The Sabrina Zohar Show - 41: Letting go of control, what it actually means to show up intentionally, detachment and surrendering to the outcome with Masha Kay!

Episode Date: October 27, 2023

On this weeks episode of The Sabrina Zohar Show Sabrina is joined by Masha Kay to go over letting go of control, what it actually means to show up intentionally, detachment and surrendering to the outcome. Want to work with Sabrina? HERE! Stuck After the Podcast? Master Implementation in 8 Weeks with Sabrina's Foundation Course Join the Make It Make Sense: Getting Through a Breakup course HERE! Get Ad-free episodes and 2 Bonus episodes a month HERE! Dont forget to follow Sabrina and The Sabrina Zohar Show on instagram and Sabrina on Tik tok! Video now available on YOUTUBE!  Disclaimer: The Sabrina Zohar Show, formally known as Do The Work, is not affiliated with A.Z & associates LLC in any capacity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of Do the Work Podcast. My name is Sabrina and I am your host. Guys, happy Friday. I'm a little under the weather this week. I don't know if you hear the sniffles or the cough, so please don't mind me, but you know I couldn't miss an episode with you guys. But there's just a lot going on in the world and I don't give a fuck what side you're on as always. I'm not trying to prove a point here, but what I am going to say is please look at the facts and please, please do your homework and educate yourself. because I have literally made myself sick looking at the internet and I have taken a tire.

That's why some of you guys have not really seen me on social media. I have my very part-time assistant posting and just doing things for me because sometimes we all need to take a break from all the bullshit other people are going through and really just focus on ourselves and focus on the facts at hand. So this week, a very, very highly requested episode that we want a part de of was breakups, no contact, and building self-esteem to date again. So I've got all of my thoughts for you, babes, and I am just so excited. As always, thank you guys for everything.

Please, please, please, if you haven't already, please leave a five-star review on any platform for me. It is the only way I can climb the ranks. It is the only way I can get the show out. It's the only way I can get more people, guests, and sponsors. Please don't forget to give some love to the people that sponsor the show. The products are all amazing. I use them all, otherwise I would never talk about them.

And again, that is how I can get. keep the show free for you guys and hopefully do more episodes because I'd like next year to do two a week. But mama's got to grow a little bit. As always as well, guys, anything you need is going to be in the show notes. So any of our sponsors, all of their information will be there if you want to work with me one-on-one, ask me a question. Tech guy and are doing dating up audits. Open is still giving a free month of meditation. Everything will be in the link in the show note. So you know you can always come find me. So without further ado, let's get right on into it. Hello, Ms. Masha, welcome back. Thank you. I am so excited. I know. I can't believe. I mean, it's been like over a month.

You were gone for what? You were gallivanting through Paris. As is life. As such as life, eh? I'm excited. I know today as, you know, our resident guest speaker who always comes on. I love that. Yeah. I know that title. Our resident, you're actually one of the only people that is a repeat guest because there's reason for that because you're the best. But today, we're going to talk about something that is actually really near and dear to my heart because I was the queen of doing this. And I think it's really important. And I think a lot of the teachings that I talk about that you talk about really come. It's a culmination of all of these things.

And I think it's important for us. And what that, I love how I'm keeping everyone like baited. What that topic is is letting go of control. And what does it mean to date with detachment? What does it mean to surrender? What does that mean? And I think we can come at this from so many different ways. but I think something that you and I have become really passionate about is debunking the bullshit that people are talking about.

And so I'm excited. I'm super excited. I think this topic is so important. And yet there are so many misconceptions or so many teachings that meanwhile are so vague and so difficult to implement, not at all actionable. And then people get very confused and discouraged or believe they're doing it wrong. Meanwhile, it was just never explained to them properly. Quick call out. I can. If anybody's in LA, November 9th, we have our first live podcast event. So for anybody,

I had to put that in really quick. Masha and I will be there with Leo Skeppy and we're going to have the best fucking night, cocktails, snacks, swag bag. You get to meet us. You get to hang out with us. November 9th. It's only 20 bucks for a ticket because we want to have people have skin in the games that you come. So the link will be in the show notes for you guys to come out and meet us and have an amazing fucking experience with us in person. So please share it to all your LA friends. I'm super excited. I'm just excited to have a conversation and meet with your incredible community. I've been meeting with you guys in sessions and through these lives. And it's just such an honor, honestly.

It's such an honor that you've chosen to include me. And I could not be more excited. I'm sorry. I had to do a quick plug in just so that everybody knows. But anyways, I think we talk about this dating with detachment, dating with detachment. We say this all the time. It's a buzzword. It's a thing that people are hearing.

And it was interesting because we did the question box. And I think it affirmed our worries was. the massive amount of people being like, wait, but how am I going to date with detachment, but then not make a connection and when do you start to attach to somebody? And so I think it's so important for us to really, maybe we just start there of like, what do we actually mean by dating with detachment? How to effectively do that. And then I think that will really kind of bring us into what we mean by like releasing control. Absolutely. And I'm actually really curious to hear your take on dating with detachment. As you know, dating is not necessarily my

specialty. My specialty is the nervous system, relationships, usually longer relationships, working towards goals. And I hear you talk about this topic. And the second I heard that verbiage, I'm like, ooh, something about that doesn't quite sit right with me. But I think maybe either I'm misunderstanding it, which means other people are misunderstanding it. So I'm curious to hear how you define it. And then maybe I can give a little bit of a nervous system spin to it. Totally. Nervous system perspective, let's say. Totally. Because I think when I say date would detachment. And it's the same thing that your eyebrows raised when we were talking about this originally was, well, wait, how are we going to make a connection? And it's like, okay, so I think this is a great

place to start. When I personally, I can't speak for the world, when we're talking about dating with detachment, the number one thing that I'm really kind of talking about here is not attaching to the outcome of things. And I understand there are a lot of people here that are like, I'm dating to marry. And that's a really dangerous mindset to have because I'm here that you have a goal. I'm all about you having a goal, but you might need to change the plan because when you're so outcome driven, when it's so I have to have this person. And if I don't have this person, I'm not safe. Then the nervous system starts to flare up. And then here's where you step in.

But if you're going out and dating going like, what I do with tech guy, we hooked up on the first date. And I left going, I am never going to see this motherfucker again because I didn't want to attach like, oh, okay, well, if he doesn't contact me, then there's something wrong with me. and oh my God, I gave it up too quick. So every date that I had, I left going, that was really fun. But he also doesn't know me anything. Like, this doesn't have to pan out to be the love of my life because maybe I could also learn something from here.

You know what I mean? And like along the way, and I think a lot of people are struggling on how do I date and form a connection with somebody, but also know that I'll be okay if it doesn't work out. That, to me, is what we're trying to teach people on how to date with detachment. right so you're saying detach from the outcome however what i think most people hear or think is

detached emotionally totally and i think that's where it's all going wrong and they're trying to detach emotionally which for some people is just impossible now which is actually not a bad thing it's a good thing but for others it's very possible if you lean a little more avoidant detaching emotionally is very possible but then a relationship is not is not possible totally then that becomes impossible because you're cutting off connection. And I think you're absolutely right. What we're trying to get at is we want to understand how do we be present in the process? How do we remain open without getting overly attached? Our trauma responses are protective mechanisms taking over and us clinging to something that might not be for us. Totally. Because I think the biggest key when we're

talking about dating with detachment is like, we don't want you to lose yourself, right? You know, it's like we don't want you to lose your essence and who you all. and the amazing person that you are and what you bring and the connections that you can build with people because there's also another thing here of like I think a lot of people get scared to connect with somebody and then be like, oh, but what if it doesn't work out? And it's because it's like, I understand that maybe in early childhood when you connected with people and they left you, it felt so severe and it felt so enthralling because as a child you can't really comprehend that not everybody's in your life forever. But as an adult, I've even had this with friendships. I'm not even

just saying relationships where when I've had to release control to that outcome and be like, okay, you know what? I thought that this person could have been my friend, but maybe they're just not meant to be in my life forever. And that's okay. That doesn't discredit the connection we have. It doesn't discredit the time we have together. That just means that they're not meant to live a forever part. But I'd love to know from the nervous system perspective, you know, I think it really does equate to that safety. But I'd love to hear your thoughts of like, if we're trying to form relationships with people that are still of authenticity and connection and really but detaching from the outcome. How can we support our nervous system through that? Yeah, that's a really great question.

I think the first thing to think about, especially if you can understand the basics of the nervous system a little bit, which I know your people absolutely do, right, is that if we want connection, we need to be in a regulated state, in a ventral vagal state. It's only in that regulated state. The connection with other people is actually possible. Because when you're in a survival state, you're in a state of protection. So either we're moving towards connection or towards protection. If we're moving towards the protection side, we're moving away from connection, right? So when you're finding yourself being overly controlling, finding yourself attaching to the outcome, it's actually a sign that you're dysregulated, that your nervous system doesn't feel safe. And so when we start getting

a little more regulated, that's where dating with detainting. in the way that we just explained becomes possible. And what that looks like is remaining open, remaining connected, but not just connected to the person in front of you, connected to yourself and your needs and your desires. And being in that present moment, because it's only in that present moment that you could start to understand, is there something here or isn't there? Which is what people are trying to understand, but they're not recognizing that controlling, that this regulation is completely getting in the way of that. And so when we're finding ourselves attaching, or another way of saying that, when we're finding ourselves controlling, which could

look like two different, looks like many things, but two different things I think we want to call out is one, it could look like controlling behaviors. So trying to micromanage the person, trying to micromanage the relationship, texting, telling them what to do, criticizing, right? That's one way controlling could look. And another way it could look is more of a cognitive process. Maybe you're constantly planning 10 steps ahead or you're creating rigid rules and expectations. Like if this doesn't happen, then it means this, right? You're also trying to control more so internally. But let's like be clear on what control really is.

You're trying to control the external to change the internal. Yep. And you're changing the internal because you don't trust yourself to feel the emotions that might come up if you're not controlling the external. The truth is that's a false sense of control. you can't actually control the relationship. You can't actually control that other person, right? It's a relationship as a process of co-creation. It takes two people, right?

And so that's all to say, that's what happens when you're dysregulated. When we take a moment to realize, oh, this is dysregulation, that's why I'm controlling in these different ways. That's when we could say, okay, what do I need to do to become a little bit more regulated to open myself up to connecting with the person and disconnecting from the outcome. Yeah, and I love that you even asked yesterday. You're like, let's get clear. What are we detaching from?

And it's like, that's a really great start even if we start. I think people write in all the time. I get attached easily. I get attached quickly. I get attached. And it's like, okay. So then exactly, what are we getting attached from? The outcome?

Are we getting attached to the idea of them? Because I know, again, I can speak so personally on this because I was her. I know the thought process of like when you meet somebody amazing and, And I remember trying to control the situation. And it's so funny because shout out to my babes Tyler, one of our just like OG listeners, who I also just adore, he wrote it. And he was like, what is some other behaviors? Like what besides trying to control somebody?

And I think people often overlook the sign of like, oh, you mean the overthinking, the over-amilizing? You're trying to look and look at every single text because you think that if you have the perception of control, and I know it personally, because growing up I had no control. I wasn't allowed to make any, you know, my family. It's like, We weren't allowed to have an opinion. You weren't allowed to say what it is that you want. You weren't allowed to just like speak out in a way that felt comfortable. And so now as an adult,

I have to control every aspect. When are they going to text me? Well, how long is it taking? I would count how long in between the messages? Because in my brain it was, look, see, she has control over the situation. She's in charge. She's determining when at the end of the day, that was just me being so dysregulated, so disconnected from myself and so scared to feel the feelings that came with the fact that this person might not be what I want them to be because that burst the fairy tale bubble for me. That first the, that burst the, look, I'm going to be saved. And then when I had that reality of like, oh my God, no, nobody is, I'm trying to control the situation. And for a lot of people that might not realize that they try to control something as I'm going to text this person.

Because they didn't text me, you're trying to control the outcome here. Because it's a chess piece. And we have to stop gamifying dating if you want to actually have a secure relationship. 100%. It's like, you did that so beautifully connecting it to your past and what happened in your childhood. And like, realistically, it's a fear of uncertainty. Right. And the truth is a relationship, especially in the early stages, but I would say even long term, right, because there's two people with different needs. They're changing. They're growing. It's a, it's quite a bit of uncertainty. And remember, to our nervous system, uncertainty signals danger to all of us. Uncertainty signals

danger because if you were out in the wild and there's uncertainty about. where you're going to get your next meal or uncertainty about where you're going to sleep at night that's going to be safe your nervous system gets activated right you have that like hyper arousal and you're trying to plan okay where am i going to sleep what am i going to do and that's exactly what we're doing in relationship right you're either like trying to think 10 steps ahead to find some kind of safety plan and analyze or you're trying to micromanage the situation through these little actions but at the end of the day that's what's happening it's i don't feel safe because there's uncertainty and we need to learn to have a tolerance for that uncertainty because, you know,

look, uncertainties yes, to the nervous system, your danger. Yeah. But at the same time, uncertainty is also limitless possibility. Yeah. Right? It means anything could happen. Also, like, those really awesome beautiful things that you deeply desire or things that are even beyond your wildest imagination, that's also part of that uncertainty.

And when we start micromanaging and controlling, it's kind of like all those possibilities lapse. And the only ones left are the ones we're imagining, which are usually what, the worst case scenarios. Oh, 100% because those are the illusion of safety. I mean, even what we were talking about before we started recording of like even just with business things of, okay, well, I want to let go of one aspect of my business. And I was like, oh, but wait, but I'm scared. And you made a great point. You're like, okay, letting go, like in dating, letting go of somebody doesn't guarantee that the next opportunity is waiting outside the door ready to come in, but you're giving it the space in order to. And I realize, I think that's the one shift I had, my favorite mental shift I ever made. And this

came just one day, you know, like it wasn't this aha moment or this come to Jesus moment. I just one day realized, wait a minute, I'm so scared about all of these negative things that could happen that happen. I'm so scared that the other shoe's going to drop. I'm so scared. I'm so scared. I'm so scared and it's driven by fear. And I was like, but wait a minute, let me try one thing at any second of any point of any day. I could get that email that changes my life. I could meet that person. I think about when tech guy, that one time, the one moment I said, accept this match and not exed out of it, those little beats that in those moments, you and I have talked about this of, oh yeah, we'll look back on this one day and laugh when we're, you know, 10 steps ahead. They don't feel monumental in the moment.

It's not like we look back at these like, you know, the movies where they're, having this thing of like you're putting the fucking flag on the moon going, this is going to leave a mark. But sometimes just being able to shift the mindset to let your body know, I'm safe no matter what. I am safe because I have me and I can only control me. So that means inherently I'll be safe if I can only be in control of myself, manage my emotions and things like that. But if I could just get excited every day that at any point something could happen, then I think that's to your point that surrender allows magic to happen, allows the other person who also step for you so that you're not the only one taking up space. You said that so beautifully.

Thanks, man. 100%. You said that so beautifully on what it's making me think. It's like, okay, I was calling it uncertainty, right? And it is. It's a fear of uncertainty to your nervous system. But uncertainty is just the unknown. Yeah. And I think what you're saying is in the unknown, there's all these beautiful possibilities and you don't know what's really coming. You just need to be open to it. And I think the difference between seeing the unknown as dangerous and seeing the unknown as beautiful and expansive and full of possibility is your nervous system. Yeah. When you're dysregulated, you see that uncertainty and that unknown as danger and the controlling and all of those protective mechanisms come in. When you're in a more regulated state,

you look at the unknown and you're like, wow, something beautiful could happen. Yeah, something bad could happen, of course, but also equally as likely, realistically, something really beautiful could happen. And I think what separates us being in that state of dysregulation when it comes to uncertainty and being in a more regulated state is actually self-trust. Self-trust is the pinnacle of so much, I find at least, in all the work that we do, because I find that if you don't trust yourself, you're not able to trust other people. Like, I'm sorry. I had made that one video that went viral at one point of like if a red flag to me is somebody that like if I were to you know when I went on dates if a guy or girl whoever you're dating were to say I don't trust people or I struggle to

trust people I'm like there's too much unprocessed shit here you don't trust yourself you can't trust other people how are we going to build a connection and you the amount of people that were like oh my god well I went to trauma and then it's like exactly you're proving my point you haven't fucking processed this you're living dysregulated your nervous system is always waiting for someone to reaffirm what the fuck you're thinking up. And I would love your thoughts because I know that your nervous system is trying to keep you safe through the behavior and through the thought patterns. But what to do? What do we do in those moments in these things of when you're spiraling or ruminating or you have that? What do we do for our nervous system to support it in those moments

that you feel, especially either with you're with people or alone, what can people do? Yeah. I think first and foremost, I think most people think the first step is regulate. Just regulate. just use a tip, a hack, pull up a TikTok, whatever you use, right? And I would argue that's not the first step. I think the first step is the awareness and the recognition of what is actually happening. So recognizing that, first of all, you're triggered and dysregulated. If you're controlling, micromanaging those behaviors that we just spoke about, the first step is recognizing you're engaging in those behaviors and then bringing to your awareness like, wait a second. These behaviors are a sign that I'm probably disregulated. I'm probably a little bit triggered. There's a

fear coming up. And then to use that to kind of shift that awareness inward a little bit, because when you're controlling, you're focusing on the situation, on the person, right? And now you're shifting that awareness inward and be like, wait, what's coming up for me? What am I really afraid up here? Yeah. What am I afraid might happen if I'm not micromanaging this? If I'm not thinking of every situation, if I'm not controlling them, what am I afraid would happen? And then taking it one step further, it's like, what am I afraid to feel? Yeah. Because you're not, really afraid of what might happen. You're afraid of how you might feel if that thing happened. A hundred percent. Right. And so in doing that, you're now shifting the awareness like, wait,

this is more about trusting me than it is about this person doing what I want or showing up or this outcome. Yeah. Right. This is about me. This is about the process, not about the outcome. And I think an example that we were talking about yesterday of like, okay, what's an example of trying to control the outcome here is like, oh, I don't know, maybe the texting stuff of, you know, I've had a client and she said, well, if I don't reach out to him, he's going to forget about me. And I was like, okay, you and I know hearing that, the minute I heard that, I was like, so this is nothing to do with him. This is absolutely nothing to do with him. But if that's that fear that's driving you and then you try to control the situation by saying, okay, well, then I'm going to

text him or then I'm going to say this or then I'm going to do this or the opposite. I'm going to post on Instagram. I'm going to post a thirst trap or I'm going to post a quote that's going get them to do something, you're trying to control somebody else. That's equally as unhealthy as all the clickbait that we see on the internet of, do this to get this. Say this to get the guy. Act like this to get the guy. Because you're assuming that you can control someone else by your own behavior.

And here's a spoiler alert. If that were the case, all of you guys would be completely different right now. If all I had to do was speak and I could change people by just saying something, well, then I'd be a billionaire. But instead, what we're seeing is, okay, that fear then leads to fear abandonment. Then, oh, you feel like you're going to be abandoned. Oh, okay, now you're scared. Okay, then let's unpack.

What's under that? Ah, the feeling. Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa, whether it's Verde, Roja, or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette. with a flame thrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea, and milk. Habaniero?

More like habanier, yes. Save the everyday with Amazon. It's like, are you afraid of, you know, him not texting you back? Or are you afraid of the feeling of when he doesn't text you back? Exactly. And if it's the feeling,

that's something for you to look at of what is that feeling I'm afraid of? That's where you're not trusting yourself. And that's where you need to turn, towards yourself and be like, what is that within me? What is that emotion? And maybe even thinking about in terms of sensation, what am I afraid will happen? Right? Because again, we've spoken about this. Emotions are really sensations. Yeah. Right. When we're afraid of feeling an emotion, we're afraid of feeling really sensations in our body. And so when we start to shift inward and being like,

okay, what am I really afraid of here? What am I afraid to feel? And what if I allow myself to feel a little bit of that in my body, right? That makes that situation so much less scary. Because if it were to happen, you're like, okay, I'll be okay. And you know the good news about that? If it were to happen, this person is giving you the information you need to decide, is this a potential relationship, a potential good match for you? And when we're doing all this controlling and micromanaging, like, look, in the short term, sometimes it works. Sometimes you send the text, sometimes you post their strap, like whatever. Sometimes it works. But there's a major problem with that of like, is you don't know if that relationship is working or you're manipulating it to work and how long

can you really manipulate it? And then people are shocked when that relationship falls apart. It's like, well, because it wasn't real to begin with and you didn't give yourself the space to see if it was real. So many people are, is this the right relationship or is it not? How do I know? It's like, you know by being present, by connecting with yourself, by looking at your fears, coming back into your body, regulating and then allowing that relationship to unfold. And as it unfolds, noticing what it brings up for you, taking a moment, taking a moment, moment to regulate and then asking, does this work for me? Do this feel good to me? Is this supporting me? Is this aligned for me? And you'll be getting the answers. But when people are micromanaging,

they're not realizing that they are blocking themselves from getting the very answers that they're looking for. 100%. I think I used to be, I remember like I would, my mom actually would start to challenge me like that. I'd be like, yeah, but what if he's an answer? And she'd be like, okay, so what if he doesn't? And that was, that was a practice that I started to implement, like probably last year. Or I would sit with that feeling. and be like, okay, so if he doesn't answer, and I'd cry and I'd let it out. And I'd be like, okay, but I faced it. I'm not scared anymore about what's going to happen if he doesn't.

You know what will happen if he doesn't? I go on with my fucking life. What do you mean? What if people say, but like, what if they don't call me? It's like, so you keep living. Because if your life is contingent to want somebody else's action in your life, that's how codependency happens. That's how we start to realize that you're living for other people.

And if you grew up where that's okay. if you grew up in a household where everything was for other people. You know, like, that was my upbringing. Like, you haven't, you'll meet Heli. But my mom, everything was for everyone else. She even to this day, I can only be happy when my kids are happy. I can only, and it's like, no, you can be happy because you have your own life. And if your children are going through something, you support them through it and you're there for them.

But that doesn't mean that you were not happy. Yeah, 100%. And we have to do that in dating. 100%. And like, you're mentioning something that's important and we'll just mention this in passing, but your emotions are like your responsibility. Your emotions are not created by other people. And I think that's part of what we're talking about here, right?

Like you asked, okay, what do you do if this happens? And I said, okay, step one is this awareness, this turning inward curiosity, awareness, curiosity and compassion. I call that befriending. We've talked about that, right? And then maybe after that you do something to regulate. Maybe you breathe. Maybe you step outside. Hopefully you have a little bit of a toolkit, small things, somatic practices, breast,

whatever those things may be for you, something small. just a couple of minutes to know more than a couple of minutes just to kind of come back into your body, maybe move some energy or maybe just some mindfulness practice is to come physically back into your body. But then from there, it's a matter of feeling your emotions. And in order to feel your emotions, you need to take ownership of them. Right. It's like, I'm feeling this emotion. Not that this person is making me feel that.

I'm feeling that emotion and it's in my body. And this is part of the work that I have to do. And in feeling those emotions, yeah, you know, a little bit of inner child work might come up and your own wounds. and traumas, right? But I would say that's kind of the order for me of the befriending, the curiosity and awareness then of the regulation doing something. Maybe it's regulating as another person, getting support. And then, yeah, it's taking ownership of those feelings and feeling them in your body and processing that. 100%. And I think at the end of the day right now, if you're, I think the one question that we got most often was like, how am I going to date with

detachment, but also build a connection? When do I start to attach to them? And I want to just drive home this point of what we're trying to say. It's not that you, if you are able, I don't want you to attach to anybody. That's kind of my thing. You shouldn't be attaching to somebody. It's like, no, you are your own human being. I don't want to attach to you. I want you to live your life. Like, I'm not attached to my partner. And here's a spoiler alert, even because somebody actually asked that as well, when is it okay to become attached to the outcome? And it's like, never. Because you're married. I'm in a serious relationship. I don't attach that this is going to be my end all because you know what? I learned my lesson when Clem passed away.

I was only, I'm only okay if I have it. I am only okay if I have my dog. And if I would tell my mom, I was like, no, no, no, no, no, I couldn't fathom the day. I couldn't let Mike, she would see me. I would start to like, like a robot can not compute. And she'd be like, okay, it's okay. I would get so dysregulated by the thought of, what do you mean? He's going to die.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That when he died, I went through a complete fucking crisis. I didn't know who I was. I didn't know what the fuck I was doing because I was so attached that I was only going to be okay if I had him in my life. And then now it opened up a world of possibilities to be like, wow, I actually didn't give myself enough credit. I didn't give myself enough credit to know that I'll be okay with or without him and that he is

the best support system I've ever had in my entire life. And nobody will ever top the love and support that he gave me. But that doesn't mean that other people or animals or things can't come in and also support. So I think if you're dating and you're starting to go out there and you're struggling of like, oh, but I don't want to attach to something. somebody too quickly. Good. Stay that mentality, but start to look at, but I want to connect with people. I want to connect because connecting is beautiful. Connecting doesn't mean that just because I connect with somebody at a coffee doesn't mean that they have to be my husband. That just means that,

wow, that's a really nice interaction. I can leave it at that. Yes, absolutely. And I think, you know, we're saying emotional detachment is not good. Right. That's basically what we're saying. Emotional attachment is bad. And then I think people think, well, it's the opposite emotional detachment, emotional attachment. And we're saying, no, it's actually emotional connection. And connection is about being present in the moment. It's not about, okay, but what happens if this and like jumping into the future, which is a sign of dysregulation, right? It's about being regulated, being able to be in the present with what is. Right. Right. And there might be something really beautiful and opening up to that. And there might be some difficult things and being present with that as well. That's a

emotional connection. And in that emotional connection, you're not just connected to them. Emotional, to be emotionally connected to the person. You actually need to be deeply connected to yourself. Me and you as friends could not emotionally connect if I was completely disconnected from you and just completely in your feelings. Who would you be connecting to? You wouldn't know me. Right. Right. And so emotional connection is a connection to yourself and being open to connection with the other person, whatever that may be in that moment. Yeah. And I know what? I'll give you an example. when tech, what's his name again? When tech, and he actually the other day, he was like, I think you can say it.

And I was like, not yet. When tech guy and I first started dating, I'll never forget. He was like, I remember where he was like, I want you to be my girlfriend. And I feel so connected to you. And I remember just looking at him. And I was like, of course you feel connected to me. I was like, I fucking share everything. I tell you everything.

I was like, of course you fucking feel connected to me. I'm an open book. I was like, you don't share things with me. And that was his avoidance was that fear. He was trying so hard to control not getting. hurt and not opening up that he was so scared that he then he realized he was like, I was shooting myself in the foot. I was trying so hard to control that I wasn't going to get hurt, that I was going to keep

you kind of arm's length. He was like, but then at the end of the day, what I ended up doing was I pushed you away. And I didn't allow. And it's the same with the anxious person. When you try so hard to connect with somebody off the bat of like, I have to show them how amazing I am and I have to do all this and starting to get out of your own power and start to chase somebody else. you start to do that, what ends up happening is you're not connecting with this person.

You're surviving. You're just trying to hold on to them because you're so fucking scared about any other alternative. But if we actually go back to security, if we're, yeah, that's the goal, right? We all want to be secure in our relationships. Then somebody in a secure relationship also knows that people can come and go. That's part of security is that it doesn't have anything to do with who I am as a person and that I can't control. Like, if you want to try to control getting hurt and dating, then stop fucking dating.

100%. Stop fucking dating. Like, let's just, let's just call this out. Don't be in a relationship. Don't do it. Then you know what? You're right. Sequester alone. Don't ever leave that. You know what? You're going to deal with your own pains. You're going to deal with your own hurts. You're going to deal with your own shit. But if you are so scared of being hurt, what is Masha been saying this whole fucking time? You're scared of what? The feeling of being hurt. There's more to life than finding the perfect car. But finding the perfect car can help you get the most out of life. like the SUV that handles everything from drop off to off road

and the car that hulls groceries and hockey teams or the van that's gone from just practical to practically family. Whatever you want, wherever you're going. Start your search at ototrater.ca. Canada's car marketplace. 100%. And you're so right, you don't date. Because dating relationships, major risk, major uncertainty.

You have no idea. what's going to happen on the other side. You have no idea how you're going to grow and change. If you're wanting this to be a long-term relationship, you think the uncertainty ends after the dating. Oh my gosh. I hate to break this to you, but I think the uncertainty in many ways increases because you continue to grow and evolve as human beings over and over and over again. And there's much more to risk, you know, because you've built up more. And so that uncertainty never ends. That's the price. That's the price we pay. You want something so beautiful. But if you're not willing to pay that price and risk it. This isn't for you. And I think this is where this concept of surrender comes up a lot and what

people misunderstand about it. Right. Like we hear surrender in spiritual communities. We hear surrender in relationship. And that's really what surrender is. It's really your nervous system being regulated enough to be present in the moment, connected to yourself, open to connecting and receiving from the other person, while holding the reality that there is potential uncertainty in the future. And that does not take away from this. That shouldn't stop you from being present in this moment. Now you will get dysregulated. That's completely normal.

But that's the work, continuing to be present and regulated and open so that you can keep connecting and co-creating that relationship. Because there is no co-creation if you're either abandoning yourself to be something they want or self-protecting, right? Like anxious versus avoidant. There can't be connection in either of those. You're not connecting to yourself. You're not allowing the other person to connect to you.

Yeah, 100%. And like, I never, you know, when I was in my idea, dating world. Like, I was never scared of like showing emotions or being vulnerable with people. Like, I found it to be for me a superpower I had of like, I can connect with people. I'll never forget. Oh my God. This guy was dating over COVID, the great example of like this guy and he was a babe. Like, I don't try to fucking hide this. He was hot. And great personality. Just one of those guys that like, you could just talk for hours and he was, we would just have the best sex. We were just having the best fucking time. And I felt so connected to him. And I remember. And I remember.

remember like maybe after like a month or two of us dating, you know, like hanging out and, you know, never talking about what we are. And I was trying to control the situation. I would, when he wouldn't contact me, I would say something or I would post on Instagram doing something that I knew he would respond to or I lied to him. I lied straight up. I told him that I had a credit to this, say something on Airbnb because I wanted us to go away and spend time together. I didn't have a credit. I paid for it at a pocket. I just didn't want him to know that I was paying for it. And that's why we were going away. And I did all of this. I was trying. I was talking about being the cool girl.

I was trying to control every aspect of this. Don't be too much. Don't be too needy. Be really fucking cool. I remember I gifted him a set of software. Don't forget to buy your software. I gifted him a set and he loved it. And then we went away.

And I remember when he came back and we were talking and I was like, man, I just feel so connected to you. And we had met friends. Like this was, we were dating, but this was my boo-boo. I didn't talk about anything. I never brought it up. I figured just don't say anything. And he looked at me and he goes, oh. it's not you. I just, I can connect with people. It's just a gift I have. And I'm sorry if you felt that this was like a personal connection to you, but no, I just, I can connect with a lot of people. And I remember just leaving feeling so embarrassed because I was like, it's not me. But now I understand what he was saying. Like, I get it. I wanted to villainize him at the time. But I was like, he was honest with me. He was very upfront. He had been saying from the beginning that he like wasn't sure and he was uncertain and he wasn't dating and he was trying to, he

was trying to not date. I didn't want to hear it. I wanted to prove and I wanted to control the outcome and I wanted it. And I remember being gutted and being so devastated and it's like, so I was so scared of the inevitable happening and the inevitable happened. And not only did it happen, I helped it happen. Yeah. And he connected and we could have this beautiful connection, but he wasn't looking at us that I have to be his wife now. It was, yeah, we shared some amazing times. That's it. It didn't go any further. And me trying to control everything and try and do this and be the perfect girl and be the good girl, it didn't fucking work because this person didn't feel that same feeling that I had. Right. Wow, that's such a great example of like so many things, right? In one hand

of like, connection is a superpower. You can get really good at it and connect with many different people. And that's not a bad thing. Like, it is a skill. And especially if you're a person who's regulated and connected to themselves, like connection is beautiful. Yeah. And clearly this guy was really great at it. And that's not anything bad about him, but you're recognizing you're, were controlling and micromanaging and not allowing yourself to see what was right in front of you. Had you not done that, you would have gotten that answer pretty early on. And it wasn't that he was a bad guy, just that it wasn't working for you. But you weren't in the present moment to see that. You were constantly five steps ahead in the future because you're dysregulated. And by the way,

that also means he wasn't really getting to know you either. If we're being honest, he wasn't really getting to know you. And when I think back now, I'm like, you got you got, you were getting to the version of, he was getting to know the version of who I wanted him to get to know. And that's also the thing for all these people of like, I'm just so shocked. Like I don't understand who how did this person happen? It's like, oh, what? You don't think people are putting on acts? You don't think people are putting on their best behavior. You don't. Shocker, you think that like the Kardashians are like they are on TV all the time. People put a persona on and that's part of dating. Again, you can't try to control the outcome all the time. Sometimes we have to leave a date. I've called my mom

before after a date going, oh, too good. About enough, it was too good. It was too good. And my mom's like, come back to Earth. Okay, you enjoyed the date. Can you not just leave it at that? And it would took a lot for me to practice the, can I not just enjoy that?

Can I not just enjoy that this was fun? If it doesn't happen again, that's okay. You know what that taught me? I can connect with somebody. Yeah, absolutely. But you could only see that once you get regulated enough, right? Because you get out of that date, it felt good. Now the scarcity mindset, the dysregulation takes over.

There's the fear of uncertainty. What's going to happen? I want more of this. And when you get a little bit more regulated and come back to yourself and, yes, feel those feelings of there is uncertainty. I might not get what I want. Right. Those are all very uncomfortable feelings. Let's not, let's be honest about that.

But once you can do that and like, okay, I could handle this, then you could look at the situation and be like, wow, I just had a really beautiful experience with another human being where in that moment I felt deeply connected. And if nothing happens in the future, that actually does not in any way take away. from the beautiful moment that we shared. And if something bad happens in the future, it still doesn't take away from that beautiful moment that you shared if you're able to be in the present, which means, again, just want to keep repeating this, being present in your own body,

connected to your emotions, your needs, and being open to receiving what the other person has to offer and is sharing with you. Totally. Because I can think you can date with intention while not attach into the outcome. You can have, like I said, I love having a goal. Okay, well, I don't want to date somebody casually. I'm not interested in just like hooking up with somebody.

That's cool. That doesn't mean though that just because like I get this all the time of like, oh, he bait and switched. And I'm like, what happened? Well, he told me he wanted a relationship. And then a month and a half later, he said he didn't with me. And it's like, no, that's getting to know somebody. That's dating. There are no guarantees that you and your husband are going to be together forever.

There's no guarantees that guy and I will get married. There's no guarantees about anything. But I don't allow that. Right. What guarantee do you have in a friendship? Right. And we've normal. that aspect of like, I really want that job. You didn't get it. And you're like, that's okay. But then you get something six

months later and you're like, now I see why I didn't get that job. So if we could just have that openness to, yes, I get it. It's scary. I understand that when you're a woman and you're like, man, I really want a baby. You know, I want to have things that are certain biological aspects that we can't overlook. But you can't control the fact that somebody else has to also make that decision with you. Yeah. And you're absolutely right, especially like as a woman, right? Like, it makes so much sense that puts so much pressure and that causes dysregulation. Right. That's what it does. It creates a lot of pressure and causes dysregulation and everything you said is still completely true. And, you know, before you were saying about like, you can date with detachment and intention. And I actually think there's no other way.

I don't think you can be an intentional dater if you're not dating with detachment and vice versa. I don't think you could date with detachment in the way that we explains from the outcome, not the emotions. Yeah. Right. Without intention. Yeah. I think because, again, if you're dating in a way that you're detaching from the outcome,

meaning you're present with yourself in the moment emotionally connected, you'd be connected to your needs and desires, aka your intentions. Correct. If you are not connected to your intentions, then you're not being, you know, true to yourself. You're not being present in that moment. And just because you go on a date and say, well, I don't want to really, a relationship, I don't want casual. That doesn't make you an intentional date or that could, there are a fuck ton of people that say that and then they'll end up in a situation ship or wasting

their time or with that because it's like, here's a difference. You can say something, but holding that boundary is a very different experience because when that, because when you say that to somebody and you're dating with intention and you say, listen, I, you know, I want that. And they say, that's cool. I'm not interested in that. That's your cue to go, oh, all right, well, then this isn't aligning. I'm glad I didn't attach the outcome with this person because if I had, I wouldn't accept that answer, right? I'd look at that as, no, no, no, I have to change this, or I have to get them, or I have to make them understand. And it's the same thing of just because someone says that they, just because somebody says that they want a relationship, my mama has

been saying this, don't mean that they want one with you. Doesn't mean that they want with you in the way that you want a relationship. There's a difference between words and action. I mean, for yourself, you might be saying you're an intentional data and you only want a relationship, but if you were truly present and regulated in that dynamic, and then the person does or says, something that contradicts that, then you'd be connected enough to yourself to be like, oh, that doesn't feel good. Something is off. And maybe I need to communicate something. Or maybe I need to kind of say like, whoa, this isn't working. There's no reason to continue this, right? But I promise you, there would be a feeling or an emotion or a need coming up that you would recognize had you been regulated and present

in that moment. Totally. And then you'd take action on that. And then we would call that, oh, you're dating, you know, without attachment. You're dating in a way that's detached from the outcome. Yes, you want to get married and you recognize that this isn't aligned, right? Totally. Because it's like, let's say, for instance, your goal is I need to make, I'm a thorough number, 200,000 at my job, I don't know. And you're going out there with the scarcity mindset of I'll take anything. I'll take any job.

And a job comes to you and says, I'll pay you 60K. And you're going, well, that's wildly off what I want. We both know that you getting into that just to say, well, okay, but look, but I'm see, I have a job. You're still going to be unfulfilled. You're going to have resentment. Your needs aren't going to be met. You're always going to be wanting more.

You're always going to be needing more because you know where your baseline is versus all of those jobs that come in lowballing you. Fuck you. I know my worth. No, I'm not going to accept less than 200K that I need. I can compromise at 180. Okay, I can make some sacrifices and compromises and say, okay, fine, I don't need to have my latte every single morning.

I can shave off my $5 a day. But if you're going to go out and all it is is the scarcity mindset of, it has to work out, it has to work out because I have the pressure and I'm a woman and I need to find my person or I just want to be, I don't want to be alone and I'm scared. That is going to drive you to do things that aren't going to be in alignment with you because what are you disconnected from what it is that you genuinely want and what it is that you need. 100%. And I think early on this conversation, you said something really great that I just want to like point out.

You said, you know, dating with detachment doesn't mean not having goals. Yeah. Right. And I would say like 100% it doesn't mean that because like even think about like, you know, in my program I talk about achieving goals like any area and like goals. like goals sometimes more tangible, like a business. Yeah. Right.

And here's the thing. We, of course, set goals. Goals are incredibly important. They're kind of a compass. They're guiding you in a direction. So in a relationship, you know, when you're dating, it might be a relationship, marriage, whatever that is, right? But once you set the goal, it's kind of a compass.

You almost let go of it. And from there, you just focus on the process. You let go of the outcome and you focus on the process, meaning you focus on being present and putting one foot in front of the process. the other every single day. Your goal is already set the direction. You're already moving in the right direction. Now you need to completely let go of the outcome and just take it one step at a time. And that's exactly what we're trying to say about this idea of like dating with detachment. We want you to be intentional. We want you to have a goal. That's your compass. That's your North Star.

Once you've decided that and set that internally, now it's a matter of focusing on the process of living in alignment with that every moment, which requires being present and connected to yourself, which requires noticing when you get triggered and becoming aware of that, taking a moment to regulate and coming back to that north starts. Like, okay, what does it look like to be intentional in this moment? Yeah. Because at the end of the day, freaking out and sitting here hyper-focusing and hyper-ventilating, and I know I've done it before. And like, I was even just thinking my client that I was working with yesterday, fucking losing her marbles at this one situation. And then it all went away. And it's like, was that worth eight hours of stress on your body? Was that worth all of this? Because

here's the thing at the end of the day we are in control of our mind i don't want to hear this bullshit of like i can't stop it it's like well you're that's a conscious choice that you're making to allow those thoughts to be the centerfold so if we now is now knowing that so then that means i have i can i can go on and on a first day and say well it's good before this person i'll be good after a first date is just to assess if i even want to see this person again it's not to assess this is my ride or die this is the love of my life i'm going to marry this person and i'm fucking so help me god you know, with all these fucking TikTok bullshit that people are saying, you know and you know, and it's immediate.

And then if you are leaving, if it's not a fuck yes, it's a no, it's like, you know what? Maybe we can all come back down to earth and down to like what it actually feels like to date. That might, all of that might not happen. You might leave and all it might be is, that was fun. I had a good time or, yeah, maybe I'll see this person again. It might not be anything crazy. That's okay.

Intimacy is built over time. It doesn't mean that just because you leave one date all of a sudden. You're like, this is my husband. But that's it. absolutely absolutely and that is surrender that's what you're describing you know again like a word that gets thrown around that people tend to misinterpret misunderstand right we're just saying surrender is being present with what is yeah getting regulated when you're dysregulated right like i do believe that you have control over yourself and you know i look at it through the lens the nervous

system that you could change your thoughts when you change your state you can't just change your thoughts but you could change your nervous system state right you could create a sense of safety unless you're a physically dangerous situation. There are times when you can't get regulated and you don't need to, but we're not talking about those right now. We're talking about texting, like times when you're actually safe. Right. And so you could change that.

And then that will allow you to surrender in the ways that I think, you know, these TikToks are often implying, but not fully articulating or explaining. Yeah. Yeah. Another fucking awesome episode. Another meaty, juicy episode of some tools, some tips and hopefully some clarity around the situation. Masha, what's going on with you? Anything that you want to call out for folks to be able to join? What's going on with the program?

Yeah, we actually have another round of the program, another cohort starting on November 1st. I am super excited. That's coming incredibly close. Right up. Right. So we just have just a couple of spots left. And yes, so that's happening. There's going to be another cohort in the new year. But this is the last one for this year. And I'm super excited for her for a new wonderful group of people to join. Sweet. Yeah. And everything will be in the link in bio. So if you want to join the program. you can join that. Don't forget if you guys are in LA to come out to the event November 9th, by the time this episode air is in the future, this event will be of a thing of the past. So, but thank you guys. And as always, Masha will be linked in the show notes. And if you need anything from myself or her, you can always find our links there. And thank you again for another looking awesome episode. Thank you so much for having me. I so enjoy this. I can't even tell you. Until next time.