment for sure. I will say it has to do with my dad for 1,000%, which is things, these kind of things I'm noticing now that I'm an adult and after like obviously going to therapy. But at first it was very like unknown and very confusing for me because I was like, why am I so different? Like why am I so weird?

Like why am I like this? And why always like men that I date are telling me that I'm like, too much, right? And I was kind of punishing myself for that. I was like, why am I so strange? Like, what's, what's wrong with me? But I see it's so different now. Could you share a little bit more? I'm curious. One, because you said attachment and anxiety, what did that look like for you while you were dating? How did that manifest? When someone wouldn't text me in a period of time, my brain were spiral in a way where I will be like, oh my God, this person doesn't like me anymore. Oh my God, this person doesn't want to be with me anymore.

Like, why did I do? Like, I always thought I was doing something wrong, even though nothing was happening. And maybe that person was totally fine with me. It was not, you know, but my brain would just go everywhere and create all these different scenarios where I was like, wow, there's, I have to do something about this. Like, this is an issue for me. Yeah, and I would like not be able to eat, not be able to sleep, not be able to go to work, not be able to do my regular things because of my brain going a thousand miles per hour. Disregulated.

And it's hard. Hard is an understanding. But I am curious because obviously like I think most of the people listening right now can relate of like feeling like you're too much, feeling like you're not enough, feeling like there's something wrong with you, like fundamentally flawed. That was at least my narrative. But when you started to notice that and you started to see the behavior, what did that look like in dating for you? Like, okay, so you were spiraling, but then how were you showing up with the people that you were dating and what were you starting? What were you dating? Were you dating emotionally unavailable?

Were you dating the people that were playing games? Were you dating people that were honest that you weren't into? Like, what did that look like for you? Mostly unavailable, emotional, not available, for sure. 1,000 percent. And people that would like probably say one thing but do the exact opposite of what they were saying. Like they love bombing, you know, at first, oh my God, they like you so much. They really want to be with you.

They give you all their time. And then all of a sudden they start being busy or not having that much time for you. Or like, oh, my God, I was busy. That's why I didn't text you in six hours. And I was like, okay. So, you know, is it me? Is it the person I'm seeing? Like, who is it?

Right. myself all of the time. I don't want to call it playing the victim, but in a sense, yes, I was kind of playing the victim because I was the only one that had the power to get out of that situation if I didn't like it. Right. You know? Those are the choices that we're making. But, okay, so you started therapy. And you said, you mentioned it was your dad.

Could you share a little bit more about, like, what did that look like? What was your childhood? What was your upbringing? What was your relationship to him? Yes. So my dad was abuse. towards my mom since I was a kid, even before I was born. So this was a very big thing for me because, of course, the first people that you see

that you have contact with are your parents, right? And the way they love each other, the way they love you, is the first thing that you see, right? My dad was always very distant where, like, he will give me a little bit of time, but I always felt like I had to be like, hello, I'm here, love me. why don't you pay attention to me? Why don't you play with me? He was always like, don't bother me.

I'm tired. Don't bother me. I just got out of work. Don't bother me. I'm watching TV. So to me, I was always trying to get his attention in any way, whatever it was. So I realized as a kid that he was not there for me in that sense. And also like the arguments that he had with my mom constantly and all of that were carrying like this huge anxiety inside me.

and it was very hard as a kid because I saw other friends of mine having this great relationship with, you know, their dad and like going to play and all of these things. And I was like, why not me? Right. So, yeah, from there, I feel like every time that I now think about the kind of man that I attracted, it was always men that kind of acted like my dad. where I always had to be like, I'm here. Do you see me? And I didn't notice until, of course, started therapy where they were like, do you see like any similar, you know, stuff in between that? And I was like, oh my gosh, yes, totally, which is insane.

And I remember also asking you stuff at a certain point when I was like, I think I'm losing it. Yeah, when you were like obsessive over a half ugly medium guy that was just like so not so out of your life. league, it was like palpable that this guy couldn't even hold a conversation, but yet you wanted him to pick you. Yep. Totally got that. I'm curious, when those moments happen and you start to feel like I really want them to choose me, I really want them to pick me, were you feeling that in your body or was it mostly

conscious in your head? Oh, I was feeling it in my body as well. Where are you feeling it? Mostly like my anxiety and like my, it's like a nut that I felt in my, my stomach. where like even eating or anything like that will become impossible. I wouldn't be hungry. I wouldn't be wanting to like go out with my friends or like even go to work or even drive to like go on a hike, which are things that I normally love doing.

I was not able to do regular things. It robs you of your life at that point. This episode is sponsored by Quince. So for me, Quince is my go-to. I love that they have fabrics that feel elevated. The fits are flattering. and everything just works without me having to really overthink it. But for Mother's Day, I got my mom one of their cashmere sweaters in red.

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Now available in Canada, too. That's QI-N-C-E-com slash Sabrina for free shipping. free shipping and 365 day returns. Again, quince.com slash Sabrina. Okay, so you've done so much work on yourself. Like, it's very clear that you've understood and everything. Obviously, prior to doing the work, you started to notice that the similarities were like, I keep dating the same type of person as person's making me feel the same that I felt with my dad, that, that, that, that, that, that, right? I think it's a narrative. A lot of us understand. But now, right, you know all of that. How has your dating life been going? Honestly, lately, I have been keeping it to myself.

a lot. This is a perfect place for us to keep it to yourself. Yeah, right. I have been a little bit more like, you know, I'm just going to focus on myself for a little bit. I think that the way that I approach things now is very different because I look for different things. Before I wanted to be picked and now I want to pick, which I think it's a little different. That's very different. A little different. Yeah, now I'm more like, I want to be with someone that really teaches me something and that really wants to share things with me. I don't want to be with someone that I have to literally chase all the time.

Or be like, oh my God, yeah, what are you doing today? Like, I felt like in the past I always was like me, like making the plants. I was making the plants by myself, literally. And then the person will probably take like two days to even tell me if they actually wanted to hang out or if they were free or whatever. And now it's like, no, they're supposed to be the ones that ask really, you know, that text me and tell me, hey, do you want to hang out? At least at first, right? Like, it's got to be a little bit push and pull, pull and push. Push and pull. Well, it's reciprocal, right? It's like a tennis match. You serve the ball. They serve the ball.

Like, I want to hang out. You want to hang out. It feels like you both are active. Exactly. And I just, I just feel like at this moment, I just want to focus on me. And like the things that I want to do, the things that I don't want to do. I'm not like, I wouldn't say I'm actively looking for somebody. If it happens, it happens. But I'm fine by myself for now. Okay. And it's interesting because you and I, we have a mutual friend and I've, a friend is such a loose term. He's not my friend. He might be your friend. I've spoken about him on the show, obviously, in private. Like, I've never, ever give away anybody's identity because, you know, you act like a dick. I don't need to fucking promote that out in the public. But I remember just every time, it's funny, I would see you got,

I would see him talking to you at the gym. And in my head, I would always be like, oh, does he like that more? And I remember just sitting there abandoning. And that's before I knew you. That was before you and I had ever even connected. I didn't even know your name. I just knew that you were the pretty girl at the gym. I mean, it was a, it's a gym that there was a lot of pretty people.

But I just remember sitting there. And instead of sitting going, wow, okay, this person's not showing up in the ways that I need. This doesn't work for me. I would try to understand maybe he likes this more. Okay, maybe they want someone that's more active. Maybe they like somebody that's more this. maybe they like this, maybe they like that, and self-abandoning to a point where that just felt like home, right? Everything was, let me figure out why they do this and why do they do that

instead of sitting and saying, but does that work for me? And when I made that shift, holy fuck, everything started to change. But my next kind of question goes to you, okay, so you're not dating right now. You're taking the time for you. I'm curious. Did that come, and it could be a yes And did that come from a place of empowerment or did that come from a place of wounding of, I'm not meeting anybody that I like right now, so I'm just going to be alone? Or was it, hey, I'm actually realizing that I don't know that I want a relationship in that capacity or whatever. Like, what prompted you? What led you to say, I'm going to take some time alone? It's a beautiful place to be, but I'm curious what brought you there. Honestly, my last relationship was so toxic that I will say it comes

from a empowerment where I was like, you know what, I need to heal myself. I need to be alone for a little bit. And I honestly feel so at peace right now that I don't want to change that unless it's for someone that really deserves to come in my life. Can we talk more about the toxic relationship that you had? Because obviously that led us to where we are, but I think a lot of people could probably learn where you were at one point. And Lord knows I've had my feelings. I've had my fair share of toxic relationships. It's funny. You know, you watch the shows and you see those, especially the toxic ones. We keep going back to each other. And then they leave. We keep, I never had the keep going back to each other. I had the, you're not healthy for me and I'm self-abandoning

to try to keep you. But I think I was so anxious that they just like weren't interested in me or, you know, my early, early 20s, fine. They just wanted to fuck. But can you share a little bit more about your toxic relationship? Because, I mean, even for me, like, I think it's interesting to learn patterns. And I'm now, even as we're talking, I'm like, this is becoming less of a coaching session and more of a learning session because you have done so much work that I'm still intrigued to see what's left. So could you share a little bit more about what that toxic looked like? Of course. Where should I start? Okay, so I met this person through mutual friends, which I thought, great, you know, my friends kind of know this guy, so he might be actually good. Like, you know, they were all like, oh yeah, we've seen him before. He's such a

sweet person. I was like, great, so okay. So he asked me to hang out. And I was like, sure, we hang out. Everything was fine. Like he seemed complete normal person, right? Like at first, I feel like everybody seems normal, but whatever. And then little by little, I started to like have this like anxious feeling in my stomach. And I didn't know exactly what I was getting that feeling for or what it was what it was coming. from, right? And he was very affectionate and very sweet until he wasn't. So he started to like lie about everything and anything that you can imagine. But at the same time, gaslighting and making me think that I was crazy and making things up.

Literally, this story is crazy because he used to, he used to literally just make up arguments, just wake up in the morning and try to find something to argue about. So he could leave the house and for me to after find out he was cheating. So he set you up. Yeah. So we dated, it wasn't a long relationship. It was a year in a couple of.

of months, he started cheating on me on month three. Okay. And you had no idea. Nope. So he's just good at hiding it. Yep. And also, well, and I would imagine because if you had the insecurities and you were feeling that you're too much, then him gaslighting you, you're like, oh, maybe I am.

And you start to question your own reality. Correct. I remember asking him one time, hey, are you cheating on me? Because if you are, I will much rather for you to tell me. Like, no, are you crazy? I will never do that to you. How can you think that about me? That was like his answer.

And I was like, you know, maybe it's me because I have so many insecurities and I'm like such a, yeah, insecure person and all of that that maybe it's me. It's got to be me, right? No, it was not me. I'm curious, before we even go on with the story, that part of you, the one that was saying

maybe it's me. Whose voice is that? Yeah, you touch open over there. Of course. How old was that? How old was that voice? I think it probably was like a very young, Judith in there. And what do you think for her to say it was me? How do you think she was protecting you by doing that?

I think probably it had to do with, again, my dad. Probably the times where, like, you know, he was being mean to my mother. And I was like, well, maybe it's because of me. maybe I am the one that has something to do with this, you know? So, yeah, now that you say that, it could have actually come from there. And also, too, we have to remember even, yeah, your dad impacted you in that way, but what did your mom do? Right? How did your mom console you?

Did your mom tell you, hey, it's dad, it's not you. You didn't do anything. It's like, or, you know, because we so focused sometimes on one parent, but like, what was the other parent? What was your mom's role in this whole thing? It's not that anything is her fault, but how did she show up for you? My mom was very overprotective of me, which led to probably her trying to make me feel like the situation was not there in a sense. Like she was trying to make it seem like, no, but, you know, this is happening now, but everything's fine. Like after this, we'll be fine.

Everything's okay. But it was not okay. No. It keeps repeating for years and years to the point where I was like, well, you know, it's just another day. at home. Like if there was an argument and my dad was like literally throwing plates on the, it was just another day. It's a Tuesday. Yeah, exactly.

When it became normal for me to be seeing them yelling at each other or for me seeing my dad pushing my mom. Like for me, it was like, it's just another day at home. Well, you know what's interesting because we focus so heavily on the one, right? Your dad taught you to be with people that dismiss you

and that, you know, they don't have space for you, but your mom taught you not to trust yourself. because then when her voice comes in of like, maybe I'm making this up, right? That's the little who was taught that. Because your little was taught, you're not seeing this correctly. This is normal. This is love. Don't worry about it.

Because why? As a kid, you couldn't comprehend anything differently. What were you going to do? Pack your bags and leave. But I think it's interesting that that little voice is trying to protect you by saying maybe it's you and maybe you made something up. Maybe it's all of this. But I would still ask the same question, how do you think by giving you that voice?

what do you think that role was protecting you? How? Because I have it in my head, but I'm curious to see if it connects. How do I think the voice was protecting me? Probably like, I think maybe like, oh, this is okay. This is normalizing. And I also think because if you can say it's you, then there's the perception of control, right?

If it's me and it's my fault, well, then if I just change, then this won't keep happening. And as a kid, especially when that's what you see, right? It's not that your mom did anything wrong to hurt you. She didn't do that to be like, oh, I hope that this ruins her life. But in her mind, it was maybe if I just don't stress her out and don't tell and just it's fine. Everything's okay. Go back to your room.

We're going to be okay. You also won't worry about your mom. You wouldn't have to become the parentified child that has to worry about mom and dad and you because who's taking care of you. Who's taking care of Judith if both of the parents are not able to take care of you? And so I also could totally see how then you would date somebody that would discredit you, that would put you dead. that wouldn't be there. And then why did your little do that? Because she sees, if I change,

maybe I can get them to change. Because if it's always my fault, well, then I'm the one that's in control of that. That's so accurate, actually, because now you're saying it. And that's true. I was always trying to be, like, I was always trying to have control over everything.

Because then it feels like it's more, like I feel secure. I was to say what is control give you of safety. Yeah, exactly. I feel safe. Like, okay, this is, I can control it. So I can change how I am. and maybe this person will accept me if I changed and I'm like more, I don't know, because I had no idea what he actually wanted.

What if he even wanted me, right? But it made me feel, is exactly what you said. It makes me feel in control to a certain degree. So yeah, I totally agree with what you just said. That's insane. I've never thought about it that way, though. I'm curious, dude, did your dad treat on your mom? I don't know.

Yeah, you did not 100%. My dad was also doing drugs and drinking. And let me just also say, like, he's never not taking care of me financially. I think that's also, that's a very, like my dad's the same. They look at it as, well, if I took care of you financially, then I took care of you. I'm the parent. And so sure, that gives an element, but then that's also still conditional. Because as a kid, you learn, oh, okay, well, I have to do well, I have to behave in

the way that you want for me to be taking care of. Thanks for paying for everything. But could that go away? What about the parent? What about the? Because a child, your fatta, but. brain, right? You're seven years old. Doesn't understand, oh, don't worry, you have a roof over your head. You're fine. As an adult,

we're like, who, thank God, I could pay rent. But as a child, it wouldn't shock me then that all of this, like, especially we were saying, I'm so anxious, I can't sit still. Because also why? Like, did you ever find yourself fantasizing a lot? Yes. In relationship? Yes. Because look at the household you had. Fantasizing kept you safe. Fantasizing is how you could escape the reality of maybe one day this is going to happen. And so then, of course, when we're dealing with, you're dealing with toxic. What does toxic mean? This is my dad.

So then one day it will get better because if I change and I fix and I make them happy, then I'll have the life that I want. Because that's what we believe. Now I'm curious. That voice, do you think, does she still come out?

We'll get back to the toxic story, but let's stay here for a second. Does that voice still come out? Sometimes. And what do you think if she were sitting here right next to us, cute little Judith, and she was looking at you saying,

it's all my fault and everything's my fault and I fuck up and everything I do right, whatever, whatever, narrative is, what do you think she would need to hear? There's no right or wrong answer. Oh, she will definitely need to hear. No, that's not true. You didn't do anything wrong. Okay. You just didn't have what you needed there for you. Valid. Now let me ask you a question. If you walked in and I said, how are you feeling and you said, I feel like everything's my fault and I don't know and I said, you're fine. It's not your fault. You didn't do anything. Would you feel supported in that way? Or would you feel dismissed? I might feel hurt, but not really understood.

Right? Not heard. So then maybe what your little needs to hear is, I am so sorry that I did to you what dad did. Because every time you self-abandoned to try to keep someone. Every time you go out of, every time you externally leave to keep someone in your life, you are doing to that little what other people did. Because when they say, I'm too much, what you're saying is you're right? And so maybe she needs to hear, I'm so fucking sorry. And I never meant to hurt you intentionally. But that doesn't mean anything because you got hurt. And so what do you need for me? And now hearing that, right, even just saying that, Like, how does that feel? It feels so good. Right? It feels like I'm supported and actually heard. So if I can ask her, what would she need for her to retire that narrative? And maybe bring a new one, right? What would she need from me or you or us to believe that she is actually worthy and deserving of more?

Wow, that's a very hard question. I got some ideas, but I'm curious what comes up for you. I think she will need to get strong in a way of, like, try. trusting herself and believing in herself because she's stronger than she thinks for sure, as well as maybe like be more secure. So I think those are all beautiful ideas, but they're too ethereal, right? What does that look like tangibly? Does that look tangibly like you stop speaking to yourself like an asshole?

Does that look tangibly like you saying, given everything I've been through, it makes total sense that I'd feel this way? Does that look like you're taking a breath before reacting and so that you could actually respond? Like, what is she, what is she craving? Does she crave being authentically herself without feeling judged? So then that means that we need to give her the space to do that. And so I'd be curious, what does it look like for her to show up more securely?

Because if she's not secure in who she is, she isn't trusted, she thinks that she's the problem, then what does she actually need from you as the adult now in the room? And maybe that just means space to be herself. But do you actually allow her to be authentically her, or do you still judge and shame her for at one point causing issues? I do still kind of judge her. at times in a sense of like, oh, maybe I could have done something different there or I should have done something different here. But of course it's what you said, right?

Like at the end of the day, I was just a kid. Yeah. You were just a kid and I'd be curious. When you say that, I was just a kid, there's nothing I could have done. Does she believe you? No. Right. Because sometimes we gaslight ourselves, right?

Especially when we're like, no, I'm fine, right? 99.9% of the people that I ask, what do you think they need to? I'm fine, you're okay, you're going to be okay. But if that were the case, then all of us would be fine right now because if we genuinely believed that, but your nervous system was wired around chaos is love. I have to earn it and that's how I'm going to be safe. And so I'm curious now if she sees something healthy, would she be able to receive that in the way because does she actually believe she's deserving of it?

Honestly, I think so. It might feel weird. It might make her question a lot of things. like, oh, is this how I'm supposed to feel? Oh, this is, you know what? Actually, I have had like a little bit of that feeling where like I was like, oh, is this like, I don't feel any anxiety. That's weird.

Oh, I don't have to ask this person for this or that. They're actually giving it to me. Oh, that's so weird. Ooh. There's no like misunderstandings in a sense. Like, you know, like regular things that before were like, oh, my, this is crazy. now he's like, oh, okay, maybe this is how we're supposed to feel. You know, I'm curious, I'm going to bounce back because you something in the beginning.

I've always felt like I'm too much. Which part feels too much? I want to defuse because you are not, right? You as a whole person are not too much because if that were the case, and no one ever would be around you. But what's the part of you that feels like it's too much? Needy. That's the word that has always popped up.

Oh, my God, you're so needy. Needy to me means that I need more attention than maybe some other person. in a sense of like, oh, maybe I need for someone to text me more or call me more times or make plans with me more often or spend more time with me, which I thought it was normal. Okay, I'm going to challenge that. Not that you said anything wrong, but is it that you feel like you're too needy or is it that you feel like you don't have the right to have needs? Oh, wow. That's a good one.

Because too needy, there's, I can think parts of you, right? There is definitely, especially if you're like, I need you to call me every 20 minutes. It's like, okay, that's an honest. unrealistic need. And that's not even a need. That's a want, right? That's a desire for safety. But I think if it's constantly feeling like too much, like I had a narcissistic father. If you even so much as cried in front of him, he would hit you. He would walk out. He was incredibly abusive verbally and physically at times. And so I grew up going, there's something wrong with you because even a fundamental need of, can I have a hug, was met with dismissal or, uh, or something being an issue.

And so I'll go back. Are you too needy or are you just shaming yourself for having a need? I think I'm maybe shaming myself for having a need because now that you said that my dad was exactly the same. Right. Every time I needed a hug, oh my God, now I can't do that now. Like just go sit over there. And I was like, okay, well, whatever. So yeah.

Because now how would anybody, because that's the difference, right, when we said a boundary by saying, no, that doesn't work for me. That's a need, right? I need a lone time. But if I feel guilty and don't think I'm deserving and worthy, then me saying I need a loan time is, because finish the sentence, you have a need and you express it. What are you scared of happening by having that need? At the time, I feel like I was scared of the person leaving.

Because needs equal, I'm too much and they're going to leave me and I'm not enough. But then the irony is what we're so afraid of happening ends up happening. Because by playing the cool girl or guy, which doesn't exist, by the way, in case you haven't figured that one out by now, which I took me 30. three years to figure out, the cooler girl or guy doesn't work out because we all fundamentally have needs. If you are somebody that doesn't speak up in a relationship, that doesn't tell somebody how you feel, that doesn't express a need, then you're self-abandoning to either keep them in the relationship or keep yourself in the relationship by convincing yourself that you're happy. And so if we

are feeling fundamentally broken or guilty for having a need, that's because somebody along the way taught you that that that is not safe and that the boundary isn't safe to have. And now that's the work that we get to do is teaching ourselves that was never the accurate saying. It was just that one fucking person taught us that, and now I get to let them know that they're a goddamn liar. I love that. This episode is sponsored by Tumble. I love my rug, but when I had Clemmy, I couldn't have a rug in the house because, lo and behold, when you have a dog, it's not the best thing.

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Because anytime that voice comes in, like that's why I was curious which one it was. You know, and then you said your mom was overprotective. And I would imagine then because overprotective, what I hear from that is that she didn't really let you have your own identity because if she was constantly trying to protect you and hover over you, then you weren't given the space to be freely yourself. Exactly.

I feel like she was, she created this fantasy in a sense where I was in. So she could totally protect me from whatever it was going on with my dad or situations or arguments or whatever to the point where I was like, okay, well, it's safe here, right? But I was not able to completely be myself. Because your nervous system, safe meant I'm not being abandoned. But safe didn't actually mean I could disarm because, I mean, at least now I know, feeling safe is really uncomfortable for me. I don't know what to do with that. When my partner is reciprocal, when the business is going well, because who is Sabrina if she has nothing? to struggle. Oh my gosh. So I'm curious, who is Judith if she doesn't have to struggle? If she

doesn't have to worry that people are going to leave her, who is she now? I honestly still struggle with that part. Well, let's talk, let's talk that part. Who does that part want to be? It's so crazy that you mentioned this because I always, I feel like I'm always struggling with something. If it's not relationship-wise, it's work. If not, it's like, what am I going to leave? And if not, it's just always something. So I don't know. Can you? I have. I have. I have. I have no idea. I can even put myself in that situation in a sense because I feel like I'm always struggling with something.

Okay. What does struggling give you? What does that give you? You said it earlier, way earlier. And I'm curious if it'll come back. But what is always struggling? Oh, man, now you're making me think what I said before. What did I say?

I feel like I said so many things. He said one word. Oh, did I? Yeah. I can say it again if you want. Yes, please, because not what I know. Makes you the victim. Oh, gosh.

Right? It's learned helplessness because if we're always struggling, then we can say, oh, I don't have the strength to pull myself out of this. Oh, I don't know what I'm doing because especially growing up, if you always wanted someone to come save you, then now we're always looking for the next person to save because it gives us a reason to keep going as opposed to, oh, there's nothing wrong with me. There never has been. Oh, so I was just taught some bullshit because now who do I get to be? Right. Do I get to be the person that believes in the themselves? Do I get to be the person that if someone says something mean, that doesn't impact me? Do I get to be the person that genuinely doesn't believe that there's anything wrong with them and that they are fundamentally beautiful as they are? Because if I do that, then what happens? There's your identity. Wow. That's crazy. I'd never even thought of that. Your identity has always been, I'm the one that struggles and I'm the one that's a problem. But if we strip that away, because even now you said you're like, I'm going to take time for myself and I'm going to do my own thing. well but in that then you are also inadvertently dropping that narrative because by you focusing on just yourself there's no external that's going to cause that exactly that's probably why I'm focusing just on that's why I was curious if you were focusing on yourself because it was a protective mechanism or because it comes from an authentic place I want to believe it's because it's coming from an authentic place but of course I knew that you were going to like make me let me let me ask you if it's if it's coming from an authentic place, then how would you feel like if you met somebody tomorrow,

would you feel comfortable going out with them or do you feel scared about it? I'll feel comfortable. Okay. I believe and I want to believe I will feel comfortable. Good. Yeah. More is just challenging it, right? I think sometimes we need a little tune up of like, no, no, no, no, this is a choice.

And it's like, that's cool, right? You're allowed to be single as long as you want. You don't have to be in a relationship. But I think what's important is getting curious about our why. Not the why is so that we can psychoanalyze ourselves, but so that we can make make sure that this is coming from a choice because I think for a long time you didn't have a lot of choices. Growing up, you weren't given choices. And now you're an adult and you can say, mom's not going to tell me what to do. Dad's not going to tell me what to do. I'm going to say that

this is what I need right now. And I think that's really beautiful. And I want to ask you another question. What parts of yourself do you not think are lovable? No questions. I can answer for you if you need, but I want to hear your thoughts. I've got my own. Don't worry. I'm going to go back to the being too much. Okay. What do you think is unlovable? about that. Maybe because like sometimes I talk too much or I express myself too much when it comes to feelings or things that I think. I have even felt that way with friends. It's not like my friends have ever made me feel that way, but like sometimes I'm like, am I talking too much? And maybe they think that I'm too intense. Am I like expressing my thoughts too much to them, like or my

feelings in that moment about whatever is going on in my life. So like it makes me feel like the too much part is what kind of. And no one's ever going to love that. Yeah. Okay. Do you genuinely believe that you were too much or were you taught that you were too much? I think it's a little bit of both. Okay. Fair. I definitely was taught that I was too much because my dad always made me feel like I was asking for too much or needing too much from him for what he could give. What's the other side of that, though? Right. So is there a way that we could also reframe, right? So sure, right? That's valid. I'll tell you my part. I think that anxiety part, no one's ever going to love that part. Because my own dad couldn't love me in all of my different scenarios. But then on the other side, what does that also give me is I have like, by me talking fast, that's my brain works differently. I have superpowers that other people don't. I can be in a room and have seven different conversations coming at me and be able to keep all of them. Whereas Ryan, one track. If it's not one, he cannot. And he has different superpowers. So that one part that you think is not lovable, is there another way that we could view her? So she talks a lot. But what does that mean? She has a lot to say. She has a lot to offer because I get bored when people don't talk. I feel like I have to fill in this space.

Me too. And so maybe it's also looking at that part because the parts of us that we hate, can't look at, don't want to love, those are usually the parts that need us the most. Because what they're saying is, oh, well, if you hate me too, well, then you're like everyone else. But instead, I'd be curious because maybe we could look at that little girl and, like, give her a big fucking hug because she kept you safe. By filling in the blanks, by allowing you to have a lot to talk about, she kept you safe so that you could keep going because no one was talking to you either. No one was telling you that. That is so true. That is very true. Right?

Yeah. So I think it's valid. I think it's real that you feel like no one's going to love that part. 100% I understand that. But I also think that is there a world that we could hold both of those thoughts? in confliction. Is that even a word? I don't know. But maybe we can have those two conflicting thoughts that, yes, while some people might think that's too much, I don't believe that. I love that you're saying that. That really is like getting in there. Because I don't think

you're too much. I've never once thought you talked too much. Or me, please, that ship sailed a long time ago. But I think that's why I love this community so much is because we can all let our freak flags fly, right? If I say it every day, if I'm too much, go find less. If I talk too much, find another fucking show. You don't like how much I curse. Get bet. If you don't like how I show up authentically, then that's okay. You don't accept me as I am, but that doesn't mean I need to keep you in my life. But that's exactly why I love you. Oh, thanks. Because you are yourself from the get-go since I met you. You've always been like. But I'll be honest, too. Do I still cry at night and think I'm too much? 100%. I'd be lying to you if I said that I just go.

into my room every night and I'm like, living on a fucking dream. No, I'll have times where some episodes don't too well and I'm like, that's it. They're leaving me. That's not real, right? But that doesn't mean that those core moments don't come back. It's what we do with them, which is why I was asking, I think it's so beautiful that you are building that relationship with your little because the last thing she needs is you to get rid of her. That's the last thing she needs. What she needs is for you to hold on to her so tight so that everyone you date, you throw it on the fucking table. Your dick is out there like it's no you're swinging it around town because when I met Ryan I was I was like fuck it what do I have to lose this guy doesn't like me no worries there's plenty of people that

don't but then I found someone that really did like me that kept showing up because if I'm not okay with me how can other people be okay with me that is so true I'm curious like for you what is the version of you that you want to step into what does she look like not physically obviously but you were good with the physical no no she's more than enough but what does she look like because you had toxic, you had your ex, he cheated on you. And one thing that we also didn't mention, I know the personal story, he didn't just cheat on you. He went with somebody who was transgender. And so at the end of the day, there was nothing you ever could have done to change that because he had desires that you physically cannot actually satisfy.

The part of you, I'm sure, that wondered if there was something wrong with you and what you could have done differently, probably the same one with your dad. Does that part feel more hurt now or does that part still come out? because consciously we can know there was nothing you could have done, but that doesn't mean you feel that. I felt, honestly, I felt so broken in so many different ways. I felt like I was not pretty at all. I felt like I was not enough. I felt like I was not a woman.

Does that make any sense? I understand it. It's a blind side, especially. I mean, listen, when somebody, it's the same with like if you're heterosexual and you're dating someone, then they go for the same sex. It's like, that is something that you're like, oh, oh, there's literally nothing I could have done to change that. And that's okay. I want everyone to have their preferences. I just wish you would have been honest with you to tell you, hey, I'm seeking this so that you could have been

like, got it. Totally makes sense. But I think hindsight, is it actually that you're not enough of a woman? Or is it that everything is viewed through. It has to have been my fault. I think so. So I was like, oh, if he had to go find that, it's. because maybe I was not enough. Which I understand where it can come from. But now if we put that thought on trial, are there any facts to back that up? Actually, I even remember having a conversation with him

when I was like, hey, I respect whatever you like. I respect whatever, whoever likes whatever. I don't care. But it's what you just said. I wish you would have told me. Because, like, now I don't know what to do with myself in a sense. Like I was completely like, I was like, wow. You didn't give you a choice.

Exactly. Like, I didn't even do anything about it. Like, I was like, can I talk to him about it? No, because he kept on gaslighting me and telling me, no, it's actually not trans. It's actually a girl. So my brain was like, is it? Is it me? Am I not seeing this like how it is?

Like, it was so messy. And that's conditioning because that's your childhood. your dad doing something and your mom going, no, that's not at. No, no, no, everything's fine. So it wouldn't surprise me? No. But now, is there any residual of that? Or do you feel like?

No, I feel I feel good because I had so much time to like process everything. It still comes up sometimes in my head when I'm like, how was I so silly to not see certain things? So you're starting to shame yourself? A little bit, maybe, yeah. Let me ask you, how do you think that's helping? It's definitely not. But on paper, right? If we think if we shame back in the day, like, I think shame does have a place in the society.

I think we need to bring shame back, not in a place of online. But I think that shaming is a way that we teach, right? Not ourselves, but for other people. You know, if somebody does something stupid, yeah, you deserve to be ashamed of yourself for what you did. And we should be putting that in the eye that you did something like you touched a little kid. Yeah, that is shameful. And you should write things like that where you're like, Yeah, those do hold a place in a time.

But I think if we, guilt is I've done something wrong. Shame is I am wrong. There's something wrong with me. But I think it's interesting that that voice still comes up because we're so far from that, right? You're so far on the other side of it, but yet it's still there. And I think what you're describing is like that's part of being a human, that even those little moments, because why, if you shame yourself, then you can change. But let me ask you, has that ever worked versus compassion of makes total sense that I would feel really confused and that this would have gotten me for a loop, but at the end of the day, I was taught not to trust myself, and that's why I did what I did.

Yeah. I wish that this is why I love you. I wish my brain thought that way. How could it, though, nobody taught it? There we go again, right? You're not going to have to just like pull this out of your ass, right? It's like, you have to be taught that to be like, oh, that's what a reframe is. Got it. I remember when I first went to therapy, I'll never forget. I kept saying it's all my fault. And then one day she said, you're right, it's all your fault. She was repeating back to me. And I said, but it couldn't have all been my fault. Cracked it wide open for me. Because I was like, but how could it? And it just, that's when I was like, oh, and she started smiling. And I remember my therapist being like, this is where I want us to go. Because it's not about the fact that you didn't know. It's about

the fact of what are the choices you're going to make. So I'll bring it back to the question. My ADHD, forgot to finish. Who is the version that you want to become? Who is the Judith that you see yourself in two to three years? I definitely want to be more compassionate to myself, 100%. and I want to also be, I want to give myself the love that my dad never gave me. How does that look like? What does that look like in practice? Just be more patient with myself and be more loving towards myself whenever I make a mistake and not like shame myself so much or punish myself for things that I don't, you know,

I mean, the only way we can learn is by going through some things, right? So I want to have that compassion and that love that my dad never showed me. Allowing yourself to be a human. And so maybe that's now, even if we think about the partner that you want, it's like, I want someone that allows me to be a human that allows me to fuck up. That allows me to be messy. That allows me to take up space because I never had that opportunity. And I deserve someone that allows me to be authentically myself,

fuck ups and all. Because if I can't find somebody that lives that, then you're just going to be walking on eggshells your entire fucking life, trying to rewrite the wrongs that happened to you 30 years ago instead of living in the now because you get to protect your little in ways no one ever did. Yeah. I'm proud of you. Thank you.

You've helped me so much. I'm always in your fucking corner. And I think that you are a prime example of doing the work doesn't stop. It doesn't end. It does not. Both of us, right? I'm on one part of my journey or another. No one's better or worse.

It's just a different part. You might have started two years after it. So you started walking the track differently. But this is what healing is. Healing isn't that I think a lot of people have that misconception that like after a session you're going to be like Oh, that's it. Oh my God, okay, that's it. I can release it all and I can go. But really what it is is that it's just an awareness of going, hey, look over here. And you see a shadow you didn't see before. And so I hope that you could give little Judith a big fucking hug because she did a really incredible job keeping you safe. And she did a really beautiful job being there for you. But now she is going to be fired and given a new job because she gets to go be a kid, which I think is all she ever wanted was to just be able to be herself. And now you get to be the adult to make sure that no, is going to come in and do what your parents did to her again. Oh, definitely. Thank you. Thanks for being the best. Thank you so much for having me. This was so fun.

I know, guys, thank you for being here for our first coaching session, which, you know, here we are. More of a fun conversation than anything. But I'm so grateful for you guys. Please let us know if you liked it. If you hated it, you don't need to tell me. But please let me know if you liked it. And if you guys knew anything as always, don't forget to rate and review the show. Please leave a comment. Let us know what hit. Let us know what resonated with you. If you shared anything with Judith, we are fucking here. I love reading the comment and seeing how you guys are feeling. Don't forget, as always, the book is coming out soon. Why am I like this on sale on October 13th?

Please pre-order it now. And I will be obnoxiously reminding you guys about that. Until then. All right, babes, until next time.