The Sabrina Zohar Show - 208: Breaking Down Every Type of Open Relationship W/ Brandon Kyle Goodman

Episode Date: June 9, 2026

What is polyamory, and how is it different from ethical non-monogamy? Can an open relationship actually last, and is dating really any different across the gay, straight, and bisexual communities? In this Pride Month episode, Sabrina sits down with writer, actor, and Tell Me Something Messy host Brandon Kyle Goodman to unpack poly, ethical non-monogamy (ENM), open relationships, jealousy, trust, and what every monogamous person can learn from how non-monogamous people communicate. They dig into how to know if ENM is actually for you, the real difference between non-monogamy and cheating, how to handle jealousy and insecurity, and why no dating book or set of rules will ever beat honest communication. They also run a live dating profile audit packed with tips on attraction, compatibility, and getting comfortable with rejection. Whoever you love and however you connect, you deserve love like the rest of us. Pre-order Sabrina's book coming out October 2026,⁠ "Why Am I Like This?"⁠ Get your free workbook and access to the companion course after pre-ordering 'Why Am I Like This?' by filling out the form at the bottom of the page at http://sabrinazohar.com/book Take the new and improved dating quiz! sabrinazohar.com/quiz If you’re ready to slow down, trust your instincts, and break your old dating patterns, the Healthy Relationship Foundations Course walks you through it step-by-step  ⁠HERE!⁠ If you’re serious about changing your dating patterns instead of repeating them, the Art of Going Slow course helps you unlearn urgency, regulate your nervous system, and build real connection without rushing, chasing, or abandoning yourself ⁠HERE!⁠ Get Ad free ⁠HERE!⁠  Watch on Spotify. Spotify subscribers get fewer ads on my video. Want to work with Sabrina? ⁠HERE!⁠  Get merch for The Sabrina Zohar Show ⁠HERE!⁠  Don't forget to follow ⁠Sabrina⁠ and ⁠The Sabrina Zohar Show⁠ on Instagram and ⁠Sabrina ⁠on TikTok! Video now available on ⁠YOUTUBE!⁠ Please support our sponsors! Visit DRINKAG1.COM/ ZOHAR to get a free Morning Person Hat and free AG1 Flavor Sampler in your Welcome Kit with your first AG1 subscription (an $82 value!) Aura has a great deal for Father’s Day, an exclusive $35-off Carver Mat at https://on.auraframes.com/SABRINA. Promo Code SABRINA Treat yourself to gear that looks good, feels good, and doesn’t break the bank with Fabletics. Go to Fabletics.com/SABRINA and sign up as a VIP and get eighty percent off everything! Download Cash App Today: https://capl.onelink.me/vFut/mlzhc53l Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App’s bank partner(s). Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC. Cash App Visa® Debit Flex Cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC, and The Bancorp Bank, N.A., pursuant to a license from Visa U.S.A. Inc. See terms and conditions for the Sutton prepaid card, Sutton debit flex card, and Bancorp debit flex card. Cash App Green features, Savings, Direct deposit, Round ups, Overdraft coverage and Discounts provided by Cash App, a Block, Inc. brand. Visit cash.app/legal/podcast for full disclosures. ============================= Chapters: 00:00 Polyamory and Open Relationships Intro 06:08 Why Men Love Bitches and Dating Rules 10:14 Masculine and Feminine Energy in Love 14:22 What Polyamory Actually Is 18:29 How to Know if Polyamory Is for You 22:34 Open Relationship vs Cheating 29:10 Why People Choose Polyamory 35:03 Using Sex to Numb Loneliness 42:29 Dating Profile Audit and Tips 51:36 Meeting People and Handling Rejection Disclaimer: The Sabrina Zohar Show, formerly known as Do The Work, is not affiliated with A.Z & associates LLC in any capacity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Spotify, it's Jay Shetty. Are you one of those media strategy people? Scrolling through spreadsheets, searching for an audience that pays twice as much attention to your ads than they do on social? Let me introduce you to fans. And they're here with me on Spotify. Trust me, I know fans. They don't skip. They stay for hours.

They don't move on. They manifest. They're not a demographic group. They're fans. Spotify advertising. You're among fans. What is Polly? What is ethically non-monogamous? Are you in the right relationship for you? Wait, what's going on in the gay community? Is it the same as what's happening in the straight community?

All of your questions answered and more on today's episode. Hello, hello, hello! And welcome to another episode of the Sabrina Zohar Show. My name is Sabrina Zohar and I am your host. You guys, we have a really special guest, one of my favorite people on the planet, to be exact. Brandon Kyle Goodman is here. And this is not just for one specific group of people today. We're talking to everybody. if you have ever asked questions of like non-traditional relationships, understanding, because like, your girl's not Polly. So we need to bring in the experts to understand what the fuck we're going to talk about. And that's why we have Brandon here today.

I'm so excited. Guys, as always, please don't forget to rate and review the show. Pre-order my book, why am I like this? Because, duh, you're going to want it. And you get a free course as a thank you. So don't forget to submit that at Subridazoa.com. And as always, guys, thank you for being here. All I ask is that we grow a community of kindness, of love, of safety.

And so if you don't like the show, that's okay. You don't have to fucking listen, but you don't have to be a dick and leave a shitty comment on your way out. It's totally cool. But if you're going to rate and review it, please leave five stars. Don't forget to share it with your friend. And just thank you for being here. Thank you for showing up as you and allowing me to show up as me. And guys, if you need anything, everything's at Sabrinazohar.com.

You can work one-on-one, join a course, anything you need. Or you could just be here. Listen, ad-free or with ads, whatever you guys want. I am here for you and the same way that you guys are here for me. All right, babes. Without further ado, let's get right on into it, shall we? Well, hello. Hi.

Hi. Could we just make that the episode? Hi! To anyone listening and they're like, no, no, no, no, next. I am so fucking excited. This has been months in the making. Yes. We were supposed to record it a while like a month ago and then life happens.

But we're here. We made it happen. We did it. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. So before we get started, we do so many things. We're going to do a profile audit today. We'll answer some audience questions and I'm going to ask you all the questions.

Could you share a little bit about you? I was like our guest to do you say. Oh, yeah. Okay, so my name is Brincah Goodman. I'm a tourist. Picey's Moon, Stanch Rising, aka the best human you ever met. I love French fries, very particular about it. I'm allergic to potatoes.

Did you know this? But I love French fries. I had my allergy test done where they like prick you. And she was like, you're allergic to potatoes. I was like, French fries? And she was like, yeah. She's like, I'm sure that's the same. How do you bypass that?

I eat them. Perfect. And I'd cry after, but I can't give up French fries. I have so many allergies. I am a writer, an actor, an host at my own podcast, I'm listening messy, which you were a guest on. I love it. We talk about adulting.

Yeah, and I'm from New York originally, live in L.A. now. I feel like I'm giving you a dating profile, but that's what we want, right? That's what we're here for. Essentially is a version of that. So I live in L.A. I've been here for 10 years. And my favorite color is, well, honestly, right now it's like a pink. Oh, wait, which color pink? Ooh, that's a great question.

Like what shade? Like a magenta. Oh, pretty. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like a magenta pig. Also, you didn't need to tell us you're from L.A. Because you gave me your big three to start.

And so we already knew you were living in L.A. I got a crystal one pocket name. What are we talking about? Because the New Yorkers are like, you've got to guess us. Literally, literally, I go back to New York and I'm like, what's your side? They're like, girl, go back home. You don't live here anymore. You're like, fuck you is my sign.

You're like, now I'm home. Welcome back. I'm for everyone listening to New York. Thank you. Thank you for your service. But like, maybe a little cynical. Yes. Okay.

So the reason I really like, yes, this is our, it's Pride Month. Yoohoo! Yay! But this is not just for, like I want to make sure that we encompass everybody. Now, if you're a little bit gay. Everybody's a little gay. If you're in the community, fuck yeah. This is for you.

Welcome. Q plus. Hi. Yay. But if not, that's okay too. And so I always like to preface that because I want everyone to feel really comfortable and seen. So I really wanted to talk about today. First, actually, because you and I talked a little bit offline about this,

but let's talk online about it. Yes. hear a lot, a lot of people are constantly asking me of like, do you have like things specifically for the gay community, the lesbian community? And then I have to stop and say, okay, I speak in they. I don't, I don't do gender norms unless I'm giving you personal experience because I was only a dating men. Sure. But outside of that, I was like, what are the differences, right? Truly. Yeah. Have you noticed, if you're in it? Have you noticed any specific differences between the gay, the straight, the bisexual, right, whatever, the communities? No, everyone wants to be seen,

heard and valued at the end of the day. Like I think we might have different packaging, but it's the same desire to be loved. It's the same desire to like figure out how to break patterns. Also, it's like the same bullshit cycles that people are looped into. You know, I think we're all having the same group chats, the same arguments, fights with our friends and our and our significant others. So I don't think there's much of a difference because we're all human, you know? The only time I'm like, the only norm that I can think of, and that's how sad it is, of, like, who texts first, right? That would be...

Yeah, sure. But even that, isn't that, like, kind of like... A bit of a stretch for me. Yeah, like, I think that we're breaking against that. I think it's okay for... I mean, maybe not. I don't know. Maybe the straits are like...

Here's what I'll say. No, the straits are... I think there are some straits that are, like, deep in that, like, trad wife situation where they're very much about, like, an old-school traditional. But I'm so far removed from that. And the straits that I'm friends with

are so far removed. move from that that like to me we're all the same but I guess in that instance we're not and there are some gays who are like that too yeah who are really like conservative and traditional and I'm very far away from them too you're like we're on the other side oh my other side baby I don't do that I it's funny because when I dated it's you know it's it's in my rear view mirror right now and so when I dated I the reason it wasn't because of a gender norm it wasn't like well as the woman I don't need to text the reason I didn't was I was like hey sab you're showing too much interest and this person's not reciprocating

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So why don't we let them also come to you so that you, right? It's a dance. It's back and forth. That was it. But it wasn't because, like, as the man, you should be texting me first. It's like, I'm sorry, what arbitrary rule was that? Who created that?

What are we doing with this? Did you read the rules? I used to love the. Wait, is that what it's called the rules? The rules. It was a book called The Rules and then the updated one was not my mother's rules. And I was obsessed. It was all about, like, don't date, don't call first, don't do that.

Like, it was literally the rules of dating. And I followed it. I got married. Can we add a little asterix to it though? Wait, wait, wait. He did get married. He did.

I did get married. What didn't work from the rules? What didn't? I mean, ultimately, none of it works because at a certain point you're like, I have to communicate. Like, I can't, you can't read my mind. You know, like, you can play the chess games

to like, I guess the prey, not the prey, the catch and chase for a moment. But once you're in the relationship, the rules don't help then. No. Like now I got to deal with who you are. are and you got to do who I am. And if I've been lying to you through this cat and mouse thing, then like, we're kind of

that white men love bitches. Wait, sorry, did you say white men love bitches? Or why men love bitches? Yeah, why men love bitches. You're like, hold the throat. Either way I'm like, huh? God, I need to enunciate. Why men love bitches is a book my girlfriend gave me years ago.

Okay, yeah. And I remember even then, I was kind of, this is when she was like, you need to stop, like, going after these guys and you need to play a cool and you need to do that take this book yeah and i remember sitting reading it and being like this is avoidance you're just teaching women of men a woman like the nice girl tells a man how he feels a bitch never tells him how he feels and it's like way way what first of all i don't want to be a bitch you're already into enough people but second of all to me the games don't really make any sense i don't care what community you're in yes because again is there something like because i have right now about to be fair like 60%

male clients and about 40% women, which I'm cool with that. I don't know what fuck. I don't care who. And I have a good portion of people in the gay community. There is no difference. There is no difference when I hear them talk, when I hear a straight person talk, when I hear a man talk, when I hear a woman talk, when I hear they talk. It's all the same. Now, the only thing, obviously, is the obvious moments of the insecurities of like I was never accepted for being gay growing up. Okay, of course, right? That's a different wound than one that I might have. But I could all but guarantee you, don't worry. My dad didn't accept me either. I was too much, right?

But I think, honestly, when we try to segment, I think that puts us more into a divide than it does into a connection. There's actually so much that we can learn from each other when we connect. It's a place of trying to be like, oh, no, you're over here and I'm over there. What are you learning from the streets? I'm learning what not to do quite a bit. I'm learning what not to do, which is I'm learning to actually offer what I'm feeling. I'm learning to use my voice a lot more. I'm learning to like stand.

I'm also learning about my math. masculinity. Okay. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. So I'm watching The Sopranos, as you as I told you. Super masculine.

I've always been terrified. I'm not terrified, but like I was always like avoidant of the Sopranos because I thought it was being too much for me. But I've discovered that in the bedroom is when I'm able to tap into my masculinity in a really safe way. And that version of a masculinity doesn't feel like what I thought masculinity was. It feels soft. It feels generous, but it also still feels dumb.

And so I was like, oh, how. How can I take this energy that I'm discovering in the bedroom and use it in other places in my life, which is why I'm watching The Sopranos, because I was like, I feel like that's pretty fucking masculine. The work meetings you're going to have. You're like, all of a sudden, you're like, I told him I'll focus let your throat, motherfucker. The meetings I'm having are quite different. What'd you say?

What'd you fucking say? There's a New Yorker. There's a New Yorker. But like, just learning that we all have masculine in fat mafaw, if you will. And so, like, we can tap into both those things as opposed to regulating and being like, I'm the man, so I'm only masculine. I'm the woman. I'm only feminine. So, no, you have both of these things tap, which is very, I think, queer coded, but I think should be everyone coded, which is we have it all.

So use it all. And where will it service you? Masculinity might service you in the boredom, but so will femininity. Like, it doesn't need to be relegated to one area or one corner. My issue with this whole polarity between the masculine and feminine, feminine, is. that what we're saying is that someone showing emotions, if that's feminine, it's like well then we're going right back to 1940

of men, don't be a pussy, hide your feelings, things like that. And I'm like, you know what makes my partner really masculine to me is when he can cry but still be able to hold himself. When you can tap into that place and be like, hey, babe, I just wanted you to know I'm not asking for anything. And you're like,

that's really hot. You were in touch with your feelings? That's so hot to me. Sexity. Whatever that. Masking, whatever it is. But you know what you're feeling and you can communicate it and you can ask for what you need, or you can even say, I don't know what I need, but I need something. Like that, as opposed to, like, throwing something at the wall. Like, you throwing shit at the wall does not make me feel safe or turned on. No.

And it's like, or doing the, like, I don't know, or the, you know, man going to provide. Women stay in the kitchen. And it's like, okay, listen, if that's what you want, good luck on speed. I wish you the best. Do that. That sounds great for you. But I think for me, I'm glad that we're normalizing this because it has really fucking bothered me.

That women feel this. Or if a woman tells them. man how she feels that's her being in her masculine and it's like okay here's a thought process i have to be in my masculine as an as a business owner yes as a woman in a very male dominated industry like i had to learn that the hard way when especially when i start working fashion i was like oh it's all women now no it's still most of the business owners are men most of the businesses were owned by men and i'll never forget you'll probably appreciate this when i first started software rip i close off for last week this time it's okay but when i first started software and a male uh uh guy that

was my business partner and then the production guy was man. It was all men. Yeah. And I remember I was in the room and I kept saying something was going on with the drawstrings and I was like something's going on. We're having an issue. And one of the guys goes, you know, why don't you let the boys talk and you can go outside and you can talk to the seamstresses if you have such an issue with these issues? The way that the kerosene would have come out of nowhere. And I just sat there and I was like, okay, well, all of those people don't work for me anymore. And I ended up taking the company into a multimillion dollar business and I ended up getting rid of the manufacturer.

I ended up getting rid of, well, one of the guys died. Sorry, RIP, but like that wasn't, I didn't do it. I swear. But it was one of those moments where I literally had to stop. And I was like, so for anyone who doesn't believe in the inequality, it's right here. And that's where I'm like, oh, let the boys talk. It's like, don't worry, you'll see what happens when the girls talk. Exactly.

Because also like, I don't know if you noticed this. I'm sure you have. The higher I clap, I'm like, y'all are dumb up here. And whatever your genders are. Less air. Y'all don't have the action coming up here. Y'all are dumb up here. So let the boys talk.

No, no, no. Respectfully, no. This episode is sponsored by AG1. You guys, it's summer, which means we're traveling, we're going out there, we're being suns out, buns out, and this is now time for you to take care of yourself. And AG1 is something I never leave the house without, because AG1 is a daily health drink with a multivitamin, pre-and-probiotics, superfoods, and antioxidants. It is literally one scoop, eight ounces of water, and the next-gen formula actually delivers 75-plus

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because we can because I could talk to you about anything. Okay, I want to talk today about non-traditional dating. Yeah. You're in the poly community. I get this every day. I have an, I could no fuck all because I struggled to be in a relationship with one person. Sure. The whole idea. is a lot. Can you explain to me what Polly is and isn't? Because I thought for a long time, Polly, it's like, it's not a thruple, but it can't, like, what is it? It's ultimately multiple loves. Okay. Like monogamy, mono, one, Polly, multiple. So it's multiple loves. How you set up that relationship is different between each person or each dynamic. So some relationships, it is a thruple. It's like the three

of us are dating together and those are our rules. Some, it's like parallel where it's like, we're the anchor partners and you have your partner and I have my partner. Sometimes there's polyamory where only one partner has another partner, and the other partner just wants to stay in the monogamous. So, like, whatever you all agree upon is what the relationship is. But Polly is multiple loves. How do you decide? How did you know you were okay with that? You know, I didn't have the language for it, but I do remember, and I was just talking to Dr. Vanessa Marion, who we both love, about when I was like 18 or 19, I remember I had my first boyfriend, and I said,

I don't care if you cheat, just don't lie to me. And so that was always my thing, was like, I actually never was bothered by the idea of my partner sleeping with someone else. It was them not telling me or me not knowing that bothered me, which I didn't understand was like, really a tentative polyamory. It's like, I don't care who you fuck or who you're dating. I just, like, want to be in the know about it. So my whole life, I just assumed I'd be monogamous.

And then my husband and I got married about eight years ago. And I think in a second year of a relationship was when he was like, can we talk about opening our relationship? And I was glad he did because when we first got together, he didn't want to. And I didn't make it a deal breaker because I didn't know that non-monogamy was an option. I didn't know it was a thing.

So I was like, yeah, I guess I'm supposed to be monogamous or whatever. But when he asked to open, I was like, oh, cool, yeah, let's do it. And so we started with just really simple rules, which was like, you can sleep with somebody when one of us is out of town. And that was that. And that's what I will say, and we'll get into this. But like, I think that some people will try to go to 10 with polyamory. And it's like, if it was your first time, you start very small and

simple, which might just be when your partner's out of town, you could hang out with somebody else, and that might just be it. And it's a one-off. And then that started to build from there. So it wasn't necessarily polyamory. It was more so just open relationship. And then I was having trouble with the one-off hookups. I need emotional connection. And I learned that about my sex life that I need to be connected to people and would rather a repeat partner than just one-off, one-night stance. So that's when it started to teeter towards polyamory, which was like, oh, we starting to like see people regularly, but we didn't, we still didn't name it polyamory. And then there was one guy that I was seeing like every Friday, every Friday and or Saturday for like months.

And he was catching feelings. And it was the first time that I was like, I like, I like you a lot. Maybe I'll ask my partner if this is something he would be into. That didn't go forward, but that's how it began. Okay. And my partner was also like seeing somebody pretty regularly. And so he was like, do you want to meet them? So again, we didn't know exactly what we were doing yet, but we were like dipping our toe into polyamory. And then finally, officially, we were like, I think this is something that we want for our, for our relationship. So it sounds like when I'm hearing is that polyamory is what you make of it, right?

Like you get to create the rules. It doesn't have to be, it doesn't mean like this is what everyone has. It could be, I have this and like, I don't want to know if you sleep with that person or I do. Yes. Because like I would imagine, right, also the frivolous hookup if I'm doing. dating somebody and I'm like, oh, I don't want you to just be like sleeping with 20 people in a week. It's like have the same partner so that we know who's getting tested.

We know that we're safe. Yeah. I mean, pregnancy is not your issue. Yeah, yeah. For me, it wishes. That would be the thing. Is ethically non-monogamous the same as poly? So here's what I'll say.

With ethical non-monogamy, the E part of it always stresses me out because I'm like, it should be ethical no matter what, whether it's poly or non-monogamy or monogamy or monogamy, like, it should just be ethical. Like, there should be consent. But non-monogamy doesn't have to be the same as polyamory. Like polyamory, I would say you're like in a relationship. We're dating. Whereas non-monogamy would just be like, our relationship is open.

So we're able to fuck other people or see other people, but we're not necessarily calling them our partners. Okay, so ethically non-monogamous is closer to open relationship. Polly is having multiple. You could put Polly underneath the umbrella of ethical non-monogamy. We get a lot of questions from people saying the person I'm dating wants Polly. They want to open up the relationship. Yeah. How would you, or what advice would you have to somebody if they're trying to even understand if that's something they want?

because I think for a lot of us it comes as a surprise. Like you had it at 18, you kind of knew that you were cool with it. But if Ryan came to me tomorrow and was like, hey, babe, I'd really like this. How can somebody understand if that's what they want? Oh, read about it. Read about it. Research it. Listen to conversations like this.

Listen to people who are in relationships. The reason it's scary is because you don't know what it is. Right? And that's like anything. So I think it's like research. Like I'm curious about this thing. I don't know if it's for me. Let me start researching.

Let me either get ethical slut, you know, or it's a great book. or watch people on YouTube talk about it or, you know, follow substacks, but just start to consume information about it so you can get an understanding of what it is that you're either agreeing to or not agreeing to. And then I think it's like with your partner, hey, I'm down to try this out, but like let's have some really major roadblocks here, like guard rails so that we can test this out and check in. You got to test and check, test and check. You don't just like keep going and see what works and adjust. It's wet cement. it always gets to adjust. Like, just because we agree to this today

does not mean it needs to look like that tomorrow. What about the thoughts of, like, did you ever get worried that your partner was going to choose the other person? Did they get worried that you, the jealousy component, the insecurity? The only thing I can say, and I always say my partners will say this to you

if I wasn't here, is that I don't really get jealous and that's just my temperament. But I think jealousy is a real temperament. It's not something to be scared of, though, because we can get jealous of a lot of things, right? And so it's a matter of what do you do with that jealousy? Do you talk about it or do you stew on it? Do you react or do you respond with it?

So it's like if there's jealousy, great, beautiful. Let's have a conversation about it. What exactly am I jealous about? Well, I feel like when you go over there, I'm being left by myself. Is that actually what's happening? Maybe just even voicing it allows you to say it. And now your partner gets to go, 20 minutes of extra cuddling. And you're like, actually, that would be great.

20 minutes of extra cuddling. And then you feel fine. You're like, go off, do you think? But talk about it. What I'm hearing the through line is that you need to painfully communicate. It is so much communication. Like monogamy, shout out to y'all, because you can go on a fucking default train and be like, yeah, we're on this thing. Polyamory, any non-monogamy, you have to talk.

In fact, that's what I think people who are in monogamy can learn from people who are not monogamous is you got to communicate, like over-communicate. Sorry, you talk. You have to talk. It comes out. It comes out. It's like the Brooklyn Queen. You have to have a conversation. You have to talk.

It's funny. Somebody had asked an audience question. because I'd ask them, how do you know if you're actually wired for E&M or Polly or if you're just trying to avoid commitment or intimacy? Because you ask that question. That's why, you know. Here's the dead giveaway. That's the dead giveaway. I mean, because for me, Polly Amory or non-monogamy, there's a genuine interest in it.

I would even say there's like a spiritual interest. You're like, there's something about my makeup that is curious about this thing. As opposed to, if you think you might be trying to voice out, oh, jeezer, you probably are. You know who you are. Answers in the question. Yes. I know. And somebody had asked, can Polly ever work or last long term?

How long, like, what is that runway? Is it just as long as you decide? Yeah. I think Polly, I think it's the same with monogamy. Can monogamy last? Yeah, sure. Sometimes it can. Sometimes it doesn't.

It's a relationship. So it's really about the people inside that relationship. And if we're able to grow together and how long we're able to grow together. And sometimes that changes. And I will say for any relationship, it's not a failure if it changes. I think the failure is staying in a relationship when it's done. like past its due date. But being able to say, hey, we did this for five years.

We did this for 10, 20 years. And now I want something different or we want something different. And being able to honor that, that is a success. Because those 20 years don't go anywhere. And there's a big difference between my partner knows about this. We are both on the same page versus I've seen the people that you're like, wait, is it just your wife? Like, are you fucking around behind her back?

Yes. Like, how do you navigate that? Yeah, thank you. People call, that's the bad rap that polyamory gets. Like, that's cheating, love. Like, that's not polyamory. It's not monogamy. That's just straight up cheating.

We're lying here. If I went out on another date right now, and he didn't know, I'm cheating on him. But if I tell him, hey, I'm going to go out tonight. Here's their profile. Here's who I'm going to be with. And he's like, cool. Ciao. See you when he get home.

Yeah. But I guess for me, I don't know if there's any real way to check on that. Like, I mean, in your experience, like. It's a deep trust. I mean, it's a deep level of, I have no interest in being a relationship. And this is romantic, platonic, familial, where I can't trust you. So I'm not looking for you to lie to me. So I'm going to take what you say unless I find out differently.

I'm going to take what you say is the truth because I don't have, I just don't have the bandwidth to be like, to do the detective work, to be checking your phone. If I'm suspicious that something's going on, then I'm going to say that. Yeah. Is this something that you normally, like, in your experience, do you have these conversations like first date? Is it before you even go out with this person? Are you meeting people on specific sites to make sure that you guys are in line? Because I remember in my day, I would see that you'd think everything's good and maybe you missed it on their profile and it would be like, by the way, I'm married.

And you're like, what? Yeah. Or they wouldn't say anything. And they'd be like, oh, yeah, I have a girlfriend. And you're like, wait, when were you? Like, so are you looking for open? Does she know about this? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

How do you find something like this that actually does feel safe and secure for you? In my profile, I always say open relationship so that that's already on the table. And I also had no problem talking about my partner. And so like that's also a dead giveaway. And then for me personally, I'm also a public person. So like just do a little Google. You'll find my partner. So that's, but I like to lead with that because I don't want to surprise anyone.

And I'm not ashamed of it. And I want to know, and that's about anything. I want to know from date one if we're a match. And so like I'm not going to try and hide things that might be a deal breaker for you. I'm going to tell you straight up, oh, I have a partner or I have two partners and this is a situation. And how do you feel about it? Do you go beyond to? Would you have like three?

No. Okay. No, I was telling you this offline. When I started my polyship, my partners all had partners. Lovely. Everybody had their everybody. Everybody had everybody. And then my husband broke up with his partner.

My other partner broke up with his partner. And suddenly I was the sole partner. And then you know what happened? Fires broke out in L.A. And I had two partners. And I was the only partner. So you then. have to navigate. Navigate. Evacuating what suddenly like we and our relationship isn't a

thruple so we keep it separate but suddenly the three of us are in a house in Santa Barbara. Do they talk? Like do they interact? Yeah, they're friends. They're like they're cool. They're not like hanging on their own but they have a they're very care about each other. They always check up on each other, ask about each other. But they're not in a relationship together. So it was, we were thrust into like living together for a couple days. Do you just now, do you just go bed to Like, do you just decide? That is how it happened. There was a lot of conversation about how to make this work, but it was like, all right,

I'll spend the day because my husband would work during the day in Santa Barbara. So he was out during the day. So me and my boyfriend would hang out, and then he would come home, a boyfriend would go to his room and I would hang out. I hated it. That's like, no thing. It's like sister wives on steroids. I hated it. I hated it.

Don't want it. That is not, I don't, like, shout it to those who could do it. I don't want that. That's not the version of Polly that. Which, it's funny. Like, I didn't think about that. I never thought about my partners having breakups. I just assumed, oh, great.

Because when my husband and I were dating people, I was like, I learned very quickly, I can only date somebody who is also polyamorous or non-monogamous. Because if they're monogamous, eventually they're going to want this, and I can't give that to them. And so we both were like, yeah, we can only date other people who have partners. And so that's what we were doing. But I never considered that they would break up with their partners. Because when you did that two and a half years ago, you said, you've been with a partner for a minute, your boyfriend, you're like, Didn't see this one coming?

Didn't see a coming. Didn't plan that. Didn't plan for the fires and for us to have to leave. No. I mean, and that's the thing. It's like I'll see sometimes on threads or whatever. I'll be fucking dicking around. And you'll see this like, you know, why are they in a dating app if they're in an open relationship?

I hate that. Shut up. Get out of here. It's like, hey, girl, here's a thought. People are on dating apps because some people are newly single. Somebody maybe just got their heartbroken and wants to dip their toes. Someone's newly single because their partner died. Maybe they have been single for 10 years and they want to put themselves out there.

Just because you have your lived experience as to, why you're using a dating app doesn't mean everybody else is going to match that. Come on. And at the end of the day, it's like content. You're like, you don't like it. Keep swiping. Just keep fucking moving. Yes.

But we don't have to shame or villainize people because Polly works for you but doesn't work for me. There's nothing wrong with you. Your lived experience is not the bar. It's not the only. It's your lived experience. But other people have their own and what they need and they're going to get what they need.

And you get what you need. This episode is sponsored by ORA Frames. You guys, my brother just became a dad. And the first thing I did was buy him an aura frame. Because now every time I come over, I get to see my beautiful new niece in the frame. And the best part is you have free unlimited storage. So you can add as many photos and videos as you want. It's so chic.

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Terms and conditions apply. This episode is sponsored by Fabletics. You guys, I legitimately got my entire family obsessed with Fabletics. I got my mom and I matching Pure Lux leggings. She has eight colors now. Every single time we walk by the store or go online, the first thing she says is, wait, wait, do they have any new ones?

They have become a staple in our home. And I also surprised Ryan with an amazing pair of the shorts. They're called the Infinite Short. Oh my God, he's going on 40 miles for his 40th birthday. And of course, he is decked out and head to toe Fabletics. And so am I because your girl is joining him on the walk and we're going to match because it is the most comfortable. It is so affordable. The quality is unbelievable.

And the styles are so comfortable. You could go from day to night, whether that be coffee runs, a walk, a weekend trip, whatever you guys need they have. Whether it be to and from or active wear or leisure, Fabliacs has your back. And shop now at fabletics.com slash Sabrina to get 70 to 80% off everything when you sign up a new VIP. All you have to do is take a quick style quiz and be sure to select Sabrina when prompted to unlock this offer. This is a limited time offer, so don't wait. Again, that's fabletics.com slash Sabrina for 70 to 80% off everything as a new VIP. What does Polly give you? I'm curious. If anyone's listening right now going, maybe this is for me, what do you get from it that you're like,

I love this or I hate it? Here's what I love about it. And part of this might be like, I think I do have like an undiagnosed ADHD brain a little bit. And so there is, there is like, there is like, a joy that I get from different energy and learning from different energy. Because there's one thing that this partner can teach me and that we're aligned on across these types of things. But then this partner and I are aligned on these types of things. And I get all of that kind of fulfilled. And I get to learn new things and I get to learn about new people.

And so that part of it, I really like. And also, by the way, when two partners are telling you you do X, Y, and Z, you're like, oh, I do that. Don't I? You know what I'm saying? Like, you can't dispute it. It's not just biased. No, like, we had dinner at a time.

It was like the three of us at dinner. And they were like tag team. And I was like, oh, oh, okay. Okay, I guess I do that. Okay, fine. But it's like, oh, cool. Like, there's something I can improve there. So there's, I don't know, there's just checks and balances that I love in terms of somebody who likes self-improvement.

And I think it just, I don't know, it satisfies my soul. And there's, that's kind of inexplicable. There's no way to describe that. It's like something that just satisfies my soul and makes it. makes me feel like this is how I want to live my life and it feels right and it feels good. In the same way they imagine for somebody monocominy satisfies their soul. It works for you. Yeah.

My heart goes out to anybody that like if your automatic response, if your partner comes to you and says, you know, I want to open the relationship. I'm realizing my heart breaks if anybody thinks, what, am I not enough? Are you not attracted to me? Can you go in a little bit more about maybe dispelling that a little bit? Like it's not because, oh, I don't want to fuck my partner anymore. Right. I'm just going to go around and do that. What do you hear when you, like, what do you feel or see or hear when you hear that?

Because I know that that's what people are thinking. Well, there are two things that happen. Because one time, sometimes that is true. That is what's happening. That somebody's afraid of saying the truth and speaking up. And so I think this is why polyamory and nonmonogamy gets a bad rap at times two. Because there are people who don't know how to communicate with their feeling or express what they're feeling. Or they don't want to hurt somebody.

And so they do it in this roundabout way of saying, let's open the relationship or let's explore polyamory. When really it's like, I'm no longer. into this. But in reality, it's about expanding. And it's like, I love my husband and I want him to experience all the glories this life has to give. And there are things

that I just won't be able to offer. On a basic level, we talk about this, which is like, my husband loves hiking and he loves camping. This New Yorker? Oh, no, thank you. Baby, please. I barely want to see Central Park. What do you mean? You take me to the hill, girl. Get the fuck out of here. But he should be able to experience

that end in a way of romance. And so like the idea of him meeting somebody who can fulfill that with him is really exciting to me and and makes me feel great as well. And it's experience that I think he deserves. Like just because I don't like to hike or camp doesn't mean that you shouldn't be able to do that and feel romance when you do that. It's called Brokeneck Mountain for a reason. Like I'm good. I'm good. I remember the first time I went there. I was like, I did almost die.

I'm not going to do that. I did the Griff, Griffin Trail. Is that what called? Park. There you go. See, I don't even know. You'll see, I was like, you'll see Ryan out there.

You're like, no, I won't. I won't be there, love. I don't like that. But I think it's like, you think about it as expanding. Like, your partner is expanding and you want them to expand into the fullness of who they are.

And this is a way that they might be able to do that. It doesn't, it's not about you. It's not something to take personal. And I think that's why I don't get jealous because I know I'm that bitch. Hello? Like, I know I'm a catch. Yeah.

I work on myself. I'm a great partner. So I'm not. threatened by my partner saying, oh, I want to do X, Y, and Z with this person. Because it's like, yeah, I don't want to do that. And that is not, that's not my strength. So go over there and have that. But, like, we're going to come back here.

This is why the communication is number one. It's priority. Like anything. Yeah. Even Ryan's friend, he tried it. He was newly single, and he was like, I'm going to go on field. And I recommend, is that the app. Yeah, shout out to field.

Yeah. Field to me is like the app that you would go on. Sure. He tried it because he was like, he was just newly saying. He was like, I just want to, like, have fun. and I want to see what's out there. there. He tried it. He made a girl. He actually really liked her. And then he realized in it, he was like, I can't do this. I don't want ethically non-monogamous. I don't want Polly.

I actually just want her. And that was okay. And he came out going, I'm going to delete the app. This isn't for me. Notice how I'm like, I'm like, there's nothing wrong with that because you had an experience. You went out there. Because at first I was like, are you cool with this? And he was like, yeah, I'm good. And I was like, I know well enough. I was like, no, you're going, you want a lot of person. Yeah. You want to, it's okay. It's okay. You have every right to do that. But to her, she was like, I'm cool with this. Like my partner knows. Like, it was not a big deal. And he tried and he tried, but he was like, I feelings for her. I don't want her going home to someone else. And I think that that's really fair. At the very least, you tried.

Yes. You tried. You put yourself out there. Now, again, for me, I struggled when I dated multiple people because you're like, oh, wait, I forgot what this person told me. But I think there's a difference between the intentionality, right? You're not just going out on dates, on dates on date so that you can like check things off a list. To your point, it's about the experience you're having. Experience. Opening. Yes. Broadening. Yes. All right. Let's get to say. There's an expansion. There's an expansion. All right.

You ready for a question? Yeah. All right, because I was like, we can talk about this. Okay. Dear Sabrina and team. Episode 185, what heartbreak teaches you about love, you shared how you had casual sex as a way to seek love. That deeply resonated with me. As a gay man in Berlin, I spent my 20s in a pattern of hookups, one-on-one, threesome bathhouse, constantly chasing connection through sex.

That does sound like a good time, though. I'm not going to lie. Especially Berlin? I'm right. I was to say, I was like, I'm not saying everyone should do this, but I slept my way through Manhattan to understand what I liked. That's how I found my sexuality. And like, when a man tied me up for the first time, I was like, I didn't think I was going to love that as much as I did. Hello.

Yes, daddy. Okay. It worked until early symptoms of depression emerged, which intensified after a one-night stand turned into a situation. He eventually told me he wasn't interested in dating me seriously and I went no contact, which was one year ago. I crashed and spend time in a psych ward and continued therapy after. In therapy, I realized I was having sex to numb deep feelings of loneliness and unworthiness. I get you. Now, even though I want a stable, healthy relationship, I feel no sexual desire.

When I tried dating one guy I met through friends after five months of sexual inactivity, I couldn't access the playfulness and in lust I used to have. My body simply didn't respond. Even with the affection and closeness, despite me being attracted to him a lot, I ended up, I ended things when his behavior became disrespectful. Thank you, Sabrina, for teaching me at set boundaries and when to walk away. I'm celibate for three months now, and again, the idea of sexual intimacy feels foreign to me. My question is, what can I expect on my healing journey and in my nervous system? What needs to happen and what can I do for me to reconnect with this vital, joyful part of my life or context? I masturbate occasionally based on my mood.

I have no history of chem sex or drug use, and I have not taken antidepressants, so side effects aren't a factor. Thank you for your honesty and the no BS compassion you share. You're often in my ears when I go for a walk to self-regulate or simply need comfort. My friends and I constantly share your content. Thank you for the work you do. Sending love from Berlin. Is there anything that comes to you in my, because I don't know if you've ever experienced anything like this.

I mean, a couple of things. One, the first thing I thought was, I would love for him or this person to talk to a sex therapist. just like to have, you know, especially since there's a history of depression, to have somebody who, like, deals with sex and to have that combination in the mental health space, I think would be very, very great and beneficial. The other thing is masturbating not just when you're in the mood, but DB, she's a wonderful educator and podcaster. She, I forget the program that she created, but it's like a 14-day masturbation

symposium or something like that. It's like every day you masturbate, which is to really get you in the habit, as opposed to when you don't do something for a while, it becomes harder to do it. And so just like every day, I think, or seven days if you want, just like setting the mood, lighting candles for yourself and getting to learn your body without the pressure of needing to orgasm, without the pressure of needing to ejaculate. But just like, can you create a space that is inviting for you to learn your body again? Because I don't even want to talk about another person yet.

It's like this is really about your relationship to your body. And so like truly giving yourself those seven days and saying, I'm going to spend seven days an hour each day that is dedicated to me learning my body, touching my body, playing with toys, watching if I need to watch something, if I need to not sniff a pauper, but you know what I'm saying? Sniff some essential oils. The gay New Yorker and you just. I was like sniff something.

I was like, oh, they go to think the wrong way. Some lavender, love, some lavender. But just like re-getting into your body is a really important thing and doing it solo. And I say that for everything, because we can't tell people what we want if we don't know what we want ourselves. And so you have to always start with the individual. And I think for me, I understand this person because I used to use sex to connect with people. When I stopped doing that, I didn't have to figure out who I was. I had to figure out what did I actually like, right?

Like I used to want to be the girl in the pornos of like, I'm going to rock his world. I'm gonna, I'm gonna fuck and I'm gonna go down on this guy and make him regret the day he ever tries to end it with me. And like, I had men tell me honestly like, oh, I struggled to break up with you because the sex was so great. Like, but I knew I didn't want to hurt you. I didn't want to string you along. And so even when I met Ryan, I had to then learn like, hey, you don't have to lead with that. Like, sure, we had sex on the first date multiple times. And right, we did it.

And but then after it was like, I couldn't maintain that, right? Once we got into a relationship, you're like, all right, it goes down to a couple times a week. Like I can't have sex with six times in the afternoon. Like, we're busy. We got to work. We got a podcast. I'm fucking cowboy walking after that is, right? And just like you're, and also to your point, like, life happens.

I start to get stressed. And then you realize, like, I need an emotional connection. I don't just want to frivolously. And so maybe that could also be it is because I think for so long Michael was using his body to connect that now it's like, but what about who you are to connect? And then the intimacy and the sex becomes the cherry on top. I want to make sure that you're having fun when you're doing it. And it's not like a, but I also. But I also think that now it's about rediscovering what do you actually like, not what do you need to do to make sure that they like you.

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Yeah. Sometimes queer shame comes into play. Not sometimes. A lot of times queer shame comes into play. And so I would be curious about that outside of sex. Like, what is this person's relationship to their queerness? How do they feel about it? And has sex been a way to numb their...

relationship to their queerness. Because sometimes we're uncomfortable in our queerness, we can, I do to do this, like drink or do drugs and like just fuck and like get out of like the shame that you're feeling about the fact that you have queer sex.

And so if there's any shame underlying the sex, it's gonna show up here. And so, you know, I think looking at that, and Todd Barat, I forget the name of his book, but he talks about queer shame and masturbating. And oftentimes queer folks will masturbate like in very secret, like in the bathroom

or the door close or in the dark. And that's why I'm saying, like, make it an event. Like, open the environment up. Do it in your bedroom. Music, loud noises, like, really allow yourself to discover, as opposed to feeling it needs to be this thing that you're ashamed of. Get animalistic. Yes.

Get feral with it. Love it. Okay. You want to do a profile? I would love to. Okay. So, I'm going to read it to you. Okay.

You've seen it already. Yeah. But I will read it to you. You can pull it up to you. And then I will have it come on to the screen for everybody else. If you're breaking down and the trench, I'd love feedback. After one rocky date followed by a weekend of insane anxious dread over someone I'd only dated a month, I discovered your podcast. It's an exaggeration to say not only did you help me give me the tools to calm my anxious brain, but it genuinely more secure as a person than perhaps ever before in my adult life. I swear I don't write these. I love that. Case in point, the person sent me the, we have a friend vibe text a couple weeks later and I feel fine, not spiraling or taking as his personal. Fuck yeah. I love that. Just grateful for the experience. So I'd love to see what you say. Okay, we have the first photo of him. Uh-huh. Uh, selfie. Then I'm looking for someone I can both yap with.

but also enjoy the quiet time, someone with emotional intelligence and a growth mindset who knows when and when not to take things to seriously. Basically a best friend who I think is hot. Then we have his info, atheist from Fort Worth, liberal, long-term relationship open to short. Okay, we're going to get to that. Then we have selfie at the gym. Then we have him pointing to boxes. I have the slightest idea what we're pointing to. Is it the thermostat or is it a gray?

I don't know. I'll fall for you if you can do that thing where you puff the hair out of your face little mermaid stuff. Puff the hair out of your face, little mermaid. I feel like I should know this. I feel like I don't know this. I'm like, am I a bad millennial? Then we have another one with you and your kitty cat. A life goal of mine fulfill a 12-year-old James'

James' biggest dream and become a published author. Then we have photo and your sneakers. Okay. Put your phone down. Okay. Name three things you remember about his profile and about James in general. Three things I remember about his profile. I remember there was a cat. Okay.

I remember there was a thermostat. And I remember that he wore a hat a lot. Okay. So that's exactly why this profile is not working for James. Yeah. Because there's nothing memorable about it. There was nothing that you're like, oh my God, I remember he said this really awesome thing that I resonated with. Yeah.

It was like even that's the first thing. Off the bat, we have to remember that like, and this isn't about playing a game. This is about the fact that you've got a ton of fucking people. You got package yourself. Yeah, package yourself. Like maybe it's just the two actors and us are like, no, you have to sell yourself. You just love. So off the bat, what are any feedback that you had initially that you want to share before I start fucking going in on poor James?

Well, one thing is take the hat off. The hat really covers your eyes and your face and I'm not dating your hat. I want to be able to see you. Four out of five photos is a hat. Yeah. So, like, that's the thing. Because then that also, it makes me unconsciously think that you're ashamed of your hair or your hairline. And by the way, I love a bald man.

I think a bald man is sexy. And so I'm always like, take the hat. Don't have fish me. Don't have. Yeah. Let me see it. Also, because we don't find out you bald anyway. I don't know if I ever told you or the audience.

Oh, my God. I was maybe, I was 19. Yeah. And this was back in New York in the Lower East Side. I was still grungy and dirty. And there was like this bar in the back of a thing, you know, how New York is. Somehow I found myself there two in the morning with my friends. And there's this Aussie guy.

He was Aussie in New Zealand. I can't remember. Total smoke show. Like, had a style. Was wearing the hat. He had long hair. Really great face. Just a rock and ball.

Like, just I was like feeling him. Yeah. And I remember all my friends were like, get it. And we're making out. And he has. and then all of a sudden he takes the hat off. And I literally audibly gasped. It was nothing at the top besides like two strands of hair covered over and then he had the long hair.

I'm horrified. It was like the serial killer like. You have to shave it all off. It was so bad. And I literally went and gasped because I was like, oh my God. I felt then at that point I just was like, I don't know. And again, no shame. I wish she had taken the hat off.

From the jump. From the jump. And I could have. But I was just so star. And especially with like, I'm talking. If this is gone, I don't know who needs to share this. This also has to go. This is the rest of it.

And you know, it's like the one hair that they come over. And I was like, where are the pedophile glasses that you just like finish the look? If you're not going to turkey tomorrow love, shave it all off. Like I don't know what are we doing? What are we doing? What are we doing? And it's again, no shame if you don't have hair. That's not the point.

I love a bald man. But let's see it. I know. Show it to me from the jump. So I know, because I'm going to see it eventually. And I want to know you're confident about it. Exactly. I was mortified.

We did not go out again after that. And also he was sloppy and it was not cute at the end. And it started to freak me out. He was getting really pushy and I started feeling uncomfortable. And I was like, no, thank you. Also, he's looking down in all his photos. Yes. I need to see your eyes.

They're all, because he's holding a selfie, but it's always looking down. Too many selfies. Too many selfies. First photo being... I know your friends. I know you have, you have friends. You have friends. They have taken photos for you.

And I, the first one being a selfie is not because I can't connect with you. And then I'm like, oh, you're taking too many photos of yourself. Yes. Then, okay, let's go into prompts. Okay. I'm looking for someone, I'm looking for, I really struggle with the I'm looking for because my issue with a lot of these, Ryan, and I talk about this all the time, people are really bad at self-identifying.

And so then you're telling me all of these things I need to be, but I don't know who the fuck you are. Who are you? Who are you? Oh, that's good. That's good. So I'm looking for someone I can both yap with, but also enjoy the quiet with, someone with emotional intelligence and a growth mindset who knows when and when not to take things too seriously.

Basically a best friend who I think is hot. What are your thoughts on that? Who is that? Yeah, exactly. Who is that? Does this person exist? Like, yeah, but like, we all want a hot best friend. Like, whatever. Like, tell me something specific. I don't know. And then someone with emotional intelligence and growth mindset,

most people are not that advanced to be able to be like, that's me. Yeah. You know what I see here all the fucking time? I see this on dating profiles and it drives me insane. I'm looking for someone secure. And it's like, first of all, most people believe they're secure. Very few people are being like, I'm an avoiding piece of shit who's going to fucking waste your time and string you along. Or I'm so anxious.

I can't sit. Still, most people want to identify as secure. So saying that that's what it is that you're looking for completely takes away the fact that this person's probably going to disappoint you. Or I'm looking for someone that wants a relationship. Okay, everybody says that, right? Most people are saying that. And it's the same way, because it's funny, we had a quiz on the website, which we redid, so go take it.

And I redid it because it was like 95% of people were identifying as secure. Ah. And I was like, I know you're not. I know you're not. Absolutely that. And the reason being is because when I started to look at the questions and the way that we had done this, I was like, this is what you aspire to be, but you're not being honest about who you actually are. Where you are right now.

So that's my first thing. Then we go into long-term relationship open to short. To me, fuckboy central. That's the bald and the hair. Like, you're in between something. Like, what's happening? Do you want long term or do you open short? Like, what's happening?

One of the other. And I'm not saying James is a fuck-boy, but that's the fuck-boy behavior. You see of like, oh, I won't look, but I'm open to short. It's like, I'm sure you are. I'm sure you are. We are open to a hookups love. Exactly. All of us are, what I would say is like long-term relationship, and maybe you can put in of like want to make, like not looking to get married tomorrow, but I want to make sure that we align. Sure.

Then on the date, you can be honest with someone and go, hey, I don't feel a long-term connection. I would much prefer maybe a casual thing. Are you open to that? You'd be surprised how many people will be like, yeah. I'm cool with that. Who doesn't want to get laid? I mean, it depends on if you like the person. That's fair. That's fair. There's the gay community coming out of you. You're like, yeah, we're going to.

We're going to do. And then the girls are like, no, no, no, no, no. No, not me. Not me. You're right. You're right. So then we go into Jim selfie. Same thing. It's a gym selfie. It's not really showing me. I haven't the slightest idea what he's pointing at. This is what I'm saying. You need friends. Oh, I guess this one is somebody took a photo of it. Someone did, but you're pointing at a white wall or a great board's covered by boxes so then we don't know the context. Okay. Yeah.

I'll fall for you. You can do that thing where you puff the hair out of your face a little more made-up. I mean, unless you're going for a specific demographic who that would mean something to and that's like your like cheat code. I don't know. That better be a non-negotiable. Yeah, yeah. Then we go into the photo of you and the cat. I hope that's your cat. Yes.

Otherwise, it's... Otherwise, it's... Otherwise, it's wrong. The cat girls are going to be like, I'm offended. Life goal of mind, fulfilled 12-year-old James' biggest dream and become a published author. Give me... Because, okay, here's a thing. But what do you do you do?

What do you do? Then we have a picture of your converse. Don't know. Don't need that. And then we have a photo of you at Rockefeller Center. Okay, fine. That's the only one I can finally see you. Yeah.

I know absolutely nothing about you besides that you want to, you like the Little Mermaid, maybe a weird fetish, I don't know, do you like a redhead? And that you want cute, and that you have a life goal of becoming an author. But you know what the problem with this profile? What it does is it makes the onus all in the person trying to match with you. Yes. Right? You haven't offered anything.

Your profile needs to be a little more vulnerable, quite honestly. Like if you're trying to find a long-term relationship, it's going to require a little more vulnerability. You need to share a little bit more about yourself, which he hasn't done. I don't know what he does for work. I don't know what his favorite movie is. Maybe he's The Little Mermaid. Which tea work?

Because he's not. Get it? I don't know like what even like where he lives, I mean I know where he lives, but even like the backgrounds of the photos. Like what are you actually into? Like are you into hiking? Are you into camping? Are you into karaoke? Like show me you.

Also show me you enjoy. I don't know about. Gays have this problem. Everyone wants to pose. I want to see you enjoy. Like if this is a sex app, fine. Pose for me. But if we're supposed to date, I want to see what.

I want to see you laughing. I want to see you smiling. I want to know you're not a killer. Which we talked about offline because we were talking about not wanting to date or marry serial killers because they exist. They do exist. And people, that great talk, shall have married. Thanks for the documentary. Netflix, he gave us more to talk about.

Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing I see with dating profiles is like, I remember when I had mine. I had my one of depth to see who could align. And then I had the sign of a great first date. It actually happens not looking for a pen pal or a hookup. And so it was like, okay, put my clear. And then it was like, one thing about me that you should know about is I eat dinner to get a dessert and snacks are a must. What's in your bag? The specificity of that, I want.

I always say I love a chocolate chip cookie, a non-negotiable. Very specific and also fun and silly. Then I can go, where are we getting one? First date, you want to go get a chocolate. That was one member we talked online about when I saw Nick Kroll at a restaurant. It was because a guy took me to a dessert restaurant. And I was like, I don't remember being like, what a sign. I saw my favorite actor.

It wasn't a sign. Don't worry. He lasted two months and goes out. And then I met Ryan. So it was a time. There you go. It was like a pre premonition. Yeah.

That wasn't for me. But I remember that because the amount of guys and straight heterosexual woman that would respond back and be like, oh, have you had this? Have you? Because I was giving them something to start a conversation with. Yes. I wasn't it making, like, I don't know about you. But when I try to hit on people in the wild, I would struggle because you're like, all right, he's wearing all black. He's wearing Nike.

I know. There's, like, nothing on him. He's wearing black. And so you go up and you're like, where'd you get those? And they're like, really hard. Black vans. And you're like, babe, I'm trying to get in here. You ain't giving me another work with.

Or then they like, look at you like, you have three heads. Like, I was a guy on the train. And I remember I had to, I was like, where'd you get that shirt from? I was like, it's my brother's birthday. I wanted to get him one. And the guy was like, like, stumbled and put his headphone back in. And I was like, it's like direct communication I can't. No, and you're like, okay.

And so that's the thing is like, all of this fetish. of I want to meet somebody in person. I don't want to meet them on a dating app. Well, then, baby, you need to be okay getting rejected in person. Yes. You need to be okay with someone telling you to your face I'm not interested

or I have a girlfriend or boyfriend or no thank you. I wish I had that stamina. I want that armor. Because I think that there's a lost art in hitting on people in person, which I can do after a couple margaritas. I really can. I'm a great.

After a couple margaritas, baby, I got this. I'm good at doing it if you are in my proximity. So like, if we weren't standing next to each other in line. Like, I remember once during COVID, I turned around and I was like, huh, the line on this place, huh? I just didn't say anything and looked at me and I was like, okay. And I just was like, I'll just go fuck myself and I just turned around.

But you have to be okay with that. Yes. That somebody is going to look at you and say, no, thank you. Yeah. So if you want to fetish eyes and say, I don't want to be in a dating app, that's fine, boo. You choose you. But then be okay with someone in person telling you no, be okay with people rejecting you and be okay with walking home and saying that didn't work out. That doesn't mean that it's not for you.

That just means that that person wasn't for you. So if you want to say that dating apps are trash and all this, bitch, Who do you think these people are? The same people out in the public are the same people on a fucking dating app. One thousand percent. I remember I have fetishized the story of the guy I've told the audience

about this a million times. This guy that was from Utah and we met out at a workout class. And then I saw the month worker on Hinge like a week later and I was like, okay. So I thought this whole cute meeting. I was like, but I would have met him online anyways. Like it was the same thing.

And so I don't want people to have the polarity. Like you're allowed to meet anybody anywhere, whether it be field or Hinge or Bumble or E-Harmine or I don't give a fuck. However you connect is how you connect. How you just be okay. with that not everybody is out there looking for what you're looking for. And not being compatible has nothing to do with your worth. It's not a reflection of your worth.

No. If we're not compatible, we're not compatible. It doesn't mean I need to go change myself now. I see that all the time where people get out of a relationship and now they feel like they've got to fix themselves. And it's like, no, you just weren't compatible. Take ownership of what you need to take ownership for. Absolutely. Right?

Like if I'm a mental case that's screaming at my partner and a T. T.J. Max because I didn't get my way, go to therapy. That's you, babe. But if it's just like, hey, this. person came to me and said they want an open relationship. That doesn't mean I'm not enough for them. That just means that maybe this just isn't right for them. This isn't their dynamic for them. Doesn't mean that down the street, there's not a person who is fucking grateful the fact that I exist. Yes. Love this. Brandon, you and I could fucking talk forever. All day. All day. Where can people

find you? I'm obsessed with a cheetah. Is it a cheetah? It is. She's something. I love her. Thank you. She's my girl. I was about to say so I'll get canceled if I say that. She's my girl. She's your girl. Yes. Where can people find you if they want to connect. They can find me on Instagram at Brana Call Goodman. They can find me my website, brandicawgoodman.com, or my podcast. Tell me something messy, which is out every Thursday. I love it. Guys, don't forget.

Follow. Go follow. Go check out of stuff. I was on his podcast. It was fabulous. Check on that episode. That's so good. Guys, thank you so much for sitting with us.

I hope that anybody that listened today got something out of this because no matter who you are, where you are, what you are. You deserve love like the rest of us. So I fucking love you. Guys, don't forget to rate and review. Share this with a friend that you think it would be helpful. for and I will see you guys next week. Bye.