The Sabrina Zohar Show - 31: Limerence in dating and dating multiple people

Episode Date: August 18, 2023

On this weeks episode of The Sabrina Zohar Show, Sabrina goes over what is limerence and the pros of dating multiple people early on in dating! Shop softwear and get 20% off with code DOTHEWORK HERE Want to work with Sabrina? HERE! Stuck After the Podcast? Master Implementation in 8 Weeks with Sabrina's Foundation Course Join the Make It Make Sense: Getting Through a Breakup course HERE! Get Ad-free episodes and 2 Bonus episodes a month HERE! Dont forget to follow Sabrina and The Sabrina Zohar Show on instagram and Sabrina on Tik tok! Video now available on YOUTUBE!  Disclaimer: The Sabrina Zohar Show, formally known as Do The Work, is not affiliated with A.Z & associates LLC in any capacity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to another episode of Do the Work podcast. My name is Sabrina Zohar and I am your host. Guys, I am so excited for another solo episode. This week, I decided it was time. We needed to talk about limerence. What is limerence? How can you identify it?

What does it actually mean? It is a very controversial topic just because it's not really, the term isn't, hasn't been studied as well, but nonetheless, we're going to fucking go with it. And the benefit of dating multiple people, or at least in my opinion, the benefit of it. and how you can kind of navigate that. So I'm so excited.

Guys, I think this episode was really, really incredible. As always, if you guys ever need anything, link in bio or link in the show notes, you can find me. And if you need anything, you know it's always there. So without further ado, let's get right on into it. Guys, we're back for another solo episode. Solo episodes are my favorite. And I am so excited.

I'm so excited to have you guys here. I'm so excited to be able to talk about all of these amazing things. And as always, thank you to everybody for supporting the, podcast. Thank you for sharing with your friends. Thank you for everybody who has given a five-star review. It seriously means the world. You literally don't know how much it means to me. Thank you for everyone for following on socials. Everything. I just can't thank you guys enough. As always, as you guys know, everything will always be in the show notes. If you want to work with me one on one, you want me and tech guy to do your dating app audits, anything you ever fucking need.

You can always find it there. And guys, you know what? One thing I actually haven't mentioned that most of you guys don't even know, I have a clothing line called software. And you guys get 20% off if you use the code do the work. So software will be also linked to the show notes. And, you know, it's my first baby. And most people don't even know I started that after I almost lost my mom. My mom went to the doctor with a headache and they found six brain aneurysms that grew to the top half of her vessel. And I started the company after because I wanted to bring something back to the world. So super excited. But anyways, that's enough about that. Let's get into what are we going to talk about this week? What is up for discussion this week? And that is something that you guys request all the fucking time,

which is limerence. I know. that there's a lot of controversy around this word. I've seen there's one very, very rude therapist that she's just knocking everybody down, but she kind of tore my friend apart for using it saying, well, this isn't a studied enough term and yada, yada, yada. Nonetheless, though, since there has been a definition that has been given to limerence, what is it? It's an intense and an involuntary emotional state that is literally infatuation and an obsession about somebody. So what happens is it's not just like a regular attraction. This isn't just, oh, I like this person.

It's intrusive thoughts. It's preoccupation. It's like you hyper focus on this person all the fucking time. It's an immense, it can often lead to like an immense emotional codependency. Because what happens is you don't really know this person. You are literally becoming enamored with the idea of who they are and your fucking brain. Listen, our brain is an incredible creature. our brain can take something and make something out of nothing.

I've seen it. I've done it. I've lived it. And what happens with limerence is you can meet somebody. And because they check some very shallow boxes, all of a sudden, your brain is going into this entire romanticized version of who they are. And it's creating this entire fantasy. And could you imagine what the kids would be like?

And, oh, they traveled to Paris. I want to go to Paris. Oh, they've been here. And it literally, it's a trick in your mind that happens with Lillmer. Limerance. Now, as always, Mama has had very personal experience with this. And I'll never forget. It was, I've had many experiences of this. And it really, Limerance really does stem from trauma. Could be the little tease, but a lot of usually anxious attaches, my peeps. This is something that we really have and we struggle with often because with anxious attaches, a lot of it is the

idealization. It's a lot of what this could be and the fantasy and feeling like you need to be rescued and that there's always somebody that's going to come and get you. So when you meet somebody, of course, oftentimes we want to just have it done. Oh, everything's fine. We're good. Everything's great. You know, this is the person for me, but we don't really know this person. And I remember when I first moved to Venice, this is a story that really sticks out for me. When I first moved to Venice, there was this guy and I would see him around all the time with his dog and homeboy was, he was cute. By no means was he like the fucking hottest thing since sliced bread, but he was a cutie pie. And I would see him all the time and I kind of just like scoffed it off whatever. And how am I going to talk to this guy? And then I think

I'd seen him at the gym and I think I had seen him on hinge. And I was like, oh, this is this guy. And he put his Instagram handle. And so when I found him, he had like millions of followers and I was like, oh, okay, this is like somebody legit. And so I slid right on into his DMs. I have no fucking shame. And I was just like, oh, it's you. Like I joke because I was like, we see each other time. I was like, it's you. I see you on this one street all the time. And he's like, oh, yeah, I have seen you. Like great, great to connect.

And we started chatting. And I remember telling my friend, like, we had made plans. It was one of those, like, we made tentative plans. And he kept doing, we'll see, maybe soon. I'll let you know. And I was just kind of like, God, fucking shit. What was going on with this guy? And I remember I was at this dinner.

And I was telling my friend, yeah, I'm going to go out with this one guy. And he was like, yeah, good luck if he actually even makes the fucking plan. He's like, that dude's notorious for like bopping out and not really committing to things. And so, of course, what happened to my anxious brain? And it was, oh, challenge fucking accepted. This was great. Now I can prove myself to this person.

Now I can show them who I am. Now I can get them to like me. Oh my God. And if he comes and hangs out with me already, here we go, idealizing in full effect. And so we had plans for Thursday. And I remember telling my friend, I was like, oh, my God, I really hope they happened. Sure enough. Thursday rolled around.

Homeboy, you know, confirm the plans. He's like, hey, do you still want to do tonight? You want to grab dinner? Great. And I was like, sure, pick me up in my house. I had known him. We had a bunch of mutual friends. so it wasn't as weird for him to pick me up down the street for me.

Like this was somebody that was very, very, very, like in my circle. He was not a stranger. And so I was like, here's share, come pick me up. And I was with my friends. He came and picked me up at this restaurant, like, this bar right by my house. And I was like, oh, my God, here we go. And I remember, like, the minute he picked me up, you could feel it. Like, my entire body was like all these tingling sensations.

And it was the type of thing that it was like the peanuts. Like, wah, wah, wah, wah. Like, it was me just becoming like, I couldn't. even like sit with him because I was so enamored with him and I was so anxious and nervous and all of these things. I was like, oh. And we went to dinner and I remember like we actually had some really good conversation. And that's what I think bumped me out more than anything was like I remember us just sitting there. And of course, we walked in. Everybody knew who he was and gave him the big hugs. And in my head, I'm already like, I am the queen of this fucking castle and I'm walking in with

this total babe. And of course I felt very seen heard understood. I felt very wanted. And I think that's really kind of all a lot of people want is just to feel want. wanted to feel needed to feel that importance. And I felt that. The date went on. And I remember he drove me home. And I was so excited. And he just was like, all right, well, good night. And I was kind of like, really? That's it? Like, okay. Sure. And so when he dropped me off and I just remember turning to him and I was like, man, I want to kiss you. And he was like, fucking do it. And I just went in for it. And he had this amazing little kiss. And I went, I got home and I remember he texted me after. That was really fun. I'm glad we did that. It was really great to have met you.

something like that. And I was like, oh my God, me too. I had such a great time. And I already in my head, we were married and had kids. Like that was it. I was idealizing him. I was checking my phone every five seconds. And I remember the next day going to the gym and kind of looking for him and like, of course, finding his ex on Instagram and seeing her and being like, oh, well, I'm prettier. Like I wasn't. It has nothing to do with it. She was fucking gorgeous. And she was incredible. What a beautiful woman. But to make myself feel better, I did what girls do. And I talked myself up and I remember like, I didn't hear from him that day. And I was, was with my friend and we were walking and I was like, I don't understand, but he didn't text me.

And my friend was like, dude, you got to fucking relax. He was like, you literally don't know this guy. You met him last night. Fucking chill. And I saw, then the next day I saw him walking down the street and he was like, hey, what's up? He's like, and he was getting all flirty. He's like, ooh, I love those leggings. He's touching my leg. I was fucking like enamored with this person. I, even to this day, I remember my friends were like, he looks like a rat, an oversized rat. Like, what are you so fucking. by this guy, there is nothing redeeming about him. He's a fuck boy. And he definitely proved himself to be that because then I found out after talking to a mutual friend that she had hooked up with him and he had told her he wasn't dating anybody else and she came over one night. And a few nights later, she came over and saw another woman's earrings on the nightstand. So Homeboy absolutely was,

in fact, seeing multiple women. And it became just like this running joke. And sure enough, as the days went on, he would text me and every time he would text me, I would always think like, oh my God, could this be it? Could this be it? And it wasn't. He was just bored being like, what are you doing at 7 a.m. And I was like, I'm working. Like, or 8 a.m.

I'd be like, I'm on my way to work. Like, I'll be home in an hour. You can hang out then. Oh, well, no, too late. And I just like, everything was according to him. Anytime I would say, do you want to hang out, it would always be, we'll see. Maybe. I don't know.

I don't know. I'll let you know. Moral of the story was, this motherfuckerucker was clearly just wasting my time. And I was so enamored. I like couldn't get over him. I would post all these thirst traps trying to get him to pay attention to me. That's limerence at its finest. There was no redeeming qualities about this person.

There was nothing about this guy that was like, oh, my God, what an incredible human being. He's so vulnerable and open and communicative. And he makes me feel so seen hurt and understood. I feel so safe with this person. Nah, no, no, no, none of that existed. This was purely me being infatuated and obsessed with the idea of this person. And more often than not babies, that's really what I get when a lot of you. you guys will write in. A lot of you guys are right in of like, oh, you know, this guy is so

amazing. I'm so in a way. I can't get over them. I can't get over them. I can't get over them. And then when I'm like, how many times have you seen them once? And it's like, we can't create, we can't become so in love with the idea of somebody that when they show us who they really are, we refuse to accept that. Because what's super important, and I think that's the biggest kind of lesson when it comes to limerence is that it's not about the version of who people would like you to see. It's not about the version of who they want you to fall in love with. It's about actually seeing somebody for who the fuck they are. So what are some symptoms, if you will? What are some key things to look out for to know it's limerance? And so that is constant, constant, incessant thinking about

them. I'm not talking about when you meet somebody and oh my God, you had a really great time and you liked them and you had a really nice rapport and, okay, we're going to see if this goes anywhere. And you know, and you think of them, you smile and shit like that. Not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is that, like, you can't get throughout your day without thinking of them. There is heightened emotional responses to their actions. Like one text and it's the end of the fucking world. You text them and you haven't heard from them and it's gave over. There is a constant fear of rejection or fear of being separated.

More than just, okay, well, yeah, that would suck. Like, you know, nobody wants to test, quote unquote, feel rejected. But as we've spoken about many a times over, rejection is a lot less personal than you think. rejection often has nothing to actually fucking do with who you are as a person and has to do with the fact that maybe that person just like wasn't picking up what you're putting down. Maybe that person just wasn't interested in somebody with your background or ethnicity or race or whatever the fuck it is. They didn't want.

I've had guys tell me that they didn't like brunettes. They liked blondes instead. You know, like there's a million reasons. But if you're so, if you're crippled and paralyzed by that fear of rejection, that is when we start to go and say, this isn't healthy. This isn't healthy. because the emotional roller coaster that limerence gives you can feel euphoric. It can feel mind-blowing.

It can feel like the most incredible highs and lows. But when the feelings are not reciprocated and when that person isn't picking up what you're putting down, that's when this feels catastrophic. And that's when it feels like your entire self-worth is tied into this person. When the reality is you literally don't know this person. You don't. And so like, can it be positive? Sure, the positive, I mean, this is us like really fucking gripping at straws here.

The positive component, if you will, of this is that, sure, it can make you feel like, wow, okay, I can feel like this about somebody. You know, like, oh, wow, that makes me feel really nice. Like it, it makes me, you know, have hope again that I can feel something for somebody else. But the problem is the negative aspect is incredibly taxing emotionally for you. Limerance is exhausting because you're so hyper-focused on somebody else and what they're doing and what's going on and how are they feeling and where are they going and what are they doing and what are they going to call me and that's fucking tiring. It's exhausting, especially when it's unbalanced

because there's so such an overwhelming focus on the person that is the object of your limerence that one, it stops you from making proper decisions. It stops you from seeing red flags. It stops you from making any determinations about if this person's actually good for you. And what the biggest impact, I think it also has is it stops you from allowing other people into your life because you're so enamored by this one person. And then what happens? If it's not reciprocated, then the self-esteem starts to get tied in. Then the self-esteem starts to wear in. And then all of a sudden you start to put yourself down and you start to question yourself and you start to.

And that's why I want you guys to go slow. And it's not about, I get this all the time. Like I met this person. They were perfect and they're amazing. And it's like off the bat, that's the first. first place, I'll be like, nope, bullshit. I call bullshit. Because nobody is the end all be all. Nobody is the most amazing creature that you've ever seen. I love my partner and he still has a lot of flaws. So do I. As much as I'd love to say, I'm perfect. I am most certainly not. Not even

fucking close. And so I think what was interesting was I kind of wanted to look up like what happens to the brain during limerence. And I found this study that was done. And I was, and of course I can't remember where I found it from because this is what happens. I gather all this fucking information and then I forget to cite it. This is also, I dropped out of college, so didn't really write a lot of our papers, didn't really cite things. But I was looking into the neuroscience of this. And during limerence, the chemicals that surge are dopamine, neuropronephrine, and serotonin.

Those are all things. So dopamine is associated with pleasure and reward. That's why when the minute you get the text best, you feel like you've been rewarded and pleasure. And it creates a feeling of excitement. And same with neuropronephrine and serotonin. It's like these are neurotransmitters that oftentimes as we get older, as we've experienced things, we can start to lose a lot of these neurotransmitters.

That's why you'll hire SSRIs, antidepressants and things like that. But it doesn't always necessarily mean that you have a deficit of them. It's just that they might not be firing as often. And so that's why this like neurochemical little. chemical that has happened reinforces the positive about the person. So the second you get that, that immediacy, you get that text from them, you get that availability from them, you get anything from them. You get a fucking morsel of a crumb. Oh my God, that's it. And the next thing you know, you're fucking obsessing. And it's important to also understand like, listen, we're biological creatures,

right? We're looking for a mate. That is part of our design. That is part of our survival. That is part of literally how we were created. We can try to say anything that we want. right now, but that is biology. And so it really, when it comes to limerance, it can make you feel like, oh my God, I found my person and I found my this and oh my God, this is it. And it's going to be amazing. And we're going to run off into the sunset. But it's, it's not. It's tricking you into thinking that because you don't fucking know who the person is. You don't know who this person is. Now let's chat really quickly. Something that I know I'm going to get next is, well, how can I tell the difference if it's limerence or if it's genuine attraction or love? That's a question. That's a

I love because there's a big difference. And the biggest difference to me off the bat is really, I always say the pinch has to match the edge. It's the amount of intensity and obsession that you have with this person based on the amount that you've known them. So think about it. If you have this person running through your fucking mind all day and you are, you are literally, it's interfering with your day to day to where like, I've gotten it. I used to be that girl who are like, I couldn't function. I'd be like, I can't take a meeting. I can't take a call. I can't leave my house. I was so in my head. I was so hyper-focused on what was going on with the other person that I lost myself. And you lose sight of who you are. And when you lose sight of who you are and you're so

obsessed with somebody else, what happens? You start to self-abandon. You start to overlook a lot of things and you start to really not, you just, you stop taking care of yourself in the ways that you need to be taking care of yourself. The difference here is genuine love can have strong feelings, but it's more balanced. It's both people are still living their lives. They're not completely enamored with the other person. It's not that the other person is the center of your universe. It's also that you know that that person, you feel secure.

You know that that person's not going to go anywhere. You know that that person is there for you. You know that that is your support system and you know that that is somebody that is in your corner. As opposed to limerence, you might even fucking know this person. And yes, limerance can absolutely happen as you're in relationships and can perpetuate while you're in relationships. But eventually, you know, the rose-colored glasses have to come off.

Eventually, you've got to see a flag for its color and not look at them all of them with it's the same. So also, idealization. People that experience limerence idealize the person that they're feeling this for. And so they literally put them on a pedestal. They perceive them as perfect. And remember, what happens when you put somebody in a pedestal? You are reliving that child's parent dynamic.

and what you're saying is, well, you have more value than I do. And so when you put the person that you have limerance on a pedestal, you are saying, well, you're better than me. You have more worth than me. You are, I just, you idealize them as the person you might want to become even. But genuine love acknowledges and knows that somebody has positive and negative features. There is nobody in this planet that is perfect. So understanding the difference between those two that you can love somebody, but they might,

you're not idealizing them by being in a relationship with them versus limerance. So dependency on the reciprocity. That has to be another huge one. Limerance is literally dependent on the reciprocity and the reciprocation of feelings for the other person. So when somebody is in limerence, they could feel elevated. Like when they get the text back or the person makes time for them or they want to see them, oh my God, it's euphoric. It literally feels like the most incredible experience.

But then they're devastated when that person doesn't share the same. level of interest. Genuine love isn't feeling that. Genuine love isn't about the highs and the lows. It can withstand challenges and it doesn't require that immediate reciprocation from that person. Just because you text somebody doesn't mean that within the five seconds you need to fucking hear back from that.

And it's just such an emotional roller coaster. And I think that's the one thing. It causes like heart rate increase, sweating, fucking trembling, nausea. intense anxiety, baby, that's not, that's not, quote unquote, healthy. And so I really want to make sure that we understand the signs of limerence and what to look out for. And if somebody that you know is somebody that is preoccupied essentially with somebody else, they're neglecting their own life, they're constantly seeking validation from other people, they are not able to focus on anything.

if someone is like that, it's really, really important to try at the very least, and if this is yourself, to fucking snap the fuck out of it. I get it. I totally understand. You get the dopamine pleasure and reward. You're getting that neuropronephrine, which is the body's fight or flight. So when you get it, you feel safer. That's why you feel that heightened arousal.

You get that excitement. Your body's going into fight or flight. You're feeling that. You're like, oh, my God, are they going to come back? and then you get the safety when they come back, and then it goes back into the unknown, and you're back into the butterflies and the increased heart weight and the sweating.

No. And serotonin, it regulates mood. That's, again, why that's what happens. But what was interesting was I was reading in the study, and they say oftentimes serotonin may decrease. And they say that during limerence, it decreases because of the obsession of the thoughts that are experiences in the limerent state.

that's where that obsession starts to come in. So it's interesting. You can also get oxytocin. There's a whole, it's a multitude of things that happen when you're feeling limerence. But I think it's just really important to be able to differentiate between, is this a real connection or am I fucking obsessed with this person? Do you put them on a pedestal? Do you think that they're the end all be all?

Do you think that you can't live your life without them? Because spoiler alert, yes, you fucking can. As I always say, you were good before these people. You will be good after. which is also the reason I'm such a big proponent of dating multiple people at the same time. I am not saying fucking multiple people. I am not saying that you need to date 30 people. They need to date a brigade.

I am just saying that just because you have one good date with somebody doesn't mean that you need to be exclusive with them or rush into exclusivity. One good date just means great. I'd love to see them again. And if not, that's okay too. Either way, I will be okay. But when you date multiple people, you're one, you don't hyperfocus on one person. you are allowing yourself to meet different walks of life, to meet different kinds of people.

It builds your confidence to see, oh, wow, look at all these people that like me. Look at all these dates I can have. Amazing. It avoids dependency because you're dating multiple people at the same time. You're finding what works for you. So you're going to tell me you're compatible with every single person that you go on a date with? That just because a guy might be tall and attractive, all of a sudden, you're compatible with this person? just so you know, you know what the first thing to fucking fade in relationships is,

the looks. That's the first thing to go because that becomes baseline. At first, that might be so intoxicating and that can aid in the limerence, especially when that's like this person's well established, they're handsome, they're successful, da, da, da, they've got all these great qualities. But you don't really know who this person is. And I think that's really the difference between a real love or a real connection with somebody is you've seen other parts of them.

And when we're so obsessed with the idea of somebody and when you're only dating one person at a time, babes, I was going to waste your fucking time. I'm sorry, I'm in my 30s. I wasn't going to just date one person at a time and sit here and fucking hope for the best by having some schmose coming in and out. No, I was diversifying my portfolio.

I would go on three, four dates a week. In New York, I was on fucking 10 dates a week. I was out there. Not because I was wanting to, I didn't sleep with most of these people, but because I wanted to make sure, that I was taking care of myself as well. When I felt burned out, I didn't go on more dates. When I started to see, all right, dude, you are fucking hyper-focusing.

You're obsessed with this person. You're checking your phone 400 times an hour just to see if they've even fucking responded to your message. You don't know this person. I had to call myself out on my shit. And I think that's also a big component of anybody that's experience in limerence, you got to get good at calling yourself out. I'm not going to be with you every day.

You're friends, your family, your therapist, you're this, you're that. They're not with you every fucking day. They can't be responsible for calling you on your shit or being able to be there and support every time. Eventually, we got to put our adult pants on and say, I need to take care of myself. I have to parent myself in the ways that nobody parented me. Aha, how amazing inner child work really comes full circle. So that if you can start showing up for yourself, then you stop requiring other people to

have to show up in order to feel validated. You start to feel accepted, seen, heard, and understood by yourself so that you know that if you're obsessed with somebody or you have the idea of someone, you can stop and say, whoa, whoa, okay, I'm doing it again. It's okay. This person sounds really great. They sound really shiny. They sound really awesome. It's all right. I got this. I don't know this person. I have to be realistic about the fact that I've barely spent any time with them. I always ask, do I know how they fight? No. Do I know how they are out in public? Not really. I've only had a couple interactions. Do I know. what their, how do they live day to day? No. What is their relationship? How are they with

their family, friends? How are they with colleagues? What are they like when they're out in fucking public all the time? Have you gone grocery shopping? Have you done errands? Have you traveled with this person? No, you don't know any of these things about this person. And so that was always my way to stop myself and say, okay, so then what am I so enamored by? And if I just go, I don't know, I don't know. It was like, no, I did know. It was the idea of them. It was what I wanted them to be. It was the projection of what I thought they were going to be. It was the fact that that person embodied all of these characteristics that I didn't fucking embody myself,

if we're going to call it what it is. I idealized them because I felt like I could never be that or that I couldn't achieve that kind of success or I couldn't love myself in the ways that I thought this person could love me. And so then an obsession starts to happen because you become so hyper-focused on that high and feeling the need to feel saved and somebody's always there and they're going to validate you.

but the reality and the very harsh reality is that nobody is going to come and save you besides yourself. Nobody's going to do this for you and nobody is going to put the work in just like you are. I could have the most secure and incredible partner in front of you. It doesn't mean that they're going to be able to do that. And so that's also why I'm such a big proponent of dating multiple people at the same time is so that you don't just become enamored with one and you start to learn more about yourself. What are my boundaries, non-negotiables? What am I willing to put up with? what are things I like or don't like? What are different personality types?

And starting to see. Because if you look at somebody, I've had people right in and they're like, this person's perfect. And I'm like, off the bat, you're full of shit. No one's perfect. So if you're looking and saying, oh my God, but no, this person's,

they're amazing. They're everything I've ever wanted. It's like, well, then you don't know them well enough. You only know the idea of who they want you to see. That's a harsh reality, babes. You know, I love you. And I give it to you. But that's it for today, my friends.

we went over limerence, we went over how it goes in your brain, we went over dating multiple people. I think at this point now, there is no more accepting the breadcrumbs of this bullshit. Just because somebody seems really great to on paper, but isn't treating you in a way that you deserve doesn't mean that you need to still keep them on that pedestal. Eventually, knock them the fuck down and take that power and take that control back into your life to say, I put you up there, I can take you right back down. You are not anything real. I put the shine on.

I got to take that off. And I know it might sound, how do I do that? You can. But again, you got to call yourself out on your shit. You got to be really realistic. We can't idealize here anymore. It's not working for us. So, friends, that was another awesome fucking episode.

Thank you again for everything. As always, if you need anything, link in the show notes. You can always ask me a question, book a one-on-one, work with me directly. Just listen to the podcast more since we're here. You can listen to all the episodes. And like I always say, please don't forget to leave a five-star review if you think it's worth it. If you don't, that's okay. Just don't leave a fucking review.

But I love you guys so much. And until next time, we will chat soon. Ciao for now.