The Sabrina Zohar Show - 39: How to get ‘unstuck’ with Neuropsychotherapist Britt Frank!

Episode Date: October 13, 2023

On This week Episode Sabrina is joined by Neuropsychotherapist Britt Frank! Britt and Sabrina chat about what it means to feel 'stuck', how the brain reacts to being stuck and how to navigate the feelings and get unstuck! Get Britts book HERE! Want to work with Sabrina? HERE! Stuck After the Podcast? Master Implementation in 8 Weeks with Sabrina's Foundation Course Join the Make It Make Sense: Getting Through a Breakup course HERE! Get Ad-free episodes and 2 Bonus episodes a month HERE! Dont forget to follow Sabrina and The Sabrina Zohar Show on instagram and Sabrina on Tik tok! Video now available on YOUTUBE!  Disclaimer: The Sabrina Zohar Show, formally known as Do The Work, is not affiliated with A.Z & associates LLC in any capacity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Great news. The federal EV rebate is back. Eligible customers get up to $5,000 with the federal EVAP rebate on select 2027 Volt and 2026 Equinox EV models. Visit your local Chevrolet dealer today for more details. Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to another episode of Do the Work podcast. My name is Sabrina Zohar, and I am your host. Guys, this week we have Britt Frank, and I honestly, I fucking love her. She is so much fun. we talk about how to get unstuck with neuropsychotherapist, Britt Frank. And for those of you who haven't read her book, The Science of Stuck, I finished it a couple of weeks ago, and I was obsessed. She took such complicated, complex terminology and understanding about the brain and neuroplasticity and anxiety and really made it digestible and understandable to somebody that may have no idea what she's talking about or somebody who's more educated and has a lot more knowledge on it. So I'm super, super excited.

And I can't wait. I hope you guys love today's episode. I know there is a lot going on in the world right now. I am feeling it and I am here for you and I am loving all of you and I want to make sure that everybody feels welcomed. I don't care who you are, where you're from, what you believe in, even if we have conflicting beliefs. I can hold space for anybody and everybody and I sure hope that you can reciprocate that. And that is why I will never push my beliefs onto people because I can believe that and

I can have my own thoughts, but that doesn't mean everybody has to agree with me. And that's okay. And so I hope that with everything, forget just what's happening in the world, with everything we talk about on this podcast. that you can come with an open heart, an open mind, and receptivity to just hear another thought process. Even if you walk away and say, I still don't agree, that is okay. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to share things with you and help in my way, even if you're not ready to receive it. That is okay and vice versa. I will always hold space for you guys and I am just so grateful and so

excited. And don't forget to show our sponsor some love. As always, if you need anything for me at all, the link in my bio will take you to work with me one-on-one, ask a question, and Tech I and are doing dating app audit. And of course, don't forget to do the survey slash by the time this comes out in January, the dating app that's coming out. We need your help. And I'm just so grateful for you guys. I'm so grateful for you guys.

I'm so grateful to have a space to be able to just be me unapologetically and welcome you guys to do the same. Like I said, it doesn't matter what your race, religion, color, I don't give a flying fuck. As long as you come with an open heart, I'm here to receive you and give that back. So without further ado, let's get right the fuck on into it. I'm excited to help you. Oh my gosh, I've been looking forward to this. Thank you so much for having me on. Bye. Yay.

I know. It's so fun when we get to like when you schedule these in advance and then the day comes and you're like, oh my God, it's like going to prom. I'm so exciting. It really is. Like, like, like, oh, my God. No, it's going to be great. I know. I'm like, is it I do my hair okay?

But I'm so excited. I know, you know, when I kind of ran across your profile and I saw, first of all, the book, the science is stuck and started looking into it. I was like, holy shit. This is what I try to bring on do the work is like all the parts of the puzzle that are missing because it's like I personally, I don't, I'm not God. I don't know everything. I know my shit and I know some stuff. But this is something that I think so many people ask all the time is like I feel stuck and what do I do. So like I have a slew of things that I'm so excited to dive in. But before we even get there, I'd love to hear for our audience that doesn't know who you are, your journey, how you got into this. What a neuropsychotherapist means. I'm like I all of it. I'd love to. to know your history and I know you're my fellow New Yorker, so I'm so excited for us to be talking fast. Yes, I know. I think I live in the Midwest now. I'm like, I need to be able to talk at my speed. Okay. So who am I? So my like front facing very cleaned up professional resume is I'm a licensed neuropsychotherapist. All that means is that, you know, you have a brain, you have a body,

and your feelings are not all in your mind. So neuropsychotherapy is a not a one type of therapy. Just means I'm trained in things that address the fact that you have a freaking brain in your head. And it makes your body feel and do things, which makes you think things, which makes you choose things. So all of that. And so that's, you know, I'm a clinician. I've been in private practice for decade plus. But like, I'm also a recovering hot mess of a human. And I think a lot of therapists want to present reasonably just like I have my shit to. I'm sorry, can I swear on your podcast? Oh, welcome to the fucking family. All I think is say curse words. Excellent. So exactly. So therapists are to swear and we're not supposed to share that we would, you know, secretly smoke crystal

meth in many. Bathrooms of five in the morning before going to work at the corporate job that we hated and that our relationships were a dysfunctional chaotic mess. Yeah. And so I have like my professional shiny resume and my sorted personal resume. And I share from both sides of the fucking couch. I love, I'm literally, for anyone who can't see me, I'm in tears. I'm crying right now because I can't, I'm dying.

You know what? Okay. Let's lift the veil for a second. What is your, because like I'm the same. I am very much, I'm like I, like we talked about earlier, I was like, I'll say things therapists don't feel comfortable to say of like, what the fuck are you doing? And just sometimes we're like, what? But what, yeah, what was your hot mess to where you are now? I love a journey story. So can you share a little bit of like where you were to where you are now and like things that you did along the way? Yeah. And it was really tough because I think for people who, and the word trauma has gotten so just cool. Like, and I'm a trauma expert. So watching that word just get annihilated in. So. So. But like for people who don't have very high level over capital T, however you want to say it, I grew up in a family. My parents were married. We had enough money. No one was like overtly beating. Like it just didn't look like trauma. And so I didn't know that I had it. You know, sexual trauma is a very large continuum onto which lots of fuckery falls. And if it doesn't look like what you think it's supposed to look like, then you're like, no, this is just my normal. I'm just, you know, a hot mess. I'm crazy. I don't know why it, you know, know, 14, 15, 16, I'm making these choices and doing these things and picking the same person over and over again to date. And then in my 20s, you know, the cycle tends to get worse. And so I

really found myself at, you know, mine's such a dramatic, like, not everyone needs to like go to the pits of Hades. But like you mix relational addiction and codependency and love addiction with crystal meth. You're going to very quickly come to a, you're going to die if you don't make a decision. And it came down to I was in a really violent relationship, addicted to a really, really horrible drug. And if I did not make a choice to do something different, I wasn't going to survive the next chapter. So like I left that relationship. I left my life. I burned it down to the ground. I went, what the fuck do I do with myself? I was fortunate. I had the resources to find a therapist. I could access one, a good one. I did some time, you know, at a treatment center in

Arizona that was just super helpful. And then as I started to learn this shit, I was so pissed off when I learned. It's not that fucking hard. Like, yeah, all of this dysfunction and chaos and the hundreds of thousands of dollars and hours that I went back to. It's like this is what it is like driver's ed. You don't need to be a mechanic to drive a car. Driving a car, the basics are not that complicated. Driving our brains is the same thing. I was so pissed off. But you know, I did my work. I got better. And then I'm like, I just want to be obnoxious and do this all the time. So I went back to grad school in my 30s, became a therapist, and here we are. That's looking awesome. And I think I, so when you had all of this, so this was before you became a clinician. Like, this was your kind of your past life.

And it's so interesting how it leads us down to this path because like, I know for me, I'm the same. Like, I was a fucking hot mess. Like, it's so funny thinking about how my mom always described me as like, oh, you were so boy crazy. You know, you're just so boy crazy. And I'm like, that was a cry for help that like nobody saw here was me being obsessed. with these boys at 15 years old and like not being able to eat or function. And it's like there's a difference between all that's cute. She has a crush. And like, hey, maybe my kid actually needs some help.

And I think it's so rad that you are such an incredible example. And that's why I wanted you on of like, you don't have to have all of your shit figured out off the bat. Like I didn't have my shit figured out until I'm still don't. It's, I'm 33 and I'm still figuring that along the way. But I would love to know what did you find aside from like the traditional therapy, what were modalities that you really connected with, that you felt like helped you more than anything else on the spectrum? I'm just curious your experiences.

Yeah, and I had so many things wrong with what I was choosing. And so many different like avenues of just not healthiness that I tried a lot. I've tried the extreme versions of a lot of things. So I tried, I'm going to pray it away. I want to join a fundamentalist cult. And maybe if I'm a good girl and I praise God in the, just the right way, using the right words, wearing the right things that I'll be good. Like, sidebar, don't do that. That does not work sustainably.

But, you know, I did the 12-step program. I did talk therapy. I did, yay. I am great. And the universe loves me. Ra, rah, positivity. Like, I did a lot of different things. It wasn't like there was one here was the key. The one thing that got me forward was the willingness to be honest with myself and not buy my own bullshit. Like, forget about therapy and techniques and tools. Like, if you're willing to not be full of shit with yourself about yourself, you will move forward. That was number one.

Like, that was task one was no more lying to myself about myself. But the therapy that I practice now that I really love is called internal family systems. I love my best. You know, I love it. Okay. So, like, if I was on a desert island with one thing left in my head that I knew, I would want IFS to be in my head. Thank you, Dr. Richard Schwartz, for inventing it.

Because it made sense of all the fuckery that all of these parts of me, the part of me that don't pick up the phone. Don't call him. Don't get in your car. Don't drive to meet that stranger to go to what? Like lots of all of that. IFS made all that made sense. Like why there are parts of me that, no, do this. And why parts of me are like, fuck you.

We're going to do that. And then you don't have to fear your mind when you start to understand how it's built and that there are no bad parts of us. We just need to, it's like having a bunch of kids running around with no adults. It's like if you can parent all the parts of yourself, life works really, like, much better. Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa, whether it's Verde, Roja, or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flamethrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea and milk. Haboniero, more like habanier, yes. Save the everyday with Amazon.

And it's so funny because like when I, I think I'm probably similar to you in the sense where like it's that inner child stuff. Like really understanding that there was something deeper, that was my catalyst. Because I had been doing talk therapy. You know, okay. And I remember just always saying when I'd meditate telling my therapist, I keep seeing my ex and I as kids. And no one ever connected the dots of like, that's how we connected. We were two inner children. And I remember it was like, Different modalities. I had, like, talked to a psychic or, like, she was like a spirit reader. And she even said, your ex is not on this plane. She's like, he's still stuck at seven years old.

And that's where he's operating from. He's not an adult without unbeknownst to me what that actually meant of like, oh, right, he was operating from trauma. And when I started to, and like, his was actually like he had a fucked up mother. And it was like, okay, I can understand. It was no surprise he was narcissist based on how his upbringing was. But once I started to understand, like, the concepts, and I'd love for you to explain a little bit more about IFS because I think there are a lot of.

people that don't really know about that. And I was new, but like the nervous system and in her child work and, you know, everything. But like you said, and I'm going to emphasize what you said, calling yourself out on your shit, I, anytime I work with someone, I'm like, I'm not with you. I can't be in there. You have got to be honest with yourself to stop and say, wait a minute. Am I obsessed with the idea of this person? Because I think we are so scared to admit that to ourselves of like, I used to be when I would have a guy that I knew in my head was not good for me. I fucking knew it. You gut knows. And I would almost, because it was like, If I had to admit that to myself, I had to hold myself accountable.

So instead, I excused and I came up with all of these rationalizations as to why the fuck boy that didn't want anything with me was still acting like a fuck boy, not wanting anything with me, as opposed to Sabrina, you like the idea of this person. You don't actually like this person. They have nothing to offer you. This person is adding no value to your life. But you have convinced yourself that he's perfect after the first date. And then I'd get stuck on loop, which also leads us kind of into like the work that you've done.

So I'd love to hear more from you about like me and pretty much an overarching. What is IFS? Yeah. So IFS and it makes sense. If you think of our language, we all use it. Part of me knows that this guy is bad and part of me is doing this thing anyway, right? We don't even think about our language. But like what do you mean when you say part of you?

So IFS is just like your brain like any complex anything is made up of multiple parts. Like if you look at a tree, it's one tree, but there are branches and roots and bark and leaves and different systems and different parts. of a tree need different things to make them healthy or whatever. I don't know where along the lines we learn that our personality, which is like the most fucking complex thing in the universe is just the singular thing. It's just I. I am this. I have that it's like, no, you have parts of you.

Every age that you have ever been, everything you have ever seen her thought felt experienced is coded in your nervous system. So you are, you have all of these parts of you, the three year old part of you that saw mom and dad get into a fight that the 25 year old you is like that was no big deal but to the three year old part of you it was really scary and that 12 year old parts of you that felt and thought and like those parts don't disappear so we have you know people what they call intrusive thoughts which I get are really scary if you don't know what they are because I have them too but like intrusive thoughts are just parts of you that are trying to get your attention because they all have stories

they want healed they want to heal your brain is on your This was like the biggest thing. If nothing else, when I learned that, oh, our brains are on our side. Like my brain's not actually an asshole. I really thought my brain was a dick. Like, it's out to get me. There's a demon inside me that compels my picker to be broken with partners and whatever. It's like, no, my brain is on my side.

That's a game changer. Because then it's like, well, then what the hell is going on? Oh, these younger parts of me are injured. They think things that are reasonable considering how they were taught. And it's my job as the grown-up in charge to help them to relearn what it means to human. There's one giant school bus filled with little shit versions of me. And I have to be this bus driver to be like, sit the fuck down. Okay.

And I know it because like I had this where, you know, like when I first, I'm going to be honest. I mean, my my partner's here. Like I don't hide anything from my partner. He used to a certain extent. But like I remember even this kind of awareness of like understanding neuroplasticity and understanding reframing. And like I'd love. I definitely want to ask you more about that as like in your studies.

But even just in a macro level for me of like not really know what was happening when I met my partner, I had met this other guy. And it was, you know, we were dating multiple people. He was dating multiple people. So was I. We were both kind of just seeing what was out there while we explored each other. And my partner was the type of person that took a while to open up. He is, we call him tech.

He's very tech and he's very like everything has to be structured. And like he's done an immense amount of work on himself. Like we have the most secure incredible relationship. Doesn't mean it's perfect by a long shot, but it's we communicate. one giant conversation. But when we first started dating, I in my kind of still trying to figure out what was going on brain, having some awareness, you know, like getting past that threshold of like, oh, shit, I'm actually starting to take the self-awareness and implement it into changed to behavior, which is growth. And the other guy was on paper everything I would have gone for.

Every single solitary thing I would have gone for. Like the body type, the perfect, the tattoos, the tall, the athletic, looks like my brother and my father, how creepy that sounds. But, You know what I mean? Like charming, avoidant, very much. And then my partner, not my type, not my type that I, you know, off the street. Same with him. I'm not the girl that he normally would go for. No big deal.

It's just kind of what it is. And when we first started dating, I was going to, I didn't tell him I was like, I was going to break up with you because I had, you know, I was having this other connection and he was opening up quicker, not understanding that it takes time for people. But when I realized, when I started to really realize how much I had grown and changed was like in the past, I would hyper focus on one person. And like when this guy, you know, of course, like true avoidance, he was like had tons of mental health issues and came to me one day after like our fourth date and was just like, I can't do this. I'm so sorry. Like the poor guy had a literal mental breakdown and like had to take care of himself. Like my heart went out to him. And so then I, you know, started really focusing on my partner. And I was like, okay, the old Sabrina would have absolutely gotten rid of my current partner tech guy. I would have been like, fuck this. You're not you're you're too secure or you're boring. You're not like giving me the ups and downs. And then looking at this guy and hyper focusing on him and oh my God, why can't I have him? and hung on him when instead I had to actually retrain my brain to stop and say, okay, this person's

not able to give you what you want. That's okay. That doesn't make there anything wrong with me. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with him. We're just not compatible. Let me explore something out of my comfort zone because through that growth comes an uncomfortable situation. And that is when I started to have that first inclination of, oh my God, you can retrain your brain. Holy shit, I don't need to be stuck on the hamster wheel of always going for my dad. I can get off and try a new dance. And I'd love to hear more the science behind this neuroplasticity. And I'm sure things that you have been working on when you wrote your book and more about understanding like, how can you actually reframe your thoughts and change your brain?

Like how the fuck on a scientific level does that work? Well, let's first normalize that like are even just referring to having a type. And I get it because I did it too. It's like we don't ever stop to think like the fact that you have a type is very fucking curious, isn't it? Like, where did they call it in the sciencey world your arousal template? Like, where did this thing actually come from? And if you have a type and historically your relationships have not worked, that's probably the case that your arousal template was a trauma installed arousal template.

Like, hello, yes. Daddy issues? I thought I had like severe daddy issues, which I did. And then once I got those cleaned up a little, I'm like, oh, shit, I got the mommy issues. Yeah, and I was hard on the other side. But, you know, people are like, I keep dating the same person over and over. Well, doing the same thing over and over again is the definition of insanity. No, it's fucking not. Doing the same thing over and over is the definition of trauma repetition. And that's how our brains are actually wired. Like, left untrained, your brain will always default to repeating the

same thing over and over and over and over again because it's wired to seek out not what's good for us, not what's healthy, not what will make us feel loved and joyful and happy. Our brains are wired to seek out the familiar because then our brains don't have to work so hard. Like our brains are like, what's the easiest way to have to go to autopilot? And it's like, oh, that guy's familiar. That girl's familiar. Go over there.

Not because that'll make you happy, but because we know that. Like so our brains are not wired for love. They're wired for survival and for repetition and for pattern seeking. So it's really nice to know like, no, you're not broken or crazy. the reason you go for the same thing over and over and over again is because that's how your brain was designed. But like you said, yay, you don't have to just live with the design. You have to train it. Neuoplasticity just means you can train it to do other things. Like I'm married to a wonderful, wonderful, hell. I call him a normie. It's like she's like a healthy, normal, regular guy.

And I was so disoriented when I said I had to go to my therapist like way more often because I'm like, I don't understand this guy. He sleeps when he's tired and he eats when he's hungry and he has friends. and when he doesn't want to do something, he says no. And like, he tells me no, like, what the hell? Like, no, you don't want to do something. Like, what's, you know? Oh, I'm such a brat. What do I want to say?

When my partner says, no, I'm like, what the fuck did you just say to me? And that's when I just stopped and I'm like, you know he's allowed to say that, right? And I'm like, right, okay, cool. And like, that's a good thing. But we think I have a type, therefore I'm only going to date within that type. That reinforces your brain pathways that you're, that are not making your life work. So like you said, if you want to train your brain, you're going to have to be uncomfortable. Nobody goes to the gym and is surprised to learn that cardio makes you sweat and strength training hurts.

So like it doesn't hurt to the point of injury. But if you're comfortable at the gym, you're not going to get strong. Like you won't. You get strong by literally ripping your muscle fibers. Like sorry, not sorry, but relationships and our brain and our patterns are the same way. Like we have to be willing to tolerate the discomfort of the unfamiliar in order to break our loops. 100%. And it's like I'm glad I always use the gym analogy myself as well. I'm like, I could tell you how to go do a deadlift. I could intellectualize the fuck out of how to do this. You'll get to that bar and forget you're going to be like, wait, what? What am I doing? And that's kind of like, you know, and I'd love your thoughts on this. And thank you actually also for clarifying the definition of insanity. Because I used to say that. I'd be like, you're the definition of insanity. you do the same thing expecting a different result.

And it's like, you know what? Actually, no, you're right. I do. I think that can, I think that's more of a like a very shallow surface level statement. It's kind of like if you wanted to, he would. I fucking hate that sentence. I hate that statement with a goddamn passion because it's like, oh, so people are that simple that it's just about want.

You know what? I want to be a millionaire right now. Well, I must not want it bad enough, I guess that I just can't accomplish that, right? I want to be on the moon. Well, you might not want it bad enough. But I appreciate that clarity and understanding of, okay, no, our brains are literally designed to that. And like, Masha, who is a really good friend of mine, she's a nervous system specialist and she's

on the podcast all the time. And she always says like, you're not broken. There's nothing to fix. Your nervous system isn't designed to help you grow. It's designed to help you stay safe. And I'd love to know when it came to writing the book, because I know you have the science of stuff. Can you tell me more of like, what, how did you get to writing it and really like stuck?

Because I think we hear this all the time. What does that mean exactly? like on a science level. Yeah. So, okay, so when I talk about the word stuck, and this is so important in like the Instagram expert world where everyone is talking trauma and narcissism and like those are very things. Yeah. Don't get me started.

There's one more fucking narcissist. I'm like, it's just a guy that didn't call you back. No, like not a like no, he's an asshole, not a narcissist. Now he didn't gas like you. He lied. Anyway, sorry, that's a whole other rant that we can go down. We'll save that for another day. The book is the science of stuck because, you know, I found on that.

in the mental health world, all of the really important information is so academic and hard to understand. And, you know, like, it's being gate kept by very expensive specialists or on the other side, the self-help world. If they're not, you know, invested in the research, then it's just like, just think happy thoughts and everything would be fine. And like, so what I wanted to do was bridge the two because I'm both a clinician and a disastrous human working on being less disastrous day by day. And so I call it the science of stuck and not the science of trauma or the neuroscience because it's like, why do we need complicated language? Not everyone identifies as a trauma survivor or not everyone identifies as having a mental health challenge, but everyone knows what it's like to be stuck. Like this work is not just for people who know that they need the support and the resources.

It's like everyone gets stuck with something with finances, career decisions, launching a business, raising the kids, like whatever the thing is. we all know what it's like to be stuck. The title sort of vomited out of me. The woman who later became my speaking agent, I met her at a networking thing, and she's not in the clinical world. She's like, what do you do? I'm like, I'm a neurosakeist therapist.

And she's like, okay, like, give it to me in English. Like, what do you do? Like, oh, I help people with the science of stuff. She's like, that's a good book title. I'm like, oh, that's a really good book time. Oh, yes, and it became the book. Now, I wrote the book because I needed when I was going through, like the heat of the shit, not all of the books. I didn't need to know all of the things about the nervous

system, about relationships, about boundaries, about grief, about inner child. I need someone to just bottom line the shit for me. It's like, I brains on fire, give me three things I need to know for right now. And that book didn't exist for me as I, you know, when I was going through it. I'm like, I wanted people to have one place with one book with just bottom lines. So like it covers a little bit of all of the things. Because if you only focus on your nervous system, then you don't realize you have an inner child. If you only focus on your inner child, then you don't realize you have a nervous system. And I wanted to have one show and tell for all the fun things that I learned on my journey. And that's what I could love that. I'm actually, I can't wait to read it because I'd recently just

discovered the book. And I was like, wait, way, way, way. Because we only connected very recently. And I was like, wait, wait, wait. But I think you and I have similar journeys of the same, like, that's how do the work started. And it was the same thing when I kept saying, I was like, what are you going to call this podcast? And I was like, I don't know, I just wish people would do the work. And I kept saying and I was like, oh, there's your, there's your title. And it's the same. It's like this amalgamation of, okay, if I see one more fucking Instagram or TikTok thing of like, here's how to get a guy back or here's how to get some obsessed with you, it's like, what you're doing is you're capitalizing and making gains on people's misfortune and delusions. And you are trying to target people to focus on everything else but themselves.

Because at the end of the day, and I, you know what, I fought my sister on this for years, but bless her. soul, she always used to say, because like my sister met her husband at 18. They had that story where, like, they met when they were 18. They've been together ever since. They've been together almost 19 years. They're a beautiful couple. They're very much in love. They're not perfect. They're just a healthy couple. And so anytime she'd give me dating advice, I've of course snap and be like, what the fuck do you know, Jamie? Like, you've never been ghosted. You've never had a guy do this. You've never had this. And she would always say, said, listen, I'm trying to help you. There must be a common denominator here. If it consistently keeps happening to you, we can't just blame everybody else. And I would say, I think that's where I was stuck personally on my journey of, you know, no, no, but why am I just, why do we keep hitting loop over and over again? And I know for me, it was self-awareness, like you said, a hundred percent growth-minded. Like I was like, I am, I am committing. Because people ask me the time, well, how long did it take you? It only took you four years to get here. And it's like, that was my journey.

That was my process. And that was because of who I am, New York, what's up? We shout that out. I feel like it's just it's ingrained in us to be like, I'm going to commit to this a thousand percent because I knew the relationship I had with myself was the most important relationship I will ever have. And like my mama said, you got to love yourself more than the need to be loved by other people. And not in the cliche cheesy way of like go to a bubble bath, but like actually accepting yourself and truly saying, I'm not too much. I am good enough. I am worthy. Where did I learn this from? I learned this in my childhood because my dad used to walk out when I'd cry. And so I developed these coping mechanisms to keep me safe that are no longer working. And so as an adult, I had to say, that's on me. And that was the ownership I took. But I was more so curious, like, whenever you get people, if they're kind of just like, I'm stuck, but I don't know what's going on or I don't know where to start.

Like, what do you have for those people that email us every single day being like, I'm stuck, I'm healing, nothing's helping. Yeah. So like, the New Yorker in me is like, no, you're not. Like, let's figure out what the fuck is going on. But like the therapist, like empathy, like, I will hold space for. anything that you bring to me is like, okay, well, I'll validate. It feels like you're stuck. It feels like nothing is working. Because if you don't start with the validate from a nervous

system point of view, the part of me that's like, let's get this on. Like, let's just go on with the shit. But like, if you don't downregulate the nervous system first, a lot of times people feel stuck and like they don't know what to do because their nervous system is so fried that, yeah, all the logic, all of the things that you do actually know are now locked in the closet and you can't get them. So I feel so stuck, I don't know what to do. Assume that if you really feel like you are stuck and you have no idea what to do, let's start with let's downregulate you enough that then you can think again because I have never and I don't often use the word never. I have never seen it in my entire career unless it was like organic like dementia or schizophrenia or some

sort of a situation where someone was being oppressed and legitimately had no resources. I have never seen it where once you settle someone just a little bit, that they're not like, well, yeah, I kind of do know what's going on. I just don't like it. Yeah. Okay. I don't know what to do about this relationship is usually code for. I know what I need to do and I really don't want to because it's terrifying. Like, okay, we can work with that or even I'm not ready to leave this relationship yet because I'm too scared. Like, okay. Like no problem. I can get, I can get you miles of progress if that's where we're starting. If it's, I don't know what to do, nothing is worked. It's like, that's not actually honest. So if we're not. We're not.

starting with something truthful. There's no there's nothing we can do. If you're willing or if you're like like you said earlier, which I loved it's like why he's a narcissist? Why does he do that? How do I make them obsessed with me? And it's like not and the narcissists and narcissism is a subspecialty of mine and I've been in actual high level like for real and I'm a clinician saying this for real NPD type situations. Like it's a thing. It's not all of the things but like it's a thing. But I was. able to heal from that when it wasn't why is he being a narcissist? It's why am I tolerating this behavior? Whatever. Who cares if he's got NPD or if he's just on the spectrum or he's just an asshole? It actually doesn't matter in the slightest. It's not, no, why do they do this? It's why

am I tolerating this? And then it's what are my choices? And of those, this is the kicker, what am I willing to say yes to? Because there was a lot of shit I was not willing to do, which is fine. If a client comes to me not willing to do nine out of ten things, no problem. What's a yes we can get you to because a yes in any direction of any size gets you unstuck. Once you say yes, you are no longer stuck. So let's find your yeses instead of spinning on the, I don't know what to do. And it's like, okay, forget about what to do. What are your options right now?

Pick one. What are you willing to say yes to? That'll get you unstuck almost every time. I love that because it's very like I'm the same. I'm like, let's be solution oriented. Like let's not focus on the product. It's like the minute because I have a business. So I've had a clothing line for like six years now.

And it's like how many fucking issues I deal with on a daily basis of like, they cut this wrong or they did this. And I'm like, okay, we can't focus on the fact that it's fucked up or any. Like we know, we are where we are. And I'm like, so what do we? What are our options here? Let's, let's macro this shit and see what we can do here. And then how do we move more effectively?

Do I have a guarantee that everything I'm going to do is going to make sense? No, I've made stupid business decisions. I've made colors that didn't work. But at the end of the day, I had to make a decision. And I trusted versus I overthinking and the hypervigilance and ruminating. And I'm glad you brought up. like regulating because so one thing I will say to anybody please be careful if you're going to regulate doing the shakes because you don't want to break your foot like I did when I just did uh mm-hmm yeah I did I did I was doing the shakes I have a video of it of me jumping up and down and all of a sudden you hear and I broke my fucking foot so just wear shoes if you're going to do it not what's hot um and please be careful of your ankles but when it comes to like a great example like I the other day my masha and I were with my brother and we got into a fight and I mean, listen, we're human. We're siblings. I love him. He's my brother. But like, we had a stupid fight. And I instantly got to, like, I, the minute he triggered me, he said something about my sister and we had this whole dynamic. All the sudden, I knew I was dysregulated. My eyes started to the floor. I couldn't look him in the eyes. I started to sweat. I could feel it. And when I say hell in a handbasket, I could not think logically, literally. And he kept coming at me and coming at me and coming at me. It got to the point where I said, I need to remove myself before I say something. I'm going to regret.

and I'm removed myself and I regulated. And I could hear Masha telling, trying to explain to him because my brother's very logical and doesn't understand like the emotional. And she was trying to say, she's not thinking here. She's like, your sister, I saw her. She's like when the minute she screamed, she was like, she went back to being four years old and you kept going. It kept going.

And the funny thing is that I think on paper, because he was gaslighting me. Like, that's what it was. But my brother's not a narcissist. And I think like you had said earlier of like, it doesn't mean. that as like, no, he had narcissistic tendencies. Well, where I wonder where he got that from, my father, who is a text book, like you would have a field day with him in your clinical studies studying my father as a narcissist. I love him as a human being, but he is. And it's like, so that's where I can't be, I can't be terribly shocked that my brother's trauma response was to go based off what he learned

in those early developmental years, which is where the disconnect happened. Had I not been aware enough to be like, oh my God, I'm dysregulated at you to remove myself, I would have said, See, we're stuck. We're at an impasse. We're never going to get over this. We're never going to move on. It's the same shit over and over. But a decision and a change had to be made of, do I have another choice right now? Yes, I can remove myself. Absolutely. And I love that you names the factors in real time were that you had choices and that you had access to safety because the dark side of all this. I can't believe that nervous system regulation has gone to the dark side. But like it actually has like regulation at the expense of what's true is just more gaslighting. Like you can't, I did this too, so I'm not shaming anyone. I'm like, how do I regulate myself so I can go home and be abused by my partner and because his trauma made him do it. And I'm an empath. And it's like, I love him. And I'm going to love him and heal him because I understand why it's like, oh my gosh. But like, you cannot regulate your way out of an abusive situation. The case that you just described, you had very clear exits where you could leave,

reestablish who you are, where you are, when you are, what your choices are, and sort of like reorient that dynamic. But in a lot of cases, people try to regulate themselves out of a very real unsafe situation. And you cannot regulate abuse. Like, that's not a thing. What is your suggestion? Because like, this just came to me. I do get a lot of people that were right in being like, what we know, what do I do if I'm dysregulated in the moment? Like the person's there. For me, I'm like, remove yourself. Just be like, I need to go to the bathroom or something. But is there, I was going to say, is there anything else that you could recognize? if somebody's in this moment of like a guy says something to them that triggers them or whatever. Yeah. And the first thing is all, removing yourself is always a good. That one's good.

But the first question to ask is like, are you disregulated because just like a regular thing happened that triggered you? Like I took a dance class a few weeks ago and a guy, I was dancing. I didn't know they were going to make us dance with everybody in the room. And I'm not like a let's touch all the humans person. And so I got super just no one was inappropriate. no one was unkind. No one was a dick. I just like, oh my God, all these people are touching me and now I want to punch holes in the walls. I will not actually endanger in that situation. So my regulation strategies were, okay, I need to take a breath. I need to remove myself. I need to do all my coping things. But if the reason you're being dysregulated is because someone is emotionally or physically abusing you, which happens often. It's like the task there is not to regulate yourself. The task is get away and ask. yourself, what am I tolerating in that moment? If your partner says something innocent and it triggers the hell out of you, regulation strategies like hold the ice cubes or take a walk or all those things that we've heard, those are great.

Those are not great if your partner is yelling at you, calling you a bitch and, you know, screaming at you. Like you're not supposed to be regulated in that circumstance. 100%. Your nervous system is doing its job. It's keeping you safe. It's like, bitch get pluck out. This isn't safe.

And I think that's what Masha always explains probably the tiger. It's like, is there really a threat here? Or are you creating a threat? I know I was, I mean, even now, and I can relate to you with, like, having a very secure partner where, like, something will trigger me. And I'll literally like go. I've gotten so quick at doing this because I'm just, and I'll stop. And I'm like, wait, well, what was the, what did you just say? What did you just say? What was my trigger? And I try to identify that. And I'm like, all right, where am I feeling this? I'm feeling a little anxious. I know this is familiar. All right, what's the narrative? And I'm like, him saying no, I felt rejected. I, Sabrina, but did he really reject you? No, he just doesn't want to go see that. And it's like, okay. And I can do this within like a minute. And I can. And I can do this within like a minute. And. And. And I can do this. And I can do this within like And then I can still. You've built the muscle. 100%. But like driving a car. At first, it's like 10 and 2 and where is the?

It's like I could smoke a cigarette and drink a coffee and listen to the radio and be talking to people and looking at like all of the birds. So it's like a muscle and people expect themselves to go from no consciousness whatsoever to what you just described, which is like black belt level skill. But you can build that skill. It's repetition and willingness to be like, okay. The IFS thing works really too. My husband's funny.

He's like, you know, he's like, I don't have parts, but he understands and loves and respects that I do. He does. It's very cute. But like, I'm super PMSy right now. And so I got a little bit, a little aggressive. And he, he set a very, very cute little boundary. He's like, sounds like some of the parts are needing some stuff. So he's like, I am just going to go over there. I'm not, I'm not walking away from you. But, you know, some of the parts seem to be up. And I'm like, oh, yeah, some of my parts are up right now. I've got like angry, ragey teenage parts that are being not the kind of. And it's a muscle. You have to start somewhere. And eventually you can do what you just described, which is awesome when you can do it in real time. 100% and I'm like I like you and I are clear indications of like like crystal meth like the poster child for anxiety like what people all the time like they'll be talking they're like you don't seem anxious like you or me I'm like oh babe I know your thought process I know every oh really you didn't get the text from him and now all of a sudden it's what did I do you're rereading your text back you're ruminating and your thoughts you're trying to figure out what's wrong with you I was like oh please oh because I don't know I lived there for 28 years of my life constantly and it would took me me time. Like you said, the big tease and little treat tease, I get, you know, I'm sure you hear that I had a great childhood. And it's like, I thought I did until I went back and I was like, oh, so wait, my dad hitting me with his belt wasn't normal. Oh, wait, my dad leaving for two weeks with his girlfriend. That's not normal. Oh, my parents, like all of these things that I saw, oh, that's not normal. It's like, no, it's not. And it's okay to admit, I learned shitty behaviors from people early on. And if we try to fight it,

which I think a lot of people do because they don't want to like villainize their parents. And I'm like two conflicting thoughts, you could have had a great childhood on paper, but still also your need to earn met. The impulse to defend our parents is like, that's like a biological thing. You know, like is it wild? If you didn't have your parents, you die. So our brains are actually primed to defend even the most abusive. Like I used to work in with foster care kids who were taken out of the home and then hospitalized

for psychosis or, you know, suicidal ideation or whatever. And no matter how abusive the home, when people would come to take those children away, they would scream and cry. And then you would get them in the hospital. And I missed my mom. I missed my dad. I missed whoever the person was. Because biologically, we are wired to defend to the death, our caregivers. So first of all, like, we need to know that's how our brain is oriented.

Two, I'm not here to demonize everyone's mom and dad. It's like, forget about whether or not they meant it. Forget about, like, let's just start with what was the impact it had on you? Like even if that's what he knew, even if he loved you so much and doing that was, it doesn't, like, forget about blame. Let's focus on impact. If we can shift the narrative from blaming them to impact on us, we're going to be able to get moving a lot faster because I did too. Like you can get lost in the weeds of, but they left me. It's like love is not the problem here and it's not the thing in question. No. And it's like, they did the best they could with the information they knew. Like I personally had two immigrant parents. I'm like, when I hear my mom, even she tells me, she's like, I haven't told you story. because I don't want to hurt. I don't want you to hurt. And I'm like, I can only imagine what this woman went through in her early years. And it's like, I don't blame her. I did for a while until I started doing this work and being like, oh, right, it wasn't, she didn't do this out of malice. Even my father being a narcissist. I'm like, you know, did he fuck up a lot? Absolutely. But he wasn't doing this to be like, I'm going to hurt them. I'm going to do. It's like this person was operating in their trauma. It's an explanation, not an excuse, of course. But I do have a couple of questions. So we got, I asked on Insta, people that have questions for you. The number one thing I got was the word compare. Compare, compare came up over and over and over again. So I'll ask you two questions. You can probably answer it the same way. Someone to ask how to stop comparing with people who are more advanced to you when you feel stuck.

And then how to navigate feeling stuck with dating and being on a timeline compared to others. So I think they all kind of said the same thing. Yeah. So the comparison thing is curious because like with anything, whether it's dating or a career goal or a fitness goal or whatever, like house goals, parenting goals. There's a point at which looking at people doing the thing you want is inspiring and moves you forward. And then there's a point at which it completely freezes you and now you just feel bad about yourself. So get really honest. If you're comparing, it's probably because how many hours are you spending observing the thing that you're comparing yourself to. So stop doing that. Like even people that really inspire me and that generally drive me forward, there are times where I go

through insecurity and self-down and all that. And those are times I need to be. temporarily mute or unfollow accounts that make me want to give up. So this is where you need to do an honest inventory of your media ingestion and ask yourself, who are you talking to, who are you listening to? What are you watching? And how is it making you feel like shit? It sounds so simple. Just stop doing it.

But people underestimate the impact that all of that sort of casual, unconscious, numby out scrolling, your brain is paying attention. If you are seeing happy couples doing life goals and couple goals all day long, you need to turn your attention elsewhere or else that's going to continue to pool. The fastest way to stop comparing is to change the channel from what you're watching to something else. And then your brain's not going to do the comparison thing. So that's a real easy little hack. And then the other one is to ask yourself, rather than why don't I have this?

Because why, like, and I say this as an analyst. why is a great question when you're launching a business. Like the whole Simon Sinek start with why. Like that is the gold standard of business development. And I am not touching his theory on that. But start with why is shit advice when you're stuck. Because it doesn't matter why you're stuck. I can give you the why and we're still going to be here.

So when you're stuck with the comparison game with whatever the thing is, don't ask why. Ask what are my choices. And of those, I call these micro yeses. If your choices feel too big, make them smaller. What's something you can, what's a micro yes that you can grab? Because as soon as you say yes to something, you're going to get a little microdose of dopamine, which will then give you the yes, I can energy, which will then lead to another thing and then another thing.

So always change your whys. Why can't I? Why don't I? Why do? Whatever. So what are my choices? It is astounding how quickly that gets you out of the comparison trap and out of stuck. Like stuck turns into unstuck the second you say yes to anything.

She knows. How? Did you Blow? No. The Devil Wears Prada 2. He's the movie event 20 years in the making. Honestly, can't with the secrets anymore, so I think we just should tell her. Will you two please spit it out already? This Friday, be the first to experience it only in theaters.

In light of the recent scandal, I'm here to restore your credibility. Oh, because we're a team now? That's a nice story. The Devil Wears Prada 2 in Theaters Friday. I'm glad you said that. That's what I do. So I was like, oh, hey, I'm on the, because I'm the same. When I started the podcast, there were a lot of inspiring people, but I'm getting in my head and it'd be like, wait, but how did they grow 300,000 followers? And I didn't. Okay, well, then what am I doing wrong? Like, do people just

not like me? Is this a me thing? And I remember even my partner, he like came up to me and he like, tap me on the head and he's like, what's our rule? No, looking at comments or other people shit. And I had to, and I was like, he's right. I had to mute all those accounts. And it's not that I don't respect these people or think that they're amazing, but I get caught up and fuck, I didn't think of that and what's wrong with me? I've made a rule now, Instagram and TikTok, I don't scroll because from my mental health, that, like you said, that was my option of, yeah, I could keep forcing myself. Like, I have people to do this all the time. They're like, should I just sit in the discomfort? And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Sitting in the discomfort is,

you know, that guy didn't text you after one date. Don't fucking text him. Start thinking it was coming up. Not this guy is being blatantly abusive to you. So let me sit in the discomfort to I grow a around this because I'm like, then you probably are just going to go dorsal and shut down because your body is like, I'm in constant survival. You're not listening to and kind of collapse. So I love, I think that's like a hundred percent and I'm with you. I try to avoid why questions because it's like, where are we getting? I got a client the other day. Why do I keep going after this girl and not the other one? And I was like, we know why. I was like, that's not the question. I'm like, I could tell you right now why. Because safe feels uncomfortable as you're going for the girl. That's right. Textbook. But it's like, Instead, yeah, it's like, what's coming up for you? What about the unavailable? You know, you can ask different questions in different ways, so I'm really glad. And so now I have one last question for you that I really actually would love your thoughts on, especially the neuroplasticity component of it.

For someone who always thinks worst case scenario all the time or like this scarcity mindset, the stinking thinking, as my mom says, how do you put yourself at ease or at least try to work through that? I think when you're just, you know, my heart went out. I had a client yesterday and she had one date with this guy. And it was one date. And if already he's perfect, he's perfect. And I kept saying, I was like, listen, we got to let's take him off the pedestal.

Like this person's not perfect. You don't know them. Sure enough, she got the text from him literally that afternoon that he didn't want to date her. And it was hysterics. And it's like, then it was, I'm not good. And the spiraling ensues. How, what is your thoughts for people that are struggling who always go, worst case scenario? It's always going to hurt me.

This person, you know, the negative bias always like, how can, how can those people seek help? Yeah. And there's one trick that I would say firstly applies to the situation. And if someone came into my office and they do with that situation, this is where IFS, it's an IFS technique. Change your inner monologue to an inner dialogue. I'll explain what that means. I don't know why I'm unlivable and I suck and everyone hates me.

It's like, okay, an inner monologue is thinking an I, first person, I, me, my, my life sucks. I never get the person. An inner dialogue is let's separate. There's the you that thinks that stuff. And there's the you that actually here is that stuff. Imagine that the person thinking that is your best friends. Then it's not, oh my God, I feel like I'm not livable. And I feel like everything I do is shit.

It's no, she feels really unlovable. And this part of me, she feels like everything is shit. Now I'm going to talk to her the way I would to a friend. And this is an actual tech. You feel totally bonkers when you do this. But it actually works. It works from a nervous system point of view. It works from a psychological point of view.

It just works. Then it's if you have to put like, a coffee cup across the table from you start to us like all right girl listen i know right now it feels like this is never going to end and i know you feel and then you have now created some space between the part of you that feels flooded the part of you that feels everything is a catastrophe and a centered grounded capital y you that is actually capable of logic and reason and compassion and calmness and curiosity and all of those things turn your inner monologue into an inner dialogue and that will help I mean, it's not going to magic everything better.

But that is the first technique that really starts to get movement with that. Because we all know what it's like when someone's spinning. There's no logic to be had. There's no, listen, you know, like life's pretty long. Is this your only shot at happiness? Right now it feels like that. But if you can separate the eye from this part of me, she feels, he feels, they feel, however, then you can start to access your logic brain, dial down the intensity.

of the nervous system reaction and then get to your choices faster because it all comes down to you how do we get to your choices as fast as possible in our dialogue will get that job done oh i love that oh thank you for that i love larney like new techniques new little things and i and spoiler alert for anyone who's listening that's like bit i keep trying that's in the hominick it's like this is where to me i'd be like this is the pony up you got to fucking take some accountability and self-control because like i had one client and i loved him and every time i'd say something he'd be like i know that consciously but like you Yeah, but I still text him. And I was like, you want someone to just magically come and fix you. You don't, first of all, you're not broken, but you know what I mean? You want someone that's just going to wave a wand. I'm like, you don't want to have to own up that you're alone in that room and no one's there with you and that you have to step up and be like, wait a minute, I have to take control of myself.

I can't just always be like, I just don't feel that or I just can't or I just end up texting him anyways. It's like, no, you have self-control. Listen, you're not eating fucking McDonald's every single day. You know that that's not good for you. You know that if you eat a shit ton of junk. junk food, you're going to get fat so you know in your head, okay, hey, I need to curb that. Like, I can't do this. Otherwise, self-control, none of us would do it. So I love that. And it kind of

reminds me, too, like, when I first started therapy, I had, I did CBT, then DBT, and now kind of into IFS, I suppose, with all the stuff that we're talking about. But it was tapping. It was kind of that same thing of like, I'm such a piece of shit. I'm so fucking stupid. And I remember just and being like, but am I? You know, like in that I think kind of was the first step for me. Do you think that is also a tool that like you like, do you like tapping? Yeah, it's not, I don't know a whole lot about it. There's so many modalities. I wish I had the time and energy to learn. I'm a big fan of it. Everyone I've talked to that's done EFT has amazing things to say about it. It's just not an avenue that I've had the inclination to go down. But like, honestly, anything that works,

I'm like, check. If it works for you, then awesome. Like, I don't do EMDR. Personally, I don't, I don't like it. It doesn't work for my brain. But I'm a big fan. Like if EMDR is your damn, then awesome. If it works for you and it doesn't make you act out in asshole ways, then like whatever the thing is, go for it. And so your guy that's like the, you know, I just want to, I know consciously that the thing that no one wants to admit myself included is that sometimes we stay stuck because there are parts of us fully invested in the version of us

that's stuck. And to change that is going to have an identity crisis. I was very invested in the victim narrative in that everything happens to me. someone should take care of me, someone should do this for me. The thought of taking accountability and owning my own life was very, very, very disruptive. So sometimes we stay stuck, it because we want to be. Not always, not for everyone, but sometimes. 100%.

I think it's, you nailed it. It's like there was, I was the same. I was like, why is this happening to me? Not for me. It was that like, well, was me. Everything doesn't. And it's like that was actually, I think, because I'm one of the most empowering moments, I think, in the journey of like, oh, like, I'll even tell us a client, so you have no control over any of your life? So it's everything is the guy or the girl, they're allowed to control everything. They get to dictate. I'm like, what about you? Have we stopped to? And I think when you're people pleaser and you've grown up, never looking at yourself, that can feel. I had somebody say, am I a narcissist because I started and I'm like, oh, no. I was like, just because you start to think about yourself or put yourself first or think about your needs. I'm like, that doesn't make you a narcissist. That just.

makes you a human that has great boundaries. But nonetheless, but Britt, oh my God, what an incredible conversation. I literally didn't even have to bounce back to the questions I had originally thought because we had such an incredible conversation. I'm so excited for everybody. Where can they find you? I'm going to link everything in the show notes. We're going to have your book so that everyone can go buy it, myself included. But if they want to talk to you work with you or anything, how can people find you? Yeah, find me on Instagram. It's just my name at Britt Frank or my website, Science ofstock.com. Awesome. And I will link all of that in case anybody wants to find you. But Britt, thank you again so, so much for sitting with me. This was fucking awesome. Thank you.